1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Charles Chuck Bryant, and Jerry Jerome Roland. 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: So it's stuff you should know. Yeah, Jerry wore her 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: Swan Bill corset today. Yes, she looks like a freak 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: of nature. I'm nervous about this one. It's gonna go 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: ahead and say that, don't be really, Yeah, I'm nervous. Well, 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: here I am to relax. You chuck me, pat your beard, 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: give you a little nap. That didn't help making things worse. Yeah, 10 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: this one, I don't know. I mean the history and 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: stuff is interesting, which I assume we'll talk to you first, 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: since we don't plan this stuff out. But um, you know, 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: we're all with a live and let live thing. And 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: I certainly have no problem with a lady or a 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: dude that wants to wear a corset or anybody. Okay, 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: what's wrong? But when I started reading about the the 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: uh the Guinness Book lady and I went to her 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: website and watch the YouTube, it just kind of freaked 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: me out a little bit. Cathy Young, Yeah, yeah, and 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: we'll talk about her later, but it kind of crossed 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: the line to me to like weird obsessions with physical appearance. 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: But then I think about, like, I'm not going to 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: condemn anyone forgetting all the kinds of weird plastic surgery either, 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: if that's your thing. I think that I just want 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: people to be happy, you know, right, But I think 26 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: the um extreme lacing is one thing. It's called also 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: um well extreme lacing, I think is the general preferred term, 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: right um tight lacing. Yeah, it's a perfect example of 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: you're harming nobody. This is strictly your body. It's yours 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: to do what you want with it, have at it. Yeah, 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: but what if it's in the like because men say 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: that's the only way a woman will be attractive, and like, 33 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: what's different it's just been in footbinding. That to me 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: is sad and and it's a that's part of a 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: larger issue, you know what I mean, Like if you're 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: doing it because you know you want to catch a 37 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: man's attention or something like that, who knows, we're not 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: pop psychologists, and it just all this makes me nervous. 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: I did. Actually I had a conversation with um Holly 40 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: from miss in History stuff. You miss in history class. 41 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: She's probably one of course it in her time. Yes, yes, 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: and she actually defends course it's too because I thought, well, 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: it's like the the Western equivalent of footbody. She said, no, no, no, 44 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: my friend. Uh, it lacks in reality and actuality, a 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: lot of the um, a lot of the sexism associated 46 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: with footbindinging. That makes me feel a little bit better. 47 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: And that course it's in in reality and truth. In 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century and before, we're um very much chosen 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: to be worn by women for their own tastes, sometimes 50 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: at the out of spy or not out of spite, 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: but um, contrary to what the with the men in 52 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: their life might want or desire. Okay, okay, so it's 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: actually it's not necessarily a feminist article of clothing, although 54 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: Madonna certainly made a case for that, so did Vivian Westwood. Um, 55 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: but it's it's not as bad as you're thinking. I 56 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: think I do feel better now, do you? Yeah? Good. 57 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: I just don't want to, you know, I don't want 58 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: to make people feel bad. I want people to feel 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: good always. I want everyone to feel good. That's my problem. Yeah, 60 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and we should say, if you're wearing a courser right now, 61 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: and it feels bad. Everything I've seen in my research 62 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: says you need to loosen that thing because it's not 63 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 1: supposed to hurt. Well yeah, and um even Cathy Young, 64 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: who um again we will talk about. But she's againness 65 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: record holder because she formed her waists into the size 66 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: of a jar mayonnaise. Um. Literally, oh yeah, gallant size mayonnaise. 67 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: It said the thing I had said, an average jar, 68 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: But I don't think that's correct unless those photos on 69 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: her site though look photo shopped. Okay, but she said that. 70 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: All the advice she gave was you go slow. Don't like, 71 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you want to train your waists to 72 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: be smaller, which you can do, um, don't you know, 73 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: dive in and just start, you know, doing the extreme 74 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: lacing right away. No, there's into it. There's something called 75 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: um waste training, and that's kind of a uh it's 76 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: not necessarily the ultimate goal of corseting, which can be 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: a verb, but it is um a kind of a 78 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: parallels subculture of the corseting culture, and waist training is 79 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: simply where you are basically through the use of corsets 80 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: and pretty tight course. It's over a period of time, 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: usually about a decade. You are reshaping your body mechanically, right, 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: you're not actually losing weight. Although a tight fitting corset 83 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: acts something like a gastric bypass surgery without the surgery 84 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: because you just can't put as much stuff in your 85 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: stomach is normal UM. But the waste training itself, it's 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: just it's a reshaping. It's not actually making you lose weight. 