Speaker 1: Episode four oh five is episode two sixteen, How Jen
Speaker 1: paid off seventy eight thousand dollars in two years.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Brugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. I'm Jen, I'm Jill, and
Speaker 1: today is the episode closest to my birthday, and so
Speaker 1: it is my episode rerun.
Speaker 3: Hey yay.
Speaker 1: We will do Jills in a few months when it
Speaker 1: is the episode closest to her birthday as a birthday gift.
Speaker 1: But today we are re airing my story about paying
Speaker 1: off seventy eight thousand dollars of debt in two years.
Speaker 1: And this is one a couple of years ago where
Speaker 1: Jill interviewed me and it was episode two sixteen.
Speaker 3: Wow, that was a long time ago. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was how long ago that we recorded it? The
Speaker 3: same amount as how long your debt payoff was? I
Speaker 3: said that in a confusing way. Yeah, but wow, that's true.
Speaker 3: That's that's wild. Wow. Okay, yeah, that's okayun Yeah, that
Speaker 3: is I'm excited. This was a fun thing for us
Speaker 3: to do. We realized that we hadn't ever shared our
Speaker 3: stories before, and since now it's been two years that
Speaker 3: you've heard a bit more of the origin story in
Speaker 3: the background story. Yeah, we're gonna read air gens.
Speaker 1: When you're in it, it feels like forever, and then
Speaker 1: when you're out of it, I mean multiple years can
Speaker 1: go by between even telling the story and retelling it
Speaker 1: that you don't even realize it. Yeah, So that's the
Speaker 1: story of my Like, my story is not a bunch
Speaker 1: of meal plans, sell your car, do this, do that,
Speaker 1: But it was more of a lot of mindset shifts.
Speaker 1: And we actually got a complaint after we aired the
Speaker 1: episode that there weren't enough tangible tips, and so I
Speaker 1: just emailed the lady back and I was like, we
Speaker 1: have two hundred and fifteen other episodes for that, but no,
Speaker 1: I didn't. But it is more of these mindset shifts.
Speaker 1: Like I, before we paid off started paying off debt,
Speaker 1: I thought it was too big to do. I thought
Speaker 1: seventy eight thousand dollars was too much. I could never
Speaker 1: pay it off. And then once we got started, it
Speaker 1: took two years and it has been what six seven
Speaker 1: years since we became debt free, which is to me
Speaker 1: is insane every time I think about it. And so
Speaker 1: it's I hope you take away from this in addition
Speaker 1: to everything else that we talk about that that nothing
Speaker 1: is too big. Nothing is too big.
Speaker 3: We pulled you all in our friend letter on whether
Speaker 3: or not you all are paying off debt and kind
Speaker 3: of half and half because most of the questions or
Speaker 3: responses in the poll or what amount of debt are
Speaker 3: you paying off? But a good majority of you are
Speaker 3: saying you are debt free, well.
Speaker 1: About thirty percent of people are who answered are just
Speaker 1: completely debt free, thirty thirty point four or five percent,
Speaker 1: which is awesome. And then a lot of you are
Speaker 1: paying off between like ten thousand plus dollars of debt.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's I mean, we were over. We were
Speaker 1: over fifty thousand, which was the highest amount on me
Speaker 1: on the poll. So if you answered that, then you
Speaker 1: were in good company. And maybe you too. One day
Speaker 1: we'll start a personal finance.
Speaker 3: It's all good whether you are still paying off debt.
Speaker 3: Hopefully this can be an encouragement to you or if
Speaker 3: you are currently debt free and listening that this is
Speaker 3: a helpful reminder kind of what you have accomplished and
Speaker 3: where you can go from here now, because we can
Speaker 3: lose sight of our story, our accomplishments, we forget to celebrate.
Speaker 3: So for whatever reason, you find yourselves here, Glad you're here.
Speaker 1: But first, before we get into the stories, this episode
Speaker 1: has brought to you by our wroth Iras. Ever since
Speaker 1: we became debt free in twenty seventeen, we have maxed
Speaker 1: out our wrath Irays and I didn't know if we
Speaker 1: were going to max them out in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: Travis took a pay cut and I wasn't sure. But
Speaker 1: thanks to the six week wroth Ira challenge that we
Speaker 1: hosted earlier this year, you thought was for you, but
Speaker 1: it was actually for me. I did max out both
Speaker 1: of our twenty twenty three wroth Iras. The funny thing though,
Speaker 1: I almost contributed to my traditional ira, which wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been a big different. It wouldn't have been a big deal,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to put them in our wroth Iras.
Speaker 1: And this is just another way my old four oh
Speaker 1: one K rollovers making things confusing. If you're confused by
Speaker 1: your old four oh one K and you want to
Speaker 1: roll it over but it's just confusing, then head to
Speaker 1: Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash capitalize. That's the service we
Speaker 1: used to roll over a four oh one K. It's
Speaker 1: what we tell everyone else to use. It's free and
Speaker 1: they will help you find your old four oh one
Speaker 1: K or any workplace retirement plan that you've left the
Speaker 1: workplace from and roll it over into a traditional IRA
Speaker 1: that you control, which is super important. So frugal friendspodcast
Speaker 1: dot com slash capitalize and start contributing to your IRA. Yes,
Speaker 1: do it, and rollovers don't count towards your annual maximum.
Speaker 3: Wow. Mm hmmm. So I never had a four oh
Speaker 3: one K, so I never could do this, but I
Speaker 3: totally would have.
Speaker 1: Right in fact, right both travel and I both did this.
Speaker 1: So if you are interested in more debt payoff stories,
Speaker 1: then you are gonna love this summer. I'm not even
Speaker 1: I'm We have a ton of debt payoff episodes from
Speaker 1: the past, you can look them up, but actually I
Speaker 1: want to highlight that every other episode this summer is
Speaker 1: going to be a debt payoff story. And if you
Speaker 1: want to get a leg up, you can head to
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel and listen to our debt free stories
Speaker 1: over there.
