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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be

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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: It was a few minutes before midnight on Saturday, July fifth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. Twenty one year old Marty Lebuff was

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Speaker 2: working behind the counter as a cashier at Kk's Corner

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Speaker 2: Convenience store on Highway fourteen in calcashu Perish, a few

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Speaker 2: miles from Lake Charles, Louisiana. Marty and his coworker, twenty

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Speaker 2: six year old Stacy Reeves, were working together that night.

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Speaker 2: There was someone else there too. Stacy had a friend,

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Speaker 2: fourteen year old Nicole Guidry, there with her. Nicole sometimes

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Speaker 2: babysat for Stacy's twin daughters, who were twenty three months

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Speaker 2: old at the time. She was keeping Stacy company until

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Speaker 2: the store closed. Then the plan was for Nicole to

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Speaker 2: ride home with Stacy and spend the night with Stacy's children.

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Speaker 2: Nicole was about to turn fifteen and about to start

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Speaker 2: the ninth grade. Marty hadn't actually been scheduled to work

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Speaker 2: that night, but one of his co workers named Miles Addison,

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Speaker 2: had called in sick, so Marty stepped in. Marty's father,

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Speaker 2: Ellis Lebuff, later told a local news station that the

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Speaker 2: night seemed completely normal. He said that he had called

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Speaker 2: Kk's that night before Marty got off work to tell

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Speaker 2: Marty that he had left to plate to barbecue out

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Speaker 2: for him at home. Closing time was midnight. That time

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Speaker 2: came and went, and Marty, Stacy, and Nicole never made

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Speaker 2: it home. Around five am on July sixth, one of

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Speaker 2: Marty and Stacy's coworkers showed up to open the store.

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Speaker 2: She immediately noticed that something was very wrong. The cash

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Speaker 2: register was open, money was missing from the drawer, the

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Speaker 2: alarm was off, and Marty and Stacy were nowhere to

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Speaker 2: be found. The employee picked up the phone behind the counter,

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Speaker 2: the only phone that was on a different line and

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Speaker 2: was still working.

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Speaker 3: She called the police.

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Speaker 2: Once the deputy got to the door, he noticed Stacey

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Speaker 2: and Marty's cars in the parking lot. Inside, he found

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Speaker 2: the door to the back office had been kicked in

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Speaker 2: and the safe was open. At first, he thought this

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Speaker 2: had been a robbery and that Stacy and Marty may

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Speaker 2: be restrained in the back of the store, locked in

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Speaker 2: the cooler, But once he opened the door to the cooler,

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Speaker 2: he saw the bloodbath. There were three bodies there, Marty, Stacy,

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Speaker 2: and Nicole lying on the floor. All three had been

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Speaker 2: shot multiple times, execution style. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the

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Speaker 2: past five years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone,

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Speaker 2: I've learned that there is no such thing as a

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Speaker 2: small town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds

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Speaker 2: of messages from people all around the country asking for

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Speaker 2: help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families,

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Speaker 2: and their communities. If you have a case you'd like

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Speaker 2: me and my team to look into, you can reach

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Speaker 2: out to us at our Helen Gone Murder line at

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Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four five,

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Speaker 2: that six seven eight seven, four, four, six, one, four

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Speaker 2: or five, or you can send us a message on

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Speaker 2: Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. This is Helen Gone murder line.

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Speaker 2: A triple homicide in this sleepy little part of southwest

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Speaker 2: Louisiana immediately became a huge story. Everyone in town seemed

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Speaker 2: to have a connection with this case, either their regulars

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Speaker 2: in the store, or they knew one or more than one.

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Speaker 3: Of the victims.

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Speaker 2: The Calcashue Parish Sheriff Wayne mclvin said that the police

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Speaker 2: believed that this had been some kind of robbery gone wrong,

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Speaker 2: and that the killer or killers had botched the robbery

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Speaker 2: because whoever came into the store that night seemed to

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Speaker 2: know the store and possibly the employees. According to KPLC

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Speaker 2: seven News, there was some money taken from the register.

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Speaker 2: It totaled less than one hundred dollars, but someone had

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Speaker 2: gone into the manager's office in the back of the

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Speaker 2: store and taken a lot more money, cash checks and

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Speaker 2: money orders worth over ten thousand dollars. Someone also knew

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Speaker 2: how to cut the phone lines, and they knew how

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Speaker 2: to get into the back of the store and get

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Speaker 2: to the surveillance equipment. There was a camera, but the

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Speaker 2: killer or killers took the tape from the VCR of

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Speaker 2: the surveillance footage. Detectives said they believed that Marty, Nicole,

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Speaker 2: and Stacy had been led into the cooler one at

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Speaker 2: a time and then shot at close range. Marty had

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Speaker 2: been shot three times, Stacy and Nicole had each been

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Speaker 2: shot twice. All of them had been shot in the head.

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Speaker 2: Stacy apparently also had a bullet graze to the side

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Speaker 2: of her head. This led detectives to speculate early on

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Speaker 2: there may have been more than one killer. Because Marty

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Speaker 2: was a big guy. They believed that he would have

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Speaker 2: fought back and that it would have been hard to

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Speaker 2: subdue three people a gunpoint. Whoever it was, they left

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Speaker 2: behind virtually no physical evidence. The detective put in charge

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Speaker 2: of the investigation was Detective Donald Deluche, who went by Lucky.

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Speaker 2: He told the investigation Discovery TV show the killer in

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Speaker 2: question that police knew the murder weapon had been a

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Speaker 2: nine millimeter handgun, but that detectives were not able to

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Speaker 2: get usable fingerprints. Detective Deluge was the director of Calcashu's

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Speaker 2: Violent Crimes Task Force BCTF, which a later lawsuit described

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Speaker 2: as an elite task force. It was made up of

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Speaker 2: law enforcement officers from the Calcashue Sheriff's office, but also

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Speaker 2: Louisiana State Police officers and some officers from other departments.

