1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,400
Speaker 1: The club expects their golf proth and their assistant pros

2
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:05,960
Speaker 1: to make sure everything's perfect.

3
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,399
Speaker 2: We want a club row that can play like Tiger,

4
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 2: teach like butch merchandise like Ralph Lauren, and tell jokes

5
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 2: like Bob Hope.

6
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 3: Right, it is absolutely The problem is the amount of

7
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 3: pay for the amount of work.

8
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,760
Speaker 4: It doesn't mesh for clubs.

9
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,119
Speaker 5: If you don't make these changes, you're not going to

10
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 5: get the people you want. Your product is going to suffer.

11
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 5: People are not going to want to come play there,

12
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,159
Speaker 5: They're going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to

13
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 5: go out of business.

14
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 1: Is seth while helping He's the right guy in the

15
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 1: driver's seat, But is there a vehicle he can drive

16
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 1: that can make it any better?

17
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 6: People are put on earth to make everybody's lives better, right, Like?

18
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 6: How can he not want to be surrounded by those people?

19
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 4: Right then? And that's what our PGA professional is.

20
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 6: You know, it's not perfect, We're not perfect times far

21
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 6: from perfect.

22
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 4: We're moving the needle, making a lot.

23
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 6: Of progress and I hope people are noticing it. But

24
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 6: that's not the point either, right. The point is leaving

25
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,960
Speaker 6: the room better. And I'm going to keep fighting to

26
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 6: do that every day.

27
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 7: Put another log on the fire Nobody here is to

28
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:19,839
Speaker 7: get the time.

29
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 4: Welcome to the fire Pit with Matt Janella.

30
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 8: In part one of this series of podcasts on the

31
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 8: club pro crisis, we got the background on how and

32
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 8: why I'm doing this. In short, I said something ignorant.

33
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 8: I think most would call it stupid, and many did.

34
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 8: It's hard to be stupid without being ignorant, but I'd

35
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 8: like to think you can be ignorant without being stupid. Anyway,

36
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,600
Speaker 8: For more context, I hope you've listened to Part one

37
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 8: to summarize my sincere apologies to club pros and PGA professionals.

38
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 8: I appreciate you, and many of you I consider friends.

39
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 8: It's your humility and selflessness that are actually part of

40
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 8: the problem. As one club pro told me, you're not

41
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 8: good at promoting yourselves. You're too busy helping others, and

42
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 8: thus you're often taken for granted. On that note, I

43
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,119
Speaker 8: want to thank some of the sponsors of the Firepit collective.

44
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 8: Dormy Workshop is an incredible company, a golf family business

45
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 8: based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, where all they do is

46
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 8: make quality leather headcovers and accessories. Go to Dormy Workshop

47
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 8: dot com and use fire Pit fifteen for fifteen percent

48
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 8: off your next purchase. And then there's Link Soul, the

49
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,640
Speaker 8: lifestyle clothing brand I've worn on and off the course,

50
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 8: in and out of the water for ten years. Polos hats, hoodies, shorts,

51
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 8: pants and T shirts. Make par nott War and go

52
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 8: to link Soul dot com and use promo code fire

53
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 8: Pit twenty five for twenty five percent off your next purchase.

54
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 8: All right, For part two of this series, we start

55
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 8: with Shane Ryan, author of several golf books, which includes

56
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 8: Slaying the Tiger, Chasing the Legends, and The Cup They

57
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,360
Speaker 8: Couldn't Lose. Ryan has written for Grantlin, Paste Magazine, and

58
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,919
Speaker 8: The New York Times, and in May of twenty twenty two,

59
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,639
Speaker 8: wrote a story for Golf Dies entitled The Club Pro Crisis.

60
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 8: Why did you feel compelled or sort of inspired to

61
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 8: do what you did in telling that the story that

62
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 8: you've told here?

63
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, like you, Matt, I didn't know a

64
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 5: lot about this at all. I was not familiar with

65
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,640
Speaker 5: this world. You know, you know your club pro when

66
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 5: you go practice or play, and you sort of take

67
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 5: them for granted and you don't realize that, hey, they

68
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 5: might be working seventy hours a week and they might

69
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,960
Speaker 5: be under incredible stress and you know, not making as

70
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 5: much money as they want and all that. It actually

71
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 5: stemmed from a conversation I had. I wrote a book

72
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 5: about the Ryder Cup, and in the course of it,

73
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,120
Speaker 5: you know, I talked with the number of different people,

74
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 5: and basically through the crazy paths that sometimes happened, I

75
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 5: ended up talking with the club pro who said, you know,

76
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 5: you really need to look at this issue. It's happening everywhere.

77
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 5: It's a big deal. It's like a basically an epidemic.

78
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 5: And so that kind of piqued my interest and I

79
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,000
Speaker 5: sort of, you know, put a pin on it. And

80
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,040
Speaker 5: then when I had time, I threw a tweet out

81
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 5: there just saying, you know, is this something that's happening.

82
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 5: Do you feel like you're not in control of your time,

83
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,599
Speaker 5: You're being overworked, you're being underpaid, mistreated, whatever. And the

84
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 5: response was unbelievable, not just people you know, tweeting back

85
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 5: at me, but tagging everybody in that they knew. I

86
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 5: got a ton of emails and yeah, then it was

87
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 5: just off to the races, going wow, I had no idea.

88
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 5: This was such a phenomenon, and yeah, the story idea

89
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 5: was born from that.