Speaker 3: But we are going to.
Speaker 1: Be playing those on the podcast where you're going to
Speaker 1: be sharing updates from our listeners and who contributed, and
Speaker 1: so you are not going to want to miss out
Speaker 1: this summer because we're gonna have ten debt payoff stories
Speaker 1: coming at you.
Speaker 3: Very exciting. All right, should we get to it. Let's
Speaker 3: do it, Jen, Before we get into the story of
Speaker 3: your journey out of debt, let's back up and walk
Speaker 3: us through your journey into debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I grew up in a family where we
Speaker 1: actually never had debt. We just lived paycheck to paycheck
Speaker 1: and that was kind of enough. Never saved, never went
Speaker 1: on vacations, kind of never had enough money when an
Speaker 1: emergency came up. It was always like a scramble. My
Speaker 1: mom used to say, we don't have bad credit, we
Speaker 1: have slow credit. I mean, it just takes us some
Speaker 1: time to pay our bills, but we do. So that
Speaker 1: was what I grew up thinking about debt. And so
Speaker 1: when I got to college, I was like, I'm smarter
Speaker 1: than my parents because I'm seventeen and I graduated a
Speaker 1: year early. So I am going to get a credit
Speaker 1: card and be smarter about money. And thank god, that
Speaker 1: card was only a five hundred dollars limit because I
Speaker 1: actually had to wait until I was eighteen obviously to
Speaker 1: get the card, but I did wait that whole first
Speaker 1: year of college. But I thought I was smart, so
Speaker 1: that I so I was going to have good credit.
Speaker 1: And what it really did was it set me up
Speaker 1: to kind of have a revolving credit on that card
Speaker 1: throughout college. And I went to grad school and I
Speaker 1: got another credit card because they offered a free free
Speaker 1: companion flight on it, and I was like, Oh, I'll
Speaker 1: take my friend in New York City because that's wise.
Speaker 1: I can afford that right and ended up actually putting
Speaker 1: more debt on that card than I could pay off.
Speaker 1: So that was like my first foray into debt. But
Speaker 1: my biggest debt was the student loans for my graduate program.
Speaker 1: I got. My undergrad was completely paid for by scholarships,
Speaker 1: but when I went to grad school for acupuncture and
Speaker 1: oriental medicine, that was completely out of pocket. And it
Speaker 1: was a private school, so there wasn't like any other
Speaker 1: options for there, and so that was fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: and it ballooned up to fifty four thousand dollars by
Speaker 1: the time I got serious about paying it off, and
Speaker 1: then I had a car that I got right out
Speaker 1: of college that also gave me I think it was
Speaker 1: about ten thousand dollars, but I tried to pay as
Speaker 1: much of that off before I got married, so I
Speaker 1: think that added it to like part of it. But
Speaker 1: so I spend a lot of time ignoring that debt
Speaker 1: because as a community acupuncturist. So we worked on a
Speaker 1: model that was like kind of pay what you can afford.
Speaker 1: And I love that. I love serving people who with
Speaker 1: things that they may not be able to usually afford,
Speaker 1: but like serving them in that way, just kind of
Speaker 1: reaching more people. Like low cost, high volume sort of thing.
Speaker 1: That's always been my jam, not necessarily nonprofit work, but
Speaker 1: just like in a kind of a low price, high
Speaker 1: volume business type of thing. But it didn't pay well
Speaker 1: because of that, and so I had more debt than
Speaker 1: I made in a whole year. And what started this
Speaker 1: whole thing for me in paying it off was that
Speaker 1: when I got engaged to Travis, he brought twenty four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of student loans and was like, I want
Speaker 1: to pay this off immediately as soon as we get married,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was not not into that.
Speaker 1: But so that's how the journey into seventy eight thousand
Speaker 1: dollars of debt came into play. And honestly, the two
Speaker 1: credit cards by that point weren't even factored in. Because
Speaker 1: this is a great story. I somebody hit my car
Speaker 1: in a Starbucks parking lot and I came out and
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. I came out and saw
Speaker 1: it and there was a note on the car, but
Speaker 1: it was just like a dent in the back bumper,
Speaker 1: like it was totally drivable, and their insurance paid for
Speaker 1: it obviously, And instead of using that money to get
Speaker 1: my car fixed, I used to pay off the credit cards. Wow,
Speaker 1: those were.
Speaker 3: Happy Starbucks accidents.
Speaker 1: Right, And I just drove around with a debt in
Speaker 1: my bumper four years.
Speaker 3: Maybe I should go to Starbucks more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make sure the parking lot is small, though. So
Speaker 1: that was our journey into debt.
Speaker 3: I don't think that I realized that it was comprised
Speaker 3: of more than student loan debt. That is knowledge for
Speaker 3: me today.
Speaker 1: Part of the I mean, the car loan was just
Speaker 1: like maybe four thousand of it by the time we
Speaker 1: got strained.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, But I think it is interesting to recognize
Speaker 3: that sometimes our debts and our journey into debt and
Speaker 3: our comfort level with debt does have to do with
Speaker 3: more than just the decision we made for higher education
Speaker 3: and some of what we might do around that lifestyle.
Speaker 3: When you are going to school full time, a lot
Speaker 3: of times it does mean that it's then also paired
Speaker 3: with credit card debt because we still want to live
Speaker 3: life and maybe even maintain a lifestyle that we can't afford.