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Speaker 2: That meant that Detective Deluche ran all of the high

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Speaker 2: profile investigations in that parish. Police started interviewing people in

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Speaker 2: the area and tracking down leeds. They teamed up with

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Speaker 2: crime stoppers to offer rewards. Kal Kashu Perrish's reward was

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Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars. Crime Stoppers put in an additional

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Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars. The FBI also got involved in the investigation. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: rumors were flying all over town about people who could

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Speaker 2: have been involved, and yet at the same time, no

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Speaker 2: one seemed to have seen what happened. Police did talk

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Speaker 2: to a couple of people who said they had come

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Speaker 2: to kk's corner earlier that night. They saw Stacy, Marty,

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Speaker 2: and Nicole. They said that everything seemed normal. One hour

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Speaker 2: after closing, at around one am, the store alarm went off.

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Speaker 2: The alarm company called the store and no one answered,

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Speaker 2: so the alarm company called the store's owner. The store's

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Speaker 2: owner apparently said forgetting to set the alarm, would be

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Speaker 2: a little bit unusual, so they suggested that the alarm

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Speaker 2: company called nine to one one to get them to

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Speaker 2: dispatch a unit to the store, just in case. The

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Speaker 2: alarm company did contact the dispatcher. The dispatcher said they

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Speaker 2: would send a unit to Kk's Corners, but that never happened.

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Speaker 2: Everyone wondered how could three murders happen right in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a small town and no one seemed to

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Speaker 2: know anything or see anything. For a while, it seemed

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Speaker 2: true that, as Sheriff Wayne Mcalvin said, there were no witnesses,

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Speaker 2: but it turned out there was someone who knew something,

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Speaker 2: a woman who stopped by at around eleven forty five

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Speaker 2: pm to get some gas. They talked to this witness,

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Speaker 2: Virginia Johnson, about a week after the murders. She said

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Speaker 2: that she got to Kk's just as Stacey was closing

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Speaker 2: the door, but Stacy led her into the store so

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Speaker 2: she could get her gas. Virginia came in and paid

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Speaker 2: ten dollars for the gas. She told police that at

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Speaker 2: that time she saw Marty, Stacy, and Nicole, and all

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Speaker 2: of them were alive. Then she saw two men who

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Speaker 2: drove up in a black car. She told police. While

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Speaker 2: she was inside paying for the gas, the first man

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Speaker 2: came inside the gas station and headed.

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Speaker 3: For the beer cooler.

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Speaker 2: Then as she was leaving, she bumped into the second

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Speaker 2: man as he came inside the door. Now she got

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Speaker 2: a pretty good look at this guy because she ran

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Speaker 2: right into him. She told the police that something wasn't right.

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Speaker 2: She said, quote, he didn't even say excuse me, and

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Speaker 2: that's when I just got a bad feeling. She went

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Speaker 2: outside and while she pumped her gas, she said that

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Speaker 2: she saw the two men in front of the beer cooler. Now,

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Speaker 2: at this point something seemed to happen, something that spooked her,

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Speaker 2: and it scared her enough to cause her to drive

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Speaker 2: off without pumping the rest of her gas. After that,

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Speaker 2: Virginia picked her boyfriend up from work, but later she

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Speaker 2: drove by Kk's corner again. She said when she did,

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Speaker 2: she saw the black car again and that the trunk

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Speaker 2: was open this time, and she noticed there was a

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Speaker 2: red pickup truck with a driver's side door open park

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Speaker 2: next to the black car. From the witness description of

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Speaker 2: the man she bumped into, a police sketch artist created

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Speaker 2: a composite drawing. She didn't really get a good look

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Speaker 2: at the second man. The only thing she remembered when

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Speaker 2: she first talked to police was that he had a

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Speaker 2: Marlborough keychain hanging from a front pocket. On July sixteenth,

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Speaker 2: the Task Force released the complete sketch. They said they

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Speaker 2: were looking for the man in the drawing, who was

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Speaker 2: seen in Kk's Corner with a second man at around

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Speaker 2: eleven to fifty pm on July fifth. At the time,

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Speaker 2: police said the man they were looking for was around

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Speaker 2: six feet tall and in his twenties or thirties. Detective

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Speaker 2: Deluge said at a press conference police were investigating a

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Speaker 2: possible drug connection and they simply said this man was

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Speaker 2: wanted for questioning that he might have information. A lot

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Speaker 2: of people started calling police and said they recognized the

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Speaker 2: man in the photo. They said that he was a

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Speaker 2: dead ringer for twenty seven year old Richard mcalvin, the

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Speaker 2: son of the Calcashu Parish Sheriff Wayne mccelvin. After the

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Speaker 2: poset drawing was released, people in town were calling police

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Speaker 2: and telling law enforcement that that drawing looked a lot

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Speaker 2: like Richard mcalvin, the twenty seven year old son of

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Speaker 2: the sheriff, Wayne mclvin. And this was not the first

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Speaker 2: time that Richard Mcalvin's name had been mentioned by people

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Speaker 2: in town as potentially connected to a possible homicide. Richard

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Speaker 2: Mcalvin has never been arrested or charged in connection with

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Speaker 2: these murders. In fact, as we'll get into, according to

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Speaker 2: local law enforcement, he has been cleared. I'm mentioning this

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Speaker 2: because we're trying to understand the series of events that

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Speaker 2: led to his name coming into the picture, and because

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Speaker 2: many people, including members of Stacy Ruf's family, still believe

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Speaker 2: Richard was somehow involved. We need to find out why.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to nineteen ninety one. Back in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one, there was another infamous double homicide in the area,

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Speaker 2: known locally as the Ellender murders. On Marty Grass February twelfth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, in soul For, Louisiana, also in Calcashue Parish,

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Speaker 2: right down the road from kk's corner. The bodies of

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Speaker 2: twenty seven year old Eric Ellender and his wife, twenty

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Speaker 2: five year old Pam Ellender were found in their home.

