Speaker 1: If all your food, he's out there. I'm unwrapping a
Speaker 1: McDonald's steakagg and cheese bagel. Look at this steak and
Speaker 1: the juice running down the side. Got a little bit
Speaker 1: on a rapper here, and then the fluffy egg and
Speaker 1: real cheese floarted over the side, looking just so good.
Speaker 1: M M gri old onions and about a bagel. Two
Speaker 1: thumbs up a McDonald steakagg and cheese bagel for breakfast.
Speaker 1: Love it up, I participating McDonald's. Mark alprin is around
Speaker 1: here known best as the co author of Game Change
Speaker 1: and Doubled Down with John Hyliman Uh. He's been a
Speaker 1: former senior political analyst for ms NBC. He co hosted
Speaker 1: The Zoo, The Uh, The Gymnastics of Anthia, the Circus,
Speaker 1: which is great politics show as well. Uh I kild
Speaker 1: Um and is a clear eyed and clear headed thinker
Speaker 1: and write about the writer about politics because four hours
Speaker 1: imple this is Armstrong and Getty extra large. And Mark
Speaker 1: Halpern joins us. Now, Hey, Mark, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: We look forward to talking to you, and I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you from from my standpoint, I'm really glad to
Speaker 1: have you back on the scene. Talking politics a missed voice,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, very nice. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the feeling goes for both of us. Long
Speaker 1: long enjoyed your work. Um, there are so many different
Speaker 1: directions I could take this, and obviously we want to
Speaker 1: take talk about the book How to Beat Trump, but
Speaker 1: just your expertise and all this and some sticks out
Speaker 1: in my mind going back to you criticized it at
Speaker 1: the time, you criticize it afterwards, outlets, particularly The New
Speaker 1: York Times, predicting who could win by how much and
Speaker 1: whether or not that was the role of journalism. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump has done a lot of things
Speaker 1: that are rightly criticized, but I think the American media
Speaker 1: has largely failed to rise the moment of covering this president.
Speaker 1: A lot of the media acts says things that the
Speaker 1: Democratic National Committee wouldn't say in in going after the President.
Speaker 1: I've just never thought that was the role of the press.
Speaker 1: The role of the press is to inform the public,
Speaker 1: to tell people what's being said. It's not a matter
Speaker 1: of false equivalent to as a matter of safeguarding the
Speaker 1: public interest. I think the most ironic thing about all
Speaker 1: this is the press helped Trump get elected the first time.
Speaker 1: And even though a lot of people in the media
Speaker 1: would like to see Donald Trump not be reelected, as
Speaker 1: I write about in the book, so much of the
Speaker 1: coverage is gonna is helping him because it's leaving the
Speaker 1: impression if you're New York CNN or reader of MSNBC
Speaker 1: or reader of the New York Times, get the impression
Speaker 1: that Trump can't possibly win, when in fact, most of
Speaker 1: the democratic strategies I talked to, who are very smart
Speaker 1: people who got a lot of experience, say Trump is
Speaker 1: the favorite to get reelected, and the press is helping
Speaker 1: him by leaving the impression he can't possibly win, just
Speaker 1: like they did four years ago. Well, and I think
Speaker 1: it goes beyond that. I was reading one of the
Speaker 1: lead articles about the recent impeachment hearing in the New
Speaker 1: York Times, and it was so clearly it was so
Speaker 1: soaked in editorial that I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: uh most respective voices in American journalism have absolutely given
Speaker 1: up on the idea of I am going to maintain
Speaker 1: a relationship with moderates or moderate Trump supporters, or those
Speaker 1: of us will hold our nose and like the judges
Speaker 1: or whatever, um, I think they've given that away. You
Speaker 1: just anybody who has any affinity for Trump whatsoever, even
Speaker 1: nose holding affinity, can't stand a lot of the coverage. Well, look,
Speaker 1: the conservatives in this country. I've said from the beginning
Speaker 1: of my career about half the country thinks the press
Speaker 1: is completely liberally biased, and they've got a lot of
Speaker 1: the data they can point to. I used to say
Speaker 1: to my friends in the media, even if you don't
Speaker 1: think you're liberally biased, you need to understand that half
Speaker 1: the country thinks you are. And you should look in
Speaker 1: the mirror and say, well, why do they think that?
Speaker 1: Are they making it up? Or do they have reason
Speaker 1: to think of think it. One of the things I
Speaker 1: read about in the book that I think that I
Speaker 1: think speaks to the question you just asked, is you
Speaker 1: have to appreciate that almost have the country voted for
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, that the consultants I talked to, the strategist
Speaker 1: I talked to, think he's the favorite to be relected
Speaker 1: in parts disease and incumbent. And you have to understand
Speaker 1: those people, those people who voted for Donald Trump, many
Speaker 1: of them did holding their nose to some extent, but
Speaker 1: they thought that the country was going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1: They didn't want another career politician. And as you said,
Speaker 1: so much of the coverage of impeachment of aval Trump
Speaker 1: in general, it is colored by a disdain for his supporters,
Speaker 1: a disdain for him. But again, I just don't think
Speaker 1: it's the role for journalists, particularly disdain for Americans almost
Speaker 1: half the country who still support him. Our job is
Speaker 1: to explain not just who they are, but what they
Speaker 1: care about, why they feel the way they do, and
Speaker 1: not look down our noses at them. And I think
Speaker 1: I think it's just like I said, it's it's helping
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, absolutely absolutely. I mean I want to get
Speaker 1: to the particulars of why you and strategists think Trump
Speaker 1: is gonna be hard to beat. But well, you're just saying,
Speaker 1: how does the media not get that they're helping him?
Speaker 1: They loathe the guy, but the way they approach it.
