1
00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:15,965
Speaker 1: School of Humans. On June fourteenth, two thousand, there was

2
00:00:16,005 --> 00:00:19,325
Speaker 1: a huge storm brewing in northeast Arkansas. It had been

3
00:00:19,405 --> 00:00:22,605
Speaker 1: raining heavily all day, and according to local weather data,

4
00:00:22,805 --> 00:00:27,165
Speaker 1: tornadoes had hit. Over one hundred trees were downed, power

5
00:00:27,245 --> 00:00:31,085
Speaker 1: lines were down, and homes were destroyed. Twenty year old

6
00:00:31,165 --> 00:00:34,125
Speaker 1: Amanda Tussing, who went by Mandy, was hanging out with

7
00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:38,325
Speaker 1: her fiance, Matt Irvin, at his apartment in Jonesboro. Amanda

8
00:00:38,405 --> 00:00:41,125
Speaker 1: lived forty miles away in Dell, Arkansas, which is in

9
00:00:41,165 --> 00:00:45,285
Speaker 1: Mississippi County. She lived with her father, ed, her mother, Susan,

10
00:00:45,445 --> 00:00:48,325
Speaker 1: and her twin brother Andy. She also had an older

11
00:00:48,325 --> 00:00:51,885
Speaker 1: brother who worked out of state. Matt did not want

12
00:00:51,885 --> 00:00:54,005
Speaker 1: her to go home that night. It was about a

13
00:00:54,045 --> 00:00:56,445
Speaker 1: forty five minute drive on a good day and the

14
00:00:56,445 --> 00:00:59,645
Speaker 1: weather was bad, but Amanda wanted to get home, so

15
00:00:59,685 --> 00:01:04,205
Speaker 1: she left Jonesboro at around eleven thirty PM, so even

16
00:01:04,245 --> 00:01:07,645
Speaker 1: if she drove very slowly, she should have gotten home

17
00:01:07,765 --> 00:01:11,885
Speaker 1: around twelve thirty am at the latest. Amanda told Matt

18
00:01:11,925 --> 00:01:13,965
Speaker 1: she would call him from her parents' landline as soon

19
00:01:14,005 --> 00:01:16,725
Speaker 1: as she got home. She did have a cell phone,

20
00:01:16,765 --> 00:01:20,205
Speaker 1: by the way, but her family said she never kept

21
00:01:20,205 --> 00:01:24,045
Speaker 1: it charged, and it was always dying. Matt never got

22
00:01:24,045 --> 00:01:28,725
Speaker 1: that call. By one thirty am, he was concerned. Matt

23
00:01:28,765 --> 00:01:34,725
Speaker 1: called Amanda's mother, Susan tussing and woke her up. Susan

24
00:01:34,845 --> 00:01:36,805
Speaker 1: told Matt to hang on a second. She said she

25
00:01:36,845 --> 00:01:39,365
Speaker 1: would check to see if Amanda was in bed, but

26
00:01:39,445 --> 00:01:43,085
Speaker 1: when she went into Amanda's bedroom, she saw that Amanda

27
00:01:43,165 --> 00:01:47,805
Speaker 1: was not home. This was totally unlike Amanda. Her family

28
00:01:47,885 --> 00:01:51,405
Speaker 1: knew something must have happened on that road, so her dad,

29
00:01:51,685 --> 00:01:53,925
Speaker 1: Ed and her brother Andy got in the car together

30
00:01:54,045 --> 00:01:57,845
Speaker 1: and drove toward Dell. Meanwhile, Matt left his house in

31
00:01:57,925 --> 00:02:01,725
Speaker 1: Jonesboro and started driving down Highway eighteen in the opposite direction.

32
00:02:02,645 --> 00:02:05,325
Speaker 1: Their plan was they would meet in the middle and

33
00:02:05,525 --> 00:02:10,405
Speaker 1: hopefully see Amanda. Somewhere along the way, Matt saw Amanda's

34
00:02:10,485 --> 00:02:13,845
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two Pontiac grand am parked under a street light.

35
00:02:14,445 --> 00:02:17,805
Speaker 1: It was on the shoulder of Arkansas Highway eighteen, about

36
00:02:17,805 --> 00:02:21,765
Speaker 1: a mile west of the small town of Monette. Amanda's

37
00:02:21,765 --> 00:02:24,165
Speaker 1: car was on the side of the road. It looked

38
00:02:24,205 --> 00:02:27,405
Speaker 1: like it had been parked there intentionally, in other words,

39
00:02:27,525 --> 00:02:30,925
Speaker 1: not like she randomly swerved over. Matt got out of

40
00:02:30,965 --> 00:02:35,245
Speaker 1: his car, stepped out into the darkness, walked over and

41
00:02:35,285 --> 00:02:40,725
Speaker 1: looked inside. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years

42
00:02:40,765 --> 00:02:43,845
Speaker 1: of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I have

43
00:02:43,965 --> 00:02:46,485
Speaker 1: learned that there is no such thing as a small

44
00:02:46,525 --> 00:02:50,405
Speaker 1: town where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of

45
00:02:50,445 --> 00:02:54,085
Speaker 1: messages from people all around the country asking for help

46
00:02:54,125 --> 00:02:57,365
Speaker 1: with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and

47
00:02:57,405 --> 00:03:00,525
Speaker 1: their communities. If you have a case you'd like me

48
00:03:00,605 --> 00:03:02,885
Speaker 1: and my team to look into, you can reach out

49
00:03:02,925 --> 00:03:05,125
Speaker 1: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six

50
00:03:05,205 --> 00:03:09,045
Speaker 1: seven eight seven four four six one four five. That

51
00:03:09,245 --> 00:03:13,005
Speaker 1: six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

52
00:03:13,845 --> 00:04:06,645
Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Matt called the police.

53
00:04:07,445 --> 00:04:11,045
Speaker 1: They met him and Amanda's father out on Highway eighteen

54
00:04:11,405 --> 00:04:14,965
Speaker 1: by the car. Law enforcement showed up shortly after two

55
00:04:15,005 --> 00:04:19,245
Speaker 1: thirty am. At first, police were thinking maybe her car

56
00:04:19,285 --> 00:04:22,685
Speaker 1: broke down. The keys were still in the ignition. When

57
00:04:22,725 --> 00:04:25,685
Speaker 1: they started it up, the car ran perfectly. There was

58
00:04:25,725 --> 00:04:29,645
Speaker 1: also gas in the tank. They noticed some other things too.

59
00:04:30,285 --> 00:04:32,565
Speaker 1: There was a coke can in the drinkholder that was

60
00:04:32,605 --> 00:04:35,565
Speaker 1: half to three quarters full and it was still chilled

61
00:04:35,925 --> 00:04:40,525
Speaker 1: with condensation on the side, which police believed indicated to

62
00:04:40,605 --> 00:04:42,925
Speaker 1: them that someone had taken a drink out of that

63
00:04:43,005 --> 00:04:47,325
Speaker 1: can pretty recently. They also noticed the radio was turned

64
00:04:47,325 --> 00:04:50,805
Speaker 1: to Amanda's favorite station with the volume turned down, and

65
00:04:50,885 --> 00:04:55,525
Speaker 1: the windshield wipers had stopped midwipe on the windshield. The

66
00:04:55,565 --> 00:04:57,565
Speaker 1: interior of the car did not show any signs of

67
00:04:57,565 --> 00:05:01,365
Speaker 1: foul play. Amanda's stuff was inside, her cell phone and

68
00:05:01,365 --> 00:05:04,525
Speaker 1: her billfold were on the passenger seat. Her cell phone

69
00:05:04,605 --> 00:05:07,165
Speaker 1: was dead, but again and her parents said that that

70
00:05:07,325 --> 00:05:10,245
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a red flag because it was very often dead.