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Speaker 2: Pam was a stay at home mom. Eric was an

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Speaker 2: insurance adjuster. Eric worked at his father in law, Huey

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Speaker 2: Littlden's business. The couple had been shot to death in

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Speaker 2: their bed with a sowd off shotgun, one that police

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Speaker 2: later said belonged to Eric. Their eighteen month old daughter

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Speaker 2: was found in the home unharmed. Pam and Eric's Toyota

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Speaker 2: four Runner had been stolen. Police found the stolen car

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Speaker 2: the next day. Four young men, Chris Prudom, Robert Adkins,

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Speaker 2: Philip Ladeux and Kurt Reese, had been seen in the

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Speaker 2: car riding around Baton Rouge. Chris Prudom later confessed that

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Speaker 2: he had committed the murders alone. He was charged with

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Speaker 2: the killings, but there was a strange series of events

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Speaker 2: following this case. Seventeen days later, Chris took his own

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Speaker 2: life by hanging himself in the shower stall of the

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Speaker 2: Calcashue Parish Jay. Rumors spread that other people had been

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Speaker 2: involved in the murders, though that was never proven. Pam's father,

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Speaker 2: Huey Littlden, believed that Chris did not act alone. He

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Speaker 2: spent years with private investigators, conducting hundreds of interviews. Eventually

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Speaker 2: he came to believe that Chris was a member of

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Speaker 2: a group called Skater. Skat Er supposedly stood for Satan's kids,

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Speaker 2: against the establishment. Huey Littelton also believed there had been

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Speaker 2: a cover up. He believed that there was a party

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Speaker 2: inside the house after the couple was murdered, and that

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Speaker 2: Pam and Eric's dead bodies had been sexually molested. He

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Speaker 2: believed there had been a videotape of the sexual assault

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Speaker 2: shown at that party. It's worth mentioning these murders happened

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Speaker 2: right at the height of the Satanic Panic era.

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Speaker 3: Back in the eighties and nineties.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of allegations making news, things like

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Speaker 2: ritual sacrifice. A lot of instances were happening around the US,

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Speaker 2: and they were all later found to be unsubstantiated. But

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Speaker 2: I'm old enough to remember the media hysteria around cases

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Speaker 2: like the West Memphis three in Arkansas and the Martin

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Speaker 2: Preschool trial in Los Angeles, California. Some of the stories

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Speaker 2: that people told were pretty out there, but there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of hard facts that Huey Littlden gathered that

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Speaker 2: did seem to indicate that there was more than one

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Speaker 2: person at least present on the day of these murders,

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Speaker 2: and Huey Littleton got results.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I've ever heard of this.

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Speaker 2: Happening, but police agreed to let Huey Littlden present his

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Speaker 2: evidence to the grand jury. He found out that Robert

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Speaker 2: Adkins had told a friend that he was there during

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Speaker 2: the murders and that Chris didn't actually kill the islanders.

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Speaker 2: There was also another woman, someone who said that she

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Speaker 2: was there and helped with the murders. There were actually

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Speaker 2: murder charges filed against her at one point, but the

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Speaker 2: charges were later dropped. One of the people who some

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Speaker 2: people mentioned as being at the home was Richard Mcalvin,

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Speaker 2: and Hughey Lyttleton believed that this lead wasn't pursued because

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Speaker 2: Richard was the sh a son. This is something Sheriff

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Speaker 2: Wayne Mcalvin always completely denied. In the end, Robert Adkins

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Speaker 2: pled guilty to two counts of manslaughter.

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Speaker 3: He got probation.

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Speaker 2: Philip Leadeux and Kurt Reese pled guilty to being an

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Speaker 2: accessory after the fact. Philip was sentenced to four years

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Speaker 2: in prison, Kurt got two years, and after that police

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00:16:06,761 --> 00:16:10,801
Speaker 2: closed the case. Richard Mcalvin was never connected in any

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Speaker 2: way with these murders, but according to the book Murdering

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Speaker 2: the Bayeux, the rumors about Richard Mcalvin being seen at

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Speaker 2: the Ellanders and not properly investigated, refused to die. And

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Speaker 2: then after kk's Corner, the rumors started up again, and

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Speaker 2: again some people believed Richard was involved. Some of Stacy's

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Speaker 2: family members believed that kk's Corner was not just a

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Speaker 2: robbery gone wrong. They believed that Stacy was the original target.

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Speaker 2: This was because of another mysterious death, one that happened

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Speaker 2: just a few weeks before kk's Corner of Stacy's friend,

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Speaker 2: Kevin Abel. Stacy and Kevin were friends. Her family says

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Speaker 2: they were dating at the time of his death. Now, officially,

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Speaker 2: Kevin Abel's death was considered a suicide, but Stacy told

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Speaker 2: people she thought that Kevin was murdered and that his

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Speaker 2: murder was drug related. A few weeks before the kk's

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Speaker 2: Corner murders, Kevin Abel was found in his home lying

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Speaker 2: on the floor with a gunshot wounded the head. There

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Speaker 2: was a suicide note found near his body, and there

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Speaker 2: was a witness present, someone who apparently said they heard

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Speaker 2: a gunshot and went into the room where Kevin had

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Speaker 2: been and found Kevin lying there. According to a police report,

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Speaker 2: investigators stated Abel's hands tested positive for gunpowder residue, but

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Speaker 2: some members of Stacy's family believed that the circumstances around

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Speaker 2: the suicide were odd, including the fact that a TV

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Speaker 2: was found on top of Kevin on his chest. Some

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Speaker 2: of Stacy's family members said Stacy was scared in the

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Speaker 2: weeks before the murder because she had been talking to

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Speaker 2: police about drug dealing that was allegedly going on in

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Speaker 2: and around Kk's Corner. Her family also believes that some

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Speaker 2: members of law enforcement may have been involved in some

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Speaker 2: of that drug dealing, but the police report stated Kevin

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Speaker 2: fell backward onto a TV stand That's how the TV

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Speaker 2: ended up on top of his chest. The task force,

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00:18:05,721 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 2: led by Detective Deluge, found that kevin Abel suicide was

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Speaker 2: not connected in any way to the Kk's Corner murders,

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00:18:13,921 --> 00:18:18,041
Speaker 2: but Stacy's uncle, Robert T. Bob Rogers, said that Stacy

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Speaker 2: had been talking to a deputy who was a friend

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Speaker 2: of hers before the murders, talking about drug dealing that

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Speaker 2: was allegedly going on in the store and about being

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Speaker 2: afraid for her life. Robert wondered why that deputy did

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Speaker 2: not come forward with that information immediately after the killings.

