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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Counterpoints, Crystal, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 3: us today.

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Speaker 2: It is my pleasure, and we start today with some fantastic,

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Speaker 2: fantastic news. Emily, you want to share the latest with

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Speaker 2: regard to Ryan and his wife who had a significant

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Speaker 2: surgery yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so.

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Speaker 3: Ryan was actually able to post on AX yesterday update

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Speaker 3: surgery today went very well. Doctors described it as a

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Speaker 3: quote best case scenario. Thank you to everybody for the

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Speaker 3: wild wishes and the prayers. It means a lot, So Crystal,

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Speaker 3: you just said best news. Yeah, I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: fantastic and a huge relief for Ryan.

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Speaker 4: So we're very.

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Speaker 3: Excited for them and continuing to.

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Speaker 4: Hope for the best.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, so he's with her today helping her to recover.

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Speaker 2: But we're really glad to hear that news. We've got

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Speaker 2: a bunch of other world news, domestic political news to

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Speaker 2: get to. Trump making some really significant comments appearing to

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Speaker 2: back down from his trade war against China, so a

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Speaker 2: lot to say there. We also got some numbers from

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Speaker 2: Tesla where their net income was down seventy one percent

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Speaker 2: in the first quarter, so things not going too well

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Speaker 2: for Elon Emily No.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, we had the whole show

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Speaker 3: basically set yesterday and we did it late, but even then,

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump suddenly was talking about how well, maybe the

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Speaker 3: tariffs won't be one hundred and forty five percent.

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Speaker 4: We will get to that in a moment.

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Speaker 3: We have video, we have more updates on how the

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Speaker 3: tariffs are affecting the economy. And Crystal a great guest

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Speaker 3: lined up for today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Eric, and he focuses on unions. He had a

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Speaker 2: really important piece a while back in Jacobin talking about,

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Speaker 2: you know, debucking the Smith that you can just put

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Speaker 2: tariffs on and you're going to end up with manufacturing jobs,

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Speaker 2: and that those are going to be good jobs. You know,

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of the turn of the century, the

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Speaker 2: era that Donald Trump sort of idealizes under William McKinley, etc.

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Speaker 2: Factory jobs were not good jobs. They were dirty, they

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Speaker 2: were dangerous, they were low wage, et cetera. It was

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Speaker 2: really the union movement and a series of sort of

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Speaker 2: historical events as well the US being kind of the

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Speaker 2: only power in the world after World War Two that

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Speaker 2: enabled that dynamic. So we wanted to dig into that

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Speaker 2: with him at a time when you're already starting to

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Speaker 2: see actually manufacturing job losses because of what is Trump

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Speaker 2: has done on tariff. So really excited to talk to Eric.

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Speaker 2: We also, Emily have a bunch of updates.

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Speaker 4: Pete.

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Speaker 2: Hegsett seems to really be flailing, and you know, I

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Speaker 2: rely on you heavily to understand what the hell is

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Speaker 2: going on in this situation to the best that any

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Speaker 2: of us know, because it just seems like a total

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Speaker 2: and complete mess over the Pentagon.

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Speaker 3: And both of us will be relying on Ryan, who

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Speaker 3: will be with us in spirit to some extent because

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Speaker 3: he has a massive new scoop about what's actually going

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Speaker 3: on behind closed doors. So that I have to say,

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Speaker 3: I think provides maybe the best explanation, so everyone should

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Speaker 3: stick around for that we have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he actually told me Emily that he was occupying

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Speaker 2: himself working on that piece to distract him while his

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Speaker 2: wife was in surgery. He was in the waiting room

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Speaker 2: and trying to distract himself to keep from going crazy

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Speaker 2: working on this piece.

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Speaker 5: I forget Ryan.

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Speaker 3: I figured that's what was happening because the piece ran.

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Speaker 4: Well at the hospital. Is classic Ryan, but it's a

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Speaker 4: very important story. We will get to all of that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to do a check in on the Maha

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Speaker 3: movement because there were a couple of pretty interesting developments

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Speaker 3: that just happened yesterday.

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Speaker 4: A new announcement about food dies.

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Speaker 3: But we also have some updates on how the FDA

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Speaker 3: is approaching milk and other important questions. So we are

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Speaker 3: going to go ahead and dip into Maha world for

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Speaker 3: a segment this morning, Chris. So we have some interesting

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Speaker 3: stuff from the Dems too. Rama Manuel went on the

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Speaker 3: I've Had It podcast to sort of unload on his

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Speaker 3: fellow Democrats as he considers a possible twenty twenty eight

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Speaker 3: presidential run.

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Speaker 4: It's so ridiculous to say that, but here we are.

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Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom made new comments and David Hogg continues to

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Speaker 3: get pressed. We have quite an interesting clip of him

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Speaker 3: and a conversation with Major Garrett on CBS News.

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Speaker 4: So a lot to talk about there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, And I know you love those ladies from that.

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Speaker 2: I've had a podcast even looking for a reason to

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Speaker 2: pull some content from them and really uplift them. So

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Speaker 2: I'm excited that we finally got you that chance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do.

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Speaker 3: I have like a barning bias against them based on

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Speaker 3: Bravo World, But anyway.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know they existed until recently. You know who

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Speaker 2: clued me into them was actually Pisco, who you guys

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Speaker 2: had on to talk about immigration. He was like, I

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Speaker 2: think you'd love these ladies. Sure enough, I do love

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Speaker 2: these ladies.

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Speaker 4: That's hilarious. We'll hash this out. I'll clue you in

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Speaker 4: on all of the Bravo drama.

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Speaker 3: But before we do that, we will get to So

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Speaker 3: sixty Minutes having its executive producer, only the third person

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Speaker 3: to ever lead.

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Speaker 4: The show as executive producer. By the way, that's wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a crazy fact, but left the show yesterday

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Speaker 3: with a complaint about lacking editorial independence amid CBS's battle

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Speaker 3: with the Trump administration, or I guess its efforts is

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Speaker 3: going to placate the Trump administration as they do get.

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Speaker 4: Out in court.

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Speaker 3: So some interesting stuff going on behind closed doors there,

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Speaker 3: and it's probably representative of a broader struggle in the

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Speaker 3: media to Crystal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, before we jump in, thank you guys so much.

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Speaker 2: We've been getting a bunch of new premium subscribers. You

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Speaker 2: guys made it possible to have the Friday Show officially

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Speaker 2: locked in, which we're really proud to be able to do.

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Speaker 2: If you can't buy a premium subscription, we totally get it.

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Speaker 2: If you can like, if you can share the podcast

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Speaker 2: in particular, if you could share, if you can leave

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Speaker 2: a review, all of those things really help us.

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Speaker 5: So thank you guys so much for your support.

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Speaker 2: And Emily, you want to go ahead and tell the

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Speaker 2: people what Trump had to say about the trade war yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Let's move to these comments that Donald Trump made at

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Speaker 3: the White House yesterday evening as he was discussing the terraff.

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Speaker 4: So we can go ahead and roll a one here.

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Speaker 6: One hundred and forty five percent is very high, and

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Speaker 6: it won't be that high. Not going to be that high.

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Speaker 6: It got up to that. We were talking about Fenton

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Speaker 6: hal where you know, various elements built it up to

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Speaker 6: one hundred and forty five. No, it won't be anywhere

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Speaker 6: near that high. It'll come down substantially, but it won't

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Speaker 6: be zero. Used to be zero. We were just destroyed.

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Speaker 6: China was taking us for a ride and just not

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Speaker 6: going to have It's not going to happen. We're going

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Speaker 6: to be very good to China, have a great relationship

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Speaker 6: with presidentcy but they would make billions and billions and

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Speaker 6: billions of dollars a year and they would build their

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Speaker 6: military out of the United States and what they made,

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Speaker 6: so that won't happen. But they're going to do very well,

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Speaker 6: and I think they're going to be and I think

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Speaker 6: we're going to live together very happily and ideally work together.

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Speaker 6: So I think it's going to work out very well.

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Speaker 6: But no, it's at one hundred and forty five percent.

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Speaker 6: There will not be anywhere near that number.

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Speaker 3: So that was at about five fifteen in the evening,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to get to this in a moment,

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Speaker 3: but came after Treasury Secretary Scott Bessett reportedly in a

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Speaker 3: private JP Morgan meeting, had been saying something really similar

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Speaker 3: and Chris, so, we have a lot of elements to

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Speaker 3: get to in this black but I want to just

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Speaker 3: camp out on this point quickly and.

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Speaker 4: Get your reaction because this is huge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, because this is what we've gone through

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Speaker 3: the seesaw for the last several weeks about whether the

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Speaker 3: tariffs are this is the best in distinction.

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Speaker 4: What did he say?

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Speaker 3: They are negotiable but not a negotiating tactic. And there's

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump putting it very clearly all on the table.

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Speaker 4: This is just a negotiating.

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Speaker 2: Tactic, right and you know, I'm going to defer to

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Speaker 2: our no bertrand had a good analysis of this, he says,

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Speaker 2: Trump saying the tariffs of China won't be anywhere near

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Speaker 2: as high tonically is probably going to have an even

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Speaker 2: worse impact than the US economy in the short run,

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Speaker 2: because if you import stuff from China, number one, you're

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Speaker 2: going to wait until the terrors come down. You're not

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Speaker 2: gonna be oh yeah, let me pay the highest possible

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Speaker 2: rate right now. So that's going to compound shortages right

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Speaker 2: now in the immediate term, because people are just going

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Speaker 2: to weigh out now that Trump has said this is

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Speaker 2: not going to stay where it is, and he says,

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Speaker 2: you're going to be less motivated to look for any

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Speaker 2: alternatives or establish, certainly in domestic manufacturing. Why would you

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Speaker 2: go through that effort when the President has already told

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Speaker 2: you this is not going to last, which, again he says,

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Speaker 2: is why Trump's approaches anything but fort ychs. He's basically

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Speaker 2: negotiating with himself in public and making the business environment

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Speaker 2: for US companies utterly unpredictable and chaotic. And I think

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Speaker 2: all of that is really well said. Obviously, Waltree is

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Speaker 2: going to be super happy to see him climb down

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Speaker 2: from one hundred and forty five percent. I think the

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Speaker 2: China tears were even technically higher than that at this point.

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Speaker 2: But you get to a certain level where it's just like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're just not trading with China outside of these few

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Speaker 2: exemptions that Trump put into place, which significant, which had

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Speaker 2: to do with you know, a lot of high tech

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Speaker 2: items that we are not going to be producing in

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Speaker 2: the US anytime in the near term. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we've been saying emily from the beginning that of trade

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Speaker 2: war with China, even under the best circumstances, was going

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Speaker 2: to be very difficult for us to win at this

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Speaker 2: point because we are so reliant on them for so

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Speaker 2: many things. And Trump did not set any sort of

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Speaker 2: conditions in which it was even theoretically possible that we

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Speaker 2: were going to prevail in this, because he turned the

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Speaker 2: entire world against us in the midst of you know,

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Speaker 2: launching a trade war against not just China, but the

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Speaker 2: entire world, and he's not doing any of the sort

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Speaker 2: of domestic policy to assist US consumers or US businesses,

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Speaker 2: which were, you know, being slaughtered by these terrorsts, especially

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Speaker 2: small businesses, like there was no way they could survive

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Speaker 2: all of this. So in every way he went about

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Speaker 2: this and just the worst for his own goals, supposed goals,

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Speaker 2: whatever those are, he went about it all in the

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Speaker 2: worst possible way. And now, frankly, it's humiliating that he

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Speaker 2: has to back down already in this very public way

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Speaker 2: when China hasn't budged an inch.

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Speaker 3: Well, his i mean, his strategy was dependent on maintaining

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Speaker 3: this sort of bluff, and we all kind of knew

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Speaker 3: and there were hints of it obviously that this was

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Speaker 3: just I mean, everyone knew that this was a negotiating tactic,

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Speaker 3: but what they didn't know is whether or not he

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Speaker 3: would just say like screw it, keep it out one

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Speaker 3: forty five, like we're just gonna go full send for

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Speaker 3: an indefinite period of time, even if this was always

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Speaker 3: meant to be a negotiating type but what he did

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Speaker 3: just there is both take away his leverage but also

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Speaker 3: without providing certainty for domestic producers. And so it's it's

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Speaker 3: really like, not only is it not being augmented with

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Speaker 3: the sort of policies that you would see domestically, not

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Speaker 3: as not only is it not being augmented with a

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Speaker 3: really coherent so far, with a really coherent set of

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Speaker 3: deals to reshore particular industries, to support particular industries, it's

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Speaker 3: still like it's just as he's received from him right there.

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Speaker 3: It's completely being dominated or defined by what he chooses

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Speaker 3: to say on a daily basis, which is not at

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Speaker 3: all helpful to the project of onshoring.

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Speaker 2: And yes, go ahead, just really quick, just to summarize,

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Speaker 2: you know, in terms of what he and his advisors claimed.

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Speaker 2: There were a variety of goals that were claimed here,

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Speaker 2: right one of them was to get the treasury bond

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Speaker 2: rate down. That has gone in the opposite direction, And

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Speaker 2: I do continue to think that is a significant reason,

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Speaker 2: the fact that it was so clear the world was

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Speaker 2: not fleeing to safety in US bonds or in dollars,

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Speaker 2: they were just fleeing the US all together. And I

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Speaker 2: continue to think that was probably the most important reason

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Speaker 2: why Trump is now backing down from this, because that

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Speaker 2: was so incredibly, like catastrophically existentially disastrous the US economy

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Speaker 2: so fail on the chargery bond rates. Supposedly this was

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Speaker 2: going to bring back manufacturing jobs, where we're going to

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Speaker 2: cover with Eric the way that manufacturing jobs were already

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Speaker 2: taking a massive hit because of this policy. And then

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Speaker 2: the other thing that you alluded to there, Emily is oh,

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Speaker 2: we're going to get all these great deals. Well we

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Speaker 2: have no deals, zero deals. We're at zero deals right now,

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Speaker 2: so you know, none of these purported somewhat contradictory aims.

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Speaker 2: We're actually coming to fruition. And now Trump is you know,

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Speaker 2: Trump is sort of pulling the record saying, okay, we

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Speaker 2: got to we can't keep this up. This is just

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Speaker 2: not going to work out.

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Speaker 3: And let's roll this clip of Harry Enton on CNN

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Speaker 3: as we try to figure out why Donald Trump so

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Speaker 3: as the things that he says. What's sort of the

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Speaker 3: backdrop Harry Anton explaining some of the drama in the

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Speaker 3: stock market actually historical parallel.

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Speaker 4: So let's roll this next clip.

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Speaker 7: A two.

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Speaker 8: The SMP has dropped the most under Trump for any

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Speaker 8: president at this point in their presidency since the SMP

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Speaker 8: five hundred was in fact created back in nineteen hundred

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Speaker 8: and fifty seven.

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Speaker 4: And indeed it is not anywhere.

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Speaker 8: Close, folks, It's not anywhere close.

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Speaker 9: Under Trump.

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Speaker 8: It's dropped get this fourteen percent. The next closest one

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Speaker 8: was George W. Bush back in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 8: a drop of just half that at seven percent. No

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Speaker 8: other elected president at this point in their presidency saw

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Speaker 8: a drop of five percent or more. So Donald Trump

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Speaker 8: is on a planet all by himself, a planet you

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Speaker 8: do not want to be on. The American people don't

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Speaker 8: want to be on chance of a recession. You see,

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Speaker 8: I have four different little metrics. We can look at

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Speaker 8: JP Morgan's sixty percent polymarket fifty seven percent Reuters forty

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Speaker 8: five percent, Goldman Sachs forty five percent. Blame Trump if

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Speaker 8: there's a recession in the next twelve months. Look at

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Speaker 8: this a lot or quite a bit. That's the majority

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Speaker 8: winner right there at fifty two percent, a little or

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Speaker 8: not at all, Perhaps a little bit high, some might

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Speaker 8: say at thirty two percent, but still here, the clear

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Speaker 8: majority of Americans say that if in fact there is

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Speaker 8: recession in the next twelve months, which at this point

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Speaker 8: looks about fifty to fifty, the majority of the American

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Speaker 8: public says that the buck will stop at the White House,

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Speaker 8: stop at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue.

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Speaker 3: So, Crystal, to your point, there's a lot weighing politically

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Speaker 3: on Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: And this idea. As they said when they.

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Speaker 3: Rolled these terraces out, I mean, they had again mixed

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Speaker 3: messaging about how serious the quote short term pain would be.

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Speaker 3: Everyone kind of knew it was very obvious there would

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Speaker 3: be short term pain looking back to Ronald Reagan's presidency

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Speaker 3: and stany recovered by nineteen eighty four from the recession

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Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 4: But that gave them some comfort.

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Speaker 3: And the question is, though, how long they're willing to

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Speaker 3: stomach the short term pain, and if the short term

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Speaker 3: pain is actually reflective of something that is a ship

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Speaker 3: that's not going to be turned around by the time

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Speaker 3: the midterms come, by the time there's another presidential election.

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Speaker 3: Whether or not Donald Trump cares about that as a

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Speaker 3: different question, but the politics of this are going to

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Speaker 3: get pretty rough, and Trump seems to be responding to

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Speaker 3: that too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I just have two questions. One of them is, you know,

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Speaker 2: all the the botchiest of the world, the people, the

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Speaker 2: maga world influencers who were like making name for themselves

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Speaker 2: by being like tariffs now, tariffs forever, this is the

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Speaker 2: greatest economic policy. This is delivering for Main Street over

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Speaker 2: Wall Street and showing the ELI It's like, what's what's

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Speaker 2: the reaction now going to be now that he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're we're just not really going to do that anymore.

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Speaker 2: I guess they'll go back to from the this will

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Speaker 2: create jobs. Now, they'll go back to art of the deal.

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Speaker 2: In the meme that shows them going back and forth.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because it's also like, where does he

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Speaker 3: land on this when he says it's not going to

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Speaker 3: be one hundred and forty five, What.

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Speaker 4: Does that mean?

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Speaker 3: What is it going to be eighty percent? Does it

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Speaker 3: mean one hundred and twenty percent? Like it's just so crazy.

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Speaker 5: Because it's gonna be one hundred and forty four percent, one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred forty four And if it does remain something like

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Speaker 3: one twenty or he changes his mind, I mean he's been,

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Speaker 3: you know, trying to maintain a bluff for a few

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Speaker 3: weeks and then just comes out and says that on

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Speaker 3: a day like yesterday. So it's it's really still very

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Speaker 3: hard to know where this goes.

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Speaker 4: But what we do know is.

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Speaker 3: That he's willing to make deals, and we just don't

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Speaker 3: know where those deals are going to end up.

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Speaker 5: But is anyone willing to make a deal with him

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Speaker 5: at this point?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that was the you got you

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Speaker 2: and Soccer covered this like that the Japan dating that

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Speaker 2: they came away empty handed. That's part of what triggered

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Speaker 2: you know, will market selloff on that particular day, because yeah,

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Speaker 2: the rest of the world is that, like, why would

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Speaker 2: we make a deal with you? You people are crazy and

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Speaker 2: you can't even tell us what you want, Like, even

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Speaker 2: if we want to make a deal, you don't even

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Speaker 2: know what you're doing, So how can we even, you know,

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Speaker 2: settle on some sort of terms here.

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Speaker 3: Nobody knows because it's just Donald Trump and Scott Bessett

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Speaker 3: can go out and make this sort of intellectual case

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Speaker 3: for it and try to put like meat on the

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Speaker 3: bones of the policy that Donald Trump changes when he speaks,

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Speaker 3: you know, just like because he's talking and he's in

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Speaker 3: a question an answer session with reporters and ends up

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Speaker 3: saying something.

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Speaker 4: That you know, maybe he didn't plan this, but that

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Speaker 4: doesn't reassure markets.

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Speaker 3: It's not, you know, and we should get into this

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Speaker 3: crystal because this was really interesting as it was happening yesterday.

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Speaker 3: We can put a three on the screen. This is

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Speaker 3: the CNBC tear Street. Tear Street just about how markets

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Speaker 3: closed yesterday. So DOWD jumps a thousand points Tuesday to

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Speaker 3: snap four day string of losses. That's where things ended up.

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Speaker 3: But as the day was going on, there was some

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Speaker 3: quiet interesting movement. We can put the next element up.

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Speaker 3: This is Joe Eisenthal noticed Scott Bessen gave comments that

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Speaker 3: massively moved the markets earlier to a private JP Morgan

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Speaker 3: event that wasn't open to the public or the media.

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Speaker 4: What he said.

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Speaker 3: What Besson said was that quote the tariff stand off

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Speaker 3: with China is unsustainable and that he expects the situation

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Speaker 3: to de escalate. That's per Bloomberg's description of what he

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Speaker 3: was actually talking about. So we can put that element up.

