1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steel and Paul'sweenye. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: The real app performance has been the US corporate high yield. 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 3: Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the fats? 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business. 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe. 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 3: Do investors like the M and A that we've seen? 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: These are two big time blue chip companies. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 3: Window between the peak and cut changing super fast Bloomberg. 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Intelligence with Alex Steel and Paulswhennye on Bloomberg Radio. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: On Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show, we dig inside the big 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: business stories impacting Wall Street and the global markets. 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: Each and every week we provide enough research and data 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 3: on some of the two thousand companies and one hundred 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 3: and thirty industries our analysts cover worldwide. 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: Today we'll take a look at how one company is 16 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: looking to fix your terrible board meetings. 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 3: Plus we'll discuss how the energy transition will drive a 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: significant uptick in demand for metals. 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: But first, we got the Olympics coming up this summer 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: in Paris. How cool was that going to be? But 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: good luck try to get a hotel room there or 22 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: trying to get accommodation to anywhere. You know, who would 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: know about this stuff. Airbnb. Dave Stevenson joins us. He's 24 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: the chief business officer for Airbnb. Dave talked to us 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: about your business in Paris for this summer. What are 26 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: you guys seeing. 27 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 4: You know, one of the great things about having airbnbs 28 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 4: in Paris is that the actual the volume of airbnbs 29 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 4: have gone up pretty dramatically. We have forty percent more 30 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 4: active listings than we had a year ago. And by 31 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 4: having those extra listings, we're actually able to keep prices 32 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 4: reasonable because we're able to add so much capacity to 33 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 4: the stays there. So there are still places available. You know, 34 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 4: we're only twenty four days out, but you know you 35 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 4: can keep booking. There are airbnbs ready for guests to 36 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 4: come from around the world. 37 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know why everyone's leaving Paris. Yeah, all 38 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 3: the preachers to like, get me out of here, and 39 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: they're going this outh of France anyway, sorry, go ahead. 40 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 4: So David, well, it's how bad they're actually able to earn, 41 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 4: you know, two thousand euros on average for a host 42 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 4: in Paris, and so yeah, many people do leave and 43 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 4: share their homes and welcome people from other countries to 44 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 4: come to the vilops. 45 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: Talk to us about where the where you're seeing travelers 46 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: come from to Paris. 47 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. Some of our top countries are the US, 48 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 4: UK and actually people from other areas of France coming 49 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 4: into Paris for the Olympics. We're also seeing some interesting 50 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 4: trends where people are staying. You know, the Olympics are 51 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 4: actually not only in Paris, They're kind of spread around 52 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 4: the country and so you know, we're seeing people staying 53 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: in airbnbs in Lelle where some of the basketball is 54 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 4: being played. You know, We're seeing them in Leone where 55 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 4: some of the football, you know, soccer matches are being played. 56 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 4: You're seeing Spaniards and Brazilians stan Bordeaux because their national 57 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 4: teams will be playing soccer out there. So we're not 58 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: just seeing people come in Paris, They're staying in airbnbs 59 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 4: all around the country. 60 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: That's interesting. I did not know that you also transition 61 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: recently from CFO to CBO. Is that so chief financial 62 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: officer to Chief business Officer? 63 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 5: How is that? 64 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: Like? 65 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 3: What how does your job change with that title? 66 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm the Chief Business Officer I'm also the 67 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 4: head of Employee Experience, so the head of HR, which 68 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 4: I've been doing now for three years, but the chief 69 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 4: business officer, you know, I'm focused on growth of a 70 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 4: company and expanding into new and new business areas. So 71 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 4: we're expanding beyond the kind of core stays business here 72 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 4: at Airbnb into things like services and experiences over time, 73 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 4: and so me and my team, that's what we're focused on, 74 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 4: growing the existing business and expanding into new ones. 75 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: So for just the business in general, how is travel 76 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: this business as we crank up here in the US 77 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: for fourth of July, and then of course in Europe 78 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: they have their big travel during the summer, particularly August. 79 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: Give us a sense of kind of where you're seeing 80 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: the business these days. 81 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we're seeing more people travel this summer 82 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 4: than they ever have before on Airbnb. Continency, great growth, yes, 83 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: strong growth, especially from your Americans travel to Europe. You know, 84 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 4: we continue to have a strong dollar, which enables strength there, 85 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 4: and we're actually seeing you nice strength and people even 86 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 4: traveling from US into Asia. 87 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 3: US into Asia, okay, which is not rippin' dollar. Yeah, 88 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: you just won't even go anywhere pretty much. What about 89 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 3: the opposite, is anyone coming to the US. We're making 90 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: any money on Airbnb here in the US anymore. 