Speaker 3: So that's it's good to look at that reality. Even
Speaker 3: if you're able to pay it off or you're just
Speaker 3: floating a little bit of a balance, like you're still
Speaker 3: interacting with debt and utilizing it to maintain a lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then the part about this is something I've been
Speaker 3: hearing a lot from people with student loan debt, is
Speaker 3: the increase on it, like they've stopped going to school,
Speaker 3: but the interest is accruing, and you know, you might
Speaker 3: have graduated with like, like you said, fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 3: of debt, but then by not taking it super seriously,
Speaker 3: it balloon to fifty four and that is a like
Speaker 3: stab in the heart to realize that reality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so it was, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I think debt is neutral. I don't think there's good
Speaker 1: debt or bad debt. I think it is all in
Speaker 1: how you use it. And because I had a car
Speaker 1: loan that I had to pay, and the Federal Student
Speaker 1: Loan Agency allowed me to pay less than interest every
Speaker 1: month on my student loan, it didn't force me to
Speaker 1: focus on my student loan, even though it was higher
Speaker 1: interest than my car loan. So having that extra debt
Speaker 1: prevented me from paying off my student loans. So it
Speaker 1: does have to do with like, if you're in debt
Speaker 1: one place, it kind of can snowball to debt other places,
Speaker 1: and then that just like compounds on itself to make
Speaker 1: it harder to pay off the first debt, like kind
Speaker 1: of essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul almost but in debt.
Speaker 3: So Travis knew exactly how much your husband, how much
Speaker 3: debt he had, and was very convinced he wanted to
Speaker 3: pay it off quickly. You weren't as convinced. So what
Speaker 3: was that moment when you realized, Oh, here's how much
Speaker 3: we have and I want it gone.
Speaker 1: This is a pretty pivotal moment because I'd always said, like,
Speaker 1: oh when I get married, then I'll pay off my
Speaker 1: debt because I really can't do it on my own income,
Speaker 1: which is my own limiting belief for sure. And I
Speaker 1: look back now and I see I was never more
Speaker 1: positioned than I am now to pay off debt. So
Speaker 1: I was waiting, and then the time came when we
Speaker 1: were engaged and Travis said he wanted to pay off
Speaker 1: his debt, and I was like, actually, I'd like to
Speaker 1: live a little bit, like I've been on the edge
Speaker 1: of paycheck to paycheck for so long. I'd really like
Speaker 1: to enjoy this new income and not live under a rock.
Speaker 1: Is literally how I put it.
Speaker 3: I could see you saying that it's either I pay
Speaker 3: off debt or I live under.
Speaker 1: A I'm living extra. I am definitely the person who
Speaker 1: lives in extremes for better for worse. It's my own
Speaker 1: like thing that I deal with. But yeah, like I
Speaker 1: didn't have the concept of the radical middle there, like
Speaker 1: that you could pay off debt and still have the
Speaker 1: things that you value. That never occurred to me. So
Speaker 1: what Travis did was he and he didn't even know
Speaker 1: he was doing this, I guess, but he just like
Speaker 1: he tried to get to like my deeper yes, like,
Speaker 1: what is it that makes other things easier to say
Speaker 1: no to because the yes is deeper? And for me,
Speaker 1: it was foster care. So like I have been I have
Speaker 1: had a heart for foster care for over a decade now,
Speaker 1: I guess it was definitely before I met Travis, I
Speaker 1: was working in a group home, and because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to volunteer at a group foster home, because I
Speaker 1: wanted more responsibility and more access to the lives of
Speaker 1: kids in care. So like, I just decided to work
Speaker 1: there on the weekends and so that that took up
Speaker 1: every weekend of my life, and I wanted to I
Speaker 1: knew that that wasn't sustainable, but I wasn't ready to
Speaker 1: foster myself. So I really want to be able to
Speaker 1: do that. But with that comes a lot of responsibility,
Speaker 1: like a lot of visits and doctor's appointments and kids
Speaker 1: acting out in trauma and stuff like that. And so
Speaker 1: I knew having a full time job and being beholden
Speaker 1: to debt payments would make being accessible more difficult. And
Speaker 1: so he opened my eyes to how much easier could
Speaker 1: it be for you to fulfill your dream in life
Speaker 1: if we were debt free, So that was my deeper yes,
Speaker 1: and obviously it didn't work one hundred percent of the time,
Speaker 1: but it was the catalyst that I needed to change
Speaker 1: my perspective on debt. And I since learned that you
Speaker 1: don't have to like put your life on pause to
Speaker 1: pay off debt. You can do it and do it,
Speaker 1: you know, in a balanced way. But yeah, that was
Speaker 1: really the moment. And I knew my number already gave
Speaker 1: me anxiety. It gave me an insane anxiety to look
Speaker 1: at my debt number, so I knew how much it
Speaker 1: was hanging over my head. Tried to ignore it. But
Speaker 1: when Travis really inspired me to like, look at our
Speaker 1: entire lives and he made it about my dreams, not
Speaker 1: just his, that was when I got on board.
Speaker 3: Isn't that so true for so many of us? Though?
Speaker 3: This need to have it connected to something, and it
Speaker 3: can't just be arbitrary.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: You hear some people who say, Okay, there's this number
Speaker 3: and it was overwhelming, so I knew I had to
Speaker 3: do something about it. But oftentimes that's not enough. Just
Speaker 3: seeing a really big number on a piece of paper
Speaker 3: or on your computer isn't alway is enough to say,
Speaker 3: let me make drastic changes in my lifestyle to get
Speaker 3: this gone. Yes, it's anxiety producing. You knew your number,
Speaker 3: You knew it was a lot, but it still took
Speaker 3: more to connect it to that thing, to tether it
Speaker 3: to something, to anchor it to something for an actual reason,
Speaker 3: not just because I just don't want to see this
Speaker 3: number on this computer screen anymore. And so you said,
Speaker 3: it's a big number, seventy eight thousand dollars of debt.
Speaker 3: And now we've heard so many people's stories of six
Speaker 3: figures and nearly half a million, like it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's not a race to the bottom. Everybody has their
Speaker 3: own story. But that is a lot. Most people would
Speaker 3: not be able to pay that off in a matter
Speaker 3: of months or even a year or a few years.
