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Speaker 1: The way we use and rested as a platform to

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Speaker 1: make sure these guys understand when you get out there,

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Speaker 1: you want to be competitive because the world is a competition.

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Speaker 1: When you also you want to be competitive in the

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Speaker 1: right way. I think the greatest class room for any

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Speaker 1: human being his athletics. You know, it's contine to learn

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Speaker 1: a lesson because there's something about the truth when it

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Speaker 1: hurts when you go out there and you're not prepare,

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Speaker 1: at least in our individual sport, you can't hide. This

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Speaker 1: is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy

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Speaker 1: balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education

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Speaker 1: and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the Reformed

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Speaker 1: Sports Project podcast. Joining me today is coach Othello Johnson,

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Speaker 1: better known as ot head Wrestling coach at the University

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Speaker 1: of North Carolina Pembroke. Coach Johnson is one of the

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Speaker 1: most successful coaches in the program's history, guiding his wrestlers

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Speaker 1: to success on the map, in the classroom and out

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Speaker 1: in the world. With Coach Johnson at the Helm, twenty

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Speaker 1: two wrestlers have reached the n c A Championships and

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Speaker 1: twenty wrestlers have earned National Wrestling Coaches Association All Academic

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Speaker 1: Team KNOTS. Coach. I know you just got out of

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Speaker 1: practice and you're taking time, and I appreciate you hopping

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Speaker 1: on here. Absolutely. Man. It's great to be back on

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Speaker 1: the map, back in action. So I love to get

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Speaker 1: back in any way I can. Obviously as a parent

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Speaker 1: of two young ones, you know, love the content and

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Speaker 1: love what you guys are doing well. I appreciate your coach,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad you started there because you have a

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Speaker 1: very unique and fascinating background, and I want to get

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Speaker 1: into that because your wife, both of you college athletes

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Speaker 1: highly successful. You're also sports parents. Like you mentioned, you've

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Speaker 1: got two daughters, so I know that based on our conversations,

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Speaker 1: this topic of youth sports development is something near and

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Speaker 1: dear to your heart. You grew up if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 1: in Liberia, came over to the States. Now you're the

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Speaker 1: head coach of the D two program, one of the

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Speaker 1: best in the country, had a lot of success, and

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Speaker 1: kind of where I want to start with you is this.

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Speaker 1: We have this culture here in the States, there's a

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Speaker 1: race to the head start everything in youth sports. It

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Speaker 1: seems like it's being done with intent and by intent,

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems like there's this end goal, like

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Speaker 1: we bring our kids to play eight year old softball, baseball,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, and it's like, well, this is the

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Speaker 1: first stepping stones to a college scholarship, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, man, it seems a little twisted. What

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Speaker 1: I'd love to ask you is this When you were

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Speaker 1: in Liberia, you know, growing up, what was it like.

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Speaker 1: Was there any talking scholarships going up? Were you specializing

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Speaker 1: in sports back in the day. Well, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you one thing. I played the world sport, which is soccer.

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Speaker 1: That was one thing every single kid played. You sent

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Speaker 1: you if you're born and your parents had enough, you

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Speaker 1: might got lucky and get an actual soccer ball. But

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Speaker 1: if that wasn't the case, I mean, we did everything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about taking some paper and rolling

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Speaker 1: it up in the ball and taping it up and

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Speaker 1: just kicking it around and just things like that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and there were very very few of any organized soccer

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Speaker 1: league soccer team. It was literally you got told to

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Speaker 1: get to heack out of the house and go get dirty, essentially,

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Speaker 1: and we just went to the park which were made

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Speaker 1: of dirt, and you know, picked teams, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we got after it. We got after it for hours

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Speaker 1: on end. There are very few rules obviously, there were

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Speaker 1: no like organized official rules. UM. And that's at least

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Speaker 1: from a Liberia standpoint, we didn't have, you know, as

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Speaker 1: many organized things as obviously I've become a cut into

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Speaker 1: here in the States and so that was definitely different. Um.

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Speaker 1: I guess, just to add on to that story, when

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Speaker 1: I came to the States, you know, it was here

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Speaker 1: for a few years, got to high school, continue to

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Speaker 1: play soccer. But I couldn't afford to play soccer in

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Speaker 1: middle school and junior high because my aunt was a

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Speaker 1: single parent raising us, me and my siblings, and you know,

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Speaker 1: to be able to play club soccer. It was about

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Speaker 1: a little over three hundred dollars to join the team.

