Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome back to I Choose Me. We are going to
Speaker 1: jump back into my conversation with Julie Ben's. We ended
Speaker 1: up connecting on something that so many people face, whether
Speaker 1: or not to have children and what happens if things
Speaker 1: don't go as planned. I love sitting down with people
Speaker 1: and finding the parallels in our lives. Because my husband Dave,
Speaker 1: and I tried to have kids as well. It didn't work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did the IVF yep. Did you try IVF?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And how long did you try it? Because I was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't do it for very long because I couldn't
Speaker 1: handle it.
Speaker 3: We did a handful of rounds. I mean when we
Speaker 3: got married, I was forty, So when I got divorced
Speaker 3: at thirty four, I knew possibly I was walking away
Speaker 3: from my fertility. But I had tried in my late
Speaker 3: twenties to get pregnant with my ex husband and it
Speaker 3: didn't happen then, so I kind of knew that. I
Speaker 3: started accepting the fact that it might not happen for me.
Speaker 3: And I remember, like my both my obg y N
Speaker 3: and my therapist at the time they wanted me to
Speaker 3: freeze eggs, and they also wanted me to freeze embryos.
Speaker 3: And I went through that whole process, and I went
Speaker 3: through the whole like donor sperm questionnaire, like hair color,
Speaker 3: eye color, he wait, like all the all the questions.
Speaker 3: And I told my therapist, I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: I keep looking for the box that says with the
Speaker 3: man who loves me, and there's no box to check
Speaker 3: when it comes to a donor sperm, right, And so
Speaker 3: I made the choice that I was going to see
Speaker 3: what life would bring and not freeze embryos or freeze eggs.
Speaker 3: And I thought, you know, because I was like, I
Speaker 3: don't I don't want to do it on my own.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 3: Just being a mom on my own. Just wasn't it
Speaker 3: just wasn't something I wanted to do alone.
Speaker 2: So I took that risk.
Speaker 3: And then once we got married, we started trying, and
Speaker 3: we did a handful of rounds and we made a
Speaker 3: couple embryos, and then we did the genetic testing and
Speaker 3: they all came back back and basically I remember the
Speaker 3: doctor called and was like, you know, you probably all
Speaker 3: always had old eggs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love this conversation.
Speaker 2: Right, And I remember this so vividly.
Speaker 3: I I was really I was crying, and I went
Speaker 3: and I was living in West Hollywood at the time,
Speaker 3: and I went and walked my dogs and I got
Speaker 3: paparazzied walking my dogs, and I'm bowling, but I start
Speaker 3: smiling because it's you know, I don't want the paparazzi
Speaker 3: to catch me crying. And I'm like smiling and waving,
Speaker 3: and then like, I remember that photo ran in some
Speaker 3: tabloids saying, you know, you know Dexter star Julie Ben's
Speaker 3: outwalking her dogs.
Speaker 1: Doesn't she look great?
Speaker 3: And I was like, he only knew what I was
Speaker 3: going through in that moment. But you know, for me,
Speaker 3: we explored other options. And then by that point, I mean,
Speaker 3: I was forty four and I really did some soul
Speaker 3: searching and was like, first of all, I always thought
Speaker 3: I'd be the hot young mom.
Speaker 2: In second, I don't want to be sixty with a teenager.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So you think if Rich my husband and I, if
Speaker 3: we were in our thirties, we would have explored other options,
Speaker 3: egg donor Saragi, adoption, all of that.
Speaker 2: But I think I had.
Speaker 3: To be really real about where I was in my
Speaker 3: life and say, like, I mean, having a baby is great,
Speaker 3: but they turn into teenagers eventually, and I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's sixty that's for me. I don't know if
Speaker 3: i'd be a good mom at sixty. I'm gonna be tired. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so how old is your husband?
Speaker 2: He's a year younger, that year younger.
Speaker 1: And you said he was never married before, so he
Speaker 1: didn't have kids, no coming in Okay.
Speaker 3: He's an identical twin and he has two nephews. And
Speaker 3: then he has another brother that has a niece and
Speaker 3: a nephew and we're very close to them. And then
Speaker 3: my best friend has four kids that were the godparents
Speaker 3: of so we have a lot of children in our life, right,
Speaker 3: So we decided to pivot then and just be like,
Speaker 3: let's be let's be the best aunt and uncle and
Speaker 3: let's do that.
