Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep within
Speaker 1: the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star in Fresco,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like Dde Lamb and now your hosts Brian
Speaker 1: brought us, David Hellman, Bucky Brooks, and Kyle Yeomans just
Speaker 1: sixty five days to the NFL Draft on April twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. As we are just around the corner
Speaker 1: from what would have been Combine Week in the NFL,
Speaker 1: but we are going to talk through it here on
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Kyle Yeomans, Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: David Helman will be soon to be joined by Brian
Speaker 1: brought us coming up here in the next couple of moments.
Speaker 1: But guys, sixty five days, it's the Draft Show presented
Speaker 1: by Miller Lite. That's always been in the case, But
Speaker 1: I mean, it's now crunch time for these scouting departments.
Speaker 1: We're getting into the nitty gritty, Bucky, because hey, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of evaluations still to go for a lot
Speaker 1: of these prospects. The lists have been made, now it's
Speaker 1: really time to fill them out. A little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the list have been made, but I mean there's so
Speaker 1: many guys to talk about and discuss, and what you're
Speaker 1: trying to do is you're trying to get all the
Speaker 1: information right, You're trying to get all the background information.
Speaker 1: You're trying to get any too physical stuff that you
Speaker 1: can get on them, and you're trying to make sure
Speaker 1: that the profile is complete so you can stack these guys,
Speaker 1: you can separate the top guys from the guys that
Speaker 1: are right in the middle of the pack and beyond.
Speaker 1: And so it is a huge challenge. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of weight to bear if your front office, particularly because
Speaker 1: you don't have to combine and some of the other
Speaker 1: things that you used to having. Dave, how much of
Speaker 1: a challenge is this going to be for the Cowboys
Speaker 1: front office specifically, because I mean, whenever you look at
Speaker 1: in the past, the combine has certainly played a big
Speaker 1: factor of the Senior Bowl as well. I mean we've
Speaker 1: talked plenty about the Senior Bowl and how there's probably
Speaker 1: gonna be some guys from that group that are going
Speaker 1: to be in Dallas. But Will would playing his staff,
Speaker 1: I mean, they have a tough task ahead of them.
Speaker 1: Of trying to figure out how to evaluate these college prospects.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about opt outs and all sorts of
Speaker 1: different wrenches and curveballs that have been thrown into this thing,
Speaker 1: but it continues to be crazy. I'm really I'm really
Speaker 1: sad right now now, Kyle, because as we sit here,
Speaker 1: you know, I know not everybody listens live, but we
Speaker 1: are recording this at ten am Dallas time on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: And if it was a normal year, we would be
Speaker 1: in a cab right now on our way to downtown Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: Because Tuesday is kind of the unofficial start of the
Speaker 1: Combine Week. We would probably be heading right to the JW.
Speaker 1: Marriott to go try to talk to Stephen Jones, which
Speaker 1: is always kind of the start of Combine Week. And
Speaker 1: it just bums me out because you know, I always
Speaker 1: talk about the draft process as like it's like a
Speaker 1: roadmap or if you play video games, you know how
Speaker 1: you kind of like uncover the map as you go along,
Speaker 1: and you just you don't have a lot of that
Speaker 1: stuff that helps you do that. Like when you go
Speaker 1: to the combine obviously you have the workouts and the measurements,
Speaker 1: and we always say you don't want to fall in
Speaker 1: love with that too much. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it helps you differentiate between these players, you know, whether
Speaker 1: that's arm length or forty time or the three cone time,
Speaker 1: helping you figure out, you know, who's got the burst
Speaker 1: to get around the corner, that type of stuff. And
Speaker 1: then also this is where you start hearing about team
Speaker 1: zeroing in on guys, whether that's because they take the
Speaker 1: time to sit down with them on an official interview
Speaker 1: or you kind of say, oh, wait, well, you know,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys only have sixty interviews and they're talking to
Speaker 1: ten quarterbacks. That's that's something you know, and we just
Speaker 1: don't have that this year, which means you have to
Speaker 1: cast that much wider of a net. You know, you
Speaker 1: have to you have to consider more guys than you
Speaker 1: would probably need to in a normal year, honestly, and
Speaker 1: it's it's just kind of frustrating. Is it more frustrating,
Speaker 1: Bucky from a media standpoint this year than it normally
Speaker 1: has been? Because I know, especially you guys at the
Speaker 1: NFL network, you get unprecedented access, and sure every media
Speaker 1: member has some level of access, but is it more
Speaker 1: frustrating to try and put that piece together also with
Speaker 1: kind of the networking that goes on. I know I
Speaker 1: was looking forward to going back a second year because
Speaker 1: of some of the connections we made last year at
Speaker 1: the draft that kind of gave you some of that
Speaker 1: information and you get to see these prospects with your
Speaker 1: own eyes and ask these questions. But how frustrating is
Speaker 1: it not only from a media perspective, but just an
Speaker 1: overall general standpoint. Well, I mean, I think it's frustrating
Speaker 1: on a bunch of different levels. I think this the
Speaker 1: combine is really the NFL convention. It is the one
Speaker 1: time that everyone is in the same city, in the
Speaker 1: same location. Coaches, scouts, media members, everyone is there, and
Speaker 1: so it's the one time that you can catch up
Speaker 1: with everybody on all things related to football, whether it's
Speaker 1: college or the NFL. And so, yeah, I am frustrated
Speaker 1: that you do miss out on some of those conversations
Speaker 1: and the conversations that would take place in front of
Speaker 1: the mic, but those conversations that you would have at restaurants,
Speaker 1: in those things when you catch people with their hair
Speaker 1: down a little bit, and so I think missing that
Speaker 1: part of it, not being able to kind of follow
Speaker 1: some of the bread crumbs that would be dropped along
Speaker 1: the way. That makes it challenging because people would kind
Speaker 1: of give you indicators on who they liked and what
Speaker 1: they liked and how the league is trending. We won't
Speaker 1: get any of that, and you can't get that information
Speaker 1: from tax and sometimes phone calls, which and just to
Speaker 1: kind of go off that point, you know, And obviously
Speaker 1: we love you know, we love to say investigate and educate,
Speaker 1: and that's absolutely what we'll keep doing. But my whole
Speaker 1: thing is like as a as a Cowboys reporter who
Speaker 1: also reports on the draft, I care a lot less
Speaker 1: how I feel about guys and a lot more how
Speaker 1: the Cowboys front office feels about guys. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: who cares at the end of the day, if I
Speaker 1: like Caleb Barley more than Patrick's or Tan, you know,
Speaker 1: because if the Cowboys they well, thank you, Kyle, But
Speaker 1: the Cowboys don't. I've learned that over the last eight
Speaker 1: years is that they definitely they definitely don't care what
Speaker 1: I think. So I'd much rather get a better idea
Speaker 1: of what they think. And Bucky's absolutely right, you know,
Speaker 1: showing up at showing up at Saint Elmo's or Kilroy's
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock at night and talking to people after
Speaker 1: they've had a couple of beers. It's a great way
Speaker 1: to get an idea about what they're thinking, or who
Speaker 1: they like or who they don't like. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you the number of times, and to be fair, scouts
Speaker 1: in front office people love to know more than you,
Speaker 1: and they do most of the time, but like they're
Speaker 1: not going to give you the satisfaction of thinking that
Speaker 1: you had a good idea very often. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how many times I've gone out at the Combine
Speaker 1: and somebody's like, oh, yeah, you media types, I don't
Speaker 1: know why you're still talking about that guy, like or
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know why y'all are also
Speaker 1: in love with that guy, you know? Like that is
Speaker 1: that's like a rite of passage every year at the
Speaker 1: Combine is finding out that all your favorite players can't play.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's it's valuable information that you
Speaker 1: get when you're hot nomen around Indie and Bucky's absolutely right,
Speaker 1: like you can text and call people all you want,
Speaker 1: but it's it's not quite the same and it definitely
Speaker 1: hampers the process. Bucky have you ever scouted shamed the
Speaker 1: media member in your day, back in the day before
Speaker 1: you were a medium. No, no, no, no, I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I think I think it's interesting. I think
Speaker 1: the conversation's interesting, particularly if you had a couple of
Speaker 1: adult beverages and people are really having no about what
Speaker 1: I call unfiltered, unfiltered conversations. I think it's good, but
Speaker 1: I think it's also good like being on the scout
Speaker 1: part of it. This is the first time that you've
Speaker 1: been around a bunch of guys, and a lot of
Speaker 1: times at the comment while we were watching workouts, you
Speaker 1: have a group of guys that are just having open
Speaker 1: conversations about players and hey, what do you think about
Speaker 1: this dude? And what do you think about that dude?
