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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I'm feeling very stoic today, so we're going

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Speaker 1: to use what exactly is Stoicism as our weekly select selection.

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Speaker 1: This one was released in July July fourth in Fact

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. What a great for the July topic. Learn

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Speaker 1: all about stoicism right here, right now. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with

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Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryant guest producer. Noel's Jerry's been out

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Speaker 2: a lot lately, Chuck, have you noticed?

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Speaker 1: No, No, I haven't heard it. Of course, Jerry's got

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Speaker 1: big life things going on. She does buying and selling houses.

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Speaker 1: She's like a real estate mogul.

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Speaker 2: Visiting the mall of stuff.

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Speaker 1: We're just a couple of deep thinkers hanging out on

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Speaker 1: the stoa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically, what is it this soa? Did you practice

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Speaker 2: the word the pronunciation at all?

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Speaker 1: I tried to pronounce a lot of this, but you

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Speaker 1: know ancient Greek, you know the phrase. It's all Greek

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Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, it comes from not being able to

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Speaker 1: pronounce these things.

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Speaker 2: It's quite literal, the the stoa poikily. I think that's

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Speaker 2: probably pretty close, man.

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Speaker 1: So can I start this with a couple of quick thoughts?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: First of all, I took a I took four different

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Speaker 1: philosophy quizzes before we recorded, like.

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Speaker 2: What kind of philosophy do you subscribe to? Type quiz?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know the ones that are super accurate, right,

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Speaker 1: because they can figure that out in eight to fifan questions.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and then you can move on and find out

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Speaker 2: what muppet you are.

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Speaker 1: So here's here's my result here. For the first one,

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Speaker 1: I was epicurean okay, the second one existentialism all right,

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Speaker 1: third one atheist existentialist huh. And the fourth Nietzsche slash stoic.

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Speaker 2: Nietzsche was a huge critic of stoicism. I'm surprised they

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Speaker 2: put those two together.

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Speaker 1: Well that that is chuck though.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Yeah, you're you're a contradiction

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Speaker 2: in terms, you're yin and yang.

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Speaker 1: Well I am, and that The reason why I took

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Speaker 1: these is because when I was doing the research on stoicism,

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Speaker 1: I found me. I found myself a lot of times

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Speaker 1: going yep, yep totally, and then a lot of times

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Speaker 1: going no, that's really not me.

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Speaker 2: Same here, same here, and I think even the Stoics

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Speaker 2: from back in the day realized that there were very few,

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Speaker 2: very very few actual what they called sages walking around

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Speaker 2: Stoics ages who really fulfilled every aspect of this to

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Speaker 2: a t. And I think that I think one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons why Stoicism today is making a comeback and

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Speaker 2: it's so appealing is because, well there's two reasons. One

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Speaker 2: more than kind of a navel gazing type philosophy where

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Speaker 2: you're trying to figure out the nature of existence or

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Speaker 2: something like that, it's more a blueprint for existing day

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Speaker 2: to day in a in a useful, happy way. And

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Speaker 2: then secondly, it's a you can kind of pick and choose.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like a buffet. You can pick and choose

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Speaker 2: what aspects of it you want to adopt or use,

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Speaker 2: and know, you know, Greek ghost is going to come

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Speaker 2: along and spear you in the face.

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Speaker 1: With a trident, right punch. Yeah, And I think that's

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, the Age of Reason fascinates

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Speaker 1: me to no end, and second, I've kind of wanted

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Speaker 1: to cover some of the great philosophies of all time.

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Speaker 2: This sounds like a good start, well it is, but.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of daunting, because people spend like that's

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Speaker 1: their life's work, you know, and for us to try

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Speaker 1: and summarize any of them in thirty to forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes is kind of like, you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what philosophy. You would liken that to foolishism, duncism. That's

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Speaker 1: what we do. You know, Well, how about this.

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Speaker 2: If this one goes well, maybe we'll take it as

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Speaker 2: a sign that we can tackle some other ones. But

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely right, like even the even just like say

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Speaker 2: the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, which is meant you know,

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Speaker 2: it's sharp, and it's detailed, and it's exhaustive, but it's

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Speaker 2: also clearly meant for lay people interested in philosophy.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's just this just stoicism is so involved that it's

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Speaker 2: not possible for us to like really capture all of it,

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Speaker 2: even get in an overview, you know, or giving it

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Speaker 2: just hitting the highlights. We can't possibly hit all the highlights.

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Speaker 2: There's just too much to it. And that's just stoicism.

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Speaker 2: I still say it's worth talking about though, just because

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Speaker 2: it's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: So if I get up in the middle, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: pull me back. I'll just keep going well. I like

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Speaker 1: the Urban Dictionary definition stoic is someone who does not

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Speaker 1: give a peep about the stupid things in this world

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Speaker 1: that most people care so much about. Stoics do have emotions,

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Speaker 1: but only for the things in this world that really matter.

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Speaker 1: They are the most real people alive. And then in

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Speaker 1: their little example, as a group of kids sitting by

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Speaker 1: the porch, stoic walks by, one can says something very mean, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you're a blankety blank and you blank blank, and the

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Speaker 1: stoic says good for you and keeps going right. It's

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Speaker 1: a part of me really like I hear that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I am so that person on so

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Speaker 1: many levels. But then sometimes I'm totally not, and I

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Speaker 1: think what the difference is or what matters is well,

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Speaker 1: it depends on if they say something that matters to you,

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Speaker 1: or if something does matter to you. Like I might

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Speaker 1: get really riled up about some.

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Speaker 2: Stuff well that would make you not stoic, that.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't rile anyone else up, But I also some things

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Speaker 1: that really make other people I rate. I'm just like man,

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Speaker 1: can't change it. It is what it is, and I

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Speaker 1: only can get upset about the things that can change.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you could apply that to everything, you'd be

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Speaker 2: pretty high up there in the Stoic pantheon.

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Speaker 1: That'd be a Stoic matt five star general.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much five finger punch guy.

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Speaker 1: All Right, so we beat around the bush. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was a pretty good definition actually, even though it's

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Speaker 1: from the Urban Dictionary.

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Speaker 2: But we should say we picked that one up from

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Speaker 2: an Aon article why Stoicism is one of the best

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Speaker 2: mind hacks ever devised.

