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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker and I'm

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Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and body move in because we

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Speaker 2: are talking true crime all the time. And yes, it

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Speaker 2: is Sunday, March twenty ninth, and we have a stack

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Speaker 2: knight of headlines, so welcome to them. So listen. The

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Speaker 2: testimony continues against this anesthesiologist, the husband in Hawaii accused

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Speaker 2: of basically trying to beat his wife to death. The

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Speaker 2: trial is ongoing and this testimony is staggering. Plus Tiger Woods,

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Speaker 2: he had a terrible accident, was arrested, is now, you know,

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Speaker 2: home recovering, but we will definitely unpie that. Plus there's

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Speaker 2: this newly released video I'm hoping you guys saw it

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Speaker 2: of Brian Koberger, the convicted killer of the Idaho students.

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Speaker 2: He is literally seen on surveillance camera just casually at

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Speaker 2: the DMV kind of doing his thing, getting a little

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Speaker 2: exchange of his license plate, and I have to tell

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Speaker 2: you seeing him speak after the murders is nothing short

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Speaker 2: of harrowing. And speaking of harrowing, you know, it's been

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Speaker 2: thirty years since the Menendez brothers, since their infamous conviction,

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Speaker 2: and we have Robert randback. Remember he is the journalist

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Speaker 2: who was there since day one. He's an extraordinary author.

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Speaker 2: He also made a documentary about it. He's also the

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Speaker 2: guy that found that key information that was hopefully going

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Speaker 2: to release them. So we'll get an update there. Thirty years.

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Speaker 2: Can you believe it? My goodness, unbelievable. Well, Court, me

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Speaker 2: and body, we are so glad to be together. So

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Speaker 2: and if you're just joining us from KFI, we're so

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Speaker 2: happy you're here because listen, we are unpacking all of

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Speaker 2: the news of the day, specifically in the world of

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Speaker 2: true crime, and we'd love for you to join the

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Speaker 2: convo eight eight eight three one Crime again eight eight

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Speaker 2: eight three one Crime. And if you miss any of

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Speaker 2: the show, you could always catch us after as a podcast. Ladies,

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Speaker 2: did you have a good weekend? I can't believe it's Sunday.

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Speaker 3: Like I want to put in an official protest with

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Speaker 3: somebody because I cannot believe it was so quick. But

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Speaker 3: I had a great How was your guys?

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Speaker 2: Same? It was really fun. I actually was like out

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Speaker 2: in about I feel like all weekend. It was sunny

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Speaker 2: and bright.

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Speaker 3: I was out yesterday. It was so hot yesterday. Oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, I don't know where you guys it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was an outdoor weekend over here to baseball games, lacrosse.

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Speaker 4: I had a hot date at a local Mexican place.

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Speaker 3: I went to Trader Joe's. I got some bultical seasoning delicious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, we sound like a bunch of old ladies.

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Speaker 2: Come on now, this needs to be a much more weekend.

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Speaker 2: I danced on the sables and I should have been

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Speaker 2: in a visa, and in my head I was so

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Speaker 2: there right right. So where do we begin, Courtney? Should

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Speaker 2: we jump right in? The lot's too unpacked tonight?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I want to get into this Hawaii trial because

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Speaker 4: it's really the testimony that's come out has it's really

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Speaker 4: just been staggering. So Gerhard Koning, he's the anestologist an

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Speaker 4: esthesiologist she mentioned earlier, and he is charged with second

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Speaker 4: degree attempted murder for allegedly attacking his wife Ariel Koning

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Speaker 4: and this happened on a trail in Hawaii back in

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Speaker 4: March of twenty twenty five. So the couple had a strange,

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Speaker 4: a strained marriage, and following what the victim, Ariel, described

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Speaker 4: as an emotional affair she had with a coworker, they

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Speaker 4: went to counseling and they then they traveled from Maui

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Speaker 4: to Wahu to celebrate Ariel Koening's birthday. I had not

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Speaker 4: realized that this trip was coinciding with her birthday day.

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Speaker 4: And the prosecutors alleged that Gerhard Koning pushed his wife

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Speaker 4: Ariel towards a cliff, struck her repeatedly with a rock,

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Speaker 4: and attempted to inject her with syringes, which again as

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Speaker 4: an anesthesiologist.

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Speaker 2: And it was her birthday, it was her birthday. It

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Speaker 2: was now by the way, just you know, to play

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Speaker 2: devil's advocate here he says he's innocent and that it

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Speaker 2: was actually self defense on his part, meaning that Ariel

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Speaker 2: and he had a scuffle of sorts and that she

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Speaker 2: attacked him and he was defending himself. There is very

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Speaker 2: little evidence, if any, to support that. But boy, this

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Speaker 2: testimony is really harrowing.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't the evidence actually point to the opposite of that,

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Speaker 3: and we'll get done. I think we're I think we're

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Speaker 3: going to get to the reason. But like he made

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Speaker 3: a phone call that was it points exactly in the

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Speaker 3: opposite direction. This was definitely, in my opinion, not self defense.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, no, he was asking her to take

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Speaker 2: a selfie, like a picture the side of the cliff,

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Speaker 2: hoping that she'd slip. She didn't. She got a bad feeling.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, trust your gut. She's got a really

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Speaker 2: bad feeling. So she refused, and then he beats her

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Speaker 2: with a rock. And there is evidence. Courtney, correct me

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong to suggest that there's DNA or enough

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Speaker 2: evidence on that rock to suggest that, yeah, he was.

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Speaker 2: He was beating her, and obviously there were bystanders that

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Speaker 2: stepped in, Thank goodness.

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Speaker 4: Yes. And what the defense does say was they really

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Speaker 4: minimize the beating with a rock, which I guess they

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Speaker 4: couldn't negate altogether because there were witnesses. But according to defense,

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Speaker 4: he hit her twice versus the ten times the prosecution alledged.

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Speaker 4: But we got to hear last week from Ariel herself,

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Speaker 4: the victim herself, and in her testimony, she described leading

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Speaker 4: up to the hype, they woke up at their hotel,

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Speaker 4: they had breakfast. The guy who is now the defendant

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Speaker 4: for you know, trying to kill her, gave her a

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Speaker 4: birthday card, calling her Angel Face, and that's how the

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Speaker 4: day started. And then while they're on this hike, you know, Ariel,

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Speaker 4: she just like you said, she got a bad feeling

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Speaker 4: when he was saying go closer and closer to the edge,

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Speaker 4: and then she we actually have a clip. We're gonna

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Speaker 4: we're gonna hear in one second, and here you're gonna

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Speaker 4: hear Ariel recalling what her husband at the time was

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Speaker 4: saying to her during the scuffle.

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Speaker 3: This is before he was hitting her with a rock.

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Speaker 4: But right leading up to it, you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: The defendant was saying something.

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Speaker 5: Can you tell us what you remember he said as

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Speaker 5: he was on top of you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Oh, I mean I'm screaming and he's telling me

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Speaker 6: nobody's nobody's gonna hear you out here, nobody's coming to

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Speaker 6: save you, and I'm saying, like, you can't do this.

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Speaker 7: Everyone knows we're on a hike, they'll know.

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Speaker 6: This wasn't an accident, and our kids will be orphans.

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Speaker 6: You're you're you'll go to jail and I'll be dead,

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Speaker 6: Like you have to stop.

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Speaker 3: And again he's saying, like you're done.

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Speaker 2: We're done with you. We don't need you anymore.

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Speaker 3: You're done, You're done.

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Speaker 6: I had said, like, your mom just sent me a

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Speaker 6: really beautiful text for my birthday, Like your family will

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Speaker 6: be upset if I die. He can't face our kids

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Speaker 6: after this, you know. And he did seem at that

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Speaker 6: point to like calm down a little bit, like it

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Speaker 6: seemed like it took a deep breath and calmed down.

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Speaker 6: And so I had this moment where I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 6: this this is a break, like I can get out,

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Speaker 6: and then he just starts hitting me with her rock.

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Speaker 2: And if you haven't seen the photographs of her after

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Speaker 2: being beaten with the rock so many times, I mean,

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Speaker 2: these bystanders came by, they saw her, they immediately tried

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Speaker 2: to help by giving her some bandages, et cetera. But

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Speaker 2: it looks like she's going to be beaten to death.

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Speaker 2: Like it's very serious for injuries.

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Speaker 3: You know, what's interesting about what she just said, Courtney,

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Speaker 3: is that she said he paused, took a deep breath,

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Speaker 3: and then he's it's at that moment decided to go

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Speaker 3: for it. That's the scary part, right. He paused, He

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Speaker 3: took a deep breath, and she thought, Okay, this is

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Speaker 3: my chance to get away because maybe he's reconsidering his

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Speaker 3: actions now. He was doubling down on them, just in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, but he was doubling down on them. That

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Speaker 3: deep breath in that moment really is scary.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that the truth? That was really astute.

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Speaker 4: It's a great observation, no, I mean, and it's also

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Speaker 4: you know, premeditation. So the testimony continued with I'm an

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Speaker 4: officer named Kevin Chun, and he testified that he was

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Speaker 4: there on the scene. He got statements from Ariel Koenig

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Speaker 4: and other witnesses and testified that Ariel was bloodied and disoriented.

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Speaker 4: And also there's bodycam footage that officer Chun testified about

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Speaker 4: and arriving at the scene, apparently you can see that

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Speaker 4: Ariel is weak, she's being assisted by other hikers. And

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Speaker 4: then came the forensics. This was on Thursday, which you

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Speaker 4: guys hinted at. So on Thursday, forensic scientist Michelle Morin

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Speaker 4: testified that DNA from the blood stained area of the

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Speaker 4: rock was consistent with one female individual and that female

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Speaker 4: aerial coding. So there's that. But then that the jurors

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Speaker 4: actually examined the bloody clothing that was worn allegedly by

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Speaker 4: the defendant Gerhart, and forensic analysis indicated that the blood

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Speaker 4: on his shirt belonged to his wife Ariel as well.

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Speaker 3: Wow, so all the blood was hers, nothing from him? Correct, Well,

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Speaker 3: this is true crime tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. We are

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Speaker 3: right in the middle of talking about this anesthesiologist trial.

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Speaker 3: He tried to kill his nuclear engineering wife allegedly, and

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Speaker 3: we want to hear from you. Download the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: Look for True Crime Tonight, click the little microphone and

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Speaker 3: leave us a talk back in Boom. You'll be on

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Speaker 3: the show. Listen if you got a little social anxiety

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Speaker 3: like me and you don't want to call in, I

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Speaker 3: get it, but I got you. Download the app. Courtney.

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Speaker 4: There was Uh.

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Speaker 3: He said it was in self defense, right. His defense

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Speaker 3: is that she was going on and on about this

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Speaker 3: lover she had and this was a self defense act.

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Speaker 2: But by the way, not a lover. There was no lover.

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Speaker 2: It was literally they he had found sexy texts and

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Speaker 2: there were something air quotes inappropriate text wise on her phone,

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Speaker 2: just to make that distinction, because it wasn't as if

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Speaker 2: she was having a full blown.

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Speaker 3: An emotional affair, right correct, right, So, but there's nothing

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Speaker 3: from him, she there's no scratches on him, there's nothing

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Speaker 3: to bolster his idea that there is some sort of

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Speaker 3: self defense mechanism here. It's crazy to me.

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Speaker 4: Right And in Ariel's testimony, she said that while she

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Speaker 4: was screaming for help and fighting back, she was biting,

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Speaker 4: she was scratching, she was squeezing his testicles.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, Oh yeah, she was for her life and

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Speaker 2: she was getting lads too, which is again really smart

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Speaker 2: even to have the wherewithal to stay sane or lucid

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Speaker 2: enough that you could actually convince your husband who's attacking

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Speaker 2: you at this point by reminding him that he has

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Speaker 2: loved ones and that she'll be missed and about their children.