71
00:05:10,805 --> 00:05:12,845
Speaker 1: She had a habit of letting her phone run down.

72
00:05:13,405 --> 00:05:16,045
Speaker 1: And this, by the way, was back way before smartphones.

73
00:05:16,445 --> 00:05:20,085
Speaker 1: Back in two thousand, cell phone reception was very spotty

74
00:05:20,125 --> 00:05:22,845
Speaker 1: in those areas. In some of those areas it still is.

75
00:05:24,925 --> 00:05:28,565
Speaker 1: I talked to Amanda's cousin, Jonathan, about the case. Her

76
00:05:28,605 --> 00:05:32,885
Speaker 1: cousin was born after Amanda disappeared, but Amanda's family has

77
00:05:33,005 --> 00:05:35,245
Speaker 1: never stopped trying to figure out what happened to her.

78
00:05:35,965 --> 00:05:40,485
Speaker 2: The weird thing about the case is that like her

79
00:05:40,525 --> 00:05:45,245
Speaker 2: car wasn't it didn't look like somebody had like pulled

80
00:05:45,245 --> 00:05:47,325
Speaker 2: her over and dragged her out of the car or

81
00:05:47,365 --> 00:05:50,085
Speaker 2: anything like that. Everything was like in place, but she

82
00:05:50,125 --> 00:05:55,165
Speaker 2: had left all her stuff there. So people like to

83
00:05:55,165 --> 00:05:58,565
Speaker 2: say that like Amanda would never have pulled over for

84
00:05:58,685 --> 00:05:59,685
Speaker 2: no reason, you know.

85
00:06:00,805 --> 00:06:04,445
Speaker 1: Investigators and her family believed that she may have pulled

86
00:06:04,485 --> 00:06:07,885
Speaker 1: over to stop for some reason or been pulled over

87
00:06:08,005 --> 00:06:12,645
Speaker 1: by someone. Amanda's family and friends and volunteers came out

88
00:06:12,685 --> 00:06:15,645
Speaker 1: to search, but they saw no sign of Amanda for days.

89
00:06:16,565 --> 00:06:20,845
Speaker 1: Then three days later, on June eighteenth, two thousand, Father's Day,

90
00:06:21,485 --> 00:06:24,725
Speaker 1: a couple, Trent and Fonda Davis, were coming back home

91
00:06:24,765 --> 00:06:27,605
Speaker 1: after a trip to Jonesboro. They drove over the twin

92
00:06:27,645 --> 00:06:31,325
Speaker 1: bridges on Arkansas Highway one thirty five that ran over

93
00:06:31,405 --> 00:06:34,845
Speaker 1: a body of water called Big Bay Ditch. The couple

94
00:06:34,965 --> 00:06:37,725
Speaker 1: saw what they thought were some clothes floating in that water.

95
00:06:38,645 --> 00:06:42,205
Speaker 1: Then they realized that they were looking at a body.

96
00:06:42,245 --> 00:06:52,805
Speaker 1: It was Amanda Tussing. Amanda Tussing's body had been found.

97
00:06:53,445 --> 00:06:56,845
Speaker 1: This was twelve miles in the opposite direction of where

98
00:06:56,885 --> 00:07:00,125
Speaker 1: she was driving. She was driving east. Her body was

99
00:07:00,125 --> 00:07:03,605
Speaker 1: found to the west. An autopsy revealed that Amanda had

100
00:07:03,645 --> 00:07:07,605
Speaker 1: water in her nasal passages, but not her lungs. Law

101
00:07:07,645 --> 00:07:11,845
Speaker 1: enforcement have said publicly that they believe Amanda was dead

102
00:07:11,925 --> 00:07:15,445
Speaker 1: before her body was thrown into the water, but they

103
00:07:15,485 --> 00:07:18,325
Speaker 1: reportedly could not decide on a definite cause of death

104
00:07:18,925 --> 00:07:21,805
Speaker 1: because it could have been a dry drowning where the

105
00:07:21,885 --> 00:07:24,885
Speaker 1: victim dies of choking on the water but water never

106
00:07:24,925 --> 00:07:28,645
Speaker 1: actually gets into the lungs. Amanda had no visible injuries

107
00:07:29,045 --> 00:07:31,365
Speaker 1: except a small bruise on the back of her head.

108
00:07:31,845 --> 00:07:35,725
Speaker 1: There were no obvious signs of sexual assault, but because

109
00:07:35,725 --> 00:07:38,405
Speaker 1: she had been in the water for days, it must

110
00:07:38,445 --> 00:07:41,645
Speaker 1: have been very hard to know for sure. The police

111
00:07:41,765 --> 00:07:45,725
Speaker 1: also had more bad luck. The heavy torrential rains had

112
00:07:45,845 --> 00:07:52,765
Speaker 1: washed away a lot of potential clues. Gary Etter, the

113
00:07:52,765 --> 00:07:57,525
Speaker 1: original detective on the case, told kait Regionate News quote

114
00:07:57,765 --> 00:08:00,765
Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office checked and said that she had

115
00:08:00,805 --> 00:08:03,565
Speaker 1: no physical injuries other than being in the water and

116
00:08:03,605 --> 00:08:06,845
Speaker 1: the impact of the elements. I think whoever did this

117
00:08:07,325 --> 00:08:10,765
Speaker 1: probably did it before. That's what I'm thinking, due to

118
00:08:10,845 --> 00:08:14,965
Speaker 1: no evidence end quote Detective Etter. By the way, in

119
00:08:15,005 --> 00:08:18,045
Speaker 1: my opinion, from what he said in public, it really

120
00:08:18,045 --> 00:08:22,725
Speaker 1: does seem like he deeply cared about this case. Last year,

121
00:08:22,805 --> 00:08:27,005
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, the Craighead County Sheriff's Office assigned

122
00:08:27,045 --> 00:08:30,605
Speaker 1: a new detective named David Bailey to this case, and

123
00:08:30,685 --> 00:08:34,365
Speaker 1: he has said that he's reviewing everything with a fresh eye.

124
00:08:34,525 --> 00:08:39,565
Speaker 1: So who left Amanda there floating in that ditch while

125
00:08:39,605 --> 00:08:42,205
Speaker 1: they were figuring this out? By the way, law enforcement

126
00:08:42,285 --> 00:08:45,085
Speaker 1: did not say there's no immediate danger to the public,

127
00:08:45,685 --> 00:08:48,245
Speaker 1: which is what they say a lot during these cases.

128
00:08:48,685 --> 00:08:52,965
Speaker 1: In fact, they said kind of the opposite in Mississippi County.

