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Speaker 1: Welcome the strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast about the business

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Speaker 1: of media and entertainment. I'm Shirley Halprin, Executive Editor of Music.

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Speaker 1: In April eighteen, carry And Marshall was named Chief Operating

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Speaker 1: Officer of Warner Chapel, making her one of the top

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Speaker 1: executives in the highly specialized world of music publishing. She

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Speaker 1: arrived from a small indie called Songs Music Publishing, which

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Speaker 1: was itself a powerhouse. Over the course of just twelve years, Songs,

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Speaker 1: where Carryan was partner, signed Lord, The Weekend, Diplow, D J. Mustard,

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Speaker 1: and many others. It was sold to Cobal in seventeen

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Speaker 1: for a hundred fifty million dollars. In her role at Songs,

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Speaker 1: carry On oversaw the creative licensing staff, responsible for placing

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Speaker 1: compositions by the company's writers in film, television, commercial, video games,

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Speaker 1: and other forms of visual media. It was an extension

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Speaker 1: of previous film and TV related roles that she'd held

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Speaker 1: at Universal and DreamWorks Music Publishing. A year into carry

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Speaker 1: Ann's position at Warner Chapel, she added co chair to

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Speaker 1: her title, sharing the top job with former Sony A

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Speaker 1: TV President of Worldwide Creative Guy Moot long based in

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Speaker 1: the UK. Guy Moot came to Warner Chapel with thirty

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Speaker 1: years of experience under his belt, a veteran of E

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Speaker 1: M I, which would be acquired by Sony a TV

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Speaker 1: in His songwriter signings have included Amy Winehouse, Lana del Rey,

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Speaker 1: Mark Ronson and Cia, among others. Publishing is a complicated industry,

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Speaker 1: one seen as a business of pennies while the recorded

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Speaker 1: music companies traded in dollars. That's not so much the

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Speaker 1: case anymore, as catalog deals to acquire copyrights and their

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Speaker 1: streams of income can run in the hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars for top tier songwriters and artists. Still, the

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Speaker 1: vast majority of songwriters find themselves undercompensated in the streaming age.

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Speaker 1: They face governmental obstacles when it comes to negotiating their

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Speaker 1: share of royalties, administrative challenges collecting what they're owed, and

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Speaker 1: until recently haven't had an effective, unified voice with which

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Speaker 1: to amplify these issues. But things are changing. The Grammy

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Speaker 1: Awards will present its first ever Songwriter of the Year

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Speaker 1: honor on the February fifth show, and in the Copyright

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Speaker 1: Royalty Board, the governmental agency which sets rates for songwriters

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Speaker 1: as it relates to DSPs like Spotify and Apple Music,

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Speaker 1: increased streaming rates for THEE to term by nearly five percent,

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Speaker 1: also up Warner Chapel's revenues. In its third quarter of two,

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Speaker 1: the company reported overall revenue rose thirty five percent year

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Speaker 1: over year, with digital dollars growing by and sink. We

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Speaker 1: start our talk with carry on with some basics publishing

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Speaker 1: in a nutshell, then dive deep into the business of

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Speaker 1: songs as we know it today. Join us after the break,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to strictly business. Here's my conversation with Warner

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Speaker 1: Chapels carry in Marshall. Do your parents and your children

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Speaker 1: understand what you do? And if not, what do they

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Speaker 1: think you do? I don't quite think that my parents

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Speaker 1: understand what I do. I think they understand publishing a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. I mean, every time I get on

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Speaker 1: a plane or go to a business trip, my dad

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Speaker 1: still says, is your boss okay? With that? Like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, yes, yes, um my nine year old gets it.

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Speaker 1: Since he was a little kid. I'd say, here's the original,

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Speaker 1: here's the cover. What do you think he understands publishing

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Speaker 1: and songwriting? And I'm like that is a win, fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I love that, So let's stay on that thread and

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Speaker 1: maybe first layout the basics. Warner Chapel, which is the

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Speaker 1: publishing arm of Warner Music Group, houses songs written by

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Speaker 1: a wide range of writers across all genres. We're talking

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Speaker 1: everyone from Cole Porter to Quincy Jones, Led Zeppelin to Duran, Duran,

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Speaker 1: Madonna to The Grateful Dead, and many many more. The

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Speaker 1: company also represents current hit makers like Justin Tranter, whose

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Speaker 1: credits include Justin Bieber, Sorry, Halsey's Bad at Love and

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Speaker 1: Imagine Dragon's Enemy. I know this is a monster of

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Speaker 1: a question to post was carrying in, but can you

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Speaker 1: sort of encapsulate the role of publishing for our listeners?

