WEBVTT - Selects: How Bras Work 0:00:00.750 --> 0:00:03.610 Hey everybody, it's Josh. And yeah, we did an episode 0:00:03.690 --> 0:00:07.170 on bras. What of it? Yeah, we're two dudes. But 0:00:07.390 --> 0:00:10.630 we're carrying on a long-standing tradition, we found out. Because 0:00:10.690 --> 0:00:13.209 it turns out that just about every bra in history, 0:00:13.470 --> 0:00:16.210 and then go back pretty far, was invented by a man. 0:00:16.810 --> 0:00:18.910 And that includes the guy who filed the patent for 0:00:18.930 --> 0:00:22.750 the first modern bra. This also explains why, until very recently, 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.579 bras were profoundly uncomfortable and usually had some sort of 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:31.170 lace or something. And maybe were see-through. That's neither here 0:00:31.230 --> 0:00:34.730 nor there, though, because in this episode, we cover everything 0:00:34.770 --> 0:00:36.510 there is to know about bras, and I feel like 0:00:36.530 --> 0:00:39.250 we came out of it as better people. I'll leave 0:00:39.290 --> 0:00:41.530 it to you to decide how we did. Either way, 0:00:41.850 --> 0:00:50.740 enjoy this episode from 2020 on bras. Welcome to Stuff 0:00:50.760 --> 0:01:00.010 You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome 0:01:00.050 --> 0:01:02.730 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. 0:01:02.790 --> 0:01:07.390 Chuck Bryant. And it's just us again. 0:01:07.410 --> 0:01:09.509 It's just us. 0:01:10.890 --> 0:01:11.709 We've lost Jerry. 0:01:12.450 --> 0:01:15.010 I'm in the studio like I was on the last one, 0:01:15.050 --> 0:01:17.970 but it's still a ghost studio. There's no one here. Sure. 0:01:19.020 --> 0:01:23.660 Except for Tommy Chong and the radio, or the record player, right? 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:25.640 Sure. 0:01:26.220 --> 0:01:30.179 Good. We'll just leave it at that. We said that 0:01:30.580 --> 0:01:35.110 we have somebody poised to, like, scratch the needle off 0:01:35.140 --> 0:01:39.530 the record several episodes ago. Yeah, I remember that. And 0:01:39.550 --> 0:01:42.110 that it was Tommy Chong whose job it was to 0:01:42.150 --> 0:01:42.630 do that now. 0:01:43.050 --> 0:01:44.010 That's right. Good callback. 0:01:44.510 --> 0:01:48.390 Thank you. Should we talk bras? Yeah, we're talking bras, man, 0:01:48.670 --> 0:01:51.050 which I appreciate it when we do stuff like this, 0:01:51.110 --> 0:01:53.970 episodes like this, because we have to try harder because 0:01:54.010 --> 0:01:56.290 we're men, you know? Sure. 0:01:56.310 --> 0:01:56.530 Sure. 0:01:57.350 --> 0:01:58.010 The usual. 0:01:58.130 --> 0:02:00.030 It's the only time we have to try harder in life. 0:02:00.690 --> 0:02:06.060 Sadly, that is kind of true. But we haven't shied 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.940 away from topics that have very little to do with us, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:14.240 like corsets. We did one on how corsets work. Do 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:17.160 you remember that? We totally did. A whole episode on corsets. 0:02:17.730 --> 0:02:18.169 Jeez. 0:02:18.750 --> 0:02:21.450 We did one on female puberty. 0:02:22.250 --> 0:02:23.190 Yeah. Foot binding. 0:02:23.610 --> 0:02:26.770 Yeah. We've done a lot of them. So this is just— 0:02:27.540 --> 0:02:30.420 One in the same. A three is a lot when 0:02:30.460 --> 0:02:31.579 it comes to this kind of stuff. 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.990 Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. And we did mention doing 0:02:36.060 --> 0:02:38.040 one on menstruation not too long ago. And we got 0:02:38.060 --> 0:02:40.500 a bunch of supportive emails saying like, yes, guys, please, 0:02:40.620 --> 0:02:42.690 please do that. Like, there's no reason why you shouldn't. 0:02:42.870 --> 0:02:45.470 I've been menstruating for 50 years and I still don't 0:02:45.490 --> 0:02:46.850 understand it. Please explain. 