1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question. 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: I recently had a conversation over zoom with CDC director 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Dr Rochelle Willinski. Now, I know everyone out there has 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: COVID fatigue, duh, and you're probably really sick of even 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: hearing about it. But the scary fact is almost people 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: are still dying of COVID every day. So when is 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: our long national, really international nightmare going to end? What 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: is the state of play? Right now? That's how I 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: began our conversation, right, So, first of all, I recognize 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: everyone's tired. I recognize everybody wants to be out of this. 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: I certainly want to be out of this, and and 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm with everyone. I'm in that if we sort of 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: look at where we are today, UM cases are coming 14 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: down from om Coon. They have been at record highs, 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: but those cases are coming down, and they're coming down 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: almost as swiftly as they went up. UM. Certainly, if 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: we look at individual cities, we've seen them come down. 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: As a lagging indicator, we have seen hospitalizations high, but 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: those two are starting to come down. And then finally 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: that our death rates UM are high, UM higher than 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: we had seen in some other peaks UM, so around 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: twenty three hundred a day. UM. So that is where 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: we are right now. I certainly don't like to see 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: our death counts as high as they are. Those continue 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: to be tragic um with every single family they they touch. 26 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: What I can't say though, is over time we have 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: now are mounting more and more immunity in the population, 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: the substrate of the population. As we get more and 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: more people vaccinated, more and more people boosted, and people 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: who are encountering disease who will get some background immunity 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: from that. We have now background immunity, more background immunity 32 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: in the population. And we also have a lot more 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: tools than we used to. If you think, you know, 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: you say year three in this pandemic, and that's where 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: we are. But we also now have vaccines, we have 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: a menu of therapeutics, we have more testing options, and 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: so we're working now to you best utilize those tools 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: in the context of what may lie ahead. You know, 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: I get confused because we keep hearing that the omicron 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: variant is less legal and yet, as you mentioned, twenty 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: three hundred deaths a day, and that's the highest in 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: nearly a year. So can you just explain how those 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: two ideas can coexist. Yeah. I think that's a really 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: important question. So milder does not mean mild, and I 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: think mild can come in two different kinds of ways. 46 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: For every single person that gets sick, if you were 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: to get sick with O macron compared to delta, you 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: might be less likely to end up in the hospital. However, 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: or if we have three or four times the number 50 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: of cases because of how transmissible OH macron is, we 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: still end up with lots of people in the hospital 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: and again lots of deaths. So it is this interplay 53 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: between the absolute number of cases that you have and 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: that each case for case may be less lethal, but 55 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: because we have so many more, we still have challenges 56 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: both in our hospitals and with our deaths. I know 57 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: there have been breakthrough cases, but does the vaccine still 58 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: seem to protect people from severe illness? And can you 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: quantify the percentage of deaths from OH macron among the 60 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: vaccinated population. Yeah. So here, here's what we know is 61 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: that because of O macron two things have happened. One, 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: you need more protection, more immune protection from O macron 63 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 1: then you have with prior variants. And to just when 64 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: O macron hit many people who have been previously vaccinated 65 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: with their primary series, we're starting to wane in that protection, 66 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: So people who are more than six months out of 67 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: their primary series might have protection in the fifty pcent 68 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: range in terms of severe disease presenting to an emergency department. However, 69 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: with that booster shot, we can bolster that protection from 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: that fifty to fifty five range all the way up 71 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: to eight with that booster shot, which is why right 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: now we're really encouraging people to get boosted. Here's what 73 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: we know about what's in the hospital. The vast majority 74 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: of people who are in the hospital continue to be 75 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: people who are unvaccinated. We're also seeing people who are 76 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: in the hospital who might have been vaccinated, but either 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: they were vaccinated and not boosted, or they are people 78 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: who might be less likely to have mounted a really 79 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: good immune response to the vaccine, people who are older, 80 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: people who are more immuno compromised. Latest data from the 81 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: CDC on Friday demonstrated you are sixty eight times more 82 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: likely to die from O. Macron um compared if you're 83 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: unvaccinated compared to if you're boosted. Dr Lyndsky this may 84 