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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's Josh. And yeah, we did an episode

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Speaker 1: on bras. What of it? Yeah, we're two dudes. But

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Speaker 1: we're carrying on a long-standing tradition, we found out. Because

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Speaker 1: it turns out that just about every bra in history,

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Speaker 1: and then go back pretty far, was invented by a man.

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Speaker 1: And that includes the guy who filed the patent for

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Speaker 1: the first modern bra. This also explains why, until very recently,

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Speaker 1: bras were profoundly uncomfortable and usually had some sort of

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Speaker 1: lace or something. And maybe were see-through. That's neither here

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Speaker 1: nor there, though, because in this episode, we cover everything

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Speaker 1: there is to know about bras, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: we came out of it as better people. I'll leave

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Speaker 1: it to you to decide how we did. Either way,

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Speaker 1: enjoy this episode from 2020 on bras. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant. And it's just us again.

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Speaker 2: It's just us.

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Speaker 1: We've lost Jerry.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the studio like I was on the last one,

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Speaker 2: but it's still a ghost studio. There's no one here. Sure.

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Speaker 1: Except for Tommy Chong and the radio, or the record player, right?

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Good. We'll just leave it at that. We said that

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Speaker 1: we have somebody poised to, like, scratch the needle off

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Speaker 1: the record several episodes ago. Yeah, I remember that. And

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Speaker 1: that it was Tommy Chong whose job it was to

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Speaker 1: do that now.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Good callback.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Should we talk bras? Yeah, we're talking bras, man,

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Speaker 1: which I appreciate it when we do stuff like this,

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Speaker 1: episodes like this, because we have to try harder because

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Speaker 1: we're men, you know? Sure.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: The usual.

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Speaker 2: It's the only time we have to try harder in life.

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Speaker 1: Sadly, that is kind of true. But we haven't shied

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Speaker 1: away from topics that have very little to do with us,

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Speaker 1: like corsets. We did one on how corsets work. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that? We totally did. A whole episode on corsets.

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Speaker 2: Jeez.

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Speaker 1: We did one on female puberty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Foot binding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We've done a lot of them. So this is just—

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Speaker 1: One in the same. A three is a lot when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. And we did mention doing

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Speaker 2: one on menstruation not too long ago. And we got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of supportive emails saying like, yes, guys, please,

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Speaker 2: please do that. Like, there's no reason why you shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: I've been menstruating for 50 years and I still don't

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Speaker 1: understand it. Please explain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So actually, we have not gotten that email, although we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know if we had, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because our email server's down. Sorry if you've been bounced, everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're working on it. Yep. So we're talking bras,

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Speaker 1: which is short for brassiere, which doesn't have a definite

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Speaker 1: origin as far as we know. We think that it

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Speaker 1: came about in the 20th century, early 20th century. I

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Speaker 1: think it first appeared in print in 1907 or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And in French, it means one of two things.

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Speaker 1: It means either arm covering, which is, I think, derived

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Speaker 1: from medieval armor, French medieval armor. Don't know. And then

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Speaker 1: the other thing I saw was a child's vest, which

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Speaker 1: that to me is just lovely. If that's what they're

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Speaker 1: trying to say with the bra, that it's like a

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Speaker 1: child-sized vest that you wear over your breasts, I love

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Speaker 1: that idea.

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Speaker 2: You want to know something funny? Yes. For the first

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Speaker 2: 10 minutes researching this, this was put together by our

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Speaker 2: pal Dave Ruse. I kept thinking, why is Ruse, why

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Speaker 2: does he keep talking about brasseries? Why does he keep

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Speaker 2: talking about quaint little French restaurants?

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Speaker 1: That's funny.

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Speaker 2: It's very close. It looks like brassiere.

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Speaker 1: It does. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. I think

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Speaker 1: if that I was just a little further toward the end,

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Speaker 1: we would be talking about casual French restaurants. The TGI

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Speaker 1: Fridays of France. Well, that's better than my experience. For

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Speaker 1: the first 30 minutes, I was researching nothing but car bras.

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Speaker 2: Oh, God. The LeBras. Remember those? No.

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Speaker 1: I remember the car.

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Speaker 2: I think there was a LeBras, which was one of

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Speaker 2: the big popular models at the time for like Porsches

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that at all.

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Speaker 2: You know, my dad very stupidly bought a Porsche when

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Speaker 2: I was in high school.

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Speaker 1: Oh, no, with that food truck money?

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Speaker 2: With that big public school teacher money. He went out

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Speaker 2: and bought a Porsche and surprised my mom and the

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Speaker 2: rest of the family with a sweet Porsche 911.

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Speaker 1: Like a new one?

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Speaker 2: That no one was allowed to, like, breathe on. No,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't new.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: But he very quickly went out, and this is very

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Speaker 2: my dad, And like the next week he had like

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Speaker 2: the Porsche eyes odd, the Porsche glasses, the Porsche hat. And, uh,

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Speaker 2: we didn't have that for very long. I think I

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Speaker 2: drove it one time, like around the block and he

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Speaker 2: was like, and it was, they were not fun cars

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Speaker 2: to drive. They were very difficult to drive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. They're all about being in as one with

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Speaker 1: the road. And if the road's not so great, then

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Speaker 1: it's not, not very fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But I will say piggybacking on this story. Um,

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Speaker 2: I've been watching the TV show Red Oaks. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever seen it?

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Speaker 1: I have never even heard of it.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't either. It was an Amazon show that ran

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Speaker 2: for three seasons about sort of like Caddyshacky. It's a

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Speaker 2: kid who works at a tennis club in the 80s.

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Speaker 2: And a very, very 80s show. And the drug dealer

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Speaker 2: drives this really sweet Porsche 928. Remember those?

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Speaker 1: Is that the pointy one? It looks kind of like

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Speaker 1: a Lotus Esprit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's, yeah, the risky business car.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I never saw that movie.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh, dude, you need to see Risky Business. Great movie.

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Speaker 1: I've got a list going.

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Speaker 2: It's really good. But anyway, the 9-11 gets all the headlines,

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Speaker 2: but that 9-28 was so sweet, and I was like, man,

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Speaker 2: I wonder what you could get an 80s 9-28 for.

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Speaker 2: I bet it's not that much. Oh, yeah. And I

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Speaker 2: looked it up.

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Speaker 1: How much?

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Speaker 2: Well, there was a range. Like, you can get one

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Speaker 2: that's in not great shape for, like, $ 12, 000 or up

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Speaker 2: to $ 60, 000 for a cherry low mileage one.

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Speaker 1: Right. I think that's pretty much the same with all

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Speaker 1: vintage cars. I was looking at Pinto station wagons.

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Speaker 2: And we're at different ends of the spectrum.

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Speaker 1: There's about four or five mint condition Pinto station wagons

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Speaker 1: in existence that are really expensive. The rest are exactly

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Speaker 1: what you would expect.

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Speaker 2: That's funny.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking bras today, obviously. We just wanted to

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Speaker 1: get rid of anybody who might benefit from listening to this.

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Speaker 1: So we talked about Porsches and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the bras, the modern bra has only been

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Speaker 2: around for about 150 years. And Dave makes a really

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Speaker 2: good point of the fact that this thing that's only

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Speaker 2: been around for 150 years has been one of the

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Speaker 2: most complicated garments in the history of the world, I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not necessarily in its design or manufacture, but in

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Speaker 1: Its relation to society as a whole, right? Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: So you've got apparently a complete and utter lack of bras.

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Speaker 1: But as women started to play sports a little more,

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Speaker 1: it was okay for them to wear bras, I think,

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Speaker 1: in the 20th century. And in fact, it was a

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Speaker 1: woman who invented the sports bra. Two women, actually, I

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Speaker 1: think in 1977.

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Speaker 2: Of course.

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Speaker 1: They invented what was called the jog bra from two

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Speaker 1: jock straps that they put together. But, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a funny, cute little origin story. But they

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Speaker 1: ended up like revolutionizing sports. Like women were allowed to

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Speaker 1: play sports. I think Title IX had been passed a

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Speaker 1: couple of years before this. But the fact is you

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Speaker 1: couldn't play sports because there wasn't much support out there

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Speaker 1: for you. So to invent the sports bra... was tantamount

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Speaker 1: to introducing women in practice into sports. It's pretty huge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And the history of the bra also

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Speaker 2: incorporates fashion. It incorporates societal norms and how they change.

