Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm Stacy Murray Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Yes, I know it's Saturday, but we're here
Speaker 1: to offer you our listeners a special audio only version
Speaker 1: of a new weekly video series called Crypto I r L.
Speaker 1: That's I r L Like in Real Life, and it's
Speaker 1: hosted by friends of the show, Katie Greifeld and Tim Stenovic.
Speaker 1: This is episode six. If you want the full video experience,
Speaker 1: head over to Bloomberg dot com, slash qt or check
Speaker 1: it out on YouTube. Tim, where are we? Obviously we
Speaker 1: are in an art gallery or I don't know, a museum.
Speaker 1: That obvious. It's obvious to me. Okay, fine, why are
Speaker 1: we here? Well? Really, it's just some sort of convoluted metaphor,
Speaker 1: or at least device to give a little bit of
Speaker 1: that extra to the top of our show. This one
Speaker 1: is particularly tortured. How dare you do you remember? I
Speaker 1: do well? They were supposed to transform the stodgy world
Speaker 1: of museums and art galleries into something perfit for the metaverse.
Speaker 1: What do you think is this it? Yeah? What do
Speaker 1: you think? I don't like her. Okay. Just a few
Speaker 1: months ago, n f t s were all the rage.
Speaker 1: Barris Hilton went on Jimmy Fallon to explain what they were,
Speaker 1: only to return a few months later to have Fallon
Speaker 1: show off his very own board eight, something he reportedly
Speaker 1: spent more than two grand on. People were talking about
Speaker 1: n f t s not just as exclusive and expensive collectibles,
Speaker 1: but also as a way to transform the creative world.
Speaker 1: If we put art on a blockchain, we'd see a
Speaker 1: fundamental shift in power from the middleman to the creative.
Speaker 1: Instead of a gallery making all the money, an artist
Speaker 1: would get a cut each time their piece was sold.
Speaker 1: It would be easier for musicians to retain creative control.
Speaker 1: But interest in n f t s has fallen off
Speaker 1: a cliff. Trading volumes for n f t s, which
Speaker 1: are basically just digital art and collectibles that are recorded
Speaker 1: on blockchains, has tumbled from a record high in January.
Speaker 1: As the hype around n f T s has died down,
Speaker 1: companies are now trying to find a use for them.
Speaker 1: Nike bought an n f T studio, Starbucks is an
Speaker 1: n f T rewards program, and luxury players such as
Speaker 1: Gucci and Tiffany have launched n f T S. So
Speaker 1: what's the path forward for n f T s. Will
Speaker 1: we find a good use for the underlying technology, or
Speaker 1: as some critics say, our n f T is worthless
Speaker 1: and just the stuff of hucksters trying to pray on
Speaker 1: the unsophisticated. How would you explain what you do to
Speaker 1: a five year old? What I do now is I
Speaker 1: run the consumer business at a company who does security
Speaker 1: for digital assets. And if I was talking to a
Speaker 1: five year old, I'd probably say there is digital stuff.
Speaker 1: It would be much easier if it was a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old, because you would say, do you know if
Speaker 1: you ever ever bought a skin in a game? And
Speaker 1: they would say yes, and I'd say, okay, well we
Speaker 1: make sure nobody can steal those things from you. Let's
Speaker 1: bump it up to a ten year old, still prepubescent.
Speaker 1: Your title is chief experience officer? What is chief experience
Speaker 1: officer me? And when we're talking about the digital world, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the very early stages of this
Speaker 1: transition to a world that actually has digital stuff, digital belongings,
Speaker 1: scarce digital goods, digital things that you could lose, and
Speaker 1: the user experience is pretty bad, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: there's you know, it's sort of like the early days
Speaker 1: of the Internet. You didn't say go to my website.
