1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host, 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Stacy Wilson Hunt, and with me today are three legends 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: of the theater world, Anna Davie Smith, Terry Kenny and 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Jeff Perry, who play scarberreas Maud, Barry and Lou In 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: case you've forgotten, Scriberria is the nickname of the back 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: corner of Manhattan Magazine, whereas Vivian says, the bosses quote 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: send the old writers to die. But these irascible, hilarious 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: characters not only end up being key to vivian success, 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: They've also become some of the series biggest fan favorites. 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone. I have to say I'm not supposed to 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: play favorites in this podcast, but I am particularly giddy 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: about having the three of you on a show. Just 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: today on Twitter, somebody tweeted me and Shawnda and said 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: I would totally watch a show just with the scribe 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: area people. So I'm just saying, keep it, keep it 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: as an option, and I would love to know how 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: has the fan reaction to scribe area felt to you, Jeff, 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: have you been hearing any rumblings of fandom on your end? 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, A lot of friends and family have 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: chimed in with big love on the scribe area, miss 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: of the shows and how much of it was shocked 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: that I was employed and they were trying to encourage 26 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: encourage me whatever. But but anyway, I said, Seanna, it's 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: just been such a gift man won And what are 28 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: people particularly liking? What have you heard from people about 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: what resonates so much with these characters? Hey, my two cents, 30 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: I want to hear from men and tear um. From 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: the very first reading, I felt kind of audience e 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: of this is a really fun conception, something about this 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia. 34 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: I think Anna took issue with you using the word 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: old just now, by the way, sorry sorry I was 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: the only old one. Sorry veteran let's say veteran um. 37 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: It just felt like it really worked off the page, 38 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: and oh, this is gonna be so fun to be 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: able to do. And then when I heard it was 40 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: with Anna da Vere, who I had been a fan 41 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: of for years and years and years, and then that 42 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: it was my boyhood buddy, Terry Kenney. I was like, 43 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. I got 44 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: to gush to people too of did you know, because 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: he usually was friends or family have known me for 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: fifty years? Did you know that this is Terry and 47 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: my pretty much first camera work ever in our decades. 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: I was actually going to bring that up, which I 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: found to be a stunning discovery. Terry, walk me through this. 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: How is it possible you've never shared the screen with 51 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: your old buddy? I don't know. I mean our friends 52 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: making movies. You think they'd put us both in there 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: like Gary, you know, put put me in a small role. 54 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: But there where was Jeff? Not nowhere to be found. 55 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: I did small bit of trivia direct Jeff in my 56 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: first feature. I did a feature and Jeff had a 57 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: really nice role in it. But that's about it. And 58 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: I would love for those who don't know your storied 59 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: history as co founders of Steppenwolf, Terry, tell me when 60 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: you first met Jeff and how that relationship grew into 61 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: this venerable institution in Chicago. I was at Illinois State 62 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: University and Jeff came in in an orientation and he 63 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: had really messed up hair and dirty glasses and a 64 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: flannel shirt. I just thought, I like this guy. I 65 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: just I just saw him. I was in class, was 66 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: supposed to be paying attention, but I just zoned in 67 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: on him as a friend. And it was turned out 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: to be true, because he he showed up the following 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: year and maybe the first day we just connected and 70 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: he came over to our house and I just think 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: he never left. We were together the rest of college, 72 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: you know, just hanging out. That's how I got to 73 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: know Gary through him. And this is Gary Sinise for 74 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: those who are wondering who Gary is here? Oh yes, 75 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: Gary Sinise. After my sophomore year in Jeff's freshman he said, 76 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: would you like to come live in my parents basement 77 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: and then do Rosenkrats and Gilling sn or dead. I said, yeah, sure, 78 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: and so we we did that. We did it in 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: a Unitarian church and that was our first step in 80 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: wolf play. It was two years before we started the 81 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: theater with our college friends. I love that. That is 82 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: so inspiring. And speaking of theater, Anna herself a staple 83 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: of theater. What were you doing at the time these 84 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: fellows were doing their college antics in the basement, etcetera. 