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Speaker 2: It's like he to your point, body or just really

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Speaker 2: like kind of snapped out of it for a second

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Speaker 2: and then rekicked in. I think goodness, he's allegedly allegedly

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Speaker 2: allegedly if this is what he's done, think goodness is

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Speaker 2: off the street, and that she is safe from this monster.

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Speaker 2: You know again she might have been having a sixth

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Speaker 2: sense that this relationship was coming to an end. You

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Speaker 2: don't really think, oh yeah, because he's going to kill

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Speaker 2: me now. And that's a real leap, right, So this

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Speaker 2: is clearly a dangerous guy, and thank god she's okay,

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Speaker 2: and she had the strength to testify against him.

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Speaker 4: Right, absolutely so on cross examination, just because you know,

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Speaker 4: important to give both sides. So under cross the defense

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Speaker 4: attorney Thomas take he emphasized the limits of forensic evidence, okay,

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Speaker 4: And through that he elicited testimony that one DNA cannot

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Speaker 4: tell us how the blood got there, and two DNA

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Speaker 4: cannot tell us who may have started an altercation.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, that's correct. Obvious confess to his son, isn't there?

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Speaker 2: Some fact revealed and called his son and confessed.

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Speaker 4: So this will be testimony on Tuesday, and I'm so

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Speaker 4: interested to see it, and I also I feel so

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Speaker 4: bad for this kid. It's the defendant's nineteen year old

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Speaker 4: son from a previous relationship, and he did a Gerhart

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Speaker 4: Koenig allegedly did confess to his son via FaceTime after

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Speaker 4: the attack and said that he tried to kill Ariel

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Speaker 4: because he believes she was cheating, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, he great father of the year was dump that

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Speaker 2: on my kid. Let's dump a confession to you know,

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Speaker 2: potential murder on my on my child. How wonderful. So

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Speaker 2: now he gets to come and testify against his own dad. Brutal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's when court. The court will resume on Tuesdays,

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Speaker 4: so we'll definitely follow what goes on there. But I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I don't feel like the defense has too

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Speaker 4: much to stand on.

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Speaker 3: I don't either, especially since he tried to run away, right,

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Speaker 3: So the officer said that she or he, I'm not sure,

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Speaker 3: spotted blood on his shirt and chased him into a

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Speaker 3: grassy area where a struggle you know, ensued before he

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Speaker 3: got arrested. He tried to run away.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody that is you.

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Speaker 3: Know, been attacked or you know, was just attacked by

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Speaker 3: his wife. What they're not running away from the scene, right.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how that's gonna look. But I don't

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Speaker 3: think that's gonna look good to the jury.

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Speaker 4: I really know, a scuffle with a police officer and

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Speaker 4: like you said, running away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's not in blood.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard the testimony of the bystanders.

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Speaker 2: The two women that stopped by, who actually were you

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Speaker 2: clever enough and brave enough to really step in on

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Speaker 2: what could have been a very dangerous situation even for them,

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Speaker 2: and you know they were scared also, And their first

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Speaker 2: hand account really does support Ariel's story that she was

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Speaker 2: really nearing death, like this was the plan. And although

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Speaker 2: his syringes were never found at the scene of the crime,

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Speaker 2: it was alleged that he had some sort of a

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Speaker 2: drug in syringes in his back pockets, which in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: would show premeditation if in fact that's true.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, and I think the defense is absolutely doubling

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Speaker 4: down that they weren't found at the scene. But again,

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Speaker 4: the scene is up at a really steep cliff and

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Speaker 4: things can follow over cliffs.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's true.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable, Yeah, because I think he was going to pose

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Speaker 3: for the camera syringer. She was going to pass out

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Speaker 3: and let her just fall down the cliff, right, I mean,

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Speaker 3: but we need those syringes. Where are those syringes? I

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Speaker 3: know that's key, don't you guys think? Y? I want

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Speaker 3: to know what you guys think. Give us a call.

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Speaker 3: Eight and eight thirty one, crime coming up next, Tiger

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Speaker 3: Woods under arrest after a violent crash, plus the latest

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Speaker 3: with the shooting at Rihanna's house Brian Cobergrand camera days

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Speaker 3: after the murders, Calm at the DMV. Keep it here

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Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in. And just to set

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Speaker 2: the stage, of course, we have producer Taha in the

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Speaker 2: hot seat keeping us all in line, and Sam and

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Speaker 2: Adam are in the control room waiting for your call.

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Speaker 2: If you want to jump in and join the convo

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Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime, or you can always

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Speaker 2: leave us a talk back. So make sure you stay

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Speaker 2: with us because we have a great guest. Robert rand

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Speaker 2: is back with us again. He's the journalist that was

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Speaker 2: with the Menendez brothers since day one. He knows them well,

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Speaker 2: he's seen them recently. In fact, he's the person that

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Speaker 2: actually discovered some really crucial new information. Remember that letter

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Speaker 2: that they found from yesteryear that corroborated their story of

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Speaker 2: sexual abuse. Well, he's the one that has that letter,

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Speaker 2: so so much of that to unpack yeah, thirty years later,

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Speaker 2: can you believe it? Since they've been convicted, So that's

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Speaker 2: later in the show. And then also lots to get

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Speaker 2: to Brian Coburger. We have surveillance video of him just

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Speaker 2: an average Joe going a DMV just days after murdering

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Speaker 2: four people. And then also new developments Tiger Woods, Rihanna Courtney.

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Speaker 2: Where should we begin with Tiger Woods? How upsetting?

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Speaker 4: How upsetting? And his box shot is everywhere now, So yeah,

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Speaker 4: Tiger Woods. We all know him, fifty year old golf legend,

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Speaker 4: and he was arrested on Friday for DUI, also with

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Speaker 4: property damage. So what appears to have happened was he

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Speaker 4: flipped his land Rover. This happened in Jupiter Island, Florida,

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Speaker 4: and apparently he was trying to overtake a trailer truck

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Speaker 4: and that made it and it was a really narrow

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Speaker 4: road with no shoulders and he was trying to go

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Speaker 4: his car clipped and then flipped over. Thankfully nobody was injured.

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Speaker 4: But Tiger Wood, he has a history of some pretty

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Speaker 4: serious car accidents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like what his third or fourth one,

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Speaker 3: isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Four odds.

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Speaker 2: He's also approaching a really big milestone where he was

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Speaker 2: potentially going to make this big comeback. You would have

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Speaker 2: to assume maybe the pressure just even of that might

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Speaker 2: who knows, cause Pusey to stress. But it sounds like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: things are a little tough behind the scenes for Tiger

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Speaker 2: and what a shame. Yeah, it's the help he needs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So this event happened. It was a little

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Speaker 4: before two pm and.

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Speaker 3: It was the middle of the day.

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Speaker 2: It was just it was like the middle of the day, afternoon.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, okay, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 4: And also this could have really resulted in multiple injuries

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Speaker 4: because apparently when he clipped the trailer, you know, not

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Speaker 4: only did his car roll over, but it forced the

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Speaker 4: pickup driver off the road. Oh yeah, like that could

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Speaker 4: be deadly, absolutely, Stephanie. And so the sheriff described Tiger

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Speaker 4: Woods as lethargic and exhibiting signs of impairment. Now, he

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Speaker 4: passed the breathalyzer, but he did refuse a your analysis,

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Speaker 4: so authorities couldn't test for any other substances.

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Speaker 3: So at a just for clarification, the breathalyzer is only

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Speaker 3: for like alcohol, right, so they could test him if

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Speaker 3: he was on like, you know, on the year. You know,

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Speaker 3: I think, like, okay, gotcha, all right?

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Speaker 4: Anything else important to note? There were no drugs, there

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Speaker 4: was no alcohol in the vehicle, and Tiger Woods was

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Speaker 4: taken to the Martin County Jail, not placed in the

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Speaker 4: general population, and he bonds it out the same day.

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Speaker 2: But I gotta tell you what is up with celebrities

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Speaker 2: and not taking an uber. I mean, it is so

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Speaker 2: easy now to not have to drive. I actually find

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Speaker 2: it pretty inexcusable at this point. Yeah, you know, Tiger,

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Speaker 2: You've been through it one too many times. He's had

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Speaker 2: multiple injuries, didn't He almost have his leg brushed in

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Speaker 2: the last accident and has been recovering this entire time. Enough,

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Speaker 2: let's take the keys away from Tiger. Tiger, you can

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Speaker 2: just have a limousine driver or a chauffeur. At this point,

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Speaker 2: it's so inexcusable. That could really be dangerous for somebody else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I will never understand that either. If I honestly,

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Speaker 4: if I had a mountain of cash, which he does,

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Speaker 4: that's the first thing I would get. It just seems

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Speaker 4: so great you never have to you know, yes, after

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Speaker 4: even parking anyway. But you were right in pointing out

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Speaker 4: that just days before this crash, Tiger Woods competed in

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Speaker 4: the TGL Finals and that was this first event and

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Speaker 4: over a year with his Jupiter Links Golf Club team.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know, Stephanie, if it was pressure of

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Speaker 4: just getting back in the game.

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Speaker 2: I find him so interesting. You know, back in the

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Speaker 2: day we heard all of those stories how his father

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Speaker 2: was sort of this you know, mega father, right, like

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Speaker 2: if Chris Jenner was a momager to the Kardashians. Tiger

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Speaker 2: Woods's father, I'm sure there's a name for it was

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Speaker 2: super intense.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: They would play like special music while he slept, and

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Speaker 2: he was forever being trained and probably likely stole from

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Speaker 2: like a little stolen from a Yeah, he didn't really

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Speaker 2: have much of a childhood, right, so that was maybe

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Speaker 2: stolen from him. And you really do see that play

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Speaker 2: out in adults at this point, you know, Tiger Chase,

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Speaker 2: the Dragon still down, the same fight. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I feel like, be careful what you wish for. All

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Speaker 2: the money in the world, all the success in the world,

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Speaker 2: so early, it really kind of breaks my heart.

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Speaker 4: Well, and his past ones two thousand and nine was

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Speaker 4: a Florida crash and he was cited for careless driving

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Speaker 4: and that, if I'm not mistaken, Yeah it was. It

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Speaker 4: was that infamous Thanksgiving night in two thousand and nine

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Speaker 4: and Tiger Woods and his wife at the time, Ellen Nordegren,

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Speaker 4: they were having a huge fight when she had found

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Speaker 4: if you guys remember, Tiger related.

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Speaker 2: On her like eighty times all something in couragious with everyone.

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Speaker 2: I remember that, literally everyone. He literally cheated on her,

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Speaker 2: seemingly with everyone.

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Speaker 4: Right, So there was that incident, and then also twenty

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Speaker 4: seventeen there was a dui he pled guilty to reckless driving.

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Speaker 4: And then twenty twenty one Los Angeles another all over crash,

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Speaker 4: this time serious leg injuries and there were no charges.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, the history is not great.

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Speaker 3: Does he drive his own golf cart around the golf course?

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Speaker 3: He doesn't, doesn't He needs to show up every He

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Speaker 3: needs to be carrying around like a little bit for

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Speaker 3: Tiger Wood. My point is, though, if he doesn't even

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Speaker 3: drive his own golf court, like, what is the big

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Speaker 3: deal about calling an uber? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: It's not a control. You know, if you're not even

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Speaker 3: driving a golf cart, what are you doing? Stop it?