Speaker 1: Many times I've been fed up with Trump, where I've
Speaker 1: thought that the nation would be better off with someone else,
Speaker 1: And then either Bill Maher will say something. You know,
Speaker 1: nobody can control what comedians do, but whether it's Bill
Speaker 1: Maher the Washington Post, not just think fuck you guys,
Speaker 1: I'm voting for Trump just because I hate y'all. I mean,
Speaker 1: and that's that happens. That is that is that is
Speaker 1: a that is a sentiment that I hear whenever I've
Speaker 1: talked to people who supported the president four years ago,
Speaker 1: and there's almost no one who supported the president outside
Speaker 1: his family who couldn't list a bunch of things they
Speaker 1: don't like about what he does. But when it comes
Speaker 1: down to a choice between Donald Trump and the Democrats,
Speaker 1: and when they and they, they're subjected to a daily
Speaker 1: drumbeat of media coverage which is hostile not just to
Speaker 1: the president but to his supporters. What he expects going
Speaker 1: to happen. People are gonna say, you know what, the
Speaker 1: press doesn't want me to do this again, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do it again, and that I don't know why the
Speaker 1: media doesn't see that. Um, they're running, they're running their
Speaker 1: lives in a way that is counter to what they
Speaker 1: want more than anything else, just to get donalds up
Speaker 1: out of the White House. Which is really interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. Although you know, this is certainly not under disgust,
Speaker 1: but I think it's under appreciated. Were based out in
Speaker 1: northern California and the the ideological bubble phenomenon where you
Speaker 1: willingly surround yourself only with people who agree with you
Speaker 1: um as opposed to you know, back when we were
Speaker 1: growing up, where you might be dimly aware of somebody's politics,
Speaker 1: but it's unlikely to come up, so you just you
Speaker 1: always brush up against different opinions and ideologies just because
Speaker 1: you don't particularly care. Um. The ideological bubble thing is
Speaker 1: absolutely deadly. You just are never cross examined in your beliefs.
Speaker 1: But again, you know that's certainly been discussed. So so
Speaker 1: you talked to strategy, Go ahead, Well, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say one of the reasons that I was one of
Speaker 1: the few national reporters who said Trump could win four
Speaker 1: years ago is because I covered Trump rallies in over
Speaker 1: twenty five states, and I didn't just stand in the
Speaker 1: press area and listen to speech and make fun of
Speaker 1: the way he talked. I talked to the people who
Speaker 1: were there, and I asked them why they were there,
Speaker 1: why they supported him, And I looked at how big
Speaker 1: the crads were, and I went to Hillary Clint events
Speaker 1: and I did the same thing. And if he did that,
Speaker 1: it was easy to see that of course Donald Trump
Speaker 1: would win because he had enthusiasm and they're writing the
Speaker 1: book he was leading a movement. A lot of liberals
Speaker 1: in the press mock that and say, oh, it's not
Speaker 1: a movement. It was a movement. It was a movement
Speaker 1: that Trump didn't create. It's a movement that he saw
Speaker 1: and took charge of, and and and and used to
Speaker 1: get elected. Hillary Clinton did not lead a movement, and
Speaker 1: and that made the difference. And the same thing could
Speaker 1: happen in this election. And you talked to a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of strategists, Republicans and Democrats. People have run campaigns,
Speaker 1: some of the smartest people in the country on this stuff,
Speaker 1: and they believe he can win. And why is that?
Speaker 1: Most of them think he's an overwhelming favorite. Some of
Speaker 1: them were down right despondent. On the Democratic side, first
Speaker 1: of all, you go to the question of incumbency. Since
Speaker 1: four elected incumbents have lost their bids for re election,
Speaker 1: it's hard to beat any incumbent. And we've had three
Speaker 1: straight two term presidents, first time since the founding of
Speaker 1: the Republic. That's happened. Clinton, wish Obama, all of them
Speaker 1: learned from the previous guy. How do you use the
Speaker 1: benefits of incumbency. And as we know, Donald Trump will
Speaker 1: use every every trick in the book. This guy does
Speaker 1: not want to lose. So incumbents always leveraged the office.
Speaker 1: Trump will leveraty office. And finally, Trump is a beast
Speaker 1: of a candidate. You know again, you can you can
Speaker 1: say he's he's got, he's shallow, you can say it
Speaker 1: doesn't always tell the truth. A lot of negative things
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump. He's a beast of a candidate, he
Speaker 1: does not want to lose, and he's going up a
Speaker 1: Democratic against end up going up against the Democrat who's
Speaker 1: not gonna have the same amount of money as Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: who's not gonna have the same experience running nationalist Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: and is not going to have the leverage of incompacy
Speaker 1: the way Trump does. So he's got a ton of advantages.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't even get to the question of the
Speaker 1: fact that the Democratic candidates have gone so far to
Speaker 1: the left that that's going to make it more more
Speaker 1: possible for Donald Trump to get votes in the center,
Speaker 1: which a lot of people thought he couldn't possibly do.
Speaker 1: Follow up a little more on him being a beast
Speaker 1: of a candidate, whether you know at at the podium
Speaker 1: and a rally on the debate stage. He's he's interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, even people who hate him follow him on Twitter,
Speaker 1: watch his rallies, talk about him all the time. One
Speaker 1: of the people I've interviewed for the books that Trump
Speaker 1: doesn't dominate the news. Trump is the news. If you
Speaker 1: want to try to run against him, you need to
Speaker 1: figure out how to play alongside of him in his space.
Speaker 1: But don't have the illusion that you're going to do
Speaker 1: something to to be part of the news. Trump was
Speaker 1: a television producer. Trump Trump is the most successful person
Speaker 1: in politics and the history of Twitter. He understands how
Speaker 1: to communicate with real people. Talk like a real person.
Speaker 1: I think like a real person. He's like Frank Sinatra,
Speaker 1: He's like he's like Johnny Carson. He has the capacity
Speaker 1: to communicate with people in a way that they find entertaining,
Speaker 1: even if they don't like him. And you look at
Speaker 1: these democrats, and one of the people interviewed for the
Speaker 1: books that our candidates are they were all they all
Speaker 1: took debate class in high school. We need a theater major.
Speaker 1: We need some who understands how to how to communicate,
Speaker 1: how to talk from the heart. Trump does that like
Speaker 1: him or not? These democratics strategists said, he knows how
Speaker 1: to win. Last time it was Korey Lewandowski, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: and a Twitter account. This time it's Donald Trump, air
Speaker 1: Force one and maybe close to two billion dollars. So
Speaker 1: you harness off a real campaign to a candidate who
Speaker 1: I think, after Bill Flynn, it's the second most impressive
Speaker 1: political athlete I've ever covered. And I've said it before
Speaker 1: and I got heat for it. But look, I think
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's it's it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: people like to these Latin these days. I think it's
Speaker 1: prima facia true. He won the Republican nomination and the presidency.
