1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: spent the last twenty years building and working at some 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. We worked with 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. When I see the people 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: D HI and s R I R A M show. 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, 32 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 35 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You live 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: to try to defend your family, or you'd live to 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: try to defend people if you can. It's not something 38 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: I could put my finger on, but it's just inside 39 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: of us. I would wait until hill of bullets for 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: somebody in my family to this day, and I don't 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: know why but it would, and everybody in my family 42 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: would did the same. We just would. This is the 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County season three, Episode eight, 44 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: Manner of Life. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at 45 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: Katie's Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. So far 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: the season, we've heard a lot about recent core proceedings 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: between the Wagoners and the prosecute fusion that will shape 48 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: upcoming trials. They've covered everything from where the trials will 49 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: be held, what evidence will be allowed into testimony, and 50 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: who might be charged with what. All of this leads 51 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: to what we hope will be some small form of 52 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: justice for the Roden, Gillie, and Manly families who lost 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: the unthinkable. When the Masaker initially happens six years ago, 54 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the remaining family members spoke publicly. Not 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: so in recent years, however, we've made contact with some 56 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: people who want to share their memories of their family. 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: Here's Jeff speaking with a Roden family member who reached 58 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: out to us. They've asked us not to use their name. 59 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm curious how you found us and what made you 60 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: contact us. Now I drive a lot on the road, 61 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: and I listened to podcasts everywhere. I happened upon the 62 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Pike and Masker, which is part of my extended family. 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: So I wanted to listen to it, and I was 64 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: really impressed with the respect that was given to the family, 65 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: and so a friend of mine and myself we eagerly 66 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: wait every week to hear it, and so I just 67 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: commented on it, you know, thanking you all for being 68 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: respectful to the family. What is that experience like losing 69 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: loved ones but then losing it in a way where 70 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: other people are kind of a part of your experience. 71 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: It'd be a strange thing to divine for you because 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: we would see each other a few times a year 73 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: at family unions and what have you. So it was 74 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: a giant shop man. I hate to say this, but 75 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't as hurting to me as I know it 76 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: was to a lot of the very close family members. 77 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: And it's hard to describe a law such a loss 78 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: of a large chunk of a family. When you first 79 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: heard the podcast, what was your thought? I kind of 80 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: got interested in yours because you all would give the 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: facts as they were, and then you would talk about 82 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: the possibilities of how that would make people feel. So 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: that was very interesting to me. These are not just 84 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: people who were removed from this earth. They were people. 85 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: They were real people. You actually going after trying to 86 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: bring real life people to this is pretty exciting to me. 87 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: I mean, not making them as victims alone. You're making 88 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: them as people, and that's appreciated. Jeff asked what growing 89 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: up as a member of the Roden family was like 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: he first spoke about Geneva Roden as a reminder, Geneva 91 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: is Chris Roden seniors and Kenneth's mother, Frankie Hannah and 92 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: little Chris's grandmother. Growing up, especially in my younger years, 93 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: we would go visit Geneva and her family, and the 94 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: things I remember the most. When you met Geneva, you 95 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: were guaranteed a smile and always a hug, and whatever 96 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: they had, whether it be a watermelon or a piece 97 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of cake or whatever it was, was shared with you. 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: When you got there, you just became one of the kids. 99 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: Geneva just was always the sweetest thing ever was and 100 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: would just hug you to death. About three times a 101 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: year our family would get together and we would just 102 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: pile in a car and we would ride and see relatives, 103 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: and Geneva lived close to other relatives, so we would 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: just kind of make a big round trip into Ohio 105 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: and then back into Kentucky. We would spend two or 106 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: three days up there, just filing up wherever we could. 107 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: And our family was that way. If you went to 108 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: their house, they just made room for you. It didn't matter. 