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Speaker 1: That was a good one by Larry Wallace.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you did a good job kind of giving an

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Speaker 2: overview of the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I think Larry Wallace is one of the great modern Stoicists.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's plenty of them running around these days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're I mean, we'll go back in time

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Speaker 1: and study the beginnings of stoicism because we're talking about

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Speaker 1: like you hear the word stoic today, right, and it

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Speaker 1: means it was taken from this, but it's kind of

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Speaker 1: someone like sort of a grim face. Stoic doesn't say

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Speaker 1: much and that's not what stoicism and they say in

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Speaker 1: our article several times with a capital less really is

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Speaker 1: all about, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to these days people typically or I should say

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Speaker 2: these days. Up to about three years ago, people thought

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Speaker 2: of stoics as somebody who could watch their dog get

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Speaker 2: hit by a car and you know their reaction was

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Speaker 2: to raise their chin a little higher up in the air,

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Speaker 2: you know, like just grin and Barrett, as Larry put it, Larry,

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Speaker 2: where I'm on a first name basis with Larry Wallace

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Speaker 2: layer that it's a philosophy of grin, endurance, tolerating rather

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Speaker 2: than transcending life's agonies and adversities, just kind of trudging through,

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Speaker 2: just taking hit after hit from life as it deals

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Speaker 2: them to you. Right, that was the idea of stoicism.

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Speaker 2: You can kind of like it's not like that's just

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Speaker 2: radically unlike actual stoicism, but it's an outsider's interpretation of

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Speaker 2: what the stoics are actually doing, what's actually going on,

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Speaker 2: the purpose of the whole thing, That outsider's view that

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Speaker 2: doesn't really fully understand. It became the popular view until recently,

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Speaker 2: until it started to kind of gain some traction lately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, throughout the year, stoicism has informed

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Speaker 1: some religions these days. There are a lot of atheists,

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Speaker 1: there are stoics, But I like how our article says it.

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Speaker 1: Above all, it teaches the value of emotional control in

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Speaker 1: living one's life fully.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So here's the base of it. The basis of

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Speaker 2: it is if you can detach yourself from emotional responses

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Speaker 2: to things, then something that comes along, whether good or bad,

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Speaker 2: is not going to get your goat. Stoicism is all

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Speaker 2: about protecting your goat and not letting anything get it.

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Speaker 2: And the way that they do that is by saying,

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Speaker 2: there are very few things that I can control in life,

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Speaker 2: and everything that I can't control, I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: get up riled up over, you know, lose my job. Well,

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Speaker 2: it happens. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a person.

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Speaker 2: I just need to go out and get another job.

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Speaker 2: Dog gets hit by a car, Well that's really awful

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Speaker 2: because I really like that dog. But I'll just go

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Speaker 2: get another dog. Or maybe I'll just learn to live

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Speaker 2: without the dog. Maybe I was becoming too attached to

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Speaker 2: the dog. Things like that. That's stoicism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The whole point of it is it's not just to

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Speaker 2: get your goat or to protect your goat from being gotten.

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Speaker 2: It's about out living a moral life where you're a

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Speaker 2: very good human being and The idea is that the

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Speaker 2: only way to really do that is through things like

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Speaker 2: rationalism and investigating the universe and being understanding of knowledge

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Speaker 2: and then pursuing ethics, specific ethics, and they figured out

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Speaker 2: the best way to do that is dispassionately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think my bumper sticker would say onboard Colon,

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Speaker 1: part time stoicist, full time dreamer.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that is a specific yeah, right, bumper sticker.

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Speaker 1: I used to have a lot of bumper stickers in

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Speaker 1: high school, and now I hit loathe them so much.

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Speaker 2: Really, what did you have?

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Speaker 1: Like? Oh, I had an old Volkswagen Beetle and that

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Speaker 1: was my family actually bought brand new in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: eight and was passed down from kid to kid to kid,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was very cool. I thought at

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Speaker 1: the time, well, it is cool, love those old Beatles.

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Speaker 1: But I just went through one of those phases where

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, here's a Native American saying

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Speaker 1: and here's something about mother nature and this Bob Marley

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Speaker 1: had this to say, and oh, just yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: one of those. And now I see those cars with

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Speaker 1: all the things and I'm just like, shut up, nobody cares.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I mean did you have a three

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Speaker 2: eleven sticker?

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Speaker 1: No, this was pre three eleven.

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Speaker 2: Actually, okay, gotcha. So did your mom come out and

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Speaker 2: be like, what'd you do to the family heirloom? No

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Speaker 2: stickers over?

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Speaker 1: No, it's funny that that car had a the rear

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Speaker 1: floorboard was missing on one side.

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Speaker 2: My dad had a car like that, a Malibu, so.

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Speaker 1: You could like see the street.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh there, Now that I look back, he didn't

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Speaker 2: even have a piece of wood. Now that I look back,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, that was extraordinarily irresponsible to be driving around

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Speaker 2: with kids in the back seat. Yeah, with the street visible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Your dall was just like watch your.

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Speaker 2: Feet kids, Yeah, easy, does it?

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Speaker 1: Uh? All right? So look, you want to go back

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Speaker 1: and talk about the history a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit, No, I want to keep beating around the butt.

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Speaker 1: All right. Let's get in the way back machine and okay,

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Speaker 1: we need to really juice it up because we're going

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Speaker 1: way back.

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Speaker 2: Got some kerosene, got some banana peels, huh, and got

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Speaker 2: some airplane glue. But that's just for us.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because it's a long ride. Yeah, Ancient Greece

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Speaker 1: is where we're headed to the time of the Great philosophers.

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Speaker 1: And like we said earlier, sitting here on the stoa,

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Speaker 1: that was a joke, but it wasn't. And you you,

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Speaker 1: you know, you said, Stoa, You're gonna try it again.

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Speaker 1: The stoa poikilely yes, or painted porch is what it means.

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Speaker 1: And that was a public space in Athens grease.

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Speaker 2: It was like a portico, yeah, where people.

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Speaker 1: Would hang out and talk and chew the fat. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I love about this time. People just they

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Speaker 1: were just alive with ideas, these philosophical ideas of trying

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Speaker 1: to figure it all out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but don't you think like every once a while

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Speaker 2: you just be like, oh, everybody, shut up, I live.

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Speaker 1: I gotta do something useful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, plan talking. Yeah, you know, but I agree with you. Overall,

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Speaker 2: it was a pretty thrilling time.

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Speaker 1: Did you take philosophy in college at all? No?

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Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I really did not. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I took a single philosophy class now that I think

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Speaker 2: about it, not even a survey.

