1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha and do ope to 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told your production. I heart radio, Samantha. 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: Did you ever get into anything like boxing or kickboxing, 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: any kind of fighting sort of sports activity. Yes, I 5 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: actually really really love kickboxing, and I have about three 6 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: to four different pairs of kickboxing stuff, gloves specifically, and reps. 7 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: I used to work out in and all girls fitness 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: group that used to compete um He did tech window 9 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: and kickboxing and all of that, and I loved it. 10 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: I joined them for about three years and I made 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: friends with all of them, loved every bit of it, 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: really got into it, and to the point that I 13 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: was an annoying person who would jab at people pretend 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: like I was gonna kick him. I'm so sorry that 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: I was an annoying kid. Uh And I was an adult, 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: but probably before the pandemic, I had joined another one. 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: It was a bigger class. I didn't enjoy that as 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: much because they didn't do anything technical. It was all 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: based on fitness, so if you did anything wrong, you 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: would mess yourself up real hard. And I did something 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: wrong I don't know how, and I ended up pulling 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: my calf muscle to the point that I couldn't walk 23 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: for a week and it was swollen and it completely 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 1: bruised up. So I haven't done one since then. I'm 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: really sad. But I really used to love them. Yeah, yeah, 26 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: I used to be really big into kickboxing. I started 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: taking it my dad was a college professor, and one 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: of the perks of that was I got to take 29 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: classes for free that were not like college classes, but 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: we're offered by the college, right, And it was nice 31 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: because that that sounds like a bunch of college students. 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: And then I started in middle school, but it was 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: you know, family members of of anybody at the college, 34 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: so it was a nice mix of people. I also 35 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: took Taichee, which is very different, but that was so 36 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: terrible at it, but I loved it um. I have 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: many many funny stories about TIChE um. And then when 38 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: I was in college, there were some free programs that 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: got really into. Capawara was one of them, which is 40 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: kind of like Brazilian fight dancing. And then I started 41 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: taking some more intense kickboxing UH in the past few years, 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: but I too, I hurt myself and UH had to stop. 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: But I have the gloves still in my car and 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: every time I see them, I'm like, oh, that was 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: such a fun time. They made me feel so tough 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: to put on those gloves. Yes, especially you were wrapping 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: up your hands. Yeah, it was extremely satisfying and that 48 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: we wanted to to talk about this because as as 49 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: we're recording this, as you're listening, the Olympics are underway 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: and we're possibly are over. I guess we can't control 51 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: it when you're listening to it, but the timing we chose, 52 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: so this episode is a bit dated. It's about when um, 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: the Olympics in had the women's boxing and all of 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: this attention to one of the competitors, Claressa Shields. So 55 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: it's a bit dated, but we thought we would bring 56 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: it back since that's where everybody's mine, well not everybody, 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: so where a lot of the attention is having a 58 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: lot of like clarifications in those But we hope that 59 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: you enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you from 60 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: how stupp works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 61 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. And when we're recording this, 62 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: we are one day away from the Rio Games, the 63 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: two thousand six teen Summer Olympics, so exciting. I actually, 64 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, I I'm I've never been a sports fan. 65 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and myself. You wipe that 66 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: look off your face, conger, I'm smiling. Yeah, uh huh um. 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: But I I do love the excitement and the community 68 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: feeling and the electricity that comes from watching the Olympics. 69 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: Um well, hopefully not electricity anywhere near the swimmers, but 70 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: electricity in your bones. The feeling that you get watching 71 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: all of these people, these patriotic athletes competing to win 72 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: the gold. Yeah. And this year I'm going to be 73 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: watching boxing. And I'll tell you what, Caroline, I never 74 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: watch boxing ever. It makes me uncomfortable to watch a 75 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: professional boxing match. I don't like it. It It makes me nervous. 76 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: So there's somehow going to like jump through the TV 77 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: screen and like break my coffee table. So you're not 78 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: a fan of conflict, I get it, it's true. But 79 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: I am a huge fan of the USA middleweight favorite 80 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: Claressa Shields. Oh she's got a great story, She's amazing. 81 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: I was just telling Kristen before we came into the 82 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: studio that I would watch the movie of Claressa Shields 83 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: from Flint Michigan training with her coach, Billy Walsh, who's 84 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: this Irish dude who's molded all of these really successful 85 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: amateur teams, and he and Clarissa totally butted heads. There's 86 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: this great article that we read about, you know, Clarissa 87 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: being successful and the top of her game and also 88 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: incredibly hardheaded. And here comes this new coach of hers, 89 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, telling her how to improve and and she 90 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: just they were not so good eye to eye. Yeah, 91 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: but they worked through their conflict and are now a 92 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: really well oiled machine. And I love in that NBC 93 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: article that Claressa said, you know, it turned out that 94 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: he had some things to teach me, and I've got 95 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: some things to teach him. And just for a little background, 96 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: in twelve we were talking about Claressa Shields on stuff 97 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: and I've never told you because the London Olympics was 98 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: the first time that women's boxing was an event and 99 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: Claressa Shields was seventeen years old at the time, and 100 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: she brought home the gold. Yes, she did. She made history. 101 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: She did make history. And at twenty one she is 102 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: still a fierce fighter. Uh. We read an article about 103 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: her in the Denver Post and they wrote, no US 104 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: amateur is more important than Shields, who built on her 105 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: teenage dominance in London with two World championships and a 106 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: pan Am Games gold. And they right now she's a 107 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: smooth twenty one year old team leader with major endorsement deals. 