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: So what it's doing is taking uh inches out of 88 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: the middle and sliding them down to the hips and 89 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: all of this the whole point for course, it's from 90 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: the beginning of course, it's to um. The world record 91 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: holding course at waste is to um amplify existing female 92 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: UM body features. Yes, that's the point, that's right. The 93 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: word uh comes from an old French word c o 94 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: r s, meaning body and UM. Here's the history, which 95 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: oddly came three quarters the way through this article. UH. 96 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: If you go back in time and the way Back 97 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: machine to the days of ancient crete, there were women 98 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: who well I think he and before crete, there were 99 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: women who tied ropes around their waist to make their 100 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: waistline look slimmer acentuate maybe the bust and the rear end. Uh. 101 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: So they were doing that a long time ago and 102 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: then an ancient create. Um people think that they are historians, 103 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: think through the first women that actually wore something that 104 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: you could call a corset. It was a garment that 105 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: shaped the body more than three thousand years ago, right 106 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: it um It covered the I think the waist and 107 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: the hips and um crete and women went around um 108 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: bare breasted, so they would have their breasts like saying, hey, everybody, 109 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: how's it going? And then below that was the corset okay, 110 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: And I would imagine um that it probably enhanced the 111 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: breasts as well. Uh yeah, sure, if you're sent and 112 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: everything up like that probably probably acted sort of like 113 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: a pre brazier support and lift. See them so uncomfortable 114 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: a man. We did one on female puberty that was easier. 115 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, well that was science. This is I see, 116 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: I see, you make a valid point. Uh So if 117 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: you go forward a bit to the Middle Ages, they 118 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: um for the first time, these undergarments came out in 119 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: something called the heavy stay, and it was very much 120 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: an outerwear, but it kind of accomplished the same goal. 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: But it was you know, very decorative and and pretty um. 122 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: But that I don't think that lasted too long. They 123 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: went back under the garment in the eighteenth century, right, 124 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,119 Speaker 1: and then um, up until the eighteenth century, most things 125 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: that were part of the Corset family tree or predecessors 126 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of course it's were conical. Um no, they were tubular, 127 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: totally tubular. And then once we hit I think about 128 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, what we start to see today as 129 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: of course it began to emerge where that's conical, it's 130 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: cone shaped, right, um. And from from I guess, yeah, 131 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: the eighteen century on, of course, it's were like a 132 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: pretty pretty much a mainstay of fashion, if not the 133 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: basic ingredient of women's fashion from about the end of 134 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: the sevres until World War One. Basically, yeah, it wasn't 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: like some weird thing like today. Um. I mean they're 136 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: still in fashion today, and if you know in certain 137 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: um like cosplay and costumes in the fetish world and 138 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: burlesque and stuff like that, or just you know, just 139 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: playing sexy time. Sure, regular old sexy time. But um, 140 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: the stuff I read said it was it was no 141 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: like more of a strange thing than like a woman 142 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: to wear a bra today, right exactly, it's just a 143 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: regular fashion accessory. Yeah. And as we'll see, it was 144 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: like kind of essential depending on the clos you're wearing, 145 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: depending on the period. Yeah, that's true. Um, there was 146 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: a a real movement. And when I was saying like 147 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: some men were saying like, you shouldn't be wearing corsets, 148 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: and women said, t s for you, Pal, I'm still 149 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: wearing a corset. There was actually a big movement that 150 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: was UM that came out of uh I guess the 151 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, late nineteenth century, that was spearheaded by two brothers, 152 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: Ira and Lucian Warner Um. And they came up with 153 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: an alternative too. They actually were anti corset crusaders. They 154 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: were both doctors, and they Um basically said you can't 155 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: beat them, join them, but let's try to create a 156 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: corset that's less problematic for women. And the idea that 157 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: corsets were problematic for women can actually be traced back 158 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: to a sevente medical article by a guy named Dr 159 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: Samuel Thomas von Sommering, and Um von Sommering basically made 160 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: up a lot of the myths about corsets that we 161 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: know today, that they can cause scoliosis, that they can 162 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: mess up your liver, that they can lead to permanent 163 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: deformation of your body and your