1
00:00:16,271 --> 00:00:16,711
Speaker 1: Pushkin.

2
00:00:20,231 --> 00:00:23,671
Speaker 2: Hey Fiasco listeners, it's Leon Napok. I am here to

3
00:00:23,711 --> 00:00:25,951
Speaker 2: tell you about my new show. It might not be

4
00:00:26,031 --> 00:00:28,231
Speaker 2: exactly what you're used to from a guy best known

5
00:00:28,271 --> 00:00:31,031
Speaker 2: for making history podcasts, but it is, in its own

6
00:00:31,071 --> 00:00:35,711
Speaker 2: way scandalous. The series is called Only Fantasy. It's all

7
00:00:35,751 --> 00:00:39,671
Speaker 2: about the wide world of OnlyFans, the website that ushered

8
00:00:39,711 --> 00:00:42,991
Speaker 2: in a revolution in online porn and has radically lowered

9
00:00:42,991 --> 00:00:45,511
Speaker 2: the barrier to entry for sex work to the point

10
00:00:45,551 --> 00:00:48,071
Speaker 2: where there are now more than four million people on

11
00:00:48,111 --> 00:00:51,631
Speaker 2: the platform selling access to their private photos and videos.

12
00:00:52,111 --> 00:00:55,431
Speaker 2: But as I learned during my reporting, photos and videos

13
00:00:55,591 --> 00:00:59,191
Speaker 2: are only the beginning. It turns out the main export

14
00:00:59,231 --> 00:01:03,631
Speaker 2: on OnlyFans is attention. Subscribers are paying not just to look,

15
00:01:03,871 --> 00:01:07,071
Speaker 2: but to feel they're on there to have conversations and

16
00:01:07,151 --> 00:01:12,151
Speaker 2: crushes and semi imaginary relationships. This confused and surprised me,

17
00:01:12,511 --> 00:01:14,711
Speaker 2: and to be honest, I was skeptical and more than

18
00:01:14,751 --> 00:01:17,711
Speaker 2: a little judgmental, all of which led me down a

19
00:01:17,791 --> 00:01:21,351
Speaker 2: year long reporting journey alongside my co host, comedian and

20
00:01:21,471 --> 00:01:25,751
Speaker 2: OnlyFans creator Gracy Kanaan. Together, Gracie and I did some

21
00:01:25,791 --> 00:01:28,391
Speaker 2: of the most shocking and personal interviews I've ever been

22
00:01:28,431 --> 00:01:31,231
Speaker 2: a part of, and we ended up documenting what feels

23
00:01:31,231 --> 00:01:35,071
Speaker 2: like a genuinely new and genuinely strange phenomenon that has,

24
00:01:35,151 --> 00:01:38,231
Speaker 2: without a doubt changed millions of lives in all kinds

25
00:01:38,271 --> 00:01:41,951
Speaker 2: of unpredictable ways. Only Fantasy is a show about the

26
00:01:42,031 --> 00:01:46,351
Speaker 2: changing nature of sex, work, adult entertainment, and human intimacy itself.

27
00:01:46,991 --> 00:01:48,871
Speaker 2: You're about to hear a preview of the show, and

28
00:01:48,911 --> 00:01:51,431
Speaker 2: if you like what you hear, please go find Only

29
00:01:51,471 --> 00:01:54,711
Speaker 2: Fantasy wherever you get your podcasts, or you can binge

30
00:01:54,751 --> 00:01:58,631
Speaker 2: all episodes now add free on Audible Enjoy.

31
00:02:00,191 --> 00:02:00,311
Speaker 1: So.

32
00:02:00,991 --> 00:02:03,991
Speaker 2: I know we've talked about this before, but obviously not

33
00:02:04,031 --> 00:02:06,951
Speaker 2: in a whole lot of detail, So you should feel

34
00:02:06,991 --> 00:02:13,471
Speaker 2: free to disclose as much as little as you want. Obviously, Yeah,

35
00:02:13,511 --> 00:02:15,311
Speaker 2: I'm your brother. It could be awkward, but it doesn't

36
00:02:15,351 --> 00:02:15,631
Speaker 2: have to be.

