1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:19,516 --> 00:00:25,796 Speaker 2: Finally, almost sixty years later, humanity is going back to 3 00:00:25,956 --> 00:00:30,196 Speaker 2: the Moon. The plan, at least is for the United 4 00:00:30,236 --> 00:00:33,196 Speaker 2: States to build a base on the Moon in the 5 00:00:33,276 --> 00:00:37,236 Speaker 2: not terribly distant future, so that the Moon can be 6 00:00:37,276 --> 00:00:41,276 Speaker 2: both a literal and metaphorical launching pad for humanity to 7 00:00:41,396 --> 00:00:47,396 Speaker 2: explore the Solar System rad So what's it going to 8 00:00:47,476 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 2: take to build a base on the Moon? 9 00:00:50,236 --> 00:00:50,676 Speaker 3: A lot? 10 00:00:51,036 --> 00:01:02,436 Speaker 4: The answer is a lot. 11 00:01:03,596 --> 00:01:06,196 Speaker 2: I'm Jacob Goldstein. This is what's your problem? And my 12 00:01:06,236 --> 00:01:10,996 Speaker 2: guest today is Rob Myerson. Ub spent fifteen years running 13 00:01:11,036 --> 00:01:15,116 Speaker 2: Blue Origin, the rocket company founded by Jeff Bezos, and 14 00:01:15,356 --> 00:01:19,556 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty he started a company called interlun Rob's 15 00:01:19,556 --> 00:01:23,516 Speaker 2: problem is this, how do you build the infrastructure for 16 00:01:23,596 --> 00:01:28,156 Speaker 2: a lunar economy that doesn't really exist yet? Eventually, Rob 17 00:01:28,196 --> 00:01:31,236 Speaker 2: Hope's Inner Lune will help build that base on the Moon. 18 00:01:32,196 --> 00:01:33,516 Speaker 1: For now, though, he's. 19 00:01:33,316 --> 00:01:36,356 Speaker 2: Focused on a more short term but still not that 20 00:01:36,476 --> 00:01:39,996 Speaker 2: short term goal, going to the Moon and bringing back 21 00:01:40,036 --> 00:01:44,276 Speaker 2: a gas called helium three to sell on Earth. Helium 22 00:01:44,276 --> 00:01:47,356 Speaker 2: three is an isotope of helium that is wildly rare 23 00:01:47,396 --> 00:01:50,196 Speaker 2: on Earth, so rare that it sells for around ten 24 00:01:50,516 --> 00:01:55,476 Speaker 2: million dollars a pound. Helium three is used to identify 25 00:01:55,596 --> 00:02:00,116 Speaker 2: smuggled nuclear materials at ports and border crossings. It's also 26 00:02:00,236 --> 00:02:03,756 Speaker 2: used in certain kinds of quantum computing in certain forms 27 00:02:03,836 --> 00:02:08,396 Speaker 2: of fusion energy. Both fusion energy and quantum computing are 28 00:02:08,396 --> 00:02:12,196 Speaker 2: of course acting billions of dollars in investments right now, 29 00:02:12,676 --> 00:02:15,156 Speaker 2: and that is part of the reason Rob wants to 30 00:02:15,196 --> 00:02:18,236 Speaker 2: go to the Moon to bring back helium three. In 31 00:02:18,276 --> 00:02:21,116 Speaker 2: our conversation we talked about a lot. Rob told me 32 00:02:21,316 --> 00:02:24,476 Speaker 2: why reusable rockets are only the first step for going 33 00:02:24,516 --> 00:02:26,836 Speaker 2: back to the Moon, what it's going to take to 34 00:02:26,916 --> 00:02:30,356 Speaker 2: actually manufacture things in space, and how he's trying to 35 00:02:30,396 --> 00:02:32,436 Speaker 2: build a business by sifting through the. 36 00:02:32,436 --> 00:02:33,476 Speaker 1: Dirt on the Moon. 37 00:02:34,196 --> 00:02:36,996 Speaker 2: I talked to Rob on April tenth, and I mention 38 00:02:37,076 --> 00:02:40,236 Speaker 2: that because when we talked, the Artemis two astronauts were 39 00:02:40,236 --> 00:02:41,836 Speaker 2: on their way back from the Moon. 40 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:45,276 Speaker 1: So of course that's what we started with Rob. 41 00:02:45,316 --> 00:02:49,236 Speaker 2: As we're talking right now on this day, Artemis two 42 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:53,316 Speaker 2: is about fifty thousand miles from the Earth, hurtling toward 43 00:02:53,396 --> 00:02:57,116 Speaker 2: us at about six thousand miles an hour. Everything goes well, 44 00:02:57,116 --> 00:02:58,756 Speaker 2: it'll splash down later today. 45 00:03:00,636 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: What does that mean for you? What does it mean 46 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:05,596 Speaker 1: for the Moon. What does it mean for your company? 47 00:03:06,076 --> 00:03:09,556 Speaker 5: Well, first off, I started my career. I'm an aerospace engineer. 48 00:03:10,396 --> 00:03:12,836 Speaker 5: I started my career as a NASA co op in 49 00:03:12,916 --> 00:03:15,516 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty five, so I worked on the Space Shuttle. 50 00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:20,636 Speaker 5: I worked on aerodynamics of vehicles that re enter the atmosphere, 51 00:03:20,676 --> 00:03:22,556 Speaker 5: just like Oriyan will do this afternoon. 52 00:03:23,116 --> 00:03:25,196 Speaker 1: So you tell me you know a lot about what's 53 00:03:25,196 --> 00:03:25,956 Speaker 1: about to happen. 54 00:03:26,116 --> 00:03:28,676 Speaker 3: Is that what you're telling me? I do? 55 00:03:28,836 --> 00:03:31,076 Speaker 5: And I'm this is right up my alley, and I 56 00:03:31,116 --> 00:03:33,876 Speaker 5: know personally, I know that people who worked on it 57 00:03:33,916 --> 00:03:39,356 Speaker 5: to make it happen, And I'm super excited and I'm 58 00:03:39,396 --> 00:03:46,876 Speaker 5: super confident, and I'm quite honestly a little surprised at 59 00:03:46,916 --> 00:03:53,076 Speaker 5: the media, like the national excitement about it that is 60 00:03:53,116 --> 00:03:58,476 Speaker 5: shared because it's because it shows that human spaceflight is different. 61 00:03:58,556 --> 00:04:02,316 Speaker 5: We can generate excitement about the space program from a 62 00:04:02,316 --> 00:04:06,276 Speaker 5: broader audience by doing these new and exciting things and 63 00:04:06,356 --> 00:04:09,356 Speaker 5: going to the Moon to stay. You know, it's like 64 00:04:09,996 --> 00:04:13,156 Speaker 5: we've been to the moon before, but we haven't, like you, 65 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 5: and I like industry today hasn't been that was fifty 66 00:04:16,676 --> 00:04:20,116 Speaker 5: plus years ago, and we have a whole new group 67 00:04:20,156 --> 00:04:23,636 Speaker 5: of people that are doing it nuts. It's exciting to watch. 