90
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,239
Speaker 8: More on Shane Ryan's reporting in a minute for now

91
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 8: back to Chandler Withington, who we heard from throughout part

92
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,480
Speaker 8: one of this series. Withington is formerly of Seminal Marion

93
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 8: and Hazeltine, which is where he resigned from his post

94
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 8: as head professional in twenty twenty one.

95
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 2: So the summer of twenty one is when my wife

96
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,360
Speaker 2: and I really started having a conversation about is this us?

97
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 2: And it was really accelerated in our three year old

98
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 2: now she's two. You know, sometimes you go a week

99
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,919
Speaker 2: fourteen days without seeing your kids awake, and you know,

100
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,560
Speaker 2: two year olds don't have the memory. You know, my

101
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,720
Speaker 2: two year old looked at me one day when I

102
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,680
Speaker 2: was home. She looks at me and she goes, what

103
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 2: are you doing in mommy's house? She didn't know who

104
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 2: I was?

105
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 4: And that was it. That was that was all I.

106
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 2: Needed, you know, to do, Like, if my daughter doesn't

107
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 2: know who I am, then what are we really doing here?

108
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 9: Here?

109
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 8: From Shane Ryan's reporting and platform, several of these issues

110
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 8: have been exposed and according to censu's Art of War,

111
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 8: if you know the enemy in yourself. You need not

112
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 8: fear the result of one hundred battles. Here's Cody Sinkler,

113
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 8: director of golf operations at the Park in West Palm Beach, Florida.

114
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 10: I think golf pros are in a place right now

115
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 10: where I don't know if fed up is the word,

116
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 10: but we're a little sensitive in the golf pro crisis.

117
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 4: Shane's article highlighted what is very common.

118
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 10: I mean, what's highlighted in that article is are examples

119
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 10: of the lives of a lot of golf pros, if

120
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 10: not the majority of golf pros.

121
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 8: And here's Connor Evers, who graduated from the PGM program

122
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 8: at Methodist University in Fayetteville, North Carolina. He did internships

123
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 8: in Massachusetts, Jackson Hole, Detroit, and his last one was

124
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 8: at Adare Manor in Ireland. At twenty five years old,

125
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 8: he's been to thirty countries, which serves him well at

126
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 8: his current role of expedition planning manager for Haversham and Baker,

127
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,359
Speaker 8: a company that describes themselves as quote the country club

128
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,240
Speaker 8: of international golf travel. Here's Evers on the impact of

129
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:50,440
Speaker 8: Shane Ryan's.

130
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 4: Story when that article came out.

131
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,440
Speaker 11: I mean my social media and text blew up. I

132
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,400
Speaker 11: mean that morning when that drop, everyone was talking about it.

133
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,159
Speaker 11: I mean everyone that I'm connected with or in the

134
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 11: golf industry. That's just kind of how my life is.

135
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 4: But it was great.

136
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,479
Speaker 11: It definitely got you know, talking points, and I know

137
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 11: a few of my friends their members came up and

138
00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 11: was I mean, they're there every single day, but I

139
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 11: guess that was reading that article. A lot of people

140
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 11: as members were like, oh, I guess I should be

141
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 11: a little bit more thankful for what you guys do

142
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 11: for me. And that happened actually quite a few times,

143
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 11: tough out a couple of my people that I know.

144
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 11: So yeah, it was pretty interesting. That was very lightning,

145
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,920
Speaker 11: and I definitely think that was kind of the spark

146
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,160
Speaker 11: that kind of let the fire, if you will. With

147
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 11: the whole conversation a lot.

148
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 5: More Back to Shane Ryan, one thing I would say

149
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 5: is that the people I spoke to that are working

150
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,760
Speaker 5: on this are not necessarily you know, these idealists or anything.

151
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 5: And what the message they gave me, and I think

152
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 5: it's an important message, is that for clubs, if you

153
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,800
Speaker 5: don't make these changes, you're not going to get the

154
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 5: people you want. Your product is going to suffer. People

155
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 5: are not going to want to come play there, They're

156
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 5: going to go elsewhere, and you're eventually going to go

157
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 5: out of business.

158
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: Right.

159
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 5: This is not some kind of charity thing you need

160
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 5: to do. This is like a life and death thing

161
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 5: that all golf clubs need to look at because it

162
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 5: is crucial to their survival.

163
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 8: One of the things that needs looking at. One of

164
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 8: the battles is work life balance or imbalance. Here's robins Manly,

165
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 8: who became a class A pro twenty years ago. He

166
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 8: was an assistant pro at Breckenridge Golf Club for both decades.

167
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 8: After getting married at the age of forty six, he

168
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 8: left the golf industry and although he still has his

169
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 8: PGA membership and teaches on occasion, his current focus is

170
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 8: real estate.

171
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 3: I don't have the answer, but I think it definitely

172
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 3: comes from a misunderstanding of what that PGA logo really

173
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 3: means and what the value that we bring and us

174
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 3: as we have a hard time tooting our own horn,

175
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 3: I think as PGA professionals of really going to our

176
00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 3: employer and saying, look this is these are the I

177
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 3: taught and these are the number of golfers that I

178
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 3: brought to the game that are now avid golfers that

179
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 3: are now buying clubs and now joining Ladies League and

180
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,199
Speaker 3: Men's League. And we've got to do a better job

181
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 3: ourselves of promoting that and letting our employer know our value.

182
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 3: But it is there's not a perfect answer, for sure,

183
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 3: because golf is a sign up to sundown business and

184
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 3: if you're not there, it's rowned upon.

185
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:28,199
Speaker 4: And so.