108 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: And it might seem like not a huge deal or 109 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: huge thing to note that she has endorsement deals, but 110 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: actually that's pretty important to bring up. Yeah. So there 111 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: is a PBS independent lens documentary on Clarissa Shields called 112 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: t REX Her Fight for the Gold, which I highly 113 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: recommend watching. UM. It's actually available to stream for free 114 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: on the PBS site throughout August UM, and it traces 115 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: how she went from being an eleven year old kid 116 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: in Flint, Michigan, which, if you're not familiar, Flint Michigan 117 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: is just destitute in a lot of ways. Um. A 118 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: lot of factory jobs have evaporated, completely evaporated. Of course, 119 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: there's a whole water issue, UM that's been a major 120 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: issue in the political campaign here in the US. UM. 121 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: And it's just a bad situation all around. And for Shields, 122 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: her father was imprisoned, her mother has had addiction issues 123 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: off and on and at eleven, she shows up to 124 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: this boxing gym in Flint, and the coach there, Jason Crutchfield, 125 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: who ended up being her first coach, spotted her talent 126 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: and so he kind of took her under his wing. 127 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: But Crushfield had no idea that Sheields wold get as 128 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: far as she had because he said that he didn't 129 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: agree with female boxing at the time. But which is 130 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: a pretty common thing that you hear from a lot 131 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: of people in the sports world. Oh yeah, I mean, 132 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: and and that's really what this episode that we're going 133 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: to play from is focused on, is why it's taken 134 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: so long for women's amateur boxing to get into the Olympics, 135 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: and and the reasons. You know, the basic reasons aren't 136 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: that surprising women punching other women and violates like all 137 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: feminine gender norms. Yeah, I mean, think about you know, 138 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: you just mentioned being uncomfortable watching boxing in general, Like 139 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: think about people like ad Jason crutch Field from earlier, 140 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: or just think about your average sports viewer. I'm sure 141 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people are very uncomfortable with watching two 142 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: women essentially just beat each other about the face a 143 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: whole bunch. Well, and watching Shields is story unfold in 144 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: the t Rex documentary. H makes me want to watch her, 145 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, punch other women because I mean, again, her 146 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: background is just so incredible. I mean, she really is 147 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: living the American dream. Not to get cliche about it, 148 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: but it's true. Yeah. And I mean you mentioned wanting 149 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: to watch her punch other women in the face, and 150 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: it was you know, I mentioned her endorsement deals a 151 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: second ago. And it is that very public, open and 152 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: almost gleeful discussion of being able to say successfully punch 153 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: other women in the face that made people tell Clarissa 154 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: that she needed to perhaps tone her bravado down a 155 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: little bit if she did want to secure those deals. Yeah, 156 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: because after she won the gold in London, she comes 157 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,119 Speaker 1: back to Flint, She's greeted with a hero's welcome, the 158 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: local airport was flooded with fans of hers. She had 159 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: a whole parade. But she ends up back at home 160 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: and she's essentially having to support her family and trying 161 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: to figure out, still at seventeen years old, how to 162 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: get through high school, whether she wants to stay amateur 163 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: and shoot for another gold or whether she wants to 164 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: turn pro, and what to do with the kinds of 165 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: offers that were immediately coming her way, and it was 166 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: really hard for her at first to kind of wrap 167 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: her head around the whole what's next, because she had 168 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: been so focused on just getting to London and wanting 169 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: to get the gold. And after she did, you know, 170 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,359 Speaker 1: you can kind of see her a little bit deflated 171 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I've achieved my dream. Um, I'm not 172 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm famous, but I'm not rich and I'm not getting 173 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: paid the same as mail boxers, who I am just 174 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: as good as. And there's this meeting that she has 175 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: in the documentary with representatives from USA Boxing where yeah, 176 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: the rep is like, you know, um, you just uh 177 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: you need to stop saying how you know how much 178 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: you enjoy beating people up? And the look on Claressa's 179 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: face is just like incredulous, and she just sort of 180 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: shakes her head and says, yeah, I mean, I guess 181 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: I can reward that, but it frustrates her because you know, 182 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: after this meeting is over, she says, it's not about money, 183 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: It's about getting what you deserve. It's about respecting me 184 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: being a woman, respect me being black, and respect me 185 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: as an athlete who represented the United States. Um, and 186 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I am glad to see that in the intervening years 187 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: she has attracted bigger endorsement deals. UM. But I am 188 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: so rooting for her to get that second gold, you know, um, 189 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: because I want, I want everything for for Claressa. I 190 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: want her to to achieve her dream not only of 191 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: getting that second gold, but also as she talks about 192 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: wanting to take her family out of Flint, that's all 193 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: she wants. And even I mean, I think she's a 194 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: great figure for girls, younger girls to be aware of, 195 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: even if those younger girls are not boxing fans or 196 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: even sports fans, because she is a great example of 197 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: someone who will not take no for an answer. She's 198 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: got this great quote where she says, uh, they said 199 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: boxing was a manned sport. That was not the right 200 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: reason to tell me not to box. In other words, 201 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: she just sees it as well more thing that she 202 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: will definitely overcome. It's a driving factor. Oh you're gonna 203 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: tell me that this isn't for girls? Will let me 204 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: show you. I mean, and I'm waiting to for her 205 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: biopic because I mean, it should be her Her life 206 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: is like reading like a movie at this point, and 207 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: I just keep imagining her at eleven years old, just 208 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: walking into a boxing gym, like comparing like myself at 209 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: eleven years old, Like just how on a very basic level, 210 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: just how brave that is? Yeah, what was I doing 211 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: at eleven? I was just wearing the pleated shorts that 212 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: my mother had bought me at J. C. Penny's and 213 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: probably still playing by myself in the basement. I'm imagining 214 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: you shadow boxing and you're really get at shorts now. 215 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: Don't forget the sleeveless, collared, button up plaid shirt that 216 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: I wore tucked into them. I love it. Do you 217 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: think though, that the USA team's lightweight Olympic contender MICHAELA 218 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: Meyer ever gay? It's tired of always hearing about her 219 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: middleweight team made up Claressa Shields because they're like the 220 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: the only two women who are representing the US in 221 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: boxing at the Olympics. Well, my hope is that they 222 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: support each other. But I mean, yeah, Michaelas got a 223 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: great story too. She when she was a teenager, she 224 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: was struggling in school. Wasn't wasn't buckling down, you know, 225 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: it was kind of hopping around to a couple of 226 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: different schools and at seventeen, she walks into a Muay 227 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: Thai jim. Not my taie jim. That's something completely different. 