Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: So, doctor Dan Freeman, co author of a couple of
Speaker 2: books on Jack the Ripper as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Speaker 2: or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as Jack the Ripper. The
Speaker 2: new one will be coming out this fall, and of
Speaker 2: all goes as planned, you'll see a little blurb on
Speaker 2: the back there Doyle's World Lost and Found. The Unknown
Speaker 2: Histories are Sherlock Combs and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. So
Speaker 2: if I were to ask you, though, Dan, if I
Speaker 2: could again, I mean, you mentioned the Robert Louis Stevenson thing.
Speaker 2: You mentioned some pieces that it seems like Sir Arthur
Speaker 2: Conan Doyle gave to other people to publish under their names.
Speaker 2: How do you make that determination?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I actually what I will do. I will go through
Speaker 3: a Shilla Comb's tale and I will analyze the language,
Speaker 3: and I will look for clues in there that don't
Speaker 3: seem to match the storyline, or see if there's something
Speaker 3: out of place and I don't take that one piece
Speaker 3: of information, and I will investigate where it was really
Speaker 3: coming from, what it was really meant to mean, and
Speaker 3: in one of the stories, it was just that I
Speaker 3: am your neighbor, and that line, I am your neighbor
Speaker 3: just comes out of nowhere, and it was the clue
Speaker 3: I needed to figure out exactly who this entire story
Speaker 3: was dedicated to. And it's actually one of the most
Speaker 3: famous ones. It's the one that resurrected Sholo comes out
Speaker 3: of the graves. In other words, there was the Hound
Speaker 3: of the Basketballs that that took Holmes back before he
Speaker 3: was he fell off Rick and back balls, and the
Speaker 3: Venture of the Empty House where he says, I've been
Speaker 3: away in Tibet, and I went to Florence, and I
Speaker 3: went to France, and I stopped in on Mecca. And
Speaker 3: there was just one word in that story, I am
Speaker 3: your neighbor, that made me look to see what that meant.
Speaker 3: Who was his neighbor, found out who the neighbor was,
Speaker 3: and everything about that neighbor fit the entire story.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, tell me more specifically about what you mean
Speaker 2: by that then.
Speaker 3: So in other words, so he had a neighbor named
Speaker 3: Grant Allen. He was a very famous writer at the time.
Speaker 3: It was kind of like the Isaac Asimov of our time.
Speaker 3: He like wrote genre possible, like science fiction, but then history,
Speaker 3: then religion, biology, so and Doyle was asked right before this,
Speaker 3: before Grant Allen died, he said, you're my neighbor. We
Speaker 3: know each other for years now. You moved here because
Speaker 3: of me. I told you to move to this area
Speaker 3: for your wife's health, and you did. Could give me
Speaker 3: a favorite just finished the end of my story for me.
Speaker 3: I can't do it. And Doyle of course said, sure,
Speaker 3: you do your story for you. Where are we up to.
Speaker 3: We're in mystic Tibet and we're going to be meeting
Speaker 3: with the Dolly Lama. So of course Doyle stores up
Speaker 3: the story and he starts writing about, you know, the
Speaker 3: Dolly Lama and the adventures that we're going to happen
Speaker 3: after this. So if you take this part of the
Speaker 3: I am your neighbor of being Grant Allen, and you
Speaker 3: look and see what happens in the rest of the
Speaker 3: empty house. We start off in Tibet, Holmes tells you
Speaker 3: I went to Tibet and that with the Dali Lama,
Speaker 3: and then I went to Florence. And in Florence is
Speaker 3: actually a book that Grant Allen wrote because he also
Speaker 3: wrote about travel guides and one of the most famous
Speaker 3: travel guys is Florence. I'm actually holding it in my hand. Actually,
Speaker 3: it's beautiful. I can't show you because we're not doing it.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but.
Speaker 3: All the things in that story are based upon Grant Allen,
Speaker 3: like where the where homes went to, where he went to,
Speaker 3: the name of the Murderers are I mean, it's it's
Speaker 3: all dedicated to Grant Allen, secretly, never acknowledged, and no
Speaker 3: one's ever figured this out before. That's one of the
Speaker 3: stories that we're going to be doing. And we're also
Speaker 3: going to be doing another, the second home story, the
Speaker 3: Sign of the Four, which is one of the most
Speaker 3: famous of his novels, probably one of my favorite stories
Speaker 3: of all time. But in that one, we learn about
Speaker 3: this guy with one leg named Jonathan Small and how
Speaker 3: he has all these adventures. And but when you look
Speaker 3: at the story and you analyze it, it is the
Speaker 3: story of Treasure Island being told in reverse. Basically, you're
Speaker 3: going to be doing a sea story that becomes a
Speaker 3: land story that goes back to her sea story, to
Speaker 3: the episode of Tradu Roland. And you know, we have
Speaker 3: our character in Doyle story is Jonathan small. But in
Speaker 3: traju Roland, we have Long John Silver, so we have
Speaker 3: a long versus a small and we have John as
Speaker 3: the same first name, so both characters, so the character's
Speaker 3: names match up two, you know, long and small and
Speaker 3: but there's more to it than that.
