1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. This episode contains 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: discussions of sensitive topics including violence, hate, crimes, and the 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: use of discriminatory language and slurs. Listener discretion as advised. 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: In the Criminal Justice System. Landmark trials transcend the courtroom 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: that is defined American history. These are their stories. June eighteenth, 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, nine forty five pm, Denver, Colorado. 10 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: It was a warm Monday evening in a quiet Denver neighborhood. 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: The streets were still and porch lights glowed. A black 12 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Volkswagen Beetle pulled into the driveway of a home to 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: beneath the trees. The driver stepped out, arms full of 14 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: groceries and a back of dog food. Radio host Alan 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Berg had just wrapped another night on the air. It 16 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: was a regular end to a routine day. But then 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: as Alan got out of his car, he realized he 18 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: wasn't alone. Three men were waiting in the dark. One 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: emerged from the shadows, stepped forward and opened fire. Thirteen 20 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: rounds rang out before the weapon jammed. This had all 21 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: the markings of a targeted hit. 22 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 3: Then police have confirmed that longtime Caaway radio talk showst 23 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: allen Berg was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver. 24 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: The execution of fifty year old Alan Berg felt anything 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: but random. Detective linked the murder weapon to a white 26 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: supremacist group called the Aryan Nations that's based in Idaho. 27 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 4: Berg, who was Jewish, was an outspoken. 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Critic of racism and anti Semitism, calling himself the man 29 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: you love to hate to receive numerous death threats on 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: his talk show. What seemed like a single act of 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: violence would soon be revealed as the opening move in 32 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: a larger plot to alter the course of the nation. 33 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 5: I got a call, get out to LaGuardia Airport. There's 34 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 5: been a bombing. 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 6: There was a thirty two foot crater in front of 36 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 6: what was left of the building. 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out, am I dead? Am 38 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: I alive? 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 7: Where am I? 40 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm Anethega Nicolazzi. 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 8: That's why terrorism works. 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: It doesn't care who you are. 43 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is lawn order 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: criminal justice system as a result of the fatal bombings 45 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, like the ones at Francis Tavern 46 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: and LaGuardia Airport, terrorism was rising in the public conscious. 47 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: It had shifted from political protests and property damage to 48 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: something deadly, and the threat was growing. 49 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 9: Two new movements were really starting to emerge in the 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 9: United States. These were parallel movements that had a lot 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 9: of synergies. One was the modern white power movement, in 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 9: the others the modern paramilitary militia movement. 53 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: This swing in the pendulum is exactly the kind of 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: thing terrorism researcher Michael Jensen tracts white. 55 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 9: Power, white supremacist organizations, militia of patriot groups, also Christian nationalists. 56 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 9: These were much more violent organizations than their left wing predecessors. 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 9: They believed that they had to do whatever it would 58 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 9: take to achieve their goals, and that meant killing innocent 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 9: people if necessary. 60 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: The roots of domestic extremism weren't planted overnight. They grew 61 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: slowly in the margins and were fertilized by anger. Often 62 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: at the center of these movements were men with the 63 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: shared past US combat veterans just back from Vietnam. 64 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 9: These individuals coming home. They were deeply, deeply upset and 65 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 9: angered over the war in Vietnam itself. They believed that 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 9: the reason the US did not prevail in that war 67 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 9: was because politicians really prevented them from winning the war. 68 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 9: They wouldn't let them do what it was going to 69 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 9: take to win, and therefore they came home as losers, 70 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 9: as subjects of defeat in that battle. They also came 71 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 9: home to a public that wasn't very welcoming. There was 72 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 9: a lot of protests that were targeted specifically at the 73 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 9: veteran community. They really felt persecuted by their fellow citizens 74 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 9: upon their. 75 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: Arrival, and the world they came back to wasn't how 76 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: they had left it. 77 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 9: They felt that while they were away fighting this war, 78 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 9: they were really losing the country that they were fighting 79 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 9: on behalf of from racial justice, the establishment of abortion 80 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 9: rights to beginning influxes of illegal immigration along the southern border, 81 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 9: there were a lot of things changing in the country 82 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 9: that they did not like. 83 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: Quietly, in compounds and training camps, those grievances began to 84 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: take shape. 85 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 9: They began to organize inform groups that really aimed at 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 9: overthrowing the federal government completely, changing a system that had 87 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 9: arisen while they were gone off fighting in Vietnam. These 88 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 9: groups were very, very active in more rural locations throughout 89 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 9: the United States. Idaho in particular was a real hub. 90 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 9: Aryan Nations had their compound there. 91 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: The Aryan Nations was a Neo Nazi group that was 92 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: gaining traction and was founded by a man named Richard Butler. 93 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: And in the summer of nineteen eighty three they caught 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: the attention of a particular FBI agent. 95 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 7: My name is Wayne Mannus. 96 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Wayne is the kind of guy who doesn't take much downtime. 97 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 7: On January the thirty first, nineteen sixty six, I was 98 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 7: sworn into the FBI as a special agent. There was 99 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 7: less than a sixty day period between the time I 100 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 7: left the Marine Corps and entered the FBI. 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: And he was always a man with a plan. 102 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 7: I was in a sociology class and I remember the 103 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 7: professor said, tonight, decide five things you want in life, 104 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 7: and then tomorrow we'll talk about it. Well, my five 105 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 7: things I told him was I wanted to have a 106 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 7: good wife, children, I wanted to be the Marine Corps, 107 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 7: and I wanted to be an FBI agent. And I 108 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 7: wanted someday to own a big ranch. 