1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: So I've decided to call Deep Throat on air right 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: now for my final attempt to see if she will 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: in fact come forward on her own and share all 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: she knows about her conversation with Rachel Buffett and Rachel 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Buffett's role in these murders. Okay, welcome to Sleuth. I'm 7 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Linda Sawyer. This is our finale episode. And over the 8 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: last month, I've mentioned to you that there has been 9 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: a person that's come forward that I like to refer 10 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: to as Deep Throat, and Deep wrote came forward after 11 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: episode nine and shared with me conversations that she had 12 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: with Rachel Buffett, very telling conversations of Rachel's involvement, her knowledge, 13 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: and what her participation was in these murders. And I 14 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: have been working with Deep Throat now for over a 15 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: month trying to convince her to come forward, and she 16 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: has yet to commit to that. I've met with her 17 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: several times, and at this point she knows that today's 18 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: the deadline because we are in fact recording our finale episode. 19 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: So I've given her a window of three hours that 20 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: she has the opportunity to call in and share with 21 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: our listeners firsthand all of the information that she knows 22 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: that could in fact indict and have Rachel charged as 23 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: an accomplice. Deep Throat is a religious person, and up 24 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: till now, I had the faith that she would find 25 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: the courage to come forward and tell her story. She 26 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: did reach out to me, and so I want to 27 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: believe that by the end of the recording of this 28 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: finale episode we will hear from her. Otherwise I will 29 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: share what she's told me without revealing her name, because 30 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: I made a promise that she would remain anonymous unless 31 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: she decided to come forward. So with that, I want 32 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: it now share with our listeners that throughout the podcast, 33 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: it's clear that there have been many questions that have 34 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: come up over the time, over the twists and turns 35 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: that you all have been willing to share on this journey. 36 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: And so why particular person who stood out to me 37 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: as I want to call my number one listening fan, 38 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: Jeff Maddox, who reaches out to me on almost a 39 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: daily basis with questions, really good questions that it made 40 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: me think, why don't you come on the last episode 41 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: and represent all of the listeners questions and if we 42 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: could collect all of their questions and including Jeff's, and 43 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: have him come on and turn the tables on me 44 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: and ask me those questions, perhaps that would put to 45 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: bed any lingering thoughts, observations, concerns that you have about 46 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: my work on Sleuth. So with that, I would like 47 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: to introduce to our listeners Jeff Maddox. Thank you for 48 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: coming here today. Thank you so much. Linda. I'm it's 49 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of cool to finally be here. You know, I'm 50 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: flattered that you invited me in. And I have been 51 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: asking questions because, like everyone, as I listen, things come up, 52 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: I go, wait, what was that about? What? What? What 53 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: was going on doing that? And I think some of 54 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: my questions are not on one second, we have Daniel 55 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: hulk Yard calling in, and Daniel Hulkyard is actually Daniel 56 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: Wazniat pastor. Daniel hulk Yard. Hi, you're you're on the 57 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: air live. Thank you for calling. Absolutely So, Uh, how 58 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: how did it go with your conversations with Danny Wozniak? Well, 59 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: that went fine. I've we've basically uh touched base on 60 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: the one and uh asking how family members were and everything, 61 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: and uh we discussed a few things in general it went, 62 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: it went well. And did you share with him the 63 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: fact that you participated in Sleuth? Yes, I did, and 64 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: he had told me that he had heard all of 65 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: the episodes, and uh, you know, as with anyone who 66 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: depending upon which here you're listening with or what are 67 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: you're looking at it through, he had his differences of opinion, 68 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: but he did here my my version and he said, yeah, 69 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: you're entitled to that, and I said, I know, I'm 70 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: entitled to it. And I think he was referring to 71 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: my opinion about Rachel Buffett's participation what my thoughts were, 72 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: and I told him that I just told him that, 73 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: I just told him what I felt. And uh. I 74 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: told him I thought that they were airing on the 75 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: side of justice, as I would say, they were trying 76 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: to get perspectives from both sides, and uh, you know, 77 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: and I encouraged him. I said, if you have a 78 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: difference of opinion with Sleuth, you need to call them 79 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: to to make your case. And I said, other than that, 80 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: we have the bloggers point of view and we have 81 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: Sleuth point of view. And I told him at that time, 82 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: I'm more inclined to listen to Sleuth art because it 83 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: seems to have more of the players who are more objective, 84 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: who were there and have nothing to gain from their 85 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: point of view one or the other. And he disagreed. 86 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: He you know, he has absolute faith in his blogger. 87 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: Are you when you say the blogg are you talking 88 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: about the blogger that has the website? Daniel Wozniak is 89 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: my friend. Yes, yes, And my bottom line and all 90 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: of this, after my conversations with Daniel is that I 91 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've I'm just not sure anymore. I've 92 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: the Daniel I knew and the Daniel I'm talking to 93 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: they're not the same people. I'm just I'm to come 94 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: to that conclusion, and I've decided that I don't know 95 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: what to believe anymore. I am talking to Daniel. I 96 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: just feel like there's just it's hard to get a 97 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: handle on and things that didn't know that actually happened 98 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: that I've heard. He he says he won't go into 99 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: it because he says, there are certain records that you 100 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: know that have everything that absolutely happened, uh that he 101 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: can be discussed because of some kind of thing about well, 102 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: I guess a while back here, h there's that thing 103 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: in the Orange County jail system where they were snitching, 104 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: going on all kinds of stuff. And he said, because 105 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: of that, there's certain people they need to have interviewed 106 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 1: and they can't. And this went on, and I said, finally, 107 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: I said, Dan, stop, I said, you know what, this 108 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: is the way over my head. I said, I have. 109 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: All I've asked is that I'd like to help you 110 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: with your ministry. I'd like if you feel that you 111 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: have been absolutely truthful and everything. But I said, that's 112 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: got to be your call. I said, I really don't 113 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: want to discuss this anymore because Linda, I don't know 114 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: what the truth is anymore. I'm just not talked to Dan. 115 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm being put on now. Why 116 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: was he upset with what you said about Rachel. You 117 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: would think that that would have pleased him. No, I 118 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: don't think it did, because I think there's so much 119 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: more connected to all of this. I don't think we'll 120 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: ever get the truth here. But I do believe that 121 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: someone's hiding someone from someone, and I just I don't 122 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: I don't understand anymore. He took issue with the fact 123 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: that his that that Darrell died because of the injuries. 124 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: He took issue with that and said that was not 125 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: true and that evidently the brother, whoever it was, was 126 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: banished and told to leave the family. Well, I mean, 127 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: I mean the injuries were a direct result of him 128 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: going into a coma. Well that I don't know. I 129 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: aparned that. He denies a lot of it and said 130 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: that the brother is not allowed around there anymore. Right, 131 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: that's why. That's why the brother is not allowed any 132 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: there anymore, because he beat him to a pulp. And 133 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: you know what, Bob Castillo came on the show and said, 134 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: I saw him moments after he was beaten by Mike 135 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: and he had bruises and black eyes and bleeding everywhere. 136 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: It's sad because this is not the family I knew. 137 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: And I feel from Merry in his mom I feel 138 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: for all of them what's going on there, and this 139 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: is tragic. And I never once got remorse for the 140 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: victims that didn't even come up. It wasn't even volunteered. 141 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: And usually the dan, I know what, I'll apologize or 142 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: something like that, and felt bad, But that Dan's going 143 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: that the Danson San Quentin, and my feeling is the 144 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: Dan that belongs to San Quentin. What he did was unforgivable, 145 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: but his lack of remorse is even more unforgivable. I 146 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: just it just breaks my heart. I don't know what 147 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: he's hiding, I don't know who he's hiding, but I 148 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: don't think the total truth has come up well he. 149 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: I think that we know that the the taking on 150 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: Rachel and and framing her for her role in these 151 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: murders are directly correlated to Tim's role in the murders. 152 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: And I think that that's what's that's what's the big 153 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: secret here. That's a shame. But I look at it 154 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: this way, Linda. Unless someone goes after Dan, unless something breaks, 155 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen. I mean, it's so now here. 156 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: So now you feel like you you won't be able 157 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: to get the truth out of him at this point, 158 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: it sounds to me like that's what you're feeling. No, 159 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: I honestly feel that way. I don't think the truth 160 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: is going to come out and I don't and I've 161 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: discussed it with my family and I just said, you 162 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: know what, my family and I we need we need 163 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: to move on. This is sad, but we appreciate your efforts. 164 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: I will always support Sloth and what you've done. I 165 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: think you've done an admirable job. You know, what do 166 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: you do when you have a pathological liar and that's 167 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: the only source you can get to. I mean, boy, 168 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: you're you're taking that's a toy. Cause there when I 169 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: talked to him on the phone, he was like, oh 170 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: my god. If I had not known Dan, I thought 171 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: we had gone back ten years because he was that charming. 172 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: But then something about what he was saying and how 173 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: he said and what he was abating, I just said, yikes, 174 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: this is not the Dan I knew. This is a 175 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: different man that sitting in Quentin. And I pretty God 176 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: will guide him and what he's going to do. But 177 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: that's his call. And as far as all the people 178 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: have been involved, I'm just I'm so sad for the 179 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: families and for what everybody went through, the lives that 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: were touched. But I appreciate the effort you put forth. 