Speaker 1: I love that though. It's admirable that you sat down
Speaker 1: and really waited out, because it sounds like like naturally
Speaker 1: you wanted to be a mom. You're one of the
Speaker 1: people that was like, yeah, sure, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: a family, I'm gonna be a mom someday. And then
Speaker 1: as your life rolls out, for one reason or another
Speaker 1: it doesn't go as you thought it would. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know, just hearing you say that, you know that
Speaker 1: paparazzi experience where you were going through something so painful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you had to fake like you were happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It was so surprising, was the photo. Like you could
Speaker 3: see like tears coming down my face, but nobody ever
Speaker 3: said anything.
Speaker 2: I was like, you're a good actress, fake it till
Speaker 2: you're feel it.
Speaker 1: I mean, but a lot of women, you know, struggle
Speaker 1: with the same thing, and that decision to change gears
Speaker 1: can leave them feeling somehow empty, somehow unuseful, or some
Speaker 1: way of like feeling bad about themselves.
Speaker 3: It was I mean, I would say for the first
Speaker 3: year after, it was really tough. And I didn't share
Speaker 3: it publicly because I'm just not that like, I just
Speaker 3: didn't feel comfortable sharing it publicly. And I remember we
Speaker 3: would be at dinner with people like friends, like work,
Speaker 3: colleagues of my husband's and their wives, and their wives
Speaker 3: would be like, oh, you gonna have kids, and I'd
Speaker 3: be like no, and they'd be like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: you have you have to have children, like you have
Speaker 3: to Oh my gosh, the best and they go into
Speaker 3: this whole thing, and I started getting to this point
Speaker 3: where I would just be like, I can't have children,
Speaker 3: and my husband would be like, why.
Speaker 2: Are you so mean about it?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, because I don't want to have the conversation,
Speaker 3: Like I don't want to have to have the conversation
Speaker 3: with people that I don't know very well, and it's
Speaker 3: the only way I know how to shut them up.
Speaker 2: Really, it was just me like I can't have kids,
Speaker 2: and they'd be.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, next subject, let's talk about something else. Huh.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I know. For me, I had was blessed
Speaker 1: with my three daughters in my first marriage or second marriage. Sorry,
Speaker 1: now let's get technical. And then with Dave, I felt
Speaker 1: like I really wanted to have a child for him
Speaker 1: and I felt like he was such a great dad,
Speaker 1: and we tried and tried, and then it didn't work,
Speaker 1: and I had that period of time where I was like,
Speaker 1: it's me, My eggs are old. Yeah. We went so
Speaker 1: far as to have his sperm checked and he like
Speaker 1: got the top of the highest rating you can get
Speaker 1: and he was like oh yeah, and I was oh
Speaker 1: my god, and I was like, Hi, I'm over here
Speaker 1: with old eggs. Thinks that feels great. But that whole
Speaker 1: period of time of just like letting that sink in
Speaker 1: and finding your way around the shame or the disappointment
Speaker 1: and the morning honestly, the grief.
Speaker 3: It was the There was definitely a lot of grief
Speaker 3: and a lot of mourning. And then I made a
Speaker 3: very superficial deal with myself, very vain, superficial deal. Tell me,
Speaker 3: I said, well, if I'm not going to have kids,
Speaker 3: then I'm going to be the sixty year old with washboard.
Speaker 1: Apps and Hi, I've seen your apps.
Speaker 3: And that's when I really I started working out a
Speaker 3: lot because I was like, all right, I can't have kids,
Speaker 3: then I'm going to have a killer body. And sometimes
Speaker 3: you just have to make whatever that superficial deal is
Speaker 3: with yourself, and god, it just sounds I mean, it
Speaker 3: sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: But it helped me. It doesn't sound terrible.
Speaker 3: It helped me focus on something else and it helped.
Speaker 3: And it also helped that my best friend had four
Speaker 3: kids and that's a lot of kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were like, maybe this is such a
Speaker 1: this is a good thing.
Speaker 2: Outa Yeah, like I can help you.
Speaker 1: Out, Yeah, and you have this freedom and this like
Speaker 1: sort of care free ability with your husband. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's some things. Once I settled into the fact, I
Speaker 1: was like, we're going to just have so much fun
Speaker 1: together and it's not gonna because it does. The kids
Speaker 1: bring stress in and there's so much responsibility and it's
Speaker 1: just so layered when you have a family and you're young,
Speaker 1: you're raising them.
Speaker 3: I also don't know how anyone survived the pandemic with
Speaker 3: kids at home.
Speaker 2: I really don't.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was tough just the two of us
Speaker 3: that I couldn't even imagine having children and navigating it.
