Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making
Speaker 1: of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Stacy Wilson Hunt, and with me today are three legends
Speaker 1: of the theater world, Anna Davie Smith, Terry Kenny and
Speaker 1: Jeff Perry, who play scarberreas Maud, Barry and Lou In
Speaker 1: case you've forgotten, Scriberria is the nickname of the back
Speaker 1: corner of Manhattan Magazine, whereas Vivian says, the bosses quote
Speaker 1: send the old writers to die. But these irascible, hilarious
Speaker 1: characters not only end up being key to vivian success,
Speaker 1: They've also become some of the series biggest fan favorites.
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone. I have to say I'm not supposed to
Speaker 1: play favorites in this podcast, but I am particularly giddy
Speaker 1: about having the three of you on a show. Just
Speaker 1: today on Twitter, somebody tweeted me and Shawnda and said
Speaker 1: I would totally watch a show just with the scribe
Speaker 1: area people. So I'm just saying, keep it, keep it
Speaker 1: as an option, and I would love to know how
Speaker 1: has the fan reaction to scribe area felt to you, Jeff,
Speaker 1: have you been hearing any rumblings of fandom on your end?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, A lot of friends and family have
Speaker 1: chimed in with big love on the scribe area, miss
Speaker 1: of the shows and how much of it was shocked
Speaker 1: that I was employed and they were trying to encourage
Speaker 1: encourage me whatever. But but anyway, I said, Seanna, it's
Speaker 1: just been such a gift man won And what are
Speaker 1: people particularly liking? What have you heard from people about
Speaker 1: what resonates so much with these characters? Hey, my two cents,
Speaker 1: I want to hear from men and tear um. From
Speaker 1: the very first reading, I felt kind of audience e
Speaker 1: of this is a really fun conception, something about this
Speaker 1: little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia.
Speaker 1: I think Anna took issue with you using the word
Speaker 1: old just now, by the way, sorry sorry I was
Speaker 1: the only old one. Sorry veteran let's say veteran um.
Speaker 1: It just felt like it really worked off the page,
Speaker 1: and oh, this is gonna be so fun to be
Speaker 1: able to do. And then when I heard it was
Speaker 1: with Anna da Vere, who I had been a fan
Speaker 1: of for years and years and years, and then that
Speaker 1: it was my boyhood buddy, Terry Kenney. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. I got
Speaker 1: to gush to people too of did you know, because
Speaker 1: he usually was friends or family have known me for
Speaker 1: fifty years? Did you know that this is Terry and
Speaker 1: my pretty much first camera work ever in our decades.
Speaker 1: I was actually going to bring that up, which I
Speaker 1: found to be a stunning discovery. Terry, walk me through this.
Speaker 1: How is it possible you've never shared the screen with
Speaker 1: your old buddy? I don't know. I mean our friends
Speaker 1: making movies. You think they'd put us both in there
Speaker 1: like Gary, you know, put put me in a small role.
Speaker 1: But there where was Jeff? Not nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1: I did small bit of trivia direct Jeff in my
Speaker 1: first feature. I did a feature and Jeff had a
Speaker 1: really nice role in it. But that's about it. And
Speaker 1: I would love for those who don't know your storied
Speaker 1: history as co founders of Steppenwolf, Terry, tell me when
Speaker 1: you first met Jeff and how that relationship grew into
Speaker 1: this venerable institution in Chicago. I was at Illinois State
Speaker 1: University and Jeff came in in an orientation and he
Speaker 1: had really messed up hair and dirty glasses and a
Speaker 1: flannel shirt. I just thought, I like this guy. I
Speaker 1: just I just saw him. I was in class, was
Speaker 1: supposed to be paying attention, but I just zoned in
Speaker 1: on him as a friend. And it was turned out
Speaker 1: to be true, because he he showed up the following
Speaker 1: year and maybe the first day we just connected and
Speaker 1: he came over to our house and I just think
Speaker 1: he never left. We were together the rest of college,
Speaker 1: you know, just hanging out. That's how I got to
Speaker 1: know Gary through him. And this is Gary Sinise for
Speaker 1: those who are wondering who Gary is here? Oh yes,
Speaker 1: Gary Sinise. After my sophomore year in Jeff's freshman he said,
Speaker 1: would you like to come live in my parents basement
Speaker 1: and then do Rosenkrats and Gilling sn or dead. I said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: and so we we did that. We did it in
Speaker 1: a Unitarian church and that was our first step in
Speaker 1: wolf play. It was two years before we started the
Speaker 1: theater with our college friends. I love that. That is
Speaker 1: so inspiring. And speaking of theater, Anna herself a staple
Speaker 1: of theater. What were you doing at the time these
Speaker 1: fellows were doing their college antics in the basement, etcetera.
