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Speaker 1: Ah, beaut Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community

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Speaker 1: softrep dot com on time on Target. I hope that

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Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed that last episode that the Sam Fattest. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Sam was great. A lot of insight there and as

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Speaker 1: I mentioned, Sam, along with the Odissean, James Powell and

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Speaker 1: Daniel Dzer were a part of the first ever inside

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Speaker 1: the team or on those in the intelligence field. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's going up in segments on the spec Ops channel.

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Speaker 1: But I spoke to n Khale who had that audio

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Speaker 1: and video, and I'm saying, like, you gotta use some

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Speaker 1: of that on the podcast and tease it out there. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know that hopefully you guys will enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: And if you're not already a member of the spec

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Speaker 1: ops channel, you check that out at spec ops channel

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Speaker 1: dot com so you can see the full series. Um.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I'm actually recording the intro for this at

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Speaker 1: my home set up. And you might be like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that microphone sounds pretty good. You sound pretty sexy, and

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Speaker 1: I say thank you to that. Um. Uh, well, you

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Speaker 1: know what you know it's funny. I'll tell you guys this.

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Speaker 1: So every now and again I get asked, like for

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Speaker 1: people who have a home set up of like what's

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Speaker 1: the best mike to get? And the mic that I

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Speaker 1: use in the studio is great. We use one of

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Speaker 1: those hile Um. I think that's how it's pro uh microphones,

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Speaker 1: which are the same ones they use at Sirius x

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Speaker 1: m Um, that's why we suggested them. But then when

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Speaker 1: I record these episodes at home, i'd have the that

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Speaker 1: blue Yetti microphone, which, if I'm gonna be honest with

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Speaker 1: you guys, is a piece of crap. I I am

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Speaker 1: not a fan, so I always said when people would

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Speaker 1: ask me, what's the best home microphone to get? For one,

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Speaker 1: I am, by no means a tech guy, so I

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Speaker 1: always defer to kill who helps me out with all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. Um. But I also couldn't say that what

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Speaker 1: I had was great because I don't think that blue

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Speaker 1: Yetti microphone sounded very good. I mean, that's what you

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Speaker 1: you'll hear me on in the last episode. So I

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Speaker 1: finally made a little investment here which was relatively cheap though,

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Speaker 1: and got the road. Um it's made by road it's

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Speaker 1: the nt U s B mike, and I'm not being

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Speaker 1: paid by them or anything like that if you're not

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Speaker 1: a sponsor. But I really love the sound of this microphone.

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Speaker 1: Like I think it sounds just as good as any

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Speaker 1: microphone I've used. That's like double the price of this thing.

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Speaker 1: So since I get those questions now and again, I

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Speaker 1: could actually give you a good answer now. And this road,

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Speaker 1: Uh let me make sure of the name right again.

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Speaker 1: This road nt U s B mic NTI USB condenser

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Speaker 1: mike is really um great. I'm enjoying it. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's the first time ever on it, so I can't

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Speaker 1: talk about the longevity of it or anything like that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm a fan of just the way I'm sounding

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Speaker 1: right now, and hopefully you guys are as well. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Getting into this episode itself. Like I said, this is

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Speaker 1: a segment from inside the team Room. Uh, please become

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Speaker 1: a member of the spec Ops channel. Not only do

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Speaker 1: you get all those inside the Team Room episodes, but

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Speaker 1: you'll also get at all the episodes of Training Cell,

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Speaker 1: which a lot of work goes into. Those guys work

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Speaker 1: so hard on recording those episodes and putting together new stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: and just a lot of other great material and great

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Speaker 1: content is on there on the spec Ops channel. And

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Speaker 1: plus we have the app for I for um the

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Speaker 1: iPhone and Android. Now if you look up the spec

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Speaker 1: ops channel apps, So become a member for a limited time,

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Speaker 1: it's only four ninety nine a month spec ops channel

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Speaker 1: dot com. UH. As always, we have our clubs first

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Speaker 1: and foremost Create Club, the premier club of gear handpicked

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Speaker 1: by Special Operations military veterans. UH. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of great collaborations in the works right now,

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Speaker 1: stuff that you're not going to find anywhere else. UH.

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Speaker 1: I should mention since we have Ernie Emerson coming back

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Speaker 1: on the podcast Jim West, which is going to be

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Speaker 1: a blast. We've had Emerson knives in those premium crates.

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Speaker 1: So UH, if you're not already a member, get on it.

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Speaker 1: Create Club dot u us. And we've also partnered with

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Speaker 1: Kuna Dogs, So if you're looking for supplements and toys

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Speaker 1: sent to your dog each month, uh, Kuna is where

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Speaker 1: it's at. It's it's specifically picked for your dog depending

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Speaker 1: on their size and age, and they mix it up

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Speaker 1: and do different you know, great work with that and

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Speaker 1: they speak the experts in the field so it's Kuna

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Speaker 1: dot dog cu and a dot d o G. And

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Speaker 1: what we get into from this segment of the Intelligence

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Speaker 1: inside the Team room is we start with the Odissean

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Speaker 1: favorite of the show, talking about living a compartmentalized lifestyle. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then then it goes into Sam Fattist talking about

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Speaker 1: working with his wife. So as Sam says, he's never

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Speaker 1: not at the office, which is a different obstacle than

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Speaker 1: what most other guys are used to. Um, if you

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Speaker 1: don't know all of these people speaking, the Odissean, James Powell,

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Speaker 1: Sam Faddistan, you'll be easy. They've all been on the

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Speaker 1: show before. So uh. If you might be like, who

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Speaker 1: is this talking? I would say maybe familiarize yourself with

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Speaker 1: those names, look back in the archives or episodes with

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Speaker 1: all of them, and you can pause this and then

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Speaker 1: check it out. They've all been here. Uh. They also

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Speaker 1: get into habits that you get into after leaving the

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Speaker 1: community and entering the civilian realm. Some some of those

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Speaker 1: may sound like paranoia, but some of it may just

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Speaker 1: sound like being situationally aware. I'll leave that up for

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Speaker 1: you to interpret. A lot of this audio was recorded

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Speaker 1: on a boom mic. Actually, I was there when they

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Speaker 1: recorded it, So you know, I don't know the reason

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Speaker 1: for that. Not everybody had like a um mike on

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Speaker 1: their lapel or anything like that. So, uh, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear the difference in in me speaking right now than

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Speaker 1: when it jumps to this audio. So I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: that in advance, So all I could say to that

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Speaker 1: is crank it up. I really think you're going to

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Speaker 1: enjoy it, though, And once you're done with it, go

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Speaker 1: become a member of the spec Ops channel if you're

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Speaker 1: not already spec Ops channel dot com, and you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: also actually hear Drew Wallace and Jack Murphy jump in

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Speaker 1: a couple of times during this because they were there