186
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 3: I don't have the answer. And I and I've been

187
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 3: out of the business for a couple of years, so

188
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 3: I'm not actively in the grind. But the reason I

189
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 3: left was I wanted to get married and I knew

190
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 3: that that was not going to that wasn't going to

191
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 3: work eighty hours and not being with my new bride

192
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 3: wasn't and financially wasn't going to work. But I use

193
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 3: my golf connections to now move into the real estate world,

194
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,440
Speaker 3: which has been awesome. So it was a great, great

195
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 3: glad to still be a PGA member. I'll be a

196
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 3: life member here pretty soon. And but yeah, I don't

197
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 3: have the perfect answer, but it is absolutely The problem

198
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,599
Speaker 3: is the amount of pay for the amount of work.

199
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,800
Speaker 4: Doesn't mesh for.

200
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 8: A deeper dive in context back to Chandler Wington.

201
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 2: If you rewind and you got to talk to Seth.

202
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 2: February twenty twenty. Seth invited me and Kerry Cosby and

203
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: a few others down to Florida. He wanted to have

204
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,320
Speaker 2: kind of like a side council. You know, He's like,

205
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 2: tell me, tell me what's really going on. You know

206
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 2: that the board is going to tell me what's going on,

207
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 2: but what's really going on?

208
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:36,439
Speaker 4: And how can I help?

209
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,320
Speaker 2: Went around the table at the reef, which I'm sure

210
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,199
Speaker 2: you've been to. You know, Bob Ford, you know, was retiring.

211
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 2: He said, look, Seth, you're a financial guy. I think

212
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,840
Speaker 2: you know pension program be really impactful. And that's where

213
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 2: you know, Seth started a deferred compensation program which is

214
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,199
Speaker 2: really impactful. And that's what that conversation started from. Went

215
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: around the table and it got to me and I said, look, Bob,

216
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 2: I said, pension's impactful, no doubt, right, But I tell

217
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 2: you right now, like the twenty five year old kid's

218
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 2: going to look at that laugh because they're getting out

219
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,760
Speaker 2: because of something else. I said, I think the biggest

220
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 2: threat to our industry is the expectation of our time,

221
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 2: and we are the Titanic heading towards the Iceberg. And

222
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 2: if we can't reset expectations with the club managers and

223
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 2: the club leaders and the boards, we're going to hit

224
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 2: the Iceberger and it's going to think this. And I

225
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,599
Speaker 2: looked right over Bob. I said, Bob, don't even say it,

226
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 2: because I know what you're thinking. Like, I mean, here's

227
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 2: a guy who worked Oakmont and Seminal right said you

228
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 2: busted your ass. And I'm not trying to call younger

229
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 2: generation or even me lazy, but things have changed, is

230
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,680
Speaker 2: all I'm telling you. Is like the job that you

231
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 2: did for so long is not the way it is anymore.

232
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 2: And Bob goes, I am laughing parts I hear it,

233
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,319
Speaker 2: and I see it as it said. It's going to

234
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 2: feel like global warming. It's like one of those things

235
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,679
Speaker 2: where it's like we should look at this and we

236
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 2: should start taking measures now, because you can't just reverse

237
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,839
Speaker 2: the cycle. You know, when you get there right, it

238
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 2: takes years to reverse it. I said, look at the

239
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 2: size of Peach and programs are going like this, the

240
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,840
Speaker 2: amount of you know, young kids coming in or going

241
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 2: like this, The supply is going like this.

242
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 4: Ever since COVID.

243
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 2: So if the supply is going like this and the

244
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 2: game is going like this, where are we in five years?

245
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 4: Pretty scary?

246
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,320
Speaker 8: Connor evers again on how and why he left.

247
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 11: I guess the big thing was just the the hours.

248
00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 11: You know, eventually, I guess that I'm twenty five, I

249
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 11: eventually want to have a family and kids. You know,

250
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 11: it's not the same everywhere, but it is, you know,

251
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 11: long hours, and I just wanted, I guess, more structure.

252
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 11: I guess that's that was kind of the biggest thing

253
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 11: for me, Just wanting more structure, you know, the classic

254
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,040
Speaker 11: cliche nine to five. I know people don't like that,

255
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 11: but I do like I like structure like that. So

256
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 11: I guess the main thing was for me was the hours.

257
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 11: I mean, I definitely do miss a lot. I mean,

258
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 11: I don't play as much golf, to be honest with you,

259
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 11: as as I did. That's the one thing that I

260
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 11: do miss. I guess I'm kind of seeing it, you know,

261
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,559
Speaker 11: from from two things, from two sides of it now,

262
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,559
Speaker 11: But just the hours, I would say, to answer that question.

263
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 8: There here's Brad Snow of Raleigh, North Carolina. We heard

264
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 8: from him in part one. He's twenty nine, he graduated

265
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 8: from Mencia State and Golf Management. His internships were at

266
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 8: TPC Potomac, Durrell and Sleepy Hollow. He worked at Philly

267
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 8: Cricket Club for two summer seasons and a winter at

268
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,079
Speaker 8: John's Island in Florida. He spent time as a head

269
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,520
Speaker 8: fitter at Liberty National, and although he's still a Class

270
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 8: A professional, he's been out of the greengrass aspect of

271
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 8: the industry since twenty nineteen. He's now an online club retailer.

272
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 8: His thoughts on a thirty to forty thousand dollars annual

273
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 8: salary and a work life imbalance.

274
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,520
Speaker 4: So through the internships.

275
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 12: The PGA requires that all internships are paid through PGM,

276
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 12: which is awesome.

277
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:41,640
Speaker 4: We're very lucky.

