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Speaker 1: Because it doesn't work. You're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Software Radial, Special Operations, military news and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys in the community. Were and everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Software Radio. I'm your host today, Steve Balistrari,

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Speaker 1: Software Radio on Time, on Target. We have a tremendous

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Speaker 1: guests with us today, somebody that we were all following

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Speaker 1: his case for quite a while and uh we have

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Speaker 1: Clint Lawrence, former lieutenant actually former captain in the United

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Speaker 1: States Army. And we'll get into all that in just

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Speaker 1: a second. But Clint was unfairly dealt a big blow

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Speaker 1: by the Army and he was I'm i would say,

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Speaker 1: unlawfully convicted of a war crime in Afghanistan. But luckily,

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Speaker 1: after six years of spending time in Fort level Worth,

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Speaker 1: he was pardoned by President Trump. And we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about all that, and we're gonna talk about his case.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about he just wrote a book called

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Speaker 1: uh Stolen Honor, and we're gonna talk about that as well.

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Speaker 1: And but before we do that, let's welcome Clint to

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Speaker 1: sawt Fare Radio. Clint, thank you, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for taking the time today and talking with us. Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me, Steve. It's really good to be

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Speaker 1: it's really an honored to be on the show. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's an honor for us. And we're so glad we're

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Speaker 1: talking to you as a freeman. Uh we were talking

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Speaker 1: offline just a minute ago, and you're getting ready to

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Speaker 1: start law school and uh, you know you're you were

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Speaker 1: talking about seeing deer in the distance and that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of atmosphere we want you to be seeing, not

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Speaker 1: the inside of a cell. But let's get into a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I I want you to fill in our

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Speaker 1: listeners about your early military career, as you started as

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Speaker 1: an enlisted man um and you know, we'll just talk

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Speaker 1: briefly about that. Phillison, about your early military career. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I always wanted to be a State trooper all

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Speaker 1: throughout in high school and I thought that was what

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Speaker 1: I was gonna do. And then, uh, you know, nine

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Speaker 1: eleven happened and I thought that, you know, maybe I

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Speaker 1: should go join the military and contribute. And so that's

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Speaker 1: what I did. And I intended on just doing a

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Speaker 1: couple of years and then you know, getting out and

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Speaker 1: then going back to Texas and being a state trooper. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I got in the army and and

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Speaker 1: UH iron listened as any one UH and I I

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Speaker 1: just loved it. I I liked the camaraderie and and

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Speaker 1: e uh the way that UM the army, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least the units that I was in initially. UM,

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Speaker 1: we we had a brotherhood and we we took care

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Speaker 1: of each other, and we always had each other's back.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's something that is missing in the

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Speaker 1: military these days, UM, and it's definitely missing in general

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Speaker 1: society these days. UM. So I worked up to becaman

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Speaker 1: n CEO, you know, just like everybody does. And UM.

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Speaker 1: And when I once I made the six, I went

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Speaker 1: to UM UM r OKC down at University of North

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Speaker 1: Texas and UM did that for a couple of years

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Speaker 1: and and transitioned over to to be UH an officer

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Speaker 1: and went on to UM forbidding. You know, I had

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Speaker 1: stopped by there. And then I went up to Fort

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Speaker 1: Bragg and and then to Afghanistan. So UM. Then from

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan went to Fort Levenmouth and then UM and the

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Speaker 1: rest is history. Yeah. You know, UM, in your book

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Speaker 1: you talked after being in n c O and going

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Speaker 1: to college, I did that. I got when I was

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Speaker 1: still in n c O of the Army. Let me

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Speaker 1: go back to school for for a bit. And it's

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Speaker 1: a big transition, isn't it. I Mean, when you're used to,

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Speaker 1: you know, being in the army and then you go

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Speaker 1: back to the college life. It's it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: weird feeling, isn't it. It is, UM. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that that I can remember is UM sitting

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Speaker 1: in the classrooms. You know, I would always sit in

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Speaker 1: the back and just kind of you know, watch everybody

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Speaker 1: and everything. And you know, there were a couple of obnoxious,

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Speaker 1: UM former marine guys that would would always talk about

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Speaker 1: their military service in classes and stuff. But UM, so

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Speaker 1: you know, I would always just sit there and kind

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Speaker 1: of think to myself because like you know, there are

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Speaker 1: are very few people in this classroom that understand, UM,

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Speaker 1: the real threat that that you know, is being presented

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Speaker 1: to them that you know, they don't even have to

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Speaker 1: uh to ever encounter because there are so many people

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Speaker 1: men and women out there that are that are stopping

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Speaker 1: it before he ever gets to our shore. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely am It's something that UM the perspective of

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Speaker 1: all these yahoo's, you know, running around in the streets

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Speaker 1: of Portland right now, and and uh, you know, all

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Speaker 1: these socialist type people they really just don't understand, um,

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Speaker 1: what life is really all about. And you know, thankfully

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Speaker 1: they have people like you and people like you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of your listeners who who they take the

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Speaker 1: front of that and um so so those yeah who don't,

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Speaker 1: they don't have to ever worry about it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was definitely a a an experience. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I never really transitioned back into trying to be a civilian.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. They're just, um, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: just not my speed of people. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there I met some good people there at North Texas

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Speaker 1: UM and some you know, some people, A couple of them,

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Speaker 1: UM supported me with the ones that I was closest with,

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Speaker 1: supported me throughout the whole Um Leavenworth Ordeal and and

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Speaker 1: um even came to visit me there, and UM, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some really great people. UM. One of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: interesting enough for for your audience. UM. One of them, Uh,

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Speaker 1: one of the women that I went to RTC with

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Speaker 1: there became one of the first women to graduate from

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Speaker 1: Ranger School. So I know that might be a sore

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Speaker 1: topic with some of your listeners, But I thought that

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Speaker 1: was just I thought that was really cool. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember reading that in your book. I thought that

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Speaker 1: was awesome. I mean, you talked about a small world

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Speaker 1: and we're all kind of interconnected, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: because that was big news there for a while there.

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Speaker 1: And now we just had the first female graduate from

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Speaker 1: SF training and uh, oh my god, there's uh, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of hard feelings among the a lot of

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Speaker 1: the SF guys with that. I'm of the attitude. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't there. I didn't put her through training, but I

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Speaker 1: know somebody that knows, somebody who was a SF instructor,

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Speaker 1: and I from what I was told, she not only

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Speaker 1: met the standard, she exceeded them. They said physically, she

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Speaker 1: was in a much bigger stud than a lot of

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Speaker 1: the dudes were. So as far as I'm concerned, you know,

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Speaker 1: these women who make it through Ranger Training and now

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Speaker 1: SF hats off to them. It's gonna be tough for

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Speaker 1: them because we know that, you know, does that male

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Speaker 1: kind of dominated society and guys don't like people treading

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Speaker 1: on their turf. But I think it's awesome and I

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Speaker 1: I found that part of your book really fascinating, as

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Speaker 1: well as another area which resonated with me. You talked

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Speaker 1: about going through summer training with some of the West

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Speaker 1: Point officers, and I thought that was hilarious because I've

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Speaker 1: experienced that from the other side. I taught UH a

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Speaker 1: class one summer jump school to West Pointers and UH

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Speaker 1: fill our listeners in on some of that. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was great. Well, I'm sorry I had to deal

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Speaker 1: with them. I've got I've got. I can count on

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Speaker 1: one hand the amount of West Point officers that that

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Speaker 1: I could trust, UM and I know would have my

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Speaker 1: back and and that has or that have had my back,

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Speaker 1: and UM, you know that's that's what it all boils

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Speaker 1: down to me, is as loyalty and brotherhood. And so

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, UM, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're in uniform, whether it's a police uniform or a

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Speaker 1: military uniform, you've got plenty of people who are willing

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Speaker 1: to be your enemy. So the men and women next

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Speaker 1: to you, to your left and right do not need

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Speaker 1: to volunteer for that position. So the way I look

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Speaker 1: at it is, um, brotherhood is something that's very important

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Speaker 1: to being able to do your job and that's what

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Speaker 1: my book is all about. And you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate Steve that that you guys took an interest in,

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Speaker 1: uh given me the opportunity to talk to your audience here,

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Speaker 1: and I really do because I think the people in

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Speaker 1: your audience understand brotherhood. And so you know, in terms

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Speaker 1: of um, the the way that the military is today, UM,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the West Point guys that we were

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Speaker 1: talking about just a minute ago. UM, they espouse that UM,

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Speaker 1: that left leaning um position that brotherhood doesn't exist anymore.