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Speaker 2: So did the bra. How women changed over the years

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Speaker 2: and their own rights over their own comfort and their

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Speaker 2: own fashion. Taking that back. And it really kind of

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Speaker 2: everything in between. The bra is a very complicated garment

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Speaker 2: and undergarment.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is very complicated. What I was heartened

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Speaker 1: to see, though, is that today, apparently, and for the

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Speaker 1: last several years, it's been all about comfort and realness

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Speaker 1: and finding like a bra that fits. And apparently, I

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Speaker 1: was very surprised to find this, that that has not

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Speaker 1: been the norm, that especially in america at least bra

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Speaker 1: makers have made like x number of sizes and if

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Speaker 1: your breast didn't happen to fit that bra that was

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Speaker 1: on you there's something wrong with your body because these

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Speaker 1: are the standard sizes and this is what we're selling

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Speaker 1: and so women have for a very long time had

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Speaker 1: a lot of women have had bras that just do

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Speaker 1: not fit them because they just can't find them in

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Speaker 1: america and that's kind of led to this revolution in

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Speaker 1: bra making and also bra sizing that has allowed for

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Speaker 1: women to have much better, much more comfortable fits with bras.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just glad for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. The average American woman supposedly owns six bras.

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Speaker 2: There are officially, there are 20 different styles of bras

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Speaker 2: that you can buy. And there's this great quote here.

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Speaker 2: It's from a book called Uplift, colon, The Bra in

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Speaker 2: America by Jane Farrell Beck and Colleen Gao. And this

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Speaker 2: sort of really pinpoints what you're trying to do with

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Speaker 2: a bra and why it's so tough to get a

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Speaker 2: great fit and one that really works for everybody. Brasseries, oh, wait.

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Speaker 2: Braziers must do more than fit a multitude of bodies.

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Speaker 2: They must accommodate the same body as it changes through

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Speaker 2: the monthly cycle and the life cycle. They must provide

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Speaker 2: for movement of the torso and arms in many directions

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Speaker 2: without chafing or binding, without slipping out of position. And

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Speaker 2: as if that were not enough, braziers must retain their

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Speaker 2: own structure throughout multiple wearings and launderings, must not abrade

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Speaker 2: in contact with clothing, must remain as a rule inconspicuous

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Speaker 2: beneath the outer clothing while harmonizing with the desired silhouette,

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Speaker 2: and must be priced to sell to many customers, it's

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Speaker 2: no wonder that hundreds of attempts have been made to

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Speaker 2: design the ideal breast supporter over the past 140 years. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It says it all.

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Speaker 1: It really does. It is a lot more complicated than, say,

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Speaker 1: boxer shorts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those are easy.

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Speaker 1: So there's also a lot of money to be made

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Speaker 1: in it. I saw just the sports bra industry alone

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Speaker 1: is worth like $ 7 billion a year. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of money made from bras. And so as a result,

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Speaker 1: about 600 million of them are made every year. There's

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Speaker 1: about 26,000 different bra patterns in existence. When you said

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Speaker 1: 20 different styles, that's like racerback or demicup, that like

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Speaker 1: large category of bra. As far as like different patterns

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Speaker 1: and types of bras, there's tens of thousands of them.

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Speaker 2: Oh, sure.

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Speaker 1: And each one has a lot of different moving parts.

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Speaker 1: I saw 40 different parts from straps, clasps, underwire, all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. And that it takes months and months of

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Speaker 1: dozens of people working together to create a new bra.

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Speaker 1: It's not just like a new thing. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of thought and time and effort and money going

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Speaker 1: into bra production. And then from what I've seen, there's

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Speaker 1: virtually an equal amount of time and effort and thought

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Speaker 1: going into bra purchasing too. From what I'm seeing, it's

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Speaker 1: like not the easiest thing in the world to buy

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Speaker 1: a bra if you want the bra to be one

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Speaker 1: that is your new favorite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you have any flashbacks of young Josh while

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Speaker 2: you were researching this? Like Sears catalog type of stuff?

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Speaker 1: Sure. Practicing unhooking bras by wearing them myself.

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Speaker 2: Or simply, you know, the 80s was a generally more

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Speaker 2: naive moment in time before the internet. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Seeing a lady in a bra leaning against a tree

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Speaker 2: was a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it really was.

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Speaker 2: In 1983. Yeah. Should we take a break and then

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Speaker 2: dive into the history?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's. I think it's a good idea. Okay.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back with the history of the Brasserie

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Speaker 2: right after this. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 3: Well now when you're on the road driving in your

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Speaker 3: truck why not learn a thing or two from josh

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Speaker 3: and chuck it's stuff you should.

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Speaker 4: Know all right okay so as everybody knows there was

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Speaker 4: a battle between auto von titzling and philippe brazier over

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Speaker 4: who invented the bra and as um The great Bette

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Speaker 4: Midler instructed all of us.

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Speaker 1: We know who won that battle because you wear a brassiere,

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Speaker 1: not a tisling.

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Speaker 2: Was that a Bette Midler bit?

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Speaker 1: It was from Beaches.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I saw that in the 80s when it came

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Speaker 2: out and not since then.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen it since the 80s either,

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Speaker 1: but I guess that little part really stuck with me, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the real first patent for the bra was filed

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Speaker 2: in 1863.

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Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Brazier, the word, it wasn't coined until the 20th century.

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Speaker 2: But that wasn't the first bra. Dave sent us even

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Speaker 2: a photo with this research, which is pretty great, of

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Speaker 2: a Sicilian mosaic called Bikini Girls. And if you look

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Speaker 2: up Bikini Girls, well, you're going to get a lot

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Speaker 2: of results. But if you look up Sicilian mosaic Bikini Girls,

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Speaker 2: you will see a mosaic from about 400 to 300

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Speaker 2: BCE that shows these Young athletic women wearing bikinis, clearly

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Speaker 2: wearing what looks like a bra or bikini top.

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Speaker 1: It's basically exactly what pro beach volleyball players wear today. Like,

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Speaker 1: no joke. It looks exactly like it.

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Speaker 2: But strapless. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of them wear strapless stuff, too.

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Speaker 1: And also very short shorts. Like, even with the butterfly cut,

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Speaker 1: if you look closely, they have, like, that cut on

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Speaker 1: the side. I mean, like, they look exactly like pro

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Speaker 1: volleyball players. And this is... 2,400 years ago. So it

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Speaker 1: seems like they were wearing what's called an epidesmy or strophium,

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Speaker 1: depending on whether you speak the Greek or the Latin.

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Speaker 1: But it's basically like a cloth wrapped around and then

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Speaker 1: knotted in front to provide support during athletics.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Boom. So medieval times come along. There were

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Speaker 2: European physicians who were writing about something called breast bags.

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Speaker 2: And there was a medical text from 1300, the royal

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Speaker 2: surgeon in France, Henri de Mondeville, said, some women insert

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Speaker 2: two bags in their dresses, adjusted to the breasts fitting tight,

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Speaker 2: and they put them into them every morning and fasten

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Speaker 2: them when possible with a matching band.

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Speaker 1: Not a marching band.

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Speaker 2: No, that's sort of a bra, a built-in bra.

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Speaker 1: Sure, or a breast bag.

300
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Speaker 2: Right, just don't say that ever again.

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Speaker 1: Okay, agreed. So that's from 1300, right? And then you

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Speaker 1: would think, okay, well, things kind of started hard and

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Speaker 1: fast from that point on. And as far as history

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Speaker 1: is concerned, no. Like about 100 years later, all bra

305
00:17:02,590 --> 00:17:06,510
Speaker 1: technology was abandoned in favor of the corset. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we thought for a very long time until there

307
00:17:10,070 --> 00:17:12,830
Speaker 1: was a discovery in 2008, but it wasn't publicized until

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Speaker 1: I think 2012 or 15, that an archaeologist from the

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00:17:16,830 --> 00:17:22,669
Speaker 1: University of Innsbruck, Beatrix Newts, I guarantee that's how her

310
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 1: name is spelled or said. She was excavating an Austrian castle,

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Speaker 1: Langberg Castle, and she found four medieval bras that were

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00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:35,429
Speaker 1: 600 to 700 years old, made of linen. Do you

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00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:38,090
Speaker 1: remember when this was news, this made the rounds?