Speaker 2: That's like a little you know, that's a teaser. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I like that. You know what, do you know what
Speaker 2: what neighbor implies in Hebrew?
Speaker 3: No, tell me what does neighbor of imply in Hebrew?
Speaker 2: People you cannot avoid?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't mean geographic. It doesn't mean like you
Speaker 2: only have like four neighbors, people who around your house,
Speaker 2: So people in your in your life you can't avoid.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I find that concept so fascinating because you know,
Speaker 2: then it love thy neighbor takes on a whole different
Speaker 2: thing other than you know, it's like the love that
Speaker 2: you might have for a neighbor doesn't end at the
Speaker 2: end of a block.
Speaker 3: It's the people that are in your community. Basically, it's
Speaker 3: like you just cannot avoid that if they're gonna work there,
Speaker 3: your neighbor, because you cannot avoid them your.
Speaker 2: Work, right, or are the people you're going to see
Speaker 2: a Temple.
Speaker 3: Or those two young Yeah, exactly. Anybody you're going to
Speaker 3: be really with is your your neighbor, you know.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you may be in conflict with them, but
Speaker 2: can't avoid them, you might as well work it out.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was love that. Well, all right, So again that's
Speaker 2: Doyle's World is Lost and Found. The Unknown History is
Speaker 2: a sure Combs and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. You can
Speaker 2: pre order that right now on Amazon. Let's go back
Speaker 2: to something that I mentioned before the break, which was
Speaker 2: doctor Catherine ramslan internationally recognized expert on serial killer as
Speaker 2: a criminologist, and she I've made an offense comment once
Speaker 2: about some of the things we know that define the
Speaker 2: characteristics of a serial killer. And she made a point
Speaker 2: to say it's a myth that serial killers want to
Speaker 2: be caught that in fact, it's the opposite. They don't
Speaker 2: want to be caught. They're not interested in turning themselves
Speaker 2: in this idea, the sort of you know, Dustyevskian concept
Speaker 2: about you know, chase me that it's over, there's too
Speaker 2: fine a point on it. Where are you with that?
Speaker 3: Well, I would say that no one knows killer wants
Speaker 3: to get caught. I mean, it means serving time in jail.
Speaker 3: I means you don't hanged exactly. But then again, you
Speaker 3: could be a little game that you're playing when you are.
Speaker 3: And that's why they leave things behind, I mean, and
Speaker 3: that's how they get. Remember that's good detective work, is
Speaker 3: how they find. You know, with serial killer, they their
Speaker 3: patterns are always left behind. So they are leaving things
Speaker 3: behind as far as patterns are concerned. Sometimes they leave
Speaker 3: little objects behind. The Jack the Ripper crimes themselves left
Speaker 3: behind some objects and they have meetings to the serial killer,
Speaker 3: but maybe not to you. And I'm just going to
Speaker 3: go over the Jack the Ripper ones. I mean, there
Speaker 3: were two that I really find which were like stand out.
Speaker 3: There were thimbles left behind, and they were handkerchiefs left behind,
Speaker 3: and that was always in like you know, when they
Speaker 3: did the inquest, those objects always came up. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know other people say they were coins left behind
Speaker 3: and brass rings for like some type of black magic visual,
Speaker 3: which they were not. They that wasn't there. That's all
Speaker 3: mess and that's all they believe. But the handkerchiefs were there,
Speaker 3: and they're all part of the inquests and symbols left
Speaker 3: behind planted, they were you know, they were purposely planted
Speaker 3: next to the victims. And those are the ones I
Speaker 3: like the most because the handkerchief is really intellectually based.
Speaker 3: You know, if you read or Fellow and you see
Speaker 3: what you know, Iago does to Desdemona. He manipulates that
Speaker 3: beautiful fidelity of the handkerchief into something that represents infidelity.
Speaker 3: So if the ripper understood or had ever was a
Speaker 3: student of the board and knew that the handkerchief being
Speaker 3: left behind could be a symbol of infidelity, it's a
Speaker 3: clue for his motive or why he killed these women,
Speaker 3: because really he really didn't have a motive. He wasn't
Speaker 3: doing it for robbery, he wasn't doing it for lust.