181 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: Do you put a gallant effort forth? And in the end, 182 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: the story is not finished. We don't know how it 183 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: completely ended, and we won't. I just don't think we will. 184 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: And who knows when Dan's gonna tell the truth or not. 185 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. Are you still Are you still planning 186 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: on going to see him on January onee? No, No, 187 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: I cut that off. I've it hurts too much. I can't. 188 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend two hours and you know, 189 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend two hours be like too, 190 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: And that's about what it's going to turn out to be. 191 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: It's that's what that's I just don't want to do that. 192 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: And I'm just it's it's a waste of my time. 193 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 1: And I've I've waited heavily. I prayed about it, I 194 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: thought about it. I said, no, I said, I got 195 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: to let let's go. You know, I've I hope you're 196 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: able to pursue however further you're going to pursue, But 197 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: that and is not ever going to tell you the 198 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: truth because I don't think honestly, Dan Wisnia knows the truth. 199 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: You know. The one thing about the truth versus a lie, 200 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to remember the truth. It's always going 201 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: to be there. It's those lies that you have to 202 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: sort it out and go, oh, was that the truth? 203 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: Is that the truth? He knows the truth, he just 204 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: refuses to share it for whatever reasons. No, I don't know, 205 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: but I wish, I wish his family, his mom very well, 206 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: that I've always turned but Dan, right now, I'm very 207 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: frustrated with I mean, well, very frustrated Daniel. We appreciate 208 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: you coming on and telling us everything and sharing with us, 209 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: and I can hear in your voice how painful this 210 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: all is, and I know how much it meant to 211 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: you to be able to reach out to him and 212 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: and maybe get some answers so that there could be 213 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: justice all around here. But thank you for all your efforts, Daniel, 214 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: and we will keep in touch. Okay, thank you learned 215 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: that was a surprise, that was that was indeed, and uh, 216 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: it's unfortunate, but I think he just learned a lot 217 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: more about his old dear friend, Daniel Wozniak than he 218 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: probably didn't want to accept um till now. Yeah, I 219 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: guess the moral of the story is people change and 220 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: whether you believe they can change it not. It sounds like, 221 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you could hear the hurt in his voice 222 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: when he's talking about how much of a different person 223 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: he is compared to the Danielle knew he was planning 224 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: on seeing him January one and San Quentin, but I 225 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: guess the phone calls are just too much to bear. 226 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: So this was just a phone call that he had 227 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: with him. He's had several almost daily in the last 228 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. So the fact that he's decided against 229 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: visiting him says a lot. Yeah, it does. I wonder 230 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: if that's going to change. I don't know. I wonder 231 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: I wonder if this if maybe he was a source 232 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: of support for him, even though he's not apparently being 233 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: honest with him, if he was some sort of source 234 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: of support, and the lack of phone calls, because it 235 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: sounds like he's done. It sounds like he just just done. 236 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: So I wonder if the lack of this contact might 237 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: make him change his tune a little bit, maybe to 238 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: come maybe to get him to come around. So, I 239 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. He has the blogger, yeah, 240 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: that reaches out to him, and and his mother, and 241 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: I think they both are there for him, whether it's 242 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: financially or emotionally or otherwise. They they're the two that 243 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: really are the steady influences in his life at this point. 244 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: So I guess we'll just have to wait and see 245 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: if we see something on dateline or CNN or the 246 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: news at some point that things have changed, maybe that 247 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: would be even better. So let's begin now your questions 248 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: that you've collected from various listeners I have, so I 249 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: wanted to get started by kind of refreshing everyone's memory 250 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: on what made you so passionate about the story. It 251 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: really had a connection with my children and the fact 252 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: that these were all musical theater people that were involved 253 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: in this case, and I just I couldn't imagine that 254 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: a person for musical theater would be capable of chopping 255 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: up there, you know, killing their friends in there in 256 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: the attic of a theater where they're performing in and 257 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: chopping them up. It's just it was like the real 258 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: life Phantom of the Opera. And it just shook me 259 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: to the core because one of my daughters could have 260 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: been kissing Daniel Wasna on stage, and that really did 261 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: horrify me. And for so long, for so many years 262 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: growing up as kids and even into college, my kids 263 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: were passionate about musical theater. That was a safe haven 264 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: for them, and so I had to find out what 265 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: happened here. I mean, it almost sounds like he's two 266 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: different people. The one person on stage that that's kissing 267 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: girls and pretending to whatever, and then the other person 268 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: who is even remotely whether it's from outside forces or 269 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: not even remotely capable of taking such an action. And 270 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: that's probably and I think I'd have to agree that's 271 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: part of one of the reasons it's been this is 272 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: Sleuth has been so compelling for me is to hear 273 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: the story of what happened, how it happened, and are 274 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: you serious a person like that can do that well? Funny? 275 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: His favorite one of his favorite roles in musical theater 276 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: was jackal and Hyde. The irony, the irony. Um So 277 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: getting into the questions. One of the things we talked 278 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: a lot about was some of the comments on Facebook 279 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: and everywhere the podcast can be heard. I heart the 280 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: app One of the things that a lot of people 281 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: had kind of talked about is obviously your motivation, your 282 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: long term goal for this particular podcast, this season of Sleuth, 283 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: and whether it's to help the prosecution to get to 284 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: to obviously to uncover a lot of information, which I 285 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: think you've been amazingly successful at doing so. Certainly, congratulations 286 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: on doing that, because you've obviously worked really hard. Do 287 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: you feel like you've been successful. As this is the 288 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: final episode, do you feel like this has been a success. Well, 289 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: I sure hope that Deep Throat decides to call in. 290 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: Is that I think would be the final piece of 291 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: the puzzle. And I never like to walk away from 292 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: a puzzle unless it's finished. While I can share with 293 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: my listeners what she told me, obviously, it would be 294 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: incredible if, if, if she could come forward and and 295 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: and tell tell, tell the story herself. But I have 296 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: worked very hard and I appreciate you recognizing that. And 297 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: I do feel like even if the justice that I 298 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: was hoping for for the victims families, even if some 299 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: of these others that were involved in this horrific tragedy, 300 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: if they weren't brought to justice, at least from a 301 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: social media aspect, and at least for all of my listeners, 302 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: they know the truth. They know what happened here. Um, 303 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: you might not have found it out in the courtroom, 304 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: but social media could be a whole another courtroom in 305 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: and of itself, because nobody is going to google any 306 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: of these people's names without having them connected to this case. 307 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: And I think the more people that listen to Sleuth, 308 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: the more they're going to know how deeply they all 309 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: were involved. Do you feel like I mean, obviously, listening 310 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: to the show, it's not hard to see that what 311 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: you're trying to do is come up with evidence. Neither 312 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: the prosecution chose not to present or couldn't find themselves. Probably, 313 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm guessing they've got a lot of money that the 314 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: budgets pretty big. They've got some deepockets over there, probably 315 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: have most of the information I would imagine that you've presented. Um, 316 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: do you think your motivation had anything to do with 317 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: wanting to compel them to release some of the information 318 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: or to use some of that information. Well, I just 319 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: wanted the public to understand that you're not always going 320 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: to get the truth in a courtroom. You're not gonna 321 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: always here everything that happened in a case from a courtroom, 322 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: or even from headlines or broadcast shows like Dateline or 323 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: or forty eight Hours. There's only a limited amount of 324 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: time they have to tell a story, and it's usually 325 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: based on the goings on and the happenings in the courtroom. 326 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: So I just thought, in this particular case, because there 327 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: was a narrative that it was Dan and Dan alone, 328 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: that's just struck me as not entirely truthful, that I 329 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: felt like there was more to this story, and if 330 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: I continued on the path of learning and and connecting 331 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: with other people that were involved in the story, that 332 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: I would get the answers that would flush out the 333 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: picture of what really happened to Sam and Julie and 334 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: to expose who else was really involved into what extent. 335 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: And the only way to do that is is get 336 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: out there and do investigating, you know, and just stick 337 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: with it and and even if you're an island, onto 338 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: yourself sometimes because when you're telling the truth and when 339 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: you're investigating a case like this, you can't always please 340 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: everyone all the time. There's going to be hurt feelings 341 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: at some point, there's going to be people that disagree 342 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: with you or or want to dismiss you. But you 343 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: can't let that stop you. You have to keep going 344 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: because that is the only way you get the full picture, 345 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: is to just keep going and keep interviewing people and 346 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: keep learning the story behind the story. More people involved, 347 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: like two sets of footprints maybe. Um, So, speaking of time, 348 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: how much time do you think you've put I mean, 349 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: you said it was what five years ago or so? 350 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: That you first heard about the story. If you had 351 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: to quantify, just off the top of your head, if 352 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: you had to pick a number, how much time do 353 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: you think you spent us in addition to the podcast 354 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: on this particular case, Well, it was early December when 355 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: I first heard about it. So it's been three years years. 