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Speaker 1: You know, at that time, I was part of whether

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Speaker 1: they called ODP Olympic developing soccer clubs. So I couldn't

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Speaker 1: afford to do it. Fortunately for me, I was with

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Speaker 1: a good friends with some guys on the team that

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Speaker 1: that had families that were able to do and so

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Speaker 1: they were able to help me get on the team.

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Speaker 1: But still then there were still some obstacles. I had

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Speaker 1: a cross. You can tell there were kids there that

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Speaker 1: you know, parents literally were there with the idea that

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Speaker 1: they can get the middle school kid to be looked

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Speaker 1: at by a college or college coach. You know why

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Speaker 1: he's playing club soccer, which you know, for librarians and

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Speaker 1: most most internationals, soccer is something everyone did, you know,

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Speaker 1: so people didn't really look at it as a path

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Speaker 1: to a scholarship. So to ask you a question, there

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Speaker 1: was no scholarship idea. I mean for most of us,

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Speaker 1: just be able to play the sport until we were

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Speaker 1: adults and even into a aulthood was just a joy

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Speaker 1: for us. Um. You know, very very few people got

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Speaker 1: a chance to do it at the next level. You know,

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Speaker 1: very famous George Weya, you know, got to play. He

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Speaker 1: was Football of the Year in Europe soccer for a

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Speaker 1: while and he saw our president. But I mean we

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Speaker 1: all idolized that guy. But you know, very few thought

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Speaker 1: about you know, hey, I'm gonna do this with my

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Speaker 1: kids and make sure my kids waging up going to

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Speaker 1: sleep playing soccer. Now, we did it just because we

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Speaker 1: loved it. Unbeing us to us, we were developing other

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Speaker 1: muscles and our bodies and just developing friendship and camaraderie

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Speaker 1: with our friends, and you know that's what that's what

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Speaker 1: it was about. You know, it was never about you know,

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Speaker 1: I gotta get the nicest shoes. We didn't have shoes

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Speaker 1: for that matter. You know, my aunt who was in

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Speaker 1: the States, she came back to visit us before the

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Speaker 1: Civil War broke out, and she brought two soccer cleets,

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Speaker 1: red soccer cleets and a black soccer cleet. And so

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Speaker 1: my brother Buster and I would call red boot and

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Speaker 1: black boot so um for us just to have that,

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Speaker 1: that was that was something crazy that a lot of

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Speaker 1: our friends didn't have him, you know who outlized for that.

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Speaker 1: And that was one of the things I remember most

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Speaker 1: about it, not the fact that we were potentially preparing

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Speaker 1: ourselves for scholarships. That's a great point. And you bring

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Speaker 1: up the free play, right, go out there, get creative,

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Speaker 1: But you're also bringing up the competition, you know, the

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Speaker 1: backyard compete with siblings. I mean unstructured right, no adults around,

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Speaker 1: kind of making rules. And it's kind of the total opposite.

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Speaker 1: It almost sounds like I'm going back in time. Reminds

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Speaker 1: me of my child that I know times have changed.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be one of those people that

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was growing up, you know, times

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Speaker 1: were so much better or YadA YadA. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot to learn, you know, from those

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Speaker 1: experiences and and you know, being a college coach and

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Speaker 1: someone who's in the process of recruiting all it's a

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Speaker 1: major part of what you do. You know, how much

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Speaker 1: does that diversity, you know, the exposure to different things

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Speaker 1: help overall athleticism and competitiveness versus someone who may have

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Speaker 1: been just hyper specialized from a young age. Oh what

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Speaker 1: kind of doubt. You know, some of our better wrestlers

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Speaker 1: participating multiple sports throughout high school, um various Seldom are

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Speaker 1: some of our better guys, you know, specialists in wrestling,

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Speaker 1: which we have some. I'll give you an example. A

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Speaker 1: young man on my team. He ran cross country obviously

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Speaker 1: wrestle and he played tennis. You know, two sports that

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Speaker 1: you know, you put together, you get you know, a

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Speaker 1: combination of speed, quickness, direction, change, which is what you

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Speaker 1: need in wrestling. You know, and I'm saying those things

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Speaker 1: whether he knew it, he knew it at the time.