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Speaker 1: And that's the only thing that matters is that we

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Speaker 1: quote unquote do the right thing. And you know, they

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Speaker 1: get to define what the right thing is. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll just say up front, and I've said this,

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Speaker 1: you know, a million times because I sort of have

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Speaker 1: to say this, UM that you know, I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody should ever get go into a combat zone and

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Speaker 1: just do whatever they want and just disregard the rules. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think your audience probably agrees with that. UM.

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Speaker 1: We've we've got to have rules. We've we've got to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, represent America out well, and we have to

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Speaker 1: do that for the men and women who have died

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Speaker 1: before us were in that uniform, and for for our

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Speaker 1: sons and daughters who will put that uniform on, we've

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Speaker 1: got to make sure that we always respect that. And

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Speaker 1: I think you know, for you know, buy and large,

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Speaker 1: absolutely by and large, the men and women that that

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Speaker 1: wear that uniform, um overseas, then on our streets here,

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Speaker 1: the police officers here on our streets, you know, they

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Speaker 1: they do the uniform well, um, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that, uh, in terms of those West Point guys,

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Speaker 1: the reason why I have so much animosity towards them

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Speaker 1: is because they believed during the Obama administration, they believe

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Speaker 1: that nonsense that um, it's okay to throw somebody under

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Speaker 1: the bus as long as it gets you promoted or

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Speaker 1: as long as I get my general star. And I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe in that. I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the right thing is something that doesn't ever change, and

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Speaker 1: that is, um, you wake up every single day and

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Speaker 1: you try to be the best person that you can

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Speaker 1: possibly be, and if something terrible happens to you, you

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Speaker 1: don't pry about it. You put your boots back on

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Speaker 1: and you keep moving. And you know that's something that

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Speaker 1: you know, those West Point people, they want to sit

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Speaker 1: around and talk about it all day. Well, how could

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Speaker 1: we have done this better? How could we have done that?

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Speaker 1: They want to sit around and they expect you to

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Speaker 1: cry about it. And and one of them, you know, amazingly,

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Speaker 1: one of the lieutenant colonels actually asked me. He said, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why you're not more upset about this?

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Speaker 1: Why are why are you? He he made the comment

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Speaker 1: that I might have been aloof And you know, I

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Speaker 1: had to go and get to go to the internet

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Speaker 1: cafe and look up the word aloof um, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm thinking of myself. So this guy wants

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Speaker 1: me to cry over spilt milk, and that's just not

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. That's not the way I was raised, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's the way the American people expect

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Speaker 1: their military to be. And so that's just that. I

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Speaker 1: think that kind of gives you a little bit of

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Speaker 1: insight um into why I have so much um for

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Speaker 1: US stration towards the people that come out of West Point.

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Speaker 1: They're just two left wanning and I I just don't

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Speaker 1: get it. I don't understand how that can happen. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a doctor nation um, but um. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of them meet their platoons, sergeants, and they

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Speaker 1: meet their senior n c o s, and they gradually

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Speaker 1: start to bring them over to you know, at least

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Speaker 1: to the center and give them a little bit of sense. Um.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately, there are a lot of them that don't.

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Speaker 1: And those are the people that that I've identified in

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Speaker 1: the book as my uh enemies and the enemies of

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Speaker 1: of brotherhood and of the men and women who you

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Speaker 1: know deserve to have a brotherhood. Yeah, And with that,

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Speaker 1: I want to get into, you know, the meat of

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Speaker 1: the subject, which was that incident that happened in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: because you know, when you at first glance, I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember reading about this as you know, the court

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Speaker 1: martial transpired, and I will so much of the material

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Speaker 1: wasn't presented, even though it was in the hands of

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Speaker 1: the army. And I want to get into that. But

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Speaker 1: you know, you were in Afghanistan for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: You were on the battalion staff in the talk and

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Speaker 1: then uh, the lieutenant of a line platoon that was

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Speaker 1: at a strong point, he was wounded in an I

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Speaker 1: D attack and the battalion commander chose you to go

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Speaker 1: down there and take it over, and that I think

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Speaker 1: that's the important thing that people need to realize right away.

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Speaker 1: They had a choice of a bunch of different lieutenants

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Speaker 1: and they chose you, and that was something that came

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Speaker 1: out later on. I remember the battalion sargeant major making

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Speaker 1: a statement to the fact of that they could have

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Speaker 1: chosen anyone, they chose you. And so let's let's get

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Speaker 1: into this because explain to our listeners, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as quickly as you can. I mean we could probably

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Speaker 1: talk for a couple of days on this, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know the situation, how you came to be in

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Speaker 1: command down at that strong point, and then how things transpired. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for mentioning the sergeant major. He's just

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Speaker 1: a great dude. He had not back the entire time

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately got overruled um by the you know, the

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Speaker 1: butt kissers, um that were officer senior officer rank. But

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Major Augustus and a just an amazing guy. Um.

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Speaker 1: I wish all leaders were like him. So you know,

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Speaker 1: to your question, um, what actually happened is real. Briefly, UM,

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Speaker 1: we were on a foot patrol and it was a

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Speaker 1: joint US Afghan foot patrol with the Afghan Army contingent

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Speaker 1: up front, and it was a squad plus size element.

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Speaker 1: We were crossing the road. UM. I was on our

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Speaker 1: radio talking to the helicopter and giving them stuff to do. UM,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time was trying to navigate an obstacle. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I was, uh as I was, you know, negotiating

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Speaker 1: this obstacle. I was on the blind side of this obstacle.

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Speaker 1: One of my soldiers yells back and says, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's frantically freaking out. And this this soldier is and

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Speaker 1: and he's um telling me that there is a motorcycle

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Speaker 1: coming at a high rate of speed. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I know in the back of my mind that I've

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Speaker 1: got half of my men across the road and half

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Speaker 1: of them still on this side of the road. And

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Speaker 1: there's some you know, obviously actively crossing the road. So

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Speaker 1: I know that we're in a vulnerable position. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, this this soldier who who um yells back

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Speaker 1: and you know, is asking me, you know, if he

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Speaker 1: can fire. I I know he is someone who has experience.

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Speaker 1: I know that he is someone who had been a

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Speaker 1: former civilian police officer. So I know that this is

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Speaker 1: a more mature guy. He's a private, I get it,

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Speaker 1: but he's a more mature guy. And I know that

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Speaker 1: because I had sat down with all of the eyes

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Speaker 1: when I first got there, and interviewed each and every

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Speaker 1: one of them, and I wanted to get to know

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Speaker 1: them as much as I could. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not some you know, brilliant, you know, lead or anything.

