Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have
Speaker 1: spent the last twenty years building and working at some
Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. We worked with
Speaker 1: some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. When I see the people
Speaker 1: of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out
Speaker 1: the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R
Speaker 1: D HI and s R I R A M show.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression,
Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You live
Speaker 1: to try to defend your family, or you'd live to
Speaker 1: try to defend people if you can. It's not something
Speaker 1: I could put my finger on, but it's just inside
Speaker 1: of us. I would wait until hill of bullets for
Speaker 1: somebody in my family to this day, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why but it would, and everybody in my family
Speaker 1: would did the same. We just would. This is the
Speaker 1: Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County season three, Episode eight,
Speaker 1: Manner of Life. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: Katie's Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. So far
Speaker 1: the season, we've heard a lot about recent core proceedings
Speaker 1: between the Wagoners and the prosecute fusion that will shape
Speaker 1: upcoming trials. They've covered everything from where the trials will
Speaker 1: be held, what evidence will be allowed into testimony, and
Speaker 1: who might be charged with what. All of this leads
Speaker 1: to what we hope will be some small form of
Speaker 1: justice for the Roden, Gillie, and Manly families who lost
Speaker 1: the unthinkable. When the Masaker initially happens six years ago,
Speaker 1: a lot of the remaining family members spoke publicly. Not
Speaker 1: so in recent years, however, we've made contact with some
Speaker 1: people who want to share their memories of their family.
Speaker 1: Here's Jeff speaking with a Roden family member who reached
Speaker 1: out to us. They've asked us not to use their name.
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you found us and what made you
Speaker 1: contact us. Now I drive a lot on the road,
Speaker 1: and I listened to podcasts everywhere. I happened upon the
Speaker 1: Pike and Masker, which is part of my extended family.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to listen to it, and I was
Speaker 1: really impressed with the respect that was given to the family,
Speaker 1: and so a friend of mine and myself we eagerly
Speaker 1: wait every week to hear it, and so I just
Speaker 1: commented on it, you know, thanking you all for being
Speaker 1: respectful to the family. What is that experience like losing
Speaker 1: loved ones but then losing it in a way where
Speaker 1: other people are kind of a part of your experience.
Speaker 1: It'd be a strange thing to divine for you because
Speaker 1: we would see each other a few times a year
Speaker 1: at family unions and what have you. So it was
Speaker 1: a giant shop man. I hate to say this, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't as hurting to me as I know it
Speaker 1: was to a lot of the very close family members.
Speaker 1: And it's hard to describe a law such a loss
Speaker 1: of a large chunk of a family. When you first
Speaker 1: heard the podcast, what was your thought? I kind of
Speaker 1: got interested in yours because you all would give the
Speaker 1: facts as they were, and then you would talk about
Speaker 1: the possibilities of how that would make people feel. So
Speaker 1: that was very interesting to me. These are not just
Speaker 1: people who were removed from this earth. They were people.
Speaker 1: They were real people. You actually going after trying to
Speaker 1: bring real life people to this is pretty exciting to me.
Speaker 1: I mean, not making them as victims alone. You're making
Speaker 1: them as people, and that's appreciated. Jeff asked what growing
Speaker 1: up as a member of the Roden family was like
Speaker 1: he first spoke about Geneva Roden as a reminder, Geneva
Speaker 1: is Chris Roden seniors and Kenneth's mother, Frankie Hannah and
Speaker 1: little Chris's grandmother. Growing up, especially in my younger years,
Speaker 1: we would go visit Geneva and her family, and the
Speaker 1: things I remember the most. When you met Geneva, you
Speaker 1: were guaranteed a smile and always a hug, and whatever
Speaker 1: they had, whether it be a watermelon or a piece
Speaker 1: of cake or whatever it was, was shared with you.
Speaker 1: When you got there, you just became one of the kids.
Speaker 1: Geneva just was always the sweetest thing ever was and
Speaker 1: would just hug you to death. About three times a
Speaker 1: year our family would get together and we would just
Speaker 1: pile in a car and we would ride and see relatives,
Speaker 1: and Geneva lived close to other relatives, so we would
Speaker 1: just kind of make a big round trip into Ohio
Speaker 1: and then back into Kentucky. We would spend two or
Speaker 1: three days up there, just filing up wherever we could.