Speaker 1: First of all, I just have to say that I
Speaker 1: didn't know the story about those college antics until being
Speaker 1: with these two gentlemen in in hair and makeup. And
Speaker 1: I tell it all the time because I'm still a teacher.
Speaker 1: I teach at your university, and I just say, you know,
Speaker 1: just like give them a basement and have it opened.
Speaker 1: Isn't that also the case y'all? That it was like
Speaker 1: you could just go into the theater all day or night,
Speaker 1: just leave the door open, and something's gonna happen. Because
Speaker 1: they made Stepan will End, they made remarkable careers, like
Speaker 1: the whole group of them. So I do tell that
Speaker 1: story all the time myself. I don't know what year
Speaker 1: was that, three four, five six, Well, I was at
Speaker 1: the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco studying, and uh,
Speaker 1: actually they did give me the keys. I have to say,
Speaker 1: the friends of a CT, who were these sort of
Speaker 1: you know, women wearing Papa galos and khaki skirts and
Speaker 1: doing all good things for the theater and probably raising money,
Speaker 1: they did give me the keys to their office because
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have a typewriter, and I could
Speaker 1: go in there and use the typewriter until they arrived
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock in the morning. So I did have
Speaker 1: a version of that which allowed me to write my
Speaker 1: first play at a CT early in the morning with
Speaker 1: those keys. I love that. All we need is a basement, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: you just need keys somewhere. Jeff, I'd love to talk
Speaker 1: to you about your visit to New York Magazine in
Speaker 1: preparation to play this part. And Jessica Pressler, of course,
Speaker 1: the amazing journalist who wrote the piece that inspired the show.
Speaker 1: She gave an interview recently where she talked about your visit,
Speaker 1: and she said this quote. When Jeff arrives, Mark Jacobson,
Speaker 1: who is a legend, looks at him and says, the
Speaker 1: great thing about being a journalist is that you aren't
Speaker 1: impressed by anybody. Unfortunately, Jeff didn't seem to be offended
Speaker 1: that he wasn't the center of attention. I love this
Speaker 1: because I've been a journalist for twenty years. There's something
Speaker 1: so wonderful about having to be stone faced about everything
Speaker 1: you see in here throughout your day, because if you're affected,
Speaker 1: you really can't do your job. Properly. I'm wondering what
Speaker 1: did you learn from Mark and also being there that
Speaker 1: day that helped inform your character. Yes, so look at
Speaker 1: here's quick notes that are from January, which must have
Speaker 1: been right around the time that Jessica did me this
Speaker 1: gift of come with your little tape recorder and dada, dada.
Speaker 1: You're paid for what you're right, so you can go
Speaker 1: weeks telling your editors you don't have a story that
Speaker 1: you love at the moment. Like a baseball team, you
Speaker 1: all you might all have different contracts. You have a
Speaker 1: difficult dance of getting people to talk having explained your angle,
Speaker 1: but the story can change on you. You have numerous
Speaker 1: irons in the fire because you don't know which stories
Speaker 1: are gonna pay it out. You get assignments and you
Speaker 1: pitch your own. You get typecasts as a journalist, as
Speaker 1: a writer for good or ill artistically, just as actors
Speaker 1: do based on successes. You sometimes get assigned stuff in
Speaker 1: a colleague's wheelhouse because they're busy and you're not. Usually
Speaker 1: help each other with your roll at ex contacts if
Speaker 1: asked by fellow witer writers like documentary creators, you've fallen
Speaker 1: in love at some early age with nonfiction, with listening
Speaker 1: to other human stories, you learn, sometimes the hard way
Speaker 1: and sometimes slowly, that listening is much more valuable to
Speaker 1: your task than talking. You love research, detection, and the
Speaker 1: hard part is usually putting that research into the form
Speaker 1: of a story. The rewriting, the back and forth of
Speaker 1: editor notes is relatively an easier process. If you get
Speaker 1: flowers from a subject, you've probably not done your job.
Speaker 1: That is so brilliant. So those were the notes, and
Speaker 1: Terry and Anna, what felt familiar to the two of you?
Speaker 1: About what Jeff shared in terms of how it relates
Speaker 1: to your craft as actors. There's a lot of overlap here, right,
Speaker 1: tell me, Terry, what felt familiar to you? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a highly competitive thing, and it said the pay scales,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't know what anybody else is making.