internal or inns. Uh. 164 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: It all kind of came from this and a hundred 165 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: years after Von Summering wrote his article, UM, the Warner 166 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: Brothers got in and said, we're gonna come up with 167 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: a health health courset. Yeah, but they definitely can change. Um. 168 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: There's something called uh viscer optosis or Glennard's disease, which 169 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: if you do the tight lacing long term, you're your 170 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: organs can actually sink and shift away from where they 171 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: should be. Right. So, I mean that's that's something that 172 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: can happen that there is a really good point, man, 173 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: we should delineate here. Wearing a corset normally, even when 174 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: you're doing waste training, should not result in that. There 175 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: is a definite line where if you are getting into 176 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: extreme corseting, then yes, all sorts of medical problems can happen. Um. 177 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: But just about every corseting site out there on the 178 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: Internet will warn you about going past that line. And 179 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: in fact, there was a really there's a good um 180 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: site by Orchard Corsets. They sell corsets. They have a 181 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: really extensive site. You know, there's stuff about corsets. They 182 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: actually say one of the ways that the body can 183 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: be deformed. Is if you're an adolescent girl wearing a corset, Um, 184 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: your ribs can develop improperly because you're wearing the course. 185 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: As they say, girls under eighteen shouldn't wear corsets. Uh. 186 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: So then along came this guy, um. And we should 187 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: mention too that when these two the two uh Warner 188 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: brothers within the United States. Yeah, they were out of Bridgeport, Connecticut. 189 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: I was gonna say Wigner, but maybe a generation or 190 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: two before probably so. Um they also changed around the 191 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: same time at least Um. I think we have not 192 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: mentioned yet that Uh, one of the you know, the 193 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: the course it has to and we'll get into all 194 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: the parts of the corset, but one of the things 195 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: that keeps it rigid and stiff and the old days 196 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: was baleen whale um. And it was actually it was 197 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: a teeth, right even though called a whalebone. And they 198 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: would use this to, you know, to make the corsets 199 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: stiff in in place, keep everything where it should be. 200 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: But around that time, in the late eighteen hundreds, is 201 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: they were overhunted, became really expensive, so they said, all right, 202 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: forget the whale teeth, let's put in steel in which 203 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure that was quite comfortable, right. Well, yeah, but 204 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: and I mean women were wearing these like every day. Yeah. 205 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: But I mean one of the as we'll see when 206 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: we talk about manufacturing, course it's the UM. One of 207 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: the points is to make it as comfortable as possible, 208 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: this very uncomfortable contraption. Yea, but yeah, they started to 209 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: use steel, and even today you'll find steel in corsets 210 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: that are meant to for like waste training or something 211 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: like that. Uh. And then, like I teased a moment ago, 212 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: along came this guy named Charles Dana Gibson. He's a 213 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: he was a graphic artist in the Victorian times, and 214 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: he became very famous, and a lot of artists that 215 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: came after him emulated his style. But he became very 216 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: famous in the eighteen nineties for creating what was known 217 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: as the Gibson Girl. So what he did was he 218 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: he drew all these pictures of this, uh, these ladies 219 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: who were I mean some say it was like the 220 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: first ideal of of UM American attractiveness for for women, 221 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: and it was they wore these swan bill corsets, which 222 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: made I mean these were even more extreme. They would 223 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: make you kind of stick the bust out and stick 224 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: your your rear end back. And if you just look 225 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: up Gibson girl. I mean, you've seen these drawings before. 226 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: It's like America's first cheesecake drawings. I don't know what 227 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: a cheesecake drawing is. It's like a Gibson girl, okay? 228 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: Or a Vargus girl is another a little more modern one. Well, 229 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: supposedly his American boy. You see them cheesecake girls, apparently 230 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: as his wife and her sisters were his inspiration. And 231 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: um m is it the sister it's weird. Yeah, they 232 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,239 Speaker 1: said they were all pretty okay, and he was celebrating. 