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Speaker 3: This is the next this is the next element. This

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Speaker 3: is how Bloomberg This was a JP Morgan investor summit

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Speaker 3: here in Washington, DC, is not open to the public,

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Speaker 3: and what Bessant was saying at the investor's summit move

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Speaker 3: markets because when the Bloomberg report came out, it was

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Speaker 3: kind of a preview of what Donald Trump would say

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Speaker 3: later after the closing bell run five PM that they

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Speaker 3: expect to de escalate with China. Charlie Gasparino, this was

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Speaker 3: later in the day as well as around two eighteen PM.

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Speaker 4: And it's the next element, he said.

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Speaker 3: I've been told by a person close to Bessett the

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Speaker 3: reports on his remarks about a trade deal with China

401
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 3: having been imminent overstate what he said. He meant that

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Speaker 3: there's roover talk to de escalation, but much also depends

403
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Speaker 3: on China's willingness to compromise on trade as well. So

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Speaker 3: Crystal just stopping right there with the Charles Gasparino point

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Speaker 3: so Besant says something behind closed doors that is on

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Speaker 3: the same page with what the president says later in

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Speaker 3: the day. But the Treasury tries to clean up, or

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Speaker 3: the administration at least tries to clean up the best

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Speaker 3: remark by talking to Gasparino and trying to downplay what

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Speaker 3: Besant said.

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Speaker 4: That's my assumption.

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Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it was somebody who's in the meeting

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Speaker 3: who's not the administration. I don't know who the source is,

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Speaker 3: but he says it's a person close to Scott Bessant.

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Speaker 3: So I would assume that somebody in the administration, they

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Speaker 3: try to clean it up, and then Trump just comes

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Speaker 3: out a few hours later and it's like, yeah, we're

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Speaker 3: de escalating one forty five.

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Speaker 4: That's a crazy number. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, and yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: And to your point earlier, Emily, like we all know

422
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Speaker 2: that the only reason he climbed down from his original,

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Speaker 2: like the insane original chart of tariffs was because Bessant

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Speaker 2: and Lutnik figured out how to get Peter Navarro away

425
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Speaker 2: from him for a little while to be able to

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Speaker 2: convince him and then type out the tweet in real time,

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Speaker 2: you know, so hey, they were able to get a

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Speaker 2: yer yesterday maybe to today. Peter Navarro is going to

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Speaker 2: have his year and it's going to be a totally

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Speaker 2: different approach. We have no idea but to go back

431
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Speaker 2: to the Scott Bessant comments and why this I think

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Speaker 2: is quite significant is they're framing themselves and their defenders

433
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Speaker 2: are framing themselves as oh, they're looking out for Main Street.

434
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Speaker 2: Here is Scott Bessett giving market moving information to insiders

435
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Speaker 2: at a JP Morgan investor summit who had hours and

436
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Speaker 2: the markets were moving for hours, and people are like,

437
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Speaker 2: why are the markets going Like what is going on?

438
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Speaker 2: Why are the markets going up? And now we know

439
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 2: it's because all the insiders got this information that hey,

440
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Speaker 2: we're backing down on the China piece, and the you know,

441
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Speaker 2: they get to benefit and they get to cash in,

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Speaker 2: and the public gets Charles Gasprino coming out and whatever

443
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 2: his sourcing was. We be like, oh, no, no, that's not

444
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 2: really true. That's not really true. So I mean, it's

445
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,479
Speaker 2: just it reminds very much of the day that Trump

446
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 2: spiked the markets with rolling back, stepping back from his

447
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 2: original Tarff posture and alone and behold Charles schwab Is

448
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 2: in the White House that day and Trump's out there

449
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 2: bragging about how he was able to cash into the

450
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: two point five billion dollars on a single day. So

451
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 2: there have been a lot of people who have benefited

452
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: and accumulated vast resources because of these massive market swings

453
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: that have been wholly engineered by this White House.

454
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 3: I kind of continue to think the tweet, or I

455
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: guess the true social post Trump put out that day,

456
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 3: like all caps It's a good time to buy, was

457
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 3: a cover your ass post knowing that you know they're

458
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,239
Speaker 3: going to be It's hard to prove a lot of

459
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 3: this stuff, but it also just says like it gives

460
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: everyone excuse that.

461
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 4: We were listening to the president.

462
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 3: You know, maybe they had information that wasn't public, but

463
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: also maybe it was just tweet Like that's where you're

464
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 3: able to sort of land on all of it. But

465
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 3: what I mean this is such a there was a possibility,

466
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 3: and I know you and Sager have covered this a lot.

467
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 3: There was a possibility I think for something that was

468
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: upsetting to Wall Street but coherent and did and do

469
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 3: some short term pain, but was I think very clearly

470
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 3: for the sake of long term and where we.

471
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: Are right now. On April twenty third is.

472
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 3: Sort of Trump waving has wand in different directions every

473
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 3: other day, and movie markets and affecting I mean, if

474
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: you think, you know, like the Trump comment is very

475
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 3: trumpy and funny for a second, and then you're like,

476
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 3: oh my gosh. Small businesses who are trying to make

477
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 3: plans around these tariffs just at the whim of what

478
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 3: the President decides to do on a given day, their

479
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 3: livelihoods are affected by it.

480
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, if you're a small business, like, it's

481
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: not just your business, it's your life. Like people put

482
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: their whole like hopes, dreams that you know, lady I've

483
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,959
Speaker 2: talked about with the busy baby business like she leveraged

484
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: her house to be able to expand into Walmart, and

485
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 2: it's all on the line for them. And so for

486
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: this whole thing to be so haphazard and so casual

487
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 2: and with no attention whatsoever to the cruelty that is

488
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: entailed at the heart of this policy with regard to

489
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: workers and with regard to small and medium businesses is

490
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: just you know, it's it is astonishing. It truly is

491
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: astonishing to watch. And now the only question left is

492
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: so I said earlier, I was like, I have two questions.

493
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: One is about what are all the defenders going to

494
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: say now? The other one is about how much damage

495
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: has already been done? Like even if okay, let's say

496
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: he fully backs away and okay, we're not doing this

497
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: anymore and we're just going to go back to more

498
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: or less the status or whatever, Like, how much damage?

499
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: How many businesses have already gone under? How many businesses

500
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: are already so freaked out about whatever the hell he's

501
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: going to say tomorrow or the next week or ninety

502
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: days from now, that they're just like, I'm freezing investment.

503
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: We're already seeing layoffs. We're already seeing huge freezes in

504
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: terms of you know, businesses investing for the future. So

505
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: is that all going to just magically reappear? Are we

506
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: going to have shortages and messed up supply chains for

507
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 2: a long period of time because of this huge disruption

508
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: that is engineered by this administration? You know, I think

509
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: there's probably going to be a lot of fallout even

510
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: from what has already been done. Not to mention the

511
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: way that the world has now significantly moved against the US,

512
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 2: as evidenced by you know, gold going up and the

513
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: dollar weakening against basically every currency, and you know, chargery

514
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: bonds moving the opposite way of what you would expect

515
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: if there's a flight to safety. I think some of

516
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: these things there's no there's no putting the toothpaste back

517
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: in the tube.

518
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: Probably true, And it just doesn't have to That's again

519
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 3: what's so frustrating is it doesn't have to be this way.

520
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 3: Whether or not you sort of come to this question

521
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 3: of protectionism from the left or the right, there's a

522
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: pretty good argument for some targeted tariffs. And again, if

523
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: you're a free trader, you absolutely hate that, but there's

524
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: a pretty good argument for some targeted tariffs, even I

525
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 3: think and Soccer and I think I agree on this.

526
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: There's a decent argument for the ten percent global tariff.

527
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: It's not like the craziest.

528
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 4: Thing in the world, but but it doesn't have to.

529
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: Be done in a way that leaves people stressed every

530
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: single day with no clue what's going to happen next. Like, yes,

531
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 3: the uncertainty I think was an interesting leverage point for

532
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 3: the time leading up to Liberation Day and the immediate

533
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 3: aftermath of Liberation Day, But then what did the administration

534
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: do to actually seal these deals?

535
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 4: With all of these different countries.

536
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 3: What did they do to augment domestic industry that was

537
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: going to be hit so hard by this.

538
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 4: It just none of it had to be this way.

539
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: Even if you support the end goal, maybe you do

540
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: it from the left to the right.

541
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: It just didn't.

542
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 3: This doesn't have to happen like this, and that's really

543
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: sad at the end of the day.

544
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: At the same time, Elon actually waged in yesterday about

545
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 2: the tariffs, and Tesla had their earnings call.

546
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 5: We found out that they're earning.

547
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: I mean that company is in dire streets and we'll

548
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: get to a little bit more of that. But on

549
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: the earnings call, he really did stance himself from Trump's

550
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: tariff policy, saying, listen, is this the policy of the

551
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 2: United of the President of the United States. It's up

552
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: to him. But I've made clear I don't support this direction.

553
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to what he

554
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: had to say.

555
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 10: I just want to size that the tariff decision is

556
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 10: entirely up to the President of the United States. I

557
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 10: will weigh with my advice with the President, which he

558
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 10: will listen to my advice, but then it's up to him.

559
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 10: Of course, to make his decision. I've been on the

560
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 10: recquort many times, is saying that I believe lower tariffs

561
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 10: are generally a good idea or prosperity, but this decision

562
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 10: is pominently up to the elected representative of the people,

563
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 10: being the President of the United States.

564
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: So you know, I'll.

565
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 10: Continue to advocate for lower tariffs rather than higher tariffs,

566
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 10: but that's all I can do.

567
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 2: So the highest profile member of the Trump administration outside

568
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: of Trump himself saying that he does not support the

569
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: direction of the cariffs, not that that's any sort of

570
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 2: a surprise, and he had been sniping at Peter Navarro

571
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: and made clear already his upset with that direction. He

572
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: also said something else very significant, Emily, which is he said,

573
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: starting next month, I'll be allocating far more time to Tesla,

574
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: but also indicated he's going to continue to spend a

575
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: day or two per week on government for as long

576
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: as Trump wants. So you know, it's he's he's kind

577
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: of doges. I don't want to say it's completely ending,

578
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: but it is petering out. And on the one hand,

579
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 2: it has certainly been a complete failure with regard to

580
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: the stated goals of Doge of any sort of efficiency.

581
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: They've definitely made the government less efficient. They have failed

582
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: to cut costs. Government spending is at an all time high.

583
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: But they have done a lot of damage and this

584
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: will actually come up in the block we do on Maha,

585
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: you know, cutting food inspectors so we can no longer

586
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: like regulate milk. Basically, you know, social Security has been

587
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: under assault, and now if you need to call, if

588
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: you need to go to a field office, the line

589
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: is going to be like a mile long, and you're

590
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: going to wait hours to get your issue dealt with.

591
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: So you know, it's been effective at making the government

592
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: work a lot more poorly. And Elon as libertarian and

593
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: someone who also has all of these conflicts of interest

594
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 2: and doesn't want these agencies regulating his businesses, so he

595
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: got a lot out of it. But you know, in

596
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: terms of the publicly stated advertised goals of efficiency and

597
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: cost savings, that has all been a total and complete,

598
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: undeniable failure.

599
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 5: At this point, The.

600
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal This is a eight had a big

601
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: piece on how this all has gone down for Tesla

602
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: as Elon Musk started to get closer and closer to

603
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and you know, it is It was always

604
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: an interesting move because from Musk's the perspective of his portfolio,

605
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: it's more than just Tesla, and Tesla, of course, is

606
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: more than just a car company. A lot of its

607
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: valuation is about the technology as much as the AI technology,

608
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: as much as it is about the cars themselves, and

609
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: that's why it's always been valued so high. But from

610
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: the perspective of his portfolio, becoming part of the Trump

611
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: administration could benefit his other companies in ways that go

612
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: beyond just sort of Tesla's relationship with the government. I mean,

613
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: this is a man who has SpaceX and Neuralink and

614
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 3: Boring Company, and it's we just keep listing them. So

615
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: it was just, you know, if you get really close

616
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: to Donald Trump and you're an electric vehicle company, what

617
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: does that do to the customer base? That in and

618
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: of itself was always.

619
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: Like a huge, huge risk.

620
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 3: Crystal, and I feel like, I'm curious what you make

621
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: of this. I actually feel like that's probably hit the

622
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: sales the most, Like Tesla has become.

623
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: It's a brand.

624
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: It's a brand that is now associated with Donald Trump,

625
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 3: and that's you know, you get roughly half of the country,

626
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: a little less than half the country voting for for Trump.

627
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: That's not a big enough market, especially when you're already

628
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: trying to pull people who are interested in electric.

629
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: Vehicles, right, And the half of the country that support

630
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 2: more or less that supports Trump is the half that

631
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: is much much, much, much much less likely.

632
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 5: To buy evs.

633
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: So you're directly alienating your own customer base, and not

634
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: just here in you know, Europe, in Canada, in China

635
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: and so yes, I think the net incomes line seventy

636
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: one percent like that is an astonishing collapse for Tesla,

637
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: and it I think is not one hundred percent, but

638
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: significantly due to Elon making him such a toxic, divisive figure.

639
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: Because remember, he's not just you know, taking control vast

640
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: swaths of our government. He's meddling in UK politics, he's

641
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: meddling in German politics. He's trying to involve himself in

642
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: all of these countries and they're domestic political life and

643
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: a lot of consumers. Elon has been profoundly unpopular in

644
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: Europe for quite for a while before his popularity plummeted

645
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: here as well, and so yes, the brand is very

646
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: closely associated with him. There are a lot of competitors

647
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: out there. Now you know, if you are in most

648
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: of the world, you can buy a BYD. It appears

649
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: to be a better car, the technology appears to be better,

650
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: it is less expensive. So you have that competition coming

651
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: online at the same time that he becomes such a

652
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: toxic figure. And even here in the US, you know

653
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: the domestic automaker EVS. I happen to own one of

654
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: them at the board and they're good. You know, it's

655
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 2: no longer that they're the only game in town. So

656
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: and because Tesla as a brand has become such a

657
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: sort of polarizing brand, a lot of people are not

658
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: trying to make a political statement with just their vehicle

659
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: drive down the street.

660
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 5: They're not trying. They don't want to.

661
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: Get like dirty looks or judged or like have their

662
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 2: political views on display or whatever just based on the

663
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: car that they're driving. And so that's going to make

664
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: it less appealing as well. And I think it's going

665
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: to be difficult for them to climb out of this

666
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: because you face not only him as a toxic figure

667
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: and so closely aligned with the brand, you also face

668
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: this you know, competitive pressure coming from BYD and you

669
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: know Tesla has a relatively stale inventory. And then another

670
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 2: piece of this that we'll get to in a minute

671
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: is the cyber truck has been one of the biggest

672
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: flops in automotive history.

673
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: Just a total complete flop.

674
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: We cover before that Tesla dealerships are not even taking

675
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: it as like a trade in. So Tesla is not

676
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: taking their own vehicle as a trade in because no

677
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: one wants this thing. They've had to recall almost all

678
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: of them. They've had all kinds of quality issues. It

679
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: looks freakish, you know, it's already. It's already just the

680
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: look of it is going to be divisive. And then

681
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: with the normal Tesla cars, it's like, Okay, maybe you

682
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: got this before, you knew what was going on with

683
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: Elan whatever, before he was on their sigiling on Inauguration Day.

684
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: But with the cyber truck, like you kind of feel like,

685
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: all right, you knew what you were getting with this guy.

686
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: And so it is a very overtly political symbol and

687
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: most people just don't, like they're not looking for that

688
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: in their vehicle.

689
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we could do an entire show on

690
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: how much I despise the cyber truck, but we should

691
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: probably get to the rest of the news here, but

692
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: a nine B up on the screen. This is Joe

693
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: Wisenthal pulling out a quote from the Boomberg article about

694
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: how Trump's Tesla says that Trump's trade war has had

695
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: adverse impacts on Tesla's global supply chain. No surprise there,

696
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 3: And the trade war quote could have a meaningful impact

697
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: on demand in.

698
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 4: The near term.

699
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: Again, no surprise there. Then we can move on to

700
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 3: the next element. This was the one that we just

701
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 3: showed earlier about how bad the quarter was for the

702
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: cyber truck. That is a twenty four percent dip, which

703
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: is about double the dip for the Model Y and

704
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: the other Tesla offerings. And finally, last element in this

705
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: block is a eleven.

706
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: This is a report in the Washington Post.

707
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 3: This is a story about report in the Washington Post

708
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 3: in which Elon Musk has reportedly said he wants to

709
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 3: leave politics because he's tired of quote attacks from the left.

710
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: So Crystal, one of the big questions that we've had

711
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 3: here on the show is the extent to which Elon

712
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: Musk is benefiting both in front of the public and

713
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: behind closed doors. And a lot of that would not

714
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: come from Tesla, but from probably companies were like Starlink

715
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 3: in space that are more closely intertwined with the government,

716
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: and that's a giant unopened question or unanswered question. Jury

717
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: is out on it. We may not know the details

718
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: of that literally for years to come, because a lot

719
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 3: was happening really quickly behind closed.

720
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 4: Doors with DOJ.

721
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: But Tesla obviously is like his signature brand company and

722
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: all of that. I think it'll be, like you said,

723
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: difficult for it to recover from this. I don't think

724
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: it'll be impossible for Doesla to recover, because there is

725
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: a lot of value in the tech itself.

726
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 4: But all that is.

727
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: To say this is for Usk, the Tesla drop is

728
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: probably nothing compared to the benefits he's still reaped by

729
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 3: being so closely intertwined with a Trump administration, or will

730
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 3: continue to, or we'll see.

731
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 4: Those benefits coming down the line.

732
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to make that point quickly, because well,

733
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 3: it's true that Trump is heard in Wall Street and

734
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 3: Elon Musk is part of that, and he has probably

735
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 3: sacrificed a little bit with Tesla here, significantly with Tesla here,

736
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 3: whether it was intentionally or otherwise, those benefits are still

737
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: we don't really know exactly what he's gotten out of this.

738
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right.

739
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 2: And you know, I think Elon is a very ideological force.

740
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: I think it's wrong to think of his aspirations solely

741
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: being I mean, he likes to make money out and

742
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: you know, he's been able to shift some contracts in

743
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: his direction and gut the regulators that were causing him

744
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: problems other businesses whatever. So he gets that out of it, certainly.

745
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: But you know, my sense from the reporting on him

746
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: is that his real tesla is not the apple of

747
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: his eye right now. His real goal is this SpaceX

748
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 2: colonizing Mars, which you know is sort of an insane thing,

749
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 2: like if you know anything about the actual atmosphere on Mars,

750
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 2: et cetera. And so remains to be seen how much

751
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: he is able to shift Pentagon resources and NASA resources

752
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: in his direction for SpaceX to try to accomplish his

753
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: like you know, man on Mars colony dream or whatever

754
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 2: it is that he has in mind. So, like you said,

755
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: a lot of unanswered questions about how much this is

756
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: going to serve Elon's interest in the long term. It's

757
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: also possible that he placed a big bet that it

758
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: would serve his interest in his goal, his main character

759
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: goal of you know, making humans interplanetary and interplanetary civilization,

760
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: and then he ends up just screwing himself because the

761
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: bets don't pay off. That's certainly the possible outcome here

762
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 2: as well.

763
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: We're sending Sager to Mars and he's going with Katy Perry.

764
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 3: That's that's what we're leaving this block.

765
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 5: I think that will heal the world.

766
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 4: He will heal the world, right, Crystal, Let's get to

767
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: the guests.

768
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: Joining us now for a conversation on the way that

769
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 2: Trump's trade war has already hurt manufacturing jobs and what

770
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: it would actually take to make not only more reindustrialization

771
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: in this country, but make those jobs good jobs again.

772
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 5: Is Eric Blank.

773
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: He's an assistant professor at Rutgers and he's also out

774
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: with a terrific new book, highly recommend. Let's put it

775
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: up on the screen. It's called We Are the Union.

776
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: How worker to worker organizing is revitalizing labor and winning

777
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: big and extremely relevant and timely book given and how

778
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: important unions were to building factory jobs into good, well

779
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: paying jobs that were you know, regulated and safety regulations

780
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: and all of those sorts of things. So Eric, great

781
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: to see.

782
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 5: You, welcome.

783
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks for having me on.

784
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, guys, if we could put up on

785
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: the screen.

786
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 5: B two.

787
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: We've had already some indications that because of the chaos

788
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: of Trump's trade war and the way that it's you know,

789
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: unilateral and across the board, we've had some early job losses.