109 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: Where are you on those five things today? 110 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 7: I got them all? 111 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: Now that's pretty good, right. 112 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's pretty amazing, isn't it. 113 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: What Wayne was taught back in the Marines helped shape him. 114 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 7: The Marine Corps teaches you the importance of others. Your 115 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 7: life depends on the guy next to you that forces you. 116 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 7: When you're going through life, you start looking for the 117 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 7: people that you feel are loyal and honest and worthwhile 118 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 7: for companionship. At the Marine Corps concept never surrender, never 119 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 7: give up, never quit. 120 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Wayne lived the motto and also carried it into his investigations. 121 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 7: There was no end to the day. I would leave 122 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 7: home and think I was coming back maybe late that night. 123 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 7: I didn't come back for two weeks. You couldn't afford 124 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 7: to have any personal life or take any time off. 125 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 7: You had to be married to it, and you had 126 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 7: to travel with it. 127 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: Those all consuming cases had a way of landing on 128 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: his desk, and they matched the way he worked. 129 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 7: Most agents they have one hundred and ten minutes a 130 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 7: day over time. That's compulsory. I seldom stopped at that. 131 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 7: When you hit a case like the order, it was 132 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 7: pretty much necessary for me to put in twelve hour days. 133 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: Little did Wayne know he was about to embark on 134 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: one of the most demanding and dangerous cases of his career. 135 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: It was November nineteen eighty three and an opportunity arrived 136 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: smack dab in the middle of America's heartland. 137 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 7: There was an opening in Cordelaine, Idaho that was a 138 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 7: one man office that was just ideal for me. 139 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: It felt like a dream come true. 140 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 7: I really wanted to end up in Montana or Idaho 141 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 7: because I was an outdoorsman. I was a cowboy from 142 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 7: the time I was a kid, and I thought, well, 143 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 7: when I want to relax a little bit, maybe that 144 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 7: would be a good place for me to go. Didn't 145 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 7: work that way, I'll tell you. 146 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: Despite the idyllic scenery of northern Idaho, relaxation would have 147 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: to wait. On the way to his new post, Wayne 148 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: was given an assignment. 149 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 7: The Special Agent in George had been hearing rumors that 150 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 7: there might be criminal activity connected with this group called 151 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 7: the Area in Nations, which was near that particular office 152 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 7: of Court A Lane, Idaho, to see if I could 153 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 7: determine if that organization was really connected to any significant 154 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 7: criminal activity or of these were just rumors. 155 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: Wayne didn't sit back and wait for a lead to 156 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: land on his desk. He made the first move. 157 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 7: I thought, maybe the best way to get started is 158 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 7: I'll just call the head of the organization, Richard Butler, 159 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 7: and I was asking if he would come down of 160 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 7: the office let's talk. 161 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: I just raised my eyebrows because I was just about 162 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: to ask you, like, how does an office of one 163 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: start to investigate the area nation? But I guess you 164 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: just answered it. You call up ahead of it and 165 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: ask him to come on down. 166 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, I just called them up. I said, I'm 167 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 7: a new agent here. I've been hearing things about your organization. 168 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 7: Some of them don't sound too good. Would you come 169 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 7: down and let's talk. I'd like to learn all about 170 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 7: your organization? And he said yes. 171 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: There were no subpoenas or threats, just a quiet conversation 172 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: across a desk. And what Butler shared was bold, to 173 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: say the. 174 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 7: Least, they found nothing wrong with counterfeiting because the government 175 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 7: counterfeited money. He said, the money that's printed out of 176 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 7: the government has no real value. There's no gold or 177 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 7: silver backing it. It's just an arbitrary amount of money 178 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 7: that's printed. 179 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: But it wasn't just economic theory and anti government sentiment. 180 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: Well Butler laid out was an entire worldview, deeply distorted, 181 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: one that blurred theology and hate into a justification for violence. 182 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 7: He went into what's called the identity concept. This concept 183 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 7: was actually conceived of and printed in eighteen seventy one. 184 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 7: They say that when the lost tribes of Israel were 185 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,479 Speaker 7: traveling over the Caucasus Mountains, they picked up the name Caucasian, 186 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 7: and that the true Israelites spoken of in the Bible, 187 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 7: these people are not really Jews, and that the Caucasian 188 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 7: races represent the tribes of Israel. And when they traveled 189 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 7: over the Caucasus Mountains and they settled into Europe, each 190 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 7: of the European countries was a tribe of Israel. So 191 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 7: they believe there can't be a second coming of Jesus 192 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 7: Christ until the Jews are eliminated from the face of 193 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 7: the earth. 194 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: But it was more than fringe ideology. Central to their 195 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: cause was a belief that Jews and non whites were 196 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: to blame for every ill they claimed to suffer. Wayne 197 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: carefully listened to Butler, gathering intelligence and potentially evidence, and 198 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: in Butler's mind, Wayne wasn't a threat. 199 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 7: He was convinced that I was a potential convert. As 200 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 7: he was leaving, he said, perhaps you'd like to join 201 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 7: us one day we could talk again. I told him myself, 202 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 7: I'm very much interested in talking to you again. I 203 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 7: don't know if he was playing me, or I was 204 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 7: playing him, or we were both playing each other, but 205 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 7: I learned a great deal in that conversation. 206 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: The official assignment was merely to evaluate the Aryan nations 207 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: and determine if they were a group worth pursuing. And 208 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: after that first sit down with Butler, Wayne knew that 209 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: they were, to the point that he decided to make 210 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: them his sole focus. 211 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 7: I just felt like there was more than I was hearing, 212 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 7: and my curio was peaked. 