85 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: First of all, I just have to say that I 86 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: didn't know the story about those college antics until being 87 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: with these two gentlemen in in hair and makeup. And 88 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: I tell it all the time because I'm still a teacher. 89 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: I teach at your university, and I just say, you know, 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: just like give them a basement and have it opened. 91 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: Isn't that also the case y'all? That it was like 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: you could just go into the theater all day or night, 93 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: just leave the door open, and something's gonna happen. Because 94 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: they made Stepan will End, they made remarkable careers, like 95 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: the whole group of them. So I do tell that 96 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: story all the time myself. I don't know what year 97 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: was that, three four, five six, Well, I was at 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco studying, and uh, 99 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: actually they did give me the keys. I have to say, 100 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: the friends of a CT, who were these sort of 101 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: you know, women wearing Papa galos and khaki skirts and 102 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: doing all good things for the theater and probably raising money, 103 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: they did give me the keys to their office because 104 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have a typewriter, and I could 105 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: go in there and use the typewriter until they arrived 106 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: at ten o'clock in the morning. So I did have 107 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: a version of that which allowed me to write my 108 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: first play at a CT early in the morning with 109 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: those keys. I love that. All we need is a basement, right, Okay, 110 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: you just need keys somewhere. Jeff, I'd love to talk 111 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: to you about your visit to New York Magazine in 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: preparation to play this part. And Jessica Pressler, of course, 113 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: the amazing journalist who wrote the piece that inspired the show. 114 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: She gave an interview recently where she talked about your visit, 115 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: and she said this quote. When Jeff arrives, Mark Jacobson, 116 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: who is a legend, looks at him and says, the 117 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: great thing about being a journalist is that you aren't 118 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: impressed by anybody. Unfortunately, Jeff didn't seem to be offended 119 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: that he wasn't the center of attention. I love this 120 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: because I've been a journalist for twenty years. There's something 121 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: so wonderful about having to be stone faced about everything 122 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: you see in here throughout your day, because if you're affected, 123 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: you really can't do your job. Properly. I'm wondering what 124 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: did you learn from Mark and also being there that 125 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: day that helped inform your character. Yes, so look at 126 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: here's quick notes that are from January, which must have 127 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: been right around the time that Jessica did me this 128 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: gift of come with your little tape recorder and dada, dada. 129 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: You're paid for what you're right, so you can go 130 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: weeks telling your editors you don't have a story that 131 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: you love at the moment. Like a baseball team, you 132 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: all you might all have different contracts. You have a 133 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: difficult dance of getting people to talk having explained your angle, 134 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: but the story can change on you. You have numerous 135 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,559 Speaker 1: irons in the fire because you don't know which stories 136 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: are gonna pay it out. You get assignments and you 137 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: pitch your own. You get typecasts as a journalist, as 138 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: a writer for good or ill artistically, just as actors 139 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: do based on successes. You sometimes get assigned stuff in 140 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: a colleague's wheelhouse because they're busy and you're not. Usually 141 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: help each other with your roll at ex contacts if 142 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: asked by fellow witer writers like documentary creators, you've fallen 143 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: in love at some early age with nonfiction, with listening 144 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: to other human stories, you learn, sometimes the hard way 145 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes slowly, that listening is much more valuable to 146 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: your task than talking. You love research, detection, and the 147 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: hard part is usually putting that research into the form 148 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: of a story. The rewriting, the back and forth of 149 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: editor notes is relatively an easier process. If you get 150 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: flowers from a subject, you've probably not done your job. 151 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: That is so brilliant. So those were the notes, and 152 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: Terry and Anna, what felt familiar to the two of you? 153 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: About what Jeff shared in terms of how it relates 154 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: to your craft as actors. There's a lot of overlap here, right, 155 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: tell me, Terry, what felt familiar to you? I mean, 156 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: it's a highly competitive thing, and it said the pay scales, 157 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, you don't know what anybody else is making. 158 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: Your status gets uh interrupted by what you haven't done 159 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: for a while. Your type cast to write certain stories. 