Speaker 3: You know, there was really no motive why he killed
Speaker 3: a specific woman. There was a pattern, but there was
Speaker 3: no motive that he wasn't doing it to like financial gain,
Speaker 3: you know, like like HH Holmes would do it for
Speaker 3: financial game. You know, he would insurance policies on the
Speaker 3: women with the you know, but that's financial game. That's
Speaker 3: that's different. But there was nothing here. So he left
Speaker 3: behind those handkerchiefs as a as as like a calling
Speaker 3: card saying here I am. I killed this woman, not
Speaker 3: because of who she was, but she represents infidelity to me.
Speaker 3: And the symbol is something that I find is fascinating,
Speaker 3: and it's it's one of the things you find in
Speaker 3: actually Peter Pan, which is actually James James Barry wrote
Speaker 3: Peter Pan. It's actually a friend of Arthur Corona Doyle.
Speaker 3: They were cricket teammates together and in Peter Pan, Wendy
Speaker 3: Darling gives Peter a symbol and he says, you know,
Speaker 3: this represents a kiss. So it's almost like this is
Speaker 3: a kiss. And the symbols being left away from the
Speaker 3: woman being planted means this is again an active infidelity.
Speaker 3: The symbols not placed on your hand, it's taken away
Speaker 3: from you. And also they of course the rippers stole
Speaker 3: all the rings. He took the rings off the and
Speaker 3: Chat Chapman. She lost her rings, and because rings represented
Speaker 3: in fidelity, so she couldn't be she couldn't died with
Speaker 3: a ring on her finger, it would represent the fidelity.
Speaker 3: So those are the three things that I noticed that
Speaker 3: the that were being left. But as far as you know,
Speaker 3: being wanted to be caught, I can say, they probably
Speaker 3: like to play with the toy with the police. They
Speaker 3: like the toy with society. I don't think any serial killer,
Speaker 3: unless they're really criminally insane, wants to get put into
Speaker 3: the difference than get hanged or executed or executed now,
Speaker 3: so I do agree with the you're expert that they
Speaker 3: don't want to They don't want to be caught.
Speaker 2: There isn't a stop me before I kill again motif
Speaker 2: to the Okay, let's go back. First of all, the
Speaker 2: thimble changes the way I'm going to play Monopoly next time.
Speaker 3: So you.
Speaker 2: Play, Yeah, you can have the race car. You can
Speaker 2: have the race car. I'm going to be the thimble.
Speaker 2: So but then the that concept of the handkerchief A
Speaker 2: was there any evidence he said? Says that Sir Arthur
Speaker 2: Conan Doyle was familiar with with Shakespeare, that he was
Speaker 2: a fan of Shakespeare.
Speaker 3: About Doyle was like he Ba said, it was like
Speaker 3: bathing in Shakespeare. Since he was a child, his mother
Speaker 3: read him Shakespeare and a Thurian legends. When he went
Speaker 3: to school, Doyle had to act out the plays during
Speaker 3: the winter recess, and of course the plays were always Shakespearean,
Speaker 3: so he knew Shakespeare he could probably quote to Shakespeare
Speaker 3: as matter of fact. One of the things that are
Speaker 3: in our lost stories. He starts off with a Shakespeare quote,
Speaker 3: and even though it's not officially written by Sir Arthur
Speaker 3: Conan Doyle, it's his work. And he starts up with
Speaker 3: a Shakespeare quote. And there's a lot of Shakespeare in
Speaker 3: the in the Homestales too, all put in there, like
Speaker 3: little lines that he throws in there. So he was
Speaker 3: fully aware of the words that Shakespeare used in the
Speaker 3: and the reasons behind them, like the waking up, the
Speaker 3: word assassins and all that. He knew all that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff.
Speaker 2: Okay, so then the was there anything on the handkerchief?
Speaker 2: Had the handkerchief been used to clean a blade or
Speaker 2: was it a pristine handkerchief that was just dropped you know.
Speaker 3: Actually he actually wiped his blades and other pieces of
Speaker 3: paper that were found near the bodies. He actually left
Speaker 3: the handkerchiefs in pretty nice conditions as a symbol of infidelity,
Speaker 3: like I'm giving you this handkerchief which I have manipulated
Speaker 3: to represent your active infidelity. So no, they weren't like
Speaker 3: used like with to wipe his hands off, and he
Speaker 3: just threw them down. That was not what he just
Speaker 3: actually left them there as like a calling guard.
Speaker 2: Okay, and they weren't were were handkerchiefs considered a sign
Speaker 2: of aristocracy or of success, that the lower classes wouldn't
Speaker 2: have a handkerchief, but the upper classes would no.
