1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: Text with Technology with tech Stuff from hastaff works dot com. 2 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I am your host, 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, wishing you a happy Valentine's Day. That's when 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: this episode is originally airing February eighteen, and because it's 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: publishing on Valentine's Day, and because I love tech, this 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: is my Valentine to Tech. Although, to be more specific, 7 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: I thought it would be fun to look at an 8 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: app designed to connect people with the possibility of romance 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: in their near future. I'm talking about Tender. But first 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: I thought I would start all this off by actually 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: relaying a story to you guys about myself. Now, I 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: have never really used Tinder, because I've been a married 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: man for longer than Tinder has been around. I did 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: download Tinder, and, as I was explaining to my super 15 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: producer Ramsey just a minute ago, uh, I actually called 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: up my wife as soon as I downloaded it to 17 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: let her know, Hey, sweetie, I'm doing an episode about Tinder. 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: So I downloaded Tinder. Please don't get mad or divorce me. 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: I haven't really used it, but I did download it 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: in the interest of, you know, really exploring what this 21 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: whole topic is about. But I do have a history 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: with technology and falling in love. See when I was 23 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: in college, nearly two decades before Tinder would become a reality, 24 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: the Web was just starting to become a thing. At 25 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: that time. In fact, I was Internet savvy. I was 26 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: using the Internet on a regular basis, but I had 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: very little interest in the Web at that time. That 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: was a brand new element to the Internet. And sure, 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: the Web had graphics and could present things in a 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: way that didn't make it look like it was just 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 1: big blocks of text, which is the way most other 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: Internet tools presented information. Wasn't very attractive. It was really 33 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: data heavy and probably appealed more to computer scientists than 34 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: anyone else. But that's how I got used to the Internet. 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: And the Web was also kind of slow and cumbersome. 36 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: It took a really long time for pictures to download 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: on the Web at that point, so to me, it 38 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 1: just seemed like it was a waste of time. You're 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: you're waiting a minute and a half for something to load. Nope, 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: give me a good tell net client. Any day of 41 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: the week, I would log onto tell net based chat 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: rooms and there I would tell jokes to people. I'd 43 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: get into debates, and occasionally I would feed the trolls 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: because I was young and stupid. Things are very different 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: now because now I'm old and stupid. But anyway, I 46 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: guess it would be good to explain what telling it is, 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: just in case you are not familiar with it. It 48 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: is a network protocol, and a protocol just means it's 49 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: really a set of rules that a technology follows in 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: order for things to work, so that this particular protocol 51 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: allows you to log onto another computer that is connected 52 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: to the same network your computer is on. So it 53 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the Internet, it can be an intranet. 54 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: The Internet's construction, however, meant that any computer connected to 55 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: it could act as a tell net server if you 56 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: wanted it to, and users on their computers would be 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: called clients in this relationship, and the clients would log 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: onto servers through tell net. That's was That was the 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: set of rules that would connect the two, and the 60 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: computers would run software that turned them into virtual terminals 61 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: for that server. So it's like you're accessing this distant 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: computer using your actual physical computer right in front of you. 63 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: So your your physical computer is a window into this 64 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: distant computer. And you could do a lot of different 65 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: stuff this way, So it's not just like it was 66 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: used for games or chat rooms, but that's what I 67 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: was using it for. I was using it to access 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: chat rooms and games and games like multi user dungeons, 69 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: things like that. The chat room would be hosted on 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: one of those server computers, and by using telling that 71 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 1: I could remotely log into that computer under a user 72 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: account and chat away. Now, typically the way this works 73 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: is you would log in and you would choose a handle, 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: and some of the chat rooms would even allow you 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: to password protect the handle, so that way you could 76 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: register a handle so that it was only yours and 77 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: anytime you saw someone with that name popping up in 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: a chat room, you knew who that belonged to, or 79 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: at least you knew the personality that belonged to. Uh. 80 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: Some chat rooms didn't have that, which meant that you 81 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: might show up and find out that your handle has 82 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: already taken. If it was something that was really popular, 83 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: I didn't tend to go to those, and one day 84 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I found myself on one of these chat rooms chatting 85 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: with a young woman who had charmed me right away 86 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: because she recognized that the handle I was using was 87 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: a reference to classic literature. Specifically, there was a reference 88 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: to one of Victor Hugo's novels, of course, the infamous 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: Les Miserable. And it turned out this particular young woman 90 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: had studied French extensively and even worked at the French 91 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: embassy in Washington, d C. We started chatting for a while, 92 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: and we found ourselves really enjoying each other's virtual company. 93 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: And this continued for quite some time, and eventually our 94 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: chat room conversations gave way to long distance phone calls, 95 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: because back in those days, long distance was still a thing. 96 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: You had to have actually paid to have a phone 97 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: call that was long distance. And eventually this culminated with 98 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: the young woman taking a big chance, and she took 99 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: a train ride down the Eastern seaboard in order to 100 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: visit me. And I was smitten, and for some reason, 101 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: so was she. And that's how I met my wife, 102 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,119 Speaker 1: and we've been married for twenty years now. In fact, 103 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: this fall, it will be twenty one years now. I 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: tell that story to illustrate how technology can foster connections 105 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: between people who otherwise might never have had the chance 106 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: to even know that the other person existed. Let alone 107 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: fall in love. But in our case, the tech was 108 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: just a conduit for conversations. It wasn't intended specifically to 109 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: create these sort of relationships. So what about a technology 110 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: that has been built to do that From the ground up. 111 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: It was all meant to get Cupid's arrow to do 112 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: the whammy on a couple of would be lovers. And 113 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: that's why we're gonna talk about the story of Tender. Now. 114 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: I wish I could say the story I'm going to 115 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: tell you is just filled with sweetness and flowers and 116 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: chocolates and be dovey stuff, But it's also filled with 117 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: some really complicated corporate relationships, a lot of controversy, some 118 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: allegations of sexual harassment, and some weird maneuvers at the 119 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: executive leadership level that can get a bit confusing at times. 