Speaker 1: And our family was that way. If you went to
Speaker 1: their house, they just made room for you. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1: You just had a great time, and you go swimming,
Speaker 1: and you do this and that. We didn't have Facebook
Speaker 1: or things like that in those days. It sounds like
Speaker 1: you like a nice way to grow up. It was,
Speaker 1: it really was. Immediately after the murders, Geneva spoke publicly
Speaker 1: about the unimatchinable loss she was facing. On April twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, in one single night, she lost her sons,
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior and Kenneth Roden, her grandchildren Frankie, Hannah
Speaker 1: May and Little Chris Roden, and her nephew Gary. Her word,
Speaker 1: it's where a stark juxtaposition to the idyllic glafe her
Speaker 1: family once lived. I'd like to say that I'm the
Speaker 1: mother Christopher Senior and the mother of Kenneth, and from
Speaker 1: my mother's heart that I hurt so bad inside from
Speaker 1: the day. That night I helmed out it's there's someone
Speaker 1: out there that knows anything about what happened with the
Speaker 1: please please come forward. There has to be so it
Speaker 1: was all both like the world had ended when I
Speaker 1: found out about the family that they took out, my grandchildren,
Speaker 1: Mike's daughters, all my nephew, and my grandson, my girlfriend.
Speaker 1: There was eight members that they took that day and
Speaker 1: they hurt them, blew away from a mother. I think
Speaker 1: about a day night, I lose a lot of sleep
Speaker 1: board and still what trying to go on the rest
Speaker 1: of my children is going to so much listen to
Speaker 1: brothers the same day. I would have never dreamed that's
Speaker 1: something my guess what had happened here Stephanie and Jeff
Speaker 1: speaking about Geneva Rodin. Geneva Roden is nearly eighty years old,
Speaker 1: and it's impossible to imagine what she deals with every day,
Speaker 1: not only the court proceedings, but also being there for
Speaker 1: her family because there's still many other family members who
Speaker 1: rely on her and lean on her as the Rodan matriarch.
Speaker 1: Several years ago, when we were first making the documentary
Speaker 1: for Oxygen about the Roden murders. Jeff and I actually
Speaker 1: went to the nursing home that Geneva resided at. At
Speaker 1: the time, we actually thought she was a distant cousin
Speaker 1: to the Rodens, and we didn't realize until we got
Speaker 1: there that she was actually Chris Senior's mother and that
Speaker 1: she had lost her children and her grandchildren, And ultimately
Speaker 1: she was uncomfortable speaking on camera, which we of course
Speaker 1: completely understood. It was all just way too raw for her,
Speaker 1: and her level of grief was frankly unimaginable. Geneva is
Speaker 1: really an example of a person who's frankly inspiring. You know,
Speaker 1: We've said this many times since then. When you meet
Speaker 1: another human being who has experienced such deep pain and
Speaker 1: she can continue to push on and continue to be
Speaker 1: there for her loved ones and show up to court
Speaker 1: relentlessly and push through, then surely the rest of us
Speaker 1: can push through whatever is stressing us in our lives.
Speaker 1: And she's really offered us a lot of perspective. I
Speaker 1: share this really simply to say, the level of grief
Speaker 1: that this family has experienced is incredibly far reaching. Geneva
Speaker 1: Wrotan and other members for her family, I would imagine
Speaker 1: the catalysts for them wanting to speak out is to
Speaker 1: bring attention to their family's case and not just have
Speaker 1: to be about the accused Wagner family and really remind
Speaker 1: everyone that the victims, the Rodents in this case, were
Speaker 1: real human beings who were not just what happened to
Speaker 1: them in twenty sixteen. It's so true. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: oftentimes when we talk about crime, the victims just become
Speaker 1: a footnote. It's always about the manner of death and
Speaker 1: less about the manner of life. And this is another
Speaker 1: example that you know, Geneva is a living and breathing
Speaker 1: woman who has had her entire family wiped out, and
Speaker 1: whoever is responsible for that should pay. Jeff continued his
Speaker 1: conversation with the Rodent family member. Where Chris Senior and
Speaker 1: Garry and Kenneth were they around? Did you see them?