790
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: A paper mill that has been opened for two hundred

791
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: years that is now going to be closed. Could put

792
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: the next one up on the screen. We've got a

793
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: list of a number of different companies Stalantis, Mac Trucks,

794
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 2: Cleveland Cliffs, John Deere, Summitt, Interconnect, Whirlpool, and Tenaco where

795
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: workers have already been laid off. Now, I do want

796
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: to say I think some of this, you know, uh

797
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: Stilantis in particular, I saw some reporting on how they

798
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: just you know, bought a bunch of their shares back,

799
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: like some of these companies are always looking for an

800
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: excuse to layoff workers and blame some other factor. But

801
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: I also think it's fair to say that Trump has

802
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: created a business environment, given that there's tariffs on so

803
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: many of the inputs that are required for manufacturing as well,

804
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 2: that has led to directly to some of these job losses.

805
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: So Eric wanted to get you know, your thoughts on

806
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: not only the impact of these this trade war now

807
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: in the near term, but also more importantly, what would

808
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: it actually take to make sure that we did make

809
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: more things in this country as many people want to,

810
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 2: and not only that that it wouldn't be done just

811
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: by robots or by low paid workers the way that

812
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: it was in the early nineteen hundreds that the era

813
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 2: that Trump really sort of idealizes.

814
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, the first thing to say is that

815
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 11: Trump's actual rollout of these tariffs has been extremely counterproductive,

816
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 11: at least in the short term, for the nominal goal

817
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 11: of increasing manufacturing.

818
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 9: So you give the numbers. I don't need to go

819
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 9: into that more.

820
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 11: Depth, but it is just worth saying that because of

821
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 11: the across the board this and then frankly just because

822
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 11: of the volatility and a no ability of what Trump's

823
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 11: actually going to end up doing, it's hurt the economy

824
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 11: as a whole, and so it's very counterproductive for the

825
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 11: goal of if this is actually the.

826
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 9: Main goal of bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US.

827
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 11: That being said, it's also just worth questioning the basic

828
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 11: premise of Trump's vision insofar as it exists, which is

829
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 11: that you're going to bring back American prosperity just by

830
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 11: bringing back factory jobs. And essentially what this leaves out

831
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 11: is that the reason today we associate factory jobs with

832
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 11: you know, a middle class lifestyle, you know, images of

833
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 11: the nineteen fifties and all that is because there were unions.

834
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 11: Factory jobs were horrible in this country before unions, and

835
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 11: it took the unionization jobs of the nineteen thirties and

836
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,919
Speaker 11: nineteen forties to make them decent jobs. And you don't

837
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 11: need to just look back, you know, to the Gilded Age,

838
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 11: which is what Trump does. You know, Trump's always talking about,

839
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 11: you know, we need to go back to the Gilded Age. Well,

840
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 11: you know, read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair to get

841
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 11: a sense of, you know, how horrible it was to

842
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 11: work in the factories of that era. But you don't

843
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 11: have to go back, you know, the century you go

844
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 11: to understand what kind of jobs would come back if

845
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 11: these factory jobs aren't union jobs. Just like look at

846
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 11: the US South right where Honda workers, for instance, Honda

847
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 11: workers in the US South make less than McDonald's workers

848
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 11: make in Denmark, right, the pay and the security that

849
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 11: we associate with factory jobs in general just don't exist

850
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 11: when you don't have unions.

851
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: And I wanted to actually ask about that tension because

852
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 3: I went back and looked recently at where the jobs

853
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 3: from chips restoring all of the industrial policy basically went

854
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: over the last.

855
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 4: Several years, and they went overwhelmingly to write to work states.

856
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: I mean, if you map them onto a map of

857
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: right to work states, it's like, it's crazy. And it's

858
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 3: not just red states, it's purple states and more Lake

859
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: Arizona places like that, And that speaks to I guess

860
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: I'm curious for your take on this. How it's true

861
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 3: that American labor costs more than labor in Mexico or

862
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: in other parts of the world, and so if you

863
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: want to reshore in a way that actually benefits the

864
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: middle class and doesn't create jobs that pay less than

865
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,760
Speaker 3: the example you just gave a fast food work that.

866
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 4: Has to be coupled with something.

867
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: And the way that I'm asking this question to you

868
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: is we've seen the right really struggle with what to

869
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: do with organized labor and what to do with this

870
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: idea that you know they want jobs that support middle

871
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 3: class families and communities. So what would your advice be,

872
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: or what would your response be, your argument be to

873
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 3: people on the right who say, these are coming in

874
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: to right to work states, we need more right to work,

875
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: we need cheaper labor, how should they be thinking about that?

876
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 11: Well, you know, the first thing to say is that

877
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 11: for a lot of these capital intensive factory jobs, labor

878
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 11: costs are really a marginal part of the overall profitability.

879
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 11: So it's just not the case that what is driving

880
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 11: these companies to Mexico and to China is just that

881
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 11: labor coasts themselves are so large. This is a tiny

882
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 11: fraction of the overall pie. And in fact, a big

883
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 11: reason for the lack of competitivity of America and manufacturing

884
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 11: is just, frankly, the lack of investment in new technology

885
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 11: and the lack of real infrastructure development, the types of

886
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,919
Speaker 11: things that you need government policy to boost. So it's

887
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 11: not the case that the only way or even the

888
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 11: main way to have a more flourishing manufacturing sector is

889
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 11: by keeping wages as low as possible.

890
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 9: We've seen that in the nineteen fifties.

891
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 11: Think about the peak era of the US, when we

892
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 11: had the best manufacturing we've ever had, well that was

893
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 11: when it was entirely unionized. So it's just not the

894
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 11: case that it's necessary precondition. In fact, you can argue

895
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 11: the opposite that oftentimes it's unions because they raise the

896
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 11: wage ceiling of force companies to have to develop more

897
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 11: because they can not getting that just by extracting sort

898
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 11: of superprofits from exploitation. They have to innovate, they have

899
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 11: to do the things that frankly, our competitors and other.

900
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 9: Countries are doing.

901
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: We can go ahead and put your article for Jacobin

902
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: on this topic. You you know, you really make the

903
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: cases say union's not just factories will make America grade.

904
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 2: And you know, I think another piece of this with

905
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: regard to and your answer with regard to, you know,

906
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: labor costs being a comparatively small part of the profitability

907
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: of these companies as well taken. But the other thing

908
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: I think we have to consider is because the US

909
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: has such a barebone social safety net and frankly insane

910
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: healthcare system. It means that you are relying on workers'

911
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: wages to provide everything for them, so you don't have

912
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: a government healthcare system, so that cost is borne somewhe

913
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: by the businesses. You know, housing is extraordinarily expensive, so

914
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 2: if you want to have a prayer of even getting

915
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: an apartment, you're going to have to earn a certain

916
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: wage as well. So it seems to me like the

917
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: social safety net piece of this has also been missing

918
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: because you know, at the time of peak manufacturing post

919
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 2: war manufacturing power in the US, which is somewhere around

920
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three, not only did you have high unionization,

921
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: it was a time period when we were in the

922
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: process of expanding the social safety net through the New

923
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 2: Deal as well.

924
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 11: Yeah, and this is one of the ironies of the

925
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 11: fact that we don't have Medicare for all like we

926
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 11: should in the United States is that it would actually

927
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 11: in many ways benefit most big employers, right because it

928
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 11: would take off these costs that oftentimes they end up

929
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 11: having to bear, and it would you know, socialize them.

930
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 11: So this is a reason for having a strong social

931
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 11: safety net that we don't have. And then just more generally,

932
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 11: I think your point is well taken, which is that

933
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 11: you know, it's not just about the union, it's about, frankly,

934
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 11: what the broader policy environment is to make this stuff happen.

935
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 11: And one of the really bad aspects of the Trump

936
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 11: rollout is that it's not real industrial policy.

937
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,479
Speaker 9: Tariffs. Targeted tariffs can work, right.

938
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 11: Unionization in factories can be boosting productivity, it can be

939
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 11: conducive towards a flourishing manufacturing economy, but it has to

940
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 11: take place in a context of an industrial policy that's

941
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 11: comprehensive that we saw aspects of frankly at its best

942
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 11: in the early Biden domestic agenda, where there really were

943
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 11: real incentives from the government to manufacturer in certain like

944
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 11: key industries. This is the type of thing that you

945
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 11: need to pair unionization, real industrial policy with tariffs. And

946
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 11: in the absence of those other background conditions, including a

947
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 11: stronger welfare state, well then just tariffs on their own

948
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 11: aren't going to deal what Trump is saying they're going

949
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 11: to do.

950
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,479
Speaker 3: And can you talk to us a little bit about

951
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: what you've seen from organized labor. I mean, obviously we've

952
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: seen you know, Sean Fain be sort of in the

953
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 3: media having these conversations in the last couple of weeks.

954
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: There's the big bet from the teamsters over the course

955
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: of the election, and this is, you know, April twenty

956
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 3: twenty five, and here's where we are So what do

957
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 3: you make of how organized labor has approached Trump? Super

958
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: interesting and complicated figure for them, no question about it.

959
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 3: But how have they handled this discussion about tariffs just

960
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: in the last let's say, the last month.

961
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I think I think the UAW is

962
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 11: in a tricky situation because the UAW is very on

963
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 11: the record is being opposed to Trump, went really hard

964
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 11: against Trump, and I think it's to their credit that

965
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 11: they did and they understood the stakes because frankly, Trump,

966
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 11: contrary to all of the rhetoric about him being pro worker,

967
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 11: pro labor, has been the most anti labor president in

968
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 11: US history. It's certainly recent US history. Just the fact

969
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 11: of taking away a million union members right to collective

970
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 11: bargaining overnight through an executive order, this is just, you know,

971
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 11: this is the type of administration we're dealing with. So

972
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 11: on the one hand, the UAW sees that and many

973
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 11: of their own members, because it's not just autoworkers in

974
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 11: the UAW, they represent researchers and the representing graduate students,

975
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 11: are being attacked by the Trump administration. At the same time,

976
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 11: the UAW correctly understands that the free trade you know,

977
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 11: experiment if you want to call it that, for the

978
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 11: last three or four decades has been just a total

979
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 11: disaster for their members. And so in that context, I

980
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 11: think the UAW has threaded the needle pretty well, which

981
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 11: is to oppose the overall Trump agenda while saying, yeah,

982
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 11: targeted tariffs could work. This is frankly different than some

983
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 11: of the other blue collar unions. You know, I would

984
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 11: include the team stars there that have really been completely

985
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 11: uncritical at this point of the administration. I think the

986
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 11: UAW is walking and showing them at the same time.

987
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 9: But it's not easy.

988
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 4: Eric.

989
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you a little bit more specifically

990
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: about your book, which again I highly recommend to people

991
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: where you dig in for you know, this is the

992
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: first book that really does this to these new labor

993
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: organizing movements, whether it's at Amazon and whether it's Starbucks,

994
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: the sort of worker to worker organizing model, and you

995
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 2: see this as a really hopeful direction for the labor movement,

996
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: even as you know, you have Trump decimating the National

997
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: Labor Relations Board and you know, really, just like you said,

998
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: being the most anti union president that we've had in

999
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: modern history. So do you still see even in this context,

1000
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, hopeful developments within the broader labor movement.

1001
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1002
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 11: I mean, look, the labor movement resurgent hasn't just gone

1003
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 11: away now that Trump got elected.

1004
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 9: We've already seen this.

1005
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 11: Federal workers are organizing all across the US and fighting back.

1006
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 11: There's actually been a surgeon membership in the federal workers

1007
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,959
Speaker 11: unions and response to Trump. You know, despite all these sects,

1008
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 11: in many ways, because of them, You've had more workers

1009
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 11: joining the unions in the last three four months than

1010
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 11: joined in the last three or four years combined. So

1011
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 11: in the federal sector, we're seeing that sometimes the boss

1012
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 11: is the best organizers.

1013
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 9: It's old labor saying that's true.

1014
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 11: Sometimes these attacks force people to fight back, and just

1015
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 11: more generally, I would say that even if it's the

1016
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 11: case that a lot of the battles right now are defensive,

1017
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 11: and it's certainly the case, you know, right now we're

1018
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 11: facing an authoritarian takeover. You know, the attacks on federal

1019
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 11: services and unions are really intense. But labor can keep

1020
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 11: up its momentum, and it's starting to if it is

1021
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 11: able to rise to the moment and take a lead

1022
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 11: in defeating these really crucial attacks for all American people.

1023
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 11: You know, it's not just unions. If you destroy federal services,

1024
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 11: how are people going to get their Social Security?

1025
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 9: How are you going to get your medicaid? Right?

1026
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 11: So, these workers are sort of the front edge of

1027
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 11: the spear in fighting for all working people at this point.

1028
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 11: And so if labor is able to win that battle,

1029
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 11: and that's a big if because frankly, most unions are

1030
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 11: at least on the top, extremely risk averse, extremely calcified,

1031
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 11: which is why the energy has come from below. This

1032
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 11: goes back to Sabanda you've thought a lot about, which

1033
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 11: is the teacher strikes in twenty eighteen, you know, starting

1034
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 11: then where the rank and file took the lead, and

1035
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 11: one in you know right to work states, Republican states,

1036
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 11: that show that's possible even under Republican governments, to win

1037
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 11: big if you get the community support. So I think

1038
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 11: that we're going to need to have that energy again

1039
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 11: like we saw in the Red state teacher strikes, and

1040
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 11: that that moment spread to Starbucks, that's spread to Amazon.

1041
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 11: And I think if we're able to defeat Trump around

1042
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 11: these fights right now, that's going to set a huge

1043
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 11: precedent for then going on the offensive to organize the

1044
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 11: Amazons to organize Starbucks, which I think will get their

1045
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 11: first contracts soon.

1046
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 9: There's a lot of potential there.

1047
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 11: There's a lot of young workers who are still angry,

1048
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 11: and there's a lot of anti billionaire sentiment.

1049
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 9: To me, it's actually is.

1050
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 11: Very interesting because if you think about like my normy

1051
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 11: liberal family members, who are you know, now all into

1052
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 11: Bernie and AOC and an anti billionaire. That's the overall

1053
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 11: sentiment of a lot of the base is very anti billionaire.

1054
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 11: And then the question is posed, well, how do you

1055
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 11: beat the billionaires? What's the labor movement? So I think

1056
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 11: there's a lot of political space for continued labor re vitalization.

1057
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 11: It's a question of the unions and if the rank

1058
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 11: and file take advantage.

1059
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 2: Of that moment, Yeah, I think that's that's a great point.

1060
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 2: This was I mean, I guess somewhat of a small gesture,

1061
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: but I was really hardened to see the president of

1062
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: the sheet metal local that kil Maraabergo Garcia was part

1063
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 2: of come out and call out the Trump administration for

1064
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: disappearing him into El Salvador, and I thought, you know,

1065
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 2: we need to see a lot more of that, And

1066
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: you know, it gets into a complicated question of different

1067
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: unions have different views of like, you know, we just

1068
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: focused on our wages and you know, working conditions right

1069
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 2: here in the here and now, or is this a

1070
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 2: broader movement?

1071
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 5: But the way you put it, I think.

1072
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 2: Is very apt that there has been a real sort

1073
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: of radicalization of normy liberal Democrats and you see that

1074
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: in a variety please watching MSNBC, and Nicole Wallace is

1075
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: out here sounding like you know me in twenty sixteen.

1076
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: So it certainly creates an opportunity I think for labor

1077
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: if they can, if they can seize the moment. Eric,

1078
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: tell people where they can follow you and where they

1079
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: can buy your book, which again highly recommend to everybody.

1080
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 9: Yeah. Thanks.

1081
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 11: The best place to follow me is probably at my substack,

1082
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 11: Labor Politics.

1083
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 9: You just go Labor politics dot com. You can sign

1084
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 9: up there and yeah, get a copy of the book

1085
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 9: We Are the Union. You can get it anywhere online

1086
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 9: or in person. Yeah, and again thanks for having me

1087
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 9: on it.

1088
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 11: And I'll just say, if you're out there and you

1089
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 11: want to get involved in fighting background the federal workers,

1090
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 11: you should go to Save Public Services dot com. There's

1091
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 11: a growing movement to support them. And if you are

1092
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 11: a worker who's not in a union, you should organize

1093
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 11: your workplace and the way to do that is you

1094
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 11: go to worker Organizing dot org. Sign up and you'll

1095
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 11: get support for organizing a workplace today.

1096
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 5: Amazing. Thanks Eric, It's always great to see you.

1097
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks for having me on.

1098
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 3: Well defend Stuckert. Pete Hegseeth is still under fire. He

1099
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 3: gave an interview to Fox and Friends. We covered some

1100
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: of it yesterday morning, just as we were reacting in

1101
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: real time as it had recently happened. But there's so

1102
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: much more to get to, including I think a real

1103
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 3: bombshell from Ryan and drop site about what's going on

1104
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 3: behind the scenes at the Pentagon. This report explains a lot,

1105
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 3: but let's start with this clip from Pete HeiG Seth

1106
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 3: on Fox and Friends yesterday morning, trying to defend himself

1107
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 3: amidst all of these firings.

1108
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 12: That's why we've I've fought for the budget that the

1109
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 12: Defense Department requires, and the presidents said, we'll have our

1110
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 12: first trillion dollar budget because my kids, my fourteen year old,

1111
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 12: if he joins, he's going to have a great military,

1112
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 12: he's going to have peace through strength because of the

1113
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 12: historic investments of this president. So no, I haven't blinked

1114
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 12: and I won't blink because this job is too big

1115
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 12: and too important for the American people. And I'm grateful

1116
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 12: for every opportunity the President has given him.

1117
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 6: And I was grateful to see the heg that Seth

1118
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 6: army on the Easter egg roll yesterday in the backdrop

1119
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 6: they are ready to go.

1120
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So Pete HeiG Seth went on Fox and Friends

1121
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 3: to defend himself amidst what we've been covering here. It's

1122
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: a major story, all of these terminations of his very

1123
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: very close staff, people who have been around him for

1124
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: a long time, just in recent days over allegations.

1125
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 4: Of a leak.

1126
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 3: So one of the things we covered here yesterday just

1127
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: to catch up if you didn't see the addition of

1128
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 3: breaking points yesterday, is that Dan Caldwell. Again, this is

1129
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: a very senior advisor to Pete Hegseth, someone who's.

1130
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: Been around him.

1131
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 3: I think, going back to their concern veterans for America days,

1132
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: really long time, Dan is terminated, walked out of the

1133
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: Pentagon along with another guy who's been around heg Seth

1134
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 3: for a long time, pretty high up in the circles

1135
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 3: at the Pentagon these.

1136
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 4: Days, I think the total comes to like.

1137
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 3: Five major departures, one of which Juliot is sort of

1138
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: anti Hegseth, and more and Concamp, but just around Hegseth himself,

1139
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 3: four people who are sort of allies to him have

1140
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: left the Pentagon recently. Caldwell then goes on Tucker Carlson's

1141
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: show says he absolutely did not leak.

1142
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:13,720
Speaker 4: He has no idea if there is.

1143
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: An investigation into a leak. And then Ryan comes out

1144
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 3: at drop site with the story that I think blew

1145
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 3: this wide open yesterday, Crystal. So let's put the next

1146
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 3: element up on the screen. So what Ryan is reporting

1147
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 3: basically is that, I mean, it's the narrative itself, and

1148
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 3: Ryan's writing is so good, but this is just an

1149
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 3: insane story. But what happened basically is that, let me

1150
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 3: summarize it this way. The paranoia about being caught leaking

1151
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 3: at the Pentagon is so strong that people are getting

1152
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 3: falsely accused of leaking because there's such a freak out

1153
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 3: about whether or not anybody is leaking. So think of

1154
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 3: it like this, and just to go through Ryan's story quickly.

1155
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 3: So on April, Star Calling Carol gets a phone call

1156
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 3: and it is from Dan Littman. So Politico reporter Dan Littman,

1157
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 3: who had recently written a story kind of a hit

1158
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 3: piece on Carol, calling him a quote bad boss. I

1159
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 3: don't mean hit piece in necessarily a pejorative way, but

1160
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: it was negative negatives. Yeah, exactly. So Carol texts Dan

1161
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: Caldwell to tell him about this call with Litman. Litman

1162
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 3: had asked if Joe Casper was facing an investigation by

1163
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 3: an IG and he wanted to know if Carol could

1164
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 3: confirm that. So you have a reporter calling someone at

1165
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 3: the Pensagon and saying, hey, do you know about Joe

1166
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 3: Casper being under investigation?

1167
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 4: So he then texts Caldwell being like, what do I

1168
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 4: do with this?