228 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: That's what I call the bar them your local t 229 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: key bar. Yeah. Um, yeah, she walked into this muy 230 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: Tai jim, starts training, realizes that it's for her, that 231 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: this activity, the sport is for her, and it actually 232 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: helps her then buckle down at school and succeed. Yeah, 233 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: it helps her focus. And as soon as she finds 234 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: out that the Olympics was going to include women's boxing 235 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: for the first time, that became her goal and she 236 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: didn't make it to London, but now she's going to Rio. 237 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: But the big question then is for for both Michaela 238 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: and Claressa, after their amateur and Olympic careers are over, 239 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: can they turn pro because there aren't that many opportunities 240 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: as you might imagine for female boxers. Yeah, you've basically 241 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: got to join up with UFC or start competing as 242 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: an m m A fighter, like a Rhonda Rousy for instance, 243 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: who did win the bronze in judo in But again 244 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: here we have Claressa Shields having none of this disinterest 245 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: in uh in women's boxing. She was having none of 246 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: the lack of opportunities, and she was quoted in an 247 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: NBC article saying, whichever promoter takes on women's boxing is 248 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: going to be a very wealthy man. Because that's the 249 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: issue a lot of times, is that it's not that 250 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: people will never be interested in women's boxing, it's that 251 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: traditionally they haven't tuned in and if promoters can't make 252 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: money off of something, they're not going to put their 253 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: money into it. And what you are seeing though, is 254 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: with women like Rhonda Rousey, who are bringing a lot 255 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: of attention to mixed martial arts and fighting in general, 256 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: you are getting more people who are saying, oh, well, 257 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: this is interesting to watch. I really enjoy watching this, 258 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: and they're putting their money where they're boxing. Opinions are 259 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. Their fandom is sure well. 260 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: And the thing is it's not just you know, Rhonda 261 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: Rousey who is bringing huge ratings for the UFC, it's 262 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: pretty much all of their female fights. And so these 263 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: boxers are looking to you know, UFC and m m 264 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: A saying hey, if if they can do it, we 265 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: can do this with boxing. Or the option is, you know, 266 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: they will just transition into m m A. I mean, 267 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: you have someone like MICHAELA who already has a white 268 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: tie background. UM. And I did like though, how Claressa 269 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: Shields said, listen, Ronda Rousey got a bronze, I have 270 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: a gold. Yeah, like come on people, Well yeah, and 271 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: and well I think it was even better than that, 272 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: because it was something like, uh, you know, she has 273 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: a bronze and I have a gold. You know what 274 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like she's clearly like there's a little bit 275 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: of shade there of course, yeah, but it's like, I mean, 276 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: if she, if she can do that at that level, 277 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: imagine just imagine what what I can do. So it'll 278 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: be interesting to see not only how they perform in 279 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: the Olympics fingers crossed Shields wins her second gold, UM, 280 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: but also to see what happens afterwards, because I have 281 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: a feeling that Shields at twenty one, especially if she 282 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: wins the second gold, will probab way term pro and 283 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: go for that. UM. But I don't think that women's 284 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: Olympic boxing is nearly as controversial this year, in this 285 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Summer Olympics as it was in and partly because of 286 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: Clarissa shields, partly because she was such a sensation. Yeah, 287 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: and I mean, I people get used to stuff. I mean, 288 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure there are people this year who, especially younger viewers, 289 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: who just probably assumed that women's boxing has always been 290 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: a part of the Olympics. I'm sure there are people 291 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: out there who take it for granted that women have 292 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: had to fight to get included in the Olympics. Yeah. 293 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: I mean you're thinking about just the fact that, you know, 294 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: like you said, people get used to stuff. It's like 295 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: back in the day, people had to get used to 296 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: women just driving, riding and train women voting, women running, 297 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and I mean women wearing pants. Yeah, women 298 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: running marathons is relatively new for for the Olympics, and 299 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: only the eighties or nineties. And it is funny take 300 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: it from us. Kristen and I have spoken to audiences 301 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: of very young girls and have watched as the looks 302 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: on their faces turned to shock and awe as we 303 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: describe the history of things that they are used to 304 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: seeing that weren't a possibility a hundred years ago. And 305 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think but that's good. I think people 306 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: should be used to women in the Olympics. Absolutely, Um, 307 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: there are still two primary differences between men's and women's 308 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: boxing at the Olympics. Uh. Mainly you will notice that 309 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: women still wear headgear, although that might change in Um. 310 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: And while the dudes fight three four minute rounds, the 311 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: women fight for two minute rounds. That's not a lot 312 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: of time to bring down your opponent, to mess somebody up. 313 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: But I tell you what, I would not want to 314 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 1: go four rounds, okay with any of the women who 315 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: will be fighting in the Olympics. But just imagining going 316 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: four rounds with Chloris's shields, I would just I would 317 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: immediately just get on the floor and ball up. Well, 318 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, I mean boxing is not your thing, and 319 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: that's fine. Maybe you're more of the type of gymnasts 320 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: that uses the ribbons. Oh my god, did you know 321 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: that As a child, I had a ribbon dancer Caroline, 322 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: and I pretended to be a rhythmic gymnast. Wait ribbon dancer, 323 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: as in the thing, the one thing that although I 324 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: had one listeners, Uh, I made my own. Oh it 325 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: was subpar. It was really just a branch. The ribbon 326 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: was too heavy. Um, but yeah, you are absolutely right. 327 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: I was all about rhythmic gymnastics. Hey, I just said that. 328 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 1: I didn't realize it's true. I checked out piles and 329 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: piles of book from the library. I trained myself to 330 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: be able to do splits. I was serious about it. 331 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: This is what you get to do when you're homeschooled. 332 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: I've never been an individual who can do a split. 