Speaker 1: Patti, everybody, I'm want to tell you the story of
Speaker 1: me calling the cops on my drummer, my own drummer.
Speaker 1: One of the lowest points of my career. It felt like,
Speaker 1: definitely one of the most embarrassing parts of my career.
Speaker 1: And I'm joined today with my drummer, Caleb Kelly, who
Speaker 1: was the source uh well call it, call it co
Speaker 1: source of this predicament. Welcome to the Grangersmith Podcast, Episode
Speaker 1: forty six. So much fun. Caleb's one of my best friends,
Speaker 1: so many good stories with him, and probably more to
Speaker 1: come as more of these podcasts roll through with him.
Speaker 1: Comment below as as you hear these stories. If you
Speaker 1: want to hear more of Caleb. The best way to
Speaker 1: get a hold of me right now, if you want
Speaker 1: to talk to me right now, you go to Cameo.
Speaker 1: Get the app on your phone, Cameo orcameo dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find me on there and I could send
Speaker 1: you a video message. I could send you congratulations. I
Speaker 1: could send you a happy Birthday. I can send you
Speaker 1: some uplifting messages or some maybe you want me to
Speaker 1: punk you out, whatever you want me to say. Cameo
Speaker 1: is a great way for me to talk to you.
Speaker 1: I can also direct message you. This is actually one
Speaker 1: of the one of the social media platforms, I would say,
Speaker 1: the only one that I actually check the direct messages
Speaker 1: on and reply just me. I'll give you my word.
Speaker 1: It is just me that replies. No one else has
Speaker 1: access to my account but me, so I'm the only
Speaker 1: one that can reply. I'm the only one that's going
Speaker 1: to send you a message. So it's a great gift idea,
Speaker 1: maybe a great thing you want to send your girlfriend
Speaker 1: or boyfriend or spouse congratulations or happy anniversary, or probably
Speaker 1: the most common is happy birthday. But I love cameo.
Speaker 1: It's a really cool platform for me to use to
Speaker 1: talk to you or for you to hire me to
Speaker 1: send to someone else. Super super easy. You could do
Speaker 1: as many times as you want. Something I have to
Speaker 1: talk about is this new album coming out next month
Speaker 1: on August the twenty eighth. That is, if you're watching
Speaker 1: this podcast real time, that is this Friday. Yes, this Friday,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get two brand new songs from me, songs
Speaker 1: you've never heard before that are leading into the album
Speaker 1: that comes out in September. So you'll get two songs.
Speaker 1: You'll get to get a preview of a taste of
Speaker 1: the album, and on that day we're also going to
Speaker 1: announce the exact date of release in September, the exact
Speaker 1: method of release, which I know I've told you guys before,
Speaker 1: but there's more after September, so you'll hear more about that,
Speaker 1: and you'll also get the title of the album and
Speaker 1: the cover. So a lot to be revealed this coming Friday.
Speaker 1: Please pageons into my socials. Will be putting it all
Speaker 1: over my socials on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and
Speaker 1: TikTok and YouTube, so hang out with us there to
Speaker 1: hear these songs. You know, technically, whenever any of an
Speaker 1: artist says my music's coming out for technically, as you know,
Speaker 1: that means Thursday night at midnight Eastern United States time,
Speaker 1: so that is I'm in Central, so that's typically eleven
Speaker 1: pm is when the new music comes out, So eleven
Speaker 1: pm Central on Thursday night, new music. So excited. Cannot
Speaker 1: wait for you guys to hear it. Can't wait for
Speaker 1: you even just to see the title. The other thing
Speaker 1: I go go on on is the Earl Dibbles Truck
Speaker 1: restoring Earl Dibbles old truck is coming together. So I
Speaker 1: know a lot of these guys, a lot of you guys.
Speaker 1: You see the podcast and you want to comment below.
Speaker 1: When's the truck going to be restored soon? Guys soon.
Speaker 1: I just left the garage. That's why I'm wearing the
Speaker 1: EEE Garage shirt right now if you're watching this on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and these are actually available again that we sold out
Speaker 1: in the store, but we're back available at ee apparel
Speaker 1: dot com. But I just left the garage, the EEE
Speaker 1: Garage and Butcher and Buller in there. We're coming close
Speaker 1: to getting the cab back. So this whole process is
Speaker 1: really going to be coming together in September, and that
Speaker 1: finale of that show is going to also have a
Speaker 1: song that is on the new album. Did that make sense?
Speaker 1: And it's not the ye Nation song on this podcast.
Speaker 1: This is an older version, but the newer version of
Speaker 1: this Yee Nation song that we've been playing at the
Speaker 1: intro to our shows and we've been playing throughout the
Speaker 1: Earl Trucker restoration is now a full complete song that's
Speaker 1: on the new album. Excited about that, Excited about the
Speaker 1: yee Apparel Fall launch on September eighteenth. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff to be talking about at the time
Speaker 1: that I'm filming this podcast. If you're watching it real time,
Speaker 1: I recorded this last week for you, and I'm so
Speaker 1: excited because tomorrow we're heading back on tour. We're going
Speaker 1: to Kansas and Nebraska, and ioming and excited that there
Speaker 1: are still places that want to hear live music that
Speaker 1: can do it in the right way. And I don't
Speaker 1: think we're going to be going backwards from here, so
Speaker 1: be looking for us to slowly start touring. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: if you're in some of those cities that is just
Speaker 1: not going to happen in I'm sorry about that. But
Speaker 1: things will slowly start opening and we'll be able to
Speaker 1: come to your town again. Then I'm out of breath
Speaker 1: because there's so many things to be talking about right now,
Speaker 1: but I really want you to hear these stories with Caleb.
Speaker 1: If you're someone that is struggling with any kind of loss,
Speaker 1: or are trying to find your identity, or maybe you're
Speaker 1: struggling with some form of depression, you're going to want
Speaker 1: to hear this story because this is a deep, dark
Speaker 1: cave of the of the Granger music career. And I've
Speaker 1: had a few of these caves in my career. This
Speaker 1: is one of them. It just so happens. It kind
Speaker 1: of revolved around my drummer. And the only reason I
Speaker 1: even put it that way, the reason I even bring
Speaker 1: forth like this is on Caleb is because we're so close,
Speaker 1: and he knows my heart, and he knows he knows
Speaker 1: me very very well. We're best friends, so he understands
Speaker 1: that we have taken a journey together at one At
Speaker 1: one point, one brother might be fallen and I know
Speaker 1: the other brother lifts him up, and then we switch.
Speaker 1: And then another brother's falling and the other brother lifts
Speaker 1: him up, and we keep Me and Caleb swap places,
Speaker 1: and we have for the last decade so. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of you guys know somebody like that
Speaker 1: in your life. Let me tell you the story about
Speaker 1: how I called the cops on my own drummer. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Grangersmith podcast. Geegee did Charge and du Tis
Speaker 1: and school long line of five full of husband downed
Speaker 1: going back range and co evage. Yeah, yoution, Caleb, you
Speaker 1: are You are part of, uh, probably several of the
Speaker 1: worst nights I've ever had on tour. You feel proud
Speaker 1: to have that. That is that's nice to be remembered,
Speaker 1: but no, so you are the You were the only
Speaker 1: band member, hopefully forever, that I had to call the
Speaker 1: cops on. But not just like a disorderly like we
Speaker 1: had to call the cops. I had to call the
Speaker 1: cops to really intervene in my business. And I want
Speaker 1: to get to that. I want to lead up to
Speaker 1: that moment, and I want to preface all this by
Speaker 1: saying that you are today one of my best friends,
Speaker 1: and you always have been for a long time. Like
Speaker 1: we never none of the stuff that's ever happened between
Speaker 1: us ended that you might Actually you might have thought
Speaker 1: it did a couple of times. Well yeah, yeah, when
Speaker 1: you call the cops, I kind of thought, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just kept causing problems. But I got you on
Speaker 1: this podcast because several reasons. One, me and you have
Speaker 1: great stories together, and I could sit here by myself
Speaker 1: and tell these stories, but it helps that you could
Speaker 1: remember things that I've forgotten. But you joined my band
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven, March twenty eleven. That was several months
Speaker 1: before my first baby was born, and you came in
Speaker 1: at a time when we were not a very very
Speaker 1: popular band. Earl Dibbles Junior did not exist. In fact,
Speaker 1: Earle would come to be born in July of that year.