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Speaker 1: It all starts with the song, and uh. The example

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Speaker 1: I often give is Summertime from Poor Game Bess, which

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Speaker 1: has been covered by many many people throughout the years.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there is necessarily an original artist for

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Speaker 1: that song. I think people just sort of know the song,

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Speaker 1: and some people may or may not even know it's

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Speaker 1: from Poor Game Bess written by the gersh Ones. So

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Speaker 1: anytime anybody covers that song, the publishers and songwriters make

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Speaker 1: money off that song does not matter who covers it

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Speaker 1: who performs it. So later, I think it was the nineties,

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Speaker 1: Sublime did an interprelation of Summertime. It's a song called

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Speaker 1: do in Time. This original songwriters get a piece of

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Speaker 1: that song. They're making money off that interprelation. And then

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Speaker 1: not so long ago, Lana del Right did a cover

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Speaker 1: of the Sublime song Doing Time, which interprelate the Summertime again,

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Speaker 1: another opportunity for those original songwriters states to get paid.

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Speaker 1: So I think that showcases publishing kind of in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: But to me, I feel like, so it's so incredibly

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Speaker 1: creative because it's really about that underlying song and there's

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Speaker 1: so many different things you can do with it and

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Speaker 1: different styles too. Um. I often say that a good

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Speaker 1: song is one that they can be covered in a

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Speaker 1: number of different genres because the song is so good,

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Speaker 1: and I think that there are a number of examples

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Speaker 1: of that too. I remember, this is a weird one,

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Speaker 1: and um, something I think about all the time. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Britney Spears had a huge hit with maybe One More Time,

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Speaker 1: and I remember going to see the band Travis This

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Speaker 1: must have been twenty years ago, and they performed the

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Speaker 1: song acoustic. I was like, holy shit, like that is

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Speaker 1: so good. So to me, that's such just another their

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Speaker 1: example of publishing. It's really about the song, and certainly

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Speaker 1: an artist can take it and own it and provide

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Speaker 1: color and personality and artistry to it. How many people

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Speaker 1: work at Warner Chapel just about six Globally, we're actually

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Speaker 1: smaller than you know, Sony and Universal. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have offices around the world, but we're pretty lean team. Um.

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Speaker 1: We a fewer copyrights than those guys too, But we

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Speaker 1: really try to think about, um, you know, how to

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Speaker 1: intentionally sign writers that we think we can add value to.

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Speaker 1: So we we just can't operate the same way as

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Speaker 1: some of our some of our counterparts in the business.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that was actually one of the

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Speaker 1: things that was most appealing to me about coming to

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Speaker 1: Warner Travel from a company like Songs. You know, Winner

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Speaker 1: Chapel is big enough to have this incredible global reach,

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Speaker 1: but also kind of small enough to be able to

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Speaker 1: be nimble and for Guy and I to have made

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Speaker 1: a number of changes in a relatively short period of

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Speaker 1: time that have been effective. How do you and Guy

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Speaker 1: divide your duties as co chairs when we first started

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Speaker 1: working together, we were both across everything. We thought it

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Speaker 1: was really really important for our teams to realize that

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Speaker 1: that we're aligned, like we're truly partners. Clearly, I like partnerships.

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Speaker 1: I had partners and songs that I have a partner

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Speaker 1: now and I love that. By the way, I always

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Speaker 1: want to learn. I kind of feel like I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: my dad still says to me, the day you stop

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Speaker 1: learning is the day you start getting old. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think about that a lot. I'm always curious. We

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Speaker 1: actually have um we we we put together some values

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Speaker 1: for our entire business and and one of them is curiosity.

