Speaker 1: Flying down with Jane Traylor and Michael Coughlin and I've
Speaker 1: heard radio podcast. Hey guys, we're back home in Nashville.
Speaker 1: Has it feel to be back? Um? When we walked in,
Speaker 1: it felt like we had been gone. It didn't feel
Speaker 1: like home. It was a very strange feeling. It felt
Speaker 1: like a long time. It felt like that's when I
Speaker 1: felt like a long time. But I miss I missed Vancouver.
Speaker 1: I miss our like I missed our friends there. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I just I miss it. But I am
Speaker 1: happy to be back though. Um. And we're in a
Speaker 1: new studio spot. Yeah. It was the former kids playing room,
Speaker 1: which became my you know, my dad getaway gaming room
Speaker 1: because the kids outgrew. I mean, this room is it's
Speaker 1: it's I mean it's yeah. We're on paper when we
Speaker 1: were building this house and we're like, Okay, this will
Speaker 1: be a nice size room, and like it's a closet,
Speaker 1: a closet. Very grateful, We're very grateful, not being snooty,
Speaker 1: just you know, but with a kid's player room, this
Speaker 1: isn't what we kind of imagine. So I was like,
Speaker 1: we gotta so we mixed our media room. So our
Speaker 1: media room is now the play room. In this room,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are we going to do with it?
Speaker 1: And Dad's like, well, I could get a love sack.
Speaker 1: And I was like, all right, if you're gonna put
Speaker 1: the kids in the media room, which is the room
Speaker 1: that I used to use, I was like, I at
Speaker 1: least need to get you know, love sack and another
Speaker 1: TV in this room. She's like a cart fine, and
Speaker 1: then after a while now she's like, Okay, there's no
Speaker 1: productivity going on in this room, so we have to
Speaker 1: do something productive. So what if we do to our
Speaker 1: podcast up here? And I was all for it, ah,
Speaker 1: but I was just worried because Jase's room is right
Speaker 1: across the hall and we do usually do so you
Speaker 1: would give every excuse to not have this move into
Speaker 1: his man cave, but we just don't have any other
Speaker 1: space to put it. And I just I hate that
Speaker 1: we have to, you know, put it up take it
Speaker 1: down in our bedroom again. This all is very like
Speaker 1: Champagne problem. But at the same time, every time I
Speaker 1: walk past this room, I get this weird like annoyance
Speaker 1: good it's going on in there. It's like there's a
Speaker 1: you know, and there's this big, oversized ridiculous love sack
Speaker 1: in the middle of the room, and I'm just like, like like,
Speaker 1: this has to change. So yeah, so now this is
Speaker 1: the podcast room and sometimes I get to buy but
Speaker 1: it's all good. No, it's actually good because I'm the
Speaker 1: one that sets everything up and takes everything down. So
Speaker 1: it's gonna be nice just to leave this stuff up.
Speaker 1: Unless now, if she starts coming by the rooms, like
Speaker 1: those chords and stuff everywhere, why don't you just clean
Speaker 1: up the podcast stuff and then when we come back
Speaker 1: in here to work you No, no no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that. I'm not going to say that.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's good. Having said that,
Speaker 1: we need to discuss the love sack that ain't going anywhere.
Speaker 1: Then the table needs to come down. Fine, where are
Speaker 1: we gonna put the table? Doesn't matter. Not go tell
Speaker 1: our listeners before we move on about other stuff, just
Speaker 1: a little bit about your moving your experience that we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about my breast augmentation that's about to
Speaker 1: happen here. Surely I'm talking about that too. I was like,
Speaker 1: I showed you because I didn't tell you that. I
Speaker 1: was like announcing it on socials no, you didn't. I
Speaker 1: found out from a third party. But the funniest thing
Speaker 1: was is one of my girlfriends thought that I had
Speaker 1: like a nip slip because I was like holding my
Speaker 1: my boob but like, you know, I was showing that
Speaker 1: like obviously I have saggy mom boobs. Um. But I
Speaker 1: will say I'm excited, but I'm nervous, and because especially
Speaker 1: everyone's commenting about the b I I stuff, which is
Speaker 1: the breast implant illness, and I'm like, you know, I've
Speaker 1: done so much research around it, but when I look
Speaker 1: at the symptoms, I'm like, it's like depression, Okay, anxiety.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I think I had b I I
Speaker 1: without even breast implants in me. All that for you.
Speaker 1: But it is good to know about it, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's good to um. You know, it's good to be informed.
Speaker 1: And I also think people have been nice about it.
Speaker 1: But also I just don't want I think what I think.
Speaker 1: It's okay. I think some things just might not work
Speaker 1: for some people. And if I end up getting a
Speaker 1: bi I and I start feeling more depression or more
Speaker 1: of this, then I'm gonna be like, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get them out, which but I really think, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many women that are fine, so I just
Speaker 1: have to focus on the positive. Are you ready to
Speaker 1: take care of me? H? Yeah? I told Catherine because
Speaker 1: we're Katherine, We're talking about it, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to not gasp when I
Speaker 1: show you my boobs. I'll never forget. I showed her
Speaker 1: my boobs after because look, my ariolas just never have
Speaker 1: gone backed down from like after having kids. And she's like,
Speaker 1: I was like, is this normal? And she goes and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's not the reaction I wanted.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's a salami. Just tell everybody out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, who cares. I'm like whatever. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like and I go back to when I was doing
Speaker 1: the movie. This kind of goes back to the movie.
