Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we talked with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
Speaker 1: There may be an estimated fifty million people active in
Speaker 1: the so called creator economy, but only a fraction of
Speaker 1: them are making the truly big bucks. And that's where
Speaker 1: my next guest comes in. Dan Weinstein has been representing
Speaker 1: some of the influencers with the largest audiences for over
Speaker 1: a decade, even before everyone started calling them influencers. Now
Speaker 1: he's doing it again as part of a new management firm,
Speaker 1: Underscore Talent, which gives us a good opportunity to see
Speaker 1: how this rapidly evolving business continues to change. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Strictly Business with Dan Weinstein, co founder of Underscore Talent,
Speaker 1: which represents some pretty big names in the influencer world.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've heard of the kid duo of Lad and
Speaker 1: Nikki here in the top ten among total subscribers by
Speaker 1: some counts, or the Royalty family or the Labrand family.
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, Dan, you've been active in this space
Speaker 1: for a long time, so tell me what is it
Speaker 1: about this business that you've stuck with all this time,
Speaker 1: is the opportunity here bigger than it's ever been? And
Speaker 1: why yes, thanks Andy, and I you know, even more
Speaker 1: so than I think around you know, five or six
Speaker 1: years ago. The opportunity for creators to build meaningful businesses
Speaker 1: and be sort of entrepreneurial is exponential to where it was.
Speaker 1: You look at, you know, somewhere like three or four
Speaker 1: years ago, when the top creators in the space maybe
Speaker 1: five years ago, you know, we're lucky if they were
Speaker 1: earning a million dollars a year, two million dollars a year.
Speaker 1: That was the top half of one percent, and it
Speaker 1: was generally driven by brands. Now you've got the top
Speaker 1: half of that same one percent earning twenty thirty forty
Speaker 1: million dollars in building companies that you know, I think
Speaker 1: arguably could be the next unicorns in the in the
Speaker 1: coming you know, coming decade. And that's just a really
Speaker 1: exciting place to be. And you know, I love being
Speaker 1: sort of a very disruptive um, you know industry. So
Speaker 1: what changed here? Because I remember those days where it
Speaker 1: was all about, you know, get the brand deal and
Speaker 1: you know the rest is gravy, and now it seems
Speaker 1: like it's the gravy where the money is made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so it's interesting, I think, um, you know, a
Speaker 1: while ago, it was the thesis around the whole company,
Speaker 1: even started two thousand seven, was that access to an
Speaker 1: audience was going to drive meaningful value. Right. It was disintermediation.
Speaker 1: You could circumvent the gatekeepers, go direct to your audience,
Speaker 1: and you know, the heavens will open up and money
Speaker 1: will write down upon you. Um. And I think some
Speaker 1: of that was true, right, And a lot of it,
Speaker 1: again was was driven by advertising. But the technology, the
Speaker 1: plat forms, the companies that have been built even in
Speaker 1: the last two years to further strengthen that relationship with
Speaker 1: an audience and provide a low barrier entry to monetize
Speaker 1: that audience in myriad ways has allowed creators that that
Speaker 1: aren't even in that top half of one percent to
Speaker 1: build sustainable and real businesses. You know, I call it
Speaker 1: sort of that middle class of creators are now able
Speaker 1: to leverage their audience, price people's passion or fandom in
Speaker 1: meaningful ways provide whether it's exclusivity or content or memberships
Speaker 1: or all these other things that are coming about to
Speaker 1: drive real revenue and and and brands and advertising is
Speaker 1: becoming less and less of an important piece. When I
Speaker 1: would first talk to you about this back in in
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, when you were dealing with names like
Speaker 1: and I wonder, who's going to remember the likes of
Speaker 1: Annoying Orange. Um, you know Lucas, Uh, what is this
Speaker 1: Lucas cruchank right? And back then it was I remember
Speaker 1: you telling me it was all about you get your
Speaker 1: start on the platform, but then you've got to graduate that.
Speaker 1: I pe so that you know, Lucas gets his TV show,
Speaker 1: Annoying Orange gets his movie, and you guys you were
Speaker 1: great at that. Um did some real pioneering work there. Um.