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Speaker 1: I took the one kind of general class. I guess

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Speaker 1: it was the one I won. And I actually made

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Speaker 1: an A which I didn't make a ton of a's

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Speaker 1: in college. And I remember at the time kind of

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Speaker 1: the same thing. About half the class I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: so fascinating, and then the other half I was just like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: what a waste of time. I do something useful, go

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Speaker 1: like volunteer for a charity.

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Speaker 2: Go make something out of wood, anything.

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Speaker 1: All right, So back to the Stoa. We're on this

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Speaker 1: painted porch, this portico, as it were. People are everywhere

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Speaker 1: running their mouths about what they think is important. And

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Speaker 1: then this dude wanders up. Zeno of Citium, Yeah, who

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Speaker 1: had recently been shipwrecked. And there were other zenos. Not

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Speaker 1: to be confused.

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Speaker 2: I know that is confusing. There should be one Zeno.

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Speaker 2: There can be in all of history.

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Speaker 1: There were zenos of other things. But this is Zeno

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Speaker 1: of Cidium. And you're right, he was shipwrecked and he

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Speaker 1: was wandering around after a trip from Cyprus.

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Speaker 2: Did you say we're in Athens.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, not Georgia. No, although we did our fair

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Speaker 1: shriff sitting around on porches talking nonsense there as well.

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Speaker 2: But that's a porch porch, yeah, had a Greek porch.

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Speaker 1: And so Xeno took a little bit of insight from

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Speaker 1: the Synics and then eventually said, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: could my kind of forming my own thoughts here, and

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Speaker 1: I think everyone else is doing it. I have my

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Speaker 1: own philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's called Stoicism, Yeah, named after later later

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Speaker 2: I don't think he called it that. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: he probably called it Zenoism. They're like, yeah, that sucks,

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Speaker 2: We're gonna call it stoicism after the porch. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: this is I mean, like the Stoicism very quickly became

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Speaker 2: one of the big philosophies at the time, and it

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Speaker 2: rivaled some of the philosophies that it grew out of,

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Speaker 2: like Socratic philosophy and like you said, cynicism, the cynics. Sure,

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Speaker 2: And actually, if you look at Stoicism, it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a compromise between Socrates or so Crates, as Bill and

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Speaker 2: Ted call them, philosophy, which was that to lead a

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Speaker 2: good life. And this was the point of all of

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Speaker 2: the philosophies at this time, during this Age of Reason,

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Speaker 2: was achieving what was called you diemonia, and you diemonia

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Speaker 2: is a life worth living. It's thriving, it's flourishing, it's

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Speaker 2: being happy, like real happiness. Right. That was the pursuit

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Speaker 2: of all of these different ideas that were floating around

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Speaker 2: at the time was how to achieve that. Socrates had

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Speaker 2: the idea that you achieved that through like twelve cardinal virtues,

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Speaker 2: and some of them were things you could cultivate in yourself,

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Speaker 2: like courage, a sense of justice, that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But then there are other ones too that had like

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Speaker 2: everything to do with luck, Like being good looking was

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Speaker 2: one of them. Right, Yeah, if you weren't good look,

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Speaker 2: if you were ugly, sorry, buddy, you could never achieve

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Speaker 2: you diemonia. Right on the other end of the spectrum

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Speaker 2: where the cynics and the cynics believed that earthly trappings

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Speaker 2: like wealth and fame and glory anything like that was

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Speaker 2: the path to ruin and that the true path to

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Speaker 2: you diemonia was living simply and living in poverty. And

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Speaker 2: so Zeno comes along and here's all these and as

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Speaker 2: he's formulating his own ideas, he's like, Socrates make some

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Speaker 2: sense over here, and so do the cynics a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to put them together. And that's where

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Speaker 2: Stoicism came from. It was a compromise between the two

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Speaker 2: where you live a life of pursuing you diemonia through

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Speaker 2: these virtues for virtues. I think there's justice, courage, wisdom,

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Speaker 2: and then temperance, right, So you're practicing those four virtues.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of a nod to Socrates. And you

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Speaker 2: don't have to live in poverty. You can be wealthy,

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Speaker 2: because if stoicism is anything, it's wealthy people who got

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Speaker 2: into philosophy that weren't quite sure how to feel about

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Speaker 2: being wealthy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to say to kind of come to the point that,

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Speaker 1: like happing money is not a bad thing, right, right.

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Speaker 2: And so was what they came up with was, sure,

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Speaker 2: you can be wealthy, and that's okay. You can prefer

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Speaker 2: to be wealthy, but you just can't be attached to it.

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Speaker 2: You can't desire to be wealthy because you can't control

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Speaker 2: being wealthy. And if you pursue being wealthy, you're pursuing

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Speaker 2: something beyond your control. So if you just happen to

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Speaker 2: be wealthy, that's great. You can be happy with it,

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Speaker 2: but also be prepared to lose it at any given time,

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Speaker 2: and that's a big part of stoicism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's so funny though to think about,

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Speaker 1: like thousands of years ago in ancient Greece, like they

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Speaker 1: spent so much time thinking about living this all these

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Speaker 1: schools have thought of living this life so like putting

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Speaker 1: so much thought into living life to its fullest and

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Speaker 1: all the different ways that they defined it and eventually,

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Speaker 1: like over the years, like as recently as like the

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Speaker 1: generation of our parents and grandparents the United States, like

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Speaker 1: the philosophy of life was like you just go to

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Speaker 1: work and you work hard until you die, and that's

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Speaker 1: the only thing that matters exactly, Like all that other

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Speaker 1: stuff is garbage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 2: stoicism is becoming appealing again, is this idea that, like

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Speaker 2: work seems to be kind of going through a weird transformation,

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Speaker 2: doesn't it. Yeah, Like it's not like that anymore. Like

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Speaker 2: that ethic is still around for sure, but like, how

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Speaker 2: many people do you know work from home? Like almost

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Speaker 2: entirely A lot a lot, And that's fairly new. So

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Speaker 2: I wonder if like this changing work dynamic is leading

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Speaker 2: to this resurgence in stoicism that you can find happiness

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Speaker 2: through other stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, part of me thinks this is all like

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Speaker 1: super worthwhile, and part of me thinks and it's sort

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Speaker 1: of indulgent to set and a bit like you said,

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Speaker 1: naval gaysy and like put just start practicing good things

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Speaker 1: instead of sitting around thinking about the best way to

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Speaker 1: live life.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about criticisms of them later on, but

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Speaker 2: I think you hit a big one though, Chuck, was

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Speaker 2: the idea that it's self indulgent because it demands introspection

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Speaker 2: almost every mo of every day. Yeah, you want to

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Speaker 2: take a break and then get back to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta, I gotta get my head together. Where's

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Speaker 1: the airplane glue? All right?