278
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,560
Speaker 12: It kind of spans quite a spectrum though, once you

279
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 12: get into it, because I was lucky enough to have

280
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 12: a couple internships that had housing kind of built in.

281
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 12: I lived at the gatehouse right as he first go

282
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,959
Speaker 12: on property at Sleepy Holl. Me and two others or

283
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 12: another intern in an assistant lived right in the gatehouse there,

284
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,600
Speaker 12: which was incredible.

285
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,559
Speaker 4: I mean I could I woke our. The short game

286
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,679
Speaker 4: area was in my backyard.

287
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 12: So you know, we hang out there, kind of true

288
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 12: bagger vance style, turn someone's headlights on, or you know,

289
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 12: take a lantern out after work, whatever, chips and balls

290
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 12: or whatever.

291
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,480
Speaker 4: So positions like that. You're lucky so you can kind

292
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 4: of save a little more.

293
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 12: But I mean, yeah, once you're out looking at that

294
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:43,440
Speaker 12: thirty to forty number, is is a nice number. You

295
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 12: hear a lot of numbers lower than that, But it's

296
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 12: really not what you think about when you're getting into that.

297
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 12: It's you might have your kind of site set a

298
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 12: little further down the road. You know, you got to

299
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 12: put in the time grind it out if you want

300
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 12: to make money in green Grass.

301
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 4: You're not doing it as an assistant.

302
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 12: So yeah, it's definitely you're looking at that thirty to

303
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 12: forty if you really want to grind it out and teach.

304
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 4: I wasn't much of.

305
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 12: An instructor myself, never really leaned into that side of

306
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 12: the game too much. But there are opportunities if you

307
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 12: want to really press it and grind you can make

308
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 12: a little extra. But it's always tight, that's for sure.

309
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 8: From a couple of twenty somethings to Butch Harmon, whose

310
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 8: family has been entrenched in this industry for nearly a

311
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,320
Speaker 8: century and can always be counted on for a frank

312
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 8: and informed perspective. People are leaving the industry at a

313
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 8: rapid rate. Schools are closing, you know. Clubs are pinching budgets,

314
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 8: and when they do, they tend to like pinch from

315
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 8: the people component. You know, it's not going to be

316
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 8: on the quality of golf course itself. They look around

317
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 8: and they go, oh, well, we'll just we'll just only

318
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,200
Speaker 8: keep one pro or one assistant, or just two assistants

319
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 8: instead of three. I mean, and younger people coming up

320
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 8: in this industry are saying, I got to work that

321
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 8: long for that and be required to do all of that,

322
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 8: why would I?

323
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 4: I'm out, I don't disagree with it.

324
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 1: And now you have at the university level you have

325
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 1: the PGM programs, which is run by the PGA. A

326
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 1: lot of good programs around the country, have a very

327
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 1: good one here at UNLV where I live in Las Vegas.

328
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 1: I try and do a lot of work with them,

329
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 1: but they're taught from a manual. They have a manual,

330
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: a teaching manual, a business manual, this and that, And

331
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: they get upset with me because I always speak either

332
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 1: at their graduations or I get them out to my

333
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: places that once a year and talk to them and

334
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: I say, Tom, look the first thing you need to

335
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 1: do when you graduate from this course and I hold

336
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 1: their manual UF I said, this is what you're tested on.

337
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 4: This manual right here. Throw that in the garbage because.

338
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 1: You're never going to use it again because everything in

339
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 1: here is cookie cut. You're you're going to be a

340
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 1: club pro. You're going to be if you choose to

341
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 1: go here. You're going to do a lot more than

342
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 1: this test you just took from this book that tells

343
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 1: you how to do stuff, because you're going to have

344
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: to know how to deal with your members. You're going

345
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: to have to know how to deal with your ladies,

346
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: golf Association, your junior clinics, all these stuff. You're going

347
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,520
Speaker 1: to have to know that. And you hit the nail

348
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,400
Speaker 1: on the head when you said that. In this day

349
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,880
Speaker 1: and age, the club pro is asked to do a lot,

350
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 1: but is not compensated for all that he does, because

351
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: a good club can't function without a good head pro

352
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,600
Speaker 1: and then his staff that he brings on. The bigger

353
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 1: the club, the bigger the staff, I mean I was

354
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: just at wing Foot a few weeks ago playing and

355
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,200
Speaker 1: a member guests there, and I think Mike Gilmo must

356
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 1: have six or seven guys on his staff to take

357
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 1: care of all the stuff that take That's a big club.

358
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 1: It's thirty six holls, a lot of members. But even

359
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 1: on a smaller version of that, like you said a

360
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: minute ago, you know they don't want to because they're

361
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 1: paying Everybody used to be in the old days that

362
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: pay anything. You made all your money from me. First

363
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 1: of all, you started the year and get your club

364
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: storage money.

365
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 4: That helped you not.

366
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 1: Have to go to the bank and buy a lot

367
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,360
Speaker 1: of money to do your merchandising and so on so forth.

368
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,399
Speaker 1: You had your range programs, so that helped you had

369
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: to guarantee income. You don't have any of that anymore.

370
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 1: You have whatever they're paying you. And the question I

371
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,160
Speaker 1: would ask you and all the people that are watching that,

372
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: is that an incentive to do a good job. Maybe not,

373
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 1: It's an incentive to exist, But.

374
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 4: I don't know.

375
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,360
Speaker 8: Back to Cody Sinkler, Yeah.

