Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. We are
Speaker 1: just back from Seneca Falls. Yeah, they were so kind
Speaker 1: to invite us to Convention Days. Yes, at the Women's
Speaker 1: Rights National Historical Park. We had a live show there
Speaker 1: on Sunday this past Sunday it is now Tuesday. We
Speaker 1: did Unfortunately, though we had a little bit of an
Speaker 1: issue with the recording. Yeah, well, it's like there's a
Speaker 1: combination of factors. We had the just immense honor of
Speaker 1: doing our live show in Wesleyan Chapel, which is where
Speaker 1: the Seneca Falls convention was held. As you might imagine
Speaker 1: from a chapel dating back to that area, it is
Speaker 1: essentially a big empty space. It's a big box adjacent
Speaker 1: to the road. Um. So, like for a number of reasons,
Speaker 1: it just we were not able to get clear audio
Speaker 1: of the live show that we did that day. So
Speaker 1: we are still going to talk about Frederick Douglas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll just do, yes, a studio version of that show.
Speaker 1: We do. Definitely they'll want to thank the folks of
Speaker 1: the National Park service um and Ashley Nottingham, who was
Speaker 1: a person who did all of the arranging or a
Speaker 1: lot of the arranging with us specifically for this, like,
Speaker 1: thank everyone for having us out because we had a
Speaker 1: wonderful time. Yeah, we had. I was so delighted by
Speaker 1: just how fun and kind and welcoming and warm everyone was.
Speaker 1: It was really lovely. Yes. Uh. And it is also
Speaker 1: a better service to Frederick Douglas to to have a nice,
Speaker 1: clean recording of him rather than uh, the somewhat noisier
Speaker 1: one from on the day. So today, as we just said,
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the life and work
Speaker 1: of orator, writer, states of an and social reformer Frederick Douglas.
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas's work was just tireless and prolific, and we
Speaker 1: could literally fill a whole episode of our show just
Speaker 1: listing off the titles of all his writings and all
Speaker 1: the positions that he held, and all the laws that
Speaker 1: he influenced, and all the speeches that he made, and
Speaker 1: all the people's whose rights he championed during his lifetime.
Speaker 1: He was even nominated for Vice President of the United
Speaker 1: States on the ticket with Victoria Woodhall in eighteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: Just as an example of a thing that happened that
Speaker 1: we're not even going to talk about in detail today.
Speaker 1: So our focus is really going to be on how
Speaker 1: his early life shaped the truly remarkable advocate that he became,
Speaker 1: and that his work with the two primary causes that
Speaker 1: he campaigned the most for. He campaigned for a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff that would all fall under the umbrella of
Speaker 1: like humanitarianism and human rights in some way, but the
Speaker 1: two biggest parts where the abolition of slavery and women's suffrage.
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was born Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey around February
Speaker 1: of eighteen eighteen in a region of Maryland's eastern shore
Speaker 1: known as Tuckahoe. He was enslaved from birth, and his
Speaker 1: exact birth date and place of birth are not known.
Speaker 1: His father was white, and although there was speculation that
Speaker 1: he may have been the owner or overseer of Douglas's mother, Harriet,
Speaker 1: his identity remains unknown as well. Douglas was separated from
Speaker 1: his mother while still a baby and sent to live
Speaker 1: with her parents, Betsy and Isaac Bailey. Betsy was enslaved
Speaker 1: and Isaac was free, and Betsy was known for her
Speaker 1: skills as a nurse and her knack for making and
Speaker 1: using fishing nets, along with being particularly good at growing
Speaker 1: sweet potatoes. People from all around would come to Frederick
Speaker 1: Douglas's grandmother to be like, can you help me out
Speaker 1: with my sweet potatoes because you are the best at
Speaker 1: growing them. That's a good life skill to have, ma'am.
Speaker 1: But Betsy's primary duty was actually caring for children, in
Speaker 1: particular her five daughter's children. Enslaved women were typically sent
Speaker 1: right back to work as soon as possible after giving birth,
Speaker 1: and they were not allowed to raise their own children,
Speaker 1: so Frederick had very little memory of his mother until
Speaker 1: the age of about seven. Those years with his grandmother
Speaker 1: were an odd mix of relative freedom and a growing
Speaker 1: comprehension that he was not free. The children had few
Speaker 1: physical comforts they just they didn't have really playthings or
Speaker 1: much to eat, but they also had few worries or constraints.