Speaker 1: Is that no longer the case because that's you know,
Speaker 1: my from my Hollywood vantage point. Uh, that was the
Speaker 1: be all and end all ten years ago. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: I that's definitely not the case anymore. Um. And and
Speaker 1: I think back then, you know, we we made we
Speaker 1: were still innovative in the way that we made these movies. Right.
Speaker 1: We leveraged our access to the audience. We put in
Speaker 1: our own capital to drive a better economic outcome, which
Speaker 1: I think was really interesting at the time. But the
Speaker 1: goal was get on TV, get in movies. Seldom music
Speaker 1: do do the traditional sort of Hollywood thing. Um now,
Speaker 1: I think you know it's almost TV and film are
Speaker 1: still important, but it's one spoke of that wheel right
Speaker 1: and it and it has to be under the right
Speaker 1: set of circumstances. In terms take a property like like
Speaker 1: uh good Mythical Morning with the Mythical Entertainment Crew. Years ago,
Speaker 1: I would have said, that is a late night TV show.
Speaker 1: We need to go to MTV or NBC or one
Speaker 1: of these places and and sell this into into late night.
Speaker 1: We'll drive the audience, it will be it'll be great.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be the win. And the reality is today
Speaker 1: when you look at it, britten Link would say, well,
Speaker 1: why would we do that? We own the show, we
Speaker 1: are super profitable, we have a media company that has
Speaker 1: eighty year ninety executives in it. We've built products around it,
Speaker 1: We've built other vehicles and other talent around it. This
Speaker 1: is the asset that we're going to continue to sort
Speaker 1: of build. Why would we let MTV own that that
Speaker 1: asset for a much less economic upside? And I think
Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of that today. I think it's gone.
Speaker 1: There are definitely people you know and creators that want
Speaker 1: to be in movies and television and where that will
Speaker 1: drive real value, But it's certainly not the only opportunity, um,
Speaker 1: and it has to be a part of the right
Speaker 1: sort of overall strategy. What you're saying actually reminds me
Speaker 1: of another former client of yours, Lily Singh, who I think,
Speaker 1: after you represented her, went on to late night TV
Speaker 1: at NBC for I think just a few years. And
Speaker 1: I don't know that that was necessarily a successful experiment.
Speaker 1: Not not that anyone's worried about her. I think I
Speaker 1: think she's gonna do just fine. Yeah, I think I think, Look,
Speaker 1: Lily is an incredibly talented creative and she'll be and
Speaker 1: she'll be you know, great and whatever she sort of does.
Speaker 1: I think it was an interesting experiment. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think part of the thesis was that can you know,
Speaker 1: can she drive her audience to you know, television, And
Speaker 1: I think the reality is is that, you know, primarily
Speaker 1: her audience is not going to stay up and watch
Speaker 1: you know, late night television at two in the morning
Speaker 1: on on NBC, and and the format was not what
Speaker 1: was sort of, um the crux of what drew that
Speaker 1: audience to her in the first place, and so it
Speaker 1: was kind of trying to bring the Internet to television
Speaker 1: and it wasn't separate, and I just think it wasn't,
Speaker 1: you know, a bit of a failed experiment. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure there were a lot of reasons why, including NBC
Speaker 1: and and you know, in Lily's camp, um, you know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't. I don't think was was the
Speaker 1: home run that it was anticipating. So influencers don't need
Speaker 1: Hollywood anymore. Give me, as a point of contrast, walk
Speaker 1: me through an existing client of yours and the spokes
Speaker 1: of the wheel and the many ways they're making money,
Speaker 1: which I would assume are is very heavy on, you know,
Speaker 1: merchandise licensing. Yeah, so I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: different ways. So so we'll take the Royalty Family by example. Right,
Speaker 1: So they've got you know, north of twelve or thirteen
Speaker 1: million subscribers on YouTube. They produced content, you know, on
Speaker 1: a daily basis. They generate a tremendous amount of revenue
Speaker 1: passively from advertising on on YouTube, the ad sense revenue. Right.