Speaker 1: And I didn't like that? What have you seen him
Speaker 1: in this game? I watched him play versus this? You
Speaker 1: should go back and check that out. Sometimes you kind
Speaker 1: of need to bounce some ideas and some thoughts of
Speaker 1: others just to either I mean, maybe some of his
Speaker 1: self validation, but just confirmed like, oh, okay, I'm not crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm not the only one who may have a big
Speaker 1: grade on this guy, or maybe I do need to
Speaker 1: think about it this way. Not this necessarily changes you,
Speaker 1: but you want to be challenged a little bit to
Speaker 1: make sure that you end up getting your right based
Speaker 1: on your own opinion at the end of the day. Now,
Speaker 1: from a complete standpoint, and we've talked about this previously
Speaker 1: with kind of a Senior Bowl and other evaluation process events,
Speaker 1: but whenever it comes to guys touching the tags, and
Speaker 1: we're going to spend a lot of time today kind
Speaker 1: of split up by Twitter on the twenty of talking
Speaker 1: about guys touching tags. But how much of an impact
Speaker 1: does the combine play on some of those guys that
Speaker 1: are so close on your chart and your draft board
Speaker 1: to each other that it's kind of tough to decipher
Speaker 1: and you need every single piece of information because I mean,
Speaker 1: we've already talked about it and Dave throughout the names earlier.
Speaker 1: Kayla Farley, Patrick's ter Tan. I think those are probably
Speaker 1: the two guys that right now, especially in the fans
Speaker 1: or the minds of Cowboys fans, are the potential picks
Speaker 1: at ten and a lot of those have their tags touching.
Speaker 1: So what are we missing with Kayla Farley and Patrick's
Speaker 1: r Tan This week? Both corners Virginia tach Alabama respectively,
Speaker 1: that have these tags touching, but have to have a
Speaker 1: little bit of that evaluation process maybe to decipher between
Speaker 1: the two. Well, one thing that to combine and provides
Speaker 1: you as the opportunity to watch them work out back
Speaker 1: to back. Now, depending on where their letters of their
Speaker 1: last name befall, you might have an opportunity to see
Speaker 1: those guys work out literally behind each other, and being
Speaker 1: able to do that one on one compare contrast in
Speaker 1: terms of how they back on, how they break and drive,
Speaker 1: who flips the hips, who's more explosive, who jumps higher.
Speaker 1: To take all of that information on top of what
Speaker 1: you've seen on tape, it can help you kind of
Speaker 1: separate which camp you're on. And I think we missed
Speaker 1: that because there's one thing to go to Virginia Tech
Speaker 1: and watch Cayla Farley workout, then to go to Alabama
Speaker 1: a couple of days later. It's another thing to watch
Speaker 1: it happen in real time. And we can take those
Speaker 1: things or whatever. But there's a feel that you get
Speaker 1: when you see guys go back to back that can
Speaker 1: help you kind of cast at deciding vote. We missed
Speaker 1: that and so yeah, we can look at the Pro
Speaker 1: day numbers. The Pro Day's numbers would be different because
Speaker 1: they're taking a different places measured by different guys. But
Speaker 1: at the combine, the playing field is level, and so
Speaker 1: it helps you separate who you really like versus, hey,
Speaker 1: this guy should be below this other guy. Hey, Bucky,
Speaker 1: let me let me sorry, Kyle, let me ask you
Speaker 1: a hypothetical, buck because I already said it, and you
Speaker 1: know people call it the underwear Olympics. You always try
Speaker 1: to guard against falling in love with guys at the combine,
Speaker 1: But you think about you know, Cayla Farley, great example,
Speaker 1: Micah Parsons, Jamar Chase, what do you think would happen
Speaker 1: if these guys were able to go to the combine
Speaker 1: and light it up the way that you would guess
Speaker 1: that they would do. You think that would weigh more heavily,
Speaker 1: Like maybe maybe it is a good thing that you
Speaker 1: don't have this as a as a way of offsetting
Speaker 1: the lack of taper or whatever. I guess is. You know,
Speaker 1: if these guys show up and have an amazing workout,
Speaker 1: do you think it would it would impress people more
Speaker 1: than a normal year. I guess That's what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say. It would serve as a reminder. If we
Speaker 1: saw Michael Parsons going light it up, it would remind
Speaker 1: us like, oh, you know what I like this year.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe maybe he's not so bad because
Speaker 1: he said out a year Jamar Chase running round stagging balls.
Speaker 1: It's a reminder. It brings you back to the forefront.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it would be a great opportunity Caleb
Speaker 1: Farley because he hasn't played a while, but we've seen
Speaker 1: Patrick stan the second play this year. But if he
Speaker 1: goes out there and he moves around and he looks,
Speaker 1: you're more apt to how to fall back in love
Speaker 1: with him. And so without that, you don't have that ability.
Speaker 1: And sometimes there are guys that do things that really
Speaker 1: amaze you, Like last year Tristan Worf's all the work
Speaker 1: that he was able to do right you see him
Speaker 1: as a right tackle only at Iowa, but then you
Speaker 1: see the athleticism and all the traits, and then you
Speaker 1: dig into the background. He was a state champion discus
Speaker 1: thrower and state champion wrestler, and you put all of
Speaker 1: those things together and then you see him play this
Speaker 1: year and he's the starting right tackle for the super
Speaker 1: Bowl champion, and so it can remind you on some
Speaker 1: of these athletic traits that you do know that are essential.
Speaker 1: And even though we kind of ding and dog ay
Speaker 1: it's the underwear limpus, it doesn't really matter. In some cases,
Speaker 1: it does because you've seen those games where you see
Speaker 1: the athleticism play out in real time in front of you.
Speaker 1: You want those explosive athletes like it's a beauty paget
Speaker 1: and in the draft, I want the prettiest I want
Speaker 1: the prettiest girl like I wanted so I wanted. I
Speaker 1: want him to have it all. I want him to
Speaker 1: be the most talented. I wanted to win the swimsuit edition.
Speaker 1: I want it all. So that's what the combine gives
Speaker 1: you an opportunity to see it. It's a good way
Speaker 1: to put it, Bucky, I like it. And from here
Speaker 1: is where the roadmap really kind of starts to narrow
Speaker 1: and you start to kind of get that that certain
Speaker 1: idea of who is the prettiest girl at the ball,
Speaker 1: you know, Bucky, I mean you got to find a
Speaker 1: way to evaluate that process previously. But I want to
Speaker 1: hear a roadmap and a thought process for some of
Speaker 1: these specific guys, and throughout the rest of this segment,
Speaker 1: and in the third segment, we're gonna do some buyer sell.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about guys that we know those
Speaker 1: tags are touching and allow really those at home to
Speaker 1: have that same kind of evaluation process with us, because
Speaker 1: they're going to wait and watch the pro DA's kind
Speaker 1: of like what we are, because right now would have
Speaker 1: all these evaluations, the combine and all sorts of things,
Speaker 1: and then we would go and try and add on
Speaker 1: to that with the pro das well. The pro days
Speaker 1: are it and that starts pretty much March fifth, I
Speaker 1: think is really the first real big pro day. I
Speaker 1: know Trevor Lawrence has already done his individual workout that's
Speaker 1: a specific case. But what guys right now that you
Speaker 1: guys have looked at might be right there on that
Speaker 1: touching tags. They're right next to each other that you
Speaker 1: really need to see more of in order to try
Speaker 1: and make a fair decision. I mean, like, there's so
Speaker 1: many ways to go. I think here's what's interesting, right,
Speaker 1: The more you dig into the wide receiver class, the
Speaker 1: more that you're like, my gosh, you can get a
Speaker 1: wide receiver at any level of the draft. Like they're
Speaker 1: guys that we haven't even talked about. We've been doing
Speaker 1: the show for a few months, Like Elijah More from
Speaker 1: O Miss like just running around or whatever, and like
Speaker 1: there's barely been a peep set about him. Amandros st
Speaker 1: Brown from USC who is as talented as they come,
Speaker 1: maybe a natural slot receiver that we haven't talked about.
Speaker 1: And so as we begin to kind of break this out,
Speaker 1: there's so many prospects to discuss that are kind of
Speaker 1: under the radar. Then when we get to draft weekend,
Speaker 1: we're gonna hear their name called be like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I liked him, but I forgot to talk about him,
Speaker 1: you know, like those kinds of things, And that's what
Speaker 1: I think we're kind of missing. But the combine his
Speaker 1: debt would enable us to have some of these conversations
Speaker 1: about guys that we just haven't got to because we
Speaker 1: tend to focus on kind of the brand names, the
Speaker 1: big guys, which and to go off that, I mean,
Speaker 1: any any position where there's a bunch of guys that
Speaker 1: I like. I mean, we already talked about Farley in Certan.