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Speaker 2: Nothing like airplane glue to get your head back on straight.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding, of course. Everyone. Sure we're smart guys, we

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Speaker 1: don't do that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: No, it's pretty tough to be smart and huff model

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Speaker 2: airplane glue. Yeah, you're pretty much making a choice between

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Speaker 2: that and being smart.

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Speaker 1: That's what they teach you early on. Yeah, like you

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Speaker 1: want to go somewhere life, you want to half airplane glue.

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Speaker 1: It's the one thing Nancy Reagan didn't lie about. All right,

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Speaker 1: So Zeno got things going. Peace of mind that comes

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Speaker 1: with living a life of virtue in accordance with reason

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Speaker 1: and nature. And then other dudes got on boards, and

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Speaker 1: of course got on boards got on board, and they

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Speaker 1: were all dudes back then, because everything was from the

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Speaker 1: man's perspective. Uh just want to point that out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's changed so dramatically since then.

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Speaker 1: But some of the other early stoicist Clianthes Kato.

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Speaker 2: Kato the younger, elder younger, right, Kato the klin oh

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Speaker 2: I forgot about him.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure which Kto.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the younger. Yeah, we'll find out from

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Speaker 2: two people who email.

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Speaker 1: In to Seneca. And then a very important stoicis Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pronounce.

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Speaker 3: It epic epet Epictetus, epictetus. Epetic sounds like a vaccine shot.

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Speaker 3: It does E P I C T E T U s.

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Speaker 1: It's that C.

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Speaker 2: Going into a T that's getting you. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 2: Epictetus or Epictetus. I think epictetis is what we should

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Speaker 2: go with.

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Speaker 1: I want another C in there. I want it to

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Speaker 1: be Epitectus, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not. It's Epictetus, all right. So u oh,

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Speaker 2: and don't forget Marcus Aurelius Man.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, sure, I mean he comes a little bit later.

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Speaker 1: He was he was the ruler of anthant Man. What

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Speaker 1: is my problem today.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, man, everyone knew what you meant.

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Speaker 1: He was the philosopher king, and that was when Stoicism

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Speaker 1: was kind of the most popular thing going. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Apparently they moved from Athens to Rome, which I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize this. I always had the idea that Rome venerated

402
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Speaker 2: Hellenistic Greece hundreds of years after basically the Greek civilization

403
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Speaker 2: had had just kind of, you know, gone into a

404
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Speaker 2: bit of a twilight or had gone out of its heyday. No,

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Speaker 2: there was total cross pollination, including some of these early

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Speaker 2: Stoics who traveled from Athens to Rome, and basically with

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Speaker 2: with that move transferred the seed of philosophy from Athens

408
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Speaker 2: to Rome, from Greek to Rome to Rome, from Greece

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Speaker 2: to Rome. I didn't realize that there were they were

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Speaker 2: actually like cross pollinating one another at the time. Did

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Speaker 2: you know that?

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Speaker 1: I think I recalled that from deep in my college memory.

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Speaker 1: Banks nice.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: So Epitectus Tetus man he had a big role in

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Speaker 1: the Stoic movement. He was a former slave, which kind

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Speaker 1: of makes sense in terms of Stoicism.

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Speaker 2: He almost almost single handedly gives credence to Stoicism because

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Speaker 2: so many other Stoics were extraordinarily wealthy, powerful man sure

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Speaker 2: that it's like, yeah, it's pretty easy for you to

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Speaker 2: go through life saying, you know, it's just just take

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Speaker 2: what life gives you. If life is giving you nothing

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Speaker 2: but gold bullion all the time. Right, this guy was

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Speaker 2: born a slave, crippled in the knee for life and

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Speaker 2: became a Stoic, one of the great Stoic thinkers, and

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Speaker 2: just through his life proved that stoicism can work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And he wrote a handbook at the time was

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Speaker 1: called an Encritean, and he wrote the Encridian of Epictetus.

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Speaker 2: Incridium literally means handbook. It means ready at hand.

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Speaker 1: So it was a very famous handbook. And he attributed

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first line of it was some things

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Speaker 1: are in our control and others not right, and that

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Speaker 1: kind of sums it all up, like he could have

434
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: said the end, but he decided to dive a little deeper.

435
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think our brand of Stoicism

436
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: has about the same contours because that that right there,

437
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: that's all. That's everything you need to know, right there

438
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: is some things you can control, most things you can't control.

439
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: There you go, don't get too.

440
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: High, too low, right, don't get too mad about something.

441
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, I think that's what it boils down to.

442
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: I don't really find much of a problem when people

443
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: are overjoyed. I don't think that's an issue. And technically,

444
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: with stoicism, that is a that's a problem. You should

445
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: not become overjoyed. Experiencing joy is fine, sure, but just

446
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: being like overcome with happiness or joy or grief or

447
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: whatever it is, you're you're violating one of those four

448
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: cardinal virtues, temperance, which is just being tempered and even keeled.

449
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Right.

450
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: So, but I think if you're saying, don't get upset

451
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: about something that's out of your control, don't blame others,

452
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: don't try to control other people, just know that whatever

453
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: comes you can handle it. There you go, That's all

454
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: you need to know for me.

455
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I mean, how many times have

456
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: you heard me say it is what it is? Which

457
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: is an annoying thing to hear and say.

458
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 2: But it's pretty stoic.

459
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: Well it is, but it's also in my case, it

460
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: is what it is until it isn't. It just matters

461
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: if I personally riled up about something, you know.

462
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think again though, if like, there's probably

463
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: some people who listen who subscribe to at least modern

464
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: stoicism listening to this, and I would guess that they

465
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: would say that's because stoicism is basically meant to apply

466
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: to every day of your life. Like, no, Stoics are

467
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: really expected to become stages in their lifetimes, right that

468
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: it's something you just do every single day, is try

469
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: to not get riled up. But of course something's going

470
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 2: to come along and get you riled up. That's just

471
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: human nature. Stoicism is trying to put a bridle on

472
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: that human nature.

473
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and this is insider stuff. I think you

474
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: and I compliment each other because we rarely get worked

475
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: up about the same thing.

476
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: Just voter suppression.