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Speaker 2: Detective Deluge told ID that he questioned that deputy friend

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Speaker 2: of Stacy's, about why he hadn't come forward. He said

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Speaker 2: the deputy told him there was nothing that he and

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Speaker 2: Stacey had been discussing that he believed would have been relevant

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Speaker 2: to the murders. The deputy also told Detective Deluge that

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Speaker 2: he had no sexual involvement with Stacy and that Stacy

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Speaker 2: did not work for him or for the Narcotic Division

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Speaker 2: as an informant. Detective deLuce said the deputy was polygraphed

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Speaker 2: that he passed the law detector test, and because the

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Speaker 2: deputy carried a nine millimeter handgun, the same caliber as

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Speaker 2: the murder weapon, they did send the gun in for testing.

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Speaker 2: They found that the shell casings did not match the

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Speaker 2: shell casings at the scene at kk's corner. But Stacy's

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Speaker 2: family members believed that Kevin was murdered and the police

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Speaker 2: were somehow involved in the cover up, and that they

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Speaker 2: were also covering up something at Kk's corner. So I

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Speaker 2: want to back up for a minute and say, for

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Speaker 2: people looking at this from the outside, it may seem

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Speaker 2: far fetched that someone could believe that anyone working in

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Speaker 2: law enforcement could be intimately connected to crime or to

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Speaker 2: drug activities, but there have been a lot of allegations

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Speaker 2: over the years against law enforcement in this area and

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Speaker 2: criticisms of some of their practices. During the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 2: the police in Sulfur, right down the Itan Highway made

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Speaker 2: headlines because they became the number one area in the

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Speaker 2: United States for civil forfeitures. For anyone not familiar with

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Speaker 2: civil forfeitures, what those laws allowed police to do was

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Speaker 2: to confiscate and keep anything that was suspected of being

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Speaker 2: connected to a crime. They could keep cars or boats

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Speaker 2: or cash they found during traffic stops, even if the

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Speaker 2: people they stopped were not ultimately charged with some of

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Speaker 2: those crimes. By the nineteen nineties, the New York Times

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Speaker 2: reported that the police department down there had seized five

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Speaker 2: million dollars, mostly in cash, in these civil seizures. And

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Speaker 2: in the book Murder in the Bayou, Ethan Brown talked

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Speaker 2: about how in some areas of Louisiana, the confiscated property,

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Speaker 2: including drugs, had a habit of sometimes disappearing from the

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Speaker 2: evidence room. He said, quote local hustlers call this phenomenon

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Speaker 2: dope on the table, dope on the streets, meaning drugs

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Speaker 2: or sees form my tent proudly displayed for the press

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Speaker 2: and then resold by the cops.

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Speaker 3: End quote.

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Speaker 2: And again, I'm not suggesting that these traffic stops were

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Speaker 2: connected to the killings at Kk's Corner. I'm bringing this

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Speaker 2: up because we're trying to figure out why so many

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Speaker 2: people in this small town seem to believe that there

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Speaker 2: could have been a cover up with multiple people involved.

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to understand the history in order

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Speaker 2: to understand people's thought processes. Back to Kk's Corner, rumors

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Speaker 2: were flying about Richard Mcalvin's potential involvement in the case.

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Speaker 2: So in February of nineteen ninety eight, the Sheriff Wayne

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Speaker 2: Mcalvin held a press conference, and during that press conference,

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Speaker 2: he directly addressed people in the area who he believed

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Speaker 2: were spreading rumors about his son, Richard.

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Speaker 4: So, if I have to in the name of my son,

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Speaker 4: I'll work with him and we will file suits if

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Speaker 4: this does not stop. So, if these rumors people still

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Speaker 4: believe them, let them say them. But they all say

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Speaker 4: them to you, and if they do, I'm sure lawsuits

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Speaker 4: will follow. I'm asking now for any law abiding citizen,

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Speaker 4: and here's these people making false accusations in Roman to

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Speaker 4: please call the sheriff's department and give us names, dates

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Speaker 4: and places.

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Speaker 2: Sheriff macalvin said at the time that Detective de Luce

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Speaker 2: had talked to him about people calling the police station

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Speaker 2: and saying that composite photo looked a lot like Richard.

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Speaker 2: The sheriff seemed to be trying to quiet down the

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Speaker 2: rumors with this press conference, but honestly, the plan seemed

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Speaker 2: to backfire. In my opinion, the whole tone of this

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00:22:28,721 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 2: press conference is weird. I get that the sheriff is

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Speaker 2: concerned about his son, but he comes across as being

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Speaker 2: much more concerned about finding people who were spreading rumors

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Speaker 2: than he is about finding the actual killer. A few

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Speaker 2: days later, an attorney named Hunter Lundy said the sheriff's

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Speaker 2: statements were dangerous for free speech, that again the press

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Speaker 2: conference had put the focus on Wayne mccealvin's son instead

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Speaker 2: of on the victims of the triple homicide. Cheryl Reeves,

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Speaker 2: Stacy Reeves's mom, told the news station, quote Wayne mcalvin

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Speaker 2: doesn't know pain and he will never know pain compared

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Speaker 2: to this end quote.