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Speaker 1: and they were kind of keeping it going by asking

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Speaker 1: some questions now and again, so you'll hear those two voices. Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's get right into it, all right. So we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the like the psychology of

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Speaker 1: living like a compartmentalized lifestyle. I guess we probably also

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Speaker 1: need to explain what a compartmentalized lifestyle of profession is

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Speaker 1: in terms of having the different um like segments or

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Speaker 1: sections of your life. I was explained, Uh, the analogy

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Speaker 1: I was giving was an office full of cuticles. And

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Speaker 1: you have, for example, maybe your family is at one

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Speaker 1: key a certain element of your professionals and another keyble

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Speaker 1: your hobbies are in another keypole and you try to

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Speaker 1: keep those things separated for security reasons or psychological reasons

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. So let's talk about the psychology

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Speaker 1: that goes into this lifestyle. Lifestyle. So Animan asked me,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you think you can hit me with

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Speaker 1: the nitty greed. Yeah, well, I mean when you're running

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Speaker 1: operations first, so I gotta understand. You know, you're sort

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Speaker 1: of on seven, right, three or sixty five days a year.

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Speaker 1: You don't deploy, comeback, take down time. And if you're

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Speaker 1: on foreign soil, so there is no break, right, You're

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Speaker 1: in it and all of the time. And so you've

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Speaker 1: got have You've got lots of stuff going on in

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Speaker 1: your life that you can't talk to normal people about. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you're just working at a furious pace. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think most people don't really understand the speed with which

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Speaker 1: CIA because I've spent a lot of times in the military,

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Speaker 1: I've working with the military, and I know that you

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Speaker 1: gotta just like just no comparison. You're just moving so

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Speaker 1: much faster, and things that other people would be taking

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Speaker 1: three months to plan. Is we talked about it this morning,

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Speaker 1: We're doing it tonight. Your line sometimes it's getting the car.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna make up the planet. Okay, hopefully that doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen too well. Right, So you got you got all

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Speaker 1: of this, You got physical danger. Sometimes you got a team.

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Speaker 1: CIA case officers work alone. And I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time just with a gun on my ankle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when if I messed everything up tonight, the final plan

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Speaker 1: is me and hope I can shoot this guy. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: he's probably really close, so I have a decent shot.

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Speaker 1: H the passenger seat right, And then you got your assets, right,

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Speaker 1: You run sources and your CIA case officer and is

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Speaker 1: no joke keeping that source alive is that's your whole thing.

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Speaker 1: That's your bond, and they take it very very serious.

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Speaker 1: So every mistake, any every mistake you make, any mistake

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Speaker 1: you make, that dude is dead. He's going to prison,

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Speaker 1: his life has ruined, his family is destroyed. And that's

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Speaker 1: on you all day. And you might be handling and

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Speaker 1: I don't know a dozen assets thatch and you're meeting

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Speaker 1: sources almost every night you're a doing that. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what happens you you get your in a psychological pressure.

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Speaker 1: What happens is like what happens in most of my

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Speaker 1: pressure careers, like in law enforcement. Um, some people handling

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Speaker 1: some people don't. Divorce rates to the roof people. Some

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Speaker 1: people can handle the but if some people can't, you

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Speaker 1: can't talk to it, to talk to your family about it.

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Speaker 1: Either you can't because well I could because my because

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Speaker 1: of my wife and I are a tandem act. And

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Speaker 1: actually my entire careers operation coats heels. They just hang

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Speaker 1: on to her, follow programmers. She does that. She does

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Speaker 1: all the hard work. But that's a benefit, right in

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Speaker 1: the sense that you know what you're doing. It also

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Speaker 1: means you are never not at the office. I mean,

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Speaker 1: now you're that your entire pp is so crushing pressure.

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Speaker 1: You get to the point where you are at home.

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Speaker 1: You're off work so to speak, you're off the clock,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. Boom, something comes on TV UM and

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Speaker 1: I won't get into the details of it, but even

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Speaker 1: something like the scandal at Penn State. Yeah, when that

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Speaker 1: hit the news, automatically, I had to get in my

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Speaker 1: car and drive to the office and my boss met

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Speaker 1: me there and it started this whole process. And I

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Speaker 1: can't go on too why but something like that, even

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Speaker 1: if you're just trying to relax, you got your bourbon

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and you just see something on the news,

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Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, I'll see you later, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you just gotta get dressed to go. So you're

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Speaker 1: never off. My wife and I used to do this thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're moving a thousand miles an hour, you're

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Speaker 1: both seeing sources, you're doing all this time. Every once

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Speaker 1: in a while, we you know, ships passing in the night.

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Speaker 1: We need at the house and be like obviously standing

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Speaker 1: outside and never talk in your house, right, don't talk

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Speaker 1: in your car, don't talking to your house. Uh, don't

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Speaker 1: talk in your hotel room. Compare notes. What do you

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Speaker 1: got going on tonight? Realize, oh my god, neither one

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Speaker 1: of us has anything going on tonight. This is unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna watch an whole movie and fall asleep on

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Speaker 1: the couch. That is the big We actually get to chill. Same.

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Speaker 1: Is there ever a time and that's as some point

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Speaker 1: unique situation that you and your wife were both in

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Speaker 1: the agency. Is there ever a time where it because

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Speaker 1: compartmentalize asue you couldn't tell her something, she couldn't tell

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Speaker 1: you something. It was a kind of like, yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: very everyone knows the deal here. Yeah, I mean when

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Speaker 1: so you know, my wife is a case officer and

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Speaker 1: station as well. So there are cases that she does

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Speaker 1: that I'm handling. I know she's in. And then there

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Speaker 1: are degrees of compartmentalization within the agency, right, So there

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Speaker 1: are definitely in cases we're only a very very limited

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Speaker 1: number of people. Even within operationcy one hundred percent, I

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Speaker 1: handled assets and ran in operations that she was not

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Speaker 1: privy too. She did the same. In fact, actually at

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Speaker 1: one point she ran an operation which was a counterintelligence

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Speaker 1: investigation with me without tell them just look scary. Actually

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Speaker 1: unfortunately it's all good. But you have to be able

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Speaker 1: to do that thing. You have to be able to

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Speaker 1: do that. But I think this whole segment is talking

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Speaker 1: about the psychologist. You have to be able to do that.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't can it burns you out? You talked

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Speaker 1: about okay, so we said you're never off. Then the

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Speaker 1: problem becomes when it does blo, we're okay, So you're

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Speaker 1: married to another case officer. I was married to a

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Speaker 1: counter intelligence case officer at one point no longer may

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Speaker 1: or may not have had anything to do with it,

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Speaker 1: but it bleeds over into your personal life even without

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Speaker 1: meaning to. And that's a conversation Jason and I were

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Speaker 1: having earlier. You know, there's a rule for case officers

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Speaker 1: never CEO another CEO. Right, So CEO as a case officer, right,

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Speaker 1: you have this this set of skills right that you're taught.