477
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: Well, no, it happens here and there, but just in

478
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: our personal lives and everything to do with work, Like

479
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: oftentimes I've noticed, like something that'll rile me up, you're

480
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: calming me down and the other way around. And yeah,

481
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's one reason we've lasted so long.

482
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: Like if two people were so similar that they're constantly

483
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: worked up about the same stuff, Yeah, no, one, you know,

484
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: you're just gonna be working each other up, and no

485
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: one's going to be there to say, hey, man, it

486
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: is what it is.

487
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, hey, mellow out, here's the Bob Marley bumpers exactly.

488
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: So should we talk a little bit about the areas

489
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: of study, Yeah, all right, Well there are three main

490
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 1: ones and stoicism and this is all you know to

491
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: deal with introspection, which is kind of like all philosophies.

492
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: Physics is the first thing. And it's not physics like

493
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: you think of that you hate studying in high school.

494
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: Well, it falls under a larger umbrella term, I guess.

495
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. They're talking about the natural world, the natural you know,

496
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: and also what lies beyond it. And when they say

497
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: the natural world, they're talking about everything God, the divine nature,

498
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: everything that we know and things that we don't know.

499
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything we would view as science or like you said, nature, Yeah,

500
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: all that stuff that's physics and all of it. That

501
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 2: One of the things the Stoics, I think, if they

502
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: weren't the first to come up with it, they definitely

503
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: popularized it was the idea that all of this was interconnected. Yeah,

504
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: which is pretty I mean, you take it for granted today,

505
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: like everybody thinks that everything's interconnected these days.

506
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but.

507
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: It's to be among the first to kind of point

508
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: that out or suggest that it's pretty pretty significant contribution

509
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: to Western thought.

510
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine that was a pretty deep thing when it

511
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: first started hitting people, you know.

512
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: Can't you just see George Carlin being like, oh, you.

513
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: Just blew my mind? Oh because he was so great?

514
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Man.

515
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: Wait, no, he wasn't so crazy. He was he was

516
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: the guy their spirit a Yeah, what.

517
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: Was his name? Oh? Man got killed on this.

518
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: We'll just edit this part out.

519
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I had to brush up on my

520
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: bill and deed.

521
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: I didn't either. I surprised myself. You should have seen

522
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: my face.

523
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: You know. They kept they kept talking about remakes, like

524
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: as recently as a couple of years ago, I think,

525
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: or not remakes, but uh sequels with the originals. Oh yeah,

526
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: Like Kenna Reeves was like, man, I love those movies.

527
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: I'd love to make another one.

528
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: Did you see what what was?

529
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: So?

530
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: Was Keanu Reeves?

531
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: Bill? Or Ted?

532
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: Why are we even doing this to ourselves?

533
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: Boy? I want to say he was Ted?

534
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: So the guy who played the other guy?

535
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Alex Winter.

536
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: Oh geez, Chuck.

537
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

538
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: Nice chob So Alex Winter was in what was the

539
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: Charles Bronson view Cola is most famous death Wish Death

540
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: Wish three. Death Wish three was what he was in,

541
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: which was when Gol and Globis got their hands on

542
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: it and turned it into like schlock, violent, like almost

543
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: post apocalyptic movie. Yeah, and he's great in it. But

544
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: he's also in a documentary on Golan Globis. I can't

545
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: remember what the name of the name of the documentaries,

546
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: but it's just about how bad the movies they made

547
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: were and how how gleefully these guys made them. But

548
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: he's interviewed in it. That guy hasn't aged a day.

549
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: No, he looks exactly Bill.

550
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's Bill.

551
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: Yeah all right.

552
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: So, uh so we got that settled. Physics is done.

553
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: What's next? Logic, which they wanted to include social scientists, psychology, sociology, history,

554
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: which I kind of like, I'm down with that as

555
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: far as the philosophies go. They want to include all

556
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: this stuff. But electively they kind of called this all reason.

557
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: It was a very big deal to stoicism, perhaps the

558
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: biggest deal, right.

559
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: And they also were engaged in epistemology, which is theories

560
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: of what knowledge is, how we gain knowledge, what's true,

561
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: what's belief, what's false? How do we differentiate between these things?

562
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: And they spend a lot of time investigating this and

563
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: putting it all under logic, because it was through logic

564
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: that you could investigate physics, which included investigating God and

565
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: the nature of universe and stuff like that. And then

566
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: through all that investigation, that introspection, that naval gazing, you

567
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: were ultimately figuring out how to best pursue and best

568
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: live out the third part, which was the ethics of

569
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: the whole thing.

570
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you mentioned the four great virtues earlier, courage, justice, wisdom,

571
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: and temperance, And the whole idea here is uh, it's

572
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: it's not like you want to block out the bad

573
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and only embrace the good. You like, you want to

574
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: consider both the good and the bad, but just don't

575
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: let any of it get in the way of anything

576
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: that you're trying to pursue in your life.

577
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: Right, pretty simple.

578
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the whole good bad thing. Where did you

579
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: find this this thing on ethics?

580
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: Was that the that was the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

581
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: from their from their entry on it. Yeah, it's pretty

582
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: pretty good. The whole thing was. Dude, you should have

583
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: seen how in depth they go though, But I thought

584
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: this one was a good snippet.

585
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure, yeah, they dive pretty deep, but I

586
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: thought this was a pretty good little summation there. You know,

587
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: they're talking about, like you said, like money isn't just

588
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: not good or a ka bad. Things like this they

589
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: called indifference as in I N D I F F

590
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: E R E N T S. Right, not indifference, And

591
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: it's like not good or bad. It could be either one.

592
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: It's really kind of all about not letting something like

593
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: that get in the way of your pursuit.

594
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: Right, So and again it went back to wealth, right,

595
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: And this person in the Encyclopedia of Philosophy points out

596
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: that like money, definitely being wealthy usually is helpful or

597
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: beneficial to the individual. Sure, but it can also not

598
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: be beneficial. Where say you have a big heroin problem, Well,

599
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: the more money you get, the more money you're going

600
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: to spend on heroin. So in that case, being wealthy

601
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: is detrimental to you're not beneficial. And for something to

602
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: be a good it has to be good under all circumstances,

603
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: and to a stoic only there's only four things that

604
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: are good under all circumstances, which are those four cardinal virtues.

605
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: Everything else, like you said, is an indifferent and it

606
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: can either be preferred or dispreferred, like wealth typically would

607
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: fall under being a preferred and different, whereas say, disease,

608
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: having chronic disease would be a dispropered dispropered, wow, a

609
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: dispreferred indifferent man.