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: When you looked at this garment, you're like, that is

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00:17:42,869 --> 00:17:46,100
Speaker 1: a bra. It doesn't matter what context you have. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You just show somebody a picture of this

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Speaker 1: without any prep or anything like that and say, what

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Speaker 1: is this? They would say, well, that's a bra. You'd say,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It's a 700-year-old bra that we didn't know existed.

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Speaker 1: Like that whole design, we had no idea that it

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Speaker 1: existed because we thought everything had gone basically from, I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry to say this one more time, breast bags to corsets.

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Speaker 1: And that there was no transition. But in fact, there

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Speaker 1: was a transition to the modern bra that was abandoned

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Speaker 1: in favor of the corset. Quite unfortunately, really.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they even found a picture there of a

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Speaker 2: 13-year-old boy with a bra on his head saying he

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Speaker 2: was Mickey Mouse.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So that was proof. So we covered the corset, like

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Speaker 2: you said, in our full-length episode, so you can go

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00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:34,690
Speaker 2: listen to that. But very briefly, corset, the word means

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Speaker 2: corpus in Latin for body. And women would wear these

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00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 2: corsets that were– they had wood or bone. Later on,

336
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Speaker 2: that had steel. And it would basically shape their torso.

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Speaker 2: It would cinch that waist in, and it would flatten

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Speaker 2: their breast. And they were very restrictive. They were very painful.

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Speaker 2: And they did actual real damage to their bodies at times.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Like they had trouble digesting, had trouble breathing.

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Speaker 1: You remember you could train your waist to stay that small.

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Speaker 1: We talked a lot about this in the corset episode.

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Speaker 1: But the big problem with corsets aside from all that

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Speaker 1: is that they supported the breasts from the bottom up.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that really differentiated bras from everything else

347
00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:23,100
Speaker 1: up to that point was that they went the other way.

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Speaker 1: They harnessed the power of the shoulder to hold the

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Speaker 1: breasts up from beneath. Not push them up, but hold them,

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Speaker 1: suspend them, almost like a pair of breast bags hanging

351
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Speaker 1: down over your shoulder.

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Speaker 2: There you go again.

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Speaker 1: I can't help myself now. I've been told not to

354
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Speaker 1: do something.

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Speaker 2: These are the great episodes where I just sometimes like

356
00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: to sit back and... watch you dig into a big

357
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:53,340
Speaker 2: giant hole.

358
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Speaker 1: Turn into a 13-year-old boy with a Sears catalog.

359
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Speaker 2: So this was going on. The corsets were terrible. Women

360
00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:03,970
Speaker 2: hated them. And by the mid-19th century, like you said,

361
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:05,810
Speaker 2: they said, you've got these strong shoulders. Why don't we

362
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 2: use those? Like an ox. That's right. And the first

363
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: modern bra patent was filed in 1863 by a guy

364
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Speaker 2: named Lumen Chapman. And he was from– or he was

365
00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:21,550
Speaker 2: living at least in Camden, New Jersey. And he had

366
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:26,330
Speaker 2: this very first over-the-shoulder design. And it was tightened in

367
00:20:26,369 --> 00:20:28,210
Speaker 2: the back like a corset, but it was softer. It

368
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:30,950
Speaker 2: was made of stretchy fabric. And it had these cups.

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Speaker 2: They were called breast puffs in the patent for the

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Speaker 2: extra support and comfort, I think.

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Speaker 1: That is radically– better than breast bags.

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Speaker 2: You said it again.

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Speaker 1: So Lumen Chapman, strangely enough, his design did not take off,

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Speaker 1: although he does have the first patent. But a woman

375
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Speaker 1: named Hermione Cadol, great name, she created something that was

376
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Speaker 1: basically like a corset, but it was a corset cut

377
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,550
Speaker 1: in two. And the top half very strongly resembled a

378
00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:06,629
Speaker 1: modern bra. And she called it the Le Bien-être or

379
00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:10,820
Speaker 1: Well-Being And her stuff still didn't quite take off. I

380
00:21:10,859 --> 00:21:14,619
Speaker 1: think because she was married to the corset still, the

381
00:21:14,660 --> 00:21:17,950
Speaker 1: general corset design, which made sense because at the time,

382
00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:21,940
Speaker 1: up until the early 20th century. If you didn't wear

383
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Speaker 1: a corset, you were basically advertising that you had loose morals.

384
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:28,820
Speaker 1: So the corset was just it. Whether you hated corsets

385
00:21:28,859 --> 00:21:31,980
Speaker 1: with all of your might, and a lot of women did,

386
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,199
Speaker 1: you still had to wear them just to be socially acceptable.

387
00:21:35,770 --> 00:21:39,530
Speaker 1: So it would take, as far as legend goes, a

388
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:46,230
Speaker 1: very free-spirited, very wealthy socialite named Mary Phelps Jacobs to

389
00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:49,550
Speaker 1: basically say, nuts to that. I'm tired of these corsets.

390
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:55,180
Speaker 1: those whalebone stays are protruding through this kind of sheer

391
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,389
Speaker 1: dress that I want to wear to this dance. Let

392
00:21:57,410 --> 00:22:00,710
Speaker 1: me try something else. And she apparently instructed one of

393
00:22:00,750 --> 00:22:03,590
Speaker 1: her maids, because again, she was a wealthy socialite, to

394
00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:08,449
Speaker 1: make what we would consider the first modern bra out

395
00:22:08,490 --> 00:22:10,350
Speaker 1: of some silk handkerchiefs and ribbon.

396
00:22:11,450 --> 00:22:14,689
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was only 19. We should point out she

397
00:22:14,730 --> 00:22:16,710
Speaker 2: moved to Paris later on and changed her name to,

398
00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:19,130
Speaker 2: is it Caressa Crosby?

399
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: I think so.

400
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:22,570
Speaker 2: Or Caress. I'm not sure if you pronounce that last E.

401
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm not sure either.

402
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,300
Speaker 2: But that was her final name. So Crosby had this

403
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: idea when she was 19, and it was before an

404
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: event that she was going to, a debutante ball. And

405
00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:38,590
Speaker 2: she called it the Backless Brassiere. And people at the

406
00:22:38,609 --> 00:22:42,210
Speaker 2: party loved it. I imagine women especially loved it. And

407
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:45,429
Speaker 2: she got a patent for this thing in 1914. And

408
00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:49,690
Speaker 2: very unwisely sold the idea for a mere $ 1, 500 to

409
00:22:50,030 --> 00:22:51,530
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Corset Company.

410
00:22:52,050 --> 00:22:54,490
Speaker 1: Yeah, who turned around in the next 30 years, made

411
00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:57,050
Speaker 1: 10,000 times that amount from that patent.

412
00:22:57,450 --> 00:22:57,690
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

413
00:22:58,109 --> 00:23:03,379
Speaker 1: So it's about $ 38, 000 that she was paid today for

414
00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: the patent, and they made about $ 225 million in today's

415
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: money off of it.

416
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:08,940
Speaker 2: But she was rich anyway, right?

417
00:23:09,060 --> 00:23:10,820
Speaker 1: In bed. Yeah, she was rich anyway. And she was

418
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: a super interesting person from what I saw. She basically

419
00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: any famous author today that was writing in the 20s,

420
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:23,110
Speaker 1: she was like real good friends with. And she herself wrote, too.

421
00:23:23,150 --> 00:23:25,470
Speaker 1: I think she had a publishing house called Black Sun.

422
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: But she wrote for a while pornography on commission from

423
00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:35,900
Speaker 1: an Oklahoma oil man who couldn't get enough of her stuff.

424
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: Like, that was just one of the many— Brought me

425
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 2: another sexist story.

426
00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:41,700
Speaker 1: That was one of the many things that she did

427
00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: in her life. She wrote pornography.

428
00:23:44,140 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 2: Amazing. Yeah. So World War I turns out to be

429
00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:50,889
Speaker 2: a good thing if you're a woman because steel is

430
00:23:50,930 --> 00:23:53,930
Speaker 2: in short supply. The U.S. joins the war and says,

431
00:23:53,970 --> 00:23:56,490
Speaker 2: you know what? We got to have all the steel

432
00:23:57,330 --> 00:24:00,350
Speaker 2: in this country go toward war munitions and battleships and stuff.