Speaker 1: That same year, so you came on. It's very interesting
Speaker 1: you came on before Dibbles, which is in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways before anyone in the rest of the country
Speaker 1: besides a small select group in the state of Texas,
Speaker 1: knew who we were musically as a band, me as
Speaker 1: a musician period. So I think it's worth telling some
Speaker 1: of these stories to some people that didn't know us
Speaker 1: before then because it was a wild time. We were
Speaker 1: at a van trailer and not only were we not
Speaker 1: a very popular band, but we were trying very hard
Speaker 1: to be at that time, and we were acting like
Speaker 1: we were and so we were traveling far distances. We
Speaker 1: did it. Your very first run was a West coast run.
Speaker 1: Very I believe our first stop was Albuquerque. Yeah, our
Speaker 1: first stop was Albuquerque, and then it was like Albuquerque,
Speaker 1: we ended in Amberillo, I think, because right after that
Speaker 1: was winter Duck was on the way back was one
Speaker 1: year Doug. Okay, so we got to tell the story too.
Speaker 1: So you came on with us, really you auditioned for me,
Speaker 1: and then how long did we take off after that
Speaker 1: we I had like seventy two hours to learn the
Speaker 1: twenty six songs, okay before we left for a four
Speaker 1: day run. And it's not like you're playing guitar or bass.
Speaker 1: God bless those kind of people. But drummer in my
Speaker 1: band has to play all the drum parts, which is
Speaker 1: difficult in itself, and then also run our click track
Speaker 1: on a computer, laptop, computer, which you were not that
Speaker 1: familiar with, so you were multitasking the same thing Dusty
Speaker 1: does today. It's the same system Dusty plays drums for
Speaker 1: me today you were doing in twenty eleven and seventy
Speaker 1: two hours time, and it was different. It was before.
Speaker 1: It was before everybody had click track. So were Mike
Speaker 1: when you guys brought me on. You said, Mike was
Speaker 1: tapping on the mic to give everybody click. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so it was start stop me, start stop, get everybody
Speaker 1: on the click and then lead them into the song,
Speaker 1: and then lead them into the next one, select you
Speaker 1: know whatever on the laptop. So yeah, Actually, one of
Speaker 1: the proudest things I have is trying to push to
Speaker 1: get everybody on click track because that made my job easier. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that everybody could see the going into The next
Speaker 1: song was a lot easier if everybody had click track,
Speaker 1: because some people don't get along. Before we get too
Speaker 1: deep in stories, I feel like I also have to
Speaker 1: say that a lot of people probably know you from
Speaker 1: those dates playing drums, and maybe even more people know
Speaker 1: you in EE Nation because you're the warehouse manager of
Speaker 1: EE Apparel and so you're in a lot of random
Speaker 1: Smith videos. You're in a lot of like truck restorate,
Speaker 1: Earl's truck restoration videos. You're actually out there working on
Speaker 1: it today with me close the camera. You might've got
Speaker 1: like a hand of you in there, like a shirt.
Speaker 1: So you've been with me for nine years and different capacities,
Speaker 1: pretty much pretty much NonStop, minus a few months here
Speaker 1: and there. But you you're an amazing warehouse manager. We
Speaker 1: could we can get into why you're not the German anymore,
Speaker 1: but there it's all great stories worth telling. I think
Speaker 1: I want to start by this. And I asked you
Speaker 1: just before we turn this camera on if we should
Speaker 1: go here or not, and you had a great answer
Speaker 1: to that. But looking back at twenty eleven version of myself,
Speaker 1: not not a lot of loss in my life, not
Speaker 1: a lot of understanding about grief. I was at that point.
Speaker 1: I was three years away from my first big battle
Speaker 1: with grief when I lost my dad. And when you
Speaker 1: came on, you auditioned for me, and I asked you
Speaker 1: about your tattoo. Hm hmm. I said, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like a casual conversation. Hey, what's uh what's that
Speaker 1: tattoo mean? He said, I lost my brother. I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: that's that's tough. I have two brothers myself, and then
Speaker 1: on your other arm, you lost another brother and that's
Speaker 1: that's rough. And I didn't It's hard to say, and
Speaker 1: you know what I'm trying to say, but I didn't
Speaker 1: comprehend the loss of two brothers fully. I just comprehended
Speaker 1: it as if anyone else would think, Yeah, man, that's
Speaker 1: that's gotta be really bad. And the kicker to the
Speaker 1: whole thing was you lost Levi to a battle with
Speaker 1: cancer two months before that conversation, yeah, two months before,
Speaker 1: two months before the audition, and then six months before
Speaker 1: that lost Noah. So it was lose Noah who as
Speaker 1: we go by numbers, I'm two of five boys, so
Speaker 1: we lost three of five, and then six months later
Speaker 1: we lost four of five and then two months later
Speaker 1: that conversation between the two of us. How about that.
Speaker 1: And during the times that I've had rough times that
Speaker 1: I've had, I've often thought of you in that numerical
Speaker 1: sense of sixty days after a major loss. This is
Speaker 1: when Caleb was auditioning for me, and you did that well,
Speaker 1: partly out of necessity. We got to work. You're a drummer,
Speaker 1: You got to work, and we were about to get
Speaker 1: evicted from the apartment. Actually you literally had to work
Speaker 1: because you're going to get evicted. Yeah, So it didn't
Speaker 1: matter what the music was like or how you guys were.
Speaker 1: I was going to take it for work. Just so
Speaker 1: happened that you guys are absolutely amazing and you turned
Speaker 1: into one of my best friends. So that wasn't plus
Speaker 1: so I meet neither me or the rest of the
Speaker 1: band and crew really grasps the fact that we were
Speaker 1: taken out a drummer that two months before had lost
Speaker 1: his second brother within a year. Yeah, and not that
Speaker 1: maybe I would have done anything differently. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I could have. But you were coming on more
Speaker 1: or less with baggage, and you're gonna leave your wife
Speaker 1: and two children at home to go on the road
Speaker 1: and expect to get a paycheck and expect to be
Speaker 1: quote unquote normal dude on the road and abnormal vocation. Yes,
Speaker 1: and in a van where there's no escape, there's more
Speaker 1: escape than a bus. In a van, you're just right
Speaker 1: up on top of the binch is taking turns driving.
Speaker 1: And this this recipe led to a bunch of crazy
Speaker 1: stories on the road. It led to eventually me calling
Speaker 1: the cops on you. It also led ultimately to an
Speaker 1: understanding of grief and loss and coping with it that
Speaker 1: I would have to return to and try to take
Speaker 1: notes from. And so tell me that that first show
Speaker 1: in Albuquerque, are you thinking about the brothers the uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think they would have been I think they
Speaker 1: would have been really really happy for me. They always
Speaker 1: wanted to see me do that. They or they saw it,
Speaker 1: they saw me play, but to do it and that
Speaker 1: be my job. They would have been super excited. I
Speaker 1: think that that's something anybody who deals with losses, from
Speaker 1: the loss of that point of that person on you're
Speaker 1: you're you're robbed of those shared memories, you know, to
Speaker 1: where you can say this person would be happy or
Speaker 1: call them up and say, hey, you know, look what happened.
Speaker 1: Guess what happened? You know, yeah, exactly. So yeah, every
Speaker 1: single time we played, I was I was thinking about
Speaker 1: them especially and yeah, so yeah, they were always you
Speaker 1: want to go there, you want to go to flags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think the first time, and I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: didn't really think this story was going to go this way,
Speaker 1: but it kind of really helps. If I don't tell
Speaker 1: this backstory, then you're just a crazy dude. But the
Speaker 1: first time we all noticed that you were dealing with
Speaker 1: demons was and and a lot of it with you
Speaker 1: came from alcohol. So it's and it's hard for you because,
Speaker 1: as I've come to understand over nine years, you're very
Speaker 1: you have very too strong lines of descendants Irish and Mexican,
Speaker 1: both very proud cultures, both very family oriented, both very
Speaker 1: society relationship oriented, and both really involve alcohol as a
Speaker 1: part of communion with family and friends. So you sit down,
Speaker 1: you have a beer with your buddies, and you feel normal.