610
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: That's tough though it is.

611
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: But the point is is whether it's fabulous wealth or diabetes,

612
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: they should affect you about the same or you might

613
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: want one, you might not want to have one. But

614
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: if you have either one, you can live with it.

615
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 2: And that brings up a huge, huge component of stoicism

616
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: that's really been blown up and exploded in the twenty

617
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: first century, which is you should take adversity and turn

618
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: it into an opportunity for growth. That is a huge

619
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: aspect of stoicism that's really being practiced and espoused these days.

620
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm down with that. Like I don't think I

621
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: like being able to take from all these philosophies and

622
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: different religions to form your sort of pathway through life,

623
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, sure, Like when I hear sometimes I started

624
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: to read about Buddhism and the whole thing with Buddhism

625
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: of like every day you start anew and you have

626
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: a new chance. Like that really appeals to me too, Right.

627
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: What I don't like is when either religions or philosophies

628
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: say like like this is the only way and everything

629
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: else is BS. Sure you know, yeah, that just that's

630
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: a harsh buzzkill.

631
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: It really is. Not only is a BS, but I'm

632
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: going to kill you for thinking otherwise.

633
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

634
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: So Seneca who was one of the great thinkers of Stoicism.

635
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 2: He was an advisor to Nero, and we'll talk about

636
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 2: him as criticism of Stoicism later on, but he had

637
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: a very famous quote where he says, you are unfortunate

638
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 2: in my judgment, for you have never been unfortunate. You

639
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: have passed through life with no antagonist to face you.

640
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: No one will know what you are capable of, not

641
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: even yourself, And that kind of shapes the basis of

642
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: that idea that no matter what life throws at you,

643
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: you take it and you say I'm going to become

644
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: a better person from this, like oh this happened, Well,

645
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: that's great because that means that I can learn to

646
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: be better at this. So my dog just got hit

647
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: by a car. I'm going to practice fortitude and make

648
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: it through this really hard time and become a stronger

649
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: person on the other side.

650
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, he may as well have said, you comma trust

651
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: fund kid, kamma.

652
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: Sure right exactly, And I mean that that makes a

653
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: people turn that on Seneca as well, but a lot

654
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: of modern Stoics come to his defense. Is like, no, like,

655
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: I had a harder life than you would think.

656
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Yeah, all right, let's do it,

657
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about Seneca and Cicero and all other

658
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: kinds of weird names.

659
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, you were saying, you were talking about religion.

660
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: Stoicism apparently informed Christianity in a lot of ways.

661
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Buddhism in some ways. Yeah, yet atheists embrace it.

662
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: It's kind of weird these days. But I mean, the

663
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: early Stoics were definitely they definitely believed in a divine intervention.

664
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: It was kind of the basis of the whole thing,

665
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: that this is God's will, So why try to control it?

666
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: Who are you to try to control it? Just roll

667
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: with the punches.

668
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big When when I was taking all

669
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: those philosophy quizzes, they're all a little bit different, but

670
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: you saw through line through a lot of these questions,

671
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: and the free will one was in every single one

672
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, like, how do you feel about free will?

673
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: And different ways of asking it, but you know.

674
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: You will what do you think exactly?

675
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: If you want to find out which philosophy that you

676
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: jibe with, you have to answer the free will question.

677
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: Free will question.

678
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, that's easier to say than just preferred indifferent.

679
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: Nice work.

680
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: So one of the big points, especially today for practicing

681
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: stoicism is looking at adversity as a growth opportunity for growth.

682
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: Right right, That's just a good tool in life.

683
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: I think another one and this one, I really this

684
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: is where I big time diverge from stoicism as like

685
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: a part of a daily practice is something called negative visualization.

686
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, uh, try and try and imagine the worst

687
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: case scenario constantly. Yeah, I'm not into that at all.

688
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: No. So, say you say you're at like your child's

689
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: birthday party, right, and you are not you specifically, this

690
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: is you just a general person and you're having just

691
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: the most intense moment of joy and appreciation for your

692
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: child According to stoics, you should follow that up with

693
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 2: a thought about how at your child's next doctor's appointment,

694
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: your child could be diagnosed with terminal leukemia.

695
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

696
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: That that is what you should be doing basically all

697
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: the time, negative visualization. And the idea is it's twofold one.

698
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: You're preventing yourself from becoming overjoyed at that moment. Don't

699
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: don't do that. Yeah, and then secondly, you're you're exploring

700
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: how you will feel if your kid does get diagnosed

701
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: to something horrible or something bad happens, and that when

702
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: it actually happens, you'll say that's not so bad, I'm

703
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: already used to it, or you'll be able to confront

704
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 2: it through your imagination and say, this is what I'm

705
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: afraid of. That's not that bad. But I mean, it's

706
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: a really extreme, horrific example.

707
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: But it is.

708
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: Ultimately it's definitely in step with stoicism that you should

709
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 2: be visualizing the worst case scenario all the time.

710
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, And that's one of the reasons stoicism

711
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: has such a downer reputation, such that Cicero wrote a

712
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: stoic rouse enthusiasm. He is much more likely to extinguish

713
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,919
Speaker 1: any enthusiasm, the student may have to begin with burn. Yeah,

714
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: it was a pretty good burn. And you know, I

715
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: get that. Like, who would if that was one of

716
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: the first things you learned if you started to poke

717
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: around with stoicism, ninety nine percent of people would probably

718
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: be like, Man, I don't want to. I don't like

719
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: the sounds of that.

720
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like the not having to control everything aspect,

721
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: but the thinking about nothing but negative thoughts all the time. Yeah,

722
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: you know, And I get the point of it. I

723
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: just it doesn't It doesn't appeal to me.

724
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: No, I mean, you shouldn't be Pollyanna either. Well.

725
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: No, it's it's in direct contradiction to the idea of

726
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: the power of positive thinking, right, which is stoics like, you, fool,

727
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: what are you doing? All you're doing is setting yourself

728
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: up for nothing but letdowns when that doesn't actually come true.

729
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: Well, but I also agree with that to a certain degree,

730
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, like the whole like just you can conjure

731
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: it up just by thinking positively. I think that's on

732
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: the opposite side equally, uh bs.

733
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, I think so too.

734
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: I'm kind of right down the middle. I guess when

735
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: it comes to that.

736
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: Stuff, and I think most people are. But I think

737
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: that's what's fascinating about this kind of thing is it's like, well,

738
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 2: well there's some people actually are these these degrees, these extremes.

