1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm editor Candice Gibson joined today as always Buy Stuff 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: writer Joshua m Clark. I am joining you, Candice, whether 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: you like it or not. Yes, we are one team 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Fourth Factory Fiction. Yeah, or Team Jaundice as you like 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: to call it. I do. That is my name for us, 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Team Jaundice, because we are not only UM partners and podcasting, 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: we're partners and writing and editing. That is true. That 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: is true. So, Candice, I know you don't know this, 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: but there's this really cool webcam. Uh it's called Alcatraz 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Live or something like that, I think. And you go 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: on and I think it's on this default setting. It's 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: just showing San Francisco, but you can turn the camera 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: whichever way you want and one of the selections is 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Alcatraz and basically you can just sit there and watch 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: Alcatraz in real time. There's not a happening. That's that's 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: really the one the one thing. I mean, every once 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: in a while you might see like a tour boat 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: go by or something like that. Not the hotbed of 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: activity today that it once was, but it once was 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: a pretty cool place. Right. Have you ever seen Escape 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: from Alcatraz? No? But I have seen so I married 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: an axe murderer. And there's a scene in which Mike 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: Meyers and Anthony Lapallia go to Alcatraz on the tour 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever been? I've never been. I've never been. 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: Now I hear good things though, I hear it's kind 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: of cool. You're good things about a former federal peditentiary 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: about a tour of the yes, right, yeah, No, not 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: too many good things about Alcatraz, um, although there have 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: been some cool movies made. Murder in the first Escape 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: from Alcatraz, Like I said, Birdman of Alcatraz, that is 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: a great movie, very heartening. And I was actually surprised 34 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: to see an actual picture of Robert Strap the Birdman 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: of Alcatraz, because I thought he looked exactly like Burt 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Lancaster in the movie. Apparently not, but clearly the best, 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: the best Alcatraz movie ever was Escaped from Alcatraz, starring 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: Mr Clint east Twin you haven't seen it, so he 39 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: plays this guy. And here's my question. This is this 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: is what the question is based on. So listen carefully Okay, 41 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: he plays this guy named Frank Morris who is supposedly 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: an inmate, uh and Alcatraz and like the early sixties 43 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: or something like that, and along with two brothers, Clarence 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: and John Anglin, he Um basically digs his way out 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: of Alcatraz with a spoon and makes off into this 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: horribly chilly, shark infested bay um on a life raft 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: made of raincoats. So my question is this just like Hollywood? 48 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: WHOI or is that fact? Is that fiction? Answer? It's 49 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: actually fact. So this really did happen, like escape from Alcatraz? 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Really happy? Yeah, it really happened. Okay, how how does 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: one make a rink or how a life raft out 52 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: of raincoat? Now that I can't tell you. I'm now 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 1: Martha's steward of of great prison escape accouterments, But I'm 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: sure you could probably find a how to somewhere on 55 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: the lab. It's a good thing. Um Alcatraz, Like you said, 56 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: I just want to fill everybody in this in case 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: you haven't been watching the webcam. Alcatraz is this incredibly 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: isolated place. It's essentially a mountaintop. It's all rock. There 59 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,559 Speaker 1: are barely any plans that will grow there. It's incredibly isolated, 60 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: and like you said, the water around it is so 61 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: so cold. I think on a good day it might 62 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: be sixty degrees fahrenheit. And there are great whites that 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: are constantly patrolling the water. So anyone perfect. Oh, it 64 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: is definitely And it's been reinforced, or it had been 65 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: reinforced a couple of times. It was first built. I 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: know this, I know this. You're ready. So the Alcatraz, 67 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: the island was actually first officially surveyed in eighteen forty 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: seven and they realized, hey, you could really protect San 69 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: Francisco from this location, right, So it became an outpost 70 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: during the Civil War and uh that it was basically 71 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: meant to stave off any Confederate invasion, which never came. 72 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: And actually the guns on Alcatraz were fired a few times, 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: but it was always a case of mistaken identity. But 74 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: the thing is you had the citadel, this outpost, um 75 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: and Alcatraz evolved into a prison almost um. Naturally, people 76 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: started putting, you know, war deserters and things in the 77 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: basement of the citadel, and over time more and more 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: people were being kept there, and then finally the the 79 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: the army I think was the one who who ran 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: it said wait, we're not really you know, in the 81 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: business of running prisons. Jaeger Hoover, who was running the 82 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: FBI at the time, said, well, I am, and I'm 83 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: actually looking for a perfect place to become like this 84 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: horrible hole that the symbol of what happens to you 85 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: if you're a gangster crook in America, because I'm going 86 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: to catch you. And thus Alcatraz is porn. Nineteen thirty four. Uh, 87 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: it opened its doors for the first time, accepting its 88 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: first prisoners and began it's um. It's declined into its 89 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: image ofty. Yes, and you know it's funny because even 90 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: though it it declined into notoriety, it was incredibly high 91 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: tech as far as US prisons went. It was especially 92 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: for Yeah, I was top of the line. And when 93 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: it was a military prison, I had iron bars. But 94 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four they replaced it all with steel and 95 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: everything was reinforced with concrete, and it was serious business. 96 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: And it actually cost more to replace all the bars 97 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: with steel than it did to build a prison from scratch. Yeah. 98 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: For in the nineteen twelve version, right, yeah, because I 99 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: actually did make it a military prison. I forgot to 100 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: mention this in nineteen twelve, but then it went It 101 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: went down after a few years to how did it 102 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: go down? They just left it alone. Oh, even like 103 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: it fell to ruin. It was decommissioned as another way 104 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: to put it, and it was revived. It had its 105 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: renaissance under under Hoover. There you go. And there were 106 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: a lot of famous prisoners who trapes in an ad 107 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: and the cells were pretty lonely places to be, but 108 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: they weren't too bad. And that was a strange thing 109 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: about Acatraz is that even though we may have this 110 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: Hollywood perception of it as a very scary place, it 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: wasn't too different from other prisons. It was fairly clean, 112 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: well capped, and the prisoners, you know, they had their 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: individual cells with a bed and a toilet, and they 114 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: were riding five ft wide by nine ft deep. I 115 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: was saying, they're trying to imagine that today. That is 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: almost precisely the dimensions of a couple of our cupicles 117 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: put together. Yeah, it really doesn't sound that terrible. They 118 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: even had shelves for their personal effects. Yeah, yeah, which 119 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: is strange because you wouldn't think of, you know, prisoners 120 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: in Alcatraz having personal effects. I was wondering that too, 121 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: but I guess people sent them things. Yeah, you know 122 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: thought the first time. The first warden actually, as I understand, 123 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: didn't allow speaking like the the prisoners couldn't speak, including 124 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: during meals, and like that kind of rigid strictness, the 125 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: argument goes um, actually made Alcatraz a safer place for 126 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: prisoners than most other prisoners. And they're most other prisons 127 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: in the country. You you weren't very likely to get shipped. 128 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: You know, you can't even talk, so how can you 129 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: offend somebody? And if you can't offend somebody, you're not 130 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: gonna end up with a sharpened toothbrush in your stomach. 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: And you're right about that. James Johnston was the name 132 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: of the first warden, and he ran a really really 133 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: tight ship. And eventually the prisoners all figured out, well, 134 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: anyone who talks gets sent to confinement, but if we 135 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: all talk, they can't send us anywhere because there's too 136 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: many of us. So they all started talking at once, 137 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: really really loud, that no one could do a darned thing, 138 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: and thus ended the day long silence. Essentially, just be awful. 139 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: I think you and I would both go out of 140 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: our mind and saying if we couldn't talk, especially you. 141 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't say that. But it was funny 142 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: about these prisoners too, is that they weren't all gangsters. 