Speaker 1: In My Bondage and My Freedom, which was one of
Speaker 1: Douglas's autobiographies, he described the early years of a young
Speaker 1: enslaved boy as quote in a word, he is, for
Speaker 1: the most part of his first eight years of life,
Speaker 1: a spirited, joyous, uproarious, and happy boy upon whom troubles
Speaker 1: fall only like water on a duck's back. But as
Speaker 1: he got older, Douglas gradually came to perceive that the
Speaker 1: cabin that they were living in was not his grandmother's
Speaker 1: It and his grandmother, all of the other children, and
Speaker 1: he himself were in fact the property of someone they
Speaker 1: knew as old Master, and that was Captain Aaron Anthony,
Speaker 1: and Douglas faced a dawning understanding that he would at
Speaker 1: some point be forced to leave his grandmother to begin
Speaker 1: a life of enslaved labor. That happened when Douglas was
Speaker 1: seven or eight, and he was sent to the plantation
Speaker 1: of Colonel Edward Lloyd, who had previously been governor of
Speaker 1: Maryland and a United States Senator. And they're a woman
Speaker 1: known as Aunt Katie was the one responsible for the children,
Speaker 1: including some of her own, so she was sort of
Speaker 1: an exception to the typical behavior that women were not
Speaker 1: allowed to raise their own children. Aunt Katie's treatment of
Speaker 1: the children was incredibly cruel, and Douglas often went hungry
Speaker 1: when she would give his share of food to her
Speaker 1: own children instead. And it was on Lloyd's plantation that
Speaker 1: Douglas got to see just a little more of his mother,
Speaker 1: who was a field hand on another plantation. Even then, however,
Speaker 1: he didn't see her very often at all, and she
Speaker 1: died when he was not yet ten years old. After
Speaker 1: her death, Douglas learned that, quite unusually for a field hand,
Speaker 1: she had actually known how to read, and in later years,
Speaker 1: when racist commentators suggested that his skill with language probably
Speaker 1: came from his white father, he would insist that the
Speaker 1: credit should instead go to his mother. He still wasn't
Speaker 1: at this point in his life big enough to do
Speaker 1: field work, so while on Lloyd's plantation, Douglas did chores
Speaker 1: and errands, mainly for Lucretia Auld, who was Captain Anthony's
Speaker 1: married daughter. When Douglas was about eight, he was then
Speaker 1: hired out to another one of the Alds, Hugh Auld,
Speaker 1: Lucretia's brother in law, who worked as a ship carpenter
Speaker 1: in Baltimore. Douglas would later describe this as quote one
Speaker 1: of the most interesting and fortunate events of my life.
Speaker 1: Not only was he removed from the cruelty and brutality
Speaker 1: of the plantation, but he was also introduced to Hugh's wife, Sophia.
Speaker 1: Apparently unaware that it was illegal, or that it's illegality
Speaker 1: was a techno for controlling enslaved people. Sophia taught Frederick
Speaker 1: to read. Hugh All put a stop to these reading
Speaker 1: lessons as soon as he found out about them, but
Speaker 1: it was at this point too late to stop Douglas
Speaker 1: from learning how to read. And Frederick Douglas had already
Speaker 1: realized that literacy would be a key to finding his
Speaker 1: way to freedom. So when Sophia's reading lessons stopped, Douglas
Speaker 1: started trading his bread to white children that he would
Speaker 1: run into when he was out on the old Errands.
Speaker 1: And he would do this in exchange for their teaching
Speaker 1: him a few words out of a Webster's spelling book.
Speaker 1: He also gradually saved enough money to buy another book,
Speaker 1: The Columbian Orator, and this was a collection of speeches
Speaker 1: and essays and poems that had come into use as
Speaker 1: a school book. It began with general instructions for speaking,
Speaker 1: and it included the work of men like George Washington,
Speaker 1: John Milton, Socrates, and Cistero. And this he read and reread,
Speaker 1: finding a piece called Dialogue between a Master and Slave
Speaker 1: particularly compelling, and in that piece of writing, a master
Speaker 1: chastises his recaptured slave for having run away, and the slave,
Speaker 1: eloquently dissecting the inhumanity and injustice of slavery, convinces the
Speaker 1: master to free him. This is to me one of
Speaker 1: the most amazing things about Frederick Douglas. He was not
Speaker 1: just teaching himself to read by practicing. He was teaching
Speaker 1: himself rhetoric and how to make an argument and eloquence
Speaker 1: by studying this work, and the whole time that he
Speaker 1: was living in Baltimore, he continued teaching himself, eventually also
Speaker 1: using old copybooks and school books belonging to the auld
Speaker 1: Son in order to teach himself how to write, and
Speaker 1: as he got older, he started teaching other enslaved children
Speaker 1: he met to read as well. Baltimore was formative in