37
00:02:15,911 --> 00:02:18,631
Speaker 3: I don't think it's awkward. I've had people from only

38
00:02:18,711 --> 00:02:21,111
Speaker 3: fans message you, so I can't get more awkward.

39
00:02:21,391 --> 00:02:23,871
Speaker 1: Dude, I cannot believe that I forgot that.

40
00:02:24,271 --> 00:02:27,071
Speaker 3: Yeah.

41
00:02:27,111 --> 00:02:30,511
Speaker 2: My sister Annie just turned twenty four, which makes her

42
00:02:30,551 --> 00:02:33,871
Speaker 2: almost twenty years younger than me. She was raised by

43
00:02:33,871 --> 00:02:36,311
Speaker 2: a different mom in a different household, and she has

44
00:02:36,391 --> 00:02:37,951
Speaker 2: led a very different life from me.

45
00:02:38,311 --> 00:02:43,671
Speaker 3: Mister Harvard, mister I got a diploma. I can't relate,

46
00:02:43,711 --> 00:02:46,231
Speaker 3: but it's okay, you're doing great.

47
00:02:46,791 --> 00:02:51,111
Speaker 2: Me. Over the years, I've mainly heard about Annie's adventures

48
00:02:51,111 --> 00:02:53,911
Speaker 2: and phone calls like this one. She lives in Chicago

49
00:02:53,951 --> 00:02:56,391
Speaker 2: and I live in New York, and we talk fairly regularly,

50
00:02:56,591 --> 00:02:59,471
Speaker 2: often on FaceTime while I'm walking my dog and she's

51
00:02:59,511 --> 00:03:03,071
Speaker 2: at work. She's a bartender these days, so she's often

52
00:03:03,071 --> 00:03:05,511
Speaker 2: telling me about her regulars and sending me photos of

53
00:03:05,551 --> 00:03:07,271
Speaker 2: the cash she has stacked up at the end of

54
00:03:07,311 --> 00:03:10,031
Speaker 2: a long night of tips. But there was a time

55
00:03:10,071 --> 00:03:12,951
Speaker 2: I'm starting when she was around nineteen years old, when

56
00:03:12,991 --> 00:03:15,471
Speaker 2: Annie was telling me about a different kind of hustle.

57
00:03:16,831 --> 00:03:19,191
Speaker 3: Do you remember that one girl that I lived with,

58
00:03:19,351 --> 00:03:21,031
Speaker 3: the blondie.

59
00:03:21,431 --> 00:03:22,711
Speaker 1: No, she was.

60
00:03:22,671 --> 00:03:24,270
Speaker 3: The Only Fans creator.

61
00:03:24,631 --> 00:03:26,430
Speaker 1: She was the first girl you met who was on there.

62
00:03:26,551 --> 00:03:29,471
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she was the one who before was like,

63
00:03:29,511 --> 00:03:31,991
Speaker 3: since you won't do escorting with me, would you do

64
00:03:32,151 --> 00:03:33,191
Speaker 3: Only Fans with me?

65
00:03:33,391 --> 00:03:36,991
Speaker 1: Oh? God, yeah, Okay, I remember how you're remembering.

66
00:03:37,951 --> 00:03:40,631
Speaker 2: At the time, all I knew about OnlyFans was that

67
00:03:40,671 --> 00:03:43,151
Speaker 2: it was a website where regular people like my little

68
00:03:43,191 --> 00:03:46,711
Speaker 2: sister apparently could make money selling naked pictures of themselves.

69
00:03:47,551 --> 00:03:50,911
Speaker 2: Knowing that Annie was on OnlyFans made me apprehensive, to

70
00:03:50,911 --> 00:03:53,591
Speaker 2: say the least, but Annie assured me that it was

71
00:03:53,631 --> 00:03:56,591
Speaker 2: a safe alternative to real life sex work, and that

72
00:03:56,671 --> 00:03:59,351
Speaker 2: her friend the Blondie was showing her the ropes and

73
00:03:59,431 --> 00:04:00,471
Speaker 2: keeping her out of trouble.

