WEBVTT - Selects: What exactly is stoicism? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:05.040 Hi, everybody. I'm feeling very stoic today, so we're going 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:11.039 to use what exactly is Stoicism as our weekly select selection. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.160 This one was released in July July fourth in Fact 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.560 twenty seventeen. What a great for the July topic. Learn 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:28.320 all about stoicism right here, right now. Welcome to Stuff 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:36.320 You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.600 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:45.559 Charles W. Chuck Bryant guest producer. Noel's Jerry's been out 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.159 a lot lately, Chuck, have you noticed? 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.519 No, No, I haven't heard it. Of course, Jerry's got 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.600 big life things going on. She does buying and selling houses. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.640 She's like a real estate mogul. 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.680 Visiting the mall of stuff. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.560 We're just a couple of deep thinkers hanging out on 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:07.400 the stoa. 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:16.360 Yeah, specifically, what is it this soa? Did you practice 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.280 the word the pronunciation at all? 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.080 I tried to pronounce a lot of this, but you 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.080 know ancient Greek, you know the phrase. It's all Greek 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.880 to me. Yeah, it comes from not being able to 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:29.720 pronounce these things. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:36.360 It's quite literal, the the stoa poikily. I think that's 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:37.840 probably pretty close, man. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.440 So can I start this with a couple of quick thoughts? 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:42.440 Sure? 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.320 First of all, I took a I took four different 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:52.320 philosophy quizzes before we recorded, like. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.520 What kind of philosophy do you subscribe to? Type quiz? 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.320 Yeah, you know the ones that are super accurate, right, 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.800 because they can figure that out in eight to fifan questions. 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:02.640 Sure, and then you can move on and find out 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:03.480 what muppet you are. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.239 So here's here's my result here. For the first one, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:13.120 I was epicurean okay, the second one existentialism all right, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:18.640 third one atheist existentialist huh. And the fourth Nietzsche slash stoic. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.280 Nietzsche was a huge critic of stoicism. I'm surprised they 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:24.320 put those two together. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.800 Well that that is chuck though. 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.200 You know what I'm saying, Yeah, you're you're a contradiction 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.280 in terms, you're yin and yang. 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:34.320 Well I am, and that The reason why I took 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.639 these is because when I was doing the research on stoicism, 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.120 I found me. I found myself a lot of times 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.880 going yep, yep totally, and then a lot of times 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:46.120 going no, that's really not me. 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.840 Same here, same here, and I think even the Stoics 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.320 from back in the day realized that there were very few, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.360 very very few actual what they called sages walking around 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:05.080 Stoics ages who really fulfilled every aspect of this to 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.840 a t. And I think that I think one of 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.520 the reasons why Stoicism today is making a comeback and 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.120 it's so appealing is because, well there's two reasons. One 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:20.959 more than kind of a navel gazing type philosophy where 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.320 you're trying to figure out the nature of existence or 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.079 something like that, it's more a blueprint for existing day 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:33.080 to day in a in a useful, happy way. And 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:39.160 then secondly, it's a you can kind of pick and choose. 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.040 It's almost like a buffet. You can pick and choose 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.360 what aspects of it you want to adopt or use, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.520 and know, you know, Greek ghost is going to come 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.080 along and spear you in the face. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:58.360 With a trident, right punch. Yeah, And I think that's 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.160 I mean, first of all, the Age of Reason fascinates 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.360 me to no end, and second, I've kind of wanted 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:11.200 to cover some of the great philosophies of all time. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.800 This sounds like a good start, well it is, but. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.320 It's just kind of daunting, because people spend like that's 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.120 their life's work, you know, and for us to try 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.000 and summarize any of them in thirty to forty five 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.440 minutes is kind of like, you know, I don't know 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:31.840 what philosophy. You would liken that to foolishism, duncism. That's 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.760 what we do. You know, Well, how about this. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.080 If this one goes well, maybe we'll take it as 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:37.760 a sign that we can tackle some other ones. But 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.600 you're absolutely right, like even the even just like say 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.120 the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, which is meant you know, 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.560 it's sharp, and it's detailed, and it's exhaustive, but it's 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.680 also clearly meant for lay people interested in philosophy. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:51.920 Right. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:59.200 It's just this just stoicism is so involved that it's 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.720 not possible for us to like really capture all of it, 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.800 even get in an overview, you know, or giving it 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.800 just hitting the highlights. We can't possibly hit all the highlights. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.280 There's just too much to it. And that's just stoicism. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.880 I still say it's worth talking about though, just because 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:15.760 it's so interesting. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.240 So if I get up in the middle, you're gonna 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.000 pull me back. I'll just keep going well. I like 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:26.120 the Urban Dictionary definition stoic is someone who does not 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.400 give a peep about the stupid things in this world 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.400 that most people care so much about. Stoics do have emotions, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.280 but only for the things in this world that really matter. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.719 They are the most real people alive. And then in 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.920 their little example, as a group of kids sitting by 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:45.240 the porch, stoic walks by, one can says something very mean, Hey, 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.919 you're a blankety blank and you blank blank, and the 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.000 stoic says good for you and keeps going right. It's 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:52.640 a part of me really like I hear that, and 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:56.120 I'm like, man, I am so that person on so 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.240 many levels. But then sometimes I'm totally not, and I 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.120 think what the difference is or what matters is well, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.600 it depends on if they say something that matters to you, 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.640 or if something does matter to you. Like I might 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:13.080 get really riled up about some. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.240 Stuff well that would make you not stoic, that. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.920 Doesn't rile anyone else up, But I also some things 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.520 that really make other people I rate. I'm just like man, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.080 can't change it. It is what it is, and I 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.640 only can get upset about the things that can change. 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.040 Yeah, if you could apply that to everything, you'd be 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.600 pretty high up there in the Stoic pantheon. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.240 That'd be a Stoic matt five star general. 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.920 Pretty much five finger punch guy. 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:47.840 All Right, so we beat around the bush. I mean, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.760 that was a pretty good definition actually, even though it's 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:50.839 from the Urban Dictionary. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.320 But we should say we picked that one up from 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.120 an Aon article why Stoicism is one of the best 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:57.279 mind hacks ever devised. 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.080 That was a good one by Larry Wallace. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.960 Yeah, you did a good job kind of giving an 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:02.960 overview of the whole thing. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.200 I think Larry Wallace is one of the great modern Stoicists. 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.320 Maybe there's plenty of them running around these days. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.000 Yeah, but we're I mean, we'll go back in time 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.080 and study the beginnings of stoicism because we're talking about 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.560 like you hear the word stoic today, right, and it 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.240 means it was taken from this, but it's kind of 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.840 someone like sort of a grim face. Stoic doesn't say 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:29.760 much and that's not what stoicism and they say in 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.320 our article several times with a capital less really is 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:34.640 all about, right. 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.920 Yeah, to these days people typically or I should say 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:42.040 these days. Up to about three years ago, people thought 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.640 of stoics as somebody who could watch their dog get 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.280 hit by a car and you know their reaction was 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.560 to raise their chin a little higher up in the air, 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:54.480 you know, like just grin and Barrett, as Larry put it, Larry, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.000 where I'm on a first name basis with Larry Wallace 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.840 layer that it's a philosophy of grin, endurance, tolerating rather 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:06.520 than transcending life's agonies and adversities, just kind of trudging through, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.760 just taking hit after hit from life as it deals 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.680 them to you. Right, that was the idea of stoicism. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.040 You can kind of like it's not like that's just 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:25.480 radically unlike actual stoicism, but it's an outsider's interpretation of 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.240 what the stoics are actually doing, what's actually going on, 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.680 the purpose of the whole thing, That outsider's view that 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.960 doesn't really fully understand. It became the popular view until recently, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.520 until it started to kind of gain some traction lately. 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.120 Yeah, And you know, throughout the year, stoicism has informed 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.319 some religions these days. There are a lot of atheists, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:52.720 there are stoics, But I like how our article says it. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.439 Above all, it teaches the value of emotional control in 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.160 living one's life fully. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.080 Yeah. So here's the base of it. The basis of 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:09.280 it is if you can detach yourself from emotional responses 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.959 to things, then something that comes along, whether good or bad, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.240 is not going to get your goat. Stoicism is all 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.560 about protecting your goat and not letting anything get it. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.640 And the way that they do that is by saying, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.040 there are very few things that I can control in life, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.559 and everything that I can't control, I'm not going to 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.680 get up riled up over, you know, lose my job. Well, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.920 it happens. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:37.960 I just need to go out and get another job. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.280 Dog gets hit by a car, Well that's really awful 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.160 because I really like that dog. But I'll just go 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.439 get another dog. Or maybe I'll just learn to live 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.360 without the dog. Maybe I was becoming too attached to 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.319 the dog. Things like that. That's stoicism. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:52.640 Yeah. 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.000 The whole point of it is it's not just to 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.040 get your goat or to protect your goat from being gotten. 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:06.000 It's about out living a moral life where you're a 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.040 very good human being and The idea is that the 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.040 only way to really do that is through things like 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:16.840 rationalism and investigating the universe and being understanding of knowledge 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:23.520 and then pursuing ethics, specific ethics, and they figured out 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.479 the best way to do that is dispassionately. 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:31.040 Yeah, I think my bumper sticker would say onboard Colon, 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.640 part time stoicist, full time dreamer. 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:39.880 Okay, that is a specific yeah, right, bumper sticker. 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.000 I used to have a lot of bumper stickers in 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.280 high school, and now I hit loathe them so much. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:45.640 Really, what did you have? 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:49.360 Like? Oh, I had an old Volkswagen Beetle and that 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.439 was my family actually bought brand new in nineteen sixty 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.200 eight and was passed down from kid to kid to kid, 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.520 and it was it was very cool. I thought at 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.800 the time, well, it is cool, love those old Beatles. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.079 But I just went through one of those phases where 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.520 I was like, you know, here's a Native American saying 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.480 and here's something about mother nature and this Bob Marley 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.400 had this to say, and oh, just yeah, I was 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.680 one of those. And now I see those cars with 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:22.280 all the things and I'm just like, shut up, nobody cares. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.240 Yeah, for sure, I mean did you have a three 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:27.120 eleven sticker? 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.360 No, this was pre three eleven. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.960 Actually, okay, gotcha. So did your mom come out and 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.600 be like, what'd you do to the family heirloom? No 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:36.000 stickers over? 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.000 No, it's funny that that car had a the rear 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.520 floorboard was missing on one side. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.320 My dad had a car like that, a Malibu, so. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:46.319 You could like see the street. 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.280 Uh huh there, Now that I look back, he didn't 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.600 even have a piece of wood. Now that I look back, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.920 I'm like, that was extraordinarily irresponsible to be driving around 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.080 with kids in the back seat. Yeah, with the street visible. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:03.280 Yeah, I love that. Your dall was just like watch your. 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.720 Feet kids, Yeah, easy, does it? 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.000 Uh? All right? So look, you want to go back 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:10.320 and talk about the history a little. 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.040 Bit, No, I want to keep beating around the butt. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.280 All right. Let's get in the way back machine and okay, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.480 we need to really juice it up because we're going 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:19.120 way back. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.120 Got some kerosene, got some banana peels, huh, and got 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.800 some airplane glue. But that's just for us. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:34.560 That's right, because it's a long ride. Yeah, Ancient Greece 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.079 is where we're headed to the time of the Great philosophers. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.280 And like we said earlier, sitting here on the stoa, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.280 that was a joke, but it wasn't. And you you, 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.120 you know, you said, Stoa, You're gonna try it again. 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.320 The stoa poikilely yes, or painted porch is what it means. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.120 And that was a public space in Athens grease. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.800 It was like a portico, yeah, where people. 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.400 Would hang out and talk and chew the fat. And 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.600 that's what I love about this time. People just they 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.120 were just alive with ideas, these philosophical ideas of trying 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:07.160 to figure it all out. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.960 Yeah, but don't you think like every once a while 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.119 you just be like, oh, everybody, shut up, I live. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:15.680 I gotta do something useful. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:21.360 Yeah, plan talking. Yeah, you know, but I agree with you. Overall, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.720 it was a pretty thrilling time. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.680 Did you take philosophy in college at all? No? 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.040 No, I didn't. I really did not. I don't think 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.000 I took a single philosophy class now that I think 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:34.160 about it, not even a survey. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.920 I took the one kind of general class. I guess 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:38.480 it was the one I won. And I actually made 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.640 an A which I didn't make a ton of a's 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.120 in college. And I remember at the time kind of 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.200 the same thing. About half the class I was like, man, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.440 so fascinating, and then the other half I was just like, oh, man, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.400 what a waste of time. I do something useful, go 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.800 like volunteer for a charity. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.600 Go make something out of wood, anything. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.800 All right, So back to the Stoa. We're on this 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.959 painted porch, this portico, as it were. People are everywhere 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.800 running their mouths about what they think is important. And 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:16.880 then this dude wanders up. Zeno of Citium, Yeah, who 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.400 had recently been shipwrecked. And there were other zenos. Not 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:21.240 to be confused. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.360 I know that is confusing. There should be one Zeno. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.320 There can be in all of history. 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.680 There were zenos of other things. But this is Zeno 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.120 of Cidium. And you're right, he was shipwrecked and he 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.960 was wandering around after a trip from Cyprus. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:37.520 Did you say we're in Athens. 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.400 Oh yeah, not Georgia. No, although we did our fair 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.600 shriff sitting around on porches talking nonsense there as well. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.240 But that's a porch porch, yeah, had a Greek porch. 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.680 And so Xeno took a little bit of insight from 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.400 the Synics and then eventually said, you know what, I 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.880 could my kind of forming my own thoughts here, and 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.800 I think everyone else is doing it. I have my 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:02.840 own philosophy. 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.920 Yeah, and it's called Stoicism, Yeah, named after later later 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:08.640 I don't think he called it that. I'm not sure 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.880 he probably called it Zenoism. They're like, yeah, that sucks, 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.440 We're gonna call it stoicism after the porch. Yeah, but 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.680 this is I mean, like the Stoicism very quickly became 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:23.800 one of the big philosophies at the time, and it 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.160 rivaled some of the philosophies that it grew out of, 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:31.720 like Socratic philosophy and like you said, cynicism, the cynics. Sure, 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.840 And actually, if you look at Stoicism, it's kind of 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:41.360 a compromise between Socrates or so Crates, as Bill and 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.920 Ted call them, philosophy, which was that to lead a 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.240 good life. And this was the point of all of 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.000 the philosophies at this time, during this Age of Reason, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.200 was achieving what was called you diemonia, and you diemonia 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.160 is a life worth living. It's thriving, it's flourishing, it's 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.720 being happy, like real happiness. Right. That was the pursuit 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.160 of all of these different ideas that were floating around 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.440 at the time was how to achieve that. Socrates had 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:15.720 the idea that you achieved that through like twelve cardinal virtues, 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.520 and some of them were things you could cultivate in yourself, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.080 like courage, a sense of justice, that kind of stuff. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.640 But then there are other ones too that had like 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.560 everything to do with luck, Like being good looking was 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.840 one of them. Right, Yeah, if you weren't good look, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.400 if you were ugly, sorry, buddy, you could never achieve 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.680 you diemonia. Right on the other end of the spectrum 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:40.360 where the cynics and the cynics believed that earthly trappings 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:46.280 like wealth and fame and glory anything like that was 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.920 the path to ruin and that the true path to 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.240 you diemonia was living simply and living in poverty. And 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.080 so Zeno comes along and here's all these and as 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.440 he's formulating his own ideas, he's like, Socrates make some 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.120 sense over here, and so do the cynics a little bit. 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.359 But I'm going to put them together. And that's where 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.000 Stoicism came from. It was a compromise between the two 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:12.840 where you live a life of pursuing you diemonia through 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:20.040 these virtues for virtues. I think there's justice, courage, wisdom, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.920 and then temperance, right, So you're practicing those four virtues. 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:29.240 So that's kind of a nod to Socrates. And you 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.720 don't have to live in poverty. You can be wealthy, 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:38.120 because if stoicism is anything, it's wealthy people who got 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.960 into philosophy that weren't quite sure how to feel about 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:42.639 being wealthy. 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.159 Yeah, to say to kind of come to the point that, 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.200 like happing money is not a bad thing, right, right. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.600 And so was what they came up with was, sure, 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.479 you can be wealthy, and that's okay. You can prefer 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.119 to be wealthy, but you just can't be attached to it. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.080 You can't desire to be wealthy because you can't control 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.320 being wealthy. And if you pursue being wealthy, you're pursuing 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.560 something beyond your control. So if you just happen to 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.800 be wealthy, that's great. You can be happy with it, 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.520 but also be prepared to lose it at any given time, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.760 and that's a big part of stoicism. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.560 Yeah. I think it's so funny though to think about, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.440 like thousands of years ago in ancient Greece, like they 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.320 spent so much time thinking about living this all these 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:33.200 schools have thought of living this life so like putting 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.320 so much thought into living life to its fullest and 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.480 all the different ways that they defined it and eventually, 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.879 like over the years, like as recently as like the 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:48.239 generation of our parents and grandparents the United States, like 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.919 the philosophy of life was like you just go to 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.680 work and you work hard until you die, and that's 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.919 the only thing that matters exactly, Like all that other 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:57.960 stuff is garbage. 0:18:58.320 --> 0:18:59.840 Yeah, well, I think that's one of the reasons why 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.639 stoicism is becoming appealing again, is this idea that, like 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.960 work seems to be kind of going through a weird transformation, 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.239 doesn't it. Yeah, Like it's not like that anymore. Like 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.760 that ethic is still around for sure, but like, how 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.440 many people do you know work from home? Like almost 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.000 entirely A lot a lot, And that's fairly new. So 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.800 I wonder if like this changing work dynamic is leading 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.960 to this resurgence in stoicism that you can find happiness 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:30.840 through other stuff. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.080 I mean, part of me thinks this is all like 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.720 super worthwhile, and part of me thinks and it's sort 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.240 of indulgent to set and a bit like you said, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:44.600 naval gaysy and like put just start practicing good things 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.800 instead of sitting around thinking about the best way to 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:48.439 live life. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.560 Well, we'll talk about criticisms of them later on, but 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:53.680 I think you hit a big one though, Chuck, was 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.880 the idea that it's self indulgent because it demands introspection 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.359 almost every mo of every day. Yeah, you want to 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:03.719 take a break and then get back to it. 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.959 Yeah, I gotta, I gotta get my head together. Where's 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.399 the airplane glue? All right? 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.560 Nothing like airplane glue to get your head back on straight. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.879 Just kidding, of course. Everyone. Sure we're smart guys, we 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:42.760 don't do that kind of thing. 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.040 No, it's pretty tough to be smart and huff model 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.600 airplane glue. Yeah, you're pretty much making a choice between 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:50.880 that and being smart. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.080 That's what they teach you early on. Yeah, like you 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.040 want to go somewhere life, you want to half airplane glue. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:21:01.359 It's the one thing Nancy Reagan didn't lie about. All right, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:08.119 So Zeno got things going. Peace of mind that comes 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.280 with living a life of virtue in accordance with reason 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.800 and nature. And then other dudes got on boards, and 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.000 of course got on boards got on board, and they 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.679 were all dudes back then, because everything was from the 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.880 man's perspective. Uh just want to point that out. 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.360 Yeah, because it's changed so dramatically since then. 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:29.240 But some of the other early stoicist Clianthes Kato. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:35.080 Kato the younger, elder younger, right, Kato the klin oh 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:36.320 I forgot about him. 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:37.359 I'm not sure which Kto. 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.440 I think it's the younger. Yeah, we'll find out from 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.000 two people who email. 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:50.080 In to Seneca. And then a very important stoicis Uh. Well, 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:51.280 I'm going to pronounce. 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:59.760 It epic epet Epictetus, epictetus. Epetic sounds like a vaccine shot. 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.560 It does E P I C T E T U s. 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:04.560 It's that C. 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.679 Going into a T that's getting you. Yeah, it's just 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.720 Epictetus or Epictetus. I think epictetis is what we should 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:12.000 go with. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:13.560 I want another C in there. I want it to 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:14.879 be Epitectus, but it's not. 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.120 No, it's not. It's Epictetus, all right. So u oh, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:20.960 and don't forget Marcus Aurelius Man. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:22.960 Oh well, sure, I mean he comes a little bit later. 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:29.119 He was he was the ruler of anthant Man. What 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:30.679 is my problem today. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.040 It's okay, man, everyone knew what you meant. 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.159 He was the philosopher king, and that was when Stoicism 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:40.720 was kind of the most popular thing going. Yeah. Yeah. 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.600 Apparently they moved from Athens to Rome, which I didn't 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:49.280 realize this. I always had the idea that Rome venerated 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:55.440 Hellenistic Greece hundreds of years after basically the Greek civilization 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.280 had had just kind of, you know, gone into a 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:02.160 bit of a twilight or had gone out of its heyday. No, 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.960 there was total cross pollination, including some of these early 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:10.520 Stoics who traveled from Athens to Rome, and basically with 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:14.040 with that move transferred the seed of philosophy from Athens 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.639 to Rome, from Greek to Rome to Rome, from Greece 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.679 to Rome. I didn't realize that there were they were 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.360 actually like cross pollinating one another at the time. Did 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:23.800 you know that? 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.960 I think I recalled that from deep in my college memory. 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:28.879 Banks nice. 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:29.600 Uh. 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:35.199 So Epitectus Tetus man he had a big role in 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:40.679 the Stoic movement. He was a former slave, which kind 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.000 of makes sense in terms of Stoicism. 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:51.760 He almost almost single handedly gives credence to Stoicism because 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:56.199 so many other Stoics were extraordinarily wealthy, powerful man sure 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.960 that it's like, yeah, it's pretty easy for you to 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.520 go through life saying, you know, it's just just take 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:04.920 what life gives you. If life is giving you nothing 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:07.960 but gold bullion all the time. Right, this guy was 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:12.880 born a slave, crippled in the knee for life and 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.320 became a Stoic, one of the great Stoic thinkers, and 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.400 just through his life proved that stoicism can work. 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.159 Yeah, And he wrote a handbook at the time was 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:28.120 called an Encritean, and he wrote the Encridian of Epictetus. 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.639 Incridium literally means handbook. It means ready at hand. 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:35.679 So it was a very famous handbook. And he attributed 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:38.960 I mean, the first line of it was some things 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:41.919 are in our control and others not right, and that 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:43.920 kind of sums it all up, like he could have 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.040 said the end, but he decided to dive a little deeper. 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:51.760 I agree with you. I think our brand of Stoicism 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:56.160 has about the same contours because that that right there, 0:24:56.200 --> 0:24:58.320 that's all. That's everything you need to know, right there 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.240 is some things you can control, most things you can't control. 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:04.600 There you go, don't get too. 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:08.040 High, too low, right, don't get too mad about something. 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:10.879 Well, ultimately, I think that's what it boils down to. 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:14.639 I don't really find much of a problem when people 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:19.000 are overjoyed. I don't think that's an issue. And technically, 0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:21.840 with stoicism, that is a that's a problem. You should 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:26.320 not become overjoyed. Experiencing joy is fine, sure, but just 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:31.840 being like overcome with happiness or joy or grief or 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:36.200 whatever it is, you're you're violating one of those four 0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:40.440 cardinal virtues, temperance, which is just being tempered and even keeled. 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:41.040 Right. 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.800 So, but I think if you're saying, don't get upset 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:47.840 about something that's out of your control, don't blame others, 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.359 don't try to control other people, just know that whatever 0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:53.800 comes you can handle it. There you go, That's all 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:54.639 you need to know for me. 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:57.439 Yeah, and you know, I mean, how many times have 0:25:57.480 --> 0:25:59.200 you heard me say it is what it is? Which 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.480 is an annoying thing to hear and say. 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:02.719 But it's pretty stoic. 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:05.639 Well it is, but it's also in my case, it 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.639 is what it is until it isn't. It just matters 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:12.000 if I personally riled up about something, you know. 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:16.440 Yeah, but I think again though, if like, there's probably 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:21.520 some people who listen who subscribe to at least modern 0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.600 stoicism listening to this, and I would guess that they 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:28.760 would say that's because stoicism is basically meant to apply 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:31.359 to every day of your life. Like, no, Stoics are 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.879 really expected to become stages in their lifetimes, right that 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:37.960 it's something you just do every single day, is try 0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:40.639 to not get riled up. But of course something's going 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:42.399 to come along and get you riled up. That's just 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:46.760 human nature. Stoicism is trying to put a bridle on 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.040 that human nature. 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.520 Yeah, well, and this is insider stuff. I think you 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:56.159 and I compliment each other because we rarely get worked 0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:57.480 up about the same thing. 0:26:58.200 --> 0:26:59.280 Just voter suppression. 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:02.119 Well, no, it happens here and there, but just in 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.239 our personal lives and everything to do with work, Like 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.880 oftentimes I've noticed, like something that'll rile me up, you're 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:13.080 calming me down and the other way around. And yeah, 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.200 I mean, I think that's one reason we've lasted so long. 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:19.080 Like if two people were so similar that they're constantly 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.960 worked up about the same stuff, Yeah, no, one, you know, 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:24.560 you're just gonna be working each other up, and no 0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:26.640 one's going to be there to say, hey, man, it 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:27.399 is what it is. 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:31.600 Yeah, man, hey, mellow out, here's the Bob Marley bumpers exactly. 0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:35.240 So should we talk a little bit about the areas 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:39.200 of study, Yeah, all right, Well there are three main 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:43.479 ones and stoicism and this is all you know to 0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:46.200 deal with introspection, which is kind of like all philosophies. 