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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the

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Speaker 1: Death of Me, a production of I Heart Radio. Hi,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Good afternoon, Brandon, what time is it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Good to know? Good to know. I always keep me

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Speaker 1: posted about the time. We have a very special guest

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Speaker 1: in studio today, somebody who has been an influence in

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Speaker 1: my life without ever having met him, because he co

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Speaker 1: founded the Headspace app. Brandon, you know how much I

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Speaker 1: love my head Space I do, and I'm really leaning

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Speaker 1: into it now. Uh Hi, Yeah, he's leaning into it.

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Speaker 1: It's Andy Pudico me. I'm going to say that wrong.

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Speaker 1: So I said it wrong, so you can correct me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I say yeah, but you can say however

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Speaker 1: you like, yeah, because we don't know that you know

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Speaker 1: the right pronunciation of exact exactly. Who knows he's got

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Speaker 1: it right. First of all, congratulations on a very very

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Speaker 1: successful app. Thank you very much. And I know you

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Speaker 1: co founded it with your business partner. Yeah, he's actually

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Speaker 1: a very dear friend. I mean we we are the

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Speaker 1: most accidental entrepreneurs ever. We started it at ten or

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Speaker 1: eleven years ago because we felt really passionate about it.

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Speaker 1: We actually started a not for profit and one thing

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Speaker 1: that to another and it became this thing, and now

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Speaker 1: it's a thing that about fifty six mill people have

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Speaker 1: downloaded and news that is amazing. It's crazy. It's amazing

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Speaker 1: because sometimes I go on and it'll say, okay, you

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Speaker 1: can meditate now, there's one thousand, you know, five people

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Speaker 1: meditating right now, and you can join in, and another sentence.

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Speaker 1: I never thought i'd hear myself say like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to do my group meditation. You know, it

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Speaker 1: catches on. It becomes like an addiction, Like anything else

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Speaker 1: in your life that makes you feel good, you want

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Speaker 1: to do more and more of it. And believe me,

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Speaker 1: that has changed. I mean, trust me. Like ten years

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Speaker 1: ago when we were we were starting this, I mean one,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't an apple at that stage. We were running events,

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Speaker 1: but we just hadn't got to that point in popular

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Speaker 1: culture where people were happy to talk about sort of

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Speaker 1: meditation and mindfulness and and just looking after the health

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Speaker 1: of the mind. I just don't think we were there

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Speaker 1: at that point. No, it seems like there is a

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Speaker 1: shift in consciousness happening. I think also with the back

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Speaker 1: drop of our political system right now all across the world,

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Speaker 1: what's going on. Yes, yes, yes, don't. If you don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on, it's better to not look and

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Speaker 1: just wait for it to pass. All the meditation. The

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Speaker 1: more I watched the news, the more I meditated. So,

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Speaker 1: but let's talk a little bit about your personal history.

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Speaker 1: So you were born in London. I was. And then

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Speaker 1: what happens what happened next over the next futy odd years.

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Speaker 1: So I was born in London, but very when I

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Speaker 1: was about too I moved to the Southwest of England

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Speaker 1: by yourself, on my own. Yeah. My parents are very progressive,

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Speaker 1: just let us do whatever we wanted and more neglectful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you My mom insisted it was progressive, so let's

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Speaker 1: go with that. Know. So we grew up in the

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Speaker 1: south West of England, which actually is a very progressive

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Speaker 1: kind of place, which is probably why I ended up

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Speaker 1: sort of going to meditation classes when I was like

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Speaker 1: ten or eleven years old. Yeah, that is progressive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think it was unusual for that time.

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Speaker 1: Especially these days it's available in school and all kinds

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Speaker 1: of different places. But back then that was a really

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Speaker 1: kind of unusual, unusual thing. But I had a mom

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Speaker 1: who worked, you know, she worked she changed a hypnotherapist, psychotherapist.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had a flotation tanking our garage that

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Speaker 1: people will come around and us. I mean we were

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Speaker 1: definitely kind of on the outer edges in the French.

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Speaker 1: That was definitely yeah say yes, yeah, I catch what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. Yeah. So, in some ways, really really normal

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Speaker 1: kind of upbringing. You know, I was a young man,

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Speaker 1: I was playing football and tennis and rugby and all

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Speaker 1: those kind of things, hanging out with mates, and yet

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Speaker 1: there was this other kind of side and going on

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Speaker 1: as well, and with the parents like that. That was

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Speaker 1: your father into that too. Father most definitely was not

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Speaker 1: like that, which is probably why they got divorced when

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Speaker 1: I was about ten. So Dad was very strongly rooted

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Speaker 1: in Christian faith. Some of that stuff was slightly outside

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Speaker 1: of his comfort zone, I would say, yea, and very caring,

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Speaker 1: very supportive father, but they had very very different interests.

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Speaker 1: So growing up with a mother that was kind of

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Speaker 1: spiritually connected, did that show in her parenting? I think

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Speaker 1: you did. I Mean, it's funny because on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: I say that stuff was going on, and on the

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Speaker 1: other hand that it was just a very normal kind

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Speaker 1: of upbringing. You know, I think she was very She's

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Speaker 1: very caring, very supportive, she's very well kind of educated

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Speaker 1: a guest through her own training as a therapist, so

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Speaker 1: she probably lets some stuff go that some parents might

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Speaker 1: not let go. But equally she come down pretty hard

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Speaker 1: on us, so you know, we didn't get away with it.

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Speaker 1: Definitely wasn't one of those households where you could do

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Speaker 1: whatever you wanted. And yeah, I think people have an

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Speaker 1: idea of like people who are into that, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially previously when when I'm sure we're close in age,

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Speaker 1: when we were growing up, it's like it was meditation

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Speaker 1: was thought to be a lot more woo woo than

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Speaker 1: it is now. For sure, there certainly weren't apps or people. Well,

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Speaker 1: there was no internet at that point, so that probably

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Speaker 1: what comes first, the chicken or the egg, the app

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Speaker 1: or the internet. Um and so okay, so you grew

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Speaker 1: up doing that, and was it something you were prideful of?

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Speaker 1: Like did you tell your your bros that you were

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Speaker 1: going hard to meditate or get into it? I did so.

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Speaker 1: I I told one friend, a dear, dear friend of

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Speaker 1: mine who I trusted so much until that day. Um,

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Speaker 1: I still love him now, but I did tell him.

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Speaker 1: And the next day I walked into school and it

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Speaker 1: was into our I can't went with rules studies class

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Speaker 1: or something like that, and everyone was sat on the desk,

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Speaker 1: cross legged, chanting, sort of arming at me as I

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Speaker 1: came in the room, and I realized at that point

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Speaker 1: I couldn't trust this really good friend of mine. He

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Speaker 1: told everybody. Um and again it just I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: for a minute that would happen now. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: was so long ago. I mean I can't even remember

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Speaker 1: how long ago. That was, thirty five years ago or something. Um,

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Speaker 1: So it became something that I just did and didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about. And then fast forward and you decided to

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Speaker 1: become a monk. I did. Yeah, why, I know, it

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Speaker 1: sounds within the context of how most of us live,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a really big leap For me at

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Speaker 1: that time, it felt like the most natural thing in

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Speaker 1: the world, and everything in your life had been leading

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Speaker 1: to that direction. Was there something that flipped the switch

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Speaker 1: on for you? Yes? So I was I trained as

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Speaker 1: a personal training I was working as personal training studying,

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Speaker 1: which always leads to much which always like everyone right,

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Speaker 1: all the all the person the best personal trainers you

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Speaker 1: know end up being monks on nuns. No, so I've

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Speaker 1: been training and working as that. I was at university

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Speaker 1: studying sports science, so I was going down the route

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Speaker 1: definitely of health, but not really feeling particularly fulfilled. And um,

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Speaker 1: I was involved in a car accident or a group

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Speaker 1: of us standing outside a party one night, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a drunk driver crashed into into the group and killed

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Speaker 1: two people and injured you know, a lot, really badly.

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Speaker 1: And I think of all the things that led up

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Speaker 1: to it, that was one of the major things that

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Speaker 1: kind of got me thinking, am I doing as much

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Speaker 1: life as I would like to? And am I getting

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Speaker 1: the kind of fulfillment out of life that I would

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Speaker 1: like to. I definitely didn't go through a conscious process

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Speaker 1: of should I be doing this or should I be

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Speaker 1: a monk? What are the pros and cons of being

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Speaker 1: a Buddhist monk or anything like that. I just found

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Speaker 1: myself one afternoon with a strange conviction like knowing what

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Speaker 1: I needed to do. And I went into university that

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Speaker 1: same afternoon and I told my my lecturer that I

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Speaker 1: was going to quit university and I was going to

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Speaker 1: go and be a monk. And he said, You're mad,

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Speaker 1: and he said you should go and see your doctor. Um,

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Speaker 1: and there's some really good anti depressants that you can

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Speaker 1: try to inflammatory. That's what they give people who want

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Speaker 1: to be What are you laughing at, Brandon? You know

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Speaker 1: that's true. You know that I'm a pharmacologist. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean and you know, one thing that to another.