109 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: You just had a great time, and you go swimming, 110 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and you do this and that. We didn't have Facebook 111 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: or things like that in those days. It sounds like 112 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: you like a nice way to grow up. It was, 113 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: it really was. Immediately after the murders, Geneva spoke publicly 114 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: about the unimatchinable loss she was facing. On April twenty second, 115 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, in one single night, she lost her sons, 116 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior and Kenneth Roden, her grandchildren Frankie, Hannah 117 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: May and Little Chris Roden, and her nephew Gary. Her word, 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: it's where a stark juxtaposition to the idyllic glafe her 119 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: family once lived. I'd like to say that I'm the 120 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: mother Christopher Senior and the mother of Kenneth, and from 121 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: my mother's heart that I hurt so bad inside from 122 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: the day. That night I helmed out it's there's someone 123 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: out there that knows anything about what happened with the 124 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: please please come forward. There has to be so it 125 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: was all both like the world had ended when I 126 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: found out about the family that they took out, my grandchildren, 127 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: Mike's daughters, all my nephew, and my grandson, my girlfriend. 128 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: There was eight members that they took that day and 129 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: they hurt them, blew away from a mother. I think 130 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: about a day night, I lose a lot of sleep 131 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: board and still what trying to go on the rest 132 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: of my children is going to so much listen to 133 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: brothers the same day. I would have never dreamed that's 134 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: something my guess what had happened here Stephanie and Jeff 135 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: speaking about Geneva Rodin. Geneva Roden is nearly eighty years old, 136 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: and it's impossible to imagine what she deals with every day, 137 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: not only the court proceedings, but also being there for 138 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: her family because there's still many other family members who 139 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: rely on her and lean on her as the Rodan matriarch. 140 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: Several years ago, when we were first making the documentary 141 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: for Oxygen about the Roden murders. Jeff and I actually 142 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: went to the nursing home that Geneva resided at. At 143 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: the time, we actually thought she was a distant cousin 144 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: to the Rodens, and we didn't realize until we got 145 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: there that she was actually Chris Senior's mother and that 146 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: she had lost her children and her grandchildren, And ultimately 147 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: she was uncomfortable speaking on camera, which we of course 148 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: completely understood. It was all just way too raw for her, 149 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: and her level of grief was frankly unimaginable. Geneva is 150 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: really an example of a person who's frankly inspiring. You know, 151 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: We've said this many times since then. When you meet 152 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: another human being who has experienced such deep pain and 153 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: she can continue to push on and continue to be 154 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: there for her loved ones and show up to court 155 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: relentlessly and push through, then surely the rest of us 156 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: can push through whatever is stressing us in our lives. 157 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: And she's really offered us a lot of perspective. I 158 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: share this really simply to say, the level of grief 159 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: that this family has experienced is incredibly far reaching. Geneva 160 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: Wrotan and other members for her family, I would imagine 161 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: the catalysts for them wanting to speak out is to 162 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: bring attention to their family's case and not just have 163 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: to be about the accused Wagner family and really remind 164 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: everyone that the victims, the Rodents in this case, were 165 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: real human beings who were not just what happened to 166 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: them in twenty sixteen. It's so true. And also, you know, 167 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: oftentimes when we talk about crime, the victims just become 168 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: a footnote. It's always about the manner of death and 169 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: less about the manner of life. And this is another 170 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: example that you know, Geneva is a living and breathing 171 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: woman who has had her entire family wiped out, and 172 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: whoever is responsible for that should pay. Jeff continued his 173 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: conversation with the Rodent family member. Where Chris Senior and 174 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: Garry and Kenneth were they around? Did you see them? 175 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: They were about probably eight or nine, maybe teen years younger. Man. 176 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: I remember Chris Junior and Kenneth and them. They were 177 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: wandering around just doing what kids do. They played with us, 178 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: kids have always played together. We really didn't keep in 179 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: contact after you know, outside of family unions, life kept 180 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: getting in a way for everyone, and that's just the 181 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: sad fact of the way was they were just beating 182 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: their way through this world, just like everyone else. To believe. 183 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: That's why this thing was more shocking than one would think. 