160 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: If you write about glamorous people, they make you do that, 161 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: and you may have a think piece on something else 162 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: you want to do, but they're not very interested in that. 163 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: What you did last is usually the offers you get next. 164 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: It's similar with acting, and it becomes important if you 165 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: want to change it up, to turn those down if 166 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: you can, and then do something completely different the next time. 167 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: I love that. And you really do have to assert 168 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: yourself to and say I can do more than what 169 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: you think I can. That's what really resonated with me 170 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: and watching the show. It was having to remind your bosses, 171 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: I'm not just one thing, right. And Anna, I know 172 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: you've actually done a fair amount of interviewing in your job, 173 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: in your many capacities as an academic. Tell me what 174 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: you knew about interviewing as an art form, and tell 175 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: me what you learned about this craft from preparing to 176 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: play this character. Well, I actually traveled on the I 177 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: was hired by Newsweek to travel on the Clinton presidential 178 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: campaign and on the Dole campaign in nineties six, and 179 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: so I traveled with the press corps, and uh, I 180 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: got a chance to, you know, meet a lot of 181 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: journalists and just live that life, which is very hard, 182 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: especially following a campaign. You really don't you know in 183 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: that way, it's like acting. I mean you're kind of 184 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: like in captivity to production, right as somebody gave me 185 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: the advice, you know, p and when you can because 186 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: you don't know when you're gonna be able to do 187 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: it again. And I had a very good friend, Elizabeth 188 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: Knew For the Lady Elizabeth Knew for who was a 189 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: war correspondent and she covered Rwanda and Bosnia Kosovo and 190 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: was actually killed in Iraq. Terrible. I'm so sorry. One 191 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: of the things that I felt about Elizabeth when we 192 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: became friends was just okay, so she can sleep anywhere 193 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: and eat anything right, And it's that sort of toughness 194 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: that I thought about in creating my character for this. 195 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: But I would say that for all of us, you know, 196 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: we're after the story to be a part of the 197 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: story somehow. That's what we all have in common with journalists, 198 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: I would say actors in journalists. I love that. So 199 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: story is really at the core of both of these crofts. Yeah, okay, 200 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: please stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors, 201 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: and we're back. I'd love to just start walking through 202 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: some scenes because there's so much to work with and 203 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: each of you have such great insights to share. So 204 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: I'd love to start with episode one and we get 205 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: to see how scribe area relates to authority. You went 206 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: to Rikers and it answered your letter. You went to rikers. 207 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: Yes you went rogue, Good girl, fight the power of woman, 208 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: keep your voices, dond your bones for bread. When you 209 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: catch his hand the stone, he's not gonna catch you. 210 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: Stop pumping your pillages and get over here and help them. 211 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: And that really tells us from episode one, Oh, is 212 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: this why they're inscribe area? Because they don't play nice? 213 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: Do they not like to kind of play the politics 214 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: of nice employee to their bosses? So tell me, Terry, 215 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: how do you think this scene sets us up? Well? 216 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: I think we're being into deduced as people that have 217 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: been banished to the periphery in our own little cubical 218 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: world because a they can't fire us. We all have Pulitzers, 219 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: and secondly, we have no fox left to give. We 220 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: don't answer to anybody, you know, and the suits that 221 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: are coming down and giving us these bullshit assignments that 222 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: we don't want to even do. We don't have to 223 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: respect them. We don't have to respect them to their 224 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: face or behind their backs. So I think that's what 225 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: it sets up is a group of people that, you know, 226 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: this young woman who was a successful writer and maybe 227 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: made a mistake is banished to Scriberia and we are 228 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: immediately attracted to her rogue energy, right. And it's interesting 229 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: because Vivian's character, she's kind of nestled between the generations. 230 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: She's not in full Scriberian mode, but she's not one 231 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: of the new bees. And it's almost like is having 232 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: this middle career crisis. Jeff, how do you think that 233 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: this scene sort of establishes that for us? Yeah, I 234 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: mean we're in an age where long form journalism, and 235 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: in fact all of journalism, is facing such existential threat. 236 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: But just look at long form journalism where to exaggerate 237 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: only slightly, only the Twitter twelve words or whatever the 238 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: whatever it's maximum is, you know, can get anybody's attention. 