Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references
Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: If an investigator at some agency reads this book, or
Speaker 2: a parent who has a lost child that they haven't
Speaker 2: seen for forty years, maybe there's a connection.
Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor
Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the
Speaker 1: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career,
Speaker 1: research for my many audio and book projects has taken
Speaker 1: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down
Speaker 1: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers,
Speaker 1: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious through
Speaker 1: crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both
Speaker 1: good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the
Speaker 1: unpublished details behind their stories. For more than a decade,
Speaker 1: a serial killer stalked teenage boys in Michigan. Ronald Lloyd
Speaker 1: Bailey was eventually caught, but the story became more complicated
Speaker 1: because of Bailey's experience at one of the state's most
Speaker 1: respected psychiatric hospitals. Author Rod Sadler tells me the story
Speaker 1: in his book depraved obsession. Tell me briefly about your
Speaker 1: background with law enforcement, because I do think you know,
Speaker 1: unlike other authors, this gives you such a unique perspective
Speaker 1: of a kind of a complicated case.
Speaker 2: Well, I was a police officer for thirty years here
Speaker 2: in Michigan. I started in nineteen eighty one. I worked
Speaker 2: for some small agencies for about the first five years
Speaker 2: of my career, and then I was hired by the
Speaker 2: Eton County Sheriff's Office, which is the west side of Lansing, Michigan,
Speaker 2: which is our state capitol. And I worked at Eton
Speaker 2: County for twenty five years until I retired in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: As a police officer working for Eaton County, I was
Speaker 2: promoted to the position of sergeant in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: I also was our police composite artist and our lead
Speaker 2: traffic crash investigator for all of our fatality crashes. And
Speaker 2: I was also an emergency manager. So I kind of
Speaker 2: had a storied career.
Speaker 1: I guess, if you will now, does that include investigating murders?
Speaker 1: I don't know what the role of sergeant would be.
Speaker 2: Well, as a road patrol sergeant, I supervised the shift
Speaker 2: certainly if I or a deputy responded to, let's say
Speaker 2: a homicide call, I would, as a sergeant, you know,
Speaker 2: make sure that the detectives are on the way and
Speaker 2: the scene is secure, and we have enough people to
Speaker 2: do this, that and the other things. So so I'm
Speaker 2: familiar with procedures and things like that with homicides.
Speaker 1: Set the scene for me, you know, if we're talking
Speaker 1: about southeast Michigan starting in the seventies, when there's no
Speaker 1: discovery made, because this goes on for a very long time,
Speaker 1: set the scene for when things start happening with these
Speaker 1: boys in the area. What is the area like and
Speaker 1: who are the people who were in that area.
Speaker 2: It doesn't start with this particular kidnapping, but this particular
Speaker 2: kidnapping is the highlight of the book, and that's the
Speaker 2: kidnapping of Sean Moore, a thirteen year old boy who
Speaker 2: lived just south of Brighton, Michigan. And Brighton, Michigan, for
Speaker 2: all intents and purposes, is about halfway between Detroit and Lancing.
Speaker 2: Lancing is more centralized, our state capital. Obviously, Detroit is
Speaker 2: the southeast corner of the state, and so about halfway
Speaker 2: between Lansing and Detroit is Brighton, Michigan. Brighton, Michigan at
Speaker 2: that time, in nineteen eighty five, i've was sort of
Speaker 2: a hub for young professionals and senior citizens that commuted
Speaker 2: either to Lancing or to Detroit to work. And it
Speaker 2: was a very quiet community, not a lot of crime
Speaker 2: and not a lot of violent crime especially, and that's
Speaker 2: where this all took place.
Speaker 1: I have to think, based on the demographic that you're
Speaker 1: talking about that this would be a low crime area
Speaker 1: in the seventies.
Speaker 2: It is a very low crime area. Yeah, it's between
Speaker 2: Lancing and Detroit. You know, Detroit huge city and Lancing
Speaker 2: the state capitol, busy city. But Brighton, Michigan really was
Speaker 2: you know, the downtown area was about six blocks long
Speaker 2: at what and I put right in the book, it
Speaker 2: wasn't unusual for if you're driving down the main street
Speaker 2: in Brighton to waive several times at people because everybody
Speaker 2: seemed to know everybody else.
Speaker 1: Tell me about Sean Moore, thirteen years old? What kind
Speaker 1: of kid is he?
Speaker 2: From what you know, Sean Moore is a very bright,
Speaker 2: thirteen year old boy who lived with his parents and
Speaker 2: his older brother. His older brother was about thirteen years
Speaker 2: older than he was Sean was set to start the
Speaker 2: seventh grade. It was summer break. He was just your
Speaker 2: typical bright teenager. He was liked by everybody. All of
Speaker 2: his teachers just loved him to death. And he was
Speaker 2: just a very bright, typical thirteen year old boy who
Speaker 2: had everything you can imagine a thirteen year old boy
Speaker 2: would have in his bedroom, baseball cards, a sign on
Speaker 2: his door that said this room is protected by an
Speaker 2: attack moose. You know, just silly things like that.
Speaker 1: This is thirteen year old boys in Michigan, I think exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he was just a very bright, young, well
Speaker 2: liked thirteen year old boy.
Speaker 1: Set the scene for me what happens before Sean disappears
Speaker 1: and win also.
Speaker 2: Well, it was Labor Day weekend in nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 2: August thirty first, I believe it was a Sunday, if
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, and Sean was doing some yard work
Speaker 2: with his dad. They needed to get to lawn mode,
Speaker 2: and during the evening they were going to go see
Speaker 2: a movie. The entire family was going to go see
Speaker 2: Back to the Future I think had just been released.
Speaker 2: Sean liked to use the riding lawnmower, but next to
Speaker 2: the house there was apparently a small hill or something,
Speaker 2: so his dad would mow that and then Sean would
Speaker 2: use the riding lawnmore and mow the rest of the lawn. Well,
Speaker 2: the riding lawnmower broke that afternoon, and so his dad
Speaker 2: began to try to fix it, and Sean was waiting
Speaker 2: and waiting and waiting, and he was hot. They'd been
Speaker 2: out in the sun for several hours, and so he
Speaker 2: asked his parents, Hey, can I jump on my bike
Speaker 2: and ride a mile up to the Pump and Pantry
Speaker 2: Party convenience store gas station. They gave him permission to
Speaker 2: They were very strict about him leaving the subdivision, but
Speaker 2: they did allow him to go, and so he jumped
Speaker 2: on his bike and he rode up to the Pump
Speaker 2: and Pantry Party store to buy an anw root peer.
Speaker 2: Some friends of his saw him at the store, saw
Speaker 2: him purchase the root per and that's where the killer
Speaker 2: first spotted him.
Speaker 1: Also tell me what happens next? When do his parents
Speaker 1: figure out that something's wrong.
