1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Body Bus with Joseph Scott more closed doors. Closed doors 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: imply that you're not welcome, that perhaps something is being hidden, 3 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: something might be being protected, or in some cases, that 4 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: could be hide in a crime. Today, we're going to 5 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: have a discussion about a crime. As a matter of fact, 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: it's not just one, it's several, and you can count 7 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: them each individual crime and apply a name to it, 8 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: because what we're going to talk about today involves the 9 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: desecration of human remains. As of this recording, we know 10 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: of at least twenty in Pueblo, Colorado. Coming to you 11 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: from the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. I'm Joseph 12 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags Dave. I'm going to 13 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: throw a name out to you real quick and just imagine, 14 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: imagine a day in this guy's life. This guy's name 15 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: is Gregory Gregg, and I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, 16 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: doctor Gregg. If I'm not pronouncing it correctly, forgive me. 17 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: But I want to give you a tip of the 18 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: cap right now because Gregory is he has a doctorate 19 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: as a nurse practitioner, which means he's a d n P. 20 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: And you know he's worked as a nurse practitioner for 21 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: quite some time. I think he'd been a nurse for 22 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: a while and then he went back got his d 23 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: and P. And you know, with a DNP you can 24 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: be an instructor. You know a lot about medicine. As 25 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, you probably know more medicine than 26 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: most practicing physicians do because so much of the onus 27 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: is on all of our nurses out there and everything 28 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: they have to do. Some of the great unsung heroes 29 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: in America as far as I'm concerned. But the reason 30 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Gregory's story is so very important is that it blends 31 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: in with the story we've been seeing pop up in 32 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: the news now for I don't know, I guess about 33 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: a month, and it involves the corner of Pueblo, Colorado, 34 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: which is down in the southeastern part of the state. 35 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: You and I just got back from Colorado. 36 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: I just looked it up just so you know. I 37 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: looked it up because I thought, you know, back in 38 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: the day when there would be like mail order scams, 39 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: you know what the envelopes, it was Peblo, Colorado, that's 40 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: where they were based out of. And so I found 41 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 2: out where it was looking it up on the map. 42 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, we were just in Denver. This is 43 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: one hundred and ten miles to the south. 44 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: Maybe aout to give you another piece of trivia that 45 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: i'd heard many years ago about Pueblo, and I didn't 46 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: know this, it was said at one point in time 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: they had the most federal employees of any city per 48 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: capita west of the Mississippi River. I think a lot 49 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: of a lot of federal workers were concentrated there for 50 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: some reason. I'd forgive me for those residents and Pueblo 51 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: that are listening to me, maybe you can educate me. 52 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: But it's certainly an interesting environment. And to make it 53 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: all the more interesting, they've been touched by this problem 54 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: that seems to be raging in Colorado right now with 55 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: funeral homes and corners. 56 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: You know, we actually started this while back when we 57 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: were talking about another story of that was happening with 58 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: the funeral home and them selling body parts. And we'll 59 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: get into that in a minute. But Joe, I don't 60 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: quite understand why. I don't understand why we're not hearing 61 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: more of this. And the reason is I looked into 62 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: it because there's no regulation, Joe, they don't regulate this 63 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: in Colorado. I'm actually looking over this case and I'm 64 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: going what did they charge them with? Because if you 65 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: don't regulate the industry, people are going to do whatever 66 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: they can get away with to make as much money 67 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: as they can. 68 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: And the cats and that's why we've landed landed on 69 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: this general and this nurse practitioner Gregory, you know, Dave 70 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: On right now, you and I are speaking on Wednesday. 71 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: Last night, on Tuesday night, the Pueblo County Commissioners actually 72 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: appointed doctor Gregory Gregg as the interim corner for Pueblo County, Colorado. 73 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: And Joe why they had to do that? 74 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: Tell me why they had to do that? 75 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: Well, it's because the other one, the other corner that 76 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: they had, who was a funeral home director and had 77 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: been the corner for a while I think, and comes 78 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: from a family of funeral directors, they arrested him, and 79 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: they arrested him because of something that they found hidden 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: behind a faux door or faux wall. I've heard a 81 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: couple of things here. You actually have inspectors, which I 82 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: find interesting since there is really no oversight with with 83 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: corners off. I think that I think that these inspectors 84 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: were a result of these other cases that we have covered, 85 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: because I think the people in Colorado finally said, you know, 86 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: it's probably about time that we that we get a 87 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: we get a handle in this situation. So inspectors wind 88 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: up coming to the funeral home. They're in Pueblo where 89 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: the corner where the guy he's not just funeral director, 90 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: he's actually the corner of Pueppla and he's apparently begging. 