Speaker 1: We then also have partnered with them to take their
Speaker 1: content into other other platforms that are also monetizing, like Facebook,
Speaker 1: like Snapchat, where we're sort of repurposing their their sort
Speaker 1: of really robust library of content and and driving incremental
Speaker 1: and passive and recurring revenue from other platforms. We also
Speaker 1: sort of partnered with them on their will call it merchandise,
Speaker 1: but I think it goes beyond that. It's it's less
Speaker 1: hats and t shirts. UM. You know, the mother of
Speaker 1: the mom of the group is very into fitness, and
Speaker 1: we started sort of in a very bespoke way to
Speaker 1: create a line of at leisure where that we're in
Speaker 1: the middle of developing. We think that's going to be
Speaker 1: hugely successful. There's a couple of other consumer product categories
Speaker 1: that we're looking around in the in the kids space
Speaker 1: that we're just starting starting to to sort of develop
Speaker 1: UM and we and the and obviously brand still at
Speaker 1: that scale, still play a big piece of it. I
Speaker 1: think you know, once or you know, once a week
Speaker 1: or so, there's a there's a branded entertainment piece that
Speaker 1: comes out through some really robust partnerships with brand advertisers. UM.
Speaker 1: We've also created i P that we're launching on all
Speaker 1: these different platforms Snapchat, Instagram, UM and and and the like.
Speaker 1: And so at the moment, TV is not a thought. Um,
Speaker 1: will it? Will it be at some point in time?
Speaker 1: Possibly Is there a larger show that that requires the
Speaker 1: distribution of the Netflix or or that kind of a
Speaker 1: budget level. Maybe, but only if it makes sense. It's
Speaker 1: certainly not a necessity at the moment, and they're in
Speaker 1: control of their own destiny. So it sounds like the
Speaker 1: brand advertiser though it is still an important spoke in
Speaker 1: all this. And I recall a few years ago having
Speaker 1: your colleague, the the shy retiring rezazad Uh describing with
Speaker 1: great candor the difficulties of working with brands in the space,
Speaker 1: you know, the customization that just kind of the wild
Speaker 1: wild west of it all. Has it gotten any better
Speaker 1: in terms of working with brands and bringing them into
Speaker 1: this kind of work. I think it. I think it has.
Speaker 1: I think um, I think brands, I mean, look, there's
Speaker 1: a natural maturation that that that that happens, right, Um.
Speaker 1: I think you go through all your trials and tribulations,
Speaker 1: both on the agency side on the talent side, there's
Speaker 1: harder brands to work with, there's harder influencers to work with.
Speaker 1: I think, so threading that needle sometimes can still be
Speaker 1: still be challenging, but I think that advertisers for the
Speaker 1: most part have understood the value of where uh, you know,
Speaker 1: influencers play in their in their chain of activities. I
Speaker 1: think that they've learned how to really understand efficacy as
Speaker 1: it relates to the performance of the of the videos
Speaker 1: or the content or the influencer, and they started to
Speaker 1: learn like, look, we don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Speaker 1: There's some really great bespoke, custom branded content out there,
Speaker 1: but not everything needs to to be that and to
Speaker 1: go viral on if you want to reach a very
Speaker 1: specific audience, you can very easily say, you know, like
Speaker 1: in podcasting, here's the brand we're powering this piece of content.
Speaker 1: You know, here's your here's your your value as the
Speaker 1: listener or the fan, whether it be a discount or
Speaker 1: this or that ideality, and you can track that. And
Speaker 1: I think you see a lot more performance based marketing
Speaker 1: today than you do general awareness, super custom you know,
Speaker 1: branded content which was wrought with all sorts of challenges. Dana,
Speaker 1: I want to also talk about the relationship with the platforms,
Speaker 1: which you know, as we've talked about it here, it's
Speaker 1: been sort of a very YouTube centric conversation. But of
Speaker 1: course there's plenty of platforms out there that are seemed
Speaker 1: to be actively courting influencers. So again, in terms of
Speaker 1: a contrast from five, ten years ago, how different is
Speaker 1: there in terms of the multiplicity of viable platforms to
Speaker 1: play with. Yeah, um, I think you were in the
Speaker 1: middle or maybe in the beginning of you know, proverbial
Speaker 1: arms race for for influencers. UM. I think with with
Speaker 1: the you know, exponential growth of TikTok and all the
Speaker 1: value that TikTok is providing to creators and influencers, you
Speaker 1: see a lot of the you know, more established platforms
Speaker 1: that may have been behind the eight ball in that
Speaker 1: regard starting to try to play catch up. So you've
Speaker 1: got TikTok, You've got all the Facebook companies, Instagram, Facebook, etcetera.
