1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: If he ever cuts down on the strikeouts just a 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: little bit, he's going to be one of these guys 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: and maybe it goes down in history. He's got that 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: kind of ability. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory. This is your co host 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: Patrick Mooney of The Athletic leading off a very special 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: episode with a very special guest, our Guy Gordon Wittenmeyer 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: of the Cincinnati Inquirer. Gordon is still a Chicago media factor, 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: best known here for his tireless work at the Chicago 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: Sun Times. As a long time baseball beat reporter, Gordon 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: is still extremely curious and passionate about the job. He 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: feels an enormous sense of responsibility to the fans, the readers, 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 2: as well as his sources. And competing against him in Chicago, 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: you had that voice in the back of your head, like, 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: what is Gordon working on? What does he have that 16 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: maybe I don't And if you've ever read any of 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: his coverage, you'll know that he's also not afraid to 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: piss people off. So with the Reds coming to town 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: on the final weekend of a disappointing season for both teams, 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: it seemed like a good time to check in. 21 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 3: Gordon. 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 2: Thank you, for joining us bringing a wealth of knowledge 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: and experience podcast. We're always texting and catching up, but 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: this one seemed appropriate with the Reds coming into town 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: for I don't know what you'd call this irrelevant series. 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about that. Back in Cincinnati, we 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: just had people kept telling me with Pittsburgh in town 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: it was a battle for fourth place. I said, he's 29 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: a battle for fifth place. But I don't know what 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: you'd call this one. Is it an upgrade? Is it 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: a downgrade? I mean, they didn't they boo the White 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: Sox for winning the other day down right? 33 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: Now? Right, Well, I'm curious, like. 34 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: What happened to the Reds this year because I think 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: it's very relevant of the Cubs of like, all right, 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: you got you got some talent. Uh, you think you're 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: building something and it doesn't always work. 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's a great point. And I 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: did do a lot of comparisons with the Reds and 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: the Cubs coming into this season. Uh. The first thing 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: that happened were some key injuries. Okay, but everybody's got those. 42 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: They had him out of the shoot. Uh, a guy 43 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: who again you don't know what you were gonna get 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: Matt McClain. He was their best player last year after 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: he debuted in May, so he only had four four 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: and a half months of service time, and then over 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: a month of that was also spent on the il, 48 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: So as good as he was in the time that 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: he played, you don't know what a young player like 50 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: that's gonna give you. And he missed all season with 51 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: a shoulder injury and then a rib cage thing. They 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: missed their center fielder for three stretches on the I 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: l pretty much in the first half of the season, 54 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: including a broken a broken wrist dring training. Now, the 55 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: significance of that isn't like they didn't lose, you know, 56 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: Ruth and Garrett what they lost, but for a team 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: of that market size, that did double down on pitching 58 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: in the office and got a lot of good pitching. 59 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: The biggest significance of that was they're not a good 60 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: fielding team, and those were their two best fielders. So 61 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: they get out of the gate looking the outfield kind 62 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: of played up a little bit for a while. Defensively, 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: the infield was kind of a mess, and they're one 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: of the worst fielding teams in baseball even now, even 65 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: with TJ. Friedel, that center fielder back. They just never 66 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: recovered defensively, and I'm not sure that those two guys 67 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: would have been enough to put them over the top 68 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: defensively anyway. And again, who knows what you get Ata 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: McClain either side of the ball, other than that this 70 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: is a team that was built designed to win at 71 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: the margins, and they lost way too often at those margins. 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: A team that was built with speed and going to 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: be aggressive on the base pass. We were promised week 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: one of spring training we're gonna be better on the 75 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: basis this year because we're working really hard. We're making 76 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: sure that these guys are going to be we think, 77 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: better prepared in every situation this year when they're when 78 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: they're on the basis, for instance, Uh, they looked unprepared. 