68 00:04:24,236 --> 00:04:24,836 Speaker 1: It is so. 69 00:04:24,876 --> 00:04:27,516 Speaker 2: Wild that we went to the moon and then we 70 00:04:27,596 --> 00:04:31,116 Speaker 2: stopped going to the moon, right, It's weird. You would 71 00:04:31,116 --> 00:04:35,396 Speaker 2: not have thought in whatever nineteen seventy two that humanity 72 00:04:35,436 --> 00:04:38,236 Speaker 2: would be like, well, that's it, we're done. We went 73 00:04:38,316 --> 00:04:40,436 Speaker 2: to the moon, and let's just stop going to the moon. Now, 74 00:04:41,636 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 2: exactly what's that all about? Like, why quit? We don't really, 75 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:50,436 Speaker 2: it's not in our nature. I mean, there's so much 76 00:04:50,436 --> 00:04:52,156 Speaker 2: more to learn on the moon. There's so much more 77 00:04:52,196 --> 00:04:58,196 Speaker 2: to benefit from. So going back to stay as it 78 00:04:58,236 --> 00:05:01,676 Speaker 2: really matters well and as you point out, right, so 79 00:05:01,756 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 2: this is Artemis two, right, and Artemis one was the 80 00:05:05,796 --> 00:05:08,516 Speaker 2: same thing, but without people, right, And it is much 81 00:05:08,516 --> 00:05:11,796 Speaker 2: more excited when there are people on board, which, oh yeah, 82 00:05:11,956 --> 00:05:14,516 Speaker 2: I get as a you know, as a human being, 83 00:05:14,596 --> 00:05:18,996 Speaker 2: as an English major whatever. On a certain level, it's 84 00:05:19,036 --> 00:05:21,956 Speaker 2: not entirely rational, right, because you could do a lot 85 00:05:22,636 --> 00:05:26,476 Speaker 2: without people, certainly easier to go without people. There's a 86 00:05:26,476 --> 00:05:29,876 Speaker 2: lot less to worry about, and yet it's so much 87 00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:31,556 Speaker 2: more exciting when there are people doing it. 88 00:05:32,676 --> 00:05:36,556 Speaker 5: There there are you can talk to my co founder 89 00:05:36,596 --> 00:05:39,356 Speaker 5: Harrison Schmidt, who walked on the moon on Apollo seventeen. 90 00:05:40,636 --> 00:05:43,796 Speaker 5: But the anecdotes you hear from these artemists, two astronauts. 91 00:05:44,316 --> 00:05:44,756 Speaker 3: You know, that. 92 00:05:44,876 --> 00:05:48,196 Speaker 5: Spacecraft that flew around the Moon on Artimist one didn't 93 00:05:48,236 --> 00:05:51,956 Speaker 5: tell us what it was seeing. These astronauts are telling 94 00:05:51,996 --> 00:05:54,596 Speaker 5: us that the moon looks brown. That's a surprise. What 95 00:05:54,796 --> 00:05:58,956 Speaker 5: it's all about lighting, And it's about the human observation, 96 00:05:59,076 --> 00:06:03,716 Speaker 5: what the eye can see that you don't show. 97 00:06:03,996 --> 00:06:07,596 Speaker 1: I don't believe you, right, it's about feelings. You're saying something. 98 00:06:07,876 --> 00:06:09,236 Speaker 1: I don't believe what you're saying. 99 00:06:09,356 --> 00:06:12,316 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, all right, it is it is. You're right, 100 00:06:12,436 --> 00:06:12,836 Speaker 3: You're right. 101 00:06:12,876 --> 00:06:16,756 Speaker 5: It is all about feelings, and it's making me feel 102 00:06:16,836 --> 00:06:17,636 Speaker 5: great right now. 103 00:06:17,756 --> 00:06:19,876 Speaker 3: So and I think that there's a lot of people 104 00:06:19,916 --> 00:06:20,636 Speaker 3: that feel the way I do. 105 00:06:21,116 --> 00:06:23,716 Speaker 2: So I want to talk about your kind of short 106 00:06:23,756 --> 00:06:27,276 Speaker 2: to medium term plans at Innerlon. But to start, since 107 00:06:27,276 --> 00:06:30,316 Speaker 2: we're already talking about astronauts and the moon and whatever, 108 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:34,276 Speaker 2: let's actually start with like your big dream of you know, 109 00:06:34,396 --> 00:06:37,196 Speaker 2: humanity and the moon and where inter Loon fits in. 110 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:45,156 Speaker 5: Sure, so, reusable rockets are something that is here to stay. 111 00:06:45,316 --> 00:06:47,036 Speaker 3: Like we I worked on the Space Shuttle. 112 00:06:47,076 --> 00:06:50,436 Speaker 5: I worked on a private company called Kissler that didn't 113 00:06:50,476 --> 00:06:52,076 Speaker 5: make it, and then I went to Blue Origin and 114 00:06:52,116 --> 00:06:56,636 Speaker 5: spent fifteen years there building reusable rockets and SpaceX right 115 00:06:56,676 --> 00:07:01,756 Speaker 5: alongside there. You know, these companies are building rockets that 116 00:07:01,836 --> 00:07:05,916 Speaker 5: are being reused in a way that will lower the 117 00:07:05,956 --> 00:07:08,676 Speaker 5: cost of spaceflight and eventually lower the price of space flight. 118 00:07:09,836 --> 00:07:13,276 Speaker 5: But that only gets you so far, Jacob. The the 119 00:07:13,276 --> 00:07:16,516 Speaker 5: the next lever for lowering the cost of space missions 120 00:07:16,556 --> 00:07:20,636 Speaker 5: is to build things in space using resources that you've 121 00:07:20,676 --> 00:07:26,356 Speaker 5: sourced from space so metals, rocket fuel, helium three, helium gas. 122 00:07:27,596 --> 00:07:32,236 Speaker 5: So there will be factories in space building things that 123 00:07:32,316 --> 00:07:34,756 Speaker 5: will support a long term in space economy. 124 00:07:35,076 --> 00:07:36,196 Speaker 3: And our big vision. 125 00:07:35,996 --> 00:07:41,076 Speaker 5: For Interloon is that we're we're the you know, the 126 00:07:41,156 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 5: central cogon net providing the resources that are used to 127 00:07:43,916 --> 00:07:49,876 Speaker 5: build buildings and uh and once you get that second flywheel, 128 00:07:49,876 --> 00:07:55,196 Speaker 5: that in space manufacturing flywheel going alongside the reusable rocket flywheel, 129 00:07:55,196 --> 00:07:58,876 Speaker 5: then you you kind of see, you know where where 130 00:07:58,876 --> 00:08:01,716 Speaker 5: the costs and where these economics can go in the 131 00:08:01,756 --> 00:08:02,316 Speaker 5: long term. 132 00:08:03,636 --> 00:08:05,436 Speaker 2: Why did you why did you start the company? I 133 00:08:05,476 --> 00:08:08,156 Speaker 2: mean you were you were president at Blue Origin, and 134 00:08:08,196 --> 00:08:12,076 Speaker 2: that's a cool space job building rockets to go to 135 00:08:12,196 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 2: space or almost to space. 136 00:08:14,436 --> 00:08:16,796 Speaker 1: What led you to start interloan? 137 00:08:18,116 --> 00:08:22,276 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I'd been at Blue Origin for fifteen years. 