Speaker 1: So you knew that alcohol and you're not an alcoholic
Speaker 1: by the way, No, no, we just it just amplifies
Speaker 1: certain things that you're dealing with. In my opinion, So
Speaker 1: you knew that you didn't. You weren't an alcoholic. You're
Speaker 1: not You're not chemically addicted to the substance. So a
Speaker 1: few beers with your buddies would make you feel normal again.
Speaker 1: It'd make you feel like you're on a path of
Speaker 1: being in the perfect respect and remembrance of your brothers
Speaker 1: and doing what they would want you to be doing.
Speaker 1: If you don't do that and you're like pulling, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna touch alcohol, You're gonna avoid all these situations,
Speaker 1: then you're living a life of that's absent of normal
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Yeah, probably what you're thinking, right,
Speaker 1: And you don't feel normal already because you it's not
Speaker 1: normal to lose two siblings in a little over six months,
Speaker 1: so you already feel a little normal abnormal, and then
Speaker 1: removing something else from it just it all feels. It
Speaker 1: all feels weird. But when you can just sit there
Speaker 1: and be like, I'm just gonna have, you know, a
Speaker 1: couple of drinks and just relax and be happy and
Speaker 1: enjoy life the way they would want me to, that
Speaker 1: was always the goal. Yeah, you know, it's just to
Speaker 1: be normal, to enjoy something. So you I remember Vlugerville
Speaker 1: Texas Graham Central Station. I believe this is the first time, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was probably the big one. Yeah, for some reason,
Speaker 1: I had the hospital on my mind that night. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we had a few drinks after the show. Very normal,
Speaker 1: very casual. And I'm just thinking for you. I'm speaking
Speaker 1: for you. You probably think a beer, two beers, maybe
Speaker 1: a mixed drink. We had a great show, friends and
Speaker 1: family came. I feel normal, I'll have another. Let's let's
Speaker 1: amplify this feeling of normalcy. And I don't know after
Speaker 1: that point, it wasn't a lot. You didn't have a lot.
Speaker 1: You like, you weren't stumbling. No, no, it it I
Speaker 1: mean it's all bubbling there by the surface. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: never really takes a lot for it to kick off.
Speaker 1: So someone comes and tells me, Caleb, you gotta go
Speaker 1: get Caleb. He's outside in the trailer and he's having
Speaker 1: a meltdown. It's like, okay, new guy, you know what's
Speaker 1: this about. Go out there. And you were in the
Speaker 1: in our trailer, an empty trailer, punching with your bare
Speaker 1: fist a three quarter inch plywood wall. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and I see I see two things. And this happened
Speaker 1: this is gonna happen in every other story. I see
Speaker 1: two things when I see my buddy having a meltdown, too,
Speaker 1: I see my drummer breaking his hands on a three
Speaker 1: quarter inch plywood wall. Yeah. I don't know what. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just just rage and loss and uh it
Speaker 1: always crept up, I'm sure to you guys, it was
Speaker 1: like I thought everything was going good. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: everything was fine. You know, I thought we were having
Speaker 1: a great night. It was always like that. It was
Speaker 1: always this story, We're having such a great night, and
Speaker 1: then and then something happened. But you know, from what
Speaker 1: comes out of left field to someone is never it's
Speaker 1: just right there constantly. So unfortunately, you know, like like
Speaker 1: you said, it was a kind of a constant theme
Speaker 1: that it seemed to come out of left field. So
Speaker 1: tell me what you told me before we started the
Speaker 1: camera about why you even wanted me to bring up
Speaker 1: the brothers. Well, first, I love them and I love
Speaker 1: talking about them, but I think I think it gives
Speaker 1: gives me a chance to talk about why, you know,
Speaker 1: why that kind of happened. I believe there are reasons
Speaker 1: and their excuses. You know, there can have you can
Speaker 1: have reasons that you do something that that doesn't excuse
Speaker 1: why you did it or doesn't give you a pass.
Speaker 1: So I had reasons, but not excuses. Excuse is kind
Speaker 1: of give you a pass for what you did. I
Speaker 1: had reasons, and the reasons were the loss of the brothers.
Speaker 1: And then you know, like what we were talking about
Speaker 1: was that was my first impression to a lot of
Speaker 1: different people, and it wasn't my first impression to you guys,
Speaker 1: but it was not too far down the line that
Speaker 1: you guys saw this crazy individual having the outdown, breaking down,
Speaker 1: breaking stuff, you know, breaking knuckles and things like that,
Speaker 1: and it that's my legacy to unfortunately a lot of
Speaker 1: different people. And I know there's other musicians out there
Speaker 1: who were If you're not struggling with the substance, you
Speaker 1: may be struggling with something inside. And the substance is
Speaker 1: the catalyst. It's the straw that breaks, you know, the
Speaker 1: camel's back, and it's just the fuel to that fire.
Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate that a lot of musicians, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of artistic people have that because you feel
Speaker 1: so deeply, you know, you go through high as you
Speaker 1: can be the happiest person someone's ever seen. And then
Speaker 1: obviously you can be, you know, the saddest person that
Speaker 1: someone's seen. And I got to say to that that
Speaker 1: you are. It might not come across on this podcast
Speaker 1: because of the subject matter, but you are one of
Speaker 1: the top three, if not the funniest guy I know
Speaker 1: in my life. You're witty, you said the funniest jokes.
Speaker 1: You're just a hilarious dude, always have been, still are today,
Speaker 1: and you were back then. And so that was like
Speaker 1: what you said where we just thought, oh, I thought
Speaker 1: this guy had all his ducks in a row. He's
Speaker 1: so funny. He was just laughing two hours ago with
Speaker 1: us telling jokes that that. Actually that was part of
Speaker 1: what would set me off, as oddly as that sounds,
Speaker 1: being funny someone telling me that I'm funny, because Noah
Speaker 1: was the funniest person that I have ever met, that
Speaker 1: a lot of people have ever met, and so making
Speaker 1: people laugh would remind me of him. And then people
Speaker 1: telling me that I'm funny or someone telling me that
Speaker 1: You're the funniest person I've ever known was a compliment
Speaker 1: coming from somebody, Yeah, but to me it redirected. You know,
Speaker 1: it's exactly right. So it it would seem like a compliment.
Speaker 1: We had many moments during dark We had dark moments
Speaker 1: where I would be like, Caleb, you got so much
Speaker 1: going for you. You got your family at home, You're
Speaker 1: with the funniest guys I've ever met, And then boom,
Speaker 1: you'd say, I'm not the funniest guy. You should have
Speaker 1: met my brother, Noah, he was funny. I'm nothing. And
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, gosh, bad thing to say the
Speaker 1: same thing with the nicest You can be such a
Speaker 1: nice guy. And then you know, I'd be like leive,
Speaker 1: I was the most compassionate person. Yeah, it was what
Speaker 1: would be a compliment coming from you, guys. I didn't
Speaker 1: take it that way obviously, because that wasn't what was
Speaker 1: on my mind. I mean everything set of Flagstaff was
Speaker 1: in the mountains. Yeah, so you're for your Colorado boy, Yes,
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs, Home of the mountain, home in the mountains,
Speaker 1: and uh, Colorado you are. You are very They have
Speaker 1: a lot of pride for Colorado, man, So shout out
Speaker 1: to all the Colorado people listening you. You moved to
Speaker 1: Texas for several reasons. Music was a big part of that,
Speaker 1: and your parents, your folks are still in Colorado and
Speaker 1: one brother two bas Dias is back. Amos is back now, Okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, two of the remaining tour in Clora. So
Speaker 1: a big part of of what we're doing with this
Speaker 1: podcast telling stories, two buddies telling stories on the road.
Speaker 1: But also I'm gonna tie in a little piece of
Speaker 1: this to anyone that's listening in two parts. One, someone
Speaker 1: that's listening that struggling in life with some kind of
Speaker 1: loss or depression or grief, and I'm showing this as
Speaker 1: the light at the end of the tunnel, the other
Speaker 1: side of the fence. And I'm also presenting this to
Speaker 1: friends and employers and buddies that have one of these
Speaker 1: kind of people in their lives that to showing them
Speaker 1: that there is another side of the coin, There is
Speaker 1: a way out of this. If you apply the proper
Speaker 1: pressure where it needs to be, you could stop the bleeding.