79 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: Oftentimes they made mistakes they made the way. I talked 80 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: to one of the team officials who asked me what 81 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: I saw, and I told him, I said, you guys 82 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: make too many mistakes and you can't You have to 83 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: win doing those things. As soon as you lose doing 84 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: those things, you can't win anything. And my takeaway on 85 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: the on the base running is you don't have thumpers 86 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: in the middle of your lineup. So you can be 87 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: good base runners with all that athleticism and speed and 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: the rules changes and everything, but you have to be exceptional. Exceptional. 89 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: They made more outs on the bases than anybody else, 90 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: and the Cubs know a little bit about that. 91 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking of dal slams like a vitamin one 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: a day. 93 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: With exactly that's exactly what I saw. Thanks for bringing 94 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: that up, because that's perfect. That's what we saw all year. 95 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: And then in the field they were terrible, and they 96 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: did things like stick with the Noelvie Martee, a rookie 97 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: who played six weeks last year and got popped for 98 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: steroids in the spring training, missed the first eighty of 99 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: the year, gets that ten days in the minor leagues 100 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: to come back and get ready to get back on 101 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: the roster. And he looked like crap in the minor leagues, 102 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: and they brought him up anyway, because he's athletic, he 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: looks the part. They thought they could get better defense 104 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: at third base bringing him up. They didn't. He looked terrible. 105 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: He was throwing the ball all over the place, he 106 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: couldn't buy a hit, and then he was the guy 107 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: who he was the biggest deficit on that team all 108 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: year long. And I'm not even counting being gone for 109 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: eighty games. He might have been a bigger deficit when 110 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: he was there because he was unprepared then. And I've 111 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: talked to people in the front office who saw more 112 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: things than I did. Not only was he unprepared, didn't 113 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: know where to go with the ball whenever he managed 114 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: to catch it, and then even if he didn't know, 115 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: maybe he threw it over the guy's head, but he 116 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: also half assed plays, especially down the stretch. And man, 117 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: this is a major leagues. If you're a kid, especially, 118 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: you can't have that. I mean you or I, if 119 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: if we were running things, would say, dude, you're you're 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: at least sitting and maybe you're sitting in Louisville. 121 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: Like if I was your VP of common sense, that's 122 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: what you were running the team. Well, I think it's 123 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: interesting because like I know, you knew Dave, have known 124 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: David Bell a long time. I crossed pass with him 125 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: briefly while he was on Dale Swim's staff. Like this 126 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: is what got him fired, right, I mean, it's absolutely 127 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: what got. 128 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: I mean, what went down with Bell in Cincinnati. 129 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and we got we got enough of 130 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: that on the record. Yeah, talking to some people behind 131 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: the scenes. H it was made crystal clear. Yeah, no 132 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: doubt about it. Okay, accountability, Elie de la Cruz wonderful talent, 133 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: amazing talent. If he ever cuts down on the strikeouts 134 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: just a little bit, he's going to be one of 135 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: these guys. Is uh, maybe that goes down in history. 136 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: He's got that kind of ability. And he became an 137 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: All Star this year. But he also does you know 138 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: there was a play about a month ago. They're still 139 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: technically in it. Pop up on the infield, on the 140 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: second base side of the bag, he's playing shortstop. He 141 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: goes over and he clowns around. He does some version 142 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: of that membery what Elvis Andrews used to do with 143 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Beltrey and and and then clown around and pretend like 144 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: he's gonna catch it. Catch it all dropped in between him. 145 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: The second baseman got the air. So you're so you're thinking, 146 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: and and and if if you wanted to be like 147 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: completely generous and give everybody the benefit of the doubt, 148 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: you could maybe convince yourself that he wasn't clowning. He 149 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: just screwed up some other way. But as soon as 150 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: you watch the play again, and then as soon as 151 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: you talk to anybody around it, he was definitely clowning. 152 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: And and he got and he was right back in 153 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the lineup the next day. And uh. And not only that, 154 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: but the ex the nation after the game was no explanation. 