91 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 92 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: I mean, the people are still traveling from overseas in 93 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 4: the US. You know, actually the majority of our travel 94 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 4: still is actually domestic travel in any given country. So 95 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 4: we're kind of talking a lot about people moving around 96 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 4: the world, but a lot of the travel is just 97 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 4: people going. You know, in the US, it's a lot 98 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: of beach destinations. You're seeing great traveled down to Florida, 99 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 4: up onto the East Coast, you know, onto the Jersey 100 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 4: Shore and other places. So you know, people are still 101 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 4: traveling out to the beaches to visit with family and 102 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 4: enjoy the fourth of July. 103 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: Dave, what's a typical or prototypical Airbnb customer look like? 104 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 4: You know, there we have customers of all kinds. You know, 105 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 4: it's everything from young gen Z, millennials to families. You know, 106 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 4: a large number of our people in travel in airbnbur 107 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: group travel. Multiple people travel together because you get more 108 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 4: you might get multiple bedrooms, you have multiple amenities, often 109 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 4: with a kitchen, you know, maybe a washer and dryer. 110 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 4: It's one of the things reasons why we've recently launched 111 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 4: some of these group travel features to enable more people 112 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 4: to stay together more easily. We have things like shared Wishless, 113 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 4: shared messaging capability, and that's helping in Paris where over 114 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 4: fifty percent of the people traveling to the Paris Olympics 115 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 4: have three or more people, and so the group travel 116 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 4: is a key benefit of staying on Airbnb. 117 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: That's a good point. What are there trends that you're 118 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 3: you think you're going to be dealing with in twenty 119 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 3: twenty five, kind of after we get through the Olympics. 120 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 4: You know, I think we're going to continue to see 121 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: strength and travel. I think one of the things we've 122 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: seen since the pandemic is that people realize how much 123 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 4: they miss being able to kind of travel, be with 124 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 4: family and friends, that experiences are maybe more important than things. 125 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 4: I think that trend will continue, and we're going to 126 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 4: see people wanting to spend time with family and friends 127 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: doing things together. 128 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: So that's the big. 129 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 4: Trend that we'll see in twenty twenty five, continued experiences. 130 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: Our Thanks to Airbnb Chief business Officer Dave Stevensim. 131 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: We now moved to the cloud space. ZECH, a cloud 132 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: based software company, is now trying to fix any potential 133 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: dread that you may have for an upcoming board meeting. 134 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: The company distills hundreds of pages of corporate documents and 135 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 3: to interactive websites for boards to expedite meetings, and even 136 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: has an AI product. And recently ZECH announced it close 137 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 3: a seven and a half million dollar investment led by 138 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: Salesforce Ventures. 139 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 2: For more and all this, we were joined by ZECH 140 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: co founder Edward Norton. We first asked him more about 141 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: what ZECH is trying to do. 142 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 6: We're trying to make the experience between management of organizations, 143 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 6: and I say that meaning corporations or nonprofits because obviously 144 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 6: we've got a couple million nonprofit organizations in this country 145 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 6: that have governance and boards and stuff like that. We're 146 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 6: trying to take what we feel is an increasingly toxic 147 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 6: dynamic and reform it into being what it's supposed to be, 148 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 6: which is a relationship that that propels in organizations, supports, 149 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 6: you know, brings additional leverage positivity to an organization. And 150 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 6: we you know, I've definitely had some people say to me, like, 151 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 6: you have an interesting day job, why would you get 152 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 6: involved in. 153 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: And your day job Just for folks that on the radio, 154 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: Edward Norton Actor has been in a bunch of movies 155 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. 156 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, the and I and I will I will admit that, 157 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 6: you know, on the surface, like a software platform for 158 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 6: for board governance features seems pretty esoteric. But it grew 159 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 6: out of it grew out of my own experiences over 160 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 6: the last thirty years, not dissimilar to years from serving 161 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 6: on the board of arts organizations, serving on you know, 162 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 6: conservation organization boards. And then as I built my own companies, 163 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 6: and I've built a few software companies that that we 164 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 6: had our own boards, people like Fred Wilson from Union 165 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 6: Square or you know, Excel or gray Lock or these firms. 166 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 6: We were on the management side and we were experiencing 167 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 6: what it meant to have a board. And then when 168 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 6: I sold one of my companies and I joined the 169 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 6: board of GoFundMe, the company that acquired us, you know, 170 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 6: I started sitting on corporate boards and my partners and 171 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 6: I really started feeling that there was this elephant in 172 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 6: the room, which is that is that companies go through 173 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 6: four to eight times a year. They go pencils down 174 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 6: to get ready for this thing that essentially to them 175 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 6: feels like a hall monitoring moment and board members. On 176 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 6: the other hand, when I was a board member, the 177 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 6: thirty six hours before the meeting, you get a ninety 178 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 6: page PDF and you're supposed to read it in the 179 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 6: airport terminal, and then you go to the meeting and 180 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 6: get it read back to you. You know what I mean, 181 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 6: Like there was just and so. 182 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: You're looking to make it a more what interactive visual 183 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: engaging experience. 184 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 6: I think we say two things. One is quantitatively, board 185 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 6: meetings are an enormous waste of time for everybody, and 186 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 6: that has to do with the amount of redundant time 187 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 6: waste on setting these meetings up and the presentation materials. 188 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 6: And that can be crushed down by having cloud based 189 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 6: AI powered tools that make it like a tenth the 190 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 6: time for a company. On zech a company can set 191 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 6: up for a board meeting in one tenth the time 192 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 6: that they were using to prep before it. Board members 193 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 6: should get to read something that's you know, you wouldn't 194 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 6: read in the New York Times or Bloomberg on a PDF. 195 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 6: You read it in a mobile friendly scroll right that 196 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 6: we expect that now, and so everything about the user 197 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 6: interface should be easier for both sides of the table. 