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Speaker 1: We want people to lead with with curiosity and think

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Speaker 1: think about how they can learn daily. But you know,

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Speaker 1: Guy and I really appreciate being able to have the

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Speaker 1: other to bounce something off of. And he has such

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Speaker 1: a different background than I do, but we both come

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Speaker 1: from creative and we've both been in publishing almost in

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Speaker 1: our entire careers. So we were on minds on that

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Speaker 1: from like day one. And we know exactly where we're going,

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Speaker 1: and we have different points of view about how to

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Speaker 1: get there in different perspectives and experiences, and we feel

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Speaker 1: very strongly that by you know, leveraging both of our

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Speaker 1: sets of experiences, that helps make a better business. And

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Speaker 1: we think about that when we talk to, you know,

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Speaker 1: our other people that that work with us and work

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Speaker 1: for us too, it's like, what are we missing? What

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Speaker 1: can we learn? So to answer your question, though, now

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Speaker 1: that we're about four years in, we've kind of naturally

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Speaker 1: gravitated to certain areas where we're focused on. I kind

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Speaker 1: of spend more time in synchronization and administration and UM

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Speaker 1: strategic integration operations as it relates to UM systems and

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Speaker 1: technology guys very focused on and our dealmaking. But that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that we don't talk about all of it.

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Speaker 1: We neither one of us makes any big decisions without

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Speaker 1: the other. And in fact, he and I were sort

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Speaker 1: of talking recently about how lucky we are that we

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Speaker 1: just instinctively know who's going to do what and how

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Speaker 1: how we're going to approach something, and that we really

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Speaker 1: need to focus on how to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: people that work for us understand the same things that

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Speaker 1: we just know in our heads. UM. So we've been

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Speaker 1: very very lucky that we've stayed aligned that way. UM,

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Speaker 1: but certainly if something came up today. Um, that was

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Speaker 1: synchronous Asian related and Guy and I talked about it

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Speaker 1: because I wanted his point of view and it was important.

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Speaker 1: And that happens all the time with deals. I have

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Speaker 1: tons of managers and attorneys and songwriters, so you know

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Speaker 1: where it makes sense, we really really look after each

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Speaker 1: other and check in with each other. We actually share

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Speaker 1: assistance too. We each have our own assistant who sort

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Speaker 1: of helps us with scheduling, but the two of them

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Speaker 1: work for both of us as far as like projects go,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, there's all sorts of things that

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Speaker 1: kind of come from both of us, and so it's

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Speaker 1: important to us that we hire people that really wanted

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Speaker 1: to collaborate and partner too. I wanted to ask you

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Speaker 1: how has sink changed And think just to remind everybody

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Speaker 1: is uh is the synchronization of a song to a

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Speaker 1: piece of visual media. So that could be a film,

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Speaker 1: it could be a commercial, could be a television show.

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Speaker 1: We saw Stranger Things in become the Unlikely hit, a

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Speaker 1: song that was released originally and sat alongside Drake Future

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Speaker 1: to Alipa like among the biggest songs of the year.

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Speaker 1: That was, of course because of its use in stranger things,

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Speaker 1: which it wasn't a one time use. It was like

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Speaker 1: a motif repeated, Um, this isn't so, this isn't a

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Speaker 1: Warner Chapel copyright. But it was still just an incredible

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Speaker 1: story for anyone who's involved in SYNC. So, how have

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Speaker 1: you seen the SYNC world change with you know, the

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Speaker 1: arrivals of Netflix and Amazon and and all of the streamers. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's more content, which is really exciting, but that also

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Speaker 1: means there's not just one moment that everybody is going

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Speaker 1: to tune into. So in order to hit more people

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Speaker 1: and have the music and the show be impactful, it's

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Speaker 1: like you have to try to think about well, at

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Speaker 1: least on the song side, we think a lot about

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Speaker 1: how to make sure we get our songs in as

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Speaker 1: much content as possible. It was actually talking to Um,

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Speaker 1: one of our catalog writers. Um, he's a he's a

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Speaker 1: contemporary writer too, but you know he has really big

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Speaker 1: songs from from the eighties in particular, and Um I

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Speaker 1: said to him, of course I'm telling you something different

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Speaker 1: now than I did five years ago, or then I

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Speaker 1: would have ten years ago, because it's a different landscape

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Speaker 1: and it's my responsibility to think about how to keep

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Speaker 1: songs alive in twenty two, which is a different proposition

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Speaker 1: than it would have been previously. And what I mean

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Speaker 1: by that is that, you know, let's let's go back

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Speaker 1: about ten years, UM, people were really picky. Writers were