376
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 4: Our PGM enrollment is down significantly. PGM programs are closing

377
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 4: clemsons I think closed. Florida State's closed. There are less

378
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 4: people that want to do this. It's because of the

379
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 4: work life balance we've gone so far this way and

380
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 4: the pay. I mean there are there are still jobs

381
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 4: paying twelve thirteen dollars an hour for atink golf profession

382
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 4: who we want to be in the PGM program, which

383
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 4: by the way, costs about ten grand to finish, and

384
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 4: we want them to have a bachelor's degree.

385
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 10: And there are jobs advertising twelve thirteen fourteen dollars an hour.

386
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 8: So it's not just a work life balance. It's never

387
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 8: not about the money, and the numbers across the board

388
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 8: are indeed dire. Here's Brad Sniper.

389
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 12: Going into the program, we were told I'm not sure

390
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 12: if this is still one hundred percent true or even

391
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 12: if it was at the time, but going into the program,

392
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 12: we were told that within five years of gaining certification,

393
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 12: within five years fifty percent of PGA pros out of

394
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 12: the business.

395
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,959
Speaker 8: And keeping a running tab of issues. It's work life balance, money,

396
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 8: and then there's the free access to information or instruction.

397
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 8: We've already heard from Kieran Kenwar of Mombai, India. She's

398
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 8: been in the US since two thousand and five. She

399
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 8: has a PhD in kinesiology. She's an LPGA Master instructor

400
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 8: and she's the chair of the golf department at Stanton

401
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 8: Universe Stein, Orange County, California. She's been teaching the game

402
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 8: for thirty three years.

403
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, they're underappreciated.

404
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 13: There's no value, and now in this day and age,

405
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 13: they don't make what they whatever they deserve because the

406
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 13: most popular teacher on this planet is YouTube, and the

407
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 13: attitude is, hey, I've been messed up by so many pros,

408
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 13: or why should I spend money when it's on YouTube?

409
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:22,920
Speaker 9: Nobody realized.

410
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 13: It's like even in medicine, where a doctor is such

411
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 13: a highly trained person, people a lot.

412
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 9: I mean, I'm one of them as well.

413
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 13: I look up some whatever I feel I have and

414
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 13: look it up on Internet and maybe self medicaid if

415
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 13: I can. So the value of somebody that's good is

416
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 13: also being lost because YouTube is the biggest instructor for

417
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 13: anything you want to know.

418
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 8: Which brings us to yet another battle back to Robin's

419
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 8: manly of Breckinridge, then Karen and then Butch. Is it

420
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 8: quite simply an awareness issue, Robins?

421
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 3: I think that if I had to put one, that

422
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 3: was probably one. But one A is still the money.

423
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 3: Where's the money going to come from? When you run the.

424
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 4: Budget of the golf course?

425
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: Where's the money going to come from to pay all

426
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 3: your assistants one hundred grand? And the assistant superintendent's you know,

427
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 3: at the top guys, the head pros and gms, depending

428
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 3: on how the course is set up, tend to be okay.

429
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 3: It's that second level that that I'm passionate about because

430
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 3: I was in that position so long. That has the

431
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 3: hardest time. And then so new people aren't coming in

432
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 3: as much applying for jobs because that's where they have

433
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: to start, and they know they've seen their buddies do it,

434
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: or they've been around it enough to know that, well,

435
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 3: I'm going to have to work eighty hours for forty

436
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,479
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars a year. And you know in this

437
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 3: day and age that that's a hard You know, it's

438
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 3: a single guy that's living with roommates. You can pull

439
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 3: that off, but how honors.

440
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 14: Are going to last?

441
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 13: There are many club pros who are not getting what

442
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 13: they deserve and they work long hours.

443
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 9: I mean, there's no denying that, whether they're good or not.

444
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 13: And they also a lot of clubs have the silly

445
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 13: thing that you bundle up a good teacher with selling.

446
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 13: You know, hey, sir, this red shirt looks great. You

447
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 13: should get six of them, you know that kind of thing.

448
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 13: I mean, why, why is the one person doing everything

449
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 13: if he or she is a good instructor. The clubs

450
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 13: don't realize the value of a good instructor and promote them.

451
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 13: There are some big corporations that now say you will

452
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 13: get fifty percent of what you.

453
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 9: Charge.

454
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 13: So I would have to go back if I worked

455
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 13: for a private club to what I charged in two

456
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 13: thousand and six when I first came to the US.

457
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 9: You know, how does that make sense?

458
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 13: And consider for the club that it's a pittance of

459
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 13: what compared to what they are making.

460
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 9: How does it help them to charge the poor pro

461
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 9: so much?

462
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 13: And how do they benefit versus If you have a

463
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 13: happy pro, he or she is getting people to dine

464
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 13: at the club and play other sports at the club,

465
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 13: hang out, do events, do other stuff.

466
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 9: You know. So it is it is true that club

467
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 9: pro's good.

468
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 13: If they're good, be the life and soul of a

469
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 13: golf course, and really, you know, bump up the popularity

470
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 13: of a golf club. But I don't think any management

471
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,479
Speaker 13: companies realize that, so then you have to be an

472
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 13: independent contractor, and then you have this whole other thing

473
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 13: called marketing, which becomes really like in many cases like

474
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 13: a salesman type of job, which not everybody's good at.

475
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 8: Where I'm at right now and having this conversation with you,

476
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 8: if you ask me what I what I what my

477
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 8: feedback is, and what I'm hearing, it's an awareness issue

478
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 8: on that very thing, which it's the very thing. It's

479
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 8: club to club, course to course, taking for granted the

480
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 8: person or people who are out their selflessly making an

481
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 8: effort to make their lives better. And there's only so

482
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 8: much time in a day, and there's only so many

483
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 8: days in a week that one person or a team

484
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 8: of small people or whatever the number is that can

485
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 8: execute on a day to.