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Speaker 1: And three months later I found myself in him alayas.

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Speaker 1: You know, Wow, one does such an exciting life story.

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Speaker 1: And so when when you become a monk, you have

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Speaker 1: to renounce or denounce many things, right. You definitely give

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Speaker 1: up a lot of stuff, material things. Yeah, you give

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Speaker 1: away you can actually give away everything. You have to

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Speaker 1: give away all your clothes, you know, any money. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money at the time, so

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Speaker 1: it was easy. What about your Pokemon cards? You have

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Speaker 1: to give those, I should imagine you do. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have a large collection. Um. The only thing that got

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Speaker 1: away was my my mom stashed all my photos in

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Speaker 1: the attic. She didn't want me to give those away.

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Speaker 1: But everything else kind of went. And you give up sex,

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Speaker 1: You do give up sex? Is one of the man

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Speaker 1: hesitated about that that well, it was probably the thing

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Speaker 1: that I was most resistant at that age one would

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Speaker 1: be almost twenty two years old, right, So that was

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Speaker 1: one of the bigger challenges, I would say, But you

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Speaker 1: felt the deepest poll you had was that you felt

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Speaker 1: that you had to do something more to give back

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Speaker 1: to life or to feel life like what was it

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Speaker 1: that you were missing or that you were after? So

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Speaker 1: I think there were two components to it. I think

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Speaker 1: part of it was an escape and part of it

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Speaker 1: was an exploration. I think the escape part I was

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Speaker 1: wanting to get away from a mind that seemed to

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Speaker 1: be working excessively but like a washing machine, just going

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Speaker 1: around around around, feeling overwhelmed by emotion and not really

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Speaker 1: knowing how to sort of deal with that. And then

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Speaker 1: the kind of the exploration side was wanting to feel

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Speaker 1: kind of more connected. I think I felt quite isolated

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Speaker 1: from from the world. I felt, although I was surrounded

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Speaker 1: by people, I felt quite lonely, and I think wanting

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Speaker 1: to connect and wanting to kind of almost get beyond

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Speaker 1: the thinking mind. I wouldn't have known how to describe

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Speaker 1: it at that time, but I think that was where

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get to. It sounds like like a

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Speaker 1: term for enlightenment, right to experience enlightenment. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: definitely it's funny in retrospect because you know, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of ridiculous as well, like enlightenment, I think because it's

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Speaker 1: held up there is this like this idea that we

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Speaker 1: need some new language. We definitely need to replace the

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Speaker 1: word journey because that's so a going from The Bachelor.

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Speaker 1: They ruined a lot of worlds, and we need to

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Speaker 1: replace enlightenment because you know, even awakening feels like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to have many awakenings, not just the awakening,

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Speaker 1: and many awakenings they say lead to enlightenment. Is that accurate? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And well look the way it was described to me,

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Speaker 1: and this won't necessarily resonate with everybody, but I found

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Speaker 1: it really helpful. Was rather thinking of enlightenment as a

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Speaker 1: place over there, something we need to get to, somewhere

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Speaker 1: we need to get, rather think about it as stability

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Speaker 1: of being present. So in every single moment that is

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Speaker 1: an enlightened moment, if we are present in the moment

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Speaker 1: multiple times that day, then we're having multiple moments of

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Speaker 1: enlightenment throughout the day. When we get to a point

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Speaker 1: where we have stability of being present, non distracted, there

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Speaker 1: is an enlightened kind of state. And I found that

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Speaker 1: a really useful way rather than thinking of always trying

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Speaker 1: to get to somewhere or achieve something, instead in terms

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Speaker 1: of letting go of everything and just being present. And

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Speaker 1: when we do that, we kind of find what we

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Speaker 1: were always looking for. Yeah, And that through practice you're

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Speaker 1: able to be more and more present throughout the day

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Speaker 1: and just training. That's and it's it's almost I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's deceptively kind of a simple. It's almost so

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Speaker 1: ordinary that we can't believe that that's what it is,

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Speaker 1: and so we kind of find ourselves looking for something

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Speaker 1: more than that, right, and then we get disappointed, and

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Speaker 1: we set up lots of expectations, and we get frustrated,

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Speaker 1: and we give up meditation and you know, all these

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Speaker 1: things that people get into and out of all the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think the most important lesson I've learned is

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Speaker 1: that the more frazzled you are about making the time

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Speaker 1: to meditate means the more you need to do it

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Speaker 1: and the more impact it will have that day or

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Speaker 1: in then that time period. But back to your monk,

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Speaker 1: could Okay, so you make this commitment, how long is

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Speaker 1: the commitment. So first you train as a as a layperson,

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Speaker 1: then you train as a as a novice monk, and

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Speaker 1: then and then you ordain as a fully or dained monk.

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Speaker 1: So in Southeast Asia, want to get in too many

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Speaker 1: sort of technicalities here, but in case he was listening, well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's pretty interesting. So Southeast Asia, you can

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Speaker 1: go in and out of the monastery up to eight

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Speaker 1: times in your lifetime. There is no sort of fixed

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Speaker 1: term that you go in four You can just go in.

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Speaker 1: It's very easy if you want to come back out

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Speaker 1: a month later or a year later or five years later,

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Speaker 1: and then you return eight times. You can go up

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Speaker 1: back in and out up to eight times in your

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Speaker 1: in your lifetime. And what happens after the eighth time

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Speaker 1: you're cut off? I think that's it. That's someone at

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Speaker 1: the gate sort of checking your standford. Yeah, you can't

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Speaker 1: come in. Sorry, I don't know how it works. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I trained in the Burmese tradition for about

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Speaker 1: five years and then I swept over the to the

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Speaker 1: Tibetan tradition for five years. And in the Tibetan tradition

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Speaker 1: you take a commitment for one year, three years, five

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Speaker 1: years or life. And I mean it's a massive jump,

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Speaker 1: right for five years to life. I feel like they

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Speaker 1: should have had some more seven and a half years

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Speaker 1: should be the next something like that. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: a yeah because he has a lot, right, because you

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Speaker 1: would have to I would think a logical person or

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Speaker 1: a reasonable one would have to commit to a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of time of or first take it for a

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Speaker 1: little spin and see if this is something you can

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Speaker 1: commit to for the rest of your life. Is that

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Speaker 1: what must be? So I thought this was this was

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Speaker 1: kind of the genius at the approach. I thought was that.

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Speaker 1: So you go in and it's a little bit like university,

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Speaker 1: you know. So you you go and maybe you take

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Speaker 1: a three year commitment, so doing a bachelor's right, and

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Speaker 1: you if it's going well, you decided to stay, you

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Speaker 1: take perhaps another two years commitment or three years commitments

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Speaker 1: like doing a master's. Some people will stay and do

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Speaker 1: the equipment of PhD, and those will be the teachers

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Speaker 1: that will live in the monastery forever and teach, and

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Speaker 1: some people will leave and then go and kind of

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Speaker 1: get jobs. So it's not like everyone goes in and

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Speaker 1: stays in for life. There's definitely a sense of kind

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Speaker 1: of coming coming and going. And I remember the very

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Speaker 1: last commitment I made. I had to decide between three

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Speaker 1: years in life and when I set off to become

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Speaker 1: a monk. I really thought I was gonna do it forever.

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Speaker 1: I really thought, you know, I thought, yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was going to be almost said journey. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to say a journey. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: going to be my way, you know, in life. And

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Speaker 1: so I had to go and see my each of

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Speaker 1: the next day and I decided I'm just gonna leave

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Speaker 1: up to him. Genuinely couldn't decide. It was the first

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Speaker 1: kind of moment where I wasn't really sure and um,

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Speaker 1: and he said, well, why don't you just do another

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Speaker 1: three years kind of see how you feel that at

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Speaker 1: the end of that, and um, and we'll talk again.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really really grateful that he just said three

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Speaker 1: years rather than life, because I'm happy he saw the

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Speaker 1: direction life is. Let's take. Yeah, I would imagine. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we all are usually end up happy with our decisions

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Speaker 1: in the long run, don't we. I think so more

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Speaker 1: often than not. Yeah, as long as you're in the

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to accept it at a certain

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Speaker 1: point that this is your life and if you're not

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Speaker 1: behind it, then you're not You're not on your own team.