138 00:08:22,316 --> 00:08:25,916 Speaker 5: I was the president for most of those years. I 139 00:08:26,036 --> 00:08:32,436 Speaker 5: recognized that the infrastructure that we need to do things 140 00:08:32,556 --> 00:08:35,036 Speaker 5: long term on the Moon and in space is being 141 00:08:35,076 --> 00:08:38,956 Speaker 5: built by companies like Blue Origin SpaceX. But I also 142 00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:43,876 Speaker 5: noticed that the Artemis program, which was created under the 143 00:08:43,876 --> 00:08:47,356 Speaker 5: first Trump administration to go back to the Moon to stay, 144 00:08:47,636 --> 00:08:51,596 Speaker 5: was continued by the Biden administration. And that was the 145 00:08:51,636 --> 00:08:54,876 Speaker 5: first time in my career that a major nasive program 146 00:08:54,956 --> 00:08:57,956 Speaker 5: of record had been continued through the change of administration, 147 00:08:59,356 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 5: which meant to me that there is a lot of 148 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:03,996 Speaker 5: support for going to the Moon and on to Mars, 149 00:09:04,916 --> 00:09:08,476 Speaker 5: what the artist program was created for, and I knew 150 00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:10,836 Speaker 5: that now was the time to go to go do that. 151 00:09:11,236 --> 00:09:13,956 Speaker 2: So you have this idea, Oh, like the US government 152 00:09:14,036 --> 00:09:16,276 Speaker 2: is serious about going back to the Moon. I'm interested 153 00:09:16,276 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 2: in getting into the moon business. How do you get 154 00:09:18,596 --> 00:09:19,996 Speaker 2: from there to Helium three? 155 00:09:21,676 --> 00:09:26,436 Speaker 5: So my co founder, Harrison Schmidt, is the only geologist 156 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:27,276 Speaker 5: to walk on the Moon. 157 00:09:27,796 --> 00:09:29,756 Speaker 1: That's a cool business card. 158 00:09:29,956 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 3: Right, He is at one of a kind. 159 00:09:33,396 --> 00:09:39,956 Speaker 5: And I met him in twenty sixteen when I was 160 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:43,556 Speaker 5: at blue Origin. We talked about helium three at that time, 161 00:09:44,716 --> 00:09:49,276 Speaker 5: but he was focused on fusion energy and going to 162 00:09:49,316 --> 00:09:52,316 Speaker 5: the Moon in twenty sixteen to get helium three for 163 00:09:52,436 --> 00:09:53,156 Speaker 5: fusion is. 164 00:09:53,076 --> 00:09:56,916 Speaker 3: The classic two miracle business plan, right. 165 00:09:57,076 --> 00:09:59,836 Speaker 1: Because fusion is not a thing, like there is not 166 00:09:59,876 --> 00:10:01,636 Speaker 1: commercial fusion. People are working on it. 167 00:10:01,676 --> 00:10:04,396 Speaker 2: There's a lot of money pouring into it, but it's 168 00:10:04,436 --> 00:10:08,236 Speaker 2: not happening. So that's one miracle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's 169 00:10:08,276 --> 00:10:12,076 Speaker 2: the one miracle. The second is the moon. But what 170 00:10:12,236 --> 00:10:16,316 Speaker 2: happened since then is that the Artemis program was created 171 00:10:16,916 --> 00:10:23,916 Speaker 2: by NASA and there's money being invested in lunar landers, 172 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:31,076 Speaker 2: lunar rovers, and all lunar infrastructure. That's one miracle eliminated exactly. 173 00:10:31,156 --> 00:10:33,196 Speaker 2: What's the other miracle that gets eliminated? 174 00:10:33,916 --> 00:10:36,276 Speaker 3: Well, so the fusion energy part of it. 175 00:10:36,356 --> 00:10:40,196 Speaker 5: We realized that we could build a pretty good business 176 00:10:40,676 --> 00:10:44,036 Speaker 5: to support quantum computing, because the truth is, over the 177 00:10:44,076 --> 00:10:47,956 Speaker 5: next ten to twenty years, there will be people scaling 178 00:10:47,996 --> 00:10:51,476 Speaker 5: up quantum computers from one hundred cubits to one thousand, 179 00:10:51,556 --> 00:10:54,916 Speaker 5: to ten thousand to a million and a million cubit 180 00:10:54,996 --> 00:10:59,196 Speaker 5: quantum computer will need as much helium three as we 181 00:10:59,356 --> 00:11:04,076 Speaker 5: produce in the United States in one year. So the 182 00:11:04,156 --> 00:11:07,756 Speaker 5: future I want to see is a data center full 183 00:11:07,796 --> 00:11:12,756 Speaker 5: of quantum million Cuba quantum computers. But the fact is 184 00:11:12,796 --> 00:11:14,676 Speaker 5: we won't be able to support that future with the 185 00:11:14,716 --> 00:11:15,996 Speaker 5: helium three we have on Earth. 186 00:11:16,076 --> 00:11:18,596 Speaker 2: Is that data center in space in the future of 187 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:19,276 Speaker 2: your dreams? 188 00:11:20,436 --> 00:11:22,556 Speaker 5: Well, I'm not going to go there, Jacob. It might, 189 00:11:22,796 --> 00:11:27,436 Speaker 5: it might, but that data center with you know, quantum 190 00:11:27,516 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 5: computers will need a lot of helium three, and we'll 191 00:11:31,956 --> 00:11:32,796 Speaker 5: need to go to space. 192 00:11:32,836 --> 00:11:34,076 Speaker 3: We'll need to go to the Moon to get that 193 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:34,716 Speaker 3: helium three. 194 00:11:35,036 --> 00:11:38,676 Speaker 2: Okay, So I got the plan. That's the plan. I 195 00:11:38,716 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 2: can see it on the whiteboard with a few arrows. 196 00:11:44,436 --> 00:11:46,636 Speaker 2: When what do you have to do to actually make 197 00:11:46,676 --> 00:11:47,196 Speaker 2: that happen? 198 00:11:47,396 --> 00:11:47,556 Speaker 3: Right? 199 00:11:47,596 --> 00:11:50,436 Speaker 2: So you mentioned that lots of other people are building 200 00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:53,236 Speaker 2: lots of other things, Right, you're building some piece of it, 201 00:11:53,316 --> 00:11:55,876 Speaker 2: So like, what do you have to figure out? 202 00:11:57,356 --> 00:12:01,956 Speaker 5: Yeah, so ten years ago, there was no lunar landers 203 00:12:01,956 --> 00:12:04,156 Speaker 5: being built in the US. There was no lunar rovers 204 00:12:04,156 --> 00:12:08,396 Speaker 5: being built in the US. Today there's many companies building those. 205 00:12:08,476 --> 00:12:12,156 Speaker 5: And if you think of the technologies we need as 206 00:12:12,196 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 5: a tech stack, that rover provides the wheels, the transmission 207 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:17,476 Speaker 5: to drive train the mobility that. 208 00:12:17,396 --> 00:12:18,596 Speaker 3: We need and we need. 209 00:12:19,196 --> 00:12:23,236 Speaker 5: What we need is we need to excavate large volumes 210 00:12:23,276 --> 00:12:27,156 Speaker 5: of lunar soil regolith. We need to sort it. We 211 00:12:27,196 --> 00:12:30,116 Speaker 5: need to sort the rocks from the sand because we 212 00:12:30,196 --> 00:12:35,276 Speaker 5: know that the solar wind implants the helium three and 213 00:12:35,356 --> 00:12:40,676 Speaker 5: other solar wind gases in the outer nanometer thick rind. 214 00:12:40,636 --> 00:12:42,196 Speaker 3: Of the of the lunar regolith. 