356 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: And I think the fact that you know, my children 357 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,479 Speaker 1: are are raised in our young adults, living their lives 358 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: and they don't need necessarily my physical time as much 359 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: as they used to. Um And because I'm not married, 360 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: and it's probably going to remain that way if I 361 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 1: continue to be investigative reporter I have. I have my 362 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: time to choose how and where I use that time. 363 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: So I I just I'm a seven day a week girl. 364 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: Whenever someone calls or I hear from someone or a 365 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: source that says, you know, meet me at such and 366 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: such diner at midnight, I go. And yeah, I mean 367 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: I don't have anybody to answer to. I don't have 368 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: to like sneak out of a bed or have dinner 369 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: ready at a certain time so that I can go 370 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: somewhere to to talk to a new source. It's it's 371 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: really my call, my decision, and my life. So I 372 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: I chose to commit my life to this case because 373 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: of the reasons I told you earlier, and because I 374 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: care so much about the families, And I felt like 375 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: there was a certain level of political expedients to this 376 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: case because it was a death penalty case, because there 377 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: was a diving force in the District attorney's office where 378 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: they needed to win this at all costs, because their 379 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: cameras were in the courtroom. They weren't going to lose 380 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: in front of the cameras. There was a narrative that 381 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: Dan and Dan alone committed these crimes, and it just 382 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: didn't sit well with me. It sounds like there's plenty 383 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: of evidence to prove otherwise, but for one reason another 384 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: political or not, they aren't interested. Perhaps would you agree 385 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: In the end, it's it's all about justice and we 386 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: have to have faith in the justice system. If we 387 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: lose faith in the justice system, we lose everything. So, 388 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: speaking of politics, there's a new d A. After over 389 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: twenty years, there's a new DA. Do you think Todd Spitzer, 390 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: in your opinion, is going to maybe re look at 391 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: this well. I've been told he's aware of the podcast 392 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: and that he has been listening and oh, it's my 393 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: earnest hope that he does re examine the case of 394 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett as well as Tim and know A Buffett. 395 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: But it's too early to be able to predict where 396 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: he would potentially go with that, and we'll see. I 397 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: wanted to address just to put it out there. I 398 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: listened to the obviously the press conference where you were 399 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: called out. That's pretty powerful stuff. So just to put 400 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: it out there plain English, do you believe Daniel Wisnac 401 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: belongs on death row? I think in the episode where 402 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: Scott Sanders, Scott Moxley and Paul Wilson, who was actually 403 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: a victim of Scott to Cry, he lost his wife 404 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: of twenty six years at the hands of Scott to Cry, 405 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: and Scott to Cry was another client of Scott Sanders, 406 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: besides Daniel Wozniak, And I point blank said to the 407 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: defense counsel, have I ever once said that I don't 408 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: believe Daniel woznia belongs on death row? And his answer 409 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: to that was no. Now, if there was ever a 410 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: person in this story that I would potentially say that too, 411 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: it would obviously be the defense counsel too. Schmooze my 412 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: way into some kind of a trusting relationship, right, But 413 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: I don't do that. That's not how I operate. I 414 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: I believe that Daniel Wozniak is where he belongs. No 415 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: matter how many times Matt Murphy says it, I have 416 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: never once claimed otherwise. Well, I haven't heard it on 417 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: the podcast myself, but as I said, I just wanted 418 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: to come around to it one more time. I think 419 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: Daniel Wisnia believes he's where he's supposed to be. Yes, 420 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: I do. I think. I think part of that conversation 421 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: we just heard from Daniel hulk Yard was him sort 422 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: of saying, listen, leave me alone. I took the I'm 423 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: taking the responsibility for all of it. If you keep going, 424 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: other people could end up sitting in the cell next 425 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: to me. And I don't want that. I'm I'm where 426 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be and just leave it be. I 427 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: think that's not Linda. So I kind of wanted to 428 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: get into some more of the not quite as heavy questions. 429 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: This is this and again this is probably gonna be 430 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: the last one for me, and I've got a whole 431 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: bunch of questions from the listeners that I'm really excited 432 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: to get into episode seven. That was where you interviewed 433 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett's ex boyfriend who happened to be her father's 434 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: age or so something along those lines. A lightning rod 435 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: of an episode. Yes, it was. It certainly was, and 436 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: there were a lot of questions about that episode, primarily 437 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk about flirtation during that episode. 438 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: I heard it. I brought it up to you. We 439 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: were talking on Facebook. I mentioned it to you. I said, Wow, 440 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: that's interesting. How was that in studio? And your response 441 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: to me was, I gotta tell you. I was stunned 442 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: by the reaction that episode received. My partnering Crime Mike, 443 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: who is my audio engineer, and uh, he was in 444 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: the studio with me, and we left thinking, yeah, he's 445 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: a character, but what a wonderful opportunity to open a 446 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: window into a crazy world that the listeners would have 447 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: never heard before. And never once did we say to 448 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: one another, boy, he was really flirting with me or 449 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: I was really flirting with him. I'm just not someone 450 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: that even really. I mean, I know this might sound crazy, 451 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: but I don't even really know how to flirt. I 452 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: don't I've I've long passed the years in my life 453 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: of flirting, and so for me, I'm always focused on 454 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: extracting the story out of someone, extracting the truth out 455 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: of them, telling, listening to them, and and and trying 456 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: to engage them make them feel comfortable in the situation. Obviously, 457 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: there was laughter that I was also criticized for, and 458 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: I thought we tried to touch upon that at the 459 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: end of the episode by saying, the levity is is 460 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 1: what sometimes makes you feel more at ease when you're 461 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: sharing the most intimate details of a situation and a 462 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: time in your life that maybe you're not altogether proud of, 463 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: but yet you are courageous enough to come forward because 464 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: if it helps, if it helps the case, if it 465 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: helps the story, if it helps get to the truth 466 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: for the victims families, He did that for them and 467 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: and I I tried to alleviate his concerns about the 468 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: laughter by saying, know, I have spent countless hours, week 469 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: after week for years with with Steve hair, who first 470 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: and foremost is one of the funniest men I've ever met, 471 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: and I used to feel guilty about laughing, knowing why 472 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: we were together, what we were talking about, what we 473 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: were discussing, and he said, don't you ever feel guilty 474 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: about laughing, because the fact that I can make you 475 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: laugh and that we can find laughter and all this 476 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: it keeps me alive. I remember you saying something about 477 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: that it was for him, it was it was sort 478 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: of his purpose at this point, and so you know, 479 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: I apologize to any listeners that I offended. That certainly 480 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: was not my intention. And if anything, again, the point 481 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: was to allow for this person to feel at ease 482 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: and to feel that he was in a safe place 483 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: to share a very uncomfortable story. I and I in 484 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: to agree, And as I said to you before, I 485 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: think this is what you do. You're and you're good 486 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: at it. Sometimes you just kind of have to go 487 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: with the flow. And if that means it's if that 488 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: makes it sound a little bit less than quote unquote 489 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: professional or less than um serious, then so be it. 490 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: But at least you're getting information. And I will tell 491 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: you I think when I was I was listening to it, 492 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: I think the things that may be stuck out to 493 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: people was not you so much. I mean, yes, it 494 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: was laughing. But so when he he talked a lot 495 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: about he talked a lot about getting laid and he 496 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: and he made a few sexual innuendows. I think maybe 497 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: that's his sense of humor. Maybe he's like that with 498 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Um. And then at the at 499 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: the very end, he said, Oh, but you're just so 500 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: charming and funny, and I think that probably is what 501 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: And then I think you probably chuckled after that because oh, 502 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: thanks whatever. I think that's probably where people got that impression. 503 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: I think he's has a sarcastic tone to his delivery sometimes, 504 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: and I think that he was just being himself. And 505 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: I can't judge a person for being themselves. I can 506 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: only expect and certainly hope for them to just come 507 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: on and tell me the truth. That actually brings up 508 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: a good question that I have. So do you feel 509 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to point in the finger at anybody 510 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: in particular, do you feel like anybody came in here 511 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: and didn't tell you the truth or maybe stretch the truth, 512 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: or maybe it was just here because they went Wow, 513 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: it's a big podcast with over two million listeners, and 514 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: I could be famous if I'm on here. Do you 515 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: think anybody had motivations other than the whole truth, nothing 516 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: but the truth? So help me, Linda, I don't think 517 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: anybody that came on, uh said anything about the truth. 518 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: I've spent countless hours was just about everybody that came 519 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: on the podcast, and also vetted a lot of what 520 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: they said with other sources. I think that the people 521 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: that chose in the end not to come on, maybe 522 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: we're afraid that they weren't going to be able to 523 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: tell the truth. And they knew that I knew the truth. 524 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: So that's all I can say about that. As far 525 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: as the people that were on the podcast, I'm a 526 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: stickler for the details. I'll drive someone crazy with the details. 