213 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: What he didn't yet know was that he was actually 214 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: watching the early formation of a broader insurgency, and he 215 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: had no teammates to help. 216 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 7: And I'm alone. My family's not with me. I have 217 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 7: no friends and no associates, and I'm living at the 218 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 7: Corterlane Resort Hotel. So what am I going to do? Work? 219 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 7: There's no reason to do anything else, And that's what 220 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 7: I did. I worked, worked every day every night. 221 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: Out of a twelve y fourteen office in rural Idaho, 222 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: Wayne started building what would become a case against one 223 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: of the deadliest domestic terrorist organizations in America, and even 224 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: he didn't know just how far it would go. Luckily 225 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: for Wayne, there was someone already watching the group, Larry Broadbent. 226 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 7: He was the under sheriffs here. Larry was an intelligent, 227 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 7: polite quiet by a big guy, and he had to 228 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 7: taking it on himself before I ever got there to 229 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 7: look into the Area Nations. He had informants. 230 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: Larry had spent years trying to sound the alarm. 231 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 7: So I went over and sit down with Larry, and 232 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 7: when I told him I was going to work this, 233 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 7: he says, I am so thankful that you're here and 234 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 7: that you have an interest that you're going to do something, 235 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 7: and he gave me a wealth of information on people 236 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 7: affiliated with the Area Nations. 237 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: For the first time since arriving at Idaho, Wayne wasn't alone. 238 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 7: Larry had become my one and only trusted source of 239 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 7: information at that particular time. 240 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: Wayne dug into the investigation with a few names in 241 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: a possible location, and without backup, he set off on 242 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: his own. 243 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 7: I pinpointed where the area Nations was located, and it 244 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 7: was isolated in the mountains. After dark, I would drive. 245 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 7: I've emparked the car about a mile from the compound. 246 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 7: I had figured the compass asthmath that would take me 247 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 7: to the compound. So I'd walked the compass asthmath until 248 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 7: I hit the barbed wire, crawled through the wire, and 249 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 7: then through the bushes. I would work my way down 250 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 7: until I could get within visual sight of the compound, 251 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 7: and I'd sit through the night and watch the activity. 252 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: Night after night he gathered information. 253 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 7: I would take license numbers when I could get them. 254 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 7: They had a platform out there, and they had a loudspeaker, 255 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 7: and they would have a like an outdoor service. I 256 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,359 Speaker 7: would see people passing by with shoulder arms in uniforms, 257 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 7: and I'd be close enough I could actually hear their conversations. 258 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,359 Speaker 7: Because I was in thick brush, I was hearing commentary 259 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 7: on Jews and a lot of hate talk. I was 260 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 7: here and talk about the future of the Aryan Nations. 261 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: What Wayne was hearing was the core of Aryan Nations 262 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: belief system, a militant gospel of white supremacy cloaked in 263 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: religion They preached that Jews controlled the government what they 264 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: called the Zionist Occupation Government or ZOG, and that erace 265 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: war was coming, not only inevitable, but wholly. In their eyes, 266 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: violence was a divine duty. 267 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 7: Being a marine, I was used to traveling through terrain cautiously, 268 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 7: and I came up on a tripwire. The trip wire 269 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 7: was very tut and I traced it down that I 270 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 7: saw where it would have set off in alarm. So 271 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 7: I had to be really careful after that. 272 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: And tripwire wasn't the only problem for Wayne. 273 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 7: Then they had a fellow that would patrol the perimeter 274 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 7: of the property with a German shepherd big I mean 275 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 7: this is like AE hundred pounds dollar maybe one hundred 276 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 7: and twenty pounds. And he would stop at a point 277 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 7: up above me and he would throw pine cones and 278 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 7: the dog was runn to get the pine cones and 279 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 7: bring them back, and they would play that way. And well, 280 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 7: one night he came through and the wind was blowing 281 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 7: just enough in the direction from me to him. The 282 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 7: dog picked up my scent and the dog growled and 283 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 7: ran barking toward me. And when the dog got to me, 284 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 7: I picked up a pine cone and I threw it 285 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 7: out of the bushes back towards where the guard was, 286 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 7: and he ran and he got the pine cone, brought 287 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 7: it back one time, and I threw another one, and 288 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 7: then he ran up and then the guy that was 289 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 7: walking with him called him to him. That was a 290 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 7: hard stopper. 291 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: For the moment Wayne was still invisible. The surveillance gave 292 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: Wayne a first hand look at the group's rhetoric and rituals. 293 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: It was clear to him how dangerous they were, but 294 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 1: he didn't yet have any proof of actual crimes that 295 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: would allow law enforcement to act. So he went back 296 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: to the names Larry Broadbent had given him and started 297 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: knocking on doors. 298 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 7: And I began to develop information that definitely indicated that 299 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 7: there was either people within the group that were committing 300 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 7: crimes or there were people in the group that felt 301 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 7: that they should be doing Then one of them said 302 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 7: that he'd actually seen counterfeit money that was printed at 303 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 7: the church. That was a good strong bite right there. 304 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: Then Larry gave him another name. 305 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 7: His name was Gary Yarbro. He had served in the 306 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 7: Arizona State prison system for a crime of violence, and 307 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 7: while in prison, he belonged to the area in Brotherhood, 308 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 7: which is a prison group of white violent prisoners. 309 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: Gary Yarborough would prove to be important. He was a 310 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: bridge between the movement and something even darker that Wayne 311 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: suspected was operating beneath it. While Wayne was listening through 312 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: the trees and knocking on doors in Idaho, a different 313 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: kind of operation was unfolding hundreds of miles away in 314 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: Washington State. It didn't have a name yet, but it 315 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: had a plan and a leader, Bob Matthews. 