129
00:08:53,005 --> 00:08:56,365
Speaker 1: In Craighead County, they told women traveling alone to be

130
00:08:56,445 --> 00:09:01,165
Speaker 1: careful and to take extra precautions. Mississippi County Sheriff Leroy

131
00:09:01,205 --> 00:09:04,885
Speaker 1: Meadows told a local paper, quote, I would urge people

132
00:09:04,885 --> 00:09:07,525
Speaker 1: traveling alone to be careful. It would be wise to

133
00:09:07,565 --> 00:09:09,885
Speaker 1: make sure you know who is trying to stop you,

134
00:09:10,325 --> 00:09:15,245
Speaker 1: or drive to a lighted area before stopping. End quote.

135
00:09:15,365 --> 00:09:17,965
Speaker 1: This is very good advice. I just want to point

136
00:09:17,965 --> 00:09:22,765
Speaker 1: out that Amanda did stop under a street light, and

137
00:09:23,085 --> 00:09:25,685
Speaker 1: her parents said she was very safety conscious and they

138
00:09:25,725 --> 00:09:27,565
Speaker 1: had told her they had drilled it into her she

139
00:09:27,565 --> 00:09:30,405
Speaker 1: should only park in well lit areas late at night.

140
00:09:31,085 --> 00:09:33,845
Speaker 1: So even if she had followed that advice, I'm not

141
00:09:33,885 --> 00:09:37,925
Speaker 1: sure that it would have helped her. Amanda's car had

142
00:09:37,925 --> 00:09:42,005
Speaker 1: some partial fingerprints inside, but according to police, nothing usable.

143
00:09:42,645 --> 00:09:46,285
Speaker 1: According to law enforcement, her car did not look like

144
00:09:46,325 --> 00:09:49,845
Speaker 1: it had been wiped clean. This led investigators to believe

145
00:09:50,005 --> 00:09:53,405
Speaker 1: that the perpetrator probably did not get inside the car.

146
00:09:55,845 --> 00:09:58,325
Speaker 1: Detective Etter said something else in that interview with the

147
00:09:58,365 --> 00:10:01,765
Speaker 1: news channel. He told them, quote, the first thing that

148
00:10:01,805 --> 00:10:03,925
Speaker 1: comes to your mind, and I'm not saying it was

149
00:10:03,965 --> 00:10:07,045
Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer, first thing that comes to your

150
00:10:07,085 --> 00:10:10,245
Speaker 1: mind is that a law enforcement officer would know how

151
00:10:10,285 --> 00:10:11,245
Speaker 1: to conceal the evidence.

152
00:10:12,085 --> 00:10:12,525
Speaker 2: End quote.

153
00:10:17,445 --> 00:10:20,765
Speaker 1: Amanda's family laid her to rest, and the funeral procession

154
00:10:20,885 --> 00:10:24,925
Speaker 1: was three miles long. Everyone loved this young woman who

155
00:10:24,925 --> 00:10:29,085
Speaker 1: had dreams of being a veterinarian, and her father told

156
00:10:29,205 --> 00:10:32,765
Speaker 1: Channel eight news that because Amanda loved the song tie

157
00:10:32,845 --> 00:10:36,485
Speaker 1: yellow ribbon around the old oak tree, the town actually

158
00:10:36,605 --> 00:10:39,325
Speaker 1: ran out of yellow ribbons because there were so many

159
00:10:39,325 --> 00:10:41,525
Speaker 1: of them that had been tied to trees in her honor.

160
00:10:42,365 --> 00:10:46,805
Speaker 1: This murder brought the town together but also terrified locals

161
00:10:46,805 --> 00:10:50,125
Speaker 1: all at the same time. Police did take a close

162
00:10:50,165 --> 00:10:54,565
Speaker 1: look at Matt Amanda's fiancee, which is completely normal. According

163
00:10:54,605 --> 00:10:58,245
Speaker 1: to Amanda's family, they got along very well. They had

164
00:10:58,245 --> 00:11:01,085
Speaker 1: occasional minor arguments about things like where he was going

165
00:11:01,125 --> 00:11:04,605
Speaker 1: to go to school, but they apparently had a very good,

166
00:11:04,685 --> 00:11:08,245
Speaker 1: loving relationship and were very happy. They were supposed to

167
00:11:08,245 --> 00:11:13,645
Speaker 1: get married the next year. In June. Amanda's cousin said

168
00:11:13,845 --> 00:11:16,245
Speaker 1: that Matt did not appear to be a person of

169
00:11:16,245 --> 00:11:17,085
Speaker 1: interest for long.

170
00:11:18,045 --> 00:11:23,205
Speaker 2: I know that at the time, they obviously first suspect,

171
00:11:23,285 --> 00:11:28,005
Speaker 2: you know, is always going to be the spouse, and

172
00:11:28,085 --> 00:11:30,925
Speaker 2: so they questioned him and he was really I'm pretty

173
00:11:30,925 --> 00:11:35,245
Speaker 2: sure he was very cooperative, and then I think they

174
00:11:35,325 --> 00:11:36,085
Speaker 2: ruled him out.

175
00:11:37,365 --> 00:11:41,285
Speaker 1: Also, Matt was the person who reported Amanda missing. Matt

176
00:11:41,285 --> 00:11:44,085
Speaker 1: told investigators he and Amanda had dinner at Dixie Cafe

177
00:11:44,205 --> 00:11:47,125
Speaker 1: that night the night she went missing, and later stopped

178
00:11:47,125 --> 00:11:49,525
Speaker 1: at a grocery store before going back to his apartment.

179
00:11:50,245 --> 00:11:52,965
Speaker 1: One of Amanda's school teachers was able to confirm that

180
00:11:53,005 --> 00:11:55,765
Speaker 1: they had seen the couple at the Dixie Cafe that night,

181
00:11:56,485 --> 00:12:01,925
Speaker 1: so police were able to confirm her activities. Then they

182
00:12:01,965 --> 00:12:04,565
Speaker 1: went back to Matt's apartment. It was getting late and

183
00:12:04,605 --> 00:12:06,925
Speaker 1: the weather was bad, and Matt did not want Amanda

184
00:12:07,005 --> 00:12:10,365
Speaker 1: to get on that road. Amanda still lived at home

185
00:12:10,365 --> 00:12:13,405
Speaker 1: with her parents, and she had a curfew, so if

186
00:12:13,445 --> 00:12:17,045
Speaker 1: Amanda normally called her parents before heading home. Why did

187
00:12:17,085 --> 00:12:19,725
Speaker 1: she head out so late that night? Could she and

188
00:12:19,725 --> 00:12:24,285
Speaker 1: Matt have been arguing? They grilled Matt hard. They questioned

189
00:12:24,365 --> 00:12:27,445
Speaker 1: him several times, but police said he was totally cooperative,

190
00:12:27,885 --> 00:12:32,805
Speaker 1: that he had passed polygraphs three separate times. Police also

191
00:12:32,885 --> 00:12:36,845
Speaker 1: considered another possibility very early on, that Amanda could have

192
00:12:36,885 --> 00:12:39,605
Speaker 1: been pulled over by a member of law enforcement.