215 00:12:42,476 --> 00:12:46,196 Speaker 2: The lunar regolith is the dirt basically on the Moon. Yes, 216 00:12:46,916 --> 00:12:50,356 Speaker 2: an outer nanometer you're just saying, in the tiniest sliver 217 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:52,756 Speaker 2: of the surface is where the helium three is. 218 00:12:53,116 --> 00:12:55,476 Speaker 5: Yeah, So you want to get the rocks out because 219 00:12:55,516 --> 00:12:59,396 Speaker 5: the rocks aren't going to be the high volume producer 220 00:12:59,436 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 5: of the helium three. 221 00:13:00,236 --> 00:13:01,796 Speaker 3: Do you want to get the fine sand? 222 00:13:02,836 --> 00:13:05,276 Speaker 5: Then we want to do a mechanical process where we 223 00:13:05,356 --> 00:13:08,636 Speaker 5: crush the regolith and we release those solar wind gases, 224 00:13:09,196 --> 00:13:12,996 Speaker 5: and then we cryogenically separate the helium three from the helium. 225 00:13:13,396 --> 00:13:16,396 Speaker 5: And that last step, that cryogenic separation is. 226 00:13:16,636 --> 00:13:19,236 Speaker 1: That part sounds harder than the other parts. 227 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:23,556 Speaker 5: It is, and we've developed we've developed it here in Seattle. 228 00:13:24,276 --> 00:13:28,156 Speaker 5: We're operating below two kelvin, which is just you know, 229 00:13:28,156 --> 00:13:32,756 Speaker 5: two degrees above absolute zero. And what we've demonstrated is 230 00:13:32,796 --> 00:13:39,596 Speaker 5: that we can enrich helium three helium mixtures from very 231 00:13:39,716 --> 00:13:42,876 Speaker 5: very low point zero zero zero zero two percent helium 232 00:13:42,876 --> 00:13:47,076 Speaker 5: three and helium to ninety nine percent. And what that 233 00:13:47,116 --> 00:13:51,316 Speaker 5: represents is that this needle in a haystack, in the 234 00:13:51,356 --> 00:13:53,556 Speaker 5: helium three we have on Earth, the very very trace 235 00:13:53,596 --> 00:13:57,636 Speaker 5: amounts of helium three, we can go use this technology 236 00:13:57,636 --> 00:14:00,796 Speaker 5: that we've envisioned, we've developed for the Moon, but we 237 00:14:00,836 --> 00:14:03,156 Speaker 5: can use it on Earth in a great a helium plant. 238 00:14:03,476 --> 00:14:07,236 Speaker 5: We can extract helium three in twenty twenty eight before 239 00:14:07,276 --> 00:14:10,236 Speaker 5: we get to the Moon, and we can and sell 240 00:14:10,236 --> 00:14:13,156 Speaker 5: that helium three to our customers in the quantum computing industry. 241 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:15,276 Speaker 2: Wait, just so I felt it when you say you 242 00:14:15,316 --> 00:14:17,996 Speaker 2: can extract helium three in twenty twenty eight before you 243 00:14:18,036 --> 00:14:19,316 Speaker 2: get to the Moon. Do you mean you're going to 244 00:14:19,316 --> 00:14:21,756 Speaker 2: be in the helium three business on Earth just by 245 00:14:21,796 --> 00:14:25,116 Speaker 2: extracting the trace amount exact helium three that are here. 246 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:26,636 Speaker 3: Yep. 247 00:14:26,796 --> 00:14:29,796 Speaker 5: Yeah, And we kind of we came upon this wrinkle 248 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:33,276 Speaker 5: and the business plan as we were working back from 249 00:14:33,396 --> 00:14:36,556 Speaker 5: the original Moon architecture. And that's that's how a lot 250 00:14:36,596 --> 00:14:39,596 Speaker 5: of these things happen. You know, you have this grand vision, 251 00:14:39,636 --> 00:14:46,956 Speaker 5: you work backward from it. You start developing core technologies excavation, size, sorting, extraction, separation, 252 00:14:47,556 --> 00:14:52,236 Speaker 5: and then we realized, hey, well this cryogenic separation process, 253 00:14:52,796 --> 00:14:53,636 Speaker 5: which is hard on. 254 00:14:53,556 --> 00:14:56,396 Speaker 3: The Moon, it'll work on Earth too. 255 00:14:57,956 --> 00:15:01,876 Speaker 5: The problem is there's when there's a million tons of 256 00:15:01,916 --> 00:15:05,036 Speaker 5: healium three on the Moon, there's very very small amounts 257 00:15:05,076 --> 00:15:08,556 Speaker 5: on Earth. So we can we can maybe triple the 258 00:15:08,716 --> 00:15:12,036 Speaker 5: US apply of helium three if we maximize, if we 259 00:15:12,116 --> 00:15:14,956 Speaker 5: pull every molecule of helium three out, But on the 260 00:15:14,956 --> 00:15:17,316 Speaker 5: Moon we can ten x one hundred x thousand x 261 00:15:17,356 --> 00:15:20,716 Speaker 5: ten thousand x the helium three production and we can 262 00:15:20,796 --> 00:15:24,356 Speaker 5: do that in a in a managed, scaled fashion to 263 00:15:24,476 --> 00:15:26,916 Speaker 5: allow the market to catch up. So we want, we 264 00:15:26,956 --> 00:15:28,476 Speaker 5: want to operate on the Moon, and we want to 265 00:15:28,476 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 5: make space resources available on Earth and in space to 266 00:15:32,116 --> 00:15:33,476 Speaker 5: solve some of these big problems. 267 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:36,196 Speaker 3: And that's what we're focused on. 268 00:15:36,276 --> 00:15:38,356 Speaker 2: So when you're going to send something to the Moon, 269 00:15:38,436 --> 00:15:39,476 Speaker 2: when did you get to go to the. 270 00:15:39,396 --> 00:15:42,756 Speaker 3: Moon, Well, we yeah, great question. 271 00:15:42,836 --> 00:15:45,156 Speaker 5: We have a we have a camera that we're going 272 00:15:45,196 --> 00:15:48,476 Speaker 5: to send this fall with a company called Astra Lab. 273 00:15:48,756 --> 00:15:51,836 Speaker 5: We developed it with NASA Ames Research Center in San Francisco, 274 00:15:52,356 --> 00:15:54,876 Speaker 5: Mountain View. We're going to land on the South Pole 275 00:15:55,276 --> 00:16:00,116 Speaker 5: with Astra Lab and our camera. Our camera will image 276 00:16:00,156 --> 00:16:03,476 Speaker 5: the surface as the Astra Lab rover is driving around, 277 00:16:03,556 --> 00:16:05,956 Speaker 5: and we'll bring those images back and we'll look and 278 00:16:06,036 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 5: we'll use our measurements to correlate and get better under 279 00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:13,156 Speaker 5: standings of where helium three is now. We're not sure 280 00:16:13,196 --> 00:16:15,316 Speaker 5: how much helium three is down at the South Pole, 281 00:16:15,596 --> 00:16:18,756 Speaker 5: but this is this is an opportunity for us to 282 00:16:18,836 --> 00:16:20,036 Speaker 5: do a very early mission. 283 00:16:21,756 --> 00:16:24,436 Speaker 3: The next thing and the hardware behind me the lab 284 00:16:24,476 --> 00:16:25,196 Speaker 3: that I'm in right. 