1169
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to be accused of leaking like that

1170
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 3: is the fear, and says I just had a political

1171
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 3: reporter call me and asked a comment on an ongoing

1172
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: IG and criminal in messation the Casper I told him

1173
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 3: no comment. Same reporter that did a hit piece on

1174
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 3: me two weeks ago for getting fired for bad leadership

1175
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: last time around. I feel like I should report this

1176
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 3: call to someone, but not sure who.

1177
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 4: Given the leak and disclosure stuff.

1178
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 3: This is an amazing signal message that Ryan has in

1179
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: the story. Ryan's sourcing here is just incredible. Called Well

1180
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: replies flag it for your PAO, and then Sean Parnell,

1181
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: who does comms at the Pentagon, so that all happens,

1182
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 3: and basically then Carol Caldwell and the deputy chief of

1183
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: Staff Darren Selnik get marched out of the Pentagon and

1184
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 3: subsequently fired and accused of leaking information. So Crystal this

1185
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: story again, it is insane. It is like ripped from

1186
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 3: an episode of Veep. But the takeaway here is they're

1187
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 3: so paranoid about being caught leaking that even when they're

1188
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 3: not leaking, they're getting accused of leaking.

1189
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 4: Even when they're paranoid, when they're trying.

1190
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 3: To cover all of their bases, they're still being in

1191
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 3: case of leaking.

1192
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: So just basically their association with this political reporter and

1193
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: the fact that they surface this created this impression of oh,

1194
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 2: you're leaking, and you're trying to sabotage Joe Casper in particular,

1195
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 2: so he and it also feels like Casper, there's all

1196
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: kinds of stories down about him. At this point, he

1197
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: seems like, you know, a real will just say wild card.

1198
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: Apparently he's in high level meetings bringing up exploits at

1199
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: strip clubs, announcing to everybody that he's just taken a

1200
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: giant shit Like that's the level of leadership that we're

1201
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: talking about from that dude in particular. But it seems

1202
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: like he was also looking for a pretext to fire

1203
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 2: a knife some of these people. So then when they

1204
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: get associated inadvertently with this political reporter and this potential

1205
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 2: leak coming out of the Inspector Generals with regard to

1206
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 2: Joe Casper, he potentially sees this as an opening of like, oh,

1207
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: this is how I'm going to get these guys out

1208
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: of here. So some of this is just complete insanity

1209
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: and paranoia, you know, very poor leadership in terms of

1210
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: Pete hegg Sath clearly like that's just undeniable at this point.

1211
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: Some of it is potentially ideological. That's the piece that

1212
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 2: we don't really know, And it sort of doesn't matter

1213
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 2: whether it's ideological or not, because the end result is

1214
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: that you've got Dan Caldwell out, who was a really

1215
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 2: important voice for you know, restraint with regard to Iran

1216
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 2: and not going along with Israel and what they want

1217
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: the United States to do. So whether or not it's ideological,

1218
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: it has an ideological impact. And then some of this

1219
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: just seems like, you know, people who don't like each

1220
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: other in turf wars and like kind of bureaucratic bullshit

1221
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: run amuck because you have such a weak and ineffectual

1222
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 2: and chaotic leader in the person of Pete Heggsath.

1223
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 3: So Carolyn Levitt was asked about this d yesterday at

1224
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 3: the White House briefing. Let's roll clip not I should

1225
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 3: say she wasn't asked about the drop site story. I

1226
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 3: don't think it had come out by the time the

1227
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 3: briefing happened. But let's take a look at her answers

1228
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 3: to questions about Pete Heigseth.

1229
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 4: I have two.

1230
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 13: Questions, one on the Pentagon and another on the economy.

1231
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 13: You said on Fox News that the entire Pentagon is

1232
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 13: working against Secretary HeiG Sith.

1233
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 5: But the people who were fired were.

1234
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 4: Heikesa's own guy. So how do.

1235
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 13: You square that and what do you say to concerns

1236
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 13: that that's bad management?

1237
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 14: They were Pentagon employees who leaked against their boss to

1238
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 14: news agencies in this room, and it's been clear since

1239
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 14: day one from this administration that we are not going

1240
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 14: to tolerate individuals who leaked to the mainstream media, particularly

1241
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 14: when it comes to sensitive information. And the Secretary of

1242
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 14: Defense is doing a tremendous job, and he is bringing

1243
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 14: monumental change to the Pentagon, and there's a lot of

1244
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 14: people in the city who reject my fumental change, and

1245
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 14: I think, frankly, that's why we've seen a smear campaign

1246
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 14: against the Secretary of Defense since the moment that President

1247
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 14: Trump announced his nomination before the United States Senate. Let

1248
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 14: me reiterate, the President stands strongly behind Secretary Heigseth in

1249
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 14: the change that he is bringing to the Pentagon and

1250
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 14: the results that he's achieved thus far speak for themselves.

1251
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 3: And christ Lo, I want to bring up this New

1252
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 3: York Times rundown that published yesterday because it gets to

1253
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 3: the points you made about Joe Casper, some of the

1254
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 3: allegations about how he conducts himself at the Pentagon, bringing

1255
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 3: up conversations about strip clubs and then.

1256
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 5: The literal shit show.

1257
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: Apparently, this New York Times story has all kinds of

1258
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 3: details from behind the scenes, but Joe Casper, Heike Seth

1259
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 3: has stood behind. And what's very interesting about that is

1260
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 3: the question that I believe that was Dasha Burns just

1261
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 3: asked Caroline Love.

1262
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 4: It's as though there has been.

1263
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 3: A wedge driven between Haigs's own allies side the Pentagon.

1264
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 3: And if you are Pete Heigseth, and I'm just speaking hypothetically,

1265
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 3: you come into the Pentagon hypothetically and sort of charitably

1266
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 3: like say you're you're Pete Hegseth. You have these goals

1267
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 3: that you want to accomplish at the Pentagon. You really

1268
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 3: want to do some reform, whatever that reform is. You

1269
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 3: let's just say, want to bust up a status quo

1270
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 3: that has been around for a long time.

1271
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 4: And it is very hard to disrupt.

1272
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: What's very predictable is that these sort of forces that

1273
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 3: you're trying to reform and disrupt are going to drive

1274
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 3: a wedge between yourself and your allies. Because again we

1275
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 3: talked about this when Heike Seth was first nominated. Basically nobody,

1276
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 3: even in the private sector, has the experience that you

1277
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 3: need to be the Defense secretary because it's.

1278
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 4: Such a vast.

1279
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 3: Job. It's your oversight is just over such a vast

1280
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 3: swath of the economy of the sort of global security apparatus.

1281
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 4: It's a really really difficult job.

1282
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 3: And even if you lad concerned vets uh and you

1283
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 3: know you're a Fox of Friends host, it just there's

1284
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: nothing that can prepare you, whether you're that or you're

1285
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,959
Speaker 3: Jamie Diamond, Like, nothing can prepare you for what's going

1286
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 3: to happen at the Pentagon, let alone if you want

1287
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 3: to reform it. So I think some of this Crystal

1288
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 3: is really like bad faith neo conservative defenders of the

1289
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 3: status quo trying very hard to push Heg Seth out

1290
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 3: and replace him with somebody who's more along the lines

1291
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: of like a Mike Waltz or a Mike Pompeo. So,

1292
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 3: I you know, as as wild as the sort of

1293
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 3: or let's just say, as unorthodox as HeiG Seth is

1294
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 3: as a defense secretary.

1295
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I think some of this.

1296
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 3: Is just like the predictable machinations of the neo conservative

1297
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 3: blob that operates inside of the Pentagon, and it was

1298
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 3: always going to happen, and that's I mean, it's sort

1299
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 3: of It's a very difficult job. And as much as

1300
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: like hag Seth has made some pretty obvious mistakes, signal

1301
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 3: Gate being the clearest man.

1302
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 4: This is this is a mess.

1303
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 3: And I don't know, I don't know what. It doesn't

1304
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: make me feel great about what's happening at the Pentagon.

1305
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 2: That doesn't make you feel great, doesn't make me feel great, Crystal.

1306
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.

1307
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm going back to the first clip where

1308
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,479
Speaker 2: you played, where he's like bragging, my, oh, we're gonna

1309
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 2: have a trillion dollar defense budget. It's like, Okay, where's

1310
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: the grave, where's the big break with the status quo?

1311
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 2: You know, I get it. He talked about DEI and

1312
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: Wokeness a lot, and you know, you wanted.

1313
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: To get rid of like a bunch of those guys,

1314
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like the generals that have

1315
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:42,959
Speaker 3: been along around for a really long time.

1316
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but now we're just like reinflating the budget

1317
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 2: and making it bigger than ever. So I you know,

1318
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm not all that sympathetic to the narrative

1319
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 2: that he really is, that he has really had this

1320
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: grand evolution in terms of his ideology and his really

1321
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 2: pushing in a different direction than what we've seen before

1322
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 2: in terms of fighting wars, you know, endlessly around the world.

1323
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: I just don't think that he I think he is

1324
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: an ambitious guy. I think you know, when it was

1325
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 2: the thing to do to get ahead to be in

1326
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 2: favor of the Iraq war, he did that. When it

1327
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 2: was the thing to do to get ahead to be

1328
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 2: in favor of the Ukraine War, he did that. When

1329
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 2: it was the thing to do to get ahead to

1330
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 2: turn on the Ukraine War, he did that. And now

1331
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 2: he's going to do whatever Trump wants him to do.

1332
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 2: That's how I ultimately.

1333
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 4: He's not going to push back on Trump.

1334
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, we know that.

1335
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he saw it in the Signal

1336
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 2: Gate in the chats that we all got access to.

1337
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 2: And then I don't know if we've covered on the

1338
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: show or not, there is another signal Gate controversy now

1339
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: where he was including his wife and his brother with

1340
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 2: this sensitive information that had been shared with him. We

1341
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: know it was classified because it was shared with him

1342
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: from a general who shared it through the proper classified channels,

1343
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 2: so you know. And the reason to share these things

1344
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: a signal is because you can evade any sort of

1345
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: government transparency. That's the reason they do this. They never

1346
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 2: said they were going to stop using signal and I'm

1347
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 2: sure they've continued to use it routinely, et cetera.

1348
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 5: And you know, there is like.

1349
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 2: A basic level if if you okay, let's let's take

1350
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 2: seriously the idea he's a revolutionary, really wants to change

1351
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 2: the direction of the Pentagon, et cetera, et cetera. Like

1352
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 2: that does mean to your point that you need to

1353
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 2: be even more locked down, competent, you know, efficient, like

1354
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: all of it versus this you know, chaos, paranoia mess

1355
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: that has apparently been fomented at the Pentagon. So if

1356
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 2: you want to do some sort of revolutionary action, you

1357
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 2: better have all of your ducks in a row, because

1358
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 2: of course, the you know, the neocons and the people

1359
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: that are going that are in the entrench status quo

1360
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 2: are going to be coming for you, and you can

1361
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: bet that they are organized.

1362
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 5: So you know, I, I.

1363
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: Personally don't give a lot credence to the narrative about

1364
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 2: his big ideological shift, but even if you do, that

1365
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 2: makes it even more important that he be a hyper

1366
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 2: competent person. And there was never any evidence of that, frankly,

1367
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 2: never any evidence of that. There were mismanagement problems that

1368
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 2: his you know, concerned vets organization. Being a Fox and

1369
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: Friends weekend host like doesn't require you to manage personnel whatsoever.

1370
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 5: And so the the short.

1371
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 2: Falls in terms of his basic level of leadership and

1372
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: competence are even more important if he is trying to

1373
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 2: truly do something different here.

1374
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 3: And let's we can put the last almond on the screen,

1375
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 3: because this gets to the point that you're making about

1376
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 3: to what extent Pete Heike Seth is able or willing

1377
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 3: or interested in reforming the Pentagon. Donald Trump posted on

1378
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 3: True Social yesterday quote, I've just spoken to Prime Minister

1379
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 3: of Israel Bibi and Yahoo relative to numerous subjects, including

1380
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 3: train trade, iran, et cetera.

1381
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 4: The call went very well.

1382
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 3: We are on the same side of every issue.

1383
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 5: Now cool, great, love that Chris issue.

1384
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 3: And this speaks to how serious I guess the tensions

1385
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 3: or the because what is genuinely different or was genuinely

1386
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 3: different about Haig seth Pentagon is that he surrounded himself

1387
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 3: with people like Dan uh. Dan Caldwell is somebody who

1388
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 3: would look at that True Social post and say, this

1389
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 3: is ridiculous.

1390
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 4: We're on the same side of every issue.

1391
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 3: This is a huge problem with American foreign policy and

1392
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 3: for a Republican or Democrat administration frankly to have deep

1393
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 3: skeptics of the US foreign policy establishment, especially as it

1394
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 3: pertains to the Middle East, especially it pertains to Russia

1395
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 3: in such a senior role.

1396
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,799
Speaker 4: That was genuinely.

1397
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 3: Different, and it was you know, whether it would have

1398
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 3: translated into massive substantive differences. I mean, we saw this

1399
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 3: on the signal Gate chat itself when jd Vance pushed

1400
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 3: back a little bit. It was Pete Hedseth who jumped

1401
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 3: in and made the argument on behalf of trump Ism

1402
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 3: basically for the UTI strike. And so whether it would

1403
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 3: have translated down the line into big substantive differences, we

1404
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 3: don't know. The early signs suggested that it wouldn't. But

1405
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 3: this is the sort of like classic Trumpian dilemma or

1406
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,679
Speaker 3: not dilemma. But one of the big questions is whether

1407
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 3: his I guess, stylistic gestures that he's willing to make

1408
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 3: on things like organized labor, with Chavez, Drimer being in

1409
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 3: support of the Proacer, formerly being supported the pro Act,

1410
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 3: all of these different things, do they ever translate into

1411
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 3: sort of substantive or trade war for example, Does he

1412
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 3: end up going like blinking on these tariffs and you know,

1413
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 3: pissing off Wall Street so much that he ends up

1414
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 3: playcating Wall Street like these we just don't you never,

1415
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 3: you never have a good sense of how serious he

1416
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 3: is about actually reforming the status quo. And in this case,

1417
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 3: the potential reformers have been pushed out the door.

1418
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 4: What's three months into the administration?

1419
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean yeah, bottom line, this goes again

1420
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 2: to you know how much Pete Hegseeth really cares about

1421
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 2: going in some different direction. He fired maybe the best

1422
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 2: guy that he had around him on these issues, the

1423
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 2: best voice against war with Iran, One of the best

1424
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 2: was Dan Caldwell, and Pete Hegseth is the guy that

1425
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 2: fired him. So you know, what are we to make

1426
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 2: of how committed he is to a different ideological direction.

1427
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 2: And you know, these things matter because Trump can be

1428
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 2: very impressionable, Yes, you know, you see that certainly in

1429
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 2: the tariff fight, where Bessen and Lutnik realize that they

1430
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 2: if they can get Peter Navarro on the other side

1431
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: of the White House and some other meeting, they can

1432
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 2: come in and they can you know, make their case

1433
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 2: and they can effectuate some sort of action just from

1434
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 2: them being there. And Peter Navarro not being there. So

1435
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 2: that's why it is very consequential who is who is

1436
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: in the room. And to see that tweet from Trump saying, oh,

1437
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 2: We're on the same side of every issue with Israel

1438
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 2: like that, it's just it's just so preposterous. We should

1439
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 2: not be on the same side of every issue of

1440
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 2: any country in the whole world, like the whole idea

1441
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 2: of America versus you have your own interests, right, And

1442
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 2: that's the kind of the polar opposite of what is

1443
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,759
Speaker 2: being conveyed in Sweeten is deeply troubling because obviously Israel

1444
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 2: wants us and has long wanted US in a war

1445
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: with Iran, even though many of even Mike Waltz acknowledged that,

1446
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, it was it would be a risky gambit

1447
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 2: to try to take out Iranian nuclear facilities through military means. So,

1448
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,160
Speaker 2: you know, you have a lot of Americans who realize

1449
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 2: that this would be a bad direction. But that doesn't

1450
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 2: mean that you aren't going to have you know, you

1451
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: aren't going to have a lack of patience for Trump

1452
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:46,560
Speaker 2: to pursue the diplomatic process. And at the end of

1453
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 2: the day, the neocons be able to catch him in

1454
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 2: a moment when you know whoever is a voice of

1455
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 2: reason is on the other side of the of the

1456
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 2: White House and persuade him into taking really dangerous and

1457
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: horrifying action.

1458
01:11:59,520 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1459
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 3: I think your point about the importance of having people

1460
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 3: in the room who are skeptics or kind of heater

1461
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,480
Speaker 3: docs on these questions is really really well taken and important.

1462
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 3: Let's go check in on the MAHA movement, Crystal, because

1463
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 3: there's some developments we should talk about. Yesterday it was

1464
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 3: a pretty big announcement on food die. We have stuff

1465
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 3: to talk about when it comes to milk inspections. Let's

1466
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 3: start with this this clip of Robert F. Kennedy Junior,

1467
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 3: who's obviously Secretary of Health and Human Services. This was

1468
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 3: this was a clip that came out last week. We're

1469
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 3: going to get into the new developments this week. But

1470
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 3: the clip that came out last week when RFK Junior

1471
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,759
Speaker 3: was speaking about autism, we want to start with because

1472
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:51,520
Speaker 3: it went really viral and was was really polarizing, polarized

1473
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 3: had had some polarized reactions that we'll talk about, but

1474
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 3: we could go ahead to roll the clip first. This

1475
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,599
Speaker 3: is RFK Junior speaking on autism last week.

1476
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 7: This is an individual tragedy as well. Autism destroys families.

1477
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 7: More importantly, it destroys our greatest resource, which are our children.

1478
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 7: These are children who should not be who should not

1479
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 7: be suffering like this. These are kids who, many of them,

1480
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 7: were fully functional and regressed because of some environmental exposure

1481
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 7: into autism when they're two years old. And these are

1482
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 7: kids who will never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job,

1483
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 7: they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll

1484
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 7: never go out on a date. Many of them will

1485
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 7: never use a toilet unassisted. And we have to recognize

1486
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 7: we are doing this to our children. I mean, in

1487
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:50,919
Speaker 7: your direction.

1488
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:52,839
Speaker 9: We are going to know by September.

1489
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 7: We've launched a massive u testing and research effort that's

1490
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 7: going to involve hundreds of sciencests from around the world.

1491
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,839
Speaker 7: By September, we will know what has caused the autism

1492
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 7: an epidemic and will be able to eliminate those exposures.

1493
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:13,480
Speaker 3: This comes as news actually broke yesterday.

1494
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 4: This is D two.

1495
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 3: We can put on the screen that this big autism

1496
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 3: study that he is trying to wrap up, I believe

1497
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 3: by August is amassing medical records of many Americans. As

1498
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 3: the CBS headline puts it quote, the new data will

1499
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 3: allow external researchers picked for Kennedy's autism studies to study

1500
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 3: comprehensive patient data with broad coverage of.

1501
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 4: The US population for the first time.

1502
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 3: NIH director doctor j Batcharia said the idea of the

1503
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 3: platform is that the existing data resources are often fragmented

1504
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 3: and difficult to obtain. The NIH itself will often pay

1505
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 3: multiple times for the same data resource. Even data resources

1506
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 3: that are within the federal government are difficult to obtain,

1507
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 3: he said in a presentation to the agency's advisor.

1508
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:58,879
Speaker 4: CBS goes on a note.

1509
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:02,600
Speaker 3: That medication records from pharmacy chains, lab testing and genomics,

1510
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 3: data from patients treated by the Department of Veterans Affairs

1511
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 3: and Indian Health Service, claims from private insurers, and data

1512
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 3: from smart watches and fitness trackers.

1513
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 4: Will all be linked together.

1514
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 3: So Crystal, that's On the one hand, it's sort of like,

1515
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 3: if you're doing these studies, yes, you should be getting

1516
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 3: as much data as you possibly can.

1517
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 4: On the other hand, it sounds like.

1518
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 3: What the government is doing is correlating data that can

1519
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 3: be bought from third parties. So if we're talking about

1520
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 3: smart watches, fitness stuff, there are serious efforts to ban

1521
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: that the government being able to buy that data, because

1522
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 3: then the government is able because I mean, you can

1523
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 3: buy it like a private people can buy that data.

1524
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 3: Should the government be able to buy it is a

1525
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 3: different question, But the government's argument is that, well, if

1526
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 3: you can buy it in the marketplace, why should the

1527
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 3: government be at a disadvantage to sort of have access

1528
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 3: to it. So it's not the clearest cut question in

1529
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 3: the world, but is always creepy.