184 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: It became clear that there were obvious parallels between Chris 185 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: Roden Senior's upbringing and how he, alongside his wife Dana, 186 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: raised his own family. They were just people, They were 187 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: just good old Americans. She was the daughter of a 188 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: man named Tipp who lost his life in a little 189 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: place called Jonesborough, Ohio. He was logging. An attractor come 190 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: back on him and killed him. And then not too 191 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: long after that, she lost her mother. That left Geneva 192 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: with raising her own siblings. After losing her mother and father, 193 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: she got married and they had children, and this happened 194 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: at the same time, and that she had this entire 195 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: group of people, her siblings and her own children that 196 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: she was raising. So that takes an immense amount of 197 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: strength to do. Giving the way the world is in. 198 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: Geneva didn't have a whole lot to get through this world, 199 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: but she made it. She was a finer hen and 200 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: she raised them, and she raised fine people. Geneva's father 201 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: was one of eight or ten brothers who grew up 202 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: down in Kentucky. They lived in poverty, but it's not 203 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: a poverty that most people would understand. During the wintertime, 204 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: they didn't have shoes. They didn't even have leather to 205 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: put on their feet. They would wrap rags or whatever 206 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: they could find around their feet just to get to school. 207 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: They went to school in a one room schoolhouse on 208 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: a little place called Grassy Creek. There was no way 209 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: to make a living for their father, James. That survival 210 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: instinct was passed down through through Geneva in most of 211 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: the family, and her dad was an amazing man, even 212 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: long before there were mechanics. He would find old cars 213 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: or tractors and make a run, and then he would 214 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: trade him for stuff that didn't run. Now, in that 215 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: trade he would get a little extra money which would 216 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: go to his family and they might be able to 217 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: buy a little something, a little bit of food. I've 218 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: heard the Rodens being super resourceful with cars and good 219 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: with your hands. I've heard that about Chris Junior being 220 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: fiercely protective of one another and going to bath for 221 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: each other. It's the same stuff, and it's a little 222 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: easier for me than it then it would be for you. 223 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: Of course, because I know the family. But that is 224 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: very interesting that you can draw a line from the 225 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds to her children and see similarities, like 226 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: Chris Junior would just jump under the hood of a 227 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: car and be able to fix it. I can see 228 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: those similarities and being able to defend each other. I 229 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: could see that going all the way back to that 230 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: side of the family. I just want to clarify by 231 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: Chris Junior, you mean Chris Roden sor yes, he's Chris 232 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: Junior to you, because there's another Chris. Yes. Jeff also 233 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: recently had a phone conversation with Talicia, Dana and Chris 234 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: Senior's niece and Hannah, Frankie and little Chris's cousin Will 235 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: gone more than six years now, the Rodents are present 236 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: with Talicia and live on with her young daughters. As 237 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: someone who has been working on this story for many years, 238 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: I feel very touched by it. And I'm sure you 239 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: know obviously I've been related to everyone. It means a 240 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: lot to share her about and talk about it. Can 241 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: you hear me? Okay, yeah, I can hear you. I 242 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: was checking to see where the kiddos work. How many 243 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: kids do you have? I have fu, you have your 244 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: hands fall. Yes, they're all girls. I actually have one 245 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: named after Aunt Dana, and her name is Hannah Lynn. 246 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: We gave her Hannah after the two Hannah's and Lynn 247 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: after Dana. That's beautiful. So Dana was your great aunt 248 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: and she was able to meet your eldest daughter, Cherokee 249 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: before everything happened. Dana was my aunt. She was Cherokee's 250 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: great aunt. Are your parents? My mother was Dana's sister, Kathy. 