Speaker 1: You've got Snapchat, who has really leaned in in recent
Speaker 1: years to um supporting and innovating around creators. Um. Twitter
Speaker 1: has come out of the woodwork and started creating a
Speaker 1: tool sets and monetization opportunities for for for them. You
Speaker 1: had you had an insurgence of very small, smaller but
Speaker 1: specific platforms like clubhouse or this or that or the
Speaker 1: other thing, and so there's a lot of opportunities to
Speaker 1: build audience and people leaning into developed specifically for creators
Speaker 1: so that they can you know, better monetize their their
Speaker 1: their their wares um. And I think that's reflective in
Speaker 1: how how creators and companies like us are engaging with
Speaker 1: these platforms. And so what does this mean strategically? In
Speaker 1: other words, do you tell your clients, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: pick one platform and really focus there, or you know,
Speaker 1: spread yourself as thin as you can across ten different platforms,
Speaker 1: or or is it just every client takes a different strategy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little it's a little ladder, right.
Speaker 1: I think it depends on the client and the audience
Speaker 1: that you're trying to reach and where those audiences are. Um,
Speaker 1: I think there are still some differences, right, you know,
Speaker 1: TikTok tends to be a little on the younger side
Speaker 1: versus where Instagram is today versus where you know, Facebook
Speaker 1: proper is, for example. So I think understanding where your
Speaker 1: audiences and playing to your strength is important. But content
Speaker 1: ubiquity in this world and consistency and and and being
Speaker 1: top of mind all the time is super important. Even
Speaker 1: leaning into new platforms like YouTube shorts, for example, which
Speaker 1: came out you know a month or two ago, has
Speaker 1: has given creators a whole new opportunity to grow an audience.
Speaker 1: We we had creators that have been operating on YouTube
Speaker 1: and other platforms for you know a year or two years,
Speaker 1: you know, getting thousands of views that have really leaned
Speaker 1: into YouTube shorts and overnight seemingly have started to get
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of views um and so you've got
Speaker 1: to be on top of what what people are responding to,
Speaker 1: where the eyeballs are um and and look, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of different opportunities because there's a war for
Speaker 1: for influencers at the moment, and and and frankly because
Speaker 1: of you know, the new Apple update where where privacy
Speaker 1: is becoming more of an issue and ad targeting is
Speaker 1: going to be more challenging people it have very specific
Speaker 1: audiences that can communicate with them directly are going to
Speaker 1: become more valuable. So so you know, there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to I don't want to say, play them off of
Speaker 1: each other, but leverage each for their strengths. And really
Speaker 1: the creator is in the driver's seat at the moment,
Speaker 1: and you know, I want to get back to TikTok
Speaker 1: because in the scheme of this arms race, it seems
Speaker 1: like TikTok is sort of sucking all the oxygen out
Speaker 1: of the room. Uh, there's just so much attention, so
Speaker 1: much heat. Um. But does that mean you necessarily I mean,
Speaker 1: for your say, more family oriented clients, do they not
Speaker 1: necessarily belong on TikTok, which, as you put it, is
Speaker 1: sort of more young skewing. Um. No. I look, I
Speaker 1: think TikTok is really captured, you know, a very large
Speaker 1: audience in a very short amount of time. And I
Speaker 1: think there's rooms for room for a lot of things
Speaker 1: and a lot of specific niches. I'll address the families
Speaker 1: in a second, but look at something like, you know,
Speaker 1: the phenomenon going on with book talk right now, um,
Speaker 1: which is a very specific niche around around literature. And
Speaker 1: and I think if you search the hashtag book talk,
Speaker 1: twelve point six billion views in the last month or
Speaker 1: two have been around that topic. And it is actually
Speaker 1: catapulted essentially non existent or dormant you know, books to
Speaker 1: the top of the best seller list. Like how influential
Speaker 1: that is in that world? Um, is sort of incredible.
Speaker 1: So and I think you find that you find culinary
Speaker 1: on TikTok, you find uh you know, books and movies
Speaker 1: and and and all sorts of very specific niches are
Speaker 1: emanating from that platform. So I do think it's important
Speaker 1: to be there. It's it is the platform of the moment.