120 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 1: But let's begin at the beginning. And the story behind 121 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: Tinder is actually a bit murky because there were a 122 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: lot of people involved early on with the project, some 123 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: of whom would later be acknowledged as co founders of 124 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: the company and some of whom would not be, and 125 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: in at least one case, that contributed to some major 126 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: problems for Tinder. Further down, the road. Now, one person 127 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: who was certainly a co founder was Sean Rad. Rad 128 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: grew up in Los Angeles. He attended private high school 129 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: where his path would cross with another person who would 130 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: become important to Tinder. That would be Justin Matine. And 131 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: then Sean Rad would go on to enroll at the 132 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: University of Southern California. Really he was studying business development, 133 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: essentially a course in how to be an entrepreneur. While 134 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: at USC, Rad ended up running into Justin Mateen again, 135 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: the same guy he had kind of crossed paths within 136 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: high school, and they took a math class in two 137 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: thousand four and it was in that class where they 138 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: hit it off. They became best friends. Now, while Goal 139 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: going to college, Rad and Matteen would work on projects 140 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: outside of its side gigs. They would have these side 141 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: businesses they were trying to develop partly as part of 142 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: their studies. And by projects i'm talking about like real 143 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: startup companies. Rad's first business was one called or gou 144 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: O r g o O. It was a communications platform 145 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: that combined elements of email and instant messaging into a 146 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: single service. And it didn't exactly just burst out of 147 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: the gate. In two thousand four, they got a lot 148 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: of interest. There were more than a million people who 149 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: had signed up to be notified when the service would 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: go online, and by two thousand and eight it was 151 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: still in pre release mode. Ultimately, according to Rad in 152 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: an article in Business Insider, it got quote wrapped up 153 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: in some IP issues with another company and unfortunately had 154 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: to shut down end quote. But the idea itself wasn't 155 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: at fault necessarily. Now, both Rad and Mattine continued to 156 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: work on projects as they attended USC In two thousand 157 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: and seven, Rad convinced Matine to give up his beloved 158 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: BlackBerry phone and switched to an iPhone. Remember, the iPhone 159 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: was brand new in that time, but Rad saw that 160 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: the iPhone was going to usher in a new era 161 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: of computing, computing, and and and a little bit later, 162 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: he became convinced that mobile devices would be the evolution 163 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: of computing and more people wouldn't be moving away from 164 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: classic desktop and laptop machines. In fact, he went so 165 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: far as to say that mobile devices would completely eradicate 166 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: traditional computers, which hasn't happened yet, but we certainly have 167 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: seen the mobile devices have heavily impacted things like web traffic, 168 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: and more and more of a website's traffic tends to 169 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: come from mobile devices than from your traditional laptops and desktops. 170 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: In September two eight, at the beginning of his senior 171 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: year at USC, Rad dropped out of college. He was 172 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: going to focus completely on developing business ideas, and the 173 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: following year he launched a new service called ad dot 174 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: l Y or Addlee. Now, this was a platform upon 175 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: which celebrities could endorse products and services in return for 176 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: a fee. So the idea was that addle could connect 177 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: brands with celebrities. So let's say that you've got a 178 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: deodorant and you want Bruce Campbell to be the guy 179 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: talking about your deodorant, you might use a service like 180 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: ad Lee in order to get that connection. So, in 181 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: other words, Rad was all about connecting influencers with brands, 182 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: and it took a couple of years to really get moving. 183 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: And at that time, Rad was kind of fed up 184 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: with dealing with two things that I think would try 185 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: anyone's patients, and those two things would be celebrities and advertisers. 186 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: He decided he would sell his stake and then free 187 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: himself up to go do something else, and he would 188 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: get hired on at an incubator company towards the end 189 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: of two thousand eleven beginning of two thousand twelve. And 190 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: in case you're curious, an incubator company is essentially an 191 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: organization that exists to give people the opportunity to develop 192 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: and launch startup businesses. In return, typically the incubator company 193 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: has a portion of ownership in whatever businesses are launched 194 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: out of it. This particular incubator company was called Hatch Labs, 195 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: and hatch Labs is one small part of an enormous 196 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: empire overseen by a company called Interactive Core, which is 197 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: better known as I a C. And let's just talk 198 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: about I a C for a moment. I a C 199 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: started off as a shell corporation, which means it didn't 200 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: have any business operations of its own or real assets. 201 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: So this is a company that doesn't have office space, 202 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't have office supplies, doesn't have employees. Instead, shell 203 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: corporations can be used to do stuff like act in 204 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: place of another entity for the purposes of large business transactions, 205 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: which sometimes can be shady, But there are lots of 206 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: legal uses for shell corporations, so it's not just something 207 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: that is done to move money around. Sometimes there are 208 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 1: real legitimate purposes for it. For example, a startup might 209 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: use a shell corporation in order to raise funds. So 210 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: you might have a startup that has a fun quirky name, 211 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: but it might be a fun quirky name that isn't 212 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: really the best to get investors on board. So you 213 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: have a shell corporation that's really handling the fundraising aspect 214 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: of things, and all that money ends up going to 215 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: the startup company. In this case, this particular startup company 216 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: was created on behalf of the Home Shopping Network. It 217 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: was called Silver King Broadcasting Company and it was used 218 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: to purchase regional television stations in the nineteen