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: sound like a selfish question, but I think a lot 85 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: of people maybe in my boat. I'm sixty five, I 86 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: was boosted in November. Am I going to need a 87 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: second booster or a fourth shot? Yeah? Right now, those 88 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: data are really starting to emerge in terms of waning 89 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: from your booster dose. UM. Certainly, we've seen in some 90 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: countries Israel, for the most part, have been starting to 91 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: think about and have been boosting their UM. They're older populations, 92 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: they're more vulnerable populations. We haven't yet seen a lot 93 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: of data on the waning protection from boosters in the 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: context of Oh Macron, and those data are just forthcoming 95 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: right now from the c d C. We are not 96 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: recommending yet a boost an other booster dose. I know 97 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: that you say milder doesn't necessarily mean mild yet. In 98 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: an open letter to Governor Newsom for UCSF, doctors including 99 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: the Director of COVID Response, are calling on state leaders 100 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: to acknowledge the transition of COVID to an endemic disease 101 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: and lift most masking policies for school aged children. What's 102 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: your response to that? Yeah, Um, well, I'll go back 103 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: to we all want to be in a place where 104 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: we are not living in a crisis situation. In my mind, 105 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: one of the places we have to look out first 106 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: is how are our hospitals doing. Um. Can our hospitals 107 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: take care of not just the COVID patients that are 108 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: in there, but can they manage the routine medical care 109 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: that should that comes in every single day? Our motor 110 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: vehicle accidents, are our heart attacks, are strokes? And how 111 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: are they doing? Because that is one of the indicators, 112 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: a barometer, if you will, that I look at to 113 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: a can we start um getting back out of this 114 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: crisis mode? And I would say all of us are 115 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: looking forward to that and want to sort of get 116 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: to that place, But in so many parts of the 117 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: country we are not there yet. We are still seeing 118 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: hospital capacities that are overwhelmed and not able to do so. 119 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: And so that is a place that we all want 120 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: to be and that we're all aiming for, preparing for, 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: and yet we're not there quite yet. Let's shoun there 122 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: be certain regulations or recommendations or restrictions depending on the 123 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: region you're living in and the circumstances that are happening 124 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: in that area. Absolutely, and in fact, we do at 125 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: CDC have a map stratified by county. Actually, that looks 126 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: at how every individual county is doing in terms of 127 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: cases per hundred thousand. We look at both hospitalizations as 128 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: well as death counts, and right now those cases are 129 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: still across the country um over every county, nearly every 130 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: county in the country is read. It is those cases 131 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: that actually help us inform when people can and should 132 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: be able to take off their masks um And so 133 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: we do do that at the jurisdictional level because as 134 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: you know very much, many of these is we're a 135 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: very big country. We're uneven with regard to how our 136 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: cases are, how our vaccination rates are, how our hospitals 137 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: are doing. But right now I will remind people, you know, 138 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: O Macron hit us with a lot of cases, and 139 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: so right now we're not quite ready to do that 140 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: more with Dr Rochelle Willinsky in just a moment, I'm 141 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: almost afraid to ask this, but an Overcrons sub variant 142 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: b A two has already been found in nearly fifty countries. 143 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: So what do we know about this variant? How concerned 144 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: should we be? Right? Really important questions? So be a 145 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: too is what they call a sub lineage A sister 146 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: of m B A one, which is the most prominent 147 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: UM O macron sublineage we have, so most of what 148 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: we have here in the United States, over ninety point 149 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: five percent of all macron is O macron, and the 150 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: large majority of that, the vast majority of that is 151 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: the B A one sublineage. UM. Now we started to 152 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: dedect this be a too sublineage. We have seen it 153 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: in some areas UM in Denmark and in UM in 154 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: the UK, well Denmark and India, where it's become more dominant. 155 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: In the UK it's still less than one percent. We're 156 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: starting to learn more and more about it. We haven't 157 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: yet seen any more severe disease from it, and it 158 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: does look like our current vaccines will work about as 159 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: well as they did as they do against the O 160 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: macron itself. It might be a little bit more transmissible, 161 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: which may be the reason we're seeing more and more 162 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: of it in certain countries. Here in the United States. 