Speaker 1: It's capturing a lot of the zy guys. Our family
Speaker 1: channels are there. For example, the Labrandt family, uh, Cole
Speaker 1: and Savannah are some of the largest TikTok creators out there,
Speaker 1: and what they do on TikTok, while it's still family oriented,
Speaker 1: is not necessarily what they do on YouTube. I think
Speaker 1: that's an opportunity for Savanna that, for example, but mother
Speaker 1: to be more herself and around her lifestyle and this
Speaker 1: and that. The other thing where is what happens on
Speaker 1: YouTube is much more around the family dynamic, Everley the kid,
Speaker 1: and things along that along the line. We're gonna take
Speaker 1: a quick break, but will be right back with more
Speaker 1: with Dan Weinstein, co founder of Underscore Talent. And we're
Speaker 1: back with Dan Weinstein, co founder Underscore Talent, a longtime
Speaker 1: expert in the influencers space. I'm gonna ask a question
Speaker 1: that it may sound like I'm joking, but maybe I'm
Speaker 1: not which is does a business like yours have to
Speaker 1: be managing a TikTok house? Do you do you need
Speaker 1: to have you know, uh, ten twentysomething's in a mansion
Speaker 1: in bel Air at this point? Or is that optional?
Speaker 1: I think that's optional. I think Look, I think there's
Speaker 1: there's opportunity there. I think some have done well with it,
Speaker 1: and I think others have, you know, sort of not
Speaker 1: done so well to be, to put it nicely, um,
Speaker 1: I think that just the idea of getting people together
Speaker 1: and creating in a house is you know, isn't enough.
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a business raph around
Speaker 1: around that. I think there needs to be adults in
Speaker 1: the room. I mean, I think that, you know, part
Speaker 1: of the reason we started Underscore was that we looked
Speaker 1: around the creator space and like you said at the beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, my partners and I have been doing is
Speaker 1: a combine thirty plus years in both traditional and digital. Um,
Speaker 1: we saw a lot of disparate representation, a lot of young,
Speaker 1: inexperienced people, oftentimes a little unsophisticated. Not not everybody, I'm
Speaker 1: not casting versions generally, but there, but there really wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, that sort of preeminent place where people could
Speaker 1: go to and feel guided, right and and and safe. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think that was what we were hoping to
Speaker 1: sort of bring to this kind of space that not
Speaker 1: only the entrepreneurial spirit that we have and ability to execute,
Speaker 1: but but some real guidance and some real you know, representation. Well,
Speaker 1: but on the flip side of that, I gotta wonder
Speaker 1: whether you've got to have a real stomach to be
Speaker 1: in this space. I you know, you read the headlines
Speaker 1: about you know, certain influence or misbehaviors, and you know,
Speaker 1: also you're working with children, people who you know their
Speaker 1: parents are working with them, and it just seems to
Speaker 1: me like there's so many different ways this could get
Speaker 1: kind of hairry. So how do you deal with all that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you you've got to be um, you know,
Speaker 1: a guiding principle, you know, guiding point in any one
Speaker 1: of these creators lives, right, you have to make sure
Speaker 1: that they're surrounding themselves with the right people and the
Speaker 1: right teammates. And look, you can't plan for everything, and
Speaker 1: and stuff certainly does happen, and people in this space
Speaker 1: tend to push the envelope a little bit, which has
Speaker 1: its consequences, but I don't think it's that dissimilar from
Speaker 1: the traditional space. UM. Today, I think the the platforms,
Speaker 1: and I think that the speed at which news and
Speaker 1: information and all this sort of stuff can can go
Speaker 1: viral and haywire is more substantive. But I think there's
Speaker 1: a there's plenty of sort of celebrities, TV stars, movie
Speaker 1: stars that are capable of the same, you know, anxiety
Speaker 1: driven stuff. UM. Fair point, but but yeah, you do.