Speaker 1: He had no business winning either. This is a guy
Speaker 1: who was a Nancy Pelosi Chuck Schumer donor, a guy
Speaker 1: who was pro choice, a guy who had never run
Speaker 1: for anything. First time out, he runs and wins. I
Speaker 1: just think, of course, he's a great political athlete, and
Speaker 1: Barack Obama is a great as a great politician too,
Speaker 1: But he he had been touted as as a president
Speaker 1: since he's been at Harvard Law School. He had David Axelrod,
Speaker 1: David Plos, He raised a ton of money, He had
Speaker 1: a real infrastructure of people, county delegates, he had lots
Speaker 1: of help. Donald Trump did it pretty much all by himself,
Speaker 1: and now he's got all those same skills with the
Speaker 1: benefits of incumbency and a big, big death star for
Speaker 1: presidential campaign. So one of the ways we amuse ourselves
Speaker 1: primarily off the year, but sometimes on is will speculate
Speaker 1: about what the debate would look like. Can I realize
Speaker 1: we're getting way ahead of the book because it kind
Speaker 1: of moves chronologically, but um on the debate stage, as
Speaker 1: Trump does what Trump does, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: Bernie could certainly match him for bluster. Uh we we
Speaker 1: just we pictured Joe Biden having that moment he had
Speaker 1: in one of the debates recently where Joe Biden goes
Speaker 1: off on a venezuela and record players. You know, that's
Speaker 1: one of his moment and Trump just turned into the
Speaker 1: audience and saying what the hell was that He'll go
Speaker 1: in for the kill and people laughing in yeah. Look,
Speaker 1: it's instructive again to look at four years ago. A
Speaker 1: lot of the Democrats I talked to you for the
Speaker 1: book said, after every debate, we said Hillary one, and
Speaker 1: we slapped ourselves on the back and said, you know,
Speaker 1: Trump's losing the election right here in these debates. After
Speaker 1: Trump won, a lot of them went back and looked
Speaker 1: at the three debates as I did for the book,
Speaker 1: and you see again he was a strong debater for
Speaker 1: speaking to real people. He had an unusual style. He
Speaker 1: was often he often looked angry, um, he often went
Speaker 1: on tangents, He often didn't answer the question that was asked.
Speaker 1: But in terms of gut communication, he was. He was effective.
Speaker 1: And what a lot of people I interviewed said was
Speaker 1: Hillary was too passive. She she basically thought she had
Speaker 1: the thing in the bag. She thought, let Trump talk
Speaker 1: and and show off his his negative sides and people
Speaker 1: will turn against him. All of them said, You've got
Speaker 1: to be much more aggressive this time. So these are
Speaker 1: strategies who are worried about Trump winning. But the point
Speaker 1: of the book is not an attack on Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: It's it's my reporting of what these democrats say must
Speaker 1: be done if Democrats are gonna have a chance to
Speaker 1: And so it's not an anti Trump book or a
Speaker 1: pro Trump book. It's a book that says what a
Speaker 1: smart democrats think that need to be done. And in
Speaker 1: terms of the debate, a lot of them share the
Speaker 1: view you guys have, which is not very many of
Speaker 1: these Democrats are easy to envision standing on that stage
Speaker 1: with Trump and and obviously winning the debates. Do you
Speaker 1: do you do you play at his level? I mean
Speaker 1: if he if he says on the stage you ought
Speaker 1: to be in jail, or you're a liar or whatever,
Speaker 1: do you do you get down to that level? Do
Speaker 1: you try to be above it? I mean, what are
Speaker 1: most strategist thinks to do it? Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: one of the big questions that people were grappling with
Speaker 1: after after what Hillary Clinton went through. I mean, if
Speaker 1: it's basically somewhere in between. You can't let him get
Speaker 1: away with stuff they say, But you can't play at
Speaker 1: his level because, as one of them said, Trump is
Speaker 1: the master at the level he plays on. You're not
Speaker 1: no one's gonna walk in and do this. You know,
Speaker 1: most of the people running have run before a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, they've been career politicians and they know how
Speaker 1: to run a normal race. They don't know how to
Speaker 1: run this phrase. So what all these all these people
Speaker 1: said is not just in the debates, but in the
Speaker 1: game pay. In general, you have to not play Trump's game.
Speaker 1: You have to figure out the game you're gonna play.
Speaker 1: We have to engage with him. He can't just let
Speaker 1: him gallop off and do what he does. So somewhere
Speaker 1: in between, engage a little bit and try to pivot
Speaker 1: to talk about what you want to talk about on
Speaker 1: the level you want to talk about it. Just as
Speaker 1: an aside, it occurs to me I had to sell
Speaker 1: my services as a Trump stand in for debate training.
Speaker 1: I mean, because I tell you what, you had better
Speaker 1: be stealed to that sort of thing on a debate stage.
Speaker 1: I mean because if you think I'll handle it, I'll
Speaker 1: think on my feet, I'll deal with it. I just
Speaker 1: it would be a rare, rare brain that could deal
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I mean because as you may never
Speaker 1: dealt with anything like it. And what the consultants I
Speaker 1: talked to said was, you can't wait for the debates
Speaker 1: to start engaging with them. And a lot of them,
Speaker 1: you know, since the book was published, and and and
Speaker 1: and the campaign's gone forward, a lot of them say
Speaker 1: they're all making a mistake. Now they're thinking just about
Speaker 1: running against the other Democrats. They say, you've got to
Speaker 1: start practicing about what it's like to go up against him.