233 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: He said that this was not a woman, but it 234 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: was a thousand women, is his quote. Got um. And 235 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: supposedly the Gibson cocktail is named after him, but I'm 236 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: not sure if that's true. Oh that's great, good for him. 237 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: M gut him. Pickle onions? Yeah, put in Martini, call 238 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: it after me. So what happened? He was actually um 239 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: working from a corset that was invented by a doctor 240 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: ines ghosh, so terrible Um who created this course at 241 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: the straight front, also called the swan Bill corset and 242 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: the whole problem with it was, and Charles Dana Gibson 243 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: is criticized for popularizing this because it's so bad for you, Like, 244 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: there's no question that the swan bill corset is really 245 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: bad for your posture because the thing that it forces 246 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: your spine into is just totally unnatural. And apparently that 247 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: trend only last for about a decade during the Awardian 248 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: period of first century of the just ten years, and 249 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: then pretty much right after that, not right after pretty 250 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: close of course, it's suddenly just went away because World 251 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: War One had such a sweeping change on the world. 252 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: It just it just it was. It created social upheaval. 253 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: And one of the things that um came out of 254 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: this was women said, you know what we're done. Of 255 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: course it's I'm a flapper now I need to do 256 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: the Charleston, can't do the Charleston and of courset um 257 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and the whole fashion was just different looking, you know 258 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: it was, and the idealized body was different too. So 259 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: prior to that and throughout basically history, the Venus body type, 260 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: which is you know them, the fertile women curves type, 261 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: was replaced by the Diana type, which is the more 262 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: athletic type that's now has been in fashion basically ever 263 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: since World War One. That basically kill the corset. But 264 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: the modern bra and slip and all of that stuff 265 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: came out of that the death of the corset, because 266 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: they were like, we still need something, we still want 267 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: to course it anymore. Okay. I think one of the 268 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: reasons all this made me uncomfortable is just all the 269 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: categorizations over the years, like this is the ideal women 270 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: and she's called a Diana, and this is what they 271 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: should look like. Yeah, that's mean that to me is 272 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: like a whole other podcast, you know. I mean, like 273 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: because plenty of women buy into that, and there they 274 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: don't feel bad about themselves for buying into it. They say, oh, yeah, 275 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: this is what I find attractive to uh So. Anyway, 276 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: during this time in the Roaring twenties, there were the 277 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: corsetiers that were just like, oh no, well, how about 278 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: this kind that you can still wear and it's not 279 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: like the other course that you can actually dance on them, 280 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: and you know, it's sunk and it. It basically stayed 281 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: that way for the rest of the twentieth century. There 282 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: was a brief resurgence. Christian Dior brought it back in 283 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: the forties, um, and it was kind of akin to that, uh, 284 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: that Swan Bill corset. Yeah. Uh. And then it went 285 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: out pretty quickly. And then in two Vivian Westwood had 286 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: a show called Buffalo Girls, her collection for two eighty three, 287 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: and it brought corsets out. Vivian west Wood, she's a 288 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: famous designer, kind of punk fashion, um, and she brought 289 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: courses out from underneath the clothing and made it like 290 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: basically into a shirt. It was Outerwhere now was that 291 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: when Madonna got on the train? That was about six 292 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: years later, And that was Jean Paul Gautier that designed 293 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: that very famous corset with the conical bra that would 294 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: take your eye clean out. Yeah. What was the what's 295 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: the video? I don't remember. I can sing the song 296 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: in my head, sing it. No, you know the one Vogue? 297 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: It was okay, that was a Vogue video, right, I think? So, okay, 298 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: Well we'll find out if it's not. Um, But that 299 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: was Jean Paul Gautier. And uh. From that point on 300 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: the course that has basically stuck a down, sometimes a 301 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: little a little more predominantly, sometimes a little more in 302 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: the background, but it's basically been a fashion accessory that 303 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: you could conceivably wear out in public in the West 304 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: ever since. Yeah, I mean it sticks around these days, 305 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: like you see costumes and stuff like that. But um, 306 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: and then occasionally, I guess if you're in a swinging nightclub, 307 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: you might see a lady in a corset or maybe 308 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: a man. Yeah, we'll talk about that after this. How 309 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: about that? So chuck your teased men wearing corsets? Literally, Uh, 310 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: I never tease a man for wearing anything except those 311 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: dolphin running shorts. Those are great to get back in 312 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: your time machine. I saw The Boy in the Bubble 313 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: for the first time. Have you ever seen that movie 314 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: here at Trivolta. Yeah, I never saw it, and I 315 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: watched the riff Trecks version of it. Well that's the 316 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: only way to pervde it a lot better. Yeah, where 317 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: did that come from? Oh? I think he's wearing dolphins 318 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: shorts on one of the scenes, and I was like, 319 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: dolphins shorts. So, um, yeah, what we're talking about men 320 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: wearing him? Yeah, So apparently this article makes it seem 321 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: like it was fairly normal. But from what I saw 322 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century and there, from what I saw 323 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century was that if you were wearing 324 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: a corset, and you were a man, you were probably 325 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 1: suspected as being gay. And so here's where this kind 326 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: of patriarchal view. Of course, it's does definitely hold fast. Um, 327 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: if you were if you were like a straight establishment 328 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: type male, Um, you probably did not cotton two men 329 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: wearing corsets and didn't want to associate with any guy 330 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: wearing corses because you didn't trust him he was probably gay. 331 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: But if you were in favor of your wife wearing 332 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: a corset, she'd better be wearing a corset or else 333 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: she wouldn't be viewed as a proper woman in normal, 334 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: polite society. So it's it's not fair to say like 335 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: that myth about the corset being a part of the 336 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: patriarchy is not true. It is true in some ways, 337 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: but not It's not like women were forced to wear 338 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: corsets throughout history. They donned it in particular on purpose. 339 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why women wore corsets was 340 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: because it also served as a basically the thing that 341 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: held up all of their really heavy clothes. Yeah, like 342 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: you couldn't you couldn't just slip into one of those 343 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: dresses in Victorian times. No, Um, it had a certain 344 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: shape that required a certain uh form to put it on, 345 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: and you know that course it would help your body 346 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: like morph into that form basically, you know, it was 347 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: a low there was a load bearing structure that you 348 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: wore under her clothes, a load bearing beam. So I 349 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: don't think we've really described the how these things were 350 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: kind of came you know, how they came together. There's 351 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: some people out there are like, what is a corset? Well, geez, 352 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: do we not even say that? And not in so 353 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: many words? All right, Well, it's a garment and it's 354 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: usually pretty short, uh, and it's like a it's like 355 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: a belt, like a a not a wide belt, but 356 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: a towel, a tall belt. It's like a vest that 357 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: doesn't go over your shoulders. Yeah, but some of them 358 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: could go over your shoulders. Well that was the health coursets. 359 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: I think that did that, all right. Um, they lace 360 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: up in the back. We mentioned the whale own, which 361 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: was actually the teeth of the baleen as these reads, 362 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: and they were put in what we're called boning channels, 363 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: which were just a little sheaths basically where they would 364 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: slip these things down in and um, it's like you know, 365 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: if you've ever had to wear a back brace or something, 366 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: it's very much like that. And like Andy Warhol had 367 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: to wear one of these after he got shot by 368 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: Valerie Salon. Yeah, for the rest of his life, who 369 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: went on to write the Scum Manifesto. You ever read that? Yeah? 370 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: I thought she wrote it before she shot him, Now 371 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: did she? We should do one on that whole scene, Yeah, 372 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: we should. All right, we'll get that, uh. And then 373 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: they were made out of this um cotton fabric, fabric 374 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: called kutial c o U t I l um and 375 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: it's still used today. In course it's because it um 376 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: doesn't stretch, has very high thread count, keeps all those 377 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: boning channels and rib or I guess bones in place. 378 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: And you you have to understand, like this whole thing, 379 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: this whole mechanism that is the corset, is basically defying 380 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: physics at any given point in time. So you have 381 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: to have some really strong stuff involved in the manufacture 382 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,959 Speaker 1: of it. So what else you got? You got on 383 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: on the front part where it meets you have a 384 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: busk Yeah, and um that's actually needs to be pretty 385 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: strong as well, right, So usually that's um wood or 386 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: metal maybe bone originally, and it was two flat pieces 387 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: that um that basically went up and down alongside a scene. 388 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: And most people are I don't want to say most people. 389 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: I for a very long time thought that you put 390 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: the corset on and then laced it up, and that 391 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: you put it on and then laced up the back, right, 392 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: you put it around your stuff like that. It's actually 393 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: not the case. You, um, you were doing it all wrong. 394 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: I had it all wrong. When you put on the corset, um, 395 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: you've already got it laced and you're putting the front together. 