Speaker 1: You said get a computer, get a modem, get an
Speaker 1: I SP get a web browser. Okay, now go to
Speaker 1: my website. You know. Now you just say like, hey, Siri,
Speaker 1: go to a website, and it goes to the website.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a That's what's happened over the last
Speaker 1: twenty five years. The same thing will happen over the
Speaker 1: next twenty five years in the world of digital assets
Speaker 1: and cryptocurrency and digital value. Well, I want to talk
Speaker 1: about some of those digital assets. Um. We're going to
Speaker 1: speak later in this episode with John Rick Start and
Speaker 1: he basically thinks that digital assets are a scam. And
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily just talking crypto here, we're talking from
Speaker 1: the n f T perspective, the idea of h digital
Speaker 1: goods that don't exist in the real world but only
Speaker 1: exist online. UM. Kind of like the equivalent in the
Speaker 1: metaverse or online version of like owning a pet rock,
Speaker 1: buying a pet rock? Did you did you ever have
Speaker 1: a pet rock? I never had a pet rock. I
Speaker 1: think I know my daughter at a Toma Gucci. So
Speaker 1: we could use that as an analogy. Wait, what did
Speaker 1: you say, my daughter at a Toma Gucci. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: could use that. We could use that analogy. Did you
Speaker 1: have a Toma Gucchi? I think it's Tamagotchi. Did you
Speaker 1: have one of those? I had a Tomagotchi for sure.
Speaker 1: Also also had a new pet was big. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like that was the original metaverse and sort
Speaker 1: of your neo pets for the original and f t
Speaker 1: s I mean new Points. I lived and died by those,
Speaker 1: even though they were virtual currencies. Actually don't know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, but the fact is that there are
Speaker 1: there are a lot of critics. You just say, this
Speaker 1: stuff is worthless, it only exists in a digital space,
Speaker 1: and it's it's not real. We're not buying it. What
Speaker 1: do you say to them? I say, honestly, what I
Speaker 1: say is eventually you'll be dead. Because you know a younger,
Speaker 1: younger generations who grew up, you know, through COVID and
Speaker 1: go to school on Zoom and live digital lives and
Speaker 1: spend eight plus hours a day on on their phones,
Speaker 1: and you know that it's not a foreign concept to
Speaker 1: them at all, and also, you know, look, I'm fifty
Speaker 1: years old and I you know, graduated college in nine
Speaker 1: and I remember very well the people who told me
Speaker 1: the Internet is nonsense, the Internet will never work. I'm
Speaker 1: really glad that you brought up the example of the
Speaker 1: internet because I've actually tweeted to this effect before. Like,
Speaker 1: if I think about what I would have tweeted in
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's about the Internet, they would have
Speaker 1: been absolutely terrible. But to that point, I would have
Speaker 1: really said a lot of really stupid things that are
Speaker 1: now stupid in hindsight. But the point remains the Internet.
Speaker 1: I can see a use case, you know, I can
Speaker 1: I have just the entire world of information at my
Speaker 1: fingertips um. You know. For a smartphone, I also see
Speaker 1: the use case. Maybe it costs way too much, but
Speaker 1: it does have a use case. But for n f
Speaker 1: T s, what is the use case? I mean, there
Speaker 1: are tons, So let's like, let's like figure out where
Speaker 1: we want to start. I mean, there are there are
Speaker 1: tons of things you have a lot of Let's just
Speaker 1: go with something very simple. Fifteen years from now, your
Speaker 1: government issued I D will be a digital asset. I mean,
Speaker 1: I find it super ironic that the the technology I
Speaker 1: used to get into parties at n f T n
Speaker 1: y C was technically more secure and better than the
Speaker 1: technology I used to get into the United States from
Speaker 1: France to come you know, to come to America. So
Speaker 1: that's just a very simple one. Now. Look at even
Speaker 1: just like the fact that when you use Apple Pay
Speaker 1: to pay at the local um vegetable shop, which you
Speaker 1: know in my neighborhood in Paris, they didn't want to
Speaker 1: do three years ago, right. It took COVID to get
Speaker 1: them to actually want to take digital money. But why
Speaker 1: is Visa International involved in that transaction? Right? And my
Speaker 1: and my am I taking it on credit. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do a cash digital cash settlement right um.
Speaker 1: And that's actually technically possible but not yet happening. So
Speaker 1: these are just the most basic of things. You know.
Speaker 1: I just spent five years working with lvmh um, you know,
Speaker 1: Louis Butan Moah Hennessy, big luxury conglomerate. You know, the
Speaker 1: people who are in the luxury business have spent the
Speaker 1: last how however many years, you know, trying to explain
Speaker 1: to people why you have a three thousand dollar handbag,
Speaker 1: Why do you have a three thousand dollar handbag. Why
Speaker 1: do you wear a T shirt? Says Thrasher. Why do
Speaker 1: you wear a T shirt? Says Slayer? Why do you
Speaker 1: do so many? Why do you have a MySpace page?