Speaker 1: You look at Elizabeth Warren when she went up against
Speaker 1: Trump on the Pocahona stuff killed her. It killed her,
Speaker 1: and and and it's an example for a lot of
Speaker 1: Democrats to say, not that's how you shouldn't be trying
Speaker 1: to engage with Trump. You got engaged with him, and
Speaker 1: you gotta and you gotta win, and you gotta show
Speaker 1: that you can do and you gotta practice because if
Speaker 1: you wait till September of next year, when you're on
Speaker 1: the debate stage with him, you know it, maybe too
Speaker 1: will be too late. I'll say one more thing. A
Speaker 1: lot of the people I talked to you for the
Speaker 1: book said it's possible Trump won't debate. You know, there's
Speaker 1: nothing in the law that says he has to. And
Speaker 1: if he thinks he's better off not debating, he may
Speaker 1: just say I'm skipping him. Oh. I don't know that
Speaker 1: he would turn down that sort of the super TV extravaganza.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if people can talk about it. Here's
Speaker 1: what he could do, though. You know, the debates for
Speaker 1: the last many years have been run by this group,
Speaker 1: the Commission on Presidential debates. Trump hates the Commission on
Speaker 1: Presidential Bates. He thinks that he they screwed him last time.
Speaker 1: Trump could basically say, you know what, I'm the president,
Speaker 1: I'm hosting the debate. I'll show up in debate. Sean
Speaker 1: Hannity will be the moderator. You'll welcome to come. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: I got a question straight out of the book I
Speaker 1: want to hit you with. But I've been wondering this
Speaker 1: and since you've you know, you've been on the ground
Speaker 1: in Iowa New Hampshire and followed all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Does any precedent matter for anything anymore? Is there any
Speaker 1: point in looking at, you know, historical trends or which
Speaker 1: is just everything new loss is new. But I'll tell
Speaker 1: you Iowa New Hampshire. Every four years people say, well,
Speaker 1: how can they be as influential as they were in
Speaker 1: the past. That's so anachronistic. They're they're lily white states,
Speaker 1: they don't have big cities. I wan to Hampshire are
Speaker 1: shaping up to be super influential for the Democrats. So
Speaker 1: that's something that stayed the same. And I think I
Speaker 1: think another thing is the same is you've got to
Speaker 1: have a message. You've got to have a story to tell,
Speaker 1: as as I was saying in the book, an American story.
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna beat Trump, you gotta have an
Speaker 1: American story that's better than Trump's story about how you're
Speaker 1: gonna how the country will be under your under your presidency,
Speaker 1: if you beat Trump, what will America be like? That
Speaker 1: hasn't changed. So a lot is different social media, you know,
Speaker 1: first and foremost in the partisanship, there's a lot that's different.
Speaker 1: But there are some bedrock things that are the same.
Speaker 1: And those those two are pretty key. You know, I
Speaker 1: can't get past what you said, Trump, that's so great.
Speaker 1: It's Tuesday night, eight o'clock, Madison Square, Garden. Handy's the
Speaker 1: moderate are. If you want to debate, that's where I am.
Speaker 1: I'll pay for your stool. You're welcome to common debate me.
Speaker 1: But that's that's what we're doing. And and and again.
Speaker 1: If you're the Democrat, what do you do? You either
Speaker 1: say I got no debate or I play on Trump's terms.
Speaker 1: So putting aside Joe Biden's uh limitations as a candidate,
Speaker 1: Um the whole end of the chaos, Fatherly steady, Um
Speaker 1: mature feel of his candidacy. I think is really good.
Speaker 1: I think he's a terrible candidate, and I don't think
Speaker 1: he'll do I don't think he'll get the nomination. But
Speaker 1: what did your analysts think about that field? Just understanding
Speaker 1: that even Trump's reporters are getting a little stressed out
Speaker 1: and getting Trump fatigue. A minority of the people I interviewed,
Speaker 1: a small minority agreed with you. Most of them said,
Speaker 1: that's basically what Hillary Clinton did last time. Remember a
Speaker 1: lot of her advertisements were, uh, you know, kids watching
Speaker 1: Trump say outrageous things on television and parents being alarmed
Speaker 1: at the example. He said, that's how she ran. But
Speaker 1: she she was a crappy candidate. Well but but I mean,
Speaker 1: if you look at her weaknesses, a lot of the
Speaker 1: same things are true Abiden, She'd been around forever. Uh people,
Speaker 1: people didn't you know, who didn't see what their message was,
Speaker 1: and just saying I'm different than Trump wasn't good enough
Speaker 1: for her. I don't think it will be good enough
Speaker 1: for Biden at past nominee. With the majority of them
Speaker 1: said was the winning messages issues and how Trump's policies
Speaker 1: are affecting people, And you're starting to see some of
Speaker 1: the outside groups that are trying to help the candidates.
Speaker 1: Do this. We just go to Wisconsin, go to Michigan,
Speaker 1: go to Pennsylvania. Find real people who have stories to
Speaker 1: tell about how Trump's policy, who voted Trump last time,
Speaker 1: who say his posities haven't worked for them. Find a
Speaker 1: farmer to the tariffs. Find them someone who worked in
Speaker 1: manufacturing who said, you know, I've been found a job
Speaker 1: in manufacturing after Trump got elected. And make those real
Speaker 1: people not a sideshow but central to the campaign. That's
Speaker 1: that's what the vast majority of the strategist I talked
Speaker 1: to you said will be required to beat him. You
Speaker 1: can't beat him by saying the guy is outrageous. The
Speaker 1: guy is on Twitter all the time. He told us
Speaker 1: what he was when he ran the first time. There's
Speaker 1: not There's almost nothing Trump's done as president that people
Speaker 1: consider outrageous that wasn't on offer when he was Trump
Speaker 1: the candidate. None of this is a surprise to people,
Speaker 1: so they most of the people say I talked to
Speaker 1: you said, I don't think you can beat him with
Speaker 1: his Biden message of restore sanity, restore the America the
Speaker 1: way it was before, because you know what, We're still
Speaker 1: in a post Brexit world. There are still a lot
Speaker 1: of Americans who don't want to go back to the
Speaker 1: way it was before. They still want change. They don't
Speaker 1: like the way Trump's doing it in every way. But
Speaker 1: if it Trump against someone who's for the status quo,
Speaker 1: a lot of the people I talked to you said,
Speaker 1: that's that's not a winning message. Wow, you mentioned Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvanian.
Speaker 1: From reading the book, and I've heard you speak on this,
Speaker 1: uh uh talking to other people about the book. You
Speaker 1: feel like candidates are already behind Trump in those battleground
Speaker 1: states and it's gonna be hard to catch up. Play.