251 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: She has two sisters and a brother. Her brother's name 252 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: is James Manley. And then my other aunt, Bobby Joe. 253 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: As a reminder, Talicia's aunt, Bobby Joe Manley is the 254 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: one who discovered the horrific crime scene and called nine 255 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: one one one yes, I y yes, forty um. We 256 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: walked to the no ball. Okay. Her brother Hall said, okay, 257 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: what's your girl? Danny has sir forty seventy seventy forty 258 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: seventy seven, forty seventy seven, okay, forty seventh seventh correct, yes, 259 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: man going on, I fling all over the house. Okay. 260 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: My brother haws and stays room and looks like I've 261 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: beat the hell. I love them Okay, we're gonna blood 262 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: all hearts. Man, can you counting with county? That's then, 263 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: is said town, It's my county. H Okay, okay, I 264 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: need to get out of the house. Thank you driving 265 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: over there. And that's like him running Christ luring Harry 266 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: Rod and sanking Hairy Roman sings in him. Looks like 267 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: the dad think, I think the great sad. Look, I 268 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: don't beat the pop out on them. Okay, if there 269 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: anybody else from the house, can I say? I know? Okay, 270 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: so doors was lost with the god here but on 271 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: her friends teams, and I went in and hit her, 272 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: landing on the floor and went on the house and 273 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm starting right now. Okay, stay out of the house 274 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: the way anybody do her there? Play? Yeah, all right 275 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: about the trauma of that discovery is long lasting. I 276 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe that 277 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: like after everything happened, she just like completely changed. Here 278 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: again is Jeff As a reminder, Bobby Joe Manly is 279 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: Dana Roden's sister, and she discovered the horrific crime scene 280 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: at Chris Senior Roden and Frankie Roden's house. And to 281 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: just kind of put yourself in her shoes. She found 282 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: out that her loved ones were heinously murdered, not by 283 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: word of mouth, but actually by discovering their bloody bodies. 284 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: And an experience like that it changes you forever, How 285 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: could it not. And we did a little research into 286 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: severe trauma like the kind Bobby Joe experienced, and only 287 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: around seven percent of Americans report experiencing an event like this. 288 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: And obviously, even I would say what Bobby Joe went 289 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: through was probably worse than what a lot of those 290 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: seven percent report. It's just unimaginable, and I don't think 291 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: anyone could ever understand what she's dealt with. Here's Jeff 292 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: again speaking with Telicia. To me and Hannah were only 293 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: like six months and fourteen days apart. Oh wow, I 294 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: just turned twenty four. I actually have a picture of 295 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: us on our baby and my baby book in the 296 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: Very Bad She was a year and a half in 297 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: this picture and I was five months. So you guys 298 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: grew up together. They gare rope took. Everybody was pretty 299 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: close her, and my little brother was close to him, 300 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. Everybody used to 301 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: ask me what I thought of Frank Gillis like, listen, 302 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: me and Frankie and Hannah and Christopher and Henry Junior, 303 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: which is my brother, and Heath, which is my other brother. 304 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: I said we was something else, especially around Fourth of July, 305 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: because when Fourth of July came, we wanted to try 306 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: and have Roman candle fights, anything else, so there'd be 307 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: like big family celebrations on these kind of days. Yeah, 308 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: we're going to take a break. We'll be back in 309 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a 310 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties 311 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most 312 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he 313 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was 314 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He 315 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie 316 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody 317 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how 318 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. 319 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest 320 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: with your five song right now. I'd spit on him. 321 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 322 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. I will always hound you and 323 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the 324 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. 325 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and 326 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my 327 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always 328 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like 329 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch 330 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're 331 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: doing is evil. They will take things away, and I 332 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, 333 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: you and I both know what it took to just 334 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: get through the day in New York City and get 335 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're 336 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 337 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 338 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 339 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: that we're always measurable is because people are constantly attacking 340 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne 341 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 342 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share 343 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: in our twenty two years of friendship. Andy. This has 344 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: to be the most bizarre thing we've ever done. I know, 345 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: I love it. Our podcast My Vagina said what is 346 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: a podcast where we ask our everyday Vagina listeners to 347 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: pull up a seat at the best Friend's table as 348 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: we share our most personal and humiliating stories and ask 349 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: questions about women's bodies. We are going to discuss all 350 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: body things like what exactly are we supposed to do 351 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: with our pubs? Oh my gosh, if you could have 352 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: a heart shaped pube that were bedazzled in pink rubies. Perrymenopause. 