1530
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're creating a national registry of people with autism, Like,

1531
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: it's very creepy, and then collating all of this data

1532
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: together allegedly. I mean, this is some of what DOGE

1533
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: is doing in other departments as well, putting together this

1534
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,719
Speaker 2: like mass federal government database of every characteristic, every interaction

1535
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 2: you've ever had with the government. And I think people

1536
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 2: are right to be uncomfortable with that, you know, going

1537
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 2: back to RFK Junior's like, if you're autistic, you'll never

1538
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 2: play baseball, you'll never go.

1539
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 5: On a date. The one that's jumped down to meze

1540
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 5: he said, you'll.

1541
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 2: Never pay taxes, Like is that a shot at elon

1542
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 2: Musk not really paying taxes because I'm just saying, I'm like,

1543
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 2: you do know that the most powerful man in government

1544
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 2: outside of Donald Trump is autistic?

1545
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 15: Right?

1546
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 3: Like?

1547
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 5: Are you aware of that?

1548
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 4: Probably?

1549
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 2: You know would I would wager probably significant number of

1550
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 2: the Doge Packer apparatics may also share that diagnosis. So

1551
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 2: I just when you hear comments like that, you're like,

1552
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 2: do you not recognize the very basics of this thing

1553
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 2: that you claim to take such interest in? Because clearly

1554
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:09,560
Speaker 2: it's a broad spectrum of people with many varied capabilities,

1555
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 2: and yes, some are more profoundly impacted than others. So

1556
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 2: it again speaks to me to a just ignorance on

1557
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 2: the basics of a topic that he purports to have

1558
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,680
Speaker 2: a deep interest and you know, supposed expertise in. And

1559
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot that's really concerning about the way that

1560
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 2: he's going about this whole study. I mean, first of all,

1561
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 2: he's already decided he thinks vaccines cause autism. We all

1562
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 2: know that, we also know that that is not the case.

1563
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 2: The primary study that you know, purported to show that

1564
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 2: was thoroughly discredited. This he's got involved in this study.

1565
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 2: This guy David Giery's a vaccine skeptic. He was fine

1566
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 2: for practicing medicine with analycense. He's known for retracted papers

1567
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 2: linking vaccines to autism. So that's the other question is

1568
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 2: if they're basically just like cooking the books to get

1569
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 2: the answer that he believes, whether it's you know, vaccines

1570
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 2: are some sort of other environmental you know, toxin factor.

1571
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 2: And I think it's great to research and learn more

1572
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,839
Speaker 2: and really test the case of whether it is truly

1573
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 2: that there's you know, a greater diagnostic awareness and that's

1574
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 2: why we have a you know, a larger percentage of

1575
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 2: people who are autistic. Is that really true? Is there

1576
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 2: something else going on? But you also can't just discard

1577
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 2: all of the research and the science that has been

1578
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: done before, including research into significant genetic factors. He calls

1579
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 2: autism like an injury, Like it's something specific in the environment,

1580
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 2: whether it's vaccines or toxins that have been done to you.

1581
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 2: But there's tons of research to show like if you

1582
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 2: have a real genetic component, if you have someone else

1583
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 2: in your family who's autistic, you're much more likely to

1584
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 2: yourself be autistic. You can't just ignore that and pretend

1585
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 2: that doesn't exist. So I mean, this is my issue

1586
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 2: with him. I just I think he's dishonest. I think

1587
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 2: he's a crank, and I also think he's incredibly poorly informed,

1588
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 2: as is evidenced by you know him thinking that people

1589
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 2: who are autistic, none of them can play baseball or

1590
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:03,520
Speaker 2: go on a date or use the bathroom by themselves.

1591
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 3: It was so there were some groups that represent the

1592
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 3: interests of people with autism who took issue with what

1593
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 3: he said because of their argument is that it stigmatizes

1594
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 3: people with autism. Yeah, and you know, this is the

1595
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 3: sort of trouble with RFK Junior is similar from my

1596
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 3: perspective also to what happens with HeiG Seth. It's like

1597
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 3: there's there's something really serious that they get right, which

1598
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:40,599
Speaker 3: is these like structural problems with the agencies that they've

1599
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,559
Speaker 3: been tapped to lead and with the culture of the

1600
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 3: industries that the agencies are supposed to oversee. Then the

1601
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 3: problem is those what does that mean in terms of

1602
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 3: like the policy execution. Mass data collection is not my

1603
01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 3: favorite thing, whether it's private companies or the government do

1604
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 3: doing it. So this is Jay Baticharia. I've interviewed him.

1605
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,879
Speaker 3: He's great. I really like Ja bodicharia. But the description

1606
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 3: of this database is definitely troubling. They want to use

1607
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 3: it for more than just research into autism. They want

1608
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 3: to have a pretty broad, comprehensive database that they can

1609
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 3: use to study other health issues. And they're promising protections

1610
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 3: for privacy. I've heard that many times before and deeply

1611
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 3: suspicious of it. While we're actually talking about badicharia, I

1612
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 3: just want to mention the Lefong story from yesterday as well.

1613
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 3: You can go read it on Lee's substack, But basically

1614
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 3: that nih was making Grant's contingent on people not getting

1615
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 3: involved with BDS, like, yeah, you can. You can look

1616
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 3: at the new policy and it has some stuff that

1617
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 3: I fully support about because like my take on this

1618
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 3: is that DEI violates civil rights law and we don't

1619
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 3: have to necessarily agree on that. But they put in

1620
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 3: this poison pill about BDS into this basically new policy,

1621
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 3: saying that you can't be discriminating on the basis of

1622
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 3: race in the name of DEI. But then they toss

1623
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 3: in a description essentially that's that's BDS and compare it

1624
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 3: to racism, and it's just some of the stuff is

1625
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:19,919
Speaker 3: so frustrating.

1626
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 2: I mean, he said he was going to use AHHS

1627
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 2: to combat anti Semitism, like it yeah, whuich he likened

1628
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 2: to like, you know, a greenhouse guest. So yeah, it's

1629
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 2: it's just it's I don't think anyone really asked him. Well,

1630
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 2: I know there were some people who asked him, but

1631
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 2: I don't think that the MAHA movement was looking for

1632
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 2: him to weaponize the HHS in a hyper woke fashion

1633
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:52,280
Speaker 2: to combat this alleged scourge of anti Semitism.

1634
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 5: And you're right.

1635
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 2: I mean, the reason why an RFK junior can rise

1636
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 2: to such prominence is because people recognize, of course they're

1637
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 2: are big issue. There's you know, obviously big issues with

1638
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,360
Speaker 2: our food supply that is making us sick. We obviously

1639
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 2: have a system that is set up to keep people

1640
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 2: chronically ill because that is profitable. I mean, that's really

1641
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,719
Speaker 2: the core of it is. You have, whether it's big

1642
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 2: food or whether it's big pharma, they profit off of

1643
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 2: people being chronically ill. But none of that is actually

1644
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 2: in the analysis of what he is trying to accomplish

1645
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 2: at HHS, Like none of the you know, going after

1646
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 2: making sure you know, whether you want to nationalize big

1647
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 2: farm or whether you want to push for medicare for all,

1648
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 2: to take the profit motive out of these things. None

1649
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 2: of that is really there. And so even you know,

1650
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 2: he's announced this effort, which I support, to get some

1651
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 2: of these food dies which are there is some research

1652
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 2: to suggest can be you know, can can be negatively

1653
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 2: impactful to kids in particular. And so look, if there's

1654
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 2: a question, just yes, take it out. I'm all for

1655
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 2: that absolutely. But even with this, it's like a voluntary program,

1656
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: and if food companies feel like it, whatever, So let's

1657
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 2: go and take a listen. This is D three to

1658
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 2: RFK talking about getting these food dyes out of our

1659
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 2: food supply chain.

1660
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:13,719
Speaker 16: Hey, the FDA is taking action to remove petroleum based

1661
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 16: food dyes from the US food supply and from medications.

1662
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 9: For the last fifty years.

1663
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 16: American children have increasingly been living in a toxic soup

1664
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 16: of synthetic chemicals. The scientific community has conducted a number

1665
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 16: of studies raising concerns about the correlation between petroleum based

1666
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 16: synthetic dyes and several health conditions.

1667
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:42,560
Speaker 7: We are spending as much on mitochondrial disorders like diabetes

1668
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 7: as we spend on our military budget. We can't continue

1669
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,320
Speaker 7: to exist like this. And you know the problem is

1670
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 7: industry is making money. I'm keeping us sick.

1671
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 9: And these are a.

1672
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 7: Broad category, the ones that Marti mentioned like ADHD, neurological

1673
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 7: disorders add ADHD, speech delayed language delay, TICS to red syndrome,

1674
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 7: and arcolepsy, ASD, and autism. All of these are injuries

1675
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 7: that I never heard of when I was a kid.

1676
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 7: They were not part of the nomenclature, They weren't part

1677
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,919
Speaker 7: of the dialogue. There was zero spent in this country

1678
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 7: treating chronic disease when my uncle was president. Today is

1679
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 7: about one point eight trillion dollars annually. Is bankrupting our nation.

1680
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 7: Seventy four percent of American kids cannot qualify for military service.

1681
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:43,120
Speaker 7: How are we going to maintain our global leadership with

1682
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 7: such a sick population. We have all these autoimmune disease,

1683
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 7: these exotic diseases, and again I never heard of juvenile diabetes,

1684
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 7: rheumatoid arthritis, loupis, Crohn's disease, and one hundred others that

1685
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 7: were just unknown when I was a kid.

1686
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 2: And I mean again, it's like part of this is

1687
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: correct about definitely the you know, obesity and chronic illness,

1688
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:09,759
Speaker 2: et cetera, and then part of it is just like complete,

1689
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, ill informed bullshit of these you know, various

1690
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:18,640
Speaker 2: illnesses that he describes again as injuries. It's trying to

1691
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: indicate that these are all, you know, environmentally caused or

1692
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 2: vaccine cause or whatever that he never heard of when

1693
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 2: he was a kid. Well, I mean, you could go

1694
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 2: through each one of them. But some of them it

1695
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 2: was because they used a different word for it. Some

1696
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 2: of them is because, you know, I mean, some of

1697
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 2: these things that he says he never heard of had

1698
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 2: been identified in the late eighteen hundreds, et cetera. But

1699
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 2: you know, I think the effort to get these food

1700
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 2: dies out is a good effort. But we could put

1701
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:44,719
Speaker 2: the next peace up on the screen. Like I said,

1702
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 2: it's completely voluntary to the food companies. And I also

1703
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 2: don't think we should delude ourselves about like this is

1704
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 2: not going to change the health status of Americans. You

1705
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 2: need a much more rev plutionary program that actually attacks

1706
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 2: the central problem, which is the profit motive. And you know,

1707
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 2: they've got the head of the USDA is a freaking

1708
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 2: seed oil lobbyists. So I'm just you know, and at

1709
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 2: the same time, Emily, the other piece of this is

1710
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 2: most of the and that the seed oil lobbyist things

1711
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 2: speaks to the fact that most of the Trump administration

1712
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 2: is running a million miles and the other direction of

1713
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 2: like giving chemical companies and polluters everything they want. And

1714
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:29,719
Speaker 2: Doge has gutted the FDA so they can't even properly

1715
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: regulate our food supply at all. I mean they were

1716
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 2: already incredibly stretched thin, so it was difficult for them

1717
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 2: to be able to, you know, make sure that what

1718
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 2: we eat is safe. But if we put D five

1719
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 2: up on the screen, this is great reporting from lever

1720
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 2: News about industry getting a big win here. The Trump

1721
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 2: administration hid data that allows communities to know about dangerous

1722
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 2: chemical facilities in their midst comes after lobbying from the

1723
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:59,480
Speaker 2: chemical industry and after massive inauguration donations from chemical companies.

1724
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 5: We can put up D six about milk.

1725
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,759
Speaker 2: So they are halting milk quality tests at the FDA

1726
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 2: amid workforce cuts. So thank you Doge for making it.

1727
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 2: And you know, it's not like there's like an avian

1728
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 2: flu that we're worried about passing through a milk supply

1729
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: right now or anything. So this is this is not

1730
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 2: all that you know, I guess this is not all

1731
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 2: that important, making sure that the milk supply is safe

1732
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:25,640
Speaker 2: and sufficient, and then put this last one up on

1733
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 2: the screen. They're also set to cancel tens of millions

1734
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 2: of dollars in grants from the EPA to scientists studying

1735
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,680
Speaker 2: the environmental hazards faced by kids in rural America, the

1736
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,640
Speaker 2: harms of pesticide exposure, and preventing forever chemicals from contaminating

1737
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 2: the food supply. So, you know, I don't know what

1738
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what administration he's talking about when he,

1739
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 2: you know, thinks that we're going to be getting the

1740
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:51,799
Speaker 2: toxins out of the food supply and whatever, because the

1741
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 2: the doge efforts, the overall Trump administration coziness with business

1742
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,200
Speaker 2: has meant that some of the small things that the

1743
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 2: Biden Ministry, small steps that they took with regard to

1744
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 2: forever chemicals in particular, are being rolled back a million

1745
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 2: miles per hour by this administration and making it so

1746
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 2: that we can't even know whether there are toxic chemicals

1747
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 2: anymore in our own communities.

1748
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 3: You know, the Obama administration initially considered RFK Junior to

1749
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,600
Speaker 3: head up the EPA, And this is what's actually and

1750
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:22,639
Speaker 3: by the way, you've seen as.

1751
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 4: Too much of a liability to the Obama administration.

1752
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,640
Speaker 3: Because he's been always kind of on the fringes of

1753
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 3: the left. And that's what's so interesting about slotting him

1754
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 3: into the Trump administration is that you have these sort

1755
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 3: of directionally radical and I mean that in a good

1756
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 3: way radical correct points about how completely corrupted our food

1757
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:50,640
Speaker 3: supply is, how corrupted the government is. And he's surrounded

1758
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 3: by because he's at HHS, which is extremely powerful, but

1759
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 3: it's not in charge of it's not entirely in charge

1760
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 3: of things like agriculture.

1761
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 4: That's where Brooke Rollins, this is your point.

1762
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:06,240
Speaker 3: About seed oil, it is that's where Brooke Rollins comes in,

1763
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 3: somebody who's had really good relationships with the industry there.

1764
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 3: That's where over at the EPA, Lee Zelden is somebody

1765
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 3: who's really opposed to, you know, the broader green agenda.

1766
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 4: And I'm sympathetic to that.

1767
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 3: But if you're RFK Junior, you are now I guess

1768
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 3: your efforts to clean up HHS in the name of

1769
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 3: reforming American government and improving American health from your own

1770
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,800
Speaker 3: vantage point. This is the like fascinating tension and in

1771
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 3: Doge and elon world, it's like a more efficient government.

1772
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 3: But that's like if your goal is a more efficient government,

1773
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 3: if you're a RFK junior, you're not really somebody who's

1774
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:54,640
Speaker 3: historically loved this idea of slashing and burning, because a

1775
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 3: lot of times your argument is in fact that the

1776
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 3: government is understaffed and has been gutted by industry, isn't

1777
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:02,879
Speaker 3: able to perform oversight.

1778
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:07,680
Speaker 4: It is the most bizarre. It is the most bizarre.

1779
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:11,240
Speaker 3: Like marriage in the most bizarre time, and it's I

1780
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 3: guess having the expectedly bizarre effects.

1781
01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess so.

1782
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 2: And you know, he talks a lot about or did

1783
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:21,760
Speaker 2: talk a lot about corruption in these agencies and the

1784
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,680
Speaker 2: way moneyed interests, you know, get to say in all

1785
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:27,720
Speaker 2: of this, I would I'm very comfortable saying this is

1786
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 2: the most corrupt administration in certainly modern American political history.

1787
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:35,439
Speaker 2: There's nothing like you know, Trump saying Okay, you can

1788
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 2: pay a million dollars, you can come tomorrow, Laco, and

1789
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 2: you can make your case directly to me. I'm going

1790
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 2: to set up a shit coin so you can just

1791
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 2: like bribe me and catch in directly. We covered earlier

1792
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 2: all of the allegations of direct insider trading over the

1793
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:51,559
Speaker 2: way that they're moving the markets, and you know, you

1794
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 2: can see it in these moves with oh, we're just

1795
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 2: not going to regulate the food industry anymore because they

1796
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,600
Speaker 2: want that. We're just not going to expose you know,

1797
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: where toxic chemicals are and communities because that's what industry wanted. So,

1798
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 2: you know, he, in his supposed quest against corruption, has

1799
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 2: signed up to be a defender of a wildly like

1800
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 2: historically corrupt administration where you know, everyone is just trying

1801
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 2: to trying to get theirs and certainly Trump and his

1802
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 2: family are trying to cash in in every way that

1803
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 2: they can.

1804
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 3: It'll be interesting to see how RFK Junior responds to

1805
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: some of this stuff. He'll definitely be getting questions about

1806
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:32,360
Speaker 3: it as we go forward. What's happening with agg and EPA,

1807
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 3: So we will.

1808
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 4: Stay tuned for that.

1809
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 3: And meanwhile, christ so let's turn to the Democrats because

1810
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:44,559
Speaker 3: rom Emmanuel went on the I've Had It podcast and

1811
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 3: this comes as David Hogg is facing tough questions over

1812
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 3: not just from the media, by the way, but also

1813
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 3: from Hakeem Jefferyes. I think we have a clip of

1814
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:57,759
Speaker 3: that over his pledge to actually like have a robust

1815
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 3: primary effort against the democratic status quo. Let's take a

1816
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 3: look at this clip. Let's start with this clip of

1817
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 3: Ram and Manuel Rumored, twenty twenty eight presidential candidate on

1818
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,600
Speaker 3: the I've had a podcast.

1819
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 4: This was released yesterday. Take a look.

1820
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,120
Speaker 17: So what have you had it with?

1821
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 8: I would say, we have a series of topics that

1822
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 8: I think sometimes consume in the other topics that don't

1823
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 8: actually get the attention that they should get, And we

1824
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 8: ended up fighting for the wrong things.

1825
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 7: We were really south on kitchen table issues. We weren't

1826
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 7: really good about the family room issues.

1827
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:34,920
Speaker 17: Disagree with you, I disagree with you.

1828
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Okay.

1829
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,160
Speaker 13: The only room we are the only room we do

1830
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 13: really well was the bathroom, and that's the smallest room.

1831
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 17: Such bullshit, that is total bullshit. That is buying into

1832
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 17: the right wing media narrative. And I'm so sick of

1833
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:49,680
Speaker 17: democrats like you selling out and saying this. You know

1834
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 17: who talks about trans people more than anybody. Maga Kamala

1835
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 17: Harris talked about homeownership, she talked about kitchen table issues.

1836
01:32:57,520 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 17: Trump's over there droning on about Hannibal Lecter.

1837
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 4: Are you kidding me.

1838
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:04,600
Speaker 17: This is where the Democrats lose because we're playing the

1839
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:07,519
Speaker 17: game with the rule book. They've writ the rule book

1840
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 17: up and a cramedit down everybody's throat and crows are

1841
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 17: upset because Joe Biden pardoned his said, we kind of

1842
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 17: fucking fight. They're the gender obsessed weirdos, not us. We're

1843
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 17: the ones who fight for social security.

1844
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 4: We fight for Medica.

1845
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 17: And yeah, we're not gonna bully trans people. We're not gonna.

1846
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 9: Fucking do it.

1847
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 5: Do it fine? I mean, I love this lady. I

1848
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 5: don't know you.

1849
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 2: I did not know they existed until like a week ago.

1850
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 2: So Emily, give me, give me the backstory here, And

1851
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:38,200
Speaker 2: you're antipathy towards it because I enjoyed her given it

1852
01:33:38,240 --> 01:33:41,080
Speaker 2: to Rama Manuel, even though my view was like, in

1853
01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 2: a nuance way different from hers, But I just enjoyed

1854
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: her being like, the problem is people like you, ram Emanuel.

1855
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:48,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean that is that was deeply cathartic

1856
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 4: to watch.

1857
01:33:49,280 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 3: And of course, because ram Emanuel is sort of squirming,

1858
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 3: he's like, you also seem to be a wealthy Democrat.

1859
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 4: Why are you yelling at me?

1860
01:33:57,120 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 2: On the podcasts, he thought he was giving her exactly

1861
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 2: the answer, Oh, yes, you're right, the bathroom too much

1862
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 2: and not enough the kitchen table, and she's.

1863
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 5: Like fuck you.