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Speaker 1: I just copied the people that I look up to

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Speaker 1: when I was a private, and I had a staff

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Speaker 1: sergeant and then a captain do the same thing to

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Speaker 1: me when I was a private, and I really liked that,

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Speaker 1: so I just copied it. I think that's what we

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Speaker 1: all do, and we take little bits and pieces from

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Speaker 1: here and there and we try to make an inmt

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Speaker 1: to who we are. So we're as we're crossing this road,

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of things in my mind, and um,

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Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, this is all happening in

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Speaker 1: a matter of seconds, like very very quickly. Um, the

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Speaker 1: next thing you know, Uh, the Afghan Army contingent starts

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Speaker 1: firing and I don't know who's firing. And you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people can they can tell the difference

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Speaker 1: and what an a K four to seven is in

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Speaker 1: an M sixteen and in floor and I can't, right,

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Speaker 1: I just don't pay that close enough attention, right, And

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Speaker 1: I may I may be able to if I had

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Speaker 1: more experience with it, but you know, I was pretty green. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: I I hear people up front firing. Um, I don't

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Speaker 1: know who it is firing. Um, I'm assuming that it

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Speaker 1: is the ask games because none of my guys have

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Speaker 1: have told me that they're firing or have asked permission

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Speaker 1: to fire until that very moment when the guy turned

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Speaker 1: around and started asking for permission to fire. So um,

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Speaker 1: I told him yes. And here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking.

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Speaker 1: There's a hundred things going through my mind at the time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm thinking to myself, I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: new guy. I've got next to no combat experience. I'm

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Speaker 1: taking over for these guys who have been here several

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Speaker 1: months already and have a ton of experience, much more

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Speaker 1: than me. And this guy is turned around and asking

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Speaker 1: me if he can defend himself, And so who am

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Speaker 1: I to come in and tell somebody like that that

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Speaker 1: they can't defend themselves? And so I say yes, right,

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Speaker 1: And so he takes a shot at the motorcycle. Now,

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Speaker 1: let me remind everybody, I can't see the motorcycle because

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Speaker 1: I'm still trying to get over this wall. And uh.

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Speaker 1: So you know, this is all happening very very quickly,

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Speaker 1: and it's not like I have time to actually you know,

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Speaker 1: uh litigate and you know, be deliberate. I you just

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Speaker 1: don't have time. And you know that's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that came out in my court martial. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things my lawyer kept on saying is is,

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Speaker 1: uh is did you expect him to um, you know,

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Speaker 1: to hold an inquiry or to to you know, litigate

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Speaker 1: like a lawyer would. There's no time for that. And

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Speaker 1: I told hire um fired, uh And he did not

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Speaker 1: fire effectively. He missed UM. And you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: blame him. It was a very you know, uh kinetic situation.

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Speaker 1: It was often really fast, and there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff going on. UM. And so I told, you know,

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Speaker 1: and when I went once I started here and somebody

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Speaker 1: else fire up front, and I sort of kind of

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Speaker 1: processing what was going on, I was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I need to tell everybody just to chill out, and

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Speaker 1: we need to take control of the situation. So I

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Speaker 1: got on the radio and told everybody to stop fire.

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Speaker 1: And and then I ordered the gun truck, which I

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Speaker 1: knew had an overwatched position, to take a precision shot

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Speaker 1: and fire to make sure that we cut down on

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Speaker 1: um collateral damage. Because if we've got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: guys that are on the ground, Um, you know about

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Speaker 1: a bunch of riflemen on the ground, whether they're Afghan

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Speaker 1: Army or or American Army, and everybody's opening fire, I

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Speaker 1: think that's less uh, that's more of a collateral damage concerned. Then, UM,

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Speaker 1: when you have a you know, a guy at the

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Speaker 1: end of a behind the two forty bravo and that's

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Speaker 1: mounted on a gun truck with you know, he's at

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Speaker 1: an elevated position he's got I think he's got a

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Speaker 1: better position to fire, So I ordered him to fire. UM.

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Speaker 1: So essentially I was sent for what was twenty years

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Speaker 1: and they really um for issuing that order, right and

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: let our listeners know that the Afghans were well aware

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Speaker 1: of what happens when you approach the US unit either

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Speaker 1: on foot or in vehicles at a high rate of

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Speaker 1: speed on motorcycles. Am I correct? Yeah? Absolutely, And you

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Speaker 1: know there was there was contention in my court martial.

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Speaker 1: I'm re loovant to call it a trial because it

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Speaker 1: really was kind of like a kangaroo court. It was

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Speaker 1: more of a um of administrative proceeding because they had

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Speaker 1: already decided what, um, what they wanted done before it

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Speaker 1: even started. UM, so we were just kind of there

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Speaker 1: to check the box. But UM so you know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of UH the with the Afghans, UH by that time,

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Speaker 1: it was two thousand and twelve, so we're talking about

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Speaker 1: eleven years of dealing with American units in various different forms,

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Speaker 1: and NATO units and various different forms. And on top

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Speaker 1: of that, the road that uh they were trying to

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Speaker 1: go down was one that we had UH put concertina

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Speaker 1: wire up on on either side, triple stranded concertino wire,

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Speaker 1: and we put up science that that so this is

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Speaker 1: our road where this is restricted for military and police

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Speaker 1: use only. And the reason for that is because that

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Speaker 1: was our lifeline road. So we only had one truck

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Speaker 1: that we could use to shuttle back and forth to

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Speaker 1: where my UM senior headquarters was, my parent headquarters was,

381
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Speaker 1: and so you know, we were kind of uh, we

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Speaker 1: were down. My my strong point was kind of down

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Speaker 1: by itself, um in the kind of the thick of things.

384
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Speaker 1: And um, we had to have a way to go

385
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Speaker 1: back and forth and shuttle somebody just in case we

386
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Speaker 1: gotta somebody get hurt or um, you know, we need

387
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Speaker 1: to get supplies or go to some sort of dumb

388
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Speaker 1: meeting or something. We would use that road. Um. So

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Speaker 1: we wanted to make sure that road was always clear.

390
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Speaker 1: So we had signs up when we had concertina wire up.

391
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Speaker 1: So the guy was trying to we do that road.

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Speaker 1: So No, there are several different factors that I'm taking

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Speaker 1: into consideration, and that's one of them. So uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: after at that time, being you know, interacting with American

395
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Speaker 1: forces for eleven years, at that point, um, you know,

396
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Speaker 1: it would be a a reasonable assumption, um that most

397
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Speaker 1: of the people in Afghanistan would know how to deal

398
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Speaker 1: with American forces. And that is when they tell you

399
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Speaker 1: to stop or they shoot at you, you probably need

400
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Speaker 1: to stop. Um. Now look, I'm like, like you said,

401
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm in law school, so you can't assume anything. Um,

402
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: So I get that, but I just want you know,

403
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Speaker 1: especially in this book, you can kind of see where

404
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Speaker 1: my my thinking was, UM, And there's it's it's not

405
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Speaker 1: a simple decision to make, and it's not a an

406
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Speaker 1: easy decision to make to to take a human life, UM.

407
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Speaker 1: But to me, UM, if it comes down to me

408
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Speaker 1: protecting my troops or um them possibly uh coming up

409
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Speaker 1: and detonating some sort of device dropping up, grenading our feet,

410
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe have maybe haven't seefol only the

411
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: gas tank of the motorcycle itself. Whatever, there's so many

412
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Speaker 1: different possibilities if it comes down to them or my troops.