Speaker 1: I think that's the most obvious one because I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a true that's a true coin flip
Speaker 1: as far as who could be the pick at number ten?
Speaker 1: But how about you know, how about the conversation that
Speaker 1: you have about a linebacker like you know, if if
Speaker 1: Jeremiah Usu Coromoa could go to the combine and just
Speaker 1: run a badass forty time, what would that do for
Speaker 1: his draft stock? You know, would would we be more
Speaker 1: willing to talk about him as a candidate at number
Speaker 1: ten if he really put forth to speed and measurables
Speaker 1: to maybe play safety or at least be more of
Speaker 1: a hybrid player. How about you know, to take it
Speaker 1: to safety. I'm thinking of Jeff Kavanaugh's guy, or Darius Washington,
Speaker 1: the TCU safety. Jeff would draft him in. Jeff would
Speaker 1: drop him in the first round. I don't know that
Speaker 1: many people that, But again they would trade up to
Speaker 1: five and go again. Well yeah, but imagine if it
Speaker 1: could be as simple, you know, you go to the
Speaker 1: combine and do a full list of workouts, you measure in.
Speaker 1: If he measures in at five ten, maybe people are
Speaker 1: a lot higher on him than they were. If he
Speaker 1: measures in at five eight and a half, maybe people
Speaker 1: ding him a little bit like that's when you're talking
Speaker 1: about you know, broad broad Us always talks about ice
Speaker 1: cream flavors. It just helps you expand your palette where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I really like that guy, but he
Speaker 1: doesn't have the length for me to want to draft
Speaker 1: him in the top fifty. Um. Yeah, So it's so
Speaker 1: it's funny you talk about that, Dave so and speaking specifically,
Speaker 1: what about the pass rush, right, because there's kind of
Speaker 1: this uncertainty about all of these guys. Is it Gregory Rousseau,
Speaker 1: Quitty pay Um, so many guys that you want to
Speaker 1: talk about that you want to see that you you
Speaker 1: what I mean? I kind of like him, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if the twitsch really translates it. Can he
Speaker 1: really get out to the quarterback? How tall is he?
Speaker 1: Does he have long arms? Is he more of a
Speaker 1: three or four guy that we want to stand up
Speaker 1: and play in space? Or oh no, this is a
Speaker 1: guy he only can have his hand in the dirt.
Speaker 1: Those things we won't necessarily get a chance to see.
Speaker 1: As you begin to watch him back to back to
Speaker 1: back to back to back with some of their competitors
Speaker 1: at the position, it just sucks because and these guys
Speaker 1: will have protas, but it's not quite the same for me.
Speaker 1: Guys Brian and Bucky can tell you guys typically tend
Speaker 1: to do better on their home field. But I talk
Speaker 1: about this all the time, right, Like, I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: finding value in the second round. I'm like, Okay, make
Speaker 1: the smartest pick possible at ten, but let's find some
Speaker 1: real value in the second round. A guy that I love,
Speaker 1: Georgia's Tyson Campbell. We talk we talk about him as
Speaker 1: a guy who's got the athleticism to maybe go as
Speaker 1: high as the first round, which maybe I love the
Speaker 1: fact that he can't work out at the combine because
Speaker 1: if he can't run, maybe he slips a little bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't have that amazing combine that bumps him
Speaker 1: up into that range. Maybe without that more complete profile.
Speaker 1: He's a guy that you could get at forty four.
Speaker 1: So if you don't take Farley or Certain, you can
Speaker 1: still get a really quality guy like they did last
Speaker 1: year with treyvon Dis. But if he shows up an
Speaker 1: Indie and runs an amazing forty time, that's probably off
Speaker 1: the table. So I'm trying to talk myself into this
Speaker 1: maybe being a good thing that you know, your teams
Speaker 1: just have to trust the tape a little bit more
Speaker 1: than they normally would, which it's kind of scary, but
Speaker 1: if you do your job the right way, it could
Speaker 1: also be really fun. See, I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: necessarily scary, right, I don't know if it's necessarily scary
Speaker 1: that you don't have the workouts to consider, because what
Speaker 1: happens is a lot of times you have to remember,
Speaker 1: this is the first time the coaches have really had
Speaker 1: real exposure to him, and there's nothing more that a
Speaker 1: coach loves than to take on. Hey, just give me
Speaker 1: to him. I'll get him right. Like give me the
Speaker 1: big explosive athlete, I'll fix him. I'll get him right.
Speaker 1: He just hasn't been coached the right way. Whereas when
Speaker 1: you've studied the tape, the tape is how you play
Speaker 1: and like typically, like I'm the tape is your DNA,
Speaker 1: like what you more times than not, what you see
Speaker 1: on tape is exactly what the players going to do
Speaker 1: in the league. Like, they don't typically change a whole lot,
Speaker 1: and so it's a matter of putting them in the
Speaker 1: right situation. So for the teams that rely on the
Speaker 1: tape to teams that just dig into the tape and
Speaker 1: ignore some of the numbers and those things, they're gonna
Speaker 1: be finding this process. Those who really love the numbers
Speaker 1: and man, the New York Giants should to do the
Speaker 1: box test and all this other stuff and everything that
Speaker 1: was about the metrics and all that. Those are the
Speaker 1: teams that would have more trouble without the workouts, because
Speaker 1: that's a huge part of their evaluation puzzle. It's always
Speaker 1: going to be a big part of it. Now I
Speaker 1: kind of want to talk about linebackers a little bit
Speaker 1: more because I feel like more and more Dave people
Speaker 1: are starting to get on the Jeremiah Lucy core Moorea
Speaker 1: trade and I'm not against this. I mean, maybe at
Speaker 1: ten I'm against it, but trade down. Sure, there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations here, but there's also Zaban Collins
Speaker 1: out of Tulsa who's been kind of thrown into that
Speaker 1: makes of like a mid first round pick and somebody
Speaker 1: at a linebacker spot that you could potentially go look at.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a twitter on the twenty question that
Speaker 1: has to deal with it, but I'm gonna go ahead
Speaker 1: and kind of move it up because we're talking about
Speaker 1: some of these tags touching. I think a Lucu Corp
Speaker 1: Moore is a better player. I've seen Collins as maybe
Speaker 1: a tack toucher whenever it comes to those two guys.
Speaker 1: But what would you guys do if there were a
Speaker 1: linebacker taken at ten instead of a secondary player or
Speaker 1: instead of maybe an offensive tackle. I would just I
Speaker 1: want to I've actually I thought about this yesterday Kyle
Speaker 1: and again investigat and educate, like maybe we aren't maybe
Speaker 1: we aren't super high on the guy. You know, we
Speaker 1: talked earlier in the draft cycle about character concerns with
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons, but like you gotta throw, you gotta include
Speaker 1: his name, and like, of the sure, I feel like
Speaker 1: half dozen guys that we really have circled as possible
Speaker 1: at number ten, Parsons is probably the one that we've
Speaker 1: talked about the least, like we've probably just in our
Speaker 1: minds said like okay, no way, I don't think you
Speaker 1: can necessarily do that. And I think people are people
Speaker 1: are kind of coming back around on him. So all
Speaker 1: three of those, UM, I guess your question is, what
Speaker 1: would what would the pick be or what would my
Speaker 1: reaction be if the pick was a linebacker. UM. I
Speaker 1: guess it depends on who it is. But I'm intrigued
Speaker 1: by O those who Coromoa mainly because of versatility. And
Speaker 1: that's if I'm and Parsons as well for that matter,
Speaker 1: Like if I'm drafting a linebacker in that position, I
Speaker 1: want versatility. You know, Parsons can rush the passer. Coromoa
Speaker 1: can cover, maybe play some safety. He goes down in
Speaker 1: the slot. Um, So if you're giving me a guy
Speaker 1: that's that versatile, I'm not opposed to it at all,
Speaker 1: but I'd rather draft it. I'd rather draft one of
Speaker 1: the cornerbacks I think. I think with linebackers, and the
Speaker 1: discussion will be had about off the ball linebackers and
Speaker 1: their impact or whatever. I think now more than ever,
Speaker 1: if you take a guy on the second level high
Speaker 1: in the draft, he has to be able to impact
Speaker 1: the game in a variety of ways. He not only
Speaker 1: has to be able to be a sideline and sideline enforcer,
Speaker 1: but he has to be able to give you something
Speaker 1: in terms of production against the pass, whether that's in coverage,
Speaker 1: whether that's as a sacker, all those things. I think
Speaker 1: we talked about Devin White right and quietly Devin White
Speaker 1: may have had nine sacks or whatever, like that's the
Speaker 1: kind of production that you're talking about. Okay, well that's
Speaker 1: worth that's worthy of being a top five selection. The
Speaker 1: conversation with Michael Parsons, and I am guilty of it
Speaker 1: because I went on here and absolutely stained his name
Speaker 1: when we had one of the early shows. The character concerns,
Speaker 1: like when I talk when we talk about the character stuff,
Speaker 1: the character stuff is really immaturity. But then having a
Speaker 1: conversation with James Franklin or whatever, like the kid graduated
Speaker 1: in three years, which speaks to his ability to focus
Speaker 1: and take care of business in the classroom. And then
Speaker 1: you get around the program and you know he's a
Speaker 1: really good player. And then you watch the tape and
Speaker 1: you see a freak athlete who can come downhill, who
Speaker 1: plays heavy hand, and he has a nasty disposition and
Speaker 1: you're like, well, you know, like maybe because he's been
Speaker 1: out of sight this year, it's been easy to kind
Speaker 1: of pile on and you just don't give him. What
Speaker 1: you should in terms of give him is just do
Speaker 1: in terms of the player to think about a Woosu
Speaker 1: core Moore need to see him at a comment because
Speaker 1: you need to know how bad he is in terms
Speaker 1: of size, because Darius Leonard is a guy who arguably
Speaker 1: is one of the best linebackers in football, but for
Speaker 1: the Indianapolis Coats, by the end of the season, he's
Speaker 1: playing at two fifteen, you know, two seventeen, which is
Speaker 1: really light, but he's really good. Well, Core Moore, how
Speaker 1: big is he and what is he going to play like?