Speaker 2: So, you know, I was a little relief.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, luckily mine we're a little older. But
Speaker 1: I did sit and think, ooh, how is this screwing
Speaker 1: them up socially and you know with their development? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was doing a number on everybody. So I love
Speaker 1: that your relationship is thriving, Thank you, and everybody would
Speaker 1: want to know the secret to that success. And it
Speaker 1: sounds like it's kind of you guys allowing each other
Speaker 1: to be independent. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's just we allow each other to be
Speaker 3: who we are, right, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 3: we support each other through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love each other.
Speaker 3: And we I mean, we did do therapy early on
Speaker 3: to help with our communication, and I had to learn
Speaker 3: that there's a tone in my voice that if I
Speaker 3: hit it, he can't hear me right, and it's more
Speaker 3: destructive than helpful. So now when I get upset, I
Speaker 3: write it down and I hand it to him, but
Speaker 3: I write it in funny ways, like sometimes I'll do
Speaker 3: tiny little post it notes, like one word on each
Speaker 3: little thing and put it up all in the wall,
Speaker 3: and then they make him read it out loud, or
Speaker 3: I'll send him an email, or you know, I'll do
Speaker 3: something and then he has to read it out loud
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: Just to let you know that he's really understanding when
Speaker 1: you're hearing me. So that is an interesting hack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for those of us that struggle with communications, confrontation, and marriages,
Speaker 1: that's a great idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it works really well. I might try it, especially
Speaker 3: the post it notes. That always makes him laugh when
Speaker 3: he sees like a bunch of posts and.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, you.
Speaker 2: Need something better than the text message.
Speaker 1: You know what. They don't like those, they don't like
Speaker 1: those text messages. I want to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about your work, because I was a huge fan. As
Speaker 1: I mentioned of Dexter, your character Rita, thank you, you
Speaker 1: were so good. Thank you and you did more makeup
Speaker 1: right or you were very.
Speaker 3: Season one no makeup at all? Right, it was amazing.
Speaker 3: I remember it was freeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at this beautiful natural woman.
Speaker 3: It was no hair, no makeup, and it was like,
Speaker 3: for the first time I got to experience what it
Speaker 3: was like to be a guy on set.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like my call time was rehearsal.
Speaker 1: Oh no more two hours earlier.
Speaker 2: It was amazing. Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 3: Season one, Rita was my favorite and the I just
Speaker 3: loved her so much. And of course then she had
Speaker 3: to grow and change, and then they had to have
Speaker 3: hair and makeup calls and.
Speaker 1: Oh man, well that subject matter was dense, tough, heavy, yeah,
Speaker 1: really scary and just like your character alone had her
Speaker 1: all her own stuff. Yes, but then she's married to
Speaker 1: a serial killer, which she never knew, she never knew,
Speaker 1: so that did you ever? You know, we are all
Speaker 1: part of the characters we play, I think as actress
Speaker 1: as it comes from somewhere inside of us. And did
Speaker 1: you ever take her home? Did you ever have trouble
Speaker 1: leaving work and keeping work at work? That was kind
Speaker 1: of energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So when I was playing Rita, I you know, during
Speaker 3: the months we would film, I was definitely more emotional
Speaker 3: in life, Like I would be crying over like a
Speaker 3: coffee commercial or something like that.
Speaker 2: Things would hit me more deeply than normal. But I think.
Speaker 3: So season one, I was still married to my ex
Speaker 3: husband and that's when I was making the decision to
Speaker 3: get divorced. And so I think in a weird way,
Speaker 3: Rita helped me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what way do you think?
Speaker 3: First of all, having a bit of job security stability. Second,
Speaker 3: I think she was so damaged and beaten down that
Speaker 3: and you know, my ex husband was not abusive at all,
Speaker 3: like that is not But I really could relate to her.
Speaker 3: Feeling that that apology after every sentence they like I'm
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, you know that I don't know. That really
Speaker 3: resonated with me, and I was like, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be that, you know. So I
Speaker 3: think in some ways she gave me the strength to
Speaker 3: really look at my life and be like I have
Speaker 3: you know, I need to move I need to get out,
Speaker 3: I need to move on.
Speaker 1: I can see how she would motivate that because what
Speaker 1: she endured, you know. The character was so strong, yeah,
Speaker 1: but so weak at the same time, so vulnerable and
Speaker 1: or like a raw nerve. So it makes perfect sense
Speaker 1: how you would go home feeling like you could cry
Speaker 1: at any commercial. It makes such sense. But that's a
Speaker 1: really must have been a really interesting time in your life.