Speaker 1: You have to. You're working generally with a younger audience
Speaker 1: that haven't done this before. They haven't cut their teeth
Speaker 1: for years and years in the hone to craft necessarily,
Speaker 1: and that comes with its own set of challenges. But
Speaker 1: I think I like the opportunity though. I think the
Speaker 1: opportunity with that white canvas is worth it. But how
Speaker 1: do you know who to work with? Again, in this
Speaker 1: creator economy of tens and tens of millions? You know,
Speaker 1: I assume it's not as simple as you're just looking
Speaker 1: for someone who has the highest subscriber count. No, I
Speaker 1: think I think, look there, you know, it's always been
Speaker 1: I think equal arts, you know, art and science. I
Speaker 1: think you've got to have a belief. You've got to
Speaker 1: have a feeling. You've got to look at something and go,
Speaker 1: I like that content. I think there's something here. I
Speaker 1: know why the audiences is engaged with it. Right even
Speaker 1: even way back in the early days with with Fred,
Speaker 1: you know, you most people could take a look at
Speaker 1: what he was doing on YouTube, look at it for
Speaker 1: about three seconds and go, oh my god, what is
Speaker 1: this annoying thing? And what am I watching? But you know,
Speaker 1: for those select few of those kids, when you really
Speaker 1: got into that content, there was something there. There was
Speaker 1: a creative storyline. It wasn't just a kid vlogging his life.
Speaker 1: He created characters in a world and this this whole thing,
Speaker 1: and and if you could help him amplify that, which
Speaker 1: you know we did. Um, there was a lot of
Speaker 1: opportunity there, a lot of a lot of value. And
Speaker 1: I think it's it's the same you know, I think, look,
Speaker 1: they're you're always gonna have your flavor of the month,
Speaker 1: and that's uh, you know, that is what it is.
Speaker 1: But trying to find something that that has residents, that
Speaker 1: people are engaged with and you can kind of put
Speaker 1: your finger on why people respond to it and that
Speaker 1: it and it can sustain you know, it's a bit
Speaker 1: of an art and that's what you tend to look for.
Speaker 1: And not everybody's gonna make it, but you know, I'd
Speaker 1: like our chances to to help cultivate some of the
Speaker 1: next generation, you know, biggest celebrities out there. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: sure when you're pitching the clients, you're you're showing them
Speaker 1: the track record that you've racked up and and your
Speaker 1: partners have racked up. I do want to talk about
Speaker 1: you know, you've got this new venture in place, but
Speaker 1: this goes back. Now. I've been talking to you for
Speaker 1: for over a decade when the Collective was the name
Speaker 1: of the company, and you had come out of the Firm,
Speaker 1: which was sort of a big classic Hollywood management company,
Speaker 1: and then the Collective in turn was was brought up
Speaker 1: by Studio seventy one, And I just kinda want to
Speaker 1: understand what happened to the last iteration of the company
Speaker 1: that you had with res azad and and Michael Green.
Speaker 1: Why are we sort of at this new place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's interesting we sort of we sort
Speaker 1: of did a full one eight. I mean, the Collective
Speaker 1: back in the day was sort of a pure play
Speaker 1: management business, although with a different thesis that I sort
Speaker 1: of mentioned earlier, which is that and this is two
Speaker 1: thousand six, mind you, which was that technology was going
Speaker 1: to enable artists to go direct to their consumers and
Speaker 1: and be able to extract value from that relationship directly.
Speaker 1: And we didn't know how that was going to play out,
Speaker 1: but if we could help artists aggregate audience communicate with them,
Speaker 1: that we would be in a position to ultimately partner
Speaker 1: with them potentially on their on their endeavors UM and
Speaker 1: it would be a win win for everybody UM and
Speaker 1: you know, essentially putting the economic power back in the
Speaker 1: artists hands versus the distributor or whatever whatever that third
Speaker 1: party was UM. And we did that really successfully for
Speaker 1: a long time, and as we scaled, where the opportunity
Speaker 1: had led us was to sort of becoming more of
Speaker 1: a scaled publisher of content UM. And I think the
Speaker 1: Collective and its iterations over the last ten years, going
Speaker 1: from collective to collect the Digital Studio, which was really
Speaker 1: a management focused company too when it really became Studio
Speaker 1: sev one was was was just driven by the opportunity
Speaker 1: in the marketplace. I think YouTube would come to us
Speaker 1: and said we need help, uh working with this creator class. UM.
Speaker 1: We needed to start to build and provide services for
Speaker 1: these creators. We needed to build a sales organization, we
Speaker 1: needed to build a distribution apparatus in order to drive that.