486
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: Day basis absolutely absolutely, And you know, how do you

487
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: change that? How do you change the whole personality of

488
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: the business now compared to the personality of the business

489
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: I grew up in. I'm not saying they need to

490
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: go back to the way it was thirty fifty sixty

491
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: years ago. Time march is on, but this is where

492
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: we are, This is where we have arrived at this

493
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: position now. And there are so many golf pros in

494
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: the country today. Head pros. They can't break eighty. They

495
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: don't really know how to teach. Their job is to

496
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: sell shirts and hats and stuff and clubs and the

497
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 1: pro shops so the club can make money on it.

498
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: And they're paid a salary to do that or maybe

499
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: a small percent of it.

500
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 4: Well, that to me is not a golf pro. That's

501
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 4: a clerk.

502
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: That's a golf pro is a guy that handles all

503
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: the teaching and clinics and everything the Men's associating Women's Association.

504
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 4: The clubs have taken all that over.

505
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: Committees run all those things now, But yet the club

506
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: expects their golf pros and their assistant pros to make

507
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: sure everything's perfect. Everything has to be run right. We

508
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: need this is what we need to do. You go

509
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: to apply for a job today and you sit down

510
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: with a committee that's doing the interview and they're telling you,

511
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: this is what we need you to do. This is

512
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: the pro we want, this is what we want from

513
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: our pro time. What are you going to pay me, Well,

514
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: this is what we're paying to go. Really, you want

515
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: all that for this and that sounds cruel, but that's reality.

516
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: And I know I'm going to take a lot of

517
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: flak because I just said that. But I've been around

518
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: this business my whole life. I'm seventy nine years old.

519
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: I grew up in golf. I don't know anything else,

520
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: but God, I don't know how to do anything else.

521
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: I mean, if ever made GOFE legal, I'd have to

522
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: rob at seven to eleven to make a living do that.

523
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: Maybe I could be a used car salesman or something.

524
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: But this, I've been around this business my whole life.

525
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: I've watched it the way it has evolved and the

526
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: way it is kind of how we got to the

527
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: high point and then how everything started to go down.

528
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: And like I say it, please you pros. It works

529
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: so hard at your clubs. I'm not downgrading you. I

530
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: just want a better existence for you.

531
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 8: Here's Cody Sinkler. Is that what you would say first

532
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 8: and foremost is is this is an awareness issue.

533
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 4: It's it's an awareness issue. It's an issue where.

534
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 10: We've sort of taken this path of working all this

535
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 10: overtime and you know, eventually knowing it's going to pay off,

536
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 10: and it's just gone too far, and we've gotten to

537
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 10: the point where.

538
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: It's the norm. It's expected. It's expected for an assistant.

539
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 10: Golf professional to make thirty thousand dollars a year and

540
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 10: work I would say fifty hours is probably a conservative

541
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 10: average for this person. And they're expected to have a

542
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 10: college degree. They're expected to be either finish that PGM

543
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 10: program that you mentioned or working on that. It's just

544
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 10: coming from. It's hard when you look at there's so

545
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 10: many different facilities, right You have driving ranges, you have

546
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 10: public golf courses, you have your top golfs, golf techs,

547
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 10: and you have your high end private clubs.

548
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 4: They all have their different challenges.

549
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 10: You know, coming from a family owned public golf course

550
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 10: up in the Midwest where golf season's only six months

551
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 10: out of the year, they have revenue challenges. It's hard

552
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 10: for them to afford to pay an assistant pro fifty

553
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 10: thousand dollars a year. They might have to pay an

554
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 10: assistant pro ten dollars an hour because there just isn't

555
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 10: revenue the golf club. The golf course is probably not

556
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 10: making more than five six, seven hundred thousand dollars and

557
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 10: they have to maintain the whole golf course with that

558
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 10: in the private world, I definitely think it's an awareness

559
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 10: issue because there is more money, but I don't know

560
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 10: that decision makers quite realize what the golf pros are

561
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 10: doing on a week in, a week out basis or

562
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 10: a day in a day out basis.

563
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 4: So yeah, question, Yes, I think Shane's article.

564
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 10: Was a game changer for us, and I think it's

565
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 10: really started this conversation.

566
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 8: Shane Ryan. As you got going in the reporting and

567
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 8: you started talking to all these different people, some on

568
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 8: the record, some off the record with you know, and

569
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 8: for obvious reasons they wanted to they wanted to keep

570
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 8: their jobs that they did have. What's kind of some

571
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 8: of the major takeaways for you, you know now, even

572
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 8: to this day and probably the feedback that you've received,

573
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 8: what sticks in your mind, and whether it's a stat

574
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 8: or a fact or a figure or a quote or

575
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 8: a comment.

576
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question. I think the pessimistic thing

577
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 5: that sticks in my mind is that it felt like

578
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 5: I was learning, on one hand about an industry that

579
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 5: is fundamentally broken in terms of the working conditions that

580
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: club pros exist under, that there is so much demanded

581
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 5: of them that there is a system in place where

582
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 5: this was you know, I won't say it was fine

583
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 5: with people, but it was standard and it was expected.