396 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: You're putting it around yourself and then fastening the front 397 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: at the buss. Yeah, but then you tighten the lacens 398 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: like you don't lace it tight and try to put 399 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: it on exactly. You just have it kind of pre 400 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: lace like your shoes. And the lacing kind of confused 401 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: me to Actually we'll get into that. Well. First of all, 402 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: we need to finish the front. There was a flattened 403 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: part on the stomach. A lot of times it was 404 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: decorative called the stomacher. Yeah. It was very lovely designs 405 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: and embroidery and stuff, and that had the added benefit 406 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: if you were trying to adjust your shape of keeping 407 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: your stomach flat. That's right, just person all it. So, uh, 408 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: what else? Are there any other components to the corset 409 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: that we haven't mentioned? I don't think so. Um, just 410 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: the the the lacing. Okay, so we'll talk lacing now 411 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: then you're ready. Yeah. So, traditionally in the in the 412 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: Western Europe, the the method of lacing was we're basically 413 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: like you would lace the shoe. Okay, it's called bidirectional lacing, 414 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: where you just alternate from one hole of the other diagonally. Right. Um, 415 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: that's typically what you think of when you see of course, 416 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: it's probably what you're seeing is bidirectional lacing. If you 417 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: look at Italian paintings from the medieval era, you're probably 418 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: gonna see what's called ladder lacing. It's all right angles, right, 419 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: so you go from one hole down and then over 420 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: and then maybe up and then down again, then over, 421 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: then down and then over, and it forms a ladder. 422 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: The name is pretty appropriate for that one. And I wonder, 423 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: was this just to make it look different? I would 424 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: guess that had something to do with it, But I 425 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: would also imagine that it had to do with you know, 426 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: if somebody was like this actually, this doesn't loosen during 427 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: the day very much. Because I also saw with the 428 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: bi directional what you would create in the not at 429 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: the bottom at the top, it's sort of in the 430 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: middle of where it laces these bunny ears. And that 431 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: was for women because a lot of times in the 432 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: movies you've seen like the you know, the like down 433 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: and be like the the lady holding the bed post 434 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: and then her valet or I guess where the females 435 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: called valets was valley girl. The lady who helps them 436 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: dress would be like, you know, cinching this thing down 437 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: so tight, and they'd be like, breathe in, you know, 438 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: sucking your breath. But these bunny ears allowed women to 439 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: that didn't have a personal dresser to tighten it themselves. Yeah, 440 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and apparently that was fairly normal. Um for women wearing courses. 441 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: They usually put them on themselves more often than not. 442 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: And those those bunny ears were just two loops of 443 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: lacing at about the thinnest part, the narrowest part where 444 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: you had some slack, and then when you put your 445 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: corset on, you wrap it around you. You um fasten 446 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: the busk the little the buttons on the bus the 447 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: front and then you just pull back tighten it done right. 448 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: And this is again ideally after you have visited your 449 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: uh course a tear because apparently, like buying a braw, 450 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: guys don't know this stuff. It's apparently tough to get 451 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: one that like fits just right, and so you need 452 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: to get like professionally fitted and um, like the off 453 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: the shelf thing doesn't work for a lot of ladies, right, 454 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: And that was the case for of course it's for 455 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: a very long time. You had to go to a 456 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: corsetier to to be fitted for one, um and it 457 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: was expensive from what I understand right, Um, today there 458 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: I guess because of mass manufacturing, UM, it's a lot 459 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: easier to make coursets that are fairly close to what 460 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: a large number of people would use. But the fit 461 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: is still extraordinarily important. And apparently from what I well, 462 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: I should say, from what orchard course, it says, um, 463 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: women tend to miss uh or to underestimate the length 464 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: that they need, so that leads to a lot of 465 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: discomfort there of course it's too short for their body. 466 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: So I mean, I don't mean to buzz market or anything, 467 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: but just based on my research orchery, of course, it's 468 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: if you're getting into corsetting, there might be a pretty 469 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: decent place to start. Wow, you might get a little 470 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: treat in the mail. Uh, let's take another break and 471 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about Cathy Young and 472 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: some of the myths about corsetting. So I think we 473 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: didn't mention after corsetting went out of fashion. Uh, girdles 474 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: came along, like everything has kind of been replaced by 475 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: something else that does something similar, you know, and like 476 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: men these days have those. Uh. It was like, I 477 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: guess spanks for men almost like these tummy tummy shirts 478 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: the dudes can wear Marino that suck everything in and uh, 479 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: and it's all fools gold because what lies beneath is 480 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: still there, right, I guess if you're trying to impress 481 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: people who