WEBVTT - GM to Join Tesla’s EV Charging Network 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:19.000 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.759 We've been talking a lot about Tesla today with good reason. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.040 Stocks still oh man, it's not one hundred percent anymore. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.920 It's ninety eight point three three percent the gains this year. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.279 Oh you know, should should we not talk about it? 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.520 Well, it's still off, you well, off of its highs 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:36.520 from twenty twenty one. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.879 That's a really good point some perspective. But it's been 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:41.760 on a tear this year and it's on track for 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.680 its record eleventh consecutive session of gains. So it's also 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.040 a longtime favorite among retail traders. So let's get into 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.840 it because there's been some new, some fundamental just following 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.840 on the heels of GM saying it's going to tap 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.240 into Tesla's EV charging network, following also after Ford did 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.320 the same thing. So let's get to it with David Welsh, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.160 Bloomberg News Detroit bureau chief. He is on the phone 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.839 from Detroit. David Great to have you here with Matt 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.640 and myself. So now it looks like, what three billion 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.520 that Tesla stands to gain by twenty thirty because of 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.399 these deals with Ford and GM. How big a nut 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.119 is that When you look at the revenue picture for Tesla. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.080 At the end of the day, it's not huge revenue. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.120 I just think it's to me, it's interesting because you 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.640 look over the past five years and they've made over 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:31.760 five billion selling regulatory credits to the legacy automakers who 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.959 need to meet clean air standards and don't have enough 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.440 electric vehicles to do it. So Tesla just you know, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.639 three billion dollars by twenty thirty. You know, their revenue 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.520 is over eighty billion a year now, They're probably much 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.640 greater by then, So it's you know, it's a few 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.800 percentage points. It's not massive for a growth company like this, 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.600 But to me, it just stands out that they keep 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.680 making money. They making money off their competitors. It's great 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.360 because they have such a lead in electrification that their 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.920 competitors keep giving them ways to either money or direct 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.680 or ways to make money to fund their new products 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:03.680 while they're trying to catch up. 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.440 The Tesla in the first place, So I have so 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.040 many questions. I'm glad you could join us, David. Isn't 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.880 this really cool in that it creates an industry standard? 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.160 Or is it global or is it just the US? 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.480 Right now, it's just us. We'll see what happens globally 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.160 and the thing, I think it'll stretch to Canada as well. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.160 You know, there are Chinese automakers. I think they've got 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.720 their own standard over there, but Tesla does sell evs 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.720 in that market. I'm not totally sure what the confluence 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:42.440 of a different standard is over there. But US market, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.520 it is very cool that we're getting one standard, because honestly, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:49.600 it was kind of dumb that we had more than one. Stupid. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.840 It's like Beta max versus VHS, like right, remember. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.920 The old Yeah, that's a classic business case, you know. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.480 And for that matter, the days when and I was 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.520 I was an Apple geek in the early days, when 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:11.680 you know, you started losing certain programs because it wasn't 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:15.440 compatible with Windows or Microsoft products. Eventually, I think Steve 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.760 Jobs caved and bridge the gap, but for a while, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.840 if you had Apple stuff, you couldn't use certain things. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.959 So speaking of caving, is Delantis next because I'm looking 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.480 forward to Dodge is going to make a charger EV 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.960 that is just going to be insane. Is that going 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.760 to have a Tesla style charging port? 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.000 I bet it will. I mean, I think everybody has 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.800 to cave at this point. You're talking about the number one, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.880 two and three companies and EV sales in the US. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.560 I think Toyota will have to as well. And I 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.160 think everyone is going to have to follow and do this. 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.880 And so it's not they're talking about an adapter to 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.240 begin with and then eventually just making a you know, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.840 putting a Tesla inlet port in the vehicle. It's not 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.840 a radical change for anybody. It's you know, it's not 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:10.600 like they're you know, going from you know, a gasoline 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.320 engine to a jet engine in the car. You know, 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.040 this is this is a plug. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.000 But it creates, like you know, I said to we 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.320 were talking earlier, you know, whether you're like Elon must 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.440 or not. I mean, you can be kind of cookie. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.120 But having said that, is it just the possibility though, 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.640 of creating a significant, even more revenue stream for this company. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.200 And we talked about three billion, but could it even 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:34.040 be more in the future. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.760 Well, so the forecast I used from percent and other 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.080 analysts had forecasts out there kind of some were more 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:47.400 similar to less but directionally similar. And I think Sandlers 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.680 Piper Sanders forecast is looking at not just for GM 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.840 but basically everybody going this way. And I think now 0:04:53.839 --> 0:05:01.279 that doesn't happen, everybody's going to have to eventually well, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.279 I think connects shoot to drop here that could actually 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.680 reduce the amount of revenue growth Tesla gets have. This 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.599 is I think all you know, this patchwork quilp of 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.719 multiple EV charging players that are out there that GM, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.479 Ford and everybody else has partnerships with, they're going to 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:22.400 have to adopt Tesla's standards unbelievable and a CS and 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.120 and when that happens, then consumers will be able to 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:31.120 use other networks that aren't Tesla's but using the Tesla chargeboard. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.200 But you know there's an interim here and you know 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:35.320 medium long term where Tesla's going to be making money 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.799 off of this on they're dedicated chargers and they could 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:40.920 they could for a very long time to come actually, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.840 because if you're driving around and your car can use 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.800 a charge point charger anywhere you see a Tesla and 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.600 that's open, you're going to take it and it's more 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:50.320 reliable too. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:55.880 Yeah, exactly, good stuff, as always, the ever evolving world 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.880 of Tesla and Elon Musk. David Welch, Detroit Buro, chief 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.720 of Bloomberg News, on the phone from Detroit. Really appreciate it, David, 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:01.960 have a. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:02.640 Good thanks, David. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:03.279 How do you? 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:03.680 How are you? 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.680 I mean we talked about this a little bit yesterday, right, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.080 and just what this move? You were you were kind 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:08.919 of like blown away. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.320 Well, I think it's very cool because it creates I 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.120 always applaud kind of universal standards, even when they're not 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.680 necessarily the best choice. For example, VHS, probably the technology 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.680 wasn't as good as beta. For those of you old 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.160 enough to remember what beta was. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.520 Pretty incredible, Yeah, or there was three quarter. Remember there's 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:28.040 beta and time. 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.479 I remember all of them. But it doesn't matter. The 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.560 point is when you get a universal standard, then the 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.719 industry grows much faster. So for me, that's the exciting 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.640 point about this. You know, we're already expecting eighteen percent growth, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.120 near to a fifth of all car sales globally this 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.320 year are going to be EV's So this is just 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.680 going to accelerate that transition, which is exciting and also 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.400 in some ways of concern, right because our grid maybe 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.240 can't handle it if we had that many evs. 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.560 Well, we found that yesterday, right, all the conversations we 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.080 had about the energy markets and you know how old 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.240 our grid is not a news story everybody, but it 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:07.880 just seems like we talk about it, talk about the 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.080 importance of infrastructure, you know, investing, whether it's energy or 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.680 whether it's like ev you know, charging areas, and we 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.480 just kind of forget to do it. And so in 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.560 this case you've got a private sector company doing it. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.480 I'm very pumped also about the next generation of evs 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.600 because I think it'll be the first generation of evs 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:30.720 from other automakers that are really from bottom up designed 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.800 to be electric vehicles. So no longer just ICEE E 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:38.280 vehicles that the company put a battery. ICEE an internal 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.679 combustion engine, got it. So no longer just gas burning 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.560 vehicles that used to have an engine that may just 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.800 put a battery in. So they're designed, purpose built to 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.119 be EV's and they're going to be not only much 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.200 better in terms of everything from range to handling to performance. 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.000 Which is what the what Tesla is, right, Yeah, for sure, 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:56.120 but they're also. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.680 Going to be much more affordable, which is what I'm 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.680 looking forward to, because you know, you go out there 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.800 in the market right now crazy and you see vehicles 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.440 like the BMW I X is really cool, but it's 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.880 ninety thousand dollars to start. Now you're starting to see 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.640 real competition. I'm driving right now a Nissan Ariyah I 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.440 think it's called a r I y am test driving it, 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.960 and it's unbelievably cool. It's elegant in its design, it's fast, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.800 it handles well, it's fun to drive, and it's affordable. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.800 It's like starts at forty five grand or so. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:29.840 So kind of like the idea of when Prius was 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.480 first you know, created as a hybrid, was it thought 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:33.880 about as from the ground up? 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:34.720 Uh? 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.200 Well, that was I'm sure thought about as a Yeah, 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.040 a ground up hybrid vehicle for sure, because if you 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.480 look at and Teslas, you're right, we're ground up, designed 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.559 to be ev EVS after the roadster, because remember the 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.040 roadster they first used was actually a I think a 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.080 Lotus or an Opal body and they put a battery 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:51.320 in it. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.240 This is why we love having you around. You kind 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.080 of know a few things I know if. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.920 You you know your you know a few things too. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.240 No, but I'm with you. I'm looking at the prices 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.000 on things and I'm like, what happened? Am my two spans? 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:03.560 I mean, this is how do you make this a 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.160 mass market car? If we're supposed to ramp up to 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.400 hit certain nut coming? All right, I'm going to hold 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.000 my breath and I can't wait. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.360 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.720 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.839 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.080 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:30.520 We know a lot of news on crypto this week, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.079 To say the least, Matt us really feel like it's 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.720 being thrown into deeper array. You had also Binance today, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.920 Banking partners getting ready to rescind support liquidity drawing up 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:45.800 traders withdrawing tokens from the platform as regulators are clamping 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.520 down on the company and its owner. So it's been 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.319 a week full of some really tough news for the 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:51.200 crypto universe. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:51.439 Yeah. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:57.400 Absolutely. The Coinbase move probably felt more by US investors, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.800 obviously because it's publicly traded here, But ban is the 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.880 big cat in this industry, and if it starts to 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:11.480 lose I guess scale, that's a problem for advancement in 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:12.559 this in crypto. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.360 It does wonder about kind of the latest stress points 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.040 and the viability of the US crypto industry industry. So 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.080 let's get into it with solidus Labs Vice President of 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.600 Regulatory Affairs Kathy Kreninger, also former director of the Consumer 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.319 Protection Financial Bureau, joining us via zoom from Washington, d C. 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.760 Once again, sold us is a crypto market surveillance and 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.840 risk monitoring platform. Just for those of you not in 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.040 the know. Kathy, good to have you back with us. 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.680 Your gut take on the news this week and what 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.200 it means for the US crypto industry. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:47.680 Well, you said it here too. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.280 It is quite a week when you thought the news 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.880 couldn't get any bigger. We find ourselves continually on a 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.040 roller coaster with this industry and unfortunately, particularly in the US. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.600 Look I said it before, agencies should go after bad actors. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.000 That's exactly what you want to see happen. So there 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:05.720 are certainly some. 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:10.800 Allegations that finance needs to address and having that out 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.360 in the open, frankly gives them the opportunity to do that. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:14.600 No surprise. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.679 The SEC has been engaging in investigations into a number 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.000 of platforms and operators in the crypto space now for 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.960 quite some time. So having the cases out there and 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:30.319 in the open matters the other side, as you mentioned, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.120 with the coinbase, they're two very different cases. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.760 So what let's focus in on Coinbase in terms of 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.240 what they can do well. Really, the similarity I think 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:49.719 between the two is compliance is almost impossible for crypto businesses, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.120 or that's what they tell us. Is that true? You know, 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.880 because we hear Gensler say all we want you to 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.720 do is come into compliance, and these crypto businesses say, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.920 there's no way for us to do that. We've applied 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.040 and they rejected us. 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.960 There are some real challenges here around the definitions and 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:07.880 the requirements. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:08.800 Definitely so. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.760 And actually a great hearing on Tuesday that included a 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.239 coin based witness, as Sherman Thompson of the House Agriculture 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:20.160 Committee noted, highly unusual to have a witness before the 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.560 committee who's now the subject of an enforcement action and 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.160 litigation by an agency, but that that was par for 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.600 the course and why the hearing was so important, and 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.959 the legislation was so important, So it is challenging, no doubt. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:42.280 There are very few crypto businesses or special purpose registrations 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.120 that have gone through that are related to crypto and 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.480 part of that has to do with two, you know, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.760 the business that they are engaged in and the fundamental 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:57.520 disclosures requirements and registration nuts and bolts that the SEC 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.320 requires that they just simply can not actually comply with. 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.120 Some of it also is related to what the nature 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.920 of these assets are and having that be clear in law. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.440 Point Base is a publicly traded company. They go through 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.520 a rigorous process that they have outlined repeatedly around their 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.880 assessment of which assets are or are not securities, and 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.439 it is not their intention to list securities, as many 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.760 of the platforms say, so why they would be subject 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.040 to registration is something that again this case now is 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.520 going to really be at the heart of the matter 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.840 of are these assets securities and why and the sec 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.040 actually you know, asserting that and proving that. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.280 What's your take? By the way, I mean, people always 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:42.200 talk about the Howie test, and there are some cases 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.160 in which it's very clear, and I think Gary Gensler 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.240 has set himself there some cases in which it's you know, 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.920 bitcoin for example, is is not a security. But in 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:57.199 a lot of these instances you can debate whether it's 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.040 a security or a commodity. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:01.839 You definitely can. 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.160 I mean it comes down to again whether whether there 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.280 is an aspect of decentralization in terms of whether this 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.720 is you know that that group of people that you 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.920 expect to benefit from and reap the rewards of their work, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.240 uh and their you know, their efforts. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.000 So that is is one prong of the analysis. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.560 Certainly under under the Howie test that that gets some attention. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:29.040 Uh. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.560 And and there are certainly things like like bitgoin that 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.280 you would argue is decentralized. I think there is some 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:40.320 real question too over over what ownership aspect there really 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.360 is and what anyone actually owns and so the the 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.800 other dynamic here in terms of what securities law requires. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:49.760 That takes me back to the first question you asked 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.960 and what is important here. It is important for issuers 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:58.960 and listeners to actually disclose what the asset does. 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.000 What it's intended to do, now it's used, who is 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:01.560 behind it. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.200 There are some classic things that again good actors in 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.480 crypto claim they are already doing and meeting so in 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.240 some respects meeting the spirit of that important information and 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.440 getting it to investors, but all the mechanics of registration 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.280 are things that they simply cannot actually meet. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.920 So, Kathy, you know, we had a conversation Matt and 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:25.480 I yesterday with former SEC chair j Clayton and Dean 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.240 moorehead also who's very involved in the crypto space, and 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:30.960 I do wonder one of the points that came up 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.840 is that you do already see sovereign you know, being 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:40.000 issued based on blockchain technology around the world, and I 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.840 do wonder, you know, as we think about the legitimacy 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.760 of crypto going forward, has kind of the train left 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:47.680 the station, and so that if the US is not 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.200 on board in terms of figuring out the regulatory framework 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.680 along with other folks in the world, that they will 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.480 be ultimately left behind. Can we make that conclusion if 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.720 they're not in if the US isn't involved US. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.960 Regulators, Look, I agree with that in part. 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.640 I would say the US markets are such that, you know, 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.600 there will always be an interest by companies serve US markets, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.440 and that will come back around. I think where it 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.880 really does concern me is the national security dynamics. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.320 We have benefited from decades and even. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:27.200 I suppose more than a century of US innovation setting 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.520 the standard for how the globe operates. We built the 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:34.080 financial systems of the world, so there is a national 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.960 security benefit to that, the dollar being you know, basically 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.760 the world's currency, that we benefited from that, and the 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.520 notion that we would be absent as the next financial 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.480 system is really being built and that infrastructure is being built. 