Speaker 1: other ways to Douglas. First heard the word abolition while
Speaker 1: he was there, and he began to piece together that
Speaker 1: there was an ambolitionist movement working to end slavery. He
Speaker 1: also became religious, worshiping in an African Methodist Episcopal church,
Speaker 1: while simultaneously coming to understand that the scriptures were being
Speaker 1: used to both justify slavery and to convince enslaved people
Speaker 1: that they should submit to it. He became increasingly aware
Speaker 1: of the hypocrisy of Christian slave owners who applied Christ's
Speaker 1: teachings only to white men while treating their enslaved workforce
Speaker 1: with severe cruelty. Frederick Douglas remained in Baltimore for about
Speaker 1: seven years. At this point, there was a series of
Speaker 1: deaths within his owner's family, as well as some inner
Speaker 1: family drama, and Thomas all demanded that he be returned
Speaker 1: to the plantation. Douglas only worked directly for Thomas Auld
Speaker 1: for about nine months, though he had become, in the
Speaker 1: eyes of his enslavers, a troublemaker. He tried to start
Speaker 1: a Sabbath school to teach other enslaved people, and he
Speaker 1: started standing up for himself and other people. So from
Speaker 1: Thomas Auld's point of view, Douglas had been ruined. So
Speaker 1: Thomas Ald hired Douglas out to a man named Edward Covey,
Speaker 1: who was a notorious slave breaker. So this is a
Speaker 1: man to whom slave owners would hire out their troublesome
Speaker 1: enslaved people for free so that he could train them. And,
Speaker 1: in Douglas's words quote, Mr. Covey could have under him
Speaker 1: the most fiery bloods of the neighborhood for the simple
Speaker 1: reward of returning them to their owners well broken. For
Speaker 1: the next six months, Covey beat Douglas on a nearly
Speaker 1: daily basis, and he also engaged in a sort of
Speaker 1: psychological warfare which was meant to make him feel as
Speaker 1: though he was constantly watched and constantly threatened. In eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty five, after his time with Covey was up, Douglas
Speaker 1: was hired out as a field hand to William Freeland,
Speaker 1: who was not nearly as cruel as Thomas Auld or
Speaker 1: Edward Covey had been. Douglas once again tried to start
Speaker 1: a Sabbath school to teach and educate other enslaved people.
Speaker 1: On January one, eighteen thirty six, Douglas resolved that he
Speaker 1: would be free by the end of the year, and
Speaker 1: he planned to liberate several of the other men enslaved
Speaker 1: with him as well. He forged passes for the group
Speaker 1: which said they had permission to go to Baltimore, but
Speaker 1: unfortunately their plan was discovered and all of the men
Speaker 1: were captured and taken to jail. After this escape attempt,
Speaker 1: Thomas all decided it would be best to send Frederick
Speaker 1: Douglas away, especially because of the Sabbath School and the
Speaker 1: influence that he was having among the enslaved people in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. It wasn't just that Thomas Auld was finding
Speaker 1: Douglas's behavior to be unacceptable, it was also that he
Speaker 1: was drawing the ire of other slave owners in the area.
Speaker 1: Thomas Auld was afraid that some harm was going to
Speaker 1: come to his property. So Douglas was sent back to Baltimore,
Speaker 1: and it was from there that he ultimately would escape.
Speaker 1: And we will get to that after a quick sponsor break.
Speaker 1: So back in Baltimore with Hugh and Sophie Auld, Frederick
Speaker 1: Douglas was first hired out to a shipyard, but after
Speaker 1: being attacked by a group of white laborers, which is
Speaker 1: something the authorities refused to investigate because no white witness
Speaker 1: would attest to it, he was allowed to seek out
Speaker 1: his own work. He would basically go and solicit work
Speaker 1: in places that he felt more safe working, and then
Speaker 1: he would turn over all of the pay that he
Speaker 1: earned to Hugh Auld at the end of each week.
Speaker 1: And eventually Douglas asked for permission to hire himself out
Speaker 1: during his off hours, and this would allow him to
Speaker 1: keep the pay above and beyond what was due back
Speaker 1: to the Alds, and it was viewed as a huge privilege.
Speaker 1: He secretly planned to save this pay in order to
Speaker 1: fund his escape, but his permission to hire his time
Speaker 1: was revoked after he attended a camp meeting one Saturday
Speaker 1: night instead of delivering his pay to Hugh Auld on schedule.
Speaker 1: This pushed Douglas's plans to escape into high gear. He
Speaker 1: was basicly afraid that if he made any kind of
Speaker 1: wrong move, it was going to become even harder for
Speaker 1: him to escape. They would be keeping an even closer
Speaker 1: eye on him. At this point, he had met and
Speaker 1: fallen in love with a free black woman named Anna Murray.