Speaker 1: That value and scale was really important to being you
Speaker 1: know effective, you know in that space and at that time, UM.
Speaker 1: The downside of that UM was that that we really
Speaker 1: sort of over the years migrated away from being a
Speaker 1: pure played management business and fiduciary to talent and being
Speaker 1: more of a a service provider and a and a
Speaker 1: media player. We were essentially one of the largest social
Speaker 1: video distributors you know out there, UM and and it
Speaker 1: was hard to serve both you know, both bosses, I
Speaker 1: guess right, on the one side advertising which drove the business,
Speaker 1: and on the other side of the talent UM. And
Speaker 1: so last year residentis obligation to the to the company
Speaker 1: had come come up and we had we had gotten
Speaker 1: into where we you know, wanted to get it. We're
Speaker 1: very proud of it. We left it in good hands
Speaker 1: and it's still a very good company. But in our
Speaker 1: d n A resident I have always been talent people
Speaker 1: UM to going back to U t A even before
Speaker 1: the collective and again going back to sort of what
Speaker 1: we were discussing about the opportunity for creators today being better,
Speaker 1: you know, much more significant than it was, you know
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. We thought pivoting back towards
Speaker 1: our roots and being real UH managers again and representatives,
Speaker 1: UM was was a really interesting opportunity that we couldn't
Speaker 1: pass up. So you've gone back to the roots. And
Speaker 1: I'm curious what the dynamic is like because you well,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say search for clients, but maybe the
Speaker 1: clients are searching for you. Or is it the kind
Speaker 1: of thing where you're like looking for needles in a
Speaker 1: haystack or is this really just a stack of needles,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's lots of people with millions of followers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's there's a there's a lot of needles
Speaker 1: out there for sure, UM, And I think it's both. Look.
Speaker 1: I think in a very short amount of time, we've
Speaker 1: got about uh we're zeroing in and out thirty on
Speaker 1: the team UM. Having just launched in January, We've got
Speaker 1: a very solid list of clients that are at the
Speaker 1: top of their platforms, and you know, across all the
Speaker 1: different platforms from TikTok to YouTube, etcetera. Um, we've we've
Speaker 1: started to execute and I think we've gotten some some
Speaker 1: some good notoriety and press around some of our executions.
Speaker 1: And so we're we're getting incoming opportunities. We're looking for
Speaker 1: other opportunities. I think our our our past history, our
Speaker 1: reputation is certainly helpful in in navigating this this world. Um,
Speaker 1: but we're not building an m C. And again we're not.
Speaker 1: We're not we're not looking for thousands of clients. We're not.
Speaker 1: We're not just a pure place scale thing, and we're
Speaker 1: not just throwing stuff at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Speaker 1: We're really focused on trying to cultivate the right talent,
Speaker 1: you know, doing the right thing, and and and doing
Speaker 1: it in a space where we know that we can
Speaker 1: add value and we can help them build real enterprise
Speaker 1: value around what it is that that they're doing. Just Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you just mentioned mc N, which was of course the
Speaker 1: multi channel network business model that in the early days
Speaker 1: of online video platforms is a big deal. Um, here's
Speaker 1: another acronym to throw at you that I'm curious figures
Speaker 1: into your business. And f T S I would imagine
Speaker 1: that could be a place where your clients will apply. Yes,
Speaker 1: I you know, to be honest, I'm still trying to
Speaker 1: wrap my head around. And look, I think the underlying technology,
Speaker 1: the blockchain, smart contract, that whole thing is going to
Speaker 1: be here to stay. It's super valued. It's got a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of applications. I think some of this stuff
Speaker 1: has just been um hyper inflated and and and and
Speaker 1: hasn't really worked the way that it's supposed to work.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's right for every application, but I
Speaker 1: do think that there's gonna be some real, real value
Speaker 1: there um in particular around a specific you know, sort
Speaker 1: of audience demographic. And I actually think of it, you know,
Speaker 1: because I remember back in the day when we were
Speaker 1: representing Lincoln Park and starting to build out their their
Speaker 1: fan club from from a very sort of you know,
Speaker 1: bespoke standpoint on websites and etcetera. The n f T
Speaker 1: has tremendous implication in the music business in particular and
Speaker 1: around what I think are our fan clubs. Right, how
Speaker 1: do how do you create exclusive experiences exclusive value where
Speaker 1: the wold the value of the token or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: can can actually live on and and and be sold.