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Speaker 3: But again, as it was.

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Speaker 2: For so many things in the parish, it was complicated

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Speaker 2: because Hunter Lundy's wife was running for sheriff at the time,

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Speaker 2: so the sheriff said Hunter's comments about him were politically motivated,

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Speaker 2: which Hunter completely denied. Richard mcealvin spoke briefly at the

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Speaker 2: press conference. He said that people had underestimated the strength

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Speaker 2: of the mcalvin family.

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Speaker 3: Now I can't imagine.

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Speaker 2: What it must be like to be falsely accused of murder,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of people were outraged again that the

387
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Speaker 2: mcelvins seemed to be making the press conference about what

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Speaker 2: their family had suffered, not the victims. In fact, many

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Speaker 2: members of victim's families told reporters that the sheriff had

390
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Speaker 2: asked them to wait outside and not attend the press conference,

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Speaker 2: and they were outraged by that. Detective Deluge said Richard

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Speaker 2: voluntarily turned himself in, that he agreed to have blood taken,

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Speaker 2: and he agreed to take a lie detector test, which

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00:24:02,001 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: he passed. Detectives also checked out Richard's alibi, Apparently he

395
00:24:06,921 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: was camping out at Big Lake at a party and

396
00:24:09,321 --> 00:24:13,681
Speaker 2: seen by several people, including his girlfriend, Amber Weatherford. Richard

397
00:24:13,761 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 2: was cleared by police, but Stacy's family members continued to

398
00:24:17,401 --> 00:24:21,601
Speaker 2: believe the sheriff's department was covering something up. The district attorney,

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Speaker 2: Rick Bryant, talked about the press conference. He said on

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Speaker 2: the ID show, quote, if you want to believe that,

401
00:24:27,881 --> 00:24:30,881
Speaker 2: you would have to believe that the entire sheriff's office is.

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Speaker 3: Corrupt end quote.

403
00:24:32,961 --> 00:24:35,721
Speaker 2: But some people in Lake Charles seemed to believe that

404
00:24:35,721 --> 00:24:42,961
Speaker 2: that was the case. After the sheriff's press conference and

405
00:24:43,041 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: after Richard, Detective Deluge and the vice squad continued their investigations.

406
00:24:48,321 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 3: They followed the money.

407
00:24:49,681 --> 00:24:51,761
Speaker 2: They tried to see if any of the stolen checks

408
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Speaker 2: had been cashed. Don Dixon, the FBI assistant who was

409
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Speaker 2: helping to handle the case, did a public appeal for information.

410
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Speaker 2: He said they were looking for people who may have

411
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,681
Speaker 2: driven by a kk's corner on the night of the

412
00:25:03,721 --> 00:25:08,721
Speaker 2: murders between midnight and one thirty am. But after several months,

413
00:25:08,721 --> 00:25:12,281
Speaker 2: with no real suspect and no new witnesses, detectives were

414
00:25:12,321 --> 00:25:17,241
Speaker 2: ready to branch out and try more unconventional methods. They

415
00:25:17,441 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: hired a hypnotist, someone you had a national reputation, and,

416
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Speaker 2: according to court documents, costs between one thy and twelve

417
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: hundred dollars to hypnotize Virginia Johnson, the witness who had

418
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Speaker 2: been at kk's Corner at eleven forty five, the one

419
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Speaker 2: who contributed to the composite sketch. Under hypnosis, Virginia was

420
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Speaker 2: apparently able to remember new details.

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Speaker 3: This time.

422
00:25:39,121 --> 00:25:41,601
Speaker 2: She said that the second man had a key chain

423
00:25:41,681 --> 00:25:45,201
Speaker 2: with a rabbit's head on it. Police then reached out

424
00:25:45,241 --> 00:25:49,201
Speaker 2: to the TV show America's Most Wanted. On January twenty fourth,

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00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, America's Most Wanted aired an episode on

426
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Speaker 2: the Kk's Corner killings.

427
00:25:54,801 --> 00:25:57,041
Speaker 3: On that show, some new facts were made public.

428
00:25:57,441 --> 00:26:01,281
Speaker 2: There was an updated composite drawing with more details, including

429
00:26:01,281 --> 00:26:03,401
Speaker 2: the fact that one of the men had a key

430
00:26:03,521 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: chain in his pocket. But in the segment they showed

431
00:26:07,121 --> 00:26:10,481
Speaker 2: a rabbit's foot, not a rabbit head, as the witness mentioned.

432
00:26:11,521 --> 00:26:13,801
Speaker 2: We're going to get a lot more into this next week.

433
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,921
Speaker 2: When did the rabbit's head become a rabbit's foot, because

434
00:26:16,921 --> 00:26:19,441
Speaker 2: that is one of those little details that seems to

435
00:26:19,441 --> 00:26:22,201
Speaker 2: have been overlooked in every single news story I've ever

436
00:26:22,241 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: seen about these events, even after twenty five years. In

437
00:26:27,121 --> 00:26:31,441
Speaker 2: my opinion, there are immediately problems with this hypnotist. I

438
00:26:31,481 --> 00:26:33,321
Speaker 2: get that the detectives were willing to try and do

439
00:26:33,401 --> 00:26:37,281
Speaker 2: anything to get more details, but honestly, a defense attorney

440
00:26:37,281 --> 00:26:39,601
Speaker 2: could have had a field day with this. We already

441
00:26:39,601 --> 00:26:43,481
Speaker 2: know that witness IDs can be problematic. Now you have

442
00:26:43,721 --> 00:26:47,521
Speaker 2: few details coming out months later under hypnosis. And again

443
00:26:47,601 --> 00:26:50,001
Speaker 2: we don't know what happened between the original time the

444
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,801
Speaker 2: witness talked with the detectives and later. We don't know

445
00:26:54,001 --> 00:26:56,441
Speaker 2: if she talked to police or anyone else about their