333 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: Never Anyway, Well, if you go get some books at 334 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: your library, um, we'll get diagrams splits. Okay, just just 335 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: work on it, you know. But we are going to 336 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: be re airing this episode on the history of women's boxing, 337 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: and like we said earlier, why it took so long 338 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: for boxing to become a women's Olympic sport um and 339 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: and also just like all of these kind of side 340 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: debates that have popped up um in the meantime of 341 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: people wondering like should they be required to wear skirts? 342 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: Probably for sure, Yeah, and that's true. And we're not 343 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: talking about women's boxing in like the nineteen tins. We're 344 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: talking about women's boxing in in the two thousand's wondering 345 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: about skirts. Can you imagine Clarissa going out there in 346 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: like a tennis outfit? No, no, Serena Williams, Yes, she 347 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: can do anything. She wants wearing anything. Yeah. We also 348 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: mentioned people's fears about whether boxing is dangerous for women's boobs, 349 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: like hitting the boobs. Yeah, well, I mean getting punched 350 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: in the boob. It hurts, it does. Have you ever 351 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: run into a door frame so many times? But see, 352 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: I'm really flat chested, so usually my knees will hit 353 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: before my bo Well, you know, I gotta say, I'm 354 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: sure it's also not pleasant to to. Well, I'm I 355 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: guess I'm glad boxers don't use their knees question mark. 356 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, or that there aren't 357 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: door for doors and doorframes on boxing in boxing rings. 358 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: My coordination is so bad. Well, why don't we travel 359 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: back in time? Four years? I know? Can you believe it? 360 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: I really can? Kristen like side note, this summer is 361 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: the fifth anniversary of me joining you on the podcast. 362 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: Oh my God, And so it's funny to think that 363 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: we did this boxing episode four entire years ago. It 364 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like that long ago. It does not at all. 365 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: And I started listening back to the episode expecting us 366 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: to sound like little baby like welcome to stuff. Ma'm 367 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: never Nope, But it sounded exactly the same. And uh 368 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: now I need to just find out what the traditional 369 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: five year anniversary gift is, like Pewter or something. I 370 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: gotta get you, like some some Pewter headphones, microphone to 371 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: commemorate my neck. It's just worn down. I hope it's paper. 372 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: I know paper is one of the years. And if 373 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: it's paper, somebody's getting some Lisa Franks station. Oh God, 374 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: just saying. So we're gonna take a quick break and 375 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: then we come back. We're going to hop in our 376 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: podcast time machine and travel back to two thousand and 377 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: twelve to learn some fascinating history about this highly controversial 378 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: sport of women's boxing. So back in two thousand nine, 379 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: Kristen the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, made the decision 380 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: to add women's boxing to this year's London Summer Olympic Games. 381 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: And before this it had been the only sport reserve 382 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: for men. So now we're all equal A story over 383 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: kind of kind well okay, yeah, not really. There actually 384 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: is a debate raging currently about women's boxing and basically, 385 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: should women engage in a sport whose main purpose is 386 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: to inflict a damage on the opponent and that we 387 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: might even possibly knock them unconscious. That does not sound 388 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: very ladylike Caroline, which it sure doesn't. We might sweat, 389 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: how what I know it shouldn't be allowed. Well w 390 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: one note though, one historical note. Women have boxed at 391 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: the Olympics before, one other time at the nineteen o 392 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: four St. Louis Games, which was the first time that 393 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: the men's boxing debut at the Olympics, but women's boxing 394 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: was relegated to a display event. Well they were actually 395 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: both display events, but after the display event they were like, hey, men, 396 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: come on and the women, the women just just keeping 397 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: the little sideshow act that you are. Could you go 398 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: make us some sandwiches? Exactly? But it actually it has 399 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: so much more history or beyond uh nineteen o four. 400 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: Back in the seventeen twenties, the first staged women's prize 401 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: fights took place. This was in in England, and in 402 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: addition to punching and kicking, women could mall and scratch 403 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: their opponents, so it was more like just like a 404 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: cat fight in the ring instead of true boxing. And 405 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: then female prize fighting happened in eighteenth and nineteenth century 406 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: European fairgrounds and an exhibition halls. But then in the 407 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, also people started clamping down on the sport. 408 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: They were very uncomfortable was seeing two women in the ring, 409 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: and for that reason it was prohibited in many US 410 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: states and in Europe, and it was officially banned in Britain, 411 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: for instance, in eighteen eighty. But that didn't hold back 412 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: Barbara Buttrick, a Yorkshire born fighter who was one of 413 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: the those early renegades. And let's not forget in eighteen 414 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: seventy six, Nel Saunders and Rose Harland got in the 415 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: ring and duked it out over a silver butter dish, 416 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: because you know what a women need with a coppera 417 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: medal um and what is considered the first women's match 418 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: in the US. So they probably maybe inspired ms Buttrick. Yeah, 419 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: because then in the late fifties, in nineteen fifty seven, 420 00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: to be precise, Barbara became the first female box license 421 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: holder UM and she was in Dallas, Texas, and she 422 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: fought the second female boxing license holder, Phillis Coogler, for 423 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: the first women's World championship. And I think it's worth 424 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: pointing out that that Barbara was just ninety eight pounds 425 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: and four ft eleven. She's a little step fire, tiny yeah. 426 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: So then fast forward to and women's amateur boxing is 427 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,719 Speaker 1: finally integrated into the rules of the US amateur Boxing program, 428 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: and then is a pretty huge year for women's boxing 429 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: because of a bout between Christy Martin and dear Dreg 430 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: Gogerdy and Christie Martin one and she became the face 431 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: of women's boxing and actually made it onto the cover 432 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated, thus marking the birth of modern professional 433 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: women's boxing in the US. But the funny thing is, 434 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: if you go back and read that Sports Illustrated story 435 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: interviewing Martin, she could not give a hoot about women's boxing. 