Speaker 2: Well, after several hours, Sean hadn't returned, and his brother
Speaker 2: became quite concerned and decided to go look for him.
Speaker 2: Figured that maybe he was dawdling up at the up
Speaker 2: at the pump and pantry for some reason. And so
Speaker 2: as his brother leaves the subdivision and begins to drive
Speaker 2: up this service road called Whittemore Lake Road, or they
Speaker 2: also referred to it as old US twenty three because
Speaker 2: before the highway was put in, it was US twenty three.
Speaker 2: So he leaves the subdivision and literally less than a
Speaker 2: mile up the road, he can see police cars pulled
Speaker 2: to the side of the road, and he pulls up
Speaker 2: and he sees his brother's bike, and so he asks
Speaker 2: to speak to the Greenolk Township police officer on the scene,
Speaker 2: and he says, that's my brother's bike. He said, there
Speaker 2: must have been an accident, and the officer said said
Speaker 2: to him, he said, well, why do you think that
Speaker 2: there was an accident? He said, well, my brother's bike's here.
Speaker 2: You guys are all here. And it was then that
Speaker 2: they had to take him aside and say it it
Speaker 2: looks as if your brother has been abducted.
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Did somebody call and say we
Speaker 1: saw a man take this boy, because you know, bike
Speaker 1: laying there wouldn't be alarming to most people.
Speaker 2: Yes, actually, there were several witnesses, but the main witness
Speaker 2: was on the highway. Sean was riding northbound up to
Speaker 2: the party store. The witnesses were driving southbound on the
Speaker 2: freeway next to this service road. The first witness was
Speaker 2: trying to get to the University of Michigan Hospital because
Speaker 2: his daughter had been injured in a farm accident. So
Speaker 2: he was on his way to ann Arbor and he
Speaker 2: glanced over and he saw a man forcing a young
Speaker 2: boy back toward a vehicle, and for some reason, his
Speaker 2: mind clicked and he knew something was wrong. It was
Speaker 2: just an instinct, and he said to his fiance, who
Speaker 2: was in the vehicle with him, He said, I need
Speaker 2: to get to the next exit, and we need to
Speaker 2: get back and try to get a license plate number,
Speaker 2: because he saw that Sean was visibly upset and it
Speaker 2: didn't look right to him.
Speaker 1: Wow, all from just going he's driving, You got to think,
Speaker 1: what fifty sixty miles an hour? Maybe less, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, back in eighty five, the speed limited, I think
Speaker 2: the national speed limit was fifty five miles an hour
Speaker 2: on the freeway, and I I think that he said
Speaker 2: that his cruise control was set at like sixty and
Speaker 2: so yeah, So for an instant he glances over and
Speaker 2: sees this, and he knows he has to get back
Speaker 2: to try to get a license plate number. And by
Speaker 2: the time he hits the next exit and turns around,
Speaker 2: comes back up the service road, all he finds is
Speaker 2: the bike.
Speaker 1: Now, you say there was another witness or two also
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was another witness, and she was traveling northbound
Speaker 2: on the service road, and so she's coming up just
Speaker 2: as Sean is riding his bike, and he's looking over
Speaker 2: his shoulder at a man who's walking very fast toward him.
Speaker 2: And the bike was a little bit big for Sean.
Speaker 2: He hadn't quite grown into it, and so he was
Speaker 2: trying to steady the bike. His handlebars were moving back
Speaker 2: and forth as he glanced over his shoulder at the
Speaker 2: guy coming up to him. This particular witness felt something
Speaker 2: was a miss maybe, but what she really noticed was
Speaker 2: the jeep that the man had come from. He had
Speaker 2: gotten out of a nineteen eighty five AMC jeep. That's
Speaker 2: significant in this case because the first witness who glanced
Speaker 2: over and was trying to get back to the scene,
Speaker 2: thought that the vehicle involved was a GMC pickup the
Speaker 2: second witness who saw the jeep, she didn't get a
Speaker 2: chance to report it for a day or two, and
Speaker 2: so for that first day or two police were looking
Speaker 2: for a GMC pickup when they should have been looking
Speaker 2: for a jeep CJ seven. No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, was there anybody else who saw this?
Speaker 2: There were some other witnesses that came forward that were
Speaker 2: on the highway also that identified the killer later that
Speaker 2: saw the same thing that the first witness saw him,
Speaker 2: forcing a young boy back toward a jeep.
Speaker 1: Does everybody go to the media at this point and
Speaker 1: there's apbs happening everywhere? What's the response?
Speaker 2: Well, the first response is the first witness who sees
Speaker 2: the bike laying on the side of the road. He
Speaker 2: knows he's got to find a police officer, so he
Speaker 2: drives up to the next exit, which is the Pump
Speaker 2: and Pantry party store, and he's going to try to
Speaker 2: find a cop. Well, on the other side of the
Speaker 2: intersection is a Green Oak Township police officer by the
Speaker 2: name of Dave Ostrom, and Dave Ostrom is getting ready
Speaker 2: to get off his shift. He's got about forty five
Speaker 2: minutes left, and he looks up and there's a pickup
Speaker 2: facing him on the other side of the intersection, flashing
Speaker 2: his headlights at him. So he pulls up next to
Speaker 2: the pickup and the witness says, hey, I think I
Speaker 2: just saw a young boy getting kidnapped, and so Dave
Speaker 2: immediately gets him to the side of the road starts
Speaker 2: taking information, putting it out over the radio. And about
Speaker 2: a mile north of there is Livingston County detective who's
Speaker 2: working in uniform for the holiday weekend taking marine complaints,
Speaker 2: and he hears the information go out over the radio.
Speaker 2: So he gets on the radio and says, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: just a mile north of there. Have you been down
Speaker 2: to the scene yet, and Ostrom says no. He says,
Speaker 2: I'm still taking information. So Ed Moore, this detective from
Speaker 2: Livingston County, Michigan, runs down to the scene and finds
Speaker 2: the bike on the side of the road. So quickly
Speaker 2: information's put out over the radio. People are on the lookout,
Speaker 2: but they're on the lookout for a GMC pickup and
Speaker 2: not an AMC jeep. As the information's going out, the
Speaker 2: Michigan State Police, who have a post or a substation
Speaker 2: if you will, north of the scene, they get the information.
Speaker 2: They begin to call the media. And as soon as
Speaker 2: that story hit the media, the phone started ringing tips
Speaker 2: and people who thought they saw things, and so it
Speaker 2: was a quick response, a very quick response to get
Speaker 2: the media involved. And I think that's why this case
Speaker 2: was resolved so quickly.
Speaker 1: I have a jurisdiction question, and you were obviously the
Speaker 1: right person to ask. I usually don't ask stuff like this.
Speaker 1: So you've got Livingston County, right, and the detective and
Speaker 1: the man I can't remember what Dave's is he an officer?