1864
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 2: Basically, I mean the one before I hear they're like

1865
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 2: backstory and what they've been up to. The thing that

1866
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 2: I would say is that the reason that the party

1867
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 2: has become has lost its credibility on kitchen table issues

1868
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 2: is because of people like Rama Manuel. So you don't

1869
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 2: get to now come in here and pretend like, oh,

1870
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 2: you understand and you're the savior of the Democratic Party. No,

1871
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:33,720
Speaker 2: you are what's wrong with the Democratic Party. And she's

1872
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:37,720
Speaker 2: also right that, like, you know, the reason why Republicans

1873
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 2: are successful at or were successful. I don't think they're

1874
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 2: particularly successful at this anymore, but we're successful leading into

1875
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 2: this election of painting Kamala Harris as being, you know,

1876
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:51,879
Speaker 2: just concerned with these sort of like niche, unpopular issues

1877
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 2: is because Democrats don't have a broader narrative of what

1878
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 2: they're fighting for a lah Bernie Sanders and oligarchy where

1879
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:03,040
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, yeah, he's you know, he supports trans rights,

1880
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 2: but no one is going to say that's like the

1881
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,960
Speaker 2: thing the core of everything that he is focused on

1882
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 2: so you know, that's why I say my view is

1883
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 2: like subtly different from hers, because really the problem is

1884
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:20,400
Speaker 2: that the way Republicans were able to successfully paint the

1885
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 2: Democratic Party as being overly concerned with issues that were

1886
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 2: not top of mind priorities for them is people like

1887
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:31,680
Speaker 2: Rob Emmanuel and their abandonment of the working class and

1888
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:35,919
Speaker 2: affirmative alignment of the Democratic Party with corporate interests.

1889
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:38,479
Speaker 3: Well, her point, I mean something that we've covered and

1890
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 3: I think is a helpful point that both you and

1891
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 3: Ryan have made for a long time. It really undermines

1892
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:46,600
Speaker 3: the point she's making that it's the right wing that

1893
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 3: was talking about all of the stuff for a long time.

1894
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:52,480
Speaker 3: Like I don't disagree obviously that the right has exploited

1895
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:56,280
Speaker 3: some like culture war issues that I think are really

1896
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 3: serious and they do it for red beat purposes. Like

1897
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 3: when the r and cl Richmond North of Richmond at

1898
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:05,800
Speaker 3: a debate was that the rn C, I think it was, like,

1899
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:07,559
Speaker 3: I think it was a decision from the RNC.

1900
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 4: To play it.

1901
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 5: I think that's right. I think that's right.

1902
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:11,720
Speaker 2: There certainly was a lot of enthusiasm for the song

1903
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:13,360
Speaker 2: at the time, but.

1904
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,439
Speaker 3: The RNC USUIA is just like so grading in so

1905
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 3: many different ways.

1906
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 4: So I don't disagree with that point.

1907
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 3: But these issues were used as shields by corporate Democrats

1908
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:27,679
Speaker 3: who were actually talking about them disproportionately to distract from

1909
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 3: their oligarchical policies on like labor and families and all

1910
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 3: of that. So that underminds the point she's making that

1911
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 3: is just the crazy right wing people who were talking

1912
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 3: about these things. Actually there was a concerted effort by

1913
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 3: corporate America to embrace things like DEI and ESG to

1914
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:46,120
Speaker 3: shield to.

1915
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:48,160
Speaker 4: Play kate the left.

1916
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:50,720
Speaker 3: And so that's what really pisses me off about that,

1917
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:52,920
Speaker 3: And it pisses me off when Rama Manuel is also

1918
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:56,680
Speaker 3: suddenly coming out in twenty twenty five and acting like

1919
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,680
Speaker 3: it's a really like big point that he's brave for

1920
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 3: making and he can sort of design this presidential run.

1921
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 4: Around like it is stupid and profoundly stupid.

1922
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 2: It Also if he does want to, I mean, I

1923
01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:12,280
Speaker 2: don't really take seriously this whole like he wants to

1924
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 2: run for president or whatever, But him, Gavin Newsom, there's

1925
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:18,720
Speaker 2: a handful of them that are so out of touch

1926
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:20,040
Speaker 2: with where the Democratic base is.

1927
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1928
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 3: Well, and again, like he's someone who who worked for

1929
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 3: Barack Obama and Gavin Newsom is somebody who has not

1930
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,680
Speaker 3: like exactly been kicking the left to the curb. Like

1931
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:33,240
Speaker 3: if they really were good at reading the political wins,

1932
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:35,799
Speaker 3: they would probably be coming to this in a way

1933
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 3: closer to her, to be honest, because the ram Emmanuel

1934
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom approach is getting pilloried on social media. Like

1935
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:45,719
Speaker 3: even Charlie Kirk, who had that conversation with Newsom about

1936
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 3: trance stuff, has come out and been like, oh so

1937
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 3: he was just lying, like the face to face having

1938
01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:53,960
Speaker 3: this great conversation. But Gavin Newsom is now getting hit

1939
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:55,960
Speaker 3: from the left and from the right. He's not making

1940
01:37:56,000 --> 01:37:58,799
Speaker 3: the right happy and he's not making the left happy.

1941
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 3: So if they were actually really adept at reading the

1942
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 3: political win they would sound closer to that. I've had

1943
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:07,600
Speaker 3: it podcast Girls who My Beef with goes back to

1944
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:10,080
Speaker 3: Bravo World. They had a show on Bravo called Sweet

1945
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 3: Home Oklahoma. And we don't even need to open this

1946
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 3: can of worms, but.

1947
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 5: It open it. I want to know what I want

1948
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:17,400
Speaker 5: to know these worms.

1949
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 3: I just I hate, like I just really hate the whole,

1950
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:25,559
Speaker 3: like corporate America, like propping up the hicklib thing.

1951
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 4: It just drives me nuts.

1952
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:31,200
Speaker 3: It just I can't stand it because what I think,

1953
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:36,960
Speaker 3: like genuinely lacks representation in that world is like people

1954
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 3: who aren't who.

1955
01:38:38,240 --> 01:38:39,840
Speaker 4: Are are Hicks but not Libs.

1956
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:42,879
Speaker 3: And so I think corporate America just like soothes itself

1957
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:46,240
Speaker 3: by saying, oh, we checked off the Oklahoma box, but

1958
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 3: they can throw people out there who are utterly unrepresentative

1959
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 3: of probably most of Oklahoma.

1960
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:53,560
Speaker 2: So anyway, so you're judging them for their identity. I

1961
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,360
Speaker 2: got it, for their identity. You wanted a different framing

1962
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:57,519
Speaker 2: of identity politics.

1963
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:04,639
Speaker 3: I want affirmative action for fascist conservative pixs, affirmative action

1964
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:05,640
Speaker 3: for fascists.

1965
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,559
Speaker 2: It's like the same thing that the Trump administration sent

1966
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 2: to Harvard, like you can only only MAGA is allowed

1967
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 2: into your school now, sorry, only MAGA professors heading the

1968
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:16,599
Speaker 2: physics department, et cetera.

1969
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 3: Representation for Curtis Jarvin and academia is DEI worth doing.

1970
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:27,800
Speaker 4: Let's let's get to David Hogg actually.

1971
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 3: Because like we could we have a serious discussion about

1972
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 3: the different point.

1973
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:33,799
Speaker 4: But that's basically the backstory of my being.

1974
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,479
Speaker 2: Okay, your antipathy towards them, Okay, Yes, exactly, but I

1975
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,640
Speaker 2: want I'm enjoying them. I'm enjoying them. I want to

1976
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:40,879
Speaker 2: try to get them on the show.

1977
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:41,960
Speaker 4: The Oliver Anthony.

1978
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 3: They actually kind of connect to it, by the way,

1979
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 3: which is that like the right uses Oliver Anthony and

1980
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,360
Speaker 3: thought like, oh, we finally found someone that we can

1981
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 3: elevate who's like this working class guy. But they didn't

1982
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:57,599
Speaker 3: love it when he started coming out against Republicans either.

1983
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:03,120
Speaker 3: This is actual presentation of how people think, but it's

1984
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 3: never convenient to people who elevate them. So anyway, David Hogg,

1985
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,639
Speaker 3: let's roll this clip of David Hogg tustling with Major

1986
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 3: Garrett on CBS, because Hogg, as we've covered before, is

1987
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 3: now supporting this idea of a fairly robust primary campaign

1988
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:18,720
Speaker 3: against establishment Democrats.

1989
01:40:18,720 --> 01:40:19,880
Speaker 4: So let's roll e too.

1990
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,719
Speaker 18: Let me let you address some social media criticism you've gotten,

1991
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:27,839
Speaker 18: Matt Bennett from the Clinton Gore era. This is insane behavior.

1992
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 18: John Angeloni Polster, most recently for President Biden. Twenty million

1993
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:36,160
Speaker 18: dollars should be spent on swing state legislative races, meeting

1994
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:40,519
Speaker 18: state legislative races, and down ballot, not on this. Steve

1995
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:44,880
Speaker 18: Shale of Florida Democratic strategists, saying the DNC's vice chair

1996
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 18: should be focused on this kind of engagement meeting, engaging

1997
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 18: in places in battleground states where Democrats have lost ground,

1998
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 18: not over which deem in a plus twenty seat should

1999
01:40:58,560 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 18: be primaried.

2000
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 19: And you know, look at the last results of the

2001
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:07,040
Speaker 19: previous election. Those are the purported experts that brought us here.

2002
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 19: Just to say, it's not personal, right, I don't take

2003
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,600
Speaker 19: those attacks personally in this regard. This is a strategic disagreement.

2004
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:15,000
Speaker 19: And I want to be clear. All this money that

2005
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:18,160
Speaker 19: we're raising is not just only being spent on primaries

2006
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:19,640
Speaker 19: by any means. That is the story of a lot

2007
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:21,719
Speaker 19: of journalists and media run with We.

2008
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:23,759
Speaker 18: Are working to spend it on, We're.

2009
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 19: Also going to be spending it on frontline seats where

2010
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 19: great young people are running right if they are the

2011
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:31,920
Speaker 19: Democratic nominee, to make sure we're bringing in fresh faces

2012
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:34,400
Speaker 19: to Congress right now. We talk about diversity all the

2013
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:35,840
Speaker 19: time in Congress. One of the things that we don't

2014
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:38,960
Speaker 19: talk about as much in regard to that is age. Currently,

2015
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:41,600
Speaker 19: if we have the same number of twenty five to

2016
01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 19: thirty year olds in Congress as we do proportionally to

2017
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 19: the population, we would have over forty people under the

2018
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:48,720
Speaker 19: age of thirty in Congress. And I don't know if

2019
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 19: you've looked at Congress recently, we have one that is

2020
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 19: under the age of thirty. That is not good for

2021
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,240
Speaker 19: the future of the Democratic Party. Is this just out

2022
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:56,719
Speaker 19: with the old and in with the new. I would

2023
01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:58,840
Speaker 19: say no, this is out with the ineffective and in

2024
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:01,439
Speaker 19: with the effective, because we need members who are ready

2025
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 19: to meet this moment to fight back against Donald Trump.

2026
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:06,160
Speaker 19: And what that looks like are people like Senator Van

2027
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:08,360
Speaker 19: Holling who are literally going to El Salvador to say

2028
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 19: this man needs to come back. It looks like people

2029
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:13,280
Speaker 19: like Corey Booker, who mind you did primary somebody to

2030
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:15,559
Speaker 19: get to that position. It looks like people in many

2031
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 19: ways like a king Jeffries who primaried multiple people to

2032
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:21,320
Speaker 19: get to that position. Right, this is a healthy process

2033
01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 19: for our party and I think we should have an

2034
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,719
Speaker 19: embrace of that when it doesn't risk us losing the House.

2035
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Gavin Newsom is also giving more interviews on his

2036
01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 3: attempt to write the ship of the Democratic Party.

2037
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:36,760
Speaker 4: We can put the next element up on the screen.

2038
01:42:36,800 --> 01:42:37,799
Speaker 4: This is E three.

2039
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:40,120
Speaker 3: I gave an interview to The Hill yesterday where he said,

2040
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:42,799
Speaker 3: we have not done a forensic of what just went wrong, period,

2041
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 3: full stop.

2042
01:42:43,320 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 4: I don't think it, I know it. I mean to

2043
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 4: the extent that I'm marginally part of his party.

2044
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 3: I remempresent the state larger than twenty one state populations combined,

2045
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 3: and I can assure you there's not been a party

2046
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:54,400
Speaker 3: discussion that I'm aware of that has included the state

2047
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:56,800
Speaker 3: of California. I don't know what the party is, he said.

2048
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 3: I'm still struggling with that, Gavin. Maybe people aren't considering

2049
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 3: the state of California as prominently as you want them

2050
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 3: to because the state of California is an utter disrepair.

2051
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 4: Maybe that has something to do with it.

2052
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 3: Well done, Gavin, on that we can move to the

2053
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:16,520
Speaker 3: next element, as well as another comment from him about

2054
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:20,599
Speaker 3: when he had Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on. He says,

2055
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:23,479
Speaker 3: what I feel was exactly to me exhibit a of

2056
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:25,080
Speaker 3: what I feel is wrong right now with my party,

2057
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:29,880
Speaker 3: an unwillingness to even engage in platform to listen, and

2058
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:31,840
Speaker 3: so I'm testing that at the same time I'm being

2059
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:34,679
Speaker 3: tested by it because the reaction has been a little

2060
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,360
Speaker 3: more bumpy than I anticipated.

2061
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:40,760
Speaker 5: And you know, this is such a bullshit from him.

2062
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:44,200
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's such because the vast majority of people who

2063
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 2: were who were unhappy, myself included. With the Charlie Kirk

2064
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 2: and the Steve Bannon interviews, it wasn't because he platformed them.

2065
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:57,000
Speaker 2: It's because you, like it was a softball interview. You

2066
01:43:57,240 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 2: elevated them, You made them look good, even as they

2067
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 2: were the whole time taking jabs at him. I mean,

2068
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk from the outset was like, oh, you don't lunch,

2069
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:07,800
Speaker 2: your son stay home from school to meet me? Why

2070
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 2: not you close the schools during COVID? You know, the

2071
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 2: whole thing with Steve Bannon. I think it was I

2072
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 2: can't remember who it was that said the Sun. Twitter

2073
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 2: was like Gavin Newsom being like, oh, you're amazing and

2074
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,759
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, and Steve Bannon being like you're a demon.

2075
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:23,599
Speaker 2: So the problem wasn't platforming them. It was Gavin Newsom.

2076
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:25,800
Speaker 2: We know you're actually good at debating. We saw you

2077
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:29,880
Speaker 2: do it with Ron DeSantis very effectively. Make the case

2078
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:34,599
Speaker 2: for your principles, make the case for like a liberal view,

2079
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, an appealing democratic party. They used you on

2080
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 2: your own platform to further their ideology. So yeah, of

2081
01:44:45,400 --> 01:44:47,479
Speaker 2: course the Democratic base is not going to be psyched

2082
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:51,040
Speaker 2: about what you were doing there. And you know, also

2083
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:55,000
Speaker 2: it was not like it was just Democratic elites or

2084
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:58,120
Speaker 2: influencers online or whatever. Look at how he's faring in

2085
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:00,000
Speaker 2: these early who do you want as the next time

2086
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 2: Democratic leader? Like the Democratic base was disgusted by this

2087
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 2: approach because there truly is and I think you see

2088
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Chris van Holland, and you see Maxwell Frost, you see

2089
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 2: other Democrats who I think have been coming around to Okay,

2090
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:19,080
Speaker 2: we got to do something, We've got to be more aggressive,

2091
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:20,759
Speaker 2: we got to use the tools that we have, etc.

2092
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 2: But that has been led by a base that has

2093
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 2: been utterly disgusted with the failures of people like Gavin

2094
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 2: Newsom to put up a fight who were much more inclined,

2095
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:33,720
Speaker 2: whose instincts were all in the direction of let me

2096
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 2: just lay down and capitulate. And with Gavin Newsome in particular,

2097
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:40,040
Speaker 2: like I know where it comes from. It's because he's

2098
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:42,920
Speaker 2: so close with all of these Silicon Valley donors who

2099
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 2: are all super jealous of the you know, Mark Andrieson's

2100
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 2: and the Elon Musk and whatever of the world who

2101
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 2: jumped on the other side, and so they're not getting

2102
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:55,519
Speaker 2: their goodies now because they picked the wrong team. And

2103
01:45:55,880 --> 01:45:59,439
Speaker 2: that's who he that's who has his ear and why

2104
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:04,840
Speaker 2: he so profoundly misad this political moment in terms of

2105
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:06,320
Speaker 2: what the Democratic base wants.

2106
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:07,879
Speaker 4: Huh, that's really interesting.

2107
01:46:08,360 --> 01:46:10,800
Speaker 3: Let's roll this clip of Hakim Jeffreys responding to the

2108
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:16,160
Speaker 3: Hog aligned efforts to potentially primary some candidates, which were

2109
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:19,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I think similarly tone duff, though not unpredictably

2110
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:20,080
Speaker 3: tone duff.

2111
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:21,040
Speaker 4: So let's roll the club.

2112
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 15: Well, I look forward to standing behind every single Democratic incumbent,

2113
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:28,120
Speaker 15: from the most progressive to the most centrist, in all

2114
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:31,760
Speaker 15: points in between. Primaries are a fact of life. But

2115
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:34,920
Speaker 15: here's the thing. I'm going to really focus on trying

2116
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:39,599
Speaker 15: to defeat Republican incumbents so we can take back control

2117
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,120
Speaker 15: of the House of Representatives and begin the process of

2118
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 15: ending this national nightmare that's being visited upon us by

2119
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 15: far right extremism.

2120
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:51,720
Speaker 3: So, I mean, that's his job, Crystal. He's not going

2121
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:53,760
Speaker 3: to come out and be like, yeah, we got some

2122
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 3: old people we want to just give the boot.

2123
01:46:56,720 --> 01:47:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, listen, if he actually holds to that. That

2124
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 2: would be an improvement because in the past, Yeah, in

2125
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:07,679
Speaker 2: the past, the Democratic Party has yes stood behind their

2126
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:11,960
Speaker 2: like corporate aligned members. But if you know, if a

2127
01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:16,200
Speaker 2: Jamal Bowman or Corey Bush orra Shidah Hlib gets primaried,

2128
01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 2: they're good with that.

2129
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:18,559
Speaker 5: They're good with that.

2130
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 2: So you know, if he actually listen, I understand if

2131
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:25,679
Speaker 2: you are the you know, you're the House majority leader,

2132
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 2: and these are your people, and you're just going to

2133
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 2: uniformly back whoever the incumbent Democrat is. I mean, I

2134
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 2: don't support that, but at least, you know, that's a

2135
01:47:35,000 --> 01:47:39,040
Speaker 2: principle of neutrality ideologically, but that has not historically been

2136
01:47:39,080 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 2: the case within the Democratic Party. And so that's what

2137
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:44,559
Speaker 2: they're really upset about with regard to David Hogg is.

2138
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:46,800
Speaker 2: They're worried that, you know, he is going to be

2139
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,800
Speaker 2: on the side of you know, people who are more progressive,

2140
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:54,400
Speaker 2: who are even outside of the ideological valance, who just

2141
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:57,760
Speaker 2: you know, actually understand that what they're up against, that

2142
01:47:57,760 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 2: they're up against this authoritarian takeover, that the stakes are

2143
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:03,280
Speaker 2: quite high, that they need to be visible, that they

2144
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 2: understand social media, and you know, I was actually a

2145
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:11,040
Speaker 2: little bit hopeful about David Hogg coming into this position.

2146
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:14,639
Speaker 2: I argued with Soccer on the show about this simply

2147
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 2: because he is younger and he does at least understand

2148
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:22,760
Speaker 2: the current media ecosystem, and that is something that is

2149
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:26,160
Speaker 2: sorely lacking within the Democratic Party. And so I think

2150
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:28,160
Speaker 2: that it has already borne out that to have him

2151
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 2: as DNC vice here and be like, yeah, if you

2152
01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 2: are a weak and ineffective Democrat who's been around too long,

2153
01:48:33,160 --> 01:48:34,680
Speaker 2: We're going to come for you. I mean to me,

2154
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,960
Speaker 2: that is an extraordinarily like positive development that I think

2155
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:42,400
Speaker 2: will be wildly supported by the Democratic base at this point,

2156
01:48:42,400 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 2: which really has Eric Blanc was saying this too early

2157
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:48,599
Speaker 2: in our interview, really has become much more radicalized in

2158
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:52,040
Speaker 2: this Trump era and much more disenchanted with a lot

2159
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:53,240
Speaker 2: of Democratic leadership.