91 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: He's begging these inspectors. Look, don't don't go behind that wall, 92 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: don't go behind that door. And they could they could, actually, 93 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: they could actually smell a foul odor coming from behind 94 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: the wall. Dave, Now, I got to tell you, I 95 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: don't like funeral homes. I don't like them. I've never 96 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: liked them. I've spent a lot of time in them. 97 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: I've done autopsies, and funeral homes are assisted with autopsies. 98 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: In funeral homes. I've had to go collect bodies at 99 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: funeral homes. I've had to go collect cremains, you name it, 100 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: I've done it relatively. I actually had a body that 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: was missing jewelry, and I went out with the police 102 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: because they they'd issued a search warrant at the funeral 103 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: home because we knew that they had picked up the 104 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: jewelry along with the body, and it turned out that 105 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: one of the workers had had stolen the jewelry, and 106 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, they were of course, they were accusing us, 107 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner's office, for having we had sign receipts 108 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So and I've been in crematories, 109 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, over over the years for a variety of 110 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: different reasons. I still take my students at Jacksville State. 111 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: I still take them to crematories because I want them 112 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: to see the process, just so that they understand how 113 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: all this works. And I don't like going in there. 114 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: There's just something about it that just puts me on 115 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: one of those people. It just puts me off for 116 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: some reason. The sooner I can get out, the better 117 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 1: I am. But if you're if you're an inspector, would 118 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: state first off, you have to know what you're looking at. 119 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: You cannot. It's like it's like these people I think 120 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: that get these jobs, these these governmental favor jobs, they 121 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: get where they're a building inspector and they have no 122 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: history in actually contracting or being a cond They've never 123 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, nailed two pieces of wood gap in their lives. 124 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: If you're going to inspect something relative to the funeral industry, 125 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: I think you've probably got to know something about the 126 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: funeral industry because you don't know what you're looking at. However, 127 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, it doesn't take a rocket 128 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: scientist to be able to detect decay. Decay specifically as 129 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: it applies to human remains. 130 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: Well, you know, you and I have done so many 131 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: shows together and with others that we've done shows about 132 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: the smell of human decomposition. We've done it a couple 133 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: of times this week on different shows, and it's a 134 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: very distinct smell, and it's distinct because we're not usually 135 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: around the composing bodies. You've actually mentioned that the human body, 136 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: the decomposing body, doesn't smell any different than other animals 137 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: that are decomposing. Is that that's true, right? 138 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: It's true with me. I mean, you'll have a variety 139 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: of opinions about that. I think think many people that 140 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: say that it smells so distinct, Well, it's distinct to 141 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: you because you it might be the first time you 142 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: smell the decomposing body, or you you're not super saturated 143 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: in it, like I am. Maybe maybe I've developed a 144 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: callous to it. You know, where you know DCOMP smells 145 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: like DCOMP smells like DCOMP. It's kind of like charter remains. 146 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: If I have a human remain that has burned, there 147 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: are people that say, well, there is a distinctive odor 148 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: relative to burned human remains. Got to tell you, Dave, 149 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: And I'm going to try real I'm going to be 150 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: very careful with what I'm about to say. Let's see, 151 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: how can I do this. Human remains that have been 152 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: burned to me, smell no different than any other species 153 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: that's out there that has been exposed to And that's 154 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: as far as I'm going to go with. I'm not 155 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: going to make any draw any other kind of comparisons 156 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: here because it'll really put people off. But for me, 157 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, I can you know when I smell burned flesh, 158 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: it's burned flesh decomp same way. I think that people 159 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: want to say that it smells different, and you know, 160 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: but for me, you know, whether it's a decomposing deer 161 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: or a dog, I really don't draw a delinear. And look, 162 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I've been locked up in coolers with not locked up, 163 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: but having to work inside of cooler, surrounded by decomposing dead. 164 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: It's part of what you do, so you get kind 165 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: of you get kind of a callous built up to it, 166 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: I think, and kind of a quick aside there there was. 167 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: And forgive me if I've mentioned this before, but it 168 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: kind of gives you an insight. In the medical legal world. 