155 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: It was a ball dropped and we didn't make the play. 156 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: It wasn't. We can't have that and it will be addressed, 157 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: which is the easy thing to say. So these were 158 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: these were the kinds of things I love. I love 159 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: David Bill to death. I don't think he thinks I 160 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: do because some of the stuff I've had to write 161 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: or about. But he's a wonderful person, just a great 162 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: human being, maybe maybe the best in the game that 163 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: I've ever run across. Wow. And he also, I mean, 164 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: he probably knew more baseball at twelve than I've had 165 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: a lifetime to ever learn, right, I mean that generation 166 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: guy is dad was an all star. His dad was 167 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: an all star. He played twelve years in the big leagues. 168 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: All the respect in the world for his baseball knowledge. 169 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: I just don't know that it always that it always played. 170 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he we played for some of the best managers. 171 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: Kid Yeah, Loop Panela, My God, I guarantee you Loop 172 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: Panella wouldn't put up. 173 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: Today, we're looking for real ways to boost our nutrition 174 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 4: and just found a protein shake that actually tastes amazing. 175 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 4: It's called Orgain and it's been a game changer. 176 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 5: Organ is the leader in real protein power nutrition that 177 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 5: understands that being good for you doesn't have to taste bad. 178 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 5: It's the organic ingredients we're looking for. But I don't 179 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 5: want a grainy battle with my taste buds every day. 180 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. It's given smooth milkshake vibes. 181 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 5: That's Orgain and they have a brand new thirty gram 182 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 5: complete protein shake that offers protein packed real nutrition designed 183 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 5: to satisfy your cravings without all the sugar. 184 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 4: It gives me energy, provides muscle support and helps manage 185 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 4: hunger too. It's also made without soy ingredients and made 186 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 4: with no artificial flavors or sweeteners or gain. Thirty gram 187 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 4: protein shakes are available at costco and orgain dot com. 188 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 4: If you want to get in on the delicious protein 189 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 4: pack nutrition today, head to Orgain dot com, slash foul 190 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 4: and use the code foul for twenty percent off your order. 191 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 4: Once again, that's O R G A I N dot 192 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 4: com backslash foul for twenty percent off. Make sure you 193 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: use promo code foul so they know FT sent you. 194 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: I want to get back to lou in a minute, 195 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: but first I'm cycling through old Cubs managers we've covered. 196 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: Is there any chance David Ross or Joe Madden get 197 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: into the mix ininnat at all in this hiring cycle anywhere? 198 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: So, so if there was ever a job out there 199 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: that might be a fit for Joe, mm hmm, go on, 200 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: and and that might be the kind of a place 201 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: that would even remotely considering have a having a conversation 202 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: with it. Okay, it might be this one for for 203 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: this reason only now I say all that, because we 204 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: know as soon as Joe is done managing Angel with 205 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: the Angels, he burned every damn bridge in Major League 206 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Baseball with that book of his and his podcast, and 207 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: he's ripping everybody up and down that runs anything at 208 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: all in this team anymore. 209 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: With all due respect that, with all due. 210 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: Respect, I forgot to say that you and I both 211 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: love Joe, and you know how much you know what 212 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: kind of relationship we have. But the only reason that 213 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: he could be considered a fit is because the way 214 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: Lawrence Holmes puts it, like it cause it is superpower. 215 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: Like his superpower as a manager is making young players better, 216 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: is making young players believe that they can win the 217 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: whole damn thing. And maybe he has a shelf life 218 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: with some of his methods. We probably saw a little 219 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: bit of that. But this might be the right kind 220 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: of team at the right time for that. That's the 221 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: only reason I say, but you you'd have to have 222 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: a number of people in the organization by that. Because 223 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: I have Joe interested in it. I do think this 224 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: Joe made a lot of money on his last couple 225 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: of contracts, and for a team that's probably not going 226 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: to pay a lot to the next manager, that could 227 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: also be a fit, because I don't think Joe's looking 228 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: for a payday as much as an opportunity to manage again. 229 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: If if he still feels the way he did the 230 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: last time I talked to him and Rossie, I think 231 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: might be as close to the best fit for this 232 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: job as anybody out there, honestly, because because exactly what 233 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: they're looking for, like they don't want to blow up 234 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: a clubhouse culture that has that where guys are tight 235 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: and guys feel like they're part of something bigger, which 236 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: is which is the thing that David Bell did establish there. 