316 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 7: Bob is a very intelligent and in his own mind, 317 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 7: he was a very strong patriots. He loved this country 318 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 7: and he felt he do what had to be done 319 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 7: and he would take martyrs to bring it back to 320 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 7: where it was at the time the Constitution was first 321 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 7: formed and signed. 322 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: Matthews had a dark vision for an alternate America, a 323 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: country for whites only, and they need lots of money 324 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: to try and make it happen. 325 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 7: Doing surveillances out at the church, Bob tells him, we 326 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 7: have got to raise big money and the only way 327 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 7: to do that is through criminal activity. To show his earnestness, 328 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 7: in December of nineteen eighty three, Bob walks into a 329 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 7: bank in Seattle and he robs the bank. He got 330 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 7: away with something over two thousand dollars. Certainly not much, 331 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 7: you know, but he believes that God was directing him, 332 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 7: and God was on his side. 333 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: Matthew's crew graduated from cash registers to couriers. What started 334 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: as a solo act was evolving into something more ambitious. 335 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 7: Bob tells him it's up to us. So two of 336 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 7: the guys they rob a schooney's cash career. It's a 337 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 7: truck stop, and they robbed the courier when he comes 338 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 7: to pick up money. There's one gunshot in that, but 339 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 7: nobody's hurt and they get away with it free. 340 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: The first heist was fast, clean and quiet, and most importantly, 341 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 1: it worked. It was January now, a new year, nineteen 342 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: eighty four, and for Matthew's crew, a new kind of resolution, 343 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: go bigger or go home. 344 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 7: A couple of weeks later after getting away with that, 345 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 7: were the same two people rob a bank in Eastern Spoken. 346 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 7: They get away with four thousand something dollars plus what 347 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 7: they got from schoonies. 348 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,239 Speaker 1: The second robbery netted even more, and what began as 349 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: isolated stick ups was starting to look like the funding 350 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: of an infrastructure. 351 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 7: This money's all going into a pot. These are robberies 352 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 7: being conducted for an organization. We're now starting to format 353 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 7: a group, which is kind of necessary. If you're looking 354 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 7: at Errico statues. 355 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: The crimes weren't just stacking up. They were scaling up. 356 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: By spring. They were testing the limits of what they 357 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: could pull off. 358 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 7: In March of nineteen eighty four, unbeknownst to me, four 359 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 7: of them get together. They go to Seattle. They hit 360 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 7: a cash career from a Continental armored truck as it's 361 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 7: coming out of the fred Meyer store, and on this 362 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 7: one they get about forty thousand dollars. They've just robbed 363 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 7: an armored truck. So now they're starting to lay out 364 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 7: a track with a plan, something that works. 365 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: What Wayne didn't know, what no one knew, was that 366 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: this wasn't just a crime spree. It was a war 367 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: chest in the making. Until March of nineteen eighty four, 368 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: the robberies in Washington didn't feel connected to the group 369 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: in Idaho. But then Wayne saw the headlines an armored 370 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: truck hit in Seattle, and something clicked. 371 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 7: What I see about it in the paper, I wonder 372 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 7: if that could be these guys it's pretty unusual for 373 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 7: an armored truck to be robbed. 374 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: Right then came the break, a photograph of a face 375 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: Wayne recognized. 376 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 7: Larry pulled a photograph from the bank robberies in January. 377 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 7: I take that photograph and I identify. I can't say positively, 378 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 7: but I'll say I'm ninety percent convinced That'scury Yarbrough, who's 379 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 7: a member of the area in Nation. 380 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: The same name given by the informant was now pictured 381 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: at the scene, a face linking the group to a crime. 382 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: That's when the group's leader popped up on Wayne's radar. 383 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 7: I discussed that with Larry Broadbn and he said, you know, 384 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 7: there's a guy that's been very prolific. He doesn't live 385 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 7: around here, but his name is Bob Matthews. So I 386 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 7: pulled all the information I could find on Bob Matthews 387 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 7: and his photograph. I saw that he was a charismatic personality. 388 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 7: He really needed more attention. 389 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: Bob Matthews seemed to be more than just a member 390 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: of the group. It was like he was leading it 391 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: and growing it. 392 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 7: It's April nineteen eighty four. I'm making some little progress, 393 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 7: but this group is going full tilt. Since they hit 394 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 7: forty thousand on that armored car robbery. They now have 395 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 7: pulled together a few more people in the group and 396 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 7: they're going to go back and do another armored car robbery. 397 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 7: Yarborough again, the guy with the criminal record. He comes 398 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 7: up with the idea. He says, you know, we need 399 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 7: to divert all the police to the other side of town. 400 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 7: I'll build a bomb and I'll put it in this 401 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 7: porn theater on the other side of town. So he does, 402 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 7: and on April twenty second, the bomb goes off inside 403 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 7: the corn theater. The cops come from everywhere. 404 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 1: Not even twenty four hours later, they were at it again. 405 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 7: The next day, on April twenty third. They've been surveilling 406 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 7: this armored truck and they know just exactly when they 407 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 7: want to take it down. They put a phone call 408 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 7: into the police department and say, we got another bomb 409 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 7: in the theater. And there is no bomb in the theater. 410 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 7: It's just a diversionary tactic to get the cops all 411 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 7: over there. They hit the armored truck, and they hit 412 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 7: it big time. Weapons drawn. They even made up a 413 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 7: fake bazouka and it looked like a bazooka, and this 414 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 7: time they get close to a quarter million. 415 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: Once again, the heist had worked, but Matthews was out 416 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: for more than cash. He also wanted soldiers. 