eighties in 219 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: an effort to expand the Home Shopping networks viewer base. 220 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: Now that shell corporation began to buy up other properties, 221 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: and at first it was local TV stations, but then 222 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: it was a majority stake in the Home Shopping Network 223 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: itself and at that point it changed its name to 224 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: h s N Incorporated. The company continued buying up other properties, 225 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: mostly media companies, including a movie studio called Savoy Pictures 226 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: and that owned four Fox affiliate TV stations, and then 227 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: in the late nineties, the company bought Ticketmaster Group. Hs 228 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: N bought the TV side of Universal Studios all of 229 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: their television assets for about four billion dollars a suite 230 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: sum I would say. At that point, a company's name 231 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: changed to USA Networks Incorporated, and in the two thousand's 232 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: the company would end up selling off many of its 233 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: traditional TV production and broadcast companies and instead start to 234 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: invest in online acquisitions, web based acquisitions, and app based acquisitions. 235 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: And that brings our story in connection with some companies 236 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: I've talked about in recent episodes of Tech stuff like 237 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: the Vendi Universal Entertainment that was the company that ended 238 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: up taking over some of those divested TV properties. USA 239 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: Network purchased Expedia and a few other websites and online 240 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: companies and change its name a couple more times, ending 241 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: with Interactive Core in two thousand three and I a 242 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: C in two thousand four. Now I a C kept 243 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: acquiring other companies, including stuff like Hotwire, dot Com, lending Tree, 244 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: ask Jeeves, trip Advisor, College, Humor Dictionary, dot Com, Urban Spoon, 245 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: and more. So. It's almost like a shark. It was 246 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: made to eat other companies, or at least bring them 247 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: under the fold. Now, one of the properties I a 248 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: C owned was Match dot Com, which as a leading 249 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: online dating service, and that would also become the centerpiece 250 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: of a division within I a C. Called Match Group 251 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: ended up being kind of spun out as its own thing. 252 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: So you have the umbrella company I a C. And 253 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: a subsidiary company called match Group, which also oversees a 254 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: bunch of other smaller companies, including Match dot Com, and 255 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: ultimately this would become the home to Tinder. Tender would 256 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: become part of match Group, and Match Group would become 257 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: its own publicly traded company in two thousand fifteen. But 258 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: that's jumping ahead of the story at this point. The 259 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: important thing to note is that Rad went to work 260 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: for hatch Labs, the incubator owned by I a C. 261 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: And another company also had steak in hatch Labs. That 262 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: was Extreme Labs, which would later be acquired by a 263 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: company called Pivotal in two thousand thirteen. I told you 264 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: this was going to get complicated. So the reason it's 265 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: important to talk about all those companies behind hatch Labs 266 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: is that they had a stake of ownership in the 267 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: businesses that launched out of the incubator. So it's not 268 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: just hey, these two big companies own this place and 269 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: Tender came out of that place. It's these companies not 270 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: only gave Tender a place to develop the app, but 271 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: also they owned part of the business. Now, Rad's first 272 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: gig over at Hatched Labs was to work on a 273 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: location based service, an app called Cardify c A R 274 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: D I F Y that was sort of a customer 275 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: loyalty program that was location based, kind of like a 276 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: punch card you would get for buying coffee at that 277 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: cool place where they draw the cute bird in the phone. 278 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: I love that place anyway. Cardify was all about working 279 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: with smartphones to leverage their ability to tie a person 280 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: to a general location. Now, this was in two thousand eleven, 281 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: when location based services were really just starting to take off. 282 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: So Rad would end up working with a guy named 283 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: Jonathan Baddeen on this project, and Baden would on to 284 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: become another important person in the birth of Tender. Meanwhile, 285 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: Justin Mattine had co developed a couple of companies called 286 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: cover Canvas and Site Canvas, so he was busy as well. 287 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: He was not part of Hatched Labs at this point, 288 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: but he was still friends with Seawan Rad. In early 289 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, hatch Labs had a hackathon, which is 290 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: an event in which creators are given time and resources 291 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: to put together something you now. Sean Rad was paired 292 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: with another guy named Joe Munrios, a developer who had 293 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: been looking at an app that could match people to 294 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: local businesses that might interest them. So, in other words, 295 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: if you're walking down the street and you've got a 296 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: history of buying hats and there's a really cool hat shop, 297 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: you might get a little notification saying, hey, hats are 298 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: us is right around the corner. Maybe you should stick 299 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: your head in there and take it out with a 300 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: hat on it. Well, together, Rad and Munio's started to 301 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: brainstorm what they were gonna do for this hackathon, and 302 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: they thought they might create a dating app does signed 303 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: to match people up, and they decided to put together 304 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: a rough prototype, which was the earliest build of what 305 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: would eventually become Tender. I'll talk a little bit about 306 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: what that prototype was and their ideas behind it in 307 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: just a minute, but first let's take a quick break 308 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. Al Right, around this time, the 309 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: app still didn't have a name, and it certainly wasn't 310 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: gonna be called Tender. The working name was Matchbox, and 311 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: according to a presentation deck that Rad and Munio's put 312 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: together in February twelve, which I found on a lengthy 313 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: tech Crunch article, it was subtitled The Flirting Game, and 314 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,239 Speaker 1: the presentation suggested that Matchbox could take the place of 315 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: the singles experience of going to bars to meet people. 