Speaker 1: Once upon a time? Right to be an individual like
Speaker 1: this is just you know, basic human um you know,
Speaker 1: uh kind of behavior. Let's look at another example I
Speaker 1: love to use is just the example of digital art.
Speaker 1: I mean, we agree that there's an art market, right,
Speaker 1: we agree that a boscyott is not worth what it's
Speaker 1: worth because of the wood and the paint. Right, It's
Speaker 1: it's a cultural artifact, right, A piece of art is
Speaker 1: a is a cultural artifact. And you know the reality
Speaker 1: is that there are any great um digital artists out there.
Speaker 1: And when two people have a value exchange around creativity,
Speaker 1: I would say that's a more beautiful digital business than
Speaker 1: say an advertising business where you steal someone's attention and
Speaker 1: sell it to someone else. Can I just make one
Speaker 1: point really quickly? As you were talking about my Space,
Speaker 1: it occurred to me I actually spent money for Neo
Speaker 1: Pet's premium account just so that I could unlock certain
Speaker 1: things and certain features to put on my Neo Pet Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you're seeing the evolution of my thinking in real time. So,
Speaker 1: speaking of art and cultural artifacts, I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: it up, because I have some fine art right here.
Speaker 1: This is the Mona Lisa. What is that? Is that you?
Speaker 1: This is yeah? This is me, this is the Mona
Speaker 1: This is me as the Mona Lisa. That's awful. I
Speaker 1: don't like this, Katie didn't know. I don't have a
Speaker 1: better reaction than that. That is just fell did you
Speaker 1: bring this because I live in Paris, But I mean
Speaker 1: you've probably seen the real thing at the loop. But
Speaker 1: it actually it's quite small. It raises it's probably it's
Speaker 1: like about this. It raises an important question though, I mean,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that if I have a print out like this,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that it's not the original. Um from an
Speaker 1: n f T perspective, like if you have a replica
Speaker 1: of an n f T or if you have like
Speaker 1: a replication and the Mona Lisa is a great example.
Speaker 1: I mean, um, you know, I have been to see
Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa to love more than once. Every time
Speaker 1: I've gone. The room is full of people who want
Speaker 1: to see the Mona Lisa and take pictures of it
Speaker 1: right now, You go outside two feet and there's a
Speaker 1: thousand Mona lisas. There's Mona Lisa is on t shirts.
Speaker 1: You want to buy another one? My favorite is the
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa. There's dabbing right. Um, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: popular one these days. Um, But it doesn't really seem
Speaker 1: to prevent people from wanting to see the real thing,
Speaker 1: right because there is actually only one. And let's be honest, like,
Speaker 1: human beings are story consuming creatures, right, It's not the
Speaker 1: Mona Lisa. It's it's the fact that the Mona Lisa
Speaker 1: has notoriety. Mona Lisa has notoriety for particular reasons, and
Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa has become the Mona Lisa and the
Speaker 1: subject of a slick Rick song and the subject of like,
Speaker 1: you know, heist movies or whatever she's smiling at. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's storytelling. This is all storytelling. We are
Speaker 1: story consuming creatures. That's part of the reason I love
Speaker 1: this space is because it makes you ask those original
Speaker 1: questions of like what is value? What is money? What
Speaker 1: do we care about? As people? Um? Look, I find
Speaker 1: this stuff quite easy, frankly, because I grew up collecting
Speaker 1: records I grew up um collecting fanzines and skateboarding and
Speaker 1: being a part of these You know. Again, you you
Speaker 1: wear a T shirt that when you wear it to
Speaker 1: the mall, you know, if there's another skateboarder, they come
Speaker 1: up to you. Right, that was what it was like
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Um, So to me, these things make
Speaker 1: a ton of sense, you know. And what I say
Speaker 1: to my colleagues at LVMH is who you know, had
Speaker 1: this similar conversation with often. You know, you're you want
Speaker 1: to tell me that if I kill a cow and
Speaker 1: I colored the skin and I cut it into pieces
Speaker 1: and I stitched it together into a bag, go, that's craft.