527 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll call and call again and again to 528 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: make sure that I get it right. Or if their 529 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: story changed a little bit, why why did the story 530 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: change a little bit? What was the where is where 531 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: in lies? What really happened? You know? I mean, let's 532 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: go back again and revisit this conversation about what happened 533 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: eight years ago, that sort of thing. But I do 534 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: everything to make sure that I get it right that 535 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: and so you should. And I think that's probably one 536 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: of the reasons you've been so successful with the podcast 537 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: and why you have so many regular listeners, thank myself 538 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: included obviously, so let's get to the questions that people 539 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: asked on Facebook. These are there, There's a there's a few, 540 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,719 Speaker 1: um and the first one, I think, just because Bob's 541 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: interview was recent, I kind of want to start with this. 542 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: So Blake Harrison asked on Facebook why did Tim go 543 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: to Bob's house? And when he went to Bob's house? 544 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: Did Tim know what he was getting himself into when 545 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: revealing all of this evidence to Bob. When this person 546 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: says why did Tim go to Bob's house, It's hard 547 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: for me to answer because I'm not sure the time 548 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: frame that these are referring to. I'm assuming I'm going 549 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: to go with the assumption that this person is asking 550 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: about when Tim went to Bob's house on Wednesday night 551 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: talking about the gun, and he originally went to Bob's 552 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: house on a Tuesday to share with him the debit cards, 553 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: sims debit card to say he wanted to fill it 554 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: with guests, and uh, let me involve you in my crime, right, 555 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: And then I think that Lisa Golidge, who was his 556 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time, had a lot to do with 557 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: prompting Tim two do what he had to do to 558 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: involve Bob in the revealing of of the evidence. She 559 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: knew about the creative evidence. She she was there when 560 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: it was put into Tim's car the night that they 561 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: went to Dan's apartment. She knew. She even said to 562 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: Bob Castillo, please help us so that Tim doesn't have 563 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: to pay for a crime that Dan committed. Um So 564 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: I think Tim going to Bob's the Wednesday night, the 565 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: same night actually Dan was arrested, and I'm sure he 566 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: found out Dan was arrested an hour earlier, and I'm 567 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: sure Lisa then said he's arrested. The whole house of 568 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: cards is going to come down. You have to get 569 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: in front of this. You have to involve Bob and 570 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: maybe he could help us get this gun to the police, 571 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: the proper thorities to get it out of your hands. 572 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: And I think that's basically what happened there. As far 573 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: as what was the second question, um did what did 574 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: Tim know what he was getting himself into with the 575 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: telling Bob about this evidence and to tag onto that 576 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: he also wanted to know. Do you think Tim knew 577 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: that Bob was going to roll on him as soon 578 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: as I mean he did, he rolled on him pretty quickly. 579 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: Do you think Tim knew that Bob was going to 580 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: roll on him as soon as he had that evidence 581 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: in hand, to make sure that he didn't get in trouble. Well, 582 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: Bob didn't roll on him. What happened was is the 583 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: the UH. The police ran the serial numbers on the 584 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: gun and it came back to it was Daryl waznie 585 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: X gun. And so Bob only knew what Tim was 586 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: telling him, which wasn't much. It was one side of things. 587 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: He was telling him the stories that Dan allegedly told 588 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: Tim about what had happened with that gun, about how Sam. 589 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: First he said that Sam had killed Julie with that 590 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: gun and was on the run, and then he said 591 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 1: at one point that another person was killed by Sam, 592 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 1: so that there were two people that were killed by Sam, 593 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: and so the stories kept changing. And the fact is 594 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,720 Speaker 1: is that Tim knew so much because he was there 595 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: on the friday. He was there on the Friday when 596 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: Dan came back with the first installment of money UH 597 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: to give to Chris Williams, who loaned them the two 598 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to stave off the conviction. I mean Tim 599 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,879 Speaker 1: had the conversation with Dan during the intermission Saturday night 600 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: in the nine performance when that young little boy overheard 601 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: dance part of the conversation when he said, why did 602 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: you have to break the window? When Tim did break 603 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: a window to get into that apartment, he told him 604 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: where the crate was to take the crate, the crate 605 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: that had all of the bloody clothes and the tools 606 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: that Dan used to dismember Sam's body. He told him 607 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: where Sam's keys were to go sell the car. So 608 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: Tim was involved ever since Friday of the murders, probably 609 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: even earlier, but that's what we know at this point. 610 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: So as far as how much did Tim know? Tim, 611 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: Tim was looking to extricate himself as much as he could, 612 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: but he was too involved. So I guess that I guess, 613 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: maybe to rephrase the question, then, did Tim know while 614 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: he was sharing all this information with Bob? Was it 615 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: in Tim's even consciousness that everything he was saying was 616 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,879 Speaker 1: really quickly going to be shared with the police. I 617 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: think Tim doesn't know the truth. Ever, he doesn't know 618 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: how to tell the truth. From what I understand from 619 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: his friends, Tim is just pathological, and so I think 620 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: that Tim thought he could lie his way out of 621 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: a situation. But yet somehow he did because he became 622 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: a crucial witness for the prosecution for the state, and 623 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: that is what saved him. That's they needed him so 624 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: that they could dismiss any potential mental incapacitation defense from 625 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: Daniel Wozniac. Well, he got what he wanted, I guess 626 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: for now. Next question is from blithe Tyranny Diva on Facebook. 627 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: The media referred to Rachel Buffett as an actress in 628 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: quotes they weren't exactly specific as to her level or 629 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: skill of an actress, but she took it as I'm 630 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: an actress, I'm such a good actress. If the media 631 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: had referred to Rachel Buffett as what she truly was 632 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: quote want to be actress and not simply an actress, 633 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: do you think that might have caused her to react 634 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: differently to the media. And you think that if she 635 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: thought she wasn't going to be famous from this or 636 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: infamous or whatever, would she have maybe slipped up a 637 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: little bit instead of feeling as if everyone bought her tetering, famed, 638 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: innocent performance. I think Rachel's always about Rachel And one 639 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,879 Speaker 1: of the episodes was with Audrey McVeigh, who was their 640 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: third wheel up until a week before the murders, and 641 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: when the murders took place, and when the headlines were 642 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 1: rampant all across the country, Rachel was certainly a player 643 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: in in the telling of this case. Audrey had made 644 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: a point of reaching out to Rachel and saying, can 645 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: you know what can I do for you? I feel bad? 646 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: Are you okay? Are you hanging in there? We're all 647 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: the wedding plants were able to take care of the 648 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: cancelation all that, And Rachel's response to Audrey was, why 649 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: are you calling me? Because you just want fame. You 650 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: just want you just want faming. You just want to 651 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: be somehow attached to all this with me. And that 652 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: was just horrifying to Audrey because that's the last thing 653 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: she thought about or cared. But that just goes to 654 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: show you the mentality of Rachel Buffett. So whether they 655 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: called her an actress or want to be actress, or 656 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, half an actress, I think that Rachel was 657 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: always going to look at this opportunity as her big break. 658 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the reasons I was told by 659 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: a couple of her remaining friends was that she didn't 660 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: want to take the plea deal that the prosecutor offered 661 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,320 Speaker 1: her up until a couple of weeks before her trial, 662 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: which was a offer of accept and plead guilty to 663 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: a misdemeanor and no jail and I'll expunge the misdemeanor 664 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: after a year. She wouldn't take it because her thought 665 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: process was, I'm not going to be able to have 666 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 1: a book or a movie deal if I plead guilty 667 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: to anything. But what if you're found guilty in the future. Well, 668 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: she didn't think about that part. Again, the narcissism kicks 669 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: in and you think, I'm gonna act my way out 670 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: of this, and she went for this trial. What what 671 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: boggles my mind is that she went all the way 672 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: with this right and decided to play her card with 673 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: a trial. Yet she didn't get up on the witness 674 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: stand and speak on behalf of herself. She she she 675 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: could have, and you would think that that would be 676 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: the reason why she would go to trial, but she 677 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: never did so. Christina Reynolds had a related question. Uh says, 678 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: my question would be about Rachel's accessory conviction. Since she 679 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: was convicted of the accessory charge, is it actually possible 680 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: to move forward with a murder charge with the way 681 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: of the law reads, would they have to throw away 682 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: that conviction? Just curious on the on the legality. And 683 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: that's actually a question that a lot of people have 684 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: been asking. What now, as she done? Can all the 685 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: seventh that ends that you've accumulated that's probably somewhere on 686 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: the annals of the Orange County District Attorney. Can this 687 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: all be brought up by Todd Spitzer whomever? Um So, 688 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: I guess the question is what can be done now 689 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: to Rachel now that she's been convicted of just this 690 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: seemingly small the two families of accessory after the fact. 691 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: The law is simple. You can convict someone of an 692 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: accessory charge and then you could subsequently charge them with 693 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 1: murder or accomplice if there is a new act. If 694 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: if new evidence and a new act comes forward that 695 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: you weren't that wasn't used in your original charge and 696 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: conviction of the accessory charge. If a new act comes forward, 697 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: you can be charged with murder even though you've already 698 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: been convicted of an accessory charge. So Mark Bigeinger, I 699 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: hope I didn't mess up his name, asks how much 700 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: involvement do you think Noah had? Given that the theater 701 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: is on a military base. There's a couple of questions, 702 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: given that the theaters on a military base, what federal 703 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: laws are in place, and how do they work in 704 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: relation to a civilian committee in a crime? And and 705 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: his last question was is Tim still in jail on 706 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: pro violations? So I'll do the last one. First, Tim 707 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: is out. He was out about a week ago. And 708 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: as far as the military base being federal grounds, at first, 709 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: the FBI was involved and they were there on the 710 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: scene when the when the when the body was found. 