will never see you without your shirt on, 482 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: go nuts. Um. But Cathy Young, we mentioned a few 483 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: times she is a Guinness record holder and she started 484 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: waste training at the age of forty eight. Yeah, it 485 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: seems a little late to get into it. Yeah, I 486 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: thought so too, But she got into a big time. 487 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: And you were saying earlier. I think at the beginning 488 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: of the episode that you this is not something that 489 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: happens overnight. If you're doing waste training, it can usually 490 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: take it seems to me, about a decade before you 491 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: get the results you're looking for, which is a waste 492 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: that the average five year old could put two fingers around. Well. 493 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,239 Speaker 1: She said that her goal was never to earn an 494 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: award and Aguinness called her uh And she holds that 495 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: record now at fifteen inches thirty eight point one centimeters, 496 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: So that's for living on a living person. There's actually 497 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: a woman who holds the record for the narrowest waist ever, 498 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: narrowest corpse thirteen inches. Who was she? Her name, my 499 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: friend was as follows Ethel Granger. Thirty three centimeters thirteen 500 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: inches in nineteen thirty nine was what her waist was 501 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: measured at. And she obviously trained her waist yeah over 502 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: again about the course of a decade. So did you 503 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: go to Cathy Young's website? Did you see the YouTube's? No? 504 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: I think that's where I got a little freaked out 505 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 1: because on her website she has like a she has 506 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: an f a Q section and people were writing in 507 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of people were just like, you know, 508 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: I think you look great, and you know, give me 509 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,479 Speaker 1: some tips here and there, and that was all well 510 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: and good, but then there was one where this husband 511 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: was like, I'm waist training my wife and just hearing 512 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: that made it sound like a dog bowl. Yeah, it 513 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: made it seem like something that he was making her 514 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 1: do right, which may not been the case. It may 515 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: have been the wording, but it just freaked me out. 516 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: And he says, right now, I've got her up to 517 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: eighteen hours a day, but I'm really looking looking forward 518 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: to seven, and can you give me some tips on 519 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: how we can accomplish this because she does seven except 520 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: for when she showers. Cathy Young does okay, always in 521 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: a courset right, and you know, she gave tips and everything, 522 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: and like I said, it, just the way this guy 523 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: was talking, it just seemed a little creepy. Yeah, no, 524 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: that is creepy. Sounds like a huge jerk who needs 525 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: to be set straight. Probably get his butt kicked by 526 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: a larger dude. Right, But it also chuck. You may 527 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: also be witnessing, um a B DSM couple coming up 528 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: for tips or whatever. That's just the reality. And if 529 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: the if they're both equally into it, and the into 530 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: that like dynamic, neither one is psychologically suffering or physically 531 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: suffering from it, then hey, but it could also probably 532 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: even more likely be just the guy's a jerk. That 533 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: was my instinct, but you never know. And the other thing, 534 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: if you go to YouTube, there's parts Cathy Young, parts 535 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: one through six, and they are five minute videos of 536 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: her in different lingeries standing in front of a white 537 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: backdrop while her picture was being taken and her husband. 538 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: She's silent the whole time and just kind of turning 539 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: around and stuff, and her husband is just sort of 540 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: very calmly talking about it and describing her waist and 541 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: what she did and the techniques used. And he's an 542 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: orthopedic surgeon, so there's a chilliness to it, and it's 543 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: just creepy man on the subject. Like go watch one 544 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: of those videos and yeah, that's exactly how it sounds. 545 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: And you just hear the photograph going to keep and 546 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: that's the only other thing you hear. It's got like 547 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: a houseplant. It was just all just weird. But then again, 548 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: she feels great about herself and that's what she wanted 549 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: to do. I'm not saying he forced her, because there 550 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: were rumors because she was he was an orthopedic surgeon 551 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: that she he had removed some of her ribs, which 552 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: is one of the big myths of supposed myths um 553 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 1: of back in the day. Uh. And I believe it 554 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: was a myth because they said back then like surgery 555 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: was very dangerous. You would have to be one of 556 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: the um one of the least risk averse people on 557 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: the planet to undergo elective surgery to removed in the 558 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, you know. So that's by all accounts, very 559 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: much a myth. Yes, same with Marilyn Manson, I think too. 560 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: Oh sure, I remember hearing that one. Uh. But she 561 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: said that you know, no, my husband didn't remove any 562 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: of my ribs and it's all natural, and um, you know, 563 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: she's into it, she's very proud of it. So I 564 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: don't want to It's the same thing with with corseting 565 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: in general. I think like just to assume that men 566 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: made women do that really takes a tremendous amount of 567 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: agency away from women, you know, like they're just completely 568 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: vapid shells that are bost around by their husbands regardless, 569 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: you know. Sure, so you want busts a couple more myths. 