Speaker 1: She secured a sailor's uniform for him and gave him
Speaker 1: some of her savings to fund the way, and then
Speaker 1: he traveled using identification papers that had been borrowed from
Speaker 1: a free black man. He traveled by train and then
Speaker 1: steamboat and left Baltimore and traveled to New York City
Speaker 1: on September three, thirty eight. For a long time, he
Speaker 1: would not tell anyone exactly how he had done this,
Speaker 1: because he was afraid that if he did that escape
Speaker 1: route from Baltimore would get shut down, and once he
Speaker 1: arrived at a safe house belonging to abolitionist David Ruggles,
Speaker 1: he sent for Anna and they were married on September
Speaker 1: fift The pair would eventually have five children together, Rosetta, Lewis, Frederick, Charles,
Speaker 1: and Annie. Knowing that Douglas had were calking ships in Baltimore,
Speaker 1: Ruggles suggested that he go to New Bedford, Massachusetts, which
Speaker 1: had a large whaling and shipping industry, as well as
Speaker 1: a sizeable free black community. Douglas had traveled under several
Speaker 1: names while making his way to New Bedford, eventually landing
Speaker 1: on Johnson, but once he got there, there were so
Speaker 1: many other Johnson's in New Bedford that he thought it
Speaker 1: would be confusing to have yet another one, so he
Speaker 1: and Anna took the last name of Douglas. At first,
Speaker 1: the Douglas's life in New Bedford was dedicated to just
Speaker 1: trying to make ends meet and to find a home
Speaker 1: in their new community, and Douglas also resumed going to church.
Speaker 1: After encountering segregation and racism at New Bedford's Methodist church,
Speaker 1: he joined the African Methodist Episcopal Zionist Church and Eventually
Speaker 1: he became a lay minister there. A few months after
Speaker 1: settling in New Bedford, Douglas got a copy of William
Speaker 1: Lloyd Garrison's abolitionist newspaper, The Liberator. This was his entry
Speaker 1: into the thti slavery movement that he had first heard
Speaker 1: about back in Baltimore. Soon he was attending abolitionist meetings
Speaker 1: in In eighteen forty one, he attended and spoke at
Speaker 1: an anti slavery convention in Nantucket. This is his first
Speaker 1: time really speaking in public, and he didn't think he
Speaker 1: did a particularly great job. But afterward John A. Collins
Speaker 1: of the Massachusetts Anti Slavery Society asked Frederick Douglas to
Speaker 1: come and work for them as a speaker. He began
Speaker 1: to travel around the North and Midwest speaking against slavery.
Speaker 1: And although Douglas had a remarkable ability to draw from
Speaker 1: his own experience to change hearts and minds, his opposition
Speaker 1: to slavery was not about his own enslavement. His focus
Speaker 1: was on humanity as a whole in the inherent brutality
Speaker 1: and destructiveness of the institution of slavery. But by writing
Speaker 1: about his own experience, he was giving potential abolitionists particularly
Speaker 1: in the North, something many had lacked, and that was
Speaker 1: a window into the reality so the institution of slavery.
Speaker 1: This was incredibly important to the success of the movement
Speaker 1: for abolition, especially in the North. Slavery affected people's lives,
Speaker 1: particularly white people's lives, in really dramatic ways that they
Speaker 1: weren't necessarily even consciously aware of. Many wealthy and prominent
Speaker 1: families had earned their fortunes either directly through the slave
Speaker 1: trade or through industries that relied on enslaved labor. So
Speaker 1: even if no one in a community was currently enslaving anyone,
Speaker 1: it was incredibly likely that its wealthiest and most influential
Speaker 1: families were living on inherited wealth that came at least
Speaker 1: in part from slavery. And people were also traveling on
Speaker 1: roads and railroads, and attending schools and working in buildings
Speaker 1: that had been built by enslaved people, including the US
Speaker 1: Capital Building. So people were living in a nation that
Speaker 1: had been built on and financed through slavery, but they
Speaker 1: often didn't have a conscious connection to what any of
Speaker 1: that actually meant. That changed as Douglas spoke and wrote
Speaker 1: about fighting off dogs for crumbs of food, sleeping on
Speaker 1: bare floors with little protection from the cold, brutal beatings,
Speaker 1: the murder of an enslaved man named Denby at the
Speaker 1: hands of an overseer, the wilful destruction and separation of
Speaker 1: enslaved families, and the constant exhausting work that continued well
Speaker 1: after the work day was over, as enslaved people then
Speaker 1: had to care for their own food, care for their quarters,
Speaker 1: mend their clothes, and on and on. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: simply Douglas's documentation of the daily conditions and degradations of
Speaker 1: enslavement that influenced the abolition movement. He also wrote extensively
Speaker 1: on how the institution of slavery impacted the enslavers as
Speaker 1: well as the enslaved. By making enslaved people into a
Speaker 1: class that was supposedly less than human, enslavers were also
Speaker 1: corrupting their own humanity. These were all things that Douglas
Speaker 1: had experienced and learned and thought about during his years
Speaker 1: of enslavement, and he was particularly adept at putting them
Speaker 1: into words in a way that motivated readers and listeners
Speaker 1: to act. We should make clear he wasn't the only
Speaker 1: previously enslaved person that was writing and speaking about their
Speaker 1: own experience, but he did become particularly famous. In eighteen
Speaker 1: forty five, he published the first of three autobiographies, Narrative
Speaker 1: of the Life of Frederick Douglas, an American Slave, in
Speaker 1: part to debunk critics claims that he was too eloquent
Speaker 1: who have ever really been a slave? And in it
Speaker 1: he detailed the experiences that we talked about in the
Speaker 1: first part of our episode today, including naming who his
Speaker 1: owners had been, and that was a colossal risk under
Speaker 1: fugitive slave laws. He could be captured and returned to Maryland,
Speaker 1: and as his book became a bestseller, he left the country,
Speaker 1: sailing for Liverpool on August sixteenth of eighteen forty five.