198 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 6: But also think about this, think about how much time, 199 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 6: how many professional, talented people with time is valuable sit 200 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 6: there in board meetings, approving minutes, approvals, approving stock option packages, 201 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 6: things that they ought to be able to do from 202 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 6: the airport lounge in advance. So we built governance function 203 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 6: that can be interactive and mobile. 204 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: And also so your customer is the board. 205 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 6: The customer is the company and the board. You know, yeah, 206 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 6: both sides, management and board members suffer in different ways, 207 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 6: and we've tried to reform it. But when you crush 208 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 6: the redundant inefficiency of time waste, you improve the quality 209 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 6: of the meeting too, because a board meeting should be 210 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 6: a forward looking experience, not a You don't want to 211 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 6: spend hours looking backward. Everybody can ingest the looking backward 212 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 6: part before the meeting. You want the meeting to be 213 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 6: propulsive and additive to where the company or the organization 214 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 6: is trying to go. And the best thing about what 215 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 6: people are saying to us is not just oh, we 216 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 6: really love the user interface. It's much easier, it's easier 217 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 6: to read. We love that they're saying to us. This 218 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 6: has radically improved the quality and the value of the 219 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 6: meeting itself and what we're getting out of our board. 220 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: So you guys just raised about seven and a half 221 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: million Series A led by Salesforce Ventures, including some other 222 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 3: guys as well. 223 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 5: What are you gonna do with it? 224 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: And what's sort of your angle here? 225 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 5: Well? 226 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 6: You know, I think if you look at I mean, 227 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 6: first of all, Salesforce to this day is still I mean, 228 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 6: they still are the greatest innovator in cloud based corporate tools. 229 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 6: And I've known Mark Benyoff a long time, even though 230 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 6: I never told him that we were doing this with 231 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 6: his own team until it was done because I didn't 232 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 6: I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want it 233 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 6: to come from the top down. The Salesforce team is 234 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 6: really phenomenal. But you know, our fantasy was to work 235 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 6: with Salesforce because really nobody, nobody understands the business of 236 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 6: cloud based corporate tools better than they do. And I 237 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 6: also like their ethos as a company. I think they 238 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 6: have a great customer service ethos there. But you know, 239 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 6: if you look at think about today, would you ever 240 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 6: get a FedEx package with with signature tabs on your 241 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 6: legal documents? 242 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 7: No? 243 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 6: You get it in DocuSign now. 244 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 5: Right, You don't. 245 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 6: You don't manage your cap table in Excel spreadsheets anymore. 246 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 6: You use Karta, and we've we've made this evolution towards 247 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 6: Lots of aspects of corporate function have gone into the cloud, 248 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 6: but this really critical function hasn't. And we think that 249 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 6: on a business level. To be honest, if you look 250 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 6: at you know Karta, which is a seven billion dollar 251 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 6: private company, and docu sign is a fifteen billion dollar 252 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 6: public company, there's an enormous market in relatively low priced 253 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 6: corporate software tools, and we really thought this was a 254 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 6: good business. We think there's a very large marketplace of 255 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 6: companies and nonprofit orgs that need to reform this critical piece. 256 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 3: All right, thanks, is that co founder Edward Norton. Coming up, 257 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: we're going to break down the Supreme Court decision to 258 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 3: overturn the Chevron Rule and how that could put climate 259 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 3: targets at risk. 260 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in 261 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: depth research and data on two thousand companies and one 262 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via 263 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: b I go on the terminal. 264 00:12:53,600 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 3: I'm Paul Sweeney, m Alex Steel, and this is Bloomberg. 265 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steelen Pohlsweened on Bloomberg Radio. 266 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 3: Last week, the Supreme Court overturned a nineteen eighty four 267 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: decision known as a Chevron rule that experts say, we'll 268 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: make the EPA's job to regulate methane and carbon dioxide 269 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: emissions more challenging, potentially putting US climate targets at risk 270 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: for more. We spoke with Bloomberg Intelligence senior ESG Climate 271 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: analyst Andrew John Stephenson. 272 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 8: If you think about the Clean Air Act, that's the 273 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 8: biggest thing the EUP has ever done. It started in 274 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 8: nineteen seventy with one document that said basically, go to it. 275 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 8: We need to reduce the amount of air pollution in 276 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 8: the air. We need a lot of different levers to 277 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 8: pull to make that happen. We're kind of deferring to 278 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 8: experts to do that. And you know, they did it 279 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 8: for about twenty years. And then they had another revision 280 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 8: Clean Air Act too, and that's the one that we're 281 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 8: enjoying today with when they basically said, you did a 282 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 8: decent job, let's keep going, Let's keep driving down the 283 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 8: air pollution. And you know, here we are today with 284 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 8: the cleanest there we've seen in you know, since the 285 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 8: nine early nineteen hundreds basically, so it's been very, very successful. 286 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 2: Yeah I'm not that old, but I remember first going 287 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: the Los Angeles earlier in my career and you could 288 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: see the smog. Literally it was brown, it was orange, 289 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: kind of funky. Now you rarely have ever have any 290 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 2: problems out there, so I kind of have been a 291 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: fan at EPA. It's given the Chevron ruling. What does 292 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: it mean for climate in your part of the world. 