417 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 7: He's elated, He's very proud of his people, but he 418 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 7: knows he's got to have a lot more to finance 419 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 7: the organization. He's got to have an army. So he 420 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 7: gets involved in recruiting. 421 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: Calling from old hate groups and prison gangs. 422 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 7: He's off in the Philadelphia recruit He's down in the 423 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 7: South into Arkansas. He's in California. He's recruiting people from 424 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 7: the q clarks Klan, the National Alliance, and he provides 425 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 7: some counterfeit money to these people so they could pass 426 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 7: the counterfeit money there. 427 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: He was drawing from a rolodex that have been building 428 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: since Vietnam One that fused armed separatism with hate. His 429 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: goal was revolution. He wanted to topple the government he called 430 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: the Zionist Occupation and create a white homeland by force. 431 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: But as the organization grew, Matthew struggled to maintain control 432 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: of his people. Eventually, the sloppiness of two put the 433 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: entire organization at risk. 434 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 7: This money that was printed, they're passing this counterfeit money 435 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 7: in the mall. Bruce Carrol Pierce gets caught and now 436 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 7: has a court date. And one of the guys he 437 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 7: gave calfit money too, up and around Philadelphia was a 438 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 7: guy named Tom Martinez. And then Tom Martinez gets caught 439 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 7: with counterfeit money. 440 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: It was a mistake that had consequences, and Bob Matthews 441 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: took it personally. 442 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 7: He's now really angry that the guys have done something 443 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 7: that might have caused him to get arrested. 444 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: But the misstep didn't stop him. Instead, he accelerated because 445 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: now he had more than money, he had manpower. 446 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 7: Bob has got his army for him. That's in the 447 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 7: number of twenty one dedicated people, and there's three or 448 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 7: four to come yet. And with the money they bought 449 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 7: the bisophisticated weaponry and explosives. 450 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: Money wasn't the only goal anymore now it was also revenge. 451 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 7: Bob tells him, we've got some scores to sell them 452 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 7: right now. Is an obnoxious show out in Denver, and 453 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 7: he's a very popular radio talk show guy. He's got 454 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 7: hundreds of thousands of followers. This guy's got to be 455 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 7: done away with. 456 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 9: Fifty thousand wa Koaight News Talk eighty five is presenting 457 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 9: the ellen Burg program called eight six' one Talk. 458 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 3: Alan Berg on CAAWEIT News Talk eighty five. Don't forget 459 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: right after one thirty news. We have callers on the line. 460 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 3: We have one line open right now, so get out 461 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: on the line. It's gonna be a fun afternoon. But 462 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 3: I really get rolling right after the one thirty news. 463 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: That was some tapes. 464 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 4: I mean, he never came in dull. Once and his. 465 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: Wife, Peter Boyle, sat across from Denver talk radio host 466 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: Alan Burke almost every day four years. 467 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 4: Friend of mine at a talk station, and he called 468 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 4: me up and he said, do you ever think about 469 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 4: doing talk radio? I needed morning talk shows and I 470 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 4: wanted to get away from the insanity. Kaylee k was station. 471 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 4: We were as a country station, and so I quit. 472 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 4: At the time, Tuck was really relegated to little old 473 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 4: ladies calling up. I remember pulling away from the station 474 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 4: and they were all outside saying, we'll go talk to 475 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 4: the little old ladies, see you later. And I went 476 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 4: to KWBZ and it was the only Denver talk station 477 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 4: at the time. That's where I met. 478 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: Berg, Peter and Allen eventually moved stations and landed at 479 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: Denver's KOA little did he know what he was getting 480 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: into and just how far Alan was willing to take it. 481 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 4: He walked in cold hit that seat. He did shows 482 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: like white people get tanned because they really want to 483 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 4: be black, stuff to make people nuts. He was radio's 484 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,239 Speaker 4: professional wrestler. Well, why don't you tell us about some 485 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: of the shows that you've done that stand out in 486 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 4: your memory? 487 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 3: I think the most continuing saga, if we could call 488 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 3: it that, it's been a show I came up with 489 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 3: the idea some eight years ago and have an idea 490 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: about sun tanning and the recent people didn't like themselves white, 491 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 3: or they really didn't like themselves white, maybe secretly wanting 492 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: to be black. That show has been a continued craziness 493 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 3: for the last eight years. I've shifted the way in 494 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: which I've done that show, but I do it every year. 495 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: If I'll be doing it probably in the next few weeks 496 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: as the sun, you know, comes out and burns the bodies. 497 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: Alan Berg was always pushing the limits of what live 498 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: radio could get away with, one of the original shock jocks, 499 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: but not everyone loved the act. 500 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: Killed me ye, so you're on CHOA. 501 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 8: I guess I agree with the man that was on 502 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 8: the phone with the premier hood. But maybe you got 503 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 8: something you care to present instead of just encircling, so 504 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 8: I probably do I try. 505 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to go. 506 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 9: There was an elderly gentleman named Edward. 507 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 8: Called the man I called an idiot, and he certainly 508 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 8: was an idiot. Go ahead, well, idiot, you know someone 509 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 8: that has no brain at all? And I feel that 510 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 8: well sometimes the way the people act and doing wrestling 511 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 8: with him, I'm not sure anybody does. 512 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 7: Have a brain. 513 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: Talk radio was still raw in those days. There was 514 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: no call screening or delay buntons, just a live mic 515 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: and whatever came through the line. When Peter stepped into it, 516 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: he was joining a medium that felt more like the 517 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: wild West. 518 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 4: We were all learning this business. Remember this is at 519 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 4: a time when talk radio is burgeoning. Rush Limbaugh hasn't 520 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 4: shown up yet. We're Cowboy and the John, and here 521 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 4: he is. Probably had no business being in the business, 522 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 4: but he changes the business. We were learning under fire. 523 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 4: It was like a war. 524 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: And the more time the two men spent together, the 525 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: more Peter realized Alan was unique a disbarred attorney from Chicago, 526 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: Alan wound his way into radio. He was always one 527 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: provocation away from turning a calm conversation into a brawl. 