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Speaker 1: And even even I think those decisions that seem really

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Speaker 1: hard or the difficult at the time, I think often

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Speaker 1: in retrospect we look back and go, Wow, that was

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Speaker 1: so difficult, and yet now, actually I'm so happy that

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Speaker 1: that happen. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back. And so what as one do

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Speaker 1: all day for three years other different levels of training,

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Speaker 1: I would assume yes, So throughout that kind of time,

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Speaker 1: there's a surprising number of options. Okay, well, I think

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Speaker 1: you need to break them down. I'm very curious. So

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Speaker 1: you could live in the monastery and not necessarily do

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Speaker 1: a ton of meditation. If I know monks and nuns

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Speaker 1: who do no meditation, they wanted to be in a

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Speaker 1: community of light minded people. They do gardening and cooking

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Speaker 1: and cleaning, They help run the monastery, they help keep

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Speaker 1: it sort of ticking over. And then there are some

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Speaker 1: that do a little bit of meditation some of the

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Speaker 1: day and some of those other duties. And then there

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Speaker 1: are those that are really kind of have a passion

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Speaker 1: for meditation. I probably put myself in in that bracket. Um,

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Speaker 1: And so you do, you tend to do a lot

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Speaker 1: of retreat so you might go into a I don't know,

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Speaker 1: three three months, six months, year long, four year retreat

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Speaker 1: and you just you meditate all day, every day. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's the gig we were at. I was at

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Speaker 1: a retreat last week at I M. S In Barry,

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts for victims of gun violence. My friend put it together.

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Speaker 1: Sharon Salzburg was there and some other teachers were there,

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Speaker 1: and so it was victims of all different school shootings

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Speaker 1: throughout the country. And it was a four day retreat.

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Speaker 1: But there was a monk that was there. He came

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Speaker 1: to breakfast every morning at and win his robes and

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Speaker 1: you're not supposed to talk to him. And he was

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Speaker 1: there for a year. But on either side of this retreat,

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Speaker 1: there were two other retreats and one was a silent

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Speaker 1: retreat and they said two people had been there for

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Speaker 1: two years. And I just couldn't fathom the idea of

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Speaker 1: something like that. You get into it, you settled into it.

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Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of people experienced trauma and

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Speaker 1: then go to do something like that, yes. Often. I

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Speaker 1: think the challenge of that, though, is that it's a

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Speaker 1: very revealing process, and often you experience those traumas, thoughts,

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Speaker 1: feelings with greater intensity within a retreat because there's no

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Speaker 1: where to hide from them, there's no way to distract

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Speaker 1: yourself from them. So I think it can be a risk.

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Speaker 1: I would always advise people if they've gone through a

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Speaker 1: lot of trauma, start meditation just little and often make

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Speaker 1: sure you're discussing those traumas with somebody with considerable experience,

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Speaker 1: and then look towards retreat as a as a longer

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Speaker 1: term goal, rather than thinking, hey, I know, I go

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Speaker 1: and become a monk or none and dive into retreat

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Speaker 1: for a year. I think that can be potentially sort

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Speaker 1: of difficult, right yeah, And so what was your transition like?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you must have forged relationships with people there

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Speaker 1: that you still have, right absolutely. I mean it's funny

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Speaker 1: in in some of the retreats, obviously they are silent,

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Speaker 1: so it's amazing the relationships you can form in silence.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's still your next door neighbors. It's still

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Speaker 1: kind of in a room next door to them. You

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Speaker 1: still see them every day. You just don't speak to

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Speaker 1: them very much. You know, the best way to neigh

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Speaker 1: it may it may well be there might be a

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Speaker 1: lot of pea that would be just communicate via Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be a lot a lot. Nights are probably

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Speaker 1: for everybody. There's friends there who Yeah, they'll they'll be

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Speaker 1: friends for for life. And definitely one of my teachers

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Speaker 1: as well, he was my retreat master. He was a

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Speaker 1: tibetanman abbot of the Tibetan Monastery, one of the ones

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Speaker 1: that are trained in. In fact, we've remained so close.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, Rich my co founder, said hey, look,

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Speaker 1: you know we we do a yearly retreat for the team.

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Speaker 1: We take them up into the hills of Malibu and

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Speaker 1: do like a day up there. And he said, why

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Speaker 1: don't you invite Lama over? And there's no way he's

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Speaker 1: going to fly fly out tomorrow. He's been very supportive

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Speaker 1: of what we've done, but I don't think he's going

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Speaker 1: to fly. And I said, I'll ask, and he said yes,

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Speaker 1: and he flew out and it was kind of surreal.

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Speaker 1: We're in a vineyard up in and he was at

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Speaker 1: Gory Hills or somewhere, and to see these bright kind

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Speaker 1: of robes and this Tibetan monk with his long, kind

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Speaker 1: of whispy silvery beard sort of sitting there at the

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Speaker 1: front with these vineyards behind. It was amazing. And to

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Speaker 1: see the team and the team to kind of have

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Speaker 1: access to someone like that was amazing. And what was

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Speaker 1: your I bet it was amazing. I mean, there is

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Speaker 1: there is definitely a power in a group getting together

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Speaker 1: for the same goal, which is I think the thing

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Speaker 1: that I always get surprised about. And I don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience with retreats or or meditation other

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Speaker 1: than what we'll talk about in a minute, but I

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Speaker 1: think you expect people to be so evolved that there

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Speaker 1: is no regular stuff you see in day to day life,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, I went to this one conference with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of neuroscientists and a bunch of really esteemed

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Speaker 1: therapists and authors, and there was definitely like a pecking

402
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Speaker 1: order and all of this kind of competitive nature. And

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Speaker 1: I remember saying to my sister, Oh, they're just like

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Speaker 1: everyone else. You know, you hope that people are going

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Speaker 1: to be beyond that. I know you do, but then not,

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Speaker 1: we're not. And it is always extremely disappointing to discover.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting though. You go into um Um, you

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Speaker 1: go into a monestery. I'm not going to say which

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Speaker 1: monastery this was. Don't worry, I won't know it. No

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Speaker 1: one listening, But yes, I remember, we'll get into to

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Speaker 1: a monastery. And I'd come from a very very serious

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Speaker 1: monastery at that point. And I walked in through through

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Speaker 1: the gates and this guy ran out of the door

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Speaker 1: and there were some monks and nuns are sitting around

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Speaker 1: it in their lunch, and he ran out and he went, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Lama's going away no meditation for a week. And to

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Speaker 1: me at that time, I was going, what I thought,

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Speaker 1: that's why you kind of came here. And I was

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Speaker 1: very sort of pious and worthy in my kind of way,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the time, I come from this very

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Speaker 1: serious place, and I was quite you know, judgmental kind

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Speaker 1: of towards that. But actually when I the more time

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Speaker 1: I spent in the monastery, the more I realized that

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Speaker 1: just because you shave your head and you're put in

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Speaker 1: different set of clothes don't make a different person. Monks

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Speaker 1: and nuns are not like bunches of enlightened beings. You

427
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Speaker 1: don't shave your head and become enlightened. You go in

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Speaker 1: there because you realize how unenlightened you are and how

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00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 1: much you need to train your mind. So it's actually more,

430
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 1: it's quite After a while, it becomes I found, I

431
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 1: don't know about in kind of secular retreats and stuff,

432
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: but in a monastic context, actually everyone was really aware

433
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: of their own neurosis, and everyone there was a really

434
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 1: good community spirit, which wasn't too hierarchical, which wasn't too judgmental. Um,

435
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: but stick any group of humans together in a small place,

436
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: stuff's gonna happen. Just does the nature of being human. Yeah, yeah,

437
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: I suppose that's true. I mean, we can't have one

438
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: without the other. You have to have, like, you know,

439
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 1: the good side of humanity and the icky side of humanity.

440
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: And I remember going to one of my teachers and saying,

441
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: we've been doing a lot of retreat and I said,

442
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: you know what, the group retreats good, but I'd love

443
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: to just go and do like a year on my

444
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 1: own or something. And he was like, yeah, said maybe

445
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 1: not just yet, he said, he said, think about it

446
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: this way. He said, you're still very rough, And he

447
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: said it's a bit like putting a stone in a

448
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: washing machine or something, you know, or a tumble a

449
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: stone tumbler, he said. If lots of stones go in,

450
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: he goes, if you go on there on your own,

451
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: not a lot is going to happen, just gonna go

452
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: kind of round and around, he said. Put lots of

453
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: stones in there together, lots of you that are really

454
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: kind of rough, and you're going to kind of knock

455
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 1: against each other, and over time you'll become a bit smoother,

456
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: a little bit softer. And I like the idea because

457
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: it's really easy if you go away on your own

458
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: kind of hide, you can hide from all your own

459
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: nonsense and think that you can just sit there kind of,

460
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, pretty calm, and think that you're enlightened or whatever.

