WEBVTT - 22. Sleuth's Explosive Finale Farewell to Season One 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:11.319 So I've decided to call Deep Throat on air right 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:16.439 now for my final attempt to see if she will 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.479 in fact come forward on her own and share all 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:25.840 she knows about her conversation with Rachel Buffett and Rachel 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:45.120 Buffett's role in these murders. Okay, welcome to Sleuth. I'm 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:50.040 Linda Sawyer. This is our finale episode. And over the 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.200 last month, I've mentioned to you that there has been 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.160 a person that's come forward that I like to refer 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:02.960 to as Deep Throat, and Deep wrote came forward after 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:10.200 episode nine and shared with me conversations that she had 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:18.360 with Rachel Buffett, very telling conversations of Rachel's involvement, her knowledge, 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:25.080 and what her participation was in these murders. And I 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.920 have been working with Deep Throat now for over a 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:35.080 month trying to convince her to come forward, and she 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.840 has yet to commit to that. I've met with her 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:44.400 several times, and at this point she knows that today's 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.080 the deadline because we are in fact recording our finale episode. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.200 So I've given her a window of three hours that 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:56.560 she has the opportunity to call in and share with 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:02.840 our listeners firsthand all of the information that she knows 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:07.520 that could in fact indict and have Rachel charged as 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:12.480 an accomplice. Deep Throat is a religious person, and up 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.880 till now, I had the faith that she would find 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:21.000 the courage to come forward and tell her story. She 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.680 did reach out to me, and so I want to 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.720 believe that by the end of the recording of this 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.720 finale episode we will hear from her. Otherwise I will 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.560 share what she's told me without revealing her name, because 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.160 I made a promise that she would remain anonymous unless 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.959 she decided to come forward. So with that, I want 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:48.000 it now share with our listeners that throughout the podcast, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.520 it's clear that there have been many questions that have 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.120 come up over the time, over the twists and turns 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.799 that you all have been willing to share on this journey. 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.639 And so why particular person who stood out to me 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.960 as I want to call my number one listening fan, 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.040 Jeff Maddox, who reaches out to me on almost a 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.000 daily basis with questions, really good questions that it made 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.640 me think, why don't you come on the last episode 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:22.000 and represent all of the listeners questions and if we 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.800 could collect all of their questions and including Jeff's, and 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.040 have him come on and turn the tables on me 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.239 and ask me those questions, perhaps that would put to 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:39.640 bed any lingering thoughts, observations, concerns that you have about 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.720 my work on Sleuth. So with that, I would like 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.320 to introduce to our listeners Jeff Maddox. Thank you for 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.320 coming here today. Thank you so much. Linda. I'm it's 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.080 kind of cool to finally be here. You know, I'm 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.720 flattered that you invited me in. And I have been 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.760 asking questions because, like everyone, as I listen, things come up, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.520 I go, wait, what was that about? What? What? What 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.600 was going on doing that? And I think some of 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.840 my questions are not on one second, we have Daniel 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.560 hulk Yard calling in, and Daniel Hulkyard is actually Daniel 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.720 Wazniat pastor. Daniel hulk Yard. Hi, you're you're on the 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:23.120 air live. Thank you for calling. Absolutely So, Uh, how 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:30.000 how did it go with your conversations with Danny Wozniak? Well, 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.560 that went fine. I've we've basically uh touched base on 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.560 the one and uh asking how family members were and everything, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.839 and uh we discussed a few things in general it went, 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.560 it went well. And did you share with him the 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.520 fact that you participated in Sleuth? Yes, I did, and 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.120 he had told me that he had heard all of 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.080 the episodes, and uh, you know, as with anyone who 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.920 depending upon which here you're listening with or what are 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.760 you're looking at it through, he had his differences of opinion, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:07.200 but he did here my my version and he said, yeah, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.760 you're entitled to that, and I said, I know, I'm 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.440 entitled to it. And I think he was referring to 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:17.800 my opinion about Rachel Buffett's participation what my thoughts were, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.760 and I told him that I just told him that, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.200 I just told him what I felt. And uh. I 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.240 told him I thought that they were airing on the 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.400 side of justice, as I would say, they were trying 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.599 to get perspectives from both sides, and uh, you know, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.440 and I encouraged him. I said, if you have a 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.840 difference of opinion with Sleuth, you need to call them 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.520 to to make your case. And I said, other than that, 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.200 we have the bloggers point of view and we have 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.279 Sleuth point of view. And I told him at that time, 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.640 I'm more inclined to listen to Sleuth art because it 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.080 seems to have more of the players who are more objective, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.680 who were there and have nothing to gain from their 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.520 point of view one or the other. And he disagreed. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.000 He you know, he has absolute faith in his blogger. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.240 Are you when you say the blogg are you talking 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:12.120 about the blogger that has the website? Daniel Wozniak is 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:18.120 my friend. Yes, yes, And my bottom line and all 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:23.279 of this, after my conversations with Daniel is that I 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.880 I don't know. I've I'm just not sure anymore. I've 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.120 the Daniel I knew and the Daniel I'm talking to 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.360 they're not the same people. I'm just I'm to come 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.320 to that conclusion, and I've decided that I don't know 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.960 what to believe anymore. I am talking to Daniel. I 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:45.120 just feel like there's just it's hard to get a 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.400 handle on and things that didn't know that actually happened 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.239 that I've heard. He he says he won't go into 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.120 it because he says, there are certain records that you 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:59.680 know that have everything that absolutely happened, uh that he 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.200 can be discussed because of some kind of thing about well, 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.800 I guess a while back here, h there's that thing 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.000 in the Orange County jail system where they were snitching, 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:12.720 going on all kinds of stuff. And he said, because 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.600 of that, there's certain people they need to have interviewed 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.239 and they can't. And this went on, and I said, finally, 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.160 I said, Dan, stop, I said, you know what, this 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:23.920 is the way over my head. I said, I have. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.200 All I've asked is that I'd like to help you 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.800 with your ministry. I'd like if you feel that you 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.680 have been absolutely truthful and everything. But I said, that's 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.480 got to be your call. I said, I really don't 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.680 want to discuss this anymore because Linda, I don't know 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.040 what the truth is anymore. I'm just not talked to Dan. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.040 I don't know if I'm being put on now. Why 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.760 was he upset with what you said about Rachel. You 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:51.960 would think that that would have pleased him. No, I 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.880 don't think it did, because I think there's so much 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.480 more connected to all of this. I don't think we'll 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.720 ever get the truth here. But I do believe that 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:03.160 someone's hiding someone from someone, and I just I don't 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.440 I don't understand anymore. He took issue with the fact 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.880 that his that that Darrell died because of the injuries. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.240 He took issue with that and said that was not 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:18.560 true and that evidently the brother, whoever it was, was 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.600 banished and told to leave the family. Well, I mean, 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.520 I mean the injuries were a direct result of him 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.440 going into a coma. Well that I don't know. I 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.520 aparned that. He denies a lot of it and said 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.800 that the brother is not allowed around there anymore. Right, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.160 that's why. That's why the brother is not allowed any 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.680 there anymore, because he beat him to a pulp. And 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.080 you know what, Bob Castillo came on the show and said, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.600 I saw him moments after he was beaten by Mike 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:50.160 and he had bruises and black eyes and bleeding everywhere. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.760 It's sad because this is not the family I knew. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.400 And I feel from Merry in his mom I feel 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.640 for all of them what's going on there, and this 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.080 is tragic. And I never once got remorse for the 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.760 victims that didn't even come up. It wasn't even volunteered. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.440 And usually the dan, I know what, I'll apologize or 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.160 something like that, and felt bad, But that Dan's going 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.839 that the Danson San Quentin, and my feeling is the 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.960 Dan that belongs to San Quentin. What he did was unforgivable, 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.360 but his lack of remorse is even more unforgivable. I 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.880 just it just breaks my heart. I don't know what 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.560 he's hiding, I don't know who he's hiding, but I 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.160 don't think the total truth has come up well he. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.080 I think that we know that the the taking on 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:41.880 Rachel and and framing her for her role in these 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.320 murders are directly correlated to Tim's role in the murders. 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.480 And I think that that's what's that's what's the big 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.600 secret here. That's a shame. But I look at it 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.439 this way, Linda. Unless someone goes after Dan, unless something breaks, 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.840 it's not gonna happen. I mean, it's so now here. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.520 So now you feel like you you won't be able 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.199 to get the truth out of him at this point, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.120 it sounds to me like that's what you're feeling. No, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.800 I honestly feel that way. I don't think the truth 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.280 is going to come out and I don't and I've 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.360 discussed it with my family and I just said, you 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.280 know what, my family and I we need we need 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.240 to move on. This is sad, but we appreciate your efforts. 