Speaker 1: He arrived Fived in Britain, just before the start of
Speaker 1: the Great Famine in Ireland. As a side note, this
Speaker 1: was not the only time that Frederick Douglas would have
Speaker 1: to flee the country. He did again in eighteen fifty
Speaker 1: nine after John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry, after investigators
Speaker 1: found a letter that Douglas had written that could have
Speaker 1: led to his being named as a co conspirator. Douglas
Speaker 1: at that point didn't return home until eighteen sixty as
Speaker 1: the nation was careening towards Civil war. After learning that
Speaker 1: his daughter Annie had died at the age of eleven,
Speaker 1: so jumping back to eighteen forty five. For nearly two years,
Speaker 1: Douglas traveled around the British Isles and spoke against slavery
Speaker 1: and four civil rights, and while he was there, British
Speaker 1: supporters raised the funds to purchase his freedom. Thomas all
Speaker 1: First sold him to Hugh Auld for the sum of
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars, and Hugh released him from slavery on
Speaker 1: December five, eighty six. Douglas returned to the United States
Speaker 1: the following year, and he and his family moved to Rochester,
Speaker 1: New York work. Douglas received some criticism for allowing himself
Speaker 1: to be purchased, since to some it legitimized the institution
Speaker 1: that he was fighting against. They basically thought he was
Speaker 1: being complicit in the very thing that he was advocating
Speaker 1: to have abolished. But from Douglas's point of view, he
Speaker 1: had a calling and a duty to return to the
Speaker 1: United States and continue to fight slavery, something he would
Speaker 1: best be able to do if he was not simultaneously
Speaker 1: trying to evade capture or captured and returned South. Of course,
Speaker 1: the Civil War started in eighteen sixty one, and by
Speaker 1: that point Frederick Douglas was one of the most famous
Speaker 1: black men in the United States. Although the South was
Speaker 1: fighting the war in large part to protect and expand
Speaker 1: the institution of slavery, at first, the North was fighting
Speaker 1: primarily to preserve the Union. Douglas became an outspoken advocate
Speaker 1: for making the abolition of slavery one of the Union's
Speaker 1: goals as well, and he also recruited for the Union Army,
Speaker 1: and two of his sons served in the fifty fourth
Speaker 1: Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry. In eighteen sixty three, Douglas met with
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln about the treatment of black soldiers fighting for
Speaker 1: the Union and advocated for their receiving equal pay. Of course,
Speaker 1: the abolition of slavery did ultimately get folded into the
Speaker 1: Union schools in the Civil War, and when the war
Speaker 1: was over, slavery was indeed abolished. Douglas then turned his
Speaker 1: attention to protecting the lives and civil rights of African Americans,
Speaker 1: including campaigning for the right to vote. He also encouraged
Speaker 1: abolitionist organizations to turn their attention to Native Americans, whose
Speaker 1: condition he called, quote the saddest chapter in our history.
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas never like looked at an accomplishment and then said, okay,
Speaker 1: we're done now. If the if the thing he had
Speaker 1: been campaigning for, was successful, he would then find the
Speaker 1: next thing. And after the war he also held a
Speaker 1: number of so shill in political positions, including Charge da
Speaker 1: Fair for the Dominican Republic, Minister Resident and Consul General
Speaker 1: to Haiti, and the Recorder of Deeds of the District
Speaker 1: of Columbia. He served as president of the Freedman Savings Bank,
Speaker 1: and he was on the board at Howard University. The
Speaker 1: list of accomplishments and appointments that he had goes on
Speaker 1: and on and on. It is quite lengthy. Um. And
Speaker 1: even before the Civil War, Frederick Douglas had become a
Speaker 1: supporter of women's rights. And especially because we were originally
Speaker 1: giving this episode as a live show at Convention Days
Speaker 1: in celebration of the anniversary of the Seneca Falls Convention,
Speaker 1: made a lot of sense to spend a little more
Speaker 1: time on that which we are going to do. After
Speaker 1: another quick sponsor break, Frederick Douglas first met Susan B.
