WEBVTT - 4,000 Miles Away 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.559 Welcome to the piked In Massacre, A production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:13.080 and KAT Studios, Episode seven, four thousand Miles Away. I'm 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.600 Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Kati's Studios, with Stephanie 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.160 Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After the Rodent family was brutally 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.919 gunned down in their homes, authorities embarked in what would 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.040 become the largest homicide investigation in Ohio's history. Over the 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.520 course of the case's first year, law enforcement officers began 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.360 compiling a staggering amount of clues that they hoped would 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:34.280 lead to the killers. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.120 Ohio Attorney General Mike Dwine, giving an update in the 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:38.040 Pike County murders. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.920 You received eight hundred and eighty three tips. We have 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.320 conducted four hundred and sixty. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:44.720 Five interviews, the Wine says. 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.920 There have also been thirty eight search warns issued, but 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:47.960 so far new arrest. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.080 I think that we've made significant progress. 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.920 But by early twenty seventeen, the evidence that authorities had 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.960 collected was pointing them towards one group of people, in particular, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.959 the Wagner family. That spring, with the case heating up, 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.280 the Wagners decided to leave the Piked in area with 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.480 Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin's daughter Sophia until they sold 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.200 their farm, packed up their belongings, and drove four thousand 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.280 miles north to Keenei, Alaska, a city of about eight 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:23.000 thousand people southwest of Anchorage. It was a move that 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.320 Wagner relative Deray not only encouraged, but conceived of. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.640 They had been wanting to move to Alaska for a 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:33.160 while because the pastor of the church moved there. He's 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.080 very important headstone in their family. I'm the one that 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.000 told him go to Alaska. Number one, the state of 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.000 Ohio can not afford to extradite you from Alaska back home. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.840 I just thought it was the griatest that they took off. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:49.640 I said, that's the best thing in the world for 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.040 the kids, and it's the best thing in the world 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:52.760 for you, guys. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.320 The family quickly got settled in keen I. They lived 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.520 together in a double white trailer on a large piece 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.760 of property. Billy and Angela even registered to vote. Jeff 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.200 talked to one of the Wagner's family relatives who kept 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.480 in touch with them while they were in Alaska. She 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.320 asked us not to use her name, but told us 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:11.960 about their life once they arrived. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.040 What was their life like in Alaska? 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.880 Well, Jake has got a job, it was a construction 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.760 type business. Angela didn't work. I think she might have 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.079 done some things from like home or the Annett or 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.519 something like that. And Bill, I'm not sure what he 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.400 did exactly, but they did have a very nice home 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.720 in Alaska that they were in the process of trying 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.720 to buy from what I understand anyways, and Jake he 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.640 had Sophia at the time, and they just kind of 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.799 work get in by. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.560 The Wagner's sudden departure left the whole town of piped 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.280 and bewildered and suspicious. Dana Roden's friend Stephanne remembers the 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.359 day she heard the news. She shared her thoughts with Jeff. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.600 Well, when they left for Alaska, I was like, Oh, wow, 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.760 they're gonna they're running, you know, they're running. And then 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.680 I thought they'll get away with it if they did this, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.919 if they did this, they will get away with it. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.120 Or people talking about the Wagners, like, was the feeling 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.519 that they might have been guilty or what were people 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.200 thinking or speculating in town. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.880 Yeah, they pretty much thought that, you know that was 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:25.720 the that was the deal. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:27.240 They were running from it. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.280 But the Wagner's relocation didn't hinder the investigation. According to 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.280 reporter James Pilcher, it only helped to move the case forward. 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.040 They moved to Alaska, which raised even more suspicion. But 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.240 then the very following month, law enforcement actually finally searches 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.400 the properties where the Wagners lived. So that was really 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.840 the first public indication that the Wagners were possible suspects, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.720 if not people of interest, So that started to tighten 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.680 the noose in terms of the Wagner's. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.360 On June sixth, twenty seventeen, as the investigation pressed on, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.680 Attorney General Mike DeWine appealed to the public for information 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.360 connecting the Wagoners to the crime. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:14.520 Investigators want any information about the family, including information about vehicles, guns, 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.080 and ammunition. Anyone with information is asked. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:17.800 To call the past uns. 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.039 Investigative journalists Jodi Barr recalled the Attorney General's announcement. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.440 Other than being on the ground in Tight County and 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.119 hearing the Waggers' names come up from time to time 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:31.320 and you had no verifiable leads, or you would exhaust 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.520 all leads, that was the first time that anything was 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.560 said in public from anybody with this investigation that they 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.599 may have people that they were looking at and who 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.880 potentially had something to do with this, and at that time, 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.599 no one knew the extent of the involvement that the 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.680 investigators believed the Waggers may have had. It was just 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.240 they were asking for help, and that seemed really strange. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.479 But it also, on the other hand, it connected some 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.799 of the pieces that we had heard in the beginning, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.200 you know, that maybe gave more weight to the custody 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.800 issues that we were trying to dig into before. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.800 But it was still just it was still. 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.520 Confusing that they would come out and say that and 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:15.240 no arrests made, no indictments made, but yet they were 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.359 asking for help to identify Yeah. 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.000 Is that unusual that they would just kind of like 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.560 blatantly say a name and be like, does anyone know 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.080 anything about this person who's not an official suspect or 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:27.040 someone we've arrested. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.960 Even it's just confusing, and I would love to ask, now, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.839 Governor Mike DeWine, you know why they played it the 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.039 way they played it, You know, did they know what 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:36.840 they needed to know? 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:37.120 Then? 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.800 Were they trying to have the Wagners make a misstep 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.280 when they announced this to the world. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.679 Mike Dewayne's press release prompted the Wagner's family attorney John K. Clark, 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.600 to accuse law enforcement of harassing his clients. Here's Jeff, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.000 followed by Stephanie. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.080 In a statement to the Cincinnati inquire the lawyer said 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.400 that the authorities were clueless and competent where they themselves 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.160 were involved in a cover up. In short, his clients 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:05.679 were innocent. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.320 That's because, according to Clark, the Wagners were cooperating with 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.640 officials and had provided authorities with everything they had asked for, 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:17.080 including laptops, phones, and DNA willingly, and they also agreed 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.520 to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.240 Clark even said that the Wagners told BCI agents that 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:25.599 they were in fact moving. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.719 I spoke with former Ohio Prosecutor Mike Allen about the 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:34.080 legal implications of the Wagner's cooperation. What about the Wagners 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.960 and their compliance with authorities? I know their lawyer has 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.919 said they've cooperated one hundred and ten percent. Can you 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:42.160 talk through the details of. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.760 That, sure? I mean, from what I understand, they did 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.480 turn over some things laptops, phones that they submitted to DNA, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.880 giving exemplars which they could be compelled to do anyway. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.880 Some of them at least were interviewed by Ohio BCI agents, 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.719 and I guess they told those agents that they were 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.799 traveling and about to move to Atlaska, and they claimed 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.240 they had been thinking about that for a long time. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.680 So yeah, I mean, from what I can see, there 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.800 was some cooperation. But whether it was one hundred and 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.320 ten percent, I don't know. And frankly I doubt because 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:18.600 that rarely happens. 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.480 Does that do anything when it comes to juries? You know? 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:23.760 Does that hold sway? 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.680 It can? You know in closing argument and the defense 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.239 lawyer could stand up and say to the jury, my client, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.600 you know, he cooperated one hundred and ten percent, you know, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.840 meaning that he has nothing to hide. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.400 The Cincinnati Inquirer even tracked the family down in Alaska 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.920 in July of twenty seventeen. In a published article, Jake 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.120 Wagner said that he had moved to give Sophia a 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.040 better life. This is Jodi Barr again. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:56.160 The Cincinnati Inquirer obviously went there and they found them. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.720 I mean, it was they didn't try to slip off 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.080 in the middle of the night. It didn't seem I mean, 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.720 if a reporter could find them, then obviously law enforcement 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.720 knew very much where they were at that point in time. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.600 I mean, as far as a level of cooperation, we 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.720 haven't heard anything yet that said the Wagers weren't cooperating 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.680 with the law enforcement. Did they do it? We want 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.800 to know now. Obviously everybody wants to know right now, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.160 and you don't let the process play out. But man, 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.720 if they're cooperating, as this attorney says, they're giving over 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.640 computers and laptop, you know, DNA, whatever it takes. You know, 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.160 people who aren't experts in criminology, we look at that 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.520 and go, well, man, that sounds like an innocent person. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.200 An innocent person will be doing that. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.960 Despite their involvement in a very large and very active 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.800 murder investigation. The Wagners were trying to start a new 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.360 life in Alaska and didn't seem to have any intention 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.800 of returning. Here's our anonymous Wagner family source. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.760 When I would ask interest how things going, You know, winter, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.800 you can come back and visit, or so on and 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.640 so forth, she was kind of just really backwards about it. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.160 She never would really tell me what they were doing. 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.360 She never really said when she would be back home 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.880 to visit, just that she misses us, you know, and 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:12.480 that she would love to be able to come home, 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.480 but right now she can't. And that she made the 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.160 comment on and said that if she did get to 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.600 come back, that she couldn't tell me over the phone, 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.560 that she would just basically have to show up, and 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.800 that once she made it here, then she would contact 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.679 me and let me know, but that she didn't, you know, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.240 want a lot of people to find out about it. 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.880 In Alaska, the family went about life as normal. They 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.520 tried to fit into the local community and became regular 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.480 parishioners at the local church. Their pastor even described them 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.880 to the Dayton Daily News as quote good country people. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.240 We reached out to the pastor, who declined to speak 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.920 with us. It was at this same church that Jake 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:59.199 Wagner was introduced to another churchgoer, Elizabeth Armor. The couple 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.199 dated for several months, and then in March twenty eighteen, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.400 they got married. This is Jodie Barr. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.320 I've seen you know people I know lost of spouse. 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:09.640 You know they're married again. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:10.640 Six months. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:12.920 If he's interested and he got remarried and wanted to 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.199 carry on with his life, then you know, maybe that's it. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.920 But if he really is guilty of having a hand 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.880 and killing eight people and one of those being the 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.600 mother of his own child, and then he enters into 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.600 vows with another woman within months of that, ooh, I 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.719 don't know. I don't know what kind of person you're 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:33.120 dealing with. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:33.360 Here. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.679 Here's Stephanie talking about what she learned by looking at 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.800 Elizabeth Armer's Facebook posts. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.080 She took to Facebook to let the world know just 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.040 how dangerous being involved with the Wagners could be. Elizabeth 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.200 said in one of her posts that God told her 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.800 to come forward about her relationship with Jake Wagner. According 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.960 to her posts, Elizabeth met Jake through the church and 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.360 then was encouraged to get to know him by her pastor. 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.120 But she maintained that she had no idea that the 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.440 Wagners were involved in such a large murder investigation, and 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.360 when that news of the road and massacre came up, 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.160 the pastor had vouched for the Wagners, telling her that 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.360 the charges were just slander against the family. However, in 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.120 another post, she said she wanted to just be a 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.000 mother to Sophia, but that she ended up marrying her 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.720 worst nightmare. All of those posts have since been taken down. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.080 We've tried to find her and contact her directly, and 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.120 she's literally nowhere to be found. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:33.400 Then, in the spring of twenty eighteen, two years after 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.440 the Rodents were killed, the Wagner shocked everyone again, this 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:41.160 time by returning to the Pipedon area. Our Wagner family 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.319 relative explained why they decided. 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.040 To come home from what I like, I said, I 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.360 have understood just some a little bit that I talked 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.000 to Angela and then our family and general talking. They 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.560 had came back home because built family, his father got 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.160 sick and they couldn't afford or they were losing what 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.640 the whole and everything that they had there in Alaska. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.760 So I basically just like it was a handful of 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:10.040 that type of stuff. So they decided that they were 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.880 gonna come back down here and they were just gonna 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:16.640 get everything basically situated here. Once that happened, and once 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.640 they got back on their feet, basically, then they were 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.720 planning to go back. They wanted to go back. Angela 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.880 wanted to go back there. She made that clear to 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.600 her father multiple times that that was going to be, 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.959 you know, a place that they were. They were really 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.959 looking forward. She lived and just wanted to be there, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:36.840 but they had a bunch of stuff that they still 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.440 had to take care of in order for that to happen. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.200 The move seemed to baffle everyone and piked In Here's 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:45.520 local resident Annie. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.560 If you think about it, the Wagoners were scott free. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.040 They went to Alaska. They could have took off and 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.600 nobody could have ever seen them again ever, But they 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:01.800 came back here. They came back. Now, my the way 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.880 that I am, I would never do that. But if 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.520 I had pulled something off like that and got away 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.760 with it that long and went to Alastis, you know, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.000 I'm packing my shit and I'm hitting the woods and 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.520 nobody's ever gonna see me again, I'm sure the hell 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.800 I'm not going to come back. The only way I 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.160 would come back is if I thought my ass covered. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.360 Upon returning to piked In, the Wagoners tried to fly 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.000 under the radar and return to life as normal, but 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.320 our Wagner family relative told Jeff that their homecoming was 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.480 anything but welcome. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.240 When they came back, were people kind of like has 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.959 the story died down or were people like, oh, the 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.920 wagoners are back. It was probably. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.320 Quiet for about I don't know, two three weeks if that, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.400 and then everybody found out that they were back in town, 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:50.480 and they just absolutely tortured. I mean daily. Everybody had 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:57.760 started basically attacking then the community, accusing them of murdering 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.880 those people, like if they were in town and people 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.440 identified their vehicle, they would throw pot bottles at him. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.679 Angela had actually went into a store one day and 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.200 some woman had actually flewed up behind Angela. She was 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.160 coming back out of the store and threw a glass 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.960 key bottle after her and it busted her in the back. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.080 She was constantly getting it was less and right, like 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.760 anybody that knew them or that knew our family. Like 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.200 where we lived, there was a handful of people that 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.840 had drop on my house and then they were throwing stuff. 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.840 Because I lived kind of right on the highway and 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.360 my house is very easy to spot. I have no privacy, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.320 so when they I was getting trash, people were throwing 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.600 their trash out in my yard, in my driveway. They 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.840 were trying to hit us while we were me and 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.320 my son at the time. You know, they were just 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.960 doing my workplace. My vehicle was parked outside and my 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.080 vehicle got keyed. They had, of course through ends on 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.080 it all that type of stuff, wrote murderer on it 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.920 when I had app nothing to do with any of that. 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.000 As things began to unravel for the Wagner's law enforcement 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.760 was tightening up the case against the family. It seemed 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.720 like it was only a matter of time before they 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:12.400 were arrested. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.280 Investigators now believe there were multiple attackers, as according to 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.760 information from the Ohio Attorney General's office. 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.080 The Ohio Attorney General says the investigation is progressing. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.840 Wine adds his office knows a lot more about what 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:26.680 goes on in those Pike County hills. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.040 Now we know a lot more today. 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:29.400 Have we cracked the cage? 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.520 Have we come up with enough evidence to arrest someone 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:33.520 and get them convicted? 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:34.480 No, we have not. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.120 But if we made the progress, oh, yeah, we made 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.320 a lot of progress. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.520 On Halloween of twenty eighteen, authorities conducted yet another search 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.560 on a Wagner family property, this time a farm formerly 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.000 owned by Jake and George Wagner. During that raid, investigators 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.880 uncovered a homemade silencer at the bottom of a well, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:59.920 it would seem to be the final piece of the 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.960 puzzle for investigators. As we discussed in great detail in 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.760 episode two. On November thirteenth, Angela and Billy Wagner and 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.760 their two sons, Jake and George Wagner, were arrested for 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.120 the murders of eight members of the Rodent family and everyone. 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.040 We have major developments tonight in a bizarre and tragic 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:18.680 murder case. 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.760 He took two and a half years, but arrests have 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.240 finally been made in the Pike County massacre. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.800 George Billy Wagner the third, he's forty seven. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.600 Also forty eight year old Angela Wagner. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.840 Twenty seven year old George Wagner the fourth, and twenty 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.920 six year old Edward Jake Wagner are now facing charges. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.240 The Attorney General announced two more arrests of people accused 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:38.520 of being involved. 