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Speaker 2: You're endangering others. We're seeing it a lot. Is dating a.

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Speaker 3: Trump Junior's ex wife or something? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Okay,

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Speaker 3: and she's not pleased. No, No, I'm sure she's not.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure she's not. Wow. Well this is true crime tonight.

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Speaker 3: We're on iHeartRadio. I'm body moving and I'm here with

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Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and we want to hear

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Speaker 3: from you. So give us a call eighty eight thirty

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Speaker 3: one crime, or you use the iHeartRadio app and give

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Speaker 3: us a little talkback. What else do you have?

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Speaker 2: Court And just one last thing even before we move on,

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Speaker 2: what do you guys think about the publicity that these

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Speaker 2: duy's of celebrities gets. Because part of me does feel

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Speaker 2: badly about it, and then the other side is like,

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Speaker 2: thank god we're seeing it because I think people can

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Speaker 2: learn what not to do. We saw it with Justin

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Speaker 2: Timberlake his arrest from you know several years ago, you know,

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Speaker 2: back in the Hampton's you know why that Oof, that

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Speaker 2: was a tough one. Oh sorry, Reese, that was a

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Speaker 2: tough one. Yeah. It makes me feel bad for them.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake, for example, really tried very hard to not

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Speaker 2: have the whole thing released. In fact, they ultimately just

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Speaker 2: released excerpts or a small section of it, and even

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Speaker 2: that small section was not great. But it is a

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Speaker 2: bit of a working It's like kind of a working

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Speaker 2: example of what not to do in those situations. Take

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Speaker 2: an uber, please right listen. The memes of Justin Timberleak

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Speaker 2: like in jail have been hilarious, though I have to

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Speaker 2: tell you so that that that's a word of warning

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Speaker 2: to all celebrities. You're already to be made fun of

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Speaker 2: on the internet relentlessly if you get caught relentlessly. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the memes have been great. I think if you get

431
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: a d U I you need to go and sort

432
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: of sit in what is it? Mothers against mad that

433
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: you should be participating with someone who's lost a loved

434
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: one too drunk driving?

435
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 3: Grandpa?

436
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: You know that might I'm so sorry, my grandpa.

437
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 3: Mm hmm yep, my grandpa, My grandpa, pa.

438
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 4: You know, there really is no excuse. I actually from

439
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: from when I was in high school, I volunteered for

440
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 4: this thing called Save Fries, and it was you would

441
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 4: call and get a ride wherever you were. You'd get

442
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 4: picked up and you'd get dropped off no questions. I

443
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,719
Speaker 4: have never I have never had more than one glass

444
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 4: of wine with a meal and driven. And this comes

445
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 4: from a real party girl for a long time. So

446
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 4: there's no there's just no excuse.

447
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: Well, it's just it's so easy nowadays. I mean it's

448
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: so easy. So yeah, there, you're right, and especially for

449
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 3: somebody of wealth and means right, it doesn't. It's nothing

450
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: to Colin uber Or. I mean, get a driver. You

451
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: can afford a driver if you know you're going to

452
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: have some jack, you know, some arnold Palmer's at lunch

453
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: at two o'clock and get day drunk, whatever you're gonna do. Okay,

454
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 3: then just Colin uber it's not a big deal.

455
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: You're here. You're here on that Rihanna situation too.

456
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: I was going to say, Okay, So the woman who's

457
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: accused of shooting at Rihanna's mansion in Los Angeles has

458
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 4: happened back on March eighth. She's pleaded not guilty in court,

459
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 4: and listen, her charges are big. The woman's name is

460
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: Evanna Lazette Ortiz, and she has a tempted murder and

461
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: multiple other charges. She fired about twenty rounds from an

462
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 4: Air fifteen style semi automatic rifle.

463
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

464
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like there's like if you see the front

465
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: of Rihanna and Asap Rocky's home, I mean it's like

466
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: covered in bullets. And they had like an airstream sort

467
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: of within the gates, and there's bullets in that as well.

468
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 2: And they weren't physically in the airstream when they were

469
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: in the airstream. Yes, yes, yes, very very serious.

470
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, what now were they in the airstream?

471
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 3: I want to know that.

472
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: I was curious about that too, actually not to get

473
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: not to get lost in the side tracked, but they

474
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: were curious. The house looked really big and really nice.

475
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: They were getting some work done. Maybe they were getting

476
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: recording in the airstream. Maybe I was thinking maybe it

477
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: was like a little recording studio.

478
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: In a like a mobile studio or something.

479
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that means that Grehanna has me music dropping sometime,

480
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: because we haven't gotten an album from her in four years.

481
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: I have nothing to say that is based in truth

482
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: on that, but that's in my head.

483
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 3: At least.

484
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 8: I thought it might have to play space for their kids,

485
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 8: because they have little kids, and I think someone else

486
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 8: has said before they had an airstream and they would

487
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 8: send their kids out there to play, so maybe that

488
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 8: could be its rights.

489
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: So fun to be a kid and having an airstream

490
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: to go play house.

491
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 8: Okay, treehouse if you will, I don't know, but very modern.

492
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 9: But yeah.

493
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: After this massive, you know, twenty round shooting, Evanna Ortiz,

494
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: she fled the scene and was captured eight miles away.

495
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 4: She was at a shopping center in Sherman Oaks. She

496
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 4: was arrested alone, but she did have additional rounds as

497
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: well as a wig allegedly intended to use as a disguise.

498
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: Oh, this one's a little off a rocker because she's

499
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: seen any of her social media posts. She's literally talking

500
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: about Rihanna as if there's some sort of tight relationship

501
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: and there doesn't appear like.

502
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: They have some kind of beef. Like she's like, she's

503
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: so close to Rihanna and they're having this beef. It's

504
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 3: so bizarre, so bizarre. She's trying to put herself in

505
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: that same bubble as Rihanna. Like, get real.

506
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: It's tough though, because what do you do with authorities,

507
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: because we know in Los Angeles it's really difficult to

508
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: have somebody or even police really be proactive in a

509
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: scenario like this, even though this woman has been on

510
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: social media, you know, pretty much just basically saying she's

511
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: going to come for her at some point, I'm paraphrasing

512
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: at that, what do you do? Because you know, really

513
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: law enforcement can't do too much until there is something physical.

514
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: And at the same time, this is pretty thank god,

515
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: this is pretty extreme. Thank god there was no injuries.

516
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: She could have been killed. Multiple people could have been killed.

517
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: Rihanna asap Rocky.

518
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: There three kids, including their newborn Ann, Rihanna's mother, staff,

519
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: and two neighboring residents. You guys, all of them were

520
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 4: named as victims in this filing. Wow, because this could

521
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 4: have I mean, it was not to say lucky, but

522
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 4: twenty twenty rounds from an AR fifteen. Thank god, nobody

523
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 4: was hurt in this.

524
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: An AR fifteen. Isn't that what the joker used? And

525
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: everyone's looking at me blankly. I think it's not, I think,

526
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: but it's like that big you know, this is like

527
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: I'm here to do business, right, That's what.

528
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 4: I'm a doing. Yeah. So she's facing ten felony counts,

529
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 4: one count per person, and three felony counts of shooting

530
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: at an occupied dwelling or camper and listen, child is

531
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: absolutely not started yet. But if convicted on all these counts,

532
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 4: this woman, Evana or Tez, faces life in prison.

533
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: Oh wow, she deserves to.

534
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: Be in prison for life if she has done this,

535
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: and it seems that it's impossible to prove that she hasn't.

536
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: I think they have a lot against her. And again,

537
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: hope she gets to help.

538
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 9: M hm wow.

539
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's going to be a preliminary hearing on April eighth,

540
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: and at that point evidence will be reviewed and it

541
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: will then be determined if the case proceeds to trial.

542
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: Right, So, a prelim is kind of like a mini trial.

543
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: They basically are showing do we have enough to actually

544
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: try this person? And usually there's a jury on a

545
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: preliminary at a preliminary hearing, and they'll say yes or no,

546
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: like there'll be some kind of indictment and then they'll

547
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 3: proceed for us with a formal hearing to try her.

548
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: So it's going to be interesting.

549
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: So listen, there has been this new video footage released

550
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: a Brian Koberger after the murders. The murders in Idaho

551
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: of four incredible college students that he confessed to. He

552
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: took a plea deal and here we are seeing this

553
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: new video footage that I've never seen before, and he

554
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: seems so scary at ease that it's it's kind of troubling.

555
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: It's haunted my sleep a little bit, to be honest,

556
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: I've been dying to talk to you about it. Where

557
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: do you want to begin? So, Body, what do you think?

558
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: I think that we want to go to a talk back.

559
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 7: Oh, let's do hatrear crime tonight. Family. I was listening

560
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 7: to last night's podcast and Body was definitely selling herself

561
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 7: short at the end. She is a hero in my eyes,

562
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 7: not only for what she's doing now and what she

563
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 7: continues to do. But I want to take you back

564
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 7: to twenty twelve. Everybody in Canada was terrified to get

565
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 7: the mail, and she can tell you why. I definitely

566
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 7: think you need to cover the Luca magnota case as

567
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 7: you have an in house resident expert to help you.

568
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: As soon as she said House, I know she was

569
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: from Canada. Yeah, so sweet though, that is thank you

570
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: so much, that's very kind of you, and my love

571
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: to you as well. Yeah, we have talked about Luca

572
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: on the show before. I think I did early on,

573
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: I think we did a rundown of the case. But yeah,

574
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: the Luca Magnotic case. Luca was there was a person

575
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: killing kittens online right and didn't know who it was.

576
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: A bunch of people were really kind of outraged by that.

577
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: Started digging into it. He was He identified himself actually,

578
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: and we started contacting the police. They were kind of like, oh,

579
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: he doesn't live at the address anymore. We went there

580
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 3: and they said he moved to Russia. And then we

581
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: were like, no, he didn't move to Russia. He's actually Montreal.

582
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: Now Montreal was like cats whatever, And he started threatening

583
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 3: to kill people online. We were ramping it up with

584
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 3: the police. They were kind of like, you know, what

585
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: are you supposed to do? And then he filmed himself dismembering, killing,

586
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: and dismember a student from China who was living in Canada.

587
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 3: He was going to uh in Montreal and that was

588
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: jun Lyn, and he dismembered him and mailed the body

589
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: parts to a school in Vancouver. And then the leader

590
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 3: of the i think the Liberal Party, basically the Prime

591
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: Minister of Canada's office and uh, that's the story.

592
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: Remember this is documented in the Netflix documentary Don't f

593
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: with Kats. That body is, you know, sort of the

594
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: lead sleuth in and really was incredibly actionable against this monster.

595
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I wish. I mean, you're very kind, Stephanie,

596
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: and I do appreciate it, But a success in this

597
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: would have been the police knocking on his door getting

598
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: him some help. I mean, because there were clearly, clearly

599
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: problems that he was exhibiting, you know, very publicly, and

600
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: nobody was paying attention. And you know, John Gray and

601
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 3: I and you know, who's my partner in the documentary,

602
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: we felt we were like we were screaming at the

603
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 3: top of our lungs and nobody was listening, and so oftentimes,

604
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: like it really traumatized me because like oftentimes now when

605
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: I know something to be true and nobody will listen

606
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: to me, I kind of shut down a little bit,

607
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 3: you know, like it's just reminiscent of all that. But yeah,

608
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: it was. It was a crazy time. It happened in

609
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 3: twenty twelve. We started with it in twenty ten, and

610
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: it took a long time.

611
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: Wow.