Speaker 1: Your status gets uh interrupted by what you haven't done
Speaker 1: for a while. Your type cast to write certain stories.
Speaker 1: If you write about glamorous people, they make you do that,
Speaker 1: and you may have a think piece on something else
Speaker 1: you want to do, but they're not very interested in that.
Speaker 1: What you did last is usually the offers you get next.
Speaker 1: It's similar with acting, and it becomes important if you
Speaker 1: want to change it up, to turn those down if
Speaker 1: you can, and then do something completely different the next time.
Speaker 1: I love that. And you really do have to assert
Speaker 1: yourself to and say I can do more than what
Speaker 1: you think I can. That's what really resonated with me
Speaker 1: and watching the show. It was having to remind your bosses,
Speaker 1: I'm not just one thing, right. And Anna, I know
Speaker 1: you've actually done a fair amount of interviewing in your job,
Speaker 1: in your many capacities as an academic. Tell me what
Speaker 1: you knew about interviewing as an art form, and tell
Speaker 1: me what you learned about this craft from preparing to
Speaker 1: play this character. Well, I actually traveled on the I
Speaker 1: was hired by Newsweek to travel on the Clinton presidential
Speaker 1: campaign and on the Dole campaign in nineties six, and
Speaker 1: so I traveled with the press corps, and uh, I
Speaker 1: got a chance to, you know, meet a lot of
Speaker 1: journalists and just live that life, which is very hard,
Speaker 1: especially following a campaign. You really don't you know in
Speaker 1: that way, it's like acting. I mean you're kind of
Speaker 1: like in captivity to production, right as somebody gave me
Speaker 1: the advice, you know, p and when you can because
Speaker 1: you don't know when you're gonna be able to do
Speaker 1: it again. And I had a very good friend, Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Knew For the Lady Elizabeth Knew for who was a
Speaker 1: war correspondent and she covered Rwanda and Bosnia Kosovo and
Speaker 1: was actually killed in Iraq. Terrible. I'm so sorry. One
Speaker 1: of the things that I felt about Elizabeth when we
Speaker 1: became friends was just okay, so she can sleep anywhere
Speaker 1: and eat anything right, And it's that sort of toughness
Speaker 1: that I thought about in creating my character for this.
Speaker 1: But I would say that for all of us, you know,
Speaker 1: we're after the story to be a part of the
Speaker 1: story somehow. That's what we all have in common with journalists,
Speaker 1: I would say actors in journalists. I love that. So
Speaker 1: story is really at the core of both of these crofts. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: please stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors,
Speaker 1: and we're back. I'd love to just start walking through
Speaker 1: some scenes because there's so much to work with and
Speaker 1: each of you have such great insights to share. So
Speaker 1: I'd love to start with episode one and we get
Speaker 1: to see how scribe area relates to authority. You went
Speaker 1: to Rikers and it answered your letter. You went to rikers.
Speaker 1: Yes you went rogue, Good girl, fight the power of woman,
Speaker 1: keep your voices, dond your bones for bread. When you
Speaker 1: catch his hand the stone, he's not gonna catch you.
Speaker 1: Stop pumping your pillages and get over here and help them.
Speaker 1: And that really tells us from episode one, Oh, is
Speaker 1: this why they're inscribe area? Because they don't play nice?
Speaker 1: Do they not like to kind of play the politics
Speaker 1: of nice employee to their bosses? So tell me, Terry,
Speaker 1: how do you think this scene sets us up? Well?
Speaker 1: I think we're being into deduced as people that have
Speaker 1: been banished to the periphery in our own little cubical
Speaker 1: world because a they can't fire us. We all have Pulitzers,
Speaker 1: and secondly, we have no fox left to give. We
Speaker 1: don't answer to anybody, you know, and the suits that
Speaker 1: are coming down and giving us these bullshit assignments that
Speaker 1: we don't want to even do. We don't have to
Speaker 1: respect them. We don't have to respect them to their
Speaker 1: face or behind their backs. So I think that's what
Speaker 1: it sets up is a group of people that, you know,
Speaker 1: this young woman who was a successful writer and maybe
Speaker 1: made a mistake is banished to Scriberia and we are
Speaker 1: immediately attracted to her rogue energy, right. And it's interesting
Speaker 1: because Vivian's character, she's kind of nestled between the generations.
Speaker 1: She's not in full Scriberian mode, but she's not one
Speaker 1: of the new bees. And it's almost like is having
Speaker 1: this middle career crisis. Jeff, how do you think that
Speaker 1: this scene sort of establishes that for us? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we're in an age where long form journalism, and
Speaker 1: in fact all of journalism, is facing such existential threat.