Speaker 1: Anthony in eighteen forty five, but his direct involvement with
Speaker 1: the movement for women's suffrage really started after he moved
Speaker 1: to Rochester with this family in eighteen forty seven. That December,
Speaker 1: he published his first issue of his newspaper, The North Star,
Speaker 1: which was one of several newspapers he would create and
Speaker 1: run during his lifetime. The North Star was printed with
Speaker 1: the motto right is of no sex, Truth is of
Speaker 1: no color. God is the father of us all, and
Speaker 1: we are all brethren and The Seneca Falls Convention began
Speaker 1: on July nineteenth of eighteen forty eight, and Douglas was
Speaker 1: one of only thirty two men out of about three
Speaker 1: hundred attendees. Of these men, he was the only one
Speaker 1: who supported Elizabeth Katie Stanton's resolution that women be allowed
Speaker 1: to vote, and he seconded her motion that the right
Speaker 1: to vote be one of their resolutions. He was one
Speaker 1: of the signers of the Declaration of Sentiments. Another woman's
Speaker 1: rights convention was held almost immediately in Rochester on August
Speaker 1: two of eighteen forty eight, and Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Katie Stanton recommended that Douglas be made its chair, although
Speaker 1: he ultimately wasn't. He did attend and speak at this
Speaker 1: convention as well, and both conventions were covered in the
Speaker 1: newspaper of the North Star. This was really um like
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas was already under a huge amount of scrutiny
Speaker 1: because he was a black man living in America, and
Speaker 1: becoming involved in the women's rights movement brought on a
Speaker 1: whole other layer of scrutiny because men who were involved
Speaker 1: in the movement were viewed with extreme suspicion and derision.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of undertone of like, something must
Speaker 1: be wrong with you for you to be into this. Yes,
Speaker 1: so there's definitely a lot of bravery in that move
Speaker 1: And in addition to being actively involved in the movement
Speaker 1: for women's rights and suffrage, Douglas took those ideas back
Speaker 1: with him to the movement for abolition. In eight Douglas
Speaker 1: presided at the National Convention of Colored Freedman in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: and under his leadership, the convention passed a resolution affirming
Speaker 1: equality between the sexes and women were actively invited to participate.
Speaker 1: Douglas presided over and introduced similar affirmations at other abolitionist
Speaker 1: meetings as well. Although obviously there were also black suffragists
Speaker 1: such as I. Toby Wells Barnett and A. Julia Cooper.
Speaker 1: The suffrage movement as a whole was largely focused on
Speaker 1: the needs and wants of relatively affluent white women, like
Speaker 1: if you read the Declaration of Sentiments, there are parts
Speaker 1: in it about things like your property becoming your husband's
Speaker 1: property when you marry. So we're starting from the foundation
Speaker 1: of women affluent enough to have property. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a narrow segment of women. At the end of the
Speaker 1: Civil War Reconstruction efforts to guarantee civil rights, including the
Speaker 1: right to vote to former slaves and their descendants, clashed
Speaker 1: with this focus of looking for voting rights for white women.
Speaker 1: At first, it actually seemed as though these two movements
Speaker 1: for suffrage could combine. At the first Women's Rights Convention
Speaker 1: after the Civil War, its name was changed to the
Speaker 1: Equal Rights Association, which would work toward universal suffrage, not
Speaker 1: just suffrage for women, and Frederick Douglas was one of
Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Association's three vice presidents. But as the
Speaker 1: Reconstruction amendments to the Constitution were drafted, a schism developed
Speaker 1: within the movement. The May eighteen sixty nine meeting of
Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Association took place after Congress had passed
Speaker 1: the Fifteenth Amendment, as it was up for ratification by
Speaker 1: the States. This amendment read quote the right of citizens
Speaker 1: of the United States to vote shall not be denied
Speaker 1: or abridged by the United States or by any State,
Speaker 1: on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Speaker 1: So this amendment made no reference to the rights of
Speaker 1: vote as related to sex, and Douglas was willing to
Speaker 1: accept this less than universal suffrage because he knew how
Speaker 1: much resistance there was to women's voting rights in much
Speaker 1: of the nation, and he thought it was likely that
Speaker 1: the fifteenth Amendment could only be ratified it if it
Speaker 1: didn't include women. He also thought that white women wanted
Speaker 1: the right to vote but had other ways to take
Speaker 1: political action, while overall the black population desperately needed to
Speaker 1: vote because they had no other means to take political
Speaker 1: action themselves. Of course, many of the Equal Rights Association
Speaker 1: vehemently disagreed, and the ensuing discussion, Douglas said, quote, when
Speaker 1: women because they are women are dragged from their homes
Speaker 1: and hung upon lamp posts, when their children are torn
Speaker 1: from their arms and their brains dashed out upon the pavement,
Speaker 1: when they are objects of insult and outrage at every turn,
Speaker 1: when they are in danger of having their homes burnt
Speaker 1: down over their heads, when their children are not allowed
Speaker 1: to enter schools, they will have an urgency to obtain
Speaker 1: the ballot equal to black men. Someone from the audience
Speaker 1: then asked whether this was not also true of black
Speaker 1: women as well, and he answered yes, yes, yes, it
Speaker 1: is true of the black woman, but not because she
Speaker 1: is a woman, but because she is black. So he
Speaker 1: was basically pointing out that like yes, it was right
Speaker 1: and and important for women to have the right to vote,
Speaker 1: but the need was a lot more dire for black
Speaker 1: people to have the rights to vote. The debate over
Speaker 1: the fifteenth Amendment split the Equal Rights Association. At the
Speaker 1: conclusion of the meeting, it was disbanded, with Susan B.