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Speaker 1: You know how to elicit information from people, how to

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Speaker 1: manipulate information. It's about the human condition. We talked about. Effectively,

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Speaker 1: our jobs are to like cheat at steel legally, right,

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Speaker 1: we do all of these things. Trying not to take

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Speaker 1: that home to your friends and your family and the

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Speaker 1: other people is really different. So so one thing, a

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Speaker 1: fact is absolutely important to everything we filled in this series.

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Speaker 1: But I want to keep it onto the compartmentalization. But

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Speaker 1: none of us need to forget that. We need to

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Speaker 1: drag it back to that because we all have a

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Speaker 1: set of skills that that that that bleeds like so

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Speaker 1: for me in compartmentalization, I've never ever had a single

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Speaker 1: bit of problem keeping whatever I do locked hopefully air

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Speaker 1: type in all the compartments. That takes a lot of

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Speaker 1: time out of my day when I'm back in Japan

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Speaker 1: most days. Um, but what I find bleeding compartments and

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Speaker 1: skill sets. I never went to any formal training for

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Speaker 1: anything I know how to do. UM and Jason and

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Speaker 1: I talked about this great length, you know, like I

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Speaker 1: think killed a selection process. I'm just not dead. I

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Speaker 1: didn't get formally trained in any of this stuff. Psychological impact,

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Speaker 1: psychological yeah right right, And so the bleeding of compartments

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Speaker 1: of that you need to get back to, which is

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Speaker 1: related to the compartments, but in terms of the compartments

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Speaker 1: of the other parts of your life. A lot of

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Speaker 1: not a lot of people. I know of people in

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Speaker 1: the agency that have a job in the agency that

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Speaker 1: isn't really their job in the ages. Yeah, yeah right,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's it's a comfort. Maintain your problems. Come

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Speaker 1: and maintain those things. And so with me, my kids

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Speaker 1: knew fairly early to too early on what I did. UM,

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Speaker 1: not exactly, but where I should say I worked my

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Speaker 1: ex wife and I had that conversation when we believe

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Speaker 1: they are mature enough. I took it to my bosses

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Speaker 1: and they basically said, if you believe they're ready for it,

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Speaker 1: you're you know, you have to just weigh the consequences

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Speaker 1: because once those words are adding your mouth, you can't

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Speaker 1: take them back. You can't take them back. So psychologically

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Speaker 1: it's not just affecting you, it's affecting your family. And

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Speaker 1: of course you're required to tell your spouse what you do,

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Speaker 1: so now you put that in their moment. And because

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Speaker 1: going back to the see owing thing, because your spouse

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Speaker 1: is more mature than your children. Hopefully hopefully they probably

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Speaker 1: have a better idea based on movies or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: at least the base idea of what it is that

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Speaker 1: you do. So now psychologically, anything that comes out of

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Speaker 1: your mouth, they may be thinking, is that the truth?

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Speaker 1: You see? Really tell me the truth? And then you're

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Speaker 1: psychologically yourself. You you have to compartmentalize what little information

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Speaker 1: you can give. And then there are some people who

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Speaker 1: wear their heart on their sleeves, so it's they may

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Speaker 1: feel that guilt you know about lying to that person

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Speaker 1: or you know in your spouse and you should even

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Speaker 1: know other or whatever. But there are a little habits,

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Speaker 1: since we're talking psychologically, that we take with us from military,

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Speaker 1: that discipline, whatever, but also from the intelligence world. Um

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Speaker 1: it used to be, and I'm sure it still is.

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Speaker 1: You know, you turn your phone off a mile from whatever,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, you know, wherever your headquarters or station

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. I don't do that anymore. However,

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Speaker 1: I'm still very conscious of the consciousness what I say

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Speaker 1: on the phone. Um, you know where I leave my phone,

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Speaker 1: always have my phone on me. Uh. It's to the

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Speaker 1: point where I'll see a vehicle in my rear view

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Speaker 1: of my side of you and be like, wow, they

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Speaker 1: just mean three turns with me, And then I'm like, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: what am I doing here? You don't don't calm down,

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Speaker 1: you know, Um, But those things we carry with us.

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Speaker 1: So I never had the negative psychological effects of it,

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Speaker 1: except I will say this. I talked earlier about going

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Speaker 1: to work every day, turn on my computer, reading that

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Speaker 1: cable traff with me like it's the best in the world.

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Speaker 1: I'm no longer doing that. So now I feel that

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Speaker 1: it's almost like a sense of loss, like I feel

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because I feel trapped in that world

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Speaker 1: between the average Joe on the street and someone who's

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Speaker 1: still working in and who's there to know your side

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Speaker 1: of the natrix absolutely and you know that you can't

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Speaker 1: ask that perhaps sold this thing on TV? Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me? Because if they're gonna you'd be like, you

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Speaker 1: know better, you know you, you you know better than that,

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Speaker 1: but you're always going to have that war want Psychologically,

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Speaker 1: there's always been paranoid before. But I think if if

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Speaker 1: you've done our jobs and you're not paranoid, you weren't

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Speaker 1: paying attention, but you're not paranoid if they really are

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Speaker 1: out absolutely so I choked, I joked with every single

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Speaker 1: one of us about this, and and like, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it got me alive exactly, but I've always said

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Speaker 1: the same thing, it's not paranoia. If they could be

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Speaker 1: following me, could It's true. Could I didn't always go

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Speaker 1: straight home to any of the homes or who ches

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Speaker 1: were hides that I had. I would always take a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of ninety returns you go through a really

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Speaker 1: really open area so I could see or whatever it

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Speaker 1: is know. And and yeah, you used the word when

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Speaker 1: you were talking discipline, right, okay, which applies to a

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Speaker 1: lot of things, clearly applies the military across the board.

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Speaker 1: But when you're talking about compartmentation or I would use

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Speaker 1: maybe a broader word tradecraft. Just deal, this is just bedrock, man,

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Speaker 1: this is not fungible sort of I try kind of

339
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Speaker 1: if it's just it's it's by the numbers. I mean,

340
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Speaker 1: you could operate in the military in a certain os.

341
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Speaker 1: You're to operating a piece of equipment. Were taking up

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Speaker 1: the helicopter. We're operating this army vehicle. We don't sort

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Speaker 1: of check things, we don't kind of make sure we don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't feel like it might fly to day. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's just this is the way we do it, and

346
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Speaker 1: then there is no other way, and we do it.

347
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Speaker 1: And if you're in operation, it's got to be ways.