Speaker 1: And it's not sort of a one off um sort
Speaker 1: of novelty. I think it's kind of where I I
Speaker 1: want to play. And we're sort of steering our clients
Speaker 1: first is hey, let's partner with an artist and just
Speaker 1: see what we can sell um and and you know,
Speaker 1: so that we're trying to figure that we've got a
Speaker 1: couple of irons in the fire. Um and and in particular,
Speaker 1: I do like a company like you know, rally Io,
Speaker 1: which is much more around social tokens and you know,
Speaker 1: versus the actual n F T s UM. But there's
Speaker 1: a there's a lot more to learn, and it's an
Speaker 1: exciting space to play for sure. And by the way,
Speaker 1: you mentioned you know, established talent like Lincoln Park and
Speaker 1: you guys have represented another established talent many years ago,
Speaker 1: Kanye Prince, Martin Lawrence. Is there any piece of this
Speaker 1: new business that could be playing in the so called
Speaker 1: you know, established talent space. Yeah, I think that. You know,
Speaker 1: when when we started the company, our our thesis was
Speaker 1: we want to work with any talent that has the
Speaker 1: ability to cultivate and communicate directly with an audience at
Speaker 1: some level of meaningful scale. And I think we're agnostic too.
Speaker 1: Are they a quote unquote digitally native or or sort
Speaker 1: of emanate out of the TV, film or celebrity space.
Speaker 1: And so I think we absolutely wanna Look if I
Speaker 1: could be representing the Kardashians, for example, that would be
Speaker 1: a home run it were uniquely situated to to help
Speaker 1: them execute in this world. Um and and that would
Speaker 1: be that would be an interesting opportunity. We already have
Speaker 1: some crossover talent, you know, again I'm using air quotes
Speaker 1: that you can't see, but um and you know like
Speaker 1: Twitch and Alison Boss who you know, Twitch was the
Speaker 1: co host of The Ellen Show and so you think
Speaker 1: you can dance. And I would say they're like they're
Speaker 1: equal parts, you know, traditional celebrity TV host kind of
Speaker 1: talent as well as um digital influencers. Right, they have
Speaker 1: huge followings, they're creating content consistently on their own, They're
Speaker 1: working a tremendous amount with brands and advertisers, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity there, and I think we want
Speaker 1: to get much more heavy in that in that space.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't believe we've gone this far into
Speaker 1: the conversation without touching on what must be the number
Speaker 1: one in fluenz Er monetization tool boxing. When when are
Speaker 1: your child clients canna be lacing it up for you know,
Speaker 1: prime time about a note pay per view? Yeah, children boxing,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be the next one. I read that Tante
Speaker 1: Mojo is gonna start boxing now too. Um. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's interesting, it's it's you know, you
Speaker 1: can we can kinda laugh about it. But it goes
Speaker 1: back to if you have an audience and you have
Speaker 1: a vehicle to create something unique and monetize it, that
Speaker 1: there's there's real value there. I mean, I you know,
Speaker 1: on the one hand, you know, am I a fan
Speaker 1: of their content and their persona, you know, referencing you know,
Speaker 1: the Paul Brothers. Not necessarily, um am. I hugely impressed
Speaker 1: with what they've been able to do and how they've
Speaker 1: been able to do it, and they're they're sort of
Speaker 1: business acumen and and and all that sort of stuff. Hugely.
Speaker 1: It's really really incredible what he was able to accomplish,
Speaker 1: you know, in particular with the Floyd Mayweather stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think some people are going to do it
Speaker 1: better than others, and someone will be a joke and
Speaker 1: they you know, tried and whipped and some will be
Speaker 1: a grand slam well, from boxing to book talk. That's
Speaker 1: why I love following this space. Very unpredictable, very interesting.
Speaker 1: That's why I always like talking to you because you've
Speaker 1: been on top of this space long before it was
Speaker 1: cool and so happy to take the time to talk
Speaker 1: to you today. Appreciate you sharing your insights. Thanks again.
Speaker 1: This has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in
Speaker 1: next week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media
Speaker 1: movers and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to
Speaker 1: the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review
Speaker 1: in Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.