193
00:12:40,165 --> 00:12:43,525
Speaker 2: So they think it was There's been a theory that

194
00:12:43,725 --> 00:12:47,005
Speaker 2: it was someone in law enforcement that pulled her over

195
00:12:47,405 --> 00:12:50,005
Speaker 2: and then got her out of the car and then

196
00:12:50,045 --> 00:12:53,605
Speaker 2: took her or people think that it might have been

197
00:12:53,645 --> 00:12:57,365
Speaker 2: someone impersonating law enforcement and got her out.

198
00:12:58,725 --> 00:13:01,445
Speaker 1: Detectives were processing Amanda's body in the clothes that she

199
00:13:01,485 --> 00:13:04,565
Speaker 1: was found in when her body was recovered from that ditch.

200
00:13:04,885 --> 00:13:07,325
Speaker 1: She was still wearing the same jeans and white gap

201
00:13:07,405 --> 00:13:09,325
Speaker 1: T shirt she had been wearing when she went missing.

202
00:13:10,045 --> 00:13:12,685
Speaker 1: Her driver's license was in the front pocket of her genes.

203
00:13:13,645 --> 00:13:15,965
Speaker 1: Now I wondered at first if that had some kind

204
00:13:16,005 --> 00:13:20,245
Speaker 1: of significance. Could that be evidence that Amanda got pulled over?

205
00:13:21,285 --> 00:13:25,725
Speaker 1: But her mother said not necessarily. She told police that

206
00:13:25,845 --> 00:13:29,045
Speaker 1: Amanda normally kept her driver's license like that in her

207
00:13:29,045 --> 00:13:32,445
Speaker 1: front pocket. Apparently she never kept it in a purse

208
00:13:32,525 --> 00:13:36,205
Speaker 1: or a billfold. Amanda was wearing her diamond engagement ring

209
00:13:36,205 --> 00:13:39,045
Speaker 1: when she was found, so between that and the wallet

210
00:13:39,085 --> 00:13:41,205
Speaker 1: that had been left on her seat, detectives took this

211
00:13:41,245 --> 00:13:45,125
Speaker 1: as even more evidence. The motive was obviously not robbery.

212
00:13:46,045 --> 00:13:49,645
Speaker 1: Investigators believed Amanda was killed somewhere else and then thrown

213
00:13:49,685 --> 00:13:52,925
Speaker 1: into the water, but the question is where and why,

214
00:13:53,645 --> 00:13:56,445
Speaker 1: because the only injury they found was a bruise on

215
00:13:56,485 --> 00:14:00,285
Speaker 1: the back of her head. A few years after Amanda disappeared,

216
00:14:00,765 --> 00:14:04,925
Speaker 1: law enforcement gave photos to the TV station Regionate News,

217
00:14:05,725 --> 00:14:10,005
Speaker 1: and they are haunting. You could see one of the

218
00:14:10,005 --> 00:14:12,685
Speaker 1: clues that can of coke in the drink holder that

219
00:14:12,765 --> 00:14:16,245
Speaker 1: was partly empty. It was chilled with condensation on the

220
00:14:16,325 --> 00:14:19,845
Speaker 1: night she disappeared. Now a lot of people have wondered

221
00:14:20,485 --> 00:14:22,805
Speaker 1: if the coke can was a clue that maybe she

222
00:14:22,845 --> 00:14:27,325
Speaker 1: had stopped somewhere on the road during her drive. It

223
00:14:27,365 --> 00:14:29,925
Speaker 1: was late at night, and that is a pretty remote

224
00:14:29,965 --> 00:14:32,125
Speaker 1: strip of highway. There are only a couple of gas

225
00:14:32,205 --> 00:14:36,525
Speaker 1: stations along it. Police did apparently check surveillance footage from

226
00:14:36,685 --> 00:14:39,565
Speaker 1: one of these convenience stores and said they did not

227
00:14:39,765 --> 00:14:42,965
Speaker 1: see Amanda on it, but that's not proof that she

228
00:14:43,085 --> 00:14:47,165
Speaker 1: wasn't there. And someone else also brought up another interesting possibility.

229
00:14:47,165 --> 00:14:49,765
Speaker 1: I was reading a lot of online comments and they

230
00:14:49,845 --> 00:14:53,085
Speaker 1: mentioned the were vending machines at a couple of these places,

231
00:14:53,525 --> 00:14:56,765
Speaker 1: So even if she didn't go in, maybe she stopped

232
00:14:56,805 --> 00:15:00,965
Speaker 1: at a vending machine. Now, Matt apparently told investigators he

233
00:15:01,165 --> 00:15:03,405
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if she had taken the drink from his

234
00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:06,845
Speaker 1: house or not, so that's another part possibility she might

235
00:15:06,925 --> 00:15:10,125
Speaker 1: have taken it from her fiance's home because she was

236
00:15:10,205 --> 00:15:13,525
Speaker 1: not in the car that long before something stopped her

237
00:15:13,565 --> 00:15:18,205
Speaker 1: on that dark stretch of road. There was a witness

238
00:15:18,445 --> 00:15:21,245
Speaker 1: who reportedly said that he saw her at a gas station,

239
00:15:22,045 --> 00:15:25,965
Speaker 1: but police couldn't confirm this, and again they reportedly pulled

240
00:15:25,965 --> 00:15:28,685
Speaker 1: surveillance footage and didn't see her in it. I don't

241
00:15:28,725 --> 00:15:31,325
Speaker 1: know times or details, because remember this is still an

242
00:15:31,325 --> 00:15:33,765
Speaker 1: open investigation, so we don't have access to any of

243
00:15:33,765 --> 00:15:37,485
Speaker 1: the case files. In the photos that were released to

244
00:15:37,565 --> 00:15:40,605
Speaker 1: the media, you can see a basketball on the foreboard.

245
00:15:41,445 --> 00:15:47,685
Speaker 1: Amanda played sports in high school. She was an accomplished athlete.

246
00:15:47,885 --> 00:15:51,365
Speaker 1: There's also a Bridle magazine in the car. She was

247
00:15:51,485 --> 00:15:55,165
Speaker 1: clearly excited about her upcoming wedding and probably looking at dresses.

248
00:15:56,285 --> 00:15:59,205
Speaker 1: Both Amanda's parents say they believe she may have been

249
00:15:59,205 --> 00:16:03,645
Speaker 1: stopped by someone, maybe someone impersonating a police officer, or

250
00:16:03,805 --> 00:16:05,365
Speaker 1: that she had some kind of car trouble.

251
00:16:06,845 --> 00:16:10,925
Speaker 2: The law enforcement theory is a good one, but then

252
00:16:10,965 --> 00:16:14,165
Speaker 2: there's been other people who have said, maybe it was

253
00:16:14,205 --> 00:16:17,525
Speaker 2: a serial killer that was just you know, passing through

254
00:16:18,205 --> 00:16:23,125
Speaker 2: that came and did it, because just the evidence at

255
00:16:23,125 --> 00:16:26,565
Speaker 2: the car, there was basically no evidence to go off of.