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Speaker 1: very very picky, and artists, some of them about where

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Speaker 1: their songs were placed. To go back twenty years even pickier. UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think writers in particular and we as publishers think

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Speaker 1: a lot about how to make sure we are getting

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Speaker 1: to as many people as possible. It doesn't mean we

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Speaker 1: want to make a bad deal, it doesn't mean we

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Speaker 1: want to oversaturate, but it does mean that there have

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Speaker 1: to be more opportunities. You can't just count on that

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Speaker 1: one thing now that you do have the lightning and

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Speaker 1: bottle moment, of course, like like stranger things and that

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Speaker 1: can happen, but you want to give yourself more opportunities

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Speaker 1: for that to happen. So I spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time talking to some of our writers who had bigger

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Speaker 1: songs years ago about being more flexible and thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot about value. UM. I think historically a lot of

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Speaker 1: synchronization departments UM kind of would hold onto for a

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Speaker 1: very large fee would be really tough and negotiating. I

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Speaker 1: have a different point of view, and so does our

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Speaker 1: global how to sync Rich Robinson. We both really feel

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Speaker 1: like it's a relationship business, and it's our job to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we are introducing people to whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that they're looking for for those particular spots, and

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Speaker 1: those relationships are really important, frankly, not just on the

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Speaker 1: creative side, but also on the clearance side. We want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that our songs are easy to license.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that, you know, one of our big

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Speaker 1: writers is going to approve a song for a low fee,

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Speaker 1: but it may mean that the writer or the person

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Speaker 1: on our clearance team says, hey, you know what, that's

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Speaker 1: not going to work for the song, but let us

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Speaker 1: try to find something else for you that works. That

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Speaker 1: service component, I think is far more important now. It's

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Speaker 1: something that that I think has always been really meaningful

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Speaker 1: to me. Um certainly it's songs. And you know, my

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Speaker 1: first executive job at DreamWorks Publishing was as a synchronization executive,

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Speaker 1: and so I've always really thought a lot about the

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Speaker 1: relationship piece. I think the other thing that's changed a

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Speaker 1: lot is that historically writers would really want to know

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Speaker 1: every single thing about a use. Before they said yes,

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Speaker 1: but now the focus seems to be and I'm making

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Speaker 1: generalizations here, but especially for the younger writers who are

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Speaker 1: really savvy, um, they understand that in order to make

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Speaker 1: a living as a songwriter, you need your songs everywhere.

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Speaker 1: So that may mean giving a broader approval, That may

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Speaker 1: mean not seeing every scene description, that may mean trying

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Speaker 1: to put your songs everywhere on TikTok and you know,

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Speaker 1: YouTube and wherever they can. So the attitude is changing

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Speaker 1: a bit on the writer side, which makes it, you know,

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Speaker 1: on some um you know, I guess, in some ways

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Speaker 1: easier for us as publishers to think about how to

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Speaker 1: interact with the various communities of people who are going

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Speaker 1: to be licensing our music. On the other hand, it

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Speaker 1: is there's a ton of competition. There are more and

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Speaker 1: more songs being released, there's more and more content. But

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Speaker 1: that means there's more and more opportunities to connect with

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Speaker 1: people too. And so I think the other thing that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing too, which is exciting and it reminds me

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Speaker 1: a lot of the things that we thought about and

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Speaker 1: talked about its songs, is that there are opportunities for

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Speaker 1: writers to make a living as a songwriter by not

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Speaker 1: necessarily having huge hits. You could have a song that

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Speaker 1: was cut by a pop artist and a song on

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Speaker 1: a television show, and maybe a score for a television

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Speaker 1: show and maybe partner with somebody over here, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there's just more opportunities. I think for our writers to

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Speaker 1: kind of diversify, it takes some muscle, but I think

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Speaker 1: that's exciting and where a lot of that creative process,

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Speaker 1: you know, is realized. We need to take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: but we'll be back with more from carry Anne Marshall.