163 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: We've detected it, we've actually known about it here in 164 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: the United States since mid December. We haven't yet seen 165 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: it ratchet up in terms of seeing more and more 166 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: of it. We have a handful of cases here and 167 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: we're continuing to follow it very carefully. So this one 168 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be of grave concerned. I mean, how 169 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: worried are you, Dr Wilynsky? Every day you're going to 170 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: hear about a much more serious variant. I don't need 171 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: to be a DEBBI downer, but are we going to 172 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: have to be on a constant state of alert that 173 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: that an even deadlier variant maybe right around the corner. 174 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: So that is our job is to be on a 175 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: constant state of alert. That's our job at CDC. But 176 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: really I think the important thing is to be alert 177 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: and prepared and not yet necessarily to panic, right because 178 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: we know that our vaccines right now it looks like 179 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: are working against oh Macron, not quite as well as 180 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: they did against um against Delta, but they are working well, 181 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: especially if you get boosted. And our job is to 182 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: follow these variants. We do know as long as we 183 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: have circulating virus, we have the potential for variants. But 184 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: what the long term goal is is to be able 185 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: to manage these variants and to not have a crisis 186 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: every time we have a variant, but to be able 187 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: to live in the context of the potential variants that 188 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: might emerge, and that means that our testing is working, 189 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: our therapeutics are working, and our vaccines are continually working 190 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: and up to date. So will this be the new 191 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: normal something we just live with and manage with annual 192 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: shots that hopefully can combat whatever strain comes along. Um. 193 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to pretend that I'm content with where 194 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: we are right now as being a new normal. We 195 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: are coming down from a pretty robust surge, and so 196 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: that I don't think is a new normal place. I 197 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: envision a new normal place UM where our hospitals can manage, 198 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: where our workforce is back, UM, where we might have 199 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: to combat many surges, um, but that we have the tools, 200 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: the tests, that therapeutics, the vaccines that work. Jury is 201 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: still out as to whether and how often we will 202 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: need to have those vaccines. It may be that we 203 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: need them annually. It maybe just like you roll up 204 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: your sleep for your flu shot every year, you roll 205 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: up your sleep for your COVID shot every year. And 206 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: we still have more science to learn from in order 207 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: to see if that's where we're going to be. Even 208 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: if it's endemic, it could still be quite dangerous. Yeah. UM, 209 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: what I would say is I would like to be 210 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: in a place where we are endemic at relatively low 211 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: rates of disease, where we have low rates of disease, 212 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: high rates of vaccination, high rates of protection, and certainly 213 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: low level of death. I also want to remind people 214 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: that even with a vaccination, even for those um, even 215 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: with vaccination, we have the capacity. Now we have new 216 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: therapeutics and and even more science that continues to evolve, 217 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: and some of those therapeutics can also, as I say, 218 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: take the fangs out of this and really lead to 219 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: less severe disease. So we have a lot of tools 220 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: in the toolbox and working now to scale those up 221 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: to make sure that everyone has access to them. Children 222 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: under five still aren't able to get the vaccine, as 223 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, and I get this question constantly on social media. 224 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: When will we see that approved? And does that give 225 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: you pause? It all the idea of vaccinating children under five. 226 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: You know the companies are working towards the timeline for 227 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: children under five. I can't tell you exactly when that 228 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: will be with a date certain, and I know parents 229 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: are really anxious. Um when it happens through the f 230 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: d A process through to the c d C process, 231 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: I can tell you, Um, it won't happen with me 232 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: at the helmet CDC unless all of that due diligence 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: is done such that I would be comfortable allvaccinating any 234 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: child that I would have that's under the age of five, 235 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: so that I can that I can say. What I 236 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: can say is we really need to work to vaccinate 237 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: all those who are around our children under five, because 238 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,359 Speaker 1: we have seen time and time again that in households 239 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: where you have two and three people vaccinated, you surround them, 240 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: you you cocoon children under five um that they are 241 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: less likely to get disease. And right now, you know, 242 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: we have about fifty two per cent of our teenagers 243 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: who have received their primary series, about twenty percent of 244 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: our children between the ages of five to eleven. So 245 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: we have a lot of work to do, and I 246 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: would encourage parents to get their children who are eligible 247 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: vaccinated so that we can really protect those who aren't 248 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: eligible yet. A lot of people on social media also 249 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: wanted me to ask you about the troubling cases of 250 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: long COVID. Is the CDC collecting data on this. Many 251 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: of those folks feel that they've been sort of abandoned 252 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: by the medical establishment. Yeah, so we have a lot 253 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,479 Speaker 1: of studies that are ongoing at CDC, both a surveillance 254 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: level as well as UM through electronic health records, and 255 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: i AGE actually has quite a bit of funding to 256 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: look at the manifestations and disease of long COVID and 257 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: to try and understand how we intervene with long COVID. 