Speaker 3: How did you stay on track? How did you stay
Speaker 3: motivated to get this large sum of money tackled?
Speaker 1: So we didn't have big incomes. We by the end
Speaker 1: of it, we were making up to eighty eight thousand
Speaker 1: dollars gross, but we did. We started. I was making
Speaker 1: maybe thirty five at my acupuncture job, and the I
Speaker 1: guess the foster home was maybe bringing an eight or
Speaker 1: ten extra a year. So like forty five in a
Speaker 1: good year is what I was making gross. And Travis
Speaker 1: was unemployed when we started. So we literally started our
Speaker 1: debt free journey forty five thousand dollars, which is less,
Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, almost half of what our total debt was.
Speaker 1: Like it on paper, it looked like stupid, but we
Speaker 1: worked on it together and so I can confidently say,
Speaker 1: like everyone says, everyone says, the budget is what does
Speaker 1: it for them, And it wasn't the budget for me.
Speaker 1: I have never been a great budgeter. I still don't
Speaker 1: budget often. For me. It was about the accountability, having
Speaker 1: the accountability between Travis and I and wanting to do
Speaker 1: this for him and him wanting to do it for
Speaker 1: me made this journey sustainable. And that's exactly why we've
Speaker 1: created our community, our private community, is to give people
Speaker 1: a place to do that, because that's really what did
Speaker 1: it for me. And when we had that, then we
Speaker 1: were motivated to create the budget, to stick to the budget,
Speaker 1: to have the budget meetings, and we were motivated to
Speaker 1: have open communication about our expenses without judgment, with grace,
Speaker 1: all of these things, and it came down to having
Speaker 1: a community, and not just in my home, but outside
Speaker 1: of my home too, because I realized a lot of
Speaker 1: my friends just wanted to spend money. They were not
Speaker 1: trying to get their finances together like we were. And
Speaker 1: I had to find new friends for a season, which
Speaker 1: thankfully became lifelong friends, and I'm still friends with some
Speaker 1: of the people. I had to kind of unfollow or
Speaker 1: mute on social media for a few years. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to kind of I had to shift the
Speaker 1: community outside of my home too, to be one where
Speaker 1: people were more conscious about their money and okay, doing
Speaker 1: free things. And so it was really the people around
Speaker 1: me that had a huge impact in my motivation to
Speaker 1: stick with it. And then the second thing, second thing
Speaker 1: that was most important. A year intwo our debt payoff,
Speaker 1: we were making good progress. We had went down from
Speaker 1: thinking it was going to take us five years to
Speaker 1: knowing that we were going to do it in two.
Speaker 1: And we were a year in. We knew we had
Speaker 1: a year left, and I was miserable, Like I was miserable,
Speaker 1: I was hopeless. I was like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: how I'm going to do this for another year. And
Speaker 1: I know now that some of that could have been
Speaker 1: avoided by having a more focused life plan, I think,
Speaker 1: and kind of a little bit more of a balance
Speaker 1: between the goal and the life, the immediate goal and
Speaker 1: the long term goal. But I started writing about what
Speaker 1: I was learning, what I had learned for the past year.
Speaker 1: I started teaching, trying to teach other people the lessons
Speaker 1: that I had learned in a difficult way, and that
Speaker 1: shifted the journey for me. When I stopped dwelling on
Speaker 1: what the journey was taking from me and started focusing
Speaker 1: on how I could give back as a result of
Speaker 1: this journey, everything changed and the last year was like
Speaker 1: nonexistent to me, Like I didn't even realize it was happening.
Speaker 1: I was just doing it and then we were done.
Speaker 1: So those were the two biggest motivators for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting. It's almost as if you're describing
Speaker 3: in order to get you motivated to begin, you needed
Speaker 3: a deeper why and purpose, and in order for the
Speaker 3: motivation to keep going, you needed another why and purpose
Speaker 3: attached to it. Again, I think that's really similar for
Speaker 3: a lot of people. But something that stands out to
Speaker 3: me about you. One of the things I really admire
Speaker 3: and I think drew me to you. When we first met,
Speaker 3: I met you in the midst of your debt payoff
Speaker 3: journey towards the tail end. Is your authenticity and transparency
Speaker 3: in this process, not without protection you're not sharing anything
Speaker 3: that you don't want to be sharing, but even to
Speaker 3: be able to talk about your salaries, what you did make,
Speaker 3: what you then were making by the end of it,
Speaker 3: and how you journeyed through this, some of the ways
Speaker 3: that you would have done your debt payoff journey in
Speaker 3: a more balanced way. I think all of this it's
Speaker 3: so relatable. I think sometimes we can talk really cryptically
Speaker 3: about our debt payoff journeys and we don't really know
Speaker 3: what's available to us because it always seems like everybody
Speaker 3: else's story is there's something unique about it, and so
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it. But like, your story is very
Speaker 3: I would imagine there's a lot of people in debt
Speaker 3: who are in better off positions than you were in right,
Speaker 3: who are making more money and maybe have less debt. Like,
Speaker 3: there's so many things about what you're describing that so
Speaker 3: relatable in a lot of ways, and I just so
Speaker 3: appreciate you talking through also what was really difficult, but
Speaker 3: then some really tangible tips in that that when it
Speaker 3: is difficult, go deeper, connect to deeper reasons of why
Speaker 3: is this? Why is this so heavy on me? Why
Speaker 3: do I feel like I can't bear another year? What
Speaker 3: could shift here? And because there is freedom and permission
Speaker 3: to shift it? Your debt payoff journey did take a
Speaker 3: toll on you. I mean to start out with forty five,
Speaker 3: making forty five thousand dollars in a good year and
Speaker 3: paying off seventy eight thousand dollars in two years, Like
Speaker 3: I am a little bit like, how the heck did
Speaker 3: that happen? And maybe you could have taken a little
Speaker 3: bit longer to do that and not have gotten shingles.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the shingles story. Yeah, And we bought a
Speaker 1: house in those two years, So there were there were
Speaker 1: a lot of we could have taken a little extra time.