612
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it took a very long time because he was

613
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: killing cats for two years on and filming it and

614
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: you know, of course that's a precursor. We all know that,

615
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 3: right that harm to animals, you know, is a precursor

616
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 3: for more violent behavior. In fact, all the discussions I

617
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: do at crime con in the past have been about

618
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 3: that of you know, the precursor just some more violent behavior,

619
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: domestic violence obviously, harming animals obviously, and those things when,

620
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: especially when they're combined, they really shouldn't be ignored. And

621
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: so all we really wanted was somebody to knock on

622
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 3: his door, you know, we didn't we didn't necessarily want

623
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 3: him arrested or thrown in jail or he needed help,

624
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: he needed he needed help. And so, yeah, that's the

625
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: documentary Don't Have with Cats. It's on Netflix. We also

626
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 3: did a documentary for the CBC. It's called Hunting Mignata. Yeah,

627
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: that's about it.

628
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where I first was introduced to bodies watching

629
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: on the Netflix documentary and it was just so incredibly moving.

630
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, that is a case that's unforgettable, and I

631
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: can only imagine how hard it must have been to

632
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: be so close to it.

633
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just.

634
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 4: Your sticktuitiveness for for years staying on, especially when you

635
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 4: were you know, at times not being listened to by

636
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 4: It's yeah, that's a long time and a valiant effort. Yeah.

637
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: I don't ever give up. That's one thing about me

638
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: is once I get like hyper focused on something, I

639
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 3: don't give up. It's uh, You're not going to see

640
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 3: the last of me, basically unfortunately.

641
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: And that's what we love about you.

642
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 4: But thank you for the talk about that.

643
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: You're very kind and I hope you have comfort in

644
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 3: getting your mail now at least. So let's do another talkback.

645
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 10: Hi, True Crime Teams.

646
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 11: This is actually from Maine. I just wanted to say

647
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 11: that I really appreciated the conversation that you guys were

648
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 11: having around the meta lawsuits that are happening right now

649
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 11: and what that might mean, the flippery slope that you

650
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 11: were talking about, as well as how difficult it can

651
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 11: be to keep kids away from those things. And I

652
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 11: really felt both Body and Stephanie's side of this having kids. Stephanie,

653
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 11: I totally understand where you're coming from with the you know,

654
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 11: how do we pull it back now with so many kids.

655
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 10: Work already in it?

656
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 11: And then Body, I completely agree with you that we

657
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 11: just shouldn't start it in the first place, but we

658
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 11: have to figure out how to balance that now. And luckily,

659
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 11: my kids during the pandemic weren't old enough to be

660
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 11: on social media, so that didn't create a problem. But

661
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 11: now my thirteen year old has a phone, but she

662
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 11: is not allowed for social media, and she has just

663
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 11: her Cloud email to be able to text friends and family,

664
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 11: but she cannot have social media. And we have never

665
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 11: even discussed if there will be a time when she can,

666
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 11: because we just are not comfortable with it. And I'm

667
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 11: finding more and more of her friends and kids her age,

668
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 11: our parents are making that same decision.

669
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: Takes a village, and it's good.

670
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 9: It is, you know.

671
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 3: I did some research over the weekend about this whole subject,

672
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: because it is.

673
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 4: It is.

674
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: It is.

675
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: It's hard, right, and I can't imagine how hard it

676
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: is for parents, especially if you know all their friends

677
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: are online. You're you're basically you're ostracizing your kid. Nobody

678
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: wants to do that, right, Nobody wants their kid to

679
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: be the only one not included in something. Right. Do

680
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 3: you know that you only need for per Facebook and

681
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 3: this is Facebook specifically and Instagram as well meta You

682
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: only need to be thirteen to sign the end user

683
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: license Agreement yes, that needs a change.

684
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: That needs to change that the aimum, it's even a

685
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: signal to the world that that's inappropriate. And it's funny

686
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: because I did a little research too. It's so funny

687
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: you and I because I was really I come to

688
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: the reality of both things can be true. Like one,

689
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: I agree both you have to kind of kind of

690
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: rethink and recalibrate a little bit. And the other is, listen, everybody,

691
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: the proof is in the pudding. They are not looking

692
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: out for us. There is not a single person seemingly

693
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 2: at the top at these tech places that really have

694
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 2: our best interests in mind. In fact, we're seeing the

695
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: proof that they're putting in addictive qualities. This is not

696
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: even just about kids. We're all getting influenced by these

697
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: algorithms as well, and it's pretty sickening that the goal

698
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: here is to either take our jobs, which I keep

699
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 2: hearing everybody and their brother talking about they're taking our jobs.

700
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: They're depressing our kids, They're making it so that we're

701
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: all eating up sort of negative toxic algorithms. Potentially what

702
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: they have is because of us. Like if we all

703
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: start shutting down our social media, that would be a

704
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: real bummer for their bank accounts, and I feel like

705
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: that's the only thing that's going to count at this point.

706
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: It's sad unless we all start putting happy things on

707
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: social media, If we know the addictive quality is there,

708
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: and we start sharing positive or authentic pieces of information,

709
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: maybe that's the frequency that we all need to be in.

710
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: But right now it just seems like it's a sloth

711
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: of negativity and kind of bringing the party down. And

712
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is, but these are

713
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: small steps in the right direction at the bare minimum.

714
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 3: Listen with people like clab a car. Do you guys

715
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 3: n who this classical guy is?

716
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 12: Yes?

717
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: No, this maxing guy I'm kicking. Oh yes, okay, thank you.

718
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 3: I couldn't live with whatever his name is. Say it again, Adam,

719
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: it's a clavicular There we go, millions and millions of followers,

720
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: the young men specifically looking up to him. He's young himself,

721
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: and he's on kick all day, hitting themself in the

722
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: face with a hammer and injecting peptides into his skin

723
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: to try to look smax. I just don't think that

724
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 3: a thirteen or fourteen year old young man needs to

725
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 3: look at people like that as role models, and it's

726
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: dangerous for your children to be online. And I mean,

727
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 3: I know every parent loves their kids. I know, you

728
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: guys do. I mean, I know, And it's just mind

729
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: boggling to me that people are like, Okay, here's this

730
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: twelve hundred dollars device, go have fun, and it's.

731
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Just like what, Y try not to look, not to

732
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 2: be influenced. It literally is starting to feel like handing

733
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: our kids a bit of a loaded gun or a

734
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: pack of smokes. Right, We're like, hey, you're of age,

735
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: you're thirteen, you can sign a user's agreement. Here are

736
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: some mar blows, go smoke away, and we know we

737
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that. I struggle, though. It's a tough one.

738
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: It's a tough one. I'm mad about it though. I'm

739
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: really mad, and I think we all have to start

740
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: really looking out for each other on this one too,

741
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: and kicking the things out of the club that really

742
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: should not be there, like this guy. Did you guys

743
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: see the doc on is is it Netflix? The ooh

744
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: about the Manosphere?

745
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: I watched it this weekend. It's I believe it's called

746
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: the Manosphere. It's by this great British documentary maker and

747
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 4: it goes in and it is deplorable. You see these

748
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 4: guys in the manosphere who are like, yeah, you know,

749
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 4: women are trash and have your woman do this? And

750
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 4: it's all to get money, of course, and they have.

751
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 4: And you see them walking down the streets and it's

752
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 4: twelve and thirteen and four fourteen year old boys, Yeah,

753
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 4: high fiving and you're great and the looks maxing. I'm

754
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: actually glad that's getting attention now because because I feel

755
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 4: like people hadn't known about it. I hadn't known about

756
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: it until last year, really, and.

757
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: We did in Cells right the podcast right, Yes, in.

758
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: Cells is the pre cast that we made that you

759
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: can also download on your iHeartRadio app. That really is

760
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: a deep dive into all scary things in cells from

761
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: if you've seen the movie Adolescence that's based on an

762
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 2: in cell. So yeah, dark web, but very real, real

763
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: for all of.

764
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: It, and it's and it's well and stuff you make.

765
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: You said something so important to you said, dark Web

766
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: very scary, right, it's not, though, this is just the

767
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: of the mainstream apps that your kids are downloading, like

768
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: they don't have to VPN and go through all these

769
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 3: secret tunnels to get to these these sites. They're like

770
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 3: they're apps that they're already on. And so you know

771
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 3: the IRL streaming with the looks maxing and whatnot. That's

772
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: just one corner of the Internet that's totally available to

773
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 3: every child right now. But it is a gigantic It

774
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 3: is a gigantic corner. It is a huge you know,

775
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of views. I mean, it's beyond and

776
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 3: it's obsessive and when you read the comments, it's very

777
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 3: black pilled. Right, it's very black pilled. It's very young,

778
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: but it's very young. And he's surrounded by young girls.

779
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 3: One was seventeen. I watched today her getting peptides injected

780
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: into her cheeks. She's seventeen years old by him, and

781
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 3: he's like, I don't worry about it. She's like, oh,

782
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: i'm bleeding. I think it went I think it went

783
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 3: through my cheeks. And he's like, eh, you know, and

784
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 3: everyone in the in the comments are you know, being

785
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 3: very disgusting to her. She's seventeen years old.

786
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 9: Body, can you can you tell what black piled is?

787
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 9: For people who may not know what that term.

788
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 3: Is, they're nihilistic, I guess is the best term A

789
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: lot of times too. You'll see they say things just

790
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 3: for shock value. I guess that's that's the one I

791
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 3: have in my head right now.

792
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would agree. It's nihilism. It's the world is dark.

793
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 4: You might as well hate everybody. But the secret sauce

794
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 4: to these men who are like running the manosphere is

795
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 4: if you give me, you know, say, forty nine dollars

796
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 4: a month, the great news is that I can turn

797
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 4: your life around and you will be strong, and you

798
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 4: will have all the girlfriends you could possibly imagine, and

799
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 4: we're going to do this together because you're not a loser.

800
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 4: So just pay me that cash and it's going to be.

801
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 3: Fine, right, very scary. I just listen. I don't envy

802
00:44:54,400 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 3: parents with young children today. I have nieces who I door,

803
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 3: but they're in their twenties now, thank goodness, you know,

804
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: but I just it's a really tough decision. Do you

805
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 3: give your kids the freedom and the autonomy to make

806
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: those decisions and be like the rest of their friends

807
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: and be included, or do you let them be included

808
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: in this crazy stuff?

809
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: Like no, I mean we know now, we just have

810
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: the information now right now, I'm talking right now, I

811
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: officially know the proof is in the pudding. It is

812
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: bad and they don't care.

813
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,479
Speaker 4: No, of course, it's for profit companies and they're making

814
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 4: profits as big as the gross domestic monies of some

815
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 4: countries countries.

816
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: Of course they don't and have no shame in their game.

817
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 4: No oh well, thank you for that talk back. It's

818
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 4: a shame.

819
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: We kind of wet it.

820
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 4: But listen, stick around because at the top of the

821
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 4: hour we are friendly going to dissect Brian Colbert is

822
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 4: caught on camera just days after murdering for University of

823
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 4: id host students and he has calculated and it's very

824
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 4: strange and we'd love to hear from you, So give

825
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 4: us a call anytime. We're at eighty eight three one Crime.

826
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 4: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

827
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

828
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

829
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: head of KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts

830
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: like The Idaho Massacre or Murder one oh one, and

831
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: also documentaries like the Pike County Murders and The Idaho

832
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: Student Murder is currently out now on Peacock. So we're

833
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 2: glad you're joining us. Because honestly, this new information about

834
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger and seeing this video of him is pretty

835
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: alarming on and I can't wait to talk to you

836
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: guys about it. And also if you're just joining us,

837
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: you could always catch us right after also as a

838
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: podcast and stay with us because Robert rand who is

839
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: the journalist who has been covering the Menendez brothers literally

840
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 2: since day one, is here with us again to talk

841
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: about some new developments given that it's been thirty years

842
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: this month since their conviction, if you can believe it.