433
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:04,090
Speaker 2: And American women said, oh, great, because you know what

434
00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:06,850
Speaker 2: has steel? My corset. Let's get rid of it and

435
00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: ditch these things for good. And elastic fabric started coming

436
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: into the market. Latex came into the market. And so

437
00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:16,619
Speaker 2: all of a sudden American women could finally get rid

438
00:24:16,660 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: of the corset in favor of this new invention called

439
00:24:21,619 --> 00:24:24,109
Speaker 2: the brassiere. And, of course, we don't want you to

440
00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:26,710
Speaker 2: be too comfortable, ladies. You might want to at least

441
00:24:26,750 --> 00:24:29,510
Speaker 2: put a girdle on just to keep everything nice and

442
00:24:29,530 --> 00:24:30,010
Speaker 2: cinched in.

443
00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 1: Which is basically like Hermione Cadell's two-piece corset. corset, but whatever. Yeah.

444
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:42,490
Speaker 1: Patriotism freed them from that social expectation of having to

445
00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:45,090
Speaker 1: wear a corset, which is pretty great. But I saw

446
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:51,420
Speaker 1: that the steel that the corsets freed up equaled 28,000 tons,

447
00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: enough to make two battleships in World War I.

448
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,300
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

449
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: That's a lot of corset steel.

450
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:58,420
Speaker 2: Yeah.

451
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: So this led to like a complete revolution in undergarments

452
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,530
Speaker 1: for women right so in the 20s um the the

453
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:12,649
Speaker 1: the one of the first bras was basically there was

454
00:25:12,690 --> 00:25:18,310
Speaker 1: a company called boish form which held the breasts down

455
00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: and back back and to the left.

456
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: Wait, what was it called?

457
00:25:25,180 --> 00:25:30,730
Speaker 1: Boyish form, B-O-Y-S-H form. And from what I can tell,

458
00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:33,170
Speaker 1: they were basically saying boyish form.

459
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I was about to say.

460
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: But they shortened it by removing the I and changed

461
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,260
Speaker 1: it to boyish form.

462
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: They're like, they'll never know.

463
00:25:40,970 --> 00:25:44,350
Speaker 1: Right. No one will ever get this trickery. But it

464
00:25:44,369 --> 00:25:47,590
Speaker 1: was because of that flapper style was very much slight

465
00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:50,470
Speaker 1: and boyish. But then along came a company in the

466
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: late 20s called Maidenform. And they named themselves Maidenform to

467
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,260
Speaker 1: kind of contradict boyish form because one of their big

468
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,740
Speaker 1: things was, hey, man, let's not be ashamed of these

469
00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: boobs and try to hide them. Let's accentuate these things.

470
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: And boy, did they ever.

471
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,340
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, in the World War II, in the

472
00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:12,700
Speaker 2: age of the big buxom Hollywood bombshell era, people like

473
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: Jane Russell, then in the 50s with Marilyn Monroe. And

474
00:26:16,580 --> 00:26:18,619
Speaker 2: it's all this, you know, sort of male ideal at

475
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,219
Speaker 2: the time is what we're getting at is the bras

476
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:24,510
Speaker 2: sort of followed suit. But when these women came on

477
00:26:24,550 --> 00:26:27,310
Speaker 2: the scene, that's when if you look at TV shows

478
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:29,909
Speaker 2: from back then or advertisements, you see these bras that

479
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:33,670
Speaker 2: were very pointy. And I think they even called them

480
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:35,430
Speaker 2: bullet bras or torpedo bras.

481
00:26:35,650 --> 00:26:35,790
Speaker 3: Yeah.

482
00:26:36,410 --> 00:26:38,630
Speaker 2: And that was sort of all the rage just because

483
00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:42,550
Speaker 2: the sort of, I mean, Hollywood's always sort of driving

484
00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:44,650
Speaker 2: fashion in that way, and it certainly did back then,

485
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: because Twiggy coming along in the 60s with her very

486
00:26:48,980 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: sort of slim androgynous look, all of a sudden in

487
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: the 60s, bras were being thrown in the trash can.

488
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: They're like, we don't need bras at all.

489
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:00,929
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there was a guy, a designer, who

490
00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:04,370
Speaker 1: was an avant-garde designer named Rudy Gernreich, and he came

491
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: up with the no bra in 1964, which is basically

492
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,630
Speaker 1: like what you would consider a bra today. It's meant

493
00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:15,929
Speaker 1: to just kind of be there and be supportive, but

494
00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:18,830
Speaker 1: also kind of fade into the background, which.

495
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:19,810
Speaker 2: Is the antithesis. Like a nice quiet friend.

496
00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:20,330
Speaker 1: Huh?

497
00:27:20,890 --> 00:27:22,490
Speaker 2: Like a quiet friend. Exactly.

498
00:27:23,609 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: But that's like the antithesis of the torpedo or bullet bra,

499
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: which would take your eye clean out if you got

500
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: too close to it. But this is– you can kind

501
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,060
Speaker 1: of see, like, we've gone from 20s where boy form was–

502
00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:40,660
Speaker 1: or boyish form was all the rage to the exact opposite,

503
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: to back to the 20s. And then it kind of

504
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:49,330
Speaker 1: swung back toward, you know, large, busty, popping out kind

505
00:27:49,369 --> 00:27:51,750
Speaker 1: of thing, even more than before. Because now it's not

506
00:27:51,790 --> 00:27:54,370
Speaker 1: covered by a sweater. With torpedoes, it was all about

507
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:59,740
Speaker 1: accentuating the boobs upward and to the left. And then

508
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: the Wonder Bra kind of really helped move that along.

509
00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:06,609
Speaker 1: And what was really interesting is I remember when the

510
00:28:06,670 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: Wonder Bra came out in America. It was in the 90s.

511
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:14,330
Speaker 1: But it turns out that in the far off land

512
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,580
Speaker 1: of Canada, it had been invented 30 years before. It

513
00:28:18,619 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: just took 30 years to get down to America and

514
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: become popular.

515
00:28:21,859 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny.

516
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,020
Speaker 1: Isn't that weird?

517
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is totally weird.

518
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:25,100
Speaker 1: Yeah.

519
00:28:25,670 --> 00:28:28,150
Speaker 2: And Canadians are too nice to insist. Like, by the way,

520
00:28:29,130 --> 00:28:30,260
Speaker 2: we have a better bra up here.

521
00:28:30,580 --> 00:28:33,420
Speaker 1: Right. And then now things have swum back again to

522
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: where they're like, do you even need a bra? And

523
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,100
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, I don't think you do.

524
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,700
Speaker 1: It's kind of a personal preference.

525
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,290
Speaker 2: Yeah. It certainly can be, but I also think there's

526
00:28:43,310 --> 00:28:44,350
Speaker 2: still very much a stigma.

527
00:28:46,930 --> 00:28:50,650
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's true. There's just no arguing

528
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:51,170
Speaker 1: that right now.

529
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:54,110
Speaker 2: No, I mean, if you're a woman and you go

530
00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:59,940
Speaker 2: waltzing into a conference meeting at your business and you're

531
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,220
Speaker 2: not wearing a bra, then someone's going to say something.

532
00:29:03,460 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: I guarantee you.

533
00:29:04,580 --> 00:29:09,460
Speaker 1: Exactly, yes. But I think also even if somebody didn't

534
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: say something or it was okay with everybody else, from

535
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: what I can tell, there's a certain psychological– security blanket

536
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: aspect to wearing a bra if that's what you've been

537
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: raised to do to wear a bra oh for sure

538
00:29:23,790 --> 00:29:26,310
Speaker 1: and to not do that would take a real psychological

539
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:29,709
Speaker 1: shift in how you feel and how how secure you

540
00:29:29,730 --> 00:29:32,610
Speaker 1: feel without it and i was reading about training bras

541
00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:34,950
Speaker 1: because i didn't feel like i was enough of a

542
00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:35,610
Speaker 1: creep as.

543
00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:38,690
Speaker 2: It is you're like oh boy.