413
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Speaker 1: I'm going to protect my troops UM. And and that's

414
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Speaker 1: just you know, I'll go back to for it, let

415
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Speaker 1: more than for another twenty years if I have to

416
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: make the same decision over with, it's that to me,

417
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: that's you know, you've got to uh, You've you've got

418
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Speaker 1: to put a if you're gonna send American troops into

419
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Speaker 1: a combat zone, you've got to be able to protect them.

420
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Speaker 1: And you know, if you're if you're gonna send these

421
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Speaker 1: these young officers into um and put them in charge

422
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Speaker 1: of them, then you've got to let them make decisions

423
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Speaker 1: on the on the on the ground. And you know,

424
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Speaker 1: one of the things that I talked about in the

425
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: book a lot is is the micro management that was

426
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: going on, UM where you know, the Lighthouse was making decisions, uh, directly,

427
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, battlefield decisions that we should have been making

428
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: UM and and micro managing do such an extent that

429
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: we are were tied. So I think there's there's just

430
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: a lot of different things that go into you know,

431
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: what happened with my case and and listen, Steve, I

432
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: don't I don't want anyone to ever look at me

433
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: as a victim because I'm not. And I can't stand

434
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: people with that victim mentality. UM. But there is something

435
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: The reason why I wrote this book is because there

436
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: is something wrong. When something that happened to me happens

437
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: to a member of the U. S Military, there's something

438
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: wrong with the system. And I wrote the book so

439
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: I could try to get exposures so so people would

440
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: understand that stuff like this happens. And uh, and that's

441
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: another reason why I'm going to law schools. I'm gonna

442
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: try to fix it right. And you know, when the

443
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: this is where like you know, right at the time

444
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: of the firing, this is where everything should have been

445
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: cut and dried I mean, um, from reading you know,

446
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: the transcript from your lawyers. I read the book. Uh.

447
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: The two men that were killed on the motorcycle, a

448
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: third got away, you know. Uh, they were immediately characterized

449
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: by the army, who did an immediate investigation as civilians.

450
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: But the fact was that these guys the army uses

451
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: what they called bio for our listeners out there that

452
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: may not be aware, the army uses what they're called biometrics,

453
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: and that's how they test for bombmakers. And all of

454
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: these guys had biometric data on them. They had left

455
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: fingerprints or DNA on bomb components, on I E. D s.

456
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: All three of them had. And the army kind of

457
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: blocked that and they blocked out their names during the

458
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: investigation and they wrote and uh, they crossed out their

459
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: names and the charging documents and wrote in pen a

460
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: male of apparent Afghan descent, because if they had their

461
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: names on there, they would have been identified as Afghan bombmakers.

462
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: And this is where this whole trial comes right off

463
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: the rails. And it's amazing that our military allowed this

464
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: to happen. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to

465
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: cut you off there. I just wanted to fill in

466
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: our our listeners on that that little bit. But tell

467
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: us more how than how everything transpired for you. Yeah, Steve,

468
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: you've obviously done your homework. I appreciate you bringing that

469
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: up because you know, one of the things that really

470
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: just kind of, um shocked me to my core is, uh,

471
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: the the DNA evidence, the biometric you know, the epithelials

472
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: and the DNA um evidence that they found, you know,

473
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: on these bombs. That these guys, the guys that we uh,

474
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: that I ordered killed and that that the one of

475
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: the guys that you know, he we just shot him

476
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: in the arm. Um. You know, that wasn't my preference.

477
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: But you know, my soldiers were a little bit more

478
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: to the left than I was. Um, so look, uh,

479
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: these guys. There were six members of the United States

480
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: Army and the United States Marines who were killed with

481
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: the same But I'm trying to be careful here because

482
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: my lawyers are on me about making sure the facts

483
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: are right and everything. But there were six members of

484
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: the U. S Military who were killed by people associated

485
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: closely associated with these quote civilians unquote civilians. So the

486
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: Army is saying these guys are civilians, but these guys uh,

487
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: have made bombs that have named and killed American soldiers

488
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: and marines. And to me, that's something that's not cool,

489
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: and it's not cool for the Army to say that.

490
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Immediately The next day is the next day the Army

491
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: was saying these guys were civilians. And you can't anybody

492
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: that has any experience with the military and the militaries

493
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: investigative processes and so on and so forth. You know,

494
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: flat out the military doesn't get much done in terms

495
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: of investigating and paperwork and all this stuff in twenty

496
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: four hours. It just does not happen. Right, There's so

497
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: many you know, seen Robster's butts that have to be

498
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: kissed before you know it can actually get down with

499
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: the meat and potatoes off. Actually what happened. And so

500
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: the way that uh, you characterize that, I think is

501
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: extremely important. Um, because here we have let me just

502
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: be very you know, clear and concise. Um, here we

503
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: have an American unit, my unit that engaged with Taliban members,

504
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: members of the Taliban who had American blood on their hands.

505
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: We killed those Taliban and within twenty four hours, my

506
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: own chain of command, the American Army chain of command,

507
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: charged me and some of my men with murder of civilians.

508
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: Now to just let that sink in, Right, So I

509
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: was sent to Fort Leavenworth for quote unquote murdering civilians, right,

510
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: And you know, granted I didn't uh pull the trigger.

511
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: I didn't ever even use my weapon. I did use

512
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: my radio, you know. But look, I'm not ever gonna

513
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: try to put the blame on the soldiers who served

514
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: under me for seven or two hours. I'm not going

515
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: to do that because they were serving under my command.

516
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: It was my responsibility. And the only thing I said

517
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: in my court martial was that I take full responsibility

518
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: for the actions of my bed under my command, because

519
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: that's the way it should be. Well, I was the

520
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: only officer there. So if anybody is going to prison,

521
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: and I've said this a million times, and I said this.

522
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: My lawyers hate it when I say this, but if

523
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna if anybody's gonna go to prison, it's gonna

524
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: be me. And so you know who the the the army,

525
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: um said bet and sent me to prison for tween years. Um.

526
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: So um, you know, there there are so many different

527
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: things that went wrong, um in my uh court martial,

528
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: and but you know, and one of the things that

529
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: I write about in the book. And I think this

530
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: really shocked me. Was the first day of my court martial.

531
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: The first day, Um, there was an Army captain who

532
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: came up to me and I've never seen this guy before.

533
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: They come up to me and he said, hey, Clent,

534
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: I need to get your PP sizes. And you know

535
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: that was back when we still had the gray and

536
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: black poteas. And uh, I'm like, well, why, you know,

537
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: why do you need about pts? And he's like, well,

538
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: because when you get transferred to Fort Leavenworth, you're gonna

539
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: be in T T s now. Listen. This was on

540
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: the first day. We hadn't even started the court martial yet, right,

541
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: So before we even start at the court martial, the

542
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: Army had sent somebody. The Chance of Command had sent

543
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: somebody over to get my PP sizes because they had

544
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: already determined that I was going to Fort Leavenworth. Now,

545
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: I think it's very important that you your listeners understand, um,

546
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: because look, I've always been a law and order type guy,

547
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: right I I you know, I'm a thin blue line

548
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: type guy. I support the police. I love the police.