Speaker 1: But when Matt Caine makes an extraordinarily complex, beautiful artistic product,
Speaker 1: our project called Gazers, Oh that's not craft. Why because
Speaker 1: it's digital? Oh come on, I honestly, I like, I'm
Speaker 1: offended that you would even that, that someone would even
Speaker 1: say that, because it's an individual. It's an artist who
Speaker 1: has a craft. Now, again, whether you like a Louis
Speaker 1: Baton handbag or not, you don't need to. Lots of
Speaker 1: people don't. Whether you like Matt Caine's Gazers or not,
Speaker 1: that's up to you, but don't deny that people do
Speaker 1: write Ian Rodgers. We're gonna have to leave it there.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thanks for having me this special
Speaker 1: audio only episode of Crypto I r L. Will be
Speaker 1: right back with more from Katie Greifeld and Tim Stanovic.
Speaker 1: If you want the full video experience, head to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com slash qt. We're talking to n f t
Speaker 1: s and we're talking about their use cases when it
Speaker 1: comes to arts, So we should probably talk to an
Speaker 1: artist people. Pleaser is what she goes by, but also
Speaker 1: her real name Emily Yang. E'mily, good to see you.
Speaker 1: So what what do you see as the possibilities for
Speaker 1: n f t s when it comes to your work
Speaker 1: and when it comes to your life? Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I really shouldn't be saying this as an artist, but
Speaker 1: it makes sense that n f T started taking off
Speaker 1: because of art because it's visual and humans are visual creatures,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's easier for us to make the
Speaker 1: connection in our brains. But UM, my opinion is that
Speaker 1: n f t s should be way more than art
Speaker 1: and it should actually just be sort of the underlying
Speaker 1: technology that runs infrastructure in society, um, including you know, documentation,
Speaker 1: ticketing and things like that. But to your point that
Speaker 1: there's uses for n f t s beyond art, do
Speaker 1: you think that n f t s are the best
Speaker 1: vehicle for art? Uh? If you don't like physical things,
Speaker 1: then probably I've adopted a much more nomadic lifestyle recently,
Speaker 1: like many others in crypto. And then you actually just
Speaker 1: get into this mindset of not wanting physical things because
Speaker 1: they're a burden when you travel, and a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you know in the real world have too much money
Speaker 1: and don't know where to spend it. Also by art
Speaker 1: and the store and what are those called ports ports? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for tax purposes, right, Yeah, But like that's taking up space.
Speaker 1: Maybe that was just an episode of Billions I saw.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that actually happens. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm all for nowadays, like being able to flex that
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of money on a piece of art,
Speaker 1: but I don't have to I just pull up my phone.
Speaker 1: How do you flex that you spend money on a
Speaker 1: piece of art that doesn't exist in the physical world.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can take a screenshot of the purchase
Speaker 1: and then post it on your Instagram story, but couldn't
Speaker 1: somebody then take a screenshot of your Instagram story and
Speaker 1: post it on their Instagram story and it looks no
Speaker 1: different than Sure, if you own a Ferrari and then
Speaker 1: I went to your house, I can sit in your
Speaker 1: Ferrari and take a photo, and then I can pretend
Speaker 1: that it's mine, and a lot of the f X
Speaker 1: scammers on Instagram do that. Wait, but there is if
Speaker 1: we play this metaphor completely. The difference is that if
Speaker 1: the Ferrari's mine, I can drive it around and it
Speaker 1: can take me places and it drives fast. Well, if
Speaker 1: you knew how to use etheroryum, you'd be able to
Speaker 1: interact with your n f T or transferred to somebody.
Speaker 1: I couldn't transfer that n f T to myself, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know where to go from there. That was
Speaker 1: a good point. So, John, what what is your issue
Speaker 1: with n f T s. What's your problem with them?
Speaker 1: The problem that I have with the fact that you've
Speaker 1: got a some sort of fractionalized hyperlink to a jpeg
Speaker 1: file or the metadata of a jpeg file as a
Speaker 1: representation of some sort of investment. What my problem with
Speaker 1: that is, It's ridiculous, it's absurd. There's nothing to it.
Speaker 1: It's a giant scam. It's a giant Ponzi scheme, turns
Speaker 1: victims into victimizers. It's one of the most absurd things
Speaker 1: that has come up, and it it evolved from you know,
Speaker 1: they had initial coin offerings, but the SEC cracked down
Speaker 1: on those, and then you know, lending products and staff's
Speaker 1: s a f T s, the SEC crackdown on those.