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Speaker 1: When those things help them with this wrestling, they help

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Speaker 1: them be more competitive, you know, obviously, you know the

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Speaker 1: three sports I just named are on individual sports, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time he's still developing those muscles and

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Speaker 1: and just being competitive in a different arena. Even though

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Speaker 1: wrestling was his main arena, he still stepped out of

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Speaker 1: his comfort zone and and partook in other things. So

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Speaker 1: we have quite a few guys on our team that

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Speaker 1: you know, come from vast as the backgrounds, and I

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Speaker 1: think that says a lot about who they are and

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Speaker 1: what they bring to the table. So I think for

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Speaker 1: us at Division two left better guys, you know, they

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Speaker 1: don't burn out as quickly because they haven't been on

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Speaker 1: the map for sixteen seventeen years. Only at a certain

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Speaker 1: point that becomes an issue. Now you have your outliers.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'll be remissed or not say you have

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Speaker 1: your outliers that you know, so them, there's no trusting

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Speaker 1: that that's burned out because you know they just love

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Speaker 1: it and whether it's that's self made on it, that's

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Speaker 1: being pushed by someone else, they don't know what that means,

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Speaker 1: and they don't burn out. But we do have very

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Speaker 1: few guys that have been specialists throughout their development of years,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate that I think. I think it's important,

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Speaker 1: and I think as a coach, that's one thing that

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Speaker 1: my wife and I have tried to do a good

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Speaker 1: job of making sure we don't allow our daughter to special.

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Speaker 1: We know what she wants to do, what she's talking

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Speaker 1: about now, but we've made sure she's She just finished

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Speaker 1: her first competitive volleyball season and junior high she just

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Speaker 1: tried out for a basketball team yesterday, and uh last

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Speaker 1: last summer towards the end, I guess I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what part of COVID it is. You know, she

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Speaker 1: participating rank softball for the first time, and she loves

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Speaker 1: all that, and we're looking to make sure she gets

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Speaker 1: in the track. Those are all sports we both played,

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Speaker 1: and I understand the importance of it. As someone that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean a stranger. I know development wise that helped

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Speaker 1: me become a helped me become where I am. I

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Speaker 1: can't meet a stranger. There's not a person that I

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Speaker 1: can meet. I don't have the confidence I can go

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Speaker 1: up to talk to him and know that I belong

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Speaker 1: in the same room. I can carry in a conversation.

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Speaker 1: I feel confident that I can, you know, reach anyone's

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Speaker 1: intelligence level. You know, twin extent, you know, so I

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Speaker 1: think I think for me, sports help me develop those

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Speaker 1: confidence and sports helped me be more confident in myself

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Speaker 1: to be able to go at any rate and know

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Speaker 1: that I can succeed. There you're talking, man, You're bringing

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Speaker 1: up some cool stuff and it's near and dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart. And I noticed to you to the life

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Speaker 1: lesson things that you pull out of sports because as parents,

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Speaker 1: whereas a lot of parents and kids out there, they're

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Speaker 1: chasing these external things, right, these and meet gratification things,

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Speaker 1: these championships, these trophies which you listen. I appreciate kids

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Speaker 1: and parents that they're motivated by success, right. I think

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Speaker 1: that transfers to life. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: I believe there's a value proposition as a parent to

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Speaker 1: look at it from the standpoint of, Hey, I want

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Speaker 1: my kid to learn about being accountable. Yeah, I want

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Speaker 1: my kid to learn about taking responsibility for their actions.

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Speaker 1: I want them to know if they're to go to

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Speaker 1: bed Ley and they're not prepared for early practiced, like

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have to pay the price for that. I

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Speaker 1: think it's very easy today as a parent to get

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Speaker 1: lost in that. You know, I mean to get lost

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Speaker 1: and not realize that, hey, there's so much more out there,

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Speaker 1: especially these young ages than just performance right then, just

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Speaker 1: the wins and losses. Can you talk about how you

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Speaker 1: navigate that, you know, performance versus lessons or effort type

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Speaker 1: things as a parent, And then also do you use

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Speaker 1: wrestling your coaching, your platform at the college level as

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Speaker 1: a way to teach and prepare these young men for life?

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Speaker 1: I think is a necessity. Um, we've been put in

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Speaker 1: this position, you know. I tell my guys all the time,

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Speaker 1: I get a chance to work out for a living,

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Speaker 1: I get to work out for a living, and every

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Speaker 1: day I wake up, I have to know figure are

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Speaker 1: a way to challenge each and every one of you

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Speaker 1: to be a better version of yourselfing you were yesterday,

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Speaker 1: you know, And by no means that by saying that

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Speaker 1: these guys are not cookies. They are, but there's always

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Speaker 1: another level they can go to, you know, There's always

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Speaker 1: one more thing they can do better than the day before.