Speaker 1: They were about probably eight or nine, maybe teen years younger. Man.
Speaker 1: I remember Chris Junior and Kenneth and them. They were
Speaker 1: wandering around just doing what kids do. They played with us,
Speaker 1: kids have always played together. We really didn't keep in
Speaker 1: contact after you know, outside of family unions, life kept
Speaker 1: getting in a way for everyone, and that's just the
Speaker 1: sad fact of the way was they were just beating
Speaker 1: their way through this world, just like everyone else. To believe.
Speaker 1: That's why this thing was more shocking than one would think.
Speaker 1: It became clear that there were obvious parallels between Chris
Speaker 1: Roden Senior's upbringing and how he, alongside his wife Dana,
Speaker 1: raised his own family. They were just people, They were
Speaker 1: just good old Americans. She was the daughter of a
Speaker 1: man named Tipp who lost his life in a little
Speaker 1: place called Jonesborough, Ohio. He was logging. An attractor come
Speaker 1: back on him and killed him. And then not too
Speaker 1: long after that, she lost her mother. That left Geneva
Speaker 1: with raising her own siblings. After losing her mother and father,
Speaker 1: she got married and they had children, and this happened
Speaker 1: at the same time, and that she had this entire
Speaker 1: group of people, her siblings and her own children that
Speaker 1: she was raising. So that takes an immense amount of
Speaker 1: strength to do. Giving the way the world is in.
Speaker 1: Geneva didn't have a whole lot to get through this world,
Speaker 1: but she made it. She was a finer hen and
Speaker 1: she raised them, and she raised fine people. Geneva's father
Speaker 1: was one of eight or ten brothers who grew up
Speaker 1: down in Kentucky. They lived in poverty, but it's not
Speaker 1: a poverty that most people would understand. During the wintertime,
Speaker 1: they didn't have shoes. They didn't even have leather to
Speaker 1: put on their feet. They would wrap rags or whatever
Speaker 1: they could find around their feet just to get to school.
Speaker 1: They went to school in a one room schoolhouse on
Speaker 1: a little place called Grassy Creek. There was no way
Speaker 1: to make a living for their father, James. That survival
Speaker 1: instinct was passed down through through Geneva in most of
Speaker 1: the family, and her dad was an amazing man, even
Speaker 1: long before there were mechanics. He would find old cars
Speaker 1: or tractors and make a run, and then he would
Speaker 1: trade him for stuff that didn't run. Now, in that
Speaker 1: trade he would get a little extra money which would
Speaker 1: go to his family and they might be able to
Speaker 1: buy a little something, a little bit of food. I've
Speaker 1: heard the Rodens being super resourceful with cars and good
Speaker 1: with your hands. I've heard that about Chris Junior being
Speaker 1: fiercely protective of one another and going to bath for
Speaker 1: each other. It's the same stuff, and it's a little
Speaker 1: easier for me than it then it would be for you.
Speaker 1: Of course, because I know the family. But that is
Speaker 1: very interesting that you can draw a line from the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds to her children and see similarities, like
Speaker 1: Chris Junior would just jump under the hood of a
Speaker 1: car and be able to fix it. I can see
Speaker 1: those similarities and being able to defend each other. I
Speaker 1: could see that going all the way back to that
Speaker 1: side of the family. I just want to clarify by
Speaker 1: Chris Junior, you mean Chris Roden sor yes, he's Chris
Speaker 1: Junior to you, because there's another Chris. Yes. Jeff also
Speaker 1: recently had a phone conversation with Talicia, Dana and Chris
Speaker 1: Senior's niece and Hannah, Frankie and little Chris's cousin Will
Speaker 1: gone more than six years now, the Rodents are present
Speaker 1: with Talicia and live on with her young daughters. As
Speaker 1: someone who has been working on this story for many years,
Speaker 1: I feel very touched by it. And I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know obviously I've been related to everyone. It means a
Speaker 1: lot to share her about and talk about it. Can
Speaker 1: you hear me? Okay, yeah, I can hear you. I
Speaker 1: was checking to see where the kiddos work. How many
Speaker 1: kids do you have? I have fu, you have your
Speaker 1: hands fall. Yes, they're all girls. I actually have one
Speaker 1: named after Aunt Dana, and her name is Hannah Lynn.