Speaker 3: It was, and I really loved playing her, like I
Speaker 3: really and I loved working with Michael. Just being on
Speaker 3: the show was It was amazing because coming off of
Speaker 3: the WB for Buffy and Angel, which even though we
Speaker 3: were doing incredible work over there, most of Hollywood wasn't
Speaker 3: really looking at it or recognizing right it was considered
Speaker 3: a teen show. So I felt like Rita was my
Speaker 3: time to finally be a woman, yeah, and be a grown.
Speaker 1: Up and work on good material, yeah, like really good writing.
Speaker 3: And I thought it was so funny because I remember
Speaker 3: during season one, everybody was I was getting applauded for
Speaker 3: going on camera with no makeup on, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I mean, I run around my house like this, like.
Speaker 2: It isn't this a very old deal.
Speaker 1: I'm not a completely wipe.
Speaker 2: I was like, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 3: I mean, but people like everyone's like it's so amazing,
Speaker 3: And I was like, so amazing because I don't have
Speaker 3: to go in two hours earlier.
Speaker 1: I know, they killed Rita very upsetting. What season was
Speaker 1: it four? Season four and four and you said that
Speaker 1: you wished you had advocated for her more, Yes, what
Speaker 1: would you have said?
Speaker 3: So my opinion is season one and two I had
Speaker 3: very strong story arcs, and then one of our writers
Speaker 3: left and he was the one who really captured the
Speaker 3: voice of Dexter and Rita. And then in season three
Speaker 3: and especially in season four, I mean, I just the
Speaker 3: storyline was just not there. But that's the nature of
Speaker 3: episodic television. Like some years you have a great storyline
Speaker 3: and then some years you have to take a backseat
Speaker 3: while other actors get.
Speaker 2: Their great storyline.
Speaker 3: And I just wish I had advocated more for her.
Speaker 3: I wish I had stood up more and you know,
Speaker 3: challenge them to come up with more creative things to
Speaker 3: do with her rather than just accept, well, this is
Speaker 3: the nature of the beast. And I had a great
Speaker 3: season one. In season two, there were other actors on
Speaker 3: the show who didn't like their season one in season
Speaker 3: two who all of a sudden now were being elevated
Speaker 3: during season three, so.
Speaker 2: It was like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: So I was like, but maybe I should have challenged
Speaker 3: the writers more and said, hey, guys, this is kind
Speaker 3: of silly, like can I do something like can we
Speaker 3: come up with something a little more interesting?
Speaker 1: So did you not feel like it was your place
Speaker 1: to do that or did you not feel comfortable?
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1: You didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, I watched other actors during season one and season
Speaker 3: two do the same thing, like speak up, advocate for
Speaker 3: their characters, and they weren't deemed difficult, but I just was.
Speaker 3: I just didn't want to be difficult.
Speaker 1: Where do you think that comes from?
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean obviously being the youngest child in the family,
Speaker 3: I think, and just being the good girl.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've learned since then that there's a way of
Speaker 3: doing it. I mean I watched when I worked on
Speaker 3: Desperate Housewives. After I was doing a scene with Marsha
Speaker 3: Cross and I was a huge fan of the show,
Speaker 3: so I knew the characters inside and out, and we
Speaker 3: were rehearsing this scene and Marsha's like, this doesn't make
Speaker 3: any sense, and I was just I mean, I was
Speaker 3: just recurring on the show, so I was just sitting
Speaker 3: there and she was talking to the director and she's like,
Speaker 3: this doesn't make any sense for my character, and she
Speaker 3: was going through the reasons why, and then she turned
Speaker 3: to me and she's like, what do you think? And
Speaker 3: I'm like, you are one hundred percent correct. It makes
Speaker 3: the scene makes no sense for your character. And I
Speaker 3: went through it because I'd been such a huge fan,
Speaker 3: and I watched them. They went off and then they
Speaker 3: shut down set for like an hour and they rewrote
Speaker 3: it and they called us down to the writer's room
Speaker 3: and they read it to us and it was so
Speaker 3: much better, and it just made it made her storyline
Speaker 3: so much fuller and richer. And I watched how she
Speaker 3: did that. It wasn't she didn't raise her voice. It
Speaker 3: didn't come from a place of anger or frustration. She
Speaker 3: just really was like, this just doesn't make sense. And
Speaker 3: they heard her and they changed the script. It was incredible,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, that's how you do because
Speaker 3: I always thought speaking up.
Speaker 2: Would be confrontational.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've seen it all different ways in my career,
Speaker 1: but you're absolutely right. It's just better when you are
Speaker 1: calm and you know what you're talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense. It makes sense, and it's a collaboration.
Speaker 1: It's not like you suck.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I've shown up in all different ways since
Speaker 1: I told the writers off a few times in my past.