446
00:26:56,481 --> 00:26:59,401
Speaker 2: theories of the case, or if police talked to her

447
00:26:59,481 --> 00:27:03,961
Speaker 2: about potential suspects. After the show aired, Laine Lebuff, Marty

448
00:27:04,001 --> 00:27:08,121
Speaker 2: Labuff's brother, spoke out. He questioned why did it take

449
00:27:08,201 --> 00:27:11,561
Speaker 2: so long to get that composite photo made public. The

450
00:27:11,681 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: FBI agent Don Dixon said detectives had waited so that

451
00:27:14,961 --> 00:27:18,481
Speaker 2: the TV show America's Most Wanted would have the maximum impact,

452
00:27:19,121 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: and it seemed to. After the America's Most Wanted episode aired,

453
00:27:23,001 --> 00:27:25,881
Speaker 2: a woman named Lonnie Kemp, whose daughter was friends with Stacy,

454
00:27:25,961 --> 00:27:30,161
Speaker 2: contacted the task Force. She said she knew about someone

455
00:27:30,241 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: who was friends with Stacy, a white man who she

456
00:27:33,201 --> 00:27:35,481
Speaker 2: thought lived in New Orleans, but who had been in

457
00:27:35,521 --> 00:27:37,921
Speaker 2: the Lake Charles area about two weeks before the murders,

458
00:27:38,281 --> 00:27:41,521
Speaker 2: and she believed that this man carried a white rabbit's

459
00:27:41,521 --> 00:27:46,801
Speaker 2: foot keychain. The man's name was Thomas Cisco. Thomas lived

460
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,561
Speaker 2: in Metarie in the New Orleans metropolitan area, about a

461
00:27:49,601 --> 00:27:52,521
Speaker 2: three hour drive from Lake Charles. Thomas did have a

462
00:27:52,521 --> 00:27:56,521
Speaker 2: criminal record, but for non violent offenses like drug charges

463
00:27:56,561 --> 00:28:00,761
Speaker 2: and shoplifting, and Thomas Cisco did tell detectives that yes,

464
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,521
Speaker 2: he carried a wallet chain with a white rabbit's foot

465
00:28:03,561 --> 00:28:07,001
Speaker 2: on it. Almost a year after the murders, on May twelfth,

466
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, the FBI interviewed Thomas Cisco for the

467
00:28:10,121 --> 00:28:13,761
Speaker 2: first time, and he told a lot of different stories

468
00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:17,281
Speaker 2: during those interviews, according to court documents.

469
00:28:17,641 --> 00:28:19,001
Speaker 3: At first, Thomas told.

470
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 2: Detectives that yes, he knew Stacy, but that he hadn't

471
00:28:21,401 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: heard from her in a decade. But he said he

472
00:28:24,001 --> 00:28:26,961
Speaker 2: was a heavy drug user and that sometimes when he

473
00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:29,921
Speaker 2: used drugs he would have violent tendencies. He even said

474
00:28:29,921 --> 00:28:32,321
Speaker 2: at one point he could have participated in the killings,

475
00:28:32,321 --> 00:28:35,161
Speaker 2: but he had no memory of doing so. The next day,

476
00:28:35,361 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: Thomas said that he had an alibi that he was

477
00:28:37,881 --> 00:28:40,041
Speaker 2: back home in Meturi for the whole Fourth of July

478
00:28:40,121 --> 00:28:44,041
Speaker 2: weekend after the interview, police talked to some people who

479
00:28:44,081 --> 00:28:47,641
Speaker 2: were at Thomas's apartment complex. One woman said the last

480
00:28:47,641 --> 00:28:49,961
Speaker 2: time she had seen Thomas was after a barbecue on

481
00:28:50,041 --> 00:28:53,321
Speaker 2: Friday night, that they hadn't seen him again until Monday

482
00:28:53,481 --> 00:28:57,841
Speaker 2: or Tuesday, so Thomas's alibi was starting to fall apart.

483
00:28:58,801 --> 00:29:03,241
Speaker 2: The FBI interviewed Thomas Cisco again three months later, according

484
00:29:03,241 --> 00:29:05,641
Speaker 2: to court documents, this time over the course of five

485
00:29:05,681 --> 00:29:09,001
Speaker 2: and a half hours, he told four different stories. In

486
00:29:09,041 --> 00:29:12,241
Speaker 2: one version, he went there with a guy he knew

487
00:29:12,361 --> 00:29:17,201
Speaker 2: named Robert Thigpen. Thomas said Robert was the shooter. He

488
00:29:17,281 --> 00:29:19,641
Speaker 2: agreed to go back to Lake Charles to be interviewed

489
00:29:19,681 --> 00:29:23,721
Speaker 2: by Deputy Lucky Deluge, who he knew personally. Deputy Deluche

490
00:29:23,761 --> 00:29:26,801
Speaker 2: interviewed Thomas Cisco on August twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight.

491
00:29:27,601 --> 00:29:29,761
Speaker 2: Now Thomas and Lucky knew each other from before, and

492
00:29:29,801 --> 00:29:32,161
Speaker 2: you can hear them talking about what they'd been doing

493
00:29:32,161 --> 00:29:35,441
Speaker 2: in their lives, making small talk. Parts of this interview

494
00:29:35,441 --> 00:29:36,921
Speaker 2: can be found on YouTube.

495
00:29:37,521 --> 00:29:41,001
Speaker 5: Knock on this door, all right, and he said come in, okay.

496
00:29:41,201 --> 00:29:43,721
Speaker 5: I went in. He told me he was SI harsh.

497
00:29:43,801 --> 00:29:46,921
Speaker 6: See then he just popped up like out of the

498
00:29:46,961 --> 00:29:48,761
Speaker 6: blue Man and said, let's go.

499
00:29:48,921 --> 00:29:52,361
Speaker 5: Let's go Rob kk's corner. I thought it was a joke.