711 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,359 Speaker 1: But from what I understand from Mr Murphy, he said 712 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: that the FBI is not as effective at prosecuting murders, 713 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: so the they eventually relented and gave it to the 714 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 1: d a's office. That's what I was told by Mr Murphy. 715 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: As far as Noah's involvement, I think he certainly knew. 716 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: He certainly sounded like he knew quite a bit of 717 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: what was happening. When he visited this Spaths two days 718 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: after Dan had confessed to the murders. He was an 719 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: interesting Yeah. He went down to the Spaths with Rachel 720 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: and her two leader bottle of vodka and he shared 721 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: with John Spath how I mean John Spath was incredulous. 722 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: He couldn't believe that Dan, the man that he had 723 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: known for quite some time, because he had been dating 724 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 1: his daughter for two years and they really considered him family. 725 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean they went on family vacations together, holidays, and 726 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: so he did. He voiced to know how he found 727 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: it shocking that Dan was capable of such horrific murders 728 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: when he never saw any of those tendencies in him. 729 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: And Noah said, yeah, no, I can believe it. We 730 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: used to sit around and plan murders together, how we 731 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: would get away with it, and and uh and honestly, 732 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: I I think that the motivation was money, because he 733 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: was being evicted and I was really pressuring him. I 734 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: was like, what's going to happen, dude, I this is 735 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: at least that's in my name and my credit is 736 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: going to get destroyed. And he told John Spat that 737 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: Dan told him as long as I could get four 738 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,400 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a day, he said, will be fine. What 739 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,840 Speaker 1: a miraculous number to pull out of the air exactly 740 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: what they were doing, so, I mean, you can just 741 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 1: deduce from there. Unfortunately, that's all we'll be doing because 742 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: they just let everybody else go. It seems like, well, 743 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: the reason that the police said they didn't go further. 744 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: They did originally charge him with accessory after the fact 745 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: because in his car was underneath the driver's seat was 746 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: Noah's car. Yeah, Noah's car was an envelope with four 747 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: in it, which was the payment that they had received 748 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: that day when they went by Wesley's house to pick 749 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: up the money, and Noah was in that car. So 750 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: breaking news on Sleuth. I think that's the first time 751 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about the that is the first time I 752 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: mentioned the fo in his car. Yeah, so they arrested 753 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,279 Speaker 1: him for access way after the fact. But I asked 754 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: the Coast to Mesa police why they didn't pursue charges 755 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: against Noah, particularly after the Spats came forward and share 756 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: with them what Noah was telling them, and they said, well, 757 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: he was very helpful in convincing Rachel to take the 758 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,799 Speaker 1: stress test, the voice stress test. I said, well, what 759 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,840 Speaker 1: else is he going to say? Of course he's not 760 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: going to say don't take it. It's gonna look guilty 761 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: if he does that. So I I don't know. I 762 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: scratched my head on that one. But there was a 763 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: lot of scratching that went on in this case. So, 764 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: speaking of co conspirators allegedly, Arlene Vorhees asks, how was 765 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: any documentation in correlation with Tim's involvement kept out of 766 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: any legal discussion discovery? Why wouldn't Daniel's defense want to 767 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: bring that to light during the trial, even though Daniel 768 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,760 Speaker 1: would have adamantly fought against it. Well, that's a question 769 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,399 Speaker 1: that I have asked the Ends counseled directly, and there 770 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: are certain questions he does answer for me, and certain 771 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: he won't, and that's one he won't because he feels 772 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: that that uh is a direct correlation to his strategy. 773 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: But I can say what I feel. What my opinion is, 774 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: which has always been my opinion throughout the investigation of 775 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: this case, is that Daniel doesn't want anybody to point 776 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,240 Speaker 1: the finger and his brother. He doesn't want his brother 777 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: to have to go down for any of this. He 778 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: wants to take it all himself, which is why I 779 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 1: think he was upset with Daniel holk Yard when Daniel 780 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: Holker came on the show and talked about how he 781 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: felt Rachel's involvement is really what took them to the 782 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: dark side, and that Rachel was really the mastermind and 783 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 1: all that because Rachel and Tim spent about a week 784 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,240 Speaker 1: together after Dan was incarcerated, after he confessed to the murders. 785 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: She went to where the hotel where where Tim and 786 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 1: Lisa Goulds were staying, and they did a whole bunch 787 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: of smoking meth together, and I think that's where they 788 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 1: talked about, Okay, you go down, I go down, whatever 789 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean. And that's been something that Tim told me directly. 790 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean Tim told me a matter of fact, we 791 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: spent that week together and we decided if you go down, 792 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: I go down. I mean, what else is that? I said, 793 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: what does that mean? He goes? So I don't think 794 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: Dan wants to roll over on anybody because he just 795 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: doesn't want to feel guilty of involving them and and 796 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: having them end up where he is. In fact, I 797 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 1: was told by a source that he very specifically told 798 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: this blogger that Daniel Halkyard refers to this blogger as 799 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: a woman that has a website community she was in 800 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 1: the theater community d and she has a website that 801 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: says Daniel Wazniac is my best friend, or Daniel was 802 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: Nac my friend, something like that and uh, Allegedly, Dan 803 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,840 Speaker 1: Wasniac told her that I'm very worried with this podcast 804 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: and Linda Sawyer's investigation because I think if she keeps going, 805 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: Tim will end up in a cell right next to me. 806 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 1: So interesting that he's listening all of the information that's 807 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: come out, like what is going on, He's got to 808 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: be going nuts if he's got no matter what his um, 809 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 1: no matter what he wants to put forth, it's here right. 810 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: Obviously he also had a narrative, right, so the d 811 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,240 Speaker 1: A can have a narrative. Daniel Woznia can have a narrative. 812 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: I'm about the truth, okay, so the truth is all 813 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: that matters to me. And from what I understand, Dan 814 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: is very upset with the investigation that Sleuth has brought forth, 815 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: and and he actually directed the blogger woman to go 816 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: speak to Tim while he was incarcerated, while he was 817 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: in the county jail. Yeah, from what I understand, the 818 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: bloggers shares with Dan certain elements of the podcast that 819 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,320 Speaker 1: she believes would irritate him or upset him. He's actually 820 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,000 Speaker 1: written to me and told me that he wanted to 821 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: cooperate with me, but every time he mentions my name 822 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:36,280 Speaker 1: to her, it's like this Linda Blair peace bitting moment, 823 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: and she, for whatever reason, I guess, feels some kind 824 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: of rivalry, but I don't feel that way towards her. 825 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: In fact, I have invited her on the program. She declined, 826 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: But again, I'm all about seeking the truth. I'm never 827 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,200 Speaker 1: going to sugarcoat the truth, and that's the bottom line, 828 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 1: and I don't want to hurt anybody in that process. 829 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: That that is what my job is. And so if 830 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: Daniel hears that Mike's injuries to his father is what 831 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: exacerbated his death. I mean, he was a diabetic, he 832 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,920 Speaker 1: was a very sick man, but he wouldn't have died 833 00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,280 Speaker 1: if he didn't have those injuries. And they were injuries 834 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,799 Speaker 1: that weren't tended to write away by medical professionals. So 835 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 1: that's the truth, that's what happened, and I have to 836 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 1: I have to share that with the public because again 837 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: that's my job. So let's go back to talking to 838 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: about Tim. Chris Baker said, given the way that Tim 839 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 1: has seemed to always treat Dan, and you've been pretty 840 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,839 Speaker 1: clear in the podcast that he wasn't that he wasn't. 841 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:46,840 Speaker 1: Dan's the biggest fan um. Why is it then that, 842 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: with us all this animosity, why do you believe that 843 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,479 Speaker 1: Dance continued to cover for him? I mean, he wasn't 844 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,960 Speaker 1: he wasn't his best friend, he didn't like him, he 845 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: said bad things about him to his friends. Given all this, 846 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:06,360 Speaker 1: why still still why is he covering for him? Maryanne 847 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 1: Wisniak his mom. The mom. The mom is all he 848 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,560 Speaker 1: has left besides the blogger woman. The mom financially puts 849 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,239 Speaker 1: money in his account every month so that he can 850 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:25,880 Speaker 1: have whatever amenities at San Quentin provides, And he doesn't 851 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,160 Speaker 1: want to disappoint her anymore than he already has. I mean, 852 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 1: let's face it, this woman's been through Helen back. All 853 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: three boys have just been an absolute painful nightmare for her. 854 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, no matter what happened in that house, no 855 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 1: matter what went on, and what's the cause of it, 856 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,200 Speaker 1: we might not ever know, But how much can one 857 00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:52,800 Speaker 1: woman take? And so I think that because she only 858 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: has tim left, I think that he will do anything 859 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 1: to make sure that he's free to still be in 860 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: her life, whether or not she hears a recording of 861 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,760 Speaker 1: her eldest son talking to her middle son about when 862 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:13,000 Speaker 1: mom is dead, When will mom be dead even even 863 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: knowing that and even hearing that Tim is still all 864 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: she has because Mike has been banished and Dan's sitting 865 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: on death row. So that brings me to a good 866 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,640 Speaker 1: question follow up question from Jamie Carroll. Clearly there was 867 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: something going on in the Wallasniac family. How do all 868 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: of the boys come out as such horrible people? And 869 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: would you consider that lack of parenting or overparenting. Well, 870 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to judge Marianne Wozniak in her role 871 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,640 Speaker 1: in all of this. I can only tell the listeners 872 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:52,839 Speaker 1: what I've learned from family members, which was that Marianne 873 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: was a working mom and her mother really was the 874 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,440 Speaker 1: caregiver in the boys lives. Whenever there was a problem 875 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,200 Speaker 1: with one of the boys with someone else, it was 876 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: always the other person's fault. It was always it's not you, boys, 877 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 1: it's them, or or she'd always throw money at the problem. 