0:02:47.410 --> 0:02:48.329 Yeah, exactly. 0:02:49.310 --> 0:02:52.490 So actually, we have not gotten that email, although we 0:02:52.510 --> 0:02:54.710 wouldn't know if we had, you know. 0:02:56.150 --> 0:02:59.250 Yeah, because our email server's down. Sorry if you've been bounced, everyone. 0:02:59.510 --> 0:03:03.550 Yeah, we're working on it. Yep. So we're talking bras, 0:03:04.590 --> 0:03:08.329 which is short for brassiere, which doesn't have a definite 0:03:08.610 --> 0:03:10.530 origin as far as we know. We think that it 0:03:10.590 --> 0:03:14.470 came about in the 20th century, early 20th century. I 0:03:14.510 --> 0:03:17.090 think it first appeared in print in 1907 or something 0:03:17.110 --> 0:03:20.550 like that. And in French, it means one of two things. 0:03:20.870 --> 0:03:24.070 It means either arm covering, which is, I think, derived 0:03:24.110 --> 0:03:28.140 from medieval armor, French medieval armor. Don't know. And then 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.240 the other thing I saw was a child's vest, which 0:03:32.380 --> 0:03:34.980 that to me is just lovely. If that's what they're 0:03:35.020 --> 0:03:37.200 trying to say with the bra, that it's like a 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:43.170 child-sized vest that you wear over your breasts, I love 0:03:43.210 --> 0:03:43.750 that idea. 0:03:43.770 --> 0:03:48.150 You want to know something funny? Yes. For the first 0:03:48.150 --> 0:03:50.910 10 minutes researching this, this was put together by our 0:03:50.950 --> 0:03:55.320 pal Dave Ruse. I kept thinking, why is Ruse, why 0:03:55.340 --> 0:03:57.180 does he keep talking about brasseries? Why does he keep 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.060 talking about quaint little French restaurants? 0:04:00.100 --> 0:04:00.760 That's funny. 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.000 It's very close. It looks like brassiere. 0:04:03.300 --> 0:04:07.710 It does. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. I think 0:04:07.950 --> 0:04:10.930 if that I was just a little further toward the end, 0:04:11.690 --> 0:04:15.780 we would be talking about casual French restaurants. The TGI 0:04:15.820 --> 0:04:19.380 Fridays of France. Well, that's better than my experience. For 0:04:19.420 --> 0:04:23.279 the first 30 minutes, I was researching nothing but car bras. 0:04:24.460 --> 0:04:28.039 Oh, God. The LeBras. Remember those? No. 0:04:28.060 --> 0:04:30.099 I remember the car. 0:04:31.420 --> 0:04:33.620 I think there was a LeBras, which was one of 0:04:33.670 --> 0:04:37.010 the big popular models at the time for like Porsches 0:04:37.070 --> 0:04:37.770 and stuff like that. 0:04:37.970 --> 0:04:39.070 I don't remember that at all. 0:04:39.750 --> 0:04:42.500 You know, my dad very stupidly bought a Porsche when 0:04:42.540 --> 0:04:43.220 I was in high school. 0:04:43.460 --> 0:04:45.500 Oh, no, with that food truck money? 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.800 With that big public school teacher money. He went out 0:04:50.980 --> 0:04:55.440 and bought a Porsche and surprised my mom and the 0:04:55.460 --> 0:04:59.310 rest of the family with a sweet Porsche 911. 0:04:59.310 --> 0:05:00.090 Like a new one? 0:05:00.710 --> 0:05:03.390 That no one was allowed to, like, breathe on. No, 0:05:03.430 --> 0:05:04.130 it wasn't new. 0:05:04.570 --> 0:05:05.410 Doesn't matter. 0:05:05.850 --> 0:05:08.490 But he very quickly went out, and this is very 0:05:08.529 --> 0:05:11.090 my dad, And like the next week he had like 0:05:11.270 --> 0:05:16.550 the Porsche eyes odd, the Porsche glasses, the Porsche hat. And, uh, 0:05:16.980 --> 0:05:18.479 we didn't have that for very long. I think I 0:05:18.510 --> 0:05:22.620 drove it one time, like around the block and he 0:05:22.660 --> 0:05:25.220 was like, and it was, they were not fun cars 0:05:25.260 --> 0:05:26.940 to drive. They were very difficult to drive. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.520 Yeah. Yeah. They're all about being in as one with 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.880 the road. And if the road's not so great, then 0:05:33.500 --> 0:05:34.620 it's not, not very fun. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.789 Yeah. But I will say piggybacking on this story. Um, 0:05:38.380 --> 0:05:40.700 I've been watching the TV show Red Oaks. Have you 0:05:40.740 --> 0:05:41.170 ever seen it? 0:05:41.580 --> 0:05:43.010 I have never even heard of it. 0:05:43.779 --> 0:05:46.280 I hadn't either. It was an Amazon show that ran 0:05:46.300 --> 0:05:49.140 for three seasons about sort of like Caddyshacky. It's a 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:50.900 kid who works at a tennis club in the 80s. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.610 And a very, very 80s show. And the drug dealer 0:05:56.190 --> 0:06:00.690 drives this really sweet Porsche 928. Remember those? 0:06:00.930 --> 0:06:03.190 Is that the pointy one? It looks kind of like 0:06:03.250 --> 0:06:04.190 a Lotus Esprit. 0:06:04.790 --> 0:06:06.770 Yeah, well, it's, yeah, the risky business car. 0:06:07.220 --> 0:06:08.280 Okay. I never saw that movie. 0:06:09.430 --> 0:06:09.849 Oh, really? 0:06:10.140 --> 0:06:10.349 Yeah. 0:06:10.990 --> 0:06:12.910 Oh, dude, you need to see Risky Business. Great movie. 0:06:13.770 --> 0:06:16.630 I've got a list going. 0:06:17.190 --> 0:06:22.409 It's really good. But anyway, the 9-11 gets all the headlines, 0:06:22.470 --> 0:06:25.940 but that 9-28 was so sweet, and I was like, man, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.220 I wonder what you could get an 80s 9-28 for. 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.720 I bet it's not that much. Oh, yeah. And I 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:32.120 looked it up. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:33.100 How much? 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.620 Well, there was a range. Like, you can get one 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.670 that's in not great shape for, like, $ 12, 000 or up 0:06:39.690 --> 0:06:41.930 to $ 60, 000 for a cherry low mileage one. 0:06:42.210 --> 0:06:44.130 Right. I think that's pretty much the same with all 0:06:44.170 --> 0:06:47.630 vintage cars. I was looking at Pinto station wagons. 0:06:48.830 --> 0:06:50.240 And we're at different ends of the spectrum. 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:56.240 There's about four or five mint condition Pinto station wagons 0:06:56.620 --> 0:07:01.500 in existence that are really expensive. The rest are exactly 0:07:01.540 --> 0:07:02.560 what you would expect. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:03.779 That's funny. 0:07:04.420 --> 0:07:08.120 So we're talking bras today, obviously. We just wanted to 0:07:08.170 --> 0:07:11.290 get rid of anybody who might benefit from listening to this. 0:07:11.930 --> 0:07:13.630 So we talked about Porsches and stuff. 0:07:14.790 --> 0:07:18.370 Yeah. So the bras, the modern bra has only been 0:07:18.390 --> 0:07:21.370 around for about 150 years. And Dave makes a really 0:07:21.390 --> 0:07:24.050 good point of the fact that this thing that's only 0:07:24.090 --> 0:07:27.390 been around for 150 years has been one of the 0:07:27.410 --> 0:07:31.070 most complicated garments in the history of the world, I think. 0:07:31.670 --> 0:07:34.790 Yeah, not necessarily in its design or manufacture, but in 0:07:35.870 --> 0:07:39.290 Its relation to society as a whole, right? Yeah, totally. 0:07:40.550 --> 0:07:46.050 So you've got apparently a complete and utter lack of bras. 0:07:46.850 --> 0:07:50.000 But as women started to play sports a little more, 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.540 it was okay for them to wear bras, I think, 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.200 in the 20th century. And in fact, it was a 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.020 woman who invented the sports bra. Two women, actually, I 0:08:01.060 --> 0:08:01.440 think in 1977. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:01.900 Of course. 0:08:03.420 --> 0:08:06.720 They invented what was called the jog bra from two 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.180 jock straps that they put together. But, you know, it's 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.920 kind of a funny, cute little origin story. But they 0:08:13.980 --> 0:08:19.360 ended up like revolutionizing sports. Like women were allowed to 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.480 play sports. I think Title IX had been passed a 0:08:22.540 --> 0:08:26.320 couple of years before this. But the fact is you 0:08:26.620 --> 0:08:29.560 couldn't play sports because there wasn't much support out there 0:08:29.580 --> 0:08:33.470 for you. So to invent the sports bra... was tantamount 0:08:33.530 --> 0:08:38.010 to introducing women in practice into sports. It's pretty huge. 0:08:38.030 --> 0:08:40.730 Yeah, it is. And the history of the bra also 0:08:40.770 --> 0:08:48.280 incorporates fashion. It incorporates societal norms and how they change. 0:08:48.340 --> 0:08:52.420 So did the bra. How women changed over the years 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.380 and their own rights over their own comfort and their 0:08:56.460 --> 0:09:01.739 own fashion. Taking that back. And it really kind of 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.400 everything in between. The bra is a very complicated garment 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:06.200 and undergarment. 0:09:07.100 --> 0:09:10.929 It is. It is very complicated. What I was heartened 0:09:10.950 --> 0:09:13.069 to see, though, is that today, apparently, and for the 0:09:13.110 --> 0:09:19.230 last several years, it's been all about comfort and realness 0:09:19.850 --> 0:09:23.050 and finding like a bra that fits. And apparently, I 0:09:23.429 --> 0:09:26.400 was very surprised to find this, that that has not 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:31.210 been the norm, that especially in america at least bra 0:09:31.250 --> 0:09:35.570 makers have made like x number of sizes and if 0:09:35.830 --> 0:09:39.270 your breast didn't happen to fit that bra that was 0:09:39.370 --> 0:09:41.750 on you there's something wrong with your body because these 0:09:41.790 --> 0:09:44.350 are the standard sizes and this is what we're selling 0:09:44.850 --> 0:09:47.250 and so women have for a very long time had 0:09:47.550 --> 0:09:49.750 a lot of women have had bras that just do 0:09:49.809 --> 0:09:52.609 not fit them because they just can't find them in 0:09:52.670 --> 0:09:55.430 america and that's kind of led to this revolution in 0:09:55.470 --> 0:10:00.140 bra making and also bra sizing that has allowed for 0:10:00.179 --> 0:10:05.280 women to have much better, much more comfortable fits with bras. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.179 And I'm just glad for that. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.250 Yeah, me too. The average American woman supposedly owns six bras. 0:10:13.770 --> 0:10:18.290 There are officially, there are 20 different styles of bras 0:10:19.230 --> 0:10:22.640 that you can buy. And there's this great quote here. 0:10:22.980 --> 0:10:27.060 It's from a book called Uplift, colon, The Bra in 0:10:27.100 --> 0:10:32.140 America by Jane Farrell Beck and Colleen Gao. And this 0:10:32.220 --> 0:10:35.819 sort of really pinpoints what you're trying to do with 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.939 a bra and why it's so tough to get a 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.990 great fit and one that really works for everybody. Brasseries, oh, wait. 0:10:47.260 --> 0:10:50.180 Braziers must do more than fit a multitude of bodies. 