353 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: I feel right now justified. I'm going to start my 354 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: own personal movement. I'm going to start blaming anything that 355 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: goes wrong in my life on perrymenopause, leg here too long, 356 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: Perry don't have the will to clean? Perrymnopad exactly? Are 357 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: whack periods? Boob issues? And so much more. Listen to 358 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: My Vagina Said What Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 359 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts what they're more 360 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: identity threats than you realize. Even if you monitor your credit, 361 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: only a little personal info needs to leak out, like 362 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 1: your social Security number or password, or you did any 363 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: coming a victimist. LifeLock alerts you to threats you can miss. 364 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: If your identity is stolen, a dedicated US based restoration 365 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: specialist will work to fix it. No one can prevent 366 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: all identity theft or monitor all transactions, but everyone can 367 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: save up to twenty five percent off their first year. 368 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: Go to LifeLock dot com slash aware as the grown 369 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: to teenagers. Like many girls, Talicia and Hannah May would 370 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: do it to this hair and makeup and have fun 371 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: just driving around. Me and Hannah May like the long 372 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: destination drives with no idea where it was going. I'm 373 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: just listening to music. What kind of music did she like? 374 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: She was mainly a country girl. Other than that she 375 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: liked Brian Church. I think is his name? She did, 376 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: ay said, a country girl when she was in a jeep. 377 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: She liked to go out, and she liked to go 378 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: money and tell me about Dana. What kind of aunt 379 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: was she? She would take us all clothes shopping for 380 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: school and stuff. When school time came around. Your kids 381 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: are young, do they know about your great aunt and 382 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: what happened. I actually have a book I made in 383 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: memory of them. It's like a photo album book. I 384 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: figured why not keep their memory alive with the children. 385 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: When I was pregnant with Cherokee, Hannah had actually done 386 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: a like a gender reveal with me. She'd done my pictures, 387 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: and then right before I gave birth to Cherokee, she 388 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: had also done my maternity picture. Dana was one of 389 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: the first ones I told that I was pregnant with Cherokee. 390 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: She was so excited and she kept Tommy, Oh, you're 391 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: having a girl. I was like, hey day, and I 392 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: don't know yet. I had went into labor with Cherokee 393 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: on the eighth of March and then I didn't have 394 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: her until the nights, and Dana was there the whole time. 395 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: She pasted the floors and she was like, is she 396 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: ready to get hurt? And Hanname was there when an 397 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: Dana first saw Cherokee. She started crying at first, and 398 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: she looked at me and she was like, she's so beautiful. 399 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: After we brought her home from the hospital, she would 400 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: always want Cherokee to come out and take naps with 401 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: her before she went to work, and she wanted to 402 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: do pictures with Cherokee. She was born twenty fifteen, and 403 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: then Hannah was born, not even a month after they 404 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: were killed. When I went into labor with Hannah, I 405 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: looked at my mom and I said, I wish Anna 406 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: was here, because you know, she was there for the 407 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: first baby, she would want to do be there for 408 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: the second. After I had delivered Hannah, I ended up 409 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: crying because I kept looking at her, and I've kept 410 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: telling Mama, was like, I want to be happy, but 411 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm also kind of sad because you know, it's not 412 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: even been a month to get and we had lost 413 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: family members. How do you deal with that or reconcile 414 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: with wanting to remember but also wanting to live your life. 415 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: When I'm with the girls, I try to teach them 416 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: stuff that like Aunt Dana would have taught them as well. 417 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: Err Key, she knows that if we go to the cemetery, 418 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: Aunt Dana's there, and she'll ask can we go to 419 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: see Aunt Dana, Mommy, And then we'll take her to 420 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: see the grave. We took her just a couple of 421 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: weeks ago. How do you think that the Manly Road 422 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: and Gilly families will be different now that all this 423 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: has happened. When it first happened, like we was all 424 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: really close with each other, and after the years started 425 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: going out. The only other time we gather is like 426 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: when we want to do like a release or a 427 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: candle fighting for another year of them being dead. Jeff 428 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: asked Talicia if there was anything she could learn from 429 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: this terrible tragedy, and she was reminded of advice that 430 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: her cousin Hannah may gave her. I don't go by words. 