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.439 Physics is the first thing. And it's not physics like 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:53.919 you think of that you hate studying in high school. 0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:57.080 Well, it falls under a larger umbrella term, I guess. 0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.960 Yeah. They're talking about the natural world, the natural you know, 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.080 and also what lies beyond it. And when they say 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:11.040 the natural world, they're talking about everything God, the divine nature, 0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:13.359 everything that we know and things that we don't know. 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:18.840 Yeah, everything we would view as science or like you said, nature, Yeah, 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:21.800 all that stuff that's physics and all of it. That 0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:25.959 One of the things the Stoics, I think, if they 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.480 weren't the first to come up with it, they definitely 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:32.240 popularized it was the idea that all of this was interconnected. Yeah, 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.960 which is pretty I mean, you take it for granted today, 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:38.560 like everybody thinks that everything's interconnected these days. 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:39.560 Yeah, but. 0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:43.520 It's to be among the first to kind of point 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:47.520 that out or suggest that it's pretty pretty significant contribution 0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:48.840 to Western thought. 0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:52.000 Yeah, imagine that was a pretty deep thing when it 0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:53.760 first started hitting people, you know. 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:56.240 Can't you just see George Carlin being like, oh, you. 0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:59.880 Just blew my mind? Oh because he was so great? 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:01.640 Mm hmm. Man. 0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:05.200 Wait, no, he wasn't so crazy. He was he was 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:09.880 the guy their spirit a Yeah, what. 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.600 Was his name? Oh? Man got killed on this. 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:14.800 We'll just edit this part out. 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:16.200 I didn't know. I had to brush up on my 0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:17.120 bill and deed. 0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:20.040 I didn't either. I surprised myself. You should have seen 0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:20.480 my face. 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:24.200 You know. They kept they kept talking about remakes, like 0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:26.240 as recently as a couple of years ago, I think, 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:30.720 or not remakes, but uh sequels with the originals. Oh yeah, 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:33.200 Like Kenna Reeves was like, man, I love those movies. 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:34.520 I'd love to make another one. 0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:36.480 Did you see what what was? 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:37.000 So? 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:38.160 Was Keanu Reeves? 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:38.840 Bill? Or Ted? 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:41.920 Why are we even doing this to ourselves? 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:44.720 Boy? I want to say he was Ted? 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:47.040 So the guy who played the other guy? 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:48.680 Yeah, Alex Winter. 0:29:49.160 --> 0:29:50.280 Oh geez, Chuck. 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:50.640 Wow. 0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:58.800 Nice chob So Alex Winter was in what was the 0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:01.800 Charles Bronson view Cola is most famous death Wish Death 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:05.080 Wish three. Death Wish three was what he was in, 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.080 which was when Gol and Globis got their hands on 0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:12.280 it and turned it into like schlock, violent, like almost 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.760 post apocalyptic movie. Yeah, and he's great in it. But 0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:22.440 he's also in a documentary on Golan Globis. I can't 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:25.800 remember what the name of the name of the documentaries, 0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.080 but it's just about how bad the movies they made 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.880 were and how how gleefully these guys made them. But 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.080 he's interviewed in it. That guy hasn't aged a day. 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:37.960 No, he looks exactly Bill. 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:39.680 Okay, so he's Bill. 0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:41.920 Yeah all right. 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:44.960 So, uh so we got that settled. Physics is done. 0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:53.800 What's next? Logic, which they wanted to include social scientists, psychology, sociology, history, 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:55.880 which I kind of like, I'm down with that as 0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:58.480 far as the philosophies go. They want to include all 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:02.840 this stuff. But electively they kind of called this all reason. 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:07.040 It was a very big deal to stoicism, perhaps the 0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:08.360 biggest deal, right. 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.640 And they also were engaged in epistemology, which is theories 0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:16.000 of what knowledge is, how we gain knowledge, what's true, 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.880 what's belief, what's false? How do we differentiate between these things? 0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:22.520 And they spend a lot of time investigating this and 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:27.560 putting it all under logic, because it was through logic 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:32.640 that you could investigate physics, which included investigating God and 0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:35.640 the nature of universe and stuff like that. And then 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:42.560 through all that investigation, that introspection, that naval gazing, you 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:48.000 were ultimately figuring out how to best pursue and best 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.800 live out the third part, which was the ethics of 0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:51.400 the whole thing. 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:56.360 Yeah, and you mentioned the four great virtues earlier, courage, justice, wisdom, 0:31:56.360 --> 0:32:01.320 and temperance, And the whole idea here is uh, it's 0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.160 it's not like you want to block out the bad 0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:05.040 and only embrace the good. You like, you want to 0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:08.040 consider both the good and the bad, but just don't 0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.360 let any of it get in the way of anything 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.040 that you're trying to pursue in your life. 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.160 Right, pretty simple. 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:19.640 Yeah, and the whole good bad thing. Where did you 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:22.160 find this this thing on ethics? 0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:26.160 Was that the that was the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:30.160 from their from their entry on it. Yeah, it's pretty 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:32.640 pretty good. The whole thing was. Dude, you should have 0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:34.800 seen how in depth they go though, But I thought 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:36.080 this one was a good snippet. 0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:39.000 Well, I'm sure, yeah, they dive pretty deep, but I 0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:41.720 thought this was a pretty good little summation there. You know, 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:46.720 they're talking about, like you said, like money isn't just 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:51.800 not good or a ka bad. Things like this they 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:56.400 called indifference as in I N D I F F 0:32:56.480 --> 0:33:00.760 E R E N T S. Right, not indifference, And 0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:04.800 it's like not good or bad. It could be either one. 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.959 It's really kind of all about not letting something like 0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:11.160 that get in the way of your pursuit. 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:15.040 Right, So and again it went back to wealth, right, 0:33:15.120 --> 0:33:20.920 And this person in the Encyclopedia of Philosophy points out 0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:28.080 that like money, definitely being wealthy usually is helpful or 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:32.080 beneficial to the individual. Sure, but it can also not 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:36.040 be beneficial. Where say you have a big heroin problem, Well, 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:37.680 the more money you get, the more money you're going 0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:40.480 to spend on heroin. So in that case, being wealthy 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:43.720 is detrimental to you're not beneficial. And for something to 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:48.000 be a good it has to be good under all circumstances, 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:50.880 and to a stoic only there's only four things that 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.360 are good under all circumstances, which are those four cardinal virtues. 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.240 Everything else, like you said, is an indifferent and it 0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:01.800 can either be preferred or dispreferred, like wealth typically would 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:06.320 fall under being a preferred and different, whereas say, disease, 0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:14.120 having chronic disease would be a dispropered dispropered, wow, a 0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:16.680 dispreferred indifferent man. 0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:18.080 That's tough though it is. 0:34:18.840 --> 0:34:23.719 But the point is is whether it's fabulous wealth or diabetes, 0:34:24.480 --> 0:34:27.239 they should affect you about the same or you might 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:29.279 want one, you might not want to have one. But 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:31.480 if you have either one, you can live with it. 