Speaker 1: And you're my example in my world of a guy
Speaker 1: that was written off as lost in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: and now you're one of our most valuable employees at
Speaker 1: EE Apparel and still one of my best friends. And
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that for all that, I'm also grateful that
Speaker 1: we get to you get to relive twenty eleven twenty
Speaker 1: twelve with me a time there was a big transition
Speaker 1: before he became a band that people cared about, and
Speaker 1: I like to hang on to those memories and you
Speaker 1: kind of keep be grounded when it comes to that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Lots changed, yeah, and a lot has
Speaker 1: changed on the outside. On the inside, we're still it's
Speaker 1: still me and Tyler and Parker, you and and you know.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot that's the core of it is
Speaker 1: still the same. Yeah, it's the the nuts and bolts,
Speaker 1: the main ingredients. There's a lot of extra extra stuff
Speaker 1: on it. But the I'm always impressed at the hard
Speaker 1: work and the innovation that comes from you smith boys.
Speaker 1: It's just no ground. I always say, no grass grows
Speaker 1: underneath your feet. It's constantly moving, so which is just amazing.
Speaker 1: That's why people are looking towards you guys, especially during
Speaker 1: this time, because it's not just music that you have.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got all these finger in a lot
Speaker 1: of different pies. You know, it's a lot of different
Speaker 1: things going, which is impressive. And no grass grows in
Speaker 1: Texas at all. Right, now, that's true. It's too hot
Speaker 1: it's all it's all dead, five degrees outside. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take a quick break, and then you want to go
Speaker 1: to Flagstaff, Arizona with me? When I called the cops
Speaker 1: on you, yes, all right, be right back. So we
Speaker 1: were rolling to the van. We got a little run.
Speaker 1: We're going to Arizona. We're going to Colorado. It's like
Speaker 1: a Utah stop in there in Mexico. Maybe, or maybe
Speaker 1: it started with I don't know. Well, the day after well,
Speaker 1: right after flag Staff, we went to Grand Canyon, Okay,
Speaker 1: so we have a little Western run with the band.
Speaker 1: And this was in twenty eleven. I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we go to Flagstaff, Arizona to play the Museum Club,
Speaker 1: small music venue, a really fun place. And the day
Speaker 1: starts when we arrived. The day start with me, you
Speaker 1: and maybe Tyler, Johnny and Tyler because we were training
Speaker 1: for the bootwalk. Johnny and Tyler were training for the
Speaker 1: one hundred mile bootwalk that we were doing without the
Speaker 1: first year of it. Maybe that was the second year,
Speaker 1: because you guys did the first year right before it
Speaker 1: and then and then I was happy to join, Okay,
Speaker 1: the second year. So we were in this in this
Speaker 1: little routine of getting to a venue, and during our
Speaker 1: off time, we would put on combat boots and walk
Speaker 1: to try to get our legs acclimated to walking long
Speaker 1: distances and breaking boots and breaking in boots. And we
Speaker 1: start walking in Flagstaff started the venue. We just start
Speaker 1: walking and our only reference was the mountain that was there.
Speaker 1: It was like a big mountain there, Like, let's walk
Speaker 1: to the foot of the mountain, thinking like, maybe there's
Speaker 1: a stream there, really cool path we could path, and
Speaker 1: then maybe we can get up into the mountain a
Speaker 1: little bit, maybe there's some kind of trail. So we start.
Speaker 1: We didn't know this, but we we go right into
Speaker 1: a Navajo reservation. No signs, no signs, We just walked
Speaker 1: straight into it. And what we also didn't know was
Speaker 1: it's not good to walk into a Navajo reservation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not very it's not very wait, I mean, I
Speaker 1: imagine it's probably nicer if you're invited. But we just
Speaker 1: started walking and that's when we saw that older gentleman
Speaker 1: on the backside of that store. Yeah, he was like, no,
Speaker 1: we thought he was I don't know what we thought
Speaker 1: he was on or something like that, but it looked
Speaker 1: like he was trying to get our attention at the
Speaker 1: like a grocery store. It's like behind the grocery store,
Speaker 1: there was this man and evidently that was the entrance
Speaker 1: to the reservation, like that next street was going to
Speaker 1: start the reservation. We didn't know that. And there was
Speaker 1: this old man. We thought he was homeless and drunk.
Speaker 1: He was yelling at us to tell us to stop, stop, stop,
Speaker 1: and we thought he was like gonna say stop, my
Speaker 1: cars broke down and I needed some cash, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: So we ignored him as we would just a bum
Speaker 1: asking for a dollar. We just just keep just keep
Speaker 1: your faith straightforward, just keep walking. So then we enter
Speaker 1: the reservation unknowingly, and things started happening around us. Our
Speaker 1: faces were turning towards us, everyone's eye on us. So
Speaker 1: then the two dudes, Yeah, they started following us, and uh,
Speaker 1: we're yelling at us, yes, and we were like all
Speaker 1: right in their language, yeah, obviously where we're not where
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be. Uh, but you know, it was
Speaker 1: an accident. You know, we wouldn't have done that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it definitely started to get a little intense, you know,
Speaker 1: just kind of yelling and stuff like that. And as
Speaker 1: we're walking. I remember walking back through like that little
Speaker 1: we wouldn't call it like a common area, but it
Speaker 1: was like a there was like a playground there and sidewalks,
Speaker 1: and they were like really yelling and they're like come in,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of getting closer to they got they
Speaker 1: got together and started following us again, and yeah, that
Speaker 1: was a they're gonna jump us. And we didn't know that.
Speaker 1: We didn't know where we were. And if we did
Speaker 1: know where we were, I don't think I would have known.
Speaker 1: It was a bad deal for four white dudes to
Speaker 1: just go trespassing through a Navajo reservation uninvited, because that
Speaker 1: probably looked like we were looking for trouble, yeah, or
Speaker 1: like we didn't care. Yeah, we didn't. We didn't respect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: told we'll go where we want. Now, we wouldn't have
Speaker 1: gone there. We would have totally respected. We just had
Speaker 1: no idea of where, yeah, where we were, so that
Speaker 1: we never made it to the foot of the mountain. Instead,
Speaker 1: as soon as we figured out we were in the wrong,
Speaker 1: we made our way out of there. Luckily, there was
Speaker 1: not a confrontation. We met our way out and started
Speaker 1: heading back to the venue. But we're kind of amped
Speaker 1: up about that. Like, we went back to the crew.
Speaker 1: I said, hey, guys, don't don't walk towards the mountain.
Speaker 1: That's the reservation. It's uh, you don't want to go
Speaker 1: that way. We had guys yelling at us. It was
Speaker 1: a close call, I mean, was we were scared. Adrenaline pumping.
Speaker 1: We had adrenaline pumping. So that kind of set the
Speaker 1: scene for the night that was going to come for us.
Speaker 1: And we go. We play the show and it was
Speaker 1: a great show. Yeah, I had a blast. We had
Speaker 1: a really good time, great crowd for a band like
Speaker 1: us that was relatively unknown to be all the way
Speaker 1: in Arizona and play a show with people that were
Speaker 1: really interested in it. It was a great It was
Speaker 1: a great night, and it was a worthy It was
Speaker 1: a worthy night of a celebration of some sort. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we have a few drinks. And this was long
Speaker 1: after Flugerville, Texas, where me and you had had many
Speaker 1: conversations like I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm good. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can control this, but I need to have I need
Speaker 1: to be able to have a drink with my boys
Speaker 1: to feel normal. Cool. Can't argue with that. And we
Speaker 1: were in the mountains. So we were in the mountains,
Speaker 1: which it felt like Colorado. Yeah, so I should I
Speaker 1: should have known right then to be like maybe maybe,
Speaker 1: don't you know, because you're everything's close to the surface,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's always closer than you think. The
Speaker 1: uh that side, the dark side, the dark side. So
Speaker 1: do you remember what our keyboard player said to you
Speaker 1: to set you off that night after a few drinks.