169 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: We used to show each other courtesy at the Medical 170 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: Examiner's office if we had if we had worked a 171 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: dcomp like one of our colleagues had, and like they 172 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: had to go to court, or they were going to 173 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: go to lunch, they were going to meet somebody, we 174 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: would smell each other and we would literally and it 175 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: was very common for us to say to one another, 176 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: can you come smell me? And I know that sounds 177 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: very odd to somebody that's outside, but you don't know, 178 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: like when you're going out in public, let's just let's 179 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: just put it too. I'll put it to you this way. 180 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: If you got in public and you're wearing like a 181 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: corner's badge or a medical examiner jacket or something identifies 182 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: you that works with a corner and you come walking 183 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: by and you smell of decomposing flesh, what kind of 184 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: reflection is that you know, on your office, you know, 185 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: because you'll go out and you'll kind of broadcast this 186 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: to everybody else that's there. They're thinking that you're not 187 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: taking due care. I think there's a lot you can 188 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: learn from that. I think there's a lot you can 189 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: learn about a person who is a funeral director that 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: takes care of the dead, and generationally dig this generationally 191 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: is taking care of the dead. His family had funeral 192 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: homes all over the Midwest or all over the Great 193 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: Plain States. I know they mentioned, you know, like Kansas 194 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: and these other places where his family. It's not like 195 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: it's not like not that this would be an excuse. 196 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: It's not like he just dropped out of the ceiling 197 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: into the funeral industry. It's like he's been around it 198 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: his entire life. You should know better. But when they 199 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: got through that door, Dave, the inspectors they're in Pueblo, 200 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: when they made their way in with this guy on 201 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: the outside saying, don't go back there, don't go back there, Dave. 202 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: They found it at least twenty decomposing remains that were 203 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: in that room. And after they had found them, after 204 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: they had observed them, this man who has now been 205 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: charged made a startling comment to them that really resonated, 206 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: and it's actually very similar to even an older case 207 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: under the same circumstances. So what do you do? What 208 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: do you do if you own and operate a funeral 209 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: home and you know you you have somebody asking you, 210 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: and they're going to ask, why are why are these 211 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: dead bodies in here? Why are they not disposed of? 212 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: Why why are they back here in this room? Why 213 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: haven't you done something with them? Because you have to 214 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: do something with them. Either cremate them or you bury them. 215 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: That's really the only two choices in the funeral industry. 216 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: Because this isn't this isn't even a matter of trying 217 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: to uh uh you know, like you're you're gonna which 218 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: is another case that we had that we covered Dave 219 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: out of Colorado. You're you know where they were taking 220 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: off parts of the body and selling them, you know, 221 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: for medical experimentation. 222 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: I want to get back to where you started with this, 223 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: that you only have two jobs, you know, but the 224 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: main one is taking care of the family and the 225 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: body that is their loved one. Now, when you've got 226 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: inspectors that show up, they're not there for fun We've 227 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: got a state that is totally lacking in regulation. You 228 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: don't don't have to have any kind of anything, it seems. 229 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: I was trying to find the laws Joe, and in Colorado, 230 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: if you don't require a funeral home director having I 231 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: don't know. Don't you have a top ten things that 232 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: are expected? I mean, don't they have a school? Isn't 233 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: there somethingsure? I mean, isn't there something? 234 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean Barbara Barbers have licenses, right, yeah, 235 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: and so you and this is this is the big thing. 236 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, who handles licensure. But and I don't know 237 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: that it's necessarily about the licensure of a funeral director 238 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: slash mortician as much as it is the regulation of 239 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: the physical plant that that you're in dwelling in. And Dave. 240 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: This guy, this guy, this man that now has you know, 241 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: been arrested and has been charged on a variety a 242 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: variety of things and clear. 243 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: His name is Brian Cotter, and Brian Carter owns Davis 244 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 2: Mortuary in Pueblo, Colorado, And he was the Pueblo County, 245 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: Colorado coroner. He was on payroll as the county coroner. 246 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Moore. 