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:36.680 And that brings up a huge, huge component of stoicism 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:40.880 that's really been blown up and exploded in the twenty 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:47.080 first century, which is you should take adversity and turn 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:51.280 it into an opportunity for growth. That is a huge 0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:56.719 aspect of stoicism that's really being practiced and espoused these days. 0:34:56.920 --> 0:35:02.719 Yeah, I'm down with that. Like I don't think I 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.600 like being able to take from all these philosophies and 0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:10.200 different religions to form your sort of pathway through life, 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.960 you know, sure, Like when I hear sometimes I started 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.239 to read about Buddhism and the whole thing with Buddhism 0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:20.000 of like every day you start anew and you have 0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:23.680 a new chance. Like that really appeals to me too, Right. 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:29.319 What I don't like is when either religions or philosophies 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.840 say like like this is the only way and everything 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:37.600 else is BS. Sure you know, yeah, that just that's 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:39.319 a harsh buzzkill. 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:42.680 It really is. Not only is a BS, but I'm 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:44.279 going to kill you for thinking otherwise. 0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:45.160 Yeah. 0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:51.520 So Seneca who was one of the great thinkers of Stoicism. 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:53.839 He was an advisor to Nero, and we'll talk about 0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:58.439 him as criticism of Stoicism later on, but he had 0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:03.160 a very famous quote where he says, you are unfortunate 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:07.000 in my judgment, for you have never been unfortunate. You 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:09.719 have passed through life with no antagonist to face you. 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.480 No one will know what you are capable of, not 0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:16.960 even yourself, And that kind of shapes the basis of 0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:20.719 that idea that no matter what life throws at you, 0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:23.000 you take it and you say I'm going to become 0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:26.160 a better person from this, like oh this happened, Well, 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:28.960 that's great because that means that I can learn to 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:32.200 be better at this. So my dog just got hit 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:37.879 by a car. I'm going to practice fortitude and make 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:42.080 it through this really hard time and become a stronger 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:43.440 person on the other side. 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.360 Yeah, he may as well have said, you comma trust 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:47.480 fund kid, kamma. 0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:51.200 Sure right exactly, And I mean that that makes a 0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:55.440 people turn that on Seneca as well, but a lot 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:58.000 of modern Stoics come to his defense. Is like, no, like, 0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:59.640 I had a harder life than you would think. 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:02.960 Should we take another break? Yeah, all right, let's do it, 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:06.719 and we'll talk about Seneca and Cicero and all other 0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:07.920 kinds of weird names. 0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:36.040 So, Chuck, you were saying, you were talking about religion. 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:39.720 Stoicism apparently informed Christianity in a lot of ways. 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:44.719 Yeah, and Buddhism in some ways. Yeah, yet atheists embrace it. 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:47.319 It's kind of weird these days. But I mean, the 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:52.520 early Stoics were definitely they definitely believed in a divine intervention. 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:54.279 It was kind of the basis of the whole thing, 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:58.319 that this is God's will, So why try to control it? 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.719 Who are you to try to control it? Just roll 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:01.480 with the punches. 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:03.680 Yeah, that's a big When when I was taking all 0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:06.920 those philosophy quizzes, they're all a little bit different, but 0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:10.400 you saw through line through a lot of these questions, 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:13.920 and the free will one was in every single one 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:16.360 of them. Yeah, like, how do you feel about free will? 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:20.239 And different ways of asking it, but you know. 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:23.000 You will what do you think exactly? 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.840 If you want to find out which philosophy that you 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:28.960 jibe with, you have to answer the free will question. 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:30.120 Free will question. 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:36.920 Yeah, hey, that's easier to say than just preferred indifferent. 0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:38.399 Nice work. 0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:43.680 So one of the big points, especially today for practicing 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:48.640 stoicism is looking at adversity as a growth opportunity for growth. 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:50.520 Right right, That's just a good tool in life. 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:53.480 I think another one and this one, I really this 0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:56.000 is where I big time diverge from stoicism as like 0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.879 a part of a daily practice is something called negative visualization. 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:05.640 Yeah, like, uh, try and try and imagine the worst 0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:10.319 case scenario constantly. Yeah, I'm not into that at all. 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:13.040 No. So, say you say you're at like your child's 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:16.600 birthday party, right, and you are not you specifically, this 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:20.799 is you just a general person and you're having just 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:27.600 the most intense moment of joy and appreciation for your 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:32.080 child According to stoics, you should follow that up with 0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:35.120 a thought about how at your child's next doctor's appointment, 0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:38.000 your child could be diagnosed with terminal leukemia. 0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:38.359 Yeah. 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:42.040 That that is what you should be doing basically all 0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.640 the time, negative visualization. And the idea is it's twofold one. 0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:50.600 You're preventing yourself from becoming overjoyed at that moment. Don't 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:55.960 don't do that. Yeah, and then secondly, you're you're exploring 0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.000 how you will feel if your kid does get diagnosed 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:04.000 to something horrible or something bad happens, and that when 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:08.520 it actually happens, you'll say that's not so bad, I'm 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:11.040 already used to it, or you'll be able to confront 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:13.919 it through your imagination and say, this is what I'm 0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:17.200 afraid of. That's not that bad. But I mean, it's 0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:19.640 a really extreme, horrific example. 0:40:20.160 --> 0:40:21.279 But it is. 0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:25.840 Ultimately it's definitely in step with stoicism that you should 0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:28.760 be visualizing the worst case scenario all the time. 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:31.759 Yeah, I mean, And that's one of the reasons stoicism 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:39.400 has such a downer reputation, such that Cicero wrote a 0:40:39.440 --> 0:40:43.040 stoic rouse enthusiasm. He is much more likely to extinguish 0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:47.919 any enthusiasm, the student may have to begin with burn. Yeah, 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:51.880 it was a pretty good burn. And you know, I 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:55.759 get that. Like, who would if that was one of 0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:57.960 the first things you learned if you started to poke 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:02.520 around with stoicism, ninety nine percent of people would probably 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:04.520 be like, Man, I don't want to. I don't like 0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:05.120 the sounds of that. 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.920 Yeah. I like the not having to control everything aspect, 0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:12.480 but the thinking about nothing but negative thoughts all the time. Yeah, 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:14.759 you know, And I get the point of it. I 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:16.920 just it doesn't It doesn't appeal to me. 0:41:17.280 --> 0:41:20.600 No, I mean, you shouldn't be Pollyanna either. Well. 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:24.239 No, it's it's in direct contradiction to the idea of 0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:28.040 the power of positive thinking, right, which is stoics like, you, fool, 0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:30.520 what are you doing? All you're doing is setting yourself 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:34.000 up for nothing but letdowns when that doesn't actually come true. 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:37.320 Well, but I also agree with that to a certain degree, 0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:40.640 you know, like the whole like just you can conjure 0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:43.600 it up just by thinking positively. I think that's on 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:47.200 the opposite side equally, uh bs. 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:50.000 Sure, sure, I think so too. 