Speaker 1: I love him to death. I don't know if you'll
Speaker 1: say his name. Listen to this podcast, all right, well
Speaker 1: we'll call him Derek Herrera. And the poor guy, it
Speaker 1: wasn't his fault at all. He was just trying to
Speaker 1: get us a load up. It's very you know he does.
Speaker 1: He did his job trying to get things on and
Speaker 1: off stage very good. And there was nobody following us,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't in a hurry. No other band playing
Speaker 1: after us. Yeah, so that was it, and we had
Speaker 1: time to take our stuff down, So I don't know
Speaker 1: what the hustle was. And I had already had a
Speaker 1: handful of drinks and uh so I'm kind of loading up,
Speaker 1: and uh, the the encounter we had and being in
Speaker 1: the mountains and uh, the time of year, and just
Speaker 1: the fact that it was all bubbling under the surface.
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of kept asking me and kept
Speaker 1: asking me, and then uh, and then I just I
Speaker 1: just remember dropping drum gear, and then I don't really
Speaker 1: I do remember, uh, punching a suburban out outside of
Speaker 1: of the venue with this hand and doing quite a
Speaker 1: bit of damage to that hand. But I broke your hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: broke my hand. And we had three shows left to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember that because I remember calling my dad and
Speaker 1: telling him. Then He's like, you're gonna play those shows?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I know, and he goes, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna play those shows. I don't care if you
Speaker 1: have to take the drum stick to your hand, You're
Speaker 1: going to play those shows. So and I did. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a I don't know what it was. I
Speaker 1: should have known that it was that, not that I
Speaker 1: could tell how far beneath the surface that was, but
Speaker 1: that the fact that I couldn't tell should have been,
Speaker 1: you know, a warning. I think when you're walking through grief,
Speaker 1: it's like imagine walking down the middle of the road.
Speaker 1: You have days where you're walking down the middle of
Speaker 1: the road and on the left or is a good
Speaker 1: day or a good night, And on the right is
Speaker 1: a bad night. That's on a good day you're walking
Speaker 1: down the middle of the road, and then on certain
Speaker 1: days you're walking down the middle of the sidewalk. And
Speaker 1: on that night, I was walking like the down the
Speaker 1: blade of a knife. So that's how it could have
Speaker 1: gone either way. And it very quickly went bad. You
Speaker 1: became hide. It was truly as Lincoln watches The Incredible Hulk.
Speaker 1: It was truly you turned into the green Man, and
Speaker 1: you couldn't go back. And the green Man he doesn't
Speaker 1: like Caleb. No, no, he wants to destroy everything that
Speaker 1: guy has. So I come outside and you were punching
Speaker 1: the back of a suburban, the glass as if it's
Speaker 1: a padded couch. You're just slamming it with your hand
Speaker 1: and you're breaking the bones in your hand. Couldn't feel it,
Speaker 1: didn't care. So I run out with Tyler. We stop
Speaker 1: you from hitting the suburban, and luckily, luckily we didn't
Speaker 1: confront you because you were ready to fight anybody or anything.
Speaker 1: You would have fought your own family if they were there.
Speaker 1: You wanted to fight anything. You would have fought God
Speaker 1: or your dad or any or the Angel Gabriel. It
Speaker 1: didn't matter. You wanted to fight. So when Tyler came
Speaker 1: out there to break you up, to break it up,
Speaker 1: you turned on us like, Okay, let's go. If you
Speaker 1: don't want me to punch the suburban, I'll punch your face. Basically,
Speaker 1: in a bunch of words and hours of conversation, we
Speaker 1: instead of antagonizing you and getting mad, luckily we recognized
Speaker 1: that you were not Caleb. It was the first of
Speaker 1: many times when I realized I'm not talking to my
Speaker 1: buddy Caleb right now. I actually called him. I gave
Speaker 1: him a name Kalib, and named literally not. So if
Speaker 1: you're listening to this podcast and you know of this
Speaker 1: kind of situation, maybe it's you, maybe it's a friend,
Speaker 1: maybe it's a family member, made it's a brother or sister,
Speaker 1: you could recognize that they turn into the Hulk, they
Speaker 1: turn into hide, they turned into Kalib, and they you
Speaker 1: can't reason with that person, and you sure can't confront
Speaker 1: them or fight them, because there is no winning that fight.
Speaker 1: It's gonna turn out to the the end result of
Speaker 1: a true fight. If we were to have fought, as
Speaker 1: you've mentioned it several times, hey, I might not kill you.
Speaker 1: You might beat me, but in the end you're gonna
Speaker 1: be missing an ear and half of your nose. Your
Speaker 1: eye is gonna be gabs up. You're remember, you're gonna
Speaker 1: remember from your deformity that you have from this night.
Speaker 1: That's basically how you put it. And luckily Tyler and
Speaker 1: I realized that we diffused the situation and we talked
Speaker 1: you into going to bed, Like, stop, we still have
Speaker 1: things to load in the trailer. We're gonna load it.
Speaker 1: The hotel is attached to the same parking lot as
Speaker 1: the venue, So here's the hotel. Key, buddy, you just
Speaker 1: go in. I'm so sorry you're having a bad night.
Speaker 1: Just go in there and sleep it off. Which didn't work, No,
Speaker 1: now it didn't. I was gonna go to a mountain.
Speaker 1: You go back to the hotel and you basically decide that, yes,
Speaker 1: you recognize there's a problem. You recognize you're not yourself,
Speaker 1: and the only way to reconcile this problem is at
Speaker 1: the top of the mountain. Yes, so you're going to
Speaker 1: go to the top of the mountain. We remind you
Speaker 1: that there's a Navajo reservation in between you and the mountain,
Speaker 1: and then you quickly acknowledge I'll take on the whole
Speaker 1: Navajo tribe, yes, which is not a good idea, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't in the right frame of mind at all.
Speaker 1: I was. Yeah, my goal was to go to the
Speaker 1: top of the mountain. I remember saying to you, to
Speaker 1: the top. Yes. I sure hope that no one listening
Speaker 1: actually thinks that we're talking bad about the Navajo tribe.
Speaker 1: It's not that at all, because you guys are just
Speaker 1: a if you're listening, you're just a really unfortunate side
Speaker 1: effect to this whole story. But it had nothing to
Speaker 1: do specifically. It could have been it could have been
Speaker 1: any group of people that didn't want to be imposed upon,
Speaker 1: could have been Saint Mary's convent that was right next door. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the circus just came in town. Unfortunately it was
Speaker 1: right next door in your mind, because I know you
Speaker 1: very well, So in your mind, you're thinking, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: reconcile like Moses on the top of this mountain, and
Speaker 1: God's gonna speak to me in a burning bush. But
Speaker 1: in order to get to that burning bush on top
Speaker 1: of this mountain, I'm gonna have to go through the enemy.
Speaker 1: And knowing what happened earlier that day. It's got to
Speaker 1: be ten times worse in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: And I will welcome that adversary. And if I die
Speaker 1: in a fight against the entire Navajo tribe, then so
Speaker 1: be it. That's probably better than the current state of
Speaker 1: my life. That's about as much sense as it made
Speaker 1: in my mind. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, like you said,
Speaker 1: it could have been anybody wasn't. It was just any adversity,
Speaker 1: any fight, any pain, any bad situation, any fight that
Speaker 1: was in front of me was more than welcome at
Speaker 1: that point. And you were not adamant about going alone.
Speaker 1: You you were welcoming us there. The open invitation was
Speaker 1: there to, hey, you want to go with me, We're
Speaker 1: going on the top of the mountain. Yeah, it would
Speaker 1: actually be better if you fought the Navajo tribe with
Speaker 1: me instead of just being And so nobody said yes,
Speaker 1: no one, No one agreed to that one taker I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go. It was like probably two o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning by this time. Yeah, right, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was yeah, because we had done, we had played, and
Speaker 1: then everything was either getting loaded up or loaded up.
Speaker 1: Thanks to whoever loaded my drum kit. I think it
Speaker 1: was Frank. So there's an X factor to this story.