436 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: She liked boxing, but women, no, no, no, she says, 437 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: I'm not out to make a statement about women in 438 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: boxing or even women in sports. I'm not trying to 439 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: put women in the forefront. And I don't even think 440 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: this fascination with women in the ring has much to 441 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: do with that. This is about Christine Martin. Well, I mean, yeah, 442 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,959 Speaker 1: quite a quite a fighting spirit there, um, But the 443 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: whole profile of her just hammers home the thing of oh, yeah, 444 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: she's she's a boxer, so in that way in the ring, 445 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: she's you know, knocking out all these stereotypes. But at 446 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: home she's married to her coach and she really likes 447 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: to cook him dinner. For instance, include this quote from 448 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: her saying, if my house is on fire, I want 449 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: Mike Tyson carrying me out, not Christie Martin. So well 450 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: so big first four professional women's boxing, but Christie Martin 451 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: could care less. And then in nineteen nine we have 452 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: the first European Cup for women's boxing. In the first 453 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: World Championship for women is held not too long ago, 454 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: just in two thousand one. Yeah, and speaking of there 455 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: was this New York Times article talking about how the 456 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: trend in women's boxing wasn't so much that all these 457 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: women were coming coming out of the woodwork to compete 458 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: and go pro, so that they were all coming to 459 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: Jim's to get into shape. Right, But through this whole 460 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: exercise trend, actually a lot of the women who went 461 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: into exercise came out champions um and that In that 462 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: same New York Times article, they interviewed one of the 463 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: coaches who pointed out some gender differences among some boxers. Uh. 464 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: He told the Times that women are easier to train 465 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: than men because they are more relaxed and not as macho, 466 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: but then he goes on to point out how women 467 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: boxers do have more fragile psyches. Quote, you can't scream 468 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: at them like you would with a man, even though 469 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: sometimes I really want to. Those trouble making women. Um. 470 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: One of the women who went into a gym this 471 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: was I believe in in New York Long Island Baby 472 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: was Kathy Collins, who is originally from Georgia. She dropped 473 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: a hundred one pounds in the course of her very 474 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: strict exercise regiment and then turned pro. She won the 475 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: first women's pro boxing match ever held in Madison Square 476 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: Garden and her fights have been on pay per view 477 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: and ESPN and USA Networks, and she she loves the 478 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: sport and she said that it really gives you a 479 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: sense of strength and a greater sense of self. But 480 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: here's here's the latest controversy that has come up. Because 481 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: we'll get back to the Olympic stuff in a second, 482 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: But November two thousand and eleven, we've just been we've 483 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: been so liperaturely making these strides, getting more women in 484 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: the ring, toughening up, going into those those all male gems. 485 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: Not given a hoot, no hoots, given, no hoots, given 486 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: and then in November of last year, the Amateur International 487 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: Boxing Association this brilliant idea that female boxers should put 488 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: on skirts. Why not? They're women, right, they should be 489 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: wearing skirts. Maybe they should be barefoot in the ring too. Well. 490 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: Their argument was, how else are you going to be 491 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: able to tell if you're if you flip on a 492 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: on a boxing match, how else can you tell if 493 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: it's a woman up there? But a question that I 494 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: had and when I first I said out why I 495 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: said it out loud when I read this, and actually 496 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of people commenting on the articles about this 497 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: topic said the same thing. Why is it so important 498 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: to distinguish female boxers from mail boxers when you're watching 499 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: it on TV, or whether you know, even if you're 500 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: a spectator in the arena? Is it not just about 501 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: the boxing? And so all these issues come up about 502 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: discomfort with the lack of gender division or obvious gender division, UM, 503 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: discomfort with women entering a traditionally male dominated sport. Following this, 504 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: this announcement, the skirt fiasco UM the they held the 505 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: European Championships in Rotterdam and only two nations, Poland and 506 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: Romania decided to have their boxers wear the skirts in 507 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: the ring. Um and the Polish coach told the BBC. 508 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: By wearing skirts, in my opinion, it gives a good impression, 509 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: a womanly impression. Wearing shorts is not a good way 510 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: for women boxers to dress. So much ridiculous there in 511 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: that statement, right and then um on the heels of 512 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: all these complaints, not only from female boxers who are like, what, 513 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm not going to wear a mini skirt and also 514 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: outrage from the public, the president of the Amateur International 515 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: Boxing Association Association said, after we hear about its comfort 516 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: and how easy it is to compete in the uniform, 517 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: it may be compulsory. So he's he's trying to argue 518 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: that skirts are just an easy, breezy kind of thing 519 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: that you could just toss on and go just hop 520 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: into the ring, no need for shure. It sounds like 521 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: a makeup ad um. Yeah, well and a B A 522 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: or excuse me a I B. A spokesman recently came 523 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: out and said that, oh, well, we never we never 524 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: intended to make the mandatory after the president had said 525 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: that they could become compulsory depending on people's reactions to them, 526 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: and on February thirt of this year, boxer Tyresha Douglas 527 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: was quoted by Sports Illustrated as saying, we're women and 528 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: women should be wearing a woman's uniform. I mean, women 529 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: can wear shorts, but it's boxing. We need to look 530 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: more feminine under the headgear. You don't know if it's 531 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: a man or a woman. If we don't have boobs, 532 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: we're women and we need to let people know we're 533 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: women because you can't tell. But not surprisingly, Tyresia was 534 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: very much in the minority. There have not only been 535 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: some amateur boxers who have headed up a change dot 536 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: org petition to get the Amateur International Boxing Association to 537 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: abandon this skirt plan um, others have just spoken out 538 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: in the press against it. Because this decision um has 539 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: followed quickly on the heels of the the trials for 540 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: the Olympics. So there's been all of this focus on 541 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: women's boxing lately, and the skirt issue keeps coming up, 542 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: and so far, Torisha Douglas is the only person I've 543 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: heard who is really outright in favor. I found well 544 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: world champion fighter Mary Calm, She's from India. She compared 545 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: female fighters to female competitors in sports like tennis and 546 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: wear gender specific uniforms. But I mean, I think it's stupid. 