Speaker 1: We gave her Hannah after the two Hannah's and Lynn
Speaker 1: after Dana. That's beautiful. So Dana was your great aunt
Speaker 1: and she was able to meet your eldest daughter, Cherokee
Speaker 1: before everything happened. Dana was my aunt. She was Cherokee's
Speaker 1: great aunt. Are your parents? My mother was Dana's sister, Kathy.
Speaker 1: She has two sisters and a brother. Her brother's name
Speaker 1: is James Manley. And then my other aunt, Bobby Joe.
Speaker 1: As a reminder, Talicia's aunt, Bobby Joe Manley is the
Speaker 1: one who discovered the horrific crime scene and called nine
Speaker 1: one one one yes, I y yes, forty um. We
Speaker 1: walked to the no ball. Okay. Her brother Hall said, okay,
Speaker 1: what's your girl? Danny has sir forty seventy seventy forty
Speaker 1: seventy seven, forty seventy seven, okay, forty seventh seventh correct, yes,
Speaker 1: man going on, I fling all over the house. Okay.
Speaker 1: My brother haws and stays room and looks like I've
Speaker 1: beat the hell. I love them Okay, we're gonna blood
Speaker 1: all hearts. Man, can you counting with county? That's then,
Speaker 1: is said town, It's my county. H Okay, okay, I
Speaker 1: need to get out of the house. Thank you driving
Speaker 1: over there. And that's like him running Christ luring Harry
Speaker 1: Rod and sanking Hairy Roman sings in him. Looks like
Speaker 1: the dad think, I think the great sad. Look, I
Speaker 1: don't beat the pop out on them. Okay, if there
Speaker 1: anybody else from the house, can I say? I know? Okay,
Speaker 1: so doors was lost with the god here but on
Speaker 1: her friends teams, and I went in and hit her,
Speaker 1: landing on the floor and went on the house and
Speaker 1: I'm starting right now. Okay, stay out of the house
Speaker 1: the way anybody do her there? Play? Yeah, all right
Speaker 1: about the trauma of that discovery is long lasting. I
Speaker 1: used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe that
Speaker 1: like after everything happened, she just like completely changed. Here
Speaker 1: again is Jeff As a reminder, Bobby Joe Manly is
Speaker 1: Dana Roden's sister, and she discovered the horrific crime scene
Speaker 1: at Chris Senior Roden and Frankie Roden's house. And to
Speaker 1: just kind of put yourself in her shoes. She found
Speaker 1: out that her loved ones were heinously murdered, not by
Speaker 1: word of mouth, but actually by discovering their bloody bodies.
Speaker 1: And an experience like that it changes you forever, How
Speaker 1: could it not. And we did a little research into
Speaker 1: severe trauma like the kind Bobby Joe experienced, and only
Speaker 1: around seven percent of Americans report experiencing an event like this.
Speaker 1: And obviously, even I would say what Bobby Joe went
Speaker 1: through was probably worse than what a lot of those
Speaker 1: seven percent report. It's just unimaginable, and I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone could ever understand what she's dealt with. Here's Jeff
Speaker 1: again speaking with Telicia. To me and Hannah were only
Speaker 1: like six months and fourteen days apart. Oh wow, I
Speaker 1: just turned twenty four. I actually have a picture of
Speaker 1: us on our baby and my baby book in the
Speaker 1: Very Bad She was a year and a half in
Speaker 1: this picture and I was five months. So you guys
Speaker 1: grew up together. They gare rope took. Everybody was pretty
Speaker 1: close her, and my little brother was close to him,
Speaker 1: and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. Everybody used to
Speaker 1: ask me what I thought of Frank Gillis like, listen,
Speaker 1: me and Frankie and Hannah and Christopher and Henry Junior,
Speaker 1: which is my brother, and Heath, which is my other brother.