Speaker 1: Because there's some people that say maybe he's in the
Speaker 1: low twos at the end of the year, and that
Speaker 1: makes a huge difference when you're thinking about him inside
Speaker 1: the box as opposed to side the box as a
Speaker 1: hybrid player. And so those things will have to be
Speaker 1: determined when you get a chance to see those guys
Speaker 1: work out. And then with Collins, what is his best
Speaker 1: position because you see him play inside almost like as
Speaker 1: a traditional mic but he's better served to kind of
Speaker 1: play outside as a sam linebacker in those Let me
Speaker 1: ask you this, Bucky real quick, um, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of what I just said about Parsons. I'm definitely guilty
Speaker 1: of doing this, Like under the old regime, especially with
Speaker 1: Rod Marinelli. You just you can just cross names off
Speaker 1: the list in January, you know, you're like like, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this this guy's a one technique. Yeah, I don't even
Speaker 1: need to watch his table. No, I'm and I get
Speaker 1: that with Zavin Collins, where I'm like, this guy is
Speaker 1: clearly a hell of a player, but he is a
Speaker 1: big guy. I mean he's six three, two sixty, you know,
Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty pounds. That does not look like
Speaker 1: the type of linebacker that dan Quinn would draft. To me,
Speaker 1: do you think I'm wrong about that? No? I think
Speaker 1: I think you're right about that. He reminds me a
Speaker 1: lot of the ye that came out of Vanderbilt a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, Zach Cunning him. Remember Zach Kunning
Speaker 1: him Big from Vanderbilt Big. I don't say he was
Speaker 1: a lumberer, but he was kind of like a throwback
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies linebacker, right, big, heavy handed or whatever. Zavian
Speaker 1: Collins kind of strikes me as that when you think
Speaker 1: about this defense and what dan Quinn has traditionally done,
Speaker 1: first in Seattle, then when you see what they were
Speaker 1: able to do in Atlanta. He wants fast guys, vision
Speaker 1: and break guys, and the size wasn't as big of
Speaker 1: a fact that it was more speed, instincts, reactions, How
Speaker 1: quick can they get to the ball? Can they create disruption?
Speaker 1: So I don't think you're wrong when you say I
Speaker 1: don't know if Xavier and Collins is a fit for
Speaker 1: how they want to play, because in my mind, Zavian
Speaker 1: Collins is going to run around like Jalen Smith. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if Jalen Smith is a fifth in
Speaker 1: the defense in terms of the speed or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I know he is as critical as anybody else of
Speaker 1: his game, but from a critical over year, I just
Speaker 1: don't know sideline the sideline if he's that kind of player.
Speaker 1: And so it remains to be seen what this looks
Speaker 1: like when DQ gets his hands on his defense. Well,
Speaker 1: now Zavian Collins is completely tanked in every mind of everything.
Speaker 1: It's over. It's done. If Zamon Collins is picked to ten,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be riots in the streets in Arlington and
Speaker 1: Frisco and Dallas all over the place. Goodness, gracious, I
Speaker 1: love it, Bucky. I mean, you're not wrong, You're exactly what.
Speaker 1: You're exactly right in saying that that's why you need
Speaker 1: the specific type of player. And I know player over
Speaker 1: scheme BPA. He could talk all about all of those things,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, there is a fine line
Speaker 1: that you have to walk, and if Zavin Collins doesn't
Speaker 1: fit what dan Quinn wants to do defensively, then most
Speaker 1: likely he's not going to end up being the pick.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know if necessarily he could be there. Now.
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons could be that pick, and you could also
Speaker 1: throw Jeremiah us Core more at least in the conversation,
Speaker 1: but Zaven Collins just doesn't look like that type of player,
Speaker 1: being the six four and fifty pound linebacker in which
Speaker 1: he should be measured to be whenever we get to
Speaker 1: Tulsa Pro Day. But we're gonna step aside. When we
Speaker 1: come back. We're gonna do some Twitter on the twenty.
Speaker 1: We already answered one from our guy Jake because of
Speaker 1: the linebacker question. But when we come back, we'll answer
Speaker 1: some more of your questions and roll on here on
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show presented by Miller Laite.
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show back here on
Speaker 1: the second segment here of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: Draft Show, presented by Miller Light. Got Chris Beam, We've
Speaker 1: got Bucky Brooks, David Hellman, and Brian brought us normally
Speaker 1: joining us here at this point. We're gonna try and
Speaker 1: get him on here in a couple of moments. But
Speaker 1: sign now to get into another edition of some Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty on the twenty sounder in the back,
Speaker 1: of course, brought to you by Chris Beam. So let's
Speaker 1: go into some Twitter on the twenty And this one
Speaker 1: is from Matt Thomas, and he's actually asked a Dak
Speaker 1: Prescott question, and I know we're all just rary to
Speaker 1: go to talk about Dak Prescott a little bit more
Speaker 1: on these Dallas Cowboys dot Com podcasts, because that's exactly
Speaker 1: what we want to do with our day. But Matt
Speaker 1: Thomas does ask. He said, last year, dak Or's agent
Speaker 1: wanted a four year deal. If this year they want
Speaker 1: a three year deal and you sign him, could Dallas
Speaker 1: still consider a quarterback at pick number ten if Lance's
Speaker 1: lance is there first year of the deal for Dak
Speaker 1: is back from injury. So basically his question is is
Speaker 1: the opposite thinking of what normally you would think is
Speaker 1: if there's no deal, draft a quarterback. And we've talked
Speaker 1: about that on this show. He's saying, even if there
Speaker 1: is a deal, do you still think about taking the
Speaker 1: quarterback at ten day? Absolutely not. If I mean, if
Speaker 1: if Dak is under contract for multiple years, then you know,
Speaker 1: with all due respect to the Green Bay Packers, they
Speaker 1: are a very well run organization. I just think that's
Speaker 1: a terrible idea. And yeah, maybe maybe the Packers don't
Speaker 1: win the NFC Championship if they draft a receiver in
Speaker 1: the first round, maybe they don't draft a receiver at all.
Speaker 1: Maybe they draft a defender who helps their defense play
Speaker 1: that much better. And get Tom Brady off the field. Like,
Speaker 1: if you have a quarterback who is at the top,
Speaker 1: you know, at the top of his position, doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be the best. But if he's in the top handful,
Speaker 1: which I think Dak is, then you got to use
Speaker 1: a pick like that to make the rest of your
Speaker 1: roster better. Like I mean, and I like like I said,
Speaker 1: I mean, quarterbacks are always valuable. If you were to
Speaker 1: draft trade Lands at number ten, he's a great insurance policy.