0:10:50.220 --> 0:10:52.920 They must accommodate the same body as it changes through 0:10:52.940 --> 0:10:55.520 the monthly cycle and the life cycle. They must provide 0:10:55.540 --> 0:10:57.980 for movement of the torso and arms in many directions 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.430 without chafing or binding, without slipping out of position. And 0:11:01.470 --> 0:11:04.870 as if that were not enough, braziers must retain their 0:11:04.910 --> 0:11:09.250 own structure throughout multiple wearings and launderings, must not abrade 0:11:09.770 --> 0:11:13.370 in contact with clothing, must remain as a rule inconspicuous 0:11:13.429 --> 0:11:16.540 beneath the outer clothing while harmonizing with the desired silhouette, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.450 and must be priced to sell to many customers, it's 0:11:19.490 --> 0:11:21.500 no wonder that hundreds of attempts have been made to 0:11:21.530 --> 0:11:25.940 design the ideal breast supporter over the past 140 years. Yeah. 0:11:27.540 --> 0:11:28.040 It says it all. 0:11:28.300 --> 0:11:31.240 It really does. It is a lot more complicated than, say, 0:11:31.300 --> 0:11:32.020 boxer shorts. 0:11:33.740 --> 0:11:34.580 Yeah, those are easy. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.179 So there's also a lot of money to be made 0:11:38.250 --> 0:11:41.890 in it. I saw just the sports bra industry alone 0:11:41.950 --> 0:11:45.430 is worth like $ 7 billion a year. There's a lot 0:11:45.450 --> 0:11:48.390 of money made from bras. And so as a result, 0:11:48.730 --> 0:11:52.320 about 600 million of them are made every year. There's 0:11:52.340 --> 0:11:56.460 about 26,000 different bra patterns in existence. When you said 0:11:56.460 --> 0:12:00.900 20 different styles, that's like racerback or demicup, that like 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.280 large category of bra. As far as like different patterns 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.520 and types of bras, there's tens of thousands of them. 0:12:08.210 --> 0:12:08.650 Oh, sure. 0:12:09.030 --> 0:12:12.470 And each one has a lot of different moving parts. 0:12:13.010 --> 0:12:16.990 I saw 40 different parts from straps, clasps, underwire, all 0:12:17.050 --> 0:12:21.010 that stuff. And that it takes months and months of 0:12:22.010 --> 0:12:26.130 dozens of people working together to create a new bra. 0:12:26.490 --> 0:12:28.609 It's not just like a new thing. So there's a 0:12:28.830 --> 0:12:32.690 lot of thought and time and effort and money going 0:12:32.750 --> 0:12:35.890 into bra production. And then from what I've seen, there's 0:12:36.330 --> 0:12:40.070 virtually an equal amount of time and effort and thought 0:12:40.190 --> 0:12:43.730 going into bra purchasing too. From what I'm seeing, it's 0:12:43.750 --> 0:12:46.689 like not the easiest thing in the world to buy 0:12:46.710 --> 0:12:49.370 a bra if you want the bra to be one 0:12:49.570 --> 0:12:51.030 that is your new favorite. 0:12:52.130 --> 0:12:55.250 Yeah. Did you have any flashbacks of young Josh while 0:12:55.270 --> 0:12:58.390 you were researching this? Like Sears catalog type of stuff? 0:12:58.490 --> 0:13:03.329 Sure. Practicing unhooking bras by wearing them myself. 0:13:04.270 --> 0:13:07.470 Or simply, you know, the 80s was a generally more 0:13:08.090 --> 0:13:11.050 naive moment in time before the internet. Yeah. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:12.160 Oh, yeah. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.880 Seeing a lady in a bra leaning against a tree 0:13:14.940 --> 0:13:16.260 was a pretty big deal. 0:13:16.570 --> 0:13:17.570 Yes, it really was. 0:13:17.590 --> 0:13:20.290 In 1983. Yeah. Should we take a break and then 0:13:20.450 --> 0:13:21.229 dive into the history? 0:13:21.910 --> 0:13:25.189 Yeah, let's. I think it's a good idea. Okay. 0:13:25.250 --> 0:13:27.850 We'll be right back with the history of the Brasserie 0:13:27.910 --> 0:13:34.100 right after this. We'll be right back. 0:13:45.510 --> 0:13:48.990 Well now when you're on the road driving in your 0:13:49.030 --> 0:13:52.510 truck why not learn a thing or two from josh 0:13:52.650 --> 0:13:55.070 and chuck it's stuff you should. 