247 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, elected official. Yes, well he you know the service 248 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: that he provided. I'm going to get to the corner 249 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: bit here because again this is this is I don't 250 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: know it's it will I think that it will. Really 251 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: it will resonate with particularly our friends out there because 252 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: of what we talk about relative to representing the dead, Dave, 253 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: our advocacy, if you will, for the dead. Cotter also 254 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: provided crematory okay, which means that you could go to 255 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: him and you could either do a standard burial, you 256 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: know where they going to do the embalming. They're going 257 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: to sell you the casket. Maybe you already have a plot. 258 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: They're going to, you know, drop the crypt in the ground, 259 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: which you see these things going down the road all 260 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: the time on flatbeds. It looks like a big concrete box. 261 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: They drop that in the ground. Then they put the 262 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: coffin slash casket in there and then put the cap 263 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: on it and pour the dirt or you cremate. Well, 264 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: the big reveal with him is that they're asking him 265 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: about these bodies back in the room, Dave, and he says, well, 266 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, I may have given some families. I may 267 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: have given some families ashes that weren't really their loved ones. 268 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: What Yeah, so you're not cremating the bodies. What you're 269 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: doing is you're going out and I don't know, maybe 270 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: you're getting bits of burned wood, cloth, gravel, anything else 271 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: and put it into an urn. As this family, this 272 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: family that has trusted you with the most precious thing 273 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: that they have, dude, you know, with a loved one, 274 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: and you're leaving them to ride in the back room, 275 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: and you're giving us, you're giving us and look, you know, 276 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: if you have a family member that has c remains 277 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: in their home or maybe a friend, you go there 278 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: and it's generally placed in a place of honor, you know, 279 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: maybe on a mantelpiece or somewhere, and it's there to 280 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: be seen and remembered, I think by most families. Can 281 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: you imagine finding out, Dave, that you don't have your 282 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: grandma's remains. You have a bunch of old burned up 283 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: sticks or charcoal or something like that that somebody has 284 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: essentially given you back into medically sealed you know, earn 285 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: that they probably charge you too much money for in 286 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: the first plays, and you've got this thing displayed on 287 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: your mantelpiece there and then all of a sudden, it 288 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: would Can you imagine how gutting that would be if 289 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: that was your loved one up there and you find 290 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: this out. And this is what these families are finding 291 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: out about this guy. They just assumed that they had 292 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 1: their loved ones remains and they didn't. They were rotting 293 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: back in this room, David. 294 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: Well, the thing that gets me, Joe is I'm back 295 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: to this is the county coroner. He's a person in 296 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 2: a trusted position. Oh boy, he sought that position out. 297 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: And he's the owner of this Davis Mortuary in Pueblo, Colorado. 298 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 2: So you've got a person who is dedicated and you 299 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: mentioned before this is a family business, something that was 300 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 2: part of his life generationally, and I would expect that 301 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: somebody in this position not just would know better, we 302 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 2: all know better. There's not one person right this minute 303 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: that thinks for a second, you can open up a building, 304 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 2: call it a mortuary and take people's money, go dig 305 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: up dirt, put it in a box, and stack the 306 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: bodies in the back. 307 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 308 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: The fact that it's the inspectors showed up means they 309 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: were thinking there was a problem, Joe. Somewhere, somebody said 310 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 2: something's not right. Now. I don't know who it was, 311 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: but you only had twenty bodies. They're only fucking twenty. 312 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: That's not a lot, not compared to another story we have. 313 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: So you get twenty, but they stink and they're back here. 314 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you what else is straws into 315 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: question day because I wanted to return back to this. 316 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: You mentioned corner. Okay, if you you know, you have 317 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: those things that are seen and unseen, right, and so 318 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: those things that are seen relative to this violation of 319 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: law and where you're deceiving people, you're lying to people, 320 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: this sort of thing, and this is out the sunlight 321 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: has has been blasted on to the situation. What about 322 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: all the other things that may be unseen? Because if 323 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: you're in a position where you are the corner, Dave, 324 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: there is a title that is given to the corner 325 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: from county to county. You know what that title is. 326 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: It's actually the official certifier of death. And so if 327 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: you're the certifier of death, that means that you are 328 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 1: given special authority under the law to go out and 329 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: perform examinations or appoint someone to do examinations, like you know, 330 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: pathologists and other physicians that can do you know, autopsies 331 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: on cases you're actually making determinations about manner and cause 332 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: of death. Dave, you're signing death certificates. How how do 333 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: I know that you can be trusted with those circumstances 334 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: when so much rest upon your conclusions as the principal 335 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: death investigator in a county where families are sitting back 336 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: and let's say you've got a case that might be undetermined. 