Speaker 1: Maybe he helps you in the future, maybe you can
Speaker 1: trade him down the line, like the Patriots thing with
Speaker 1: Jimmy Garoppolo. I get it. But if the goal is
Speaker 1: to make the NFC Championship and beyond for the first
Speaker 1: time in thirty years, a guy who's not supposed to
Speaker 1: play ain't helping you do that. So the only way
Speaker 1: I'm considering a quarterback is if they can't get Dak signed.
Speaker 1: That's just me. Okay. So here's the thing. I'll play
Speaker 1: devil's advocate on this, because we talk about the quarterback
Speaker 1: position being the most important position football, yet we don't
Speaker 1: want to commit big time resources. So let's just imagine
Speaker 1: that we did have an even better quarterback behind Dak
Speaker 1: Prescott when he got injured, instead of doing the revolving
Speaker 1: door with Ben Jannucci and Gilbert and then Andy Dalton,
Speaker 1: say you had a young, dynamic playmaker that was there.
Speaker 1: You do wonder how many other wins would have been
Speaker 1: in the hopper for that. But to your point, David,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense for the Cowboys to do that.
Speaker 1: I just want to throw that out there. It doesn't
Speaker 1: really make sense for them to do the quarterback thing
Speaker 1: unless Dak is not signed to a long term deal.
Speaker 1: And I think it's gonna be interesting because man, I
Speaker 1: used to be decided like, oh, they'll get it done.
Speaker 1: Now I'm fifty to fifty because when you think about
Speaker 1: the money and what could take place, and the two
Speaker 1: franchise tags and the forty four percent increase on next
Speaker 1: year's tag if they tag him, I just think this
Speaker 1: has to be a situation where you look at it
Speaker 1: and if he is not signed to the tag early,
Speaker 1: if he doesn't do a long term deal by the
Speaker 1: beginning of April, I think you have to put the
Speaker 1: quarterback in play because you just don't know if he's
Speaker 1: going to be in the mix for years to come.
Speaker 1: And when you look at the teams that are going
Speaker 1: deep in the playoffs, they're teams with guys that are
Speaker 1: pretty much playing on rickie deals, Like the quarterback is
Speaker 1: on a rookie deal because you can build out the
Speaker 1: rest of the team. And so I just wonder if
Speaker 1: that's the role that we're heading when it comes to
Speaker 1: that position, how you which? And nobody, I say this
Speaker 1: every time, nobody loves that more than me. I want
Speaker 1: that to be the future of this franchise. But I'm
Speaker 1: with you. You. I mean, if you can't get this done,
Speaker 1: then you've got to find a way to take advantage
Speaker 1: of being in this position in the draft. And what
Speaker 1: terrifies me, what absolutely terrifies me, is if they don't
Speaker 1: get a deal done with Dak and then they draft
Speaker 1: Caleb Farley. Who I love Caleb Farley. He's probably if
Speaker 1: Dak is under contract, he's probably the guy that I
Speaker 1: would want them to draft the most. But then imagine
Speaker 1: they draft Caleb Farley. We get to July, a deal
Speaker 1: doesn't get done, and now you have a pretty good
Speaker 1: quarterback pairing and no quarterback and you have no idea
Speaker 1: where you're going to be drafting next year. Um, yeah, nightmare.
Speaker 1: Absolute nightmare, and I hope we can avoid it. Please,
Speaker 1: Cowboys do something. That's the crossroads that we're talking about it.
Speaker 1: I talked about that yesterday. I'm talking Cowboys. I know, Bucky,
Speaker 1: you've talked about it on the NFL network, Dave on
Speaker 1: the break. I mean, we've all had these conversations throughout.
Speaker 1: We don't talk about it a ton on this show
Speaker 1: because we want to talk about prospects. But that's the
Speaker 1: decision you've got to make. You have to find out
Speaker 1: if Dak is your future or not, plain and simple,
Speaker 1: figure it out. Don't take an extra quarterback if you
Speaker 1: don't have to. If he's not your future, fine, yes,
Speaker 1: take your quarterback and we'll go from there and see
Speaker 1: what happens. I don't know if at ten you're gonna
Speaker 1: be able to get a trade lance you may have
Speaker 1: to settle for mac Jones. Body's okay, well who mac Jones?
Speaker 1: Mac Jones? Well, okay, is that a Is that a
Speaker 1: positive or a negative? There? Not for me? Not for me.
Speaker 1: I'll pass on this. I'll pass on I'll say this.
Speaker 1: That's why I said settle. We don't have to go
Speaker 1: too far down this rabbit hole. But if they if
Speaker 1: they don't sign Dac and they try to pick a quarterback,
Speaker 1: they need to trade up from ten. They need to
Speaker 1: Oh they won't. They won't get a guy. They won't
Speaker 1: get it. They gotta use they gotta use the compis
Speaker 1: and and what and a future one whatever they got
Speaker 1: to do. You know, this is a terrible example because
Speaker 1: Carson Wentz just got traded out of Philly, but Philly
Speaker 1: traded up from sixteen to two to get him. You know,
Speaker 1: you're probably you're not getting Trevor Lawrence. But if you
Speaker 1: got to trade up to four to get justin Fields
Speaker 1: or whatever the hell you gotta do, you gotta do it.
Speaker 1: If you're not going to sign Dac, which that goes
Speaker 1: back to me, like you're not. You're not fixing this
Speaker 1: problem without spending significant resources anyway, So you might as
Speaker 1: well just sign the guy that's already here. How do
Speaker 1: you want to spend how do you want to spend
Speaker 1: the capitol? Do you want to spend it in cash
Speaker 1: when it comes to Dak Prescott, do you want to
Speaker 1: spend it in draft capital? Either way, you have to
Speaker 1: make sure that a number one position in football is
Speaker 1: taken care of. And so you just have to pick.
Speaker 1: How do you want to do it? Pay me now,
Speaker 1: pay me to it. Number one position in sports, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly why we are talking about it here on
Speaker 1: the Trap Show. Let's go into Chef Block two O
Speaker 1: two's question on Twitter. He said, which one of these
Speaker 1: space Eaters would be the best Day three pick for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys since Dallas doesn't have a true one technique
Speaker 1: Tyler Shelvin to Darryl Slayton or Quentin Bohanna and we
Speaker 1: can throw different names in there as well. Ultimately looking
Speaker 1: at defensive tackles on Day two, late Day two, day
Speaker 1: three potentially for the Cowboys to fill that one technique slot. Man,
Speaker 1: that's tough because you're talking about like a one technique spot,
Speaker 1: like I want to say, you can get a space
Speaker 1: Eater anywhere. I'm still trying to figure out, like how
Speaker 1: DQ likes his defensive tackles because when you look at
Speaker 1: him right, Grady Jared was a pass rushing phenale, but
Speaker 1: he's an undersized guy. He's not necessarily your classic defensive
Speaker 1: tackle in terms of the way that he's built. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, like it's kind of tough because
Speaker 1: you'd ask him for Day three, who knows. I think
Speaker 1: a guy who's going to no, no, I think a
Speaker 1: guy who is going to fall, who's going to be
Speaker 1: in the conversation. And he's a guy who was highly
Speaker 1: acclaimed coming out, like Marvin Wilson. Is going to be
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation to have because when you look at him,
Speaker 1: depending on which year of tape you look at, you
Speaker 1: see a guy who can dominate. You see a guy
Speaker 1: with heavy hands, you see a guy with athleticism. This
Speaker 1: year he didn't have the same level of athleticism because
Speaker 1: he was dealing with the injury. When you watch Met
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, he's just he's okay. But there are
Speaker 1: some that believe that you can dust off those things
Speaker 1: and you can put him in a position that may
Speaker 1: help him. He may not have been playing at his
Speaker 1: best at Florida State. I'll just throw in and I
Speaker 1: agree with everything you just said. But but I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: Grady Jared obviously became this great player, but I believe
Speaker 1: he was a fifth round pick. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can definitely find these guys. And oh my god,
Speaker 1: Tyler Sheldon is just a comically large man, Like geez,
Speaker 1: good lord, you know every we made a big deal
Speaker 1: about We made a big deal about Dantari Poe because
Speaker 1: of how big he was, and we're not used to
Speaker 1: having that type of DT around here. Tyler Shelvin might
Speaker 1: be bigger than Dontari Poe at least at this point
Speaker 1: in his career. Yeah, I definitely, I think Day three
Speaker 1: is the right conversation to have because I know, you know,
Speaker 1: I know it's a new decordinator. I get that, But
Speaker 1: I don't see this front office spending a huge pick
Speaker 1: on a two down player. You know, I know they
Speaker 1: drafted Gallimore last year, but you know he's a guy
Speaker 1: that they feel good about his ability to rush the passer.