549
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: You know, I said I'm going to law school for

550
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: God's for God's sake, I completely understand and support law

551
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: and order and pre doing the right thing and following

552
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: the rules. Right. That is why I'm so passionately um

553
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: involved and and and advocating for change of the military

554
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,239
Speaker 1: justice system, because it's not a justice system. It's an

555
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: administrative procedie proceeding. And you know, they they operate under

556
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: the guise of the justice system. And yeah, they walk

557
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: in and they wear the judge wears a black robe, um,

558
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: and you know, they have prosecutors and defense attorneys, and

559
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: you know they've been to law school and this, this

560
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: and this. But at the end of the day, everybody

561
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: works for the men and and that's the commanding general

562
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: or or whatever they call the admiral that's in charge.

563
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: That's the convenience order. And when whenever everybody works for

564
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: the same person and everybody knows that that same person

565
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: wants a certain outcome, then what do you think is

566
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: gonna happen? And so you know, that's the one of

567
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: the things that you know, I'm actually uh for one

568
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: of my law professors right now, I'm actually writing a

569
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: paper to that on on that subject, which is um,

570
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, there are certain things in the military justice

571
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: and that that have to change. And you know, one

572
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: of the key things is you've got to take it

573
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: away from the commanders, the commanding generals. You've you got

574
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: to take it away from these people who um. You know,

575
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: if if if I Clint Lawrence, if I had stayed

576
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: in the army for forty years, I would probably have

577
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: been at least a pullbird colonel or a brigadier general

578
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: or something. Right now, that does not qualify me too.

579
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: Just determine whether or not a criminal lack has been

580
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: committed or whether or not, UM, somebody needs to be

581
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: sent to a criminal trial and potentially sent to prison

582
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: for the rest of his or her life. That doesn't

583
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: qualify them. They don't have any legal training. They may

584
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: have a power point presentation here and there on you know,

585
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: the commander's um. You know, responsibilities in the legal process

586
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: and this isn't that. But they have been to law

587
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: school for three or four years. They don't have that expertise.

588
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: And so there are so many things, Steve, And the

589
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: reason why I'm advocating so passionately for this is because

590
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: I actually went through it and I saw it. You know,

591
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: we it's kind of like when you open up that

592
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: closet underneath the stairwell and you shine a flashlot in there,

593
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: and and you see all this craftsmen in there forever

594
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, this ain't right. Somebody's going to

595
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: clean this up. Well, that's the same thing that has

596
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: to happen in the military justice system. It's got to

597
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 1: be cleaned up, and it's got to be brought to

598
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: the same level as the federal court system. And it's

599
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: nowhere near that right now, right now, Steve, what the

600
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: military justice system is right now is the same one

601
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: they have in North Korea, and the same one they

602
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: have in Russia, and the same one they have in China,

603
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: and all these places that that you know, Venezuela, all

604
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: these places that we think are terrible places with you know,

605
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: without the rule of law, were the same thing that's

606
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: happening to men and women who wear the uniform of

607
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: the world's greatest military. And that's something that I don't

608
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: think we can we can abide by. I don't think

609
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: it's that's something that we can allow to happen for

610
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: any longer. Exactly. And you know, in your book, when

611
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: you talked about that incident with the Captain and your PTS.

612
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: I I when back and I reread that and I

613
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: was like that, I just read that, and I had

614
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: to read it again. And it was amazing because this

615
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: was again before opening arguments had even been made for

616
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: your for your for your court martial. They're they're already

617
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: sending you to Fort loving Worth. I mean, they made

618
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: that abundantly clear. And then the judge you know, asked,

619
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: if oh, I have a soccer game to go do

620
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: can we get this trial over with? And I remember thinking, oh, then,

621
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, if if I'm sitting in urs here, I

622
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: would automatically think the worst because obviously that the the

623
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: die was already cast here. And you know, I think

624
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: it's important to uh, for our listeners to understand the

625
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: reason behind all this was because the Afghans were getting

626
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: very sensitive to what they considered civilians being killed by

627
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: the U. S. Mil terry, especially President cars I, and

628
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: the attitude in Washington from the very top at the

629
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: President's desk at that time came down through the military.

630
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: They weren't going to, you know, put up with any

631
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: of this. So if anyone was accused of that, they

632
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: were going to throw them right under the bus. Yeah, yeah,

633
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. And you know, political correctness, um, when

634
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: it takes root in the military, um, it does something

635
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: real special because you have a lot of senior officers

636
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: who want to get promoted to general and so they

637
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: do everything they possibly can to make their commander happy.

638
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: And so if that includes under President Obama, that included

639
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: being politically correct, and that is that that's where they

640
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: took our military and and that's why you have situations

641
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: like Bengali happening where you had these barrel chested freedom

642
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: fighters who were ready to go. They were sitting on

643
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: Gane waiting on oh, but they it and go because

644
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: they had a weak stomach, a weak need. President and

645
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: and and people that work for him and President Obama

646
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: that would not allow them to do their jobs. And

647
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: and it's just absolutely sickening. And I think people are

648
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: tired of it. But the problem is is the the

649
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: attention span of the American people is not very long.

650
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, that's you know, one of the

651
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: reasons I think that your podcast is so important and

652
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: and that what that what you guys do is so

653
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: important is you gotta keep burning this stuff up or

654
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: else people are gonna move on to something else and

655
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: they're gonna forget. Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. Well, the

656
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, my son or my daughter is

657
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: gonna be uh, you know, subject to the same U

658
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: C m J that I was subject to. That I

659
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: don't want that to happen. I want my my kids

660
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: to be able to grow up and and join the

661
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: military if they want to. I want them, you know,

662
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 1: hopefully want of them to join the Space Force, right.

663
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: I want them to be able to, uh, to serve

664
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: their country just like I did, and to be proud

665
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: of that and and to be um, you know, to

666
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: to to serve their long line and to join the

667
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: long line of great Americans that have put that uniform on.

668
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: But I would be afraid to send them to the

669
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: military Steve under these conditions. And I'm telling you you know, uh,

670
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: it's if you haven't if you haven't interfaced with the

671
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: military justice system, if you haven't had any contact with

672
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: the military justice system, good on you, good for you, right,

673
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: But the second you do, you're gonna wish you never

674
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: had joined the military. And I'll tell you it's, uh,

675
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: it's if you're a bad soldier, if you're a bad actor,

676
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: then yeah, you deserve to to, you know, to get

677
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: slapped down and to be punished. But that's not what

678
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: has happening exclusively in the military these days. You've got

679
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: good people. There are good men sitting in Fort leven

680
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: Worth Prison right now. I can think of their names. First,

681
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: Stargeant John Hatley is one of them. You know, are

682
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: good men sitting in for leven With prison right now

683
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: because of President Obama. And you know, it's it's the

684
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: reason why I fight. And it's just one of the

685
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: think you know, everybody should be up and arms about it.

686
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Steve. If if they're not African American,

687
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: if they're not a Black Lives Matter type, you know,

688
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: socialist nonsense, all that nonsense, then nobody cares about them

689
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: if they're in prison wrongfully. And I said this on

690
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: a radio show in Chicago, and that they just about

691
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: booed me off the air. Was was look, just because

692
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a I'm a white male who who was

693
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: in who was who was in the military, and got

694
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: sent to a military prison because of some politically correct

695
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: nonsense that came out of the Obama administration, then none

696
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: of the uh, none of the a c o U

697
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: type people who are always you know, chomp about the

698
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: bits and and and and yelling and screaming all the

699
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: time about letting people out of prison. And this is

700
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: not none of them. People were anywhere to be found,

701
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: none of them. And so you know, it took a

702
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: president like President Trump getting elected and and as soon

703
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: as somebody told him about it, you know, he did

704
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: his homework on it. But but as soon as they

705
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: told him about it, he started looking at it. But

706
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: he's one guy, and he's got plenty of other fights

707
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: to fight. And so I think that, you know, the

708
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: reason I wrote this book, and the reason I think

709
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: it's so important for people like you to keep speaking

710
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: out is because these things are happening. And just because

711
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: the Washington Post and the New York Times and the

712
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: mainstream media are not covering it or don't care to

713
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: cover it, nobody cares about it. And so, you know,

714
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: there are just so many people who only believe what

715
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: they read or see in the mainstream media. And I

716
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: feel sorry for those kind of people because there's so

717
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: much stuff happening in the dark in this country that

718
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: that needs to be we need to shine a light on.