843
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: So where do we start?

844
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: Can we finally talk about Brian Coberger?

845
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: I know, I know, So let's set the table and

846
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: then we'll get into the video. So for those who

847
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 3: don't know who Brian Coberger is and what he did

848
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: and who his victims were, let's let's let's talk about

849
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: that very quickly. So Brian Coberger, he's thirty one. He

850
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: pled guilty in the summer of twenty twenty five to

851
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: fatally stabbing for University of Idaho students. They were Kiley Gonsalves,

852
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: Madison Mogan, Xaner Kernodle, and Ethan Schapin, and they were

853
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 3: living in an off campus home home in Moscow, Idaho.

854
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: All right, they were going to the University of Idaho

855
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 3: and this happened on November thirteenth of twenty twenty two.

856
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 3: All right, Brian Coberger was sentenced to four consecutive life terms,

857
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: although we never really knew what his motive was, if

858
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 3: there was any connection to the victims, and all of

859
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 3: that is still unclear because he wasn't forced to allocute.

860
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 3: So there was this video footage that was recently released

861
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: by the Washington DMV, and it shows Brian Coberger calmly

862
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 3: swapping out his license plates. And this was just five

863
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 3: days after the murder. And it's believed that it was

864
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: part of his attempt to evade law enforcement, like maybe

865
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: his camera was or maybe his car was caught on

866
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: camera when he was like leaving the house or en

867
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 3: route to the house. I better switch my license plates.

868
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 3: But it's important to note that they were also getting

869
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: ready to expire.

870
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is another day at DMV and weird

871
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: the fact that he was, I mean, keeping up with

872
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: his registration.

873
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 3: Well, I think he was keeping up with his registration

874
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 3: because it was a very convenient. I better change my

875
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: car up a little bit, you know. Like, you know,

876
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania doesn't require a front license plate. Brian Coberger is

877
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: from Pennsylvania. And you know, if if they caught on CCTV,

878
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 3: if they caught maybe on a ring camera or something,

879
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: if he's sitting there thinking maybe I was seen nine

880
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 3: or maybe my car was seen and I don't have

881
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 3: a front license plate because I don't need one in Pennsylvania.

882
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: I better go get my Washington ones because they do,

883
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, it was a very convenient,

884
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 3: like switcher roo for him.

885
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: Remember also, there was never really a clear image of

886
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger behind the wheel with a license plate, and

887
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: that would have really worked to his benefit had he

888
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 2: gone to trial. It's one of the factories that really

889
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: always stuck in my head. But again, I've never seen

890
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: him speak before. So even just seeing him in this

891
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: video where he actually is using his voice other than

892
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: saying yes your honor or yes, your honor, and he

893
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 2: has said very little so far, so for me, that

894
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: alone was pretty staggering. Yeah, they were making at the DMV,

895
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 2: so this happened. So November eighteenth is the day he

896
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: went into the DMV. It's just again, five days after

897
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 2: the murders. And he's dressed in all black, right, and

898
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: he's got like these big, bulky gloves on. It was

899
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: so weird looking. And he's writing.

900
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 3: The lady asked him, oh, I need your a domit reading,

901
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 3: and he's like okay, and he leaves and he comes

902
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: back and he's filling out the paperwork to write down

903
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 3: his abdominer reading and he's got these big gloves on

904
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 3: as he's got this little pencil. It was so awkward

905
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 3: to me, like that to me, But listen, I'm I

906
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: noticed these things, and maybe not everybody does, but I

907
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 3: would have been like, no.

908
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 4: That is strange unless you have some kind of you know,

909
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 4: rash that you can catch or spread. Why are you

910
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 4: wearing those gloves?

911
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: Right? And you know they're making chit chat, you know,

912
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: she was very kind. They were talking about sports teams,

913
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 3: like I think she said she was a Giants fan

914
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 3: and she's from the Bay Area and he's like, oh, yeah,

915
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 3: you know, I'm from back East. I hope that I'm

916
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: accepted here. And she was like, oh, yeah, it'll be fine,

917
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: and you know, it's very safe except for those murders

918
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 3: that just happened.

919
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: And he just was like, he doesn't say anything. He's

920
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: just he says nothing, and he's the guy that did it.

921
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: It's pretty I know. I got to jump in because

922
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 2: not only with the gloves alarming. In retrospect, yes, looking

923
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: at it, that seemed weird, But in the moment, what

924
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: I was really taken back with was imagine just being

925
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: behind him online or just standing next to him. I'm

926
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: speaking now anecdotically for myself, I would have thought he

927
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 2: was totally fine and normal. Honestly, nothing about that seemed

928
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 2: strange to me. Yes, maybe he had a rash or yes,

929
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: he was wearing gloves, but he was so at ease

930
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: and so nonchalant.

931
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 4: This is the version.

932
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: Oh see, I thought he was.

933
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 3: I thought he seems looking away and he kept looking

934
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: you know, he kept looking eye behind me. What's the

935
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 3: left of me? What's the right of me?

936
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 4: No, I gotta say I actually I had Stephanie's take

937
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 4: on it that he I was smooth, right, Yeah, you

938
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 4: need the odometer reading, No problem, I'll go out, I'll

939
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 4: be right back.

940
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: Just that I mean, yeah, yeah, he was like kind

941
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: of friendly to me. That is what his family members,

942
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: his loved ones. This is the slice of Brian Coburger

943
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: that I think other people have seen, which is why

944
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: they can't comprehend the fact that maybe he has actually

945
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 2: done this, you know, So I think that's what's so

946
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: scary about it. Honestly, it petrified me. This is why

947
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: the Brian Coburger case is so interesting because he's a

948
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 2: regular guy.

949
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 5: Wow.

950
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 3: I think he had a calm affect about him. But

951
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 3: it was a mask and there's things you cannot The

952
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 3: mask slips all right, and he's looking around him all

953
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: the time, he's you know, to me, he did not

954
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: seem normal to me. And that's not in the hindsight thing.

955
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: That's like observational as as is without knowing anything. And

956
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: maybe I'm a little biased because I do know, you

957
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: know what I mean, But to me, he seemed I'm

958
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 3: just saying. The gloves were weird to me. If I

959
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 3: had some kind of rash, if I had some kind

960
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 3: of rash, i'd be wearing some like slim isotoners or something, right,

961
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 3: And he's checking his phone, he's doing these things. It

962
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: was he had like snow mobile like gloves on, like

963
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 3: these big bulky gloves. It was super just bizarre to me.

964
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

965
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm the only one I thought I was kind

966
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: of relaxed. Honestly, I had a really different experience. I

967
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 2: thought he was so oddly normal. You know, you go

968
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 2: to DMV, you see all kinds of types of people.

969
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 2: You know, everyone's in like their weird moment of not

970
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 2: actually wanting to be there. He seemed rather like peppy

971
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: and friendly as far as I could see, And I've

972
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: never really seen that side of him anytime he's been

973
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: described to me. He was so awkward or uncomfortable in

974
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 2: his skin, or had a darkness maybe about him. That's

975
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 2: what I was expecting, and to me, it was pretty

976
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: harrowing that he was just like a regular guy that

977
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: was sort of operating in the world, knowing full well

978
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: that days prior he did he murdered four people in

979
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: the most massive overkill imaginable to have the wherewithal to

980
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 2: actually follow through with going to the DMV. A couple

981
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: days later, remember, he was still going to class. He

982
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 2: was still great, happyers, I know, but it still seems

983
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: like it should show up a little bit more. But

984
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: it's also shaken in his boots.

985
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but him going to the DMV and getting his

986
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: new license plates is also part of the crime, right

987
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 3: it's part of the cover up. It's not the cover up,

988
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 3: but the concealment of it, because he has to change them.

989
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: He has to. He's sitting We know that right before

990
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 3: he was arrested, he was getting paranoid and he was

991
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 3: searching for all these things, and he was obsessively searching

992
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 3: about the Moscow, Idaho murders, right the ones that he's

993
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 3: responsible for. I imagine him sitting at home obsessing about this.

994
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: You know again, this is fine shows out of the murder,

995
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 3: checking the news. His mom is calling him, Hey, did

996
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: you hear about this? He's getting and he's like and

997
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 3: he's thinking, I've got to go change my license plates.

998
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: I've got to get that front license plate, but I

999
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 3: need a change. If you're just joining us, this is

1000
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 3: true crime tonight. I'm Courtney Armstrong.

1001
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 4: Here is Always with Body Moven and Stephanie Leidecker, and

1002
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 4: we're talking about the newly released DMV footage of Brian Koberger,

1003
00:55:54,719 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 4: who murdered for Idaho college students, and Stephanie, I think

1004
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 4: you were about.

1005
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: To Yeah, I was just imagining. I don't even want

1006
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 2: to go to DMV on my best day in a

1007
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: normal life, so to think that if he was that premeditated,

1008
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: that he wouldn't have done that in advance. And again,

1009
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: why would you go to such a public place where

1010
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,240
Speaker 2: you actually have to keep your cool and wear facocta

1011
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: gloves knowing that people are probably looking at your hands.

1012
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: To me, it seems astounding. It seems so like dexter.

1013
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 2: It seems scary. I can only imagine how the victims' families. Heck,

1014
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: how his family must feel seeing this again, because again

1015
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 2: he's just like amongst everybody. And again he didn't even

1016
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: have any big connection to the victims we know now,

1017
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 2: so this is just pure weird stranger danger, which is

1018
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 2: extremely rare. So seeing something that rare in the wild

1019
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: to me was kind of scary.

1020
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 3: I think he planned to do it this way. I

1021
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 3: think he planned to do it right after the murders,

1022
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 3: knowing that we can too. I really do, because he

1023
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 3: knew like if I, if I am seen, it's going

1024
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 3: to only have one license plate, it's not going to

1025
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 3: be a big deal, Like they're not going to be

1026
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 3: able to find me. Like, I really do think that

1027
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 3: he always planned on going to the DMV after Wow,

1028
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 3: But that's just my opinion. I have no guns of that.

1029
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: That's just my I mean, this guy again for somebody

1030
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: who was so like lamely odd and sort of you know,

1031
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: not particularly like a tough guy. This guy was murdered

1032
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 2: for people in different rooms and somehow like got away

1033
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: with it practically and honestly, just as showing up very

1034
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: nonchalantly throughout the world is bananas to me, And I

1035
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: guess yes, I think both things can also be true

1036
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: here too. Of course he's masking. He just murdered four people.

1037
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: Of course he's compartmentalizing. Maybe this was premeditated. I just

1038
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: hate the fact that if I were in that DMV,

1039
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 2: I don't know that I would have spotted that. I

1040
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 2: would not have taken him for the boogeyman at all.

1041
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 3: Right, did you guys see this new bill about the

1042
00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 3: crime scene photos?

1043
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 6: Yes?

1044
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 5: Okay, so.

1045
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 3: So did you?

1046
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1047
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 3: Of course I did so, I think March twenty six.

1048
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 3: March twenty sixth, Idaho Governor Brad Little signed into a

1049
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 3: law and too, I'm sorry, signed into law a bill

1050
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,479
Speaker 3: that prohibits public release of photos showing to cease crime

1051
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 3: victims through public records requests. This legislation was championed by

1052
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 3: the family of Kaylee Gunsolvus. She is one of Brian

1053
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 3: Coberger's victims that we were just talking about. Olivia Gunsalves

1054
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: is Kaylee's sister who is still she's living, and she

1055
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 3: stated the law was long overdue. The Gonsalvest's family and

1056
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: other families other victims. Families have previously learned about details

1057
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 3: and images at the same time as the public, of course,

1058
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: which they described as traumatic and unnecessary. Olivia Gunsalvis stated

1059
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 3: that those opposed should reconsider why you feel entitled to

1060
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: view photos taking during a death investigation of a dead body.