Speaker 1: But now it's just so much easier to work together,
Speaker 1: right and hopefully you have that team right.
Speaker 3: And I wish I had had that experience before Dexter. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, because I'm Buffy and Angel. The writing was
Speaker 3: incredible and we just said the words right like there
Speaker 3: wasn't especially my character was amazing, Like I never I
Speaker 3: never had a moment that felt false as the carecharacter,
Speaker 3: so you didn't have to say yeah, so I didn't
Speaker 3: really know how.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's and so moving forward in your career, have
Speaker 1: you sort of been able to utilize that in your
Speaker 1: current work, your recent work? Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean when I was on Defiance, I remember season one,
Speaker 3: my character was the hero of the piece, she was
Speaker 3: the mayor, she was the hero she was, and I
Speaker 3: really wanted them to you know, I really kept asking
Speaker 3: like what's her achilles heel? Like what is it? What's
Speaker 3: her deep dark secret? And they're like, but you're the hero.
Speaker 3: There's no deep dark secret. You're the hero. So I
Speaker 3: remember being on set during the pilot and the prop
Speaker 3: guy we're in my character's office and he brings me
Speaker 3: a coffee mug and I look at him and I'm like,
Speaker 3: how about every time I in here, no matter what
Speaker 3: time of day it is, it's a glass of scotch.
Speaker 2: Don't bring me coffee, Bring me scotch.
Speaker 3: And I created an alcohol problem for wasn't written and
Speaker 3: in season two they leaned into it, but it was
Speaker 3: me going, I want to give her something. I want
Speaker 3: to give her, Like what does she do at night? Yeah,
Speaker 3: when the world is falling apart and it's all on
Speaker 3: her shoulders to make the decisions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because being a hero is hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard. So she drank.
Speaker 1: That's genius though. You made your own storyline. Yeah, with
Speaker 1: one simple prop change. Yeah, I love that. I just
Speaker 1: want to ask you about maybe some advice for women
Speaker 1: our age, you know, who are are dealing with the
Speaker 1: same things that we're dealing with and the life changes
Speaker 1: and all the things. Yeah, what is what is the
Speaker 1: piece of advice that you could pass down, pass on
Speaker 1: some sort of you know, I believe in you message
Speaker 1: that you're so good at giving.
Speaker 3: Well, I believe in you. I think there's a couple things. First,
Speaker 3: protect your bone density.
Speaker 2: First and foremost.
Speaker 1: By jumping.
Speaker 3: You can do it by jumping, you can do it
Speaker 3: by walking with a weighted vest. Ye. Do everything you
Speaker 3: can to protect your bone density, because that's the most
Speaker 3: important thing as we get older, especially as women. And
Speaker 3: then I think it's so important to have your alone time,
Speaker 3: like the world can get really big and crazy, and
Speaker 3: to have that quiet time for yourself and whether it's
Speaker 3: meditation or journaling or working out or yeah, or going
Speaker 3: for a walk or being out nature, just making sure
Speaker 3: you you have those moments to breathe and recenter yourself.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't really realize it's how important that is
Speaker 1: until you do it. Yeah, and then you feel this
Speaker 1: sense of like, why haven't I done this sooner?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And there's all types of like breath work apps. There's
Speaker 3: I like to do box breathing, me too, really into
Speaker 3: the box breathing.
Speaker 1: What's your count? Wow?
Speaker 2: You know I'm good at four.
Speaker 3: I try to do seven and then I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna die.
Speaker 1: So do you do four?
Speaker 3: In hold for four and then out for four, out
Speaker 3: for four and hold for four and then in for four.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I try to push it to seven, but that holding
Speaker 3: it for seven is like, wait, there's.
Speaker 1: Something so magical about If you know what box breathing is,
Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy this. If you don't, you're what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? But I breathe in for four, hold
Speaker 1: for four, and then breathe out for eight, and there's
Speaker 1: something so magical in that last four count of that
Speaker 1: eight out breath.
Speaker 2: I'm going to try that.
Speaker 1: You go into another space and time. I'm gonna try that,
Speaker 1: and it feels scary at first, but it's like it's
Speaker 1: like a drug almost.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So all here for the box breathing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just think it's so important that you you check
Speaker 3: in with yourself yep.
Speaker 1: And that's great advice.
Speaker 3: And if that means you're gonna cry, then cry let
Speaker 3: it out, let it out, let it out.
Speaker 2: I'm big on that. Feel your feelings, feel your feelings.
Speaker 1: Yep. That's such great advice, great advice.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I love getting to know you. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I'll make you dinner, okay,