348
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Speaker 1: You do not talk on the phone about anything that

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Speaker 1: has to do with work. You do not write down

350
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Speaker 1: notes and keep them on you. I don't care where

351
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Speaker 1: you are. You don't you don't turn on the television

352
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Speaker 1: and have a conversation thinking that that sound masking mean

353
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Speaker 1: you can now defeat audio. Or you don't ever cut

354
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Speaker 1: in any corners. And I'm okay, I'm more damaged than you, man.

355
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Speaker 1: I still look for surveillance AFT there. You asked me

356
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Speaker 1: to write a note. I'm gonna take a three by

357
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Speaker 1: five cards out. I'm gonna go to the hard surface, right,

358
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Speaker 1: whatever it is on that car, because it will leave

359
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: no impressions on any other cards. I will not write

360
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Speaker 1: on a pad of paper. I wait, and I will

361
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Speaker 1: not exactly. My wife and I to this day it's

362
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Speaker 1: been I have a significant conversation. I would just say,

363
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 1: people to take a walk. We're going to walk down

364
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Speaker 1: across the property. Who the heck is listening to sing?

365
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: They got a whisper about some issue with our kids

366
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Speaker 1: because I have no idea and pretty much guarantee no nobody,

367
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: but I am still going to back. It's still very

368
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: there is ingraining. So so one of the things about

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Speaker 1: like since I guess we moved into the tradecraft, and

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Speaker 1: even I've had this conversation like I don't call any

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Speaker 1: of the ship that I do, or in any of

372
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Speaker 1: the any of these skills or abilities I've developed over

373
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Speaker 1: the years, I wouldn't call that tradecraft. I mean it

374
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 1: is fundamentally, but whatever, technically it's not. So I think

375
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Speaker 1: there's a difference. And we've talked about like the kind

376
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Speaker 1: of psychological profile that could be involved in this job.

377
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 1: So do you have attention to detail of pattern recognition?

378
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 1: Because you have it, and that's what drew you to

379
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Speaker 1: this career or did you develop that because you've got

380
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: into this career but you had other I think you

381
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: have a propensity for That's what I believe. It's molded

382
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: and shaped over the Yes, if you don't have a

383
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Speaker 1: propensity for it, I don't think you make It's just

384
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Speaker 1: like in a personality where one thing that a phone,

385
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Speaker 1: one of the own forms. We can give you everything

386
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: in this book here. We cannot give you a personnity,

387
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: but you don't have it. I can make to make

388
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: you better if you don't have a certain amount of

389
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: natural built I would have loved to have been in

390
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: the NFL profile are back. I'm pretty sure the best

391
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: coaching in the world is not gonna not gonna happen,

392
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: not gonna make that happen. So one of the things

393
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: that I like, I personally think and I'm gonna toss

394
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: this up to you guys to to discuss or think

395
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: about it or whatever. So so that that propensity, that

396
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: psychological propensity to have attention to detail or to to

397
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: be a discipline about certain things. Um. I I believe

398
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: that those are the things that come with us once

399
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: we leave that career, field or whatever. And those Those

400
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: are the things that don't die. You may feel like

401
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: you want to turn your fault off a mile away

402
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: from a certain location, but you're not. You're probably never

403
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: gonna stop thinking you should, but you're not doing it now.

404
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: Because you have attention to detail and discipline, that doesn't

405
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: mean you have to activate. That's one of the things

406
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: that you brought up to me at Shot several years

407
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: ago was that when I'm in public and I moved

408
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: my location, the very first thing to do was break

409
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: up my outline. And I mean, that's just the thing, okay,

410
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: So so I'll give you the example. So several years ago,

411
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: Jack Murphy and Jay and I was sitting at like

412
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Speaker 1: a cafe wherever its shot and H I always generally,

413
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: always in public, will wear neutral color jacket with a hood,

414
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: and we had been with each other for the last

415
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: three days. Every single time I stand up, but the

416
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: first thing I did was flipped that hood on because

417
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: it's broken my outline. I mean, we joke all the

418
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: time about that. When I was in Japan, I'd go

419
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: to meets and I changed my hat. You know what's

420
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: funny about that is if I was running a countersurmilance

421
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: on you, I'd have a pattern on you for doing that. Yeah,

422
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: well you can have a pattern for me on anything.

423
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: But if I know you're following me, I know you've

424
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: got a profile, and so I maintained that profile. But

425
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: this unless you don't see yeah yeah she's good. Yeah yeah,

426
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: and see, that is actually where I mean, I guess

427
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: we would be rambling into the paranoia zone. But so

428
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: that's where we get into those layers with ship like, well,

429
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: I know they could be following me, so I'm going

430
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: to maintain this profile. Even if I don't know they're there,

431
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm still maintaining a profile. Um, so make they know

432
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: that I'm maintaining profile where they've analyzed that it's not

433
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: parafile so that it's like, man, you are so many

434
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: rabbit holes into a complete circle, Tangent. I personally, in

435
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: my personal experience, UM, I have to get to a

436
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: point where the discipline kicks and it's like stop being

437
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: a fucking morn. But then, you know, maybe you can

438
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: speak to that from a counterintelligence perspective. I mean, how

439
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: hard is it to run intel a trained professional. That's

440
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: a totally different ball game, isn't it. Yeah, it's a

441
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: totally different ball game. And in fact, usually the ones

442
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: we find are not the trained professionals, right, So they're

443
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: the ones that the trains professional has recruited and maybe

444
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: not given them. Just so. The hard part is when

445
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: you're recruiting somebody maybe you guys can speak to this

446
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: little bit, you don't ever want to give them tradecraft,

447
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: right because you don't want to make them better look obvious. Well,

448
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: well you don't make them look obvious to either, right,

449
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: because they're not going to do it well. Right, So

450
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: that's what we're looking for. We're looking for somebody who

451
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: thinks they just have enough skill. Very difficult to rencount

452
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: intelligence onnitoring professionals. So finding somebody usually we know who

453
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: they are, right, if they're in country, you already know

454
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: who they are. They're not going to do anything that's

455
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: going to get them busted on spionage law. It's the

456
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: person they might be running their source that they've recruited

457
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: that is probably going to be the same. Yeah, you

458
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: find the weak Lincoln, you hope that they have been

459
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: enough of a week length that they've connected themselves to it.

460
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: But if they're really good at their job, if they

461
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: are a good case officer, they eliminate at all. Yeah.

462
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, what I would say about surveillance is you

463
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: never want to operate well. You want to avoid if

464
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: you possibly can, operating a mode where your plan is

465
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: that you're going to have surveillance right and now we're

466
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: going to go get away from these guys. There are

467
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: places where that's avoid that. There are places where there

468
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: you have no tuition with the study when it's probably

469
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: as far down that roads we can go. But the

470
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: point is, if you attract attention and they are looking

471
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: at you, then tomorrow, having taken note of you, instead

472
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: of sending eight guys to follow you, you're gonna send

473
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty guys and you're gonna hang a

474
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: beacon on your car and you're gonna down again at

475
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: ten thousand feet and you can be Superman and people

476
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: never see those And you know, like, this is the

477
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: other thing that Jay and I have talked about. Ala.