878 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: Bottom line is let them get away without any consequences 879 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:23,719 Speaker 1: to their behavior. And so that and the combination of 880 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,359 Speaker 1: the control Maryanne Wosnia desperately tried to hold onto with them. 881 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that when you're at work, you're 882 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: a boss, right and you make decisions and choices, and 883 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,359 Speaker 1: people jump and listen and do what you ask of them. 884 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,680 Speaker 1: But she'd come home and didn't necessarily have that same control, 885 00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,600 Speaker 1: even though she tried. She tried to dictate with them 886 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 1: certain choices that they would make, and tried to tell 887 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: them how they needed to live their lives, tried to 888 00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:00,360 Speaker 1: control the people that they chose to date. And what 889 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:05,680 Speaker 1: happened was, in order to escape from that control, they 890 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,479 Speaker 1: started to lie. They started to lie because they wanted 891 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,480 Speaker 1: to please her and yet at the same time live 892 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,919 Speaker 1: their own life. And so the lies just became part 893 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,600 Speaker 1: of everyday living. It became part of their reality. And 894 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 1: and I think lies turn into cheating and stealing and 895 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,240 Speaker 1: and then this lifestyle of drugs, and it's all about 896 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: the control or lack of control. And they said, no 897 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,520 Speaker 1: matter how hard they tried, they just couldn't live up 898 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: to her standards. And so what do you do when 899 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,719 Speaker 1: you feel like you're less than You just say the 900 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: hell with it and you just kind of go crazy 901 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,200 Speaker 1: in your life and do whatever makes you happy at 902 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,160 Speaker 1: the moment, or escape it in some way in any way, 903 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:58,320 Speaker 1: because you're constantly aware that you're not able to please 904 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 1: this woman you're supposed to love, right, and that's supposed 905 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,439 Speaker 1: to be there for you unconditionally. But she was never 906 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: happy with anything that they did. So when it came 907 00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 1: time for them to break out and do something on 908 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,800 Speaker 1: their own. So I think that if they stayed within 909 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: her boundaries of what was acceptable Christian behavior, they would 910 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 1: try to walk that line. But they're boys, and they 911 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: wanted to go do some wild things too, and and 912 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 1: that was just scorned upon and and uh and so 913 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,320 Speaker 1: the lies began, and that began. I think the whole, 914 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,279 Speaker 1: the whole unfortunate life of crime. Wow, says a lot. 915 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:47,120 Speaker 1: It says a lot. So Becca and Mendoz asks, well, 916 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,240 Speaker 1: the Hair and Kibewishi families file a civil case against 917 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,160 Speaker 1: Rachel or Tim for their involvement. I think that's a 918 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: really good question because obviously more of the details that 919 00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 1: haven't been answered, like the bloody shoes, the sneakers that 920 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,359 Speaker 1: they pulled out of Tim's closet with grass on them, 921 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 1: the footprints in the attic, the dusted prince in Sam's 922 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,200 Speaker 1: car that were never validated, than the results were never 923 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,000 Speaker 1: found out. I think all those things would come to 924 00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 1: light in a civil case. I don't know if the 925 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 1: families can withstand going through a civil case. They've been 926 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 1: through a lot, and this has been an arduous process. 927 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: That's been many years that they've had to go to court, 928 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,200 Speaker 1: and uh so, whether or not they have the fortitude 929 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,720 Speaker 1: to go through it again, I don't know, but I 930 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,439 Speaker 1: think they'd get a lot of answers if they did. 931 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,560 Speaker 1: I think you're probably right. So Leslie Ashley had a 932 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 1: few questions. The first question is if Rachel and Dan 933 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 1: were so broke, how are they paying for their wedding, 934 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,200 Speaker 1: even the modest wedding. And I can tell you from 935 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 1: experience because I've worked in weddings, even the modest weddings 936 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: are at least a few thousand dollars. And were his 937 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:02,160 Speaker 1: parents invited to the wedding? So to answer the question 938 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: about payment, I had met Rachel's parents and one of 939 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,080 Speaker 1: the pre trial hearings, one of Rachel's pre trial hearings, 940 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: they sat in front of me and we talked at 941 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,280 Speaker 1: Lengthen one of the things that Mr Buffett wanted me 942 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,880 Speaker 1: to be clear about was that he was paying for 943 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: the wedding. That they had gone to a local restaurant 944 00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,439 Speaker 1: and they had worked out some kind of arrangement where 945 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: they were able to get some kind of a discount 946 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,680 Speaker 1: for the food, the buffet, whatever. So it was really 947 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,200 Speaker 1: just the honeymoon that Dan was supposed to be responsible for, 948 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,120 Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, so he was. He he was paying 949 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,680 Speaker 1: for that. As far as Dan's parents being invited, I 950 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,760 Speaker 1: think that they were invited, but he had come up 951 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:53,720 Speaker 1: with some kind of a phony email that he had 952 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: sent to them, because in the end, I don't think 953 00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,440 Speaker 1: he really wanted them to come. So he sent an 954 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,640 Speaker 1: email saying, you know, get back to us if you 955 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,760 Speaker 1: want to come or not, and then they answered, but 956 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: they answered an email that never went to anybody. So 957 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,120 Speaker 1: the buffets thought that they just didn't want to come 958 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,640 Speaker 1: because they didn't respect Rachel. So again, it was just 959 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: part of all of the manipulations of of Dan and 960 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:25,280 Speaker 1: all all of the lies and Deceit was Mike Wosniac 961 00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 1: ever charged for the attack on his dad. No, not 962 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,400 Speaker 1: at all, not at all. Ever reported the police because 963 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,120 Speaker 1: that's what Daniel Holacar mentioned. I think that Daniel Wozniak 964 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:41,440 Speaker 1: was upset with I did say that Marian Buffett refused 965 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: to allow Darryl to go to the emergency room because 966 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: Dan Wozniak, her son's trial was in the process of happening, 967 00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 1: so she was worried another Wisnia headline because with the 968 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,720 Speaker 1: injuries that Darryl had, there was no question that the 969 00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,800 Speaker 1: authorities would have been called by the r doctors and 970 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 1: she knew that. So he didn't have the medical tension 971 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,720 Speaker 1: he needed at the time he needed it. That was 972 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,440 Speaker 1: told to me, not only by Tim, but by Kathleen 973 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Comfort as well. And as I told you, Bob Kristilla 974 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,160 Speaker 1: in the episode twenty says, I came there the night 975 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,160 Speaker 1: he was beaten up and it was horrific. I mean 976 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: there were two black eyes, bruises all over his legs, 977 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,840 Speaker 1: blood everywhere. It was just awful. That's now, this is 978 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 1: just this is as follow up from me. That's murder, 979 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,560 Speaker 1: that's technically maybe second degree. Their still murder and there's 980 01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,040 Speaker 1: no statute on that. Do you think that could come 981 01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:41,240 Speaker 1: back after the information you've perhaps from Bob's testimony, from 982 01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,800 Speaker 1: Bob's interview, the information you Vancard, do you think that 983 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 1: could come back to Mike. I don't know if the 984 01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,600 Speaker 1: d A or the authorities want to look at anybody 985 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:56,480 Speaker 1: at this case. Other than Dan Wosney act. I hope 986 01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,080 Speaker 1: they look at everybody. I hope that they examine Rachel 987 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,800 Speaker 1: and Tim and Noah and Mike. I think I think 988 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 1: they all deserve the scrutiny of a proper vetting of 989 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:20,000 Speaker 1: new charges on these people that were involved in these crimes. 990 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,680 Speaker 1: So Leslie Ashley also asked did Scott Sanders ever have 991 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: a clue or hint to the informant scandal prior to 992 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,800 Speaker 1: the Woesniak into Chry case or was this the one 993 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,960 Speaker 1: thing that really brought the whole thing to bear. I 994 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:40,240 Speaker 1: think the combination of Scott Sanders having Daniel Wozniak as 995 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,000 Speaker 1: a client as well as Scott to Cry as a client, 996 01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 1: he was able to sort of cross reference both of 997 01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,080 Speaker 1: his files and both of his findings, and and and 998 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:57,640 Speaker 1: and through that process he found out about these informants 999 01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 1: and what was going on, and that sort of blue 1000 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,920 Speaker 1: it all up from there. But it was because he 1001 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,760 Speaker 1: had that unique perspective of having both of these clients 1002 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,800 Speaker 1: at pretty much the same time. Gene Hopkins asks what 1003 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: level of contact does Dan's mom and Tim Wilsniack maintained 1004 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,120 Speaker 1: with Dan at San Quentin? Tim never sees Dan never 1005 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,880 Speaker 1: talks to him, never sees him, didn't see him when 1006 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,880 Speaker 1: he was in County Jail. Went to see him once 1007 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:27,600 Speaker 1: with his mother when Darryll died the father um. But 1008 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,800 Speaker 1: mary Anne she sees him quite often. She goes up 1009 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:37,120 Speaker 1: for holidays. Understanding, My understanding is that Marian is pursuing 1010 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,680 Speaker 1: the purchase of a condo up there. I know that 1011 01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,080 Speaker 1: Tim told me that his eyes got a little watery 1012 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 1: when he told me that, because I said to him, well, 1013 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,000 Speaker 1: what about you, You're still here, and he said, that 1014 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:53,880 Speaker 1: doesn't matter to my mom. So yeah, so there's definitely 1015 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,720 Speaker 1: a rivalry there. There's no doubt about it. Whether or 1016 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 1: not Mary Anne can appreciate it or recognize it, I 1017 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:08,040 Speaker 1: don't know. But it seems as if her focus is 1018 01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:15,120 Speaker 1: still on Danny, not Tim, which may be the reason 1019 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,480 Speaker 1: will according to Bob, is the reason that Tim held 1020 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,960 Speaker 1: so much hostility towards Dan, and I think that's correct, 1021 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,960 Speaker 1: and I think that I think also she's she's an 1022 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:32,080 Speaker 1: elderly woman, she was an older mom. And how many 1023 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,320 Speaker 1: times can you put your son in rehab? I mean 1024 01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,080 Speaker 1: it's been countless half a dozen times, in and out, 1025 01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,560 Speaker 1: in and out. How much money can you spend, and 1026 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,360 Speaker 1: she doesn't like spending money. She has money, but she's 1027 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,360 Speaker 1: very frugal, so she is one that would rather not 1028 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,800 Speaker 1: spend money. I mean, in the case of Daniel Wasniac's defense, 1029 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean, he was represented by a public defender, A 1030 01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,960 Speaker 1: damn good public defender. I mean, honestly, he was very 1031 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:01,480 Speaker 1: fortunate in the lawyer that he had. But yeah, why not. 1032 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,480 Speaker 1: Why she's got the money? This is her baby question. 1033 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,880 Speaker 1: I thought, with all that money, you'd think top notch. 