74
00:04:01,191 --> 00:04:03,351
Speaker 3: She would be like, oh, yeah, so you could post

75
00:04:03,431 --> 00:04:06,951
Speaker 3: like lingerie photos this and that, and then if people

76
00:04:07,071 --> 00:04:09,671
Speaker 3: like what they see, they'll message you and then you

77
00:04:09,711 --> 00:04:12,511
Speaker 3: can on them an album. That the only way to

78
00:04:12,591 --> 00:04:14,631
Speaker 3: unlock it is they have to pay a certain amount.

79
00:04:15,031 --> 00:04:17,991
Speaker 3: They don't know what's on it. It could be bullshit photos,

80
00:04:18,351 --> 00:04:21,911
Speaker 3: old photos, but they have to pay to unlock it,

81
00:04:21,950 --> 00:04:24,671
Speaker 3: and that money is instantly in your account once they've

82
00:04:24,671 --> 00:04:25,031
Speaker 3: done it.

83
00:04:26,111 --> 00:04:27,830
Speaker 1: And so, how much was your friend making?

84
00:04:30,951 --> 00:04:33,911
Speaker 3: She was making I think fifteen k a month.

85
00:04:34,791 --> 00:04:38,351
Speaker 1: Fifteen k a month, mm hmm, that's a lot of money.

86
00:04:39,191 --> 00:04:39,391
Speaker 3: Yeah.

87
00:04:40,311 --> 00:04:42,711
Speaker 2: What I remember Annie emphasizing to me back when she

88
00:04:42,791 --> 00:04:45,510
Speaker 2: first started OnlyFans was that it was as much a

89
00:04:45,551 --> 00:04:49,511
Speaker 2: marketing job as anything. She wasn't an influencer by any means,

90
00:04:50,031 --> 00:04:53,431
Speaker 2: but she did have a couple hundred followers across her Twitter, Instagram,

91
00:04:53,471 --> 00:04:56,671
Speaker 2: and Snapchat, where she would post free pictures intended to

92
00:04:56,751 --> 00:05:00,231
Speaker 2: lure in new subscribers. Each account was under the same

93
00:05:00,271 --> 00:05:04,151
Speaker 2: pseudonym Annie used on OnlyFans, so people who found her

94
00:05:04,191 --> 00:05:06,191
Speaker 2: and liked what they saw could then sign up for

95
00:05:06,271 --> 00:05:09,151
Speaker 2: a few bucks a month to see her more exclusive content.

96
00:05:09,751 --> 00:05:13,231
Speaker 3: In the the early days, having to only show a

97
00:05:13,271 --> 00:05:17,311
Speaker 3: couple of photos and then making a thousand bucks was great.

98
00:05:16,711 --> 00:05:19,471
Speaker 3: As an eighteen nineteen year old, I didn't know what

99
00:05:19,511 --> 00:05:22,190
Speaker 3: to do with myself. I really thought I was hot shit.

100
00:05:23,191 --> 00:05:26,111
Speaker 2: Annie and her roommate Blondie would cross promote each other

101
00:05:26,191 --> 00:05:28,511
Speaker 2: on their pages in order to bring in new subscribers,

102
00:05:29,151 --> 00:05:31,391
Speaker 2: and within a month, Annie said she had one hundred

103
00:05:31,431 --> 00:05:34,311
Speaker 2: paying customers, which sometimes made it hard to keep up

104
00:05:34,351 --> 00:05:35,231
Speaker 2: with her dms.

105
00:05:35,431 --> 00:05:38,671
Speaker 3: It was very hard being like, oh my god, Jake,

106
00:05:38,751 --> 00:05:39,791
Speaker 3: Oh fuck, this isn't Jake.

107
00:05:39,951 --> 00:05:43,111
Speaker 1: Back back back, back back back, Oh my god. Fuck.

108
00:05:43,151 --> 00:05:45,031
Speaker 3: Got to scroll up and see whose name this is.

109
00:05:45,791 --> 00:05:48,190
Speaker 2: Annie told me that during her best month ever, she

110
00:05:48,271 --> 00:05:52,111
Speaker 2: brought in eighteen thousand dollars. By that point, it was

111
00:05:52,151 --> 00:05:56,191
Speaker 2: the COVID pandemic and OnlyFans had exploded in popularity thanks

112
00:05:56,191 --> 00:06:01,311
Speaker 2: to subscribers who are looking to escape isolation. The thing

113
00:06:01,391 --> 00:06:04,071
Speaker 2: we're all doing to keep ourselves safe can't have an

114
00:06:04,111 --> 00:06:06,751
Speaker 2: adverse health outcome, which is loneliness and love.