431 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: I watched their actions. Hannah would teach me before she 432 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: was murdered. She would tell me, you can't trust their 433 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: words because their words can always be broken. She's like, 434 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: trust their actions. What do you try to take away 435 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: from Dana? As you're a mom now? She would take 436 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: in the kids that wasn't even hers. So everybody tells 437 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: me that I'm just like aunt Dana Cherokee's. She's usually 438 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: a very playful girl. She's like running around playing. There 439 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: was one day but was all sitting outside at night. 440 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: We was around a campfire, and she looked at us 441 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: and she said, Mom, I missed Saint Dana, and I 442 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: wish she was here. So I liked a Cherokee and 443 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: I pointed up at the stars. I said, did you 444 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: see that bright star right there, the brightest one in 445 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: the sky. She said yeah. I said, that's Dan Dana 446 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: watching over you. Well, clearly the Rodents enjoy a strong 447 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: sense of family. There are some dark things that have 448 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: happened to generations of the Rodents that can't be ignored. 449 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: I wonder about you hear the term generational trauma. What 450 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: is your take on generational trauma and how it affects 451 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: your family. The saddest part of this is that only 452 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: in the later years have we begun to even to 453 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: realize generational trauma. For people of that generation, it was 454 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: never considered trauma. It was just considered life. I know 455 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: that's a sad thing to say, but it was just 456 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: considers being able to live through, to fight through. And 457 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: in these days we really do understand trauma so much better. 458 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: But I have to believe that in those days what 459 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: it really meant was As sad as it is to say, 460 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: I think that type of trauma giving from that generational 461 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: on really makes people stronger in a way. The survival 462 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: instinct is just within this family. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 463 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: Generational trauma is trauma that isn't just experienced by one person, 464 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: but extends from one generation to the next. And now 465 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: everyone is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific 466 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: populations that are more vulnerable due to their histories, and 467 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: two of those buckets are poverty and violence, which based 468 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: on what we've been told about the Rodent family history, 469 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: it seems that they would be susceptible to this type 470 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: of trauma. Based on our further research, dealing with generational 471 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: trauma is best dealt with through counseling. I recently spoke 472 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist who said that the Rodents were really 473 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: emblematic of generational trauma, and they shared a very famous 474 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: example of what that could mean. And there was experiment 475 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: conducted by scientists on mice in a lab and the 476 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: scientists would basically spray perfume near mice and then shock 477 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,479 Speaker 1: the mice. And they would repeat that on a regular basis. 478 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: They would spray their perfume, shock the mice, spray their perfume, 479 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: shock the mice, and then sure enough, eventually, even without 480 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: shocking them. They would just spray the perfume and the 481 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: mouse would physically respond as though it had been shocked. 482 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Perhaps even more interestingly, those mice eventually had babies of 483 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: their own, and guess what when the scientists sprayed those 484 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: mice with the perfume, they too would physically react like 485 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: they were being shocked, even though they weren't. This would 486 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,479 Speaker 1: be an example of how trauma and sorrow can literally 487 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: be passed down generationally on a cellular level, as if 488 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: it becomes part of our DNA. Let's stop here for 489 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: another break. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a 490 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties 491 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most 492 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he 493 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was 494 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He 495 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie 496 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody 497 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how 498 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. 499 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest 500 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit 501 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: on him. I would call him and I would say, 502 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound 503 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends 504 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get 505 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 506 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 507 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 508 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: always time to talk to incredible guests about important things. 