739
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me.

740
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: Well yeah, And the other interesting thing is we you know,

741
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: you're talking about Christianity, and then it's weird how Stoicism

742
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: on one hand, like atheists like I can totally see

743
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: how they'd be down with Stoicism, but also the whole

744
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: notion that some believers in God and some Christians like

745
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: give it all up to God because only God can

746
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: control anything. So all we're going to do is pray

747
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: about it, and that's popular among Stoics as well. Right,

748
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: So it's just interesting that it has such a wide

749
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: range as far as from atheism to like the you know, serious, serious,

750
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: give it up to God Christianity.

751
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, no, it definitely, yeah, it almost It's kind

752
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: of like it's that buffet thing again where people can

753
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 2: come along and take what they want from it and

754
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: it becomes part of their own philosophy or their own

755
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: religion or whatever. Let's talk about some of the ways

756
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: that that it's been used over the year's stoicism, right, Okay,

757
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: so there's been a lot of people who have followed

758
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: Stoic thought, like Adam Smith apparently was very much informed

759
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 2: by Stoicism when he wrote The Wealth of Nations because

760
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 2: one of the big, big aspects of it was individual liberty.

761
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: One cool thing about the early Stoics was that everybody's equal. Yeah,

762
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter whether you're a man, woman, gay, straight, black, white, whatever,

763
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: everyone is equal. And this was at a time when

764
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: slavery was rampant, right, Yeah, so that was a big,

765
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: a big that's a big aspect too. That's a big

766
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 2: aspect of the Wealth of Nations is anybody can come

767
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: along and become a capitalist. You just have to compete, right.

768
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: Another place that it popped up kind of famously was

769
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: in cognitive behavioral therapy.

770
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, which initially when I saw that, I was like, huh,

771
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: that kind of surprised me, But then it all made sense,

772
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: Like exposure to something bad can help you get over

773
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: it is kind of like that conjuring up the worst

774
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: possible It's almost numbing yourself to the worst possible thing.

775
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: If you think about that worst case scenario thing all

776
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: the time. It's almost a way of preparing for that.

777
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's rooted specifically. One of the founders of CBT,

778
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: Albert Ellis, was an adherent of Stoicism as a younger man,

779
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,959
Speaker 2: and what's known as the cognitive model of emotion, which

780
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: is the basis of cognitive behavioral therapy, is based on

781
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: Epictetis's maxim that people are disturbed not by things, but

782
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: by their view of things. And that's part of that

783
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 2: whole Stoic philosophy, which is nothing is good or bad.

784
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: There's only good in the four virtues. Everything else is

785
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: how you view it.

786
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: Yea.

787
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: Whether it's losing your job or winning the lottery, those

788
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: things aren't inherently good or bad. It's you, the person

789
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: experiencing that, who bestows good or bad on them. Yeah,

790
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: and why label things?

791
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: Sure, I'm down with that, Yeah a little bit.

792
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: Did you hear about Admiral Stockdale.

793
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that name for sure. When he came

794
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: out with his book Courage under Fire, colon Testing Eptectus's

795
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: Doctrines and the Laboratory of Human Behavior in nineteen ninety three.

796
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: He was a famous prisoner of war in Vietnam for

797
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: seven years, endured some of the worst of the worst

798
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 1: you can imagine in war. And what got him through

799
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: was certainly not Christianity, because he thought that's nothing but

800
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: false hope.

801
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: Well, not only that, he shared the pow camp with

802
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: people who who clung to that and did not make it.

803
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he saw it right up front, right, So

804
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: what got him through was his stoic beliefs.

805
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a huge, big time adherent of Epictetus.

806
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: He'd studied him in college. Apparently he'd read everything that

807
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: Epictetus had written or said that had been written down

808
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: and attributed to Epictetus twice from two different translators. So

809
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: this guy knew his Epictetus. And he said, well, I'm

810
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: a prisoner of war in Vietnam. I've got some broken bones,

811
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: I'm starving, I'm being mistreated. I'll be here for seven years.

812
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: What a perfect opportunity to put Epictetus's teachings to the

813
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 2: test in a real life laboratory experiment. And he said

814
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: Epictetus passed. The flying Colors. Was Stockdale's final report on it.

815
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, if Epictetus's lecture room was a hospital,

816
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 1: my prison was a laboratory, a laboratory of human behavior.

817
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: I chose to test his postulates against the demanding real

818
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: life challenges of my laboratory. So, man, talk of out

819
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: a strong will like to be faced with that and

820
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: be like, well, hey, this is a great chance to

821
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: work on my philosophy of life.

822
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: Exactly what else am I going to do? But that

823
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: follows in and of itself on the whole too, of

824
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: turning adversity into a room for growth as well.

825
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, stronger than me. Let's just say that.

826
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: So you want to talk about some criticisms of Stoicism.

827
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: Well, Cicero certainly thought it was a big.

828
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: Downer, yeah, he said, Well you already said what he said, right, Yeah,

829
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: it basically extinguishes enthusiasm and students. Not a good thing. Right,

830
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: And over the years, the fact that some of the

831
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: great Stoic thinkers of all time have been super wealthy

832
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: and powerful. Seneca Marcus Aurelius was the Emperor of Rome.

833
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: He basically ran the free world. Well, I don't know

834
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: if the free worlds right, the Western world for almost

835
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: twenty years. Yeah, And when you sit there and yeah again,

836
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 2: if you say yes, you can turn anything into any

837
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: adversity into an opportunity. If you're super wealthy and you

838
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about where your food's gonna come from. Like, yes,

839
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,919
Speaker 2: of course you can be a Stoic. And then Epictetis

840
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: came along and, like we said, kind of erased all

841
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: that to an extent for sure, but it is still

842
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: kind of criticized as like a wealthy person's philosophy, and

843
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 2: it kind of smacks of that a little bit today too, Chuck,

844
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: with its huge resurgence in Silicon Valley.

845
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: Oh is that happening?

846
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, most of the Stoic revival is taking place there.

847
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 2: That's where it's cradle is right now.

848
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: Well, our own article has a couple of good points

849
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: to talk about it not being as appealing because it

850
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: lacks the mystique of Eastern practice. And then they also

851
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: said this, it's also regarded as a philosophy of merely

852
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: breaking even while remaining determinedly impassive.

853
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know if that's entirely fair, but it's

854
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: as it kind of catches it a little bit.