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:52.399 I'm kind of right down the middle. I guess when 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:53.000 it comes to that. 0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:55.319 Stuff, and I think most people are. But I think 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:57.960 that's what's fascinating about this kind of thing is it's like, well, 0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:02.400 well there's some people actually are these these degrees, these extremes. 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:04.000 It's interesting to me. 0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:06.360 Well yeah, And the other interesting thing is we you know, 0:42:06.360 --> 0:42:09.879 you're talking about Christianity, and then it's weird how Stoicism 0:42:10.360 --> 0:42:13.120 on one hand, like atheists like I can totally see 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:16.720 how they'd be down with Stoicism, but also the whole 0:42:16.960 --> 0:42:21.759 notion that some believers in God and some Christians like 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:24.640 give it all up to God because only God can 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:28.879 control anything. So all we're going to do is pray 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.640 about it, and that's popular among Stoics as well. Right, 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:35.360 So it's just interesting that it has such a wide 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:40.640 range as far as from atheism to like the you know, serious, serious, 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:42.839 give it up to God Christianity. 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:46.239 Right, yeah, no, it definitely, yeah, it almost It's kind 0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.480 of like it's that buffet thing again where people can 0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.439 come along and take what they want from it and 0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:54.480 it becomes part of their own philosophy or their own 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:59.759 religion or whatever. Let's talk about some of the ways 0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:05.040 that that it's been used over the year's stoicism, right, Okay, 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:08.400 so there's been a lot of people who have followed 0:43:09.280 --> 0:43:14.040 Stoic thought, like Adam Smith apparently was very much informed 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:17.240 by Stoicism when he wrote The Wealth of Nations because 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:20.840 one of the big, big aspects of it was individual liberty. 0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:26.000 One cool thing about the early Stoics was that everybody's equal. Yeah, 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:31.720 it doesn't matter whether you're a man, woman, gay, straight, black, white, whatever, 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:34.239 everyone is equal. And this was at a time when 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:39.200 slavery was rampant, right, Yeah, so that was a big, 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:42.600 a big that's a big aspect too. That's a big 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.399 aspect of the Wealth of Nations is anybody can come 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:49.960 along and become a capitalist. You just have to compete, right. 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:53.480 Another place that it popped up kind of famously was 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:55.120 in cognitive behavioral therapy. 0:43:55.840 --> 0:43:58.840 Yeah, which initially when I saw that, I was like, huh, 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.360 that kind of surprised me, But then it all made sense, 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:07.560 Like exposure to something bad can help you get over 0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:10.120 it is kind of like that conjuring up the worst 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:13.919 possible It's almost numbing yourself to the worst possible thing. 0:44:13.960 --> 0:44:18.120 If you think about that worst case scenario thing all 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:20.960 the time. It's almost a way of preparing for that. 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:26.440 Yeah, and it's rooted specifically. One of the founders of CBT, 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:31.879 Albert Ellis, was an adherent of Stoicism as a younger man, 0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:36.959 and what's known as the cognitive model of emotion, which 0:44:37.000 --> 0:44:40.880 is the basis of cognitive behavioral therapy, is based on 0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:47.239 Epictetis's maxim that people are disturbed not by things, but 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:50.520 by their view of things. And that's part of that 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:55.800 whole Stoic philosophy, which is nothing is good or bad. 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:59.560 There's only good in the four virtues. Everything else is 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:00.520 how you view it. 0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:01.239 Yea. 0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:03.960 Whether it's losing your job or winning the lottery, those 0:45:04.239 --> 0:45:07.480 things aren't inherently good or bad. It's you, the person 0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:12.279 experiencing that, who bestows good or bad on them. Yeah, 0:45:12.600 --> 0:45:14.040 and why label things? 0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:17.560 Sure, I'm down with that, Yeah a little bit. 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.920 Did you hear about Admiral Stockdale. 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:23.759 Yeah, I remember that name for sure. When he came 0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:32.000 out with his book Courage under Fire, colon Testing Eptectus's 0:45:32.800 --> 0:45:35.680 Doctrines and the Laboratory of Human Behavior in nineteen ninety three. 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:40.319 He was a famous prisoner of war in Vietnam for 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:43.120 seven years, endured some of the worst of the worst 0:45:43.320 --> 0:45:46.400 you can imagine in war. And what got him through 0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:53.000 was certainly not Christianity, because he thought that's nothing but 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:53.840 false hope. 0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:56.680 Well, not only that, he shared the pow camp with 0:45:56.760 --> 0:45:59.920 people who who clung to that and did not make it. 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:03.239 Yeah, so he saw it right up front, right, So 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:05.680 what got him through was his stoic beliefs. 0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:10.000 Yeah, he was a huge, big time adherent of Epictetus. 0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:14.000 He'd studied him in college. Apparently he'd read everything that 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:18.080 Epictetus had written or said that had been written down 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:23.680 and attributed to Epictetus twice from two different translators. So 0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:26.960 this guy knew his Epictetus. And he said, well, I'm 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:29.880 a prisoner of war in Vietnam. I've got some broken bones, 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:33.120 I'm starving, I'm being mistreated. I'll be here for seven years. 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:37.120 What a perfect opportunity to put Epictetus's teachings to the 0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:41.800 test in a real life laboratory experiment. And he said 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:47.080 Epictetus passed. The flying Colors. Was Stockdale's final report on it. 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:50.120 Yeah, he said, if Epictetus's lecture room was a hospital, 0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:53.280 my prison was a laboratory, a laboratory of human behavior. 0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:56.319 I chose to test his postulates against the demanding real 0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:00.160 life challenges of my laboratory. So, man, talk of out 0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:03.080 a strong will like to be faced with that and 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:05.640 be like, well, hey, this is a great chance to 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:08.280 work on my philosophy of life. 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:10.520 Exactly what else am I going to do? But that 0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:14.000 follows in and of itself on the whole too, of 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:17.680 turning adversity into a room for growth as well. 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:21.080 Yeah, man, yeah, stronger than me. Let's just say that. 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:26.680 So you want to talk about some criticisms of Stoicism. 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:28.400 Well, Cicero certainly thought it was a big. 0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:34.400 Downer, yeah, he said, Well you already said what he said, right, Yeah, 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.120 it basically extinguishes enthusiasm and students. Not a good thing. Right, 0:47:38.719 --> 0:47:41.120 And over the years, the fact that some of the 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:44.080 great Stoic thinkers of all time have been super wealthy 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:49.560 and powerful. Seneca Marcus Aurelius was the Emperor of Rome. 0:47:49.640 --> 0:47:52.160 He basically ran the free world. Well, I don't know 0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:55.640 if the free worlds right, the Western world for almost 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.360 twenty years. Yeah, And when you sit there and yeah again, 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:04.240 if you say yes, you can turn anything into any 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:07.279 adversity into an opportunity. If you're super wealthy and you 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:09.960 don't have to worry about where your food's gonna come from. Like, yes, 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:12.919 of course you can be a Stoic. And then Epictetis 0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:16.600 came along and, like we said, kind of erased all 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:19.680 that to an extent for sure, but it is still 0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:25.200 kind of criticized as like a wealthy person's philosophy, and 0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:27.919 it kind of smacks of that a little bit today too, Chuck, 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:32.239 with its huge resurgence in Silicon Valley. 0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:33.800 Oh is that happening? 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:39.040 Oh? Yeah, most of the Stoic revival is taking place there. 0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:40.919 That's where it's cradle is right now. 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:44.080 Well, our own article has a couple of good points 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:47.960 to talk about it not being as appealing because it 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:53.280 lacks the mystique of Eastern practice. And then they also 0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:55.680 said this, it's also regarded as a philosophy of merely 0:48:55.760 --> 0:48:59.080 breaking even while remaining determinedly impassive. 