Speaker 1: Thus far you are and where back then an avid
Speaker 1: to a supporter, constant, constantly carrying, and we knew that
Speaker 1: you had a on you. You always had I guess
Speaker 1: that was your sig. You had your sicklock, you had
Speaker 1: your glock on you, and we knew that you were
Speaker 1: going to go to the mountain, to the top and
Speaker 1: go through the reservation, and you always had a glock
Speaker 1: on you. This is not a good combination with you alcohol,
Speaker 1: your hide, your kalibe, you have your pistol in your
Speaker 1: in your pocket, and you're going to go through a
Speaker 1: hostile group of people. This is bad, a bad recipe, bad.
Speaker 1: And so when I realized I couldn't stop you from
Speaker 1: going to the mountain, my next my next line of
Speaker 1: thinking was, Okay, I can't stop Caleb, but what I
Speaker 1: can do is asked to take his gun from him,
Speaker 1: so then if he goes, at least he's not going
Speaker 1: to kill anybody or get killed. Yeah, yeah, or just yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my thinking. Three am, Now yeah I did's It
Speaker 1: was a long time, probably probably ours of awkwardness, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that was my plan was to kind of go to
Speaker 1: the top of this mountain and just go there. So
Speaker 1: I was going to stay the night. So I realized
Speaker 1: because you played the show, you didn't play a show
Speaker 1: with gun on you, because we played at a bar,
Speaker 1: So you had it in our trailer in the center
Speaker 1: section of our trailer that had a separate lock and key.
Speaker 1: So as I'm putting this together in my head, I realize,
Speaker 1: I'll take the key from a trailer and I'll go
Speaker 1: hide it. So that way I'll say, Okay, buddy, you're
Speaker 1: free to go. I can't stop you from going to
Speaker 1: the mountain. I'm not going to go with you. I
Speaker 1: hope you're back by seven am when we leave to
Speaker 1: go to Colorado Springs, which is ironically when we were
Speaker 1: going to your hometown the next day to see your dad.
Speaker 1: Well almost we were going to the Grand Canyoneah went
Speaker 1: and then to Colorado Springs, but we were having an
Speaker 1: off day in the Grand Canyon. So I take the
Speaker 1: key and hide it, and I say you're free to go.
Speaker 1: Right I'm tired of arguing. It's been hours of going
Speaker 1: back and forth. So you go, just like I predicted,
Speaker 1: to the trailer to get your gun to go into
Speaker 1: the Navajo reservation with your gun. You realize it's locked
Speaker 1: and there's no key, and I was totally cool with that.
Speaker 1: Or wait, I was curious. That's right. You came back
Speaker 1: as if as if your your Second Amendment has been
Speaker 1: violated by democratic government, which it probably needed to be
Speaker 1: tempered a little bit. It probably needed to just be like,
Speaker 1: why don't you take a break from from it for now?
Speaker 1: That was a really that was a really good idea
Speaker 1: and a good call on y'all's part. So I was
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton to you, Yes, at that moment, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: really couldn't have done anything positive that I was going
Speaker 1: to be on board with at that time. You could have.
Speaker 1: You could have given me a million dollars and I
Speaker 1: would have found some reason to be angry. So then
Speaker 1: the plan no pun intended backfired on me because as
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, I'm gonna forget it. I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: him deal with this problem of being locked out from
Speaker 1: his own gun. I'm gonna let him deal with this,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go to bet that was wishful thinking.
Speaker 1: So I go to the hotel room with Tyler. This
Speaker 1: is back in a time when we had one or
Speaker 1: two one room or two. We had two rooms with everyone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was two guys to a bed. Okay for
Speaker 1: the most part. In our room, I was Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I go back to my room. I've got Tyler in there.
Speaker 1: I've got Eric or Derek excuse me, you said, our
Speaker 1: keyboard player. And I go in there like I'm wishful
Speaker 1: thinking I'm gonna go to sleep, and you come and
Speaker 1: find me. And you have made up your mind that
Speaker 1: that gun and this trip to the mountaintop is bloodshed
Speaker 1: with your band brothers, and you have made up your
Speaker 1: hide has made up his mind Khalip that I will
Speaker 1: fight you until you until you submit to give me
Speaker 1: that key or tell me where it's hidden. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: hide is persistent. If nothing else, just I you know,
Speaker 1: when you meet somebody, and I'm sure people who were
Speaker 1: watching this podcast is know somebody who like, there's no
Speaker 1: reasoning with a person like that once they have something
Speaker 1: in their head, whether it be I need to get
Speaker 1: this back, or that person said something, or that person's
Speaker 1: looking at me, none of it makes sense. But you're
Speaker 1: trying to talk to a crazy person. At that point,
Speaker 1: we were thinking, should we zip time to the shower,
Speaker 1: let him sleep it off. That was like an option.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take a quick break and I'll tell
Speaker 1: you how I finally call the cops. So this all
Speaker 1: came to a head when you you basically during the
Speaker 1: conversation in the doorway of the hotel, I'm saying, sorry, buddy,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you the key to the
Speaker 1: trailer to your gun. You're on your own, and you
Speaker 1: stuck your foot in the door yes, and said, here's
Speaker 1: the ultimatum. Did either you tell me where that key
Speaker 1: is so that you can give me my property back,
Speaker 1: or we're all going to fight. And I realized that
Speaker 1: I'm taking on all of you, and I'm okay with
Speaker 1: those odds. I'm okay with the consequences of the bodily
Speaker 1: harm that that might cause me. Ye, which is the
Speaker 1: same thing you thought about the Navajo tribe. It wasn't
Speaker 1: really worried about It wasn't worried about what happened to me,
Speaker 1: you know, because it was just needed to get uh
Speaker 1: to something, and uh, I think maybe even a little
Speaker 1: bit of accomplished something, yeah, you know, like get a
Speaker 1: get a victory, yeah, you know, because it didn't feel
Speaker 1: like anything was you know, it would have been not
Speaker 1: to achieve something where it just seems like everything's kind
Speaker 1: of going, you know. I'm sure that was part of it.
Speaker 1: Mainly it was because I had my mind set on it,
Speaker 1: and you can't tell someone you know, who's that crazy
Speaker 1: right then? No, or you know, it's just you're dealing
Speaker 1: with a crazy person at that point. So so I've
Speaker 1: pretty much left with one choice in my mind. Do
Speaker 1: you disagree with my one choice? No? No, I only
Speaker 1: had one option. No, Yeah, that was that was That
Speaker 1: was all you all you could do. I said, all right, man,
Speaker 1: I got one card to play one only. I got
Speaker 1: to do what is probably going to be the most
Speaker 1: embarrassing moment of my personal career. I am gonna have
Speaker 1: to call the cops on my own drummer. Please, Caleb,
Speaker 1: don't make me do this. Don't make me live out
Speaker 1: a terribly embarrassing moment in a relatively small town where
Speaker 1: we call dispatch and they come to Museum Club. They're
Speaker 1: gonna know who the band was that played there. They're
Speaker 1: gonna know me. Yeah, Please don't make me do this.
Speaker 1: It was a huge town, a lot going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: please don't make me call cops. Please, don't make me
Speaker 1: do this. But you're but you're only leaving me one
Speaker 1: choice if you don't back down. You stood there with
Speaker 1: your foot in the door, stared me right in the
Speaker 1: eye and said, I'm willing to accept that consequence. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wish I hadn't been so so persistent. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's an are stating it. You put
Speaker 1: your persistency when you're high at or khalib Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: hide he and khalib he he just he doesn't give up.
Speaker 1: I'll get that to although I wish he would, you know,
Speaker 1: like would have like found a really hard crossword puzzle
Speaker 1: knitting pattern, like, don't give up, hide, work on that puzzle,
Speaker 1: but you can get it. You'll finish that sweater. But no,
Speaker 1: it was always destructive, so stuff. So as if I
Speaker 1: was living in some old Western movie. I decided to
Speaker 1: count the ten count down from ten. Yeah, with my
Speaker 1: phone in my hand, nine to one one dialed, I start.
Speaker 1: I begin a slow countdown from ten, because if that's
Speaker 1: going to change your mind, yeah it was. It was
Speaker 1: a bizarre, bizarre, drunk, crazy New Year's Eve countdown hotel's doorway.