855
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the very next sentences, this attitude ignores

856
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: the promise proffered by stoicism of lasting transcendence. And that

857
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: one article that you said talked about the power of indifference, right,

858
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting. It's not about just like

859
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: not caring about anything. It's about caring about only the

860
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: right things that you have the power to change. Yeah.

861
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 2: And also though I also see that even keel aspect

862
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 2: being indifferent, the power of it. I mean, think about

863
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: how much time whenever you are like super happy about

864
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 2: something going right or super upset about something going wrong,

865
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 2: you're ultimately you're being distracted from keeping on keeping on.

866
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and then you go back to eventually get

867
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 2: back to that middle again, which is the baseline anyway.

868
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: And so I guess what stoics are doing is staying

869
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: on that baseline and not being distracted so they can

870
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: get further along faster or at a more steady pace.

871
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's definitely something that's really frustrating in life,

872
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: which is when you look back and say, man, I've

873
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: spent two days stressed and worried about something that I

874
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: have no control over, right, And what a waste of

875
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: time that was when I could have done X, Y,

876
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: and Z.

877
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: One of the big questions I have, it's not necessarily

878
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: a criticism, I guess it depends on what the answer

879
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 2: would be. But my big question for stoicism, since it's

880
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: so it places so much emphasis on the individual and

881
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: self exploration and introspection. How would a stoic suggest enacting

882
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: massive social change? Where something some ill is happening to

883
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: some large group of people, but nothing's going to change

884
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 2: unless you go out of your own personal sphere and

885
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: work to make others change. Right, how do you do that?

886
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: Or do you just say, well, whatever, it's God's will

887
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 2: that these people suffer and be put down by the

888
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 2: majority forever, or is there some way that that can

889
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 2: be addressed through the stoic you know, philosophy. I'm very curious.

890
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: So anybody who knows that right end, please.

891
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's why it appeals to Silicon Valley. Right.

892
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing too, right. So it also

893
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: very much smacks when when you hear of it from

894
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 2: like wealthy people espousing it to anybody, it smacks of

895
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: that whole aspect of Christianity where hey, medieval peasant, you

896
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 2: know how your life is terrible and you're going to

897
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,479
Speaker 2: live to thirty five and all you do is work

898
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: all the time, and you give most of the spoils

899
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 2: of your effort to your king. Well, there's such a

900
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: thing as Christianity, and your treasure is in the afterlife,

901
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 2: so don't worry about this life. Yeah, it smacks the

902
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: same thing where you can keep a population placated and

903
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: not searching for larger social change by saying, hey, just

904
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: focus on these four things and everything else is just

905
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 2: It just happens, and you don't need to get worked

906
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 2: up about it at all. It seems like a bit

907
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 2: of a pacifier too. Yeah, depending on how you look

908
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 2: at it, it's fascinating. Are we done with stoicism?

909
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: I finished with it?

910
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: Okay?

911
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: I think that was a good overview.

912
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: I think so too.

913
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: It's a good thought starter.

914
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about stoicism, Bud, there's

915
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: a lot more out there than this. Just dive in

916
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: and see what it means to you. And again, it's

917
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,479
Speaker 2: a buffet. Take what you like, leave what you don't want,

918
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: leave the kerdle pudding behind, Take the perfectly garlic green beans. Yeah,

919
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: if you what else? Did I already say that one part?

920
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: Oh?

921
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: Since I said green beans, it's time for listener mail.

922
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this Beagle Brigade slash police dogs.

923
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: People love that.

924
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: One man who doesn't love beatles, Beagles on brigade, on parade.

925
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: No one, even people who get busted with whole pigs

926
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: still are like that. Beagles adorable.

927
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: So this dude, Eric Stover is a sandwicher, meaning he

928
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: follows our advice, which is to listen to the newest

929
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: episode as well as whatever from our back catalog. He

930
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: chooses to Yeah, he's doing it right. Hey, guys are

931
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: working the sports and entertainment business in New York and

932
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: after nine to eleven, the use of bomb sniffing dogs,

933
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: mostly German shepherds, became standard operating procedure for all events.

934
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: If you ares, prior to a concert one night, the

935
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: canine units were sweeping all the backstage areas and one

936
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: of the bomb dogs hit on an employee locker, so

937
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: you can imagine it caused an immediate and serious response.

938
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: A bomb squad was dispatched and that portion of the

939
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 1: arena was evacuated. Plans were even made to cancel the show.

940
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: He doesn't say what show, which I was very curious about.

941
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to say three doors down.

942
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: Okay. After some very tense moments, the police officers opened

943
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 1: the locker. Those guys are super brave, thankfully they didn't

944
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: find a bomb, but did find drugs. An employee must

945
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: have thought, must have brought in an extra bump for

946
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: the show.

947
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 2: Oh man, it was definitely three doors Down.

948
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: You might be asking yourself. No, this wasn't the band's

949
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: green room. This was an employee.

950
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I know, I know. Three Doors Down. Three Doors

951
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: Downs fans are among the most drug addled of all

952
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 2: music plans? Are they sure?

953
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: I thought that was the Juggalos?

954
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 2: No, they put the Juggalos a shame. Jugglers take time

955
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: off once in a while, you know what I mean?

956
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Uh, you might be asking yourself, how

957
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,439
Speaker 1: does a bomb dog find drugs? As it turns out,

958
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: the dog had failed out of drug school and was

959
00:54:54,920 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: retrained as a bomb talk poor guy. That's hilarious, isn't it?

960
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: Poor guy?

961
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 2: Which one the dog or the guy who just happened

962
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: to run across the failed drug dog? I guess I

963
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: still remembered something.

964
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: There are no winners here. I guess he didn't completely

965
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: forget his drug training, though, and he set off a

966
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: chain of events that scared the crap out of us.

967
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: The story ends with the employee getting arrested. The show

968
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: went on and the fans none the wiser. My guess

969
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: is the dog was reassigned to crowd control.

970
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: Just barking up people. Keep back in line.

971
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for everything you guys do. Please let me know

972
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: if you ever need anything in New York City. Is

973
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: that a hint?

974
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 2: We don't do drugs, Eric, Yeah, we're terrified of dogs.

975
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,800
Speaker 1: That is Eric Stover in New York and I guess

976
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: he's still in the sports and entertainment business.

977
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, you need some sports, Come see me.

978
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: I could use some sports.

979
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: Thanks Eric. That's a pretty great story, right, that's right.

980
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 2: If you want to get in touch with this like

981
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: Eric did, you can send us an email to Stuff

982
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 2: Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

983
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

984
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

985
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.