528 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 5: Together. 529 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 10: Go ahead, and we listened to all day. 530 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 9: We think they're just a big bag of win down here? 531 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 8: Why is that? 532 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 7: Oh? People? That? What is it? 533 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 3: Would you care to challenge to point them of mind 534 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 3: and make a presentation on him? You just want to 535 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: sam a bag of win? 536 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 8: Well, well give me an example. So you're going nowhere? 537 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay, Well I guess you got nowhere to go. 538 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 3: Well I did that one killed me lying, So you're 539 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 3: on KOA. 540 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 4: Keep us him up inside. It wasn't the guy that 541 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 4: was on air. The guy that was on air, I 542 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 4: think I always thought he was in a courtroom of 543 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 4: some kind. 544 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 3: I lost someoney will come in here and say he stinks. Okay, 545 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 3: so what do you mean he stinks? What is that 546 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 3: based upon? See? Now you're making them think, and most 547 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: people really don't want to think. They have no facts. 548 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 3: They're like sheep. They pick up an idea. The Republicans 549 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: are great, the Democrats are great. Never one saying well, 550 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 3: wait a minute, let me examine this. What are they 551 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 3: really doing? They have no information. They buy a president 552 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: the same way they back to his paste. 553 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 4: He was flamboyant. He came on and I said in 554 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 4: his eulogy he was the greatest professional wrestler that I 555 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 4: ever worked with in radio. He knew the right buttons 556 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 4: to push. 557 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: That was the Alan Berg people tuned in for. If 558 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: he didn't like what someone said or their views, he 559 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: definitely let them know it. And he was anything but PC. 560 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: And sometimes it was less of an interview than a takedown, 561 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: like the time Alan blew a gasket when he disagreed 562 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: with the perspective of one of his callers. 563 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 3: Well, Elan, do you want to answer the questions or not? 564 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 8: I wanted to calm down and I'll explain it. 565 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 3: It's very hard to calm down based on what you said. 566 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 3: But go ahead, Sarah. 567 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 4: You're acting like a pig. 568 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: Oh there, you're a pathetic human being. You know what 569 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 3: you are? One of the most vile human beings to 570 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 3: walk up to a human being. And how much is 571 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 3: are you Jewish? Are you? 572 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 8: Yes? 573 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm Jewish. I'm ashamed that you belong to my 574 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 3: people and I'm sure most Jewish in his country are. 575 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 3: You are the slime of the Yark County. So if 576 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: you will, baby, why don't you so many for defamation? 577 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 3: You dig it, I'm gonna you're a creepswaiting anyway. Eight 578 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 3: six one talk eight six one eight two five. I 579 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 3: I want your reaction, certainly, if you think I was 580 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 3: rude to her, you tell me that I was. We'll 581 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 3: come back after this. 582 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: Alan knew how to provoke and rubbed a lot of 583 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: people the wrong way. But despite his on air persona, 584 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: Peter saw a very different man when Alan stepped away 585 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: from the mic, quieter, self, reflective, and somewhat mysterious. 586 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 3: I kid myself so endlessly. That's painful. It's a defense 587 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 3: mechanism for me. I kid myself because I really don't 588 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 3: want you to know how badly I feel about the 589 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 3: very things that I'm kidding myself by. 590 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 4: I think it was just part of who he was, 591 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 4: and to this day, after all of these years, I 592 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 4: find myself still not really knowing who he really was. 593 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 4: But we were tight. 594 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: The two became close friends and were nearly inseparable. 595 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 3: We happen to have what I think, I think is 596 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: one of the really inventive, brilliant talk shows in the country. 597 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 3: I think the best I've ever heard of work is 598 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 3: my buddy Peter Boyles in the morning here in Kia. 599 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 3: He has the combination of being inventive and he has 600 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 3: a realism and he has an earthen as couple with 601 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 3: a great intellectuality. That is a very rare thing with 602 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: talk shows. 603 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: We worked together beside each other every day, got together 604 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 4: once during the week for dinner or just to sit 605 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 4: and talk. We'd get a table for ten or whatever 606 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 4: it was, and we bring people that we knew and 607 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 4: we'd sit them there, but we didn't talk to them. 608 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 4: He and I sat together. I remember I was seeing 609 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 4: a woman and said, you see this guy every day, 610 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 4: you know, you talk to him all the time, and 611 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 4: then you had dinner with him. And that was the 612 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 4: way that it was. 613 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: Alan and Peter were also co conspirators in the rise 614 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: of a new kind of radio. 615 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 3: Now. Humor is the greatest level of communication I've ever known, 616 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 3: because when you and I laughed together here as a certain 617 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 3: we really are communicating. Because if you think it's funny 618 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 3: and I think it's saying something to each other, well 619 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 3: we're really silently agreeing. 620 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: That's what it's about, but that philosophy wasn't shared by 621 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: all of Allan's listeners. He confronted people and hot button 622 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: topics like bigotry head on and don't forget those exchanges 623 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: were live. Some thought it made for great radio, but 624 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: it also made real enemies. 625 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 4: Socrates, I think, said little boys kill frogs in sport, 626 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 4: the frogs die in earnest. We were just having fun 627 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 4: and getting ratings, and these people were taking it serious. 