Speaker 3: No, the rob they had. Now, even when you look
Speaker 3: in some of the at the Mary Jane Kelly's room,
Speaker 3: who was I don't think it was one of the victims,
Speaker 3: but she had handkerchiefs in her room. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of the victims carried handkerchiefs with them, but these were
Speaker 3: not like they actually do an inquest. That was one
Speaker 3: of the things was did They would ask people that
Speaker 3: knew the victims did she had? Was this her handkerchief?
Speaker 3: And they would always say that was not hers, that
Speaker 3: did not belong to her, That was not her item.
Speaker 3: She had that one, but she didn't have this one that.
Speaker 2: Was except that, you know, there's a difference between I mean,
Speaker 2: unless you're saying that there wasn't in this era. There's
Speaker 2: a difference between male handkerchiefs and female handkerchiefs, and that
Speaker 2: men's handkerchiefs tend to be, you know, much more simply
Speaker 2: adorned and if they may even have you know, they
Speaker 2: may even have a monogram on it, whereas a female
Speaker 2: may have. I'm going based on my grandmother's handkerchiefs when
Speaker 2: she treasured and passed down, they were very elaborate.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm sure, I know. I don't think you know
Speaker 3: there was I don't have any you know, photographic you know,
Speaker 3: things I can look at to see what they was
Speaker 3: left with. I don't. I would tend to believe that
Speaker 3: they were not monogrammed, and I would tend to believe
Speaker 3: they were not that elaborate per se. But I would
Speaker 3: say they were most likely to be of the color white.
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you why, because when Doyle was about
Speaker 3: fourteen years old, he actually writes about an event at
Speaker 3: his school. And I told you, if you remember, I
Speaker 3: told you he had a very bad school experience. He
Speaker 3: was beaten basically every day, beaten by the professors, and
Speaker 3: the faculty would always whip him with this thick rubber
Speaker 3: tlly on his hand and stripped the skin off his hand.
Speaker 3: I mean, he was really abusive kid. But when he
Speaker 3: was fourteen, he wrote his mother that a teacher named
Speaker 3: mister Crea And I'm going to tell that because this
Speaker 3: is important for the shot clothes people. C hri A.
Speaker 3: This teacher, mister Crea basically said Doyle Doyle, I'm going
Speaker 3: to kill you in the middle of vesper servers and
Speaker 3: started waving a Doyle writist. He started waving a white
Speaker 3: handkerchief around over his head, screaming Doyle Doyle, I'm going
Speaker 3: to kill you. I'm going to kill you. So he
Speaker 3: actually uses the word white handkerchief and that that story
Speaker 3: actually was meant to as a as a way to
Speaker 3: tell his mother that I know you're having an affair
Speaker 3: with with the lodger Brian Waller without a human having
Speaker 3: to say it, because he tells his mother that I
Speaker 3: was with my teacher and we were reading a story
Speaker 3: called Durraicher, and d Raicher is a German word for revenge.
Speaker 3: He actually tells his mother this, and then he says,
Speaker 3: you should read the book. You should get the book
Speaker 3: in English. Now the book is written by Ada Lee Wald,
Speaker 3: so that means it doesn't mean anything because it's a
Speaker 3: German book. But he had an English name, which was
Speaker 3: Kurt Waller, and the name of the mother's well lodger
Speaker 3: at the time was Brian Waller. So it was a
Speaker 3: way of saying, I know that you're having an affair.
Speaker 3: And that's why he used the word korea because if
Speaker 3: you in the first Sherlock Holmestail, there's two sections where
Speaker 3: the killer, well the murderer of the Jefferson basically writes
Speaker 3: on the wall the word rach in blood. Well, those
Speaker 3: are the those are the five letters that are in
Speaker 3: krea r A c h e are the same letters
Speaker 3: as an anagram of krea c h r e a.
Speaker 3: So rach in German means revenge. So it was his
Speaker 3: way of telling his mom, I know you're very educated.
Speaker 3: You're going to find the book. You're going to know
Speaker 3: the name of the book in English is written by Waller,
Speaker 3: and you're going to understand that the white handkerchief is
Speaker 3: a method of infidelity, and you're going to know I
Speaker 3: know that you're you're sleeping with this guy in the house.
Speaker 3: It's it's Conan Doyle's way of saying, he's really brilliant,
Speaker 3: but he's not gonna he's not going to embarrass you.
Speaker 2: An alternate meaning of of Kurt is wolf.
Speaker 3: Oh, it could be world for you to go yeah, wolf,
Speaker 3: and she's clothing Yeah. Absolutely.
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