337 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: The family thinks that it's accident, and you are trying 338 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: to weigh this out in your brain. You're trying to 339 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: apply maybe a scientific methodology to this to understand what 340 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist is telling you from the autops of 341 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: your own and you fail in that duty, Well, now 342 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: you might have a family that's going without money because 343 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: insurance didn't pay out. You know, can you be trusted 344 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: in these bigger things? I think that's what it you know, 345 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: for me at least, that's one of the things that 346 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: comes down to. Also, you know, you just think about, 347 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, the corners on the tip of the spear 348 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to public health, because they're the first 349 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: person that can recognize patterns if you have some kind 350 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: of disease outbreak or anything that's going on in a community. 351 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: Maybe you see, maybe because you're the first person at 352 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 1: the scene, you're suddenly seeing an uptick. And then numbers 353 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: of death rated are numbers of deaths that are related 354 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: to fentanyl. But yet you're not on top of it. 355 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: You're distracted, or you're doing something else, or you've decided 356 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: that it's not as important because you're the primary investigator 357 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: of deaths, all deaths. It's not just homicides, it's all deaths. 358 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: That's how broadness is, and unfortunately it spreads out from there. 359 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: It impacts everybody. You know that you know, the this 360 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: idea of you know, you're kind of sitting out there. 361 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: You know, death is a very personal, one on one 362 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: kind of thing. When families have a death, not everybody 363 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: in the community is aware of it. You're suffering silently, 364 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, you know the what do they say about 365 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: the British way? You know, you do things in silence, 366 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: and you're there alone with death. Now, if you're there 367 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: alone with death, the one person you're going to constantly 368 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: two people you're gonna have contact with, is going to 369 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: be the corner and you're going to be the funeral director. 370 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: This guy's wearing both hats this community, so do you. 371 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: I hope that I'm laying this out accurately. It's just 372 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: the consequences of these actions are so far reaching. I 373 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: would imagine Dave, that's simply based upon this this bit, 374 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: the state attorney General and probably certainly the DA for 375 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,719 Speaker 1: Pueblo County has got to be looking into cases that 376 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: he is handled as the corner. 377 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: Dave going to have to And you have to, Man, 378 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: You've put that in such a way, Joe, that I 379 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 2: didn't consider. I was looking at this merely from okay 380 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: level one. Why are you stashing bodies in the back 381 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 2: when your job is to get rid of it, to 382 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: bury them or cremate them. That's your job, and you 383 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 2: chose to not do your job. You took money and 384 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: did not do your job. That's one thing. Some of 385 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: us are feeling different about the dead than others. I 386 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 2: get that for some families this would be something that 387 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: you would never be able to make amends. Others know 388 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: they're going to be less severe. But let's go with 389 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 2: the extreme. Let's go with those that you're not going 390 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: to There's nothing you can say or do to change 391 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: what you have done. There is nothing this is that bad. 392 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking somebody in this profession, you've got at 393 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: least twenty bodies, twenty dead bodies, and the best you 394 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: could think to do was to keep them in a 395 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: back room where anybody coming into your building is going 396 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 2: to smell it. And again, now back to my original 397 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 2: question with you about the odor, the smell of human decomposition. Well, 398 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 2: the reason people say it is something you'll never forget 399 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: is because the average person is not around decomposition. We're 400 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: not around dogs, cats. We have it, we take care 401 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: of it, We get rid of it. You know, we don't. 402 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: We don't have a dead animal around us for any 403 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 2: length of time because of the odor. We get rid 404 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: of them. Where when you deal with the dead body 405 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: as you do, where you're having to examine and spend 406 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: time with it, that's a different scenario. Now you're talking 407 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: to somebody here that actually, rather than do the job 408 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: he was paid to do, he stashed them and knew 409 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: it was wrong. It's not like there was a slip 410 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: of consciousness that he has some mental issue going on. 411 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: He knew it was wrong. He tried to hide it, 412 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: He disguised it behind a fake wall, fake door, whatever 413 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: it was. By the way, it was made of a cardboard, 414 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: so I'm guessing, yeah, it's a cardboard something, which if 415 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 2: you're trying to cover up something that ain't help, that's 416 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 2: not happening. If my dog was in there, you'd smell it. 417 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 2: But that's why I think this is so frustrating, Joe, 418 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: is those of us we have so little control in 419 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: our life that when our loved one dies, we feel 420 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: like we owe it to them to preserve their memory. 