547 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: And tennis, why, I mean, why should a female athletes 548 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: have to wear a skirt? Why can't she just wear 549 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: what is comfortable or what her coach wants her to? 550 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: You know what, did it matter? It just seems with 551 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: something like boxing too, skirts just don't. It's clearly a 552 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: thing to feminize these athletes and it's not. It's not 553 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: that necessary. For instance, Gara Hodge over at Gender Focus 554 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 1: put it very well when she said, um, the attitude 555 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: is clearly persisting today. This idea of um a team 556 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: of foxes and not boxes, which was a quote from 557 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty U S women's track coach Um and they. 558 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: She says that it's clearly persisting today as many female 559 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: professional athletes report feeling pressured to act and look feminine 560 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: outside of sport in order to compensate for their masculine strength. 561 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:24,720 Speaker 1: And what better segue than into the gender dynamics of boxing, because, 562 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: according to some sports scholars, boxing is the ultimate egalitarian 563 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: sport if you're a guy, because once you get up 564 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: in the ring, it doesn't matter your class, your race, 565 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: all your weight and size obviously will will play a role. 566 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: But once you're in the ring, all all of that 567 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: goes away, and you have one opponent and one mission 568 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: and that is to take him down. But when you 569 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: toss a woman in there, everything goes topsy turvy, right. Um. 570 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: Some researchers went to an Australian boxing gym and talked 571 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 1: to not to a bunch of people, but really focused 572 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: on interviews with three men and three women at this gym. 573 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: And this was a study in qualitative sociology from Faul 574 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: two thousand four called Suffragettes and Satin Shorts, Gender and 575 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: competitive Boxing, and it was interesting. They pointed out that 576 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: competitive boxing can be studied productively as a paradoxical gender 577 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: regime that simultaneously enables and constrains how women quote unquote 578 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: do gender. Um. There was one scholar that they quoted 579 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: um as saying raw aggression is thought to be the 580 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: province of men, as nurturing is the peculiar province of women. 581 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: The female boxer violates the stereotype and cannot be taken seriously. 582 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: She has parody, she has cartooned, she is monstrous. Yeah, 583 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: one guy, the researcher talked to said, boxing isn't a 584 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: female sport. Women are feminine. It's in the society. It's 585 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: probably not right. They've got breasts that are going to 586 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: get whacked. Although they have done research on whether or 587 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: not female boxing endangers are breasts, uh specifically whether or 588 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: not it could um uh cause breast cancer down the road. 589 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: No risk, Your breasts are safe. Yeah, boxing is pretty 590 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: it's a pretty safe sport. But the very fact that 591 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: that safety issue is one of the first things that 592 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: people bring up when they talk about women's boxing as 593 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: opposed to men's boxing, which we have, you know, just 594 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: accepted as yes, a little bit more more violent and 595 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: aggressive sport, but it's not, I mean, it's not something 596 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: that is on the forefront of our minds, it seems like. 597 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why these uh, this 598 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 1: gender issue with boxing is is really fascinating, because people 599 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: are so uncomfortable with the idea of women punching at 600 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: each other, right, And some of the guys in the 601 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: gym that these researchers want to were just that they 602 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: were they were totally uncomfortable with women who came into 603 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: the gym on a regular basis. It's one thing if 604 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: maybe you bring your your steady girlfriend or your wife 605 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: in there, somebody who's not going to try to distract 606 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: you with her her feminine wiles. But yeah, for the 607 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: most part, women in these boxing gyms were considered to 608 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: be distracting or weakening to men. Well, and I think 609 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: that this is um one of the reasons why this 610 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: Olympic Women's boxing landmark is is such a good thing, 611 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: not just because it's opening up that final sport to women, 612 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: but because a lot of the coverage that I've seen 613 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: of the boxing trials, which are now over, has been 614 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: really positive. You know, it's really painting these these women 615 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: as athletes is really strong and diverse and compelling, not 616 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: terrifying and monstrous and parodies of themselves. Yeah, exactly, they're 617 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: just strong athletes. Well, with that said, should we look 618 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: at who the winners of the boxing trials are absolutely 619 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: absolutely starting off with Marlon Esparza. She's the flyweight. She 620 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: actually had to gain six pounds to fit into to 621 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: fit her small frame into the really strict weight classes 622 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: that the Olympic Committee approved, so they only approved weight 623 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: three weight class divisions for a dred and twelve pounds, 624 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,360 Speaker 1: one thirty two and one sixty five, which has actually 625 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: caused a lot of concern about women either gaining too much, 626 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: losing too much, or dropping out. A Sparza, like I said, 627 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: gained six pounds and she postponed college because she had 628 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: her sight set on the Olympics. And coincidentally, her last 629 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: bout happened to be against Yresha Douglas, who we mentioned earlier, 630 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: who was pro skirts pro skirt just just thrown out well. 631 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: In the lightweight division, we have Queen Underwood, who was 632 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: a favorite going into the trials, and then there's also 633 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: Clarissa Shields who is the middleweight Caroline Clarissa Shields is 634 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: sixteen years old. That's amazing. Yeah, she's a high school 635 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: junior from Flint, Michigan who started boxing at the age 636 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: of eleven to make her imprisoned father proud. Yeah. There 637 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: is a really touching NPR story about about Shields and 638 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: her her boxing journey. You want to give it a lesson, um, 639 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: But the thing is, the journey does not stop for 640 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: these three women. Even though they made it through the trials, 641 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: they now have to go on to the World Championships 642 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: in China. Where they have to finish in the top 643 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: eight of their weight category in order to qualify for 644 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: the full Olympic event in London. So three women to 645 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: pull for. And you pointed out that they, you know, 646 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: the IOC boiled it down to the three weight classes 647 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: for men's boxing. They've got ten. Yeah. Uh. And coach 648 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: Christie Halbert said that about three thousand women register as 649 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: amateur boxers in the US in ten weight classes, and 650 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: she said that keeps the sports safe and to make 651 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: it fair, to celebrate the diversity of the human body. 652 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: And so the Amateur International Boxing Association is actually lobbying 653 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: the i o C to get more women into the Olympics. 