293 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: What's it mean for the energy industry? 294 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 8: I mean, it's troubling on a couple fronts. The first 295 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 8: is with respect to the oil and gas industry. The 296 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 8: big oil companies have done a basically a fantastic job 297 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 8: of driving down a big chunk of their pollution from methane. 298 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 8: So methane is really the thing that you really want 299 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 8: to address when it comes to the oil and gas industry, 300 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 8: which is just sort of leaking natural gas into the atmosphere. 301 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 8: And the bigger companies have done a fantastic job, but 302 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 8: the smaller companies, basically are the private companies, haven't moved 303 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 8: on it. And so the leadership we've seen from Exon 304 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 8: Mobile and others. Has been really transformative in terms of 305 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 8: what's happening for the bigger companies. But unless the APA 306 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 8: does work to kind of push along the rest, and 307 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 8: we're talking about still half of the production comes from 308 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 8: small companies that are private, we're not going to get 309 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 8: anywhere near where we need to go on from an 310 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 8: emission standpoint from the oil and gas industry. So that's 311 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 8: sort of one. The second is really with respect to 312 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 8: the power sector. So the power sector, we need more power. 313 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 8: We've basically gone from having a coma power growth over 314 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 8: the last decade and now because of AI and evs, 315 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 8: we have power demand somewhere around two and a half 316 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 8: percent a year and that has to be filled with something. 317 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 8: And it looks like gas is going to be a 318 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 8: candidate in the next several years because there's just so 319 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 8: much demand that needs to come online. And there was 320 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 8: a ruling at least from the APA that the gas 321 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 8: companies that they were going to build a new power 322 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 8: plant would have to capture that gas, and that doesn't 323 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 8: look like it's going to happen. 324 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 3: So because of the ruling, I mean the power coma 325 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: that was actually a grit I'm going to steal that. 326 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: I hope that's okay. So you were a ESG climate analyst, 327 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 3: so that's environmental, social and governance. Does the social and 328 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: governance part of your job get affected by the Supreme 329 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: Court decision? 330 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 8: Well, so people, some of the people think of the 331 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 8: environmental it does conclude chemicals and things like that. Obviously 332 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 8: that's going to be a bigger problem the social If 333 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 8: you think about health, that's really what's going to happen 334 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 8: with respect to this ruling. So we are going to 335 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 8: have poorer health. I mean, the ability for judges to 336 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 8: make decisions that are very complicated, I mean you're talking 337 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 8: about I mean I just mentioned the Clean Air Act. 338 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 8: That's a fifty year project with thousands of people working 339 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 8: on it to have an opinion on how to get 340 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 8: from A to B. And we are now expected to 341 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 8: have judges have an opinion that is just wildly professional 342 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 8: in a number of areas, and that includes things like 343 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 8: PF the kind of forever chemicals. So that's going to 344 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 8: affect health and food safety. So there's a lot of 345 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 8: things on that side that are going to be affected 346 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 8: as well. 347 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: So do we have any experience on kind of how 348 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: this works out side of the regulatory agencies? Are the judges? 349 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 2: Are they making reasonable rulings when applicable? 350 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 8: So yeah, I mean the pushback was that these are 351 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 8: the judges and the agencies. There's no interaction and there's 352 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 8: quite a bit that goes on and I think the 353 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 8: agency you'll only win about seventy percent of the time. 354 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 8: So the judges actually have had input into this, but 355 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 8: you're really relying and it can swing both ways. Which 356 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 8: is the really kind of conterintuitive part is that you 357 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 8: could have a judge that the sides it needs to 358 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 8: be more stringent, right, so it can go in different directions. 359 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 8: And I mean it's ultimately been deferred to the Chevron 360 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 8: defense and they say, okay, well let the agencies deal 361 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 8: with it. And now we have that kind of open air, 362 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 8: open terrain. So it's very difficult to see how things 363 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 8: move as smoothly and in such an organized fashion as 364 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 8: we've had previously. 365 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, cause the other side will say, well, judges do 366 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: this all the time, like they're ruling on different cases 367 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: that they don't have an expertise about all the time. 368 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: What's the difference for the companies that you cover? Which 369 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: companies will be the most impacted. 370 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 8: So the companies that are really if you think about 371 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 8: what's going on with the growth of you let's just 372 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 8: talk about power for a second. The companies that are 373 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 8: really taking up a challenge with respect to you know, 374 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 8: power demand going up and dealing with it. Really on 375 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 8: a kind of the clean energy front. There's two benefits. 376 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: You get. 377 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 8: You get paid for capex right when you're a utility company. 