Speaker 1: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's with a small township jurisdiction called the green
Speaker 2: Oak Township Police Department.
Speaker 1: So you've got two different departments working, and then the
Speaker 1: Michigan State Police in this particular case, Sean Moore, did
Speaker 1: everybody work well together? Because you said this was a
Speaker 1: quick resolution, not a good one, but a quick one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What happened was the following day they formed a
Speaker 2: task for us where officers from green Oak Township, Livingston County,
Speaker 2: the Michigan State Police, the FBI, the Brighton Police Department,
Speaker 2: all those agencies came together. And I have to tell
Speaker 2: you that it was really unprecedented because law enforcement back
Speaker 2: in the mid eighties, and prior to that, agencies held
Speaker 2: a lot of information very close and by that I
Speaker 2: mean they didn't share it a lot. In this particular case,
Speaker 2: you had local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies who
Speaker 2: came together as a task force and were desperately, literally
Speaker 2: desperately trying to find Sean Moore before something happened to him.
Speaker 2: They worked so closely together it was literally almost unheard
Speaker 2: of at that time.
Speaker 1: And this is the FBI who's getting involved.
Speaker 2: The FBI was also involved.
Speaker 1: Yes, what triggers that? Is that a missing child that
Speaker 1: is clearly the victim of abduction or is it there
Speaker 1: on the highway or what makes it okay for the
Speaker 1: FBI to come in?
Speaker 2: Well, I think because it was a kidnapping of a child.
Speaker 2: Michigan had gone through a series of child killings in
Speaker 2: Oakland County back in the late seventies, seventy six and
Speaker 2: seventy seven unsolved. There were four unsolved child abductions and
Speaker 2: murders where the children were literally held for several days
Speaker 2: before they were murdered. And that was fresh in the
Speaker 2: memory of a lot of people in Michigan. And so
Speaker 2: when the FBI gets you know, here's a report of
Speaker 2: a child being abducted, and they're absolutely certain it's not
Speaker 2: a random parental discipline situation where a father's taking his
Speaker 2: kid back home for misbehaving or whatever, then certainly, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're going to get involved immediately.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we have a task force now that involves
Speaker 1: several different departments, and then of course the FBI and
Speaker 1: the state police. And you've got the media alerted and
Speaker 1: now you've got all of these calls eighty five so
Speaker 1: there's no social media. You've got all these calls coming
Speaker 1: in to the police station with all of these tips.
Speaker 1: What does this task force tackle first to try to
Speaker 1: get Sean back, because I'm sure there's just incredible alarm,
Speaker 1: maybe even all over the state at this point.
Speaker 2: Well, they start to interview that reinterview the witnesses to
Speaker 2: get more detailed statements, and they also look at they
Speaker 2: contact the American Motors Corporation AMC. If you're very young,
Speaker 2: you probably don't realize that AMC made the Jeep at
Speaker 2: that time, they made the Pacer. I think they made
Speaker 2: the Gremlin, but they also made the Jeep. And so
Speaker 2: the task force contacted American Motors Corporation and they got
Speaker 2: a list of the vehicle identification numbers of every Jeep
Speaker 2: sold between like nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty five, and
Speaker 2: then they were in the process of taking those vehicle
Speaker 2: identification numbers and they would run those through the law
Speaker 2: Enforcement Information Network and find out who the owners were.
Speaker 2: And then the process would be to go to all
Speaker 2: of those owners and say, hey, where were you on
Speaker 2: Labor Day weekend? And that's how it all started the investigation.
Speaker 1: Really, how would it go? Rod? Now do you think
Speaker 1: it would be checking license plates at the digital electric
Speaker 1: tolls if the car passed through a toll, of course,
Speaker 1: looking at CCTV at the convenience store, anything like that.
Speaker 1: And at this point they just have the make of
Speaker 1: the car, the jeep, And I'm assuming the woman who
Speaker 1: came forward maybe was she able to say it looked
Speaker 1: like Michigan plates. This wasn't like a Florida plate or something.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, they were able to determine it was definitely
Speaker 2: a Michigan plate. And she was absolutely certain of the
Speaker 2: make and model of the jeep because her boyfriend had
Speaker 2: one that was identical to it. It was a Renegade model.
Speaker 2: It said Renegade right on the front of the jeep,
Speaker 2: and when the detectives took her to a jeep dealership,
Speaker 2: she pointed one out that was identical to it. Okay,
Speaker 2: so they were absolutely certain. Again, it took a couple
Speaker 2: of days for them to get that information, but once
Speaker 2: they had it, she was absolutely certain, no question about it.
Speaker 1: What other resources did they have at that time as
Speaker 1: far as locating a vehicle, Like I said, today you
Speaker 1: would be looking at toll records that would have come
Speaker 1: to you very quickly, CCTV stuff like that, But back
Speaker 1: then it was just simply you know, witnesses and then
Speaker 1: the database of registered owners of these jeeps.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, their hands really were almost tied, if you will.
Speaker 2: If you compare it to today's law enforcement in social media,
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, if there's a police agency or a
Speaker 2: public service agency out there that doesn't have a website
Speaker 2: or some way to relay information for notification to the public,
Speaker 2: way behind the times. Yet back then, you're exactly right,
Speaker 2: what did they have. They had the television, news, they
Speaker 2: had radio, you know, they had computers back then to
Speaker 2: relay information quickly to police agencies around the state and
Speaker 2: things like that. But still they were looking for the
Speaker 2: wrong car for two days, so it was very difficult.
Speaker 1: What did they come up with When they have this search,
Speaker 1: they're searching through what three or you were saying, three
Speaker 1: or four counties, including Livingstone, looking for the owner of
Speaker 1: this particular car.
Speaker 2: They are they're looking for the jeep. By this time,
Speaker 2: once the task force tasts a couple of days to
Speaker 2: get up and running, by that time, they've determined they're
Speaker 2: looking for a jeep and not a GMC pickup. And
Speaker 2: so they begin to run these vins through the law
Speaker 2: Enforcement Information Network. They're getting the names of the owners
Speaker 2: and they're contact and the owners. Well in the middle
Speaker 2: of this big list of vin owners jeep owners is
Speaker 2: the name of the killer and he's just another person
Speaker 2: on the list that they've got to go track down
Speaker 2: and interview. But what happens is as they're doing that,
Speaker 2: the task force is up and run. In twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven and about eleven o'clock at night, the FBI
Speaker 2: is man in the task force headquarters and they get
Speaker 2: a phone call from the Livonia Police Department. And Lavonia
Speaker 2: is a suburb of Detroit, and the Livonia officer says
Speaker 2: to the FBI agent, he says, hey, you guys really
Speaker 2: need to take a look at this guy. We've got
Speaker 2: a guy here in our jurisdiction that does that exact
Speaker 2: same thing. He kidnaps kids off their bicycles, he sexually
Speaker 2: assaults them, and you really need to take a look
Speaker 2: at him. I'm paraphrasing, but basically that's the information that
Speaker 2: he gives him. So the FBI agent Jess Lopez is
Speaker 2: his name. I interviewed him for the book. He said, yeah,
Speaker 2: he said, let's not wait, let's go track him down
Speaker 2: right now. So they go track down this guy that
Speaker 2: Lavonia Police Department has a record of and they interview him,
Speaker 2: and that's when it all begins to unravel.