1061
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 3: Olivia expressed a desire to see similar legislation adopted nationwide,

1062
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 3: noting that if it could pass unanimously in a conservative Idaho,

1063
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: it could be passed elsewhere. So what do we think

1064
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 3: about this?

1065
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: I think it's great.

1066
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 4: I think it's fantastic, and I know you feel different body,

1067
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 4: but I think and I think Olivia, you know, her

1068
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 4: words kind of said it all. I agree.

1069
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 3: I do agree.

1070
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 4: I listen.

1071
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 3: I am in I am in no way saying that

1072
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 3: people deserve or need to see photographs of dead bodies

1073
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 3: like I want to make that clear. I'm not a proponent.

1074
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 3: I'm very sympathetic to the families. It's horrible, terrible, horrible.

1075
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 3: My issue, My issue is that this lacks transparency. Right,

1076
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 3: So if things are questionable, let's say this is Karen

1077
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 3: Reid or something, right, if they are questionable things, it

1078
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 3: lacks transparency to the public, is my point. However, again,

1079
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 3: I still don't necessarily think that we need to look

1080
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 3: at dead bodies to get that kind of transparency. I

1081
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 3: just want to stop the slippery slope.

1082
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: I get it, and so are like, enough is enough.

1083
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: I think we're all getting a little crazy with seeing

1084
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 2: disgusting things. We've seen person get assassinated this year on television.

1085
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 2: We all witnessed it. We've seen Luigi you know, allegedly

1086
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly, you know, shoot the CEO of you know,

1087
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: United Healthcare. We've seen too much, you know. To what

1088
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: end do we have to see grisly crime scene photos

1089
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: of people's death at their most vulnerable moment. I get it.

1090
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 2: If you're investigating a case, we look at them all

1091
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 2: the time, and frankly, I wish there are so many

1092
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: that I wish I hadn't seen. I could have looked

1093
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: at the autopsy in a very specific black and White

1094
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,479
Speaker 2: Way without seeing the gore of what a real crime

1095
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 2: scene is. These are so intense. I don't think the

1096
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 2: human brain casually is supposed to see this stuff. I

1097
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 2: don't think it makes us better.

1098
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 13: I get it.

1099
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 2: We do it very specifically if we're working on a

1100
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: case where it's very sacred. It's a pretty decent process

1101
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: that you have to go through to be able to

1102
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: access this information. I don't know. I just think we're

1103
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 2: all like jumping the shark a little bit with the

1104
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 2: gruesomeness that we're all feeling so entitled to have access to.

1105
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 3: I definitely agree. I definitely agree with you on that.

1106
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

1107
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and even the transparency, like the bill doesn't say

1108
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 4: these cannot be used in a court of law in

1109
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 4: order to bring justice to something. It's just out to

1110
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 4: the public. And it brings to mind we're running out

1111
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 4: of time. But Bianca Devins, she was a very young

1112
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 4: she was a teenager. She was killed, it was live streamed,

1113
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 4: and that video has haunted her family and yeah, very

1114
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 4: bad things. Anyway, I digress, but keep it here. Robert

1115
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 4: rand is going to be joining us. We're going to

1116
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 4: talk about the fact that it's thirty years after the

1117
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 4: Menendez murders. Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

1118
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1119
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

1120
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So listen if you

1121
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: can imagine, it's been thirty years since the infamous conviction

1122
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: of the Menendez brothers, and obviously they were in the

1123
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 2: press so much over the last year, but we really

1124
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: haven't heard too too much recently. So we have the

1125
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 2: guy Robert Rand is back with us. He's an extraordinary

1126
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: journalist and author. He also made a documentary that we

1127
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: will talk way more about, but he's here to kind

1128
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: of us up to speed on all things Menendez. You know, Courtney,

1129
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 2: do you want to do a little backstory and set

1130
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: up Yeah, absolutely so. Robert Rand, who we've had the

1131
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: pleasure of speaking with before. He's an Emmy and DuPont

1132
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 2: Award winning journalist. He has been covering this case since

1133
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 2: literally the day after the murders, all the way back

1134
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: in eighty nine, and Robert Rand has interviewed both the

1135
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 2: brothers before their arrest, attended both trials, and his reporting

1136
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: helped uncover key evidence that could potentially play a role

1137
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 2: in a release and Robert is also the author of

1138
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 2: the updated edition Menendez Murders.

1139
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 4: Robert, we're so happy you're here.

1140
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, good eating which being back?

1141
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: So good to have you back.

1142
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 4: Yes, and just to catch anyone up to date, So

1143
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 4: back on August twentieth again. In nineteen eighty nine, Eric

1144
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 4: and Lyle Menendez they killed their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez.

1145
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 4: This happened in their home in Beverly Hills that you

1146
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 4: shotguns are cli range and Eric and Lyle Menendez were

1147
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 4: the ones who called nine one one. They weren't initially suspects,

1148
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 4: but in the months that followed, it came to bear

1149
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 4: that they were the ones who did it, and the

1150
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 4: first trial ended in a hung jury. But in March

1151
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 4: of nineteen ninety six, thirty years ago, Eric and lyleman

1152
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 4: Indez were convicted of first degree murder. They're sentenced to

1153
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 4: life without parole and yeah, now here we are, so Robert,

1154
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 4: looking at this thirty year milestone, what stands out to

1155
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 4: you the most about how this case has evolved, the

1156
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: fact that Eric.

1157
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 5: And Lyle Mendez were sentenced to last may to fifty

1158
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 5: years of life from life without parole is remarkable. The

1159
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 5: fact that they have a chance for the first time

1160
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 5: to get out of prison is really astonishing to be

1161
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 5: But you know, they went before the board last August,

1162
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 5: as you said, and they were found not suitable for parole.

1163
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 5: And I know that we think of them as one unit,

1164
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 5: the Menetta's brothers, but actually they are two individual cases.

1165
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 5: So each brother had their own parole hearing, and they

1166
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 5: were found not suitable for parole. But one year from

1167
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 5: their parole hearings in August twenty twenty six, later this year,

1168
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 5: the Parole Board will conduct what's called an administrative review,

1169
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 5: and even though it's three years until the brothers are

1170
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 5: supposed to return to the board, the parle Board can

1171
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 5: decide to advance that date, and so there could be

1172
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 5: a parole hearing in the fall of twenty twenty seven,

1173
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 5: and I believe there will be after talking with one

1174
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 5: of their lawyers a few days ago.

1175
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: Because there did seem to be so much public support

1176
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 2: for their release, and family members were outside and you know,

1177
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 2: they were doing all of these interviews. We were all

1178
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: really swept up by the fact that they were really

1179
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 2: going to work, you know, walk free finally. By so

1180
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 2: many accounts they were exemplary, you know, citizens behind bars,

1181
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 2: and yeah, what they got dinged for seemed like very

1182
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 2: small infractions given the time that they've been behind bars,

1183
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 2: and maybe that got caught up in some of the

1184
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 2: political warfare that was happening in Los Angeles at the

1185
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 2: time of their appeal. So we all remain hopeful for them.

1186
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 2: I know, we've gotten a ton of feedback of people

1187
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: really really feeling like it was appropriate for them to

1188
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 2: be released, and again not because of just good behavior,

1189
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 2: but maybe that they were potentially miss miss sentenced in

1190
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 2: the first place, given the new information that's come out

1191
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 2: because of you.

1192
01:06:55,040 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 5: Frankly Well, California is really known for being politically progressive

1193
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 5: in reproductive issues, LGBTQ rights, and environmental justice, and yet

1194
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 5: we're really kind of draconian and when it comes to

1195
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 5: criminal justice. So it's typical that the first time people

1196
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 5: appear before the California pro Board, they are not released.

1197
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 5: But I believe that there could be a different outcome

1198
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 5: when they return, and the pro Board basically laid out

1199
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 5: over the two days of hearings how they can come back,

1200
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 5: and it's really simple. They can't have any new violations

1201
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,439
Speaker 5: of prison rules, right.

1202
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 3: None, No violations that should be neat enough to do,

1203
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 3: I would imagine.

1204
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And with the violations that we're even talking about

1205
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 2: are like phone infringements that kind of thing. It's not

1206
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: as though they were getting into brawls in the lunch

1207
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 2: room or anything like that. And Robert correct me if

1208
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm wrong. You found a very key piece of information

1209
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 2: that was a big factor in this most recent appeals

1210
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: process where their backstory, their origin story of piteous sexual

1211
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: abuse at the hand of their father, and by their testimony,

1212
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 2: their mom kind of looked the other way that you

1213
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 2: found a letter from yesteryear that really cooperated that well.

1214
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 5: I was very close to Mark Kano, who is the

1215
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 5: sister of Jose Mendez and her son Andy, who sadly

1216
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 5: passed away in two thousand and three, had received the

1217
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 5: letter from Eric Mendus in December of nineteen eighty eight,

1218
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 5: and in that letter, Eric Mendez talks about the ongoing

1219
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 5: sexual abuse by his father, and nobody had ever seen

1220
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 5: this letter. It never came into either trial. And the

1221
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 5: way I found it was that I was visiting missus

1222
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 5: Canna at her home in Florida when I was on

1223
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 5: deadline from my original book in twenty eighteen, and one

1224
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,440
Speaker 5: day she offered me the opportunity to go through addresser

1225
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 5: full of her late Sun's papers, and within fifteen minutes

1226
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 5: I found this letter and I was astonished, and I

1227
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 5: immediately called Cliff Gardner, who was an impellate attorney who

1228
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 5: had represented the brothers over twenty years, and then I

1229
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 5: literally hand carried the letter to Cliff's office in California

1230
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 5: from Florida because I knew how important that was, and

1231
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 5: that was the letter was one of the pieces at

1232
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 5: one of the foundations of the habeas petition that the

1233
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 5: Men's brothers filed the day after documentary I created, Menendez

1234
01:09:54,680 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 5: plus Menudo Boys Betrayed Peacock, and that documentary revealed other

1235
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 5: new evidence, and it featured a former member of the

1236
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 5: boy band Menudo, Roy Roussello, who revealed that he had

1237
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 5: been sexually assaulted by Jose Nndez when he was a

1238
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 5: teenager and a member of the band in the nineteen eighties.

1239
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 3: The last parole hearing that was done in hearing in

1240
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 3: August of twenty twenty five. It lasted about ten hours

1241
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 3: for Eric in eleven hours for Lyle. What made that

1242
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 3: so unusual for you.

1243
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 5: Well, a typical parole hearing in California does go longer

1244
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 5: than two or three hours, and as you just said,

1245
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 5: the brother's hearings were much longer. And the purpose of

1246
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,759
Speaker 5: a parole hearing in California is to answer two basic questions.

1247
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 5: One are you rehabilitated? And two are you a danger

1248
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 5: to the people of California if we let you out?