237 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: So they've got that in place, and most of those players, 238 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: especially all these young guys, I mean most of the 239 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: Ross will probably back next year a lot like the Cubs. 240 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: Well I were just change managers and run it out 241 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: there again, but for different reasons. So so we saw 242 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean, Ross kind of has that right, he's got 243 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: he's got a yes, he also doesn't put up with 244 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: ship right, he just he doesn't. And we saw that too, 245 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: and that's what they need desperately. And Ross has the 246 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: credibility as a recent player. He's also a catcher who 247 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: pitchers love to throw to. So if you're trying to 248 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: get the most out of a roster, especially a young roster, uh, 249 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: where you might not be able to go out and 250 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: tweak much from outside the organization as things go, he 251 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: might be the right guy. Uh. Derek Johnson is the 252 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: pitching coach there who's done a good job. I would 253 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: suspect he'll stay. And I think they I think they 254 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: know each other, and they I think they've run across 255 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: each other. I could be wrong, but but knowing the 256 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: two of them, I think they would work really well together. 257 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: And uh, it's just that the personality that team feels 258 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: like a fit for David. For David Rossi's personality and 259 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: the and what the Reds are specifically looking for. I 260 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: think Ross has it. 261 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: You had a great a column angle believe it was 262 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,119 Speaker 2: in spring training. It may have been on Caps website, 263 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: this idea of the great managerial experiment in Chicago, like 264 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: this moneyball question of what. 265 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 3: Is a manager truly worth? 266 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: I mean, seeing the Craig Council era get off to 267 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: such an underwhelming start, what are what are your takeaways 268 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: and what do you think the industry is thinking looking 269 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: at what's happened with the highest paid manager in the 270 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: game in a really sort of like SOCO organization. 271 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: The social organization is the telling phrase there. That's that's 272 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: the point. Look I I I think everybody in the 273 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: game pretty much felt like Jed Hoyer did when he 274 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: went out and spent all that money on Craig Council. 275 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: The Craig Council was, if not the best manager of 276 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: the game, the best available manager in the game. And 277 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: one of the couple of best, right, yeah, and so 278 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: you also you'll also knew he knew the division were 279 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: well and probably the Cubs real well. But what did 280 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: we find out, Jesus christ If you gave him a 281 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: crappy bullpen, he's going to get crappy results at the 282 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: end of the game. She did all the same ship 283 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: that David Ross did all of it. I mean, go 284 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: back and look, he discovered what Christopher Morrell couldn't do. 285 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: He discovered what bullpen pieces he didn't have, and all 286 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: the way along some of the young players that could 287 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: play and couldn't play or weren't ready yet. That that 288 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: ROSSI said, they call him prospects for a reason, right 289 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: And and uh, council had a lot of experience with 290 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: with those kinds of teams in Milwaukee. Maybe they were 291 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: different players, you know, and so and maybe the organization 292 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: was different. Maybe they were giving him differently different levels 293 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: of developed players and and pitching pitching that was ready 294 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: to go. 295 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: So a lot of a lot of ex cub up 296 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: in Milwaukee now too, that kind of cycle through the 297 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 2: Cubs without ever doing anything, just killing it in Milwaukee. 298 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: Now, So what exactly? So and what's gonna wind up happening. 299 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I think if they go let's say, did 300 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: they they did they lose last night or win last 301 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: night in Philly? 302 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: They won in part because the Phillies had clinched the 303 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: night before. Oh yeah, right, you can see those videos 304 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: and know who's gonna win the next. 305 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: Game, So kind of depending on Like, I think if 306 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: they go three and two, they'll finish with an identical 307 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: record did last year. And this sounds right, and so 308 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, the Phillies are a better team, But are 309 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: they gonna roll over as they line up the pitching? 310 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: Who knows? Are the Reds motivated after the change in managers? 