Speaker 1: Tyler Shelvin strikes me as more of like a two
Speaker 1: down player, which you know, I just I can't imagine
Speaker 1: the Cowboys drafting a two down player with a top
Speaker 1: one hundred pick. And I do you know, we got
Speaker 1: to see how free agency plays out as well, and
Speaker 1: that they choose to address be a free agency because
Speaker 1: you think about it, you just drafted Gallimore, you felt
Speaker 1: pretty good about what Tristan Hill showed before he got
Speaker 1: hurt last year. So that's that's two lofty draft picks
Speaker 1: that they used in the last two years that I'm
Speaker 1: not saying you can count on it, but you at
Speaker 1: least feel good about what they might be able to
Speaker 1: give you. So I won't be surprised if they have
Speaker 1: if they fill that out with free agents rather than
Speaker 1: try to draft it, honestly, And I think the interesting
Speaker 1: thing if you go back and look at DQ's history
Speaker 1: with who he's played with inside, they haven't been like
Speaker 1: big guys. So you talk about Shelvin, but Brandon Meban
Speaker 1: was kind of a squatty body, fire hydrant plugger at Seattle,
Speaker 1: and then you think about Grady Jared, and then he
Speaker 1: also had Rashad Hageman, who didn't necessarily work out for
Speaker 1: him and the Falcons, but he was their big three techniques.
Speaker 1: So if you ask me, I still don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what DQ likes at that position because it's been a
Speaker 1: little bit of a hodgepodge in terms of the players
Speaker 1: that have played. I do still believe that there's a
Speaker 1: spot and a role for Tristan Hill. That's as some standpoint,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I think I don't know how
Speaker 1: much deal commit to a free agent defensive tackle. And
Speaker 1: I also don't know if if they're going to commit
Speaker 1: like a top pick to another guy. When you talked
Speaker 1: about a second and a third round pick being used
Speaker 1: on defensive tackle in the most recent past, and I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of why Day three in the question.
Speaker 1: Now that's yeah, yeah, perfect spot because early Day three
Speaker 1: and you have so many of those picks in the
Speaker 1: top one hundred, that's fine, you can spend that elsewhere
Speaker 1: maybe right so out right outside of that top one
Speaker 1: hundred top two hundred picks, that's extra sweet spot because
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily looking for someone to replace Nevil Gallimore.
Speaker 1: You want Nevill Gallimore to be a starter next year.
Speaker 1: You want Tristan Hill to take that next step as
Speaker 1: a second round pick in sure, but you also have
Speaker 1: a safety net back behind him that's not maybe Antoine
Speaker 1: Woods or Tymeround Crawford. You have some of those extra
Speaker 1: bodies back there. I'm interested to hear what you guys
Speaker 1: think about Alan McNeil out of state, and I know
Speaker 1: this is probably not a Day three pick. I think
Speaker 1: he's somebody that will go in the second or third round,
Speaker 1: and I like him a lot in terms of the size,
Speaker 1: the way that he moves at three hundred and twenty pounds.
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like he moves at three twenty. He
Speaker 1: moves really well. And he's a sideline the sideline type
Speaker 1: of guy if you need him in the run game.
Speaker 1: And he's good at kind of chasing down guys in
Speaker 1: the flat or at least on film. But Bucky, what
Speaker 1: do you think about what McNeil brings to the table
Speaker 1: and where does he rank among your defensive tackles at
Speaker 1: the moment? Well, look, leave neil like you're talking about
Speaker 1: six to two hundred and ninety seven pounds coming out
Speaker 1: of the North Carolina State. Here's what I'll say about
Speaker 1: in North Carolina State when it comes to their ability
Speaker 1: to produce, they have produce a ton of defensive linemen
Speaker 1: that have played successfully in the National Football League. For
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they got a secret saucet there. I don't
Speaker 1: really understand it, but yeah, it's something in the water there. Look,
Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about is you're talking about
Speaker 1: a junkyard dog on the inside, and what you need
Speaker 1: is someone that can stack and control the point, which
Speaker 1: is able to do someone who can make plays in
Speaker 1: that type box area. He's certainly of interest. And when
Speaker 1: you're talking about in day three. What you're looking for
Speaker 1: is what are one or two redeeming qualities that they
Speaker 1: present that will enable them to be successful in the league.
Speaker 1: And so look, man, he's tough, he's physical, he has
Speaker 1: some quickness and some hand strength like that's enough to
Speaker 1: be there. And then if you put him in the rotation,
Speaker 1: and depending upon how DQ wants to utilize this scheme,
Speaker 1: there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to be successful. Dave,
Speaker 1: if you gotten to watch any and McNeil yet not extensively,
Speaker 1: but again, I mean again and what so yeah, not
Speaker 1: a not a day three prospect, which I just yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm all in favor. You know, Dane Brugler has said
Speaker 1: it the whole time. I've done this as straits. That's
Speaker 1: what you're looking at when you get in the back,
Speaker 1: and I'm at least encouraged. What you know, we don't
Speaker 1: know the compics as of yet, but the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: probably going to have as many as ten draft picks,
Speaker 1: and people, I mean people get all excited, and rightfully, so,
Speaker 1: you get all excited that you can use those to
Speaker 1: move around if you want to. You can also just
Speaker 1: take a hell of a lot of fun throws of
Speaker 1: the dark. If you've got that many picks, because the
Speaker 1: vast majority of them are gonna be on day three.
Speaker 1: You know, if they have ten, then that means they
Speaker 1: would probably pick six times on Day three. And with
Speaker 1: that in mind, take your pick of the space eater
Speaker 1: that you feel the best about starting in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: and get up. I like it. How about it? Like
Speaker 1: a Bobby Brown out of Texas A and m or
Speaker 1: to Daryl Slayton out of Florida. There's a couple of
Speaker 1: guys there that you could potentially have. I think there's
Speaker 1: a couple of names there that the Ffic Cowboys could
Speaker 1: look at. Hey, maybe a senior Bowl guy, maybe like
Speaker 1: a Cabra Sample out of Tulane the really won, But
Speaker 1: I think he's a solid player and could be right
Speaker 1: in the middle of that mix. But there's definitely a
Speaker 1: chance at defensive tackle. And I think it would lie
Speaker 1: right around that third round, or not third round, but
Speaker 1: past the third round into Day three, potentially four of
Speaker 1: the Cowboys. Let's go ahead and take our second break.
Speaker 1: When we come back, we're gonna talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more about the tax, touching on a couple of those
Speaker 1: wide receivers. I even want to get Bucky's opinion on
Speaker 1: some of these running backs. Maybe not for the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: but we need to talk about the tailback position as well.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back here on the Dallas Cowboys dot
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Speaker 1: the Dennis Cowboys dot Com Draft Show final segment here
Speaker 1: at the Draft Show presented by Miller Light here on
Speaker 1: this Tuesday, be sure to join the next group of guys.
Speaker 1: Got j C mister Jeff Kavanaugh, Gregory Rousseau Hayter, which
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about here in a second as well,
Speaker 1: because I want to get Bucky Brooks's opinion on that.
Speaker 1: And we've got Dave Brugler and Kevin Katie Turner ten
Speaker 1: am Central Time on Thursday. But we've got Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: David Helmet, I'm Kyle Gamis with Rustbeam back at the
Speaker 1: s WBC Mortgage studios, and we did get to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the defensive line and defensive tackle.
Speaker 1: But before we go into wide receivers and running backs
Speaker 1: for us, put second here, Bucky, I want to get
Speaker 1: your opinion on Gregory Rousseau edge rusher out of Miami.