421 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 2: And this is the only way we can is what 422 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 2: we do. They're no longer here to defend themselves. They 423 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: can't fix this. It's our job, whether you know, it's 424 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: our loved one, and it's my job to take care 425 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: of my loved one. And you I invested my heart 426 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: in this, and you dropped the ball man. But beyond that, 427 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: you took money. Yeah, you took money, and you stashed 428 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: my You stashed Granny in the back and took the 429 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: family's last money. They had to have it. They had 430 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 2: to have a yard sale to pay you to cremate 431 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 2: the body, and you did, and you gave them some 432 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: rocks and her body is still here. I mean, Joe, 433 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: that goes about as bad as it gets. 434 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: It does go really bad really quickly. And I got 435 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: to tell you, Dave, and my opinion if because this 436 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: is a fraud case and we're going to get into 437 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: another case it's very similar to this, but this is 438 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: a fraud case, and I would think that on at 439 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: least some level, the Feds would probably have an interest 440 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: in this. If there's any kind of wire fraud involved 441 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: in this or anything like this, you know, you could 442 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: be looking at federal time. And it was only I 443 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: guess it was a year ago, Dave that I think 444 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: it was what's it called the Sunshine I can't remember 445 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: the Sunshine funeral mortuary place in Colorado, and these this 446 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: woman I know in that particular case went up on 447 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: federal charges based upon what she had been doing with remains. 448 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, means it was Meghan has and Shirley Cot. Those 449 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: dude defrauded family members, dismembered bodies, and then sold them 450 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: illegally the body parts. I remember when you brought that 451 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: to me, I'm like, come on, man, this is like, 452 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: come on, this can't be real. Yeah, I really think 453 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, they're fake news sites and 454 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: they look real, and I thought this. Come on, there's 455 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: there's a legitimate answer this, and there wasn't. Just like 456 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 2: there is not a legitimate answer for the County corner 457 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: owning a funeral home and stacking bodies in the back 458 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: or stashing them. We don't know exactly how he kept 459 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: the bodies, do. 460 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: We No, No, we don't. And here's another piece to this. 461 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that embalm bodies. Let me see, how 462 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: can I phrase this. I'm not saying that embalm bodies 463 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: don't decay, and don't think they do. Okay, you're merely 464 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: slowing down the inevitable. Okay, it's kind of you know, 465 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: from dust, We came from dust. We will return. I 466 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: don't care how many chemicals you have in your body. Now. 467 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: I've done exhamations on bodies that where I remember one 468 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: case in particularly, we pulled a guy on the ground 469 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: that had been in there for sixteen years, and except 470 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: for a little mold on his face, he looked pristine, 471 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: absolutely pristine, didn't have a foul od or about any marinething. 472 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: My question is this, it's kind of a baseline thing 473 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: that if you're storing bodies in a non refrigerated area, 474 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: you would think, at least think that they would be 475 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: embalmed and preserved. My question is, not only are you 476 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: not cremating the bodies, are you telling me that you 477 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: didn't spend however many bucks it was on the embalming 478 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: fluid that it would take to embalm these bodies and 479 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: preserve them. Because that's what we're hearing, Dave, is that 480 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: the smell almost knocked them down. You know, when they 481 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: get in there, they're smelling the smell. So you're telling 482 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: me that you actually had non preserved human remains in 483 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: this environment. They haven't been embalmed. It's just a question. 