258 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: So there are many resources. The one thing I do 259 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: want to say here, and I think it's really important, 260 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: is that UM, you know, COVID hit UM disproportionately across 261 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: the United States, and we've seen that. We've seen that 262 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: in more vulnerable populations, We've seen that in racial and 263 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: ethnic minority communities and UM. Because of that, that will 264 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: have implications on who gets long COVID, and so I 265 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: think we have a responsibility to make sure that those 266 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: patients who were hardest hit by the original wave of 267 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: waves of COVID nineteen that we worked to provide them resources, 268 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: access to medical care. UM for those who have received 269 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: long who have long covid UM. We don't have a 270 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: lot of data yet on O macron and long covid 271 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: UM because we certainly just certainly hasn't been with us enough. 272 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: But we're talking to our international community. Those who have 273 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: had COVID before US, South Africa, UK O, Macron before 274 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: US South Africa and UK so that we can have 275 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: sort of an earlier window as to what's happening there, 276 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: and then we of course will continue those studies here. 277 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. I know this is a politically 278 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: charged question, but it's still unclear how this virus started. 279 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: No animal host has been found, and there are many 280 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: critics who believe that this could have come from a 281 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: lab in luhan On and it's somehow being covered up. 282 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: What's your response to that, UM, you, I think it's 283 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: an important question. Um. We may not be able to 284 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of that question. What I can 285 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: say is that we have known many prior coronavirus, and 286 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't have insight into the truth behind that question. 287 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: I think it it would be helpful historically and scientifically 288 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: to know and understand it. I think we should do 289 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: everything we can scientifically to understand it. I also know 290 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: that historically coronavirus is whether they be stars or mirs, 291 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: have traditionally come from an animal zooonotic source. So we 292 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: have history that suggested the capacity to jump UM, but 293 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: that is not just definitive for this virus, so you 294 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't rule out the possibility. I haven't had enough window 295 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: into the science to to be able to say, and 296 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: I don't know that we will ever be able to 297 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: discern it. Tragically, it's been baptism by fire for you. 298 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to the world of being a public figure, Dr Willinsky. 299 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of criticism of the CDC's 300 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: public messaging. Looking back, what would you have done differently 301 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: or what do you think the missteps might have been? Yeah, 302 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: I think a lot about this. Um. First, let me say, UM, 303 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: I came out and said I was going to lead 304 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: with the science, and that is what I have done, 305 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: and it has been my north star. I came from 306 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: the bedside UM when I joined the CDC, and it 307 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: is you know, the patients, every single one of them 308 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: as individuals and collectively in public health, that drive how 309 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: I make decisions. Um, that science during a pandemic is 310 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: fast moving, and sometimes that science is gray, and you 311 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: have to make decisions when you don't have all the 312 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: perfect science that you would like because the situation at 313 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: self is imperfect. I think given the curveballs that we've 314 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: seen through this pandemic, much of what I might have 315 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: done differently, is to say for now or UM, this 316 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: could change or you know there there's much that we 317 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: are continuing to learn because we have had to update 318 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: our science as we've learned, as in our guidance, as 319 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: we've learned new science, UM, and so much of that 320 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: would have been Actually we need to continue to be 321 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: humble as we learn more and more. A lot of 322 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: people watching this, are listening to this are thinking, Okay, 323 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: I mean, you hear about COVID fatigue everywhere. Dr Wilenski, 324 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: I know you don't have a crystal ball, but when 325 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: you look at the data that you currently have, when 326 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: you hear Dr Falk say this will peak in mid February, 327 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: when realistically do you think we might be able to 328 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: get back to normal? UM. So let me tell you 329 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: what I think normal looks like, and that is we 330 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about those our hospitals can manage 331 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: patients