Speaker 1: But just look at long form journalism where to exaggerate
Speaker 1: only slightly, only the Twitter twelve words or whatever the
Speaker 1: whatever it's maximum is, you know, can get anybody's attention.
Speaker 1: And I think I always assume that the three of us,
Speaker 1: in our own way felt such you know, sympathy, love, passion, um, God,
Speaker 1: damn it, it shall not vanish from the face of
Speaker 1: the earth. And there's somebody in their thirties who actually
Speaker 1: gives a shit about it and has talent and wants
Speaker 1: to stay here and not work for Twitter or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: she's worth fighting for. Right, And we see Vivian railing
Speaker 1: against this idea of clickbait and pushing back on the
Speaker 1: Me to Wall Street story because she's saying, this isn't
Speaker 1: the story we want to tell. And it's so inspiring
Speaker 1: to see her having that interaction with her boss, and
Speaker 1: as uncomfortable as it is in the moment, I think
Speaker 1: that's what gives them the respect for her ultimately. And
Speaker 1: an episode three, speaking of authority, we see the very
Speaker 1: funny scene with Vivian and Anna's characters shopping for underwear
Speaker 1: for Anna, and Maud says, Paul was an intern when
Speaker 1: I was writing cover stories. Do you know what you
Speaker 1: tell Paul? Tell him the sun? And Maud really is
Speaker 1: this wonderful mentor figure for Vivian throughout as the other
Speaker 1: woman in this scenario. And Anna tell me, how are
Speaker 1: you playing that scene with Vivian? And and first of all,
Speaker 1: how much fun were those moments? Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: how much fun that was. I think our call that
Speaker 1: day was something like three am, because you know, they
Speaker 1: had to shut down Burgdorfs, had to get to Burgdorfs,
Speaker 1: had to very expense if you can imagine, and get
Speaker 1: it done before you know, whatever time that the people
Speaker 1: come to Burgdorf survivor six hundred dollar purses or hundred
Speaker 1: prants or whatever, so there was that. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that somebody like Maud, I mean, let's face it,
Speaker 1: she probably really had to fight her way into this
Speaker 1: business from the very beginning. I think about somebody who
Speaker 1: I met on that campaign trail that I told you about,
Speaker 1: the late gent Eiffel, right, who was at the New
Speaker 1: York Times, and then you know, on TV and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and you know, let's face it, you know,
Speaker 1: we are the people who are not in hair and makeup.
Speaker 1: We're not the glam journalists on television. All three of
Speaker 1: us were the people who had to fight to get
Speaker 1: the story. And you know, I think those type of
Speaker 1: journalists don't like authority anyway, because part of journalism is
Speaker 1: to question authority and to question power. I really not
Speaker 1: to go for power, so you bring that into everything,
Speaker 1: and you know, I just want her to know that
Speaker 1: this guy is just like a fly that you've got
Speaker 1: to learn how to swat him away stand up for yourself.
Speaker 1: And it's hard too, because I think, especially a character
Speaker 1: like Vivian who's a woman, we are raised to respect authority.
Speaker 1: We are raised to not speak too much, we are
Speaker 1: raised to oh that's my assignment okay, thank you. And
Speaker 1: it's just as a woman who's been in this business,
Speaker 1: it's so fun to see her say no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is the story that is worth my time. And
Speaker 1: that's what I think is such a great takeaway from Vivian.
Speaker 1: And I know we've all been in that situation where
Speaker 1: we have to fight just telling someone, trust me, this
Speaker 1: is worth telling. And I'm sure as actors too, you've
Speaker 1: had specially Terry if you've made a movie, anyone who's
Speaker 1: had to sell a project, and it's all your plays.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of convincing, right, I mean, just showing
Speaker 1: up for an audition, you have to look like you're
Speaker 1: having a good time, but what you're really there too
Speaker 1: is to embody convincing. For me, I hate auditioning. I
Speaker 1: don't know about these two gentlemen. But it's enduring the thing.
Speaker 1: It's endurance death, yes, aproposal that the actor uh Emmett Walsh.
Speaker 1: I was on my first job as an actor and
Speaker 1: very young. It was a mini series and I was
Speaker 1: playing the main person because I just got it was
Speaker 1: like the lotto, and he came up to me and
Speaker 1: we were going through, you know, all of the pre production.
Speaker 1: He goes, what are you playing kids? And I said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm playing this guy, you know. And he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: you're the guy, and he goes, did you have to audition?
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I did audition. He goes, that's
Speaker 1: what I called dancing on the head of a pin.