256
00:16:27,645 --> 00:16:32,285
Speaker 1: Over the years, law enforcement have debated and investigated a

257
00:16:32,285 --> 00:16:36,205
Speaker 1: lot of these theories. Like so many cases, this one

258
00:16:36,245 --> 00:16:39,325
Speaker 1: has been the subject of several rumors over the years.

259
00:16:39,525 --> 00:16:41,645
Speaker 2: There's a ton of people in the community, I mean

260
00:16:41,725 --> 00:16:45,525
Speaker 2: a ton of people that want this case to be solved.

261
00:16:45,525 --> 00:16:47,365
Speaker 2: And there's a ton of people who think that it's

262
00:16:47,445 --> 00:16:52,565
Speaker 2: like literally like we're right there and they're they're close.

263
00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:56,325
Speaker 2: But that's just all hearsay. I mean, it doesn't mean anything.

264
00:16:56,485 --> 00:17:00,845
Speaker 2: But there's people who say who swear up and down

265
00:17:00,885 --> 00:17:03,085
Speaker 2: they know who did it. They just don't have evidence,

266
00:17:03,525 --> 00:17:05,005
Speaker 2: enough evidence to book the guy.

267
00:17:06,645 --> 00:17:10,005
Speaker 1: The strip of road between Jonesborough and Dell is pretty remote,

268
00:17:10,085 --> 00:17:13,205
Speaker 1: especially back then. It passes through a couple of small

269
00:17:13,245 --> 00:17:16,045
Speaker 1: towns like Manila and Black Oak, and there are only

270
00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:18,245
Speaker 1: a couple of gas stations that would have been opened

271
00:17:18,285 --> 00:17:21,645
Speaker 1: during that time. Over the years, a lot of people

272
00:17:21,685 --> 00:17:24,045
Speaker 1: came forward with tips, but most of them led to nothing.

273
00:17:24,845 --> 00:17:27,965
Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, the sheriff in a neighboring county,

274
00:17:28,085 --> 00:17:31,125
Speaker 1: Jack McCann of Craighead County, said that they had gotten

275
00:17:31,125 --> 00:17:35,045
Speaker 1: a major tip that someone had told them there was

276
00:17:35,085 --> 00:17:38,205
Speaker 1: some sort of note in Amanda's coffin. I don't know

277
00:17:38,205 --> 00:17:40,925
Speaker 1: if it was a confession or information, but it was

278
00:17:40,965 --> 00:17:44,125
Speaker 1: apparently something that could have helped lead to the killer's identity.

279
00:17:45,045 --> 00:17:49,605
Speaker 1: Amanda's body was exhumed, there was no note or anything

280
00:17:49,605 --> 00:17:54,525
Speaker 1: else inside that casket besides her remains. To me, this

281
00:17:54,565 --> 00:17:57,005
Speaker 1: really does show how police were willing to act on

282
00:17:57,125 --> 00:18:00,325
Speaker 1: any tip. I'm sure that after going through the trauma

283
00:18:00,485 --> 00:18:03,605
Speaker 1: of unearthing their daughter's body, the fact that the coffin

284
00:18:03,645 --> 00:18:07,165
Speaker 1: had no evidence must have been another devastating blow for

285
00:18:07,245 --> 00:18:11,765
Speaker 1: Amanda's parents. Around that same time, a psychic detective rolled

286
00:18:11,765 --> 00:18:15,245
Speaker 1: into town with a court TV show called Haunting Evidence.

287
00:18:15,765 --> 00:18:18,085
Speaker 1: I'm sure many of you know how I feel about psychics.

288
00:18:18,085 --> 00:18:22,285
Speaker 1: On this podcast, Apparently their paranormal investigation did not provide

289
00:18:22,285 --> 00:18:26,045
Speaker 1: any credible leads. Then, in two thousand and seven, an

290
00:18:26,045 --> 00:18:29,245
Speaker 1: anonymous person told the Sheriff's department that they had heard

291
00:18:29,285 --> 00:18:33,925
Speaker 1: people allegedly discussing Amanda's murder, but nothing came to that either.

292
00:18:34,965 --> 00:18:37,125
Speaker 1: In so many of these cases, we see this over

293
00:18:37,165 --> 00:18:40,285
Speaker 1: and over. People over the years will claim either that

294
00:18:40,325 --> 00:18:42,285
Speaker 1: they did it or they know someone who did it.

295
00:18:42,965 --> 00:18:46,005
Speaker 1: They'll do it sometimes for their own reasons. Sometimes if

296
00:18:46,045 --> 00:18:49,285
Speaker 1: they're incarcerated, they may want to impress other inmates, and

297
00:18:49,325 --> 00:18:52,685
Speaker 1: the more publicity a case has, the more rumors start flying.

298
00:18:53,605 --> 00:18:56,405
Speaker 1: But police were willing to listen because there was a

299
00:18:56,445 --> 00:18:59,045
Speaker 1: real lack of physical evidence. In this case. There were

300
00:18:59,165 --> 00:19:03,205
Speaker 1: zero suspects and no clear motive. There was one single

301
00:19:03,285 --> 00:19:07,205
Speaker 1: hair found on Amanda's body. They did DNA testing, but

302
00:19:07,285 --> 00:19:11,445
Speaker 1: it turned out that it was Amanda's own hair. The

303
00:19:11,485 --> 00:19:15,285
Speaker 1: Sheriff's department admitted that law enforcement was up a creek,

304
00:19:15,805 --> 00:19:17,605
Speaker 1: and what I take from that is that they were

305
00:19:17,645 --> 00:19:21,805
Speaker 1: just stuck no forward movement on the case. Amanda's father

306
00:19:21,845 --> 00:19:25,365
Speaker 1: did an interview with kt Channel eight, and it was heartbreaking.

307
00:19:26,205 --> 00:19:29,045
Speaker 1: He talked about the fact that Amanda was found on

308
00:19:29,165 --> 00:19:32,525
Speaker 1: Father's Day. The reporter asked him if he was affected

309
00:19:32,645 --> 00:19:37,725
Speaker 1: every single Father's Day. He got tearful and said, yeah,

310
00:19:37,765 --> 00:19:41,205
Speaker 1: but it's no different from other days. He's affected every

311
00:19:41,285 --> 00:19:47,525
Speaker 1: single day by his daughter's murder. So police are left

312
00:19:47,565 --> 00:19:52,325
Speaker 1: with a few different possibilities. Was Amanda killed by someone random,

313
00:19:52,405 --> 00:19:55,645
Speaker 1: maybe someone who was just passing through the area. Detectives

314
00:19:55,725 --> 00:19:59,085
Speaker 1: don't think so. They think the location of the body

315
00:19:59,285 --> 00:20:02,165
Speaker 1: is a big clue. They point out that it's near

316
00:20:02,205 --> 00:20:05,885
Speaker 1: an access point that they believe only someone local would

317
00:20:05,885 --> 00:20:18,285
Speaker 1: know about. But what about a local serial killer. Several

318
00:20:18,285 --> 00:20:21,445
Speaker 1: people have suggested that Amanda might have been killed by

319
00:20:21,485 --> 00:20:25,725
Speaker 1: someone impersonating a police officer. Now, there was one very