Speaker 1: So Lavogna police tell the task force, we have this guy.
Speaker 1: You need to look at him. He snatched kids, you know,
Speaker 1: off bikes off the street and assaults them. How many
Speaker 1: days into this is that happening? And I'm also wondering
Speaker 1: how many people do they have to call about this?
Speaker 1: AMC JEEP.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know how big the list was, but
Speaker 2: I guess you could imagine it's got to be probably
Speaker 2: a thousand people or more. I would think they decided
Speaker 2: to go interview the killer based on what Lavonia has said.
Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to them, he's already been interviewed by somebody on
Speaker 2: the task force earlier that particular day, and this was
Speaker 2: within three or four days after the kidnapping. It happened
Speaker 2: very quickly, it really did.
Speaker 1: And it was about the fact that he's an owner
Speaker 1: of an AMC jeep exactly.
Speaker 2: He was just a name on the list.
Speaker 1: You know what I wondered when you were talking about that.
Speaker 1: You know, in a second, we can give his name
Speaker 1: and you can give me some information. But I was thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, his last name starts with a B, and
Speaker 1: I wondered if they just alphabetized that list, and he
Speaker 1: came up pretty early, and that's why he got interviewed early,
Speaker 1: because he's, you know, at the top of the alphabetized list.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how it worked, but.
Speaker 2: Well, you may be exactly right, because the vehicle identification
Speaker 2: number is all they had for that list of jeep owners,
Speaker 2: and so maybe they did. You know, I never thought
Speaker 2: to ask them that, but you may very well be right.
Speaker 2: You know, if his last name began with a Z,
Speaker 2: maybe they wouldn't have resolved this so quick.
Speaker 1: So tell me what happens and tell me just sort
Speaker 1: of initially, who is this guy. What's the impression that
Speaker 1: they get when they go to see him.
Speaker 2: Well, his name, the killer's name is Ron Bailey. And
Speaker 2: Ron Bailey had been interviewed that afternoon before the Lavonia
Speaker 2: Police contacted the Task Force, he'd been interviewed by a
Speaker 2: couple of detectives and he told them Labor Day weekend,
Speaker 2: he said, I was up in Caseville, Michigan. I was
Speaker 2: fishing with a friend. He has a boat up there
Speaker 2: and a cabin and that's where I was. And so
Speaker 2: they took his information and they were going to follow
Speaker 2: up later with his friend a list of things to
Speaker 2: do if you will. And then later that night, Lavonia
Speaker 2: Police contacts the Task Force and says, hey, we've got
Speaker 2: this guy named Ron Bailey who lives here in Lavonia.
Speaker 2: His emo is to snatch kids off bicycles and sexually
Speaker 2: assault them and then release them. And so the police
Speaker 2: Jess Lopez, the FBI Special Agent in charge work in
Speaker 2: the Task Force, that night he said, let's go talk
Speaker 2: to him right now. They go to the Bailey home
Speaker 2: in Lavonia. Ron Bailey's dad answers the door. It's about
Speaker 2: midnight now, and he says, no, Ron's not here, He's
Speaker 2: at a friend's house. The task force guys, they head
Speaker 2: over to the friend's house and sure enough, Ron Bailey's
Speaker 2: jeep is there, so they wait. They wait for Ron
Speaker 2: Bailey to leave, and when he leaves, they stop him
Speaker 2: and he becomes arrogant. He starts waving a business card
Speaker 2: from a trooper or detective around, saying, hey, I already
Speaker 2: talked to you guys this afternoon. I told him I
Speaker 2: was up in case Phil. That's my story and I'm
Speaker 2: sticking to it. And they said, well, we really just
Speaker 2: want to verify your story. You know, we're not accusing you,
Speaker 2: we're just following up trying to verify it. Why didn't
Speaker 2: you come on back to the Lavonia Police Department with us?
Speaker 2: So he agrees to do that, and what Ron Bailey
Speaker 2: doesn't know is when he leaves with the officers, a
Speaker 2: couple other officers interview his friend and his friend says,
Speaker 2: he wasn't in Case filled with me. He asked me
Speaker 2: to lie for him. Well, the gig is up now,
Speaker 2: so they put the pressure on him back at the
Speaker 2: Lavonia Police Department and they feel they have enough literally
Speaker 2: maybe to arrest him. Wow, he's yeah, so he's really
Speaker 2: not free to go at that point. And they decide
Speaker 2: after an interview with him, and he maintains that he
Speaker 2: was with his friend, and they hit him up with
Speaker 2: the fact that his friend said he wasn't there. He says, well,
Speaker 2: that's my story and I'm not changing it. So they
Speaker 2: take him up back up to Brighton now and they
Speaker 2: decide to do a police lineup with him. It's now
Speaker 2: early in the morning, and they bring in some witnesses
Speaker 2: that witnessed the abduction of Sean and none of them
Speaker 2: can pick him.
Speaker 1: Out of the line because they're driving right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's early in the morning. Nobody can pick him out,
Speaker 2: and so they have to release him. But what Ron
Speaker 2: Bailey doesn't know is that they also put him under surveillance.
Speaker 2: They have a surveillance team following him. So that's when
Speaker 2: it all begins to come together.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, just playing the skeptic on some
Speaker 1: of this, So Hismo has been snatching kids, you know,
Speaker 1: off bikes. We don't know anything yet about the legal
Speaker 1: process with that. Did he get caught, did he serve time?
Speaker 1: You know, was he institutionalized all of that? But you
Speaker 1: have this rap sheet and you've got the jeep, and
Speaker 1: is that enough to hold him when he cannot be
Speaker 1: identified and there's of course no CCTV or anything else.
Speaker 1: Can he just say listen, I've made a bunch of mistakes.
Speaker 1: I happened to have this jeep. What else you have
Speaker 1: on me?
Speaker 2: Well, they had enough to hold the jeep. After they
Speaker 2: released him, when he was brought to the Briton Post,
Speaker 2: they look through his wallet. They photographed everything in his
Speaker 2: wallet so that they would have a record of it
Speaker 2: before giving it back to him. And what they noticed
Speaker 2: in there was a receipt for a tow truck a
Speaker 2: toe and so Jess Lopez, after Bailey was released early
Speaker 2: in the morning, he goes and tracks down Bailey's well.