0:13:54.809 --> 0:14:03.079 Know all right okay so as everybody knows there was 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:08.500 a battle between auto von titzling and philippe brazier over 0:14:08.580 --> 0:14:13.229 who invented the bra and as um The great Bette 0:14:13.270 --> 0:14:14.990 Midler instructed all of us. 0:14:15.030 --> 0:14:19.350 We know who won that battle because you wear a brassiere, 0:14:19.990 --> 0:14:20.770 not a tisling. 0:14:21.930 --> 0:14:22.910 Was that a Bette Midler bit? 0:14:23.390 --> 0:14:24.170 It was from Beaches. 0:14:25.310 --> 0:14:27.650 Oh, I saw that in the 80s when it came 0:14:27.710 --> 0:14:28.590 out and not since then. 0:14:29.710 --> 0:14:31.690 I don't think I've seen it since the 80s either, 0:14:31.730 --> 0:14:35.390 but I guess that little part really stuck with me, yeah. 0:14:36.390 --> 0:14:39.330 So the real first patent for the bra was filed 0:14:39.370 --> 0:14:39.470 in 1863. 0:14:39.450 --> 0:14:39.570 Mm-hmm. 0:14:42.820 --> 0:14:45.640 Brazier, the word, it wasn't coined until the 20th century. 0:14:46.380 --> 0:14:50.040 But that wasn't the first bra. Dave sent us even 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.200 a photo with this research, which is pretty great, of 0:14:53.450 --> 0:14:57.170 a Sicilian mosaic called Bikini Girls. And if you look 0:14:57.230 --> 0:14:59.630 up Bikini Girls, well, you're going to get a lot 0:14:59.650 --> 0:15:03.230 of results. But if you look up Sicilian mosaic Bikini Girls, 0:15:03.450 --> 0:15:06.370 you will see a mosaic from about 400 to 300 0:15:06.370 --> 0:15:13.740 BCE that shows these Young athletic women wearing bikinis, clearly 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.760 wearing what looks like a bra or bikini top. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.240 It's basically exactly what pro beach volleyball players wear today. Like, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.270 no joke. It looks exactly like it. 0:15:24.390 --> 0:15:26.010 But strapless. Right. 0:15:26.050 --> 0:15:28.110 Yeah, I think a lot of them wear strapless stuff, too. 0:15:28.350 --> 0:15:31.410 And also very short shorts. Like, even with the butterfly cut, 0:15:31.430 --> 0:15:34.190 if you look closely, they have, like, that cut on 0:15:34.230 --> 0:15:37.660 the side. I mean, like, they look exactly like pro 0:15:37.700 --> 0:15:43.780 volleyball players. And this is... 2,400 years ago. So it 0:15:43.820 --> 0:15:49.470 seems like they were wearing what's called an epidesmy or strophium, 0:15:49.900 --> 0:15:52.250 depending on whether you speak the Greek or the Latin. 0:15:52.990 --> 0:15:56.830 But it's basically like a cloth wrapped around and then 0:15:56.910 --> 0:16:00.869 knotted in front to provide support during athletics. 0:16:01.610 --> 0:16:05.940 That's right. Boom. So medieval times come along. There were 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.420 European physicians who were writing about something called breast bags. 0:16:11.730 --> 0:16:14.350 And there was a medical text from 1300, the royal 0:16:14.390 --> 0:16:20.630 surgeon in France, Henri de Mondeville, said, some women insert 0:16:20.710 --> 0:16:24.950 two bags in their dresses, adjusted to the breasts fitting tight, 0:16:25.550 --> 0:16:29.410 and they put them into them every morning and fasten 0:16:29.430 --> 0:16:31.560 them when possible with a matching band. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:32.980 Not a marching band. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.740 No, that's sort of a bra, a built-in bra. 0:16:37.020 --> 0:16:38.600 Sure, or a breast bag. 0:16:38.620 --> 0:16:41.420 Right, just don't say that ever again. 