316 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: So instead of trying to muster up the courage to 317 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: approach a stranger in a bar and potentially face rejection 318 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: right then and there, the app would allow people with 319 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: then the general area to view profile photos of each other, 320 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: and at that point you could express interest in the 321 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: photo or you could choose to dismiss it to pass 322 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: on it. Though there was no swiping at this stage, 323 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: that was not part of the app yet. You just 324 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: would use a little buttons on the app to indicate 325 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: whether you were interested or now you're not so interested 326 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: in that person. If both parties showed interest in each other, 327 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: the app would then allow them to send messages back 328 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: and forth, but if one of the two did not 329 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: express interest, communication channels would remain closed, and in fact, 330 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: the person who didn't say anything didn't accept or didn't 331 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: swipe right, as the case would be later on, would 332 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: never even know about the second person, So it was 333 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: meant to only allow communication between people who had jointly 334 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: expressed interest in each other. According to the presentation, the 335 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: app would base location data off of WiFi signals rather 336 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: than GPS coordinates and thus be hyperlocal, and the app 337 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: could be designed to narrow searches based off of common 338 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: interests or friends that both parties might have in common. 339 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: Matchbox would become a project at Hatch Labs, although Sean 340 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: Rad was still officially working on Cardify, he just found 341 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: himself spending a lot of time thinking about this pet project, 342 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: then really focusing on Cardify, which he felt at that 343 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: point had pretty much gone as far as he could 344 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: take it before it would end up becoming an official app. Also, 345 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: they were really concerned with making this a gamified experience, 346 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: having this this sensation of playing a game where you're 347 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: choosing yes or no. This is kind of based off 348 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: of a website called hot or Not where you would 349 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: rate people's appearance based on a photo that was uploaded 350 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: to the site, and it gives you that really quick 351 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: feeling of I don't know pleasure for being able to 352 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: judge someone really on on the spot, just based upon 353 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: their appearance primarily, and they thought that by gamifying this 354 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: it would it would end up inspiring more engagement, and 355 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: if you were able to monetize that, whether by serving 356 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: ads up against it or some other method, then you 357 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: could make money off of this. So in March two 358 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, Jonathan Baden and Chris Golsinski would join Hatch 359 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: Labs and begin working on the design for Cardify, and 360 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: by extension, they joined the Matchbox team. They used a 361 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: workspace that was owned by Justin Mateen, and that's because 362 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: the Hatch Labs office that was in Los Angeles had 363 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: limited resources. Hatch Labs has a couple of different locations. 364 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: The one in New York was reportedly really really well 365 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: decked out, but the one in l A not so much. 366 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: So they decided to use a space that Justin Matteen had. 367 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: Even though Matine at this point was not still not 368 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: part of Hatch Labs, he was just Sean Rad's really 369 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: good friend, and so he let them have use of 370 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: the space as sort of a favor to two Sean. Now. 371 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: In May of two thousand twelve, Whitney Wolf would join 372 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: Hatch Labs and at some point between May and September 373 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, she would begin to work with the 374 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Cardify and Matchbox teams, starting with Cardify and then transitioning 375 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: over to Matchbox. As it turns out, she would play 376 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: a significant role in tenders history now. Sean Rad presented 377 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: Cardify to an event called tech Crunch Disrupt in New 378 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: York City, which is an event that helps fledgling startups 379 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: get more attention potentially investment support. Rad was hoping to 380 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: find some partners for the app and entice shop owners 381 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: to join the service because again, Cardify was a shop 382 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: loyalty program, so he needed the buy in of merchants 383 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: and vendors to create value for users. Otherwise, if you're 384 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: a user and you're signing up for the service and 385 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: no shopkeepers are on board, there's nothing to be loyal too. 386 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: So they also submitted Cardify to the iPhone app Store. 387 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: It was ready to go. Now is at this point 388 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: that they hit a little bit of a snarl. Apple's 389 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: app approval process is something that has always been to 390 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: some extent shrouded in mystery. Apple executives always say they 391 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: want to make sure that the apps in the iPhone 392 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: Store provide a good experience and are of value to 393 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: iPhone owners. App developers sometimes have a different point of 394 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: view on this. There have been complaints that sometimes work 395 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: can be rejected for seemingly arbitrary reasons, or sometimes without 396 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: any real reasoning at all, and it could be infuriating. 397 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes it feels like it just depends on what time 398 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: of day Apple is reviewing your app. Cardify was stuck 399 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: in an approvals process that was dragging on for a 400 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: few weeks and that was a bit too long for 401 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: Rad and his team. They wanted to get to work 402 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: on something else, so while they were waiting on Apple's approval, 403 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: they got to work seriously developing the matchbox app into 404 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: a working product. Around this same time, Hatch still needed 405 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: someone to help market Cardify to shop owners, and Hatch 406 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: would end up hiring two people as sales reps for Cardify, 407 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: and those two people were Whitney Wolf and Alexa Mattein. 408 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: Now Alexa is Justin Mattein's sister, and she was also 409 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: really good friends with Whitney Wolf. So depending upon whose 410 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: story you believe, because there are conflicting reports about all this, 411 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: Justin Matteine introduced both Whitney wolf and Alexa Matine to 412 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: his buddy Sean and suggested that maybe these women would 413 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: be great sales reps for Cardify. Now keep in mind 414 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: that at this time Justin was still not working in 415 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: any official capacity with the company. He was just really 416 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: good friends with Sean Rad. So Rad hires these two 417 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: women and they start hitting the road to land agreements, 418 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: either for Cardify or for Tender, depending upon which story 419 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: you're looking at. Rad ended up rejoining his team to 420 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: actually build out Matchbox, which of course evolves into Tender. Now. 421 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: Windy Wolfe later said that her time was really spent 422 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: marketing Matchbox, not Cardify, that she was going to these 423 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: different places and trying to talk up the app that 424 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: was still in development. Other accounts dispute that and say 425 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: there wasn't anything to market yet, that she was actually 426 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: still working on Cardify. But whatever the truth is, and 427 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what it is, I wasn't there. 