484 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm just asking. I think it's a legitimate question. Did 485 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: you not embalm the But that's like, that's like funeral 486 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: director one oh one. You know, you're I'm not talking 487 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: about lighting the fire in the crematory or you know, 488 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, doing all the stuff you have to do. 489 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm merely talking about going to the embalming room and 490 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: setting things up in order to start the profusion of 491 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: the body. You didn't do that. I'm trying to understand 492 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: here because it just doesn't make sense. But you know, 493 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: in this world of the dead, there's a lot of 494 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: things that we don't understand, just like maybe a funeral 495 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,479 Speaker 1: director and one location in state of Colorado who actually 496 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: dismembers bodies and sells us parts for medical experiments. Or 497 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: maybe a case from back in two thousand and two 498 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: in state of Georgia where it wasn't twenty bodies, it 499 00:31:46,280 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: was three hundred. They've had a friend of mine that 500 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: was a forensic anthropologist, and this individual worked with me 501 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: in Atlanta at the Emmy's office and for a time 502 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: they were the state forensic anthropologist for Georgia. And he 503 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: told me a story that first off, it it chilled me, 504 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: but it also broke my heart. And I want to 505 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: relate this to you right now. The year was twenty two, 506 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff going on the news back then. 507 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: I remember, you know, the world was changing rapidly. And 508 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: this case pops up in Lafayette, Georgia, not Louisiana, but 509 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: Love Georgia. People in Georgia called Lafayette, but it's Lafayette. 510 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: I'm from Louisiana, so I'll call Lafayette. There was a 511 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: report that bodies had been found. Now, anytime, you know, 512 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: I hear a news report and that says that body 513 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: has been found. You got my interest, all right? I 514 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: want to know when you're saying bodies, I mean body 515 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: will catch my attention. You start saying plural, and then 516 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: all of a sudden the numbers start trickling out. Well, 517 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: this friend of mine had told me he had been 518 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: summoned up there to this location, and it was on 519 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: private property. A house had a small nineteen sixties mid 520 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: sixties brick ranch house on it with a pond in 521 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: the front, nothing pretentious or over the top. And then 522 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: there was these buildings out back of it, big piece 523 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: of property surrounded by pine forest, and they were finding 524 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: stacks and stacks and stacks of human remains in various 525 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: stages of decay. My friend said that he was walking 526 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: along with two state law enforcement agents abreast through the woods, 527 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: and they'd look just ahead of them and there's a 528 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: piece of plywood laying on the pine needle floor beneath. 529 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: I think these were like pulpwood pines, you know, where 530 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: they're planted in rows, and they'd reached some level of maturity. 531 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: There's a piece of plywood, and he said he saw 532 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: what appeared to be a baby doll, and as they 533 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: approached it was not a baby doll. It was a 534 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: baby and still had the little id bracelet around the 535 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: ankle the newborns that are placed on newborns still had 536 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: a little diaper on the body, and this baby had 537 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: been placed out there. It turned out that it was 538 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: these remains were one of the three hundred plus perhaps 539 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: remains that were allegedly being taken care of by Ray 540 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: Brant Marsh, who ran Tri State Crematory in Georgia and 541 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: Tri State. It's Tri State because it approximates Tennessee, Alabama, 542 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: and Georgia's right at the confluence of those three states 543 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: up there. So they had business. And this is important 544 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: to understand. This guy did business with funeral homes from 545 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: the Tri State area. The reason he did business with 546 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: these funeral homes is because not every funeral home has 547 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: a crematory. It's a big deal to have a crematory. 548 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: It's a lot of work, all right. There's all these 549 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: certifications you have to get through and so forth and 550 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: so on. Eint nunces out of this world. Well, he 551 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: had a crematory, and so what he would do He 552 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: worked as I guess you'd call it a subcontractor. He would, 553 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, he would be paid by the funeral home. 554 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: That was part of the cost. They would bring the 555 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: body to him, he would embalm the bodies, send them 556 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: out with an urn, and they would go forth. Well. 557 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:26,959 Speaker 1: For a number of reasons, apparently his crematory no longer work. 558 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: There was even evidence, Dave, that he had attempted to 559 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: hook the crematory up to propane gas tanks to make 560 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: it work. And of course, as you well know, propane 561 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: don't burn nothing like natural gas, all right, And to 562 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: operate a crematory, it is a constant job, and you 563 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: have to have sufficient fuel, and it's generally natural gas 564 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: that you're going to have to have because you're gonna 565 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: have to get tempts up to about eighteen hundred degrees 566 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: fahrenheit in order to render down human remain. And he 567 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: didn't have it. He just didn't have it. But what 568 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: he did have were do you remember how I mentioned 569 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: just a second ago about the concrete cryps that you 570 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: see going down the road. You know, they're like concrete boxes. 571 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: If you ever see these things on the back flatbed truck, 572 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. And they go 573 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 1: out to grave sites and they lower these things into 574 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: the ground and the body within that's casket. It goes 575 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: into that container and then the lid is put on 576 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: the top of it. Brother Dave, he had multiple of 577 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: these things out at the site. And what he would 578 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: do is he would take bodies that he would be 579 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: contracted to cremate. He pick them up from funeral homes. 