Speaker 1: This is one of the biggest worries of people I
Speaker 1: talked to you said. They said, if if the candidates
Speaker 1: only think about winning the Democratic nomination, and even if
Speaker 1: they win the nomination, say in March after Super Tuesday,
Speaker 1: there to the facto nominee. It's too late. Trump has
Speaker 1: spent three years with very smart Facebook and other ways
Speaker 1: of targeting the voters in those states. For all your food,
Speaker 1: he is out there. I'm unwrapping a McDonald steak, egg
Speaker 1: and cheese bagel. Look at this steak and the juice
Speaker 1: running down the sign. Get a little bit on the
Speaker 1: rapper here, and then the fluffy egg and real cheese
Speaker 1: flowed over the side, looking just so good. M m mmm,
Speaker 1: grey old onions and about a bagel too foumbs off
Speaker 1: a McDonald steak, egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love
Speaker 1: it m more participating McDonald's is a Fisher House. If
Speaker 1: I had a chance to talk to the Fisher family,
Speaker 1: I would start crying because I can't articulate how much
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Speaker 1: That's Fisher House dot org. Trump's gonna get more votes
Speaker 1: in those states than he got last time. Almost definitely
Speaker 1: turn out going to be up. So he's gonna find
Speaker 1: people who didn't vote one last time. I take Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite statistics. There are six hundred thousand
Speaker 1: nonpology educated white men in Wisconsin who didn't vote last time.
Speaker 1: Trump campaign is gonna find a lot of those guys
Speaker 1: and get him to vote this time. And if the
Speaker 1: Democrat you know, Democrats spend all their time, all their money,
Speaker 1: all their focus just thinking about winning the Democrat nomination.
Speaker 1: By the time they get the Democrat nomination, whether it's
Speaker 1: in March or July at the convention, they'll never catch
Speaker 1: up to targeting the voters. No statlegrand states, and and
Speaker 1: we've we've had in the last few elections cycles very
Speaker 1: few states in play, meeting a dozen or so. This time,
Speaker 1: literally the election could could be just those three states.
Speaker 1: And Trump only needs to win one of those three
Speaker 1: states if he holds the states he won last time,
Speaker 1: in order to get re elected. So it's it's a
Speaker 1: challenge for the Democrats in those three particular states to
Speaker 1: try to be ready to go for a general election.
Speaker 1: We heard a lot of discussion in the days leading
Speaker 1: up to the last election, um about how Trump had
Speaker 1: no ground game whatsoever. I mean, he had no staff,
Speaker 1: he had no people. It was laughable. Um, how true
Speaker 1: was that? It was entirely true? What they had last time,
Speaker 1: which they have this time with more money and more
Speaker 1: time to plan, is Facebook and and and Twitter and
Speaker 1: the modern methods of a ground game, not not not
Speaker 1: physically on the ground, but communicating people where people get
Speaker 1: their news and information. This time they will have both,
Speaker 1: and they'll have both in an extraordinarily well funded way.
Speaker 1: It is it is laughable what they did last time. Now,
Speaker 1: the Republican National Committee last time had a bit of
Speaker 1: a ground game, and they did coordinate with Trump campaign.
Speaker 1: But the Trump campaign itself was tiny. There was a
Speaker 1: point in the general election. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: true by election day, but there's a point in the
Speaker 1: general election when Hillary Clinton's staff working on in the
Speaker 1: internet was bigger than the entire Trump campaign. And and
Speaker 1: Brad Parscale, who was Trump's data guy last time and
Speaker 1: kind of a secret weapon, he is in charge of
Speaker 1: the whole ball of wax. Now is what do you
Speaker 1: think of him? Pretty capable guy. He is a guy
Speaker 1: who has his slaws like all of us too. But
Speaker 1: but but he understands how to get along with people,
Speaker 1: and he knows what he doesn't know. And one thing
Speaker 1: he knows and he has honed is how to communicate,
Speaker 1: particularly on Facebook in the digital space. That's what he
Speaker 1: did for a living before so so people can make
Speaker 1: fun of him for for not knowing you know everything
Speaker 1: that Karl Rove knows about politics, but he's learned a lot,
Speaker 1: and and and what he's done is and by Trump
Speaker 1: choosing him, is they put at the center of the
Speaker 1: campaign this notion of now having more time and more
Speaker 1: money by a lot than they did four years ago,
Speaker 1: and figure out how to reach voters, people who voted
Speaker 1: last time, persuadable voters. Um they're targeting the African American voters.
Speaker 1: If Joe Biden, the democract nominee, African American voters are
Speaker 1: going to be bombarded with information about biden support for
Speaker 1: the crime bill in the nineties, that that is extraordinarily
Speaker 1: unpopular with a lot of African Americans. And and they'll
Speaker 1: be targeting those six hundred thousand white, non college educated
Speaker 1: nails in Wisconsin so parstale. If Trump is reelected, the
Speaker 1: decision to put at the center of the campaign a
Speaker 1: guy who understands the digital space will be one of
Speaker 1: the most important decisions Trump made. The book is How
Speaker 1: to Beat Trump is one of the ways to beat Trump.
Speaker 1: To portray him as a racist, because that certainly seems
Speaker 1: to be popular um, you know, as I said, most
Speaker 1: of the people I talked to do not think putting
Speaker 1: front and center personal attacks against Trump was the right
Speaker 1: way to go. They were much more focused on is
Speaker 1: the impact his possies have on real people. But there's
Speaker 1: no doubt that both parties have to do two things.
Speaker 1: And sometimes people like to say it's one or the other,
Speaker 1: it's always both. They both need to energize their base,
Speaker 1: and they need to reach out to persuadable voters, and
Speaker 1: and there's it is certainly the case that if Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is called a racist by people, it energizes the
Speaker 1: Democratic based so so rhetoric like that will certainly be
Speaker 1: part of how the Democrats try to win this election,
Speaker 1: no matter who they nominate. Anybody has watched a handful
Speaker 1: of election cycles as an adult is familiar with the
Speaker 1: idea of, um, you know, tacking way left or right
Speaker 1: and then coming back to the center for the general.
Speaker 1: But has the have the left leaning leaning the lefty
Speaker 1: candidates on the Democratic side gone so far left they're
Speaker 1: gonna find it hard to tack back. I think it's impossible.