378 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 8: So the more of that capex that goes into renewables 379 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 8: and grid and things like like that, you get basically 380 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 8: one hundred percent of that money is you can earn 381 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 8: a return on it, whereas if you build a gas 382 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 8: plant you only get about half that because half of 383 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 8: the cost of the plant is in fuel and you 384 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 8: don't get paid for that is a utility. So the 385 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 8: companies like Constellation Energy are still expected to do very 386 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 8: well next Era Energy because of the IRA, are getting 387 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 8: very strong incentives to continue to produce as much clean 388 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 8: energy as they can, and they're going to there if 389 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 8: you look at their stock prices, they've reflected that in 390 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 8: the last little bit. But from the other side of 391 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 8: the equation, which is the oil and gas industry, the 392 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 8: leaders are already the leader, you know, and they've performed 393 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 8: exceptionally well. If you look at the group that is 394 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 8: the lowest methane producers have done very very well against 395 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 8: the other. 396 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 3: Guys, all right, thanks to Bloomberg Intelligence Senior ESG climate 397 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 3: analyst Andrew John Stephenson. 398 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: We next take a look at the Swedish Swiss company ABB. 399 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: ABB is a technology leader in electrification and automation, enabling 400 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: a more sustainable and resource efficient future. 401 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 2: Guests hos Chessman and I were joined by ABB chairman 402 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: Peter Vassar. We first asked Peter where the focus this 403 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: company is these days. 404 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 9: It's clearly it's the energy transition, which is not only 405 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 9: the hard to abate sectors, it's in general the move 406 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 9: from a more fossile driven energy system into an electric 407 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 9: energy system. And there we obviously contribute with our products 408 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 9: and systems, which gives us energy savings between twenty and 409 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 9: forty or even fifty percent. So that's one angle. The 410 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 9: other one is all linked to new technologies around automation 411 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 9: and robotics, because we are we're leading company in both areas, 412 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 9: and that has to do with the reshuring bringing things 413 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 9: closer home again where the markets are but also in 414 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 9: some countries dealing with the demographics because we have less 415 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 9: and less people working in the working age, and therefore 416 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 9: robotics and the automation becomes very important. And the last 417 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 9: one is AI, which will revolutionize obviously all what's related 418 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 9: to automation. In the future. 419 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 5: We'll talk to us more about what you think is 420 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 5: the best way to try to scale manufacturing. When it 421 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 5: comes to the EVE charging space. 422 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 9: I think what we really need on the emobility side, 423 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 9: let me put it this way, is really work on 424 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 9: two fronts. One is a technical side on the charging side, 425 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 9: but the other one is also on the user friendliness side, 426 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 9: so that they become actually more reliable, they are much 427 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 9: more modern. On the manufacturing side, I think we have 428 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 9: had clearly in some countries and regions there was some 429 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 9: scarcity of manufacturing capacity, which I think have been sold. 430 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 9: Was not an issue for ABB in that sense, but 431 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 9: it's the product evolution which is very key. 432 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 5: Now. 433 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 9: On the other side, I think one that should not 434 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 9: forget that the whole network of electrification needs to be 435 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 9: up to speed. You cannot just actually consume much more energy. 436 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 9: You also need to build the transmission lines that the 437 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 9: power actually comes in where we have got let's say 438 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 9: the charge is installed either for private passenger cars or 439 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 9: for buses, ships, trains, whatever you want to call it. 440 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 9: So I think we need much more infrastructure investments on 441 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 9: the one side, and really really to actually get the 442 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 9: EV charging and the passenger cars based on electrification much 443 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 9: more developed in the future. 444 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: Peter, who are some of your bigger customers that you're 445 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 2: working with these days? 446 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 9: We are here in the United States, so we have 447 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 9: all kind of factoring companies in that sense. But on 448 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 9: the industrial side, any any company you can think of, 449 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 9: which are they are in manufacturing space, for example, they 450 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 9: use our actification products, they use our automation products. So 451 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 9: you have all the industrial companies and that's where we 452 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 9: make the difference. The other side, utilities are very key. 453 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 9: As I just said, they need to make sure we 454 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 9: have an off supply. 455 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: And I know, I'm just looking at our PGeo function 456 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 2: where I can see where your revenue comes by geography, 457 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 2: you're everywhere. You see certain parts of the world that 458 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: are more in front of you know, kind of making 459 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: the transition then some others. 460 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think I would say that Europe has started 461 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 9: this rather early with the new green deal in Europe, 462 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 9: but also moving into a very different energy systems paid 463 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 9: some price with the wars in Russia. So energy prices 464 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 9: have gone up and that some rethinking has taken place. 465 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 9: I think here in the US you quite clearly see 466 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 9: the demand is there in all industries now supported by 467 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 9: the various acts you have here, either the Inflation Act 468 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 9: or then also the Industrial Act, and that is driving investments. 469 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 4: Now. 470 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 9: It's much earlier days than in Europe. For example, Hia 471 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 9: is a little bit of mixed back, I have to say. 472 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 9: So you see some countries at the leading edge, like 473 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 9: smaller countries like Singapore. In China, which is our second 474 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 9: biggest market after the US, you see actually a lot 475 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 9: of efforts now being put in place to change the 476 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 9: electric system in China. A lot of TV cards are 477 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 9: coming in and you can see that those really are 478 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 9: now generating the growth in China by city subdued compared 479 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 9: to the US at this stage. So indeed, we are 480 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 9: operating across the world in more than one hundred countries. 