311 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: They lost their first game after the manager changed to 312 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: who the hell knows? They're not any better than the Cubs. 313 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: So maybe they go three and two, Maybe they go, 314 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: you know, five and zero. I don't know. But it's 315 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: the same team and it's the same results, and they're 316 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: further out of the playoffs than they were last year 317 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: after getting rid of a guy they said they loved 318 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: a month after they said they loved them to go 319 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: hire the best manager in the world for the highest 320 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: price ever and they get Dick. So this is to 321 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: me what it speaks to. Here's here's why I've always 322 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: wondered about managing. And I think this almost this kind 323 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: of underscores the theory I always had. If you're a 324 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: bad manager, you can make a big difference. You can 325 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: corpedo a team, you can be a team and so 326 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: so and and we've probably seen that in Chicago, yes, 327 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: maybe recently. But anyhow. 328 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: Are you talking about Pedro on the south side. 329 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: I'm talking about you might never go back in some 330 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: Cubs managers for sure, yea. 331 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: So so like I'm not a lunatic my quality season. 332 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: Well I didn't. I wasn't gonna names or anything about it. 333 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: But I think a bad manager can make a difference 334 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: and and so if you make a mistake there. I 335 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of the managers in the game, 336 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: you know today, historically a lot of them fall right 337 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: in the middle, and then some of them get these 338 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: reputations as being great, and some of them prove it, 339 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: prove it like in places over, it's a it's an 340 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: incredibly rare, rare manager that can, uh, I think, make 341 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: a difference to make a good team great or a 342 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: great team a champion. It's tempting to say, Bruce Bochi 343 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: is a guy like that, or Tito Francona is a 344 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: guy like that. Dusty always seemed to get a lot 345 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: out of his guys, sometimes more than you had a 346 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: right to expect. If you go back, a lot of 347 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: people rip Dusty. Go back and look at his record. 348 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Everywhere he went, they won. Everywhere he went, they won 349 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: ninety games plus. So you don't see that everywhere. So 350 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: there's there's guys like that, but there's also guys like that, 351 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: like Joe Torre was an amazing manager, Hall of Fame 352 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: guy in New York. He wasn't before that. He wasn't 353 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: in Saint Louis. True Francona in his first job. Same thing. 354 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: So so when you're when you're trying to climb the 355 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: ladder on good managers to great managers, I think that's 356 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: a fool's errand most of the time, and if you 357 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: spend more money than anybody else does in the history 358 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: of the game to do it, well, I don't know 359 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: what level of fools fool and the fools are. And 360 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: thing that is. 361 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 2: What I want to shift it towards one of your 362 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: I would imagine one of your favorite managers ever. Lou Panella, 363 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: last time I saw you with around the trade deadline, 364 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: and you're working furiously to put this story together. Can 365 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: you explain to our listeners kind of where how that 366 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 2: project came together and where. 367 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 3: Lou is at at this stage of his life. 368 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had Lou in my first first team I 369 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: covered were some of the Mariners teams in the nineties, 370 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: and Lou was a manager. And then then I had 371 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: his first year in Chicago, was my first year in Chicago, 372 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: and we had a few we compared a few notes, 373 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: I'd imagine, but uh, you know he we know a 374 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: few years ago he missed the Hall of Fame by 375 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: a vote, and then the Veterans Committee got together again. 376 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: He was up again this past December and missed it 377 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: again by one vote, and people thought he was going 378 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: to get in. LaRussa said, we all thought this was 379 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: the time he was going to get in. I don't 380 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: know why, and I don't think Larusa was a voter 381 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: this time. I think he was the last time. And 382 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: I tried, I tried to get a hold of lo 383 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: loseman in bad, bad health. He's had some he's had 384 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: some health scares. The last bunch of years. He had 385 00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: a what he called a mild stroke in sixteen seven seven, 386 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: now I guess, yeah, something like that, middle middle of 387 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: the decade. And then he was working for the REDS 388 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: in a in a advisory role and had a more 389 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: serious stroke. And that one affects him a little bit. 390 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: That still affects him to this day. He's recovered mostly 391 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: from him, he's just uh, he doesn't get around quite 392 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: the same and it takes him a little longer to 393 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: pull some thoughts sometimes. And then and then subsequent to that, 394 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: he had cancer and he he went and sought treatment 395 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: in uh procedures and treatment in Turkey because there was 396 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: some deal with the FDA here, not that it wasn't approved, 397 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: but it was something something about the difference between here. 398 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: So he goes to Turkey and he's he's clear of that. 399 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 1: So he's he's on the upside health wise. But Uh, 400 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: I wanted to get with him about missing the Hall 401 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: of Fame. I wanted to get with him about what's 402 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: what's going on with him, like it's just how he 403 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: was doing. Yeah, So uh, I tried in December and 404 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't in a place to talk to anybody. 