1034 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I come from New York City, so you 1035 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 1: pay for what you get as far as defense counsel 1036 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:21,360 Speaker 1: and as far as justice. And when I first came 1037 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,600 Speaker 1: into this courtroom, I actually had a friend with me 1038 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,560 Speaker 1: at the time, and that friend turned to me. And 1039 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,880 Speaker 1: this was when Matt Murphy was sitting at the you know, 1040 01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:37,520 Speaker 1: the prosecution table, and Scott Sanders was at the defense 1041 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,640 Speaker 1: table with was the exitting next to him. And Scott 1042 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,600 Speaker 1: got up for some motion and started talking, and my 1043 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,920 Speaker 1: friend turned to me and said, who's paying for him? 1044 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,440 Speaker 1: And I turned back, I said, you are, and and 1045 01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:57,680 Speaker 1: that'sender a public defender. But I guess in Orange County 1046 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,080 Speaker 1: the public defenders off is the community pays a decent 1047 01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,320 Speaker 1: amount of money for top notch lawyers, and so for 1048 01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,880 Speaker 1: people that are indigent or people that don't have the 1049 01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,560 Speaker 1: means that they have, they have good counsel that they 1050 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 1: have options for their representation. So, speaking of was next representation, 1051 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:28,440 Speaker 1: Cheryl Scotchio asked what was next defense? He obviously freely 1052 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,520 Speaker 1: admitted everything and brought the police to the body. So 1053 01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,120 Speaker 1: why did he plead not guilty? Was he given the 1054 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,400 Speaker 1: chance to plead guilty and avoid the death penalty? He 1055 01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:39,600 Speaker 1: was not given the chance. It was asked, and it 1056 01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,800 Speaker 1: was turned down by the public. The public defender asked 1057 01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:47,280 Speaker 1: for that, and the d A said no. And the 1058 01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,920 Speaker 1: fact that they went to trial was because he was 1059 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,959 Speaker 1: trying to fight the death penalty. So l Bush wants 1060 01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,640 Speaker 1: to know at what point in the story did Rachel 1061 01:05:55,680 --> 01:06:01,800 Speaker 1: and Tim stop visiting rioting expressing support Dan. Well, as 1062 01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:06,160 Speaker 1: I said, Tim really never did support Dan, and Rachel 1063 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,600 Speaker 1: stopped within a month of his incarceration. She from what 1064 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: he told Steve Hair. Steve Hare had visited Dan several 1065 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,520 Speaker 1: times while he was in County jail waiting for his trial, 1066 01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:22,120 Speaker 1: and he told Steve Hair that Rachel came one day 1067 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:27,360 Speaker 1: about a month into his time there, and walked up 1068 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,560 Speaker 1: to the glass plated window and just put her two 1069 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,520 Speaker 1: hands up in the air with and flipped him two 1070 01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,600 Speaker 1: birds and walked out and he never saw her again. 1071 01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,800 Speaker 1: And he has no idea why. Wow. Well, the next 1072 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:42,960 Speaker 1: question I was gonna ask you is does he know 1073 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,680 Speaker 1: how quickly she moved on? But I guess that sort 1074 01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:49,400 Speaker 1: of explains it. Well. I think after listening to this podcast, 1075 01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,920 Speaker 1: he knows how quickly she moved on. And also in 1076 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:58,000 Speaker 1: the trial he heard the statements about her of what 1077 01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:02,040 Speaker 1: she said to police the morning after he was arrested 1078 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,160 Speaker 1: for accessory after the fact. Remember he was arrested Wednesday 1079 01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,880 Speaker 1: night from his bachelor party, and then that early the 1080 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,840 Speaker 1: next morning, three o'clock in the morning, she was taken 1081 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,800 Speaker 1: from coast from cam to Martinique to the Coasta Mesa 1082 01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:21,400 Speaker 1: police station and it's there that she said that you know, 1083 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't the greatest lover, he didn't have a lot 1084 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,840 Speaker 1: going on downstairs, and she wasn't crazy over the top 1085 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,920 Speaker 1: about him, but that was okay. So all these things 1086 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:35,440 Speaker 1: were said in court, in open court. In fact, I 1087 01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,680 Speaker 1: can recall Steve Hair getting up in the courtroom and 1088 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,439 Speaker 1: sort of turning around to all of us and had 1089 01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,440 Speaker 1: this like chess their cat smile on his face because 1090 01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,400 Speaker 1: they were talking about the size of Dan's penis and 1091 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,760 Speaker 1: that made him happy. So but uh, yeah, I think 1092 01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,640 Speaker 1: I think Dan had a pretty good idea after that 1093 01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,080 Speaker 1: incident with her flipping him the birds, that that she 1094 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,360 Speaker 1: was done with him. M So, speaking of Steve Hair, 1095 01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,280 Speaker 1: a question I actually had that I was gonna ask earlier. 1096 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: He's upset you. You've talked a bit about him being 1097 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,040 Speaker 1: upset with you, and I just wanted to see if 1098 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:16,479 Speaker 1: you mind going telling us why and what your opinion is, 1099 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,760 Speaker 1: and do you think there's any possibility to reconcile in 1100 01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:28,000 Speaker 1: the future. I've tried. It's definitely painful. I care very 1101 01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:33,000 Speaker 1: deeply about theirs and I want what's best for them, 1102 01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,400 Speaker 1: and I reminded them that I made a promise to 1103 01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:42,439 Speaker 1: their son and I have continued to keep that promise. 1104 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:48,600 Speaker 1: And part of that is the ability to reveal the 1105 01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:53,040 Speaker 1: truth about this case. And the reason his son was 1106 01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:57,479 Speaker 1: a target was because of his background, because Sam shared 1107 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:03,800 Speaker 1: his background with them, and when I invite guests on 1108 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,400 Speaker 1: my show and I interviewed them just like you're interviewing 1109 01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:12,720 Speaker 1: me right now. I don't ever intend to censor anybody 1110 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:18,920 Speaker 1: or two delete or edit out answers that they give me, 1111 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:24,760 Speaker 1: because that's not what a journalist does. A journalist exposes 1112 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: the truth. A journalist digs deep till they get to 1113 01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,080 Speaker 1: the truth. And part of that is allowing guests to 1114 01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:35,640 Speaker 1: come on and tell their story and tell what they know. 1115 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:43,320 Speaker 1: And so when I asked Scott Sanders the question about 1116 01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,559 Speaker 1: what what did he perceive as the most egregious ruling 1117 01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,400 Speaker 1: that Judge Connelly had imposed during the case, and he 1118 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,800 Speaker 1: said the fact that he wouldn't allow Sam's passed in 1119 01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: as a killer. He used the word killer. I think 1120 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:02,479 Speaker 1: he probably regrets that word, but that's the word he used, 1121 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:04,759 Speaker 1: and that's what he said. That was his sentiment because 1122 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:10,880 Speaker 1: he felt the prosecutor opened up that door by sharing 1123 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,000 Speaker 1: with jurors how Sam was a decorated veteran and presenting 1124 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:23,920 Speaker 1: this image of Sam as as this person that should 1125 01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,120 Speaker 1: be honored and admired, which his time in the service 1126 01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:33,000 Speaker 1: should be honored and admired. Right, But because legally the 1127 01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 1: prosecutor opened up that information, he also opened up the 1128 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,840 Speaker 1: door to the defense counsel saying okay, but we should 1129 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,440 Speaker 1: know then, the whole story of Sam Hair, which included 1130 01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:49,960 Speaker 1: this past where Sam was charged with murder. So that's, 1131 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:57,479 Speaker 1: in essence, the core of why the Hairs we're upset 1132 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:07,240 Speaker 1: with me? And I find it very disturbing that the 1133 01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:12,639 Speaker 1: prosecutor in this case took advantage of that situation by 1134 01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:18,280 Speaker 1: saying that I am somehow denigrating Sam's past, that I 1135 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:23,559 Speaker 1: am denigrating Sam's memory when there's over thirty five hours 1136 01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,519 Speaker 1: of content in Sleuth, and four minutes of it was 1137 01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:33,200 Speaker 1: dedicated to that conversation. And so the thrust of my 1138 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:37,720 Speaker 1: work and what I've done here has all been in 1139 01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,120 Speaker 1: memory of Sam and Juley's so that they can rest 1140 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:46,960 Speaker 1: in peace knowing that everyone involved in their murders has 1141 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,120 Speaker 1: faced some consequences. And That's always been my intent, and 1142 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:59,960 Speaker 1: that's what I've always hoped would be the final impression 1143 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,880 Speaker 1: of my work. Wow. So the last question I think 1144 01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:08,000 Speaker 1: this is pertinent. This is Leslie Ashley. Again, a lot 1145 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,639 Speaker 1: of people from Dan's past have said some very good 1146 01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,760 Speaker 1: things about him, about who he was, their impressions and 1147 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,719 Speaker 1: so on. What do they or you think is really 1148 01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,800 Speaker 1: wrong with him? Is he just a psychopath? That say, 1149 01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,880 Speaker 1: able to charm and manipulate people. There's all kinds of 1150 01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,880 Speaker 1: reputable people defending his character. What do you think to 1151 01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,160 Speaker 1: kind of wrap this up, what do you think it 1152 01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,360 Speaker 1: is really the issue? As he just really thinks he's 1153 01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:37,720 Speaker 1: a really good actor. Do you think he was going 1154 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:39,920 Speaker 1: to get away with it or do you think there's 1155 01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:45,960 Speaker 1: really perhaps something deeply wrong that would make him do 1156 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,280 Speaker 1: what he did. Well, there's clearly something deeply wrong with him, 1157 01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,120 Speaker 1: and no, he's not a very good actor. I think 1158 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:56,639 Speaker 1: the reputable people that the listeners are referring to are 1159 01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:00,559 Speaker 1: people that have since realized they didn't really know Dan 1160 01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,679 Speaker 1: Wassniak at all. I mean, you heard Daniel Holkyard today 1161 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,880 Speaker 1: say myself and my family were pulling away here, we're done. 1162 01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,280 Speaker 1: I don't know who this person is, and maybe they 1163 01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,439 Speaker 1: never knew who this person is. In the fact, the 1164 01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,760 Speaker 1: Spaths said the same thing by the end of their episode. 1165 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:23,639 Speaker 1: We're not condoning anything he did. Uh. We we think 1166 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,439 Speaker 1: that we were duped by Dan and we never really 1167 01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:31,679 Speaker 1: knew him. So I think that, ah, the reputable people 1168 01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:37,360 Speaker 1: have far left Dan's side, and I think Dan, from 1169 01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,639 Speaker 1: a very early age learned how to live two different 1170 01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:45,680 Speaker 1: lives and and the dark one took over. It's unfortunate 1171 01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:52,880 Speaker 1: because now there's two less people walking around because of him, 1172 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,840 Speaker 1: and maybe a few more people that have yet to 1173 01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:01,640 Speaker 1: be prosecuted. You got it, Well, this has definitely been illuminating. 1174 01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,719 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear you say so. I um definitely 1175 01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,840 Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity. And you didn't hold anything back. And 1176 01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,320 Speaker 1: I'm really happy for all the questions and thankful that 1177 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,639 Speaker 1: everybody stepped up and and they were really good questions. 1178 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:18,400 Speaker 1: There were a lot, and again thank you to everybody 1179 01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 1: on Facebook and everybody to ask questions, because there was 1180 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:22,640 Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff there. I mean, I had 1181 01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:24,720 Speaker 1: a few that I've been asking you, but some of 1182 01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,360 Speaker 1: the stuff they asked, I went, wow, yeah, that's I 1183 01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,720 Speaker 1: didn't think about that. So I'm glad they were there. 