285 00:16:25,116 --> 00:16:27,516 Speaker 5: Now, is we're building up a payload that we will 286 00:16:27,516 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 5: want to fly to the Moon in twenty twenty eight. 287 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:33,836 Speaker 5: So it's about a forty kilogram payload, and it's going 288 00:16:33,836 --> 00:16:36,716 Speaker 5: to include a robotic arm, and it's going to include 289 00:16:36,756 --> 00:16:42,516 Speaker 5: several devices. One device will sort regulith, one device will 290 00:16:42,516 --> 00:16:45,836 Speaker 5: mechanically process the regulith, and one device will heat the 291 00:16:45,836 --> 00:16:48,876 Speaker 5: regolith up to nine hundred and fifty degrees centigrade. And 292 00:16:49,076 --> 00:16:52,356 Speaker 5: all three of those processes are going to release solar 293 00:16:52,396 --> 00:16:55,836 Speaker 5: wind gases. So this this mission will do two things 294 00:16:55,836 --> 00:17:00,356 Speaker 5: for us. One is it'll demonstrate that we know how 295 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 5: much helium three is in a certain landing area on 296 00:17:03,436 --> 00:17:06,476 Speaker 5: the moon, and two will demonstrate some of our core 297 00:17:06,516 --> 00:17:11,836 Speaker 5: technology are sorting our mechanical processing and reduce risk for 298 00:17:11,916 --> 00:17:16,476 Speaker 5: the eventual deployment of a robotic harvesters, a fleet of 299 00:17:16,596 --> 00:17:20,716 Speaker 5: robotic harvesters that will operate for many years processing the 300 00:17:20,756 --> 00:17:25,156 Speaker 5: soil and extracting the heliot three. Once we have that 301 00:17:25,196 --> 00:17:28,316 Speaker 5: fleet of harvesters, then we we you know, establish a 302 00:17:28,396 --> 00:17:32,396 Speaker 5: head start. Then we'll start to add technologies that will 303 00:17:32,436 --> 00:17:37,436 Speaker 5: extract water and make propellant, extract metals and start to 304 00:17:37,476 --> 00:17:41,036 Speaker 5: service other markets in space as those markets. 305 00:17:40,676 --> 00:17:43,916 Speaker 3: You know, begin to begin to grow and take hold. 306 00:17:45,276 --> 00:17:47,716 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the interesting things about your business 307 00:17:47,876 --> 00:17:51,316 Speaker 2: is you know, you're creating one piece of this whole 308 00:17:51,756 --> 00:17:57,756 Speaker 2: space economy that many parts of which don't really exist yet, right, 309 00:17:57,876 --> 00:18:00,836 Speaker 2: like completely getting to space that exists, but the like 310 00:18:01,876 --> 00:18:04,636 Speaker 2: going back and forth to the moon in an industrial way, 311 00:18:04,716 --> 00:18:07,276 Speaker 2: like other people are working on other pieces of that, 312 00:18:07,316 --> 00:18:08,956 Speaker 2: but it's not a real thing yet. 313 00:18:08,956 --> 00:18:10,716 Speaker 1: It's not an industry yet, right. 314 00:18:10,636 --> 00:18:14,556 Speaker 2: And so so talk me through, like what other pieces 315 00:18:14,556 --> 00:18:18,076 Speaker 2: do other people have to figure out for your. 316 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:18,756 Speaker 1: Business to work? 317 00:18:20,036 --> 00:18:23,916 Speaker 5: So right now, for we envision in the twenty thirties, 318 00:18:23,956 --> 00:18:28,316 Speaker 5: we'll have a rocket based system that's bringing a small 319 00:18:28,356 --> 00:18:31,756 Speaker 5: spacecraft back to Earth, re entering ther Earth's atmosphere, just 320 00:18:31,796 --> 00:18:35,036 Speaker 5: like Artemis two is going to do today, but it's 321 00:18:35,356 --> 00:18:38,516 Speaker 5: smaller with a payload, with not people, so it's a 322 00:18:38,556 --> 00:18:40,076 Speaker 5: little different risk profile. 323 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:42,996 Speaker 3: And we'll be doing that four or five times a year. 324 00:18:43,316 --> 00:18:48,036 Speaker 2: And we meaning not your company, but what America, the world. 325 00:18:49,116 --> 00:18:51,356 Speaker 3: We meaning inter Loom, like this is what we need 326 00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:51,636 Speaker 3: to do. 327 00:18:52,036 --> 00:18:55,196 Speaker 5: Okay, we might be able to buy that service in 328 00:18:55,236 --> 00:18:58,836 Speaker 5: the future, but right now we're planning to build it, okay. 329 00:18:59,236 --> 00:19:02,956 Speaker 5: And it's a small system that will carry twenty five kilograms, 330 00:19:03,036 --> 00:19:06,716 Speaker 5: so that's enough mass for a pressure bottle and say 331 00:19:07,076 --> 00:19:09,356 Speaker 5: three to five kilograms of helium three, which which is 332 00:19:09,836 --> 00:19:12,236 Speaker 5: you know, a very very valuable payload. 333 00:19:12,476 --> 00:19:14,516 Speaker 2: Just so I can picture it, like you got this 334 00:19:14,676 --> 00:19:17,436 Speaker 2: rocket coming back from the Moon to deliver helium three. 335 00:19:17,596 --> 00:19:20,476 Speaker 1: Like how big is the like? Do I picture a 336 00:19:20,516 --> 00:19:22,876 Speaker 1: tank like a scuba diver wears? What am I even picturing? 337 00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:24,196 Speaker 1: What do you put the helium three in? 338 00:19:24,516 --> 00:19:27,196 Speaker 5: It would be roughly a sphere that's a little less 339 00:19:27,236 --> 00:19:28,316 Speaker 5: than a meter in diameter. 340 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:31,916 Speaker 2: Okay, that's amazing, and you're going to the Moon and 341 00:19:31,956 --> 00:19:35,156 Speaker 2: back for that little ball of of helium. 342 00:19:34,916 --> 00:19:38,756 Speaker 5: And it's going to be worth fifty one hundred million dollars. 343 00:19:38,836 --> 00:19:44,116 Speaker 5: So and you sell that into a market that's growing 344 00:19:44,196 --> 00:19:46,236 Speaker 5: and really looking for it. 345 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:48,836 Speaker 3: So that's that's what we're counting on. 346 00:19:53,116 --> 00:20:07,156 Speaker 6: We'll be back in just a minute. Who else is 347 00:20:07,236 --> 00:20:08,156 Speaker 6: trying to do this? 348 00:20:09,476 --> 00:20:09,756 Speaker 3: You know? 349 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:14,236 Speaker 5: Our biggest competitor, I would say, is probably China. You know, 350 00:20:14,436 --> 00:20:22,396 Speaker 5: the Chinese are talking about space resource extraction, including helium three. 351 00:20:22,476 --> 00:20:25,676 Speaker 5: They published papers, they've already demonstrated over the last five 352 00:20:25,756 --> 00:20:28,436 Speaker 5: six years that they can bring samples back from the 353 00:20:28,436 --> 00:20:33,356 Speaker 5: Moon and they can operate spacecraft twenty four to seven 354 00:20:33,436 --> 00:20:34,276 Speaker 5: during the lunar. 355 00:20:34,196 --> 00:20:36,836 Speaker 3: Night using nuclear batteries. 