Speaker 1: We've heard extensively on this program that Jeff Gavanall does
Speaker 1: not like him, and at some point I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: you guys on the same show and we're gonna have
Speaker 1: a battle of words about Gregory Rousseau, because I know
Speaker 1: you're pretty high on the guy. Well, I just think
Speaker 1: when you look at the trace and you look at
Speaker 1: what traditional plays in the league, like, he checks off
Speaker 1: a lot of boxes his production, it sees those that
Speaker 1: are in the same category with them. Where you look
Speaker 1: at Quitti, pay Ojalari, all those guys, they don't have
Speaker 1: the level of reduction that Gregor Rousseau had in one
Speaker 1: year at Miami. And so when I look at Rousseau,
Speaker 1: he's long, he does a really good job of using
Speaker 1: his hands. He is not the most explosive in terms
Speaker 1: of first step quickness, but he finishes and as you
Speaker 1: watch him progress over that season that he played, he
Speaker 1: got better and better and better. And then when you
Speaker 1: talk to him, he is a guy who can articulate
Speaker 1: a pass fresh plan and he is someone who has
Speaker 1: picked up some tips along the way. He and so
Speaker 1: we didn't get a chance to see him, so we
Speaker 1: have no idea what he would have looked like. But
Speaker 1: based on the flashes, I think the flashes to lead
Speaker 1: you to believe that he can be a player. They
Speaker 1: grows into being, if not a dominant player, but a
Speaker 1: very disruptive presence off the ends. I'm terrified of what
Speaker 1: do you think about I'm terrified of both of the Miamians. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm terrified of Rousseau and Jalen Phillips. Jalen Phillip just
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't see it with him in terms
Speaker 1: of like having the explosiveness and the power, at least
Speaker 1: not right now. And then Rousseau, I'll like, I feel
Speaker 1: hypocritical saying this because I'm like, yeah, like you see
Speaker 1: flashes and he's got he's got the measurables, and he's
Speaker 1: got this, and he's got that, But like he took
Speaker 1: the year off. It kind of reminds me of like
Speaker 1: the art. You know when whenever you see a Shack
Speaker 1: barrit or DeMarcus Lawrence do this in the NFL, You're like,
Speaker 1: is this worth a multi year contract or do we
Speaker 1: need to tag him and see it again? Like I
Speaker 1: would love to have seen another year of this to
Speaker 1: prove that Gregory Russo can actually do this. And then
Speaker 1: at the same time, my guy Caleb Farley, I'm just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's fine, he can do it. Like I've watched enough
Speaker 1: of him yet yeah, Caleb Farley's fine. Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know why I feel fine about one guy and not
Speaker 1: fine about the other, But I just didn't see the
Speaker 1: consistency that I would have preferred to from Rousseau. That
Speaker 1: makes me feel like I would want to draft him
Speaker 1: in the top ten. Okay, so then let's talk about
Speaker 1: the other past rush she's done in the class, like
Speaker 1: Quitty Pay, Like, why are we excited about Quitty Pay
Speaker 1: when Quitty Pay doesn't get the quarterback? You're excited about
Speaker 1: him either or whatever that's worth? Right, Okay, So then right,
Speaker 1: so then why would we be excited about Ojilari when
Speaker 1: Ojilari is a one trick pony. He does the same
Speaker 1: move all the time, and he also doesn't have a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of production. The one thing that translates in
Speaker 1: the National Football League. Guys who sacked the quarterback in college,
Speaker 1: they sacked the quarterback in the pros. Like guys they
Speaker 1: get guys to the ground. And I think sometimes when
Speaker 1: we're studying pas ro shoes, we confuse activity for achievement,
Speaker 1: meaning guys comes off. We see all the moves, we
Speaker 1: see him flash, they do all this, but we never
Speaker 1: see him take anybody down. And I think we just
Speaker 1: have to be careful of falling in love with those
Speaker 1: guys because those guys that are active and fast or whatever,
Speaker 1: but if they don't have a sustained history of getting
Speaker 1: the quarterback down, they're not gonna get him down in
Speaker 1: the pros like it typically doesn't change now. It's funny,
Speaker 1: uh the yeah, And we talk about all the time,
Speaker 1: like the weight that these postseason games can play, because
Speaker 1: you know, Ojilari just goes and wallops Cincinnati in the
Speaker 1: Sugar Bowl or a backup against a backup. Well, so
Speaker 1: you're like, you're like, oh my god, I gotta I
Speaker 1: think he was, like he was the first player I watched,
Speaker 1: like after the conclusion of the season because of that game,
Speaker 1: and I was like, all right, I gotta watch more
Speaker 1: of this guy. I watched him play Florida. I watched
Speaker 1: him play three or four SEC games, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I'm not I'm not high this
Speaker 1: guy anymore. And then but then at the same time,
Speaker 1: Christian Barmore just kicks everybody's ass in the playoff and
Speaker 1: you go back and watch him and I'm like, oh, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like this guy. A lot. So again, it's one
Speaker 1: thing that it's one thing to kick ass in one game,
Speaker 1: but if you go watch a handful of games and
Speaker 1: you don't see it the same way, that that wig
Speaker 1: is heavily for me for sure. Yeah, here's the thing
Speaker 1: about Jalen Phillips that I would tell you to look at.
Speaker 1: So Jalen Phillips doesn't have like the pop that we
Speaker 1: look at. Like, so when we talk about pop, we
Speaker 1: talk about FIRSTEP quickness, burst, can you turn speed into power?
Speaker 1: But if you look at him, watch how he utilizes
Speaker 1: his hands and how he sequences his moves, like his ability,
Speaker 1: his ability to attack one and then to immediately get
Speaker 1: a feeling go to a countermove like that's kind of
Speaker 1: like next level stuff. I won't put these guys in
Speaker 1: the same thing, but if you go back, like I
Speaker 1: would say, go back and look at the bosses and
Speaker 1: how they got their sack production versus Chase Young. When
Speaker 1: you see them, they're more technical and refine. They are
Speaker 1: kind of like missing me Yaggi in terms of wax
Speaker 1: on wax off to get by as opposed to a
Speaker 1: I'm a superhero, I jump tall buildings in a single
Speaker 1: bound and I just run past you. Those guys that
Speaker 1: have great hand skills, they kind of sneak up on you,
Speaker 1: and you look up at the end of the year, like, man,
Speaker 1: how does this guy have like nine or ten sacks?
Speaker 1: How does this guy? Now, they may not be the
Speaker 1: number one pass rusher, but they may be the compliment
Speaker 1: on the back side. And so when we think about
Speaker 1: like for the Cowboys in particular, d Laws, the number
Speaker 1: one Randy Gregory would be the number two or whoever's
Speaker 1: on the back side is the number two guy. So
Speaker 1: what you need from that number two guy is to
Speaker 1: be able to consistently just get garbage sacks. I need
Speaker 1: you too. When d Law forces the quarterback to run
Speaker 1: out the other side, I need you to be there
Speaker 1: to collect them. I don't necessarily need you to be
Speaker 1: able to win on your own all the time, but
Speaker 1: if you can win a handful of times, because d
Speaker 1: Laws the guy that's gonna get us to double digits, collectively,
Speaker 1: we can put together a great pass rush because we
Speaker 1: have a one A and then we have a guy
Speaker 1: that is a solid number two on the backside. So
Speaker 1: it depends on what you need. I think when you
Speaker 1: look at edge Rusher, especially in this draft. I mean
Speaker 1: there's multiple guys that, like we said earlier, you may
Speaker 1: knock a little bit just for not being able to
Speaker 1: play this year. And you could even say that about
Speaker 1: other positions as well. Dave, you mentioned Caleb Farley you're
Speaker 1: fine with. I'm sure that's probably the same at wide
Speaker 1: receiver with Jamar Chase. Nobody's really worried about Jamar Chase
Speaker 1: after taking a year off. But why is it like
Speaker 1: guys like a Gregory Rousseau, like a Micah Parsons are
Speaker 1: noted for having that year off and not having that
Speaker 1: extra year of time because we're scared about it in
Speaker 1: certain scenarios. And I'm sure front offices feel the same way,
Speaker 1: but we're not scared about it and I and it's
Speaker 1: it's a weird thing to articulate at the same time,
Speaker 1: Like I probably feel better about Caleb Farley because I
Speaker 1: didn't see him play, you know, like people are people.
Speaker 1: People are looking for excuses to ding Patrick's hand because
Speaker 1: he gets he gets grabby. Sometimes he's given up. You know,
Speaker 1: he played fifteen games against the top competition in the country.
Speaker 1: You know, he played the SEC. Then he played you know,
Speaker 1: he played two playoff games against the best teams in
Speaker 1: the country and so and he had a good season,
Speaker 1: Like his tape is, it's good, but if you watch
Speaker 1: enough of it, you're like, oh, he kind of got
Speaker 1: victimized here, you like, going back to last year, Jamar Chase,
Speaker 1: everybody on LSU beat up on Alabama Secondary last year.
Speaker 1: So it's almost like the more information you have, the
Speaker 1: easier it is to come up with excuses. Whereas Caleb Farley,
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yeah, he looked dominant for most of the
Speaker 1: the last year. I feel fine about him. It's funny
Speaker 1: that you say there, right, because I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like some of this has taken place, and I know
Speaker 1: we want to talk about quarterbacks, but I feel like
Speaker 1: that conversation with Justin Fields and Zach Wilson and Trey
Speaker 1: Lance and all that, Like sometimes when we see guys
Speaker 1: play on a bigger stage, longer a tendency the poke
Speaker 1: holes in their game as opposed to the Johnny cumb Lady,
Speaker 1: the guy that we didn't know. And I'm gonna jame
Speaker 1: Joe Burr. I'm gonna blame Joe Burrow for a lot
Speaker 1: of this, right because because we were we had such
Speaker 1: different views on Joe Burrow from his junior season to
Speaker 1: his senior season that we're scared and that that leaves scars.