461
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: It's the same idea. It's like me saying, oh, I'm

462
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: gonna go up to Santa Barbara for three days on

463
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: my own and really walk walk the beach up and

464
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: down and really for you know, think about what I'm

465
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: gonna do with the next year of my life. And

466
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: what I ended up doing is going up there and

467
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: watching TV for three days, like there's no one, there's

468
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: no special time with myself. You're just more able to act,

469
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: like you know, to resort or defer to your bad

470
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,959
Speaker 1: habits when you're not being pushed by other people. So

471
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: that is a really valid point. But let's talk about

472
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: the different types of meditation there. So, um so there's

473
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: t M, which is really popular too. A lot of

474
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: my friends do that. I don't know a lot about that,

475
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: just from what I've been told. Well, why don't you

476
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: talk to us about TM and what you're there's Buddhist meditation. Yeah,

477
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not an expert on TM. I grew up

478
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: doing TM, so that was TM is what I learned

479
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 1: when I was ten eleven, I did when I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen,

480
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,959
Speaker 1: and so I have a fairly good sort of familiarity

481
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: with it. They tend to use a mantra, so a

482
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: word or a phrase that you repeat over and over

483
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: and that's your point of focus throughout the twenty minutes

484
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: do twenty minutes in the morning, twenty minutes in the evening,

485
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: And that's kind of the structure for for TM. I

486
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: think the beauty of it is a simplicity. There is

487
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: just just just a work and you just said over

488
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: and over and over again, and that's your focal point.

489
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: I think that's I like that about it. I think

490
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: for some people it can be a little bit even

491
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: if you think about the word sort of transcendental meditation,

492
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: for some people that can be an obstacle or a barrier.

493
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: It needn't be. Sometimes it can feel a bit mystical

494
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: perhaps for some. But that's true of all of these

495
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 1: different types of meditation. Some will resonate with with some

496
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: people and not with others. And that's always my advice

497
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: kind of like it's not there's good ones and there's

498
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: bad ones. Find what works for you, Find what talks

499
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: to you, what resonates with you. Yeah, And so what

500
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: sile of meditation is yours? The mine is is very

501
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: much having spent sort of ten years doing that sort

502
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: of um that training within the Buddhist tradition and in

503
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: those later five years the Tibetan tradition um is Tibetan

504
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: Buddhist practices mostly, and probably the one that I practice

505
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: the most is called sort of resting in awareness. So

506
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: it's where you don't really have a focal point as such,

507
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: You're not necessarily focused on the breath or a visualization.

508
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: You're simply allowing the mind to rest on its own

509
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: in itself. And sometimes it gets distracted, of course, but

510
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: it's not like you're seeing the distraction then coming back

511
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: to a point of focus. You feel kind of stable

512
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: enough in the practice to just allow those things to

513
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: come and go and not get to sort of core

514
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: up in them. Yeah, I think that the the the

515
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: biggest thing that happens is people think they're doing it badly,

516
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: and you take so much judgment about how you're meditating, like, oh,

517
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: I can't get these starts out of my head. That's

518
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: the point. The point is to accept that you have

519
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: all these starts and recognize how easily distracted you can become.

520
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: There is no bad meditation. It's really I can't. I

521
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: can't stress that enough because sometimes, like I've noticed myself

522
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: in the middle of my meditation literally checking my phone

523
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: for text messages, forgetting that I was meditating. Did I

524
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: just said, there's meditation notion In the beginning, I was like,

525
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: I realized how unfocused I was because I had all

526
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 1: of a sudden be like, wait a second, what are

527
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: you doing on your phone? You were just meditating. That's

528
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: how bad it was for me, And so how badly

529
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: I needed it. Also, I know that was one of

530
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: your issues when you started, right yeah, And I kind

531
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: of took her lead on it. She'd be doing and

532
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: she would text me and if I got there in

533
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: the more and she's like, hey, meditating for ten minutes.

534
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: And that was my way of knowing, like, she's going

535
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: to be up there. She needs she needs to focus

536
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: on the meditation, whereas now when she doesn't. Sometimes I'll

537
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: come in and out of her room. She doesn't even

538
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: know I'm there, and I don't know she's meditating. She's

539
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: just sitting outside doing it. So when you can integrate

540
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: it into your life in a way that isn't something

541
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: that you're like, I have to do this right now,

542
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: and it just becomes a habit. It's impactful because now

543
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: I do it. Or sometimes I'll text her like I'm

544
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: outside for ten minutes and it's in the middle of

545
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: the day, I'm gonta meditating, Or I'll just turn my

546
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: phone on do not disturb, and then she'll come down

547
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: like where we're I was like, oh, I's meditating for

548
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: ten minutes. Just like getting in the habit of it

549
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: being just your daily experience, not something you're setting yourself

550
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: up to do. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing,

551
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: is she just And it's takes a little while right

552
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: to get to that point where it has become so

553
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: much part of your daily existence that you'd miss it

554
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: if it if it wasn't there. But it is really

555
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: easy to be hard on yourself in the beginning when

556
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: you start meditating, like how she says she would get distracted.

557
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: I would get more angry by the end of the

558
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: meditation because I'd be listening to your voice doing it.

559
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't make anyone angry and and no,

560
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: and so it's supposed to be very calming and it's

561
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: and it's guided, which is the best part. But by

562
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: the end of like, why can't I just focus on

563
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: what he's saying and let my mind go? And I

564
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: remember thinking I heard someone say one time that it

565
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: should be like a leaf floating down a river, Like

566
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: that's how passing thought should be. While you're meditating, you

567
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: acknowledge it's there and you let it go. I like that,

568
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: and so that's what I would try and remember. But

569
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: in the beginning, you're just You're like that, I can't

570
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: do it. I can't stick with it, and also for

571
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: me specifically, and I know this is how so many

572
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: people feel. It's that instant gratification. You're like, I meditated twice.

573
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: Why don't I feel better? You know? Why are and

574
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: I'm more focused? It's not working. I remember walking into

575
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: my psychiatrist, Dan Segull, I know, you know, went into

576
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: his office and I was like, listen, I meditate. He goes,

577
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: have you been trying to meditate? Because I was still,

578
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, on this kind of fast cycle of thoughts

579
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: and everything was obsessive and I couldn't just sit still,

580
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: you know. He said, had did you try to meditate

581
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: this morning? I said, yeah, and I think it made

582
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: me in my day words. I really had that argument

583
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: because I was so frustrated with the inability to connect

584
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: with it right away, and for most people they don't

585
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: have I know, I surely did not have the patience

586
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: to understand that I had to commit to a certain

587
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: amount of time, which in my instance was three months.

588
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: And I started with your three minutes, which was obviously

589
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: completely doable for anybody to do three minutes a day,

590
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: and then by the time you get to day ten,

591
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: you do want to bump it up to five minutes

592
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: or ten minutes, and I think time is one aspect

593
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: of it. I do think the other aspect is there

594
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: is not only the sense of kind of what are

595
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: we going to get out of it, but there's also

596
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: a sense of our approach to it. I feel like

597
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: it sometimes it sounds like a broken record, but hopefully

598
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: not too many of your of your community have heard

599
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 1: me speak before. But um, if you want to hear

600
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: him sound like a broken record, you could just download

601
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: the app and just listen to all the different meditation courses.

602
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: There's a course for everybody. You can take a course

603
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: on eating, you could take a course on sleeping. There's

604
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: different levels of courses there is. It's true, but I

605
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: think our approach to it is that we should feel calm,

606
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: we should feel relaxed, we should feel more focused. There

607
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: is no should here. Meditation was never designed for those things.

608
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: Meditation was designed to see our mind more clearly, to

609
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: understand our mind more clearly, so that we could benefit

610
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: ourselves and we could benefit other people. And that's it total.

611
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: There's no more to it than that. Relaxation is a

612
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: side effect. It's an amazing side effect. Focus is a

613
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: side effect. It's not the purpose of meditation. If we

614
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: sit down and we think, right, I'm going to try

615
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: and make myself relaxed, We're already screwed. It's over. If

616
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: we sit down and think I'm going to try and

617
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: make myself focused, we're already thinking about the process of focus,

618
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: and we're projecting an idea onto the meditation rather than

619
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: simply watching the mind. So if at the beginning of

620
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: every meditation you can let go and this is a

621
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: big task, and this in a way is the practice

622
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: of meditation, learning to let go of these things. You

623
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: can sit down and go, Okay, I'm gonna let go

624
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: of every idea that I ever thought meditation was about,

625
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna sit doesn't matter what my mind does.

626
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm just going to learn to watch my mind. That is,

627
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: I would say, the practice of meditation, and it purist

628
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: kind of form. And when we do that on a

629
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: regular basis, then all those other things like relaxation and

630
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: like focus and everything else they come about kind of naturally.