2160
01:48:53,479 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you were totally vindicated in that about

2161
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:01,400
Speaker 3: David Hogg, and I think I was pretty skeptical of

2162
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:03,720
Speaker 3: it just and maybe I'll be vindicated in that way too,

2163
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:05,639
Speaker 3: in like a cultural sense. I don't know that Hog

2164
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:07,880
Speaker 3: is right, but this is I think probably outweighs that

2165
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 3: to be honest, like coming out and saying no, you

2166
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:13,759
Speaker 3: have to put the fear of God in the Democratic

2167
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:16,920
Speaker 3: Party's establishment, and they just haven't had that. This is

2168
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:20,919
Speaker 3: very like Mitch McConnell versus Ted Cruz circle, like twenty fourteen,

2169
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 3: And it's kind of what the Democrats need to be honest,

2170
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:25,639
Speaker 3: because there's been a lot of going along to get along.

2171
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:27,599
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you have to burn the party down,

2172
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 3: but you have to threaten to burn the party down

2173
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:34,000
Speaker 3: otherwise you don't get anything. Now, you don't negotiate with

2174
01:49:34,040 --> 01:49:37,880
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, like Donald Trump on tariffs, but you can,

2175
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:41,880
Speaker 3: you know, have some measure of like serious like it

2176
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:45,639
Speaker 3: just mounts a serious threat otherwise you don't get taken seriously.

2177
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:48,000
Speaker 3: So I think that argument about howg has been vindicated

2178
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 3: so far and Crystal, this is just, I mean, genuinely

2179
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:56,280
Speaker 3: a very difficult problem for Democrats to solve on the

2180
01:49:56,280 --> 01:50:00,960
Speaker 3: cultural front because the people like Rama Manuel and Gavin Newsom,

2181
01:50:02,160 --> 01:50:06,000
Speaker 3: they're the ones who were happy to use these issues

2182
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:07,599
Speaker 3: as shields and.

2183
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:08,360
Speaker 4: Now they're happy.

2184
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:10,880
Speaker 3: You know that they don't believe anything because just as

2185
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:12,840
Speaker 3: quickly as they embraced all of this, and you have

2186
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom on tape waxing, you know, sanctemonious about the

2187
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,479
Speaker 3: Latin X community just as quickly as he did that.

2188
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:21,719
Speaker 3: He's literally saying no, I would never use that word.

2189
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:24,600
Speaker 3: So that's how you know, he believes literally nothing. And

2190
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:28,519
Speaker 3: they were using these issues all along as like to

2191
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 3: they were exploiting these issues all along as like shields,

2192
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:34,800
Speaker 3: and they're not willing to go along with the like

2193
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 3: genuine anti oligarchy policies. And that's the crossroads that, as

2194
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:41,920
Speaker 3: I see it at least, is really difficult for Democrats.

2195
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:44,800
Speaker 3: By the way, what was really difficult for Republicans is

2196
01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:48,719
Speaker 3: the Tea Party base was actually more similar to Occupy

2197
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:50,320
Speaker 3: Wall Street than anybody.

2198
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:50,599
Speaker 4: Wanted to admit.

2199
01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:53,760
Speaker 3: And they never were like they were willing to like

2200
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:56,800
Speaker 3: sort of do these cultural signifiers like we need term

2201
01:50:56,920 --> 01:50:59,800
Speaker 3: limits and we need to like screw Mitch McConnell, but

2202
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:03,479
Speaker 3: not until Trump came along, and even to this day

2203
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 3: with Donald Trump in office, they're not really willing to

2204
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:09,519
Speaker 3: wrap their arms fully around the policy agenda that a

2205
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:11,320
Speaker 3: lot of their working class voters would want them to.

2206
01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:14,639
Speaker 3: And that's sort of that's the impasse that Democrats find

2207
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:15,360
Speaker 3: themselves at too.

2208
01:51:15,880 --> 01:51:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean liberal elites and the rama manualsives did

2209
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:22,400
Speaker 2: virtue signaling and on the Republican side they do vice

2210
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 2: signaling like that's but it's functions the same, it's the

2211
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:28,080
Speaker 2: same function. You know, we were talking about Pete Hegseth

2212
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:30,920
Speaker 2: earlier and it's like he can, you know, talk all

2213
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:34,280
Speaker 2: about DEI and make people feel like there's something probationary

2214
01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 2: going on at the Pentagon I. Meanwhile, he's like, oh,

2215
01:51:36,479 --> 01:51:38,760
Speaker 2: and we got a trillion dollar budget, so yeah, it's

2216
01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 2: going to be the biggest military budget ever in the

2217
01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 2: history of the world. So you know, this was used

2218
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 2: as a trojan horse also for a lot of the

2219
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 2: like dose agenda of completely defenestrating the ability to regulate

2220
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 2: corporate America. You know, if you just say like, oh,

2221
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:00,840
Speaker 2: Conservats are being debanked or cancel culture DEI wokeness enough

2222
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,439
Speaker 2: times they felt like they could smuggle in this pro

2223
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:07,800
Speaker 2: oligarch agenda. And so you know, at this point, the

2224
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 2: wing of the party that has most stepped up to

2225
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:12,679
Speaker 2: fight has been the left, or at least left liberals.

2226
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:15,719
Speaker 2: Bernie and AOC really set the mark when I watched

2227
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:19,280
Speaker 2: MSNBC and you got Nicole Wallace out there like they're

2228
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:21,320
Speaker 2: the leaders of the party and they're doing a great

2229
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:23,680
Speaker 2: job and they're doing everything right. I'm like, what is

2230
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 2: even going on here? I mean, is so profoundly different.

2231
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:28,800
Speaker 2: I can't even wrap my head around it. And the

2232
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 2: cynical take is, well, that's all nice, well and good

2233
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:32,439
Speaker 2: now that Bernie is too old and is never going

2234
01:52:32,479 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 2: to run for president again. I do think that there

2235
01:52:34,240 --> 01:52:35,720
Speaker 2: is some of that that now it's sort of more

2236
01:52:35,960 --> 01:52:39,040
Speaker 2: safe for them to embrace him. But I also think

2237
01:52:39,080 --> 01:52:44,799
Speaker 2: there is a genuine divide among people who thought who

2238
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:47,800
Speaker 2: genuinely wanted to fight Trump and saw his threat for

2239
01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:51,200
Speaker 2: what it was, but thought that the way to do

2240
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 2: it was through you know, democracy talk, fascism talk, and

2241
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 2: like a standard liberal approach like Joe Biden and people

2242
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:01,759
Speaker 2: who So those are people who you know, genuinely understood

2243
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:03,360
Speaker 2: the stakes and want to fight, and now that the

2244
01:53:03,360 --> 01:53:05,960
Speaker 2: information has showed them like that was not the right

2245
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,000
Speaker 2: way to fight, they are shifting their approach. And I

2246
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 2: think much of the Democratic base falls into that camp.

2247
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:15,080
Speaker 2: And people like rom Emmanuel who have I wouldn't say

2248
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:17,439
Speaker 2: they don't believe anything. He believes in his own ambition.

2249
01:53:17,560 --> 01:53:21,040
Speaker 2: He believes in, like, you know, serving corporate interests, and

2250
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 2: so even though the writing is on the wall, about

2251
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:27,800
Speaker 2: what would be more effective to combat Trump and trump Ism.

2252
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:31,080
Speaker 2: They are not going to change because they're ideologically committed

2253
01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:34,800
Speaker 2: to preserving a certain status quo that is deeply unpopular

2254
01:53:34,840 --> 01:53:35,400
Speaker 2: in the country.

2255
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:40,720
Speaker 3: Let's move on to the drama at sixty Minutes and

2256
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:44,240
Speaker 3: CBS more broadly crystal. Because a story broke yesterday in

2257
01:53:44,280 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 3: The New York Times that the executive producer we can

2258
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:48,519
Speaker 3: go ahead and put this first hairs sheet up on

2259
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:53,760
Speaker 3: the screen. The executive producer of CBS's sixty Minutes resigned

2260
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,480
Speaker 3: and cited a quote loss of independence.

2261
01:53:56,640 --> 01:53:57,759
Speaker 4: This is Bill Owens.

2262
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:00,000
Speaker 3: He's actually only the third person, as the New York

2263
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:03,240
Speaker 3: Times notes, to run the program, and it's fifty seven

2264
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:07,040
Speaker 3: year history that speaks really the continuity of leadership behind

2265
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:07,759
Speaker 3: sixty minutes.

2266
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:08,920
Speaker 4: And I think Chris.

2267
01:54:08,840 --> 01:54:13,080
Speaker 3: Will probably also how serious CBS is about having continuity

2268
01:54:13,120 --> 01:54:16,160
Speaker 3: of leadership at sixty minutes, Owen said, quote. Over the

2269
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 3: past months, it has become clear that I would not

2270
01:54:18,040 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 3: be allowed to run the show as I have always

2271
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:22,600
Speaker 3: run it, to make independent decisions based on what is

2272
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,639
Speaker 3: right for sixty minutes, right for the audience. So having

2273
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 3: defended the show and what we stand for from every angle,

2274
01:54:28,080 --> 01:54:30,559
Speaker 3: over time with everything I could, I'm stepping aside so

2275
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:33,640
Speaker 3: the show can move forward. That memo was leaked to

2276
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:37,800
Speaker 3: The New York Times strategically, probably not by CBS, but

2277
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:40,880
Speaker 3: maybe by CBS. But we learned more as the day

2278
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:44,000
Speaker 3: went on about exactly what happened there.

2279
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 4: This is from This is from Semaphore.

2280
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:50,879
Speaker 3: They had a pretty good report on what was happening

2281
01:54:50,920 --> 01:54:53,240
Speaker 3: behind the scenes, because I just want to say that

2282
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:58,320
Speaker 3: Bill Owen's memo is pretty careful in remaining vague about

2283
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:02,040
Speaker 3: how he wasn't able to make quote independent decisions. Obviously,

2284
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 3: the New York Times immediately framed it in the context

2285
01:55:04,760 --> 01:55:10,160
Speaker 3: of the suit that Donald Trump is fighting CBS and

2286
01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:13,760
Speaker 3: over that Kamala that edited Kamala Harris interview on sixty

2287
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:16,480
Speaker 3: minutes ahead of the election. The Trump campaign is still

2288
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:20,320
Speaker 3: the Trump camp is claiming that that amounted to election interference.

2289
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:24,520
Speaker 3: But we've seen like ABC News settle with Trump over

2290
01:55:24,520 --> 01:55:28,040
Speaker 3: the Georgie Stephanopolis case, and so questions about what's really

2291
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 3: going on between the Trump administration and CBS were immediately

2292
01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:41,240
Speaker 3: raised in light of this information. And then Semaphore had

2293
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:46,600
Speaker 3: a scoop from Max Tanny yesterday that Sherry Redstone, who

2294
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 3: is the head of CBS. She owns paramount and is

2295
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:54,400
Speaker 3: therefore the head of CBS, was keeping tabs on sixty

2296
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:58,920
Speaker 3: minutes sixty minutes segments about Donald Trump. According to two

2297
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 3: people familiar to the situation, this was in quote recent days,

2298
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:06,560
Speaker 3: she sought to know which upcoming sixty minute stories were

2299
01:56:06,640 --> 01:56:10,160
Speaker 3: about Trump and why that's interesting.

2300
01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:11,960
Speaker 4: Also is that sixty.

2301
01:56:11,600 --> 01:56:13,880
Speaker 3: Minutes there was an ap story I went and found

2302
01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 3: yesterday Crystal about how fearless sixty minutes had been about

2303
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:21,120
Speaker 3: Donald Trump after he was around the time of the inauguration,

2304
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:23,600
Speaker 3: despite the legal battle.

2305
01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:25,280
Speaker 4: So there's something in.

2306
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 3: Recent days here according to the Semaphore report, where Redstone

2307
01:56:29,480 --> 01:56:32,040
Speaker 3: was looking to kind of keep tabs on how they

2308
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 3: covered Donald Trump.

2309
01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 4: So what's your reaction.

2310
01:56:35,160 --> 01:56:37,800
Speaker 2: Crystal, Yeah, no, I mean I think there were a

2311
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:40,640
Speaker 2: lot of indications. So sixty minutes has I think done

2312
01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:43,800
Speaker 2: some fantastic journalism in the Trump two point zero era.

2313
01:56:44,480 --> 01:56:46,960
Speaker 2: We highlighted here a report they were one of the

2314
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,520
Speaker 2: first to dig into, like, okay, well, who actually were

2315
01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:51,360
Speaker 2: these people you claimed were the worst of the worst

2316
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:54,400
Speaker 2: gang members that got disappeared into the torture dungeon in

2317
01:56:54,440 --> 01:56:58,320
Speaker 2: El Salvador. In particular highlighting the case of Andre the

2318
01:56:59,160 --> 01:57:03,960
Speaker 2: makeup artist, and they, you know, dug into his story

2319
01:57:04,040 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 2: and those of others and talked to his loved ones,

2320
01:57:06,240 --> 01:57:09,600
Speaker 2: and they were the ones to first analyze and find

2321
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:11,839
Speaker 2: I think it was their finding was seventy five percent

2322
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:14,240
Speaker 2: of those who were sent had no criminal record whatsoever.

2323
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 2: So they have done some extraordinary work. I don't think

2324
01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:22,360
Speaker 2: anyone could deny that, and seemed to be unflinching. On

2325
01:57:22,440 --> 01:57:25,560
Speaker 2: the other hand, apparently Emily, according to I believe this

2326
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:28,320
Speaker 2: was a New York Times report, some of the problem

2327
01:57:28,640 --> 01:57:32,240
Speaker 2: began after a sixty minute segment that you might remember

2328
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:37,320
Speaker 2: in January about the war between about Israel's assault on Gaza,

2329
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 2: and they interviewed State Department former State Department officials who

2330
01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 2: had resigned over the you know, their horror at what

2331
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:50,120
Speaker 2: the US was doing there. They shared exclusive images from

2332
01:57:50,120 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 2: within Gaza that exposed how barbarous it was. They talked

2333
01:57:55,760 --> 01:58:01,560
Speaker 2: about how by one analysis, there were seventy thousand Palestinians

2334
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 2: who had been killed there. And apparently Sherry Redstone after

2335
01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:11,160
Speaker 2: that complained to CBS executives about that segment, and they

2336
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:14,920
Speaker 2: appointed a CBS producer to a new role overseeing the

2337
01:58:14,960 --> 01:58:19,440
Speaker 2: news division's journalistic standards, and she was put into place

2338
01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:24,080
Speaker 2: to review any segments that were deemed politically sensitive, so

2339
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:26,840
Speaker 2: that appears to have been part of it as well.

2340
01:58:27,360 --> 01:58:30,480
Speaker 2: And then and she, by the way, she's paramounts controlling shareholder,

2341
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:33,920
Speaker 2: so she's like the one one in charge, and they're

2342
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:37,560
Speaker 2: trying to approve get approval for a multi billion dollar

2343
01:58:37,680 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 2: sale of her company to Skydance, which is run by

2344
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:44,040
Speaker 2: Larry Ellison. So you know, I mean, this is the

2345
01:58:44,040 --> 01:58:46,440
Speaker 2: problem with corporate media, right, This is the problem with

2346
01:58:46,480 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 2: corporate media. Sixty minutes is not important to Sherry Redstone.

2347
01:58:51,400 --> 01:58:54,240
Speaker 2: They want their merger deal to go through. That's what

2348
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:56,600
Speaker 2: the real you know, the real interest of the bottom

2349
01:58:56,600 --> 01:59:00,920
Speaker 2: line is, and doing really hard hitting journalism on the

2350
01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:05,080
Speaker 2: Trump administration is not consistent with the goal of obtaining

2351
01:59:05,160 --> 01:59:09,400
Speaker 2: your merger approval, especially with this administration which weaponizes the

2352
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 2: government to punish those that they perceive to be enemies.

2353
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:15,320
Speaker 2: So you add to that the Kamala Harris thing, and

2354
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:18,200
Speaker 2: you can see that, you know, pressure was coming down

2355
01:59:18,320 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 2: of well, how often are you going to say negative

2356
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:22,880
Speaker 2: things about the Trump administration and cover things that they're

2357
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 2: doing in an unflattering light. You know, we need to

2358
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:28,520
Speaker 2: soften the edges, we need, we need to be made aware.

2359
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:32,200
Speaker 2: And even just that, and I speak from experience, even

2360
01:59:32,320 --> 01:59:36,600
Speaker 2: just that insertion of like the top corporate brass needs

2361
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:40,040
Speaker 2: to know if you're doing a Trump related story that

2362
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:42,600
Speaker 2: is intended to have a chilling effect, because who wants

2363
01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 2: to always go up the chain to the boss and

2364
01:59:44,360 --> 01:59:46,720
Speaker 2: beg and plead your case and whatever. So if you're

2365
01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 2: weighing two different storylines and one requires you to do

2366
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:52,520
Speaker 2: that and one of them can sail through and you're

2367
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:54,600
Speaker 2: not gonna have many political issues within the company, there's

2368
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,920
Speaker 2: going to be heavy incentive to move in that direction. So,

2369
01:59:58,160 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's I think it's I think

2370
02:00:00,520 --> 02:00:02,720
Speaker 2: it shows a lot of integrity that he got to

2371
02:00:02,760 --> 02:00:04,840
Speaker 2: a point where he felt he had fought as hard

2372
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 2: as he could to maintain his journalistic independence in that

2373
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:09,560
Speaker 2: of the program and got to a place where it's like,

2374
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:11,400
Speaker 2: I can't associate myself with this anymore.

2375
02:00:11,760 --> 02:00:15,920
Speaker 3: And this is really interesting, the guidance stuff. So The

2376
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 3: New York Times, in this report says Redstone is eager

2377
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:21,680
Speaker 3: to secure the Trump's administration. The Trump administration's approval for

2378
02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:24,040
Speaker 3: multi billion dollar sale over company is Skuydance, a company

2379
02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:26,400
Speaker 3: run by the son of tech billionaire Larry Ellison. Bear

2380
02:00:26,440 --> 02:00:28,320
Speaker 3: in mind, and I'll get to this more in a second.

2381
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,240
Speaker 3: Larry Ellison is fairly close with the Trump administration. The

2382
02:00:31,320 --> 02:00:35,280
Speaker 3: Times also reports that Redstone has quote expressed a desire

2383
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:38,240
Speaker 3: to settle mister Trump's case, which stems from what the

2384
02:00:38,240 --> 02:00:40,720
Speaker 3: president has called a deceptively edited interview on October with

2385
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:42,520
Speaker 3: Vice President Kamala Harris that aired.

2386
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:43,080
Speaker 4: On sixty minutes.

2387
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:46,280
Speaker 3: That would essentially, I mean, it is such a stupid

2388
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:51,680
Speaker 3: and ridiculous case, even if CBS did deceptively, which they

2389
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:52,720
Speaker 3: but corporate media.

2390
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:54,320
Speaker 4: Is always like deceptively editing stuff.

2391
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:57,680
Speaker 3: It's not illegal and it's not defamation in the vast

2392
02:00:57,760 --> 02:01:00,880
Speaker 3: majority of cases, including this one. To settle that case,

2393
02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:04,240
Speaker 3: Unlike the George Stephanopolis one, which I think was actually

2394
02:01:04,240 --> 02:01:06,840
Speaker 3: a lot trickier from ABC, this is not the same

2395
02:01:06,880 --> 02:01:10,880
Speaker 3: thing that would basically amount to a bribe in the

2396
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:13,880
Speaker 3: context of this sale. Like, that's how stupid it would

2397
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:16,680
Speaker 3: be to settle this case with Trump. From just a

2398
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:18,960
Speaker 3: legal standpoint, that's how stupid it would be. But from

2399
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:21,920
Speaker 3: a business standpoint, it may indeed be it very clever.

2400
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:24,280
Speaker 3: I want to flash back to a New York Times

2401
02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:26,960
Speaker 3: headline or a New York Post headline I'm sorry from

2402
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:30,320
Speaker 3: January when Donald Trump announced his big AI deal.

2403
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:32,480
Speaker 4: This is an exclusive in the New York Post.

2404
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 3: Larry Allison's backing of Trump's five hundred billion dollar AI

2405
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:40,080
Speaker 3: project could help save Paramount merger. According to sources, Ellison, Right,

2406
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:42,400
Speaker 3: whose networth is currently pegged by Forbes at two hundred

2407
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:44,800
Speaker 3: and five billion, is likely hoping his show of support

2408
02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:49,360
Speaker 3: for Stargate will help his son, David's Skydance Media to

2409
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:54,840
Speaker 3: gain regulatory approval for his controversial eight billion dollar deal

2410
02:01:54,960 --> 02:01:59,040
Speaker 3: to merge with Paramount. That's what's going on. That's like

2411
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:03,520
Speaker 3: how serious they are about this freaking merger that it's

2412
02:02:03,600 --> 02:02:08,400
Speaker 3: now affecting sixty minutes. It's just so I mean this again,

2413
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:09,640
Speaker 3: like this is not exceptional.

2414
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:13,520
Speaker 4: This stuff happens. This is the habit of corporate media.