Speaker 1: For sure, I think we glamorize and I did I
Speaker 1: glamorize these stories of I paid off this much debt
Speaker 1: in this timeframe. It's so much, it's so fast, and
Speaker 1: we hear the same stories. There are ratios to a
Speaker 1: certain limit of if you make above this amount, you
Speaker 1: will pay off your debt in this many to this
Speaker 1: many months. You can almost calculate it and I never have.
Speaker 1: But to me now, numbers and timeframes are arbitrary because
Speaker 1: I've heard so many of them so many different times.
Speaker 1: What interests me is the story of the journey, Like
Speaker 1: how is the journey unique? And there are so many
Speaker 1: things that are the same, and we do talk about
Speaker 1: those on the podcast. You know, get on a meal plan,
Speaker 1: make a budget, increase your income. There are so many
Speaker 1: things that are the same, but like looking for those
Speaker 1: unique things, and I think that's what Like, in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: I left acupuncture and started writing full time and finance
Speaker 1: and I was an SEO writer, which means I was
Speaker 1: literally just like writing outlines that were very educational and
Speaker 1: writing those right, really informational articles to this website that
Speaker 1: really wanted me to be a journalist, a financial journalist,
Speaker 1: and I learned. I learned storytelling, like and it was
Speaker 1: it was really great because I heard so many stories,
Speaker 1: I heard so many people say the same thing, and
Speaker 1: to hear the thing like the one thing that made
Speaker 1: it different was always so refreshing and the thing I
Speaker 1: tried to hold onto. And that's why I want to
Speaker 1: share so many of the unique things about my story
Speaker 1: so that more people can see different sides of paying
Speaker 1: off debt, so more people can see themselves paying off
Speaker 1: debt through these stories, and it's why we try to
Speaker 1: tell unique stories here on the show from unique and
Speaker 1: diverse perspectives.
Speaker 3: I think the thing that's standing out to me in
Speaker 3: your story is how you found joy and purpose through
Speaker 3: it to help you keep going. And then the learnings
Speaker 3: of what you would have done differently, how you might
Speaker 3: have given yourself more permission to way out living life
Speaker 3: alongside paying down debt that maybe it could have taken
Speaker 3: a little bit longer. But I am also curious to
Speaker 3: hear what your thoughts are on how your life has
Speaker 3: shifted since debt payoff. It certainly sounds like a lot
Speaker 3: shifted in the midst of debt payoff. What have you
Speaker 3: seen since that time?
Speaker 1: I have been able to do like so many more things,
Speaker 1: so much more freely, and refollow those people on social
Speaker 1: media because I can do all the things they're doing now,
Speaker 1: And then they're coming to me talking about how much
Speaker 1: debt they have and the like the burden it's putting
Speaker 1: on them, and I'm like, well, I have a podcast,
Speaker 1: you should listen to it. So yeah, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: able to like go on vacations, which I could never
Speaker 1: do as a child, Like again, no debt, so like
Speaker 1: no vacations at all when I was a kid. Like
Speaker 1: we had our son and didn't worry about if there
Speaker 1: was going to be complications like with the pregnancy or
Speaker 1: with the labor, because we knew, like we can handle
Speaker 1: like medical bills. We're prepared for this, and like, thank
Speaker 1: god we didn't. But like that that's a huge ease
Speaker 1: for somebody who's like pregnant and hormonal. There are we
Speaker 1: just I can visually say it. We just bought another house.
Speaker 1: We bought a second home, and so we are going
Speaker 1: instead of buying an investment property, we bought another house
Speaker 1: to live in, and we'll use our current house as
Speaker 1: an investment property. So these are things I would have
Speaker 1: never known were possible because my family and the families
Speaker 1: I grew up around never did this stuff. They were
Speaker 1: like shopping was a hobby and people were spending all
Speaker 1: of their money. And I had a friend who in
Speaker 1: the housing crisis, her family was like living on rama
Speaker 1: and essentially because they bought this huge house at the
Speaker 1: height and couldn't get rid of it, and they were
Speaker 1: living in this beautiful house by the beach, like living
Speaker 1: on you know, essentially Ramen. So like these were the
Speaker 1: people I was around. I didn't know it was possible
Speaker 1: for somebody without a ton of money to like get
Speaker 1: into rental real estate or to have a six figure
Speaker 1: investment portfolio to take trips just because it's a good idea,
Speaker 1: not because like you're desperate or anything. So it's changed
Speaker 1: my perspective and life. And that's a gift that I'm
Speaker 1: going to give to my son that more is possible
Speaker 1: and you don't have to be super rich to achieve
Speaker 1: it or quote unquote rich, but anything is possible.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a gift to the larger community too.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, absolutely, as you teach your son, But
Speaker 3: it's a gift to me. It's a gift to the
Speaker 3: frugal friends community. It's a gift to all the people
Speaker 3: that you interact with because of your transparency and honesty
Speaker 3: and encouragement of people. I mean, I remember I have
Speaker 3: a vivid memory of watching you and Travis. I joined
Speaker 3: virtually before even the pandemic and all that virtual stuff happened,
Speaker 3: but you all paid off your debt live on Facebook
Speaker 3: Live and celebrated, and it was a little weird to
Speaker 3: me to be so out in the open about finances,
Speaker 3: but yet unashamedly, unapologetically, and there was a celebration with you,
Speaker 3: and there was an encouragement and motivation for me of
Speaker 3: I could do that too, like you and your journey
Speaker 3: has been a gift to me, and my journey to
Speaker 3: understand what's possible, and the things that you have built
Speaker 3: in skill set and understanding through the debt payoff journey
Speaker 3: is what has afforded all of these other things. Right,
Speaker 3: it's not just about oh, I paid off debts now,
Speaker 3: obviously my life is better. It's better because of the journey,
Speaker 3: because of what you learned and gained along the way
Speaker 3: that you're now able to implement on the other side
Speaker 3: of the pendulum. It's great to get out of debt.