544
00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: But from what i was reading about training bras, even

545
00:29:43,420 --> 00:29:47,260
Speaker 1: if the girl doesn't need a bra yet for any

546
00:29:47,980 --> 00:29:52,700
Speaker 1: real purpose, it provides like some kind of psychological thing

547
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:55,770
Speaker 1: that they're like, okay, I'm keeping up with my peers

548
00:29:55,790 --> 00:29:58,090
Speaker 1: who actually do need a bra. Or I'm going to

549
00:29:58,150 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: like the eighth grade dance or something. probably say sixth

550
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,260
Speaker 1: grade dance or something. And I want to wear this dress,

551
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: but it's going to look weird if I'm not wearing

552
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,980
Speaker 1: a bra. So I need a bra. So, so, and

553
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: I think that kind of psychology continues on well into

554
00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:14,590
Speaker 1: adulthood too, so that it would be weird or feel

555
00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:16,770
Speaker 1: weird to not wear a bra if that's what you've

556
00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:18,710
Speaker 1: done your whole life. Yeah.

557
00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:20,450
Speaker 2: And I think it also has to do with your

558
00:30:20,510 --> 00:30:26,460
Speaker 2: comfort level with your, with your breast size. Sure. You know,

559
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: not to get too personal, but like, If I had

560
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,650
Speaker 2: a dime for every time Emily was like, you got

561
00:30:32,670 --> 00:30:35,350
Speaker 2: to go get the delivery food at the door because

562
00:30:35,410 --> 00:30:36,270
Speaker 2: I'm not wearing a bra.

563
00:30:36,730 --> 00:30:38,430
Speaker 1: Sure.

564
00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:41,910
Speaker 2: And, you know, Emily has bigger boobs. So there, I

565
00:30:41,930 --> 00:30:45,150
Speaker 2: said it. She might be more comfortable if she had

566
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:49,050
Speaker 2: smaller breasts. But I don't know. I'm going to go

567
00:30:49,090 --> 00:30:50,290
Speaker 2: home and ask her, though. Okay.

568
00:30:51,470 --> 00:30:54,050
Speaker 1: I feel like we should sit in silence for five minutes.

569
00:30:58,470 --> 00:31:02,469
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Maidenform. We'll get to this later, but

570
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: they were founded in 1929 by William and Ida Rosenthal,

571
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: who invented or introduced at least the letter-based cup sizing system.

572
00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:13,660
Speaker 3: Yeah.

573
00:31:14,180 --> 00:31:17,780
Speaker 2: But we'll get to that weird bit of voodoo in

574
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: a minute because I still have no idea what's going

575
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,300
Speaker 2: on there. But in– actually, it wasn't in a year.

576
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,690
Speaker 2: From 1949 to 1963– They had a very, very successful

577
00:31:28,750 --> 00:31:32,390
Speaker 2: print ad campaign called I Dream, which you can go

578
00:31:32,430 --> 00:31:35,870
Speaker 2: look up online. And these ads, which were very racy

579
00:31:35,910 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: at the time, of course, were women doing things topless

580
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:42,490
Speaker 2: with just their bra on. They would have on like

581
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: a regular skirt that you would wear in that era,

582
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: but no top, no blouse. And they were dreaming. One

583
00:31:50,580 --> 00:31:52,620
Speaker 2: lady was dreaming of being a firefighter, and she was

584
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,300
Speaker 2: fighting a fire with no shirt on. Or I dreamed

585
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 2: I went back to school in my maiden form bra.

586
00:31:59,940 --> 00:32:02,230
Speaker 2: And it's a woman in her bra at a grammar

587
00:32:02,270 --> 00:32:05,430
Speaker 2: school desk. Or I dreamed I won the election in

588
00:32:05,470 --> 00:32:06,510
Speaker 2: my maiden form bra.

589
00:32:06,670 --> 00:32:07,830
Speaker 1: Man, that's a face palm.

590
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:12,350
Speaker 2: She's taking the stage on election night. And beyond these being,

591
00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:16,410
Speaker 2: and old advertisements are all funny and awful in every way.

592
00:32:17,030 --> 00:32:19,770
Speaker 2: But beyond this being funny and awful, it truly is

593
00:32:19,810 --> 00:32:23,110
Speaker 2: kind of gross that what they're showing are things that

594
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:26,900
Speaker 2: are dreams for these women like, having a regular job

595
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: and things that they may not have been allowed to

596
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: do at the time.

597
00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So but in at the time, like, yes, they

598
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,870
Speaker 1: were trying to sell their bras. And yes, there was

599
00:32:36,910 --> 00:32:39,910
Speaker 1: like a certain amount of sex appeal to the whole campaign.

600
00:32:40,490 --> 00:32:44,710
Speaker 1: But in their defense, like this is a very like progressive,

601
00:32:44,830 --> 00:32:48,590
Speaker 1: liberating ad campaign. It was conceived by three women. Yeah.

602
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:51,310
Speaker 1: And on one hand. And also, it's not like they

603
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:54,130
Speaker 1: were like, ha ha, you couldn't possibly hold public office

604
00:32:54,150 --> 00:32:57,300
Speaker 1: because you're a woman. It was like like it was

605
00:32:57,450 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: showing that women dream of this kind of stuff, that

606
00:32:59,780 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: they want to do this kind of thing. And that

607
00:33:02,420 --> 00:33:04,580
Speaker 1: at least in their dreams, they're capable of doing this

608
00:33:04,940 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: rather than we can't even talk about that. It's so preposterous.

609
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,780
Speaker 1: We couldn't even possibly create an ad campaign. So it

610
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,370
Speaker 1: was kind of like. progressive in that sense it's in

611
00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:18,350
Speaker 1: retrospect that it's really cringy but really what you're cringing

612
00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:20,970
Speaker 1: it's not like maiden form was making fun of women

613
00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:24,050
Speaker 1: for not being able to to do these things it's

614
00:33:24,090 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: more an indictment of society for them being restricted from

615
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: these things at the time.

616
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,500
Speaker 2: Yeah that's this is one of these definitely where you

617
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,220
Speaker 2: could come at it from a lot of angles sure

618
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:36,140
Speaker 2: and have opinions about it um but we should read

619
00:33:36,550 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: they had a contest in 1955 with the public about

620
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:45,260
Speaker 2: new dream ideas. And the winner from 1957, and Dave,

621
00:33:45,300 --> 00:33:48,300
Speaker 2: God bless you for finding this, was I dreamed I

622
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: danced the hornpipe with Sinbad the Sailor. Don't even know

623
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: what that means.

624
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: That's another thing you can approach from a bunch of

625
00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: different angles.

626
00:33:58,340 --> 00:34:01,310
Speaker 2: I think we should approach a message break, and then

627
00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:05,630
Speaker 2: we'll talk about the wacky world of bra sizing right

628
00:34:05,650 --> 00:34:24,380
Speaker 2: after this. Well, now, when you're.

629
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,819
Speaker 3: On the road, driving in your truck, why not learn

630
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,740
Speaker 3: a thing or two from Josh and Chuck?

631
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,740
Speaker 4: It's Stuff You Should Know.

632
00:34:33,219 --> 00:34:34,370
Speaker 3: Stuff You Should Know.

633
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:35,370
Speaker 2: All right.

634
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: All right, Chuck. So one thing that I've read is

635
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: that American bras don't fit and that there's a reason

636
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,590
Speaker 1: for that. Something like there's a statistic that 80% of women,

637
00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:54,950
Speaker 1: American women at least, are wearing bras that don't fit.

638
00:34:55,170 --> 00:34:57,750
Speaker 1: And supposedly that's kind of made up and based on

639
00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:00,739
Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence, but it's been bandied about for so long

640
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:04,259
Speaker 1: that people take it as gospel. But regardless of whatever

641
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: the statistic may or may not be, American bras are

642
00:35:07,620 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: known for not fitting. And it's because American bra manufacturers

643
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: have basically said, we've created this standard measuring scale. And

644
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: it just is economically efficient for us to mass produce,

645
00:35:21,390 --> 00:35:24,450
Speaker 1: you know, this size to this size. And if you

646
00:35:24,489 --> 00:35:28,899
Speaker 1: happen to fall outside of that size, you're SOL. And

647
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,089
Speaker 1: it's your fault. There's something wrong with your body for

648
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:37,649
Speaker 1: not adhering to the standard norm, body size norm. This

649
00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:40,630
Speaker 1: is largely becoming a relic of the past, but it's still,

650
00:35:40,969 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, very much present when you

651
00:35:43,540 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: go bra shopping.

652
00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:49,379
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, you know, I've heard this complaint from Emily

653
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,419
Speaker 2: over the years and a lot of women that, yeah,

654
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: it's tough to find a bra that really fits well

655
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,989
Speaker 2: and feels good and does everything it's supposed to do.