631
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: We don't even have to think about trying to make

632
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: them happen. They just happen. But yeah, and and the

633
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: noise quiets down in a natural way too. Like, I

634
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: definitely noticed, because there's a there's a period and I've

635
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: spoken to Down about this, I think, and you on

636
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: this podcast about there's a period where you're really trying

637
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: to be so self aware that you become self absorbed

638
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: in that process because you're constantly thinking about your own

639
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: behavior and in my case, my own reactivity and my

640
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, react, give myself the space respond where I'm

641
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: constantly assessing my own behavior that I'm running around all

642
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: day just like obsessed with myself and so self absorbed

643
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: that I'm like, oh my god, it's such a pain.

644
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: And they asked to be a mindful person. Yeah, and

645
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: that's because we tend to think that thoughts associated with

646
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: meditation or mindfulness or with our behavior are somehow more

647
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: important and we should take those seriously and we should

648
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: be attached to those, whereas thoughts about what a conversation

649
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: we had yesterday or something that we're planning to do tomorrow,

650
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: those aren't important. So most of us, over time, we

651
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: find it really easy to let go of the planning

652
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: kind of bit and the reflection bit, but we tend

653
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: to take really seriously the thought, oh I wonder if

654
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: that means, oh I wonder if I'm meditating, right, oh,

655
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: do that made me a good person? And rather than

656
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: just treating those as thoughts and going oh yeah, thinking

657
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: and letting it go, instead we dive into it, We

658
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: make it part of the narrative, and we get caught

659
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: up in a new storyline. So now we're no longer

660
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: the storyline is no longer what am I doing at

661
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 1: work tomorrow? It's like, am I a good person? Am

662
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: I meditating? Well? Am I being mindful? And we're then

663
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: just thinking about that stuff. It's still noise in the mind.

664
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: There is noise, but you do eventually come to them.

665
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: At least I have come to a much more natural

666
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: place of where you started. I started meditating from my

667
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: brain and my mind to quiet, and you very naturally

668
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: make the progression to move outward in a loving kindness

669
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: way to the people in your life that are in trouble.

670
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: And then you have, of course, where you're constantly meditating

671
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: for people that you kind of you know are ambivalent

672
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: towards um, you know that you don't have the greatest

673
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: feelings for. And I was just on a family vacation

674
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: doing this every morning, going okay, I'm meditating on this

675
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: person I'm picturing them and the visualizations also for me,

676
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: are really helpful. Do you do that? Do you do visualizations?

677
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: Because that's I think what has been the difference for

678
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: me sticking with meditation, which again I'm not someone who's

679
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: been doing it every day but regularly, like you do

680
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: it every day, Chelsea, I would like to get to

681
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: that point, but I'm still using it. It's like I

682
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: really rely on it as like I'm stressed right now.

683
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: Like we were in the car the day and my

684
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: boyfriend's like, why don't you do headspace because I was

685
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: wound so tight and he could tell and he's like,

686
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: I think you just need a few minutes. And I

687
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: did it and it really does help. You can still

688
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: rely on it for that, but it becoming part of

689
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: your daily routine is obviously the goal. What do you

690
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: think the biggest misconception about mindfulness and meditation that people

691
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: have is there are a lot, but I would say

692
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: the biggest is that is designed to stop you thinking,

693
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: and that's why most people struggle with it, and that's

694
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: why most people give it up because they don't want

695
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: to because they think that if they meditate, their thoughts

696
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: will stop and they sit down to meditate, and the

697
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: thoughts keep going, and they're like, I'm therefore I'm no

698
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: good at this, or therefore meditation doesn't work. Meditation isn't

699
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: designed to stop the thoughts, so no wonder it's confusing, right,

700
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: I would say that is the big and also even

701
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: it prevents people even from trying meditation because they think, oh,

702
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: my mind so busy that I could never meditate. It's fine,

703
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: you can meditate with a busy mind. You can meditate

704
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: with the quale, but more of a reason to meditate

705
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: your mind. I mean that is the number one excuse

706
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: that everybody says, oh, I can't whenever I say to anybody,

707
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: because when I start, you know, try a hard on

708
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: for something, and I overcorrect. So I've been like, you know,

709
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: banging this drum about therapy and meditation and awakening for

710
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: the last six months, and I'll probably go another six

711
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: months and then I'll become a monk. Watch do they accept? Yeah,

712
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: you could write me based on your knowledge of me.

713
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: I think that that's a slam dunk. You would like

714
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: that if I went away to become a monk. And

715
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: as far as but let's talk a little bit about

716
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: the science to meditation and behind meditation about you know,

717
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: I know I meditated every night before I go to

718
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: sleep too, do your sleep meditation. And I also have

719
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: gotten looks when people, you know, when I'm in the circles,

720
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: when when somebody asked me what my practices and I say,

721
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm new to meditation. I do you know, twenty minutes

722
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: a day on a guided app. I've definitely gotten the

723
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: eye roll from several people that I'm doing guided meditation,

724
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: which I want to say, hey, just you know, that

725
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: is so not the attitude that I'm joining this troop

726
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: of people for. Well, you know, in those situations, I

727
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: think it's always really interest you can kind of let

728
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: that person have their moment of judgment, like that's their

729
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: own practice. If they're still working through that kind of

730
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: that judgment mental attitude, just let them kind of do that,

731
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: like you have your thing and enjoy that thing and

732
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: let them have and just smile and to thank you,

733
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: say thanks very much, thank you, because I'm sure you've

734
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: gotten that from people in your circle about being commercialized

735
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: or selling out or whatever their judgment of you is

736
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: for for creating an app. I mean rewind. So we

737
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: launched the app eight years ago and rewind eight years.

738
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we've got so many emails, letters from angry

739
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: Buddhists kind of, you know, really upset about the fact

740
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: that one we're putting on an app, that we were

741
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: charging for it, and it took a little while to

742
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: kind of really get comfortable with what we were trying

743
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: to do. We don't get that anymore. I think it

744
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: has changed. I think people have just accepted. I remember

745
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: kind of researchers and professors writing to us saying it's ridiculous,

746
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: nothing can happen in ten minutes, And now most studies

747
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: actually are done around sort of ten fifteen minutes, and

748
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: there's a widespread acceptance that it's not about the quantity,

749
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: it's about the frequency, the dosage, you know. So, um, yeah,

750
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: we've had a ton of that in the past, and

751
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: that was for me, that was a practice in itself

752
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: kind of not to be put off by that and

753
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: to think, Okay, actually, this is something really kind of valuable,

754
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 1: and it's away of getting out to more people and

755
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: and the science back to the science, what is some

756
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: of the most surprising data that you've learned? So I

757
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: think the I mean the stuff around europlasticity, So the

758
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: way in which our brain can actually change shape, that

759
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: was the biggest surprise for me. So one of the

760
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: monastery where I ordained at in India, um I didn't

761
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: know at the time, but some of the monks and

762
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: nuns from there were being flown to America and going

763
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: through FM Mara machines and they were looking at the

764
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: brains to see what was different in the brains of

765
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: monks and nuns and you know, and the rest of us.

766
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: And they found that so through the process of meditation,

767
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: through the practice of mindfulness, the brain actually changes shape.

768
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 1: So the areas, the parts of the brain, the cortex

769
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: responsible for the focus, self restraint, for the feeling of happiness,

770
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: well being, that those areas receive more blood flow and

771
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: as a result, they get thicker and stronger, in just

772
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: the same way as when we go to the gym

773
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: and train and muscle it gets thicker and stronger. So

774
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: I never knew, I mean, they never knew that before

775
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: they started doing that research. I certainly never knew that

776
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: our brain had the capacity to change in that way.

777
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: I always thought of meditation as I don't know, as

778
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: the mind. You know, it's kind of intangible, but I

779
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: think the research has shown actually is a very tangible

780
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: kind of impact not only on our brain, but also

781
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: on the flow of harmful chemicals and hormones in our body.

782
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: Can really kind of help regulate those things. Is there

783
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: at a time of day that's better than any other

784
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: time of day? I think everyone is different. Are you

785
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: do you? When do you do yours? I do mind

786
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning, but sometimes if I also

787
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: like to get stand and meditate. I mean that for

788
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: me in the beginning, it was very helpful to calm

789
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: me down because I had trouble sitting still. And so

790
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: some times in the afternoon, if I'm stoned and I'm home,

791
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: I'll go out and do twenty minutes. Sometimes I do

792
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: it without the app. Now I just go sit. Now

793
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: that you've taught me all these tools, now I understand that,

794
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: and you have all those great little tools on it

795
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: to show you what you should be thinking about when

796
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: you're doing a body scan or what you're doing with

797
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: the visualization. But I do want to say with regard

798
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: to attention and focus, I was having trouble, like focusing

799
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: enough to get through a book. I was writing a book,

800
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: but I hadn't read a book in like three months

801
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: because I was writing one and I was really deep

802
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: into it. And once I was done with my book,

803
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: I was having trouble focusing. And I always love to read.