Speaker 1: So start at ten. You don't budge, you're just staring me,
Speaker 1: just staring me down. Just glass, were just staying right
Speaker 1: through me. Nine eight seven. You're just not budgeting. Your
Speaker 1: foot's in the door. You have to get your gun.
Speaker 1: Nine one one dispatch And it's like, good the evening.
Speaker 1: It's about four o'clock in the morning. How are you
Speaker 1: I need an officer to come to the so and
Speaker 1: so hotel outside of the Museum Club. One of my
Speaker 1: employees has had too much to drink. Correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, I don't remember. One of my employees has
Speaker 1: had too much to drink, and he is wanting to
Speaker 1: put himself in a dangerous situation with threatening us. Does
Speaker 1: he have a weapon that's the problem. No, he has
Speaker 1: a knife, he's not using it, but he's wanting to
Speaker 1: get his handgun. Where's the handgun? It's locked away and
Speaker 1: I have the key that's trying to get it. So
Speaker 1: I basically explained the situation. Okay, officers are on the way,
Speaker 1: and they kept asking me like is he in possessed
Speaker 1: where's the knife right now, like to his pocket? And
Speaker 1: he's non possession of any other weapons, which is you know,
Speaker 1: legitimate questions they're putting officers at risk sending them at
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning. Yeah, they don't know what
Speaker 1: they're running into. So they arrive the it commences the
Speaker 1: most embarrassing you know sequence. So thus far, I've had
Speaker 1: more since then, more embarrassing moments, like getting naked on
Speaker 1: the table after breaking two ribs in the hospital in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. That was terrible. You Khalib switches off as
Speaker 1: soon as the red, red, and blue lights arrive. Khalib,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, is a big fan of law enforcement.
Speaker 1: He's a he's a staunch supporter of law enforcement and
Speaker 1: the military, and he typically calms down when he's talking
Speaker 1: to law enforcement. I don't know what. He's got a
Speaker 1: lot of bad qualities, all right, to the bitter end,
Speaker 1: Khalib is a law enforcement supporter. Yeah, uh true American
Speaker 1: Patriot thanked him. Talk to him about that. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were super cool. They were really nice. Well, but when
Speaker 1: they showed up, Yeah, like you said, Kalib, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden turns and it's just talking to them. You
Speaker 1: met them in the parking lot. Yeah, they're like, where's
Speaker 1: where you know, where's the guy we're dealing You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's me. Yeah, Yeah. They're like, all right, we're looking
Speaker 1: for that's me and they're like you and I'm like yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're like all right, let's uh and they're kind
Speaker 1: of looking me over. They were super cool. Uh. So
Speaker 1: one one comes up to me, is like typically what
Speaker 1: they do, Like if two cars came and one branches
Speaker 1: off and goes straight to me and he's like, where's
Speaker 1: the firearm. It's like it's in this trailer over here,
Speaker 1: and he walks over there, it's checks the lock. Okay,
Speaker 1: keep it secure. And you, meanwhile, were talking to the
Speaker 1: other officer. You're telling him the story and it basically
Speaker 1: comes It actually solved the entire problem because you weren't
Speaker 1: you weren't intoxicated enough to be taken in, and you
Speaker 1: weren't causing a disturbance currently. You were just threatening to yeah,
Speaker 1: and they were you know, I wasn't going to I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to get my gun and shoot anybody. I
Speaker 1: was going to get my gun, which was just in
Speaker 1: a drunk DDE doing that and wanting to go climb
Speaker 1: a mountain. It's just a bad idea. Yeah, I believe
Speaker 1: that is just a horrible idea. You're right, you want
Speaker 1: to don't know what would happen. Yeah, So so just
Speaker 1: the fact that I wanted to do that was a
Speaker 1: bad idea. But you fundamentally, it all boiled down to
Speaker 1: you have a Second Amendment right to carry, and no
Speaker 1: one was going to take that right away from you.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much what the entire thing boiled down to.
Speaker 1: It wasn't about I'm gonna go hurt somebody or I'm
Speaker 1: gonna kill myself or anyone else or shoot anything, or
Speaker 1: you just wanted to have it on you because I
Speaker 1: wasn't letting you. Yeah, and that was a problem to you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was it. Like I said, you know, you get
Speaker 1: a really really intoxicated person with one tunnel vision goal
Speaker 1: in their mind, and it just that had to happen
Speaker 1: for some reason, or that was my goal at least.
Speaker 1: So they basically told you and me go to sleep,
Speaker 1: and you listened to them, Yes, well kind of sort
Speaker 1: of sort of. You listened to him in terms of
Speaker 1: leave the gun alone. So then you went to bed
Speaker 1: and we went to bed, and then you got back up, yes,
Speaker 1: and went to the mountain. Yes, I did, And I
Speaker 1: didn't get all the way up to the mountain, so
Speaker 1: I went towards the mountain. I stopped in the middle
Speaker 1: of that big like common area, that area right there
Speaker 1: in the beginning of like the village area, and just
Speaker 1: screamed and invited whatever was gonna happen. I don't know,
Speaker 1: a fight or whatever. So but by that time, it
Speaker 1: was at like three o'clock in the morning, some random
Speaker 1: dude screaming in the middle of that little park area.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have gone down there either. It was just
Speaker 1: a little bizarre. And then I fell asleep up against
Speaker 1: a tree in that little park area right there, only
Speaker 1: for I don't know, it could have been just a
Speaker 1: handful of minutes, and then went back. You made it
Speaker 1: back by role time. I went back to the hotel room.
Speaker 1: I slept like in the closet, I believe, and then
Speaker 1: we got up and rolled. We got up and went
Speaker 1: to the Grand Canyon the next day. You that's when
Speaker 1: you realized you had a broken hand, by the way, Yes,
Speaker 1: I was on time for roll, by the way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to all you guys who deal with time, Yeah, at
Speaker 1: least I made it to that. You're on time for
Speaker 1: the role. You realize when you became sober you had
Speaker 1: broken hand. Yeah, And we went, of all places to
Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon. It was all of our first time.
Speaker 1: That goes at your first time, so all of us
Speaker 1: it was our first time to go, and it was incredible.
Speaker 1: Side note, if you haven't been to the Grand Canyon
Speaker 1: and you're wanting to travel internationally, save that first and
Speaker 1: go to the Grand Canyon because it's incredible. It's like
Speaker 1: a worldwide spectacle. You can't explain it. Pictures don't do
Speaker 1: it justice. You have to see that chasm, the depth
Speaker 1: of that. You have to see it with your own eyes,
Speaker 1: which is very ironic to go to a place like
Speaker 1: that and experience the wonder of the earth, of the
Speaker 1: planet and the depth of the planet and the space
Speaker 1: while you're dealing with what then become small problems amongst
Speaker 1: a couple friends. Yeah, and we wrote. We walked through
Speaker 1: the canyon, didn't say a word, no, started off walking
Speaker 1: together ish and then very quickly I was alone. But
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have hung out with me either. I would
Speaker 1: So I'm walking up and down the Grand Canyon out
Speaker 1: of brass because I'm hungover, uh and and just just
Speaker 1: tired and nauseous, and my hand's broken. So I stopped.
Speaker 1: There was snow there at that time, I stopped and
Speaker 1: I'd stick my hand in the snow and just sit there,
Speaker 1: and people were like walking by, They're probably like, what
Speaker 1: in the world is this guy doing, reeks about still
Speaker 1: he's just sitting on this rock with his hand in
Speaker 1: the snow, and uh. Yeah, I went down as far
Speaker 1: as I as far as I could, and then uh
Speaker 1: and then walked back up there. It's such as a
Speaker 1: bizarre I don't count that as my my Grand Canyon trip.