2415
02:02:13,560 --> 02:02:14,200
Speaker 4: It's how they.

2416
02:02:14,040 --> 02:02:17,520
Speaker 3: Handle their news. But holy smoke, so this one is

2417
02:02:17,560 --> 02:02:18,200
Speaker 3: so brazen.

2418
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:21,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, yeah, this is at a new level.

2419
02:02:21,360 --> 02:02:23,000
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any doubt that it's at a

2420
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:25,920
Speaker 2: new level. And it's because the Trump administration is at

2421
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:28,600
Speaker 2: a new level and just making it really clear that

2422
02:02:28,600 --> 02:02:30,680
Speaker 2: they're going to help their friends and they're going to

2423
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:32,880
Speaker 2: fuck their enemies, and they're going to use, you know,

2424
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 2: every power that they have in the state, legal and

2425
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:38,640
Speaker 2: illegal in order to do it. And you know, this

2426
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:42,280
Speaker 2: is my concern with the you know, something like an

2427
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:45,200
Speaker 2: anti trust agenda, which I think is so important and

2428
02:02:45,440 --> 02:02:49,880
Speaker 2: which you know, was significantly moved forward under the Biden

2429
02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:53,640
Speaker 2: administration with Lee Na Kahan and with Jonathan Canter, and

2430
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:58,720
Speaker 2: you know, one of the most positive developments of the

2431
02:02:58,720 --> 02:03:01,640
Speaker 2: Biden administration was moved in that direction. But if you

2432
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:05,320
Speaker 2: have an administration that is just going to use those

2433
02:03:05,400 --> 02:03:10,200
Speaker 2: powers of green lighting and blocking mergers as basically a

2434
02:03:10,200 --> 02:03:13,640
Speaker 2: political weapon, you're going to discredit an entire project which

2435
02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:17,400
Speaker 2: is actually really important and really positive for the American people.

2436
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:21,760
Speaker 2: And that certainly that's how corporate America thinks that the

2437
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:24,320
Speaker 2: Trump administration is going about their business, that it has

2438
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:26,360
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the merits of whether the merger

2439
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:28,760
Speaker 2: is going to be beneficial for the country or not,

2440
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:32,560
Speaker 2: and everything to do with whether or not you appropriately

2441
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:36,840
Speaker 2: praised him, how much money you gave to inauguration, whether

2442
02:03:36,880 --> 02:03:41,760
Speaker 2: you ponied up the money for his Stargate thing, whether

2443
02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:43,680
Speaker 2: you spent a million dollars to go down to mar

2444
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:47,280
Speaker 2: Lago and plead your case, et cetera. And that's a

2445
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:51,680
Speaker 2: that's a really bad place for a purported democracy to be.

2446
02:03:51,840 --> 02:03:53,920
Speaker 2: That's a very bad place for it to be, because

2447
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:57,000
Speaker 2: then you just end up with a cult of sycophantic,

2448
02:03:57,280 --> 02:04:00,360
Speaker 2: favored oligarchs who get to do what they want with

2449
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:02,360
Speaker 2: impunity and run everything.

2450
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:04,160
Speaker 4: This is yeah, I mean, this is oligarchy.

2451
02:04:04,240 --> 02:04:08,080
Speaker 3: This is i this is your classic example. A source

2452
02:04:08,080 --> 02:04:11,200
Speaker 3: coast to Paramount back in January said, quote, this is

2453
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:14,280
Speaker 3: very smart for Larry to do. It tells me he

2454
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:17,080
Speaker 3: won't have any issues with the Paramount deal. And that's

2455
02:04:17,080 --> 02:04:21,640
Speaker 3: in reference to again him backing the Stargate project, the

2456
02:04:21,720 --> 02:04:24,880
Speaker 3: five hundred billion dollar AI project that Trump came out

2457
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:27,360
Speaker 3: and did that press conference with very early in the

2458
02:04:27,400 --> 02:04:30,880
Speaker 3: second term, surrounded by Sam Altman and Larry Allison and

2459
02:04:30,920 --> 02:04:34,120
Speaker 3: others right away. And so then you have a source

2460
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:35,880
Speaker 3: talking in your post say, oh, it tells me he's

2461
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:37,760
Speaker 3: not gonna have any problem at all with this Guide

2462
02:04:37,840 --> 02:04:41,640
Speaker 3: Dance merger. Unbelievable, it really, I mean, it's perfect. But

2463
02:04:41,880 --> 02:04:43,880
Speaker 3: what's also interesting about it is it reminds me so

2464
02:04:44,000 --> 02:04:47,120
Speaker 3: much of what happened with Mark Zuckerberg last week.

2465
02:04:47,160 --> 02:04:49,720
Speaker 4: We'll see, But Mark Zuckerberg.

2466
02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:53,040
Speaker 3: Has been pouring millions of dollars to lobby the Trump

2467
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:58,320
Speaker 3: administration to back off the anti trust suit, and he

2468
02:04:58,440 --> 02:05:02,560
Speaker 3: got smacked in the face for glue last week when Trump's.

2469
02:05:02,280 --> 02:05:07,040
Speaker 4: FTC went through with it. Because Trump's FTC, in a sort.

2470
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:09,600
Speaker 3: Of nod to the New Right that kind of helped

2471
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:15,280
Speaker 3: Trump get back in power, is staffed by legit like

2472
02:05:15,400 --> 02:05:19,040
Speaker 3: Lena Kahan type, and we'll see again. You know, if

2473
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:22,560
Speaker 3: you're Alena con type operating under Donald Trump, you probably

2474
02:05:22,920 --> 02:05:26,240
Speaker 3: aren't the same as Alena con type operating under Joe Biden,

2475
02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:30,240
Speaker 3: who was like just vacant, mentally vacant for most of

2476
02:05:30,240 --> 02:05:33,840
Speaker 3: his presidency. So you know, if Donald Trump does pick

2477
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:35,760
Speaker 3: up the phone and tell them to stop the anti

2478
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:40,000
Speaker 3: trust case into Facebook or Meta, then maybe that does

2479
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:43,920
Speaker 3: legitimately change things. But Zuckerberg was in for a spent

2480
02:05:44,040 --> 02:05:47,640
Speaker 3: all this money and was in for really harsh awakening

2481
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:50,360
Speaker 3: when he realized Andrew Ferguson was not dropping the suit

2482
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:53,480
Speaker 3: and Gil Slater is serious and these people are like

2483
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:56,920
Speaker 3: actual we don't know how much power they'll have when

2484
02:05:57,120 --> 02:05:59,360
Speaker 3: everything is said and done at the end of this administration.

2485
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 3: But they're like actual anti corporate ideologues who have this

2486
02:06:05,160 --> 02:06:08,840
Speaker 3: like opposition to the ideology of anti trust that was popular.

2487
02:06:08,520 --> 02:06:10,600
Speaker 4: On the right and the center left for a long time.

2488
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:13,000
Speaker 3: And I don't know if Larry Elson is about to

2489
02:06:13,080 --> 02:06:15,960
Speaker 3: run headfirst into the exact same thing. Maybe because this

2490
02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 3: is the nature of Donald Trump. We were talking about

2491
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:20,320
Speaker 3: this in the tariff block. This is about what move

2492
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:22,560
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is in on a given day, and who

2493
02:06:22,640 --> 02:06:24,360
Speaker 3: can have his ear on a given day. We now

2494
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:28,200
Speaker 3: know that with Facebook he was urmeta. I'm sorry, he

2495
02:06:28,320 --> 02:06:31,040
Speaker 3: was persuaded by a meeting that he had with Andrew Ferguson.

2496
02:06:32,200 --> 02:06:34,760
Speaker 3: So we don't we actually don't know what's gonna happen

2497
02:06:34,800 --> 02:06:36,720
Speaker 3: with us, but it is sort of I guess the

2498
02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:41,200
Speaker 3: silver lining is amusing Crystal to watch the oligarch sort

2499
02:06:41,240 --> 02:06:44,160
Speaker 3: of stretch their necks out with millions and millions of dollars,

2500
02:06:44,240 --> 02:06:47,200
Speaker 3: put the credibility of their flagship news program on the

2501
02:06:47,280 --> 02:06:50,360
Speaker 3: line to get a freaking merger through.

2502
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:53,560
Speaker 5: It's just so pathetic. It is pathetic.

2503
02:06:53,640 --> 02:06:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean, Zuckerberg is particularly pathetic, particularly pathetic because he

2504
02:06:58,120 --> 02:07:00,480
Speaker 2: didn't just do all the like sucking up up and

2505
02:07:00,560 --> 02:07:03,320
Speaker 2: the you know, here's some cash for your inauguration or

2506
02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:05,400
Speaker 2: I don't remember the details. I think he did give

2507
02:07:05,400 --> 02:07:08,960
Speaker 2: for the inauguration. But he also like completely changed his

2508
02:07:09,240 --> 02:07:12,880
Speaker 2: personal appearance and went on joor gonna like I'm moving

2509
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:16,240
Speaker 2: content moderation to Texas, like he did the whole, the

2510
02:07:16,280 --> 02:07:18,400
Speaker 2: whole thing, and they're still like now I still don't

2511
02:07:18,440 --> 02:07:19,400
Speaker 2: like you, sorry.

2512
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:20,640
Speaker 4: And it's just like it is.

2513
02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:23,480
Speaker 3: So it goes to what we're talking about with Rom

2514
02:07:23,480 --> 02:07:26,040
Speaker 3: and Manuel again earlier in the show, or Gavin Newsom

2515
02:07:26,200 --> 02:07:28,840
Speaker 3: going from like using latin X to being like I

2516
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:29,880
Speaker 3: never used latin X.

2517
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:30,879
Speaker 4: It's like they.

2518
02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:35,040
Speaker 3: Believe in their own power and their own bank accounts

2519
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:37,960
Speaker 3: and their own businesses more than they believe in any

2520
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:40,760
Speaker 3: of the politics that they wear literally in Zuckerberg's case,

2521
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 3: like fashion.

2522
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:42,520
Speaker 5: His big chain.

2523
02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he wears his politics like his

2524
02:07:45,200 --> 02:07:47,880
Speaker 3: politics changed with his fashion because he's trying to like

2525
02:07:47,920 --> 02:07:51,480
Speaker 3: suck up to people and he's trying to do something

2526
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:53,880
Speaker 3: with his like it's all very.

2527
02:07:53,760 --> 02:07:55,920
Speaker 4: Obvious what he's what he's doing. It's very transparent what

2528
02:07:55,960 --> 02:07:56,400
Speaker 4: he's doing.

2529
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:59,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and with him, he goes from taking meetings with

2530
02:07:59,880 --> 02:08:03,959
Speaker 3: the FBI and then taking their wink wink and suppressing

2531
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:07,480
Speaker 3: the Hunter Biden's story on Meta to being like, oh,

2532
02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:11,400
Speaker 3: the censorship is horrible and we never intended that, you know,

2533
02:08:11,480 --> 02:08:14,120
Speaker 3: to be as it's just so stupid.

2534
02:08:13,880 --> 02:08:16,720
Speaker 2: And well and they're still censoring aggressively on behalf of

2535
02:08:16,760 --> 02:08:19,160
Speaker 2: the Israelis by the way, which has been exposed, especially

2536
02:08:19,160 --> 02:08:20,120
Speaker 2: on Instagram.

2537
02:08:20,240 --> 02:08:22,640
Speaker 4: It's so pathetic. It's also a pathetic.

2538
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:25,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I mean it is, Yes, it is pathetic.

2539
02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:28,200
Speaker 2: And it does get to like the Gavin Newsom point too,

2540
02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:31,280
Speaker 2: of like they still don't like you, bro, Like they

2541
02:08:31,280 --> 02:08:32,240
Speaker 2: still aren't going to like you.

2542
02:08:32,320 --> 02:08:33,680
Speaker 5: And I just want to say.

2543
02:08:33,480 --> 02:08:37,000
Speaker 2: Like the instinct on the from the base of the

2544
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:41,280
Speaker 2: Republican Party on the populace right that the tech oligarchs

2545
02:08:41,320 --> 02:08:45,400
Speaker 2: are an evil, malevolent force in American society, like that

2546
02:08:45,520 --> 02:08:48,040
Speaker 2: instinct is correct. Yeah, I think that they are a

2547
02:08:48,200 --> 02:08:52,160
Speaker 2: malevolent force in the world. I think they are anti human.

2548
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,879
Speaker 2: I think they are Naomi Client said this, and I agree.

2549
02:08:56,960 --> 02:09:00,720
Speaker 2: I think they are anti creation. I think that they do.

2550
02:09:00,840 --> 02:09:04,520
Speaker 2: They you know, have these bizarre like End Times cult

2551
02:09:04,560 --> 02:09:08,480
Speaker 2: type fantasies about uploading their consciousness to the cloud and

2552
02:09:08,520 --> 02:09:11,480
Speaker 2: what did Elon say, We're being used to like boot

2553
02:09:11,560 --> 02:09:14,840
Speaker 2: ai Like, that's their view of the world, and I

2554
02:09:14,880 --> 02:09:16,800
Speaker 2: think they should be I think they need to be

2555
02:09:16,880 --> 02:09:19,200
Speaker 2: stopped at all costs. And one of the most one

2556
02:09:19,280 --> 02:09:21,400
Speaker 2: of the things that has disturbed me the most in

2557
02:09:21,440 --> 02:09:25,720
Speaker 2: this Trump administration is the way that their ideology, through

2558
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:29,120
Speaker 2: the person of Elon and Doge and how much power

2559
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:31,680
Speaker 2: and sway he has had in the government, has been

2560
02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:35,000
Speaker 2: quite ascendant in a way that I think is genuinely

2561
02:09:35,600 --> 02:09:38,640
Speaker 2: like a threat to people who value humanity.

2562
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:40,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we'll see.

2563
02:09:40,440 --> 02:09:43,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I think there's just we're in a time

2564
02:09:43,360 --> 02:09:47,960
Speaker 3: when people are so you know, rootless, and you know,

2565
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:51,680
Speaker 3: it's easy to get caught up and going along with,

2566
02:09:52,040 --> 02:09:55,240
Speaker 3: you know, whatever someone like Donald Trump is surrounding himself with,

2567
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:59,520
Speaker 3: because people put their trust in different figures and we're

2568
02:09:59,800 --> 02:10:01,880
Speaker 3: like looking for that. I think it's where the the

2569
02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:04,120
Speaker 3: you know, whether you agree with it or not, the

2570
02:10:04,160 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 3: moral clarity that Bernie Sanders has come out with in

2571
02:10:07,240 --> 02:10:09,640
Speaker 3: the last month or so is really really attractive to

2572
02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:14,000
Speaker 3: people because it's not wishy washy milk toast rama, manual

2573
02:10:14,040 --> 02:10:15,240
Speaker 3: Gavin Newsom and bullshit.

2574
02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:18,840
Speaker 4: It's this is a coher a clear and coherent.

2575
02:10:18,440 --> 02:10:22,240
Speaker 3: Worldview that I deeply believe in in the fire with

2576
02:10:22,280 --> 02:10:26,160
Speaker 3: every fiber of my being. Here's why. Uh, that's really

2577
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 3: attractive to people right now. And you know that's something

2578
02:10:30,040 --> 02:10:32,720
Speaker 3: for I think the right to watch out for as well,

2579
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:35,080
Speaker 3: because it's it's not clear, it's it really muddles it

2580
02:10:35,120 --> 02:10:38,160
Speaker 3: to bring Elon Musk and some of these tech guys

2581
02:10:38,160 --> 02:10:38,800
Speaker 3: into the picture.

2582
02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it, no doubt about it.

2583
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:44,680
Speaker 2: And the agenda that they want is not when that

2584
02:10:44,760 --> 02:10:46,280
Speaker 2: serves humanity, that's right.

2585
02:10:46,680 --> 02:10:50,560
Speaker 4: Well, I not know, Chris, the destruction of humanity.

2586
02:10:51,240 --> 02:10:53,640
Speaker 2: I like that we started with this peg about sixty

2587
02:10:53,640 --> 02:10:56,560
Speaker 2: minutes and somehow ended up in the tech barons wanting

2588
02:10:56,600 --> 02:10:58,240
Speaker 2: to destroy the world. I'm not even really sure how

2589
02:10:58,240 --> 02:10:59,120
Speaker 2: we got mergers.

2590
02:10:59,160 --> 02:10:59,520
Speaker 5: That's how.

2591
02:11:00,040 --> 02:11:03,000
Speaker 3: I was just over here like googling Larry Allison getting

2592
02:11:03,040 --> 02:11:05,600
Speaker 3: to the New York Post article, and then we went

2593
02:11:05,640 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 3: off the rails, because why not.

2594
02:11:07,800 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 4: It's a girl show.

2595
02:11:09,160 --> 02:11:12,360
Speaker 5: Girl show, that's what it is, the girl shows.

2596
02:11:13,040 --> 02:11:15,320
Speaker 2: We need to invite those ladies what are their names

2597
02:11:15,320 --> 02:11:17,240
Speaker 2: from the the.

2598
02:11:17,320 --> 02:11:20,080
Speaker 5: What I've had it, I've got a podcast.

2599
02:11:20,280 --> 02:11:22,240
Speaker 2: We need to have those ladies on with us, Emily.

2600
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:24,960
Speaker 2: We need to make amends. I can I can do

2601
02:11:25,080 --> 02:11:27,560
Speaker 2: like a you know, we can do a restorative justice

2602
02:11:27,560 --> 02:11:28,200
Speaker 2: with you and them.

2603
02:11:29,520 --> 02:11:30,360
Speaker 4: Wit cough.

2604
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:35,880
Speaker 5: Be like, you don't want me to meet with.

2605
02:11:35,840 --> 02:11:39,400
Speaker 2: Them, Emily because you are afraid I'm gonna realize they're

2606
02:11:39,400 --> 02:11:40,360
Speaker 2: actually nice people.

2607
02:11:40,960 --> 02:11:46,480
Speaker 4: Maybe I don't know. We'll find out. Maybe we'll find out.

2608
02:11:46,520 --> 02:11:47,720
Speaker 4: We'll see, we'll see what we can do.

2609
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:50,000
Speaker 5: Crystal, there you go, we'll work it out. Well. Thank

2610
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:51,120
Speaker 5: you for having me, Emily.

2611
02:11:51,440 --> 02:11:53,800
Speaker 2: I enjoy it. It's always fun. And I'll be back

2612
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:56,920
Speaker 2: with soccer tomorrow. Should be back to normal tomorrow. And

2613
02:11:57,000 --> 02:11:58,880
Speaker 2: we've got the Friday shows, so we'll see who can

2614
02:11:59,000 --> 02:12:00,560
Speaker 2: who shows up for that. We kind of keep it

2615
02:12:00,560 --> 02:12:02,920
Speaker 2: loose about which hosts joined for the Friday show, so

2616
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:03,760
Speaker 2: you'd be surprised.

2617
02:12:03,880 --> 02:12:06,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's always a fun surprise. I was actually

2618
02:12:06,520 --> 02:12:08,520
Speaker 3: Ryan and I didn't know that you and Sager weren't

2619
02:12:08,520 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 3: going to be on last week, and we logged on

2620
02:12:11,360 --> 02:12:14,360
Speaker 3: and we were like, oh, okay, I guess we're We're

2621
02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:16,480
Speaker 3: just going to be playing the roles of Crystal and

2622
02:12:16,520 --> 02:12:19,560
Speaker 3: Sager as best we can, in addition to the Ryan

2623
02:12:19,600 --> 02:12:22,920
Speaker 3: and Emily, which was you know it was an interesting experiment.

2624
02:12:23,360 --> 02:12:24,560
Speaker 5: You don't have to play our roles.

2625
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:27,320
Speaker 4: You guys just do you, but you're always with us

2626
02:12:27,360 --> 02:12:27,839
Speaker 4: in spirit.

2627
02:12:28,280 --> 02:12:29,480
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, I appreciate that.

2628
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:32,960
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see everybody on Friday. Thank you so much

2629
02:12:32,960 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 4: for tuning in.

2630
02:12:33,800 --> 02:12:35,920
Speaker 3: As a reminder, if you can't subscribe over at Breakingpoints

2631
02:12:35,920 --> 02:12:38,480
Speaker 3: dot Com Premium, go ahead and just like the video,

2632
02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:39,320
Speaker 3: send it to a friend.

2633
02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:41,120
Speaker 4: It helps us so much. We appreciate it.

2634
02:12:41,160 --> 02:12:43,480
Speaker 3: And we'll see you back here with more Crystal and

2635
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:44,680
Speaker 3: Sager tomorrow morning.

2636
02:13:00,200 --> 02:13:00,320
Speaker 4: Ka