Speaker 1: I said we was something else, especially around Fourth of July,
Speaker 1: because when Fourth of July came, we wanted to try
Speaker 1: and have Roman candle fights, anything else, so there'd be
Speaker 1: like big family celebrations on these kind of days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he
Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was
Speaker 1: perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He
Speaker 1: shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie
Speaker 1: about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody
Speaker 1: ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how
Speaker 1: to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime.
Speaker 1: He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest
Speaker 1: with your five song right now. I'd spit on him.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and
Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and
Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my
Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always
Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like
Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're
Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away, and I
Speaker 1: can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl,
Speaker 1: you and I both know what it took to just
Speaker 1: get through the day in New York City and get
Speaker 1: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're
Speaker 1: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always measurable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share
Speaker 1: in our twenty two years of friendship. Andy. This has
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Speaker 1: pull up a seat at the best Friend's table as
Speaker 1: we share our most personal and humiliating stories and ask
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Speaker 1: to teenagers. Like many girls, Talicia and Hannah May would
Speaker 1: do it to this hair and makeup and have fun
Speaker 1: just driving around. Me and Hannah May like the long
Speaker 1: destination drives with no idea where it was going. I'm
Speaker 1: just listening to music. What kind of music did she like?
Speaker 1: She was mainly a country girl. Other than that she
Speaker 1: liked Brian Church. I think is his name? She did,
Speaker 1: ay said, a country girl when she was in a jeep.
Speaker 1: She liked to go out, and she liked to go
Speaker 1: money and tell me about Dana. What kind of aunt
Speaker 1: was she? She would take us all clothes shopping for
Speaker 1: school and stuff. When school time came around. Your kids
Speaker 1: are young, do they know about your great aunt and
Speaker 1: what happened. I actually have a book I made in
Speaker 1: memory of them. It's like a photo album book. I
Speaker 1: figured why not keep their memory alive with the children.
Speaker 1: When I was pregnant with Cherokee, Hannah had actually done
Speaker 1: a like a gender reveal with me. She'd done my pictures,
Speaker 1: and then right before I gave birth to Cherokee, she
Speaker 1: had also done my maternity picture. Dana was one of
Speaker 1: the first ones I told that I was pregnant with Cherokee.
Speaker 1: She was so excited and she kept Tommy, Oh, you're
Speaker 1: having a girl. I was like, hey day, and I
Speaker 1: don't know yet. I had went into labor with Cherokee
Speaker 1: on the eighth of March and then I didn't have
Speaker 1: her until the nights, and Dana was there the whole time.
Speaker 1: She pasted the floors and she was like, is she
Speaker 1: ready to get hurt? And Hanname was there when an
Speaker 1: Dana first saw Cherokee. She started crying at first, and
Speaker 1: she looked at me and she was like, she's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: After we brought her home from the hospital, she would
Speaker 1: always want Cherokee to come out and take naps with
Speaker 1: her before she went to work, and she wanted to
Speaker 1: do pictures with Cherokee. She was born twenty fifteen, and
Speaker 1: then Hannah was born, not even a month after they
Speaker 1: were killed. When I went into labor with Hannah, I
Speaker 1: looked at my mom and I said, I wish Anna
Speaker 1: was here, because you know, she was there for the
Speaker 1: first baby, she would want to do be there for
Speaker 1: the second. After I had delivered Hannah, I ended up
Speaker 1: crying because I kept looking at her, and I've kept
Speaker 1: telling Mama, was like, I want to be happy, but
Speaker 1: I'm also kind of sad because you know, it's not
Speaker 1: even been a month to get and we had lost
Speaker 1: family members. How do you deal with that or reconcile
Speaker 1: with wanting to remember but also wanting to live your life.
Speaker 1: When I'm with the girls, I try to teach them
Speaker 1: stuff that like Aunt Dana would have taught them as well.