0:16:43.290 --> 0:16:47.710 Okay, agreed. So that's from 1300, right? And then you 0:16:47.730 --> 0:16:50.990 would think, okay, well, things kind of started hard and 0:16:51.010 --> 0:16:54.770 fast from that point on. And as far as history 0:16:54.790 --> 0:17:02.550 is concerned, no. Like about 100 years later, all bra 0:17:02.590 --> 0:17:06.510 technology was abandoned in favor of the corset. And that's 0:17:06.530 --> 0:17:10.050 what we thought for a very long time until there 0:17:10.070 --> 0:17:12.830 was a discovery in 2008, but it wasn't publicized until 0:17:12.869 --> 0:17:16.750 I think 2012 or 15, that an archaeologist from the 0:17:16.830 --> 0:17:22.669 University of Innsbruck, Beatrix Newts, I guarantee that's how her 0:17:22.710 --> 0:17:26.960 name is spelled or said. She was excavating an Austrian castle, 0:17:27.020 --> 0:17:32.590 Langberg Castle, and she found four medieval bras that were 0:17:32.590 --> 0:17:35.429 600 to 700 years old, made of linen. Do you 0:17:35.450 --> 0:17:38.090 remember when this was news, this made the rounds? 0:17:38.690 --> 0:17:38.950 I do. 0:17:40.010 --> 0:17:42.830 When you looked at this garment, you're like, that is 0:17:42.869 --> 0:17:46.100 a bra. It doesn't matter what context you have. It 0:17:46.140 --> 0:17:48.060 doesn't matter. You just show somebody a picture of this 0:17:48.420 --> 0:17:51.119 without any prep or anything like that and say, what 0:17:51.180 --> 0:17:53.480 is this? They would say, well, that's a bra. You'd say, 0:17:53.500 --> 0:17:56.510 that's right. It's a 700-year-old bra that we didn't know existed. 0:17:56.900 --> 0:17:58.899 Like that whole design, we had no idea that it 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:03.159 existed because we thought everything had gone basically from, I'm 0:18:03.180 --> 0:18:07.080 sorry to say this one more time, breast bags to corsets. 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.320 And that there was no transition. But in fact, there 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.630 was a transition to the modern bra that was abandoned 0:18:13.670 --> 0:18:17.010 in favor of the corset. Quite unfortunately, really. 0:18:17.869 --> 0:18:20.409 Yeah, and they even found a picture there of a 0:18:20.430 --> 0:18:22.730 13-year-old boy with a bra on his head saying he 0:18:22.770 --> 0:18:23.390 was Mickey Mouse. 0:18:24.070 --> 0:18:24.530 That's right. 0:18:25.010 --> 0:18:29.129 So that was proof. So we covered the corset, like 0:18:29.150 --> 0:18:30.969 you said, in our full-length episode, so you can go 0:18:31.010 --> 0:18:34.690 listen to that. But very briefly, corset, the word means 0:18:35.570 --> 0:18:39.430 corpus in Latin for body. And women would wear these 0:18:39.590 --> 0:18:43.919 corsets that were– they had wood or bone. Later on, 0:18:43.950 --> 0:18:48.910 that had steel. And it would basically shape their torso. 0:18:49.010 --> 0:18:51.389 It would cinch that waist in, and it would flatten 0:18:51.410 --> 0:18:54.490 their breast. And they were very restrictive. They were very painful. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.340 And they did actual real damage to their bodies at times. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.640 Oh, yeah. Like they had trouble digesting, had trouble breathing. 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.790 You remember you could train your waist to stay that small. 0:19:06.850 --> 0:19:08.750 We talked a lot about this in the corset episode. 0:19:09.109 --> 0:19:13.050 But the big problem with corsets aside from all that 0:19:13.550 --> 0:19:16.210 is that they supported the breasts from the bottom up. 0:19:16.790 --> 0:19:17.030 Yes. 0:19:17.170 --> 0:19:20.360 And the thing that really differentiated bras from everything else 0:19:20.430 --> 0:19:23.100 up to that point was that they went the other way. 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.379 They harnessed the power of the shoulder to hold the 0:19:27.420 --> 0:19:31.640 breasts up from beneath. Not push them up, but hold them, 0:19:31.700 --> 0:19:36.409 suspend them, almost like a pair of breast bags hanging 0:19:36.490 --> 0:19:38.230 down over your shoulder. 0:19:40.090 --> 0:19:40.790 There you go again. 