Speaker 1: And so now what you do is what you overcorrect.
Speaker 1: So now you're like, no, no, no no, no, I know
Speaker 1: it's one year production, but I know he can do it.
Speaker 1: He can do it over and over again. And so
Speaker 1: in taking it back to what you're talking about with
Speaker 1: Caleb Farley and Patrick Curtain, but we've seen Patrick Curtan more,
Speaker 1: we have more tape on him. So of course, the
Speaker 1: more games you played, the more succeptible you are to
Speaker 1: being victimized. Whereas Caleb Farley has kind of been in
Speaker 1: the bubbles, safe and protected and we still don't know.
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things. I have a rule
Speaker 1: like at some point you gotta put the pin down
Speaker 1: when it comes to evaluate it, like because study study long,
Speaker 1: study wrong. The more you study, you can over analyze
Speaker 1: and you can just talk yourself into sease scenario. So
Speaker 1: at some point you have to set a deadline. Look,
Speaker 1: this is my great this is what I believe in it,
Speaker 1: and I'm rolling. I'm not I'm not going to change
Speaker 1: because there are no new games that are gonna hit
Speaker 1: the Film Center. I like it, And I mean you
Speaker 1: could say that about any of the positions. You can
Speaker 1: say that defensively, offensively. The whole draft is like that.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think is fun about the draft,
Speaker 1: first off, And it's even more fun this year. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's throw all the ring. I don't think it's fun
Speaker 1: at all. I'm frustrated its own because normally, normally by
Speaker 1: late by the time we get back that's I'm pissed
Speaker 1: that I'm not an indie right now, because normally, by
Speaker 1: the time we get back from Indie, I get like,
Speaker 1: it's fun to watch these guys, like just as as
Speaker 1: a as a draft fan, it's fun to watch this.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, the goal is to figure out who the
Speaker 1: Cowboys picks are gonna be. At least that's my goal,
Speaker 1: and it's I don't have as good of an idea
Speaker 1: as I normally would, and it upsets me none, no,
Speaker 1: And it's crazy even getting back to this point. And
Speaker 1: I didn't mention this earlier when we were talking about
Speaker 1: the combine, but the combine was really kind of the
Speaker 1: last couple moments last year before the whole process was
Speaker 1: flipped on its head and the whole world changed, and
Speaker 1: we haven't necessarily recovered from that and gotten back to
Speaker 1: normal yet. Of course, I mean everybody knows that, but
Speaker 1: it was right up until that point, and then right
Speaker 1: after the combine it seemed like everything shut down. So
Speaker 1: it's just crazy to me that we're already back at
Speaker 1: this point and we're having to deal with some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that we had to deal with throughout twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Now we've got about one hundred and fifty seconds worth
Speaker 1: of running back talk. Go Bucky, who's your favorite running
Speaker 1: back prospect? Because we haven't talked tailbacks at all, And
Speaker 1: I know there's a couple of North Carolina tatar heels
Speaker 1: up in the mix as some of my favorite running backs.
Speaker 1: But I watched a little bit of tailback this week
Speaker 1: and just kind of got my feet wet with it.
Speaker 1: But I know you've had to look at it pretty
Speaker 1: in depth. Now. I think a conversation between Niger Harris
Speaker 1: and Travis Etienne is going to be interesting. One. I
Speaker 1: know people have long assumed that Travis NTM was going
Speaker 1: to be the number one, but when I look at
Speaker 1: nt N, I see more of a one cut runner,
Speaker 1: a guy who is look he's explosive. His zero to
Speaker 1: sixty is everything that you look for at the running
Speaker 1: back position. I don't think he's necessarily a natural pass catcher.
Speaker 1: When I watch him stylistically, he reminds me a little
Speaker 1: bit of Jamal Charles. He can get down, but I
Speaker 1: think he's not necessarily a creative runner in terms of
Speaker 1: being able. If it's not blocked, he's gonna get skipped
Speaker 1: and scooted and do all those other things. And Naja Harris,
Speaker 1: Naja Harris is a I mean a big body running
Speaker 1: back who has little guys skills. He can catch it
Speaker 1: out the backfield, he can run legitimate routes. He has
Speaker 1: a smoothness to his game that is surprising because he
Speaker 1: also has some pop and some other stuff. But I
Speaker 1: think the thing that is on the streets that's coming
Speaker 1: out there are a lot of people that have a
Speaker 1: lot of love for Jamata Williams coming out of North Carolina.
Speaker 1: He has explosive, he has big time juice. He catched
Speaker 1: the ball out the backfield. He can drop his shoulder
Speaker 1: though things. I wouldn't be surprised if look me. He
Speaker 1: may be the first guy to hear his name call.
Speaker 1: And I think Desk wont to surprise a lot of people,
Speaker 1: but I think in scouting circles there's some people that
Speaker 1: have a lot of love for him and what he brings.
Speaker 1: This is where I differ from everybody else, and I
Speaker 1: won't apologize for it. Again. I'm looking for Cowboy draft picks.
Speaker 1: So how much time have I spent on running back?
Speaker 1: Almost none? None, almost none? Because zero zero, I mean
Speaker 1: a little more than zero, but not a whole lot
Speaker 1: more zero. I mean Zeke's here. I don't think Zeke's
Speaker 1: going anywhere. Tony's here for the foreseeable future. And you
Speaker 1: even had Rico down Woll show some stuff as an
Speaker 1: undrafted free agent last year. I would be very surprised
Speaker 1: if the Cowboys spent big time resources. I don't need
Speaker 1: to talk about Nagie Harris. I mean, actually, Bucky's conversation
Speaker 1: just reminded me. I know it's dangerous to compare guys
Speaker 1: just because they went to the same school. It's hard
Speaker 1: for me to like, it's not hard for me to
Speaker 1: imagine and that Nashie Harris if he doesn't go, if
Speaker 1: he's not the first running back, well neither was Derrick
Speaker 1: Henry and we all see how that's playing out. Um,
Speaker 1: a guy that I love a lot. Just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a big SEC guy. I've watched a lot of
Speaker 1: SEC football. Kylin Hill Awesome club. Ya. Um, you know
Speaker 1: he's not a home run guy. But he's shifty, he's
Speaker 1: a bowling ball, he's powerful, he's got underrated receiving ability. Um,
Speaker 1: if you told me I could get him, if you
Speaker 1: told me I could get him in the third round,
Speaker 1: I mean I wouldn't love that for the Cowboys again,
Speaker 1: because I don't think they need it. But I think
Speaker 1: he's a hell of an underrated player. But again, I mean,
Speaker 1: Cuba Hubbard's a guy that I've loved watching his entire
Speaker 1: college career. He is a home like that guy. Maybe,
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, go ahead, Oh, I mean it's it's obviously
Speaker 1: it's kind of a bummer because it would it would
Speaker 1: be it would be fun to talk about this if
Speaker 1: I thought there was a legitimate possibility that Cowboys would
Speaker 1: draft one. But even if they do, I just I
Speaker 1: don't think it would like third round at the absolute earliest,
Speaker 1: but probably more like a day three insurance policy. I've
Speaker 1: got guys like Tray Sermon and Puca Williams and I'm
Speaker 1: not completely done with my running back rankings at the moment,
Speaker 1: but they're sixteen and seventeen in a running back position,
Speaker 1: and I think both of those guys are ballers, and
Speaker 1: so I mean, you look all the way down the list.
Speaker 1: You can pick up an undrafted free agent again at
Speaker 1: the running back position, and he's probably gonna find a
Speaker 1: way to make the roster, like we saw Rico doubt
Speaker 1: will do last year out of South Carolina. So there's
Speaker 1: a potential for that, and there's a potential for anything
Speaker 1: in this draft. That's kind of the theme of today
Speaker 1: is there's potential for madness whenever it comes to the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one draft. I want to thank Chris Beam
Speaker 1: in the back as always running things from the s
Speaker 1: WBC Mortgage Studios, for David Hellman, for Bucky Brooks and
Speaker 1: Kyle Yellman's catch us again next Tuesday, ten am Central time,
Speaker 1: and then this Thursday at ten am Central. But until then,
Speaker 1: we'll see you next time I'll here on the Draft Show.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.