Speaker 1: Err Key, she knows that if we go to the cemetery,
Speaker 1: Aunt Dana's there, and she'll ask can we go to
Speaker 1: see Aunt Dana, Mommy, And then we'll take her to
Speaker 1: see the grave. We took her just a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago. How do you think that the Manly Road
Speaker 1: and Gilly families will be different now that all this
Speaker 1: has happened. When it first happened, like we was all
Speaker 1: really close with each other, and after the years started
Speaker 1: going out. The only other time we gather is like
Speaker 1: when we want to do like a release or a
Speaker 1: candle fighting for another year of them being dead. Jeff
Speaker 1: asked Talicia if there was anything she could learn from
Speaker 1: this terrible tragedy, and she was reminded of advice that
Speaker 1: her cousin Hannah may gave her. I don't go by words.
Speaker 1: I watched their actions. Hannah would teach me before she
Speaker 1: was murdered. She would tell me, you can't trust their
Speaker 1: words because their words can always be broken. She's like,
Speaker 1: trust their actions. What do you try to take away
Speaker 1: from Dana? As you're a mom now? She would take
Speaker 1: in the kids that wasn't even hers. So everybody tells
Speaker 1: me that I'm just like aunt Dana Cherokee's. She's usually
Speaker 1: a very playful girl. She's like running around playing. There
Speaker 1: was one day but was all sitting outside at night.
Speaker 1: We was around a campfire, and she looked at us
Speaker 1: and she said, Mom, I missed Saint Dana, and I
Speaker 1: wish she was here. So I liked a Cherokee and
Speaker 1: I pointed up at the stars. I said, did you
Speaker 1: see that bright star right there, the brightest one in
Speaker 1: the sky. She said yeah. I said, that's Dan Dana
Speaker 1: watching over you. Well, clearly the Rodents enjoy a strong
Speaker 1: sense of family. There are some dark things that have
Speaker 1: happened to generations of the Rodents that can't be ignored.
Speaker 1: I wonder about you hear the term generational trauma. What
Speaker 1: is your take on generational trauma and how it affects
Speaker 1: your family. The saddest part of this is that only
Speaker 1: in the later years have we begun to even to
Speaker 1: realize generational trauma. For people of that generation, it was
Speaker 1: never considered trauma. It was just considered life. I know
Speaker 1: that's a sad thing to say, but it was just
Speaker 1: considers being able to live through, to fight through. And
Speaker 1: in these days we really do understand trauma so much better.
Speaker 1: But I have to believe that in those days what
Speaker 1: it really meant was As sad as it is to say,
Speaker 1: I think that type of trauma giving from that generational
Speaker 1: on really makes people stronger in a way. The survival
Speaker 1: instinct is just within this family. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: Generational trauma is trauma that isn't just experienced by one person,
Speaker 1: but extends from one generation to the next. And now
Speaker 1: everyone is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific
Speaker 1: populations that are more vulnerable due to their histories, and
Speaker 1: two of those buckets are poverty and violence, which based
Speaker 1: on what we've been told about the Rodent family history,
Speaker 1: it seems that they would be susceptible to this type
Speaker 1: of trauma. Based on our further research, dealing with generational
Speaker 1: trauma is best dealt with through counseling. I recently spoke
Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist who said that the Rodents were really
Speaker 1: emblematic of generational trauma, and they shared a very famous
Speaker 1: example of what that could mean. And there was experiment
Speaker 1: conducted by scientists on mice in a lab and the
Speaker 1: scientists would basically spray perfume near mice and then shock
Speaker 1: the mice. And they would repeat that on a regular basis.
Speaker 1: They would spray their perfume, shock the mice, spray their perfume,
Speaker 1: shock the mice, and then sure enough, eventually, even without
Speaker 1: shocking them. They would just spray the perfume and the
Speaker 1: mouse would physically respond as though it had been shocked.
Speaker 1: Perhaps even more interestingly, those mice eventually had babies of
Speaker 1: their own, and guess what when the scientists sprayed those
Speaker 1: mice with the perfume, they too would physically react like
Speaker 1: they were being shocked, even though they weren't. This would
Speaker 1: be an example of how trauma and sorrow can literally
Speaker 1: be passed down generationally on a cellular level, as if
Speaker 1: it becomes part of our DNA. Let's stop here for
Speaker 1: another break. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he
Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was
Speaker 1: perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He
Speaker 1: shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie
Speaker 1: about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody
Speaker 1: ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how
Speaker 1: to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime.