Speaker 1: I always thought of it that way. Afterwards. It's such
Speaker 1: a delicate thing to maintain and not get discouraged and
Speaker 1: keep wanting to show up. You have a hard job,
Speaker 1: so just know that we acknowledge that. Well, it's not
Speaker 1: hard though, when you're when you get the job right,
Speaker 1: Jeff writing, Yeah, yeah, we had nothing but fun. I
Speaker 1: think it shows. I mean I look at it, and
Speaker 1: usually I can't look at anything where my body shows up,
Speaker 1: But in this case, I just remembered the fun of
Speaker 1: the day so much. And when we crack up on camera,
Speaker 1: we were cracking up, you know. We we cracked each
Speaker 1: other up a lot, and that was rare and and fun.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't it like work? Oh yeah, that was
Speaker 1: that is a rarer, I mean somewhat rare. And they look, look,
Speaker 1: we're grateful for all sorts of work we've gotten to do,
Speaker 1: and you love it and it is your fuel, but
Speaker 1: this one is really kind of rare in like that
Speaker 1: was all fun, right. So, something that's come up online
Speaker 1: among fans of inventing Anna is this idea of Vivian's
Speaker 1: colleagues being so supportive of her in environments where we're
Speaker 1: so used to people being at each other's throats and
Speaker 1: being very competitive, And there's a great moment where she
Speaker 1: comes back to the office and you really see them
Speaker 1: kind of surrounding her with this you know, virtual hug
Speaker 1: where they really feel protective of her. What Dalovan Lamb
Speaker 1: gave an interview about you. America Investigative is doing a
Speaker 1: show about bad journalism, and one of the subjects is
Speaker 1: you maybe I'm fine, Hey, it's okay, fine, I um,
Speaker 1: I am fine. You want to see the promo? Get
Speaker 1: it over with. Is it a generational thing for maybe
Speaker 1: the older veteran folks to feel more supportive and protective
Speaker 1: of the younger folks or is this something that you
Speaker 1: feel sort of baked into this environment. What are your thoughts, Terry,
Speaker 1: I would say it's baked into the environment. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's anything generational. What's generational is that we don't
Speaker 1: have to be political about what we like and what
Speaker 1: we don't like, and we like her. We like that
Speaker 1: she's banished. We like that she's found mout. We like
Speaker 1: that she's passionate, driven, that she's got a story she
Speaker 1: wants to tell. She's being told absolutely not, you're not
Speaker 1: doing it. Move over to the other story. And she's saying,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. That's our kind of person.
Speaker 1: We love. She's banished, right, I mean, so there's already
Speaker 1: there's something about us that's not normal, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: we were banished, and I think we protect her because
Speaker 1: she needs protecting. We know, Paul, and we swooped down
Speaker 1: as the you know, the larger eagles or whatever and
Speaker 1: fend off predators. Besides, we do have generational old school values.
Speaker 1: And so there's this weird you know, like, my character
Speaker 1: is a complete misogynist, you know, really, is that how
Speaker 1: you read her? Really? Oh? He's yes, that's how the
Speaker 1: other Scriberians read him to. He's constantly talking about how
Speaker 1: she's pregnant and what are we going to do about that?
Speaker 1: You know, the baby's gonna come shoot it out of
Speaker 1: her ruchie or whatever. He says. He's protective for that
Speaker 1: reason too, because you know, he doesn't think she can
Speaker 1: do both things at once or something. He's just had
Speaker 1: no exposure. He's just been in foreign lands around gun
Speaker 1: fire all his life. And in that same episode, um Anna,
Speaker 1: you have the fantastic line where you say, we didn't
Speaker 1: want to inscribe area, but you're here and you're not
Speaker 1: a revolting millennial. I have to imagine that people specifically
Speaker 1: thirty five and older, forty and older. There isn't anyone
Speaker 1: who's been in a workplace who hasn't had to adjust
Speaker 1: with a new generation coming in, right, right, right, First
Speaker 1: of all, I just loved the way what Terry just said.