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Speaker 1: And we're back with carry Anne Marshall. So songwriters have

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Speaker 1: been top of mind these last few years. UM. Definitely

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Speaker 1: as a group, have gotten louder about their royalty rates,

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Speaker 1: about credits, UM. You know, we hear a lot about

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Speaker 1: trials over the creation of songs, like of course the

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Speaker 1: Blurred Lines trial. And I kind of wanted you to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what the challenges have been

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Speaker 1: for songwriters and what have been their accomplishments these last

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Speaker 1: few years. I think one thing the pandemic did was

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Speaker 1: it allowed people to kind of focus on issues that

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Speaker 1: mattered to them. UM. And I think it's not really

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Speaker 1: a coincidence. So, so explain what's been happening. So in

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Speaker 1: the United States, UM, songwriters and publishers cannot negotiate UM

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Speaker 1: in a free market with UM the digital service provider,

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Speaker 1: So that rate, that royalty rate is set by the

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Speaker 1: government and at that rate comes up for review every

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Speaker 1: every four years. UM. There's been a lot of noise

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Speaker 1: around like how do we make sure that songwriters are

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Speaker 1: compensated more fairly? UM, they're not, and it's hard, and

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of noise about it. Some people blame

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Speaker 1: the record labels, some people blame this. I mean, frankly,

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Speaker 1: if we could negotiate as publishers in framework, we would

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Speaker 1: have gotten the best deal we could have do I

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see any any issue with that

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Speaker 1: at all. UM. So we've been able to really make

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Speaker 1: some headway. UM. The headline rate is moving from ten

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Speaker 1: point five percent to fifteen point one percent UM, which

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Speaker 1: is quite significant and certainly it's not like fifty percent,

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Speaker 1: but no, it's a it's a very significant number. And

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Speaker 1: then from two thousand twenty three, Wow, UM, it's going

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Speaker 1: to move from fifteen point one to fifteen point three

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Speaker 1: five and that was a settlement that the publishers made

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Speaker 1: um with the digital service providers so we wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: to go through all these like seatings. Again, the thing

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Speaker 1: that that we think about a lot is, and I

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Speaker 1: think to your point during the pandemic it was able

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Speaker 1: to be amplified, is how do we how do we

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Speaker 1: educate songwriters we as a as a business, not just

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Speaker 1: we as Warner chap Well. How do we make sure

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Speaker 1: that writers know what's happening. How do we make sure

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Speaker 1: that they're aware when they're vocal it can matter, uh

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Speaker 1: how the more they know can help empower them to

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Speaker 1: fight for being seen. I think it's kind of fascinating

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Speaker 1: and I was talking to some people about this. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you think about classical composers, you don't think of

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Speaker 1: the artists who perform them. You think of the classical

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Speaker 1: composer when you think about songs from you know, the

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Speaker 1: Great American songbook, Cold Porter or Gershwin or Julie Stein

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Speaker 1: Irving Berlin. At the time was pretty uh common to

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Speaker 1: have ten people have recordings of any given popular song

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Speaker 1: out at the same time, and the star was sort

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Speaker 1: of the songwriter. Obviously that's changed, but it's exciting for

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Speaker 1: us that people are starting to pay more attention in

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Speaker 1: the business world, certainly when it comes to catalog sales,

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Speaker 1: but also in the public eye. You know, UM our

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Speaker 1: DSP partners now do songwriter pages, many of them, and

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Speaker 1: so our creative services teams will work with those u

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Speaker 1: DSPs to make sure our writers like Justin Tranter or

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Speaker 1: people who don't also perform, are showcased our songwriters. So

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Speaker 1: I think there's quite a lot more awareness. I think

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Speaker 1: there's been an incredible um change where there's there's so

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Speaker 1: much more visibility. I also think that's not enough. I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes people will say I've heard people say, well,

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Speaker 1: they're now songwriter pages, people songwriters are look at the

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Speaker 1: valuation of catalogs. That's enough, and it's it's not because

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Speaker 1: songwriters still aren't being paid enough. And we're going to

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Speaker 1: continue to work and we feel really excited about moving

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Speaker 1: up to fifteen point three five. That's a huge improvement. UM.

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Speaker 1: The technology space has moved so rapidly. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: we like to be partners with the folks on the

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Speaker 1: on the digital distribution side. We want to work with them.