356 00:20:37,076 --> 00:20:39,116 Speaker 5: You know, the reason I bring up China is because 357 00:20:40,036 --> 00:20:42,916 Speaker 5: thirty forty years ago, we sort of made decisions in 358 00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 5: the US that seeded the rare earth elements. 359 00:20:45,956 --> 00:20:47,436 Speaker 3: Supply chain to China. 360 00:20:48,476 --> 00:20:52,356 Speaker 5: You know, and today the processing of those rare earth elements, 361 00:20:52,476 --> 00:20:55,476 Speaker 5: ninety plus percent of it is controlled by China. 362 00:20:55,556 --> 00:20:55,676 Speaker 3: Right. 363 00:20:55,716 --> 00:20:57,796 Speaker 2: The key thing about rare earth elements is they're not 364 00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,596 Speaker 2: that rare. Right, China is winning on rare earth elements 365 00:21:00,716 --> 00:21:03,716 Speaker 2: because they have the industrial capacity, not because the elements 366 00:21:03,716 --> 00:21:05,556 Speaker 2: are in the ground there and not elsewhere. 367 00:21:05,916 --> 00:21:06,156 Speaker 3: Yep. 368 00:21:06,396 --> 00:21:08,876 Speaker 5: And you see a lot of headlines that the US 369 00:21:08,956 --> 00:21:12,636 Speaker 5: got is investing billions of dollars in rebuilding the rare 370 00:21:12,796 --> 00:21:17,956 Speaker 5: elements supply chain in the US. By focusing on helium 371 00:21:17,956 --> 00:21:20,676 Speaker 5: three right now and making it a priority, I think 372 00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:24,076 Speaker 5: we can avoid that mistake of the past that was made, 373 00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:25,436 Speaker 5: and I think it's worth it. 374 00:21:26,196 --> 00:21:28,156 Speaker 2: What you're doing is hard, and you have to figure 375 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 2: out a lot of things when you think about what 376 00:21:32,276 --> 00:21:34,636 Speaker 2: might go wrong or why it might not work. 377 00:21:34,876 --> 00:21:36,916 Speaker 1: What do you think about? 378 00:21:38,076 --> 00:21:42,036 Speaker 5: Well, I think five years ago I would have thought, 379 00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:46,196 Speaker 5: are my projections Are our projections about the future. 380 00:21:47,516 --> 00:21:48,316 Speaker 3: Going to come true? 381 00:21:48,676 --> 00:21:53,396 Speaker 5: You know, like we're dependent on many other companies, we're 382 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:54,356 Speaker 5: dependent on NASA. 383 00:21:54,516 --> 00:21:57,836 Speaker 3: So we've done our best to project things, and then you. 384 00:21:59,316 --> 00:22:02,716 Speaker 5: Make sure, like in any other business, are there adjacencies 385 00:22:03,876 --> 00:22:06,836 Speaker 5: where you can make some money along the path to 386 00:22:06,916 --> 00:22:10,356 Speaker 5: your big vision. One of those is extracting helium three 387 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:15,876 Speaker 5: from terrestrial helium. So we're taking our prygenic distillation technology, 388 00:22:15,916 --> 00:22:18,796 Speaker 5: we're packaging it up and we're plugging it into helium 389 00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:23,916 Speaker 5: plants on Earth. The Air Force is backing network, but 390 00:22:24,396 --> 00:22:26,516 Speaker 5: we have investors that are really interested in that. 391 00:22:26,796 --> 00:22:29,196 Speaker 3: Another thing is using. 392 00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:32,956 Speaker 5: Our knowledge of excavation on the Moon to apply to 393 00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 5: construction of a moon base. So NASA just announced a 394 00:22:36,516 --> 00:22:40,476 Speaker 5: three phase, thirty billion dollars moon based program, and we 395 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:42,076 Speaker 5: intend to be a part of it. And we want 396 00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:46,876 Speaker 5: to demonstrate grading a surface, compacting a surface, digging a trench, 397 00:22:47,316 --> 00:22:51,236 Speaker 5: building a berm remotely on the surface of the Moon, 398 00:22:51,276 --> 00:22:53,836 Speaker 5: which I think is going to do. You think Artemis 399 00:22:53,836 --> 00:22:57,236 Speaker 5: too is exciting. I think watching construction happen on the 400 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,596 Speaker 5: Moon is going to be a pretty fascinating thing for 401 00:23:01,276 --> 00:23:04,436 Speaker 5: people to watch and witness and witness a part of history, 402 00:23:04,476 --> 00:23:05,076 Speaker 5: and we want. 403 00:23:04,916 --> 00:23:05,556 Speaker 3: To be a part of that. 404 00:23:05,876 --> 00:23:07,436 Speaker 1: When do you think there will be a base on 405 00:23:07,476 --> 00:23:07,876 Speaker 1: the Moon. 406 00:23:09,316 --> 00:23:13,716 Speaker 5: So NASA's administrator, Jared Isaacman announced a new program to 407 00:23:14,516 --> 00:23:18,676 Speaker 5: start increasing the number of flights to the Moon, robotic 408 00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:22,516 Speaker 5: flights to the Moon, starting in twenty twenty seven. He's 409 00:23:22,556 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 5: described the early phases of a moon base is looking 410 00:23:26,396 --> 00:23:29,156 Speaker 5: like a junk yard, and I think that I think 411 00:23:29,196 --> 00:23:32,916 Speaker 5: it's appropriate to set expectations really low on what this 412 00:23:32,996 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 5: is going to look like. It's not going to look 413 00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 5: like your science fiction Moon base. It's going to look 414 00:23:37,596 --> 00:23:40,836 Speaker 5: like a series of demonstrations, some of them that work 415 00:23:40,876 --> 00:23:44,436 Speaker 5: and some of them that don't, and he's using he's 416 00:23:44,476 --> 00:23:47,956 Speaker 5: putting to work these companies that NASA has enabled over 417 00:23:47,956 --> 00:23:52,596 Speaker 5: the years that are building small cargo landers, and we'll 418 00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:55,276 Speaker 5: be working with them. We'll be working with the companies 419 00:23:55,276 --> 00:23:59,356 Speaker 5: building lunar rovers to put our tools for processing the 420 00:23:59,396 --> 00:24:02,356 Speaker 5: lunar soil and moving the lunar soil, and we'll be 421 00:24:02,396 --> 00:24:02,916 Speaker 5: a part of that. 422 00:24:03,316 --> 00:24:05,356 Speaker 2: When I asked you a minute ago what you're worried about, 423 00:24:05,476 --> 00:24:07,436 Speaker 2: I think you told me what you were worried about 424 00:24:07,476 --> 00:24:08,356 Speaker 2: five years ago. 425 00:24:09,396 --> 00:24:10,716 Speaker 1: What you're worried about now. 426 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:14,716 Speaker 2: Surely there's a lot to worry about, giving your job 427 00:24:14,756 --> 00:24:16,836 Speaker 2: and the difficulty of what you're trying to do. 428 00:24:18,396 --> 00:24:21,636 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of technical risk, a lot 429 00:24:21,636 --> 00:24:26,316 Speaker 5: of dependencies we have on other companies. The Moon is 430 00:24:26,356 --> 00:24:30,876 Speaker 5: an unforgiving place. It's extremely hot and cold. The lunar 431 00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:33,756 Speaker 5: day lasts for two weeks and then the lunar night 432 00:24:33,876 --> 00:24:39,476 Speaker 5: lasts for two weeks. There's radiation, there's hard vacuum, there's dust. 433 00:24:40,716 --> 00:24:41,876 Speaker 3: It's very different from Earth. 