320
00:20:25,765 --> 00:20:28,805
Speaker 1: high profile case a serial rapist who was preying on

321
00:20:28,885 --> 00:20:31,805
Speaker 1: women in Arkansas in the late nineties. The papers gave

322
00:20:31,885 --> 00:20:35,085
Speaker 1: him the name the blue Light Rapist. His real name

323
00:20:35,125 --> 00:20:38,765
Speaker 1: was Robert Todd Birmingham. He was convicted of raping two

324
00:20:38,805 --> 00:20:42,805
Speaker 1: women in eastern Arkansas in nineteen ninety seven. The reason

325
00:20:42,845 --> 00:20:45,325
Speaker 1: he was given that nickname was because he had blue

326
00:20:45,405 --> 00:20:48,565
Speaker 1: lights on top of his car. He pulled women over

327
00:20:48,685 --> 00:20:52,525
Speaker 1: and impersonated a police officer. One of Robert's victims, a

328
00:20:52,565 --> 00:20:55,925
Speaker 1: seventeen year old whose first name was Shannon, told detectives

329
00:20:56,005 --> 00:20:58,725
Speaker 1: he pulled her over while she was traveling alone on

330
00:20:58,765 --> 00:21:02,405
Speaker 1: a state highway. She said at first she thought she

331
00:21:02,445 --> 00:21:05,445
Speaker 1: was going to get a speeding ticket. After he signed

332
00:21:05,645 --> 00:21:08,245
Speaker 1: for her to pull over and she did, Robert came

333
00:21:08,325 --> 00:21:10,725
Speaker 1: up to the window of her car carrying a gun.

334
00:21:11,605 --> 00:21:13,965
Speaker 1: He told her to cover her face with a shirt

335
00:21:14,325 --> 00:21:17,245
Speaker 1: and to get out of her car, then he forced

336
00:21:17,245 --> 00:21:21,285
Speaker 1: her into his vehicle. Once he got Shannon into his vehicle,

337
00:21:21,645 --> 00:21:23,765
Speaker 1: he claimed that his buddy was going to take her

338
00:21:23,805 --> 00:21:26,965
Speaker 1: to Little Rock to pick someone up, but instead he

339
00:21:27,045 --> 00:21:30,725
Speaker 1: drove her to a remote location and raped her. He

340
00:21:30,805 --> 00:21:32,645
Speaker 1: told her that if she would kiss him back, he

341
00:21:32,685 --> 00:21:36,445
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt her. After the assault, he forced her to

342
00:21:36,485 --> 00:21:39,605
Speaker 1: redress and took her to a field. He made her

343
00:21:39,685 --> 00:21:44,005
Speaker 1: lie down and wait until he was gone. Robert was

344
00:21:44,045 --> 00:21:46,805
Speaker 1: convicted of those two rapes, but he was suspected of

345
00:21:46,845 --> 00:21:52,525
Speaker 1: committing more. There were other attacks women who were pulled

346
00:21:52,525 --> 00:21:55,245
Speaker 1: over in the same area with blue Mars lights and

347
00:21:55,285 --> 00:21:59,645
Speaker 1: then sexually assaulted, but Robert was never convicted of those attacks.

348
00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:04,965
Speaker 1: Side note. In twenty seventeen, lawmakers passed Shannon's law name

349
00:22:05,085 --> 00:22:09,285
Speaker 1: for Shannon. This law increased the penalty for anyone caught

350
00:22:09,325 --> 00:22:15,165
Speaker 1: illegally possessing blue emergency lights. Robert was sentenced to life

351
00:22:15,165 --> 00:22:19,365
Speaker 1: in prison. He died in prison of COVID related complications

352
00:22:19,685 --> 00:22:24,405
Speaker 1: in May twenty twenty. But Robert was convicted in nineteen

353
00:22:24,445 --> 00:22:28,165
Speaker 1: ninety seven, which of course, was three years before Amanda's death.

354
00:22:28,845 --> 00:22:32,165
Speaker 1: But there were still lingering questions about these other alleged

355
00:22:32,205 --> 00:22:36,805
Speaker 1: blue light assaults. Were these copycat rapes or could there

356
00:22:36,845 --> 00:22:40,005
Speaker 1: have been another blue light rapist out there one who

357
00:22:40,125 --> 00:22:46,445
Speaker 1: wasn't caught. There was another young woman, eighteen year old

358
00:22:46,525 --> 00:22:49,965
Speaker 1: Dana Stidham, who went missing from Bella Vista, Arkansas, on

359
00:22:50,045 --> 00:22:53,485
Speaker 1: July twenty fifth, nineteen eighty nine. On that day, Dana

360
00:22:53,765 --> 00:22:56,925
Speaker 1: was on her way home. She had gone out to

361
00:22:57,005 --> 00:22:59,685
Speaker 1: run some errands for her dad, who wasn't feeling well.

362
00:23:00,645 --> 00:23:02,885
Speaker 1: He asked her to pick some stuff up for him,

363
00:23:03,445 --> 00:23:06,725
Speaker 1: so she went to Phillip's food store Bella Vista. She

364
00:23:06,805 --> 00:23:09,645
Speaker 1: bought some Alka seltzer and some dishwashing soap and sugar.

365
00:23:10,165 --> 00:23:12,845
Speaker 1: This is all according to receipts. She left at three

366
00:23:12,965 --> 00:23:17,325
Speaker 1: seventeen PM. Now there was another grocery store closer to

367
00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:20,365
Speaker 1: her house. But later one of the detectives on the

368
00:23:20,405 --> 00:23:23,325
Speaker 1: case talked to reporters and said that Dana avoided that

369
00:23:23,405 --> 00:23:25,925
Speaker 1: store because a guy whose parents owned the store back

370
00:23:25,965 --> 00:23:28,845
Speaker 1: then hung out there a lot. Now, apparently this guy

371
00:23:28,965 --> 00:23:33,605
Speaker 1: had a crush on Dana, but the feelings were not reciprocated.

372
00:23:33,965 --> 00:23:36,125
Speaker 1: The last time that Dana was seen alive was when

373
00:23:36,165 --> 00:23:38,685
Speaker 1: she left that food store after running her errand for

374
00:23:38,725 --> 00:23:41,965
Speaker 1: her dad. She used to work at Phillip's Food store,

375
00:23:42,165 --> 00:23:44,005
Speaker 1: so she knew a lot of people there and they

376
00:23:44,045 --> 00:23:46,925
Speaker 1: all remembered talking to her. She talked to people she

377
00:23:47,005 --> 00:23:50,005
Speaker 1: knew in the store and in the parking lot. Police

378
00:23:50,045 --> 00:23:52,805
Speaker 1: said they also talked to another witness, someone who was

379
00:23:52,845 --> 00:23:56,645
Speaker 1: apparently doing some landscaping near the store. Now, this person

380
00:23:56,685 --> 00:23:59,765
Speaker 1: apparently told police that they saw Dana lee, but they

381
00:23:59,885 --> 00:24:02,525
Speaker 1: weren't sure which way she turned when she drove out.