580 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: They'd be brought to him, and he would take them 581 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: and layer them inside of these crips, just throwing them 582 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: on top of one another. You had bodies of laying 583 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: around on the ground. There were just there were remains. 584 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: I remember talking to people at the time. They said 585 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: that they they really couldn't take take the full measure 586 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: of what they were seeing because, you know, unlike this 587 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: recent case in Colorado, this is these are three hundred bodies. 588 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: Three hundred There are civil war battles, skirmishes that didn't 589 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: result in three hundred deaths. So you've got three hundred 590 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: bodies laying all about this property. What you know? And 591 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm actually just kind of speaking out loud here because 592 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: I don't know how I didn't go to the scene 593 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: there in that particular case, had friends up there. But 594 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: it's like, how does your brain even begin to absorb this, 595 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, to kind of take it in what you're seeing. 596 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 2: Just think about it for just a minute, Joe, You've 597 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 2: got three hundred bodies. That means three hundred people have 598 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 2: paid to have that body cremated. They've paid the full 599 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 2: rate that you charge. It's not like you didn't get paid, 600 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: you didn't do the job. He got the money to 601 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 2: do the job, and as you mentioned, he tried to 602 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 2: operate it with propane and just goes to show you 603 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: we're not dealing with the mental giant here. It's not 604 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: like your back barbecue. You know that you can just 605 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 2: work it with something else. But the bottom line here, 606 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 2: he was paid three hundred times or more, and rather 607 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 2: than do the job that he swore to do and 608 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: promised his communities, Laurel, he opted to steal the money. 609 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 2: I mean, it's no different than if I just put 610 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 2: on a suit and coat and tell everybody Dave's crematoria 611 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 2: is open. Give me your money. I'll put it right 612 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 2: here and I'll take care of your loved one. I'll 613 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 2: go out in the back scoop up some sand in here. 614 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just beyond anything I can even I 615 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 2: just for the love cannot understand some people and either 616 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 2: fact that he's not the only that's not even okay. 617 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 2: Three hundred in Georgia. We got another one in Colorado. 618 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: It's one hundred and ninety. He's stacking them up in 619 00:39:58,960 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 2: an old building. 620 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: This is within the last two years. There's even another 621 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: one that I know that I think that people probably 622 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: remember this, this kind of burst on the scene where 623 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: we had there was a guy's Let me see, how 624 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: can I explain this? This is again, this is in Colorado. 625 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:29,720 Speaker 1: We've got a fellow who who had abandoned the funeral 626 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: home had been closed down for a while. He has 627 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: a residence just in the Denver area where they find 628 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: a hearst day the dig this, they find a hers 629 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:47,919 Speaker 1: there there is a woman's body inside the hearse and 630 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: deposited throughout this guy's house or boxes of crewmaines that 631 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: were never turned over to families and there he's literally 632 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: got them in the cross spaces. You know, Look, I 633 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: know that life can be a bit overwhelming sometimes, but 634 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: you you look at the choices that individuals make when 635 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: it comes to the care, the care of the deceased 636 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: and not simply the care of the deceased. You know, 637 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: you'd mentioned we were talking about well, let's just take 638 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: the guy back with the twenty the top of the show. Yeah, 639 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: all right, Codder. 640 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Brian Cotter, Davis Martory, Publo, Colorado. 641 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: Pueblo, Colorado. They used to the zip code after that too. 642 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: But anyway, the just think about the one family member 643 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: that is exchanging funds. That one family member has probably 644 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: got multiple other family members that are related to the deceased. 645 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: So the impact of this thing is not merely the 646 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: one person that has paid the money. You're talking about 647 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: something that is so scarring to a family that when 648 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving rolls around, Christmas rolls around, and you're sitting around 649 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: the table and you're staring at each other, there will 650 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: be this abiding sadness that will inhabit your soul forever 651 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: because you remember that loved one sitting at the table 652 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: breaking bread with you. And you're blaming yourself because you 653 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: chose this person to help you when you were the weakest, 654 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: and they failed, not just as a corner, not just 655 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: as a funeral director, but I submit to you that 656 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: they failed as a fellow human being. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 657 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: and this is body bags, no