719
00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: And that's the reason why I wrote this book, and

720
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: that's the reason why I I appreciate so much you're

721
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: bringing me on here well and and see that that

722
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: was the whole point is because okay, even if you

723
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 1: know the Afghans complain that civilians were killed, the army

724
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: does an investigation. Okay, do an investigation, but do a

725
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: real one. So you know, they never they never actually

726
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: interviewed you. They only interviewed the soldiers that served under

727
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: view and from what I read, I got a uh

728
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: something from your lawyer. Basically they they threatened all of

729
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: them with U C m J and court martialed themselves

730
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: unless they made a statement, which kind of leads you

731
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: to believe that you know, they separated you from them,

732
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: and they basically said it's either you or those guys.

733
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: So they kind of put that right in there. They

734
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: blocked out the uh you know, the identities of the

735
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: Afghan bomb makers. They got a statement from the lieuten

736
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: it that your replaced it was, you know, severely wounded

737
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: by an I E ed. And you know they lined

738
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: out the areas that you know, uh where he talked

739
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: about you know, he would never let a motorcycle in

740
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: close proximity to his his his unit, which was your

741
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: platoon because of how they operate. And this is a

742
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: guy that I believe he lost an eye over this.

743
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: And then you know, there was another there was an

744
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: Army signac report that said that your platoon is being

745
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: scouted for an impending tack uh an impending attack. And

746
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: then there was another individual later on who I mean

747
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: there was I believed they had satellite or maybe it

748
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: was a drone up above, and he reported that watching

749
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: the Afghan motorcycle drivers, that your platoon is being cited

750
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: for an ambush. And they the Army had all of

751
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: that MATI aerial, they had all of that evidence, and

752
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: they blocked it from your defense. And that's the kind

753
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 1: of thing that can't ever happen to us. As you said,

754
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: this is stuff that happens in North Korea, not in

755
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: North Carolina. And it was shocking to read all this.

756
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: That's why we were felt so strongly about it. Obviously

757
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: we didn't go through what you did, but you know,

758
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, this whole you know, court martials should

759
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: have never taken place. And you know, if they had

760
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,959
Speaker 1: just done an investigation like they claimed they were doing,

761
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 1: it would have never happened. Yeah, and Steven, I think

762
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, I just I've been writing some points down

763
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: as you've been talking. You've really done your homework. I

764
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: appreciate that. It's really rare to have somebody do to

765
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: homework these days. They usually just read whatever the title

766
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: of the article is from the New York Times, and

767
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: then they just believe it because it's gospel, right, it's

768
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: the liberals say it's true, it must be true. So

769
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: what what you said? They blocked it from blocked all

770
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: that evidence from my defense council, which is true. That's

771
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: that's what's called a brave violation in legal terms. But

772
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: they also blocked it from the jury. So the the

773
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: majors and lieutenant colonel and colonel that the ones that

774
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: were sitting on the jury panel, you know, half half

775
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: of more sleep half the time. To be honest with you,

776
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: they already knew what they were gonna rule, so they

777
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: blocked all that information from the jury though, so the

778
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: jury never heard any of that information. So you know,

779
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: how do you think they felt about me? And and

780
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: you know they're here and all this one side and

781
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: stuff and makes me look like some kind of maniac.

782
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: But and another thing, i'd like to One of the

783
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: things you brought up, and I appreciate you bringing that up,

784
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: is this intel of the guys, the guy that was

785
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: in charge of the blimp, that he was the blimp

786
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: oper reader and he had all the he had the camera,

787
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: the footage literally watching these Taliban operatives as they are

788
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: putting there. They're setting in a crude ambush around our position.

789
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: Now look, full disclosure, I did not know that because

790
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't see them. I didn't know that was happening

791
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: at the time. Um. The Afghan Army sergeant that was there, Um,

792
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: he came up to me at a certain point and

793
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: I say this in the book. He came up to

794
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: me a certain point and he was like, sir, we

795
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: gotta go right now. And I'm like, well, why, you

796
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: know what what's wrong? And he was this is you know,

797
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: we were already at the end of the objective. We

798
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: had already clear through the objective. We're already done, and

799
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: we were kind of just hanging out. But that the

800
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: sergeant cames up to me and he's like, we gotta go.

801
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: He's like the Taliban they're coming. So you know, I

802
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: look around and and you know it's the conditions are

803
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: We've already achieved everything with that we were sent out

804
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: there to achieve. So I'm like, all right, well let's

805
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: go um. And so you know that, I think that

806
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: kind of verifies what you know, Mr Hubrew was saying.

807
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: The guy that had the camera footage of them putting

808
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: in the Taliban putting in the uh the ambush, setting

809
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: in the ambush. Now, look, I'll take on the Taliban

810
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: head to head any day, right, But at the fact

811
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: of the matter is that when you're fighting with one

812
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 1: hand behind your back like we were in the Obama administration,

813
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put my men in harm's way unnecessarily.

814
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: So look, and Steve, if I can just address one

815
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: more thing that that the Washington Post isn't just ridiculous.

816
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: They just they just did an article and they you know,

817
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: they have decided, you know that the bottom of the

818
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: barrel uh in that platoon. Um that they found about

819
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: the bottom of the barrel of that platoon, And anybody

820
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: that served in the military can look at the character

821
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: of the guys who who interviewed with the Washington Post

822
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: and they can tell what kind of soldiers they were.

823
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: Very quickly and I've been very reticent to uh and

824
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: very reluctant to ever say anything bad about those soldiers

825
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, they were just

826
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: as much uh screwed over by the army as I was.

827
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: Because you said just now, Steve, that that you know,

828
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: the army threatened them with prosecution as well, that's very true.

829
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: They actually worked up charge sheets for murder for a

830
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: couple of those guys, right, So know, they charged me

831
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 1: with murder, They charged me with all kinds of nonsense.

832
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: They charged me with using harsh language toward Afghans, which

833
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: I kind of laughed at, you know, but so you know,

834
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: but here's the thing, right, so it was very true

835
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 1: what you just said. So they brought all of those

836
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: soldiers that I had known for seventy two hours. They

837
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: were complete strangers to me seventy two hours ago. I

838
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: knew these guys for three days. They brought these soldiers

839
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: into to the a tent and they put them all

840
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: around this big table, this series of tables, and they

841
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: they told them all, they said, they gave them all

842
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: to one statements twenty threes and they said you're all

843
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: you all gonna write Swimer sweet and start right now.

844
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: I was the only person not in that room, So

845
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: what do you think happened? They all got on the

846
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: same page, quite literally, And that's something you know, I

847
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: kind of write more detailed in my book about. So

848
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, those guys, they didn't know me. I had

849
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: been there for three days, for seventy two hours, and

850
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: now the Washington Post wants to come out and try

851
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: to make me look like a bad person because I

852
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: told Sean Hannity that I don't even remember most of

853
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: their names. But look, see, I would challenge anybody anybody too.