Speaker 1: We love that she's banished. That's number one. Number two,
Speaker 1: she does not completely disrespect us, no right, and so
Speaker 1: I think you know, our job thinking about the way
Speaker 1: Terry said that is to make Criberia the best part
Speaker 1: of the room, to make it cool. And she's a
Speaker 1: good person to have a long for that. She has
Speaker 1: all the right criteria. It's a form of rebellion. Right
Speaker 1: to love that which is banished and create a space
Speaker 1: of love in that and care in there, you know,
Speaker 1: which is the antithesis of what Paul does. Don't go
Speaker 1: anywhere there's more behind the scenes of inventing Anna right
Speaker 1: after this. Okay, ready to hear more. You know what's
Speaker 1: so interesting though, These banished individuals are really what gives
Speaker 1: these magazines their cachet and credibility. So it's sad in
Speaker 1: a sense that these people would ever feel banished when
Speaker 1: they are really at the heart of these organizations. Does
Speaker 1: that feel familiar to you in in terms of theater
Speaker 1: and the work that you've done. Oh my god. A
Speaker 1: playwright that Terry and I grew up with, Lanford Wilson,
Speaker 1: may he rest in beautiful theater piece. But he has
Speaker 1: one of one of his striking plays called Balman Gilead,
Speaker 1: and it's a collection of people he called hustas, transvestite,
Speaker 1: small town crooks, most people not able to rub two
Speaker 1: nickels together, all moving in and out of an all
Speaker 1: night diner. And he gave one phrase describing the whole
Speaker 1: milieu is going These are losers who refuse to lose.
Speaker 1: And when Terry and I think of the things that
Speaker 1: we have been drawn to for years, and it could
Speaker 1: be John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, it could be
Speaker 1: bomb and Gilliad, it could be mice and men. It
Speaker 1: could be all sorts of all sorts, of different kinds
Speaker 1: of expression. A commonality are three legged dogs. The human
Speaker 1: condition of while you are, you are endangered, um and
Speaker 1: yet you still are finding some way to survive, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think we've always had great empathy for that, right,
Speaker 1: And it's just a it's a matter of we've always
Speaker 1: just been attracted to the stories of the of the peripheral.
Speaker 1: Laurie Metcalfalan said that we tell the story of the
Speaker 1: person that you crossed the street to avoid one way
Speaker 1: or another. We've been infected with that. And I think
Speaker 1: we found a soulmate in Anna that we understood this
Speaker 1: being on the far end, away from everything somebody else
Speaker 1: might have been offended by, as a kind of a
Speaker 1: safe zone, a safe zone to do whatever we want
Speaker 1: whenever we want it, and to show up whenever we want.
Speaker 1: You know, Anna, did you have something to add? I
Speaker 1: love that idea of the people who refuse to lose.
Speaker 1: And I'm very all my workers about the disenfranchise. And
Speaker 1: I like to look at the world upside down of
Speaker 1: a dramatist. I like catastrophe. I think that most people
Speaker 1: walking around are performing and don't know it, and so
Speaker 1: I'm very interested in the unperformed, like the person who
Speaker 1: refuses to perform the bourgeois of the middle class. And
Speaker 1: I'm attracted to suffering not for suffering sake, but I
Speaker 1: think that sometimes people who really have a drama or
Speaker 1: a crisis in their own life have something very beautiful
Speaker 1: to share. So I always want to be around to
Speaker 1: be able to hear that. People who would be screaming
Speaker 1: something from the mountaintop, whatever it is, I just want
Speaker 1: to be passing by when that happens, because so much
Speaker 1: of the rest of it is about being obedient. On
Speaker 1: that note, the perfect segue to what I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about next, which is how scarb Area feels about
Speaker 1: Anna delb And we see their feelings about her start
Speaker 1: with kind of like oh whatever, this cookie party girl,
Speaker 1: and you almost see them getting caught up and supporting
Speaker 1: her in a sense and liking her, Yeah, sticking it
Speaker 1: to the man sort of antics. Kind of stole a
Speaker 1: fucking jet. Listen, Anna never paid no card, no wire
Speaker 1: or nothing. She actually stole a plane. Latest pressing charges
Speaker 1: and working with the d A. They're saying she scamming.
Speaker 1: How do you steal a plane. I can't scam an
Speaker 1: extra legum seat from Celta, but this kid is scamming
Speaker 1: a private jet to Omaha. Kudos, Jeff, Tell me how
Speaker 1: you felt about that. There's an aspect of this story.