Speaker 1: He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest
Speaker 1: with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit
Speaker 1: on him. I would call him and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound
Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to talk to incredible guests about important things.
Speaker 1: People like me have been screaming for years. We've got
Speaker 1: to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong,
Speaker 1: what they're doing is evil. They will take things away,
Speaker 1: and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like
Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what
Speaker 1: it took to just get through the day in New
Speaker 1: York City and get home in one piece. And so
Speaker 1: the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and
Speaker 1: what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just
Speaker 1: sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that
Speaker 1: you might think, as Chase said that we're always miserable
Speaker 1: is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly
Speaker 1: noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe and share in our twenty two
Speaker 1: years of friendship. Andy, this has to be the most
Speaker 1: bizarre thing we've ever done. I know, I love it.
Speaker 1: Our podcast My Vagina said, what is a podcast where
Speaker 1: we ask our everyday Vagina listeners to pull up a
Speaker 1: seat at the best Friend's table as we share our
Speaker 1: most personal and humiliating stories and ask questions about women's bodies.
Speaker 1: We are going to discuss all body things like what
Speaker 1: exactly are we supposed to do with our pubs? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, if you could have a heart shaped pube
Speaker 1: that were bedazzled in pink rubies, or perrymenopause. I feel
Speaker 1: right now justified. I'm going to start my own personal movement.
Speaker 1: I'm going to start blaming anything that goes wrong in
Speaker 1: my life on perrymenopause, leg hair too long, perrymau, don't
Speaker 1: have the will to clean, Perry menopause exactly, are whack periods,
Speaker 1: boob issues and so much more. Listen to my Vagina
Speaker 1: said what podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. What Hi, I'm Delia Wild.
Speaker 1: Then I want to invite you to listen to my
Speaker 1: newest podcast. It's called The Oh My God Particle Show
Speaker 1: or OMGPS for short. How you like me always wondering
Speaker 1: about the universal, like what the universe is made of?
Speaker 1: What is in the atmospheres of alien punic? And you know,
Speaker 1: how are we even here to even ask those questions?
Speaker 1: So road Trip I want to get some answers directly
Speaker 1: from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles
Speaker 1: with energies that naturally existed when the universe was about
Speaker 1: a trillions of a second old. I found scientists from
Speaker 1: all over the world. Everybody is working together to get
Speaker 1: their experiment working. I've got to Talktor brilliant astrophysicist who
Speaker 1: collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Listen to
Speaker 1: The Oh My God Particle Show on the I Heard
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Here again our anonymous road and Family member talking about
Speaker 1: Chris Senior's mother, Geneva. They wheel came through. When this
Speaker 1: is longer on and we're remembering back, and they will
Speaker 1: come out on the other side with their chins up.
Speaker 1: No matter what happens, no matter who's locked up for what,
Speaker 1: no matter who goes to prison, Geneva will walk with
Speaker 1: her head up and she will still be smiling. She
Speaker 1: will smile. And I can only imagine the pain and
Speaker 1: the tolls took on her, you know, with what happened,
Speaker 1: But she will survive. That's just in her bloodline. She
Speaker 1: will come through this. I don't think there's anything that
Speaker 1: any of us could learn from this. It's just an awful,
Speaker 1: terrible thing. How would you want your family to be remembered?
Speaker 1: What's the legacy you being remembered a certain way probably
Speaker 1: isn't as high on the list for my family or
Speaker 1: my cousin. We would just like to know that we
Speaker 1: did the best we could while we were here, and
Speaker 1: if that means some type of legacy was left, then fantastic.
Speaker 1: But if it doesn't, it still doesn't matter. We carved
Speaker 1: our place out of this world. We know within ourselves
Speaker 1: that you know, we are survivors, and for lack of
Speaker 1: a better term. We are fighters, you know, we will
Speaker 1: fight for what we believe, and that is in family
Speaker 1: in current times, the only thing, and this is sad
Speaker 1: to say that the world even knows the name wrote
Speaker 1: and would be because of a terrible tragedy. I can
Speaker 1: say absolutely that we don't want to know him for
Speaker 1: just then, have you been following the court cases or
Speaker 1: the legal proceedings, and if so, what's your take on them.