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.880 I will always support Sloth and what you've done. I 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.920 think you've done an admirable job. You know, what do 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.360 you do when you have a pathological liar and that's 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.480 the only source you can get to. I mean, boy, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.319 you're you're taking that's a toy. Cause there when I 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.280 talked to him on the phone, he was like, oh 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.400 my god. If I had not known Dan, I thought 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.400 we had gone back ten years because he was that charming. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:44.920 But then something about what he was saying and how 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.120 he said and what he was abating, I just said, yikes, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.320 this is not the Dan I knew. This is a 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.160 different man that sitting in Quentin. And I pretty God 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.360 will guide him and what he's going to do. But 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.920 that's his call. And as far as all the people 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.760 have been involved, I'm just I'm so sad for the 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.880 families and for what everybody went through, the lives that 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.440 were touched. But I appreciate the effort you put forth. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.280 Do you put a gallant effort forth? And in the end, 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.679 the story is not finished. We don't know how it 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.480 completely ended, and we won't. I just don't think we will. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.320 And who knows when Dan's gonna tell the truth or not. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.200 I don't know. Are you still Are you still planning 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.400 on going to see him on January onee? No, No, 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.320 I cut that off. I've it hurts too much. I can't. 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.000 I'm not going to spend two hours and you know, 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.560 I'm not going to spend two hours be like too, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.480 And that's about what it's going to turn out to be. 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.600 It's that's what that's I just don't want to do that. 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.760 And I'm just it's it's a waste of my time. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:51.079 And I've I've waited heavily. I prayed about it, I 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.120 thought about it. I said, no, I said, I got 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.719 to let let's go. You know, I've I hope you're 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.800 able to pursue however further you're going to pursue, But 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.400 that and is not ever going to tell you the 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.880 truth because I don't think honestly, Dan Wisnia knows the truth. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.480 You know. The one thing about the truth versus a lie, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.800 you don't have to remember the truth. It's always going 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.280 to be there. It's those lies that you have to 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:16.760 sort it out and go, oh, was that the truth? 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.440 Is that the truth? He knows the truth, he just 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.559 refuses to share it for whatever reasons. No, I don't know, 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.199 but I wish, I wish his family, his mom very well, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.360 that I've always turned but Dan, right now, I'm very 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.640 frustrated with I mean, well, very frustrated Daniel. We appreciate 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.040 you coming on and telling us everything and sharing with us, 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.600 and I can hear in your voice how painful this 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.920 all is, and I know how much it meant to 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.079 you to be able to reach out to him and 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.520 and maybe get some answers so that there could be 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.080 justice all around here. But thank you for all your efforts, Daniel, 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.160 and we will keep in touch. Okay, thank you learned 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:07.079 that was a surprise, that was that was indeed, and uh, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.280 it's unfortunate, but I think he just learned a lot 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.560 more about his old dear friend, Daniel Wozniak than he 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.320 probably didn't want to accept um till now. Yeah, I 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.040 guess the moral of the story is people change and 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.040 whether you believe they can change it not. It sounds like, 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.520 I mean, you could hear the hurt in his voice 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.720 when he's talking about how much of a different person 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:35.720 he is compared to the Danielle knew he was planning 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.560 on seeing him January one and San Quentin, but I 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.560 guess the phone calls are just too much to bear. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.160 So this was just a phone call that he had 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.520 with him. He's had several almost daily in the last 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:51.439 couple of weeks. So the fact that he's decided against 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.600 visiting him says a lot. Yeah, it does. I wonder 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.960 if that's going to change. I don't know. I wonder 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.160 I wonder if this if maybe he was a source 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.880 of support for him, even though he's not apparently being 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.120 honest with him, if he was some sort of source 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.520 of support, and the lack of phone calls, because it 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.240 sounds like he's done. It sounds like he just just done. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.560 So I wonder if the lack of this contact might 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.480 make him change his tune a little bit, maybe to 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.040 come maybe to get him to come around. So, I 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.280 don't know. I don't know. He has the blogger, yeah, 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.760 that reaches out to him, and and his mother, and 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.280 I think they both are there for him, whether it's 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.440 financially or emotionally or otherwise. They they're the two that 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.400 really are the steady influences in his life at this point. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.640 So I guess we'll just have to wait and see 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.880 if we see something on dateline or CNN or the 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:46.320 news at some point that things have changed, maybe that 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.960 would be even better. So let's begin now your questions 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.880 that you've collected from various listeners I have, so I 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.680 wanted to get started by kind of refreshing everyone's memory 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.760 on what made you so passionate about the story. It 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.560 really had a connection with my children and the fact 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.000 that these were all musical theater people that were involved 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.400 in this case, and I just I couldn't imagine that 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:18.080 a person for musical theater would be capable of chopping 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.280 up there, you know, killing their friends in there in 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.600 the attic of a theater where they're performing in and 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.040 chopping them up. It's just it was like the real 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.120 life Phantom of the Opera. And it just shook me 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.760 to the core because one of my daughters could have 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.720 been kissing Daniel Wasna on stage, and that really did 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.840 horrify me. And for so long, for so many years 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:42.160 growing up as kids and even into college, my kids 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.920 were passionate about musical theater. That was a safe haven 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.600 for them, and so I had to find out what 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.880 happened here. I mean, it almost sounds like he's two 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.400 different people. The one person on stage that that's kissing 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.640 girls and pretending to whatever, and then the other person 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.840 who is even remotely whether it's from outside forces or 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.240 not even remotely capable of taking such an action. And 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.840 that's probably and I think I'd have to agree that's 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.280 part of one of the reasons it's been this is 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.280 Sleuth has been so compelling for me is to hear 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.920 the story of what happened, how it happened, and are 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.200 you serious a person like that can do that well? Funny? 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.000 His favorite one of his favorite roles in musical theater 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.760 was jackal and Hyde. The irony, the irony. Um So 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.960 getting into the questions. One of the things we talked 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:37.680 a lot about was some of the comments on Facebook 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.480 and everywhere the podcast can be heard. I heart the 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.520 app One of the things that a lot of people 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:50.520 had kind of talked about is obviously your motivation, your 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.320 long term goal for this particular podcast, this season of Sleuth, 0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:00.760 and whether it's to help the prosecution to get to 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.440 to obviously to uncover a lot of information, which I 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.960 think you've been amazingly successful at doing so. Certainly, congratulations 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.080 on doing that, because you've obviously worked really hard. Do 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.199 you feel like you've been successful. As this is the 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:18.080 final episode, do you feel like this has been a success. Well, 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.880 I sure hope that Deep Throat decides to call in. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.199 Is that I think would be the final piece of 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.960 the puzzle. And I never like to walk away from 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.520 a puzzle unless it's finished. While I can share with 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.760 my listeners what she told me, obviously, it would be 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.240 incredible if, if, if she could come forward and and 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.000 and tell tell, tell the story herself. But I have 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.879 worked very hard and I appreciate you recognizing that. And 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.959 I do feel like even if the justice that I 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.800 was hoping for for the victims families, even if some 0:17:55.880 --> 0:18:00.639 of these others that were involved in this horrific tragedy, 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.560 if they weren't brought to justice, at least from a 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.840 social media aspect, and at least for all of my listeners, 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.520 they know the truth. They know what happened here. Um, 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.960 you might not have found it out in the courtroom, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.119 but social media could be a whole another courtroom in 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:24.360 and of itself, because nobody is going to google any 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.960 of these people's names without having them connected to this case. 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.359 And I think the more people that listen to Sleuth, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.160 the more they're going to know how deeply they all 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:40.679 were involved. Do you feel like I mean, obviously, listening 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.920 to the show, it's not hard to see that what 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.760 you're trying to do is come up with evidence. Neither 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:55.080 the prosecution chose not to present or couldn't find themselves. Probably, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.320 I'm guessing they've got a lot of money that the 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:00.560 budgets pretty big. They've got some deepockets over there, probably 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.679 have most of the information I would imagine that you've presented. Um, 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.679 do you think your motivation had anything to do with 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.560 wanting to compel them to release some of the information 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.320 or to use some of that information. Well, I just 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:20.800 wanted the public to understand that you're not always going 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.440 to get the truth in a courtroom. You're not gonna 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:29.800 always here everything that happened in a case from a courtroom, 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:36.359 or even from headlines or broadcast shows like Dateline or 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.320 or forty eight Hours. There's only a limited amount of 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.200 time they have to tell a story, and it's usually 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.679 based on the goings on and the happenings in the courtroom. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:52.240 So I just thought, in this particular case, because there 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.040 was a narrative that it was Dan and Dan alone, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:01.040 that's just struck me as not entirely truthful, that I 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.040 felt like there was more to this story, and if 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:09.800 I continued on the path of learning and and connecting 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.560 with other people that were involved in the story, that 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.439 I would get the answers that would flush out the 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.240 picture of what really happened to Sam and Julie and 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.600 to expose who else was really involved into what extent. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.160 And the only way to do that is is get 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.000 out there and do investigating, you know, and just stick 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.520 with it and and even if you're an island, onto 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:39.400 yourself sometimes because when you're telling the truth and when 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:45.160 you're investigating a case like this, you can't always please 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.320 everyone all the time. There's going to be hurt feelings 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.120 at some point, there's going to be people that disagree 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.359 with you or or want to dismiss you. But you 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.760 can't let that stop you. You have to keep going 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.639 because that is the only way you get the full picture, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.879 is to just keep going and keep interviewing people and 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:13.320 keep learning the story behind the story. More people involved, 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.879 like two sets of footprints maybe. Um, So, speaking of time, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.560 how much time do you think you've put I mean, 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.720 you said it was what five years ago or so? 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.040 That you first heard about the story. If you had 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.159 to quantify, just off the top of your head, if 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:29.960 you had to pick a number, how much time do 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.320 you think you spent us in addition to the podcast 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:37.200 on this particular case, Well, it was early December when 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.240 I first heard about it. So it's been three years years. 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:45.240 And I think the fact that you know, my children 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.479 are are raised in our young adults, living their lives 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:53.320 and they don't need necessarily my physical time as much 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.240 as they used to. Um And because I'm not married, 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.240 and it's probably going to remain that way if I 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:03.479 continue to be investigative reporter I have. I have my 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:08.480 time to choose how and where I use that time. 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.600 So I I just I'm a seven day a week girl. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.480 Whenever someone calls or I hear from someone or a 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.600 source that says, you know, meet me at such and 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:24.640 such diner at midnight, I go. And yeah, I mean 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:26.639 I don't have anybody to answer to. I don't have 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.439 to like sneak out of a bed or have dinner 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.479 ready at a certain time so that I can go 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.960 somewhere to to talk to a new source. It's it's 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:40.879 really my call, my decision, and my life. So I 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:45.280 I chose to commit my life to this case because 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.040 of the reasons I told you earlier, and because I 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.119 care so much about the families, And I felt like 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.920 there was a certain level of political expedients to this 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.600 case because it was a death penalty case, because there 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:03.960 was a diving force in the District attorney's office where 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.360 they needed to win this at all costs, because their 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:09.200 cameras were in the courtroom. They weren't going to lose 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.720 in front of the cameras. There was a narrative that 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.840 Dan and Dan alone committed these crimes, and it just 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:18.240 didn't sit well with me. It sounds like there's plenty 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.800 of evidence to prove otherwise, but for one reason another 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:27.840 political or not, they aren't interested. Perhaps would you agree 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.439 In the end, it's it's all about justice and we 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:34.600 have to have faith in the justice system. If we 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.840 lose faith in the justice system, we lose everything. So, 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:44.760 speaking of politics, there's a new d A. After over 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.920 twenty years, there's a new DA. Do you think Todd Spitzer, 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.960 in your opinion, is going to maybe re look at 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:57.320 this well. I've been told he's aware of the podcast 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.960 and that he has been listening and oh, it's my 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:05.240 earnest hope that he does re examine the case of 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:09.280 Rachel Buffett as well as Tim and know A Buffett. 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:14.640 But it's too early to be able to predict where 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:19.399 he would potentially go with that, and we'll see. I 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:23.040 wanted to address just to put it out there. I 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:26.159 listened to the obviously the press conference where you were 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:31.920 called out. That's pretty powerful stuff. So just to put 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:35.880 it out there plain English, do you believe Daniel Wisnac 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.879