Speaker 1: Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton forming the National Woman's Suffrage
Speaker 1: Association to once again focus only on voting rights for women,
Speaker 1: even to the extent of directly opposing the fifteenth Amendment.
Speaker 1: Those who supported the fifteenth Amendment formed the American Woman
Speaker 1: Suffrage Association. We should also make it clear that this
Speaker 1: was not just an ideological dispute over the wording of
Speaker 1: the fifteenth Amendment and whether it included any references to
Speaker 1: sex or gender. There was also explicit sitism at work,
Speaker 1: with Elizabeth Katie Stanton, for example, saying quote, what will
Speaker 1: we and our daughters suffer if these degraded black men
Speaker 1: are allowed to have the rights? That would make them
Speaker 1: even worse than our Saxon fathers. I also kept finding
Speaker 1: reference to a quote by Susan B. Anthony about how
Speaker 1: she would rather cut off her right arm than campaign
Speaker 1: for vote for black people before women. I couldn't find
Speaker 1: the original place where she purportedly said that, but it
Speaker 1: came up over and over. There were also elements of
Speaker 1: the suffrage movement who argued that women should have the
Speaker 1: right to vote because white women would help form a
Speaker 1: voting block that would help maintain white supremacy, even if
Speaker 1: black people could also vote, and one such advocate of
Speaker 1: this was Henry B. Blackwell, husband of suffragist Lucy Stone.
Speaker 1: When the fifteenth Amendment was ratified on February three, eight seventy,
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas immediately began campaigning for a sixteenth Amendment to
Speaker 1: grant voting rights to women and he would continue to
Speaker 1: advocate for women's suffrage for the rest of his life. Sadly,
Speaker 1: Charlotte Woodward was the only signer of the Seneca Falls
Speaker 1: Conventions Declaration of Sentiments to live to see the ratification
Speaker 1: of the Nineteenth Amendment giving women the right to vote
Speaker 1: on August eighteenth of nineteen twenty. Apparently because of her
Speaker 1: poor health, she never actually got to vote herself. But
Speaker 1: even then, the same racially discriminatory voting laws that had
Speaker 1: already been suppressing black men's right to vote since the
Speaker 1: end of Reconstruction just applied to black women as well.
Speaker 1: So although the letter of the Nineteenth Amendment gave black
Speaker 1: women the right to vote, it was not until the
Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act of nineteen sixty five that many Black
Speaker 1: women and other women who were part of, you know,
Speaker 1: minority populations, were actually able to do so. And of course,
Speaker 1: discriminatory voting laws and attempts to suppress voters still exists today.
Speaker 1: I feel like every time I turn around, there's another
Speaker 1: case before the Supreme Court about it. To close out
Speaker 1: his story, we're going to return for a moment to
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas's last years in the eighteen seventies, He moved
Speaker 1: to Washington, d c. And his wife, Anna, died of
Speaker 1: a stroke in eighteen eighty two. In eighteen eighty four,
Speaker 1: he remarried a woman named Helen Pitts, which raised some
Speaker 1: eyebrows because she was about twenty years younger than he
Speaker 1: was and she was also white. On February, Frederick Douglas
Speaker 1: went to a meeting of the National Council of Women.
Speaker 1: He came home and began preparing to give a speech
Speaker 1: at a local church when he died suddenly of a
Speaker 1: heart attack. He was about seventy seven. He had been
Speaker 1: campaigning for equal rights until literally the last day of
Speaker 1: his life, that is Frederick Douglas. We were actually joined
Speaker 1: by Frederick Douglas there in Seneca Falls. Yeah. It was
Speaker 1: quite exciting. They had a wonderful reenactor there who was
Speaker 1: really great, and he came in a halfway through and
Speaker 1: I turned into Buddy the Elf. Yeah. He uh. He
Speaker 1: was very gracious. He he was um, he was so kind.