434 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:43,956 Speaker 5: So we're going to learn a lot as we go 435 00:24:44,876 --> 00:24:49,716 Speaker 5: while we solve some of the big challenges around dust mitigation, 436 00:24:50,636 --> 00:24:55,396 Speaker 5: heap rejection, operating in a vacuum, all those things. 437 00:24:55,476 --> 00:24:59,756 Speaker 2: It's hard, just nuts and bolts, like literal nuts and bolts, 438 00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:01,596 Speaker 2: engineering challenges. 439 00:25:01,556 --> 00:25:03,756 Speaker 5: Hard engineering, and we've got to raise money to go 440 00:25:03,796 --> 00:25:06,316 Speaker 5: do all this. So, you know, we have to convince 441 00:25:06,316 --> 00:25:09,156 Speaker 5: outside investors that this is the this is the the 442 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:11,396 Speaker 5: right thing to go spend their money on while they're 443 00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:17,796 Speaker 5: watching AI and defense tech are big areas where the 444 00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:21,956 Speaker 5: venture capital, you know, frontier tech investors are focusing their 445 00:25:21,996 --> 00:25:25,396 Speaker 5: time on. And I think in the coming weeks months, year, 446 00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:27,956 Speaker 5: we're going to start to see a little more attention 447 00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:31,156 Speaker 5: paid to space tech, especially with the SpaceX IPO coming up. 448 00:25:32,636 --> 00:25:33,836 Speaker 3: It's an exciting time for us. 449 00:25:33,836 --> 00:25:36,596 Speaker 5: So how do we make sure we're positioned right to 450 00:25:37,116 --> 00:25:37,916 Speaker 5: take advantage of that. 451 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:40,436 Speaker 2: So you've been working in the space industry, in the 452 00:25:40,436 --> 00:25:45,436 Speaker 2: space space for thirty five years, Like this whole industry 453 00:25:45,516 --> 00:25:47,916 Speaker 2: such as it is now has emerged since you started 454 00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:50,236 Speaker 2: working in space, right, it's so different than when you started. 455 00:25:51,156 --> 00:25:52,996 Speaker 1: What is surprising to you? 456 00:25:53,076 --> 00:25:54,876 Speaker 2: Like when you look at the way the world is now, 457 00:25:55,716 --> 00:25:57,156 Speaker 2: how is it different than you might have thought it 458 00:25:57,156 --> 00:25:57,556 Speaker 2: would be? 459 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:03,756 Speaker 5: I told someone yesterday that when I started my career, 460 00:26:03,796 --> 00:26:07,356 Speaker 5: I thought I'd missed the Golden Age. You know, Apollo 461 00:26:07,436 --> 00:26:11,036 Speaker 5: had happened, and NASA working on Shuttle Shuttle was routine, 462 00:26:12,516 --> 00:26:14,876 Speaker 5: and then and then all of a sudden, some things 463 00:26:14,876 --> 00:26:18,436 Speaker 5: happen where, oh, you know, it's not so routine. We 464 00:26:18,436 --> 00:26:21,196 Speaker 5: can't really you know, take our eye off the ball 465 00:26:21,236 --> 00:26:25,236 Speaker 5: here because this is still extremely risky and we don't 466 00:26:25,236 --> 00:26:28,756 Speaker 5: have this NASA doesn't have the support that we needed 467 00:26:29,356 --> 00:26:30,436 Speaker 5: that we had in the past. 468 00:26:30,716 --> 00:26:33,356 Speaker 2: You mean, the space shuttle blew up. Just to be clear, 469 00:26:33,436 --> 00:26:35,316 Speaker 2: not to be crass, but that's what you're referring to. 470 00:26:35,516 --> 00:26:38,436 Speaker 5: And yes, I was in college. I had just you know, 471 00:26:38,716 --> 00:26:42,556 Speaker 5: done my first internship with NASA at that time. Yes, 472 00:26:42,796 --> 00:26:46,276 Speaker 5: and the shuttle blew up, and it's like, oh, it's 473 00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:51,036 Speaker 5: so the space industry is so hard, Like it's just people. 474 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:53,436 Speaker 5: You take things take a long time, they take a 475 00:26:53,476 --> 00:26:58,476 Speaker 5: lot of money, people persevere. It's a it's not it's 476 00:26:58,636 --> 00:27:00,276 Speaker 5: it's not an industry for the. 477 00:27:00,196 --> 00:27:03,236 Speaker 3: Faint of heart. The work is hard. 478 00:27:03,716 --> 00:27:06,196 Speaker 5: It takes a lot of effort, a lot of grinding, 479 00:27:07,116 --> 00:27:10,956 Speaker 5: and so seeing that there's so many people working in it, 480 00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:16,156 Speaker 5: we've almost refreshed the entire space talent density, space talent 481 00:27:16,196 --> 00:27:19,916 Speaker 5: base over the last ten to fifteen years, and I'm 482 00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:22,956 Speaker 5: proud to have been a part of that, building Blue 483 00:27:22,956 --> 00:27:28,916 Speaker 5: Origin and in the next space seeing seeing operating on 484 00:27:28,956 --> 00:27:33,156 Speaker 5: the lunar surface as a real career path for young 485 00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:35,836 Speaker 5: people coming out of college. That's the next thing that 486 00:27:35,876 --> 00:27:37,476 Speaker 5: I'm really excited about being a part of. 487 00:27:37,796 --> 00:27:40,476 Speaker 1: People graduate and say I want to work on the Moon. 488 00:27:42,876 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 5: I want to build robots and systems that operate on 489 00:27:45,596 --> 00:27:49,236 Speaker 5: the Moon and build build the next factories in space. 490 00:27:49,276 --> 00:27:53,116 Speaker 5: I think that's a great thing to put on the resume. 491 00:27:53,316 --> 00:27:58,436 Speaker 3: And so come talk to us. 492 00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:04,196 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. 