428 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: One thing is certain, and that is that Matchbox was 429 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: going to need a name change because I a C. 430 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: Executives felt it was too close to their other property, 431 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: match dot Com. Remember that was like the jewel of 432 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: the match group. So it's a matchbox sounds too much 433 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: like match dot com. People are gonna think the two 434 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: things are connected, and really they're not. So it became 435 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: a hatch Labs project, an overall project for the entire 436 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: incubator company to come up with a new name for 437 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: Matchbox Now. Chris Golzinski had created a flame logo for Matchbox, 438 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: and everyone wanted to keep that. They liked the logo, 439 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: so they started spitballing ideas for names, and again there's 440 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: some disagreement about who originally proposed Tinder, but no matter 441 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: who was responsible for that name, it is what the 442 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: team chose as the new name for the service. And 443 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: one of the other key elements of Tinder, the thing 444 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: that people probably associate with it the most, is that 445 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: swipe right or swipe left gesture you would use when 446 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: looking at potential matches. So, in case you've never used 447 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: the app or heard how it works, when you open 448 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: it and you're browsing photos for people who are in 449 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: your area, you can choose to indicate your interest in 450 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: a person, or you can dismiss that option, and one 451 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: way to do that is with gestures of swiping so 452 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: if you swipe left, the person's photo is dismissed into 453 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: the ether and never seen again by you. Anyway, a 454 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 1: swipe to the right means, hey, this person interests me. 455 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind getting a chance to talk to them. 456 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: And if that person swipes right on your photo, then 457 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: you can message one another. That's when the communication channels 458 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: open up. Now, where did that notion come from to 459 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: use gestures instead of just controls on a screen? Again, 460 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: this is a matter of some disagreement, like a lot 461 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: of things with tenders past. Jonathan Badeen says he thought 462 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: of incorporating the gesture after he got all the shower 463 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: one morning and it was all steamed. His mirror was 464 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: all steamed up, and so he wiped his mirror in 465 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: one direction to clear away some steam. Then he looked 466 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: at himself, and then he wiped in the other direction, 467 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: and he thought eureka. But Chris Golzinski said that Bedean 468 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: really took the concept from another app that he had 469 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: worked on before joining the Matchbox team. That was a 470 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: flash cards app for a company called CHEG c H 471 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: E G G. Golzenski said he had suggested swiping should 472 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: be a gesture after he watched friends try to use 473 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: the app and those friends were just naturally trying to 474 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: swipe on the photo. Was unprompted and thought maybe we 475 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: should incorporate that into the actual service, But no matter 476 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: who came up with it, because again we don't know 477 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: the actual truth. The gesture ended up being one of 478 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: the sticky elements of Tender figuratively speaking, figuratively sticky, hopefully 479 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: not literally sticky, but it was a satisfying way to 480 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: interact with the service. Some people likinged it to Lauren 481 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: brick Ter's invention of pull to refresh. You know, where 482 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: you put your finger on the screen, you pull it 483 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: downward and it helps refresh the window that can be 484 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: found in numerous apps today, but it was It was 485 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: a revelation and user interface design, and people point to 486 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: that as being one of the really brilliant ideas in UI, 487 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: and it helped again increase the gamification of the experience. 488 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: It made it really fun to go through profiles. It 489 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: was effortless, it was quick, and it was satisfying to 490 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: find someone and then swipe right on their profile. It's 491 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: almost like looking at potential dates. Had an addictive element 492 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: to it something like Civilization Player might call just one 493 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: More Turn. Well. By August, the app had a soft 494 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: launch in the iPhone App Store, so It's pretty quiet 495 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: wasn't really lauded or anything, because they needed to try 496 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: and find a way to build up the user base 497 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: enough to really get the ball rolling. So Sean rad 498 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: at that point reached out to Justin Matein to lead 499 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: the marketing efforts for the app for the first couple 500 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: of months, and matteen joined the team first as a 501 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: contractor before becoming an official employee uh and when he did, 502 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: he would become the chief marketing officer for Tinder. According 503 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: to most stories I could find, one of Justin Mattine's 504 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: first moves was to send out text messages to his 505 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: contact list of friends and acquaintances asking them to download 506 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: the app, and he did the same with several other 507 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: members of the team. He said, hey, send out these messages. 508 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: We want to get people downloading this as soon as possible, 509 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: and then established the first few hundred people on Tinder. 510 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: Apparently he blasted or text blasted about three to five 511 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: hundred folks on that first night, and Justin Matine felt 512 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: that they should really target college populations with their app 513 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: because college students are interested in dating, and he thought, 514 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: if we can win them over, because they're gonna be 515 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: pretty discerning with experience, as if the experience isn't fun, 516 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: well know, because college students won't use it. But if 517 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: they do use it, we know that we've got something 518 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: that's going to appeal to a broad population. So he 519 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: brought Whitney Wolf and Alexi Matine over to the Tender 520 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: side over from Cardify again depending upon which account you read, 521 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: and at some point Justin Matine and Whitney Wolf began dating. 522 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: Wolf was hierarchically speaking, Matins subordinates, so this was problematic 523 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: from the beginning if a boss is dating an employee, 524 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: and that relationship would end up being the focus of 525 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: an extremely public and ugly battle in Tender's history. But 526 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: before all of that blew up, Mattine and his marketing 527 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: team worked on getting college students on board. Matein was 528 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: able to work with his younger brother to convince a 529 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: college student that her birthday party really should be converted 530 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: into a Tender promotional party, and she agreed because they 531 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: were gonna pour money into the party, and they also 532 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: threw a big party at Mateen's family home. They actually 533 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: bust students from USC to Mateen's parents house and they 534 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: had a big pool party with an inflatable slide and 535 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff and a big Tinder logo mounted 536 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: on the house itself. Entry to the party had one requirement, 537 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: you had to prove that you had downloaded the Tender 538 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: app to your smartphone. And the parties were a huge success. 