478
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't I don't suspect that I've

479
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: ever been followed by a trained profession um. But but

480
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: with that, like it came back to the rule number one,

481
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,239
Speaker 1: maintained profile. If I know him in a country, you're

482
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: not got surveillance, or in my case, if I know

483
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: that people know that I've been asking too many questions

484
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: and now people are following me, the last thing I

485
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: really want to do is break that, break that surveillance,

486
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: because now they're going to know that I have a

487
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: level of skilled exceeds what they initiative thought, and that

488
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: is an indicator. If I was following a guy he

489
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: broke my surveillance, I would instantly read what that person

490
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: is doing as an indicator. Okay, I've got to keep

491
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: this up and get a hundred fifty guys and the

492
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: ten thousand foot view and a beacon on his car

493
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: and wire respond because this dude isn't just a tune,

494
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: and surrounds has different purposes too, right, Like, so sometimes

495
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: you know you're you are trying to catch someone. Other

496
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: times you're trying you want them to know you're there,

497
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: right because you're trying to make it so difficult for

498
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: them to do their job. Well, yeah, Well, in the

499
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: more days you go get your coffee at a a m.

500
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: And then go buy your paper at nine a m.

501
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: And go buy milk and eggs at the store, the

502
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: more days you do the exact same damn thing. Those

503
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: guys are gonna be like, this fucking dude is the

504
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: most boring person in the world. I'm not following make

505
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: the boss me. The key to that is you got

506
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: to know what your status is. You have to know

507
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: what the which day they're there in, which day there,

508
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: and at any point in that pattern, if you your

509
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: sure you're not you're sure you're not you're sure you're

510
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: not covered, and then all of a sudden you're like,

511
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure to paying where you are. That's

512
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: where you just break off home. Yeah. Maybe as soon

513
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: as there's that you can't take me, you seem to

514
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: me so like in our conversations and stuff like, that's

515
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: the stuff that that's it's me because because I didn't

516
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: work in that context me, it's like I couldn't go

517
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: home and just pack my bag and be like, okay,

518
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: well I'm quitting my job in my life here and

519
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: going home. I guess working on Starbucks the day. Yeah, yeah,

520
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: yeah for sure. But you know, like and I because

521
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: I didn't have to deal with I didn't have to

522
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: deal with national little guys follow me, it would just

523
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: be some ship that works for an overnice. Probably it's different,

524
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: but you know what, it's the same fun event ship.

525
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't necessarily just

526
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: take a weird two hour room at home. There had

527
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: to be a reason. I was taking a two hour

528
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: root home. That's the home, so you have to have

529
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: a reason. Yeah, there can't be a weird route. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

530
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: why is this guy doing this? If it's a weird route,

531
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: then you're done. You're yeah, Jack, That gave him the

532
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: answer to the question. I would have some I went

533
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: all the way over two hours out of the way

534
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: because I really had to buy this type of soy

535
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: sauce from one location. I had to buy it from Jason.

536
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Speaking to the like psychology behind some of them, I

537
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: think the personalities involved, like you had told me some

538
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: stories in the past of that, you know, like the crusty,

539
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: bold case officers working in some difficult parts of the

540
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: world where some dude like KGB guy will like slide

541
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: them with somebody who might may not be their wife,

542
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: and you know they'll look right out of God. I

543
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: don't give a fun grow And I mean I think

544
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: that's a real like alpha dog personality and to be

545
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: able to operate in those kind of environments. It's one

546
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: of my training officers. He you know, talking with the

547
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: soul story he was in in this God. So he's, uh,

548
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: I want to see he admited a car wash or

549
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: or something like that. And he's while he's there, he's

550
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: approached one of these guys and he just hand him

551
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: some pictures. Don't say it works to him, opens it

552
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: up and as a guy in these pictures, uh, doing

553
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: this thing that could have been It wasn't, but if

554
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: you looked at it, you would have thought it was him.

555
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: And he looked at it. In this case, he said,

556
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: first of all, I know what you're trying to do.

557
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: Second ball, take a look at me. Jing stinks sleary

558
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: as ugly as me. It's gonna be with a woman

559
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: like that, and have my wife believe it. Gave it

560
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: back some watchway another I who was an actually good

561
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: friend of this training officers in a restaurant or a diner.

562
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: Guys come, they box him in slide pictures across and uh,

563
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: this time it was him, and he looked at it

564
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: and said, I don't can tell. He's like, I'll call

565
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: her right now and just push his way. I thought, yeah,

566
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: it's all about like you said, maintain the profile and

567
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: that confidence. What is it the you know, stick to

568
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: your story, stick to your store, and you gotta stick

569
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: to your guns. Yeah no, no, it's a it's a

570
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: it's a deny everything actually rise. Yeah, yeah, it just

571
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: have to because as soon as you and it goes

572
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: back to the psychological, as soon as they see that crack,

573
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: that oh ship, it's an indicating there's that exactly. I

574
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: mean you can't ever asport that at the chase officer.

575
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: You gotta put on the face. Yep, exactly. You didn't

576
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: sweat all you want. Once you get in the car

577
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: back to them, you could have a nervous bread Again,

578
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: you can't get off stage. But when you're on stage,

579
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: so I know, nothing phases you, nothing shakes you. Absolutely,

580
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: you never blamed him whatever. And I actually were instructors

581
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: together for a little while, and so this is in

582
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: a training environment, but to get people to that place,

583
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: I was telling a story earlier. I had one of

584
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: the instructors say, I need your help with role playing.

585
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: So what we set up is he was getting his

586
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: students used to having these meetings and trying to keep

587
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: the straight face and not letting anything phase him. So

588
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: this is several years ago. When I roll in and

589
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: the hooker heels and the whole thing of like, sit down,

590
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: slang next to my guy. I'm like, I want my money.

591
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: You see their faces go why you bright? And the

592
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: whole thing was throwing a kink into the works of

593
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: I was his ex wife and I had found him.

594
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: Who are these guys? You have time to have lunch.

595
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean I went off on him and freaking out.

596
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: But so that's in a training environment. You have to

597
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: do this in the real world right where you never

598
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: dropped that way. I mean, you gotta look. You gotta

599
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: deal with everything, including things that are completely fringing virus.

600
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: Right talking about my wife, she's doing a car pick up.

601
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: So she's rolling out to pick up an asset and

602
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: picking a drop around the car. She's in a country,

603
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: a third world country, believed at that. She pulls up

604
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: the door, dude jumps in accelerates. In this city, there

605
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: are giant hawks that rolling around the streets. Haug walks

606
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: in front of the car. And this is the middle

607
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: of the night. It's three o'clock. More him, it's a

608
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: pitch black there no street life. She didn't see the hawk.