143 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: There were some who, you know, had committed smaller crimes, 144 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, sort of a Jean Valjean stealing a lift 145 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: of bread thing, and they were all lumped in there together, 146 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: so somewhere a little bit more gentlemanly and the um. 147 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: When the silence was lifted, I think that the prisoners 148 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: became a little bit more cooperative and easier to manage, 149 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, like any other prison. They had their library time, 150 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: their exercise time there, you know, lending a helping hand time, 151 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: and Alcatraz itself it was almost like its own little 152 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: community because it was an isolated island. The wardens and 153 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: their families lived there. Yeah, yeah, I heard this. Just 154 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: really weird. You would you live on Alcatraz with your 155 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: kids because there were kids on the island because they 156 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: had a policy that children weren't allowed to have toy guns, 157 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: so to protect those toy guns ending up in the 158 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: hands of a prisoner who could use it to bluff 159 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: his way out of the prison rightly, and the kids 160 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: it was a very strange lifestyle for them because they 161 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: had to get boted over to the mainland for school. 162 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, I mean, we have 163 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: jokes today about you know, kids getting picked up and 164 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: ratty looking cars and staff outside of their elementary schools. 165 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: What if you were the kid who came over from 166 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: the Alcatraz boat. I just I feel really sorry for them. Yes, 167 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: so apparently life on Alcatraz sucked for everybody. It did. 168 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: But to answer your question, which I realized, yeah, I 169 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: was out taking a very round about way circuitus indeed. Um. 170 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: But to answer your question, which you asked me about 171 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: five minutes ago, I know, did brothers really escaped using 172 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: nothing but spoons, cardboard and rain coats? Fact, yes, this 173 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: is in the Annals of Murky and Mysterious Alcatraz History. Uh. 174 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: Clarence and John England and their friend Frank Morris essentially 175 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: had a very long and grueling plan during which they 176 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: used parents to ship away it rotted concrete around these 177 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: vents in their cells, and they used painted cardboard to 178 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: mimic the appearance of the vents as they were, so 179 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: that it would look as though no damage had been 180 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: done to the infrastructure of their cells. And then once 181 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: the holes got big enough, Um, this is all very 182 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Shawshank redemption. You know, they had they hit it with 183 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: painted cardboard instead of a big poster Hayworth, but the 184 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: principle was the same. At that point they could crawl 185 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: into the hole and then there was a tunnel through 186 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: which they they worked their way in and they used 187 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: this as sort of their workshop for constructing this raft 188 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: and life vests out of the raincoat material. Don't ask 189 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: me how it stayed a float, especially if they were 190 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: shark infested waters. But supposedly they made it out and 191 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: no one ever recovered anybody's They did find a plastic 192 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: bag floating around with some of their effects on it. 193 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: But supposedly they made off and there was a ship 194 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: waiting for them and they escaped. So they were never found, 195 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: not one of them, never found, no complete break from Alcatraz. 196 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: So this is one of those cases where Hollywood it 197 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: is actually pretty accurate. Huh. There you have it, And 198 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm really really proud of that Shallshan predemption analogy, because 199 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: as you guys know, I never see any movies but 200 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: that one. That one I did. Yeah, good going. Thanks. 201 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: So I actually have one more fun fact about acatre. 202 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: You may be wondering, how did the England Brothers and 203 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: their friend Frank Morrish make off without the guards noticing. Answer. 204 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: They made paper mache heads and put them in their 205 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: beds and cover them up with sheets, so it looked 206 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: like they were actually people sleeping, and they weren't discovered 207 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: until they've made it off. That's the same thing that 208 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: happened in the movie. Ar't ientertaining life with lots of 209 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: versa militude? Yes, well, everyone's looking not at You can 210 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: also check out our site how stuff works dot com 211 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: for the article how Alcatraz work. For more on this 212 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works 213 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Let us know what you think. 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