539 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: Mateine had been throwing big parties for profits since his 540 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: college days. He had done this as sort of a 541 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: promotional thing, and he was really good at it, and 542 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: it got buzz going for the app, and the user 543 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: base grew as a result. Matteine would repeat this process 544 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: with other college campuses. Contacting fraternity and sorority houses is 545 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: an early point of entry and then encouraging adoption from there. 546 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: So he believed that if he could get influential members 547 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: of a community on board, he could more easily grow 548 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: the user base, and it turned out that this was true. 549 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: It also meant that for its first year, Tender was 550 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: almost exclusively used by college students. According to multiple sources, 551 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: nine of users in that first year were between the 552 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: ages of eighteen and twenty four. Tender incorporated in April 553 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, and by then it was clear the 554 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: app was going to be a huge success. It would 555 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: be a couple more years before they introduced any sort 556 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: of paid content to the app. They were generating revenue 557 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: mostly just through ads they were sharing, serving up ads 558 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: along with the experience, and that was how they would 559 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: supplement the uh the revenue for Tender or actually generate 560 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: the revenue for Tender at that point, and at this stage, 561 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: the focus was really mostly on bill ending out that 562 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: user base as much as possible before incorporating some other 563 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: methods to make money. So if you make Tinder a 564 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,959 Speaker 1: buzzworthy term and get as many people on it as 565 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: the service could handle, and you get them addicted, then 566 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: you can figure out how to really leverage that. I'll 567 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: talk about how they did that in just a minute, 568 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: but first let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor. 569 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: All right, let's go back to Tinder. At this time, 570 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, the rocky romance between Justin Matene and 571 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: Whitney Wolf was causing friction. To be gentle about it. 572 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: By most accounts, the two had a tumultuous breakup and 573 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: we're done dating each other. By early two thousand fourteen. Uh, 574 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: depends on who you ask. Some of them said that 575 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: things ended in some said by February, but certainly by 576 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: March things were over. And then Wolf would end up 577 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: filing a sexual harassment and sexual discrimination lawsuit against Tender, 578 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: naming Justin Mattine as the perpetrator, and she had some 579 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: screen captures of text messages that helps support her case. Now, 580 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: in addition to her complaints against Matteine, she claimed that 581 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: she was stripped of co founder status and that she 582 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: had earned that status at Tinder, which could constitute a 583 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: demotion and depending upon how the company handled it, it 584 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: could be a real legal hazard for them. There was 585 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: a really long piece on tech Crunch that went into 586 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: this whole ordeal, and it actually ended up questioning some 587 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: of her claims and cited anonymous sources that had a 588 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: different account of what happened. But Wolves attorney would respond 589 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: to that piece by stating that it was filled with 590 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: inaccuracies and reliance upon unreliable witnesses. Now, I was not there, 591 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: and I don't know anyone who was there, so I 592 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: really don't feel comfortable commenting on this. Uh, it seems 593 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: like it's too complicated a case, and I don't know 594 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: all the particulars, but what I can say is that 595 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: the content of the messages Mateine sent to Wolf, the 596 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: ones that she shared in her screen captures, is really 597 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: upsetting and definitely not appropriate communications between any two people, 598 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: let alone in the context of a boss subordinate relationship. 599 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: So there was definitely bad behavior going on there, at 600 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: least in those text messages they were They were not good, 601 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: and you can find them online if you really are curious, 602 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: but be warned there's some pretty awful stuff in there. 603 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: Sean Rad and Justin Matteine were friends who went way 604 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: way back, and still to this day, Rad considers Matine 605 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: one of his best friends. But these accusations were serious, 606 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: and Wolf was providing evidence that they were not entirely 607 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: without merit. So Tender suspended Justin Matteine and definitely in 608 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: June two and fourteen. He would later resign from his 609 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: position in September of two thousand fourteen. As for Wolf, 610 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: she and Tender settle her lawsuit out of court, and 611 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: then she went off and co founded a new company 612 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: called Bumble. Like Tender, Bumble lets you browse profiles and 613 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: select those that interest you. So again you can swipe 614 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: on different profiles and say, all right, this person is 615 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: attractive to me and this person is not. But unlike Tender, 616 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: Bumble puts the control into the hands of women who 617 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: are using the service, which obviously, this particular example I'm 618 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: going to give applies to heterosexual relationships, and that's where 619 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: Bumble really has gotten a lot of its focus. So 620 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: in a heterosexual matchup, the woman in the match has 621 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: the option to send a message to the man. So 622 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: the man's already swiped right, but he doesn't know anything 623 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: about the rest of that relationship. The woman swipes right, 624 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: she then has the opportunity to send a message to 625 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: the man, but the man would remain unaware of any 626 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: matches unless he saw an incoming message. So in that way, 627 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: women would have more time to decide whether or not 628 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: they wanted to act on their initial impression of a 629 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,280 Speaker 1: person or if they just wanted to let slip. Bumble 630 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: would go on to hire a lot of women on 631 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: the corporate side, so there are many women executives and 632 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: women engineers over at Bumble, and the company really became 633 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: an example of one that was working actively to give 634 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: women opportunities in the tech space as well as in 635 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: the dating world. Oh In a Chris Golsinski also left 636 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: Tinder for Bumble, so he joined that team as well. 637 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: Back to Tinder, the Matins scandal worried executives at I 638 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: a C. Who did not want to see their investment 639 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: crumple in the wake of bad publicity regarding the former 640 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: chief marketing officer. The app, though, had been doing incredibly 641 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: well in two thousand and fourteen before the scandal broke. 642 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: It received a ton of media attention after a snowboarder 643 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: named Jamie Anderson said that the app was gaining popularity 644 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: among Olympic competitors during the two thousand fourteen Winter Olympics. 645 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: The user base had changed as well. At that point, 646 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: college students now made up only air quotes fifty percent 647 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: of the users instead of ninety and in the spring, 648 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 1: often tender marked the occasion of making one billion matches, 649 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: not bad for a company that was embroiled in an 650 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: ugly behind the scenes controversy. Also in two thousand fourteen, 651 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: I a C. Bought off the outstanding stake in Tender 652 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: that had existed back in the hatch Labs days, and 653 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: the company moved into a new headquarters located in West Hollywood. 654 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,479 Speaker 1: There were about forty employees and ten thousand feet of 655 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: office space, and while the app hit one billion matches 656 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: in a soft launch in two thousand twelve to the 657 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: spring of two thousand fourteen, it only took a couple 658 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: more months for that number to double, so by the 659 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: summer of two thousand fourteen they had hit two billion matches. 660 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: The app was doing really well, but at the executive level, 661 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: I a C. Was still very much worried, so by 662 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: November two thousand fourteen, head Han Shows at I a 663 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: C made their well known unto Tinder, and Sean Rad 664 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: was forced to step aside as CEO. He would become 665 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: the president of Tinder, so he remained with the company, 666 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: but he no longer controlled it. This announcement was made 667 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: before I a C. Had actually found a suitable replacement, 668 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: so it kind of was effectively under Rad's guidance for 669 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: a while longer, but eventually I a C. Chose a 670 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: guy named Chris Payne, who had worked at companies like 671 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: Amazon and Microsoft. However, Payne ultimately was considered not a 672 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: good fit for Tender, and in two thousand fifteen they 673 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: got a new CEO, and by that I mean they 674 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: got an old CEO, and by that I mean Sean 675 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: Rad took over again. Yeah, Rad was removed a CEO, 676 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: served as president, and then was reinstated as CEO just 677 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: a few months later. The following year, in two thousand 678 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: and sixteen, Rad would step down as CEO again, but 679 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: this time by choice. He became the chairman of the 680 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: company and Greg Blatt, who had been the chairman of Tinder, 681 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: would switch places with Rad and become the new CEO. 682 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: Blatt was also the CEO of Match Group, which was 683 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: Tinder's parent company, and you'll remember Match Group was again 684 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: part of the I A C Empire, So yeah, it's 685 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: still complicated. Rad's new role over at the company is 686 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: to run an investment vehicle called Swipe Ventures. Swipe is 687 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: so important with Tinder. This would be more about acquisitions 688 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: and partnerships, so he was more about forming relationships and 689 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: acquiring other companies to make Tinder more robust. So back 690 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: to Tinder itself. In two thousand fifteen, the company introduced 691 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: Tinder Plus, which turned Tinder into a freemium app, which 692 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: meant it's free to use the basic functions of Tinder 693 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: it's ad supported, but it's free to use, but if 694 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: you pay just a little bit more or just a 695 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: little bit, you get access to some other features. For example, 696 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: the Tender Plus experience was ad free, and you could 697 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: also rewind, so you could reverse a decision. Whether that 698 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: was that you had dismissed someone and you suddenly thought, oh, 699 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: wait a minute, they were kind of cute, I would 700 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: like to swipe right, or you could dismiss someone you 701 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: had swiped right on and then you suddenly got cold 702 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: feet or a deep sense of regret that haunts you 703 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: to this very day. Well, you could reverse that. You 704 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: could also change your location using a feature called Passport 705 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: with Tinder Plus. This was handy if you were planning 706 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: on traveling somewhere like going on vacation, and you wanted 707 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: to see what the dating scene was like at that location. 708 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: Since Tinder is a location based service, typically you're restricted 709 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: to people who are actually in your same general location, 710 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: but this would open things up a bit. Maybe you're 711 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 1: going to travel in a week or two to some 712 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: place like some city. Maybe you're going on a business trip. Also, 713 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: I know I'm old, and I know I shouldn't put 714 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: any judgment about any of this, but you sorry, that's 715 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: maybe that's just the old married man talking there. Your 716 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: kids with your tender apps and your hookups arranged way 717 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: in advance. Tinder plus also allowed you to use super 718 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: likes at the tune of five per day. So as 719 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: super like sends the owner of the photo you just 720 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: fell for a notification that someone has sent a super 721 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: like on them, and there's a limited number per day, 722 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: so if you use it, it tells the person on 723 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: the other side, Hey, this this other person out there 724 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: thinks you're worth spending a limited super like on you. Uh. 725 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: This would just allow that person then to look at 726 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,479 Speaker 1: your profile and choose whether the swipe right or swipe left. 727 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: According to Tender, that increases the odds of engagement significantly. 728 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: So in other words, if you're just going through the 729 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: app and you're just swiping away, there's no guarantee that 730 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: the person on the other side of all of your 731 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: swipe rights will ever even see your photo, not even 732 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: giving you the chance to make a match. But using 733 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: the super like would increase those chances. Uh. Typically you 734 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 1: would remain unaware if someone had swiped around your profile 735 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: until you swiped right on them, but this was a 736 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: little way to send that notification and giving those more 737 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: of a chance for reciprocation. Later in two thousand seventeen, 738 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: Tender would introduce a new tiered kind of payments system 739 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: for Tender Gold. This was a kind of a an 740 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 1: additional premium service on top of Tender Plus, and included 741 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: such features like boosting your profile so that your image 742 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: would be served up more frequently in searches for about 743 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: half an hour, so for like thirty and It's you 744 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: would be a star Tender profile and show up on 745 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: more people's apps as they opened it up, kind of 746 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: pay to play baby, And it would also let you 747 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,760 Speaker 1: see anyone who had swiped right on your photo, meaning 748 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: you didn't have to operate in the dark. You could 749 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 1: actually go through those swipe rights and be super picky. 750 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: You could filter through them and not have to go 751 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: through all the trouble of doing all that exhausting swiping 752 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 1: on your own. Um. Of course, this is assuming that 753 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: you are of an attractive enough nature to have warranted 754 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: a lot of swipe rights in the first place. I'm 755 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: glad I'm married, because I am convinced that if I 756 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: weren't married and I was using Tinder. I would be 757 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: very upset at how infrequently people had swiped right on 758 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: my profile. Maybe that's just my insecurities talking. Luckily I 759 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about it. Ha ha. Married Later, 760 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: the company made the decision to offer this as a 761 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 1: t approach based upon user age. Tender Plus would cost 762 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: nine dollars ninety nine cents a month if you happen 763 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: to be thirty years old or younger. But if that 764 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: little gem on the palm of your hand goes dark, 765 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: it meant you would need to pay nineteen dollars in 766 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 1: ninety nine cents per month for the same service. Also, 767 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: hit me up if you understand the reference I just made, 768 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: because I would really be impressed anyway, This pricing struck 769 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: some people as being totally wrong. One of those people 770 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: was a guy named Alan Candelore, who said that by 771 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: charging two different amounts for the same service based solely 772 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: on a person's age, it amounted to age discrimination, and 773 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: he filed a lawsuit in California, which has the Unrust 774 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act and the Unfair Competition Law that protect 775 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: against such things. The case originally went to trial, and 776 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: initially things went in favor for Tender a judge ruled 777 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: that the practice did not constitute discrimination, but Kendalloure's lawyers 778 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: appealed this decision, and in an appeals court in two 779 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, like literally hours before I went into the studio, 780 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: the reaction was different. The appeals court made a very 781 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: specific conclusion, and I swear I am not making this up. 782 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to read their conclusion verbatim. It goes like this, 783 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: no matter what tenders market research may have shown about 784 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: the younger users relative income and willingness to pay for 785 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: the service as a group as compared to the older cohort, 786 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: some individuals will not fit this mold. Some older consumers 787 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: will be more budget constrained and less willing to pay 788 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: than some and the younger group. We conclude the discriminatory 789 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: pricing model, as alleged, violates the UNREACT and the u 790 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: c L to the extent it employs an arbitrary class 791 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: based generalization about older users income as a basis for 792 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: charging them more than younger users. Because nothing in the 793 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: complaints suggests that there is a strong public policy that 794 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: justifies the alleged discriminatory pricing, the trial court aired in 795 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: sustaining the demurer. Accordingly, we swipe left and reverse. And yes, 796 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 1: a judge actually said we swipe left. I want to 797 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: fist bump that judge. Tender continues to be an incredibly 798 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,959 Speaker 1: popular app for those looking for Mr. Or Mrs Wright, 799 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: or maybe just Mr and Mrs right now. According to Forbes, 800 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: the company's valuation is at a cool three billion dollars, 801 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: and according to a site called Business of Apps, it 802 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: also boasts the following statistics. The app is available in 803 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: more than forty languages, and these days it generates around 804 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: eight hundred million swipes a day and twelve million matches 805 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,879 Speaker 1: a day. A New York Times article stated the app 806 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,280 Speaker 1: as close to fifty million and users, with the average 807 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: person spending ninety minutes a day on the app. Esquire 808 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: held a survey with their readers about Tender and they 809 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: found out that six of the respondents use it as 810 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,360 Speaker 1: a way to relieve boredom rather than actually looking for 811 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: a special someone. And of those people are female. Oh, 812 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: and men swipe right about forty six percent of the time. 813 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: Women are more picky and only swipe right four percent 814 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 1: of the time. Interesting facts. I think now there's a 815 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 1: lot more I can say about tender, and honestly, again, 816 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: I'm at an age where the whole thing seems like 817 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,879 Speaker 1: witchcraft to me, But I get its appeal. I get 818 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: the gamification aspect of it. I get the fact that 819 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,320 Speaker 1: you can very quickly go through a lot of different 820 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: potential profiles and express interest. There's definitely part of me 821 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: that feels like it's a little shallow to judge people 822 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: simply on photos, especially since photos can be an unrealistic 823 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 1: representation of what a person is all about. But at 824 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: the same time, I have to admit, in most real 825 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: world situations, people's appearances end up being the first thing 826 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: that is a an element of attraction between two folks, 827 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: at least upon first meeting. It. Maybe that you would 828 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: more likely find a better, more stable relationship by becoming 829 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,239 Speaker 1: friends with someone first before trying to segue into a 830 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: romantic relationship, but there's no guaranteed route of success one 831 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: way or the other. So while I am an old 832 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,760 Speaker 1: fogy and tender still frightens and confuses me, I don't 833 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,760 Speaker 1: judge anybody for making use of the up and trying 834 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 1: to find love in this crazy world. Help you, guys, 835 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 1: are able to express your emotions and affections for each 836 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,400 Speaker 1: other on this day, Valentine's Day, the day that we 837 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: have been told by giant corporate rations, is the appropriate 838 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,480 Speaker 1: day for us to at least give a cursory nod 839 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: of affection to those that mean a lot to us. Man, 840 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,839 Speaker 1: I'm getting cynical. I need to go out and buy 841 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,320 Speaker 1: some flowers from my wife, so I'm gonna go do that. Meanwhile, 842 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,200 Speaker 1: if you guys have any suggestions for future topics I 843 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 1: should cover on this show, let me know. You can 844 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: send me a message on email. The address I used 845 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,439 Speaker 1: for the show is tech Stuff at how stuff works 846 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,520 Speaker 1: dot com, or you can drop me a line on 847 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter. The handle of both of those is 848 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 1: tech Stuff hs W. Remember we have an Instagram account 849 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: you should follow that. You can learn all sorts of 850 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: cool stuff and see behind the scenes photos on occasion. 851 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 1: And if you want to watch me record one of 852 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: these live, go to twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff. 853 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: You'll find a schedule there. I record on Wednesdays and Friday's. 854 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,320 Speaker 1: You can watch me as I stumble through my notes 855 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: on a daily or twice a week basis, and you 856 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: can even participate in the chat room. And I'm happy 857 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 1: to chat with you guys. I love seeing you show up. 858 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,360 Speaker 1: It means a lot to me and I hope you 859 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: will give it a try and I'll talk to you 860 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:18,760 Speaker 1: guys again really soon. For more on this and thousands 861 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:30,880 Speaker 1: of other topics because at how staff works dot com