609
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: She celebrate get off. There's a loud thump. There's clearly

610
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: something stuck under the car, and it is now squealing

611
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: that you can hear, just like like it's a dinosaur,

612
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: so loud and obviously she's not stopping right here, we're

613
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: on the X. She goes like a midle, makes like

614
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: four turns with the hogs. The asset is having an

615
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: emotional breakdown because basically they've turned on a pig sire

616
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: and drinks some kind of the seats. Stops the car

617
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: and now it's just making Now, I guess I got

618
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: a dead hog or critically wounded hogs stuck in her

619
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: my car. What's the plan? I don't remember this card

620
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: from training, nobody can train. Stops the car, the car

621
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: rocks back and four thumps. Hog gets out from murdy

622
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: the car and walks off, unfazed. And don't he was dragged.

623
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: That's a tough And she's got to look at the

624
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: st and say, okay, I'm glad you passed that little

625
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: time you keep that's right. So we gotta met the

626
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: gyp absolutely. So something that happened with me was and

627
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: it was in the training exercise speaks to it kind

628
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: of goes back to the recruitment piece a little bit

629
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: when someone asked, what do I need to be able

630
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: to do this? So one of the things you need

631
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: to have is an even temperament. So with me, anybody

632
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: knows who knows, I'm very, very easy going. We will

633
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: joke about all kinds of things, brace politics, whatever it is,

634
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. So I was sitting in this training exercise

635
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: across from the the brold player and we had had

636
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: a series of meetings up to the recruitment and you know,

637
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: you know how it goes at the end, you know,

638
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: you find out that they have a certain bubble of

639
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: wine that they're like with whatever it is, you bring

640
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: him a gift party. So I bought, you know, I've

641
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: done my homework, went out with my little penny money

642
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: that they gave us, got my babbla line, went through

643
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: the whole spiel, given the bottle of wine, and he

644
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: pauses and he says, boy, what makes you think I

645
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: want to do this? Boom what little hair I have

646
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: on the back of my neck went up. So I was,

647
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, went through my backtracking and you know, reaffirming,

648
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: you know everything, and he called me boy. Two more

649
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: times by the time he finally agreed after playing this

650
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: game with me. Later on in our brief he told

651
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: me my knuckles were right because I was ready to

652
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: come into the chair and just strangle him on the spot.

653
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: But it was a combination of my temperament and the

654
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: fact that I wanted to get through this. I wanted

655
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: to pass this. So, you know, we talked about psychological

656
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: how these things happen, you know, are the effects that

657
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: they have. I've always been like that, but going through

658
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: that training and going through the rail world stuff that

659
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: I've done has to strengthened that that much more that

660
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: if I'm in a store somewhere and someone decides they

661
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: want to run their mouth about my reader's jersey, which

662
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: got help them. But um, you know, or orders try

663
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: to come true true. Yeah, so that or or race

664
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Um, I'm able to pull on that,

665
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: not consciously, but I'm able to pull on that training.

666
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: I've had that psychological background, you know, that strength, and

667
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: I've had to pull on that to just let it go. Um.

668
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: So I guess my point what I'm trying to say

669
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: is we're talking about PTSD that came up. I've never

670
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: heard PTSD. In the intelligence world, you hear the military

671
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: all the time and world here, and you think about

672
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: how it manifests itself. Let's just use the letters PTSD.

673
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: In the military world, most people on the streets thinking

674
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: when you ask him about that, they'll think homelessness, drugs,

675
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: a crime, whatever it is. But for us in the

676
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: intelligence world, PTSD. For me, I've seen it manifests itself

677
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: in the habits that we just talked about, those things,

678
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: those stressors quote to speak, that stay with us and

679
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: where we have this dialot back and be like, I'm

680
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: getting a little crazy about I didn't you know in

681
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: Virginia right now, I'm not in Uzbekistan, you know. So yeah, so,

682
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: so I'm glad you brought that up because it all

683
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: relations to this. So you brought up the Raiders and

684
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: you're like, all raiders are raidors um because the sick

685
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: that's a little more than I heard was a fan

686
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: and ikay, so I'll I think I'll do you one

687
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: better than that. And related to this, PTSD, I don't

688
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: give a funk about football. I don't give a single

689
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: funk about football. And in this country, if you're a

690
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: bar on Sunday on Monday or any other damn day

691
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: of the week that a football game is on. Somebody's like, Hey,

692
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: who's supporting these guys? Can't dine in a fire? I

693
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: don't care. It doesn't Now I'm mean because I don't

694
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: like whoever it is you like, and I don't like

695
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: whoever you like or whoever you like. Now I'm this

696
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: fucking weirdo that does not like football. Let's get to

697
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: the PTSD. So my brain got a lot of weird quirks,

698
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: and I've got stress sometimes in my life, and I've

699
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: come to realizing myself or understanding myself that what that

700
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: is is a is a misplaced element of context. And

701
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: so when I have spent the majority of my adult

702
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: life in a constant overseas footing and I'm not ripping

703
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: out for six months and coming back or whatever coming back,

704
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm in a country for five years. I got weeks

705
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: and months without speaking to another native speaker, which is

706
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: why I ran um. So I come back and I

707
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: realized that I'm I'm out of context because of my

708
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: psychological depensities, because of the skill sets of tradecraft or

709
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: whatever that is now so ingrained. It's hell. Visual you

710
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: got to say stuff like, oh yeah, second nature, and

711
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it's nature. There's not even a second

712
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: there's not a fucking hierarchy of Nature's here. That's the nature.

713
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: And it's so like for me, I'll come back and

714
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: like being a foreign country and be being so isolated,

715
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: where like I want to have a case offices I'm

716
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: working with. I don't have like a collection manager I

717
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: talked to. I don't have somebody doing my payroll or

718
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: some ship, you know. So like the PTSD for me,

719
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it post. I would call it traumatic,

720
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't call it spress, and I sure would

721
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: call it syndrome. But I clearly have this thing where

722
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm off trash sometimes probably often really and

723
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: and because of the even keel, I don't like pant

724
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: about it. I'm like, I don't like football should I'm

725
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: like like okay, and like so important is it just

726
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: it manifests itself. And I can't see this across the

727
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: board because I'm not I haven't done the intelligence work

728
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: for thirty years or whatever, and I wasn't in the

729
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: military for thirty years. So I think what I've observes

730
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: is it observed. Is it manifest itself differently from us.