Speaker 2: He tracks down the record company for the receipt and says, hey,
Speaker 2: what is this And they said, oh, yeah, it was
Speaker 2: a jeep that we pulled out of. It was stuck
Speaker 2: in some four wheel driving. They'd been off roading. They said,
Speaker 2: we didn't recognize who the driver was, but we recognized
Speaker 2: the girl with him. Her name is deb Chesney and
Speaker 2: that's a girl that we knew. One of them recognized her.
Speaker 2: So Lopez then tracks down Deb Chesney that day and
Speaker 2: Deb Chesney is Ron Bailey's pseudo girlfriend, the interviewer, and
Speaker 2: they said, hey, where was Ron during Labor Day weekend?
Speaker 2: She said, well, he was up at our family cabin
Speaker 2: in Gladwin, now Caseville. Just to give you a perspective
Speaker 2: on where Caseville is in Michigan, it's in the Thumb
Speaker 2: area on Saginaw Bay if you're familiar with Michigan at all,
Speaker 2: and then Gladwin is literally up in north central Michigan,
Speaker 2: so about one hundred or more miles away from Caseville.
Speaker 2: So Deb says, yeah, he was up at our family cabin.
Speaker 2: He borrowed the key from us, and so Jess Lopez
Speaker 2: knew immediately at that point that's probably where they would
Speaker 2: end up finding Shawn Moore's body.
Speaker 1: Did she suspect anything? Was she surprised? Alarmed? What was
Speaker 1: her reaction?
Speaker 2: She was completely surprised, completely surprised. You know, It's funny.
Speaker 2: Ron Bailey's dad as soon as the story about the
Speaker 2: kidnapping and the jeep hit the airwaves, hit the television,
Speaker 2: in the radio, and the newspapers, he suspected his own
Speaker 2: son and confronted him about it, and Ron live told
Speaker 2: his dad. He said, well, don't worry, dad, I was
Speaker 2: up in Caseville and there's thousands of people that owned
Speaker 2: jeep's like mine.
Speaker 1: How old was Ron at the time? Is it twenty two?
Speaker 1: Am I remembering?
Speaker 2: Right? Twenty three?
Speaker 1: I believe so, young man. And we'll learn a little
Speaker 1: bit more about him after we find out about Sean.
Speaker 1: So they find out about Deb's family's cabin that supposedly
Speaker 1: Ron was up there by himself, and they go up.
Speaker 1: They go rushing up to the cabin hoping to find
Speaker 1: Sean alive, because that has been, as far as they know,
Speaker 1: the case with all of the other boys that have
Speaker 1: been snatched by Ron before.
Speaker 2: Right correct, Ron's history is criminal history has always been
Speaker 2: to release his victims, and so in this case they did.
Speaker 2: They immediately flew up to Gladwin hoping maybe they would
Speaker 2: find Sean alive. They found an empty cabin at that point,
Speaker 2: and so they collected a little bits and pieces of
Speaker 2: evidence and flew back that same day, and they were
Speaker 2: going to organize at that point a search party up
Speaker 2: in Gladwin for that particular weekend to search the area
Speaker 2: around the cabin for Sean's body.
Speaker 1: Did they find anything incriminating in the cabin?
Speaker 2: They did when they actually did a search ward on
Speaker 2: the cabin. Later they found a palm print that belonged
Speaker 2: to Sean and it was on this I believe it
Speaker 2: was found on the stove handle, a partial palm print.
Speaker 1: So they start searching around Gladwin and where this cabin is.
Speaker 1: Give me the time frame again. It's a Sunday when
Speaker 1: he is kidnapped, Labor Day weekend. Where are we now?
Speaker 1: When they find the cabin and they're thinking that Sean,
Speaker 1: if he's not alive, is somewhere around here, or hopefully
Speaker 1: if he is.
Speaker 2: Alive, it's about two weeks later.
Speaker 1: His parents must have just been losing their minds. That's
Speaker 1: awful on his brother.
Speaker 2: Did they were? His brother was working toward becoming an attorney.
Speaker 2: His parents were assigned you could call them victim advocates.
Speaker 2: They're what law enforcement uses today, but back then they
Speaker 2: were literally Dave Ostrom was assigned to be their liaison,
Speaker 2: law enforcement liaison, so he was with them during the
Speaker 2: evening hours and during the daylight hours. The Michigan State
Speaker 2: Police detective was assigned to be with them also, and
Speaker 2: they were simply there to do whatever the family needed
Speaker 2: to have done, if it was to change a light bulb,
Speaker 2: if it was to if they had questions, just anything
Speaker 2: that they needed to be done. They wanted somebody from
Speaker 2: law enforcement with them. The subdivision was blocked off so
Speaker 2: that the news media wouldn't bother him. They were going
Speaker 2: through help. There's no question about it. Yeah, no question
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Did you interview Dave for the book?
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: Did Dave tell you what they were thinking during this
Speaker 1: two week period, particularly when they find out Ron Bailey's
Speaker 1: with young boys. Are they holding out hope that he's
Speaker 1: still alive or is this this sort of like grief
Speaker 1: where it doesn't look good from their point of view either.
Speaker 2: I would describe it more as the grief where it
Speaker 2: doesn't look good, like they're kind of preparing for that.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that inevitable notification. That's the sense that I
Speaker 2: got from Dave. I have to tell you. I was
Speaker 2: able to briefly, very briefly, interview the other MSP detective
Speaker 2: that was assigned to them. He ended up literally within
Speaker 2: a month of me talking to him, he passed away.
Speaker 2: He had decided that he really was hesitant about being
Speaker 2: a part of this not because he was being rude,
Speaker 2: but because he felt that he might be betraying the
Speaker 2: confidence of the More family. Even though mister and Missus
Speaker 2: Moore had been dead for several years, he still felt
Speaker 2: that he might be betraying their confidence, and so he said,
Speaker 2: I really would rather not take part in this, he said,
Speaker 2: but he did put me in touch with Chris Hansen
Speaker 2: from the Predator series. Chris Hansen was a young reporter
Speaker 2: at that time, and he and this detective had become
Speaker 2: very good friends as a result of the Sean mar
Speaker 2: case and had been friends for forty years. And so
Speaker 2: he said, I'll put you in touch with Chris and
Speaker 2: he'll be sort of the liaison between you and me.
Speaker 2: And so that was very helpful.
Speaker 1: You know, just as a quick side note, because I
Speaker 1: want to get back to Sean's story. But in true crime,
Speaker 1: we do often focus in on the mistakes that the
Speaker 1: police make, whether they're unintentional or intentional, or covers of racism,
Speaker 1: everything that we can think of. And so even though
Speaker 1: this is an awful story that you're unfolding, it is
Speaker 1: really nice to hear how compassionate and competent the police
Speaker 1: are in this particular case. I just don't get a
Speaker 1: lot of those, and so this is I know they're there,
Speaker 1: and they're just not cases that I were poured on.