1249
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 5: And instead, it seemed me from reading the transcripts which

1250
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 5: are now public, from the hearings, it seemed to me

1251
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 5: that the pro commissioners there were two separate pro commissions

1252
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 5: for each brother on each shake. It felt like they

1253
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 5: were retrying the case. Oh really, and you know, going

1254
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 5: into a lot of information from thirty to thirty five

1255
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 5: years ago. And so that was weird. And then there

1256
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 5: was a really strange situation on the second day of

1257
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,679
Speaker 5: the hearings when Lyle's hearing took place, when audio from

1258
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 5: Eric's parole hearing leaked out to a media outlet in

1259
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 5: Los Angeles, and that immediately through the parle hearing, you know,

1260
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 5: into chaos, and it kept going in and out of

1261
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 5: on the record session, and the pro commissioners were trying

1262
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 5: to decide what they were to do, and they were

1263
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 5: members of the family, were still scheduled to test bow

1264
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 5: and they said that they didn't feel comfortable test. Fine,

1265
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 5: the pool hearings were not public, they were not livestream,

1266
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 5: but there was a pool reporter who sent out pool reports.

1267
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 5: And then about a month after the hearings, the entire

1268
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 5: trestricts were released as well as the audio. But the

1269
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 5: fact that this audio from Eric's hearing the day before

1270
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 5: came out really caused a very weird situation. Wow, they're

1271
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 5: doing well again. You have to go back to the

1272
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 5: first thing I said, which was they never thought they

1273
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 5: were getting out. They were sentenced to life without role,

1274
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 5: which really means that in California. And so the fact

1275
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 5: that you know, they have an opportunity now to go

1276
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 5: before for the pro board and possibly be released in

1277
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 5: the future is a remarkable change of their story. And

1278
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:17,759
Speaker 5: you know, along with the recensing, the movement on social

1279
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 5: media of the NUNS supporters, not only in the States

1280
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 5: but all over the world is remarkable. I my son,

1281
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 5: who was fourteenth at the time, in me in the

1282
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 5: summer of twenty twenty, and he said, Dad yet to

1283
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 5: take a look at TikTok. It's full of Menend's brothers videos,

1284
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 5: and I laughed, and then I went down the rabbit

1285
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 5: hole for a few hours checking out all these videos

1286
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 5: and I watched, as you know, this social media movement

1287
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 5: on TikTok and Instagram was growing over the next few months,

1288
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 5: and so I called a friend of mine who's an

1289
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 5: editor at the New York Times, and in February twenty

1290
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 5: twenty one, they actually ran a story about the social

1291
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 5: media supporters, and then ABC twenty twenty a two hour show,

1292
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 5: and so the social media sport, even though it's you know,

1293
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 5: it's in the background, it's not part of the actual case,

1294
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 5: it's I think it's very important. You know, people think that,

1295
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 5: you know, everything happened because of Monsters Menanda's the sort

1296
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 5: of show that came out in September twenty twenty four,

1297
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 5: and then a Netflix Menandas documentary came out a month later.

1298
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 5: But if you really want to go back, this social

1299
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 5: media movement really set things off. And then when our

1300
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 5: documentary about the connection between the Menund's case and Jose

1301
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 5: Menendez came out in May of twenty twenty three, that

1302
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 5: led to the Habeas Pissi being filed, and so that

1303
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 5: there were a number of steps that led to the

1304
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:11,480
Speaker 5: story the way it is today. And it's been remarkable

1305
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 5: to see the change. And I was there for all

1306
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 5: the hearings from late twenty four until May twenty five,

1307
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 5: and it's just amazing after all.

1308
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 4: The years, I mean, after all these years being present

1309
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 4: for all of it. Listen, we don't have a ton

1310
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 4: of time, but Robert, one thing we do need to

1311
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 4: know is what you're working on next, because we understand

1312
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 4: there's two new books and maybe a TV project in

1313
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 4: the works.

1314
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 5: I am working actually on a it sounds remarkable, a

1315
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 5: what I call a final edition of the book that

1316
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 5: will come out. I hope when the brothers are set free,

1317
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 5: they should be set free. And also I'm working on

1318
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 5: a documentary that might end up being two documentaries that

1319
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 5: involves new evidence, which is hard to believe at this

1320
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 5: point that anything is new. But also I have over

1321
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 5: four hundred audio tapes from my reporting because my background

1322
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 5: was in TV.

1323
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 3: News, So oh yeah, people love those, you.

1324
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 5: Know, just recorded all the interviews starting with the brothers

1325
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 5: two months and five months before they were arrested. And

1326
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,600
Speaker 5: then I'm actually working on a new book totally unrelated

1327
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 5: to the brooch.

1328
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: I will listen to the audiotape documentary. I love those

1329
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 3: when they use the actual footage and the tapes from

1330
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 3: the prison, and I love those. I will definitely tune

1331
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 3: into that.

1332
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 4: We can't thank you enough Robert for joining us as

1333
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 4: always and listen. Anyone who wants to go deeper into

1334
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,959
Speaker 4: this case, please check out Robert Rand's book, The Updated

1335
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 4: Edition Menndez Murders, the shocking, untold story of the Menendez

1336
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 4: family and the killings that stunned the nation. It's now

1337
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 4: updated with new evidence and said for re release, along

1338
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:19,799
Speaker 4: with Robert Rand's documentary Menendez and Menudo Boys Betrayed, streaming

1339
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 4: on Peacock. Thank you, Robert, and keeping Thank you Robert.

1340
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight.

1341
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1342
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm stuff here with Courtney

1343
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 2: and Body and we're so glad that you have spent

1344
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 2: your Sunday with us, and we want to jam through

1345
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 2: a couple of your talkbacks. Let's go to one now.

1346
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 14: Hello, ladies, Tahan cru This is Gina from Arcadia, Florida.

1347
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 14: Not true crime, but here it goes. I just found

1348
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 14: out TLC, Salt and Pepper and in Vogue are pouring

1349
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 14: this year.

1350
01:17:57,880 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 4: Want to join me.

1351
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 14: I have none of my circle who likes my music.

1352
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 14: But then I realized, y'all are my circle. I love

1353
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 14: you really like close friends. I miss you so much

1354
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 14: on the weekends.

1355
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:08,839
Speaker 2: Respect.

1356
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 14: And also you don't deliver it like a monotone dead fish.

1357
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 14: We laugh to cry, we educate ourselves, and we are

1358
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 14: thankful for all that you do.

1359
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 3: Don't go Chase.

1360
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:25,599
Speaker 2: That was the nicest to talk back ever. Yeah, it's

1361
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 2: the nicest audience, very like they make yeah, like they're

1362
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:36,640
Speaker 2: so nice. Oh it's been a weird day. I'm so

1363
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: there was.

1364
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 3: Listen, if I could see TLC, like I would die

1365
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 3: of happiness, like for real, Like I love TLC. So

1366
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 3: count body moving in on the concert. I'm there for something,

1367
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 3: Papa all, I'm.

1368
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 4: Let's just be real. We pushed it real good.

1369
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 3: Yes, so sophisticated to like.

1370
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, all of those songs and the rest will follow,

1371
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 9: don't beat.

1372
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 3: And they were all like hot, and they would like

1373
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 3: rip off their trench coats and they look they were

1374
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:24,599
Speaker 3: just so awesome, fabulous.

1375
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 8: That would be such a fun story about one of

1376
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 8: them that was she was living out of her car

1377
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:33,480
Speaker 8: or something. Really, she came came on hard times financially,

1378
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,679
Speaker 8: so but you know, we've all heard those stories about artists,

1379
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 8: so I'm sure.

1380
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 9: But glad to hear that she's back on.

1381
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 4: Tour and that helped them get out of the car.

1382
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:42,639
Speaker 9: Now she's on the stage.

1383
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 2: That's exciting.

1384
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 4: Lisa from Pittsburgh.

1385
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 2: I got my swag.

1386
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 4: I absolutely love my mug.

1387
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,640
Speaker 3: I opened it immediately turned around to show it off

1388
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 3: to my wife, and then I saw the.

1389
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 2: Back allegedly allegedly, I love that.

1390
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 8: Allegedly we sent it to you because well, at first,

1391
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 8: she needs a little soothing tea in that.

1392
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 4: I know.

1393
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 3: I was like, what is wrong with her? Are you okay?

1394
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 4: Yes?

1395
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,560
Speaker 2: No she It came back very quickly. It sounded like,

1396
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 2: but that sounds like me after anything, after the show. Frankly,

1397
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 2: after the show, right.

1398
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 3: I know, you imagine if we lost our voices, what

1399
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 3: will we do? Actually, well, I don't say that lost

1400
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 3: my voice.

1401
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 4: After I had gone to my right, your reunion, my

1402
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 4: high school reunion came on a rock star.

1403
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1404
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 3: He just sounded sexy though you were like, ah, it's cold.

1405
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1406
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 2: I was like, are you in Pike County.

1407
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 4: No, I know it does.

1408
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 2: It sounded very sultry as.

1409
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:57,679
Speaker 3: At the louver.

1410
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 4: It's right, ed.

1411
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 2: Oh where's ed?

1412
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 3: Hihead?

1413
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 2: Let's go to one another.

1414
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,599
Speaker 13: Top back, you guys, what about like an AOL chat

1415
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 13: room or like the twenty twenty sixth version of that

1416
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 13: where we could all come and just hang out and

1417
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 13: shoot the crab.

1418
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:21,840
Speaker 2: Molly from Hey you made me so happy yesterday. Thank

1419
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 2: you for taking the time to say that.

1420
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 4: It made my whole day.

1421
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:27,560
Speaker 2: So it was it from Australia.

1422
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 4: Oh we got to link up.

1423
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 2: It's Emily from north of Boston.

1424
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 3: Remember we had our caller calling in and that's a

1425
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 3: shout out to her. We had like dueling callers that

1426
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: they made friends, like a friend connection we had.

1427
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 2: We have six degrees. Listen of true crime tonight.

1428
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 3: I'm all up for a meet up AOL style. We

1429
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 3: just I have rules, no ASL stuff. Remember you us

1430
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 3: go into chat rooms on AOL and you'd be like,

1431
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:55,839
Speaker 3: oh a sex location, age sex location?

1432
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 2: Remember that?

1433
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 10: Yeah?

1434
01:21:57,880 --> 01:21:58,560
Speaker 8: I remember that?

1435
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I do I remember that. But listen, I

1436
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: want to go to Boston so bad?

1437
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so you want to go to Salem so bad?

1438
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 2: Is that is that top of the list. Salem, Well,

1439
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 2: Salem is very I mean for a witch trial, We're

1440
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 2: going to go and just hang out with our kit,

1441
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 2: with our friends, and then I will totally go in

1442
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:26,080
Speaker 2: the witch tour with you for sure, no.

1443
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1444
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 3: So I also want to see like Paul Revere stuff

1445
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 3: I love, like the American evolution and all the history

1446
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 3: and all that, like I am here for it.

1447
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 2: And then after that, Courtney, we'll go in a booze cruise.

1448
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 2: What happens after that?

1449
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 4: I was going to say all this, all this stuff

1450
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 4: you're talking about. I mean, I have been to Boston

1451
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 4: a lot, and I still go a lot, and I've

1452
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 4: never done any of those things because you know, we're

1453
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 4: always booze cruis and are on the beach playing volleyball.

1454
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 2: I mean's basement.

1455
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, I'm thinking like September, October and Salem.

1456
01:22:59,640 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 2: Nothing.

1457
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 3: I don't think anything could beautiful?

1458
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 9: Well could you imagine?

1459
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:04,920
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.

1460
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 9: Halloween time would be perfect.

1461
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 8: Well, you know how you were talking last week about

1462
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 8: you know, loving to go to scary places and things

1463
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,639
Speaker 8: like that. Oh, I got a talk back that someone

1464
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 8: sent that's following up on that conversation, Adam, can you

1465
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:18,720
Speaker 8: play that one?

1466
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 4: Hi?