0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:02.879 Yes, I don't know if that's entirely fair, but it's 0:49:02.920 --> 0:49:06.239 as it kind of catches it a little bit. 0:49:06.760 --> 0:49:09.920 Well, yeah, because the very next sentences, this attitude ignores 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:13.319 the promise proffered by stoicism of lasting transcendence. And that 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:17.759 one article that you said talked about the power of indifference, right, 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:21.719 which I thought was interesting. It's not about just like 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:25.480 not caring about anything. It's about caring about only the 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:28.680 right things that you have the power to change. Yeah. 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:33.279 And also though I also see that even keel aspect 0:49:33.400 --> 0:49:36.319 being indifferent, the power of it. I mean, think about 0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:40.520 how much time whenever you are like super happy about 0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:44.680 something going right or super upset about something going wrong, 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:49.680 you're ultimately you're being distracted from keeping on keeping on. 0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:52.879 Oh yeah, and then you go back to eventually get 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.720 back to that middle again, which is the baseline anyway. 0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:59.200 And so I guess what stoics are doing is staying 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:04.239 on that baseline and not being distracted so they can 0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:07.640 get further along faster or at a more steady pace. 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:12.600 Yeah. I mean, there's definitely something that's really frustrating in life, 0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:15.120 which is when you look back and say, man, I've 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:20.360 spent two days stressed and worried about something that I 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:23.120 have no control over, right, And what a waste of 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:25.000 time that was when I could have done X, Y, 0:50:25.040 --> 0:50:25.319 and Z. 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:28.600 One of the big questions I have, it's not necessarily 0:50:28.640 --> 0:50:30.840 a criticism, I guess it depends on what the answer 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:34.839 would be. But my big question for stoicism, since it's 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:40.000 so it places so much emphasis on the individual and 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:46.080 self exploration and introspection. How would a stoic suggest enacting 0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:51.960 massive social change? Where something some ill is happening to 0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:55.600 some large group of people, but nothing's going to change 0:50:56.000 --> 0:50:59.399 unless you go out of your own personal sphere and 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:05.080 work to make others change. Right, how do you do that? 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.759 Or do you just say, well, whatever, it's God's will 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:10.359 that these people suffer and be put down by the 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:15.359 majority forever, or is there some way that that can 0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:20.400 be addressed through the stoic you know, philosophy. I'm very curious. 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:22.719 So anybody who knows that right end, please. 0:51:23.480 --> 0:51:27.200 Yeah, maybe that's why it appeals to Silicon Valley. Right. 0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:29.719 Well, that's the other thing too, right. So it also 0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:32.120 very much smacks when when you hear of it from 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:37.600 like wealthy people espousing it to anybody, it smacks of 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:43.440 that whole aspect of Christianity where hey, medieval peasant, you 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:45.360 know how your life is terrible and you're going to 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:47.479 live to thirty five and all you do is work 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.160 all the time, and you give most of the spoils 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:53.279 of your effort to your king. Well, there's such a 0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:56.680 thing as Christianity, and your treasure is in the afterlife, 0:51:56.760 --> 0:52:00.239 so don't worry about this life. Yeah, it smacks the 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:03.520 same thing where you can keep a population placated and 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.799 not searching for larger social change by saying, hey, just 0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:11.160 focus on these four things and everything else is just 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:13.319 It just happens, and you don't need to get worked 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:15.759 up about it at all. It seems like a bit 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:19.359 of a pacifier too. Yeah, depending on how you look 0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:24.720 at it, it's fascinating. Are we done with stoicism? 0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:25.560 I finished with it? 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:26.160 Okay? 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:29.160 I think that was a good overview. 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:30.080 I think so too. 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:31.320 It's a good thought starter. 0:52:31.920 --> 0:52:36.000 If you want to know more about stoicism, Bud, there's 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:38.920 a lot more out there than this. Just dive in 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:40.879 and see what it means to you. And again, it's 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.479 a buffet. Take what you like, leave what you don't want, 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:51.080 leave the kerdle pudding behind, Take the perfectly garlic green beans. Yeah, 0:52:51.719 --> 0:52:55.160 if you what else? Did I already say that one part? 0:52:55.200 --> 0:52:55.359 Oh? 0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.520 Since I said green beans, it's time for listener mail. 0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:05.200 I'm gonna call this Beagle Brigade slash police dogs. 0:53:05.520 --> 0:53:06.239 People love that. 0:53:06.320 --> 0:53:11.520 One man who doesn't love beatles, Beagles on brigade, on parade. 0:53:11.760 --> 0:53:15.480 No one, even people who get busted with whole pigs 0:53:15.520 --> 0:53:17.400 still are like that. Beagles adorable. 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:21.160 So this dude, Eric Stover is a sandwicher, meaning he 0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:24.920 follows our advice, which is to listen to the newest 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:28.640 episode as well as whatever from our back catalog. He 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:32.359 chooses to Yeah, he's doing it right. Hey, guys are 0:53:32.360 --> 0:53:34.600 working the sports and entertainment business in New York and 0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:36.680 after nine to eleven, the use of bomb sniffing dogs, 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:41.480 mostly German shepherds, became standard operating procedure for all events. 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:43.680 If you ares, prior to a concert one night, the 0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:46.920 canine units were sweeping all the backstage areas and one 0:53:46.920 --> 0:53:49.880 of the bomb dogs hit on an employee locker, so 0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:52.080 you can imagine it caused an immediate and serious response. 0:53:52.120 --> 0:53:54.600 A bomb squad was dispatched and that portion of the 0:53:54.640 --> 0:53:57.879 arena was evacuated. Plans were even made to cancel the show. 0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:00.839 He doesn't say what show, which I was very curious about. 0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:04.160 I'm going to say three doors down. 0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:09.560 Okay. After some very tense moments, the police officers opened 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.919 the locker. Those guys are super brave, thankfully they didn't 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:15.640 find a bomb, but did find drugs. An employee must 0:54:15.680 --> 0:54:18.360 have thought, must have brought in an extra bump for 0:54:18.440 --> 0:54:18.840 the show. 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:21.839 Oh man, it was definitely three doors Down. 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:26.520 You might be asking yourself. No, this wasn't the band's 0:54:26.960 --> 0:54:28.600 green room. This was an employee. 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.080 Oh, I know, I know. Three Doors Down. Three Doors 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:34.640 Downs fans are among the most drug addled of all 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:36.439 music plans? Are they sure? 0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:37.600 I thought that was the Juggalos? 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:42.319 No, they put the Juggalos a shame. Jugglers take time 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:43.680 off once in a while, you know what I mean? 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:48.120 Yeah, that's true. Uh, you might be asking yourself, how 0:54:48.200 --> 0:54:51.439 does a bomb dog find drugs? As it turns out, 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.840 the dog had failed out of drug school and was 0:54:54.920 --> 0:55:01.960 retrained as a bomb talk poor guy. That's hilarious, isn't it? 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:02.560 Poor guy? 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:05.320 Which one the dog or the guy who just happened 0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:09.040 to run across the failed drug dog? I guess I 0:55:09.320 --> 0:55:10.440 still remembered something. 0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:13.160 There are no winners here. I guess he didn't completely 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:14.719 forget his drug training, though, and he set off a 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:16.920 chain of events that scared the crap out of us. 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:20.120 The story ends with the employee getting arrested. The show 0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:22.360 went on and the fans none the wiser. My guess 0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:26.080 is the dog was reassigned to crowd control. 0:55:26.680 --> 0:55:29.040 Just barking up people. Keep back in line. 0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:30.960 Thanks for everything you guys do. Please let me know 0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:34.600 if you ever need anything in New York City. Is 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:35.160 that a hint? 0:55:35.920 --> 0:55:40.280 We don't do drugs, Eric, Yeah, we're terrified of dogs. 0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:43.800 That is Eric Stover in New York and I guess 0:55:43.800 --> 0:55:46.400 he's still in the sports and entertainment business. 0:55:46.800 --> 0:55:49.799 Yeah, he's like, you need some sports, Come see me. 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:51.680 I could use some sports. 0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:56.000 Thanks Eric. That's a pretty great story, right, that's right. 0:55:57.880 --> 0:55:59.359 If you want to get in touch with this like 0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:01.640 Eric did, you can send us an email to Stuff 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:07.240 Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:56:07.320 --> 0:56:10.200 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:14.480 more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:16.440 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.