804
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: And because of the meditation, now my attention span is

805
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: completely different. I don't days off in the middle of

806
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: conversations and start thinking about food when I'm talking to people.

807
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: Now I'm actually engaged and I pay attention. And I

808
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: used to have like a very very short attention span,

809
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: and I was creating that bad habit and getting more

810
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: cute at my lack of attention, and so it was

811
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: a great reversal of that. Yeah, that's the best. I

812
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: think often the benefits, you know, people think about the

813
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: benefits actually within the meditation itself, you know, kind of

814
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: how am I going to feel at the end of

815
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: the ten minutes. For me, I'm always that much happier

816
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: when people talk about the benefits in the rest of

817
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: their life, because I think that's actually where the magic happens.

818
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: It's it's being able to sit with another person and

819
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: have a conversation and be present for that other person,

820
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, or being on the freeway here in l

821
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: A and something kind of crazy happening and not freaking out,

822
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: And I feel like those are the moments actually that

823
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: make a difference in the world and where the ripples

824
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: the benefits of meditation are really kind of felt rather

825
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: than necessarily just that time. But coming back to your

826
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: question best time of day, I think morning is the

827
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: best time of day. That doesn't mean it's the only

828
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: time of day. Any time of day is a good

829
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: time of day. But if we do it in the morning,

830
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: I think when it gets done and to you set

831
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: yourself up in a way where you're more likely to

832
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: be more mindful throughout the day. So it's kind of

833
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: like setting an intention for the day right exactly whereas

834
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: you're saying that you're using it as kind of a

835
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: recovery or band aids, so to speak. Like if you

836
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: start to commit yourself to doing it each morning, then

837
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: you probably won't have to do any sort of clean

838
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: up as often as you do. You know. Yeah, well

839
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: I stopped doing it at night for that reason that

840
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: after the impact of the day sitting there and doing it,

841
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: I didn't feel the benefits other than how you do

842
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: the sleep sessions. I do think I slept maybe more

843
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: peaceful but in terms of how my day went, I

844
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: can totally see why morning would be most impactful. Yeah,

845
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: what are your technology rules personally, because I know there's

846
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's a big topic of conversation because technology

847
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: is the reason for our lack of attention, but yet

848
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: it gives us so many great tools. Also, it's a

849
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: big part. I will just say, kind of meditation has

850
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: been around for two and a half thousand years or so.

851
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: They didn't have any technology back then in the way

852
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: that we have it now, and people still struggled with

853
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: their attention. Is really clear when you go back through

854
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: the stuff. Don't know anyone to kind of feel like

855
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: it's impulse sable in this and say, like, I think

856
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: it just is part of being human. I think the

857
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: technology and the digital chatter is amplified the noise in

858
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: our mind and and I think it's really important to

859
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: set up our own boundaries. So, for example, if I

860
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: get a new phone or laptop or anything like that,

861
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: the first thing I do is take everything off it

862
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: that I can. So with a new phone, I take

863
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: off any sounds, I take off notifications. Why don't you

864
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: just get a rotary phone? I mark around with that

865
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: I've tried. It's hard to get a signal outlet exactly,

866
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: and some people help you out, but not everywhere. But

867
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: I genuinely I clear up the home screen so I

868
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: have the minimum number. I have only the things that

869
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: I consider essential on my home screen. Anything social media, email,

870
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: everything else is pushed off to another page and then

871
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: you have to make it. Sounds like small things, but

872
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: you then have to make the conscious intention to go

873
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: to it rather than its simply being there. So, in

874
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: that moment want of boredom, where typically you might just

875
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: pick up your phone and press a button, all of

876
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: a sudden, there's like one more step and it gives

877
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: you another opportunity to think, is that going to make

878
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: me feel good? I really want to do that. So

879
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: just remembering kind of the they don't own us. Sometimes

880
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: think we feel overwhelmed by the technology. Phones don't own us.

881
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: They can't tell us what to do. They just sit

882
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: there on the table. So it's up to us to

883
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: kind of define their relationship and to set it up

884
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: in a way that works for us and makes us

885
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: feel happy. Yeah, it is definitely up to like each

886
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: one of us to set our own kind of parameters.

887
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: Because even I was mindlessly you know, you find yourself

888
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: mindlessly scrolling down your phone or you know, in my instance,

889
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram looking at things I don't care about in

890
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: the middle of my day, just because I have five

891
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: minutes to kill and much rather be reading a book,

892
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: and just by moving that into my social media pocket, right,

893
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: I can't. I have to think to go. There makes

894
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: a huge difference. I don't want to be on Instagram

895
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: two hours a day, you know, or in some cases

896
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: twenty seven hours a week. I mean, there are people

897
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: to do that mindless and it's mind numbing and then

898
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: say they don't have time for meditation. Yes, right, they

899
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: don't because they have to get up early and scroll

900
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: through Instagram exactly. Well, I think the issue is that

901
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: meditation at that point is not a habit for them,

902
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: whereas you so absent mindedly go like there are times

903
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: we're all click my email open, even I have no

904
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: reason to check it, just because it's a habit that

905
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: you get into for doing it. But it's that same

906
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: thing with meditation that until you actively are doing it

907
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: and it just becomes a habit, it's going to seem

908
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: like a process. Yeah, okay, well this sounds like a

909
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: good time to take a break. I want to know

910
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: how long it took you to record all of those

911
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: sessions because they're endless, there's a lot, and are there

912
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: tricks to I mean, how do you you have to

913
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: record every single one? It seems like because for the

914
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: different time periods. Yeah, in real time, So I think

915
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: we were to We've done about two thousand hours total

916
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: things about currently on the app. The first one was

917
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: the Big Ones A version one, so it's just back

918
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: in we didn't really kind of know how to do

919
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: it and apps when you and Rich just said to

920
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: me that it would be great if you could try

921
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: and recreate what you used to do in the clinic

922
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: where you see people kind of like one to one

923
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: and it was a course and he said maybe kind

924
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: of over a year. So we came up with a

925
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: three sixty five day course and I just went into

926
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: the studio with an incredibly patient and understanding sound engineer

927
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: and we just recorded three sixty five twenty minute long

928
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: meditations um and took. It was a progressive course over

929
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: over a year. But it's taken a long time. It's

930
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: taken a long time. And how how long did it

931
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: take before the app really took off in financial terms

932
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: for you guys. So we launched the first app in

933
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: twelve I'd say fourteen was a turning point. So we

934
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: just moved to America and Apple did a huge promotion

935
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: around us and all of a sudden, I mean at

936
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: the time, I think we had about ten people in

937
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: the team in the in England, maybe about twenty in

938
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: the US, and within a year or eighteen months of

939
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: that in the team was like a hundred and fifty

940
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: and things were just absolutely kind of flying it. There

941
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: was a big, a big change. Yeah. So what are

942
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: some of the feedback that you've heard that is your

943
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: major motivating factor? I mean, what are is a story

944
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: that you've heard that sticks out for you from a user? Yeah?

945
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: There are, I mean there was so many different ones

946
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: and all for different reasons. The ones that tend to

947
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: really kind of stick with me, they tend to be

948
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: they're not sad, but they're deeply kind of moving people,

949
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: like not knowing kind of going through you know, a

950
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: really difficult process. Maybe in hospital, remember a husband saying

951
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: he was going through his wife was dying and they

952
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, and they did headspace and

953
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: they did it together and like that was her final

954
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: kind of minutes for me when I never imagined ever

955
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: that someone would use the app in in that way.

956
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: So I still find those things. They yeah, they move me. Yeah. Well,

957
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: it's like if you can help one person, they say,

958
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: and with something like this, you're helping millions of people.

959
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: So it must be such a great feeling. It must

960
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: be just so fulfilling. It is. I don't it's a

961
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: funny thing. Well, one, it's a big team effort, right,

962
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's three people kind of that that

963
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: make it make it happen. But also I don't think

964
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: about it. It would be I don't think I could

965
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: do my work and think about it in that way.