481 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 9: We get good insights at the moment. The driving forces 482 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 9: are really the US and Europe, with let's say Asia 483 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 9: apart from India, are lacking somewhat. 484 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 5: So where else do you go to expand from here 485 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 5: when you already are in so many places. 486 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 9: It's quite clearly US is our key number one market 487 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 9: and that's where we have a developing We have over 488 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 9: the last ten years, we have put more than fourteen 489 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 9: billion dollars into the US in terms of investments. We 490 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 9: have got forty manufacturing sites in twenty states. We're operating 491 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 9: in all states with our services, et cetera. So that's 492 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 9: a key market. We see the electrification market in the 493 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 9: US as key, but also the industrial one, which has 494 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 9: a lot to do with bringing home let's say, manufacturing 495 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 9: capabilities and capacity. And then the second one is clearly India, 496 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 9: which at the moment is in terms of growth outstripping 497 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 9: all other countries in a big way. They are very 498 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 9: low in manufacturing capacity and that's where a lot of 499 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 9: investments now for the high end manufacturing goes in. And 500 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 9: then the third one will be Europe quite clearly as 501 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 9: the European Change INDI energy system, but also the demographic 502 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 9: issues which we have in Europe which will take out 503 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 9: about fifty million kind of working people over the next 504 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 9: ten years and that needs to be replaced by automation 505 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 9: and robotics, so there's a lot of Freema spins on 506 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 9: going there. 507 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: Thanks to Peter Vasser, chairman of ABB. 508 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: Coming up on the program a conversation with Next Era 509 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: Energy CEO John Ketchum and how the demand for power 510 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 3: is dramatically increasing. 511 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in 512 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: depth research and data on two thousand companies and one 513 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via 514 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: b I go on the terminal on Paul Sweeney. 515 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: And am Alex Steel and this is Bloomberg. 516 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steele and Paul Sweeney 517 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. 518 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 3: We begin with a look at the company Next Era Energy. 519 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 3: It's ticker is NEE. Next Era Energy is a leading 520 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 3: clean energy company headquartered in Juno Beach, Florida, and it 521 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 3: provides clean, affordable, reliable electricity to approximately five point eight 522 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 3: million customer accounts or more than twelve million people across Florida. 523 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: For more on how the demand for power is dramatically increasing, 524 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: we were joined by Next Era Energy President and CEO 525 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: John Ketchum. We began by asking him more about what 526 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: his company does. 527 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 10: We're made up of two businesses. One we own the 528 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 10: nation's largest rate regulated utility, Florida Power and Light, and 529 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 10: two we are the world's leader in renewables when solar 530 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 10: battery storage. A unique combination bringing those two companies together. 531 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: But you still have like nuclear and gas too, right 532 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 3: like it we do for the utility. 533 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 10: Side, we do so we covered all. We're in every 534 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 10: part of the energy value chain, not only renewables. We 535 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 10: have six gigawatts of nuclear and one the best operators 536 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 10: in the country on the nuclear side. And we also 537 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 10: own gas fire generation. Seventy two percent of our generation 538 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 10: fleet in Florida's actually natural gas fired. So we view 539 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 10: ourselves really as a very credible source in being able 540 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 10: to advise our customers on what the lowest cost option 541 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 10: is for generation. 542 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 2: Owning a utility electric utility in Florida would seem to 543 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: be a tough business with all the weather down there. 544 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 2: What happens when these storms come through? How do you guys? 545 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: You have to almost be in a constant state of 546 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: emergency almost to be able to react. 547 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 10: We are battle tested. That's one of the great things 548 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 10: about our company is that nothing catches us up by 549 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 10: surprise and it comes from a culture of continuous improvement 550 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 10: and innovation, and we practice and we drill, and we've 551 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 10: had what forty nine hurricanes in the last twenty or 552 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 10: thirty years. We're never caught by surprise. We're a company 553 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 10: that is used to managing through diversity and that's one of. 554 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 5: The strengths catch by surprise. 555 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 3: So there was an investor presentation that you made and 556 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 3: you did you where you outline your forecast this year 557 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 3: through twenty twenty six. You're also twenty twenty seven midpoint 558 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 3: profit forecast. That's the one that analysts said that falls 559 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 3: short of our estimates. Yeah, and I guess the question 560 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 3: is if data demand and data power is going to 561 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 3: drive so much demand for your stuff, why isn't that 562 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 3: midpoint higher. 563 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 10: Well, here's what we see, and we talked a lot 564 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 10: about this at the analyst day. There are three things 565 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 10: that I think really differentiate next Era as part of 566 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 10: our value story. One, we're seeing an inflection point and 567 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 10: power demand. Two it's going to be met by renewables 568 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 10: because it's low costs, fast to deploy, and it's clean. 569 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 10: And no companies better positioned to meet it than we are. 570 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 10: And our business model has always been what I would 571 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 10: call a replacement cycle. We were building new renewables to 572 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 10: replace higher cost coal plants, higher costs, less efficient gas 573 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 10: fired units, oil fired units. We now have this new 574 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 10: opportunity that's really emerged in the last six to nine months, 575 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 10: which is what I call our growth cycle opportunity. It's 576 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 10: a new demand that has come and it's across industries. 