Speaker 1: And most of the people who I talked to you
Speaker 1: for the book worry about this Uh, you know, just
Speaker 1: just there are three issue positions alone that that Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Warren and Bernie Sanders have that a lot of the
Speaker 1: Democrats I talked to, even some who are very liberal,
Speaker 1: think are just qualifying for winning a general election supporting
Speaker 1: uh single pair and the elimination of all private health
Speaker 1: insurance for a hundred eighty million Americans who have private
Speaker 1: health insurance now, be criminalizing the border, saying people can
Speaker 1: come in without facing criminal penalties, elite, you know, without
Speaker 1: without a legal status, and giving health insurance and health
Speaker 1: free healthcare to people who come into this country illegally.
Speaker 1: Those three positions alone of the Democrats I talked to,
Speaker 1: you said disqualifying. And the Trump campaign knows that. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you you rarely hear Donald Trump talking about
Speaker 1: those things. The reason is he's saving it for the
Speaker 1: general election. He's showing unusual for him, disciplined in in
Speaker 1: in waiting to talk about those things when there is
Speaker 1: a Democratic nominee. And that is the biggest worry of
Speaker 1: all that the Democrats have, along with not starting soon
Speaker 1: enough to think about the general election, which is disqualifying
Speaker 1: the Democrats disqualifying. That's a heck of a term, not
Speaker 1: just a bump in the road. Disqualified George Bush, disqualified
Speaker 1: John Kerry. For a lot of Americans, they made him
Speaker 1: a flip flopper. Unacceptable. Barack Obama disqualified uh Vit Romney
Speaker 1: by saying he only cared about the rich people in
Speaker 1: this country, Baying Capital, et cetera. Bill Clinton disqualified Bob Dole.
Speaker 1: You go back and look at those three guys, all
Speaker 1: re elected the year before the election, and look at
Speaker 1: what the press said about their chances for re election.
Speaker 1: Much grimmer than what people say about Trump, despite Trump's
Speaker 1: low approval y UH. One year, one year before the
Speaker 1: general election, UH when Obama was running for election, the
Speaker 1: New York Times magazine ran a cover story titled is
Speaker 1: Obama Toasts and their scientific formula said that Obama's chances
Speaker 1: for being reelected were seventeen percent. A year later, he
Speaker 1: was overwhelmingly reelected because he disqualified Mitt Romney. Not for everybody,
Speaker 1: but for enough people that he was able to get
Speaker 1: re elected. And that is the theory of the case
Speaker 1: of the Trump campaign. And that is why the Democrats
Speaker 1: I talked to for How to Be Trump said he
Speaker 1: can only beat Trump if you are strong enough to
Speaker 1: survive hundreds of millions of dollars of negative ad Trump's
Speaker 1: Twitter feed, Trump's press conferences in which he will try
Speaker 1: to do to the Democrat who has nominated, what he
Speaker 1: did to Jeff Bush, what he did to John Kasik,
Speaker 1: what he did to Chris Christie, what he did to
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, which is destroyed them politically, physically, whatever it
Speaker 1: takes physically mentally. I mean, Trump is the master. You know,
Speaker 1: the single greatest skill you can have the president of
Speaker 1: Canada is the ability to define your opponent on your terms.
Speaker 1: And that is Donald Trump's single greatest skill. How many
Speaker 1: persuadables are there in a in a presidential election, and
Speaker 1: then especially this one, how many people are you talking
Speaker 1: about that could go either way, because you know most
Speaker 1: people aren't in that crowd. Well, look, you talk about
Speaker 1: persuadable voters, and normally you're thinking about swing voters, and
Speaker 1: there are enough to decide the election, not just the
Speaker 1: question are they going to vote for Trump or the Democrat,
Speaker 1: but also are they going to vote for the Green
Speaker 1: Party candidate? Are they going to vote for the Libertian?
Speaker 1: But then I think of persuadable voters in addition as
Speaker 1: people who need to be persuaded to vote. People who
Speaker 1: didn't vote four years ago for Trump who might vote
Speaker 1: for him this time. People who didn't vote for Hillary
Speaker 1: Clinton who voted for Barack Obama. I mean, the number
Speaker 1: of people in Wisconsin who voted twice for Barack Obama
Speaker 1: and then voted for Donald Trump is extraordinary. Those are
Speaker 1: persuadable voters. So, yes, we have fewer than we used to. Yes,
Speaker 1: we are more polarized. Yes, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are out of reach for for one party
Speaker 1: or the other. But there are plenty of people who
Speaker 1: will this this election, who who are up for grabs,
Speaker 1: either because you've got to get him to vote or
Speaker 1: you got to convince him which side to vote for.
Speaker 1: What do you make a mayor? Pete's candidacy really interesting?
Speaker 1: You know, Look, there are four candidates right now who
Speaker 1: are positioned to be the nominee. We could see somebody
Speaker 1: rise up, but right now, therefore people who are leading
Speaker 1: the national polls, the state polls in Iowa, New Hampshire.
Speaker 1: The other three are in their seventies, Biden and Warren
Speaker 1: and Sanders. Uh, he's a young guy, he's a smart guy.
Speaker 1: He has he's he has captured the imagination of donors,
Speaker 1: both both a very wealthy fat cat donors who write checks,
Speaker 1: but also people give small amounts on the internet. He's
Speaker 1: a military veteran, which was one of the few in
Speaker 1: the field who's got military experience, and he talks about
Speaker 1: a new generation. You look at Democrats who have won Obama, Clinton, Kennedy,
Speaker 1: these were younger guys. These are people who talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, turning the page on on the leaders of
Speaker 1: the past. Now he's got some downsides. He's the mayor
Speaker 1: of a town of a hundred thousand people. Um, he's
Speaker 1: he is young, he doesn't have very much experience. The
Speaker 1: fact that he's gay is a positive for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but a lot of people who have no
Speaker 1: personal problem with worry that that would turn off voters
Speaker 1: in those in those critical states. So I think that
Speaker 1: he is he is. He could easily be the nominee.
Speaker 1: I think that he would have a hard time winning
Speaker 1: a general election, but it wouldn't be impossible, and I
Speaker 1: think that his his His greatest advantage now is, as
Speaker 1: I said, he's running against three seventy year olds and
Speaker 1: and for for a lot of voters of all ages.