509 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: People like me have been screaming for years. We've got 510 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, 511 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: what they're doing is evil. They will take things away, 512 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like 513 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what 514 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: it took to just get through the day in New 515 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: York City and get home in one piece. And so 516 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and 517 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just 518 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that 519 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: you might think, as Chase said that we're always miserable 520 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly 521 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the 522 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. 523 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe and share in our twenty two 524 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: years of friendship. Andy, this has to be the most 525 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: bizarre thing we've ever done. I know, I love it. 526 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: Our podcast My Vagina said, what is a podcast where 527 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: we ask our everyday Vagina listeners to pull up a 528 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: seat at the best Friend's table as we share our 529 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: most personal and humiliating stories and ask questions about women's bodies. 530 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: We are going to discuss all body things like what 531 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: exactly are we supposed to do with our pubs? Oh 532 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: my gosh, if you could have a heart shaped pube 533 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: that were bedazzled in pink rubies, or perrymenopause. I feel 534 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: right now justified. I'm going to start my own personal movement. 535 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to start blaming anything that goes wrong in 536 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: my life on perrymenopause, leg hair too long, perrymau, don't 537 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: have the will to clean, Perry menopause exactly, are whack periods, 538 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: boob issues and so much more. Listen to my Vagina 539 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: said what podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or 540 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. What Hi, I'm Delia Wild. 541 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: Then I want to invite you to listen to my 542 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: newest podcast. It's called The Oh My God Particle Show 543 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: or OMGPS for short. How you like me always wondering 544 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: about the universal, like what the universe is made of? 545 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: What is in the atmospheres of alien punic? And you know, 546 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: how are we even here to even ask those questions? 547 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: So road Trip I want to get some answers directly 548 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles 549 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: with energies that naturally existed when the universe was about 550 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: a trillions of a second old. I found scientists from 551 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: all over the world. Everybody is working together to get 552 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: their experiment working. I've got to Talktor brilliant astrophysicist who 553 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Listen to 554 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: The Oh My God Particle Show on the I Heard 555 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 556 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: Here again our anonymous road and Family member talking about 557 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: Chris Senior's mother, Geneva. They wheel came through. When this 558 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: is longer on and we're remembering back, and they will 559 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: come out on the other side with their chins up. 560 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: No matter what happens, no matter who's locked up for what, 561 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: no matter who goes to prison, Geneva will walk with 562 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: her head up and she will still be smiling. She 563 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: will smile. And I can only imagine the pain and 564 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: the tolls took on her, you know, with what happened, 565 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: But she will survive. That's just in her bloodline. She 566 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: will come through this. I don't think there's anything that 567 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: any of us could learn from this. It's just an awful, 568 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: terrible thing. How would you want your family to be remembered? 569 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: What's the legacy you being remembered a certain way probably 570 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: isn't as high on the list for my family or 571 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: my cousin. We would just like to know that we 572 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: did the best we could while we were here, and 573 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: if that means some type of legacy was left, then fantastic. 574 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: But if it doesn't, it still doesn't matter. We carved 575 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: our place out of this world. We know within ourselves 576 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: that you know, we are survivors, and for lack of 577 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: a better term. We are fighters, you know, we will 578 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: fight for what we believe, and that is in family 579 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: in current times, the only thing, and this is sad 580 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: to say that the world even knows the name wrote 581 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: and would be because of a terrible tragedy. I can 582 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: say absolutely that we don't want to know him for 583 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: just then, have you been following the court cases or 584 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: the legal proceedings, and if so, what's your take on them. 585 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: My take on it is that this family was just 586 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: a strange and terrible, small cult like family. This is 587 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: just me, my own personal opinion, and no matter what, 588 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: I feel like, they were guided by one in the family. 