577 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 10: It's not just data centers get a lot of discussion, 578 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 10: but it's industrial electrification, reshoring, and manufacturing as well. But 579 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 10: when you think about it, we're having all these discussions 580 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,479 Speaker 10: with these customers now. Take data centers, for example, it 581 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 10: takes two to three years to build a data center, 582 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 10: so they won't need the power until twenty twenty seven. 583 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 10: We might sign a contract today, but the power comes 584 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 10: in twenty seven, which means it contributes in twenty eight. 585 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 10: And so we're trying to explain to investors, Look, we 586 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 10: have a tremendous long term growth outlook, but a lot 587 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 10: of this growth cycle demand is really going to start 588 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 10: materializing and producing revenues and earnings in twenty seven, which 589 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 10: means it really starts to contribute in twenty eight. 590 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: As you walk through me Manhattan. You probably see some 591 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 2: empty office space here. I think they all move down 592 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: to your state. Talk to us about how that's impacted 593 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: your business in terms of demand and maybe what you 594 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: have to invest back into your grid. 595 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 10: Yeah, and that's what's great about our business right is 596 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 10: the Barbell approach. We've got the nation's leading great regularly 597 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 10: utility in Florida and the world's leader in renewables in Florida. 598 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 10: We're seeing tremendous growth over the next twenty years. We're 599 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 10: projecting a forty four percent increase in GDP. We have 600 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 10: one thousand people a day moving to the state of Florida. 601 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 10: Four of the five fastest growing metropolitan areas in the 602 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 10: United States are in Florida. Florida, we're a country, it 603 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 10: would have the fourteenth largest economy in the world, and 604 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 10: we're there to power all that growth. So our growth 605 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 10: story is not only about what I just discussed about 606 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 10: all this renewable demand that we see power in AI 607 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 10: and industry and manufacturing across the United States, but it's 608 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 10: also all the growth that we see right in our 609 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 10: own backyard in Florida. 610 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 3: Talk to me about rates. So you're going to need 611 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: to invest a lot, right, Like there's maybe an enormous 612 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 3: investment cycle, as you mentioned, like the growth cycle for utilities, Right, 613 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: what is it like on the regulated side of going 614 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 3: back to the government and saying, Okay, guys, I got 615 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 3: to invest it, you've got to raise the rates. 616 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 617 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 10: And so what we do is we have done a 618 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 10: terrific job of taking cost out of our business. So 619 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 10: when you look at what we've been able to do 620 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 10: over the last twenty years, our O and M on 621 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 10: a dollar per megawate hour basis is seventy percent seventy 622 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 10: percent lower than the national average. That's three billion dollars 623 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 10: we put in our customer's pocketbook every single year compared 624 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 10: to an average utility. And we've always been able to 625 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 10: make really smart capital investment decisions around bringing low cost 626 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 10: generation into the fold. And the lowest cost generation option 627 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 10: that we have in Florida is sole in storage. So 628 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 10: although we're investing more capital, it's actually lowering the bill 629 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 10: because it's a lot cheaper than other generation alternatives, combined 630 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 10: with our ability to take cost out with the way 631 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 10: we operate. 632 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: But for you, from your investor's perspective, is a unit 633 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: of power from a renewable source. What's a profit margin 634 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: on that versus maybe an existing source. 635 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 10: Well, when you think about renewables, I mean, renewables, you know, 636 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 10: have really strong returns and they're low cost, and you 637 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 10: talked about you know, interest rates, you being one of 638 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 10: the factors. We pass those costs through to our customers. 639 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 10: And so the cost of wind and solar has gone 640 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 10: up a little bit as we've seen some pressure you 641 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 10: know here from the macro environment, So have cost increase 642 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 10: for every other type of generation. Actually, gas fired generation 643 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 10: has really gone up in price. And so you know, 644 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 10: what we have seen with gas fire technology is a 645 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 10: fifty percent increase in the last twelve months. That has 646 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 10: not happened to renewables, making renewables even lower costs than 647 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 10: they've ever been on a relative basis to gas turbine options. 648 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 3: So what I hear is that everything is just more 649 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 3: expensive because that's the environment that we're in. But because 650 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 3: you're able to take costs out, the rate payer may 651 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 3: not get hit as hard. Is that a fair statement? 652 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 10: That's exactly right. And so what we've been able to 653 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 10: do in Florida, our bill is thirty seven percent lower 654 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 10: than the national average, thirty seven percent. It's because of 655 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 10: our ability to take all those costs out of the 656 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 10: company and also offer them low cost renewable solutions as 657 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 10: part of the generation mix. And when you put those 658 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 10: two together, that's how we're able to achieve that thirty 659 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 10: seven percent lower bill than the rest of the nation. 660 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 10: That's a really compelling customer value proposition and investor value proposition. 661 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: All right, thanks to John Ketchum, President and CEO of 662 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: Next Era Energy. 663 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 3: Staying with energy, we have something here at Bloomberg called 664 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 3: Bloomberg New Energy Finance. The idea behind it is to 665 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 3: provide data on commodities, power, transport, industries, buildings and agriculture 666 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 3: plus new technology. 