628 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 4: When we ran into Rick Elliott, that really sets this 629 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 4: whole thing off. 630 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: Rick Elliott was a fringe far right agitator and self 631 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: published conspiracy theorist who surfaced on Denver radio in the 632 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: early eighties. Elliott claimed in a book that Jews were 633 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: secretly plotting to take over the world. So Peter brought 634 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: him on air. 635 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 4: My approached Rick Elliott was you're a damn fool. So 636 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 4: Berg came in behind me. He gives me the tap 637 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 4: on the shoulder and I killed Hi, mic what and 638 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 4: he said, I want this guy? He said cool. So 639 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 4: we get to about ten of the hour and I said, 640 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 4: my colleague Alan Berg's here. He would like to talk 641 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 4: to you next. And by this time I got this 642 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 4: guy up in the air and he said, I'll do it. 643 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 4: I said, all right, so berb takes him on. He 644 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,959 Speaker 4: doesn't intellectualize the guy, he doesn't prove, He just rips them. 645 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: But what they didn't realize was who else was listening. 646 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 4: Rick Elliott had a part time bodyguard by the name 647 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 4: of David Lane. David Lane is in the other room 648 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 4: listening on air. So what Alan did. David Lane was 649 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 4: a klansman, a supremacist, a golf hospeler, all wrong, dad guy. 650 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 4: And that was really the I think the predicator. 651 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: To these guys. Alan wasn't just an irritant. He was 652 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: now the enemy. 653 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 4: They actually gave him a name. Joseph Gerbels was the 654 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 4: gallighter of Nazi Germany, the propagandist and I can't think 655 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 4: of the word, but they invented a word Yiddish German. 656 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 7: I don't know. 657 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 4: They said, that's what Bird was, that he was doing 658 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 4: a gall lighter, if you would, for the zog the 659 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 4: Zionist occupation government, the Jews taking. 660 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: Over around that same time. The radio station gave Allen 661 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: a bigger spotlight, a shift that could open doors to 662 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,919 Speaker 1: a wider fan base and potentially new adversaries. 663 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 4: Alan. He was moved the Knights. 664 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: At night, the station's signal could reach halfway across the country. 665 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 4: Kowa becomes fifty thousand clear channel Watts. I mean, you 666 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 4: could get it in Canada, you could get it in your. 667 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: Teeth, including deep into the woods of Idaho. 668 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 4: They're up in a place called Hayden leg That's where 669 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 4: rich Butler's compound is. Robert Matthews is the have It Butler, 670 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 4: of course, was a spiritual head. They were recruiting for 671 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 4: this nucleus of people that are willing to do the job. 672 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 4: He gets Bruce, Carl Pearce, they get David Lane, Richard's Katari. 673 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 4: They bring all these people together. Berg he's on the 674 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 4: night show. So he gets Richard Butler on and he 675 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 4: takes them home to understand how he operated. He didn't like, 676 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 4: well that's not true, or that's not true. He just 677 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 4: went into them like he could do so. Hiding away 678 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 4: listening in Idaho that night was that team. And I 679 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 4: believe I don't know this, but I believe that was 680 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 4: the night that they decide they're going to kill. 681 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: Him, and they easily found more help. 682 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 7: Unbeknownst to the others, Bob had a Paramore. She was 683 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 7: out in Colorado now. Her mother was a committed follower 684 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 7: of Matthews. Was like she was in love with him herself. 685 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 7: She was just so dedicated to helping Bob. She says, 686 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 7: let me go to Denver. I'll live there and I'll 687 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 7: follow him every day from the moment he leaves his 688 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 7: house until he gets back at night. Bob says, okay, 689 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 7: she does an excellent job of it. She couldn't tell 690 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 7: them everything he does when he leaves the house. When 691 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 7: he comes back, She's got it all laid out. 692 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: Alan had no idea of the plot being mounted against him. 693 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: He kept on facing off against extremists, interviewing figures like 694 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: Richard Butler, Jack Moore, and David Duke. 695 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 4: He did it in the way that it was performance art. 696 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 4: Everything that he did was about the show. The show 697 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 4: was everything Shakespeare, you know, plays the thing, and that's 698 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 4: who he was. 699 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: For Alan, these guys were part of the act. 700 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 4: They were foils. He wanted people to call up and 701 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 4: argue with him. He wanted people to haiti because he 702 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 4: knew that was ratings. We're killing we're making money. 703 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: That's all but counted and through it all, Peter and 704 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: Alan kept to their daily rhythm. They talk every morning 705 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: before shows, plan dinner and trade notes. Then one Monday 706 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: in June of nineteen eighty four, the men talked on 707 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: the phone and made a plan to go out. 708 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 4: We were going to have dinner. Judy Burg, his ex wife, 709 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 4: was in town and my son's playing low leg So 710 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 4: I said, my son's got a game, and he said, well, 711 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 4: Judy's in town. I got to take care of her. 712 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 4: And I said, well, love you man, We'll do it 713 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 4: tomorrow night. He said, I love you too. We never spoke 714 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 4: with him again. 715 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: The same evening that Allan and Peter talked on the phone, 716 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: three men had traveled hundreds of miles heading to Colorado. 717 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 7: Bob gets to Denver. He's got with him Richard's guitari, 718 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 7: his recruit out of the Covenants, sword and Arm of 719 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 7: the Lord. He has Bruce Carroll Pierce with him. Pierce 720 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 7: is going to be a charge of assassinations. I mean, 721 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 7: he's got David Lane with him, and they've got a 722 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 7: mac tin fully automatic weapon. 723 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: They positioned themselves in the shadows just off the driveway 724 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: and waited in silence. 725 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 7: They're set up and they're waiting in the dark for 726 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 7: Alan Berger. When he comes in. He just chopped and 727 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 7: picked up a few things and he comes up in 728 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 7: his folk flying parks in his spot, opens the door 729 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 7: and Bruce Carroll Pearce walks up and shoots him, and 730 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 7: he hits him thirteen times with his mac tin. The 731 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 7: gun jammed on the fourteenth throne. Alan Berg is on 732 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 7: the ground, multiple bullet rooms. He's dead. 733 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: Within minutes, Allan's body was discovered and across town, Peter 734 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: was awoken by the call you. 735 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 4: He said, sit up, and I remember sending up in 736 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 4: bed and he said Alan's gone. I said what, and 737 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 4: he said, Alan's dead. He's been murdered. Turn on your TV. 738 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 4: And I turned on and was on Channel four and 739 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 4: they were live on Adams Street, back behind the police barricades. 