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.640 Angela's mother, Rita Knugal and Billy's mother, Fredrika Wangner. We're 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.800 also arrested today in conjunction with the cover up of 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:46.560 these crimes. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.680 We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:08.760 back in a moment. Angela, Billy, Jake, and George Wagner 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.080 were charged with aggravated murder. Angela Wagner's mother Rita Joe Nucom, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.840 and Billy Wagner's mother, Frederica were both charged with obstruction 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.720 of justice and perjury. Nucom was also charged with forgery. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.720 All six of them pled not guilty, and our justice 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:28.600 system presumes innocence until guilt is proven at first blush, 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.200 it seems far fetched to believe that these two grandmothers 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.959 had a part in conspiring to pull off Ohio's largest 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.119 mass murder. Jeff spoke with Mike Allen about the charges 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:38.440 against Frederica Wagner. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.240 Frederica has been charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.479 So how do you explain that to someone who you know, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.440 like me, who's never been to law school or doesn't 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:47.280 know what it means. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.520 Well, perjury is pretty simple under Ohio law. It just 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.280 basically says that you cannot knowingly make a false statement 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.320 in an efficient proceeding while you are under oath. It's 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.560 real simple, and the constructing justice is pretty simple as well. 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:08.240 Ohiolall provides that you can't, with purpose to hinder the discovery, apprehension, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:13.360 or prosecution of a person, do anything that would assist 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.560 someone in doing that and that's one that that's charged 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.000 pretty frequently. You don't see perjury charged a lot because 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.480 it's so difficult to prove, but but convicted of both, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.800 she would be facing four years max. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.040 Plainly stated, prosecutors think Frederica was lying to them and 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.040 trying to hinder the investigation to cover up for her family. 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.080 We'll get into the specifics of her charges later. For 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.640 now here, Stephanie, followed by Jeff. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.679 We wondered if there was anything in Frederica Wagner's past 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.320 that could have indicated that she would be involved in 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.800 something as gruesome as mass murder. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.159 As we know, the Wagners were a well known and 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.520 well to do family in the Pecton area, and Frederica 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.720 Wagner was at the helm of this. A self described entrepreneur, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.960 she owned properties oliver Pie County that spanned over seventeen 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.800 hundred acres and were valued at more than four million dollars. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.800 She'd also founded two nonprofits, Lucasville Mission, a church that 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.560 helps underprivileged children, and the Crystal Springs Home, a facility 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.800 that provides services to developmentally disabled adults. As we've learned 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.159 throughout the series, Frederica had her detractors as well as 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.600 her supporters in the community. Growing up, Christina Howard spent 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:23.760 a lot of time with Frederica. In fact, her mom 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.280 worked at the Crystal Springs Home. 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.040 She was pretty well known by everybody, and if she 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:34.400 wasn't doing a charity or something outside of church, since 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.800 she was doing one in church. She owned over two 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.119 hundred acres of land and a lot of people that 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.720 lived on her property that she rented out to. She 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.760 would say, hey, you know, if you come to church, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.960 then I won't charge you a diamond root. And all 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.400 she ever asked of was for them to go to church. 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.160 She was always nice to be growing up. She's never 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.600 yelled at me. She's never really told me no. There 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.439 would be times that I would go to work with 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.720 mom and I would just hang out at Freddy's all 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.240 day long while my mom was working, you know, I 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:17.120 would just hang out feed the horses, the maths, brush them. 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.800 She was literally like a grandma to me growing up. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.800 Deray Paint's a similar portrait of Frederica. She told us 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.280 about the pastoral surroundings of her grandmother's Flying w farms 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.240 and her family's legacy in the area. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:32.879 If you go to their house. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.119 You go eighty eight miles out of Cincinnati east on 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.440 thirty three, and I'm telling you you were in the hills, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.240 the Appalachian. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.359 Hills of Ohio at this time. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.520 Then all of a sudden, you'll see something to the right. 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.000 It looks like a real nice entryway. It's flying w 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:52.919 farms on it. And you look and you see a 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.880 trailer sitting right next to the entrance, a nice entrance 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.080 with wrought iron gates. It's got blind w's on it. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:02.159 Then you look. 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.280 Aways up you see all these little. 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.520 Houses, some of them were catteries. And then she's got 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.720 the pig house, and then she's got the old walking 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.359