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Speaker 1: And for me, I think the things I'm saying to

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Speaker 1: these guys, the way we use and resting as a

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Speaker 1: platform to make sure these guys understand when you get

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Speaker 1: out there, you want to be competitive, because the world

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Speaker 1: is a competition. But you also you want to be

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Speaker 1: competitive in the right way because when you leave the

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Speaker 1: u s CP, you leave the college campus. You know

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Speaker 1: you're no longer protected by the rules of the campus.

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Speaker 1: You're no longer protect probably did campus community. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're all on your own now. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: bube by the rules that are in place, the rules

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Speaker 1: that are being set by the university, there's no way

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to bob o the rules that

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Speaker 1: are set by the world. You know, you have to

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Speaker 1: be have some integrity. You have to be able to

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Speaker 1: make sure that you're doing all the right things because

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, things are gonna catch

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Speaker 1: up to you if you continue to skip things, if

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Speaker 1: you continue to cut corners. You know, those are some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest things. You know, some guys can get

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Speaker 1: away for a little while but eventually catched up. You

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Speaker 1: may not catch the junior athletic career. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when you think everything is smooth than any Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna kept this little corner at work. I'm gonna leave

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Speaker 1: five minutes earlier every day because the boss leaves. You know,

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. You know, well, hey, those five minutes compound

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Speaker 1: at any time. The guy that was, you know, at

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Speaker 1: the bottom of the total polls, so to speak. And

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Speaker 1: we talked about this all the time, whether you're forestring

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Speaker 1: or not, continue to put your time and put your

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Speaker 1: head down with work to what you gotta do because

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Speaker 1: they're gonna pay off in the long run. We've had

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Speaker 1: guys that come in here with zero state accolades, and

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Speaker 1: I mean they might just be a state qualified and

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Speaker 1: they just put their nose down and just keep working

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Speaker 1: and working. Before they know it, after first year of

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Speaker 1: their second stream, in year two they've beat out multiple

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Speaker 1: time state champions to when they starting position. And it's

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Speaker 1: only because they listen, they follow direction, and they take

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Speaker 1: accountability when they're wrong. They don't continue to lie to themselves.

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Speaker 1: That is gonna get better. It's not gonna get better

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Speaker 1: until you make it better. We constantly tell our guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, you may not get what you want now,

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Speaker 1: but if you continue to do the right things, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get what you need when it's time. I think

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Speaker 1: the greatest classroom for any human being as athletics. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's to continue to learn a lesson, because there's something

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Speaker 1: about the truth when it hurts when you go out

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Speaker 1: there and you're not prepared, at least in our individual sport.

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Speaker 1: You can't hide. You cannot hide from the guy across

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Speaker 1: from you because he's gonna prove whether you've been working

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Speaker 1: out on night and he's gonna prove what do you

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Speaker 1: pay the bill? And we talked about did you pay

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Speaker 1: the man you know it? Did you get up when

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to, did you get the extra running? Did

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Speaker 1: you go to bed you know at the time you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to, Because you might be able to pull it

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Speaker 1: off one day, but two days, three days, four days,

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Speaker 1: you start seeing your performance in other areas dwindle. And

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Speaker 1: that's important. That's Ot Johnson had wrestling coach at U

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Speaker 1: n C. Pembroke. When we come back, O T. And

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Speaker 1: I will discuss the importance of paying your dues and

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Speaker 1: what he looks for in wrestling recruits. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the Reform Sports Project podcast. Where O. T. And I

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Speaker 1: left off, we were about to dive into the importance

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Speaker 1: of adversity and developing good athletes and human beings and coaches,

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Speaker 1: advice for middle school, high school kids, and their parents

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Speaker 1: if they want to play sports in college and beyond

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Speaker 1: Lady High School here in Wilming to North Carolina, you know,

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Speaker 1: a very good wrestling program, has some history and some tradition,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we're in that school district. And and

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Speaker 1: my oldest son, Avery, who you know, was getting ready

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Speaker 1: to go there. And there was a kid who's now

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Speaker 1: a senior, one of the best wrestlers in the state,

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Speaker 1: Mark Samuel shout out, two time state champ, is hopefully

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Speaker 1: gonna be going first third here coming up as a senior.

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Speaker 1: Book He was a freshman at Laney. Part of me

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Speaker 1: sophomore at Laney when my son Avery was a freshman.