coming in. UM. We are in a place where 332 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: we can start enjoying UH activities that we once knew 333 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: and loved. UM. I know everybody is interested in taking 334 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: off their masks, and what I would say is we 335 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: should manage the expectations that on you know, any given 336 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: date certain that will be back to normal, because I 337 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: think we're gonna tiptoe towards normal UM, and we'll increasingly 338 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: over time, UM, providing that there is not another variant 339 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: that throws us a curveball, increasingly over time be able 340 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: to UM start peeling back all of those layers of 341 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: protection that we have had UM. But I don't think 342 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: that I think we should manage the expectation that on 343 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: any given date we will be there. Finally, we ask 344 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: you one other question, because you've been super generous with 345 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: your time, but I think this is really important. I 346 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: know that you believe this public health crisis has really 347 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: shown a spotlight on the deficiencies and our public health 348 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: system and how we need to bolster it. What do 349 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: you think needs to be done so we're better prepared 350 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: for the next I don't want to say this, but 351 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: the next public health crisis, whatever that might be. Thank 352 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: you for asking that question, because we have so much 353 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: work to do. So over the last decade UM, we 354 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: have had H one, N one, Ebola, ZEKA, and now COVID, 355 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: and over that last decade there's an anticipation that we're 356 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: now eighty thousand people in deficit in our public health workforce. 357 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: So not only do we need the sheer volume in 358 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: the number of people, but we need to scale up 359 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: our workforce, upskill our workforce so that we have in 360 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: any given community community health workers and genomic epithem neologists. 361 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: So we have a lot of work to do in 362 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: scaling up this gil UM and and share volume of people. 363 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: Public health has to be an attractive place to enter. 364 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 1: It's an incredible career UM, It's it's very other oriented 365 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: and it's just incredible what you can do in public health. 366 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: Our data systems have been frail, they have been untended 367 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: to UM. We need to be able to have the 368 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: pipes connect so that data from one state can easily 369 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: communicate with data from another, that all can come together 370 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: at c DC so we can compare different trends so 371 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: that as you say, our region that's running into a challenge, 372 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: we would be able to see UM quickly. And then 373 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: we need to scale up our lab capacity or laboratory 374 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: capacity at every different at every different jurisdiction and state, 375 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: so that we have immediate capacity to detect challenges locally 376 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: where they are. We have a lot of work to 377 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: do in our public health workforce and in our public 378 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: health infrastructure. And that's what I'm really trying and working 379 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: and committed to be able to do um as we're 380 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: sort of shining a light on where our deficiencies were 381 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: coming in. It must be heartening for you to hear 382 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: that applications to medical schools have skyrocketed as a result 383 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: of this pandemic or increased dramatically. I don't know if 384 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: skyrocketing is hyperbolic, but it must be heartening to you 385 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: that many more people are at least applying to medical school, 386 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: which is good. Is but some of those people need 387 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: to go into public health when they graduate well, and 388 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: I was one of them, so um so I do. 389 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: There is an incredible pathway through medicine to public health. 390 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: There's an incredible pathway through schools of public health, and 391 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: really so many different pathways. And yes, it's really encouraging. 392 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: I love talking to young people who want to who 393 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: wanna have taken this moment really of this pandemic and said, actually, 394 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: this is what I want to do now. They were 395 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: moved by this moment. I was moved in my career 396 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 1: by the moment of the HIV epidemic that was that 397 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: was motivating so many of us to enter medicine at 398 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: the time, and so um take this moment um and 399 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: and uh work towards taking that incredible talent of these 400 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: applicants and moving on towards public out. Dr Rochelle Wilensky. 401 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: Dr Wilenski, it's really great to talk to you. Thank 402 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: you so much for doing this this interview. We really 403 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Next 404 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I Heart 405 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: Media and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic, 406 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate 407 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: producers Derek Clements and Adrianna Fasio. The show is edited 408 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about today's episode, 409 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my morning newsletter, Wake Up Paul, 410 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: go to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find 411 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: me at Katie Curic, on Instagram and all my social 412 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: media channels. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit 413 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you 414 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.