115
00:06:06,831 --> 00:06:07,591
Speaker 1: Talking so much.

116
00:06:07,431 --> 00:06:09,951
Speaker 3: About all the physical enlistes, but I think a lot

117
00:06:10,151 --> 00:06:12,391
Speaker 3: people are worried about their mental health right now.

118
00:06:12,591 --> 00:06:17,031
Speaker 4: Social interaction now is going to be three things challenging, creative,

119
00:06:17,271 --> 00:06:19,071
Speaker 4: and important more than ever before.

120
00:06:19,791 --> 00:06:22,751
Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty alone, so the month after

121
00:06:22,831 --> 00:06:27,070
Speaker 2: lockdown started, Only Fans reported a seventy five percent jump

122
00:06:27,111 --> 00:06:30,630
Speaker 2: in new subscriber sign ups. But the growth wasn't just

123
00:06:30,751 --> 00:06:33,631
Speaker 2: on the subscriber side. There was also a slew of

124
00:06:33,671 --> 00:06:36,831
Speaker 2: new creators on the site. Anyone stuck at home and

125
00:06:36,951 --> 00:06:39,991
Speaker 2: unable to work their regular job could now make content

126
00:06:40,031 --> 00:06:44,191
Speaker 2: with minimal overhead and earn cash fast. This only Fans

127
00:06:44,271 --> 00:06:46,871
Speaker 2: incomon It scarier real and it's parier quick.

128
00:06:46,991 --> 00:06:49,471
Speaker 3: That first night I made about like thirteen hundred dollars,

129
00:06:49,751 --> 00:06:51,671
Speaker 3: Like this is insane.

130
00:06:51,951 --> 00:06:56,111
Speaker 2: Pretty soon OnlyFans wasn't just a dirty little secret, It

131
00:06:56,151 --> 00:06:57,511
Speaker 2: was a cultural phenomenon.

132
00:06:57,631 --> 00:07:00,510
Speaker 4: According to a piece in BuzzFeed, selling yourself online is

133
00:07:00,511 --> 00:07:03,991
Speaker 4: the hot new trend quote, everybody is making porn at

134
00:07:03,991 --> 00:07:07,710
Speaker 4: home now. Only Fans reports at seven or eight thousand

135
00:07:07,791 --> 00:07:08,431
Speaker 4: new women.

136
00:07:08,231 --> 00:07:09,031
Speaker 1: Sign up every day.

137
00:07:09,431 --> 00:07:12,351
Speaker 4: Our daughters are selling themselves for food and rent, and

138
00:07:12,391 --> 00:07:14,231
Speaker 4: BuzzFeed is telling us it's cool.

139
00:07:17,831 --> 00:07:19,590
Speaker 1: The thing is it kind of was cool.

140
00:07:20,151 --> 00:07:22,991
Speaker 2: Even Beyonce, one of the most famous people in the world,

141
00:07:23,071 --> 00:07:25,751
Speaker 2: felt moved to name drop OnlyFans in a song You

142
00:07:25,871 --> 00:07:31,991
Speaker 2: Have Sick Time Dance, she might sought out OnlyFans.

143
00:07:32,071 --> 00:07:32,471
Speaker 1: Michael B.

144
00:07:32,671 --> 00:07:34,751
Speaker 2: Jordan went on Jimmy Kimmel and joked that he was

145
00:07:34,791 --> 00:07:37,471
Speaker 2: making an OnlyFans page for his mustache. I got only

146
00:07:37,551 --> 00:07:40,831
Speaker 2: fans coming, send him only fans account if they want not.

147
00:07:42,831 --> 00:07:44,151
Speaker 1: All types of crazy stuff.

148
00:07:44,151 --> 00:07:45,431
Speaker 3: It's it's gonna get Wow, It's.