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Speaker 1: And you know this story, coach, but I think it's

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Speaker 1: important because I think it's sets a good precedent. But

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Speaker 1: before we got to Laney, remember parents telling me or

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Speaker 1: people were like, hey, maybe you should hold Avery back

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Speaker 1: a year. And I'm going, what do you mean to

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Speaker 1: hold them back? Like, you know Mark's there, he you

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Speaker 1: know he's not gonna be able to wrestle it. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: so what, Like he's a straight a. Still got to

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Speaker 1: hold them back? Like what are we like tying his

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Speaker 1: entire identity to wrestling in number one, number two. He's

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Speaker 1: gonna get better being in that room. Like, if you

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Speaker 1: can't beat my Mark at the time, then he's not ready,

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Speaker 1: you know, then he needs to that's gonna help him

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Speaker 1: get better. And that's exactly how it turned out. You know,

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Speaker 1: Marky went off and went fifty. Want to know that

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Speaker 1: your avery was a freshman high school had to pay

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Speaker 1: his dues. I'm a big advocate of that. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot to be learned about paying your dudes.

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Speaker 1: I think parents and kids coach, they're quick to transfer

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Speaker 1: right there, quick to run away from adversity because they're

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Speaker 1: afraid their kids not gonna get seen. As a college

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Speaker 1: coach recruiting, can you talk about why maybe you love

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Speaker 1: those kids that have to fight through that that trial,

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Speaker 1: that tribulation at adversity. In my personal opinion, I think

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Speaker 1: North Carolina has too many state champions. As a North

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Speaker 1: Carolina guy, and obviously I know back in the day

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Speaker 1: my high school coach when he wrestled, there only one

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Speaker 1: state UH division. So it's on the size of schools

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Speaker 1: like four one, one, A two A three, A four.

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Speaker 1: You even have the private school. So as he said,

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Speaker 1: their five state champs every year, and so every kid

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Speaker 1: that wins to state title, you know, it feels like

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Speaker 1: they're entitled to, uh, you know, a scholarship, so on

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Speaker 1: and so fourth. And so when you get a kid

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Speaker 1: like Avery who's got great you know, the resource, he's

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Speaker 1: got great background, he's got great support, and I think

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Speaker 1: you guys did him a solid and I think you

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Speaker 1: guys taught him a lesson. Hey, there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 1: waiting your turn. You know, Laney just wanted to stay

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Speaker 1: titled this year. Now, I think had you guys left

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Speaker 1: and that team wouldn't have been prepared because they would

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Speaker 1: have had one less guy prepared to step in and

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Speaker 1: do his job when he needed to. Now, he didn't

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Speaker 1: win to stay tired, but durn he was prepared. When

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Speaker 1: his number was called, he waited his turn. He wrestled

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Speaker 1: behind the stud And we've had guys here that have

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Speaker 1: done the same thing, where we just continue to preach

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Speaker 1: to him, Hey, come in your job in due time,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get rewarded. And we tell guys in the

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Speaker 1: recruiting process, you know, right now you don't have the

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Speaker 1: accolades to be a scholarship guy. But if you come

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Speaker 1: here you do your job. You don't even have to

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Speaker 1: be a starter. We watch we see guys doing their job.

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Speaker 1: We see them doing rights by the program, right by themselves,

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Speaker 1: helping Nick Daggett be a better version of himself, pushing

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Speaker 1: them in the room, helping play Shade, helping Mike William's,

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Speaker 1: helping Daniel ow Be, you know, helping Rodney Shepherd, all

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Speaker 1: those guys. Someone had to push those guys to become

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Speaker 1: who they were so they couldn't rest on their lords.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's important. You know, when you get

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to be a part of something great, you

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Speaker 1: gotta know what your roleist. And I think too often,

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Speaker 1: you know, kids are not allowed the opportunity to understand

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Speaker 1: and be a start in their role. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: as a parent, when you take that away from your kid, now,

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Speaker 1: your kid expects that to be the case every time

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Speaker 1: they're getting into some adverse situation. My daughter tried out

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Speaker 1: for a local travel softball team this summer. She didn't

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Speaker 1: make the team, and we had every opportunity to go

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Speaker 1: right across the street, you know, din the row and

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Speaker 1: put it in another one. No, we asked her you

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Speaker 1: wanted to play and she said, yeah, well, start training,

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Speaker 1: go talk to the coach asking what you need to

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Speaker 1: work on this summer, and start working on it. Just

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Speaker 1: that I guarantee you there were three four other teams

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Speaker 1: we're going to join. But you know that's not the lesson.