656
00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:00,270
Speaker 2: And that's why when you find one, you know, you

657
00:36:00,310 --> 00:36:01,370
Speaker 2: order like six of them.

658
00:36:01,590 --> 00:36:02,570
Speaker 1: Yeah.

659
00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:05,069
Speaker 2: But there are these days before we get into the

660
00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:08,670
Speaker 2: sizing that is changing some now with these more bespoke

661
00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:13,890
Speaker 2: companies that have a more custom custom made tailored to

662
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:16,770
Speaker 2: your size kind of things. And I wonder why it

663
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: took that long for someone to think outside the box

664
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 2: and challenge challenge a big brassiere and say, hey, you're

665
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,700
Speaker 2: doing it wrong. I bet there's a lot of money

666
00:36:26,739 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: to be made from bespoke brassieres.

667
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I understand, there is. And although it's

668
00:36:33,580 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: just now happening in the U.S., apparently it happened, I believe,

669
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: back in the 90s in the U.K. with a movement

670
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: called bra fitting, one word, where it's basically like, look,

671
00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:48,340
Speaker 1: two measurements is not enough to create a perfect bra.

672
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,180
Speaker 1: You need a bunch of different measurements under different conditions.

673
00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:53,620
Speaker 1: You need to take your shirt and bra all the

674
00:36:53,660 --> 00:36:56,650
Speaker 1: way off. We need to get in there. But when

675
00:36:56,690 --> 00:37:00,110
Speaker 1: we're done, you're going to have a well-fitting bra, and

676
00:37:00,150 --> 00:37:03,650
Speaker 1: it's just now catching on in the United States. And

677
00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:07,450
Speaker 1: what's surprising is that, you know, it's just now catching on,

678
00:37:07,550 --> 00:37:11,390
Speaker 1: but this technique and the sizing standard that we use

679
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:14,950
Speaker 1: here in the United States goes back to the, I think,

680
00:37:15,010 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: the 20s, if not the 30s.

681
00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, 1929 is when they founded Maidenform and introduced

682
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,050
Speaker 2: this cup sizing technique. And I'm not going to pretend

683
00:37:25,070 --> 00:37:26,189
Speaker 2: to fully understand this.

684
00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:27,310
Speaker 1: I got it.

685
00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:29,330
Speaker 2: But I can read. Oh, you got it? Yeah, yeah.

686
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:31,270
Speaker 1: You go ahead, though. I want to hear your attempt.

687
00:37:31,850 --> 00:37:34,490
Speaker 2: No, no, no. Because what will happen is I'll read

688
00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:37,300
Speaker 2: and then you'll do it again in your own words.

689
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: And then this episode is 15 minutes longer than it

690
00:37:41,260 --> 00:37:41,580
Speaker 2: should be.

691
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:45,740
Speaker 1: All right. You got my number. And my number happens

692
00:37:45,780 --> 00:37:51,170
Speaker 1: to be 34C. So the cup system is what it's called.

693
00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:56,540
Speaker 1: It consists of two measurements and the difference between them.

694
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: So the first measurement is the overbust, which is the

695
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,770
Speaker 1: circumference of your chest all the way around your body

696
00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:09,810
Speaker 1: across the nipples. That's your overbust measurement, right?

697
00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:10,509
Speaker 2: Okay.

698
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:15,410
Speaker 1: Now, if you'll also measure right below the breasts all

699
00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: the way around your body, that's your underbust. And if

700
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,739
Speaker 1: you subtract those two, you're going to come up with

701
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,580
Speaker 1: a difference in inches or centimeters, depending on where you

702
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,100
Speaker 1: are in the world. And you can use that as

703
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: part of a handy table to say, oh, there's a

704
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,860
Speaker 1: three-inch difference. That means that I'm a C cup, right? Right.

705
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:34,180
Speaker 2: That's where the lettering comes from.

706
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:38,590
Speaker 1: Right. The difference between your underbust and your overbust generates

707
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,569
Speaker 1: some knowledge about the volume that your breasts are going

708
00:38:41,590 --> 00:38:43,810
Speaker 1: to take up, which is your cup size. Got it?

709
00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:45,270
Speaker 2: It generates knowledge?

710
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:45,950
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

711
00:38:45,989 --> 00:38:46,450
Speaker 2: Exactly.

712
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:51,870
Speaker 1: So that underbust measurement is also used and that's the

713
00:38:52,030 --> 00:38:55,049
Speaker 1: number that comes before it. So if you're a 34C,

714
00:38:55,110 --> 00:38:58,390
Speaker 1: that means your chest is 34 inches around at the

715
00:38:58,430 --> 00:39:03,190
Speaker 1: rib cage under your breasts. And then if you're a C,

716
00:39:03,410 --> 00:39:05,549
Speaker 1: that means that there's a three inch difference. That means

717
00:39:05,590 --> 00:39:09,870
Speaker 1: that you are 37 inches around your chest at the nipples.

718
00:39:10,750 --> 00:39:13,710
Speaker 1: And so you'd be a 34C. And that those two

719
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:18,230
Speaker 1: measurements are supposedly like all you need to come up

720
00:39:18,250 --> 00:39:21,689
Speaker 1: with a fitting bra. But apparently that's just not true.

721
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:25,210
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that all makes sense. I think the

722
00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:27,450
Speaker 2: thing that confused me is the sister sizing.

723
00:39:27,650 --> 00:39:28,509
Speaker 1: I understand that too.

724
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:32,969
Speaker 2: Thing. so if you have a 36C and a 34C

725
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: brassiere that's not the same cup size because a 34C

726
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: is the only true C yeah so if you want

727
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: to go up a band size but not the cup

728
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 2: size you buy a 36B or a 38A so the

729
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,660
Speaker 2: volume of the cup size is relative to the circumference

730
00:39:48,739 --> 00:39:50,109
Speaker 2: of the band Yeah.

731
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:52,770
Speaker 1: I mean, it's as simple as that. I think the problem,

732
00:39:52,810 --> 00:39:56,210
Speaker 1: the breakdown is, is that this sister sizing thing has

733
00:39:56,290 --> 00:39:59,649
Speaker 1: not been widely publicized to women. And so that they

734
00:39:59,690 --> 00:40:02,510
Speaker 1: think like, well, if the band is a little tight

735
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:06,380
Speaker 1: and I'm a 36C, then I need to go up

736
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: to a 38C. And that's just not the case. Yeah.

737
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,739
Speaker 2: In music, you want a tight band. In brassieres, you don't.

738
00:40:14,050 --> 00:40:17,260
Speaker 1: Well, supposedly part of that bra fitting trend that started

739
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:21,540
Speaker 1: in the UK is that suggests that a tight band

740
00:40:21,860 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: is the key to a good fitting bra, that that's

741
00:40:24,739 --> 00:40:27,100
Speaker 1: where most of your support comes and that most women

742
00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:30,300
Speaker 1: opt for a band size that's a little too loose.

743
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: But the point is, is your cup volume does not

744
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: go up when you go up a band size. It

745
00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:39,380
Speaker 1: doesn't have to. So that means that a 34C, if

746
00:40:39,420 --> 00:40:42,460
Speaker 1: you go down in band size, you would go up

747
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: in cup size and your cup size would stay the same.

748
00:40:45,219 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: So a 34C is the same as a 32D. And

749
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:50,860
Speaker 1: then the other way, a 34C is the same as

750
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,700
Speaker 1: a 36B. And once you understand the sister sizing thing,

751
00:40:55,260 --> 00:40:58,819
Speaker 1: then you can actually use this two measurement standard to

752
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:00,859
Speaker 1: find a bra that actually fits better.

753
00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:05,210
Speaker 2: That's right. And if you're wondering how this all works,

754
00:41:05,950 --> 00:41:11,230
Speaker 2: it works with bra fitting models. There are women that

755
00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:14,410
Speaker 2: get paid money to go in and get fit for

756
00:41:14,469 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of bras and to give feedback. And

757
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: this all start, well, it didn't completely start there. But

758
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: in the 1970s, there was a singer named Dorothy Galligan

759
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,690
Speaker 2: from New York answered an ad for a bra fitting model.

760
00:41:27,830 --> 00:41:31,620
Speaker 2: And they said, you know what? I know this sounds sexist,

761
00:41:31,739 --> 00:41:33,989
Speaker 2: and we probably, even though it's the 70s, shouldn't be

762
00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:37,790
Speaker 2: saying this in an office, but you have the perfect 34Bs,

763
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:41,730
Speaker 2: and that's the standard size which we're designing our bras on.