Speaker 1: They just don't want to candidate that old. They want
Speaker 1: someone who's loose, more future oriented. I'd like to go
Speaker 1: through all the candidates actually with you, but we won't
Speaker 1: take the up that much of your time because I'm
Speaker 1: interested in your opinion. But it's been bubbling up a
Speaker 1: lot lately. I've come across a lot of long articles
Speaker 1: and podcasts about bringing back the smoke filled rooms, and
Speaker 1: maybe this system is a too much democracy. Maybe we're
Speaker 1: better off when it was about a party platform and
Speaker 1: in a picking a person to carry out that platform,
Speaker 1: instead of seeing which personality bubbles up and they decide
Speaker 1: the platform. Well, it's not gonna happen. So people may
Speaker 1: say it might be better, but it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Not with that attitude. I'm all for smoke. But the
Speaker 1: the Internet has has democrat and social media has democratized
Speaker 1: the process even more than it was before. Parties are
Speaker 1: not nearly as powerful as they once was. Trump is
Speaker 1: the ultimate manifestation of this, of just pure personality, no
Speaker 1: no history with the Republican Party, no fidelity to the
Speaker 1: Republican Party. And I think I think that's better. I
Speaker 1: think the up sides of all this are better than
Speaker 1: the downside. But it's still gonna take. If you want
Speaker 1: to be the Democratic nominee, you want to be a
Speaker 1: Democrat elected president, you still have to you know, you
Speaker 1: still have to win the delegates, you still have to
Speaker 1: you still have to participate in Democratic caucuses in primary.
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't think that the elites are
Speaker 1: out of the game entirely, but they are less less
Speaker 1: a part of this. And you know, you look at
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders not taking money from fat Cat,
Speaker 1: not going to UH fundraisers with big donors. Unprecedented to
Speaker 1: have two people in a strong position to be the
Speaker 1: Democratic nominee who have adopted that posture, that is, that
Speaker 1: is a big manifestation about what you're talking about. But
Speaker 1: the elites, it's not just in the United States, elites
Speaker 1: pretty much all over the democratic world. I have to
Speaker 1: get used to the fact that elites aren't in charge
Speaker 1: the way they once were. And and it's not going
Speaker 1: to go back that howling mob is so good. Mob
Speaker 1: mob is in charge and and hopefully hopefully somebody knows
Speaker 1: how to organize them. Yeah, no kidding. So, Mark, we
Speaker 1: have a tradition at the Armstrong and Getty show that
Speaker 1: if you make a prediction, you have to bet a
Speaker 1: finger if you're easy to make a prediction, and then
Speaker 1: nobody ever holds you account for it exactly. It's stupid,
Speaker 1: it's a waste of time, and you've probably been asked
Speaker 1: a thousand, ten thousand times to make a prediction. Um,
Speaker 1: so Aberry said, a bad predictions? What's that? Berry said,
Speaker 1: predictions are difficult to special play about the future. Those
Speaker 1: are the worst. Well, I'll say, I'll hit you with
Speaker 1: this then, um, you can predict anything you want. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: here's here's a better idea. If you were offered a
Speaker 1: thousand dollar bet on any of the Democratic candidates at
Speaker 1: this point, would you throw that thousand dollars down? Or
Speaker 1: is it just way too unclear at this point and
Speaker 1: you don't don't name any names if you don't want Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's more unclear than it's been for either party
Speaker 1: in my career. I think I think if I had
Speaker 1: to pick someone today, would be Elizabeth Warren. But I
Speaker 1: don't think she's been tested yet, and I think over
Speaker 1: the next couple of months she will be tested, and
Speaker 1: I'm based on how she's performed when she's been pressured,
Speaker 1: like with her problems with her talking about her Native
Speaker 1: American heritage. I'm not sure she'll pass that, and she's
Speaker 1: got no chance of winning in a general election. I
Speaker 1: just I can't imagine anybody winning who's for healthcare, free
Speaker 1: health care for illegals. I just can't imagine that winning.
Speaker 1: That That is that is of the view of Donald
Speaker 1: Trump and is the view of Nancy Pelosi. And when
Speaker 1: those two agree, generally, I would think it's probably true.
Speaker 1: So you're you're right, and and and you've got you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the leading candidates have that position. So
Speaker 1: I don't think it's clear who the nominee will be.
Speaker 1: If I had to pick today, i'd say Elizabeth Warren.
Speaker 1: But but I don't feel strongly about it. I think
Speaker 1: I think, uh, I think Sanders and footage age could
Speaker 1: be the nominee. I've been buried down on Biden's candidacy
Speaker 1: from the beginning, and nothing I've seen has has caused
Speaker 1: me to alter that. He still does well in the
Speaker 1: national polls, but I think I think he's more likely
Speaker 1: to finish third or fourth or even fifth than I
Speaker 1: was than he his first or second. And I think
Speaker 1: that will do a lot of damage to his candidacy. Wow,
Speaker 1: I'd say, But there there are a lot of crap
Speaker 1: political books to get written when the season is hot
Speaker 1: and they know they can sell them. This isn't one
Speaker 1: of them. This is really, really a good book. And
Speaker 1: I've always really liked your punditry. But we can't let
Speaker 1: you go without asking you about Hillary. What's the chance
Speaker 1: she gets in her answer the other day sounded so
Speaker 1: Clinton esque to me. She said, lots of people will
Speaker 1: have been asking me, and I'm not going to rule
Speaker 1: it out. Not ruling it out now sounds like a
Speaker 1: yes to me, she said, And I quote many, many,
Speaker 1: many people are pressuring her. Triple many. Yeah. Look, I
Speaker 1: was struck by that same thing too. A lot of
Speaker 1: times people say, oh, a lot of people are asking
Speaker 1: me to run for you know, senator, governor president, and
Speaker 1: they just you know, basically, their their their bookkeeper and
Speaker 1: their daughter is asking them to run. She's being at
Speaker 1: She's being asked by a lot of people. It's the
Speaker 1: most undercovered story in the in politics today. The panic
Speaker 1: that exists in the Democratic Party over the concern that
Speaker 1: Sanders are Warren or Boota Gage will be the nominee,
Speaker 1: and they'll they'll happen in the blink of an eye,
Speaker 1: one of them will win both eye when the answers
Speaker 1: say and basically lock things up, and the party will
Speaker 1: be in a panic because they don't think that those
Speaker 1: people can win. Schumer doesn't think they can win, Pelosi
Speaker 1: doesn't think they can win. So many of the other
Speaker 1: the donors, so many of the other elected officials. So
Speaker 1: that's why you see Deval Patrick getting in the race.