Speaker 1: So it's just an end run around that with more nonsense,
Speaker 1: more crypto nonsense. So it sounds like your problem isn't
Speaker 1: just with n f T, so it goes beyond that,
Speaker 1: deeper than that, it's with sort of the idea of
Speaker 1: the crypto ecosystem in general. Oh. Absolutely. Look, I worked
Speaker 1: at the SEC in the Enforcement Division for almost twenty years.
Speaker 1: I was eleven years chief of the Office of Internet Enforcement.
Speaker 1: I've been teaching law school at George Town and Duke
Speaker 1: for twenty years and this stuff is so obviously a
Speaker 1: scam to me on so many levels. So all of
Speaker 1: this hype and nonsense is just awful, and it's it's really,
Speaker 1: I think, done some awful things to the world. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're not a hoddler God, No, just
Speaker 1: we got that. I mean, we got that out of
Speaker 1: the way. The externalities are so terrible, ransomware attacks. I mean,
Speaker 1: it does have one good use for criminals. John, what
Speaker 1: if it's I get what you're saying. I completely get
Speaker 1: what you're saying, and it actually it does make sense
Speaker 1: to me. But what if you think about it from
Speaker 1: the perspective of a luxury good, and you think about
Speaker 1: it from the perspective of somebody who lives online and
Speaker 1: who does play a lot of games and does believe
Speaker 1: there is going to be a metaverse? You know, why
Speaker 1: not pay for a luxury item in your in your
Speaker 1: own digital world if after all, I mean, look, I'm
Speaker 1: not buying this stuff, but you know there are people
Speaker 1: who pay two or three hundred bucks for a pair
Speaker 1: of foam slip on shoes that probably cost a couple
Speaker 1: of dollars to actually manufacture. Oh my god, you know
Speaker 1: I like, Hey, I'm a sneaker head. You're a sneaker head. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: a huge sneaker head. I just went to sneaker Con
Speaker 1: with my son and bought and sold sneakers. Sneaker head,
Speaker 1: you should love n f T. I'm a sneaker head.
Speaker 1: I'm wearing my my if you can see my brand
Speaker 1: bread's right now, my Jordans ones. So no, of course
Speaker 1: I don't love n f T s because I'm a
Speaker 1: sneaker head. I think they're still so ridiculous. If you
Speaker 1: want to flex with your n f T, you want
Speaker 1: to buy your n f T and put it as
Speaker 1: your your your icon or whatever it is on your
Speaker 1: Twitter account, go ahead, have at it. But the marketplace,
Speaker 1: let's think about the marketplace where n f T s
Speaker 1: are bought and sold, because most people buy them thinking wow,
Speaker 1: this is gonna go up and I'm gonna make a
Speaker 1: lot of money. And most of those people are the
Speaker 1: people who aren't very sophisticated when it comes to investing.
Speaker 1: So let's think about that. Those marketplaces, they're incredibly corrupt,
Speaker 1: match trades, wash trades. The fraud isn't just encouraged, it's taught.
Speaker 1: Turn on YouTube. If you're promoting an n f T
Speaker 1: and you're not using fraud and match trades and wash
Speaker 1: trades and and sock puppets to somehow tout and manipulate
Speaker 1: the price of your n f T, you're committing malpractice
Speaker 1: in that world. So if you want to just buy
Speaker 1: this stupid picture and put it up somewhere. Go ahead,
Speaker 1: and you think that's a flex, go ahead. But but
Speaker 1: if you're buying it as an investment, which most people do,
Speaker 1: it's absurd. And you know that's why the market is tanked.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just just absolutely tank. People have finally
Speaker 1: figured it out, and it will just keep getting worse
Speaker 1: because it's so ludicrous. You know, it's Alice in Wonderland.