149
00:07:45,271 --> 00:07:49,111
Speaker 2: Gonna Part of what was amazing about OnlyFans explosive growth

150
00:07:49,311 --> 00:07:51,631
Speaker 2: was that, for more than twenty years, the world of

151
00:07:51,671 --> 00:07:55,031
Speaker 2: adult entertainment had been starved by the abundance of free

152
00:07:55,071 --> 00:07:58,911
Speaker 2: online porn. With free porn available on the internet, is

153
00:07:58,951 --> 00:08:00,231
Speaker 2: this the porn apocalypse?

154
00:08:00,831 --> 00:08:02,111
Speaker 1: How do you compete with free?

155
00:08:02,671 --> 00:08:05,111
Speaker 2: The situation was akin to that of the music industry

156
00:08:05,151 --> 00:08:09,751
Speaker 2: after Napster. Stolen content was everywhere, and consumer expectations had

157
00:08:09,751 --> 00:08:11,951
Speaker 2: shifted to the point where the idea of paying to

158
00:08:11,991 --> 00:08:17,191
Speaker 2: look at porn seemed utterly irrational and then came OnlyFans.

159
00:08:18,031 --> 00:08:20,471
Speaker 2: At the time of this recording, the platform hosts more

160
00:08:20,511 --> 00:08:24,871
Speaker 2: than four million creators, mostly women, and three hundred million users,

161
00:08:25,071 --> 00:08:29,591
Speaker 2: mostly men. The pay structure is simple. Creators keep eighty

162
00:08:29,631 --> 00:08:32,391
Speaker 2: percent of what they make and OnlyFans takes a twenty

163
00:08:32,391 --> 00:08:36,151
Speaker 2: percent cut. In twenty twenty four, the company took in

164
00:08:36,191 --> 00:08:45,111
Speaker 2: a one point four billion dollar profit. How did OnlyFans

165
00:08:45,151 --> 00:08:48,631
Speaker 2: convince people to start paying for porn again? What was

166
00:08:48,631 --> 00:08:51,511
Speaker 2: it offering that users couldn't get for free somewhere else?

167
00:08:52,550 --> 00:08:55,070
Speaker 2: When I first got curious about this and asked Annie

168
00:08:55,111 --> 00:08:58,271
Speaker 2: about it, she offered an explanation involving a guy who

169
00:08:58,351 --> 00:09:00,711
Speaker 2: once paid her eight hundred bucks to make a video

170
00:09:00,751 --> 00:09:02,430
Speaker 2: of herself wearing a pair of shoes that he had

171
00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:05,151
Speaker 2: bought her and smashing a bunch of corn dogs with

172
00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:06,391
Speaker 2: the high heels.

173
00:09:06,991 --> 00:09:09,550
Speaker 3: I promise you, your favorite porn star is not about

174
00:09:09,590 --> 00:09:11,151
Speaker 3: to call you your name and step on a corn

175
00:09:11,151 --> 00:09:14,030
Speaker 3: dog for you. So like, yes, you can watch porn,

176
00:09:14,070 --> 00:09:16,591
Speaker 3: but those torn stars that you watch will never know

177
00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:20,231
Speaker 3: your name, will never speak to you. These onlyfan girls

178
00:09:20,430 --> 00:09:22,910
Speaker 3: are paid to acknowledge your existence.

179
00:09:24,670 --> 00:09:27,351
Speaker 2: I had always pictured OnlyFans as a one way street,

180
00:09:27,830 --> 00:09:30,790
Speaker 2: a place to publish exclusive content that your most motivated

181
00:09:30,790 --> 00:09:34,910
Speaker 2: fans could pay to look at. End of story. Annie

182
00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:37,790
Speaker 2: told me that I'd been missing the point. Most of

183
00:09:37,830 --> 00:09:40,751
Speaker 2: the money people made on OnlyFans, she said, came from

184
00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:44,030
Speaker 2: more than just being looked at. It came from maintaining

185
00:09:44,151 --> 00:09:48,391
Speaker 2: quasi personal relationships with subscribers over weeks or months or

186
00:09:48,391 --> 00:09:49,110
Speaker 2: even longer.

