WEBVTT - Don't Be a Cyberbully! 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:18.000 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.200 Welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.240 I am an editor at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.240 Sitting across from me as always a senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.440 I want my two dollars. I haven't thought about that 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:32.560 in a long time. Actually, I accorded from that movie 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.519 not too long ago. But you know what, it's a 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.720 good one. Not sense then, not sense then. So today 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.800 we're actually gonna tackle a pretty serious subject, but it's 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.400 it's one that has had a lot of attention recently 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.600 for various reasons. Um, we're gonna talk about cyber bullying, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.360 and this kind of relates to a previous episode we 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.560 recorded a couple of years ago, the about internet trolls, right, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:02.000 controlls work, cyber bullying being a sort of a specific 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.720 type of internet troll. Yeah, yeah, And um, I think 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.200 it's kind of interesting we're gonna have to people will 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.559 ask about this. Cyber bullying in a lot of ways 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.800 is not especially different in character from Frankly bullying in person. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.679 It's just using the tools of the internet. You know, 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.520 now that we have the ability to publish instantly and frequently. Um, 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.959 you know, people use those tools to pick on others. Yeah, 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.720 and uh, and we've been seeing a lot of this 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:40.040 in the news, uh, from like I said, from various sources, 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:45.520 over various um activities, you know, things that have happened recently. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.240 But the one that kind of spurred this, at least 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:54.040 from my perspective, was the whole Rebecca Black phenomenon train wreck, 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.120 however you want to call it. Right, So, for the 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.880 few of you out there who may not have heard 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.120 of who of Rebecca Black? I suspect most of you 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.920 probably have. Rebecca Black is a thirteen year old girl 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.840 who received an amazing gift her mom um paid for 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:17.040 her to have a music video done. And it's a 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.480 The song is called Friday and let's just get this 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.720 all of the way. It is not a good song. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.160 It is very let's let's the lyrics are banal, would 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.280 you yes? The tune itself is pretty catchy, you know 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.120 it's it's it's one of those that's that's been engineered 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.040 to get stuck in your head and stay there until 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.920 you start to go crazy. But Rebecca Black did not 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.760 write the song but not but she did. She did 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:48.320 perform it, and the song features her voice being auto 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.639 tuned to the point where it sounds almost robotic and 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.600 um and like I said, the lyrics are really really boring, 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.720 but not really that's not really here nor there. She 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.639 uploaded the video to YouTube and then, um, I think 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.840 it was on like February tenth, two thousand eleven that 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.440 she uploaded it to YouTube, and it took about a week. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.840 But then people started to to share this video and 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.639 it went totally viral, and before you knew it, there 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:20.239 were thousands and thousands of views of this video. Yeah. 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.840 I had read an article in preparation on Mashable by 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.760 Todd Wasserman who was basically charting it. And yes, you 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.320 know February tenth, this when it was initially published. Uh 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.080 you remember Michael J. Nelson, don't you? Yes? Yes, of 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:40.080 Mystery Science Theater three thousand and tracks fame. Um. He 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.920 tweeted about it on his Twitter account to he's got 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.600 According to Wasserman, more than nineteen thousand followers, probably had more. 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.120 I didn't actually look this morning right before we decided 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.480 to do this podcast, but um basically said, you know, 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.520 this is a catchy song, but it also answers the 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:01.320 question what's the worst video ever made? It's a quote 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.120 from that and and of course when someone who is 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.720 got that level of followers, you know, you're it's going 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.080 to attract attention. And that's around the time that it 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.360 started picking up, and that was in March. So really, 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.880 I should also point out that I think Total Eclipse 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.680 of the Heart still gives it a run for the 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.159 money as total worst video ever made. But anyway, I'm 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.200 not fond of the song to begin with, let alone 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.279 the video turn around Bright Eyes the uh. At the 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.160 time of the recording of this podcast, which is in 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.839 late March right now, according to YouTube, the video has 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:40.799 had forty seven million, seventy six thousand, three hundred four views. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.680 Oh there's another one. Yeah, And and we should also 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.400 add that YouTube does not update these in real time, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.200 that the numbers update to a schedule that makes sense 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.680 to YouTube basically in batches. Yeah, so so it could 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.920 be that that number is, of course not entirely accurate. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.920 Even as I'm saying this right now into the microphone. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.320 Of course, will not be accurate by the time you 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.800 hear this podcast, so million views, that's a lot. I mean, 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.880 that's an incredible And the song is actually on iTunes 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.919 as well. You can purchase the song on iTunes, and 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.320 a lot of people have done that, and you could 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.400 argue that maybe it's in a sense of irony, they're 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.279 they're ordering it because they think it's so bad. It's 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.440 it's funny, and therefore they're going to get the song. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.000 Some people may legitimately like the song, although they may 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.920 also say that it's a terrible song. Personally, Like I said, 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:34.640 I think the tune is kind of catchy. I think 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:40.040 the the the lyrics again are so ridiculously plain, Like 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.440 it's just it's explaining such a mundane experience that you know, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.560 you can't help but think, wow, this is kind of 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.640 this is really ridiculous, right in a nutshell. It's Friday, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.839 and she's happy about that because it means it's the weekend. 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.680 It's the weekend. And I think it's when you hear 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.880 that Sunday comes afterward. That was the point where I 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.960 was like, really, I mean, just the going down and 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.960 have to get a bowl, have to eat your serial 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:07.919 that was That was a little rough too. But here's 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.039 here's where we're leading with this. This video has prompted 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.479 a lot of people to leave extremely negative comments on 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.200 the YouTube video. Now I would not I don't argue 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.240 that leaving a negative comment for a bad video and 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.240 saying like, wow, this was a really dumb song or 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.960 this was a really dumb video. That's one thing. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.080 I want to point out it may sound since we're 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.599 both kind of negative on the song. I don't want 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.200 to give anyone the wrong impression and think that we 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:41.960 are are anti Rebecca Black or the songwriter, or or 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.840 anyone involved with it. I mean, it's, uh, you know, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:49.159 everyone involved is making an attempt to entertain people, and 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.679 you could say that it was, you know, an unsuccessful attempt, 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.480 or at least it wasn't successful in the way they 0:06:54.520 --> 0:07:00.679 had intended. Right, Even even star musicians can write yeah, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.640 it's not And I'm certainly you know you have the 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.360 old the old saying well, let's see you try it. Well, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.000 you know, I haven't ever written a song, so I 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.280 can't really talk. And you know what, there's some bad 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:15.640 songs out there that have become incredibly popular and became standards. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.679 Someone left the Cake out in the Rain. I'm just saying, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.880 if you look at the lyrics to MacArthur Park, it 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.320 is the dumbest song. I mean, it's dumber than Friday. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.240 People seriously read the lyrics. So yeah, we're not angry 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.800 at at anyone involved with the project, right, But the 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:32.440 point being that there have been a lot of people 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.640 who have left comments that were directed personally at Rebecca Black. 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:38.960 So we're not talking about people who are criticizing the 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.800 song or criticizing the video or saying that, you know, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.400 the subject matter is ridiculous. We're talking about people who 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.920 are directing personal attacks at Rebecca Black to the point 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.680 of saying that you are stupid, or you are ugly, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.280 or you know, uh, you know, things like that, things 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.800 that have nothing to do with the actual subject matter 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.480 but are more of a personal nature that I think 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:05.040 constitute cyber bullying. You know, it's it's it's harassing someone 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:11.720 directly well as a matter of fact. Um she she 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.760 came out in an interview not terribly long ago and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.640 uh said, and I quote at times, it feels like 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:24.200 I'm being cyber bullied end quote, which um, I actually 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.320 found that in an article in Time magazine online by 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:34.320 hands Villa Rica and UM basically he uh was was 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.400 saying that this isn't helping her case because she's drawing 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.320 attention to the fact that she's being attacked and for 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:46.680 some people that leave them to UM. But in that article, 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.959 um Hans also mentioned that UM he had spoken with 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:57.640 Karen Slovak in Ohio University professor UM and she basically 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:02.480 said that cyber bullying is it doesn't really fit this 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.600 what is going on with Rebecca Black necessarily, although it 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.520 may she may change her mind. Now this was done 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.040 uh several days ago, probably about a week and a 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.720 half ago by the time we're recording this, so UM, 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.880 you know what what she said was that cyber bulling 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.960 has done over time, like it's consistently applied. It's not 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.280 one personal attack. If somebody attacks you, that's not bullying, 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.000 is what she's saying. Bullying is something that you know, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.280 the big kid comes up and asks you for your 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.440 lunch money every day, So yeah, I got you. So 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.480 it's it's repeated and it's yes, over it got you. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.120 But at this point you might argue that by now, 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.640 now that it's been several weeks and it's still going 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:48.760 on that it is it has graduated to actual cyber bullying. Um, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.680 but yeah, they they He spoke to several experts about 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.040 it and said, um, you know, yeah, it may not 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.480 necessarily be cyber bullying, but it is definitely a personal attack, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:03.480 and uh know it's it's painful to the person being attacked. Ye, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.360 and she has said as much. Chris and I have 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:10.360 talked offline about how sometimes you know, we get negative reviews, 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.320 and that's legitimate. You know, if people don't like what 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.040 we do, then I I don't think there's any reason 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.840 why they shouldn't say so, or why they cannot offer 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:23.160 criticisms or anything like that. But occasionally we get uh 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:28.040 personal attack comments, things that things that are not criticisms 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.680 or helpful in any way. They're just you know, you're 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.960 stupid or something like that. And that hurts, you know, 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.320 even even as a grown adult. You know, there's there's 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.680 an element, there's an emotional element there. And yeah, I 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.480 don't even know this person as far as I know. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.600 This person could be uh like the person who directs 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.640 an attack towards me, maybe someone who I would never 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.360 care for or respect in person if I met them. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.040 But that's beside the point that you don't. It doesn't 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.320 feel good to get that kind of stuff, and if 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.520 you get enough of it, it could really affect yourself image. Now, fortunately, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.040 with the the case of Rebecca Black, it appears that 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.400 she's got a pretty level head on her, which that's 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.400 amazing because she's thirteen. When I was thirteen, I did 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.679 not have a level head. Um, technically I don't right now. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.959 It's kind of rounded. But anyway, the uh no, it's 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.000 when you're when you're thirteen. Sorry, I'm interacted. I was 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:22.120 going to say that that's you know, that's a a 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.240 troublesome time. You're going through a lot of changes in 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.920 your life. Um, you know, starting to come into your 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.800 own as an adult, and you know the the opinion 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.200 of your peers is very important to you. Yeah, and 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.400 we have a lot of listeners who are in that 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.400 age range twelve to uh to sixteen. So imagine having 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:43.160 literally thousands of people saying that you are not worth anything. 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.319 So there were I remember Rebecca Black did an interview 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.880 with Good Morning America in which she said that there 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.760 were people leaving comments saying things like you should starve yourself, 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.560 you're too fat, or you should cut yourself or things 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.160 like that. I mean people saying that you should harm yourself, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.600 that that's me. That's a threat, is really what that 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.679 comes down to. It may not be a threat that 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.040 anyone's going to act on, but you get enough of those, 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.600 and that's really gonna affect yourself worth if you aren't careful. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.240 And like I said, apparently, uh, Rebecca Black has a 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.360 very good um um. She she's she's comfortable with herself 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.400 enough where that's not affecting her um. And she says 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.960 that she no longer is paying attention to the negative reviews, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.200 which is helping a lot. And she's also taking steps. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.920 I mean, she's making some serious money off of this 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.520 this music video, and that's of course fueling more people 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.760 to even up the ante and talking about how ridiculous 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.160 it is, how terrible it is. But the fact is 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.160 is that at least on one one analyst I saw 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.440 said that they had projected she would make around twenty 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.959 thousand dollars off iTunes and another twenty five thousand off YouTube. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.480 I might have those mixed up, um, And that was 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.560 just one analyst, so it may be that it could 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.880 be more than that. Rebecca Black by the Way has 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.800 also said that she's going to donate some of her 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:03.640 proceedings to uh to relief efforts for the victims of 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.080 the Japan earthquake and tsunami, and that she's also donating 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.600 some of the money to her own school. I think 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.600 that's remarkable, you know, it's an amazing thing. So considering 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.599 the storm she weathered, I think that she's she's behaved admirably. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.120 Now to get back to the people who are directing 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:25.760 these attacks. The internet is a weird thing. Uh. We 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:30.520 see there are cases of bandwagons that go for or 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.079 against certain causes, and sometimes it doesn't make much sense, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.120 but you'll see that that they'll become there'll be this 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:44.600 sort of groundswelling of support for or against certain people. Uh. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.400 And sometimes it's a great thing. So for example, in 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:53.000 the case of of Katie Goldman, Katie Goldman was the 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.120 young girl who loved Star Wars and she would but 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.120 she was getting teased when she would go to school 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.000 because she had a little Star our Wars backpack and 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.600 Star Wars lunch box and things, and she was told 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.960 by the boys that Star Wars is something that boys like, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.600 not what girls like. And she she felt she felt 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.000 a lot of pressure from her peers and that that 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.280 she was doing something wrong and she would actually she 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.840 came to her mom and said that she wanted like 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.120 a pink lunch box, something that didn't have Star Wars 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.560 on it, because she didn't want to be teased anymore. Well, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.160 there was this huge ground swelling of support amongst the 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.720 internet because first of all, a lot of us are geeks. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.520 I incured myself, and we think there's nothing wrong with 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.800 being a geek. And I agree, there's nothing wrong with that. 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.680 And so a lot of people through support at this 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.520 young girl. She received tons of gifts from people, She 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.720 received messages from folks who have been in Star Wars 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.760 property projects. I mean, she she got a lot of support, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.240 and it was really heartwarming to see that, Like this 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.240 is a This is a bunch of people saying, no, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.239 it's good, you should be who you are. That's okay, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.720 don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Then you see this 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.640 Rebecca Black video come out, and you see kind of 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.800 the opposite. You see all these people piling on saying 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.080 you're terrible, why are you doing this? Your music is horrible, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.360 You're not worth anything, and it I can't help, but 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.280 suspect that there's at least some overlap that some of 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.560 the people who piled on Rebecca Black were the same 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.760 ones who thought you go girl for Kitty Coldman. And 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.720 the hypocrisy there is kind of amazing. Why should Kitty 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.840 Goldman be proud of who she is but Rebecca Black 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.240 be ashamed of who she is? Right, that's a mixed message. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:35.360 So that again is what spurred the whole cyber bullying story. Now, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.320 the actual stories about cyber bullying go well beyond Rebecca Black, Right, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.520 we have had a lot of different stories come out 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.320 in the news about particularly about teenagers who have either 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.320 committed suicide or attempted suicide. And and at least part 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.520 of the reason for that that horrible decision, uh stemmed 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:02.800 from cyber bullying online and uh and and that's just 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:08.120 it's it's so unthinkably terrible to me that that people 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.280 online can feel the freedom to criticize or bully other folks. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.200 I think part of it is that when you're online, 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.760 if you're the attacker, you kind of feel a sense 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.880 of distance, like the words you're saying don't really impact anything, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.240 because you're not really telling the person to their face. 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:32.320 You're telling a website or you're telling a screen these things, right, Well, 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.840 a lot of people wouldn't have the courage to go 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.920 up to that person or yeah, or even if it's 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.560 not courage, I mean, yes, I think that's a that's 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.840 that's definitely a legitimate point. But there's some people who 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.760 if you were to present them with a computer screen 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.360 or the actual person and you know, whatever it was 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.200 that triggered that that comment, if the person were there, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.480 it wouldn't necessarily even be a matter of courage. It's 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.400 that that cultural pressure of saying, no, you don't say 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.960 that to a person. That's just wrong. You wouldn't come 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.760 up to a person and say, you know, you're you're 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.760 ugly or you're fat or whatever. I mean some people would, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.320 but well most people would not. But then you show 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.639 them on a screen. You've got that level of distance there, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.600 and suddenly that some of those those cultural barriers that 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.800 would prevent you from doing such a thing in person 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.520 are gone, and you don't feel restrained, so you start 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.880 doing But the problem is that those words still hurt 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.840 when you read them, right, Yeah, I was just thinking too. 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:35.880 Another thing that you have sort of spurring this along too, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.320 is maybe you're you've decided somebody mentioned the video to 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.639 You've gone to YouTube, and now all of a sudden 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.040 you can read all the other people who are attacking 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:48.320 her for the quality of the song and of the video, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.240 and you go, you know what, this does stink? And 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.040 you know, and look at her, look at her, You're 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.440 gonna weigh in, Yeah, exactly, or so it's a it's 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.440 a mob mentality exactly online and you get you get 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.640 that that thing. You know. You might think, oh, I've 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.760 got this great, great snappy bar, but then I want 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.240 to throw in there. And you're doing it as part 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.120 of a mask conversation, right, You're not necessarily thinking I'm 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.719 directing this at someone. I'm just I got this funny 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.439 thing that's really really sharp and cruel and acidic, and 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.919 it's gonna be awesome and people are gonna laugh, not 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.600 thinking ultimately the target of this is a thirteen year 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:28.280 old girl. So um, yeah, there's