493 00:28:14,676 --> 00:28:19,116 Speaker 2: Let's finish with the lightning round. What's one thing you 494 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:21,396 Speaker 2: learned working for Jeff Bezos? 495 00:28:22,996 --> 00:28:30,756 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, keep you cool, Jeff is uh yeah, here here, 496 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:31,076 Speaker 5: you know. 497 00:28:32,396 --> 00:28:37,596 Speaker 3: I I love that answer. Jeff's wonderful. 498 00:28:37,676 --> 00:28:42,756 Speaker 5: I really really love working Jeff. He has I just 499 00:28:42,876 --> 00:28:47,276 Speaker 5: I just listened to another podcast. It was with Jeff Wilkie, 500 00:28:47,316 --> 00:28:51,156 Speaker 5: who ran Amazon retail, and there was a time when 501 00:28:51,196 --> 00:28:54,316 Speaker 5: he went to Jeff Bezos and said, you're coming up 502 00:28:54,356 --> 00:28:59,956 Speaker 5: with so many ideas rapidly that it's it's hurting the company. 503 00:29:00,396 --> 00:29:02,956 Speaker 5: And I want to qualify this by saying, when I 504 00:29:03,036 --> 00:29:07,356 Speaker 5: ran Blue Origin, we spent nine years below two hundred people. 505 00:29:07,876 --> 00:29:11,036 Speaker 5: So we were a very small company being you know, 506 00:29:11,476 --> 00:29:14,836 Speaker 5: led by me, but owned by Jeff who would come 507 00:29:14,876 --> 00:29:21,316 Speaker 5: in and had new ideas all the time and fabulous ideas. 508 00:29:21,396 --> 00:29:23,316 Speaker 5: I wanted to do all of them, but we just 509 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:26,036 Speaker 5: never we were never at the scale to do it. 510 00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:29,796 Speaker 5: But a lot of those, you know, it's hard when 511 00:29:29,836 --> 00:29:32,396 Speaker 5: you've got always got new ideas coming at you. It 512 00:29:32,916 --> 00:29:37,956 Speaker 5: does really affect you know, it does affect the pace. 513 00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,836 Speaker 1: You think we'll find extraterrestrial life in your lifetime? 514 00:29:43,916 --> 00:29:47,596 Speaker 5: I hope we still keep looking, and I hope we 515 00:29:47,636 --> 00:29:51,556 Speaker 5: continue to look. And you know, I don't know, I 516 00:29:51,556 --> 00:29:54,556 Speaker 5: don't know the answer to that, but it's worth looking. 517 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:55,996 Speaker 1: Do you think you'll go to space? 518 00:29:58,116 --> 00:30:00,756 Speaker 3: Me personally, probably. 519 00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:04,516 Speaker 5: You know, the opportunity to go to space would have 520 00:30:04,516 --> 00:30:06,796 Speaker 5: been on New Shepherd, the Blue Origin. 521 00:30:07,316 --> 00:30:10,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have that tuned it? Did you? Did 522 00:30:10,396 --> 00:30:11,516 Speaker 1: you choose not to go? 523 00:30:11,756 --> 00:30:15,076 Speaker 5: I did not have that opportunity, So but I would 524 00:30:15,116 --> 00:30:18,276 Speaker 5: say that that would have been the one opportunity where 525 00:30:19,196 --> 00:30:23,076 Speaker 5: you know, it's a vehicle that I was involved in building. 526 00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:26,516 Speaker 5: I trust the team that designed and operated it, you know, 527 00:30:26,596 --> 00:30:30,636 Speaker 5: one hundred percent. And unfortunately Blue decided to pause that 528 00:30:30,676 --> 00:30:33,956 Speaker 5: program and they're not they're not flying that anymore. So 529 00:30:33,996 --> 00:30:36,116 Speaker 5: I don't think my you know, i'll have a chance 530 00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:38,596 Speaker 5: to go to go to space in my my lifetime, 531 00:30:38,636 --> 00:30:40,476 Speaker 5: but I think a lot of other people will. 532 00:30:40,596 --> 00:30:46,836 Speaker 1: So, yeah, what's the secret? What what's one secret to 533 00:30:46,876 --> 00:30:48,156 Speaker 1: running a barbecue restaurant? 534 00:30:50,636 --> 00:30:54,036 Speaker 3: You you've done your your your homework. 535 00:30:56,076 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 5: So my grandfather and my dad both operated restaurants and 536 00:31:01,396 --> 00:31:05,036 Speaker 5: barbecue restaurants in Detroit. I worked for my dad for 537 00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:10,596 Speaker 5: three or four years through high school. You know, the 538 00:31:10,596 --> 00:31:14,236 Speaker 5: the amount of work involved and not just being an entrepreneur, 539 00:31:14,276 --> 00:31:17,716 Speaker 5: but owning a restaurant where you're serving people and your 540 00:31:17,756 --> 00:31:19,916 Speaker 5: busiest day of year is on Super Bowl Sunday when 541 00:31:19,916 --> 00:31:22,396 Speaker 5: you just want to be home watching the game. Though, 542 00:31:22,476 --> 00:31:28,596 Speaker 5: those are you know, the amount of work to go, 543 00:31:28,796 --> 00:31:31,756 Speaker 5: you know, to go do that, and you're hiring high 544 00:31:31,756 --> 00:31:33,916 Speaker 5: school kids like me who want to be somewhere else. 545 00:31:35,156 --> 00:31:38,516 Speaker 5: I think I think those are you know, some of 546 00:31:38,556 --> 00:31:40,156 Speaker 5: the secrets I took away work. 547 00:31:40,236 --> 00:31:43,476 Speaker 1: The secret is work all the time, not a secret. 548 00:31:43,796 --> 00:31:46,116 Speaker 3: I not a secret. 549 00:31:46,196 --> 00:31:48,396 Speaker 5: But I picked up work ethic from my dad and 550 00:31:48,476 --> 00:31:51,436 Speaker 5: my mom too, and I think I think you need 551 00:31:51,476 --> 00:31:53,396 Speaker 5: to to do do what we're doing here at Interland. 552 00:31:53,436 --> 00:31:55,276 Speaker 3: So it's it's it takes hard work. 553 00:31:56,196 --> 00:31:57,916 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time, good. 554 00:31:57,756 --> 00:31:59,996 Speaker 3: Luck, Thank you, thank you. 555 00:32:00,076 --> 00:32:09,836 Speaker 2: Jacob rob Myerson is the co founder and CEO of 556 00:32:09,996 --> 00:32:13,876 Speaker 2: interlun Today's show was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang and 557 00:32:14,076 --> 00:32:18,156 Speaker 2: edited by Lydia Jane Kott. Our engineer this week was Hansdale. 558 00:32:18,236 --> 00:32:21,556 Speaker 2: She we're always looking for ideas for who to talk 559 00:32:21,596 --> 00:32:24,196 Speaker 2: to and what to cover on the show. You can 560 00:32:24,316 --> 00:32:28,076 Speaker 2: email us at problem at Pushkin dot fm. You can 561 00:32:28,116 --> 00:32:30,556 Speaker 2: find me on x at Jacob Goldstein. You can find 562 00:32:30,596 --> 00:32:33,956 Speaker 2: me on LinkedIn. I'm Jacob Goldstein. Thank you very much 563 00:32:33,956 --> 00:32:36,036 Speaker 2: for listening to the show, and we'll be back next 564 00:32:36,036 --> 00:32:39,436 Speaker 2: week with another episode.