Speaker 1: I always tell I was told we should go see
Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon and then you know, they'd be that'd
Speaker 1: be cool to go see that together. And I don't
Speaker 1: count that trip as a Grand Canyon trip for me
Speaker 1: because hide went, I didn't really go, and my hand
Speaker 1: was broken, so it wasn't like a really good experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember, were just walking and we were alone. We
Speaker 1: weren't with you because we separated just naturally. But we
Speaker 1: weren't really talking either. No, like me and the other
Speaker 1: guys weren't talking either because everyone was A we didn't
Speaker 1: get much sleep, and B we were tired from walking
Speaker 1: and cold. It was really really cold that day in
Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon. Yes, in the in the teens, I
Speaker 1: believe or lower and and we just had a lot
Speaker 1: on her mind. You know, it was a lot to
Speaker 1: take in. It was a lot to think, well, how
Speaker 1: do we move forward as a band? Like are we
Speaker 1: ever going to be the same? And a gig again,
Speaker 1: like is Caleb gone? Is he quitting? Should we fire?
Speaker 1: Is he gonna? Is this? Is this even smart in
Speaker 1: any level to continue on? So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff kind of rolling around in our brains and as if,
Speaker 1: as in so many other times in music with me,
Speaker 1: what ultimately healed that was the first show back? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because then you reunite in making music together as a group,
Speaker 1: and each person does his part collectively for the song,
Speaker 1: and without your part, there is no song. Without any
Speaker 1: of the five parts, there's no song. So we come
Speaker 1: together collectively and contribute our piece to the music, and
Speaker 1: that naturally heals the damage that was done that night
Speaker 1: in Flagstaff. Yeah, you get to write, to work back together,
Speaker 1: and especially creatively are basically you're you're doing something creating
Speaker 1: with another person. And uh, that was always kind of therapeutic,
Speaker 1: at least for me. You guys had to play with me,
Speaker 1: so you know what I mean, Like at least for
Speaker 1: those shows. It was like we had to at least
Speaker 1: get along on stage. So, but you guys are always
Speaker 1: so more than gracious, enough, more than more than I
Speaker 1: probably would have been, And it was it was nice
Speaker 1: to to get back to that any any any kind
Speaker 1: of normalcy. So playing on stage was good, even if
Speaker 1: my hand was broke and I could barely hold that
Speaker 1: drumstick so kind of did a tape job to hold
Speaker 1: it on there. It was nice to be back with
Speaker 1: you guys. You know, like I said, you guys were
Speaker 1: never really you guys never like shunned me or anything
Speaker 1: like that, which was which was really cool. It was
Speaker 1: just how could you guys at that time, How could
Speaker 1: any of you guys understand you know at that time? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what what was causing me to be so uh so crazy?
Speaker 1: What was your what's your dad say? Because we went
Speaker 1: to the next day after Grand Canyon, we went to
Speaker 1: Colorado Spring to play that show. What did your dad
Speaker 1: say when he saw you? Uh, he asked about my hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was like. I called him right after, right after
Speaker 1: the next day and told him and that's when he
Speaker 1: was like, you're you're going to play these shows? And
Speaker 1: I was going to play him anyways, but he definitely
Speaker 1: made sure that I knew that I was going to
Speaker 1: play the shows. And then when I saw him, you know,
Speaker 1: he asked about my hand, and uh, you know, he's
Speaker 1: he he always he calls me Cabe so and uh,
Speaker 1: you know that you call me Cape and he's like Cape,
Speaker 1: I just what are you doing? You know, and this
Speaker 1: isn't the way, and and uh, you got to stop
Speaker 1: doing stuff like this, and so yeah, it was really
Speaker 1: it's really unfortunate because they they got to see Hide
Speaker 1: too on a couple of different occasions, which hurts because
Speaker 1: it's it's your family and not only they understand, you know,
Speaker 1: they knew understood the loss of Levi and Noah. So
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. You're you're terrible to whoever
Speaker 1: you're around when you're when you're like that, unfortunately. And
Speaker 1: that's one of the main things that I want to
Speaker 1: tell people who are going through grief or or or
Speaker 1: whatever you're going through in your life where you're not yourself,
Speaker 1: is that you might not be able to make it
Speaker 1: better immediately right now, but one of the best things
Speaker 1: you can do for yourself is to not make it worse,
Speaker 1: Like I made it worse. I didn't have to make
Speaker 1: it worse. My life could have kept going in a
Speaker 1: direction and slowly climbing up the hill. But so many
Speaker 1: times I'd get up a little bit, and then I
Speaker 1: would make it worse. Jordan Peterson's says that no matter
Speaker 1: how dark of a hole, no matter how the depths
Speaker 1: of hell that you have created for yourself, no matter
Speaker 1: where that is, it always could get deeper. And humans
Speaker 1: have a great way of finding a way to get
Speaker 1: deeper in the hole they've already made. Yeah, it's one
Speaker 1: hundred percent correct, and that if you would just wait.
Speaker 1: It's hard to do that at the time, obviously, but
Speaker 1: if you would just wait, things would get better. Or
Speaker 1: like when I tell people about grief, I go, it
Speaker 1: doesn't get better, it gets different, And sometimes different is
Speaker 1: the answer to prayer to what you're dealing with at
Speaker 1: that time. Just wait, don't make it any worse. That's
Speaker 1: one of my main goals in life. When I talk
Speaker 1: to people dealing with stuff, it's just that that's my
Speaker 1: That's why I tell them, don't make it any worse.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, the only thing, the only thing
Speaker 1: after river that I could tell you at that time
Speaker 1: was I don't know how to make I don't know
Speaker 1: what to tell you what to do, but I obviously
Speaker 1: showed you what doesn't work, you know, And that was
Speaker 1: that was the only thing I could tell you. And
Speaker 1: I'll never pretend to understand what that loss was like,
Speaker 1: but that was the only thing that I could say.
Speaker 1: But I remember that you saw. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: never knew what to tell you how to go forward
Speaker 1: or to do this, but you know, unfortunately I showed you.
Speaker 1: I remember what. I remember that conversation. What's crazy about
Speaker 1: your story? What the flag Staff story? And people there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people that probably understand it. There's a
Speaker 1: lot more people they're probably thinking, wow, that's that had
Speaker 1: to have been the worst thing that happened between those two,
Speaker 1: But it wasn't because something else happened later that ended
Speaker 1: up ending your drumming time with me. It was technically
Speaker 1: worse than flag Staff and that ended our relationship, me
Speaker 1: being singer and you being drummer. It's spun off into
Speaker 1: where you are now. I don't want to get into
Speaker 1: that now because I think we should do another podcast
Speaker 1: about that, and if you guys want to hear how
Speaker 1: Caleb and I got to hear comment below if you're
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube. But believe it or not, we were
Speaker 1: temporarily healed in Colorado Springs after Flagstaff, and we did
Speaker 1: get better and we played a lot more shows, and
Speaker 1: we traveled a lot more. Yeah, and then it got
Speaker 1: worse again in a different way, and it ended up
Speaker 1: being the destruction of us on the stage. And then
Speaker 1: the introduction of Dusty Saxon, who's my current drummer, who
Speaker 1: introduced me to you this first. Yeah, Dusty introduced me
Speaker 1: to Caleb, and then Caleb replaced Dusty when things got
Speaker 1: worse again. And that's a whole different story and a
Speaker 1: really good one, and a whole different podcast and a
Speaker 1: whole different form of grief for you. And I want
Speaker 1: to also say that through all this, I've trusted you
Speaker 1: with me, me and my life, and I've trusted you
Speaker 1: with my family because you and your wife now have
Speaker 1: been I have spent much a lot of time with
Speaker 1: my family, and I trust you as as my own brother.
Speaker 1: And people are probably just scratching their heads right now,
Speaker 1: going how did the worst relationship? Yeah, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that is probably funny. To
Speaker 1: some people, it's like, what does there's no there's no
Speaker 1: explaining explaining, you know, because you don't get anything from
Speaker 1: me other than our our friendship. Like I can't do
Speaker 1: a lot for you. No, you're a great warehouse manager.
Speaker 1: Well you're really good at it. Wow, thank you. I
Speaker 1: have an affinity for corrugated paper. If you guys want
Speaker 1: to hear more from Caleb, comment blows say we want
Speaker 1: more Caleb, and we'll do another podcast and explo plane that. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's more. There's not the rest of the story because
Speaker 1: there's more and then there's more layers and it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: But thank you, dude for being the onion of a man.
Speaker 1: I think you've got management to do in the warehouse.
Speaker 1: So working, Yeah, yeah, you're working all right. See you guys,
Speaker 1: love you. Mm hmmm