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Speaker 1: We do in many ways, but it's tricky because things

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Speaker 1: evolved so quickly, so we collectively, I think as an

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Speaker 1: industry in music publishing UM industry as well, songwriters will

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Speaker 1: continue to work and to advocate for writers to get

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Speaker 1: to get paid more. UM. But I am really proud

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Speaker 1: of the work that's gone in across the board, and

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Speaker 1: I do appreciate that people are talking about songwriters more again,

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Speaker 1: I think that's really exciting. Songwriting camps have long been

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Speaker 1: used by publishers as a way to seek out potential collaborations.

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Speaker 1: Maybe most famously Empire State of Mind by Jay Z

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Speaker 1: featuring Alicia Keys had its roots in a writing camp.

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Speaker 1: These can be in the form of a physical retreat

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Speaker 1: with other writers, producers and even artists. Can you explain

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Speaker 1: a bit how they work. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: is frankly most important about the songwriting camps is community building.

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Speaker 1: I think the stronger the songwriter community, the better it

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Speaker 1: is for songwriters in general and for our business. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of in this world of like lots of competition. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a colleague of mine and this

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Speaker 1: has come up with a number of times. It's like

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Speaker 1: everything is a competition, show, everything is a competition. Being

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Speaker 1: how many likes do you have? So where can we

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Speaker 1: find opportunities to actually build community? And I think we

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Speaker 1: see this too. I mean, we saw it as a

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Speaker 1: business during lockdown, as great as it is to be

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Speaker 1: able to be on video and to utilize technology to

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Speaker 1: stay connected, and frankly have a lot of our writers

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Speaker 1: that co writes. Virtually when you're tagether in person, it

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Speaker 1: feels different you, you know, and when you like somebody

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Speaker 1: even a little bit. If you don't like somebody, a

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Speaker 1: supposed this different story. But when you like somebody even

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Speaker 1: a little bit, you give them the benefit of the doubt,

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Speaker 1: you want to work things out with them. You have

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Speaker 1: a connection. And so we think a lot about building

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Speaker 1: those bridges, not just within the songwriter community, but also

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Speaker 1: within our community people at Warner Chapel too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think when Guy and I came in, a lot

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Speaker 1: of the departments are really siloed. They didn't talk to

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Speaker 1: each other much. And there is a lot of value

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Speaker 1: in people understanding the value that they bring, whether they're

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Speaker 1: a junior employee or somebody who's more senior. And also

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Speaker 1: to understand the value and the people that say on

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Speaker 1: either side of you and I think it's important. I

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Speaker 1: know we're talking a lot about creative and the songwriter piece,

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Speaker 1: but I also think it's really important to acknowledge, um,

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Speaker 1: the significance of departments like administration, because you know, a

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Speaker 1: song is created, it's released, but how do how does

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Speaker 1: the writer get the money? There's a gazillion different income

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Speaker 1: streams now, it's not just one, and our admin team

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Speaker 1: is incredibly dedicated to making sure that our writers are

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Speaker 1: paid accurately. It's like, really really a big deal, and

399
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Speaker 1: there's no output if it isn't for that. I think

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Speaker 1: I described it at one point to somebody as like

401
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Speaker 1: the circulatory system kind of um, because it touches everything.

402
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: It's not just for creatives. Like, we have incredible financial people, analysts,

403
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: data folks, technology people, attorneys, you know, all all sorts

404
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: of people, reproduction, music team, and that's really interesting business.

405
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Speaker 1: So I just feel like there's the output, which is

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Speaker 1: what we all know and we enjoy and love, But

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Speaker 1: how do you get to that output and how do

408
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Speaker 1: this songwriter actually get paid? Well, you know, there's this

409
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Speaker 1: whole group of people that ensures it. And even if

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Speaker 1: you're a junior level admin entry, you know, like a

411
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Speaker 1: data entry person. You know, you're helping a writer get

412
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Speaker 1: paid because you're putting in the information to help the

413
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Speaker 1: right Nothing happens with that the people behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: If you could rebuild the publishing industry from the top down,

415
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Speaker 1: what would you change, Well, I would I would want

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Speaker 1: songwriters to get hayd more. Of course, that's an easy answer,

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Speaker 1: and I think that is the answer. Frankly a Charlie,

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Speaker 1: But I do think that we're on our way to

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Speaker 1: better awareness, but our partnerships and making sure that um

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Speaker 1: that more people are aware of what we're doing and

421
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: what our writers are doing. You know, these days, it

422
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Speaker 1: seems from the headlines you read in music trades that

423
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: credits on hit songs have become more litigious than ever.