584
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, a new generation is coming

585
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 5: up saying we don't want to work like this, and so,

586
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 5: you know, places are losing their pros. But they're faced

587
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 5: with a reality where to meet the to meet the

588
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 5: standards of what people how they want to work now

589
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 5: saying okay, maybe you know, you get a weekend off

590
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 5: once in a while, maybe only work fifty hours a

591
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 5: week instead of seventy or eighty. It would mean hiring

592
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 5: more people, and that's something that they don't want to

593
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 5: do for obvious reasons, right because that affects their budget

594
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 5: and their bottom line. But the reality is the clubs

595
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 5: who are not doing that are falling behind because either

596
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 5: they can't fill positions or when they do fill positions,

597
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 5: they're not filling them with the best people. And so

598
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 5: you have this unbelievable sort of schism between what is expected,

599
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 5: whether you're you know, the board at a club or

600
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 5: or the manager of a club versus what is the

601
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 5: reality of what club pros want to do with their jobs,

602
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 5: and so were the gap between it is so wide,

603
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 5: and it got worse during the pandemic, and it's hard

604
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 5: to see sometimes how it gets better.

605
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 8: For a deeper dive in context. Back to Chandler Withington.

606
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: So here, if you had to ask me, like, Okay,

607
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: what is at the heart of it, what is the

608
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: issue and what can be.

609
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: Done about it?

610
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: You know, I've spent probably three years having this conversation.

611
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: I spent an afternoon on PGM row at the show

612
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: on twenty asking the PGM leaders before COVID, like what's

613
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: going on with PGMs? Like what are the kids doing?

614
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: And how many understanding? If they're getting out?

615
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: Why?

616
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: And I think maybe you got quoted in the story.

617
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: I think Bobby Bruns from Methodists, said Chandler of The

618
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: reality is Google told these kids that this job sucks.

619
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: You know, the Internet came along and told them, like,

620
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, you can go work for Google, Amazon, work

621
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: nine to five, have weekends off, have benefits, out of school,

622
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: get paid double, probably play more golf.

623
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 4: Not have to move every six months.

624
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: And you know, until then, you know, people like myself,

625
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I was like, well, this is the job,

626
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: this isn't so bad. I can do this, Like heck,

627
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: this is great. But like the Internet told them that

628
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: this job sucks. So younger kids will look at this

629
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: and be like, this job sucks, so they've gone somewhere else.

630
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: In the PGM enrollment again is is beens steadily decreasing.

631
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: And I think the issue is the time expectation. So

632
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: who has the time expectation? Where is that coming from?

633
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: Every generation wants to hand down what their experience was,

634
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: So you know, if I had to work all these hours,

635
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: you're going to have to work all these hours, right,

636
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: And we've got to break that cycle. There's there's fixed mindset.

637
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: Fixed mindset is the way things have been or the

638
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: way things will always be, in the way that they

639
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: should be. So let's just maintain growth. Mindset is, well,

640
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: that's the way it was, but that's not the way

641
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: it'll always be. Let's find a smarter way to do things.

642
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 8: Here's Rick Riley, another voice from the first episode. Riley

643
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 8: is the director of golf at Wiltshire Country Club in

644
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 8: Los Angeles, where he has worked for over thirty years.

645
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 8: He's the son of Pat Riley, a former marine, and

646
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 8: in addition to being the pro at Annandale Golf Club

647
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 8: in Pasadena for thirty years, Pat was the legendary past

648
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 8: president of the PGA of America who competed in a

649
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 8: US Open PGA Championship and in nineteen ninety prior to

650
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 8: the PGA Championship at Shoal Creek, Riley used the timing

651
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 8: and leverage to make sure that all pg of America

652
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 8: championship venues had open membership policies. Pat Riley was inducted

653
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 8: into the PGA Hall of Fame in two thousand and five.

654
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 8: What's your advice to sort of young aspiring club pros?

655
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 8: What do you what do you tell him to look

656
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 8: out for? What do you tell him to do? What

657
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 8: do you tell them about the about the future of

658
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 8: the of this industry?

659
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 14: Well, I mean the golf industry. There's there's more people

660
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 14: playing golf than ever right now. You know the issue

661
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 14: right now I see with with in my situation, and

662
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 14: this is kind of across the board at all. You know,

663
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 14: when when COVID hit, you know, they're giving away free

664
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 14: money and I couldn't I couldn't hire guys, couldn't find

665
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 14: guys to hire. I mean, we're now, I'm don't wage

666
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 14: in California four years ago, it was twelve dollars it's

667
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 14: it's going to be eighteen or nineteen dollars. So I'm

668
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 14: looking at now I'm competing finding my my staff, competing

669
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 14: against Walmart. He's going to be paying twenty two, twenty

670
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 14: four bucks an hour. You know, the all the fast

671
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 14: food in California, it's going to be twenty two dollars

672
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 14: next year to work at a fast food restaurant. So

673
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 14: that just that just raises a bar for everyone. So,

674
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 14: you know, golf clubs, private clubs, public courses, daily fees,

675
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 14: they all have to be aware of that if they're

676
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 14: if they're looking for quality people, they're gonna have to

677
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 14: start paying a quality wage. And the guys are working

678
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 14: for me, they all like to play golf, they like

679
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 14: to teach, they like they like working in the business.

680
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 14: But you know, it's tough. I mean, there's there's some

681
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 14: there's there are some tough days the last couple of

682
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 14: years when you're short of staff and you're working sixty

683
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 14: hour weeks and everybody's on the golf course, everyone wants

684
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 14: to play and you're just i mean, you're just worn out.

685
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 14: At the end of the day, you got to kind

686
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 14: of say, okay, let me let me look at it.