Speaker 1: But it feels good to be able to say that.
Speaker 1: It sounds like so far they're doing everything they possibly can,
Speaker 1: including caring for the family in this case.
Speaker 2: Oh, they absolutely were. They absolutely were. I can't find
Speaker 2: any fault on the part of law enforcement in this case.
Speaker 2: Everybody clicked, everybody worked toward one goal, and that was
Speaker 2: to hopefully find shank life.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they're searching around the cabin and what is
Speaker 1: that like? Is that a grid search? Exact situation? Thank
Speaker 1: goodness it's in September, so that it's not I know,
Speaker 1: it just snows like heck out there. So I'm glad
Speaker 1: it's in September and not bad weather.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it happened quick. They had almost a task force,
Speaker 2: I guess, if you will, up in Gladwin, troopers from
Speaker 2: all around the area, police from all around the area,
Speaker 2: and they assigned teams to search particular areas in a grid.
Speaker 2: And there was a trooper from the Pontiac Post who
Speaker 2: was up there to help in the search, and he
Speaker 2: and his partner were assigned particular area. I believe it
Speaker 2: was about three miles from the cabin, and they could
Speaker 2: see tracks kind of going back into the woods. This
Speaker 2: is the here On National Forest. So you've got a huge,
Speaker 2: huge forest area and dirt roads, sandy soil, if you will,
Speaker 2: a lot of ferns going alongside the road, a lot
Speaker 2: of forestry trees. And they see some tracks going kind
Speaker 2: of off the road, and above it they see some
Speaker 2: bird circling and the one says to the other trooper,
Speaker 2: He says, what kind of birds are those? And the
Speaker 2: troopers says vultures. And so they started literally walking following
Speaker 2: this two track and they've found Sean's body about seventy
Speaker 2: five feet off the road.
Speaker 1: So not buried or what was the condition like of
Speaker 1: his body.
Speaker 2: I would just say that being out in a forest
Speaker 2: with wild animals for two weeks, there was a lot
Speaker 2: of decomposition, and I'll just leave it at that. Really
Speaker 2: it was a grizzly site.
Speaker 1: Could they gleam any details of what happened, either how
Speaker 1: long was he alive or certainly cause of death or
Speaker 1: anything like that trauma?
Speaker 2: There was no evidence of any trauma. There was no
Speaker 2: cause of death determined because of the decomposition. However, in
Speaker 2: the blood work that was done at the autopsy, they
Speaker 2: were able to determine that Sean had an amount of
Speaker 2: I'm just going to call it a sedative, if you will,
Speaker 2: and over the counter sedative that was much higher than
Speaker 2: it should have been if he had been taking it
Speaker 2: for a cold, if he will, or for allergies or whatever.
Speaker 2: And so that in and of itself, combined with the
Speaker 2: fact that I guess the totality of the circumstances around
Speaker 2: his disappearance, combined with that that the medical examiner was
Speaker 2: able to say that it was a homicide, even though
Speaker 2: no cause of death was determined.
Speaker 1: So they find Sean's body and they go back to Bailey,
Speaker 1: who they held the car. But they did they hold him.
Speaker 1: I couldn't remember what you told me.
Speaker 2: They did not initially hold him. He had once they
Speaker 2: released him. Within I think that afternoon. Back in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty five, you could buy a plane ticket without an
Speaker 2: ID and with cash. He went to Detroit Metro Airport
Speaker 2: and he bought a ticket to Florida, which is where
Speaker 2: he had lived a couple of years prior to that.
Speaker 2: For just a year or two and then he fled
Speaker 2: Florida back then because he was molested boys down there,
Speaker 2: So he fled back to Florida basically with that afternoon.
Speaker 2: But MSP was the surveillance team was right within. As
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, Tom Monahan, the owner of the
Speaker 2: Detroit Tigers and Domino's Pizza, donated his private jet for
Speaker 2: the surveillance team to fly down and beat the the
Speaker 2: commercial flight down there because they knew where he was headed,
Speaker 2: and they picked him up there. Once Shawn's body was found,
Speaker 2: the police were able to immediately issue a warrant for
Speaker 2: the arrest for kidnapping, and then once the identification was
Speaker 2: made at the autopsy, they charged him with murder. But
Speaker 2: they had enough to move in and arrest him once
Speaker 2: they found Shawn's body, and when they did, he had
Speaker 2: fled into the woods in Florida. So there was a
Speaker 2: two day man hunt in Marion County, Florida before they
Speaker 2: finally captured him and brought him back to Michigan.
Speaker 1: At that point, as far as they know, I know
Speaker 1: they're looking at his record and everything. What do they
Speaker 1: think happened from the time he had a very troubled
Speaker 1: childhood and just was it felt like was in trouble
Speaker 1: from age ten or so on. What is the record
Speaker 1: as far as they knew at that point of what
Speaker 1: Ron had done, which you know, it sounds like so
Speaker 1: far had been kidnapping young boys and assaulting them, traumatizing
Speaker 1: them and then releasing them. How many people are we
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 2: Well, at his trial he admitted to over the previous
Speaker 2: thirteen years having kidnapped as many as twelve to fifteen boys.
Speaker 2: He had forgotten how many. The Lavonia Police Department's main
Speaker 2: case against him was a case back when he was
Speaker 2: sixteen where he had kidnapped a boy, sexually assaulted him,
Speaker 2: choked him out to the point where he thought the
Speaker 2: kid was dead, and threw him in the bushes. He
Speaker 2: was charged with that case. He was charged with kidnapping,
Speaker 2: sexual assault, and attempted murder At the age of sixteen.
Speaker 2: He was sent to the Hawthorne Psychiatric Hospital in mid Michigan,
Speaker 2: and he was confined there. The judge had a choice,
Speaker 2: should I send him to prison as a sixteen year
Speaker 2: old charged as an adult, or should I send him
Speaker 2: maybe to get some help, because he wouldn't get any
Speaker 2: help in prison, And so they chose to confine him
Speaker 2: to the psychiatric hospital at Hawthorne as a juvenile, and
Speaker 2: that's where he met doctor Tombo.
Speaker 1: So we'll pick up now with his experience there. So
Speaker 1: first of all, will you give me some clarity on
Speaker 1: as a sixteen year old when he sent to the
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital, what are the expectations of him. Is it
Speaker 1: that he will be treated successfully somehow some way and
Speaker 1: released into society or is this a facility where he
Speaker 1: would conceivably spend the rest of his life if he
Speaker 1: doesn't make some sort of progress that they can see.
Speaker 2: No, the goal was treatment, rehabilitation and return him to
Speaker 2: his home. That's what their goal was. Sadly it didn't
Speaker 2: work well.