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Speaker 1: The lesson is, hey, I was not good enough. I

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Speaker 1: didn't make the team. I'm gonna go work in my

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Speaker 1: craft and I'm gonna come back next year. Hopefully I've

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Speaker 1: done everything I was I was told to do and

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Speaker 1: I'm good enough to make the team. And I think

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Speaker 1: you know, as a parent that's involved with coaching and recruiting,

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Speaker 1: it's huge when I see these kids that you know

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Speaker 1: may not have want to stay titled. But it's so

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Speaker 1: important to come back, especially for our sport, and show

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Speaker 1: who you are, improved, who you are about towing the

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Speaker 1: line and continue to compete. It's so important to get

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Speaker 1: those guys at the third places, you know, multiple time

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Speaker 1: because they had a stud in their way class for

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Speaker 1: multiple years. You know, it's so easy to change division,

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Speaker 1: move up and move down to division because you know,

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Speaker 1: I can get a state championship in this division because

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Speaker 1: he's not there. You have your nemesis, Charles Barkley had

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Speaker 1: Jordan's right. There was no one else you could go

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Speaker 1: to the league. You have to suck it up, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's the case now. You know, too many

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Speaker 1: kids have a crutch and they can go to a

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Speaker 1: different club and play, so they don't understand what it

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Speaker 1: means to wait. And I think waiting is important because

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Speaker 1: when you wait long enough, you ware with the right

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Speaker 1: firm of mind too. Things happen in the long run,

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Speaker 1: not just from an athletics standpoint. Coach, you're hitting me

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Speaker 1: in the fields here and you're at Unembroke, right UNC.

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Speaker 1: I love talking about this subject because it's D one

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Speaker 1: or bust. You know, I played ball D three. Many

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Speaker 1: different reasons for that. At the time I was graduated

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Speaker 1: high school seventeen, I just wasn't good enough. And number two,

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Speaker 1: i'd have the grades at the time, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you have to be eligible to play and compete at

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Speaker 1: certain levels. In my grades, rite weren't there. And that's okay,

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Speaker 1: end up being the best fit for me. But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about something that you've mentioned to me.

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Speaker 1: In the sport of wrestling in particular. You can go

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Speaker 1: to u n C. Pembroke compete at the Division two level.

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Speaker 1: I think this is fascinating. Go win a national title,

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Speaker 1: go win a dual championship, be a part of something

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Speaker 1: bigger than yourself. And I've always individual things at the

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Speaker 1: D two level, But you could go wrestle in D

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Speaker 1: one opens right if you want to put yourself out

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Speaker 1: there and go wrestle against the best guys in the country.

428
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the D one or bust? But

429
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: also how you still have opportunities to compete against the

430
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 1: highest level, you know, competition at the D one level.

431
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,880
Speaker 1: Wrestling at a u n C Pembroke. Absolutely, I mean

432
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: it's crazy, it's crazy. Uh kids and their parents, you

433
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 1: know again, they're hotwires and they earned it. But at

434
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 1: the same time, there are guys in my personal opinion,

435
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 1: and I think the statistic BA that based on what happens,

436
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, we got kids that we will make a

437
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,640
Speaker 1: significant offer to come here. But because they've been given

438
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 1: a walk on opportunity to the Division one school and

439
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 1: they're so set on calling the selfdivision one wrestlers that

440
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,920
Speaker 1: they're gonna walk on there, and in the grand scheme

441
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,440
Speaker 1: of things, they quit after a semester. They quit after

442
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 1: a couple of months because they can't held it, you know.

443
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: And those guys probably wouldn't data here anyway, because we

444
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: run a pretty tight shift, you know. The only difference

445
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: is we don't have as much money as these guys have,

446
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 1: you know, at the Division one level, but we have

447
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,280
Speaker 1: a great program, we have a great staff, and we

448
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: push our guys. I think what people don't realize is

449
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: North Carolina has the second most Divisional one wrestling program

450
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 1: in the country. And so with that in mind, that

451
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: gives a lot of the kids in our state that

452
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 1: idea that I'm Division one. You know, you can go

453
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 1: to a lower level Division one school and call yourself

454
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 1: Division one. But then we get these open tournaments, they

455
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 1: State Open, the Sitting There Open, you know, the Virginia

456
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: Tech Open, which are our tournament we've attended, and a

457
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 1: lock hands with Division one guys. Our guys are putting

458
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,159
Speaker 1: it to them, you know, And honestly, that's some of

459
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: the reason why some of the Division one schools won't

460
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 1: wrestle us now down here in our state now because

461
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 1: they know we're getting some of the better kids in

462
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 1: the state. Because these kids understand who they are, where

463
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 1: they along and they understand what their ultimate goals are,

464
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,639
Speaker 1: not just from a resting standpom, but it's and I

465
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: think a lot of people forget that. There that's a

466
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 1: big component of college athletics. You've got to have the

467
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 1: right fit. And for some kids, that fit may not

468
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 1: be Division one and may be a Division two institution

469
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 1: that has the right background, the right surrounding, the right

470
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: classroom size, you know, and the degrees feel that they're

471
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: aspiring to potentially make a career, and I take sometime

472
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 1: that's forgotten and and that's unfortunately because you know usc P.