Speaker 1: It's it's absolute nonsense that actually I can explain it
Speaker 1: to you this special audio only episode of Crypto I
Speaker 1: r L will be right back with more from Katie
Speaker 1: Greifeld and Tim Stanovic. If you want the full video experience,
Speaker 1: head to Bloomberg dot com slash qt. I do want
Speaker 1: to go down the sneaker head rabbit hole a little
Speaker 1: bit more. Is that in Alice in Wonderland reference. No
Speaker 1: kidding anyway, but I guess what we're The point we're
Speaker 1: trying to make is you're paying a lot of money
Speaker 1: for sneakers, which do have a use case, but you're
Speaker 1: paying a lot more for the status symbol. If I
Speaker 1: have these sneakers, where you could buy a pair of
Speaker 1: sneakers that cost a hundred dollars, but you choose the
Speaker 1: luxury item. And for people who live extremely online, I
Speaker 1: mean maybe it's the same sort of vibe. I think
Speaker 1: that's fine if you want to go buy your Rolex
Speaker 1: or your Louis Vuitton bag or your Jordan's sneakers and
Speaker 1: right around, and then I don't have any problem with that.
Speaker 1: But when you talk about it as an investment, like
Speaker 1: the way n f T s are, and you build
Speaker 1: a marketplace around that, there's several things that happen. Number One,
Speaker 1: a lot of people get ripped off because they have
Speaker 1: no idea what they're buying. They have no idea what
Speaker 1: they're doing. They're just hoping it will go up. Number Two,
Speaker 1: criminals will use those marketplaces as places to launder money
Speaker 1: or move money around uh for different nefarious purposes. So
Speaker 1: you're opening up the world to all these dire externalities
Speaker 1: and at the same time, you're putting a lot of
Speaker 1: people at risk. And that's why the SEC is there,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there's special laws around the way investing.
Speaker 1: The way investing is done to protect people and protect them,
Speaker 1: often from themselves. You may be a libertarian and say, look,
Speaker 1: I don't want those protections I just believe in caveat
Speaker 1: M tour and I just want to live the way
Speaker 1: that I want to live. Well, that's fine, you can
Speaker 1: make that argument to Congress, but right now we have
Speaker 1: these statutes and these rules so that people can't do
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. They can't do an initial coin offering,
Speaker 1: they can't do a lending program, they can't do a SAFT.
Speaker 1: All of these things are unlawful. John, I do want
Speaker 1: to ask you know, you've mentioned a few different times
Speaker 1: that you're a professor. I gotta know what is the
Speaker 1: what are your the perspective of your students? What did
Speaker 1: they say? I assume you guys talk about this, Oh, Katie,
Speaker 1: what a great question. You know. First of all, I
Speaker 1: like to teach my students how ridiculous all this stuff is,
Speaker 1: and they love to challenge me. Okay, but once we
Speaker 1: get into it, I just again, I'm not the smartest
Speaker 1: guy that's ever taught law school. And you know, but
Speaker 1: it's not difficult to combat all this nonsense and ridiculousness
Speaker 1: because there's no there there. And so I do think
Speaker 1: you're right. The younger generation look at me and say, okay,
Speaker 1: boom where you just don't get it and that just
Speaker 1: makes me laugh. And that I put together a website
Speaker 1: called Digital Trustwatch dot com, totally free. Anybody can go there,
Speaker 1: and so I put a lot of the research that
Speaker 1: I've done, which is years and years of research, on
Speaker 1: this website so people can see it and and read
Speaker 1: for themselves. So they can't. They gotta stop telling me, Hey,
Speaker 1: you just don't get it. Well, uh, John, have fun
Speaker 1: being poor. Sorry, That's just how I had to end it.
Speaker 1: That was so fun. That's what they say to you, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: you you hit the nail on ahead, Tim. They tell me,
Speaker 1: how fun being poor? They tell me, I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. I mean on Twitter. Look, I
Speaker 1: don't make a nickel from being a crypto skeptic, not
Speaker 1: one nickel. I don't profit in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: John thinks a lot. This is really great. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time. Absolutely great meeting you both.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I kind of felt like you had
Speaker 1: a moment when you were when you were talking to
Speaker 1: you in like some sort of epiphany. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a moment. When you think about the fact that I
Speaker 1: participated in the digital world for many years. I spent
Speaker 1: more money, more real money than I should have four
Speaker 1: items for that digital world kind of made sense to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, did you have a moment um? You
Speaker 1: hear one guest and they're really convincing. You hear another
Speaker 1: guest and they're really convincing. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say I've had a moment. I'm going to make it
Speaker 1: my mission to find your moment. I want to see
Speaker 1: these episodes of Crypto I r L in video. Check
Speaker 1: them out on Bloomberg Quicktake at Bloomberg dot com, slash qt,
Speaker 1: or find Katie and Tim Over on YouTube. This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio.
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