Speaker 1: Part of it is arguably an indictment of, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the environment we've created where someone is just gonna fake it,
Speaker 1: fake it, fake it, and be all about appearance, and
Speaker 1: be all about a roll of one hundred dollar bills
Speaker 1: and be all about what am I wearing and what
Speaker 1: purse do I have? And what occasion am I showing
Speaker 1: up to and how many selfies get on Instagram and
Speaker 1: that edit. And at the same time there was this
Speaker 1: undeniable scale had a very interesting plan. She speaks, how
Speaker 1: many languages, she does, what and what she convinced how
Speaker 1: many thirty, forty, fifty, sixty and seventy year olds deep
Speaker 1: into their own niche of profession, whether it's in art collecting,
Speaker 1: yacht collecting, real estate, private wealth management, d D D
Speaker 1: d D banks that this was a good idea. And
Speaker 1: you go, wait a competitor to Soho House based on
Speaker 1: this and based on that and based on it, that's
Speaker 1: a good business plan. So in a sense Scarberius, the
Speaker 1: sort of a kinship with her. Yeah, there's something that
Speaker 1: you know, there's something about it. There's a duality to Anna,
Speaker 1: and it's exemplified in uh in the final episode in
Speaker 1: the trial stuff where Todd says, look, I know there's
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra fans here. You do realize that he staged
Speaker 1: faintings and ambulance is showing up and this and that
Speaker 1: to create the mystique of his genius and terry. Do
Speaker 1: you think that your characters were rooting for Anna to
Speaker 1: be found innocent, the idea that someone like her could
Speaker 1: get away with this. It's almost like they were waiting
Speaker 1: to hear the score of their favorite sports team as
Speaker 1: those slacks were coming through. Guilty, Hotel guilty, w Hotel guilty,
Speaker 1: Dan Hotel guilty. Well that's them, and they were really
Speaker 1: let down by the results. Well, they were hoping against hope.
Speaker 1: You know, the more you learn about someone, the more
Speaker 1: you know. And they got into her childhood, they knew,
Speaker 1: they knew that there were scars that created the person,
Speaker 1: but they also knew, you know, the patriarchy are out
Speaker 1: there with other people's money all the time. It's kind
Speaker 1: of easy for them. It wasn't at all easy for her.
Speaker 1: So yes, my character personally was definitely rooting for her
Speaker 1: to get off because she was an anarchist and her
Speaker 1: eccentricity only made money people trust her more. How brilliant
Speaker 1: you know, everyone still wants to know. They can watch
Speaker 1: the entire thing and then they go, no, wait, how
Speaker 1: did she have all those hundred dollar bills? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's explained, but it's kind of hard to absorb absolutely
Speaker 1: exactly how she convinced people that she had the money.
Speaker 1: But tipping is a very good way to make people
Speaker 1: think you have a lot of money. I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk about a scene that Jeff and Anna Klumsky have
Speaker 1: in the bathroom, seeing how conflicted Vivian is about betraying
Speaker 1: her scribe area friends for the better Office landed off
Speaker 1: for me in office next to Paul's a girl movie,
Speaker 1: a scrape area. That's the goal, Vivian, it was mine
Speaker 1: the white dress, animar h took it out of my closet.
Speaker 1: Lou yep and Jeff, In terms of the prep that
Speaker 1: you did with Anna Klumsky, it sounds like you really
Speaker 1: worked that scene a lot. What what kind of conversations
Speaker 1: did you have with her about that scene. I know
Speaker 1: was impressed with all freelance project work that you throw
Speaker 1: yourself into. It has this very often inevitable depression at
Speaker 1: the end of it. I think in the scene she
Speaker 1: says something like, what do I do now? Sort of
Speaker 1: that high of the story had dissipated. She's had her baby,
Speaker 1: these two things that she was giving to really at
Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, and it's lovely. It's got lovely
Speaker 1: little levels and not that many words. I think writing wise,
Speaker 1: you know that that she says in a few different ways.
Speaker 1: I promised her fame I delivered to a great extent,
Speaker 1: and I knew that one real possibility was that fame
Speaker 1: is gonna land you in jail and lead me to
Speaker 1: an office and to a bigger salary and to everything
Speaker 1: I want. But in the age of influencer, fame is money.
Speaker 1: I think she's struggling with that equation. You know, something
Speaker 1: just came to me, And this is actually perfect for
Speaker 1: my final question, which I'd love for Anna to answer.
Speaker 1: This idea of an influencer. I think this term has
Speaker 1: become so negative, right. I think there is such a
Speaker 1: thing as positive influence, and what we see Vivian fighting
Speaker 1: for throughout the show is the preservation of grammar and
Speaker 1: stories and the written word. So if we see her
Speaker 1: as almost like an influencer in her own right, Anna,
Speaker 1: what do you think we can do as a culture
Speaker 1: to make sure that we preserve storytelling, we preserve the
Speaker 1: written word. That yes, Instagram can exist and TikTok can exist,
Speaker 1: but someone like you can still write your plays and
Speaker 1: make sure they get made and that people see this
Speaker 1: and appreciate this EON's old art form that is so important. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that Shonda Rhymes is one of the world's
Speaker 1: most influential storytellers, and I think that the storytelling speaks
Speaker 1: for itself in this project, And I think Shonda's history
Speaker 1: of storytelling and how her stories have affected people and
Speaker 1: have affected our culture speaks for itself. It's Shonda and
Speaker 1: her ability to bring around her great storytellers is in
Speaker 1: and of itself something that's out there that I think,
Speaker 1: whether people are completely aware of it or not, they
Speaker 1: understand what it means to be attracted to a story.