654 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: There's also one quote from Queen Underwood's coach Bashir Abdullah 655 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: that I wanted to point out because it fits so 656 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: nicely in our conversation about gender and boxing, because initially 657 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: he was very uncomfortable with the idea of coaching a 658 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: female boxer, which kind of reminds me of Clint Eastwood 659 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: a million dollar baby um and he said, I didn't 660 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,320 Speaker 1: want to see women in this sport, which was based 661 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: on his religious beliefs, but he also wanted to keep 662 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: his job as a boxing coach with the U. S. Army, 663 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: So he adapted when the Army's World Class Athlete program 664 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: accepted women, and he was very glad that he did. 665 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: And he told NPR there are great athletes in this 666 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: women's sport. They're more focused, they're coachable, they're more determined, 667 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: and they're more disciplined than mail boxers, right, which echoes 668 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: what trainer Tom Malloy said that you mentioned earlier that 669 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: women are better at learning how to box, I guess, 670 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: although Malloy did follow it up with how we might 671 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: cry if you if you yelled us too hard. Fragile, 672 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: We're fragile, fragile people. Well, somebody else talking about Queen 673 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: Underwood that I like this quote. US boxing coaches Joe 674 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: Zanders was talking about her and staid, Queen can hurt you. 675 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: Queen is a killer. She has a nice doll like smile, 676 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: but you can't take that seriously because she has some 677 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: dog in her and she will get after you. It's 678 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: great embodying, you know, both ends of those. Uh, that 679 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: that gender dichotomy that everybody harps on so often. You know, 680 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: Queen Underwood, man, she's not gonna mount. And speaking of knockouts. 681 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: We have talked about, you know, the violence associated with boxing. 682 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: But the I A B A, the same association that 683 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: wants to put these women in skirts. According to fifteen 684 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: years of data, they have shown that women's Olympic style 685 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: boxing is safer than men's and compared to other sports, 686 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: women's boxing is incredibly safe. Yeah, and it has a 687 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: very low rate of concussions and hand injuries and pretty 688 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: much no rate at all of lower extremity injury. And 689 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: not to mention that the female athlete has a more 690 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: flexible neck, less shoulder and neck musculature and less upper 691 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: body strength than the male athlete, which means she might 692 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: not pack as hard of a punch, but she might 693 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: take one a little bit better than the dudes. Um. 694 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: And just to hammer home the point of the safety 695 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: of women's boxing, according to study from Australia, it is 696 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: much safer than pony riding, polo, touch football, even cricket 697 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:32,399 Speaker 1: and soccer. Okay, well there you go, but um, that's 698 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: studied by the A I B. A. Actually pointed out 699 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,239 Speaker 1: that you know, and what we already know this that 700 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: boxing is an excellent workout. That's why all those people 701 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: are going to boxing gyms to try to get fit. 702 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: For the average one forty pound woman, it burns nearly 703 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: eight hundred calories per hour, compared with riding a stationary 704 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: bike at six d and fifty calories per hour and 705 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,760 Speaker 1: jogging at nine hundred. But women are protected. They wear 706 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,320 Speaker 1: leather groin protector, they wear hard plastic cups and hearted 707 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: into a sports bra, and they were depending on the 708 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: weight that either were eight ounce gloves for women up 709 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: two d forty pounds or ten ounce gloves for the 710 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: heavier women. And of course amateurs wear headgear two So 711 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: they're in a safe sport. They're getting fit and they're 712 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: they're protecting themselves at the same time. But the one 713 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: big restriction women out there who are thinking about boxing, 714 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: if you are pregnant, you are not allowed to box. 715 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: Although there was a pregnant curler in the last Olympics, 716 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: but I guess you know curling is a pretty low 717 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: intensity sport, low contact. Yeah. If I remember seeing there 718 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: was it was like a big splashy headline like pregnant olympian, 719 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: Oh she's curling. Nothing against curlers out there were pregnant 720 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: women were pregnant curlers. We like all of these people, 721 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: but pregnant boxers, now, that is just a risk that 722 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: should not be taken. And now that we're four years 723 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: in the future, we're we're in UM don't know. I 724 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: how do you feel about pregnant women boxing four years 725 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: down the road? I still I stand by what we said, UM, 726 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: that that pregnant women boxing probably isn't a smart idea, 727 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: although we have so many active listeners who do all 728 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,720 Speaker 1: sorts of incredible things. Um and if there's anyone listening 729 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: who has been pregnant in box, or knows of a 730 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: pregnant boxer, or knows that it's like fine to box 731 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: while pregnant, I would love to hear from you. Yeah, 732 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: this is something we don't know. Yeah, it just seems 733 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: like it wouldn't be a good idea. You know, you 734 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: avoid sushi, soft cheeses, and boxing rings, that's what that's 735 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: what you do when you're pregnant, right, I think so 736 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: obviously I've never been pregnant. Maybe if they just hit 737 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: you in the face. Yeah, it's like eyes up here, 738 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 1: eyes and gloves up here. You have like a really 739 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: big you have to wear one of those um you know, 740 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: those big puffy bouncy suits, but just around like your bailly, 741 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: or you can just each for an inner tube. There 742 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: you go. Yeah. Um, And I wish I could go 743 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: back and tell you and me of two thousand twelve 744 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: that Clarissa won the gold and that she's back, She's 745 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: back in action. But it's almost like we're traveling back 746 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,280 Speaker 1: in time to tell our listeners that, yes, this is true, 747 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: sort of something like that. I don't know how time works. 748 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: I hear it's a circle, a flat circle. It is 749 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: a flat circle, and Matthew McConaughey teach that to us. Yeah, 750 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 1: that's that's what I learned. So are you going to 751 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: be watching women's boxing? Yes? And the gymnastics with the ribbon? 752 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: Oh yes, rhythmic gymnastic and I'll think of you. Ribbon 753 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: ribbon is a duance. I like, that's going to be 754 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: my version of that song. And that's what I'm going 755 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: to sing as I'm watching the rhythmic gymnastics. Please Facebook 756 00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:00,080 Speaker 1: live that when it happened. Listeners, Now we want to 757 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: hear from you. Are you a fan of boxing? What 758 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 1: do you think about the women's Olympic boxing that's been 759 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,399 Speaker 1: happening and the whole issue of them turning pro and 760 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: just generally, are you excited about watching ladies in the Olympics. 761 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 762 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: email address. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff 763 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: podcast or messages on Facebook, and we've got a couple 764 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: of messages to share with you when we come right 765 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: back from a quick break. Your to do list can 766 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: seem totally out of control some days, so much to 767 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: do and so little time. But there's one thing that 768 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: you can totally scratch off that to do list, and 769 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: that is going to the post office. Thanks to stamps 770 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: dot com, they let you buy and print official US 771 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: postage right from your own computer and printer, and they'll 772 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,720 Speaker 1: send you a digital scale that automatically calculates the exact 773 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 1: postage you need for any letter or package and any 774 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: class of mail. And right now you can sign up 775 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: for stamps dot com and use our promo code stuff 776 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: for a special offer. It's a four week trial plus 777 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: a one dollar bonus offer that includes postage and a 778 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: digital scale. So don't wait. Go to stamp dot com 779 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: before you do anything else. Click on the microphone at 780 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,959 Speaker 1: the top of the homepage and type in stuff that's 781 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:29,440 Speaker 1: stamps dot Com, Enter stuff and now back to the show. Well, 782 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: I have a semi related letter from Kendall. She was 783 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: responding to our Girls who Lift episode from a ways back. 784 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,280 Speaker 1: She says, thank you so so much for calling attention 785 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: to this issue. I started lifting about two years ago, 786 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 1: and it's been one of the best things I've done 787 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: for my body. I've always been a small girl with 788 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: a petite frame, so I was worried about bulking up 789 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,280 Speaker 1: and putting on a lot of size. And yes, ladies 790 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: who have that fear, you might see that number of 791 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 1: on the scale fluctuate up and down, but that's because 792 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: muscles really do way more than fat. I did put 793 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 1: on a little muscle bulk. I had to go up 794 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: a size and pants, but I love my muscles and 795 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: how crazy strong I am. For example, my boyfriend, who 796 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,320 Speaker 1: also lives and I have been through a few moves 797 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,520 Speaker 1: and we didn't need to hire a crew or even 798 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,360 Speaker 1: ask friends to help. We did it ourselves. Geez, Kendall, 799 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: I should have called you when I moved a couple 800 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 1: of weeks ago. My energy level is outrageous. It's helped 801 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 1: with my insomnia, posture, and overall confidence. Cheeze, that sounds awesome. Okay. 802 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: She goes on to say, there is still a great 803 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: amount of misconception about lifting. Even my doctor made a 804 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,560 Speaker 1: comment that my weight was going up over the last 805 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: few years, and that was after we discussed what I 806 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: do for exercise. I reminded her that I lift weights, 807 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,239 Speaker 1: but she didn't back down from her comment. And I'm 808 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: ashamed to admit I had a moment of not feeling 809 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: so great about myself. But I also have days when 810 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,960 Speaker 1: someone tells me how muscular I look, and I feel 811 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,720 Speaker 1: like a superhero. The biggest problem I've had with lifting 812 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: is the attitude I get from dudes at the gym. 813 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 1: It takes some confidence to walk up to the weights, 814 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 1: especially if you're being stared at. But worse than that 815 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: is a bunch of dudes hogging the weight area. I 816 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,920 Speaker 1: can't tell you how many times some guy has stolen 817 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: the bench I'm standing near before I can use it, 818 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,280 Speaker 1: because surely a girl wouldn't be using that. It's infuriating. 819 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: So I want to encourage all the lifting or soon 820 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,320 Speaker 1: to be lifting ladies out there to claim what's yours. 821 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,800 Speaker 1: She put that in italics. Don't let a bro dude 822 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: bully you around because he thinks chicks don't lift. If 823 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,359 Speaker 1: someone takes something you're using, say something. And if they're 824 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,799 Speaker 1: hogging a rack or a bench, ask them if they're 825 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: done because you want to use it. And no, you 826 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 1: don't need their help. All right, Kendall, thanks for the advice. Well, 827 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,359 Speaker 1: I've got a let her hear from Caroline about our 828 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 1: women Tattoos two parter, specifically correcting us on our misrepresentation 829 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: of Cat Vonde and I will say, We've got a 830 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: couple of letters about this. So Caroline helpfully informs us 831 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,560 Speaker 1: that while yes, Kat has gained a lot of popularity 832 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,400 Speaker 1: from her shows, but she is not just a pretty 833 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,879 Speaker 1: face on TV. Kat is widely regarded as one of 834 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,319 Speaker 1: the most skilled tattoosts in the business and is known 835 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: for her extremely realistic portraits, for which many consider her 836 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,399 Speaker 1: the best in that field. Along with this, Kat opened 837 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: up one of the most successful tattoo shops in the country, 838 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: High Voltage Tattoo, which always has a long waiting lists 839 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: of clients, and she often brings an artist from around 840 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: the world to do month long work periods in order 841 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,800 Speaker 1: to expose the local community to the great tattoo is 842 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,880 Speaker 1: around the world. She's also used her fame for numerous 843 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,280 Speaker 1: social justice campaigns, most notably her fight for animal rights. 844 00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: There are few, if any female tattoost who have reached 845 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: this level of success and recognition, and I'm really disappointed 846 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,280 Speaker 1: that you didn't give her the credit that she deserves 847 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,400 Speaker 1: her becoming a leading lady in a male dominated field. 848 00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: And she goes on to say, in response to your 849 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: request for lady tattoo is suggestions for a bird tattoo. 850 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,880 Speaker 1: Not sure what specific style you're going for, but definitely 851 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,960 Speaker 1: keep Cat in mind if you want a realistic tattoo 852 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: in black and white. Apparently she's one of the nicest 853 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: people you'll ever meet and has on interviews while giving tattoos. 854 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,800 Speaker 1: What a great podcast that would make. Oh, Caroline, I 855 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,959 Speaker 1: absolutely agree and we stand corrected on Cat Bondie, although 856 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,720 Speaker 1: I do think we mentioned that she is super talented. Um, 857 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, we were were by no means we're experts 858 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,919 Speaker 1: on Cat Bondie. So thank you to Caroline and other 859 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: listeners who have filled us in on what a rab 860 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: lady she is and if you got rad ladies to 861 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,719 Speaker 1: tell us about her, just thoughts you want to send 862 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,919 Speaker 1: our way. Mom. Stuff at how stuff works dot com 863 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of 864 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos, 865 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,839 Speaker 1: and podcasts with our sources. So you can learn more 866 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,359 Speaker 1: about women's boxing, head on over to stuff mom Never 867 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 1: Told You dot com. For more on this and thousands 868 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com