473
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna name my other Division two

474
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 1: opponents because I'm not gonna give him a shout out.

475
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 1: But you know, there are competitive you know, there are

476
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: a lot of formidable Division two in Division three. You know,

477
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 1: my former mentor came here from a Division three program

478
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 1: and he went back to a Division three program, and

479
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 1: you know athletics anymore, it's just it's just so competitive

480
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 1: in our sport with as stew Division one schools as

481
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 1: they are. You're seeing guys now that they get it,

482
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, kids get it. They understand you know, hey,

483
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 1: I can get the same thing done, and I can

484
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: compete against Division one competition, you know, for at least

485
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 1: a month out of the season in November because they're

486
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 1: open termits and I can test myself. And we tell

487
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,520
Speaker 1: guys that all the time. Hey, if you really feel

488
00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: like you want to go Division one and you're not

489
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 1: getting the looks you want, come here. Take care of

490
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 1: business and we'll get you there. And you know, thus far, no,

491
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: it hasn't worked out because when guys getting here, they

492
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 1: realize this is the best place for me. It's a

493
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: bit accomplished everything I need to accomplish as an athlete,

494
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: as a student, socially, emotionally and all those things. And

495
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: they stayed because again, like you said, they are getting

496
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 1: the competition on the weekend basis. You know, they're getting

497
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: trained by formidable coaches and they're enjoying the college experience.

498
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes that's lost on people. You're a

499
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: season is getting going. Kids, parents, they want to hear

500
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,399
Speaker 1: directly from a coach's mouth. What are you looking for?

501
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: What's a piece of advice you know you would give

502
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: to eighth graders, ninth graders, tenth grades, eleventh graders, twelfth grade,

503
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: all these kids who are looking to become college athletes

504
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 1: who are looking to wrestle in college, who are looking

505
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: to play any sport in college, what should they be

506
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: focused on? You know, from a physical standpoint, from a

507
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 1: character standpoint, from an academic standpoint, you got to Mike

508
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 1: tell what to do well. I mean obviously eighth graders,

509
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: you know, I think at that point, you know, you

510
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 1: gotta start focusing on what's important to you and if

511
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 1: you want to be an athlete, I think everyone has

512
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 1: to be on the same page. You and your parents

513
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: have to be on the same page. And parents need

514
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 1: to understand that it's not it's not their life. They're

515
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: part of the journey. Just like when the kids come

516
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: to college, we're part of their journey. We're not them.

517
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 1: You know, we can win everything we want for them.

518
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, they have to be

519
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: the one that has to go out there and compete.

520
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 1: Eighth graders, you really got to still be enjoying your childhood.

521
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: You're still a cow and as much as we want to,

522
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 1: you know, push everyone up to the next level, eighth

523
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: graders are to eighth graders and it should still be

524
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: enjoying their childhood. And I think, you know, for me,

525
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: at that point. I kind of had three sports that

526
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 1: I really loved, and I enjoyed all of them. I

527
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: still had to start to wrestling your in eighth grade.

528
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: My brother Archie came home every day from practice and

529
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: he would woop my butt with the moves that we learned.

530
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 1: So I already have wrestling a small wrestling background, and

531
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: so when I got to high school, I was very green,

532
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, and I think for me, and that would

533
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 1: never really helped me not have a quote unquote burned

534
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: out from the sport because I was enjoying it so

535
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: long once I got and I was in you know,

536
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: but I say, I think doing multiple sports that we

537
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: can do it. And I know a lot of kids can't.