854
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: In the military, you meet a lot of people, right,

855
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: So I would challenge anybody to go to go back

856
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: in their memory and to to rewind eight years, To

857
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: go back eight years and remember the names of four

858
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: men that you met for three days eight years ago.

859
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible. And let's act serve with It's not

860
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: gonna happen. So unlet's actually serve with these people for

861
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: more than three days. You're not gonna remember all of them.

862
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: You're just not right. I just to be completely completely

863
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: honest with you, They're not that. They were not that

864
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: memorable of people to me. And I know that's unpoable.

865
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: That that's unpopular for me to say, but anybody that's

866
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: gonna turn on one of his brothers is not that

867
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: memorable of a person to me, And so to to

868
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: to put this a different way, And I write about

869
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: this in the book too, and I'm kind of the

870
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: gloves are kind of coming off at this point because

871
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm sick and tired of dealing with the Washington Post

872
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: and the New York Times going over and tampering those guys,

873
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: those crappy soldiers and trying to make them feel like

874
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: they're war heroes. And by the way, I can't stand

875
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: it in anyway he tries to call me that. Right,

876
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm just a normal guy who was putting a really

877
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: crappy situation, and I found a better way to deal

878
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: with it, which is not to turn on my my

879
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. So but at the end of the day,

880
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: what we have to look at here is there is

881
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: a that that narrative that was started with the Obama administration,

882
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: who are liberals, allies the Washington Post in the New

883
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: York Times, they continue to this day to try to

884
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: make me look like some kind of you know, crazy,

885
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: wild haired war criminal. And they called me that as

886
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: much as they possibly can, and you know, I try

887
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: to ignore it as much as I possibly can. But

888
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: here's the thing. What these these soldiers, these few soldiers,

889
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: this is this is the last point I'll make. I'm you,

890
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: as you can tell, I'm kind of passionate about this stuff.

891
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: These soldiers who continually emails and New York Times and

892
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: the Washington Post and all the liberal media they can

893
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: possibly get to listen to them. They were several of

894
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: them there, and granted there's only a handful of that

895
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: platoon that has even cooperated with the press at all.

896
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: Most of them, most of the forty guys of the

897
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: platoon said no, I don't, I don't want anything to

898
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: do with this, right because maybe they have a little

899
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: bit of a shred of loyalty uh left in their bodies.

900
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: But there's a few of them that and and it's

901
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: just amazing to me. A couple of these guys were

902
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: not even there. They were not even on that patrol.

903
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: And so what I was saying on Sean Hannity was

904
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: was that specifically, I don't remember their names because they

905
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: weren't even there. So, you know, eight years later, they

906
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: come out on this Washington Post YouTube video, and I'm

907
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: looking at it and I'm like, who in the hell

908
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: are you. I've never seen you before. And so just

909
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: just because you just right, so, just because you were

910
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: on paper assigned to that platoon doesn't give you the

911
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: right to be an expert in what happened there because

912
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: you weren't there. And so I look at it and so,

913
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 1: but the Washington Post doesn't care about that because they

914
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 1: can use me, Clint Lawrence, to make President Donald Trump

915
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: look bad. So that's what they're gonna do. And so

916
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: that's what they're continuing to do. And so and the

917
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: last thing I'll say here is, Steve is I've gotten

918
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: over the last eight years, Since two thousands twelve, I've

919
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: gotten thousands, tens of thousands of letters and messages from

920
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: people in the military and members of police departments around

921
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: the world. There there are even military folks in the

922
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: little tiny country of Cyprus who are have been writing

923
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: to me and given me their support. They all support me,

924
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: and they all say the same thing, this is bullshit.

925
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: The guys that turned on you were cowards. Right the

926
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: police officers and YPP police officers right to me and

927
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: send me a little tiny police badges and send me

928
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: all kinds of like baseball caps and everything else, telling

929
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: me the same exact thing. Those guys were cowards. They

930
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: don't understand brotherhood. But Steve, there's a tiny little a

931
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: tiny little bit of people and I can count on

932
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: probably uh both hands and both the the amount of

933
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: people who have UH sent me messages that are not supportive,

934
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: that are saying sent things along the lines of, UM,

935
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 1: you're a coward, war criminal. This isn't that. And one

936
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: of them I responded to, just one. It was. It

937
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: was a girl who sent to me a message and UM,

938
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing anything at that moment, so I replied

939
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,439
Speaker 1: to her and UM, I asked her some details about

940
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: the cases. She was like, well, I don't really know

941
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: anything about the case. I just know that I read

942
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: I read the title. She didn't even read the Washington

943
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: Post article. She read the title of the article and

944
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: then decided that I was a war criminal. So that's

945
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: what I'm dealing with. That's what I deal with in

946
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,479
Speaker 1: my daily life. And so you know, I talked about

947
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: this a lot more in detailed about the nonsense that

948
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with um in the book. But you know,

949
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: I'll just say that, and yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't

950
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: mean interrupt. The book is released, I believe September, right, Yeah, yeah,

951
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: And and Steve, there's just there's a lot more at

952
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: play here then law and order than A and B

953
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: led to see. There's a lot more than black and

954
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: white here, right, There's a lot more going on here.

955
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: And so that's one of the things the reasons why

956
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: I wanted to write this book. And I really appreciate

957
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: you you actually caring about this. Well, we, like I said,

958
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: when we learned about what was actually behind the scenes

959
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: going on because we were following the the case through

960
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 1: your lawyers, That's why we felt so strongly. But we

961
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: wrote a bunch of articles on this and we try

962
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: to bring attention to it because again I'm gonna go

963
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: back to the battalion sergeant major. I mean, I look

964
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: at you know, this is n c O with career

965
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: military probably years to become Italian sergeant major. And he says, clearly,

966
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: the division commander, the brigade commander, and the squadron commander

967
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: aren't gonna take responsibility. The chain of command failed this

968
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: young man. They used him as a scapegoat at a

969
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: time in Afghanistan when the commanding general in country was

970
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: looking to hold someone accountable because of other civilian casualties

971
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: that occurred in other locations. And I think that hits

972
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 1: it right on the head. And uh so, I know

973
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: we're kind of running short on time because you have

974
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: things you have to do, but I just wanted to

975
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: touch on you. You went to you went to Fort Leavenworth,

976
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: You did six years behind bars there. We won't get

977
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 1: into all that right now because we're kind of short

978
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: on time, but tell me the failing when you actually learned,

979
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: and tell our listeners a little bit about the phone

980
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: call you received when you found out you were going

981
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: to be part I'll just say this, Uh you know,

982
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: so life, you know, they have a lot of these

983
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: little things that I can't stand up when people use

984
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: these little sayings, but this one really applies. Life is

985
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: what you make it. Right. So, when I got to

986
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: Fort Leavenworth, I i i I realized that I was standing

987
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: up against a a solid concrete wall, and I knew

988
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: that I could deal with it in one of two ways.

989
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 1: I could stand there and feel sorry for myself, or

990
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: I could do everything I can to get through that wall.

991
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: And so that is I took the second one and

992
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: I got through that wall. But but look, so here's

993
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 1: here's the crux of the issue. There are so many

994
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: Americans out there who voted for President Trump, and there

995
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: are some on the left. One of my biggest UM supporters, Uh,

996
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: while I was in Fort Leavenworth fought for me like crazy,

997
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: was a former Air Force criminal investigator who was a

998
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: hardcore Democrat. UM. And you know, she just she saw

999
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: what was ang and uh, she write she did her homework,

1000
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: which is I think the discriminator. You gotta do your homework.