764
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:46,790
Speaker 2: So for almost 20 years, Dorothy Galligan was the model

765
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:50,129
Speaker 2: in New York in the lingerie district that would work 10, 11,

766
00:41:50,130 --> 00:41:54,310
Speaker 2: 12-hour days trying on thousands and thousands of bras and

767
00:41:54,330 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: giving her feedback. So they could go back to the

768
00:41:57,460 --> 00:41:58,620
Speaker 2: sewing machine and redo it.

769
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's the other part of the problem with

770
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: bras that don't necessarily fit. In addition to not making

771
00:42:04,540 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: larger sizes in cup volumes and smaller sizes in cup volumes,

772
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:12,330
Speaker 1: like they're based around one woman's pair of breasts and

773
00:42:12,410 --> 00:42:15,350
Speaker 1: her breasts became the standard for the bra industry in

774
00:42:15,390 --> 00:42:19,590
Speaker 1: the 20th century so that. if you could create a

775
00:42:19,630 --> 00:42:24,020
Speaker 1: bra that fit Dorothy Galligan correctly as a 34B, you

776
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: could use that to basically grow out from either way.

777
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: That's right.

778
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: So that's a real problem for women who have different

779
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,259
Speaker 1: shapes and sizes. And it's really sad to me to

780
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:36,620
Speaker 1: think that they were told for decades that, you know,

781
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,650
Speaker 1: if your bra doesn't fit, something's wrong with your body.

782
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:42,290
Speaker 1: You must acquit. Exactly.

783
00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:46,490
Speaker 2: Well, and here's the thing, too. It's not just breast size.

784
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:51,350
Speaker 2: It's You know, how big your back is and how, like,

785
00:42:52,370 --> 00:42:55,129
Speaker 2: the bra, it holds the breasts, the cups do, but,

786
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:57,190
Speaker 2: you know, it has to do with your shoulders and

787
00:42:57,210 --> 00:42:59,830
Speaker 2: your back and your armpits and everything else. Like, there's

788
00:42:59,850 --> 00:43:03,569
Speaker 2: so many nuances to everybody's body, men and women, that,

789
00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:07,070
Speaker 2: I mean, I think until recently they were trying to

790
00:43:07,110 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: do the best they could. But it was pretty narrow,

791
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,060
Speaker 2: the options that women had.

792
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get the impression that they were not trying

793
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: to do the best that they could, that they basically

794
00:43:16,140 --> 00:43:18,380
Speaker 1: said when we release a new bra, it comes in

795
00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:19,100
Speaker 1: these sizes.

796
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,100
Speaker 2: Well, doing the best they could for a huge industry

797
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: that had to satisfy, you know, tens of millions of

798
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,620
Speaker 2: different kind of bodies. Like they were kind of hamstrung.

799
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: You can't have. 450 bra sizes and manufacture on that scale.

800
00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:36,180
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't mass manufacture, but I think that's what's

801
00:43:36,219 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: being proven, like you were saying, by this new bespoke revolution.

802
00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

803
00:43:40,460 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: You can't get that big, although now you can get

804
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,290
Speaker 1: that big because it's bespoke and because you can say, hey,

805
00:43:47,390 --> 00:43:50,670
Speaker 1: download our app and take these measurements using your phone

806
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:52,989
Speaker 1: and upload it, and then we'll just custom make some

807
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:58,750
Speaker 1: bras for you. And I also read that Poland– makes really,

808
00:43:58,790 --> 00:44:02,029
Speaker 1: really good-fitting bras as well. I think it was a

809
00:44:02,070 --> 00:44:05,069
Speaker 1: New York Times article about it. And the author traveled

810
00:44:05,110 --> 00:44:07,930
Speaker 1: to Poland to verify this herself, and she said she

811
00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: didn't find the perfect bra, but she came away with

812
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: like four or five bras that were awfully close, way

813
00:44:13,580 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: closer than she'd ever had before.

814
00:44:16,180 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: It's funny. After all these years, I still remember to

815
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,100
Speaker 2: not put a bra in a dryer because of the

816
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: movie Hedwig and the Angry Inch.

817
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: I don't remember that part. No, I never saw it.

818
00:44:27,380 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: That's why I don't remember that part.

819
00:44:28,380 --> 00:44:31,060
Speaker 2: It's great. John Cameron Mitchell, who also a friend of

820
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,700
Speaker 2: Movie Crush, he's a friend of Noel's. He played Hedwig

821
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,300
Speaker 2: and created the character and directed the film. But there's

822
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:43,210
Speaker 2: a scene where he's screaming, do not put a bra

823
00:44:43,310 --> 00:44:48,290
Speaker 2: in a dryer. It warps. And I guess that's true

824
00:44:48,350 --> 00:44:50,610
Speaker 2: because ever since then I've been like, I don't know

825
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:52,609
Speaker 2: if I'm doing laundry. I should not put a bra

826
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:53,050
Speaker 2: in a dryer.

827
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:56,060
Speaker 1: It does do some weird things to it, although you

828
00:44:56,100 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: can also put it in a laundry bag, and I

829
00:44:58,100 --> 00:45:01,260
Speaker 1: think that keeps it from wrapping around stuff, which makes

830
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,450
Speaker 1: it last longer. You can't put it in a dryer.

831
00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:08,430
Speaker 2: Oh, right. Yeah, like when a bra collects everything else

832
00:45:08,469 --> 00:45:08,910
Speaker 2: in its wake.

833
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:15,490
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah. So I don't think we can not talk

834
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:17,190
Speaker 1: about Victoria's Secret.

835
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:19,489
Speaker 2: Man, if I had a dime for every time you

836
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:22,350
Speaker 2: said that to me. Or as many dumb, dumb guys

837
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:23,850
Speaker 2: call it, Victoria's Secrets.

838
00:45:24,810 --> 00:45:29,750
Speaker 1: Yeah, dummies. So Victoria's Secret actually started out, husband and

839
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:33,830
Speaker 1: wife founded it in the 70s in the San Francisco

840
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 1: area because the husband had gone to like the department

841
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,140
Speaker 1: store to buy lingerie for his wife and was treated

842
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: like a scale for it, right?

843
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: Even in San Francisco in the 70s?

844
00:45:43,660 --> 00:45:46,739
Speaker 1: I guess so. All right. Department stores have always been

845
00:45:46,780 --> 00:45:48,500
Speaker 1: a certain way no matter where you are.

846
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: I think.

847
00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:52,230
Speaker 1: Right. So he said, well, we need to create like

848
00:45:52,270 --> 00:45:54,669
Speaker 1: a lingerie store that's made for men to go buy

849
00:45:54,730 --> 00:45:57,250
Speaker 1: for women. And that's what they created was Victoria's Secret.

850
00:45:57,989 --> 00:46:01,779
Speaker 1: And it was semi-successful. And then they sold to a

851
00:46:01,860 --> 00:46:06,739
Speaker 1: guy named Leslie Wexman. I believe it was Wexman who

852
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,980
Speaker 1: had founded The Limited. And he took it— I think he

853
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,180
Speaker 1: bought it for a million dollars. And within two decades,

854
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,870
Speaker 1: it was worth $ 2 billion. And the guy who founded

855
00:46:18,910 --> 00:46:21,149
Speaker 1: it with his wife, they ended up getting divorced. And

856
00:46:21,310 --> 00:46:24,810
Speaker 1: he died broke and jumped from the Golden Gate Bridge,

857
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:25,630
Speaker 1: sadly enough.

858
00:46:26,310 --> 00:46:26,710
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.

859
00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:33,450
Speaker 1: But Victoria's Secret dominated the— the bra industry in the

860
00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:37,100
Speaker 1: United States for many, many decades until very recently when

861
00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: it was overthrown by women who said, enough.

862
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's funny. You know, Roy Raymond said, you

863
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,660
Speaker 2: know what we need is a store where men can

864
00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:50,259
Speaker 2: go in and buy sexy lingerie for their wives. And

865
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:52,180
Speaker 2: what he failed to hear was the sound of tens

866
00:46:52,219 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: of millions of women across the country saying, No, you don't.

867
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's what that's what Leslie, I think it's Wexman.