Speaker 1: That's why I see Michael Bloomberg, you know, thinking about
Speaker 1: getting in the race, and that's why people are saying
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Look, you can raise the money. You know
Speaker 1: how to do this. You've got more votes in the
Speaker 1: popular vote last time you could. You could correct the
Speaker 1: mistakes he made in Does she believe her own lines?
Speaker 1: Does she believe any of her own lives about it
Speaker 1: was stolen by Russia or it's about misogyny. Does she
Speaker 1: recognize she's a bad candidate and people don't like her.
Speaker 1: She she she, I think she believes all those things.
Speaker 1: She knows she's not a great candidate, But I believe
Speaker 1: and I think she had some cause to think so
Speaker 1: that she was hurt by by what Putin did without
Speaker 1: a doubt. But but you know, I think, I think
Speaker 1: I've said this before. I think that history is going
Speaker 1: to show that that what what helped Donald Trump more
Speaker 1: than anything else was the decision, the misguided, in some
Speaker 1: way selfish decisions that Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden made
Speaker 1: to the Rust side to run for president. Neither of
Speaker 1: them should have run. They both they both were such
Speaker 1: obviously manifestly bad presidential candidates. Are Clinton allowed Trump to win,
Speaker 1: and Biden, even if he's not the Democratic nominee, he
Speaker 1: kept other establishment candidates for getting in the race, allowing
Speaker 1: Warren and Sanders and Boutig to rise up. And now
Speaker 1: it may be too late for any other establishment candidate
Speaker 1: to get into the game, and the party may be
Speaker 1: left because because of Joe Biden's decision with somebody who
Speaker 1: can't win a general election because of those positions. We
Speaker 1: talked about Joe, you don't have to do this, Barack Obama,
Speaker 1: you don't have to do this, and and and he
Speaker 1: was talked out of it before. And just look at
Speaker 1: his record. I mean, he ran in in in in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight and he got one percent in Iowa,
Speaker 1: and he can't paign. He was wet, you know, and
Speaker 1: and so yeah, you know, I don't I think I
Speaker 1: think Barack Obama and Bill Clinton agree with what I said.
Speaker 1: Namcy Plosi and Chuck Schumer think these guys can't win.
Speaker 1: Biden can't win the nomination, and the other three can't
Speaker 1: win the general. Wow, and the party is in is
Speaker 1: in a huge, huge pickle. I think Biden would have
Speaker 1: the best chance of the foreigner general election, but I'm
Speaker 1: not sure he'd win a general election either. Mark Halfred,
Speaker 1: so glad to hear you talking and pontificating and analyzing
Speaker 1: and doing what you do the way you do it.
Speaker 1: Really enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, that was great. You guys
Speaker 1: are very generous. It's great to talk to you, and
Speaker 1: I have a good day. Let's do it again. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So we've got to we're recording this for the podcast.
Speaker 1: We gotta air some of this on the show, because
Speaker 1: that right there is flipping amazing. And it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: he's right, but he's he's as good as analysts as
Speaker 1: there is out there, and he's talking to fifty of
Speaker 1: the best people out there who could also all be wrong.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he says Biden can't get the nomination, and
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama, and Nancy Pelosi don't
Speaker 1: think that either Warren Sanders or Buda can win. Right,
Speaker 1: That's incredible. That you can win is a complete dud.
Speaker 1: That is incredible. Yeah. Yeah, the most underreported story of
Speaker 1: the presidential election cycle. I would agree. I would agree.
Speaker 1: I'm not in those circles. Um so I'm not feeling it,
Speaker 1: but I can absolutely imagine the panic right now. You know,
Speaker 1: if you were a half wit trying to sound like
Speaker 1: a smart guy, you might say, well, nobody thought Trump
Speaker 1: could win. But it's for different reasons. I mean, the
Speaker 1: Trump himself is tough to take. But his message was
Speaker 1: very heartland sympathetic, very you know, very very traditional American.
Speaker 1: People are saying his people are saying his personality couldn't win.
Speaker 1: People are really seeing his policies. He wasn't offering a
Speaker 1: policy so radical. People's jaws drop when they hear them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this one is their own party saying these people can't win.
Speaker 1: I've been a Democrat my whole life. You can't win
Speaker 1: with this, right, I tell you what I As we
Speaker 1: were discussing um Brad Parscale and and the ads and
Speaker 1: how how Trump is sitting on those radical policies. Not
Speaker 1: he's not talking about him much now. He's saving for
Speaker 1: the general. If I'm Brad Parscale, if I'm Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: I just have a loop. I have, you know, half
Speaker 1: a dozen different ads on a loop of this, these
Speaker 1: people advocating those three horrific ideas that he mentioned, the
Speaker 1: the open borders, the health care for illegals, and the
Speaker 1: eliminating all private insurance and turning it to government healthcare.
Speaker 1: I just run those over and over again. Donald Trump
Speaker 1: for President. Then I go play golf at the Raw.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you need to do anything else. Mark
Speaker 1: Halpern was the only guy in the set of Morning
Speaker 1: Joe four years ago that would say on a regular basis,
Speaker 1: now I think Trump can win. I think he could win,
Speaker 1: and I'd laugh at him. Look at the New York Times.
Speaker 1: It's got to five. Yeah, that's good stuff right there, buddy,
Speaker 1: extra large for all your food. He's out there. I'm
Speaker 1: unwrapping him McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel. Look at
Speaker 1: this steak and the juice running down the side. Got
Speaker 1: a little bit on the wrapper here m. And then
Speaker 1: the fluffy egg and real cheese folded over the side,
Speaker 1: looking just so good. M M. Grilled onions and a
Speaker 1: butter bagel too. Thumbs up a McDonald's steakagg and cheese
Speaker 1: bagel for breakfast. Love It, I participate in McDonald's