1001
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: If you don't do the homework, then you then you're

1002
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: left just believe whatever the New York Times says. Right,

1003
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: So if you do your homework, you see something's wrong. So, UM,

1004
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: I had those people to bring me through Fort Leavenworth.

1005
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: There were so many thousands of people who wrote to

1006
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: me over the years and kept me going, and I

1007
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: write about them a lot in the book, about the

1008
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: specific ones who really motivated me. And so you know,

1009
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: when I when I President Trump got elected, I knew

1010
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: that President Trump was somebody who really don't give a

1011
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: hoot about um what the mainstream media says about him. UM.

1012
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: And he doesn't really care about Uh, he'll he'll ruffle

1013
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: feathers if if, if it's the right thing to do.

1014
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: And so I knew the moment that he got elected,

1015
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: I went and told one of my friends there, Uh,

1016
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: we were talking about it, and he said, don't don't

1017
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: you think President Trump is a good thing for for you?

1018
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 1: And I said, uh, well, what are you talking about?

1019
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: And he was like, well, are you serious. President Trump

1020
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: is gonna get you out of here. Man, I know

1021
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: he is. And so that's what really kind of got me,

1022
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, all thinking along those lines. And I started

1023
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: paying closer attention to the President and what he was

1024
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: saying and so on and so forth, and I was like,

1025
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: you know what, this guy is gonna do something. He

1026
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: is And so we we tried to um focus our campaign,

1027
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 1: uh you know, my my freedom campaign on on trying

1028
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: to get my case in front of the president. And

1029
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,479
Speaker 1: once we finally did achieve that, um, the President saw

1030
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: it and he did his homework. And you know a

1031
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: lot of people say things about the President. They say

1032
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: that he's you know, doesn't pay close attention, he doesn't

1033
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: like details. That's wrong, It's absolutely wrong. I've met him

1034
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: twice the man cares about people, and that is what

1035
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: he lives his life by. He cares about the little guy.

1036
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: And um, he definitely cares about people that the Democrats

1037
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: don't care about because he sees that. And so, you know,

1038
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: talking to him on the phone, UM, I was just

1039
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: sitting in my prison cell on some men see okay,

1040
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: I'm and got me and said, you know, you got

1041
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 1: a phone call. And I talked about this more in detail,

1042
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: uh in the book, but um, you know, when I

1043
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: actually got on the phone with the president, UM, I got,

1044
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: the first impression of him was that he stops all time. Uh,

1045
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: and he he he blocks out everything around him when

1046
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: he wants to focus on one thing and one person.

1047
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: And he did that. It's like he it's like he

1048
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: posted you know, I'm not saying he did this, but

1049
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: this is what it seemed like. It's like he posted

1050
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: secret Service agents at his office door when he was

1051
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: on the phone with me and said, don't let anybody in.

1052
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: I'm I'm making a phone call. And so there was

1053
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: no interruption. It was like I had his full and

1054
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: undivided attention, and I could not believe that the President

1055
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: of the United States took you know, over ten minutes

1056
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: of his time to do that, and at the end

1057
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: and he was you know throughout the whole time, and

1058
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: the Vice President was there and and and I just

1059
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: thought it was just amazing and and you know, you know,

1060
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: I talked about some of the fight that we had

1061
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: even after the President him signed the part um to

1062
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: to still get out because the de Pentagon was refusing

1063
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: to let me out. And you can read about that

1064
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: more in the book. But um, you know, talking to

1065
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: the president, uh and and being able to actually meet him,

1066
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: and you know, he actually invited me on stage to

1067
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: uh talk And luckily, I'm kind of a boy scout,

1068
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: so I always have something prepared, so I had to

1069
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: speak prepared just in case. Um, so you know, he

1070
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: was a he he let me have his podium for

1071
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: for thirteen minutes or so, um eleven or thirteen minutes,

1072
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: and I just thought that was amazing. And at some

1073
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: point I turned around and he's standing behind me back

1074
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: there with major that Matt Golstein, and uh, I asked him,

1075
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, I I good, Mr President, Like I don't

1076
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: want to think and he's just like he's kind of

1077
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: just ways to be honest, Like yeah, I keep going

1078
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: kids do its side. But uh, he's just I'm telling you,

1079
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: he's just uh, just a good dude. He's somebody who

1080
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: um and I've said this before too, he kind of

1081
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: I think he he know and he realizes that he's

1082
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: the president and you're not the president, and so he

1083
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: wants to make you feel comfortable, um and so. And

1084
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: I think he does that because he wants you. He

1085
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 1: doesn't want He doesn't like people kissing his butt, which

1086
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: I think is why the Pentagon doesn't like him, because

1087
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: they have a butt kissing mentality, right, So he doesn't

1088
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: like it when people do that. He wants people to

1089
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: tell him how things actually are, and he wants people

1090
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: to to to drop all the fancy nonsense and tell

1091
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: him exactly what's going on. And I think that's something

1092
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: that makes him different from from any of the other presidents.

1093
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: They want to hear all the fancy nonsense. Well, I

1094
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: think that hits it right on the head. And I

1095
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: know you have something you have to do this afternoon,

1096
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: so we're gonna have to Unfortunately we have to cut

1097
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: this short. But we want to once again thank you

1098
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: for joining us, and we encourage all our listeners and

1099
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: readers out there for soft Rap UH by Clint's books

1100
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: that's coming out. It'll be out in September. We were

1101
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: lucky enough to get an advanced copy of it so

1102
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: we could talk about it here on the podcast. It

1103
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: will be a quick page turning for you, folks, because

1104
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: once you start reading it, you won't want to put

1105
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: it down. And there's a lot of things in there

1106
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: that are going to be very uncomfortable. I'll just leave

1107
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: it at that, and you've heard some of them. We've

1108
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: we've kind of glossed over some of the stuff today

1109
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: just because of the time shortage. But Clint, we're so

1110
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: glad from all of us here at soft Rap that

1111
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: we're talking to you now as a freeman and you're

1112
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: able to get back to your life and you know, uh,

1113
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: you're you're now in law school. We wish you all

1114
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: the best and thank you once again for joining us. Uh.

1115
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: We would love to do this again with you some

1116
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: other time. Sure, Thank you, Steve. It was great to

1117
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: be on with you, and I'll be around if you

1118
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: ever want to talk again for sure. All right, Well,

1119
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: good luck in uh in law school. I know that

1120
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: won't be easy. Um, that's that's beyond some of us

1121
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: who are sitting here right now, that's beyond my scope

1122
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: of things. So uh, I wish you all the luck

1123
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: with that. Um but you know I and I wish

1124
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: you all the luck with the book coming out. I

1125
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: think it's something people need to read. It's something people

1126
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: need to know about because, um, it should have never

1127
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: ever happened. And uh, well, I agree with you. We're

1128
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: gonna fix it, man, And I think the first the

1129
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: first step to warn fixing it is to get people

1130
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: to read that so they don't know what's what's actually happening.

1131
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you having me on. Okay, well, thanks again,

1132
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 1: and uh we'll we'll be obviously talking again in the future.

1133
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: But from all of us here, it's Software Bradio, myself,

1134
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,439
Speaker 1: Steve al Jeri, our guest Clint Lawrence. Thank you all

1135
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: for listening. Uh, Software Bradio on Time on Target. We'll

1136
01:01:40,640 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: be back with another podcast real soon, The Little Anning

1137
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: to Self Red Radia