382
00:24:03,485 --> 00:24:08,525
Speaker 1: After that, Dana never came home home. On July twenty sixth,

383
00:24:08,605 --> 00:24:11,605
Speaker 1: at around six thirty am, a police officer was driving

384
00:24:11,685 --> 00:24:15,485
Speaker 1: southbound down US Highway seventy one when they saw Dana's

385
00:24:15,565 --> 00:24:19,565
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four Dodge Omni abandoned on the shoulder near

386
00:24:19,605 --> 00:24:23,365
Speaker 1: Wellington Road. The keys were still in the ignition, the

387
00:24:23,445 --> 00:24:26,005
Speaker 1: driver's side window was halfway down and the rear tire

388
00:24:26,125 --> 00:24:30,645
Speaker 1: was slightly deflated but not totally flat. Again, there was

389
00:24:30,765 --> 00:24:33,685
Speaker 1: no obvious sign of anything being wrong with the car,

390
00:24:34,125 --> 00:24:37,965
Speaker 1: and no sign of foul play. But this time Dana's

391
00:24:37,965 --> 00:24:41,245
Speaker 1: purse was missing and the driver's seat was way back,

392
00:24:41,565 --> 00:24:43,965
Speaker 1: as if a taller person had been the last one driving.

393
00:24:45,365 --> 00:24:48,285
Speaker 1: Dana had been doing laundry that day, and her laundry

394
00:24:48,365 --> 00:24:51,805
Speaker 1: was found scattered several feet away from the car. The

395
00:24:51,845 --> 00:24:55,005
Speaker 1: search for Dana went on for months, then in September

396
00:24:55,045 --> 00:24:57,965
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty nine, a hundred found Dana's remains in

397
00:24:58,005 --> 00:25:01,605
Speaker 1: a creek bed near the Arkansas Missouri border. Her clothes

398
00:25:01,645 --> 00:25:05,005
Speaker 1: were buried in a shallow grave nearby. She had a

399
00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:08,405
Speaker 1: cut on the her left shoulder blade. It's been reported

400
00:25:08,405 --> 00:25:10,925
Speaker 1: that detectives were not sure of the actual cause of death,

401
00:25:11,045 --> 00:25:13,965
Speaker 1: but they are withholding details, so I can't be sure

402
00:25:13,965 --> 00:25:16,445
Speaker 1: about that, and obviously this is still an open investigation.

403
00:25:17,045 --> 00:25:20,045
Speaker 1: But they have made some facts public, like the fact

404
00:25:20,125 --> 00:25:22,805
Speaker 1: that detectives had suspicions about that guy, the one who

405
00:25:22,805 --> 00:25:25,285
Speaker 1: had a crush on Dana, the one who attended the

406
00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:28,605
Speaker 1: same high school she did. They questioned this person, but

407
00:25:28,765 --> 00:25:32,165
Speaker 1: in the end, the Benton County Prosecutor, Brad Butler, said

408
00:25:32,165 --> 00:25:35,165
Speaker 1: he didn't believe he had enough physical or circumstantial evidence

409
00:25:35,165 --> 00:25:38,445
Speaker 1: to file any charges. We're going to talk more in

410
00:25:38,485 --> 00:25:41,805
Speaker 1: depth about Dana Stidham's case in a future episode, And

411
00:25:42,165 --> 00:25:44,245
Speaker 1: I just want to be clear. I always hate when

412
00:25:44,285 --> 00:25:47,525
Speaker 1: people make really tenuous connections between cases that are obviously

413
00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:51,125
Speaker 1: not connected. I have no reason to believe right now

414
00:25:51,165 --> 00:25:54,525
Speaker 1: that these two cases are connected. Dana was found in

415
00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:56,845
Speaker 1: a grave. Amanda was found in a body of water.

416
00:25:57,445 --> 00:26:00,565
Speaker 1: Dana's clothes were buried nearby. So, at least from what

417
00:26:00,605 --> 00:26:04,205
Speaker 1: we know what's come out publicly, it does seem like,

418
00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,685
Speaker 1: at least on the surface, there could be more evidence

419
00:26:06,765 --> 00:26:10,445
Speaker 1: that Dana's case may have been some type of a

420
00:26:10,485 --> 00:26:15,205
Speaker 1: sex crime. Amanda disappeared at night, Dana disappeared in the

421
00:26:15,245 --> 00:26:18,405
Speaker 1: middle of the day. But there were also some similarities.

422
00:26:18,925 --> 00:26:21,565
Speaker 1: Both women were petite, Dana was five foot two and

423
00:26:21,565 --> 00:26:25,525
Speaker 1: one hundred pounds with short dark hare. The crimes happened

424
00:26:25,645 --> 00:26:29,085
Speaker 1: near each other. Both women's cars were found abandoned on

425
00:26:29,085 --> 00:26:31,325
Speaker 1: the side of the road with the keys and the ignition,

426
00:26:32,325 --> 00:26:35,605
Speaker 1: and there were similar theories discussed in both cases, including

427
00:26:35,605 --> 00:26:39,085
Speaker 1: the possibility someone impersonating a police officer could have pulled

428
00:26:39,125 --> 00:26:43,205
Speaker 1: them over. I found something very interesting in the court documents.

429
00:26:43,245 --> 00:26:48,365
Speaker 1: After the blue light rapist's conviction, the circuit court allowed

430
00:26:48,405 --> 00:26:52,005
Speaker 1: a second victim to testify in court. They allowed this

431
00:26:52,285 --> 00:26:55,365
Speaker 1: so that they could establish the rapist pattern his MO.

432
00:26:56,325 --> 00:26:59,405
Speaker 1: So what's interesting here is that two of Robert's victims

433
00:26:59,445 --> 00:27:03,205
Speaker 1: had some similarities. The reason this is interesting to me

434
00:27:03,405 --> 00:27:06,885
Speaker 1: is not because Robert kill Amanda, we know he didn't,

435
00:27:06,925 --> 00:27:10,005
Speaker 1: he was in jail at the time, but because maybe

436
00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:12,245
Speaker 1: the methods he used can give us some insight into

437
00:27:12,285 --> 00:27:15,725
Speaker 1: other predators. Robert would tell these women they were being

438
00:27:15,805 --> 00:27:19,445
Speaker 1: charged with DWI, but he said perhaps he could work

439
00:27:19,485 --> 00:27:23,725
Speaker 1: something out with them. He also apparently would do body searches,

440
00:27:23,805 --> 00:27:26,125
Speaker 1: and then that was the excuse he used to put

441
00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:28,365
Speaker 1: his hands on these women and cross the line physically.

442
00:27:28,965 --> 00:27:31,485
Speaker 1: He did not get into the women's cars, he followed

443
00:27:31,485 --> 00:27:35,605
Speaker 1: them in his car. Also, both of Robert's victims had

444
00:27:35,645 --> 00:27:37,565
Speaker 1: families that were out of town at the time when

445
00:27:37,565 --> 00:27:40,645
Speaker 1: their attacks took place. And this is something that piqued

446
00:27:40,645 --> 00:27:43,765
Speaker 1: my curiosity. Was this something he knew beforehand because he

447
00:27:43,845 --> 00:27:47,285
Speaker 1: recognized these women or was this something he found out

448
00:27:47,325 --> 00:27:51,125
Speaker 1: while questioning them initially and used his advantage. So the

449
00:27:51,205 --> 00:27:53,925
Speaker 1: killer could have been someone impersonating a police officer, but

450
00:27:54,045 --> 00:27:57,525
Speaker 1: there is also another possibility the killer could have been

451
00:27:57,645 --> 00:28:00,525
Speaker 1: a real police officer, either one that was on duty

452
00:28:00,565 --> 00:28:03,445
Speaker 1: at the time or off duty in a patrol car.