0:19:41.330 --> 0:19:43.990 I can't help myself now. I've been told not to 0:19:44.030 --> 0:19:44.670 do something. 0:19:46.790 --> 0:19:48.830 These are the great episodes where I just sometimes like 0:19:48.850 --> 0:19:52.760 to sit back and... watch you dig into a big 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:53.340 giant hole. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.940 Turn into a 13-year-old boy with a Sears catalog. 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.670 So this was going on. The corsets were terrible. Women 0:20:00.710 --> 0:20:03.970 hated them. And by the mid-19th century, like you said, 0:20:04.010 --> 0:20:05.810 they said, you've got these strong shoulders. Why don't we 0:20:05.890 --> 0:20:11.680 use those? Like an ox. That's right. And the first 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.400 modern bra patent was filed in 1863 by a guy 0:20:14.580 --> 0:20:18.770 named Lumen Chapman. And he was from– or he was 0:20:18.810 --> 0:20:21.550 living at least in Camden, New Jersey. And he had 0:20:21.590 --> 0:20:26.330 this very first over-the-shoulder design. And it was tightened in 0:20:26.369 --> 0:20:28.210 the back like a corset, but it was softer. It 0:20:28.230 --> 0:20:30.950 was made of stretchy fabric. And it had these cups. 0:20:31.619 --> 0:20:35.240 They were called breast puffs in the patent for the 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:36.940 extra support and comfort, I think. 0:20:37.180 --> 0:20:40.369 That is radically– better than breast bags. 0:20:41.310 --> 0:20:41.950 You said it again. 0:20:42.950 --> 0:20:46.610 So Lumen Chapman, strangely enough, his design did not take off, 0:20:47.310 --> 0:20:50.540 although he does have the first patent. But a woman 0:20:50.580 --> 0:20:56.419 named Hermione Cadol, great name, she created something that was 0:20:56.500 --> 0:20:59.020 basically like a corset, but it was a corset cut 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.550 in two. And the top half very strongly resembled a 0:21:02.830 --> 0:21:06.629 modern bra. And she called it the Le Bien-être or 0:21:06.690 --> 0:21:10.820 Well-Being And her stuff still didn't quite take off. I 0:21:10.859 --> 0:21:14.619 think because she was married to the corset still, the 0:21:14.660 --> 0:21:17.950 general corset design, which made sense because at the time, 0:21:17.970 --> 0:21:21.940 up until the early 20th century. If you didn't wear 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:26.300 a corset, you were basically advertising that you had loose morals. 0:21:26.700 --> 0:21:28.820 So the corset was just it. Whether you hated corsets 0:21:28.859 --> 0:21:31.980 with all of your might, and a lot of women did, 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.199 you still had to wear them just to be socially acceptable. 0:21:35.770 --> 0:21:39.530 So it would take, as far as legend goes, a 0:21:39.890 --> 0:21:46.230 very free-spirited, very wealthy socialite named Mary Phelps Jacobs to 0:21:46.250 --> 0:21:49.550 basically say, nuts to that. I'm tired of these corsets. 0:21:50.700 --> 0:21:55.180 those whalebone stays are protruding through this kind of sheer 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.389 dress that I want to wear to this dance. Let 0:21:57.410 --> 0:22:00.710 me try something else. And she apparently instructed one of 0:22:00.750 --> 0:22:03.590 her maids, because again, she was a wealthy socialite, to 0:22:04.750 --> 0:22:08.449 make what we would consider the first modern bra out 0:22:08.490 --> 0:22:10.350 of some silk handkerchiefs and ribbon. 0:22:11.450 --> 0:22:14.689 Yeah, she was only 19. We should point out she 0:22:14.730 --> 0:22:16.710 moved to Paris later on and changed her name to, 0:22:16.730 --> 0:22:19.130 is it Caressa Crosby? 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:20.120 I think so. 0:22:20.700 --> 0:22:22.570 Or Caress. I'm not sure if you pronounce that last E. 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:23.640