589 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying this person made them do it. 590 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying they were guided by that person. Then we'll 591 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: do absolutely anything for this person. And somehow it went 592 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: from not killing people to killing people. And I don't 593 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: know what happened during that. I know that during the 594 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: plead when two of them played out, one claiming that 595 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: he didn't shoot anyone and the other one I'm not 596 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: even sure what he's claiming. It's gonna be pretty interesting 597 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: of what happens there. But I just believe it was 598 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: a small cult family that just got ideas flowing in 599 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: the kitchen with baskets on the wall, and these ideas 600 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: just kept going and going and going until there was 601 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: no turning back. Do you think Angela Wagner was kind 602 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: of the one at the humble of all us? I 603 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: feel like that, and I could absolutely be wrong, but 604 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: I feel like she was that type that she would 605 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: be the one to just kind of corner them in 606 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: and you know, here's what we're doing, guys, and this 607 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: is what we need to do, guys. And then you know, 608 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: and that comes from what I've read and just the 609 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: evidence that I've seen. I'm sure that there's mountains of 610 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: evidence that I haven't seen or heard from, and as 611 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,439 Speaker 1: I shouldn't because that's you know, that should be in court. 612 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: But that's where I am right now with it, which 613 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: it could change the next day. But I feel like 614 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: that she kind of kept the strong arm on these 615 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: boys for all these years, and it became so normal 616 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: to them that if mom says X, then X it 617 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: is right. That does seem to be what we're caring 618 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: And do you feel a justice is going to be served? 619 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as justice in this situation? 620 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: I am a great believer in justice, I really am. 621 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: I absolutely feel that justice will be served, and I 622 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: believe wholeheartedly in our justice system. I'm not hoping for 623 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: anything one way or the other. I'm not hoping for 624 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: this sentence or that sentence. I have faith in our 625 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: justice system, and I believe in the end the powers 626 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: to be we'll see that justice is done. This was 627 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: a family and they had every right to walk on 628 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: this earth with the rest of us, and someone took 629 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: that from them. And everyone needs to know that these 630 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: people lived, and these people had lives, and they loved 631 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: and they worked, and they are so much more than 632 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: what we're going to see in the years to come. 633 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: And it can't be helped. I know that the trial 634 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: and the people on trial would be in the limelight, 635 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: and that just is as it has to be. But 636 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: it is very important to me that the world knows 637 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: that they were alive, and they were living, and they 638 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 1: would loved, and they hadn't children. I just don't want 639 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: it forgotten that these were people. More on that next time. 640 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the Pikes and Massacre, listen to our 641 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: other hit series Crazy and Love. New episodes there every 642 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and 643 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 644 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: The Pikes and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 645 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 646 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: by Jeff Ti music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by 647 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Pikes and Massacre is a production of 648 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 649 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 650 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a 651 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, 652 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: and it is time to find a husband. There were 653 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. 654 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: One of them was a spot Barrenmout. On paper, he 655 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He 656 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,479 Speaker 1: choked and to the point she went unconscious. I would 657 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed 658 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the 659 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 660 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 661 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 662 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 663 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, 664 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race 665 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 666 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 667 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. 668 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: For years have been on the road, playing shows and 669 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the 670 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: stage who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten 671 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live 672 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: music venues and culture of a new American city. With 673 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of 674 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: venues you want to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver, 675 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the 676 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Right, 677 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: I'm Freedom and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last 678 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest 679 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. 680 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: Rob mclenny the people of Wrexham. I grew up exactly 681 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: like them. Check out the R t instr Ram Show 682 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: that is a R D h I and s R 683 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: I R a M show. Listen to the rt instri 684 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 1: Ram Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 685 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.