570 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: That's what we do. We're known as myth busters. So 571 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: one of the things that I saw. It's hilarious. In 572 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: this article, um, it says that there's the myth of 573 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: the Victorian waif who fainted at the drop of a 574 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: hat because of a lack of oxygen from wearing a corset. 575 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: And at the bottom of this paragraph the author says, no, no, no, 576 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 1: it wasn't that. It was malnutrition and not being able 577 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: to breathe very well because of the Yeah. Uh that 578 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: are there any other myths? Yep, that's it. Those are 579 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: all the myth Now, there's plenty of other ones. There's 580 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: actually a pretty cool article on Collectors Weekly written by 581 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: Lisa Hicks about um corset myths. Uh. And again you 582 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: should probably if you're getting into this kind of thing, 583 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: go check out UM well a bunch of sites, but 584 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: also check out Orchard Course. It's again I have no 585 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: financial stake in them whatsoever, but check it out. Uh. 586 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: And it's as I said, go to orchard Orchard of 587 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: course its dot com slash josh um. Since I said 588 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: Orchard course, it's it's time for a listener mail. I'm 589 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: gonna call this. Thank god that episode is over. Hey, guys, 590 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: it just finished episode on pain scales, and I find 591 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: it fascinating when humans try to put an objective score 592 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: on something very subjective. I'm not sure if he came 593 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: across this info and your research, but I thought you'd 594 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: be interested to know that we use pain scales and 595 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: veterinary medicine as well. It's even more challenging because obviously 596 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: our dogs and cats can't tell us verbally and certainly 597 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: can't draw happier sad faces. And that's the saddest thing 598 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: of all. Um our assessment is based completely on behavioral 599 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: behavioral cues and body language. For instance, I'm sure everyone 600 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: but know a happy, pain free puppy. Uh you saw 601 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: one sitting square looking you in the eye, ears perked up, 602 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: wagging his tail. Because dogs are very stoic, higher pain 603 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: tolerance than even chuck it can all, it can be 604 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: very hard to tell when they are feeling pain. Um My, 605 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: both my dogs got sick recently, so I got to 606 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: see this in action, like they didn't act sick for 607 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: a long time, and then I was like, you guys 608 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: are sick. That's why they recommend, like if your dog vomiting, 609 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: take them to the vet, because it's really tough to 610 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: tell if your dog's bad off norm just by looking 611 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: at their behavior totally um or if they like don't 612 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: eat all of a sudden, because that's you know, most dogs, 613 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: or at least all the dogs out had eat like, 614 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, voraciously, or if their head comes off that too. 615 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: As recently the nineteen eighties, it was why we believed 616 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: the animals didn't feel pain at all, And isn't that crazy. 617 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 1: In fact, you would still encounter veterinarians who don't believe 618 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: in giving pain meds for surgery and other injuries and animals. 619 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: Do you remember what kind of talks about that in 620 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: the animal rights episodes? Oh yeah, that's nuts. It is. 621 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: This line of thinking is obviously known to be wrong now, 622 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: and we have come a very long way in the 623 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: last twenty or thirty years giving better pain control to 624 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: animals in our care. Google dog pain scale you'll find 625 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 1: a large variety of different pain charts for animals. Keep 626 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: up the great work. We are eagerly, eagerly awaiting a 627 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: live show in St. Louis and now it's from Michael Richards. 628 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Michael Richards. We appreciate you writing it. 629 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: We come into St. Louis. Maybe all right, it's on 630 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: the table. Yeah, I think we've got some We're gonna 631 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: do some shows this year, folks, So look out in 632 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: the future. Look out. Maybe we'll see you there. If 633 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, you can 634 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 1: tweet to us on s YSK podcast and at josh 635 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: um Clark. You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook 636 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: at Charles W. Chuck Bryant and uh Facebook dot com 637 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know. You can send us an 638 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: email the Stuff podcast to how Stuff Works dot com 639 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: and has always joined us at our home on the web, 640 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this 641 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works 642 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: dot com? Mhm