239 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: And I think I always assume that the three of us, 240 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: in our own way felt such you know, sympathy, love, passion, um, God, 241 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: damn it, it shall not vanish from the face of 242 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: the earth. And there's somebody in their thirties who actually 243 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: gives a shit about it and has talent and wants 244 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: to stay here and not work for Twitter or whatever. Right, 245 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: she's worth fighting for. Right, And we see Vivian railing 246 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: against this idea of clickbait and pushing back on the 247 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: Me to Wall Street story because she's saying, this isn't 248 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: the story we want to tell. And it's so inspiring 249 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: to see her having that interaction with her boss, and 250 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: as uncomfortable as it is in the moment, I think 251 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: that's what gives them the respect for her ultimately. And 252 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: an episode three, speaking of authority, we see the very 253 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: funny scene with Vivian and Anna's characters shopping for underwear 254 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: for Anna, and Maud says, Paul was an intern when 255 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: I was writing cover stories. Do you know what you 256 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: tell Paul? Tell him the sun? And Maud really is 257 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: this wonderful mentor figure for Vivian throughout as the other 258 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: woman in this scenario. And Anna tell me, how are 259 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: you playing that scene with Vivian? And and first of all, 260 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: how much fun were those moments? Well, I don't know 261 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: how much fun that was. I think our call that 262 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: day was something like three am, because you know, they 263 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: had to shut down Burgdorfs, had to get to Burgdorfs, 264 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: had to very expense if you can imagine, and get 265 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: it done before you know, whatever time that the people 266 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: come to Burgdorf survivor six hundred dollar purses or hundred 267 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: prants or whatever, so there was that. You know. Um, 268 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: I think that somebody like Maud, I mean, let's face it, 269 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: she probably really had to fight her way into this 270 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: business from the very beginning. I think about somebody who 271 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: I met on that campaign trail that I told you about, 272 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: the late gent Eiffel, right, who was at the New 273 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: York Times, and then you know, on TV and stuff 274 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: like that, and you know, let's face it, you know, 275 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: we are the people who are not in hair and makeup. 276 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: We're not the glam journalists on television. All three of 277 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: us were the people who had to fight to get 278 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: the story. And you know, I think those type of 279 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: journalists don't like authority anyway, because part of journalism is 280 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: to question authority and to question power. I really not 281 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: to go for power, so you bring that into everything, 282 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: and you know, I just want her to know that 283 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: this guy is just like a fly that you've got 284 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: to learn how to swat him away stand up for yourself. 285 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: And it's hard too, because I think, especially a character 286 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: like Vivian who's a woman, we are raised to respect authority. 287 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: We are raised to not speak too much, we are 288 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: raised to oh that's my assignment okay, thank you. And 289 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: it's just as a woman who's been in this business, 290 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: it's so fun to see her say no, no, no, 291 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: this is the story that is worth my time. And 292 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: that's what I think is such a great takeaway from Vivian. 293 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: And I know we've all been in that situation where 294 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: we have to fight just telling someone, trust me, this 295 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: is worth telling. And I'm sure as actors too, you've 296 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: had specially Terry if you've made a movie, anyone who's 297 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: had to sell a project, and it's all your plays. 298 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: It's a lot of convincing, right, I mean, just showing 299 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: up for an audition, you have to look like you're 300 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: having a good time, but what you're really there too 301 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: is to embody convincing. For me, I hate auditioning. I 302 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: don't know about these two gentlemen. But it's enduring the thing. 303 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: It's endurance death, yes, aproposal that the actor uh Emmett Walsh. 304 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: I was on my first job as an actor and 305 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: very young. It was a mini series and I was 306 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: playing the main person because I just got it was 307 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: like the lotto, and he came up to me and 308 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: we were going through, you know, all of the pre production. 309 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: He goes, what are you playing kids? And I said, oh, 310 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm playing this guy, you know. And he goes, oh, 311 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: you're the guy, and he goes, did you have to audition? 312 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I did audition. He goes, that's 313 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: what I called dancing on the head of a pin. 314 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: I always thought of it that way. Afterwards. It's such 315 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: a delicate thing to maintain and not get discouraged and 316 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: keep wanting to show up. You have a hard job, 317 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: so just know that we acknowledge that. Well, it's not 318 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: hard though, when you're when you get the job right, 319 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: Jeff writing, Yeah, yeah, we had nothing but fun. I 320 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: think it shows. I mean I look at it, and 321 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: usually I can't look at anything where my body shows up, 322 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: But in this case, I just remembered the fun of 323 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: the day so much. And when we crack up on camera, 324 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: we were cracking up, you know. We we cracked each 325 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: other up a lot, and that was rare and and fun. 326 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,239 Speaker 1: So it wasn't it like work? Oh yeah, that was 327 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: that is a rarer, I mean somewhat rare. And they look, look, 328 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: we're grateful for all sorts of work we've gotten to do, 329 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: and you love it and it is your fuel, but 330 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: this one is really kind of rare in like that 331 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: was all fun, right. So, something that's come up online 332 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: among fans of inventing Anna is this idea of Vivian's 333 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: colleagues being so supportive of her in environments where we're 334 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: so used to people being at each other's throats and 335 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: being very competitive, And there's a great moment where she 336 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: comes back to the office and you really see them 337 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: kind of surrounding her with this you know, virtual hug 338 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: where they really feel protective of her. What Dalovan Lamb 339 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: gave an interview about you. America Investigative is doing a 340 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: show about bad journalism, and one of the subjects is 341 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: you maybe I'm fine, Hey, it's okay, fine, I um, 342 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: I am fine. You want to see the promo? Get 343 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: it over with. Is it a generational thing for maybe 344 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: the older veteran folks to feel more supportive and protective 345 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: of the younger folks or is this something that you 346 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: feel sort of baked into this environment. What are your thoughts, Terry, 347 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: I would say it's baked into the environment. I don't 348 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: think it's anything generational. What's generational is that we don't 349 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: have to be political about what we like and what 350 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: we don't like, and we like her. We like that 351 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: she's banished. We like that she's found mout. We like 352 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: that she's passionate, driven, that she's got a story she 353 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: wants to tell. She's being told absolutely not, you're not 354 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: doing it. Move over to the other story. And she's saying, 355 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that. That's our kind of person. 356 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: We love. She's banished, right, I mean, so there's already 357 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: there's something about us that's not normal, right, I mean, 358 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: we were banished, and I think we protect her because 359 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: she needs protecting. We know, Paul, and we swooped down 360 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: as the you know, the larger eagles or whatever and 361 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: fend off predators. Besides, we do have generational old school values. 362 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: And so there's this weird you know, like, my character 363 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: is a complete misogynist, you know, really, is that how 364 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: you read her? Really? Oh? He's yes, that's how the 365 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: other Scriberians read him to. He's constantly talking about how 366 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: she's pregnant and what are we going to do about that? 367 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: You know, the baby's gonna come shoot it out of 368 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: her ruchie or whatever. He says. He's protective for that 369 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: reason too, because you know, he doesn't think she can 370 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: do both things at once or something. He's just had 371 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: no exposure. He's just been in foreign lands around gun 372 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: fire all his life. And in that same episode, um Anna, 373 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: you have the fantastic line where you say, we didn't 374 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: want to inscribe area, but you're here and you're not 375 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: a revolting millennial. I have to imagine that people specifically 376 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: thirty five and older, forty and older. There isn't anyone 377 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: who's been in a workplace who hasn't had to adjust 378 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: with a new generation coming in, right, right, right, First 379 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: of all, I just loved the way what Terry just said. 380 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: We love that she's banished. That's number one. Number two, 381 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: she does not completely disrespect us, no right, and so 382 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: I think you know, our job thinking about the way 383 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: Terry said that is to make Criberia the best part 384 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: of the room, to make it cool. And she's a 385 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: good person to have a long for that. She has 386 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: all the right criteria. It's a form of rebellion. Right 387 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: to love that which is banished and create a space 388 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: of love in that and care in there, you know, 389 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: which is the antithesis of what Paul does. Don't go 390 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: anywhere there's more behind the scenes of inventing Anna right 391 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: after this. Okay, ready to hear more. You know what's 392 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: so interesting though, These banished individuals are really what gives 393 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: these magazines their cachet and credibility. So it's sad in 394 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: a sense that these people would ever feel banished when 395 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: they are really at the heart of these organizations. Does 396 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: that feel familiar to you in in terms of theater 397 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: and the work that you've done. Oh my god. A 398 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: playwright that Terry and I grew up with, Lanford Wilson, 399 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: may he rest in beautiful theater piece. But he has 400 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: one of one of his striking plays called Balman Gilead, 401 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: and it's a collection of people he called hustas, transvestite, 402 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: small town crooks, most people not able to rub two 403 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: nickels together, all moving in and out of an all 404 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: night diner. And he gave one phrase describing the whole 405 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: milieu is going These are losers who refuse to lose. 406 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: And when Terry and I think of the things that 407 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: we have been drawn to for years, and it could 408 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: be John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, it could be 409 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: bomb and Gilliad, it could be mice and men. It 410 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: could be all sorts of all sorts, of different kinds 411 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: of expression. A commonality are three legged dogs. The human 412 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: condition of while you are, you are endangered, um and 413 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: yet you still are finding some way to survive, you know. 414 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: And I think we've always had great empathy for that, right, 415 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: And it's just a it's a matter of we've always 416 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: just been attracted to the stories of the of the peripheral. 417 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: Laurie Metcalfalan said that we tell the story of the 418 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: person that you crossed the street to avoid one way 419 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: or another. We've been infected with that. And I think 420 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: we found a soulmate in Anna that we understood this 421 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: being on the far end, away from everything somebody else 422 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: might have been offended by, as a kind of a 423 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: safe zone, a safe zone to do whatever we want 424 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: whenever we want it, and to show up whenever we want. 425 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: You know, Anna, did you have something to add? I 426 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: love that idea of the people who refuse to lose. 427 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: And I'm very all my workers about the disenfranchise. And 428 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: I like to look at the world upside down of 429 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: a dramatist. I like catastrophe. I think that most people 430 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: walking around are performing and don't know it, and so 431 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm very interested in the unperformed, like the person who 432 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: refuses to perform the bourgeois of the middle class. And 433 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm attracted to suffering not for suffering sake, but I 434 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: think that sometimes people who really have a drama or 435 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: a crisis in their own life have something very beautiful 436 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: to share. So I always want to be around to 437 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: be able to hear that. People who would be screaming 438 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: something from the mountaintop, whatever it is, I just want 439 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: to be passing by when that happens, because so much 440 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: of the rest of it is about being obedient. On 441 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: that note, the perfect segue to what I wanted to 442 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: talk about next, which is how scarb Area feels about 443 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: Anna delb And we see their feelings about her start 444 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: with kind of like oh whatever, this cookie party girl, 445 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: and you almost see them getting caught up and supporting 446 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: her in a sense and liking her, Yeah, sticking it 447 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: to the man sort of antics. Kind of stole a 448 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: fucking jet. Listen, Anna never paid no card, no wire 449 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: or nothing. She actually stole a plane. Latest pressing charges 450 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: and working with the d A. They're saying she scamming. 451 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: How do you steal a plane. I can't scam an 452 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: extra legum seat from Celta, but this kid is scamming 453 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: a private jet to Omaha. Kudos, Jeff, Tell me how 454 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: you felt about that. There's an aspect of this story. 455 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: Part of it is arguably an indictment of, Oh my god, 456 00:27:53,880 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: the environment we've created where someone is just gonna fake it, 457 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: fake it, fake it, and be all about appearance, and 458 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: be all about a roll of one hundred dollar bills 459 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: and be all about what am I wearing and what 460 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: purse do I have? And what occasion am I showing 461 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: up to and how many selfies get on Instagram and 462 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: that edit. And at the same time there was this 463 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: undeniable scale had a very interesting plan. She speaks, how 464 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: many languages, she does, what and what she convinced how 465 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: many thirty, forty, fifty, sixty and seventy year olds deep 466 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: into their own niche of profession, whether it's in art collecting, 467 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: yacht collecting, real estate, private wealth management, d D D 468 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: d D banks that this was a good idea. And 469 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: you go, wait a competitor to Soho House based on 470 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: this and based on that and based on it, that's 471 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: a good business plan. So in a sense Scarberius, the 472 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: sort of a kinship with her. Yeah, there's something that 473 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's something about it. There's a duality to Anna, 474 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: and it's exemplified in uh in the final episode in 475 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: the trial stuff where Todd says, look, I know there's 476 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra fans here. You do realize that he staged 477 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: faintings and ambulance is showing up and this and that 478 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: to create the mystique of his genius and terry. Do 479 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: you think that your characters were rooting for Anna to 480 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: be found innocent, the idea that someone like her could 481 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: get away with this. It's almost like they were waiting 482 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: to hear the score of their favorite sports team as 483 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: those slacks were coming through. Guilty, Hotel guilty, w Hotel guilty, 484 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: Dan Hotel guilty. Well that's them, and they were really 485 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: let down by the results. Well, they were hoping against hope. 486 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: You know, the more you learn about someone, the more 487 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: you know. And they got into her childhood, they knew, 488 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: they knew that there were scars that created the person, 489 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: but they also knew, you know, the patriarchy are out 490 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: there with other people's money all the time. It's kind 491 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: of easy for them. It wasn't at all easy for her. 492 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: So yes, my character personally was definitely rooting for her 493 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: to get off because she was an anarchist and her 494 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: eccentricity only made money people trust her more. How brilliant 495 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, everyone still wants to know. They can watch 496 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: the entire thing and then they go, no, wait, how 497 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: did she have all those hundred dollar bills? I mean, 498 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: it's explained, but it's kind of hard to absorb absolutely 499 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: exactly how she convinced people that she had the money. 500 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: But tipping is a very good way to make people 501 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: think you have a lot of money. I'd love to 502 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: talk about a scene that Jeff and Anna Klumsky have 503 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: in the bathroom, seeing how conflicted Vivian is about betraying 504 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: her scribe area friends for the better Office landed off 505 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: for me in office next to Paul's a girl movie, 506 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: a scrape area. That's the goal, Vivian, it was mine 507 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: the white dress, animar h took it out of my closet. 508 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: Lou yep and Jeff, In terms of the prep that 509 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: you did with Anna Klumsky, it sounds like you really 510 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: worked that scene a lot. What what kind of conversations 511 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: did you have with her about that scene. I know 512 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: was impressed with all freelance project work that you throw 513 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: yourself into. It has this very often inevitable depression at 514 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: the end of it. I think in the scene she 515 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: says something like, what do I do now? Sort of 516 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: that high of the story had dissipated. She's had her baby, 517 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: these two things that she was giving to really at 518 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, and it's lovely. It's got lovely 519 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: little levels and not that many words. I think writing wise, 520 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: you know that that she says in a few different ways. 521 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: I promised her fame I delivered to a great extent, 522 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: and I knew that one real possibility was that fame 523 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: is gonna land you in jail and lead me to 524 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: an office and to a bigger salary and to everything 525 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: I want. But in the age of influencer, fame is money. 526 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: I think she's struggling with that equation. You know, something 527 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: just came to me, And this is actually perfect for 528 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: my final question, which I'd love for Anna to answer. 529 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: This idea of an influencer. I think this term has 530 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: become so negative, right. I think there is such a 531 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: thing as positive influence, and what we see Vivian fighting 532 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: for throughout the show is the preservation of grammar and 533 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: stories and the written word. So if we see her 534 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: as almost like an influencer in her own right, Anna, 535 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: what do you think we can do as a culture 536 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: to make sure that we preserve storytelling, we preserve the 537 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: written word. That yes, Instagram can exist and TikTok can exist, 538 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: but someone like you can still write your plays and 539 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: make sure they get made and that people see this 540 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: and appreciate this EON's old art form that is so important. Well, 541 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: I think that Shonda Rhymes is one of the world's 542 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: most influential storytellers, and I think that the storytelling speaks 543 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: for itself in this project, And I think Shonda's history 544 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: of storytelling and how her stories have affected people and 545 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: have affected our culture speaks for itself. It's Shonda and 546 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: her ability to bring around her great storytellers is in 547 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: and of itself something that's out there that I think, 548 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: whether people are completely aware of it or not, they 549 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: understand what it means to be attracted to a story. 550 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: You know, going from a friend of mine who was 551 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: a former Melissa had a former U S attorney who 552 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: was just addicted to this to Janelle, who works in 553 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: my doctor's office, who I called to speak to my doctor, said, 554 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: everybody's watching it. You know that that this story has 555 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: that kind of appeal that people are addicted to a 556 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: great story. And you couldn't have told this story in 557 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: whatever number of characters on Twitter. So I think that 558 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: that has an influence right there. It is so beautifully, 559 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: said Anna, And such a wonderful way to wrap this 560 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: up and really put a nice bow on it. And Terry, 561 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: did you have anything to add Well? The only thing 562 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: I was thinking about you because I've been thinking about 563 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: it ever since somebody one of one of us said 564 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: Greek chorus. And I've always loved Greek choruses. And I 565 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: think we were given the exposition of this story. We 566 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: are the audience in a way, learning things and sending 567 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: out that information. I can tell you as an actor 568 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: that usually exposition is presented in an awkward, clumsy way, 569 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: and especially on television, it's difficult. It's hard to remember 570 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: because you're not invested in it's just information that has 571 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: to get out there. I think Shanda did that really well. 572 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: And I think back to what the origins of Greek 573 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: chorus was and it was the dithorems, right, that were 574 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: these hymns that big masses of people did, and it 575 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: was all for Diane Issus at the time. And then 576 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: Thespis came in and walked out and joined the play 577 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: from the chorus, and that became tragedy, you know, So 578 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: so now Greek choruses were involved with tragedy. I think 579 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of both of those things in this story. 580 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: You know, all of her Folly and Oliver Champagne and 581 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: all this stuff, and then all of this tragedy and 582 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: we were there for all of it. That the evolution 583 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: of our characters and the chorus part of it, I 584 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: think had much to do with that. And I want 585 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: to just add one little tiny thing, which I think 586 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: is either Shanda's work, Linda's work, Betsy Bear's work, Somebody's work, 587 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: to give exposition to the three of us who have 588 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: been around so long. I felt of us like jazz 589 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: musicians really because of the opportunity for me to work 590 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: with people of this this skilled is that the exposition 591 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: felt less like trying to sing the song we all know, right, 592 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: the exposition song, and then and then and then. And 593 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: that's why that's why is spinning it off of these 594 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: two felt like being what I would imagine it would 595 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: be like to be in a jam session. And so 596 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful thing about this medium, this visual media, 597 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: that there's the story and then there are all of 598 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: these other people who come in to make it work 599 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: a certain way. I love that well. I want to 600 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: thank all of you for being here and letting us 601 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: fan out over scribe area, because I have to say, 602 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: I can see these kids get in their own show someday. 603 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: So let's let's keep that talk alive. I'm ready. I'm ready. 604 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that would be a gift. There's a yes, 605 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: there's a there's a line in the Arthur Miller play 606 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: The Price where Solomon, you know, he says, oh, please 607 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: just come back another time, and Solomon goes, if I 608 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: should live? That's how I feel. Well. May we all 609 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: live and thrive and stay well. And again, thank you 610 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: all for your time. I know you're very busy, so 611 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. Thank you, Bye bye, nice to 612 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: be together. Thank you, Stacy, thank you so much for listening. 613 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: Next week, we hear from Emmy winning costume designer Lynn 614 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: Powlow about how she recreated Anna Delvie's signature looks for television. 615 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Anna was a chameleon, and she used every tool she 616 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: could to become whatever was acceptable, whoever was acceptable in 617 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: a given situation. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, Share 618 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. All 619 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging Shonda 620 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. We 621 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna the 622 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, 623 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is 624 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: Nicholas Harder and I'm your host Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing 625 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland Audio 626 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 627 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 628 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.