740 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 4: And there's that now legendary picture of the Volkswagen, the 741 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 4: car door opened, groceries spread out, his body lying there, 742 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,760 Speaker 4: pull the blood around his body, and he was dead. 743 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 7: This is big, big news in Colorado. It's kind of 744 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 7: big news around the country. Bummy, it's huge in Denver. 745 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 7: Everybody's talking about it. 746 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 11: Alan Berg called himself the man you love to hate, 747 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,280 Speaker 11: a distinction which may have ultimately cost him his life. 748 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 11: The Denver radio talk show host was gunned down at 749 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 11: point blank range outside his home Monday night. 750 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,800 Speaker 1: The quest for answers was just beginning. 751 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 4: People start pounding on my door and it was a 752 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 4: Channel nine film crew. They wanted to do interviews and 753 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 4: talk to me, and I remember just being like, this 754 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 4: isn't true, this isn't real. 755 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: Initially there were no suspects. 756 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,760 Speaker 4: When asked who killed him, one of the Denver murder 757 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 4: detectives took a Denver phone book and throw it on 758 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,879 Speaker 4: the table and said, pick a name. 759 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: Alan's colleague Ken Hamblin broke the news to their listeners. 760 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 10: Everybody's at the scene right now and as soon as 761 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 10: we can get an update on what has occurred, will 762 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 10: pass it along to you. 763 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 5: Ten forty two on a. 764 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 2: Very very very. 765 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: Blue evening, the city of Denver was left reeling. 766 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,280 Speaker 5: Oh boy, you are on Kowa. 767 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 8: HI could even to hammer. 768 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 6: That news just sucked me. 769 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 8: I could not believe what I heard. 770 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 10: I can't believe how low people will go, the anger 771 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 10: and arranging me for that person that did that thing. 772 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,439 Speaker 11: To him to burn. 773 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to explain it. 774 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 4: I know how you feel. 775 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 5: Thanks for calling okay. 776 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: To Alan's friends, it was surreal. 777 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 3: And it's a shock. 778 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 10: I wish this were a misguided broadcast of Boston Wells 779 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 10: War of the World's because then it would be a 780 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 10: big hoax and we'd be all able to say April fool. 781 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 4: But it's not even April. 782 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 5: It's tonight. When I said that the man is intrinsically 783 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,280 Speaker 5: evil and good is impressed upon him, I was told 784 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,919 Speaker 5: that I was too cynical. I'm still cynical, and I've 785 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 5: got one less friend. 786 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: In the same breath that he mourned his friend and colleague, 787 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: Ken Hamblin turned his rage towards the people responsible. 788 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:02,399 Speaker 4: Somebody out there. 789 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,280 Speaker 6: I know I can feel your presence listening to Koa 790 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 6: to feel the result of your handiwork. You're a loser man, 791 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 6: you're talk show host or a diamond dozen. If allen 792 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 6: Berg was anything before you blew him away, he was nothing, 793 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 6: and you made him immortal. You made him a part 794 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 6: of me, and you gave value to everything that ever 795 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 6: justified your sick act. 796 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: Tonight, to Alan's assassins, his death was divine fulfillment. 797 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 7: They acknowledged that this was under the power of God, 798 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 7: because he's honoring the original formation of thirteen States, thirteen 799 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 7: rounds in the weapons gym. They're pushing everything toward this 800 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 7: concept that God is looking after them. 801 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: But in their eyes, even science from above came with instructions. 802 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,760 Speaker 1: The gun had served its purpose and now it needed 803 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: to disappear. 804 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 7: Bob tells Pierce to give this weapon to Yarborough and 805 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,879 Speaker 7: have Yarborough destroy it. So Pierce does give the gun 806 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 7: to Yarbrough when they get back. 807 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,720 Speaker 1: That night, Alan Berg became a mortal to one group, 808 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: a symbol of freedom of speech, and to another a 809 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: catalyst for white nationalist revolution. Soon, law enforcement would discover 810 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,760 Speaker 1: that Alan's death was a doorway to a wider conspiracy. 811 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 2: Next time on Law and Order Criminal Justice System. 812 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 7: The Order is a group that was formed by Bob Matthews. 813 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 7: They want to kill all the Jews and take over 814 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 7: the United States. 815 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,879 Speaker 9: What Beam did was really to promote this idea that 816 00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 9: anyone and everyone could get involved. In the movie, don't 817 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 9: wait for someone to come to you, start your own militia. 818 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,360 Speaker 7: Bob Matthews will not surrender. We decided to bring helicopters in. 819 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,320 Speaker 2: Matthews opened up on the helicopter with his ar fifteen 820 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 2: Law and Order Criminal Justice System is a production of 821 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolaze. 822 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 2: The show was written by Cooper Mall, Executive produced by 823 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 2: Dick Wolf, Elliot Wolf and Stephen Michael at Wolf Entertainment 824 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 2: on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Executive producers Trevor Young and 825 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:46,240 Speaker 2: Matt Frederick, with supervising producer Chandler Mays and producer Jesse Funk. 826 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 2: This season is executive produced by Anna Sega Nicolazi. Our 827 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,879 Speaker 2: researchers are Luke Stantz and Carolyn Tolmage. Editing and sound 828 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 2: designed by Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. Original met music 829 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 2: by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post with additional 830 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 2: music by Steve Moore and additional voice over by me 831 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 2: Steve Zernkelton. Special thanks to Fox five in New York 832 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,279 Speaker 2: for providing archival material for the show. For more podcasts 833 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 2: from My Heart in Wolf Entertainment, visit the iHeartRadio app, 834 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,480 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Thanks 835 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 2: for listening.