667 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: This week we looked at how the energy transition will 668 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 2: drive a significant uptick in demand for metals. 669 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 3: Bloomberg and EF estimates six trillion dollars worth of key 670 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 3: metals will be needed between twenty twenty two and twenty fifty, 671 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 3: and to reach net zero emissions by mid century that 672 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 3: number leaps to ten trillion. 673 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: For more. 674 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: We were joined by sung at Choie Bloomberg, BNEF Metals 675 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 2: and mining analysts. We first to ask some to comment 676 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 2: about the amount of metal that would be needed in 677 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: the energy transition. 678 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 7: As we progress through the technologies where we shift from 679 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 7: fossil fuel to clean energy, and with the innovation and technologies, 680 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 7: especially in the transportation sector and data sector as well 681 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 7: and power grids more, obviously more metals will be needed. 682 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 7: In order to get the electrons flow. You need metals. 683 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 7: That's pretty obvious right now. The particular categories of metals 684 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 7: that are of interesting is lithium and copper. Those two 685 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 7: metals are very interesting at this moment. 686 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 2: Where do we get these metals and is that a 687 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 2: concern where we. 688 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 7: Do get them? Yes, that is a concern. So for me, 689 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 7: demand is is of a concern, but it isn't too 690 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 7: much of concern. Supply is more of the concern. The 691 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 7: reason for that is the reason that I say that 692 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 7: is because many of the places that have had this 693 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 7: particular resource, such as copper and lithium in areas where 694 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 7: it has very sensitive political and social landscape. And in 695 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 7: order to get those you know, supply out of the ground, right, 696 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 7: miners have to navigate through those complicated situations. Right For example, 697 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 7: many people forecast that the copper will be in surplus 698 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 7: for twenty twenty four, but will be a surplus. It 699 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 7: will be a slight surplus. For twenty twenty four, there was, 700 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 7: there was the expectation. But then at the start of 701 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 7: this year right in Panama, Cobrat Panama was you know 702 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 7: done for many reasons. Right as a result of that, 703 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 7: we're experiencing this, you know, run open copper prices right 704 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 7: because there's a displocation between a copper minds plot and 705 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 7: the smell the capacity. 706 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 3: So here is where I think raises the problem because 707 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 3: you're looking at a structural shift among metals that are cyclical. 708 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 3: So that's one area where we were surprised to the upside, 709 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 3: and now we're going to see a deficit. But then 710 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 3: I look at lithium, and we knew the ev revolution 711 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 3: and the batteries, we were going to need lithium. So 712 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 3: all of a sudden the lithium guys, and a lot 713 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 3: of them are in South America. When Game Busters, they're like, 714 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 3: we need all this lithium. It's going to be awesome. 715 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,479 Speaker 3: The demand's going to be there, and then the price 716 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 3: is crashed and then they had to shut down some 717 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 3: of their operations because it wasn't economic anymore. We do 718 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 3: need the lithium, but we didn't needed that day. 719 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: How do we manage that with everything? 720 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 7: You know, timing is everything, but it's really impossible to 721 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 7: predict any type of timing with any type of investments. Right, 722 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 7: So copper is in this moment right now. For lithium, 723 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 7: that was two years ago, right, all this hype around 724 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,959 Speaker 7: you know, electric vehicles use of lithium, difficulties in getting lidium, 725 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 7: so all the investments poured in into lidium space and 726 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 7: as a result of that, there's currently there is an 727 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 7: oversupply issue with lithium. 728 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: Right. 729 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 7: But despite the oversply issue, the lithium industry is really 730 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 7: at the cusp of a paradigm shift in technology innovation. Right. 731 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 7: There's this thing called direct lithium extraction technology where you take. 732 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 2: The direct lithium extraction, yes. 733 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 7: Direk lithium distraction technology. So there's two routes where you 734 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 7: could extract lithium. There's mainly a hard rock with them 735 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 7: where you take the spodium, you mind it at the 736 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 7: rock and you process it. 737 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 5: All. 738 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 7: The process is brian. You take you take the brian 739 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 7: and you extract the lithium out of it but water, 740 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 7: but using evaporating method, so you basically you're using some 741 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 7: like to evaporate the water out of it and extract 742 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 7: lithium and that takes two years. Now DL or diark 743 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 7: lithium extractions. That's gonna bring that lead time down to 744 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 7: two weeks instead of two years. Oh so main competition 745 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 7: versus you know, heart rock that is right now, that's 746 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 7: going to be a you know, game changer for the 747 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 7: industry where it's gonna actually lower the cost card. It 748 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 7: may load the cost card. It's a bit too early 749 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 7: to tell right now, but at the you know, at 750 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 7: the cost of commercialization of this technology, it may loader 751 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 7: the cost card and it may you know, change the 752 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 7: industry forever. 753 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 3: Our thanks to Sung Choi, Bloomberg and e F Metals 754 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 3: and Mining Analysts. 755 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 2: That's this week's edition of Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, 756 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 2: providing in depth research and data on two thousand companies 757 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 2: in one hundred and thirty industries. 758 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 3: And remember you can access Bloomberg Intelligence through b I Go. 759 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 3: I'm a terminal, I'm Alex. 760 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 2: Steel, and I'm Paul Sweeney. 761 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 10: Stay with us. 762 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up 763 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 2: right now.