538
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: You know, as a ninth grader, you know it's hard

539
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: to do all those things. But you know, still be

540
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 1: our verse. You know, players main sports you came in

541
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: high school. Um, I think you know Derek Brookston. I

542
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: think Derek Preston your senior year, Him and his cousin

543
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 1: and his friends, they said were gonna play as many

544
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: sports they can, and for the first time in his life,

545
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: be wrestled and he was phenomenal at it. It becomes

546
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: a multi time all American. Now he's a top five

547
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: UFC fighter in the middle in the world. You know,

548
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: and he wrestled one year in high school. You know

549
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: that right there. All happened because he was he was

550
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: a competitive gymist, competitive chairleader. You know. So I think

551
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 1: I think the more sports and the more things should

552
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: get into, not necessarily sports, which just more activity people

553
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: have as as they're growing up. I think the more

554
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 1: development they can get from a physical standpoint, of physiological standpoint,

555
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: psychological standpoint, I think it makes us tougher. It makes

556
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: it harder for us to quote unquote be bullied, and

557
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: it makes it easier for us to be able to

558
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: accept the challenges of the world. Um. You know, obviously,

559
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: I think the more sports the kid plays in high school,

560
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: the more attractive he is to us. The more attractive

561
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: he is to me. You know. Right now, there's a

562
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: kid out of US state. I'm not gonna say, I know,

563
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: the people, the competitors listening. He just spins high school

564
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: football season. You know. Last weekend his team lost out

565
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: of the state tournament, you know, and I think that's cool.

566
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: Last couple of conversations I've had with him, we talked

567
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 1: about his football season, and then to do a wrestling

568
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: I know he's good at wrestlurant as I wuldn't be

569
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: getting a call, you know. So we talked about his

570
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: current sport. You know, I kind of put these questions

571
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: at so I kind of see what he's getting out

572
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 1: of it, not just from a wins the law standpoint.

573
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: You know how he loves being around a teammates, and

574
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: I think that's unique. You know that he's still enjoying

575
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: another sports. When he gets to wrestling, you know, he's

576
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: been doing it for a long time. He's coming, he's

577
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: not gonna be parked out, and he's gonna enjoy getting

578
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: on the mat and just rewaking his wrestling muscles. And

579
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: then all the things you're learning the football for your

580
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: latter movement, you know, being set, you know in position

581
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: so you know go outside the same thing you get

582
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: on the top of the point of your own bottom.

583
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: You got, you know, top and all set you have

584
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: to hold so if you jump, that's caution. So you

585
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: still learn those things in other sports. They all go

586
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: hand in hand. I think I think that multi sport

587
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 1: athlete is so important if they if they can handle

588
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: the worklow academically and they can handle the worklow athletically,

589
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: so you know, as a high school athlete is important

590
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: to not specialize. You know, if you specialize, your chances

591
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: are making it through college, you know, and let's at

592
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: least at that at the Division two level and doing

593
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: your sport at the highest level. It's gonna be very

594
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: short because by the time you get to college, you know,

595
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: you're most like gonna be doing that sport for the

596
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: next four or five years. And you can be doing

597
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: it four or five days a week, you know, against

598
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: other people that have been doing it for a long time,

599
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: against other top nots competings, and I think, you know,

600
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: being a multi sport athlete helps you be more competitive,

601
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: you know, not just in athletes, but in the world.

602
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: Coach O. T. Johnson, UNC Pembroke, Man, I I can't

603
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: thank you enough for your time for sharing your insight,

604
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: sharing your feedback. Man, this is this is truly a

605
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: pleasure always. Hey, no problem, no problem, looking forward to

606
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: Uh listen to these podcasts. You know, it's awesome. As

607
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 1: a parent that has two kids getting ready to dive

608
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: into that world, I think it's important for me to

609
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: check myself too. When when you get out in these

610
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: sporting events. You know, we are competitive, and sometimes you

611
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: need to listen to these things to remind yourself, Hey,

612
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: it's about the kids. At the end of the day,

613
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: they are kids. No matter how much we think they

614
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: should be winning championships and things like that. They get

615
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: into sports because they enjoy it. And I think your

616
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: podcast is gonna hopefully remind myself my wife, you know,

617
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: it's not us. We already had our turn. It's not

618
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: our turn to sit in the stands and enjoy what

619
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: our daughters are doing, enjoy what her teammates and her doing,

620
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: and just you know, be fans and be spectators. And

621
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: I think that's awesome. Looking forward to uh listening and

622
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: following the podcast. UNC Pembroke The Braves Wrestling Don't Check,

623
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 1: Come Out O. T. Johnson Studs Brave Tough Coach. Thank

624
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: you so much man. That's Ot Johnson, head wrestling coach

625
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: at U n C Pembroke. Thanks for listening to the

626
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast. Dominick Boncourt and our goal is

627
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas

628
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow

629
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: us on Facebook Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our

630
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: website by searching for the Reform Sports Project