687
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 14: I look at I'm hanging out here, this one hundred

688
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 14: acre property here in the middle of l A and

689
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 14: there's cars. That's like in a little ow east. So

690
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 14: you got to you got to look at all the

691
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 14: all the benefits of being in the business. It's not

692
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 14: necessarily going to make You're not going to make You're

693
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 14: not going to be a millionaire, but you're gonna you're

694
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 14: gonna have a good comfortable life. Put in the hours.

695
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 14: You're you're playing a game that's fun to play. People

696
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 14: are you know, people are rushing to get out of

697
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 14: work to go around, run around and play teen holes

698
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 14: and we're there all day long and it's it's uh,

699
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 14: it's a great place to be. But you know, once again,

700
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 14: you've got to put in the hours. You got to

701
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 14: have a love for it. I mean, my dad always said,

702
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 14: there's to be a good PGA professional you get five points,

703
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 14: you got to be a player. You got to be

704
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 14: a teacher, you got to be an administrator, you got

705
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 14: to be a rules expert. Probably most important, you have

706
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 14: to be a people person. You cannot survive on my

707
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 14: side of the business if you don't interact with people well

708
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 14: and take care of people.

709
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 8: So to recap the issues or battles being fought here,

710
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 8: it's work life balance, it's money, it's the Internet, it's awareness.

711
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 8: And if you don't love the game or have the

712
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 8: right skills to help others learn and love the game,

713
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 8: it's not for you. And then along came a global

714
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 8: pandemic which exacerbated all of the above. I asked Shane

715
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 8: Ryan to compare and contrast the idea that throughout COVID

716
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 8: club pros and PGA professionals can be compared to say, nurses. Now,

717
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 8: I get it, it's not the same. I'm not going

718
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 8: to make that mistake again. But in the sense that

719
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 8: both professions are at the core made up of selfless

720
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 8: and underappreciated individuals who, throughout the worst of COVID provided

721
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 8: a thankless task on the front lines of trying to

722
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 8: help the greater good, it seemed worth comparing and contrasting.

723
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 5: I think it is fair to say, you know, the

724
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 5: nurse thing, though, presents an interesting contrast because it doesn't

725
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 5: take a huge leap for you or I to imagine

726
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 5: what being a nurse at a hospital packed with COVID patients,

727
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 5: with all the stress and the hour and you know,

728
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 5: how damaging that would be. Right, that's simple to reach

729
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 5: that conclusion. I think what makes it harder for the

730
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 5: general public with club pros is that the initial instinct

731
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 5: is a little different. It's to say, Oh, these guys

732
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 5: get to work at a golf course, right, how great

733
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 5: is that? And so it's harder for us to imagine

734
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 5: that they are existing in conditions of similar stress where

735
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 5: they're in a service job essentially. Right, So they're dealing

736
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 5: with all these members and in the pandemic. Now there's

737
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 5: more members than ever or more participants than ever, They

738
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 5: have to work longer hours than ever, and it's not

739
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 5: as easy to understand the stress that they're under. But

740
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 5: we said, it got worse and it exposed a problem

741
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 5: that's been existing for a long time, but it magnified

742
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 5: it and exposed it. And I think, you know, things

743
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 5: like I wrote, and I'm certainly not the only one.

744
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 5: People are being far more outspoken on this now. And so, yeah,

745
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 5: it's come to the forefront of attention. And yeah, like

746
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 5: I said before, it gets to the question of now,

747
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 5: what do you do now? How do you fix it?

748
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 5: If you can fix it?

749
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 8: In the next episode of this series on the Club

750
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 8: pro crisis, we talk about possible solutions.

751
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: That's That's what I kind of see, is like there's

752
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: this generational gap. And I'm told Seth and Peprah twenty,

753
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: I said, you've got to get the leaders of CMAA,

754
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: the Club Managers Association, the same room with PGA, and

755
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: we need to understand each other better. You know, how

756
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: are things changing, who are we where now, what are

757
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: we going and what is crucial art to our success

758
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: and what will ultimately cripple us if we don't address it.

759
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 8: And later in the series, we hear from Brian Soulet

760
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 8: of Penn State's PGM program, Seth Waw, the pg of

761
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 8: America CEO, and Susie Whaley, the pg of America's first

762
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 8: female president.

763
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 15: Most of us really want to give back to our communities.

764
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 9: That's why we do what we do.

765
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 15: And we felt really strongly that we were doing that

766
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 15: in an unbelievable way. And I think we went home

767
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 15: feeling really good about ourselves, Like we.

768
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 4: Got to see people every day, which I.

769
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 15: Think was a gift for us and for our mental health.

770
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 15: But we also got to see people getting outside and

771
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 15: enjoying it. And maybe if we gave a little, a

772
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 15: little bit of joy in their day during this incredibly

773
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 15: scary time. We were doing the right thing. But what

774
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 15: that turned into was a perception that we were able

775
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 15: to keep those hours going, that we could work very

776
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 15: long hours, seven days a week, with smaller teams and

777
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 15: with the same amount of club participants, if not more

778
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 15: than we had had prior. And so it turned into

779
00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 15: this really enormous balance that was getting out of balance crisis.

780
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 15: I would say no, but it's taken us still. And

781
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 15: I say that loosely, us being PGA professionals and leadership,

782
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 15: to educate boards, to educate facilities, to educate municipalities, to

783
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 15: educate consumers as to what's going on. And while revenues

784
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 15: are increasing at facilities because of Golf's participation dramatically, many

785
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 15: facilities are using those revenue increases for capital expensuor scriptures.

786
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 15: And I happen to believe that your human capital is

787
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 15: your best capital.

788
00:39:51,920 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 7: Put another logoal the fire. Nobody here is given time

789
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:02,479
Speaker 4: Cat