a lot of those 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.399 elements there. So and this is kind of again like 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.440 armchair psychology and armchair sociology, but there have been several 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:41.280 studies about cyber bullying. There's actually a I found a 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.399 document called cyber Bullying Research Summary cyber Bullying and Suicide, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.920 which was very disturbing to me. And in the highlights 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:54.480 from the research section, the report says that they surveyed 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.560 students who are are young people who had been um 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.880 active online and tried to determine, you know, how many 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.920 of them had admitted to either considering or even attempting suicide, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.080 how many of them had been victims of bullying, how 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.400 many of them have been victims of cyber bullying specifically. Well, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.480 the highlights from the survey said that of all the 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:22.199 respondents reported seriously thinking about attempting suicide, so that was 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.720 disturbing on its own, and then that all forms of 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:32.320 bullying were significantly associated with increases in suicidal ideation. So 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.560 in other words, UH, the people who had seriously considered 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.040 attempting suicide, more of them had been victims of bullying 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.240 than otherwise, right, And that cyber bullying victims were almost 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.600 twice as likely to have attempted suicide compared to youth 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:52.080 who had not experienced cyber bullying. So the survey at 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.520 least suggests that they and this was around two thousand 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:02.160 randomly selected UH students from middle school age. So two 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.879 thousand people, that's a decent size, right, That's that's a 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.640 it's not a you know, you couldn't call it definitive 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.679 or anything, but it's it's a good size for a study. Um, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.480 that suggests that there is a definite link to cyber 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.760 bullying and your sense of self worth as well as 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:25.560 your likelihood to consider suicide. So those words really do count. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.520 I mean, we we've all heard the little rhyme of 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.000 sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.520 never hurt me. That's not really true. Those words can 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:39.080 be really, really impactful. And because of that, and because 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:44.760 of the attention on recent cases of tragic suicides and 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.239 and cyber bullying in particular, there's been a lot of 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:53.240 uh proposed legislation in both state and federal venues to 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:59.960 ban cyber bullying or to punish cyber bullying. Probably probably 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.640 the most notable case of cyber bullying that has um 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:10.120 led to these efforts, these legislative efforts was Megan Meyer. Um. 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:12.359 It was very very well known. Yeah, I but I 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.800 believe we talked about her in the troll episode. I 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:19.040 believe I'm thinking so too. Um and Jonathan wrote a 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.360 post on it back on Mail eleven, two thousand nine 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.320 called Internet trolls come under Fire. UM, And at that 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.880 point we were talking about legislation. UM. But what had 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:35.080 happened Megan Meyer was had a friend who lived just 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:41.320 four houses away from her and UM, the other girl's mother, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:46.600 and she basically had decided that they were growing apart. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.120 Apparently the two girls were growing apart, and they were 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.800 concerned that Megan might have been telling stories about her, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.679 so they decided to get back at Megan. Yeah, they 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.320 were trying to apparently trying to figure out what was 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.359 being said, seeing if there was a way to win 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.719 her trust through another method to uh, to see if 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.960 they can figure out what she was saying about the 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.560 other girl and and you know, possibly do a little 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.800 punishment to UM. I think I think from what I've read, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.159 I think it sort of went awry because they had 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.080 a family friend who has said that she was the 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.000 one who came up with the idea to do this. 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:27.400 They created a fake uh persona on my Space UM 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.119 and befriended Megan Meyer. Yeah. It was It was a 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.280 boy and it was showing interest in Megan Meyers. So 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.800 you've already got that romantic, you know, and they picked 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:37.680 they picked a picture that was a very good looking 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.400 young man. Yeah. So you know, think about you are 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.600 a teenager, you're you know, you might have some insecurities, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.240 and then you have this good looking person suddenly showing 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.439 an interest in you. I mean that that makes you 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.880 feel good, right, And they did start up a virtual 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:58.240 friendship with this this fake persona and this real girl, 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.120 and then they they began using the persona to make 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:07.520 personal attacks on Megan. Yeah. They they first won her 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.959 trust and then they started to use it to criticize her, 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:17.760 to insult her, uh and to belittle her. Um. And 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:23.879 so eventually, uh, she decided to hang herself because she 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.600 was very upset about some of the things that that 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:32.000 were said. And the mother, Laurie Drew Um, was charged 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:37.240 on several counts UM. But the case really sort of 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:39.280