1184 01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:35,479 Speaker 1: And I'm really uh pleased with the ability to be 1185 01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:37,759 Speaker 1: able to do this for the listeners because the listeners 1186 01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,920 Speaker 1: the end are so important to me because they inspire me, 1187 01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,759 Speaker 1: and they they keep me motivated to stay on course, 1188 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,559 Speaker 1: to stay on track, and and I'm so grateful for 1189 01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,800 Speaker 1: each and every one of them. So I hope that 1190 01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:55,880 Speaker 1: I have been able to address all of their questions. Uh, 1191 01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,880 Speaker 1: and I hope that they feel that they now know 1192 01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,799 Speaker 1: more than they did before. And there you go Season 1193 01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:07,720 Speaker 1: one of Sleuth. Thank you, thank you. Before I say 1194 01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,880 Speaker 1: goodbye to all of my listeners at the conclusion of 1195 01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:16,360 Speaker 1: Season one of Sleuth, I first need to explain the 1196 01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:21,400 Speaker 1: condition of my voice. We have been recording the finale 1197 01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:25,800 Speaker 1: episode now for the past two days, and at the 1198 01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:29,519 Speaker 1: end of yesterday's session, I'm sure you could hear my 1199 01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,080 Speaker 1: voice was starting to go, and this morning I pretty 1200 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:37,920 Speaker 1: much lost it. I suppose it's pretty ironic that after 1201 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:44,599 Speaker 1: over three hundred interviews and this relentless, exhaustive investigative journey 1202 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,559 Speaker 1: I've been on for three years, I was bound to 1203 01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:51,519 Speaker 1: lose my voice on the very last day. So bear 1204 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:55,200 Speaker 1: with me, because I am going to share with you 1205 01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:02,200 Speaker 1: scratchy voice and all what I know after spending time 1206 01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,600 Speaker 1: with my sorece Deep Throat. At the beginning of this episode, 1207 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,679 Speaker 1: I told you that I had been trying for weeks 1208 01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:15,320 Speaker 1: to persuade Deep Throat to come forward. I had lunches 1209 01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:21,120 Speaker 1: and dinners and phone calls and texts, and while she 1210 01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:25,599 Speaker 1: did tell me everything she knew, she was trepidacious about 1211 01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:31,640 Speaker 1: coming forward. I tried to explain to her that it 1212 01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,840 Speaker 1: would be helpful not only for the victims families, but 1213 01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,160 Speaker 1: we could go to the police, we could go to 1214 01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:41,400 Speaker 1: the New d A and share with them everything that 1215 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:46,720 Speaker 1: she knew. But she still felt that the consequences of 1216 01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:50,320 Speaker 1: her coming forward were too severe, too grave, and so 1217 01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,400 Speaker 1: I promised her, while I was going to tell the 1218 01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,920 Speaker 1: details of what she shared with me to my listeners, 1219 01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:03,640 Speaker 1: I would still maintain her anonymity and not reveal her 1220 01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,439 Speaker 1: identity unless I had her blessing. So I've decided to 1221 01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:13,799 Speaker 1: call Deep Throat on air right now for my final 1222 01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:19,120 Speaker 1: attempt to see if she will in fact come forward 1223 01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:23,000 Speaker 1: on her own and share all she knows about her 1224 01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:52,080 Speaker 1: conversation with Rachel Buffett and Rachel Buffett's role in these murders. 1225 01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:56,680 Speaker 1: All has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system 1226 01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:00,280 Speaker 1: is not available at the town. Please recall in your 1227 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:03,519 Speaker 1: message when you have finished recording. You may hang up 1228 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:09,880 Speaker 1: or press one for more options. Hi, this is Linda 1229 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,160 Speaker 1: Sawyer from Sleuth. I wanted to give you one last 1230 01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:18,439 Speaker 1: opportunity to share with the listeners everything that you shared 1231 01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:23,440 Speaker 1: with me regarding your conversations with Rachel and her confession 1232 01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,360 Speaker 1: to her role in the murders of Sam and Julie Kibuishi. 1233 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:35,760 Speaker 1: I guess no matter what was said, you know that 1234 01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:41,800 Speaker 1: you can rely on me to maintain the anonymity of 1235 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:47,160 Speaker 1: your identity. I had only wished that somehow you had 1236 01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,120 Speaker 1: found the courage to come forward, because it would mean 1237 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: so much to so many people, most importantly for the 1238 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,280 Speaker 1: memory and for the souls of Sam and Julie. Have 1239 01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:05,800 Speaker 1: a good day. I tried, ye. So there you have it, 1240 01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:11,040 Speaker 1: my last attempt at getting Deep Throat to come forward. 1241 01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,600 Speaker 1: So let me share with you everything that I know 1242 01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:20,240 Speaker 1: based on my conversations with Deep Throat. It starts with 1243 01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,599 Speaker 1: a gentleman by the name of Billy Elliott, and Billy 1244 01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:29,960 Speaker 1: Elliott was Rachel Buffett's boyfriend when they met at Medieval Times. 1245 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:37,760 Speaker 1: They started dating, and they had maintained a relationship from 1246 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:42,559 Speaker 1: medieval times all the way to not Sperry Farm, which 1247 01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:48,400 Speaker 1: is where Billy now works, and Rachel knew many of 1248 01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,280 Speaker 1: the people that worked there as well. In the cast 1249 01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:56,280 Speaker 1: Billy would often have parties at his house, cast parties, 1250 01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:01,000 Speaker 1: and it was there that Deep Throat first Rachel Buffett 1251 01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:09,160 Speaker 1: and they developed rapport and Rachel felt comfortable I suppose 1252 01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,400 Speaker 1: because she was actually one of the only women at 1253 01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:17,160 Speaker 1: these parties, and so she would pull her into a 1254 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,800 Speaker 1: room privately and and so of open up about the 1255 01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:26,920 Speaker 1: role she played in the murders of Sam Harry and 1256 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:32,480 Speaker 1: Julie Cabuishi, and she basically over time, this was several encounters, 1257 01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:38,519 Speaker 1: she confessed that she knew everything and she was in 1258 01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,120 Speaker 1: on the plan from the beginning. But she was one 1259 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,240 Speaker 1: thing that she said the Deep Throat that was really disturbing, Well, 1260 01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,080 Speaker 1: there were many things that were disturbing, but the one 1261 01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:53,000 Speaker 1: thing that really struck Deep Throat is so odd was 1262 01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:56,479 Speaker 1: that she really didn't think there was anything wrong with 1263 01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:01,000 Speaker 1: her not coming forward. Rachel just didn't understand why it 1264 01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,479 Speaker 1: was a bad thing that she didn't tell anybody about 1265 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:08,040 Speaker 1: the plan. I mean, honestly, could you believe this? I 1266 01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:14,800 Speaker 1: just it just escapes any logical, reasonable thinking. But that's 1267 01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:18,680 Speaker 1: what she told her. And she said the brothers, Tim 1268 01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:22,000 Speaker 1: Tomosniak and no A Buffett they all knew too, they 1269 01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:28,559 Speaker 1: were all involved in the planning. And Deep Throat went 1270 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:35,080 Speaker 1: a step further and told me details that Rachel told 1271 01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:40,040 Speaker 1: her about the crime scene, specific details about the crime 1272 01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:45,760 Speaker 1: scene that, in deep Throat's mind, only someone that was 1273 01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,760 Speaker 1: there for the murders could have known. I specifically asked her, 1274 01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,680 Speaker 1: do you think Rachel was there for Julie's murder? And 1275 01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:58,120 Speaker 1: she said yes, based on what Rachel told me. And 1276 01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:03,200 Speaker 1: and think back about Who's interview with Ashley Mathis, when 1277 01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,519 Speaker 1: Ashley Mathis told us the story about Rachel barging into 1278 01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,479 Speaker 1: their apartment and just heading right for the deck because 1279 01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:16,000 Speaker 1: the deck was right opposite Sam Harre's apartment, and she 1280 01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:19,240 Speaker 1: clearly wanted to see into Sam's apartment and to see 1281 01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,559 Speaker 1: who was there or what you could see from that deck, 1282 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: for fear that maybe Ashley or Haley, her roommate, could 1283 01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,960 Speaker 1: have seen Rachel there. I mean that when I told 1284 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,600 Speaker 1: the defense counsel that he he said, I wish I 1285 01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,639 Speaker 1: knew that story, because that, to me is quite damning. 1286 01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,559 Speaker 1: There's no other reason why Rachel would have done that 1287 01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 1: a day after Dan confessed to the murders. She wouldn't 1288 01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,360 Speaker 1: have done that for Dan's sake. She would have done 1289 01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,040 Speaker 1: that for her sake. We know at this point that 1290 01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:55,120 Speaker 1: Rachel pretty much makes decisions and choices based on whatever 1291 01:22:55,479 --> 01:23:00,799 Speaker 1: it is that works well for her. So it all fits, 1292 01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:05,080 Speaker 1: doesn't it. Deep Throat also told me there was another 1293 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:11,280 Speaker 1: person that Rachel also confessed this story too in the details, 1294 01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:15,720 Speaker 1: so there are two people. I guess that Rachel decided 1295 01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:21,320 Speaker 1: it was time to tell the truth. But the most 1296 01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:28,160 Speaker 1: frightening element to what I learned from my conversations with 1297 01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:35,080 Speaker 1: Deep Throat is that Rachel Buffett, Billy Elliott, and a 1298 01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:40,480 Speaker 1: host of other actors who met in Nottsbury Farms decided 1299 01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,799 Speaker 1: to venture out on their own to produce a cheap 1300 01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:50,760 Speaker 1: back galley, low budget film starring Rachel Buffett, with the 1301 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:56,000 Speaker 1: subject of the murders of Sam Hare and Julie Kibuishi. 1302 01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:01,000 Speaker 1: How they portrayed her role in all this remains to 1303 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:05,520 Speaker 1: be seen because the movie is top secret and supposedly 1304 01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:09,200 Speaker 1: Billy Elliott only has a copy to this movie. The 1305 01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:13,120 Speaker 1: making of this movie and the subject matter that's portrayed 1306 01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:22,040 Speaker 1: shows how demented this woman's mind is that she would 1307 01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:28,080 Speaker 1: choose this subject matter for a movie that she started. 1308 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:36,560 Speaker 1: After learning about this movie depiction, this sick, demented movie 1309 01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:42,040 Speaker 1: that was shot about Sam and Julie's murders, I immediately 1310 01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:45,040 Speaker 1: reached out to Lieutenant at Effort at the Costa Mesa 1311 01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:50,360 Speaker 1: Police Department and asked him if we could meet regarding 1312 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,519 Speaker 1: new information that I learned. His response was that he 1313 01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,360 Speaker 1: couldn't meet with me because the case of Sam Her 1314 01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:01,439 Speaker 1: and Julie Kabie she is essentially close posed, but that 1315 01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:05,559 Speaker 1: if I had any additional information or evidence that I 1316 01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:09,360 Speaker 1: should reach out to the Costa Mesa detective now in charge, 1317 01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:13,880 Speaker 1: which is Sergeant Scott Stafford, which I planned to do 1318 01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:20,479 Speaker 1: at the conclusion of this episode. And with that, folks, 1319 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:28,639 Speaker 1: I hope that you have been able to appreciate all 1320 01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,720 Speaker 1: the work that myself and my team at Sleuth has 1321 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:38,880 Speaker 1: put into this journey that started three years ago and 1322 01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:44,439 Speaker 1: is ending today. And I feel so honored that each 1323 01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:48,240 Speaker 1: and every one of you took the time out of 1324 01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:55,000 Speaker 1: your lives to spend time listening to Sleuth, recognizing and 1325 01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:59,240 Speaker 1: acknowledging the work, and sharing it with your friends and associates, 1326 01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,200 Speaker 1: And truly, from every chamber of my heart, I thank 1327 01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:08,720 Speaker 1: each and every one of you, because without you, we 1328 01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:13,400 Speaker 1: might not see justice. And it's because of the power 1329 01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:17,800 Speaker 1: of the people and the amalgamation of all of your 1330 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:24,799 Speaker 1: voices that can help pressure authorities and the justice system 1331 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:28,040 Speaker 1: in Orange County to do the right thing that maybe, 1332 01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,439 Speaker 1: for once we might see complete justice for Sam and Julie. 1333 01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:38,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, God, bless and have a wonderful new year. 1334 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,800 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with 1335 01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,920 Speaker 1: a friend and be sure to leave a rating or review. 1336 01:26:56,479 --> 01:27:00,000 Speaker 1: Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio, or subscribe where every 1337 01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,240 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode.