WEBVTT - Ahmet Zappa 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.840 My guest today is Amit Zappa, co trustee of the 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.960 Zappa Trust. I'm it great to happen. I'm so happy 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:23.280 I led your show. Happy to be here, you know, 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:29.320 thank you. Okay, what is the Zappa Trust? Uh, it's 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.879 it's the name that I guess. Um, our family business 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:41.800 fell under the mega Ubert description of all things Frank Zappa. Um, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.560 you know, my my mother passed away a couple of 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.040 years ago, and you know, my dad passed away, you know, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.280 uh over twenty some nine years ago, and everything was 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.240 put into a trust. And I didn't know much about 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.800 it until my mother passed away. And and you know, 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:04.440 I I got a real education pretty fast on on 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.840 what happens when you know, when your parents pat when 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.480 you become an orphan, what happens when your parents pass? 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.200 And you know, I had to figure out how do 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.320 you deal with the I R s? And how do 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:24.840 you put a price tag on intangibleles? How do you 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:30.800 um try to take something that wasn't to be totally honest, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:35.920 very organized, and um you know, turn it into a 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:41.760 successful business, uh for everyone in my family. Uh So 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:48.200 I mean really, so your father died around that time 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.240 or just before he licensed all his music went to 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.240 write go was that a licensing deal? Do you still 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:59.360 own all his music? No? Uh, my dad instructed my mother. Yeah, 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.520 this is what I want to too. Right. Uh, well, 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.840 I don't know if it's instructed. They just had lots 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:10.120 of conversations my my my mother and father, you know, 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:17.080 business partners. My mom was a real pioneer. Um. And 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.200 you know, the Zappa business wouldn't exist if it wasn't 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:26.720 for h the two of them being real scrappy, you know, 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:31.680 because Frank financed everything. Um, you know, he got on 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.560 the road. The money that he would make, he would 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.600 put right back into projects. He pay all the musicians 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:42.200 and uh you know I think, yeah, I don't know 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:47.320 if if people know this, but prior to the Reiko question, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.560 and I'll tell you what happened, uh, you know with 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.080 that deal. But you know, my mother was somebody that 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:59.040 was like, well, she gets these bills and she sees that, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.240 you know, my out of staying at some hotels. And 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.400 I want to say, he was probably with somebody that 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.560 must have pissed my mother off, right, And um, you 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:15.240 know my dad apparently was a real coxsmith. You know, 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.760 he's really really laying it down with his man hammer. 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.960 So she finds out that, you know, he's with some 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:27.519 some chick, and think about this, there's four kids. She's 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.560 at home, you know, running the business, and she gets in, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:38.040 Well she's piste off, but she uh says, whatever he 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:45.760 has spent on this whore, right, um, on this lady, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.200 on this fan, on this groupie, or you know, I 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:55.040 don't know this person's name, there's probably bajillions on them. Uh. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.080 My mother's like, I'm going to start a new business. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.880 I'm going to invest the same amount of money that 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:05.360 he's spending on ladies on something called a mail order business. Right. 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:10.000 And she had collected um uh people that were going 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.360 to the concerts they would they would sign up and 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.320 what year was just you know this is this is 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:21.040 uh probably late seventies or eighties. And you know that 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.000 it was through her ingenuity, Uh that really the biggest 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.359 financial successes that my father ever had were directly because 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.839 of her. You know, she put something out that no 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:39.000 one had ever really uh thought of before, something called 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.480 a buck set. Right. So I want to say that 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.720 my my mother and father actually um you know, my 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.920 father gets the credit, but it's really my mother was like, well, 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.280 let's take all this vinyl that we have, old vinyl, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.960 and bundle it and put it into a box and 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.159 add some other you know, bells and whistles to it, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.559 and we put something I'll call the old Masters and 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.280 in a hundred dollar price tag. You know, this is 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.480 this is back in the day when they're still record stores. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:12.120 You know. She she put together her own distribution deals 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:17.239 and and that really was probably the first time, uh 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:22.080 frank the family made millions of dollars. Really, yeah, Okay, 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.600 you brought up a lot of things. You instantly said 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.279 your father was not faithful to your mother. Did that 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.640 cause stress in their relationship? You know, I learned so 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.839 much of this, Um. You know that some of these 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:40.720 details just way later in life. Um, I remember arguments 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:48.039 and things. But uh, you know, I just I just 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.680 assumed it was just you know, your parents fighting, right, 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.880 and because they didn't really explain it to me. Um, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.120 who knows, Maybe it was just them fighting, But I'm 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.760 I'm certain that my mother and father had and understanding. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:05.240 I mean, it was it was it was, um, a 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.760 very interesting way to grow up. I I I mean 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.080 I was unaware of any of the other romances. And 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.880 my father would have had UM. I know he loved 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.520 our you know, our mother, UM because you know that. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.200 I mean they stayed together through through all of it, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:32.919 thick and thin. So UM, it's it's really right around 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.159 my when when my mother was probably only had a 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.200 few months left. Uh, I got up the courage to 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:45.840 just ask questions, yeah, to to you know, things that 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.039 I don't know if I ever needed the answers for. 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.279 But then once you kind of took the lid off, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.640 and then the way that she answered certain questions, I 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.200 was shocked. I mean it's you know, I don't know, um, 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.400 if you are the kind of person and that if 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.560 your parents ever talked about hooking up with people like I, 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:09.360 I don't You're like, I don't want to know. Um. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.480 And but she was pretty forthcoming with like, you know, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:21.000 the the their shared experiences there. You know, it's it 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.280 was the seventies and they lived it up. And I 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.800 had no freaking idea if you would have told me, uh, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.960 you know, I think if someone would have asked me, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.840 do your parents ever have like three ways or do 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.400 anything like that? I would be like, fuck, no, and 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.280 I would have been dead wrong. Wow, let me just say, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.480 Let me just say that there's you know, you you 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.119 discover a lot of things when you have to organize, um, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.080 a household. Because my mother was also someone who who 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:56.080 never threw anything away, and every single thing under the 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:02.400 sun and moon was um preserved or uh documented in 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:07.320 some capacity. So fuck bro Okay, this is a very 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.520 interesting thing because your father was a legendary musician with 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.960 a long career until he was unfortunately cut down with cancer. 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.880 But when you when your mother died, she was still 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.680 living up at the top of Laurel Canyon. Right, Yeah, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:29.360 that's right. So did you throw anything out? No, she 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:33.640 died and all the stuff was in the house. Oh yeah, 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.800 I mean it was when I have you ever seen 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:40.000 the documentary Grey Gardens? No, you should check it out. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.920 When I say my mother didn't throw anything away, there 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:50.960 might be newspapers that are just all stacked in one 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.840 side that was a story my mother kept or thought 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.480 she was going to read later on. And um, so 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.720 she irrelevant to your father the famous she was a hoarder. Yeah, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.200 she's she was, But I do I kind of think 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.400 that there's a method to her madness because she understood 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.760 what was in all the piles. You know, I'm the 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.719 same way. I'm a hoarder. I just had to move 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.400 and I had to throw stuff out. That's why I'm 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.960 interested in your story. Well, yeah, there was lots. There 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:21.520 was definitely lots of things to to get rid of. Um. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.840 But I mean things like stack of newspapers that meant 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.240 nothing too, but anything attached your father. Did you throw 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.560 any of that out? I was in a really uh well, 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.959 my my reality changed the day my mother passed away. 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.120 That's when I learned that I was a co trustee 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.240 of the family business, and that actually comes with really 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.560 huge responsibilities. So she had never discussed that after she 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.600 dies in terms of the business. It never I didn't 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.480 get to have a conversation with her after her death, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.120 no that before, because you got all these talks about 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.440 her wild and wooly life. She hadn't talked about after 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.760 she passed because she was sick about you're gonna have 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.760 you know, you know, give me a co trustee or 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:06.760 what now? I mean the I was already working and 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:12.280 helping her out, um prior to you know, right before 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.800 she even knew she was sick. Um. She was trying 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.120 to well, I have to go back to the recho. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.160 So when my dad passed, my dad was like, you know, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.680 why don't we sell the Masters keep publishing? And he 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:31.240 was like, you just get out of it. You know, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.560 it's like a fucking horrible business, music business. You know, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:41.080 go to Malibu and and you know, I relax, right, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.800 and that my mother, I think took that to heart. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:53.560 UM sold the then Masters to Raycodisc. But you know, 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.520 in the process, you know, many years later, um, there's 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.319 a there's something in the language, uh in the contract. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:06.880 And my my father was really particular about um ah, 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.720 the sonic excellence of his music. And you know, he 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.840 was someone who, uh it was a real futurist and 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.760 he wrote papers about how in the future music I 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:20.319 think he even talks about it in the real Frank's 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.520 Apple book somewhere, um that in the future music was 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.880 going to be delivered telephonically, you know, through through the 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:34.200 internet essentially YouTube clip to where he goes on about this. So, um, 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.800 he put some language in the in in the the 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.360 sale that it couldn't be below a certain bit rate, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.600 right because of compression and you know what have you? 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:50.960 And that that that was still emerging technologies, you know. UM, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:57.320 and so Rycodisc winds up selling to Warners. UM, and 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.280 Warners tries to put out the music digitally and we're well, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.560 you actually don't have those rights. And that became a 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.360 big lawsuit. And wait, wait, wait, if they sold it 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.280 to Warner, why couldn't they put out the music because 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.240 it didn't qualify to the language in the contract. There 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.240 was nothing about digital streaming or you know, so they 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.000 didn't have the right to do that. They didn't have 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.719 their rights. And part of um and this is this 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.319 is this is my understanding of it. I'm sure there 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.000 might be other people that you know, might have you know, 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:35.920 deeper richer information, meaning attorneys that you know, going through 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.720 the contracts, but I think just generally what I'm talking 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:44.240 about is pretty accurate. UM. So, long story short, they 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.679 didn't have the rights. Warners didn't have the rights. And 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:52.800 I think that in the sale um Ryko I think 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.000 presented to Warners that they could. So it was a 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.160 whole kerfuffle and and we were kind of in the 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.800 middle of it. And our whole thing was like, why 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.440 don't we partner and you know, figure this out and 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:09.240 do it together, and the heads of business affairs would 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.000 change so frequently in the business, UM that we were 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:18.360 kind of in this limbo land. And um, you know, 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:23.960 really before my mother's passing at one of her last birthdays, UM, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:28.080 the family was able to actually get all the music back. Okay, 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.400 so at this point in time, all of those records 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.560 that were licensed to righto you now, oh uh, we 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:40.000 made a new UM partnership with Universal UM. And that's 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.000 kind of what I was, what I was brought in 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.400 I supposed to do. Before my mother passed. You know, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.640 we had a big family sit down and my mother 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.760 explained to you know, the family that um, you know, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.559 I you know, she first talk to me personally. It 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.560 was like, I can't fight for my life and fight 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.040 for this business and I need help and she needed 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:07.760 financial help, and UM, you know it's it's it's of 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.600 my opinion. You know. I did things I think differently 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:15.280 than my brother and sisters, and in that I left 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.280 at an early age the house. I went out on 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.360 my own. I didn't live off of the family business, 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.960 you know. Uh. So you know, I just I was 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.240 starting my own production company and just so I've worked 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.520 in other businesses and made my own money. So when 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.200 my mother needs help, needed help, I could provide financial 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.640 help or business help and um, and I was able 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.560 to really bail her out. Okay, before we get there, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.200 is your deal with Universal? Is that a licensing deal 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:52.000 or do they own it? Um? It's uh, it's something 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.760 that I I don't think I can get into the 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.840 details of because it's it's still an ongoing, really great, 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.640 really really great relationship that I have with Okay, so 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.920 let's go back to the very beginning, because you've talked 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.400 about your life. When do you realize your father is 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:14.880 Frank's appa. I mean, my parents introduced themselves to us 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.040 as Frank and Gale and never called a mom and dad. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.160 So he was he was Frank. Yeah, but I meant 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.000 really in terms of his fame, notoriety, place in the culture. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.680 I didn't ever think about it, you know. Um, I 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.240 know that sounds like maybe a cop out answer, but 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.920 you know, if my friends at school and preschool, like 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.120 one could be a lawyer, one could be an actor, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.920 one could be a bus driver or whatever it was 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:46.720 the profession you know they were. My friend's parents were 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.440 equally as famous for just being a parent. You know 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.480 what I mean it had nothing to do with Uh. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.360 I think what you're scratching at, like, oh, it should 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.080 be some unbelievable miracle that my dad is, you know 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.280 for Zapple. Like, my dad was just someone who uh 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.240 always championed my creativity, let me be a fly on 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:12.240 the wall in his business meetings. UM was really interested in, 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:18.920 uh what our interests were, because I think we, as 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:25.280 his children, influenced UM him in many different ways. You know. 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.480 I mean I assume this because as a father myself, 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.760 I see naturally what my kids are into and it 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.600 informs me and I have opinions about it, you know. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:44.360 So UM, I guess I I reflect back on, uh 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.280 those times with my with my dad as remarkable because 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.760 my really really my mother and father are were so 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:58.120 unique because they um I think made decisions to not 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.800 be like their own parents, and UM gave us the 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:10.960 freedom to develop and choose our spiritual spirituality. UM so 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.600 as parents, UH and all of us being different in 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.040 in our house, Like my brother was super interested in 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.920 music and playing guitar, and you know, they had that 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.520 kind of relationship and UH, and I think with my 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.080 mother and father had equal interest and just how they 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.679 were doing things. You know, How how were they able 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.359 to pay for something? How when you conceive of a 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.600 creative idea, how do you see it from the beginning, middle, 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.240 and end? How do you complete something? You know? Um? 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.280 And they really instilled instill the fearlessness in me too, 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:54.120 just you know, deeply believe that anything is possible. And 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:02.200 you know, I mean it served me well. Okay, So, uh, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.720 Frank was working a lot. Did you have any of 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.680 the luxuries of having a famous patient of a parent, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:14.840 going on vacation, eating and fine restaurants any of that? Uh? Yeah, 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.560 I mean, but again, I feel like all my my 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.600 answers are boring, kind of few and far between. Uh, 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.480 because my my dad would either be on the road 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.760 or he was just a homebody because the studios at 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.399 the house. Um. And he was such a night owl 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:37.200 that I missed a lot of things. You know, people 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:42.840 would he would send out for food. Um. The fine 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:47.439 dining experiences happened in places like Le Cirque, where you know, 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.200 I'm sure we embarrassed him. I remember, I remember when 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.800 one moment when he was really sick and he was 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.800 working on the Yellow Shark. I don't know if you 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.960 know that that record with the ensemble Modarren and and 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.080 so we're in Frankfurt and I forgot the name of 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.439 the hotel that were staying at, but it was a 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.400 you know, fancy hotel. And I see him in the distance. 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.359 He's having some meeting and I wanted to say it 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.879 was you know, me, d Weasel and Moon. I don't 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:19.639 think Deva was present, um, you know, but we were 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.639 all there as a family. And I started doing this 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.240 like really bad jazz bo dance to the you know, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:32.040 the jazz Pierre player, right, And I gotta say that, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.960 normally that would make my dad chuckle. But the pressure 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:42.200 that he was under or the feelings he was feeling, um, 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.120 I chalk that up to like, wow, that I really 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.320 ship the bed this hard because you know, like I'm 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:53.280 I'm I'm freaking out doing this weird dance cookie dance, 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.240 and from a cross room, I get like there's like 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.160 a smile for a moment and then this fucking look 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.480 right and he comes over and I've never this is 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.720 like the most corporate fucking thing I ever said to me. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.960 It was like, this hotel is part of a chain 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:17.399 and if you ever want to stay here again, you 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:22.200 should not. You know do that, And I was like, wow, 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.159 that is I wasn't expecting that, you know, right, but 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.479 he'd obviously you know that was here when people got 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:34.320 kicked out of a lot of hotels, he learned a lesson. Well, uh, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.560 that felt very very unusual. Uh, you know, I think 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.040 normally those kinds of things would be celebrated unless you 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.920 were interrupting, I suppose, And maybe maybe I'm an answer 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.720 my own question right now as I'm reminiscing about this. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.320 Unless you were messing with his you know work, right, 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:59.760 the workflow, then that was a severe annoyance. Well how 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.399 often did you go on the road with him? Um, 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.000 half a dozen times? So not that man, it wasn't 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.200 a family thing. We're all going to get on the bus. Well, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.880 I was born in seventy four, so um, I don't 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:18.400 know how many tours that were kind of in between. Um, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.840 I mean, if if memory serves, I remember going to 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:27.520 London a lot, Germany a lot. Um. Yeah, I mean 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.960 we would, we would kind of travel, but my mother 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.480 and father had friends and it was pretty exciting, two 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.880 exciting times. But my dad got sick when I was fifteen, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:43.280 so it really kind of stopped like that. Tour. He 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.359 wasn't feeling good. There was bad situations happening with the 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:53.240 band members, and you know, so it really changed. Uh. Okay, 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.520 you talked about your father being in night all. I 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.560 once heard a story that your father would work his 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.200 way around the clock and that he would work till 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.840 he was done and then he would sleep and then 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.920 whatever time of day it was. Is that true or untrue? Yeah? Time, 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:11.000 there there's no some there's no schedule like that. He 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:16.960 was he would work until he was exhausted. But I 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:23.640 think he was. The work was so fun and he's 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.200 just so prolific. You know. We have thousands and thousands 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.800 and thousands of tapes, so much music in the vault 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:37.800 he recorded everything. Where those tapes today we have them 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.679 safe and secure. I don't know if you know of 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:46.320 a place called Iron Mountain, UM, but they've been really great. Um. 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.080 You know, everything used to be housed in a you know, uh, 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:55.800 pretty decent temperature controlled space UM in our you know, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.760 at at what used to be our family home. Uh. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.280 And then when the business because it was run out 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.360 of the house when we when we had to sell 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.640 the house was actually instructed in the trust really after 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.080 your mother died, you have to sell the house. Yeah. So, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.359 like you know, people just have the I'm sure the 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:19.600 worst opinion about I'm some fucking nightmared, you know, douchebag 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.960 or something, But in my opinion, it's not. OK. Let's 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.240 go back a little bit to the history. You say 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.760 you left home at what age? Um? I moved out 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:35.120 around eighteen? You know what was your thought? I wasn't 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.280 really thinking about it. What did you do when you 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:39.760 were eighteen? Your parents ever talked to you about going 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:43.919 to college? Oh? No, I because of you were because 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.679 of them? Um. I dropped at a school in the 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.920 beginning of eighth grade. I missed more than half a 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.240 year of school each year prior to that. My parents 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:56.600 felt that school was ruining my creativity. So what they 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:02.119 would do instead? Um? Up A tell you know, I 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:06.760 guess I moved out and started making my own money. Um. 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:13.800 They would invest in my creative endeavors, which would be what. Well? Um, 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:19.159 At one point I had this notion, Um, they found 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.359 this guy to help me out. I can't remember his 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.560 first name was Wally, and I'm totally blanking on his 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.199 on his last name, it could have been like Wally, 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:31.280 like Fiser, or something. UM but I was interested in 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:35.840 doing something you know, different with credit cards. So as 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.919 a thirteen year old or twelve year old, UM, I 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.120 was like, well, how come there is no credit card 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:44.320 for for kids? And you know, I want to get 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.080 more benefit because I was looking at the back of 0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:50.600 these um my dad's like cigarettes and you know, there 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:53.879 was like the cigarette points and I was seeing some 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:59.600 of these uh loyalty programs right, and I was like, well, 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:01.159 why can't we do that with credit cards? You know, 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.359 why can't I get more benefits if I want to 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:05.760 go see a concert or go see a movie, you know, 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:10.359 where's my lifestyle card? Why don't you know we create 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:15.600 this kind of like cashless society. And UM, I came 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.000 up with this plan to do to make something called 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:23.159 a report card and to utilize um some of the 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:25.720 it's only really in the last couple of years is 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:29.080 the technology here. But because I had traveled, they credit 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:31.200 cards there had chips, you know, and you can put 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:34.080 so much more information on the chips. So I wanted 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:38.680 to have this smart card that could create a loyalty 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:42.359 program around. UM I guess stuff. I was interested in 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:47.399 entertainment and you maybe put money back into the school system. 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:50.480 So I was calling it the report card. Um. And 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:53.119 you know, I was really interested in in the local 0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:58.640 restaurants and businesses that were around schools because I figured, well, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.280 then kids couldn't all the They also learned to be 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.960 more responsible with their money. The parents were the ones 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:09.359 that could, um, you know, put your allowance on it right, 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:13.600 and you couldn't buy drugs with it, you know what 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:16.280 I mean. It was accepted everywhere. What did you do 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.200 drugs when you were a teenager, I've never I've never 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:22.600 tried any drugs. I've never smoked pot. My wife thought 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:27.000 I was so, I guess boring. She introduced me to tequila, 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:31.439 and now I'm a fucking massive sean, you know, among 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:35.000 other alcoholic beverages. But when you move out, what do 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:36.280 you what do you do for work? What do you 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:41.720 do for income? Well, you know, as an example, um, 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:44.880 just in terms of the the access I think, I don't. 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:49.800 I don't think American Express or Visa or MasterCard. UH 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:52.720 would have taken the phone call from a twelve year old. 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:56.280 But my parents, knowing I wasn't going to school, They're like, 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:58.000 all right, well, let's go to White Plains. Let's go, 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:01.199 you know, fly and see all the heads of the 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.000 credit card companies. And this is when I pitched out, 0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:07.520 which essentially is like loyalty programs for credit cards right 0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:11.879 as a kid, you know. And I would make do 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.280 these presentations and kind of walk in there pretty fearlessly 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:17.040 and say like, hey, this is why I think you 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:22.120 should do it. And that's just an example of how 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:28.040 my parents supported, you know, my business ideas and and um. 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:30.520 And I've just been kind of fortunate in the way 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:35.080 that people would go and see Frank and discuss new 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:38.000 ideas with him, or he would engage with with people 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:42.400 around an idea he had, and and his gravitational pull 0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:47.679 for interesting characters. UM, I feel like I have that 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:52.720 same thing happening in my world to some extent. You know, 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:57.199 I I wind up meeting very interesting individuals, and I, 0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:00.399 you know, connect the dots. You know. I've been involved 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.920 in tons of different businesses. I mean when I when 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:07.960 I left, I guess I was a child actor uh 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:12.920 and made somewhat of a living um uh. And then 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:17.080 I started hosting shows with my brother and um we 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:21.000 played in a band together. And and you know, then 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:23.879 I went off on my own and really wanted to 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:27.480 become a storyteller, and I wound up setting up I 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:31.040 wrote my first book, the UM The Monstrous Memoirs of 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:33.760 a Mighty Make Fairless. I wound up selling that to 0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:36.840 Disney for a million and a half dollars and selling 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:40.040 it around the world for millions of dollars. And UH 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:43.440 set up my production company at Disney, and then started 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:47.400 a really unique kind of production company where I had 0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:49.480 one foot in consumer products and one foot in the 0:28:49.520 --> 0:28:54.120 motion picture group and worked on a lot of interesting 0:28:54.400 --> 0:29:00.360 pieces of technology with imagineering and UM, I really suit 0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:04.600 things that my father or in a lot of cases 0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:08.440 my mother inspired me with stuff that they fantasized about 0:29:08.480 --> 0:29:13.520 that UM stoked the flames of my own imagination. And 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.640 I think because of the access that I had, I 0:29:17.840 --> 0:29:21.000 just learned things from the access I had from being 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:24.320 a fly on the wall with my dad. UH piqued 0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:28.040 my curiosity, and you know, I learned enough, I guess 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.840 to be dangerous by not going to school and not 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:35.120 having my creativity ruined and not going to college. You also, 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.520 I've I've just been able to I've only ever had 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:42.600 jobs in the entertainment industry, and I've i've survived. Okay, 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.360 But you famously hosted a show for a while, right, 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:47.440 how did that come together? What was that? I've hosted 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:53.880 thousands of hours of television, shitty, shitty fucking television, and honestly, 0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.560 it would give me diarrhea to be so nervous about it. 0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:01.400 I was. I think I was mostly known for uh, 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:05.600 controlled chaos. You could give me bullet points and say like, okay, 0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.200 we need we need to somehow. You need to steer 0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:11.239 this crazy ship that's going down in flame. You need 0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:14.320 to land this plane, right, And that's Those are the 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:17.280 kinds of jobs that I would get. But when you 0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.000 say I hosted some show, I don't know which one 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.840 you're talking about, because there's honestly been a tremendous amount 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.800 of serious you were involved in for a number of years, 0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:30.960 which one bro you know, like, uh, you know, for 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:35.200 for the for the people that care at all. You 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:39.440 can see the pilot dog ship that I've been associated with, 0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:43.040 UM And maybe that's a terrible thing to say about 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:46.080 the shows that I was interested because it paid my 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:56.560 bills and I had good times, and I was never 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:02.840 happy doing hosting. UM A lot of those shows, the 0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:07.680 the only the big regret, um, is that I had 0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:10.280 the opportunity. I actually auditioned a couple of times to 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:13.440 be the host of Let's Make a Deal, and that 0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:16.760 was always my dream job. I love that. I love 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.480 that show. Okay, but you think like that would make 0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:22.160 you happy, would have made you happy. I do like 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:25.080 the I love sitting down and talking with people, and 0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.360 I thought that was a pretty interesting format because it's 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:29.960 a bunch of crazy crazy is getting dressed up, and 0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.479 you know, I love the whole Monty of it all 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:34.520 where he put his hand in his pocket and be like, 0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:37.960 all right, you can take hundred bugs here, or you 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:40.120 can find out what's behind door number one or door 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:44.400 number two. Tell them. I could not I could never 0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:46.760 get enough of that show. That was my favorite of 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:53.560 the afternoon game shows. Loved and that that's that's like 0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:57.080 my anything that smells like that or feels like that. 0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.320 I would totally do that kind of a thing. Again. 0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:02.680 I'm very I'm comfortable in that setting. I like doing 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:05.920 talk shows. I like sitting down with you because we're 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:10.400 having a conversation. I feel like there's a real connection. Um. 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:14.400 But I guess the part that was more stressful is 0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:20.720 sticking to a script. Um is just you know, learning 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.960 the lines to deliver that. This sort of business was. 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.600 It was always pretty stressful. So I'm okay. And in 0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:29.720 this window, somewhere along the line, you married Selma Blair, 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:32.720 who was a movie star at the time. How did 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:37.360 that come together? I actually saw her. She was she 0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:39.680 had a boyfriend the time, sitting on some dudes's lap. 0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:44.320 I was at this restaurant called fred Siegel um or 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.320 I forgot the restaurant at fred Siegal. I forgot what. 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.920 I forgot what it's called actually right now. Um, but 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:55.200 I was with my friend Jules, and she walks in 0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:59.960 and I had seen her in um other cool intention 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:04.400 or something, and I was like, you know what, like 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.600 I should marry, Like that's that's someone I should marry. 0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:14.840 Rights totally totally random. Uh. And then a few months later, 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:17.800 a mutual friend I didn't know her at all, but 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:24.720 a but a mutual friend, um actually introduced us and um, 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:29.560 you know that was that was that was crazy that 0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:34.080 I got married. I got married and Princess Leah's backyard, right, 0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:39.480 So Carrie Fisher demanded, Yeah, Carrie demanded, you know, like 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:43.280 you have to get married here and on that particular 0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:47.800 day where she was off meds or I don't know 0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:51.000 what happened to her, but for someone who insisted on 0:33:51.120 --> 0:33:55.160 us getting getting married at her house, she showed up 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:58.440 and was like, who are all these people? And what 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:03.240 is going on? Right? Um? And believe me, it wasn't 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:05.600 a surprise. You. You kind of got to be organized 0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:08.040 if you're gonna, you know, have all that stuff going on. 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:11.000 So that's you know, that was a pretty funny experience. 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:15.560 And uh, when we were looking at her house as 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:20.560 a location, UM, this is so fucking funny to me. 0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:24.080 Hopefully you'll appreciate the story. But we were all in 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:29.839 Carrie's room, my mother Tracy Ullman. This is not mean 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:33.440 name dropping. I'm just trying to set right. So Carrie Selma, 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:38.520 my mother, Tracy um and like you know, Carrie would 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:40.839 have people just hang out in her bedroom. I don't know. 0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:45.440 It's so if you if you were friendly with her, um, 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:49.040 well you know she there's a lot of similarities I 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:53.960 think in um art appreciation with with Carrie and my mother, 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.400 and they were friendly. My my mom and Carrie, you know, 0:34:56.400 --> 0:35:02.319 I knew each other socially. So we're again we're hanging 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:09.480 out in her room and everyone leaves, except we're walking 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:14.680 into her kitchen and I remember seeing I remember seeing 0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:21.080 Tracy's shoes and um, so I was hanging back with 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.200 my mother for for ten seconds. Right. So now it's 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:25.960 just the two of us walking out of the out 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:32.160 of the Carrie's bedroom together, um to walk towards the kitchen, 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:37.560 and I see Tracy's shoes, uh, and it's like she's 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:39.880 trying to plug in a lamp underneath the piano in 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:42.400 the living room, right, And I thought it would just 0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:45.120 be really funny to play the Exorcist, you know, play 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:48.760 two tubular bells while season in there. So I decided 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:54.960 to aggressively play that tune. And then you know, Tracy 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:59.080 and Carrie uh and Selma come out of the kitchen 0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.680 like into the living room. So I'm like, well, who 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:05.560 the funk is now under the piano and like I'm like, well, funk, 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:09.200 I'm that's what an assholic thing for me to do. 0:36:09.800 --> 0:36:13.600 And it was Debbie Reynolds, right, her mom, Carrie's mom 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:16.840 under under the piano, and I'm playing the Exorcist. But 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:21.360 then Carrie was looking at her mom under the piano 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.680 as I'm playing the Exorcist and it was kind of 0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:28.240 like the perfect moment if you've read any of Carrie's autobiography. 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:31.440 So it turned out to be a pretty hysterical moment 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:34.160 for Just to be clear, So what you thought were 0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:37.520 Tracy Ullman shoes were ultimately Debbie Reynolds. Yes, what? I 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:42.319 just what? I I because of the shoes, I just 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:46.600 assumed it was Tracy under the piano and it turned 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:51.400 out it was Carrie Fisher's mom. Okay, so how does 0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:56.080 it end with Selma? Uh? Pretty? It was pretty traumatic 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:58.640 for me. I had to I had to go to 0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:04.239 a behavioral list afterwards and tried to understand why I 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:08.920 had such a bad job of picking, you know, people 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:14.799 to spend h to get into romantic relationships with. Um it, 0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:17.880 you know, we we ultimately got divorced, and you know 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:21.000 it's pretty sad. But she's going through now. Do you 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:23.600 have any contact with her? No? Not really. You know, 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:26.879 of course I wish her and I don't. I don't 0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:29.880 think contact with the X is too much history. No, 0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:33.840 she's she's she's reached out. But it's pretty pretty traumatic 0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:38.000 for me. I mean, what would she leave you? Or? Honestly, 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:41.879 if I'm being really blunt. Um, she might have been 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:44.919 turned out to be the meanest person I've ever been 0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:49.799 in a relationship with um, because there were she had 0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:56.880 some some personal uh issues, you know, um that you know, 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.359 She's had other scenarios. I'm sure people can read about, 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.920 you know, but um, and I really do wish her. 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:06.480 I wish her well. But for me, I wound. I 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:14.719 found myself cataloging like how many drinks someone might have, 0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:21.360 you know, and and like becoming very aware of of 0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:25.880 how personalities could change if you know, X, Y or 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:29.560 Z happens, And it made me a little a little 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:34.040 cuckoo in having to it was. It was really strange. 0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:38.359 If I really reflect on on my life to this, 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:43.320 to this moment, I think, um, my mother and father's 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.440 relationship and the stress it might have caused my mother 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:52.799 in maybe his dalliances with other women, UM, and or 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:56.000 my mom's up and ups and downs. It was. It 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:59.320 was a pretty harsh reality when I saw a behavioral 0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:02.520 listed and that he was like, well, so basically you 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.759 you married your mother, right, And I was like fuck that. 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.040 I didn't not like fuck you for even saying that, 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.080 what do you mean? You know? And then when I 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:13.600 started to kind of get underneath what I think. You know, 0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:17.160 he was saying, not only was was I going through, 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:23.720 uh the pain of you know, because I'm a pretty 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:26.879 intentional person. If I say I'm gonna do something, uh 0:39:26.920 --> 0:39:30.360 and make a commitment, I that's it really important to 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:32.839 me and I the failure of the marriage was a 0:39:32.920 --> 0:39:36.960 huge blow to me. You know that that notion. I 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:38.399 never thought it was going to be someone that would 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:43.400 ever get divorced or um uh. I think I just 0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:46.880 swung the toll polar opposite way of of I guess 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:51.240 the relationship that the energy I was feeling from my parents, 0:39:51.320 --> 0:39:54.680 if that makes sense, which I felt the same way. 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:58.040 You know, I got divorced. My X left me, and 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.839 after you left, I was I never would have divorced her. 0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:04.520 It's like my parents stayed together. My parents flought same thing. 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:09.640 Really fucked me up. Yeah, it was. It was hard 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:12.919 to to deal with. But I found myself being a 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:18.879 really harsh critic of of the choices I made. But 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:23.880 I have to say, uh, and maybe this is just 0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:27.880 bumper stick or wishful thinking. If all roads lead to 0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:33.840 the road that you're on, um uh. That journey of 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:38.239 self discovery after the fact of you know, why was 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:43.520 I attracted to say, let's say, like chaos, right, Um? 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:49.440 It led me to I truly I worship my wife. Okay, 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.160 So how long after you were done with Salma did 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:54.360 you meet your wife? A couple of years? And how 0:40:54.440 --> 0:41:00.880 did you meet her? Um? Through a mutual friend actually, UM. 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:05.120 And what's interesting is we had probably been in the 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:10.320 same place at the same time, you know, dozens of times, 0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:14.680 and just never you know, laid eyes on one another. 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:18.160 Not that I'm sur prize, but my wife is because 0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:24.200 it was your wife in the business she she uh yes, 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:26.640 but for a brief moment of time if you mean 0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:29.120 the business like an actress or something of that, she 0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:33.000 I think, you know, dabbled and then then no, she's 0:41:33.120 --> 0:41:35.520 like funk that noise? Amout. What kind of background did 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.200 she come from? So she grew up in Los Angeles, 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:44.880 her brother who's who's a great actor. UM and you 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:49.120 know really my brother as well. You know, I feel 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:52.800 so blessed in that. Really when I married into her family, 0:41:54.400 --> 0:42:02.319 very different style of parenting, UM, very different uh um 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.719 support system. You know, I think the environment I was in, 0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:12.400 UM could have been pretty competitive, you know, and and 0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:18.120 her her world is just everyone is, um pretty supportive. 0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:22.400 Um not. That's not to say that, you know, my 0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:25.879 parents were totally supportive, because they were, but it would 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:28.520 it would be like a whole other shell hours to 0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:31.919 kind of go over why the subtle differences. But they're 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:36.719 they're there, they are different. Um Uh, how many kids 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:38.759 do you have? I have two little ones? How old 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.000 are they? Have? An eight year old who will be 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:46.000 nine in December, and I have three year old. My 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.680 daughter is the oldest and my son is the youngest. 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:50.799 He just he just turned three. Okay, are you going 0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:52.840 to raise them like your parents raise? You're gonna do 0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:55.839 a one eight. I don't even put too much thought 0:42:55.880 --> 0:43:00.560 into it, you know. My philosophy, um is a lot 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:03.880 of communication. Obviously with my wife, communication is super important. 0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:11.840 But um, I I suppose the thing I'm consciously doing 0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:18.120 different if I'm thinking about my dad is I'm I'm 0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:23.920 more available, you know. And I did this. I put 0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:26.080 the show together called The Bizarre World of Frank Zappa, 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:30.200 which is this whole multimedia schmorge Bourg of awesome. And 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:32.640 it was, you know, all my a bunch of my 0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:35.600 dad's band members, people who loved to play with. They 0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:38.160 went out on the road, um and it was this 0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:41.640 you know, fantastic show and will go out again in 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:46.760 the in the near future. But um I I spent 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:51.400 so much time directing, conceiving of all the visuals and 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:56.320 the storytelling that's associated with the with the music, um 0:43:56.400 --> 0:44:00.400 that when it actually came time to show time and 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:03.319 I traveled with the tour, and that was the first 0:44:03.360 --> 0:44:06.479 time I've been been away from my kids, I was like, wow, 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:09.920 I'm kind of like living. It was surreal because I 0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:12.360 felt like I was my dad, not not like I 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:20.120 was him, but like um uh I was um. I 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:26.160 created a similar dynamic that my father had when he 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.319 was out on the road, where when he would call, 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.880 I had just these fleeting moments that were so meaningful, 0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:35.560 meaningful for me, and all I had was a telephone 0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:38.719 and I would miss him so much, right and and 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.400 think about like when he is he coming home and 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:43.600 all of this stuff. Um and I was I would wonder, 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:46.719 you know, was what he is he thinking about his 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:48.839 kids and the family? You know, just thanks to think 0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:50.680 about when you're a kid and then here I am 0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:54.279 as an adult roughly the same kind of age on 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:57.239 the like you know, the roles have reversed and that 0:44:57.400 --> 0:45:02.239 was a real trip to to to do that. But 0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:06.120 then it's also my dad's music that that's in the show. 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:11.279 Uh so it was pretty cathartic too. It's on so 0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:14.399 many levels it was to to be in that experience 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:18.200 and meet so many fans of my dad's music. Um, 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:23.960 it made a huge impact on on me as as 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:29.160 I understand uh who I am as a father, you know, 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:35.880 and you know I I they love me, you know 0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:38.400 what I mean. I don't have any kids, but I 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.040 take your word for it. Let's go back. So you 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:44.080 say you start working with your mother a year about 0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:47.360 a year before she passes on financial batters. I'm a 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:51.279 little confused the trust you still own the publishing to 0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:55.200 the music. Yeah, so the financial matters are The cost 0:45:55.480 --> 0:46:00.919 of the long legal battle was millions, I mean five 0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:04.879 six million dollars some crazy, right, So she was really 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:07.439 in the hole. And part of the way to get 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:12.560 the music back was UM when when the when that 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:18.440 UM deal was struck. Uh, there's you know, payments, right 0:46:18.520 --> 0:46:21.120 and if she was ever to default on the payments, 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:25.920 then we'd lose the music. So uh, it was a 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:28.920 pretty hefty price tag because she sold the music for 0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:31.120 a lot of a lot of money. So then to 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:37.279 be able to buy the music back to get it back, um, 0:46:38.840 --> 0:46:42.640 you know I would, I'd get a fucking call. Uh, 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:45.120 She's like I need a million dollars in a month. 0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:52.120 You know, like, ah, what the fuck? I'd have to 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:55.240 figure that out. Um, and I did that a couple 0:46:55.239 --> 0:46:58.480 of times. Actually, So where do you get the money from? 0:46:58.520 --> 0:47:03.719 You know, I would organized business deals or or make 0:47:03.840 --> 0:47:08.080 new kinds of I'd have to analyze the assets, you know. Um, 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:10.640 I put in my own money, and you know, I 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:14.800 just I did whatever whatever we could do, UM to 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:20.720 make sure our our business partners were satisfied, and obviously 0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.759 try to do the best that we could. UM, with 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:28.560 a mindful eye on you know, this is this is 0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:33.359 my mother's livelihood. It's you know, she lost the man 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:38.800 she loved. And you know, as as as much as 0:47:38.840 --> 0:47:42.000 I think my older brother or older sister, or my 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:45.239 little sister, or even myself have opinions about what it 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.279 could it should have, you know, it was always my 0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:50.720 sort of point of view. It's like, it's not my business. 0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:53.480 I didn't make the music. I wasn't I wasn't my 0:47:53.560 --> 0:47:57.640 dad's business. Partner, you know, and so I have had 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:07.400 no attachment to um, the a, the money or be um. 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:11.040 You know, it really wasn't something that I wanted to do. 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:15.400 Let me say it this way. My mother was someone 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:20.080 like you know, she's she's big, she's a big Democrat 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:24.240 and UM you know she she don't she would donate 0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.319 a lot of money to cause us she believed in 0:48:27.160 --> 0:48:29.960 And there was this opportunity to go have a photo 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:33.000 op with the you know, then president and vice president. 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:36.080 And she calls me and says, hey, do you want 0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:39.200 to go to this this event? And I say not 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:42.520 at all. I'm not interested. I'm sure other you know, 0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:47.600 I'm sure other people would be interested. And she so 0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:51.480 she's like, well, this is why I'm taking you because 0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:55.239 everyone else wants to go. I'm like, well great, I 0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:57.600 really don't want to go. And then it would become 0:48:57.600 --> 0:49:00.360 an argument, which is like, well I want to take you. 0:49:01.440 --> 0:49:05.280 So you know that I think in a weird way, 0:49:05.800 --> 0:49:11.759 UM in that my being self sufficient or trying to 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:16.839 be fair minded for all of the family members, um, 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:19.880 which I really genuinely take seriously and I want to 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:24.239 try to do. Uh. I think that that's why I 0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.480 woke up with this. Um why she asked me for 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.960 help because she she would all the time, you know, 0:49:30.280 --> 0:49:33.560 like a Okay, just to be clear, your three siblings, 0:49:33.560 --> 0:49:36.560 were they capable of giving help? I'm talking about business insight? 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:40.600 Were they not that kind of person now that financially 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:46.120 I don't I don't think that they. Um, I don't 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:50.480 think so. But I mean they might have a different opinion. Um. 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:53.080 But were they living off the family money or were 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:56.960 they making their own money? I don't really know to 0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:00.160 the extent all of those details. I mean, they're a 0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:02.600 lot of help given. You know, my brother didn't move 0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:05.280 out until he was thirties seven or thirty six or something, 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.279 which to me is just not my lifestyle. You know that. 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:13.600 I was like, I want my own space. I don't 0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:17.399 want to have my bedroom next to my mother's, you know. 0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:21.200 I mean, like that doesn't make a bit of sense, 0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:25.799 you know. But there were some pretty awkward, funny moments, uh, 0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:32.480 you know that I've shared with you know, like when 0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:36.560 when he got married, my mom was like, okay, you're 0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:43.160 you're married now and you need to get out, you know. Uh, 0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:45.880 And but you should ask him about you should have 0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:51.400 on the show because he's he's a super amazing talented UM. 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:54.120 You know, a musician, he's a he's a like he's 0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:56.120 a mutant, like my dad was a mutant. You know. 0:50:56.239 --> 0:51:01.560 He does things with his instruments that are he's I mean, 0:51:01.560 --> 0:51:06.080 he's so he's so phenomenal. I wish that for him. 0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:09.480 If he was born like ten years earlier, he would 0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:12.520 have been more popular than Edward Van Halen, you know, 0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:16.160 like he just I think he missed this window. Um. 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:18.160 And his music style, in my opinion, has just changed 0:51:18.200 --> 0:51:20.520 a lot because he's you know, by by playing Frank's 0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:25.640 music and really studying it. Um. He again, watch him 0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:31.040 play it's it's it's fucking insane. He's he's really amazing. UM. 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:33.480 And my my older sister inspired me in so many 0:51:33.480 --> 0:51:37.759 ways because she she does a lot of stand up. Um. 0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:43.320 She wrote her her first book, and I really thought, like, wow, 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:46.480 I'd love to be able to achieve, you know, for 0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:50.399 someone you know that dropped out of high school, miss 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.360 more than half of years, coolie year and super super 0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:56.080 bad dyslexia. By the way, I have a really weird 0:51:56.440 --> 0:52:02.279 learning disabilities. Um. The idea of of accomplishing what she 0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:06.880 accomplished was so inspiring to me. Um, and and she 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:10.279 was there for me more than I think my mom 0:52:10.440 --> 0:52:14.600 was too all the time. And I really I was 0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:17.160 really bummed out when she moved out, Like that was 0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:19.520 a huge blow to me. She she moved out I 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:24.400 think when she was eighteen two, Um, and I was gutted. 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:28.920 You know, she she's like super mama bear like well, 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:32.120 was always cooking something, making cy tea and you know 0:52:32.280 --> 0:52:38.279 it's uh, you know it's it's it's just so it's 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:41.440 just a fucking bummer. That's That's what what happens when 0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:44.920 when like family members died, people call birds go insane, 0:52:45.480 --> 0:52:49.279 birds going sane. That's all I can say. Uh, it's 0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:53.280 it's just a bummer. Okay, So your mother then dies 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:57.120 and it's public information that she does not divide the 0:52:57.320 --> 0:53:01.520 estate equally. Yeah, what is the inspira nation for that to? 0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:03.239 What did we are you're were it's going to go 0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:06.239 down that way? And what are the family members reactions 0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:10.239 to that? I mean not not great? I mean I 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:20.640 I think I know why, Um, that decision was made. Uh, 0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:27.280 my mother had a life insurance policy that she bought 0:53:27.640 --> 0:53:35.080 after she sold the Masters, and you know some of 0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:40.040 the financing here, I can't speak someone who probably selves 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:43.880 life insurance policies will kind of know what I'm talking about, UM, 0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:46.400 but I'll try to explain it. So, she prepaid for 0:53:46.440 --> 0:53:50.520 this this this big you know, life insurance policy, and 0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:56.319 there's something that, uh, I guess she wasn't aware that 0:53:56.480 --> 0:53:59.719 was in there. Um. And the way that she did 0:53:59.760 --> 0:54:02.440 the policy is that she was under the impression that 0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:06.759 she ever needed money, she could borrow against it. But 0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:08.759 there's this thing called a mech that was in there 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:12.000 that I guess would have had to make her pay 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:16.919 like a crazy amount on taxes. Right. That was never 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:24.040 part of um of her understanding. Right. So actually, when 0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:27.759 she needed to uh make some make a payment to 0:54:27.920 --> 0:54:32.359 save all the music, um, she reached out to all 0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:36.160 of us kids, and UM, she was like, hey, listen, 0:54:36.320 --> 0:54:38.320 you know I want to try to this is ultimately 0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:41.759 your life insurance policies for you guys, that I did, 0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:44.759 But what's more important to you money or saving the 0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:48.600 family business? And for me it was no question, like, 0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:51.800 you know, I think the family is the most important 0:54:51.920 --> 0:54:55.239 and uh, yeah, if you needed whatever you need, you 0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:59.719 should do. Uh. My little sister was the same, and 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:04.440 my older UM brother and older sister just had a 0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:09.719 different opinion. Um. And I think that I think that 0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:14.919 that's a big part of it's a big disappointment because 0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:18.520 it was a lot of arguing that that was going 0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:22.080 on between a lot of stress for me because I 0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:23.399 had to I was the person. I had to find 0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:25.960 the money to make these payments, you know, So she 0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:30.880 never did cash in the life interests, um, because I 0:55:30.920 --> 0:55:36.200 found I found the resources. Um. But I think that 0:55:36.239 --> 0:55:40.480 the notion of like, well, what's what's more important? You know, 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:44.200 and all these demands were made not by my my, 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:48.560 my diva diva or I you know, I think that 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:51.279 just was not a good feeling. But the demands being 0:55:51.320 --> 0:55:55.319 what kind of demands did the other to make? You know, 0:55:55.360 --> 0:55:59.239 you should ask them because you know I already get 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.480 beaten up enough fight, Well, this is your chance to 0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:03.839 tell your side of the story. Well, no, I mean, 0:56:04.239 --> 0:56:06.640 I'm I'm I'm not trying to hold anything back, but 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:10.080 I mean they you should genuinely No, I'm just trying 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:14.759 to understand before your mother passed, they weren't interested in 0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:17.960 saving the family business, but did they also want to 0:56:17.960 --> 0:56:19.799 sell it so they could get the cash? Is that 0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:24.879 what it was about? They wanted. Um yeah, I mean 0:56:25.239 --> 0:56:28.120 you'd have to ask them. But the way I interpret 0:56:28.239 --> 0:56:31.920 it is like, well, it was never our money to 0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:37.000 begin with, it was. There's so she's asking us what 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:40.920 to do because the reason why she's asking is we 0:56:40.960 --> 0:56:44.520 would all have to agree, right, So in all of 0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:51.240 us agreeing, um, I think revealed I think the future, 0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:56.800 you know. And it's of my opinion that in that moment, 0:56:57.560 --> 0:57:02.279 if if she was going to put people that will 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:05.880 do what's right for the entirety of the family in place, 0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:08.960 That's how I view it, you know, And that's my 0:57:09.040 --> 0:57:12.359 goal is I essentially work for the entire family as 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:15.799 a co trustee. All it means is that someone has 0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:18.960 to have the ultimate authority to say yes or no 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:22.280 to something. It's that doesn't prohibit you know, I'm not 0:57:22.320 --> 0:57:24.680 going to prohibit anyone in my family from everyone to 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:29.240 do something that is our mutual legacy. If you will, right, 0:57:29.320 --> 0:57:33.160 we all get the benefit from it. But there's just 0:57:34.160 --> 0:57:38.920 you know, I think it's just weird. It's just weird, Okay. Well, 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:43.000 the famous story is about Dweezl going on the road 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:45.360 in the issue of his right to be able to 0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:48.080 do that, he made a lot of public statements. What's 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:52.360 your viewpoint on that? Well, um, I can tell you 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:57.360 what happened. So uh, he was like, Okay, this is 0:57:57.880 --> 0:58:04.040 this is my business. Um and you know, if you 0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.320 it's so boring, but you know, think of it from 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:13.920 this perspective. I think in nineteen seventies six, my father 0:58:14.080 --> 0:58:22.040 trademarked Zappa okay and ah, And anytime you get into 0:58:22.080 --> 0:58:25.440 new businesses, if it was like a new trademark where 0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:31.200 you for anyone who knows trademark law or has trademarks, 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:34.720 if you're going to be selling T shirts with a 0:58:35.200 --> 0:58:37.200 you know, a name or a phrase on it or whatever, 0:58:37.280 --> 0:58:41.800 there's just different classes. Right. So as a family business, 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:48.400 we own these marks, right, and I think it's really misleading. Uh. 0:58:48.440 --> 0:58:50.920 And a lot of people think that that I tried 0:58:51.000 --> 0:58:57.160 to trademark the name, uh, which is no. I. I 0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.919 continue to uphold our marks so that we can act, 0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:05.040 we protect the legacy which is there, which is my 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:10.160 older brother and older sister's legacy as well, you know. Um, 0:59:10.240 --> 0:59:13.400 and you know there a lot of that got totally 0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:19.880 blown out of uh proportion, And honestly, really I felt 0:59:19.920 --> 0:59:23.040 like I was really being bullied by my older siblings 0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:26.280 to be if I'm being really honest, and I was 0:59:26.320 --> 0:59:30.720 in the frame of mind that it's not. Um, it's 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:32.880 really not something I feel like ever really talking about 0:59:32.920 --> 0:59:35.440 because I feel like it's nobody's business. It's family business. 0:59:35.440 --> 0:59:38.800 But they you know, you can look at statements I've 0:59:38.800 --> 0:59:42.240 made and statements that they've made, and I try to 0:59:42.320 --> 0:59:48.440 keep it as um, you know, as private as possible. Uh. 0:59:49.240 --> 0:59:51.160 And maybe I'm saying way too much. Maybe I'm totally 0:59:51.160 --> 0:59:53.800 contradicting that notion. But at least up until this moment, 0:59:53.840 --> 1:00:03.680 I really haven't haven't talked. You're asking me, and I am. 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:06.120 It's I feel like no one should air their own 1:00:06.200 --> 1:00:10.720 family business. But I can honestly tell you that, yeah, 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:14.640 you know, my feelings were totally hurt, and so many 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:21.120 mean things were have been said and done, and you know, 1:00:21.280 --> 1:00:25.320 I would never do anything to hurt my my family members. 1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:30.720 Family to me is the most important thing, period. And UM, 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:36.600 I don't feel entitled to anything. Um. And if you know, 1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:39.400 you asked earlier. And I think when people think that 1:00:39.440 --> 1:00:45.960 there's a money discrepancy, right, if you really think about it, UM, well, 1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:50.880 at least at least in in my case, there were 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:56.360 things that even weren't. Uh, that's still needed to like 1:00:57.080 --> 1:00:59.520 teas need to be crossed in eyes that needed to 1:00:59.520 --> 1:01:05.120 be dotted. Any chance I could um to have everyone 1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:08.560 have more. That's that's every action I took, you know. 1:01:08.640 --> 1:01:12.600 But the thing is it's an irrevocable trust, right, and 1:01:12.840 --> 1:01:14.880 that means that I can't go against it and they 1:01:14.880 --> 1:01:17.360 can't go against it. And so that doesn't make me 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:21.280 an asshole. It's just like I'm I'm by law. My 1:01:21.560 --> 1:01:24.680 I have to follow the rules. You know. Now, if 1:01:24.760 --> 1:01:30.280 people can all unanimously agree on something, maybe things can happen. Right, 1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:35.000 but you know so far that you know, at least 1:01:35.000 --> 1:01:37.800 in our family at this moment, you know, things are good. Now. 1:01:38.080 --> 1:01:41.200 It took a while to you know, to kind of 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:43.960 you know, all get on the same page. And I 1:01:44.000 --> 1:01:48.560 really choked it up to um, you know, the loss 1:01:48.640 --> 1:01:52.840 of I mean, honestly, there's no one else to complain to. 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:54.920 You know, you are your parents still around, you know 1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:58.240 right right? My mother is ninety, almost gonna be nine three. 1:01:58.360 --> 1:02:01.760 She's losing it. So but you know, the weird thing is, 1:02:01.800 --> 1:02:05.000 like all I feel, all the issues that that went 1:02:05.280 --> 1:02:08.720 maybe unsaid to Frank then got put into my mother 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:11.760 and you want answers, and you know, x y or 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:18.360 Z and I really really worked on my relationship with 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:22.640 my mother in terms of forgiveness or you know, I 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:28.640 had nothing left to to worry about, you know, and 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:30.360 I'm not I was never going to change her. And 1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:33.320 that's what I learned, which was I want to be 1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:35.480 able to have the best relationship that I can. And 1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:38.480 you know whose fault is it? And I think I 1:02:38.520 --> 1:02:41.240 believe this for any human being. If you know that 1:02:41.320 --> 1:02:44.479 you have issues with certain people, but you you keep 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:50.520 going back into you know, having issues, UM, be smarter 1:02:50.560 --> 1:02:53.439 about it, you know, have you think of it, think 1:02:53.440 --> 1:02:57.160 of it in a different way, make make the try 1:02:57.200 --> 1:02:59.440 to do the best you can. You know that. That's 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:04.520 that's I try to be pretty passive, you know. So 1:03:05.000 --> 1:03:09.240 your brother was on the road and news would say 1:03:09.320 --> 1:03:11.720 you wanted a license for use of the name. He 1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:13.760 always had a license, I mean the whole. So what 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:18.280 happened was I came up with this idea too. I 1:03:18.360 --> 1:03:24.800 called my brother and well I met with um you'll 1:03:24.800 --> 1:03:29.200 probably know who he is, uh, Bob Dylan's tour manager, 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:36.200 and the this this other guy named Danny Heaps, and 1:03:36.360 --> 1:03:41.160 I floated this notion of um going back and going 1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:45.440 out on the road, uh and playing Frank's music so 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.880 that you know, new new people could discover the music. 1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:52.920 This years ago and I was like, I'll you know, 1:03:53.000 --> 1:03:56.000 I'll call in and you know, see if my my 1:03:56.080 --> 1:03:58.120 brother might want to do it with me, because I 1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:02.120 after my dad passed, I really had an estranged relationship, 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:05.800 UM with my brother. We started, I mean, we we 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:11.040 did so much work together and you know, um, I 1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:13.320 don't know, it's just it's still kind of a mystery 1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:19.520 to me to this day. Um around it just feelings 1:04:19.760 --> 1:04:23.120 and things after after my father passed. But um, so 1:04:23.240 --> 1:04:26.840 I wanted to create this opportunity to say, like, hey, 1:04:26.840 --> 1:04:29.640 we haven't played music together in a while, why don't 1:04:29.680 --> 1:04:32.640 we try to help out, you know, the family business 1:04:32.880 --> 1:04:35.720 and do this you know thing called Tappa plays Appa. 1:04:36.680 --> 1:04:42.000 So when I called him, um, he was like, you know, 1:04:42.760 --> 1:04:45.520 I'll just do that, you know, on my own, or 1:04:45.680 --> 1:04:48.560 or that won't ever happen. You know, that's not real. 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:54.000 Now I'd already contacted, uh, the the people that my 1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:56.480 dad worked with that you know, when for those of 1:04:56.520 --> 1:04:58.360 you who don't know, if you're you know, you have 1:04:58.400 --> 1:05:01.360 a band, you might talk with the booking agent. They uh, 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:04.360 we'll tell you how much you can get for you know, 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.280 advance on the shows and all of that stuff. So 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:10.200 so I've done all the legwork. So I basically came 1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:16.640 with a you know, Turkey operation, and um, I said, look, 1:05:16.680 --> 1:05:20.400 there's this is just already in in play. Why don't 1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:22.760 you know come to a meeting, come, you know? He 1:05:22.840 --> 1:05:26.280 just he didn't believe it, right, So we all sit 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:29.520 down and we have a we have a meeting, and 1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:32.160 it's like it's very real, and I'm like, all right, well, 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.760 now it's time to go and talk with arm you know, 1:05:34.800 --> 1:05:37.920 with Gail and try to get this going. And the 1:05:37.920 --> 1:05:41.800 way that it was ultimately organized was, so, if it's 1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:46.080 going to be Zappa plays Zappa, my mother her feelings were, 1:05:47.160 --> 1:05:52.400 is that fair to Diva and Moon? So she was like, 1:05:52.400 --> 1:05:55.200 I'm going to create this entity called Zappa plays Zappa 1:05:55.240 --> 1:05:58.560 that anyone named Zappa, right, it's uniquely, it's just unique 1:05:58.560 --> 1:06:01.320 for the family that should anyone ever want to do 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:06.280 anything with Frank's music, this is the entity, right, and 1:06:06.360 --> 1:06:10.680 so cool, Well, I'm down with that. And then my mother, 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:13.600 my brother, myself we went on a world tour to 1:06:13.720 --> 1:06:16.360 promote around the world that this is this is what 1:06:16.400 --> 1:06:21.800 we were doing, and um it, you know, we were 1:06:21.840 --> 1:06:24.960 we were all moving forward and and then I just 1:06:25.040 --> 1:06:29.720 got into this scenario where you know, my my mother 1:06:30.640 --> 1:06:34.880 and and my brother and you know, people's emotions and 1:06:34.920 --> 1:06:37.760 things that you know, And certainly when it came to money, 1:06:38.240 --> 1:06:40.760 I was like, you know what, guys, you'd keep it 1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:42.960 all because I've always kind of been there. It's not 1:06:43.000 --> 1:06:45.320 about the money for me, you know. And I helped 1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:49.480 whenever I could. I mean, I put the whole fucking 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:53.320 show together, you know, conceived of having Frank play in 1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:56.880 the background where de Weesela was playing guitar, and you know, 1:06:57.200 --> 1:07:00.120 so it's kind of weird when when I'm trying to 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:03.920 put the bizarre world of Frank's APPA together, you know, 1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:07.120 it's it's strange to me with people who really don't 1:07:07.160 --> 1:07:10.960 know right when they have like pushback of like, oh, 1:07:11.160 --> 1:07:14.080 you know, like having video of Frank and playing with 1:07:14.120 --> 1:07:17.360 the band, you know, that's a cash grab. It's the 1:07:17.400 --> 1:07:21.360 same thing they said about Tweeesel and and me and 1:07:21.440 --> 1:07:24.320 Gail when we first announced it, and the same thing 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:26.600 that they felt when there's a video of Frank in 1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:30.000 the background with you know, uh tweel playing. He had 1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:32.000 to defend all that stuff all day long, and then 1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:35.600 it just you know, people can read about now who 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:40.320 who's the biggest person who's like, you know, the negative 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:43.959 about it. You know, let's get to the specific story 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:47.160 where he was gonna go on the road Zappa plays Appa, 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:50.520 and there was some disagreement between him and you. He 1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:52.880 he said he wasn't gonna be able to use the name. 1:07:53.320 --> 1:07:57.959 I know, I said, just pay a dollar for the license. Yeah, 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:02.440 a dollar. Here's the reason. Okay, when you pay a 1:08:02.480 --> 1:08:08.440 dollar for the license, it protects the name and the entity. 1:08:08.600 --> 1:08:11.160 So there's so much that the understanding to try to 1:08:11.160 --> 1:08:14.600 get underneath it of how it protects the global entity 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:19.080 of the concept, which is it's for all of the kids, right. 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:24.200 That is not something that I guess, you know, that's 1:08:24.200 --> 1:08:29.280 not his philosophy. And look, you can say like it's 1:08:29.320 --> 1:08:31.640 just a dollar, you know, and and when you go 1:08:31.680 --> 1:08:35.320 out and play, it protects the trademark and a license 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:38.120 on a global scale, Like you are the only person 1:08:38.760 --> 1:08:41.600 you know out there in the world who if we 1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:44.040 want to protect trademarks and all of those things, which 1:08:44.040 --> 1:08:46.000 he was what he did when my mother was alive. 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:48.280 It's not like something it was. It's not like a 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:53.000 new concept right on every a poster, you know, for 1:08:53.000 --> 1:08:55.120 his Apple plays app. But all of that information is there. 1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:57.160 It's not like some like, wait, all of a sudden, 1:08:57.160 --> 1:08:59.760 you want to do this now, it's nothing changed. In fact, 1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:03.000 instead of paying a lot of money for that license, 1:09:03.600 --> 1:09:06.679 it was a dollar. That's That's the thing that when 1:09:06.880 --> 1:09:09.559 when I became a co trustee, I was like, all right, 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:14.760 fucking it's just a buck, you know. But okay, And 1:09:15.960 --> 1:09:18.800 the lore is that Moon was aligned with him. What's 1:09:18.840 --> 1:09:21.880 her problem with the with your operation of the trust? 1:09:22.960 --> 1:09:25.880 I personally think it's just that they're not the co trustees, 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:30.360 you know. But but I'll say all day long, it's 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:34.000 I mean, it's it's a title, So like, go make 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:36.160 up your own title, fucking do whatever the funk you 1:09:36.160 --> 1:09:40.640 want to do. How much of it is not a 1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:43.000 not a lot of it actually, you know, to the 1:09:43.040 --> 1:09:47.800 extent that things that were kind of left um uh, 1:09:48.840 --> 1:09:53.080 like the publishing is kind of it's it's really not that. 1:09:53.160 --> 1:09:59.000 I mean, uh, the the percentages at the end of 1:09:59.000 --> 1:10:02.320 the day are are not even quite that anymore. That's 1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:04.320 what I was referring to earlier to the extent that 1:10:04.400 --> 1:10:09.120 I could make more benefit for everyone things that weren't 1:10:09.240 --> 1:10:15.960 inside the um inside the trust. It's I'm not trying 1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:20.759 to be vague. It's it's like the granular minutia of like, oh, fuck, 1:10:20.840 --> 1:10:24.639 my mom didn't do this contract right, or this needs 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:26.680 to be done because we have a deal with this 1:10:26.800 --> 1:10:29.760 partner or X, Y or Z. As as much as 1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:32.639 I could be like this is the easiest way that 1:10:32.720 --> 1:10:35.760 doesn't go against the trust, that everyone gets more, right, 1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:38.599 every chance I've been able to do that. I've done 1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:43.960 that every single time. Okay, Now, when we talked previously 1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:46.880 said when you took over the trust, there really wasn't 1:10:46.880 --> 1:10:49.799 any money coming in, not a dime. Was five million 1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:52.160 dollars in the hole. That's not the case anymore. Okay. 1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:55.479 The five million dollars were those payments to purchase uh 1:10:55.560 --> 1:11:01.439 the assets. Oh there's there's a meal in different you know, 1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:05.280 things that were uncovered in legal bills and just tons 1:11:05.320 --> 1:11:08.120 of stuff. It's just and that's not the case since 1:11:08.160 --> 1:11:12.759 you since you've taken over the operation, you have gotten 1:11:12.800 --> 1:11:16.439 rid of the debt. No debt, Okay, how much income 1:11:16.479 --> 1:11:18.439 you know, I don't need a specific dollar for you, 1:11:18.520 --> 1:11:20.880 which wouldn't tell me. Is it enough for all four 1:11:20.920 --> 1:11:28.120 of you to live on? Um? Yeah, considerable amount of money. No, 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:32.280 I think people may have a very expensive lifestyles. Uh, 1:11:32.439 --> 1:11:35.439 you know, I don't know. I can't tell you, but yes, 1:11:35.479 --> 1:11:39.280 to up to two people in the world, yes, you 1:11:39.320 --> 1:11:42.679 could make a lot of money. Can you sell the assets? 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:47.280 And are your siblings talking about doing that or want 1:11:47.320 --> 1:11:50.960 that to happen? Well, they wouldn't. They wouldn't be able 1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:54.080 to do that. Um. I mean we can talk about, 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.920 you know, those kinds of things, but as the co 1:11:57.120 --> 1:12:00.880 trustees that that's I think that that's the psychological rub, 1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:04.680 which is, you know, at the end of the day, Um, 1:12:04.720 --> 1:12:08.880 it doesn't take it's it's not everyone's signature on something, 1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:13.080 you know. Um. But what I say to them, which 1:12:13.080 --> 1:12:14.960 I've always said to them, is like, well, anything that 1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:18.479 you want to do, right, let's do it. You know. 1:12:18.520 --> 1:12:20.920 So like all you gonna do is literally anything that 1:12:20.960 --> 1:12:23.040 you want to do as long as it doesn't contradict 1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:25.479 obviously like a contract with a partner or something like 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:31.040 that's you know, we're not gonna be cavalier and and uh, 1:12:31.080 --> 1:12:35.559 you know again Negate something for someone else. But we 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:38.200 have the best benefit. I mean, we're the we're it's 1:12:38.240 --> 1:12:43.600 our business. So I can make the the most favorable 1:12:43.640 --> 1:12:47.760 scenario for every single one in the family happen as 1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:51.960 long as it's the exact same scenario for everyone. So 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:57.000 the benefit I get is the same benefit that Dweeesel gets, 1:12:57.080 --> 1:12:59.880 the same benefit that Moon gets. There's not some magic. 1:13:01.000 --> 1:13:05.000 There's not some discrepancy, right. That's that's where like I 1:13:05.240 --> 1:13:09.080 sometimes think back and like what is the real argument 1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:11.519 over what what was anyone getting all their you know, 1:13:11.560 --> 1:13:15.519 pennies in a twist over when it is you know 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:19.800 um As an example, if you decided to make a 1:13:19.840 --> 1:13:24.360 documentary film, right and you're the director, we don't get 1:13:24.400 --> 1:13:27.320 your directing fee, I understanding, you know what I mean, Like, 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:30.640 if you're gonna do actual business, the estate gets what 1:13:30.720 --> 1:13:33.559 the estate gets. But if you decided, like my brother 1:13:33.680 --> 1:13:35.479 is going out there and he's you know, playing the music, 1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:38.840 I was like paying pay a dollar to keep all 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:43.920 the money from the ticket sales, you know, right, Like 1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:46.920 you know here, that's that is it? Right? That? That 1:13:46.960 --> 1:13:52.120 was literally the deal. The discrepancy was, well, you know, 1:13:52.400 --> 1:13:55.720 there's merch. What merch is sold at the show, and 1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:58.719 what does everyone get? Like, well, the trust spells out 1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:01.640 what people get that can't be changed. So there's two 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:03.840 ways to do it. You can either buy it all 1:14:04.360 --> 1:14:06.800 right and then sell it whatever price you want, or 1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:09.680 which is which is a way to do it? Like 1:14:09.720 --> 1:14:13.719 buy it at like fucking rock bottom prices right because 1:14:13.720 --> 1:14:17.240 it costs money to manufacture it, you know, but even 1:14:17.479 --> 1:14:21.920 a viig that would go to the trust is paying yourself, right, 1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:23.720 do you know what I mean? Like the madness of 1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:26.960 all of that. So I'm like, there's this is not 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:31.120 some um, it's not rocket science. This this kind of 1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:34.800 business happens all day, every day with people. You know. Yeah, 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:37.439 it totally makes sense. So what's your relationship with Moon 1:14:37.479 --> 1:14:41.640 and do Easel today? It's it's better, It's it's you know, 1:14:41.840 --> 1:14:45.240 like my sister actually emailed me today over something pretty 1:14:45.520 --> 1:14:50.679 um horrific. Uh that was you know, I'm not gonna 1:14:50.680 --> 1:14:53.479 get into but I'm like, oh, that's it was like 1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:56.760 that's bananas, you know, like, you know, I let me 1:14:56.800 --> 1:14:59.599 know if you need anything. You know, it's scary, Uh, 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:03.200 since you Sagan um And and my brother used out 1:15:03.240 --> 1:15:05.840 on the road. He's you know, he he and I 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:10.960 took took a it was a much longer journey to 1:15:11.160 --> 1:15:15.639 kind of get back to you know, uh a working 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:20.439 you know scenario. But I mean he's I don't think 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:23.879 he's He's like my dad. He never stops. He's always working, 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:29.080 he's always playing music. So even just scheduling things or 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:31.320 you know, we we just we have to do a 1:15:31.360 --> 1:15:33.559 better job. I think all of us in the family. 1:15:33.600 --> 1:15:39.160 It's it's all the communication. And I'm pretty cautious. So 1:15:39.520 --> 1:15:42.000 when I'm like, all right, if if you you know, 1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:45.760 and there and they want information, right, so I give 1:15:45.840 --> 1:15:48.200 them as like it's really simple. I'm like, okay, here's 1:15:48.240 --> 1:15:51.360 what we'll do. Anything that happens, we basically send out 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:54.320 like our internal like here's all the things that happened 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:56.320 with the business. You guys are all, you know, all 1:15:56.360 --> 1:15:58.200 on the same page. This is all the exciting things 1:15:58.240 --> 1:16:01.799 are happening that everyone's in to know, right, But literally 1:16:01.840 --> 1:16:04.519 no one ever calls, no, no one ever calls, like 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:07.439 you give them all the information, right and like anything 1:16:07.479 --> 1:16:10.960 you want to do right, just I've they've never called, okay, 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:13.719 switching gear, so what are you doing to enhance the brand? 1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:20.240 And uh, you know, drive revenue up. Well, Um, first 1:16:20.320 --> 1:16:25.759 and foremost, uh, the musical content, right. I think the fans, 1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:30.599 you know, love the music, and I think I think 1:16:30.600 --> 1:16:33.719 that people are seeing the difference between the projects that 1:16:34.200 --> 1:16:36.720 my mother has done and then the projects that I've 1:16:36.720 --> 1:16:39.920 put out. I think people are really enjoying them. I 1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:42.840 brought you some, right, So how many projects if you 1:16:42.960 --> 1:16:48.920 release since you're in control? Oh I should I should 1:16:48.920 --> 1:16:55.360 know that, but I don't. Um, maybe twelve, you know, 1:16:55.439 --> 1:17:02.439 but they've been pretty substantial. Um, So you're putting out 1:17:02.800 --> 1:17:06.400 physical product the hardcore fans by it, you're doing the 1:17:06.560 --> 1:17:09.360 show on the show. We'll get back to that. Any 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:15.240 other ideas that you're contemplating rev done? You know, I'm 1:17:15.280 --> 1:17:19.720 I have been speaking about, um, you know, we can 1:17:19.800 --> 1:17:24.240 approach to do a biopic and my mother really kind 1:17:24.240 --> 1:17:28.240 of started that and she had some pretty amazing friends, 1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:33.800 great like really amazing filmmakers. UM. So that's more like 1:17:33.800 --> 1:17:36.600 a I think a waiting game because some of the 1:17:36.600 --> 1:17:41.160 people are are extraordinary, Yeah, that have expressed interests and 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:46.840 that I think would be UM cool. So tell us 1:17:46.920 --> 1:17:51.320 about the road show, the Hologram show. It's a it's 1:17:51.320 --> 1:17:56.280 a visual smart sport of awesome bro. It is a 1:17:56.280 --> 1:18:02.479 a unique UM visual experience. You know, for me, I 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:05.639 think it blurs the lines between cinema and a live concert. 1:18:05.760 --> 1:18:10.160 Because to to do what we we did, I selected 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:18.000 and isolated never before heard UM recordings from a rehearsal 1:18:18.360 --> 1:18:21.080 that my dad had in the seventies. That's kind of 1:18:21.120 --> 1:18:24.519 like the long haired like early seventies. That's kind of 1:18:24.560 --> 1:18:27.439 how I always see him in my mind's eye. UM. 1:18:27.479 --> 1:18:32.520 And I was wanted to, I think, have this seventies 1:18:33.160 --> 1:18:38.560 vibe to the show. UM. So after listening to the 1:18:38.600 --> 1:18:43.000 audio and and some really great song choices and some 1:18:43.080 --> 1:18:47.160 great performances. UM, then I started to work in earnest 1:18:47.560 --> 1:18:51.880 in conceiving of the storytelling all of the visuals. So 1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:56.160 I directed the entire show. You know, I produced the show. UM. 1:18:56.960 --> 1:19:00.360 I'm grateful to the company Illusion because it's you know, 1:19:00.560 --> 1:19:02.639 they put up all the money. UM, and I really 1:19:02.640 --> 1:19:05.559 got to I had a really good time, um, you 1:19:05.600 --> 1:19:10.439 know doing it. And and I designed the stage you 1:19:10.479 --> 1:19:14.040 know of how it works. And some of the early 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:19.200 UM development I did on on some pretty fun projects 1:19:19.240 --> 1:19:22.439 that never quite saw the light of day. But some 1:19:23.120 --> 1:19:29.120 interesting experimentation I did at Disney I brought into Um. 1:19:29.439 --> 1:19:32.240 You know some of the way that the the the 1:19:32.280 --> 1:19:37.280 people that experienced the show, the holographic projection unit. And 1:19:37.360 --> 1:19:41.559 I say holographic projection unit lightly because it's not truly 1:19:41.600 --> 1:19:44.800 it's not a true hologram, but people people like to 1:19:44.840 --> 1:19:49.000 describe it that way. UM, but you know, it gives 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:52.000 you a sense of volumetric projection. You know that that 1:19:52.320 --> 1:19:55.320 when you have a photo real asset um, like the 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:59.000 photo real version of my dad, Um, you know, it 1:19:59.240 --> 1:20:03.400 looks like he's really on stage. And the way that 1:20:03.640 --> 1:20:09.320 the system that we deployed um sits higher than the stage. 1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:17.760 So I created uh um monitors underneath the the the 1:20:17.840 --> 1:20:24.160 quote unquote holographic projection system, which then elevated the band 1:20:24.439 --> 1:20:27.800 so that it gives the appearance it's almost like having 1:20:27.800 --> 1:20:29.840 a stage on top of the stage, so that the 1:20:29.880 --> 1:20:32.759 band is on the same plane of existence as Frank. 1:20:33.520 --> 1:20:37.519 And then I surround this magic box that we can have, 1:20:37.960 --> 1:20:40.800 you know, a photo rel franc appear on stage. I 1:20:40.880 --> 1:20:44.960 surrounded all of that with all of these other monitors, right. 1:20:45.920 --> 1:20:49.960 So the trick of the show, and I think that 1:20:50.080 --> 1:20:52.080 if you know, I go see a ton of concerts 1:20:52.520 --> 1:20:56.719 and I'm I'm frustrated a lot of the time where um, 1:20:56.800 --> 1:21:00.800 the visuals are kind of on repeat, right you might see, 1:21:01.200 --> 1:21:02.920 you know, like I went to Guns and Roses. I 1:21:03.000 --> 1:21:05.360 love the show, but I noticed that it's the same 1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:09.040 skull and Roses, you know, going around a hundred and 1:21:09.040 --> 1:21:14.640 fifty billion times. UM. So the benefit actually of the 1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:18.400 fact that we have uh, Frank's vocals and his guitarist 1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:20.960 to a click track meant that all of the visuals 1:21:21.040 --> 1:21:26.360 can be done in time. So the the storytelling narrative 1:21:26.880 --> 1:21:31.679 happens um across all of the screens, which was a 1:21:31.680 --> 1:21:35.160 whole fucking clusterfuck to figure out how to fire the 1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:38.559 video in sync with the band, and then because it's 1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:40.840 a live band, making up all the you know, doing 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:44.080 all of the other parts, you know, other than Frank's 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:47.000 vocals or maybe some sound effects that we might have 1:21:47.080 --> 1:21:52.320 had as that relate to what you see. Um. But 1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:55.400 even Ed Man was you know, he's he made so 1:21:55.439 --> 1:21:58.640 many great sounds that plused the experience. Um, you know, 1:21:58.760 --> 1:22:03.280 live every night. So you go on this journey. The 1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:07.880 the the story I wanted to tell was um from 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:13.360 my childhood, teenage mind. UM, my dad introduced me to 1:22:13.600 --> 1:22:16.280 Marvel Comics. He was one of the first people to 1:22:16.360 --> 1:22:21.479 advertise in comics for music, and or he might be 1:22:21.560 --> 1:22:23.400 the only person who ever did it for all I know, 1:22:23.560 --> 1:22:27.280 but um, he Jack Kirby and my dad were friends, 1:22:27.680 --> 1:22:30.360 and I have all these awesome memories of like hanging 1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:33.920 out with Jack fucking Kirby and my dad and listening 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:38.320 to Jack talk about how he thought, um, George Lucas 1:22:38.400 --> 1:22:41.360 ripped him off with Star Wars because really Darth Vader 1:22:41.520 --> 1:22:44.320 is Doctor Doom and kind of went through all the 1:22:44.320 --> 1:22:46.720 other characters that were the archetypes that he thought for 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:48.559 Star Wars, and I was like, Oh, my god, fucking 1:22:48.560 --> 1:22:54.000 you beads conversation ever nerded at And uh so my 1:22:54.080 --> 1:22:57.000 dad really, my mother and father really loved Nora and Red, 1:22:57.320 --> 1:22:59.920 you know, the silver Surfer from the Planet's end locked 1:23:00.439 --> 1:23:06.080 um and the Power Cosmic and uh when my dad passed, 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:10.560 we were all together as a family, and I I 1:23:10.640 --> 1:23:16.160 just really remembered the the Power Cosmic because the light 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:19.320 in the room and I just felt like, there's like 1:23:19.400 --> 1:23:22.000 this light that left the room and escaped. And this 1:23:22.160 --> 1:23:25.960 the narrative I've held with me since his passing is 1:23:26.000 --> 1:23:28.639 that he kind of went full power Cosmic and went 1:23:28.880 --> 1:23:32.360 you know, he's now touring the cosmic us, right, and 1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:38.519 that that thing that I that I gave myself, UM, 1:23:38.600 --> 1:23:41.120 that story that I've had in my brain for so long, 1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:44.920 that was the starting point for for how I was 1:23:45.280 --> 1:23:47.479 thinking about the journey that the audience would go on. 1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:52.120 So really the opening of the show is Frank harnessing 1:23:52.280 --> 1:23:57.679 as much of of this power to um journey back 1:23:57.920 --> 1:24:02.599 to us for this wonderful night of music. UM and 1:24:02.680 --> 1:24:06.600 he you know, so it's like it's it's the cosmos 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:11.040 and the giant star star filled Frank head, you know, massive, 1:24:11.240 --> 1:24:15.080 and then it all coalesced into this one bright ball 1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:17.320 of light that you know, blast the audience and when 1:24:17.320 --> 1:24:19.519 you're you know you open your eyes again, there is 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:24.320 Frank holographically, you know, on stage, just fucking crushing the 1:24:24.400 --> 1:24:29.240 solo for Cosmic Debris UM. And then I wanted to 1:24:29.280 --> 1:24:32.080 make sure that from song to song you're never seeing 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:35.639 the same experience, so you just it's it's all rooted 1:24:35.840 --> 1:24:41.120 in UM things, animation styles or films styles that my 1:24:41.240 --> 1:24:44.360 dad loved, or conversations I had with him. All of 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:49.400 that became the nutrients that went into the storytelling. That 1:24:50.360 --> 1:24:53.920 that's the that's the show I grew out of memories 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:58.760 and and really fond recollections, uh that I had with 1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:02.040 my dad. And you know, he loved Terry Gilliam. He 1:25:02.080 --> 1:25:04.880 loved the art style of you know, Monty Python. So 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:10.120 for Stinkfoot, you know, we we went um searching for 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:13.960 thousands and thousands of postcards that we could that we 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:17.000 chopped up to kind of get to to emulate that 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:21.719 style of animation. Um, and it's it's that song became 1:25:21.800 --> 1:25:27.720 this biological attack, this evil stinkfoot, you know, force of 1:25:27.840 --> 1:25:32.680 nature that first takes over Havana and and you know 1:25:32.760 --> 1:25:35.639 then spreads to the rest of the world. So it's 1:25:35.760 --> 1:25:37.960 quite a show. But in any event, you've been listening 1:25:38.040 --> 1:25:41.000 to Ahmed Zappa. This is the source on all things 1:25:41.120 --> 1:25:46.960 Zappa Co. Trustee of the Zappa Trust. Ahmed, You're obviously 1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:49.760 creative man. A lot of synaps is firing. Thanks so 1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:52.640 much for being on the podcast. Thank you, thank you 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:55.720 for having me. Let's do it again sometime, you bet. 1:25:55.800 --> 1:25:57.799 Until next time. This is Bob left Slas