Speaker 3: And then you just translate all that over into the
Speaker 3: next step. What do you want to do next with
Speaker 3: your finances, which for you it's income, property trips, sharing
Speaker 3: and encouraging others, raising your son well, not living in
Speaker 3: fear and anxiety for financial concerns, like there's so much
Speaker 3: here and the way that you're choosing to give back
Speaker 3: out of that and along the way, not just oh,
Speaker 3: I've arrived, so now let me tell you about it,
Speaker 3: like you've been honest throughout the whole thing of this
Speaker 3: was really tough. Yep, still in the middle of that,
Speaker 3: and it's it's real. It's what drew me to you.
Speaker 3: I think it's one of the reasons that our podcast
Speaker 3: is where our podcast is. So you keep doing it, Jen, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I've just written so many articles
Speaker 1: that are so surface level and so like I've written
Speaker 1: the same article so many times to be able to
Speaker 1: tell a story that's unique and relatable. And I've I mean,
Speaker 1: when we started Frugal Friends, it's like when we decided
Speaker 1: to like take a chance on it, which neither of
Speaker 1: us was like super keen on. But I said, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, I'm I'm gonna make it
Speaker 1: so different from everything else that's out there that is
Speaker 1: pretty much investing centric. It's for people who already have
Speaker 1: a handle on their finances. It's for people who have
Speaker 1: already paid off debt or don't care about paying off debt.
Speaker 1: I want something so different, and we created something that
Speaker 1: helps people. Yeah, no matter where you are, but like
Speaker 1: definitely of average income, dream bigger and have bigger financial
Speaker 1: goals because that's I think more important than trying to
Speaker 1: pay off debt, is to like expand your thinking of
Speaker 1: what's possible. Because I had to pay off my debt
Speaker 1: to get there, but the greatest gift, like I could
Speaker 1: still have debt, and now that we have this new
Speaker 1: investment property, I definitely do. But like knowing what is possible,
Speaker 1: knowing assets, liabilities like unlimited income, stuff like that, like
Speaker 1: building a business. It's it's stuff that I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought about if I hadn't started at the very bottom.
Speaker 1: And all the podcasts out there were already for the
Speaker 1: big thinkers. But yeah, like we were just talking to
Speaker 1: Angie and RJ from Rich by Intention and how they
Speaker 1: started with their you know, negotiating bills, like just negotiating
Speaker 1: bills to lower their expenses. They took those skills and
Speaker 1: negotiated raises and new jobs promotions, but they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: even thought about it or had the skills to do
Speaker 1: it without starting like quote unquote at the bottom, and
Speaker 1: like that's where I want to be for people at
Speaker 1: the bottom. Yeah, yeah, I started from the bottom, and
Speaker 1: now we're still here.
Speaker 3: Speaking of things that are not at the bottom. They
Speaker 3: all the way on the top. Is the bill of
Speaker 3: the week.
Speaker 5: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 5: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 5: is Williams. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your
Speaker 5: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 5: that bill anymore. Fust bills, bffalo bills, Bill Clinton, This
Speaker 5: is the bill of the week.
Speaker 1: So I will share my bill of the week. But
Speaker 1: since this is a like a duo episode, I do
Speaker 1: want to share somebody else's too, So I guess I
Speaker 1: will go first and no one will be surprised by
Speaker 1: my bill. Jill could tell you my bill.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's.
Speaker 1: It's Bill.
Speaker 3: From Wait, Wait, don't tell me.
Speaker 1: And the narrator of Anchorman and famed news castor in
Speaker 1: Chicago Anchorman in Chicago. I think, yeah, that is my
Speaker 1: bill of the week always, because I my dream is
Speaker 1: to one day have Bill Curtis do my voicemail message.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm always too nervous to call in to
Speaker 1: wait wait don't tell me, but I do listen to
Speaker 1: it all the time. I love his bill puns. Anchorman
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite movies still to this day.
Speaker 1: Like I'm still stuck in like I'm a college frat boy.
Speaker 1: I guess I yeah, so that is forever. Weren't always
Speaker 1: my bill of the week, So let's hear from somebody else's.
Speaker 4: Hi freakal friends.
Speaker 6: This is Becca.
Speaker 4: I'm from Rogers, Arkansas, and I'm just going to give
Speaker 4: you my.
Speaker 3: Bill of the week.
Speaker 6: So this month was actually supposed to be a no
Speaker 6: spend challenge for my fiance and I and we were
Speaker 6: doing really good until our sweet dog Rufus decided to
Speaker 6: eat rocks the other.
Speaker 4: Day, so we took him to the vet and it ended.
Speaker 6: Up being an incredibly expensive seven hundred and fifty dollars bill,
Speaker 6: but we are grateful that a vet was able to
Speaker 6: help him and he passed all of the rocks.
Speaker 4: So unfortunately we hadn't given to our savings a little
Speaker 4: bit rather than increasing our savings this month, but we
Speaker 4: are so grateful that Rufus is okay and are happy
Speaker 4: to pay this bill. Love you guys, Thank thank you
Speaker 4: so much for all of your advice and just fun
Speaker 4: times on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks oh Wow, Becca and Ruth. Thanks congratulations Rufus Like
Speaker 1: eating rocks and you made it past them. Yeah you, Rufus,
Speaker 1: you went through something and this one's for you too.