187
00:09:51,790 --> 00:09:54,391
Speaker 3: A lot of the people were just lonely and sad,

188
00:09:55,550 --> 00:09:58,631
Speaker 3: so they really just genuinely wanted somebody to text them

189
00:09:58,631 --> 00:10:01,151
Speaker 3: every day, Text them good morning in the morning, good

190
00:10:01,231 --> 00:10:04,030
Speaker 3: night at night. Send them a couple photos. Didn't even

191
00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:07,151
Speaker 3: have to be like naked photos, just cute photos. Some

192
00:10:07,271 --> 00:10:09,790
Speaker 3: were literally like me in an oversized hoodie in front

193
00:10:09,830 --> 00:10:12,670
Speaker 3: of them.

194
00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:13,631
Speaker 2: But not all of them. Annie, you showed me I

195
00:10:13,670 --> 00:10:15,830
Speaker 2: remember it. I remember you showed me a couple free,

196
00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:17,271
Speaker 2: racy things you posted.

197
00:10:17,391 --> 00:10:19,631
Speaker 3: Not all of them, but there were a lot of

198
00:10:19,631 --> 00:10:20,111
Speaker 3: the times.

199
00:10:20,231 --> 00:10:21,870
Speaker 1: They want you in a hoodie, wanted you.

200
00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:24,271
Speaker 3: In a hoodie, wanted you in a messy bun. They

201
00:10:24,351 --> 00:10:26,711
Speaker 3: wanted you to not look like they were paying for you.

202
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:28,391
Speaker 1: Basically right.

203
00:10:29,391 --> 00:10:32,871
Speaker 2: What I realized talking to Annie was that OnlyFans wasn't

204
00:10:32,910 --> 00:10:35,910
Speaker 2: a porn site. It was more like a directory of

205
00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:39,190
Speaker 2: people who, for a price, would participate in an extended

206
00:10:39,231 --> 00:10:41,830
Speaker 2: fantasy in which the two of you were in a relationship.

207
00:10:42,590 --> 00:10:44,950
Speaker 2: According to a study that looked at the transaction histories

208
00:10:44,991 --> 00:10:48,831
Speaker 2: of more than a million Only Fans subscribers, messaging drives

209
00:10:48,871 --> 00:10:52,910
Speaker 2: almost seventy percent of revenue on the platform. What Annie

210
00:10:52,991 --> 00:10:55,430
Speaker 2: and her fellow Only Fans creators were offering was a

211
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:58,991
Speaker 2: distinctly twenty first century rendition of a staple product from

212
00:10:59,030 --> 00:11:01,991
Speaker 2: the Annals of sex work, the girlfriend experience.

213
00:11:02,511 --> 00:11:05,271
Speaker 3: Girlfriend experience. If you paid for that, it's like seventy

214
00:11:05,310 --> 00:11:07,871
Speaker 3: two hours of a fake girlfriend. So she'll call you,

215
00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:11,590
Speaker 3: she'll text you, she'll FaceTime you, she'll send you photos.

216
00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:14,550
Speaker 3: She'll basically talk to you as if you're a boyfriend.

217
00:11:14,271 --> 00:11:16,471
Speaker 1: For like two days, but not meet up in person.

218
00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:19,271
Speaker 3: Nope, all over the phone.

219
00:11:19,351 --> 00:11:22,871
Speaker 2: I know I sound skeptical here, and I was, But

220
00:11:22,910 --> 00:11:26,471
Speaker 2: then I remembered something I myself had once enjoyed, the

221
00:11:26,511 --> 00:11:30,470
Speaker 2: digital girlfriend experience, when I was a teenager chatting voraciously

222
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:36,070
Speaker 2: with someone I'd never met on AOL instant messenger. Her

223
00:11:36,111 --> 00:11:40,030
Speaker 2: name was Jessica. A friend of mine from summer camp

224
00:11:40,111 --> 00:11:42,111
Speaker 2: gave me her screen name and encouraged me to send

225
00:11:42,111 --> 00:11:45,190
Speaker 2: her a message. That's it for this preview of Only Fantasy.

226
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:48,310
Speaker 2: Find the show wherever you get your podcasts, or if

227
00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:50,751
Speaker 2: you want to binge the whole series now add free

228
00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:51,631
Speaker 2: go to Audible