Speaker 1: My take on it is that this family was just
Speaker 1: a strange and terrible, small cult like family. This is
Speaker 1: just me, my own personal opinion, and no matter what,
Speaker 1: I feel like, they were guided by one in the family.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying this person made them do it.
Speaker 1: I'm saying they were guided by that person. Then we'll
Speaker 1: do absolutely anything for this person. And somehow it went
Speaker 1: from not killing people to killing people. And I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened during that. I know that during the
Speaker 1: plead when two of them played out, one claiming that
Speaker 1: he didn't shoot anyone and the other one I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure what he's claiming. It's gonna be pretty interesting
Speaker 1: of what happens there. But I just believe it was
Speaker 1: a small cult family that just got ideas flowing in
Speaker 1: the kitchen with baskets on the wall, and these ideas
Speaker 1: just kept going and going and going until there was
Speaker 1: no turning back. Do you think Angela Wagner was kind
Speaker 1: of the one at the humble of all us? I
Speaker 1: feel like that, and I could absolutely be wrong, but
Speaker 1: I feel like she was that type that she would
Speaker 1: be the one to just kind of corner them in
Speaker 1: and you know, here's what we're doing, guys, and this
Speaker 1: is what we need to do, guys. And then you know,
Speaker 1: and that comes from what I've read and just the
Speaker 1: evidence that I've seen. I'm sure that there's mountains of
Speaker 1: evidence that I haven't seen or heard from, and as
Speaker 1: I shouldn't because that's you know, that should be in court.
Speaker 1: But that's where I am right now with it, which
Speaker 1: it could change the next day. But I feel like
Speaker 1: that she kind of kept the strong arm on these
Speaker 1: boys for all these years, and it became so normal
Speaker 1: to them that if mom says X, then X it
Speaker 1: is right. That does seem to be what we're caring
Speaker 1: And do you feel a justice is going to be served?
Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as justice in this situation?
Speaker 1: I am a great believer in justice, I really am.
Speaker 1: I absolutely feel that justice will be served, and I
Speaker 1: believe wholeheartedly in our justice system. I'm not hoping for
Speaker 1: anything one way or the other. I'm not hoping for
Speaker 1: this sentence or that sentence. I have faith in our
Speaker 1: justice system, and I believe in the end the powers
Speaker 1: to be we'll see that justice is done. This was
Speaker 1: a family and they had every right to walk on
Speaker 1: this earth with the rest of us, and someone took
Speaker 1: that from them. And everyone needs to know that these
Speaker 1: people lived, and these people had lives, and they loved
Speaker 1: and they worked, and they are so much more than
Speaker 1: what we're going to see in the years to come.
Speaker 1: And it can't be helped. I know that the trial
Speaker 1: and the people on trial would be in the limelight,
Speaker 1: and that just is as it has to be. But
Speaker 1: it is very important to me that the world knows
Speaker 1: that they were alive, and they were living, and they
Speaker 1: would loved, and they hadn't children. I just don't want
Speaker 1: it forgotten that these were people. More on that next time.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the Pikes and Massacre, listen to our
Speaker 1: other hit series Crazy and Love. New episodes there every
Speaker 1: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and
Speaker 1: case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Pikes and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Ti music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Pikes and Massacre is a production of
Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 1: and it is time to find a husband. There were
Speaker 1: four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors.
Speaker 1: One of them was a spot Barrenmout. On paper, he
Speaker 1: was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He
Speaker 1: choked and to the point she went unconscious. I would
Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed
Speaker 1: my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression,
Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily.
Speaker 1: For years have been on the road, playing shows and
Speaker 1: seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the
Speaker 1: stage who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten
Speaker 1: cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live
Speaker 1: music venues and culture of a new American city. With
Speaker 1: each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of
Speaker 1: venues you want to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver,
Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm Freedom and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last
Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest
Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people.
Speaker 1: Rob mclenny the people of Wrexham. I grew up exactly
Speaker 1: like them. Check out the R t instr Ram Show
Speaker 1: that is a R D h I and s R
Speaker 1: I R a M show. Listen to the rt instri
Speaker 1: Ram Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.