Speaker 1: He encounters doctor Jose Tombo, who you had mentioned before,
Speaker 1: and this was a very well respected psychiatrist I think
Speaker 1: think in Michigan.
Speaker 2: He was. Doctor Tombo had been with the Hawthorne and
Speaker 2: Northfield Regional Psychiatric Hospital in Northfille, Michigan for several years,
Speaker 2: very highly respected among his peers, among his colleagues, among
Speaker 2: some of the patients. But some of the patients also,
Speaker 2: it was later found out, were being sexually abused by
Speaker 2: doctor Tombo, and as it turns out, Ron Bailey was
Speaker 2: one of those. Ron Bailey claimed at his trial that
Speaker 2: doctor Tombo had forced him into a sexual relationship and
Speaker 2: that caused him to be insane at the time that
Speaker 2: he kidnapped Shawan Moore. It didn't work, though the jury
Speaker 2: was smarter than that. There was also a second case.
Speaker 2: While the police were putting together the Shawn Moore case,
Speaker 2: the Ferndale Police and the Task Force began to look
Speaker 2: at similar kidnapping and abduction in nineteen four, a year
Speaker 2: before Shawn Moore was kidnapped, and in that case, Kenny Myers,
Speaker 2: a twelve year old boy was kidnapped and sexual assaulted
Speaker 2: and his body was found about twenty miles away the
Speaker 2: next day, and that case had gone cold for a year.
Speaker 2: And then in addition to that, there was another boy
Speaker 2: a month before Kenny Myers was kidnapped who had been
Speaker 2: kidnapped and sexual assaulted and let go and he was
Speaker 2: able to identify Ron Bailey. So in the end he
Speaker 2: had the Shawn Moore case, the Kenny Myers case, and
Speaker 2: the case that this other kid had identified Ron Bailey
Speaker 2: of kidnapping and sexual assaults. So basically Ron had three
Speaker 2: separate court jurisdictions that were prosecuting him.
Speaker 1: Kenny Myers, you said he was kidnapped from Ferndale? Is
Speaker 1: that right correct? How close is that to Brighton where
Speaker 1: Sean was kidnapped.
Speaker 2: I would say maybe thirty miles.
Speaker 1: And as Lavonia like in between those places.
Speaker 2: Lavonia is south of Ferndale, but it's another suburb of
Speaker 2: Detroit and it's not that far away, maybe ten or
Speaker 2: fifteen miles.
Speaker 1: So can you give me a summary of what happens
Speaker 1: with Kenny Myers because we have such a kind of
Speaker 1: deep understanding of Sean Moore and his family and everything.
Speaker 1: What can you tell about Kenny? Is it a similar situation,
Speaker 1: nice family, all of that.
Speaker 2: It is absolutely a textbook identical to the Shawn Moore case.
Speaker 2: Kenny Myers is out riding his bike down the John
Speaker 2: r Is the street that it's called in the Detroit area,
Speaker 2: Ferndale area, and he's looking for a job stocking shelves
Speaker 2: in a party store. Ron Bailey sees him. He follows him,
Speaker 2: just like he did in the Shawn Moore case. A
Speaker 2: year later. He takes the opportunity to distract him by
Speaker 2: stopping to talk to him. Then he backs into a
Speaker 2: parking lot, cuts Kenny Myers off his bike, grabs him
Speaker 2: off his bike, forces him into his car, and leaves.
Speaker 2: A witness saw it happen. She thought it was a
Speaker 2: parent disciplining a child, and so she didn't say anything initially.
Speaker 2: So that literally the method of operation is identical to
Speaker 2: the Shawn Moore case. Kenny Myers comes from another great family.
Speaker 2: You know, the mother's divorce, but she's remarried. They had
Speaker 2: moved from Warren, Michigan to Ferndale just two weeks before that.
Speaker 2: They were just settling into their new home.
Speaker 1: That's awful. I was thinking when you were describing Shawn's kidnapping.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I wonder, like how many times his
Speaker 1: dad lets it run through his head, like if the
Speaker 1: freaking lawnmower hadn't broken. If I don't know, I mean
Speaker 1: that must as a parent, it just must be awful.
Speaker 1: If we had moved there, I think you would have
Speaker 1: a tendency to blame blame yourself. I hope that doesn't
Speaker 1: happen with the other parents, but I could just see
Speaker 1: being in their shoes like that.
Speaker 2: Well, as long as you'd mentioned the parents, let me
Speaker 2: mention one thing real quick. The positive that came out
Speaker 2: of this book because people don't want to read about childkillers.
Speaker 2: They really don't. It's a difficult subject to talk about.
Speaker 2: It's a difficult subject to research. But I think that
Speaker 2: it was important to write this book number one because
Speaker 2: the More family and the Meyers family both took their
Speaker 2: tragedy and turned it into something positive. And they really did,
Speaker 2: and you'll read about that in the book. And beyond that,
Speaker 2: I think there are other cases out there.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask about the Oakland County. You
Speaker 1: said there were four unsolved child murders in Oakland County.
Speaker 1: Is there a possibility he can be linked to those?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a suspicion that some investigators have. Without going
Speaker 2: into a lot of detail, because I need to emphasize
Speaker 2: that this book is not about the Oaklan County childkillings,
Speaker 2: although chapter one that's what I talk about is the
Speaker 2: Oaklan County childkillings to kind of set the stage because
Speaker 2: people were still on edge about those when Sean Wore
Speaker 2: was kidnapped and Kenny Myers was kidnapped. And then in
Speaker 2: the end of the book, chapter titled Unanswered Questions, we
Speaker 2: address that particular issue. Is there a possibility that somehow
Speaker 2: Ron Bailey could be tied to the Oaklan County child killings.
Speaker 2: I think there's some compelling some we'll call it conjecture.
Speaker 2: I don't know. The theory has always been in the
Speaker 2: Oakle County childkillings that it was a person or a
Speaker 2: group of people that over eighteen months kidnapped these four
Speaker 2: children and held them for several days before murdering them.
Speaker 2: And one of the theories was did they use someone
Speaker 2: who could be used as a lure to coax kids
Speaker 2: near the kidnappers. Well, Ron Bailey would have been seventeen
Speaker 2: years old at the time, blonde hair, very young looking,
Speaker 2: and so there's there's suspicion there that maybe there's a
Speaker 2: As a police officer, I never worked on the Oakland
Speaker 2: County child killing cases because I worked in mid Michigan,
Speaker 2: but I interviewed some of the investigators and I can
Speaker 2: tell you that they absolutely believe that there could be
Speaker 2: some sort of Italie in.
Speaker 1: Do they have any biological evidence that they can use
Speaker 1: anything for DNA.
Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of a long story, but they do
Speaker 2: have a DNA profile of the killer. They have a
Speaker 2: hair from a vehicle taken from a suspect they interviewed
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six. They have a hair from one
Speaker 2: of the male victims, and they have a hair from
Speaker 2: a second male victim, and all of those hairs came
Speaker 2: from the same person. I will tell you that they
Speaker 2: do not match Ron Bailey, but there's still a suspicion
Speaker 2: that Ron Bailey could somehow be involved.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too much into Oakland, but
Speaker 1: I do find this fascinating. Were the hairs in places
Speaker 1: where a random male hairs or a dad's hair or
Speaker 1: something like that shouldn't be And that's why they feel
Speaker 1: like it's the killer.
Speaker 2: The hair that was taken off Mark Stebbens's body at
Speaker 2: the autopsy and the hair that was taken off of
Speaker 2: Timothy King's body. Now these two murders were like eighteen
Speaker 2: months apart. Those matched the hair off the vehicle that
Speaker 2: was of a suspect that was interviewed in nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 2: but they don't belong to that suspect. So that suspect
Speaker 2: had someone in his vehicle whose hair ended up in
Speaker 2: the vehicle and on Mark Stebbin's body and on Timothy
Speaker 2: King's body.
Speaker 1: So ultimately he wants to he's issuing it an insanity plea.
Speaker 1: He wants to go to a psychiatric facility. His defense,
Speaker 1: it sounds like you were saying, is pointing to doctor Tombo,
Speaker 1: who it sounds like had been suspected and disciplined, and
Speaker 1: it looks like he was. Did he end up being disbarred?
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I read that there were six accusations
Speaker 1: against him, so it wasn't just Ron Bailey saying this
Speaker 1: to get out of anything, right.
Speaker 2: He was eventually in the state of Michigan, took his
Speaker 2: medical license. The defense team for Ron Bailey wanted doctor
Speaker 2: Tombo to testify, and doctor Tombo disappeared. Conveniently, they can't.
Speaker 2: They can't find him, they can't serve him. He wants
Speaker 2: no part of it because he knows it's going to
Speaker 2: come out that he's been molesting other patients at the hospital.
Speaker 1: So ultimately the jury does not believe the insanity defense
Speaker 1: that is put up by Ron Bailey, and then what
Speaker 1: does he end up getting for this.
Speaker 2: Ron Bailey received a life sentence with no parole for
Speaker 2: the kidnapping and murder of Sean Moore. He received the
Speaker 2: same sentence for the kidnapping and murder of Kenny Myers,
Speaker 2: and the third charge of kidnapping and sexual assault on
Speaker 2: the youth that was kidnapped a month before Kenny Myers.
Speaker 2: That case was dismissed and thrown out simply because it
Speaker 2: just would have been a cumulative sentence. He'd already received
Speaker 2: two life sentences without parole. The prosecuting attorney's office felt, hey,
Speaker 2: this is just going to be cumulative. Let's go ahead
Speaker 2: and dismiss that because that kid survived, he was not murdered.
Speaker 1: Any reaction from Ron Bailey when the you know, his
Speaker 1: insanity defense falls apart.
Speaker 2: No, I think that he accepted it. I think that
Speaker 2: he knew that it was that it was coming. I
Speaker 2: will say that his attorney, Ray Casar, and I interviewed
Speaker 2: mister Kassar for the book, a very genuine person and
Speaker 2: to this day, mister Cassar doesn't believe that Ron Bailey
Speaker 2: is a predator. He just thinks that he was a
Speaker 2: sick individual that needed help.
Speaker 1: So no chance of getting out and you know, ultimately,
Speaker 1: what do you think the story is here? We did
Speaker 1: not talk very much because there were so much other
Speaker 1: stuff to talk about about how Ron got away with
Speaker 1: doing everything he did before Kenny, and before Sean, before
Speaker 1: the murders happened, he was trying to kill some of
Speaker 1: these kids. How does this slip through? You know, because
Speaker 1: he obviously gets out of doctor Tumbull's care. How does
Speaker 1: this happen?
Speaker 2: That's a great question. How did he slip through the
Speaker 2: cracks for thirteen years? You know, the police had the
Speaker 2: reports on him, they had the cases against him. I
Speaker 2: don't know how that happens, but it does. And the
Speaker 2: other question in the end is are there other victims
Speaker 2: out there?
Speaker 1: No, of course murder victims too, Yeah, of course absolutely.
Speaker 2: You know down in Florida where he was doing the
Speaker 2: same thing. He was up here for two years before
Speaker 2: he decided to move back up here. And are there
Speaker 2: other victims up here? That's the big question. And if
Speaker 2: an investigator at some agency reads this book, or a
Speaker 2: parent who has a lost child that they haven't seen
Speaker 2: for forty years, maybe there's a connection.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think that you handled this book really well.
Speaker 1: And the sensitivity that you've obviously had dealing with the
Speaker 1: public being in law enforcement, all of that lends to
Speaker 1: giving you know, I think a story that, as we've
Speaker 1: talked about before, is incredibly difficult these This would not
Speaker 1: be a book I would be able to do, I
Speaker 1: don't think. But it's I think an important book. And
Speaker 1: it just showed these kids. So if we talk about
Speaker 1: Kenny and we talk about Sean who came from you
Speaker 1: know that what you would say would be how we
Speaker 1: would describe, you know, a good family. You can imagine
Speaker 1: how kids who are from families who either don't want
Speaker 1: to or can't pay attention to what's happening with them,
Speaker 1: how they could slip through the cracks too. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you've got a Kenny and a Shan who are
Speaker 1: snatched right in the daylight, it's just to me another
Speaker 1: reminder about how all kids, no matter where they're from,
Speaker 1: are vulnerable.
Speaker 2: To describe Kenny and I just thought of this as
Speaker 2: I was talking to you. To describe the family life
Speaker 2: of Kenny Myers and Sean Moore if you could picture
Speaker 2: this may sound ridiculous, but if you could picture the
Speaker 2: television family Leave It to Beaver, you know, just the
Speaker 2: classic middle class American family. The parents are both working,
Speaker 2: they're paying their bills, they're just living life and it's
Speaker 2: immediately disrupted by some predator. It's an American tragedy. It
Speaker 2: really is.
Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the
Speaker 1: audio versions of my books The Sinner's All About the
Speaker 1: Ghost Club, All That Is Wicked, and American Sherlock and
Speaker 1: Don't Forget. There are twelve s of my historical true
Speaker 1: crime podcast, tenfold More Wicked right here in this podcast feed,
Speaker 1: scroll back and give them a listen if you haven't already.
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer
Speaker 1: is Alexis Amrosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer.
Speaker 1: Artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen
Speaker 1: Kilgariff and Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and
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Speaker 1: More and if you know of a historical crime that
Speaker 1: could use some attention from the crew at tenfold more Wicked,
Speaker 1: email us at info at Tenfoldmorewicked dot com. We'll also
Speaker 1: take your suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words