500
00:29:52,521 --> 00:29:56,361
Speaker 6: Bro actually truly thought it was a joke at first,

501
00:29:57,361 --> 00:30:00,321
Speaker 6: you know, and then he started getting serious about it.

502
00:30:00,801 --> 00:30:02,921
Speaker 5: You know, he was telling me, let's go Rob Kk's corner.

503
00:30:02,961 --> 00:30:05,561
Speaker 5: That's all they kept talking about. With Robin Kk's.

504
00:30:05,161 --> 00:30:10,241
Speaker 2: Corner, Thomas was saying Robert Thigpen was the shooter, and

505
00:30:10,441 --> 00:30:13,321
Speaker 2: he took detectives to places where he and Robert had

506
00:30:13,321 --> 00:30:15,521
Speaker 2: supposedly been the weekend of the killings.

507
00:30:16,361 --> 00:30:17,801
Speaker 3: He did know some details.

508
00:30:17,841 --> 00:30:19,481
Speaker 2: He knew the phone lines had been cut, and that

509
00:30:19,601 --> 00:30:22,041
Speaker 2: money had been stolen from the back office, and that

510
00:30:22,081 --> 00:30:26,201
Speaker 2: the bodies were in the cooler, But later in court documents,

511
00:30:26,201 --> 00:30:29,881
Speaker 2: it came out Thomas admitted to having watched The America's

512
00:30:29,961 --> 00:30:33,641
Speaker 2: Most Wanted segment, and also police quickly found out that

513
00:30:33,721 --> 00:30:36,481
Speaker 2: a lot of other details in Thomas's story did not

514
00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: add up. The bus station that he said he and

515
00:30:40,281 --> 00:30:43,481
Speaker 2: Robert were at together, for example, was not even open

516
00:30:43,801 --> 00:30:47,641
Speaker 2: live nineteen ninety seven, according to court documents, and Thomas

517
00:30:47,761 --> 00:30:50,921
Speaker 2: could not pick out Robert Thigpen's house even when detectives

518
00:30:50,961 --> 00:30:54,481
Speaker 2: took him to the street where the house was located. Meanwhile,

519
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:57,961
Speaker 2: police figured out Robert Thigpenn did have a connection to

520
00:30:58,001 --> 00:31:01,001
Speaker 2: one of the victims, but it wasn't Stacy, who a

521
00:31:01,001 --> 00:31:03,761
Speaker 2: lot of people in town believe may have been the target.

522
00:31:04,401 --> 00:31:05,161
Speaker 3: It was Nicole.

523
00:31:06,041 --> 00:31:09,481
Speaker 2: Robert's wife and sister took Nicole to kk's corner on

524
00:31:09,481 --> 00:31:10,641
Speaker 2: the night of the murders.

525
00:31:10,761 --> 00:31:12,241
Speaker 3: His sister was friends with Stacy.

526
00:31:12,921 --> 00:31:15,281
Speaker 2: Police talked to Robert, who said he had no idea

527
00:31:15,321 --> 00:31:17,681
Speaker 2: why Thomas said he was involved. He said he did

528
00:31:17,761 --> 00:31:19,601
Speaker 2: know Thomas, but that he hadn't seen him in a

529
00:31:19,641 --> 00:31:23,761
Speaker 2: long time, and Robert provided an alibi, which police verified.

530
00:31:23,801 --> 00:31:28,681
Speaker 2: So police ruled out Robert pretty quickly. So now detectives

531
00:31:28,681 --> 00:31:32,121
Speaker 2: had a problem. They had someone who had confessed and

532
00:31:32,441 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: changed the story multiple times.

533
00:31:34,761 --> 00:31:38,041
Speaker 3: They had cleared Robert, but they didn't believe.

534
00:31:38,001 --> 00:31:40,841
Speaker 2: Thomas's other story about how he committed the murders himself

535
00:31:41,361 --> 00:31:44,281
Speaker 2: that also would not match the stories that the witness

536
00:31:44,321 --> 00:31:48,401
Speaker 2: had told and the evidence. Detective de Luce asked Thomas

537
00:31:48,401 --> 00:31:51,441
Speaker 2: again what really happened? This time he said he was

538
00:31:51,521 --> 00:31:54,361
Speaker 2: never at kk's at all. He said he only confessed

539
00:31:54,401 --> 00:31:57,721
Speaker 2: after being harassed by law enforcement. He said the only

540
00:31:57,761 --> 00:31:59,841
Speaker 2: reason he knew the layout of that store was because

541
00:31:59,841 --> 00:32:03,121
Speaker 2: he had been there before, and he said in the

542
00:32:03,201 --> 00:32:06,201
Speaker 2: past he had falsely confessed to other things, including a

543
00:32:06,321 --> 00:32:09,201
Speaker 2: rape that he had not committed. Quote, because he wanted

544
00:32:09,201 --> 00:32:11,761
Speaker 2: that shit to be over end quote what is it on? On?

545
00:32:11,841 --> 00:32:13,481
Speaker 5: Tayor said, I didn't commit these murders.

546
00:32:13,521 --> 00:32:13,561
Speaker 2: Do.

547
00:32:14,041 --> 00:32:16,481
Speaker 6: I was talking to my X on the phone after

548
00:32:16,521 --> 00:32:19,681
Speaker 6: y'all had left, and she asked me, why you confessed

549
00:32:19,681 --> 00:32:20,281
Speaker 6: to something.

550
00:32:20,041 --> 00:32:24,841
Speaker 5: That you didn't the fucking did? Okay? And man, I

551
00:32:24,881 --> 00:32:26,681
Speaker 5: wanted this shit to build with this as much as

552
00:32:26,761 --> 00:32:29,841
Speaker 5: y'all do. Loocky I was. I felt like I was

553
00:32:29,881 --> 00:32:33,041
Speaker 5: being harassed by the LBI. I lost two jobs for

554
00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:35,481
Speaker 5: I lost my place to live.