Speaker 1: He we had a lot of people who wanted to
Speaker 1: have pictures made after the show. Um, and he accommodated everyone.
Speaker 1: It was super gracious and warm and lovely the whole time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so everyone we met uh and while we were in
Speaker 1: Seneca Falls. UM was gracious and kind and welcoming. The
Speaker 1: National Park Service staff that we met were all amazing.
Speaker 1: We I said. I said at the top of the show,
Speaker 1: we were so honored to be able to do this show.
Speaker 1: Um there in the Wesleyan Chapel and its great. So
Speaker 1: if you get a chance to go to Seneca Falls,
Speaker 1: especially to go to a future convention days Uh, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a great time. That's a pretty great event. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Sadly we did not get to spend a ton of
Speaker 1: time in Seneca Falls. It was a very Uh that
Speaker 1: was a quick, quick turnaround trip. Yeah, it was a
Speaker 1: quick turnaround trip for both of us. Oh, and I
Speaker 1: also would like to thank my spouse for riding with
Speaker 1: me slush and driving the car all the way there
Speaker 1: and back. We made a weekend trip out of it,
Speaker 1: and I don't think I could have made the drive
Speaker 1: by myself because it's it's it's a stretch. Do you
Speaker 1: also have some listener mail for us? I sure do. Um.
Speaker 1: This is from Rick and it is about our Unearthed
Speaker 1: in July episode. Rick says, I was listening to your
Speaker 1: latest Unearthed episode while commuting to work today and your
Speaker 1: discussion of brew stones felt especially serendipitous to me. In California,
Speaker 1: fourth graders learn about California history and in particular, the
Speaker 1: California Missions system. My daughter is entering fourth grade in
Speaker 1: the Falls, and my wife and I have taken upon
Speaker 1: ourselves to take our daughter to visit all twenty one
Speaker 1: missions in California. This weekend, we were visiting the mission
Speaker 1: San Francisco, Solano and so No, the northernmost and last
Speaker 1: mission built. During the tour, from our docent, we were
Speaker 1: told about how the Native American tribes in the area
Speaker 1: Miwalk and Pomo cooked inside woven baskets. Obviously, they couldn't
Speaker 1: place them on a fire like you would with an
Speaker 1: iron pot, so they would drop a heated stone into
Speaker 1: the basket filled with acorn porridge, which was the staple
Speaker 1: food source for them. Apparently, worldwide, the use of stones
Speaker 1: for cooking liquids has been prevalent in all Stone age societies.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your incredible show. Even as
Speaker 1: a rabid fan of history, I learned something new every week.
Speaker 1: Keep up the good work, Rick. Thank you so much. Rick,
Speaker 1: I somehow did not know that, and now I do,
Speaker 1: and I am kind of delighted to know that this
Speaker 1: is a phenomenon from all over the world. I think
Speaker 1: I just assumed that if you did not have iron
Speaker 1: pots yet and you were cooking food over a fire,
Speaker 1: you were skewering things on sticks. This. Um, I gotta confess.
Speaker 1: I always have that like crafty part of me that
Speaker 1: wants to try stuff like this, but I envision making
Speaker 1: a horrible disaster. Yeah, and you you had brought up
Speaker 1: when we did that unearthed episode that it brings a
Speaker 1: whole new meaning to stone soup Um story that many
Speaker 1: of us have heard as children. Anyway, one more thank
Speaker 1: you to everyone who was involved at convention days and
Speaker 1: Seneca Falls in the National Park Service, folks, all of that,
Speaker 1: which was we were so glad to be there. We
Speaker 1: had such a good time. Fingers crossed that. Uh. We
Speaker 1: we don't have to studio redo our live shows very often.
Speaker 1: I think this is only the second time, and uh
Speaker 1: the first time, it was only part of it that
Speaker 1: we needed to read. So anyway, if you would like
Speaker 1: to write to us, we were at History Podcast at
Speaker 1: how Stuffworks dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook
Speaker 1: dot com, slash miss in History and on Twitter. At
Speaker 1: miss in History, are Tumbler, miss in history dot tembler
Speaker 1: dot com, basically all of our social media, including Pinterest
Speaker 1: and Instagram all at miss in history dot com. You
Speaker 1: can come to our parent company's website, which is how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com to find information on just about
Speaker 1: anything your heart desires. You can come to our website,
Speaker 1: which is missed in history dot com, where you will
Speaker 1: find a searchable archive of every episode that we have
Speaker 1: ever done, also show notes for all the episodes Holly
Speaker 1: and I have done other cool stuff. So you can
Speaker 1: do all that and a whole lot more at how
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com or missed the history dot com.
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com.