405 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: I try to get a little later, try to get 406 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: a little later. Finally, the Reds were going through Tampa 407 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: in July and he was willing to make it work. 408 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: I went over to his house for a couple of hours, 409 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: spent some time with him, and met his wife. I 410 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: think I might have met her once briefly years ago. 411 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: But she's a sweetheart. They're they're they're great, and uh, 412 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: we just talked about everything. Then we talked about the 413 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: Reds and Marge shot and the Cubs and and back 414 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: about the Mariners and and he's just now starting to 415 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: get back around again. So I don't know that anybody 416 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: else talked to him since the Hall of Fame thing. 417 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: It really it was emotional for him for for for 418 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: a minute. Yeah yeah, And next time around, next time 419 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: he's eligible for the Hall of Fame, Bochie could be 420 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: on that ballot, Dusty will be on that ballot. Francona 421 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: could be on that ballot. It's awfully tough to get 422 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: in when there's only you gotta get his sixteen voters, 423 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: and you got to get twelve votes, and there's only 424 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: so many spots on the ballots. 425 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: I mean him to me, I just think of the 426 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: main word in the Hall of Fame, like fame and famous, 427 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: and I just think him as as a character and. 428 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 3: Just a larger than life figure. 429 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: It and iconic stadiums, big markets, as a player, as 430 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 2: a manager, being around a lot of Hall of fame, 431 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: you know, personalities, And it takes me back to the 432 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: kind of the beginning of my time covering the Cubs 433 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: and how much I learned from just watching you do 434 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: the job, watching Sully and others do the job. 435 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: And I was having a. 436 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: Few a dope beverages after our workshifts and You've always 437 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: stressed how kind of unique the Cubs beat is. And 438 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: if I remember it right, I mean you've covered the Mariners, Angels, Twins, Cubs, 439 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: and Reds yep. 440 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: Nailed it, yep. 441 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: So like what I feel, I feel like people go 442 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 2: to Wrigley Field or if your Cubs fan, sometimes baseball 443 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 2: so regional and local, you you kind of miss some 444 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: of the, uh, the wider angle, things like what what 445 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: makes covering the Cubs so unique? And why has it 446 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 2: been kind of such a circus? And I don't know, 447 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: is it have they lost some of that, you know, 448 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: whether it's lose personality or the nineteen oh eight that 449 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 2: great chase like where where do you kind of see. 450 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 3: The Cubs now as like kind of an institution? 451 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: Uh ibm. Back in the day Microsoft trying to try 452 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: and to establish unfair monopolies or news sources and and 453 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: not giving a rats ass about the customer. I mean, where, 454 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, where do you want to start? Like honestly, 455 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: you know, you know, one of the things I told 456 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: Louis he asked how some of the people were back 457 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: in Chicago, and I said, low, it hadn't been the 458 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: same since you and Ossie left. And it's really true, man, Yeah, 459 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: And actually that's a microcosm of what's going on in 460 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: the game with the personalities have cycled out. The bigger, 461 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: the bigger personalities that told it like it was, or 462 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: at least the way they saw it. Uh, they don't 463 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: exist anymore. Everybody's more careful how they talk, and it's 464 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: everybody's more media friendly, and media is allowed to ask 465 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: stupid ask questions and get away with it, and then 466 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: the manager will still answer and not make fun of 467 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: them like they used to do. And when I was 468 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: a punk, ask kid asking dumb questions. 469 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 3: No such thing as a dumb question Cord. 470 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, I know, yeah right, okay, so, uh yeah, 471 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: it's in Chicago to me, I mean Chicago always had 472 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: that allure of history handed down for generations people you know, 473 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: take their it was it was it's the thin Roycove 474 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: mystique of it, right, the stuff he used to write about, 475 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, make fun of him, but he always you know, 476 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: but he loved him, but he hated him and he 477 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: and you know, the rooftop stuff was just people on 478 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: lawn shares, the same way people take their shirts off 479 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: and hang them on the basket. Or before they had 480 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: a basket hanging on the ball in the outfield, so 481 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: they put in the basket up that that disappeared long ago. 482 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: And and and when the latest ownership came in, ironically enough, 483 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean they bought from corporation and then and then 484 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: they made it all corporate. They everything became ultra monetized 485 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: and and and and uh, you know, defined for marketing. 486 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: And we've and the Cubs, at the risk of glazing 487 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: over some eyes of anybody that might be listening, I mean, 488 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: the Cubs to me. 489 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 3: Are are. 490 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: They're they're the they amplified tanking in the game. They 491 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: normalized it more, I think more than the Astros did. 492 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: I mean, the Astros were egregious, and the Astros did 493 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: it for way too long, and they effed up a 494 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff along the way before they finally 495 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: got it right. And then they had all these resources 496 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: and player resources, and they and they won all these games. Okay, 497 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: But when the Cubs did it, when the Chicago freaking Cubs, 498 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: with all that money and all those resources that should 499 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: be the Yankees and the Dodgers of the Midwest, some 500 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: version of that decided, no, it's okay. And and to 501 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: put it in context, we know you and I did 502 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: a lot of reporting on it. The sale was so 503 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: leveraged that they literally didn't have enough money in theo 504 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: Epstein's first couple of years, yeah, to flex those types 505 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 1: of resources. So they just tore all the bart just 506 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: sold off everything and and and did you know did 507 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: a Kansas City Royals, Milwaukee Brewers, Cincinnati, you know name 508 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: the small market just completely tanked and uh and the 509 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: game incentivized it. The rules of the game incentivized it. 510 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: And when they were successful as a big market team 511 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: and sold that bill of goods to the fans, that Hey, 512 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: it's okay that we don't win. Now, take a look 513 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: at Chris Bryant at Triple A. Wow, look at our 514 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: prospect rankings. Yeah, look at Mendy al Contra. Holy crap, 515 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: he's one hundred on the prospect. I mean, aren't you excited? 516 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: I know, I know we lost one hundred games, but 517 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: aren't you excited what's coming? And then you know, and 518 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: and and then of course they did it. And then 519 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: of course they jacked all the prices, and then they 520 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: refused to to uh, sort of engage with the luxury 521 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: tax the way say the Dodgers have, uh and even 522 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: in a even in an incremental level of what the 523 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: Dodgers have done to to build on what they had, 524 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: and it just it just deteriorated. And now now they 525 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: don't even go all in ever, and they're still sitting 526 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: at the luxury tax threshold with a bunch of mediocrity. 527 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: And and what it's done is the bottom line on 528 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: this whole thing is it has created a culture in 529 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: the game, a relationship between ownership slash teams and their 530 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: fans of it's okay that we don't try to win 531 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: this year. You know what we're doing because you're smart, 532 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: just like we are. You get it. And by the way, 533 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: the ticket prices are only going up five percent this year. 534 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: But well, Grenna, we're gonna win pretty soon because you 535 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: see that kid in Double A coming. Oh man, he's 536 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: gonna be something special. So hang in there. You know 537 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're smart, and when we win, we're 538 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: gonna win, big boy. But in the meantime, you know, 539 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: it's a process. That's bullshit. That's not what professional sports. 540 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: That's why they're invented. 541 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: There's literally rules about it. 542 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: You have to try to win, and you're charging money 543 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: for this. So I think that bill of goods and 544 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: that that new culture, you can pin a disproportionate amount 545 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: of that on the Cubs for for as a as 546 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: a legacy for that period in Cubdom. 547 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: Well, Gordon, thank you. 548 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 2: I think this will be our first episode will have 549 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: to be labeled with explicit language. 550 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 3: So thank you. No, you're good, You're good. No, you're good. 551 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 3: That's why that's what the warning's there for. 552 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. 553 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: But I look forward to seeing you at Wrigley this weekend. 554 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: I have a feeling the press spot will be hearing 555 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: different versions of that grinding My Gears rant at. 556 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: Points of the series, and definitely owe you a drink 557 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 3: after one of these games this weekend. Appreciate it. 558 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: I'll take you up on that man. All right, good 559 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: talking to you.