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:53.280 That's where we're really I think losing that long term 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.840 competitive advantage and our place in the world's economy and 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:03.600 then frankly in the global dynamics even politically speaking, and 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.720 from a stability standpoint, in a national security standpoint, So 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.560 that does concern me greatly and I think is hugely 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.439 unfortunate if we if we just concede. The other thing 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.639 I would note that is to different this year is 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.439 really Chair Gensler's statement and attitude when you get to 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.760 you know, what, what is there room for in this 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.960 new economy and his stance that the only digital currencies 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.399 that are necessary are the ones that already exist and 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:36.040 are issued by governments. You know, that really does undermine 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.919 the potential and opportunity that's here, but some of it 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.919 gets to terminology too. I've not really believed that the 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.600 future of a lot of the tokenization is truly in currency, 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.320 you know, and really replacing sovereign currencies. But there is 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:57.320 I think a lot with the infrastructure that having you know, 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:03.240 stable coins and certainly having digital assets is hugely beneficial. 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.000 Is there a do you think there's a consensus feeling 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.119 in Congress about which way we need to go in 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:11.840 terms of either supporting it or killing it. 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.480 I continue to believe that on both sides of the 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.119 aisle there's a lot of interest in setting this up 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.600 the right way and understanding the potential and having the conversation. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.160 A lot of concern frankly about. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.359 The scams and fraud and dynamics around FTX. 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.040 That's completely legitimate. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.040 I mean, look, whenever any new technology comes into play, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.040 there are going to be those challenges and that's I 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.760 think hugely unfortunate and where the industry needs to step 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.399 up calling out the bad actors, where agencies should focus 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.280 their energy going after them, but where there are not 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.440 clear rules that good actors can follow. That's really where 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.280 you see the flight that we are. Again, certainly people 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.960 are asserting leaving the US markets, and we're seeing some 0:18:59.000 --> 0:18:59.800 of that itself. 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.400 All right, we got to run. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.320 Hey, Kathy, thank you, appreciate you waiting weighing in on 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.879 all of this. Kathy Kreninger, vice president of Regulatory Affairs 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.960 at Solidus Labs, former director of the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau, 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.159 joining us on Zoom from Washington, DC. Matt, did you 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.679 see the store about robin hood removing three jokers from 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.280 its crypto trading platform? 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:20.880 You know, so, I think anyone's going to be doing 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.439 that if they've been defined as a security by the SEC. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:24.840 You got to get rid of them, right, They've got 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:25.720 to be nervous. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.080 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.240 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.639 the Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.840 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.040 Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.040 Got to love them. We've got a guest coming on, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.240 and we've got a question ahead of them even joining us. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.760 A listener writes in with a question before we have 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.040 the guests. That's brilliant. That's a popular is the should 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.560 always do that. It makes our lives so much easier. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.720 Body listening because please do this, do this anyway, let's 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.800 get right to it. Doctor Ian las Baders with US, 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.000 clinical professor of Medicine at NYU Lango and on Zoom in. 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:08.600 New York City. 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.720 Ian, good to have you back here in joining Matt 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.520 and me on this Friday. I hope you're doing well. 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.600 What were the what's the week been like you? Based 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.840 on the air quality and what we had to deal 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:21.760 with this week. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.760 You know, I think everyone's been concerned about the wildfires 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.840 in Canada. Hard to believe seven or eight hundred miles away. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.320 I've been a native New Yorker for all my life. 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.639 I've never seen fires in Canada. Cause the air pollution 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.480 that we saw over the last three days shut to 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.520 northeast and we've had a lot of calls from patients, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:47.040 patients with COPD and emphysema. It's been a real challenge. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.679 We've had to raise people's medications and hailers. And I 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.600 think there's also this anxiety on top of COVID anxiety 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.000 and on top of all sorts of anxiety that they're 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.760 vulnerable there's really no safe place to go. There's still 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.439 some indoor air pollution, and going out on the street 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.879 there's a lot of coughing that acrid smell, and so 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.680 there are real concerns and also not only short term 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:17.040 but long term concerns because smoke has you know, hundreds 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:23.080 of chemicals, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, particle size, large particles, 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.920 small particles really all smoke, but especially wood, organic chemicals 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.560 things I tell you in in xylene, sulfur dioxide, and 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.160