Speaker 3: Yes. Oh, I love hearing the stories of unexpected large
Speaker 3: bills that are able to be paid and not stressed
Speaker 3: about because of the intentionality with finances. Well done that
Speaker 3: you could sustain your rockeating dog, Rufus's weird addiction. And
Speaker 3: thanks for all the love. We're we're happy for the
Speaker 3: fun times here too, and celebrating with you that Rufus
Speaker 3: is still with us. Hopefully he doesn't have a taste
Speaker 3: for non edible things anymore. And well done with your finances.
Speaker 3: If you all listening, want to submit your bill of
Speaker 3: the week, if you've got a pet that enjoys eating
Speaker 3: things that shouldn't be eaten, or you have you know
Speaker 3: someone named Bill in your life who is really just
Speaker 3: crushing it in some way or something related to.
Speaker 1: Because Jill doesn't believe that anybody feels the same way
Speaker 1: for him that I do.
Speaker 3: Maybe you're just the shest you know.
Speaker 1: Nobody else says that because you're the.
Speaker 3: Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us your bill.
Speaker 3: We're moving on. It's time for the lightning round. The
Speaker 3: lightning round.
Speaker 1: All right, we will both answer this just like a
Speaker 1: traditional lightning round, but I'll let you ask it since
Speaker 1: you're you're leading the episode today.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, this is Goldie. This question in here for us.
Speaker 3: It's a good one. I don't people don't ask each
Speaker 3: other this question. So here you go. Hot take in
Speaker 3: this lightning round. Is there anything you would be willing
Speaker 3: to take on debt to have or buy?
Speaker 1: I think you know my answer because I have just
Speaker 1: done it for a house. Because it is an asset,
Speaker 1: it will be slightly cash flowing. So here's the honest truth.
Speaker 1: You're never gonna hear me on bigger pockets. I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not the person like it's not me. Real estate
Speaker 1: investing not for me. Tried it, did it, didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 1: So that's my hot take, and I'm you know, it's
Speaker 1: I know people who love it, and I tried it
Speaker 1: once and I was like, Nope, not for me. But
Speaker 1: we did buy a second property because originally we wanted
Speaker 1: to get a place for my mom because she rents,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to just get something that she could
Speaker 1: live in and pay us rent and we could control
Speaker 1: her rent. But that didn't happen because prices in our
Speaker 1: area are so unreasonably high that we literally couldn't find
Speaker 1: anything that she could live in and we could afford
Speaker 1: to have her live in it. So but we did
Speaker 1: get a house, and we will rent out our current
Speaker 1: home and we will Our hope is to either eliminate
Speaker 1: our mortgage altogether, so not make any profit. Just either
Speaker 1: eliminate the mortgage or just cover the two mortgage payments,
Speaker 1: and we'll use it for the tax benefits annually and
Speaker 1: in twenty years or something when we sell something, use
Speaker 1: the appreciation, because the appreciation in Saint Petersburg is higher
Speaker 1: than average stock market returns. So it was a wise
Speaker 1: financial decision. It was not the ideal real estate you know,
Speaker 1: thing you look for, but our market is weird and
Speaker 1: we did it, and I'm not here for it. Yeah again,
Speaker 1: So yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3: You learned through it for sure, and this will benefit
Speaker 3: you all in many ways, the owning of these two places.
Speaker 3: I'm excited for you. This is a big celebration. Really,
Speaker 3: you just signed yesterday.
Speaker 1: I know, and I don't want to. I know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to deter anyone from investing in real estate
Speaker 1: because I think it is a super viable way to
Speaker 1: diversify your income and has a lot of income and
Speaker 1: investment and tax benefits. It really does, but it is
Speaker 1: really something like it is a process, and try it once.
Speaker 1: You don't have to love it, but you don't know
Speaker 1: until you try. I didn't know that. I didn't love
Speaker 1: it until I tried, and I don't regret it yet,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to. I would never steer anyone
Speaker 1: away from renting or from rental real estate or anything.
Speaker 1: So I think even if we continue to do real estate,
Speaker 1: we would consider doing like syndications, which is like way
Speaker 1: higher level. So yeah, that caveat.
Speaker 3: How about you, Jill, Well, I know that you love
Speaker 3: being super vulnerable on this lightning round, so I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do that for you. Jen, I think you know the
Speaker 3: obvious answer is likewise housing. Most of us have a mortgage.
Speaker 3: It's a decent aim to pay off your mortgage early,
Speaker 3: but I don't mind having that. It's an asset. I
Speaker 3: have to live somewhere pay less on my mortgage than
Speaker 3: I wouldn't a rent. So yes, that's obvious. Something else
Speaker 3: and I will So I'll process this out loud with
Speaker 3: you feel free to give me your feedback, and I'll
Speaker 3: be a little bit vulnerable here. We have been cash
Speaker 3: flowing renovations on our current house, which has been awesome.
Speaker 3: It's one of the things that our debt pay off
Speaker 3: has opened up the door for us to do. I'm
Speaker 3: beginning to realize, however, that cash flowing things is only
Speaker 3: so good in a time limited way, similar with debt.