966
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: I don't ever sit down and think there's this many

967
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: kind of people listening to it. I just sit down

968
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: and I imagine I'm chatting with a friend and hopefully

969
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: kind of as as the person on the other end

970
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: of that kind of That's how it feels. It's like

971
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: it's just it's just us, and it's not that I'm

972
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: a teacher with some kind of amazing experience. We're just

973
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: friends and I have done a little bit of training,

974
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: I have a little bit more experience, and I can

975
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: kind of help maybe just you know, offer a little

976
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: bit of extra sort of support and guidance. That's that's

977
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: my I still feel like I'm learning, like I'm a student,

978
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: and so it's an opportunity for me to practice at

979
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, it's nice for people to have

980
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: humility like you, especially straight white men. Everybody needs a

981
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: good humility. So what's your meditation practice like now? So

982
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: it's um. I'll describe it as since having young children,

983
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: as becoming a lot more flexible. So when I came

984
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: to l A, I was still living a bit, a

985
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: bit like a monkey. I was here with my wife,

986
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: but I'd get up at four, I'd do my meditation

987
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: until five, and then I go surfing and then I

988
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: go to the office and everything else. And then we

989
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: had young kids, and now I do it when I can.

990
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: So some mornings they sleep late and I get to

991
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: do my meditation in the morning. Sometimes I have to

992
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: do it a lunchtime. I'm lucky I have a space

993
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: at the office where where I can do it. To

994
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: meditate with your children, I've done it a little bit

995
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: with Harley. So the kids are five and two. The

996
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: two year old is definitely kind of not quite that

997
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: he's likely to be the he'll take to it more naturally.

998
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: I think the older one is. I mean, he's got

999
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of energy. One night I

1000
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: did decide he wouldn't go to sleep, it was so late,

1001
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: and my wife said, he just just trying to app

1002
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: with him, you know, and I'm like, well, I could

1003
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: just talk him through it, and she said he would

1004
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: like he would like the fact that it's on. It's

1005
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: on the phone, you know. So I put it on

1006
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: and um, and he looked at me. He said, but

1007
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: that's you, daddy, And I said yeah, and he said,

1008
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: can can I listen to Pepper Pig instead? So, I

1009
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: mean he has at this stage he has no interest

1010
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: kind of in listening to me. I think probably now

1011
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: we have a we have a female voice. A friend

1012
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: of mine has recorded all of the or is in

1013
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: the process of recording everything, and what kind of accent

1014
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: as she has because she has a British act okay,

1015
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: very well spoken, very well spoken, and so I'm hoping

1016
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: that he might that he might listen to listen to

1017
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: evens see see how that goes. Because people are very

1018
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: noise sensitive. Yeah, you know, if you don't like somebody's accent,

1019
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: or if you don't like the way somebody you know,

1020
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: I think for me, I don't like when everything's too precious,

1021
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: you know that kind of that's the whole judgment I

1022
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: had towards that, like crunchy granola. You you know, you

1023
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: think that it's very unrelatable to me. I like people like,

1024
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: you know, like a cynical bitches who meditate. I want

1025
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: to know what they're doing because that's how I feel,

1026
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: so you enjoy No, I think. I think it's just

1027
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: it's just showing up and being real, right, I have

1028
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: in all of those those different places that I trained

1029
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: where people spoke like this and they were very like

1030
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: that is in no way real. That is not how

1031
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 1: they were before they turned up to that place. There's

1032
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 1: no way there's people walking around like that that's real.

1033
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: That when I met sort of Tibetan masters who'd been

1034
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: meditating for thirty odd years, they weren't talking like that.

1035
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: They were they were quite boisterous. They were fun, they

1036
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: were passionate, they were laughing, they were crying, they were

1037
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: like real human beings. And for me that it kind

1038
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: of emphasized the fact that it's not about trying to

1039
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 1: be a particular kind of person. It's just showing up,

1040
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: being real, being yourself, and that's okay. Yeah. I think

1041
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: there's also a lot of self consciousness that comes with it,

1042
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, I know that I felt. It's you know,

1043
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: if you're if you're not comfortable sitting somewhere with your

1044
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: eyes closed, it's a level of you know, self consciousness

1045
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: and a level of immaturity, and you you know, you

1046
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 1: have to be open to to to that experience, to

1047
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: being kind of vulnerable in a way like okay, I

1048
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: need this. Saying that you need meditation is already kind

1049
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 1: of being vulnerable and saying yes, I could be doing

1050
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: this life thing a little bit better and a little

1051
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: bit in a more calm way. What are your thoughts

1052
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: about having a cultural shift right now, like a shift

1053
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: in consciousness. Do you believe that that's happening right now?

1054
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: I want to believe. I want to believe it. I'm not.

1055
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm not a big believer in the whole kind of

1056
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: like Age of Ceris whatever, like you know, A R.

1057
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: Depok Choper, any of those people. I've heard of them.

1058
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I haven't I haven't read them.

1059
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I tend to sort of as I say, I've I've

1060
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: learned from my Tibetan teachers, and they tend to be

1061
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: my my point of reference. But obviously those those guys

1062
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: have been hugely impactful. In the West especially, I think

1063
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: there is an increasing vulnerability. I think people are more

1064
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: willing to talk about the mind and the challenges of

1065
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: the mind, and hopefully people are more willing to sort

1066
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: of come out of the meditation closet and say, yeah,

1067
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: like you know, I do this. But looking around the

1068
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: world right now, I don't see that we're moving to

1069
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: a point of kind of a radical transformation in consciousness

1070
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: where everybody is that much more empathetic and kind and

1071
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: compassionate and aware. Maybe it's happening in places that I'm

1072
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: not looking, but when I look around the world, I

1073
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: don't see that happening. I actually think there is just

1074
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: a constant kind of shift in in humanity that we're

1075
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: always kind of changing, We're always evolving. We can't necessarily

1076
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: change everything around us in the world, but we can

1077
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: start with ourselves, and if we can make a difference

1078
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: in our own mind, then hopefully we can make a

1079
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: difference to the people around us who we interact with

1080
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: in the world and in time that can kind of

1081
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: create change. And it's also it's also been my experience

1082
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: where it's nice start to always be kind of advertising

1083
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: like what you're doing, rather than rather letting people see

1084
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: that your behavior is different and that you're calmer, and

1085
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: then people coming to you going what's going on? What

1086
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,959
Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing? Oh, I'm meditating. No way,

1087
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: you're meditating. It's like, yeah, I'm meditating and it's working.

1088
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: It's like a huge difference. So it's nice because I

1089
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: always have that disease where I want to tell everybody

1090
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: about what I just found out about, you know, without

1091
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: sitting with it and finding out whether it's reliable or

1092
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, if it's a trend or a fad or

1093
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: what have you. And I think, I think that's a

1094
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: great thing to have, right, like passion and wanting to

1095
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: share stuff. But what I what I love and what's

1096
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: always kind of comforted me with meditation is that no

1097
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: matter how popular it is right now or it becomes

1098
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: right now, you can never really talk about it as

1099
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 1: a fad. I mean, it's two and a half thousand

1100
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: years old, it's like the longest fat ever. If it

1101
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: is a fad, I just I just think it is slowly.

1102
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: I think that noise that we talked about, that amplification

1103
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: of noise from technology has created the conditions for more

1104
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: and more people to look for peace of mind, and

1105
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: meditation is just such a good place to start when

1106
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: you're looking for peace of mind. So as your objective

1107
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: with the company stayed the same from the inception to now,

1108
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: is it changing? I think it's it's stayed pretty consistent.

1109
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: You know, we the vision was to improve the health

1110
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: and happiness of the world. Um, it's a mission accomplished.

1111
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: There you go. I mean, you could just march off

1112
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 1: into the sunset. Why don't you just go? Some days

1113
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: I'd love to. Some days i'd love to. I think, look,

1114
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: the world is the world is big. We haven't reached

1115
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: that many people kind of relative to to the size

1116
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: the size of the world. But I do think you

1117
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: can look at it in different ways. When when we

1118
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: get a message in from I don't a mom who's

1119
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,439
Speaker 1: at home on their own really struggling to look after

1120
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: dad are like looking after the kids and stuff, And

1121
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: they say what a difference it's made in their life.

1122
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: To me, that's improving the health. Doesn't mean it's not

1123
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: just like the numbers of people. It's like, can we

1124
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: make a difference in a number of people's lives? That

1125
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: was our vision then it still is. And what advice

1126
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: do you have for people who are new to meditation,

1127
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: who have tried it they don't feel like it's working?

1128
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: You know? Are the things that excuses that we can

1129
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: come up with. So I would say, first, look at

1130
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: look at what your intention is. Why are you sitting

1131
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: to meditate? The more clarity we have around the intention,

1132
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: the more likely we are to do it. Find a time.