Speaker 1: You know, going from a friend of mine who was
Speaker 1: a former Melissa had a former U S attorney who
Speaker 1: was just addicted to this to Janelle, who works in
Speaker 1: my doctor's office, who I called to speak to my doctor, said,
Speaker 1: everybody's watching it. You know that that this story has
Speaker 1: that kind of appeal that people are addicted to a
Speaker 1: great story. And you couldn't have told this story in
Speaker 1: whatever number of characters on Twitter. So I think that
Speaker 1: that has an influence right there. It is so beautifully,
Speaker 1: said Anna, And such a wonderful way to wrap this
Speaker 1: up and really put a nice bow on it. And Terry,
Speaker 1: did you have anything to add Well? The only thing
Speaker 1: I was thinking about you because I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: it ever since somebody one of one of us said
Speaker 1: Greek chorus. And I've always loved Greek choruses. And I
Speaker 1: think we were given the exposition of this story. We
Speaker 1: are the audience in a way, learning things and sending
Speaker 1: out that information. I can tell you as an actor
Speaker 1: that usually exposition is presented in an awkward, clumsy way,
Speaker 1: and especially on television, it's difficult. It's hard to remember
Speaker 1: because you're not invested in it's just information that has
Speaker 1: to get out there. I think Shanda did that really well.
Speaker 1: And I think back to what the origins of Greek
Speaker 1: chorus was and it was the dithorems, right, that were
Speaker 1: these hymns that big masses of people did, and it
Speaker 1: was all for Diane Issus at the time. And then
Speaker 1: Thespis came in and walked out and joined the play
Speaker 1: from the chorus, and that became tragedy, you know, So
Speaker 1: so now Greek choruses were involved with tragedy. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of both of those things in this story.
Speaker 1: You know, all of her Folly and Oliver Champagne and
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and then all of this tragedy and
Speaker 1: we were there for all of it. That the evolution
Speaker 1: of our characters and the chorus part of it, I
Speaker 1: think had much to do with that. And I want
Speaker 1: to just add one little tiny thing, which I think
Speaker 1: is either Shanda's work, Linda's work, Betsy Bear's work, Somebody's work,
Speaker 1: to give exposition to the three of us who have
Speaker 1: been around so long. I felt of us like jazz
Speaker 1: musicians really because of the opportunity for me to work
Speaker 1: with people of this this skilled is that the exposition
Speaker 1: felt less like trying to sing the song we all know, right,
Speaker 1: the exposition song, and then and then and then. And
Speaker 1: that's why that's why is spinning it off of these
Speaker 1: two felt like being what I would imagine it would
Speaker 1: be like to be in a jam session. And so
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful thing about this medium, this visual media,
Speaker 1: that there's the story and then there are all of
Speaker 1: these other people who come in to make it work
Speaker 1: a certain way. I love that well. I want to
Speaker 1: thank all of you for being here and letting us
Speaker 1: fan out over scribe area, because I have to say,
Speaker 1: I can see these kids get in their own show someday.
Speaker 1: So let's let's keep that talk alive. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that would be a gift. There's a yes,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a line in the Arthur Miller play
Speaker 1: The Price where Solomon, you know, he says, oh, please
Speaker 1: just come back another time, and Solomon goes, if I
Speaker 1: should live? That's how I feel. Well. May we all
Speaker 1: live and thrive and stay well. And again, thank you
Speaker 1: all for your time. I know you're very busy, so
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. Thank you, Bye bye, nice to
Speaker 1: be together. Thank you, Stacy, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Next week, we hear from Emmy winning costume designer Lynn
Speaker 1: Powlow about how she recreated Anna Delvie's signature looks for television.
Speaker 1: Anna was a chameleon, and she used every tool she
Speaker 1: could to become whatever was acceptable, whoever was acceptable in
Speaker 1: a given situation. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, Share
Speaker 1: with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. All
Speaker 1: that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging Shonda
Speaker 1: Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. We
Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna the
Speaker 1: Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman,
Speaker 1: Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 1: Nicholas Harder and I'm your host Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.