Speaker 3: Like as you say, debt is neutral, we could use
Speaker 3: it in a way that is beneficial. And so something
Speaker 3: that Eric and I have just started to begun thinking
Speaker 3: about is, Okay, we wanted to cash flow renovations, get
Speaker 3: them out of, get them done, and then just live
Speaker 3: in our home and go hard at savings and investing
Speaker 3: and all of that. Well, now we are nearly two
Speaker 3: years into being in our home having cash flowed renovations,
Speaker 3: and it's causing me pause to say, cash flowing is awesome,
Speaker 3: But when does that stop? Like, when does it stop
Speaker 3: when you're just going hard at Yes, I don't have debt,
Speaker 3: but am I still making a wise financial decision with
Speaker 3: the money that I have to keep throwing large chunks
Speaker 3: of money at these massive renovations. And so it's making
Speaker 3: both of us consider would it be more beneficial for
Speaker 3: us to take a small loan with a low interest
Speaker 3: rate and invest the money that we're now spending on
Speaker 3: all of these other areas so that we're not continually
Speaker 3: pushing off. We don't make a ton of money, right,
Speaker 3: and so we're going to do best in retirement if
Speaker 3: we start early in putting money towards retirement. And we
Speaker 3: are doing that, but we are doing it in really
Speaker 3: small ways wall cash flowing renovations, because again we're not
Speaker 3: independently wealthy. But it's starting to make me think, hmm,
Speaker 3: is it worth considering. I've not done it yet. I'm
Speaker 3: not saying that I don't know what that decision will be,
Speaker 3: but to this question, like would you consider it? Sometimes
Speaker 3: I do wonder what be better to take out a
Speaker 3: low interest loan to be able to put money into investments,
Speaker 3: because I don't think it's wise to cash flow large
Speaker 3: sums of money for years. Yeah, and so's that's where
Speaker 3: my mind's at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are a few things to consider in that.
Speaker 1: Definitely would never advise taking out a low interest loan
Speaker 1: to invest that money in the stock market, which is
Speaker 1: which if it was just going into your house, would
Speaker 1: kind of be what that is, it would just have
Speaker 1: it would go through like an intermediary first, because I'm
Speaker 1: coming at this from the perspective that your primary home
Speaker 1: is not an investment. It's an asset. It's growing, but
Speaker 1: you will always need someplace to live. So your primary
Speaker 1: home where you live is not an investment unless it
Speaker 1: cash flows. And what you're trying to do part of
Speaker 1: your renovation is an airbnb that will cash flow. So
Speaker 1: if you can do the math and figure out how
Speaker 1: much you'd be paying in interest every month on this
Speaker 1: small loan compared to what you could be making monthly
Speaker 1: on the airbnb, and the number and there's profit in
Speaker 1: the airbnb versus the cost of the loan, then it
Speaker 1: does make financial It makes numerical sense to finish up
Speaker 1: the renovations with a loan, as you know, obviously as
Speaker 1: low the interest you can get so that you can
Speaker 1: start cash flowing the airbnb, because that numerically makes more sense.
Speaker 1: If you were just wanting to get finished with renovations
Speaker 1: and there was no cash flow component to it, and
Speaker 1: you're like, how should I cash flow renovations and invest,
Speaker 1: it would be a slowing down of renovations to balance
Speaker 1: with investing. That would be the solution. And so your
Speaker 1: situation is unique to a lot of homeowners, but it
Speaker 1: would just be doing the math on that, on what
Speaker 1: the loan is going to cost you versus what you're
Speaker 1: going to make from the airbnb, and if it's more,
Speaker 1: then the loan makes numerical sense. M thanks, absolutely, Well,
Speaker 1: here we are two years after that.
Speaker 3: Anything you want to add to your story, any think
Speaker 3: you think you missed or how has your story developed
Speaker 3: since then?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we did just buy. I mean we are
Speaker 1: nearing the end of the renovation on that second property,
Speaker 1: and it has been a lot of low lows. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen a ton of high highs. I don't think
Speaker 1: I was pregnant with Atlas when we recorded this, right,
Speaker 1: and obviously we did the first year of that renovation
Speaker 1: to most of it, I was either pregnant or had
Speaker 1: a new So I still think real estate is a
Speaker 1: good way to diversify your investments, but you have to
Speaker 1: be very passionate about it, like it is not just
Speaker 1: a oh, I should do this because somebody said it's
Speaker 1: a good investment. Just like buying a house, you can
Speaker 1: love owning your own home, and real estate not be
Speaker 1: a good investment for you. So that but other than that,
Speaker 1: my views on debt have not changed. I still think
Speaker 1: I think debt is neutral.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so now you're two years into your renovation and
Speaker 3: investment and that's I don't know, forget if we said
Speaker 3: it in this episode or just other episodes. That, Yeah,
Speaker 3: reaching one financial goal isn't necessarily nirvana. You move on
Speaker 3: to other things and they pose their own challenges. But
Speaker 3: going through the process of becoming debt free can definitely
Speaker 3: build some of the muscles and resilience that will be
Speaker 3: necessary for some of the future goals. Things you can
Speaker 3: take with you learn from Refine.
Speaker 1: Paying off debt is a fantastic financial goal. It is fantastic.
Speaker 1: It's just not the only one, and it may not
Speaker 1: be the best one for everyone in every season, but
Speaker 1: it is fantastic and so glad that we did it.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that all of you are listening and
Speaker 3: have listened, And I'm also glad for people who leave
Speaker 3: really kind reviews like this one that came from listener
Speaker 3: two one five perfect blend of practical and mindset five stars.
Speaker 3: I've listened to almost the entire backlog, and there's a
Speaker 3: fantastic mix of practical tips and strategies along with mindset
Speaker 3: questions to help you get to the root of your
Speaker 3: decisions and the kind of life you want. They're friendly
Speaker 3: and fun to listen to. Thanks listener to one five.
Speaker 1: Thank you listener to one five. I am host too,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Oh well, thanks for listening again. If you want to
Speaker 3: leave us a review, please go ahead and do that
Speaker 3: wherever we're listening to this podcast, sign up for the
Speaker 3: friend letter. All of these things help us and if
Speaker 3: you want more from us, there's just there's ways to
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: Tune in this summer debt free stories, and the book
Speaker 1: is going to be available for pre order soon. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 3: I'm hungry.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm hungry too. Yeah, we're gonna use me half
Speaker 1: so we're probably gonna yeah.
Speaker 3: But we got sushi sushi on the credit card.
Speaker 1: This is definitely an after show.
Speaker 3: The moment.
Speaker 1: We are in the middle of editing the book and
Speaker 1: it's long days and this is our real ward.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna work hard, eat hard, work hard, eat hard.
Speaker 1: That's that's your takeaway for the day.