868
00:46:59,739 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: That's what he figured out was that this this thing

869
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,710
Speaker 1: was a good idea, but they had missed the mark

870
00:47:04,750 --> 00:47:07,350
Speaker 1: and that they were marketing toward men and they were

871
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:10,590
Speaker 1: completely isolating women. Because he said, like these Victoria's Secret

872
00:47:10,650 --> 00:47:14,029
Speaker 1: stores were lit with like, you know, weird kind of

873
00:47:14,130 --> 00:47:17,090
Speaker 1: reddish lighting and there were velvet couches and oriental rugs.

874
00:47:17,140 --> 00:47:17,660
Speaker 1: And he said that.

875
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,380
Speaker 2: I've walked by them in the mall very slowly.

876
00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: This was like in the early 70s or late 70s

877
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: and early 80s.

878
00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:26,540
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm talking. Okay.

879
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:28,420
Speaker 1: All right. So he said, man, I would have loved

880
00:47:28,460 --> 00:47:31,210
Speaker 1: to have seen this. He said they were Victorian, not

881
00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:37,009
Speaker 1: like a Victorian foyer. They were like a Victorian brothel, basically.

882
00:47:37,330 --> 00:47:40,750
Speaker 1: And it was like just chasing women away, attracting men.

883
00:47:41,050 --> 00:47:44,330
Speaker 1: But women buy, you know, underwear for themselves way more

884
00:47:44,370 --> 00:47:47,250
Speaker 1: than their husbands do. And so he kind of revamped

885
00:47:47,330 --> 00:47:49,910
Speaker 1: it a little bit and turned it into something that

886
00:47:49,989 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: women felt comfortable and actually wanted to go into.

887
00:47:52,820 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. According to that book Uplift that we

888
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, despite Victoria's Secret and its history, women have

889
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: really been key to the development of bras in the

890
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: United States. I think over 1,200 U.S. patents have been

891
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,739
Speaker 2: awarded for bras between 1863 and 1969, and half of

892
00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:17,850
Speaker 2: those have been held by women. And in the industry,

893
00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:22,750
Speaker 2: they have always held pretty important positions and been well-regarded

894
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:30,790
Speaker 2: designers and managers, specialists, merchandising, promotional product managers. It is

895
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:34,700
Speaker 2: one industry where it seems that has not been, here's

896
00:48:34,739 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: a product for women run entirely by men.

897
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,939
Speaker 1: Right. And rightfully so, I would say.

898
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

899
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:45,299
Speaker 1: So there is also a very famous legend as far

900
00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:49,190
Speaker 1: as bras go, which is the burning of bras at

901
00:48:49,590 --> 00:48:50,549
Speaker 1: a 1968 demonstration.

902
00:48:51,130 --> 00:48:52,190
Speaker 2: Yeah, not true, apparently.

903
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:56,190
Speaker 1: No, it's a myth. There was, in fact, a demonstration

904
00:48:56,230 --> 00:49:00,339
Speaker 1: outside of Miss America pageant in Atlantic City in 1968.

905
00:49:00,340 --> 00:49:05,540
Speaker 1: It was the brainchild of Carol Hanisch, who helped basically

906
00:49:05,620 --> 00:49:09,170
Speaker 1: at this moment give birth to second wave feminism. And

907
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:12,710
Speaker 1: they actually had a trash can that said freedom trash can.

908
00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:15,850
Speaker 1: And women threw stuff into it that they considered like

909
00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: shackles of the patriarchy, like false eyelashes, bras. lingerie that

910
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: kind of stuff but there was no burning that came

911
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,020
Speaker 1: from a reporter who suggested that they burn it as

912
00:49:28,060 --> 00:49:30,540
Speaker 1: a nod to the burning of draft cards but no

913
00:49:30,580 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: one actually burned this stuff but it became kind of

914
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,820
Speaker 1: set in stone as true even though it really wasn't that's.

915
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,029
Speaker 2: Right big fat lie And.

916
00:49:40,010 --> 00:49:42,620
Speaker 1: Then lastly, Chuck, I've got one extra thing. You ready?

917
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: Ready.

918
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:45,339
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else?

919
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: I don't.

920
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: Do you need to wear a bra? It's a longstanding question.

921
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: And apparently the answer is no, at least as far

922
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,140
Speaker 1: as a study in France, a 15-year study of 300 women.

923
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,460
Speaker 1: I think they're aged 18 to 35. And this study

924
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,220
Speaker 1: found that women who did not wear bras developed more

925
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:14,259
Speaker 1: muscle tissue in their breasts, ostensibly to provide support that

926
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: the bra wasn't there to provide. And that by proxy,

927
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: if you did wear a bra, the muscles in your

928
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,569
Speaker 1: breasts were less prone to develop, and thus you would

929
00:50:26,610 --> 00:50:31,190
Speaker 1: have more likely to have breasts that sag or pendular

930
00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:34,069
Speaker 1: breasts than you would have if you didn't wear a bra.

931
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:36,740
Speaker 1: Kind of like you're making your breasts sink or swim

932
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:38,740
Speaker 1: by not wearing a bra.

933
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:39,980
Speaker 2: Makes sense.

934
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: It's just one study, but it is pretty surprising that

935
00:50:43,739 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: they found basically the opposite of conventional wisdom. Because most

936
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: people say, oh, if you don't wear a bra, your

937
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: breasts will get saggy. And that's apparently not true.

938
00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:52,660
Speaker 2: Interesting.

939
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: And I also ran across a weird question on Google.

940
00:50:56,140 --> 00:51:00,270
Speaker 1: You know, it has like suggested searches. What happens if

941
00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:01,350
Speaker 1: we squeeze breasts?

942
00:51:04,450 --> 00:51:05,690
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know.

943
00:51:06,170 --> 00:51:08,930
Speaker 1: I didn't even bother to look. Just the question itself

944
00:51:08,969 --> 00:51:09,660
Speaker 1: was good enough.

945
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: Oh, man.

946
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:13,100
Speaker 1: You got anything else?

947
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:14,299
Speaker 2: I got nothing else.

948
00:51:14,660 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: What about the bro or the man's ear?

949
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Can't forget the bro.

950
00:51:19,540 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: Well, since we said bro, it's time for listener mail, everybody.

951
00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:29,180
Speaker 2: I'm going to call this more on bidets. Hey, guys.

952
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,150
Speaker 2: Love the show. Thanks for all you do. It's especially

953
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:34,029
Speaker 2: meaningful in these crazy times. I'm currently hanging out in

954
00:51:34,070 --> 00:51:37,509
Speaker 2: northern Japan on a trip that changed from a between-jobs

955
00:51:37,550 --> 00:51:41,049
Speaker 2: snowboarding sabbatical in December to, well, I guess I live

956
00:51:41,090 --> 00:51:44,450
Speaker 2: here for now. So you're not a bad place to be,

957
00:51:44,489 --> 00:51:47,460
Speaker 2: I would imagine. So good for you, Adam. I'm sure

958
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,259
Speaker 2: you guys got a ton of similar emails to this,

959
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: but in the bidets episode, you mentioned a type of

960
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: toilet with a sink sprayer attachment nearby. In my experience,

961
00:51:56,140 --> 00:51:59,070
Speaker 2: this is a super common thing in households and many

962
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 2: lower-budget hotel accommodations in the Philippines. and other Southeast Asian countries.

963
00:52:04,260 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: It is awesome and commonly referred to as the bum

964
00:52:07,219 --> 00:52:11,100
Speaker 2: gun by foreign travelers and expats. I don't know the

965
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: etymology of bum gun, so I'm not sure if that

966
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: term has been adopted domestically in various bum gun enthusiast countries.

967
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:21,969
Speaker 2: But like One Ring or Spidey's abilities, it has great

968
00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:25,750
Speaker 2: power and must be wielded carefully. So bum gun wisely,

969
00:52:25,810 --> 00:52:27,770
Speaker 2: my friends. That is from Adam.

970
00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:31,089
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Adam. And best of luck to you

971
00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:35,739
Speaker 1: in your new home. Hang tight, buddy. Things will pass eventually.

972
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,020
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us like

973
00:52:38,180 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: Adam did and talk about bum guns or bras or

974
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,180
Speaker 1: what have you, you can email. Send us an email

975
00:52:44,450 --> 00:52:46,989
Speaker 1: to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

976
00:52:50,730 --> 00:52:53,010
Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

977
00:52:53,469 --> 00:52:57,730
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

978
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,700
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.