1133
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what time of day is. Don't worry

1134
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: about the morning thing. Just find a time in the

1135
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: day and commit to three minutes in the same way

1136
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: that you did just see, the most important thing is

1137
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: just getting started. It's not about how long you do

1138
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: it for. It's just about getting started. Create that regular habit,

1139
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: and after a while you will find that you naturally

1140
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: kind of want to do a bit more and probably

1141
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: you have room in your in your day to do

1142
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more. And then these three things around

1143
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: your intention and your approach. So number one, it's not

1144
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 1: about stopping thoughts. It's really not about stopping thoughts. I'm

1145
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: telling you this right now. I know that you're still

1146
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: going to go away and probably think at some stage

1147
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: it's about stopping thoughts and get frustrated that the thoughts

1148
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: won't stop. It's about seeing the mind more clearly, stepping

1149
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: back from thoughts and being able to witness them. So

1150
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: that's number one. Number two, no amount of effort will

1151
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: bring you relaxation, in the same way that when you

1152
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: try and go to sleep at night, you can't force

1153
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: yourself to go to sleep. In fact, when you do

1154
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: it gets really frustrating and you move away from sleep.

1155
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: You can't force your way to relaxation either. So as

1156
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: much as possible, take your foot off the gas. It

1157
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: is the only three minutes, five minutes, ten minutes in

1158
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: the day when you have nothing to do and nowhere

1159
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: to go, no one judging you or anything else, so

1160
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: no effort required. And then the last one. If you've

1161
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: seen you guys might have seen that the blue sky

1162
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: animation on the on the apple, and if you have

1163
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,439
Speaker 1: or not, but just this idea that we always tend

1164
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: to be looking for something else, somewhere else, and the

1165
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: analogy that was given to me by my teachers, was

1166
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: was the blue sky like the mind is like the

1167
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: blue sky. The clouds are just the thoughts. Some days

1168
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: it is really cloudy and we forget about the blue sky.

1169
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: But if you get in a plane and you go

1170
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: through the clouds, the blue sky is still there. The

1171
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: truth is, the blue sky is always with us. The calm,

1172
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,479
Speaker 1: the clarity, the empathy that we look for in our life,

1173
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: that is with us. It has always been with us,

1174
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: it always will be with us. The trick is to

1175
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: not forget that on those very cloudy days and when

1176
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: we sit to meditate, Rather than trying to push all

1177
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: the clouds away, instead to just wait for the weather

1178
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: to change, wait for the clouds to kind of start

1179
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: to dissipate, and in time you'll naturally experience more of

1180
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: that blue. Yes. And something that you mentioned also on

1181
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: headspace is everything is temporary. All your thoughts are ephemeral.

1182
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: So you know when you're feeling very happy, that doesn't

1183
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: last forever. When you're feeling really down, that also doesn't

1184
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: last forever. And to know that these thoughts are moving

1185
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: throughout your day and it's you're not in charge of

1186
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: holding onto any of them that they're just shifting through you,

1187
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: and to accept it and not resist the you know,

1188
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: negative thoughts or self doubt. It's okay, they come and

1189
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: then they'll go yeah, exactly that. And I think we

1190
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: tend to get caught in these the storylines in our mind.

1191
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: We get stuck in a groove and it's hard to

1192
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: imagine that will lever change. But as soon as we

1193
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: apply that awareness to it, it disappears. Okay, I think

1194
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: we should end on a three minute meditation. We can

1195
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: do meditation, We do that, of course we can. Let's

1196
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: do just to introduce the people who haven't tried headspace

1197
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: yet happy too. And then I'm going to come up

1198
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: with my own meditation app next week. I'm just going

1199
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: to announce this that heads up, Okay, lead us and Andy.

1200
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: All right, So wherever you are right now, it doesn't

1201
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: matter how you how are you sitting, Just find the

1202
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: place it's comfortable. Doesn't matter if you have your feet

1203
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: are on the floor, I mean that's preferable, or can sit.

1204
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: You can sit across legged, you can. I don't recommend

1205
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: cross legged unless you've grown up doing that, unless you

1206
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: do a lot of yoga or something like that. Otherwise

1207
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: it just becomes you know, just gets in the way

1208
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: a little bit for a lot of people. But if

1209
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: you're really comfortable doing it, then absolutely sit across, take

1210
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: it on the floor and sit on a chair. If

1211
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: you're sitting on a chair, ideally with your arms and

1212
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: your legs on crossed. And if you're lying down, I'd

1213
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: suggest just sort of bent, lying down on your back

1214
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: and just bending your knees to take the pressure off

1215
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: your lawer back. And then the first thing I'd like

1216
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: you to do before you do anything else is just

1217
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: too set a very soft focus with the eyes, so

1218
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: you're looking directly ahead, but you're not focused on one

1219
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: particular point. You're just taking in the entire space around

1220
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: you and just maintaining that very soft focus. Just taking

1221
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: two or three big deep breaths, reading in through the

1222
00:58:54,280 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: nose and out through the mouth, so as you breathe.

1223
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: As you breathe in, notice how the lungs expand as

1224
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: the body fills were there. And as you breathe out

1225
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: through the mouth, just notice how the muscles and the

1226
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: body soften. And with the next outbreath, just closing the

1227
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: eyes and just feeling the weight of the body pressed

1228
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: down into the chair, the floor, the bed, wherever you are,

1229
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: and just taking a moment to enjoy that feeling. Having paused,

1230
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: having stopped, nothing to do, nowhere to go, So just

1231
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: allow thoughts to come and go, and don't worry what

1232
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: the mind's doing. Just going to focus on the body

1233
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: for a moment. Notice how the body feels, whether there's

1234
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: a sense of heaviness or lightness in the body right now,

1235
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: whether there's a sense of stillness or restlessness. And as

1236
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: you become more aware of the body, just starting to

1237
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: notice the breath as well. Notice how the breath while

1238
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: the body is breathing. You don't have to breathe in

1239
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: any special way, just noticing where in the body you

1240
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: feel that movement of breath. So for some people it's

1241
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: a stomach, some people the chest. If you can't feel

1242
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: that movement, just gently placing your hand on the stomach,

1243
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: m and we're just going to stay with that movement, breath,

1244
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: a rising and falling sensation, just for another thirty seconds.

1245
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: If any time a thought passes by, just seeing it,

1246
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: letting it go, and coming back to the breath again. Remember,

1247
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: nothing to do, no effort required, seeing the thought, letting

1248
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: it go and coming back to the breath om and

1249
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: then just coming back to that feeling of weight once again,

1250
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: the weight of the body gainst the chair, the floor,

1251
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: the bed, back to that feeling perhaps of the feet

1252
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: on the floor or the hands and the arms, the

1253
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: weight and resting on the body or by your side.

1254
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: And then in your own time, it's very gently open

1255
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: the eyes again. Okay, good times. Thank you so much

1256
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,439
Speaker 1: for coming in and talking to us. It was really

1257
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: nice to me. You thanks for having me. Yeah. Now

1258
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: I can put a name to the voice. Andy, why

1259
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: don't you say your last name so I don't suck

1260
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: it up, Andy Petticum. There you go. Thank you, Brandon,

1261
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Chelsea, Thank you Andy, Thanks Brandon, thank you. Okay, Brandon,

1262
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: how did you like talking to Andy Baca? I liked

1263
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: him to love this great and he's normal. He's not

1264
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: like a you know what's the words, He's not like

1265
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: over in Lighten. And he's cute, he's cured, he's cured,

1266
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: he's married. Everybody, So don't get your panties in a twist. Okay.

1267
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: So we have some announcements to make. I'm coming in

1268
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: October to Australia, and then I'm coming to Brisbane, Sydney

1269
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: and Melbourne and then Auckland and those are up and announced,

1270
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: so you can buy your tickets for that. And I

1271
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: am about to announce a whole round of new cities

1272
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: in America and Canada. So I am going to announce

1273
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: in the next couple of days on my Instagram and

1274
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: social media plat forms dates and tickets available for places

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Speaker 1: like Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Grand Rapids, Michigan, Vancouver, Toronto,

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City is a place I've

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Speaker 1: never been to, and uh Salt Lake City and Kansas City.

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Speaker 1: So those announcements are coming soon. So if you're looking

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01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: to catch my stand up tour, life will be the

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01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: Death of me Um, pay attention to my social media

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01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: channels and I will make that announcement in the next

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Speaker 1: couple of days. They're just finalizing some of the routing.

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Speaker 1: I post a lot of articles on accountable page, so

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01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: if you're looking for articles that are reliable and truthful

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01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: and there are issues you care about, you can go

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01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: to Chelsea Handler's action center. It's at accountable dot us.

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Speaker 1: You always want to follow Emily's list if you're interested

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01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: in getting progressive females elected, which are which we all

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Speaker 1: are right. Yes, elect more women. We need more women.

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Speaker 1: Men have fucked us up. Now we've all sucked us up.

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Speaker 1: We just need more women. We need this um. We

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Speaker 1: need our represent endives and our government officials to reflect

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Speaker 1: what the actual country looks like, not old white guys. Okay, anyway,

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Speaker 1: we'll see you next week. Life will be the Death

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Speaker 1: of Me as a production of I heart Radio. For

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01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

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01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: favorite shows.