WEBVTT - Alaska: Front Line in the Global Trade War 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.680 When Donald Trump ran for president in sixteen, a lot 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:09.040 of attention focused on how falling trade barriers had caused 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.520 pain throughout the rust bell and other centers of manufacturing 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.439 in the United States. Now, with Trump's trade war spreading 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.119 more widely each month, the fallout is hitting many industries 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.800 in the US and around the world. On this week's episode, 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.360 we look at how Trump's tariffs on Chinese imports, along 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:32.680 with China's retaliation, are threatening America's great northern frontier of Alaska, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.280 a state that happened to vote big for Trump and 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:49.840 Republicans in Welcome to Benchmark. I'm Scott Landman, an economics 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.960 editor with Bloomberg News in Washington. Joining me in our 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.120 d C studio is Reid Picker, who's interning the summer 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.360 as a reporter with our US Economy team. She recently 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.280 wrote about how Alaska's seafood industry is getting caught up 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.080 in the trade war. Read thanks for joining us on 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.360 the podcast. Glad to be here so read why did 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.000 you look into this topic? I started looking into this 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.600 topic originally because we had just received the list from 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.600 China of the retaliatory tariffs on the thirty four billion 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.040 dollars worth of Chinese goods that the US was putting 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.840 on their products. So when I was looking at this list, 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.560 the first thing that I noticed, well, when I was 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.480 reading the Google translated version, the first thing I noticed 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.240 was the amount of seafood on this list. And then 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.720 the next day, when I was on Twitter, I saw 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.840 a tweet from Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski on how the 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.560 tariffs could impact the Alaska seafood industry, and the story 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.880 was born. And when you were reporting it and looking 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.160 into this, what struck you or surprised you the most? 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.240 I think what surprised me the most was the sheer 0:01:54.440 --> 0:02:00.600 size of the relationship between the Alaska seafood industry and China. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.840 So close to a billion dollars worth of Alaskan seafood 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.360 goes to China each year, making up almost a third 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.640 of all of the seafood exports from Alaska. And that 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.960 was amazing, and it was a scale that I had 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.160 not anticipated. All Right, well, we're gonna find out more 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.080 about those details from two guests who are based in 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.120 Alaska and are highly knowledgeable about the state seafood industry 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.040 and its importance to the economy there. On the phone 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.519 with us from the state capital of Juno is Alexa Tonkovic. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.600 She's the executive director of the Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.200 It's a partnership between the industry and the state. And 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.040 also on the line we have Ralph Townsend, an economics 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.800 professor at the University of Alaska, Anchorage and director of 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:53.360 the school's Institute of Social and Economic Research. Alexa and Ralph, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.000 thanks for joining us on Benchmark. Thank you happy to 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.480 be here, very pleased to be here to talk about 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.519 this important topic. So first, Alexa, we just heard a 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.880 little bit about background on the seafood industry in Alaska 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.640 from read here. Can you tell us some more about 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.639 the size of Alaska's seafood industry, how much it employs, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.080 how important it is to the state? Absolutely, um, the 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.000 Alaska seafood industry is really a vital pillar of the 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.960 state's economy. In for example, sixteen, we've produced five point 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.440 six billion pounds, an x vessel value of one point 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.760 seven billion, and a first wholesale value of four point 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.160 two billion. It directly employs more workers than any other 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:38.200 private sector industry in Alaska. Sixty thousand people directly employed 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.200 by the industry. Not counting multiplier effects, it's the third 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.480 largest basic sector job creator after oil and gas. In 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:51.000 the visitor industry and looking at national impacts, nationally a 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.560 hundred thousand full time equivalent jobs, five point to billion 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.720 and annual labor income and twelve point eight billion economic output. 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.280 So it's not only important for the state of Alaska, 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:06.080 but I would argue important for the country overall and alexa. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.600 What are the main kinds of fish and seafood that 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.480 come from Alaska's waters. Well, certainly we're well known worldwide 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.240 for things like Alaska salmon, of which there are five 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.680 different species. Were also known for crab king crab certainly 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.960 gets a lot of publicity. Alaska also produces a ton 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.200 of whitefish. The largest fish by volume is Alaska pollock, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.280 which you have probably had in a fish sandwich or 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:35.039 in fish sticks or fish tacos. We produce flatfish, We 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.400 have hall of it, we have black cod, sable fish, 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.200 multiple species of crab cod. It's really there's a lot 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.000 of variety. There's also a lot of more specialty products 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.960 like row scallops, s cucumber, gooey duck. The list kind 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.359 of goes on and on and Ralph, I know that 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.400 you've studied fisheries and seafood for a long long time. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.360 Can you put into context Alaska seafood industry with other 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.320 parts of the or the United States or or the 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.359 rest of the world. Well, in terms of the United States, 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.120 Alaska is far and away the most seafood dependent economy 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.800 in the nation. Uh no state would come close to 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.480 the significance. And Alexa just outlined the size of the 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:21.800 fishing economy in Alaska, and it's it's simply in many 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.480 of the states, fishing is visible, it's something that people 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:30.400 know is there. But in Alaska it is a base 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.640 industry in the economy. So can you tell us about 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.640 how it's processed in other countries like China and then 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.680 sent back to the US or to other countries. Yeah, Well, 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.520 China is our largest trading partner and it's also a 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.039 major reprocessing sector. So a lot of the seafood that 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.080 goes from Alaska to China is say, headed, gutted, frozen, 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.120 and then is subject to further reprocessing in China, turned 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.600 into file AT's turned into a retail product, some kind 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.320 of value you added processing, and then it is sometimes 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.360 consumed in the China market, but it is often consumed 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.760 outside of China, so it's reprocessed in China and then 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.640 re exported either to Japan, to the EU, or back 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.040 to the US. And partly that's just because of the 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.839 processing capacity and the labor that China has um that 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.400 they can provide that many other countries cannot. So, Ralph, 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.320 is this a more recent phenomenon, something that's happened in 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.400 the last few years, or or has it been kind 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.440 of a few decades. How would you how would you 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.680 put that into perspective? The first thing I would know 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.640 it is at a very high level. It's interesting that 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:46.640 China is both the largest importer of fish from the 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.839 US and China is also the largest exporter of fish 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.120 to the US, and that reflects what Alexa was referring to, 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.799 this very large volume of fish that flows to China 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.160 for processing and then is returned all over the world, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.120 but including the United States. I'm not really sure the 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.000 timing of this. This is something that certainly occurred over 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.920 the last two to three decades. It's not something that 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.559 happened overnight, but certainly it's not that is not something 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.120 that would have been the case in the seventies of 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.840 the eighties. I lived in China for a few years 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.800 and there's definitely a large demand for seafood there, and 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.560 uh I could see it myself and understand the relevance 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.960 of the industry. But we we've also just established that, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.640 you know, we've talked about how the seafood industry is 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.320 very big for Alaska. It's it's you know, far bigger 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.520 than anywhere else in the United States. There's the reprocessing 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.960 that goes on. Chinese the biggest importer and exporter of 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.760 the seafood, as you mentioned. And now we have these tariffs, 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.040 like Reed was talking about, we get this you know, 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.680 big list in Chinese of all the products that are 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.640 going to be subject to tariffs, and there's a lot 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.160 of seafood on there. Senator Murkowski is tweeting about it. 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.920 And now just recently we've had some more threats of 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:09.840 tariffs from the Trump administration to put tariffs on incoming 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:15.040 fish from China. So what does this all mean for 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:20.920 the Alaska seafood industry. How is it going to affect things? Well, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.960 I would say that the first point is I don't 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:28.520 think we really know because exactly how these tariffs are 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.400 going to be implemented, both in China and in the 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.400 US is really not clear. I think to to it's 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.160 certainly not clear to me, and some people in the 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.720 industry I've talked with are still very unclear. And as 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.160 we indicated, probably we don't have a solid number, but 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:49.120 probably uh that fish that's coming from Alaska, probably eight 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:52.920 plus percent is going to be processed and re exported. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.240 Right now, China has the equivalent of free trade zones. 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.840 Much of this fish flows in tariff free as long 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.559 as then re exported, and I don't think the details 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.040 of exactly how that arrangement is going to be affected 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.400 by the call for a fiftcent tariff on US fish. 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.360 I don't know if Alexa has a clear if she 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.680 has heard people in the industry that have a clear 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:19.720 sense of it. But the people I've talked to are 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.439 very much we don't really know how this is going 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.640 to affect us yet. I think that's true. I mean, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.200 certainly there are some impacts that we can imagine, we 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.079 don't necessarily know the the scope and size of it. Um. 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.360 I would also just say that you know, there's we're 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.400 now talking about two different sets of tariffs, and the 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.280 tariffs will hit different segments of the industry. So when 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.280 we're talking about the tariffs that China has placed on 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.760 top of US seafood going into the market, that's for 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.240 domestic consumption. So that's going to hit companies that are 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:58.600 really targeting the growing demand in China for imported seafood, 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.560 which is tremendous, and that's going to impact the good 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.000 work that companies have done and the good work that 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.600 as ME has done over a number of years to 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.600 develop a demand for Alaska seafood in China. So that's 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.200 one piece of it. The second piece, then, is the 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.920 proposed ten percent tariffs um the U s TR is 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.600 proposing to place on goods coming back into the US 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.120 from China, and that will really hit the reprocessing sector 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.280 that we've talked about and would would basically be adding 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.400 a tariff on US seafood coming back to US consumers 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:38.120 from China. So ALEXA, with the tariffs, Alaska seafood exports 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.720 have now gotten more expensive to one of its biggest buyers. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.559 What does that mean for Alaskan fisheries and fishermen and 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.000 the people who deal with this every day. Well, I think, 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.640 you know, I think the statement that it's sort of 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.839 too soon to say how it would hit fishermen and processors, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.280 is accurate. Um, Certainly it's causing a lot of confusion. 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:04.040 The tariffs are already causing headaches, some canceled orders, um, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:08.400 some companies rerouting products. You know, longer term, it's hard 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.320 to say. Seafood pricing is so global and there's so 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.360 many factors that impact it that it's it's really hard 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.920 to say from point A to B it will increase 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.200 pricing by this much. Um. Though certainly it could have 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.040 an impact on pricing. You know, it will likely have 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:28.280 an impact on where companies are sending their products and 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.120 whether or not that trickles down to the fisherman. It 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.400 it's really too soon to say at this point. But 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.080 you know, certainly, in the heart of our salmon season 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.960 in Alaska, having uncertainty is is not what anyone wants 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.840 to hear. Ralph, I'm curious your thoughts on this. Have 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:50.040 you ever seen any kind of trade war involving seafood 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.400 in all your years studying the industry, And you also 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.840 mentioned you were attending a conference on global fisheries. Is 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.360 this a hot topic right now? Well, two things, Scott Scott. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.560 I'm only sixty seven years old, and I my entire 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.080 life has been spent in the era in which we 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.040 are lowering tariffs around the world. So this is a 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.599 first in the lifetime for me, and I suspected is 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.240 for most people who are living today. You have to 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.720 go back almost a hundred years to see the kind 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:25.040 of tariff change that this represents. In terms of the 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:30.800 discussion at the meetings I'm currently at, certainly China was discussed, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.559 but it was really in this bigger context of look, 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.200 China is not only a major market for fish because 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:42.199 of its growing population and growing middle class, but also 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:47.319 its role in this as the world's processor of fish 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.200 and the importance that it has in the value chain. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.240 And it was really that long term discussion of China's 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.160 crucial role to the future of seafood around the world, 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.200 rather than the short on impact, which again because of 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.240 as Alexa said, people just don't know exactly how that's 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.640 going to play out. So in light of the recent tariffs, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.360 how feasible would it be for companies to move processing 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:16.840 centers out of the tariff's line of fire. Well, certainly 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.679 a lot of companies are looking at this and are 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.400 sort of weighing different options. You know, there are other 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.920 countries that do processing. Certainly there's some capacity in the US. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.920 Countries like Vietnam and Thailand are are pretty significant reprocessing 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:36.480 centers for seafood. But realistically, there are not too many 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.320 options to replace the capacity in China um for our 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.000 products to be cut and repacked for consumers. We don't 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.440 have that capacity or that labor force in Alaska. And 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.040 then you know, looking at Vietnam and Thailand in places 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.560 like that, shipping costs to those countries are higher than 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.240 to China. And while there is a reprocessing sector, it's 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.240 you know, it's been a little slow to grow and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.920 at this point cannot replace the volume that China does. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:11.079 And Ralph taking a broader perspective on Alaska's economy. Alaska's 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:16.040 of course also known for the energy industry. And if 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.839 this trade war widens, we we've had the President talking 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:23.200 about how he's ready to uh start putting tariffs on 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.040 all of the Chinese imports coming to America. I'm sure 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.240 China would easily ratchet up too. Of American exports go 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.760 to China. Does Alaska's economy stands take an even bigger 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.560 hit if these tariffs start going on onto oil at 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.720 gas Scott, would you mind if I back up and 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.600 make a comment on the previous question about the ability 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.080 to shift, because I think I think the point is 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:53.000 if it became twenty or more expensive to process fish 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:58.400 in China, over time, people would find alternatives, again expanding 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.600 places like Thailand and Vietnam. But the bigger picture is 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.960 China knows that China in the US are in the 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.160 stage of of a trade war potentially where they're saying 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:16.480 I'm willing to incur very big losses myself to retaliate, 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.720 and you know that's not really the long run response, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.480 and the long run China is going to say what's 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.200 in our economic long run interest, and it is not 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:31.120 to impose a tariff on Alaska pollock and Alaskan salmon 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.720 so that that fish goes to Thailand and Vietnam for processing. 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.040 So I think this is very much like the rest 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.120 of the trade discussions we're having. That is, how much 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.680 of what's going on is posturing and what really happens 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.080 in six months or a year is really unclear. And 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.280 I actually from talking to people in the industry, I 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.880 think there's an appreciation of that as well. And what 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.360 about the bigger threat to Alaska's economy if you get 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.240 oil and gas caught up in the trade war too. Well, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.560 there's two aspects. Oil prices of course a determine in 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.640 a world market. It's a world commodity, and it's really 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.920 very difficult to one country to impose attacks on a 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.920 single country's oil exports because you'll simply shift oil markets 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.000 around the world. There could be an issue in Alaska 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.920 because Alaska is trying to build a liquefied national natural 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.520 gas pipeline from the North Slope to a port in 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.640 southern Alaska, and at present a primary partner in that 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.760 is sinopek Uh, the Chinese energy company. And I'm sure 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:43.920 that this concern that ratcheting up of tariffs on natural 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.960 gas in particular from Alaska would severely impact economics of 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.920 that project. All right, Well, this has been a really 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.600 interesting discussion. Thank you for enlightening us about the seafood 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.280 industry in Alaska. Alexa Tonkovic of the Alaska See Food 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.720 Marketing Institute and Ralph Townsend of the University of Alaska, Anchorage, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.439 thanks for being with us on Benchmark. Thank you for 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:14.520 covering this Thanks very much for talking with us. Benchmark 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.840 will be back next week. Until then, you can find 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.120 us on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, our Bloomberg app, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.080 as well as podcast destinations such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.720 or wherever you listen. We'd love it if you took 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.000 the time to rate and review the show so more 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.919 listeners can find us, and you can find us on Twitter, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.560 follow me at scott landman Feed, You are at at 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.840 R E A D E P. And Alex's Alaska Seafood 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:45.720 Marketing Institute is at Alaska Underscore Seat Food. Benchmark is 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.800 produced by tofor Ford. HEAs the head of Bloomberg Podcast 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.240 is Francesca Levy. Thanks for listening, See you next time.