731
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: I look, you know the sprint versus marathon, saying I

732
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: look at intelligence intelli career is more of a marathon

733
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: that stress a marathon. It's long term. So if it's

734
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: made not manifests itself, it's gonna probably manifilts itself sometimes

735
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: throughout your career. But you probably are not gonna have

736
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: a stellar career, sweety clean and then start drinking at

737
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: the end. It's gonna start, it stays. Whereas whereas a

738
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: military part of it, it's it's a sprint. You're being

739
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: forced to spring underdone, fire under you, you know that

740
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Those kind of stresses, they're they're in

741
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: the moment stresses where you don't have time to explode

742
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: until the end. And again that's not that's not across

743
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: the board. You know, I'm not an expert on it,

744
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: but I think it's it is a PTSD in the

745
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: stress part of it, it's just a marathon versus care

746
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: is it's a protracted stress. Yes, So can bring this

747
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: back to what I was talking about earlier, because this

748
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: is a good place to talk about it. Right, You

749
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: were saying, Okay, you're isolated, say sometimes the case offs

750
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: you work along. My issue was that I was always

751
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: surrounded by other people whose job it is to do this,

752
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: and so you can get in this echo chamber of

753
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: paranoia and manipulation and you're never supposed to do it

754
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: to the people you work with. But it's very hard

755
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: to stop. Right you come back in the office and

756
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: you've been lying, she'd steal it all day, forgotten country

757
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: over here. Very difficult to turn that off where you're

758
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: dealing with just regular people. So I don't know how

759
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: much you guys experienced that, but especially in the counterintelligence field,

760
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: it happens a zero. I mean the old ada, the

761
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: bullshit stops at the station door. It should, yeah, and

762
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: I've seen supposed to does about and if it doesn't,

763
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: that's that's the management. I mean, let's put it this way.

764
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: If you walk into your chief and you start trying

765
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: to use those skills in your chief, don't you go

766
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: back through the door, really fattys pastor than you came in.

767
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: That's gonna be for you don't have something. Don't ever

768
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: walk in thinking now I'm playing games at the boss.

769
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: That's not gonna But if anybody only outside wants to

770
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: get a picture of what that looks like. Look at handsome,

771
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 1: look at them. They've used all the skills for years,

772
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: doesn't as we're talking about Barb Hanson, right, So probably

773
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: the most notorious spy that we caught. He worked for

774
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: the FBI where he was FBI kind of intelligence, which

775
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: was the stasia who watches the washer, right, So his

776
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: job was to catch spies. It was very easy for

777
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: him to use the skills that he knew to keep

778
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: himself from being caught. Rick as for the rush and

779
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: get Yeah, yeah, I was working with Ricky when he

780
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: got arrested. At the moment it was raging. So you're

781
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: you're moving a thousand mills an hour and he's stressful

782
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: profession any temptation to start medic self medicating with movies

783
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: initiative on the subjects, it's you're kind of going down

784
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: the line of I thought about serious like what are

785
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: some of the biggest threats to our own in college

786
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: and community? Meaning like you're talking about some I mean

787
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: it's gonna be guys internally, who do you think you're

788
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: on your side? Are actually aren't working for us? You

789
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: know they're working against us, or they're the nationalities years up.

790
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 1: Other inadutal experiences would say the biggest threat is life.

791
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: It's it's really not walking into headquarters or walking in

792
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: your station. Those stressors are there's your job, that's what

793
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: you do. So some people actually that's their cass is

794
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: with the words today, Um, they love doing that stuff.

795
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure your kids exactly what it was. It's what

796
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: comes outside of that, finances, kids in school, uh you know,

797
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: um you get it, not getting long as your wife,

798
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. I think those are the threats

799
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: that start the wheel of uh of tress streaks. And

800
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: there's no doctrinal counteract for that ship. Now I do

801
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: know maybe that could be wrong here, but I want

802
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: to say, ah yeah, I think with him it was

803
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: more of a uh looks word I'm looking for a

804
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: doctrinal or he just didn't he thought what we were

805
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: doing that I talked about motivation, Yes, I go yea

806
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: for motivation, it's more of a thre yes. I mean,

807
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I would say that every asset. Honestly, the

808
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: biggest motivation is yeah, yeah, they want money, Yes, they

809
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: want money. They got they've got mistresses, they've got whatever,

810
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: the bottom line is I got a baby, Um, I

811
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm sufficient and recognized, rewarded right and

812
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: Aims always thought he should with the in the d

813
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: d O. He should have been the Boston operations. Instead,

814
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: he was a terminal GYS fourteen parts cornerships. He found

815
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: brought smartest guy in the world. Agent thought he's the

816
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: smartest guy in the world. Every time we find a

817
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: guy like that is disgruntled inside somebody else's organization, thinks

818
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: he should be the boss. What did you tell him?

819
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: You're right, you're absolutely every genius, absolutely, and I'm gonna

820
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: go do that recognition that you've never gotten. Anyway, if

821
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: you're flashing other motivations such as the idi lshic goal

822
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: or monitor whatever, you still have to have a little

823
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: bit of an heat. Was say, okay, I'll hand this

824
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: over to you. Well, and also everybody got rationalized to

825
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: themselves what they do and were the fact that the

826
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: fact that the guy you know, you give him, you

827
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 1: give him money and all he's end all about money,

828
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: but he doesn't want to hear about Yeah, what he

829
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: wants to hear about the contract racist suffing he talked

830
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: about earlier in Serviceable like sometimes today want to talk

831
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: to you because you're in America, and I know a

832
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: lot of times for me, like I mean, I wouldn't

833
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: give anybody money. I didn't kind of money myself, right,

834
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: But so it was it was an ego thing, like

835
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: I'm hanging out in this bar with this American guy

836
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: and people see me hanging out with this dude. Sometimes

837
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: it's bad, but in my case because yeah, visas ego,

838
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: and like now he feels important because I'm like asking

839
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: him questions about his life, like you know, his family

840
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: doesn't even ask those questions or whatever. It is. So

841
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: so definitely I think when I'm playing I used to

842
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: go out playing Devil, maybe that's not the right idea,

843
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: like you know, spiritual religious way to put that. Like

844
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: when I was playing Devil, that crack right there, you know,

845
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: like to crack him in the face, right It It

846
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: was it was always generally ship like ego because you're

847
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: dealing with it like a psychological for pensity of an individual.

848
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: If you catch a guy like if I was dealing

849
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: with a guy who was just a hundred ten percent

850
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: into whatever industry was I was trying to address, um,

851
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: I mean, well, bringing ego up as a number way.

852
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: It's the most supportantly I think we all know, maybe

853
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: for the viewers who don't know, Okay, le we talk

854
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: about money, that's the motivation thing. So it's monetary, it's ideology,

855
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: it's compromise, its ego, But all of those feed it's

856
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: ego regardless, because I'm going to feed your ego with

857
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: the money that I gave you. I'm going to feed

858
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: your ego by seeing yes, your ideology, yeah, with money.