555
00:32:36,881 --> 00:32:38,521
Speaker 6: I swear on it if you give me a stack

556
00:32:38,561 --> 00:32:40,881
Speaker 6: of Bibles right now, but I swear on my kid's life,

557
00:32:40,881 --> 00:32:43,241
Speaker 6: and I don't never swear on my kid's life or anything.

558
00:32:44,201 --> 00:32:46,881
Speaker 5: I did not commit these murders, dude. I did not

559
00:32:46,881 --> 00:32:49,041
Speaker 5: commit these murders, and I did not know who did

560
00:32:49,161 --> 00:32:50,161
Speaker 5: commit these murders.

561
00:32:51,481 --> 00:32:55,241
Speaker 2: Thomas said he confessed because he wanted the interrogations to end.

562
00:32:56,041 --> 00:33:00,641
Speaker 2: But months later, Thomas Cisco told yet another completely different story,

563
00:33:01,321 --> 00:33:04,961
Speaker 2: and what he said this time was shocking this time,

564
00:33:05,121 --> 00:33:09,361
Speaker 2: Thomas said the mastermind behind the shootings was Sheriff Mcalvin's son,

565
00:33:09,841 --> 00:33:18,881
Speaker 2: Richard Mcalvin. While being questioned by Detective Lucky Deluge, Thomas

566
00:33:18,921 --> 00:33:22,041
Speaker 2: Cisco said the mastermind behind the killings at kk's corner

567
00:33:22,241 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: was none other than Richard mcgalvin. Thomas said that Richard

568
00:33:26,201 --> 00:33:29,121
Speaker 2: was allegedly involved in drug related activities going on in

569
00:33:29,161 --> 00:33:32,441
Speaker 2: the area around kk's corner. He said Richard had hired

570
00:33:32,521 --> 00:33:35,401
Speaker 2: him to kill Stacy and that Marty and Nicole had

571
00:33:35,441 --> 00:33:39,041
Speaker 2: basically been collateral damage. Thomas said that Richard, who he

572
00:33:39,121 --> 00:33:42,561
Speaker 2: called that little sorry rascal, promised to pay him twenty

573
00:33:42,601 --> 00:33:47,001
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to kill because she knew too much, meaning

574
00:33:47,041 --> 00:33:49,601
Speaker 2: that she had information about Kevin Abel's death, which he

575
00:33:49,641 --> 00:33:53,201
Speaker 2: said was murder, not suicide. Thomas told detectives that Richard

576
00:33:53,241 --> 00:33:56,321
Speaker 2: had been involved in that alleged murder as well, but

577
00:33:56,361 --> 00:33:58,601
Speaker 2: Thomas said he only got ten thousand dollars from the

578
00:33:58,601 --> 00:34:02,561
Speaker 2: alleged tit and never collected the other ten. Thomas said

579
00:34:02,561 --> 00:34:05,281
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department had covered up the killings, but by

580
00:34:05,321 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: this time Thomas was totally unreliable because he was admittedly

581
00:34:09,161 --> 00:34:12,761
Speaker 2: a liar, who had given thirty five different statements, all

582
00:34:12,761 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: of which contradicted each other. Next week, we're going to

583
00:34:16,201 --> 00:34:19,561
Speaker 2: take a more detailed look at Thomas's confessions. We're also

584
00:34:19,681 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 2: going to talk to Stacy Reeves's uncle and Marty's brother,

585
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: Lane Leabuffe, who has been trying to get answers for

586
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,161
Speaker 2: almost twenty five years. We're also going to take another

587
00:34:28,201 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: look at the civil lawsuits to see if we can

588
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: find any answers there. We're also going to try to

589
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: figure out what's the real story with Thomas Cisco. Are

590
00:34:37,241 --> 00:34:41,001
Speaker 2: any of these confessions believable? Was he just a distant

591
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 2: friend of Stacy's from high school, or, as he later

592
00:34:43,281 --> 00:34:46,641
Speaker 2: told pol, her best friend. How did he know details

593
00:34:46,641 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 2: about the crime scene, about the phone lines being cut,

594
00:34:49,201 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: in the back office being broken into? Was it just

595
00:34:52,041 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 2: because he'd been in the store and watched America's Most

596
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: Wanted or did he have more details than only the

597
00:34:57,521 --> 00:35:01,081
Speaker 2: killer would have known? And if Thomas didn't act alone,

598
00:35:01,241 --> 00:35:05,081
Speaker 2: as the district attorney and police believe, then who was

599
00:35:05,161 --> 00:35:08,321
Speaker 2: that second man? Could the killer still be out there

600
00:35:08,361 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: walking around and has he killed again?

601
00:35:12,521 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 5: What do you know about that?

602
00:35:13,721 --> 00:35:17,561
Speaker 6: I'll know who I know who did it, that I

603
00:35:17,721 --> 00:35:18,121
Speaker 6: was there.

604
00:35:18,521 --> 00:35:23,361
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

605
00:35:25,761 --> 00:35:27,841
Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of

606
00:35:27,921 --> 00:35:31,081
Speaker 2: Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me

607
00:35:31,281 --> 00:35:35,281
Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to

608
00:35:35,321 --> 00:35:38,681
Speaker 2: Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Julia Chris Gau and

609
00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: Jesse Niswanger mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song

610
00:35:42,561 --> 00:35:46,761
Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,

611
00:35:46,801 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: and LC Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by

612
00:35:50,161 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts.

613
00:35:54,241 --> 00:35:56,841
Speaker 2: If you were interested in seeing documents and materials from

614
00:35:56,881 --> 00:35:59,921
Speaker 2: the case, you can follow the show on Instagram at

615
00:36:00,161 --> 00:36:03,321
Speaker 2: Helen gonpod. If you have a case you'd like me

616
00:36:03,361 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: and my team to look into, you can reach out

617
00:36:05,601 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line six seven

618
00:36:08,041 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five. That's six

619
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Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six one four five.

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Speaker 1: School of Humans