424
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Speaker 1: Pop artists like Katie Perry and Lizzo have come under

425
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Speaker 1: fire for what others deem as referencing previously released material,

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Speaker 1: and with the Blurred Lines verdict awarding the estate of

427
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: Marvin Gay, there appear to be more ambulance chasers that

428
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Speaker 1: require musicologists to determine what came from what? Does Warner

429
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: Chapel employee musicologists not on staff. We usually use somebody

430
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: externally if we feel like we need to like in

431
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: neutral party that feels more comfortable. Has that been more

432
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: of an issue lately? The whole m this, this, this

433
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: chord structure, this melody, this note progression is previously existed.

434
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: I think songwriters are more aware of that. I do.

435
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: I've heard it from songwriters, and what I have heard

436
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: is that they just want to be more mindful as

437
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: they're writing or as their unit reviewing demos. Beyond that,

438
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: I haven't heard anything extra, but I do think people

439
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: are far more mindful. Maybe that is why there is

440
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: more of a trend of using, you know, making interprelations

441
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: or or sampling, because it's just acknowledging it. Because the

442
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: whole idea of like, oh I subconsciously incorporated something I'd

443
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: heard fifteen years ago feels like, you know, really flimsy

444
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: as a defense, you know, when when it does become litigious,

445
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: which sometimes it does, um, someone will come out and say,

446
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: this was my song from you know whatever. I've seen

447
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: it more often from my point of view, so it's

448
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: curious if you have. Yeah, I think that as much

449
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: as that maybe a flimsy defense, I think that probably

450
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: happens more than we think. You know, somebody has something

451
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: stuck in our head. I don't know where it came from,

452
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: so hey know, how are we mindful about that? There's

453
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: only you know, so many notes and so many melodies?

454
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: How do you continue to get creative and original? Um?

455
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean obviously they're all sorts of thoughts about that

456
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: and where the where the line is drawn? What are

457
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: your goals for the year ahead. I think we're continuing

458
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: to see the world around us move so quickly, whether

459
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: it's technology, whether it's output of content, and we think

460
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 1: a lot about how we can continue to be nimble

461
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: in a world where things are changing so quickly. UM.

462
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: Whether it's making sure that underlying systems to get writers

463
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: paid or or to help move things along more quickly

464
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: are built in a way that they can always evolve

465
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: as technology evolves, or we're thinking about how to make

466
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: sure that our teams understand that relationship piece so if

467
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: things change rapidly or there's more and more content that

468
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: we need songs license for that, they're in a good

469
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: position to be able to um, think about how to

470
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: offer songs more quickly or deeply in our catalog. I

471
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: think that movement, the speed of how things are moving

472
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: is something that we think about all the time there

473
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: is a question about what it's going to look like

474
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: in versus UM. I talked earlier in our conversation about

475
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: how different the needs were or how different our jobs.

476
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: Whereas publishers even five and ten years ago trying to

477
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: get our songs heard, I think where you just have

478
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: to continuously be mindful of what that looks like. We

479
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: as Warner Chapel, are really trying to make sure that

480
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: we are signing writers and artists that are culturally significant.

481
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: We signed Strom May this year, which was so so incredible,

482
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: and obviously at the top of last year it was

483
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: the David Bowie catalog, and you know, we really think

484
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: a lot about those cultural moments, and UM, we think

485
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: a lot about international music. So who are the big

486
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: impactful songwriters in smaller territories around the world. UM, we're

487
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of incredible engagement with local language songs

488
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: and music, and we're also thinking about how to make

489
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: sure that we are considering, you know, different translations of

490
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: our catalog songs in smaller territories because people are feeling

491
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: really connected to that local culture and that local scene.

492
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: So from the like practical systems, how do we move quickly.

493
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: That's one piece, and then there's like that cultural. How

494
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: do we really think about who we love, who we

495
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: feel we can add value, help impact, and what does

496
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: that mean for our business globally. I'd say those are

497
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: some of the things we're really focused on. Carry and Marshall,

498
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on Strictly Business. It's

499
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: my pleasure surely. M thanks for tuning into Variety Strictly Business.

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Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Jessica shall Boy. Please make

501
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes

502
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: featuring conversations with media movers and shakers. Also leave a

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00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.

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Speaker 1: M