859
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: With money, it's like I'm in financial with Jeparty, Mike

860
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: Goo is in the bottom of the barrel, and then

861
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: you're offering the money. But you're also likes. So you guys,

862
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: your job is to manipulate somebody who has that me

863
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: and then my job is to look for the guys

864
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: who have that issue and look for them who are

865
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: manipulate you know what. It's maybe I'll track so if

866
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: we are like branding me back, like as a dude

867
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: that's been on that side of the fence, you know,

868
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: like twenty year old, twenty three year old guy putting

869
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: in this paper work to get a T S s

870
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: c I. And also just or everybody who doesn't know

871
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: T S s C I is the highest level of

872
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: basic security clearance you gonna get in this is top secret,

873
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: special compartmentalized information. We would use the word compartmentalized and compartmentalization.

874
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: That's that you know that the ship doesn't come out

875
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: of that box, but you don't like CEO Browling is

876
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: a twenty two, twenty three year old dude. Yeah, an

877
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: I got you might ask to do molds, or you

878
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: might have that mustang at nineteen percent interest you got

879
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: when you were private or whatever it is. And it's like, okay,

880
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: so maybe work this out for a second. It's twenty

881
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: three year old dude in a uniform and you're thinking

882
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: about not giving me a clearance that will preclude me

883
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: from the job. It's going to allow me to pay

884
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: the ship off that you're telling me, I'm basically criminalized.

885
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: Four Now that's the uniform level of the bottom of barrel.

886
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I'm sure Jack has been the same situation,

887
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: and I'm with himself and the people he knew in

888
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: the system. It's like, yeah, your clearances in Jeffrey, not

889
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: necessarily because he's been responsible with your financial responsibilities. But

890
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: it's just like you're in that Welcome to America. Yeah,

891
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: It's funny though this ideology has gone over that. Right.

892
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: So in the Cold War so many years you saw

893
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: some ideology. Money was always so part of it. He

894
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: goes always going to be parted ideologist. Come back from

895
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: an inside of perspectors right here. So you have the

896
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: reality winners and that douchebag that I won't name because

897
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,959
Speaker 1: he just got off right. But and we spoke about

898
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: some podcast once that now they think they're doing the

899
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: right thing. It's the snow in the fest right. That's

900
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: interesting being known because the current ideology has like a

901
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: profound sense of nihilism involved. It's like, if you're a communist,

902
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: ostensibly you believe that you're making a better world, but

903
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: these people like it snowed in um some of the

904
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: others that we've seen in recent years. It's like, really,

905
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: there are ideologies. They're ring down. The state in the

906
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: United States crashing down. They're they're destructive powers. They're not

907
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: even ideological actors, per see. That's a good way. Yeah,

908
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and I agree with the nidolism part of that,

909
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: but I think that the first step in any process

910
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: of if they will be ideologically that they want to

911
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: make a better world and the obstacle for that world,

912
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: for that there, Mobolius, whatever the current United State, where

913
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: the current ideology is um like basic Sapper tactics, as

914
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: your tactics are going to be that I need to

915
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: remove that obstacle. So I can't go out and make

916
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: a better world. I can't facilitate this movement to this

917
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: better world without first we're moving, we're finding a way

918
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: around that obstacle. But when it comes to ideology, you

919
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: can't go around the outer way. It's exactly the seems

920
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: like the Caliphatic movement in the Middle East or elsewhere

921
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: in that world there, you cannot go around the obstacle.

922
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: The obstacle must absolutely one and can absolutely be removed.

923
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: You can't even neutralize. Has to be removed. To bring

924
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: all of this back to the same psychological thing that

925
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: you're talking about, that's the adega of it is our

926
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: job one recruiting other people is to recruit them to

927
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: do the thing that we would want to string somebody

928
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: up for doing, for committing treason in our own country.

929
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: But you're convincing them to believe in you. You're making

930
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: the world a better place by helping me and maybe

931
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: all the different reasons that you might be motivated to

932
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: do so that's curaging me too. And on top of that,

933
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: while you're doing that, you have to get them to

934
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 1: take point. Yeah, it's not the recruitment. And unless you say,

935
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: let's safe, yeah, and they make it safe a thousand years.

936
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't must your money. I don't must your money

937
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna take to get them to take eyes not

938
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: taking your money. He's not he's not only he's not

939
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: going to be your friend. Yeah, that's that's exactly none. Friend,

940
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: he's your friend. That's not your ask. Don't come back

941
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: and tell me you recruit. Absolutely so. But that you're

942
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,919
Speaker 1: talking about the fundament the essence to trade, but which

943
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: I sub wished now is exactly right. It's you're asking

944
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: this guy or this woman to commit treas right, that's

945
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: what they're doing now. Okay, but be true, I mean

946
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: to put it in the sharpest term. Down. Maybe they're

947
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: inside all KaiA, maybe it's not a national but the

948
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: point is there. They are betraying their group, their friends, organization,

949
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: doing something for which they will be at least imprisoned,

950
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: if not tortured to death if caught. And they are

951
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: betraying the confidences were straight up. That's the gig, that's

952
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: the whole, which is why sometimes the Russians are better

953
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: than we are at this because they don't play games

954
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: about having to think of themselves in terms of wearing

955
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: away hat and an applefier. They just face it straight up.

956
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: My job is the map you're braining, figure out where

957
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 1: the buttons are. Push whatever buttons I get to push.

958
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 1: Make you betray every confidence you have for the benefit

959
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: of That's right. But I think we know everybody. I'm

960
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: sure there's a case officer. All right. If you guys

961
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: enjoyed that and I left you wanting some more, there's

962
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,439
Speaker 1: a lot more to be heard, a lot so spec

963
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: ops channel dot com if you want to hear the

964
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: rest of that inside the team room. Uh. We will

965
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: be back on Friday with a new episode, hopefully in

966
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: the studio because I haven't been there today, but there's

967
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: still construction to be done, and I really would like

968
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: to be back in there because we have some great guests,

969
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: including in studio guests. Uh, and I don't want to

970
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: have to postpone that type of stuff. So fingers crossed,

971
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: I'll be back there, and I'm about to be on

972
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: my way to see the Smashing Pumpkins with my friends

973
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: Scott who came up with me in radio at w

974
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: r h U Half University, and it's like the biggest

975
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins fan. He's already been to the show that

976
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 1: they did at legan Son. So hopefully it's a great time.

977
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure it will be, and I'll getch you guys

978
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 1: next episode and follow us is always at soft rep Radio.

979
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self Rep Radio. New episodes up

980
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Friday for all of the great content

981
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: from our veteran journalists. Join us and become a team

982
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: room member today at soft rep dot com. Follow the

983
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: show on Instagram and Twitter at self rep Radio, and

984
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: be sure to also check out the Power of Thought

985
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal Sniper

986
00:54:47,280 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: instructor Brandon Webb wo