453
00:28:05,045 --> 00:28:09,165
Speaker 1: Law Horrisment definitely seemed to consider this possibility. The sheriff

454
00:28:09,245 --> 00:28:11,845
Speaker 1: made the comment to news station eight that a police

455
00:28:11,885 --> 00:28:15,645
Speaker 1: officer would know how to hide evidence. In fact, detectives

456
00:28:15,685 --> 00:28:19,925
Speaker 1: spoke to several police officers from Mississippi County and Craighead County.

457
00:28:21,165 --> 00:28:23,565
Speaker 1: They apparently ruled a lot of people out and gave

458
00:28:23,605 --> 00:28:25,925
Speaker 1: a lot of polygraph tests to members of law enforcement.

459
00:28:26,725 --> 00:28:29,885
Speaker 1: One person they focused on was reportedly a police officer

460
00:28:29,965 --> 00:28:33,045
Speaker 1: who lived in the nearby town of black Oak. That

461
00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:35,805
Speaker 1: would have been one of the towns that Amanda Tussing

462
00:28:36,085 --> 00:28:40,125
Speaker 1: would have gone through on her way home. True crime

463
00:28:40,165 --> 00:28:43,005
Speaker 1: author George Jared, who we worked with on the Rebecca

464
00:28:43,045 --> 00:28:46,405
Speaker 1: Gould case, discussed this theory in his book Whispers and

465
00:28:46,445 --> 00:28:50,725
Speaker 1: the Willows, and in his book he said that he

466
00:28:50,805 --> 00:28:54,125
Speaker 1: discovered through his law enforcement sources that that officer's name

467
00:28:54,325 --> 00:28:58,765
Speaker 1: was Johnny Williams. Apparently a lot of women were complaining

468
00:28:58,845 --> 00:29:01,445
Speaker 1: back in the day that Johnny would follow them home.

469
00:29:02,045 --> 00:29:04,565
Speaker 1: He wrote in the book that police interviewed Johnny Williams

470
00:29:04,645 --> 00:29:08,405
Speaker 1: multiple times. Amanda's cousin wasn't sure about the name when

471
00:29:08,485 --> 00:29:11,765
Speaker 1: we brought it up, but the family has said over

472
00:29:11,805 --> 00:29:14,525
Speaker 1: the years they have heard that there was someone in

473
00:29:14,605 --> 00:29:19,045
Speaker 1: law enforcement who police apparently suspected, couldn't get enough evidence

474
00:29:19,085 --> 00:29:22,165
Speaker 1: on and hoped would give a deathbed confession when he

475
00:29:22,205 --> 00:29:26,725
Speaker 1: began to get sick. Johnny got a terminal illness in

476
00:29:26,725 --> 00:29:32,125
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. He passed away the following year. Now,

477
00:29:32,205 --> 00:29:36,085
Speaker 1: Johnny Williams was never publicly named a suspect, never arrested

478
00:29:36,205 --> 00:29:40,525
Speaker 1: or charged in connection with anything involving Amanda's case. We

479
00:29:40,645 --> 00:29:42,885
Speaker 1: have no idea if he had any information at all,

480
00:29:43,285 --> 00:29:45,485
Speaker 1: but any information he would have had went to the

481
00:29:45,525 --> 00:29:55,325
Speaker 1: grave with him in twenty ten. So who killed Amanda Tussing?

482
00:29:56,085 --> 00:29:59,725
Speaker 1: There are still a lot of possibilities to consider. One

483
00:29:59,925 --> 00:30:02,085
Speaker 1: is that Amanda did stop at a convenience store on

484
00:30:02,125 --> 00:30:05,285
Speaker 1: her way home and got that can of coke. Maybe

485
00:30:05,325 --> 00:30:07,485
Speaker 1: so someone saw her there and followed her out of

486
00:30:07,485 --> 00:30:10,645
Speaker 1: the store. Now that person might have been a police officer,

487
00:30:10,805 --> 00:30:14,525
Speaker 1: or it's also possible that the person who got her

488
00:30:14,565 --> 00:30:17,485
Speaker 1: to pull over wasn't a police officer at all. Maybe

489
00:30:17,485 --> 00:30:20,485
Speaker 1: it was someone faking car trouble, maybe they got her

490
00:30:20,485 --> 00:30:25,605
Speaker 1: to pull over another way, or maybe she pulled over first.

491
00:30:26,205 --> 00:30:29,765
Speaker 1: It was raining really heavily that night. Maybe she was

492
00:30:29,765 --> 00:30:32,965
Speaker 1: sitting in her car until the rain passed and someone

493
00:30:33,005 --> 00:30:36,485
Speaker 1: saw her park there. In that moment, sitting inside that

494
00:30:36,605 --> 00:30:41,645
Speaker 1: dark car with zero visibility, she was very vulnerable. Whether

495
00:30:41,685 --> 00:30:45,525
Speaker 1: it was a law enforcement officer, someone impersonating a police officer,

496
00:30:45,685 --> 00:30:49,805
Speaker 1: or just a sick and twisted random person. It seems

497
00:30:50,005 --> 00:30:52,565
Speaker 1: likely that it was someone who lived in the area

498
00:30:53,485 --> 00:30:58,205
Speaker 1: and they could be still out there. I'm Catherine Townsend.

499
00:30:58,685 --> 00:31:10,805
Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line

500
00:31:10,885 --> 00:31:13,285
Speaker 1: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

501
00:31:13,605 --> 00:31:16,725
Speaker 1: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

502
00:31:16,765 --> 00:31:21,325
Speaker 1: by Gabby Watts. Music contributed by Ben Sale Special thanks

503
00:31:21,325 --> 00:31:25,365
Speaker 1: to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Noah Camera mixed

504
00:31:25,365 --> 00:31:30,285
Speaker 1: and scored this episode. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,

505
00:31:30,325 --> 00:31:34,205
Speaker 1: and Elsie Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by

506
00:31:34,205 --> 00:31:37,805
Speaker 1: subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plush channel on Apple Podcasts.

507
00:31:38,125 --> 00:31:41,125
Speaker 1: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod.

508
00:31:41,845 --> 00:31:43,485
Speaker 1: If you have a case you'd like me and my

509
00:31:43,525 --> 00:31:45,765
Speaker 1: team to look into, you can reach out to us

510
00:31:45,925 --> 00:31:48,245
Speaker 1: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight

511
00:31:48,685 --> 00:31:52,365
Speaker 1: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven

512
00:31:52,405 --> 00:32:05,885
Speaker 1: eight seven four four six ' one four five. School

513
00:32:05,925 --> 00:32:06,485
Speaker 1: of Humans