1467
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 10: Everyone, Lee from Ontario, Canada. I'm catching up on the

1468
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,560
Speaker 10: Thursday night episode via podcast. You're talking about hauntings the

1469
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 10: Cecil Hotel, my ghost Story, which I used to watch,

1470
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 10: and I just wanted to tune in. I've actually been

1471
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 10: to a couple locations. I've been to the Lovy Borden House,

1472
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 10: a guest house, into the Myrtles Plantation, to name a few.

1473
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,320
Speaker 10: And we actually got something on video once at the

1474
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 10: Myrtles where it looked like something was lifting up the

1475
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 10: corner of our sheet. But the scariest thing ever happened

1476
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 10: and me actually happened in my own bedroom when I

1477
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:56,560
Speaker 10: was living in London, Ontario, where I woke up to

1478
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 10: the feeling of someone sitting on my bed and rubbing

1479
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 10: my lower leg as if there were a comforting gesture.

1480
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 10: At the time, I was in my late teams the

1481
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 10: early twenties, and I had a green lava lamp on

1482
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 10: so my room was always lit and I didn't see anyone,

1483
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 10: but I felt it. Thanks and have a great weekend.

1484
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 2: Stop my goodness now see.

1485
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:23,799
Speaker 3: Out the way irem Yeah, on the house down.

1486
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,560
Speaker 4: The Myrtle Lizzie Borden, you were bringing back all We

1487
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 4: did stories on all of those places, and you should

1488
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 4: have been on my ghost story back in the day.

1489
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 2: But if you go, do you bring a ghost back

1490
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,640
Speaker 2: with you? Is that possible? Just attach stick with you?

1491
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 4: Do that right?

1492
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:44,680
Speaker 2: Like if you go ghost hunting and you're forever, like

1493
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 2: hunting for a ghost or going to some of these

1494
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 2: destinations where they're allegedly haunted, does the ghost come with.

1495
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 3: I've been to two places and I never had an issue. Courtney,

1496
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 3: what about you and me? You've been to tons of them? Well,

1497
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 3: I have never personally, I have never seen a spirit.

1498
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 3: I have never seen a ghost.

1499
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 4: But on the attachment, some people absolutely ascertained that that

1500
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 4: happened to them.

1501
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 3: I don't think those are attracted to me.

1502
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,519
Speaker 2: I have so many friends that have had close connection

1503
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:22,640
Speaker 2: ghost stories that are so scary and so real. It

1504
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 2: has to be real, no doubt. I have no doubt

1505
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 2: that it's real.

1506
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 3: I'm not attracted to the living or the dead. How

1507
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 3: do you like that?

1508
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 4: How do you like them? You kidding?

1509
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 9: Well? Do you remember around Halloween we have the guests on.

1510
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 8: I think it was past see anyway, But yes, she

1511
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 8: was also she always saw a ghost and everything, and

1512
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 8: I feel like she hinted at the fact that there

1513
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 8: were ghosts that could travel along because she went to

1514
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 8: college and she still saw one in her room there.

1515
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 9: So I don't know. Something about the whole ghost thing

1516
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 9: frightens me.

1517
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 2: I feel like, if you.

1518
01:25:57,200 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 3: Can see them and communicate with them in some way,

1519
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 3: then somehow they would follow you, because oh you're special,

1520
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:08,200
Speaker 3: like you're a rare person where I can communicate with

1521
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 3: this one person, and so I'm going to follow them

1522
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 3: around everywhere they go so that I can continue to communicate.

1523
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 3: I don't have any of those abilities, so they stay

1524
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 3: away from.

1525
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 9: Me, and I'm never I know, I'm a little nervous suddenly.

1526
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 8: So yeah, let's maybe we change the energy and bring

1527
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 8: on another talkback, not about ghosts, please, Okay.

1528
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:32,639
Speaker 12: I know you're thinking about the location for a national

1529
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 12: media of true ground to my singers, I'm here and

1530
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,440
Speaker 12: bluffed in South Carolina, and my suggestion is a Savannah,

1531
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:45,680
Speaker 12: Georgia media. The airport gear is so easy and welcoming

1532
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 12: for in and out travel. Plus there's tons of great

1533
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 12: places where we could all gather.

1534
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 3: You guys ever been to Savannah?

1535
01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 2: I have not been to Savannah and I'm dying ago

1536
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:01,799
Speaker 2: and it sounds perfect.

1537
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:07,080
Speaker 3: It is something special. Actually I've only been there once. Yeah,

1538
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,600
Speaker 3: I've only been there once, and I wasn't there for

1539
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:12,920
Speaker 3: very long. But it's like it's a big town. I

1540
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,759
Speaker 3: mean it's a big city, but it's like lazy city.

1541
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,760
Speaker 3: Like No, I don't mean the people are lazy, like

1542
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 3: good for nothing, So I just mean like it's slower.

1543
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,680
Speaker 3: It's yeah, and like the moss do you know what

1544
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 3: I mean? Like the tree I don't know what those

1545
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 3: are called because I live in the desert, you know,

1546
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 3: I don't see trees often.

1547
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 2: So many great movies were made there.

1548
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, just an incredible architecture. It's just very cool people.

1549
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 3: It's also really like college town esque, so it's also

1550
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 3: very hip. I really loved the Savannah and the food

1551
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 3: was so good. So would put it on the books

1552
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:50,760
Speaker 3: and let's do it. I was just gonna say, I

1553
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:52,600
Speaker 3: didn't know we were doing a national meetup. This is

1554
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,760
Speaker 3: news to me a while back.

1555
01:27:56,040 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, manifesting, but you're manifesting it. Yes, I mean that's

1556
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 2: I mean, but here and there we are.

1557
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:06,879
Speaker 9: Committee.

1558
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's all ready come on us here.

1559
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 9: I'm open to whatever.

1560
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 3: Cared about the ghost Savannah has a lot of no and.

1561
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 8: That's where they shot the Walking Dead, according to Sam.

1562
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 8: So if you want to all these and ghosts, yeah,

1563
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 8: they're all right there.

1564
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 2: Oh well there you go. Yeah, let's go to another

1565
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,599
Speaker 2: And I love this suggestion. We're going to mark our calendars.

1566
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 2: Let's all start collectively looking towards the fall.

1567
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 9: I assume that's that's a good, good time of year.

1568
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 15: Okay, hey y'all, it's Gena in Florida. I actually watched

1569
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 15: the Alabama Solution right after it came out, and it

1570
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:50,759
Speaker 15: was incredibly emotional for me, very a lot of violence,

1571
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 15: very very heartbreaking, but I mean it was very very good.

1572
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 15: I really highly recommend it. I'm just not sure if

1573
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,680
Speaker 15: it's for everybody, but I do highly recommend it.

1574
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's my understanding. It's it's it's not for everybody.

1575
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 3: I think it's an inventorian one for everybody. But I

1576
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 3: know that some folks are going to say things that

1577
01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 3: are not congruent with how I feel about it, you know, like,

1578
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 3: well they shouldn't have done the crime, or you know,

1579
01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:28,000
Speaker 3: those kinds of things, which I totally understand, but that's

1580
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: just not.

1581
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,720
Speaker 2: I tell you, watch this. It's pretty hard to come

1582
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 2: away from watching this because I do understand that argument.

1583
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I do too, putting some time into

1584
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 2: the public education system, you know, thank you, fixing a

1585
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 2: lot of p Yeah, it's like we're chasing the dragon

1586
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:50,560
Speaker 2: and you know, not even doing that. Well, so I

1587
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,560
Speaker 2: get that argument so deeply, so well said, as I

1588
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 2: say it, when you actually watch this documentary and you

1589
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 2: really have to, it's important. It's a tough watch, period is.

1590
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 2: It is a tough watch, but it does sort of

1591
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:07,759
Speaker 2: center you up because it's in a world that hopefully

1592
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 2: will never be in and honestly, it's the most unparalleled access.

1593
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 2: I have so many questions about how they actually pulled

1594
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,599
Speaker 2: it off, you know, because you're really inside a prison,

1595
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 2: not a scripted movie, not you know, under like an

1596
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 2: experiment on a reality show. This is like their lives

1597
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 2: are really on the line and their freedom is on

1598
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:34,679
Speaker 2: the line. By having these like hidden cameras. It's crazy,

1599
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 2: It's really it's really worth a watch.

1600
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,680
Speaker 8: And if I'm not mistaken, I think they were sent

1601
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 8: some of the inmates were sent some cameras with phones,

1602
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 8: so they were which is a violation.

1603
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 9: So they're not supposed to have that.

1604
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:50,120
Speaker 2: But the brothers would have gotten no bail. Yeah, but

1605
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 2: they got their bail release, you know, revoked.

1606
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 8: But to your point, when you see the conditions, like

1607
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 8: it was beyond what I started it and I had

1608
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 8: to stop, but it was beyond. Yeah, the conditions are horrendous,

1609
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:05,640
Speaker 8: like the conditions of that prison. And I'm sure there

1610
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:08,320
Speaker 8: are many others in the nation like that. But it

1611
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 8: really is hard to watch, but it needs to be

1612
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 8: seen so more people can understand and changes can happen.

1613
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 4: Right, And things that are hard to watch are also

1614
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 4: so oftentimes the things that we do need to bear

1615
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 4: witness to a lot of people. Anyone who has seen

1616
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:28,919
Speaker 4: the Perfect Neighbor as the documented with documentary.

1617
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 3: And that was very hard to watch, But that was

1618
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 3: also the whole point.

1619
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 4: And I try and tell myself when we're covering horrible stories,

1620
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 4: oh you know this is hard, Well, think about the

1621
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 4: people who are actually living living through whatever the existence

1622
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:47,720
Speaker 4: is to watch it.

1623
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll keep you out of prison too. I'm going

1624
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:52,639
Speaker 2: to tell you talk about getting scared straight like shaw Shaik.

1625
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 2: Redemption is one of those movies that I think really

1626
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 2: has changed my DNA when I saw it, and I

1627
01:31:57,760 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 2: just happened to see it in the theater. I think

1628
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 2: it was such a weird title. I thought I was

1629
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,600
Speaker 2: going into like a movie about disco true story and

1630
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 2: it was the Shawshank Redemption so Record Scratch and like,

1631
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 2: I think I couldn't get into see Forrest Gump. So

1632
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 2: that was the Record Scratch Double Pump edition. So it

1633
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:19,679
Speaker 2: really affected me. I came out a mess, you know, really,

1634
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 2: I was so moved and torn up. I don't even

1635
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 2: know where to start. This had a similar effect on me.

1636
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 2: We can do better as a country. We need to

1637
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 2: do better, and yes, we need to do better in

1638
01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 2: the schools equally so so it's a tough one.

1639
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 3: Well that's the root problem.

1640
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: We need to see it though. We all need to

1641
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 2: sort of right now, we're in see it mode. Let's

1642
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 2: just keep throwing it out there because collectively, I think

1643
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 2: the system needs to be a little reshuited and a

1644
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 2: lot of categories, and I think we can all put

1645
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:55,360
Speaker 2: our minds together to figure out how well we're.

1646
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,800
Speaker 8: Going to unpack it on Tuesday for our true crime

1647
01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 8: and show. All that was to say, everyone watch it,

1648
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:01,560
Speaker 8: going to talk about it on Tuesday.

1649
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:02,600
Speaker 9: So that'll be.

1650
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 3: It's going to be a hard conversation.

1651
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 2: It is, it is, and tomorrow taha. What's on the agenda, Well, there's.

1652
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 8: An online cult known as an online group known as

1653
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 8: Cult and we're going to talk about them, similar to

1654
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,719
Speaker 8: seventy six fours and also lovers Lane murders

1655
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 2: All of that in the right thank good night there,

1656
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 2: good night.