Speaker 1: I'm like changing in the car, you know, changing in
Speaker 1: the because I had it was eight I think it
Speaker 1: was sixty, Yes, sixty costume changes in the movie, and
Speaker 1: most costume changes in the movie is like it's sixty
Speaker 1: and like going back and forth. Well, I didn't have
Speaker 1: time cameras, Like, I didn't have time to go back
Speaker 1: to my trailer and change like I was just like,
Speaker 1: is there an empty hallway? But by then in the movie,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, things are flying off and it
Speaker 1: was I think it was my driver. She was just
Speaker 1: like it's nice to I'm like, look, we all have boobs,
Speaker 1: we all got you know, stuff, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't we don't need to sexualize it. And I think
Speaker 1: that's when all the like, that's when I started kind
Speaker 1: of like having those conversations because I'm like, but we
Speaker 1: don't need to sexualize it. Is I have boobs, you've
Speaker 1: got boobs, you've got a penis. I gotta like, we
Speaker 1: don't need to Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're fighting against
Speaker 1: years and years and years of uh advertising and marketing
Speaker 1: towards sexualizing the human body. I know. I'm just sick
Speaker 1: of it. No, I I get it, I get it.
Speaker 1: I mean unfortunately sex Cells does it anymore though, because
Speaker 1: I feel like it's they go they're going so overboard
Speaker 1: because it's like every single show, I'm like, where's the
Speaker 1: seventh Heaven? Give me like wholesome seventh Heaven, Like where
Speaker 1: they don't like have you know, just every scene I mean,
Speaker 1: and don't get me wrong, like Britain was like my
Speaker 1: soft porn. Like I loved it, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, like does it have to be every show?
Speaker 1: Which I was like thrilled that Queen's gam but didn't
Speaker 1: have like a throw down, do you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: I just feel like it's so over the top. It
Speaker 1: is it is. And we talked about this a while back.
Speaker 1: I worry even I just like fast forward some things.
Speaker 1: I'm just like why it's not necessary in some parts.
Speaker 1: And my fear is that, like with the success of
Speaker 1: Bridge Retain, there's gonna be other shows that try to
Speaker 1: come out and be that intense. Yeah, but the movie
Speaker 1: was good. I had a lot of fun. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of scared for people to see it because I
Speaker 1: don't even know how it's going to turn out. I
Speaker 1: had a total panic attack the day of and I
Speaker 1: ended up reaching out to Chantel my winter Hill Coastar,
Speaker 1: and she kind of talked me off the cliff. Where
Speaker 1: were we having a panic attack about? Um? I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't do it. M I mean, I know. Joke
Speaker 1: was like I was crying in my trailer day one,
Speaker 1: like full on crying and just like having a massive
Speaker 1: panic attack. I'm like, what am I thinking? I can't
Speaker 1: play this part. I've never like I'm just the Christmas girl,
Speaker 1: I'm just the like fluffy. Hey, we're having a Winner
Speaker 1: festival in my hometown. So it was. And then the
Speaker 1: first scene sucked. So I don't even want to watch
Speaker 1: that scene. I hope I hope it gets cut, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you, because I was just so nervous.
Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm excited for the final product
Speaker 1: because I think it's going to instill the confidence in
Speaker 1: you that a lot of us are around you that
Speaker 1: support you. See. We see, we know you're able to
Speaker 1: do that. We know you're talented enough. Two, you know,
Speaker 1: really act and be a different character, you know, and
Speaker 1: find parts of that character in yourself and utilize that
Speaker 1: to your ability. And I think I think two is
Speaker 1: good for you just to kind of to stretch your
Speaker 1: wings a little bit and not get stuck in that
Speaker 1: same routine of the Christmas festival and here's this and
Speaker 1: here's this's just great. I love Christmas. I'm not knocking
Speaker 1: that at all, And I'm great that's what you've done recently?
Speaker 1: Yea more of um because you've never you haven't done
Speaker 1: anything like this since I've been with you, you know,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited for it. I'm excited for you. I
Speaker 1: think you're gonna impress yourself with how good it turns out.
Speaker 1: Um Eastern are you? Yes? It has. Ever since I
Speaker 1: saw you in that prison jump suit, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? Is this Orange is the new Black?
Speaker 1: What is happening? I can't wait to see this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get arrested, I get shoved into it like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's crazy. It's based on a true story.
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say anything really about it yet,
Speaker 1: but it really was fun and I I just hope
Speaker 1: it turns out good. But if not, there's always twelve
Speaker 1: days of Christmas. It will It's gonna be great. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of fun. And how are you, babe? Like,
Speaker 1: we're back them now? You had the kids for such
Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, yeah, I'm good now to have
Speaker 1: you around and to be able to bounce things off
Speaker 1: of you and stuff. But you know, we talked about it.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes you know, when we used to have help
Speaker 1: a lot, and we'd have the kids friendly like an
Speaker 1: hour or two that day because we had a lot
Speaker 1: of work stuff or whatever going on. It was almost
Speaker 1: like it was harder when we only had them a limited,
Speaker 1: limited amount of time. But then when we had them
Speaker 1: all the time, like during most of quarantine, you're not
Speaker 1: as quick to get aggravated and it just becomes part
Speaker 1: of your routine. And so that was it for me.
Speaker 1: It's just like your parents, right you just step up
Speaker 1: and that's what you do. It's like, this is my
Speaker 1: role right now, this is what needs to be done,
Speaker 1: this is my responsibility, and you just fall into it.
Speaker 1: Do we talk about the blow up fights that we had.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Man, those are over and done with.
Speaker 1: I'd rather leave them there. It's funny. I I was
Speaker 1: doing questions on my Instagram and someone was like, well,
Speaker 1: there's a few that were like you looked really sad
Speaker 1: a few times, like in Canada, and I didn't answer
Speaker 1: those ones, and then another one I when I did
Speaker 1: answer there, they said, um, not to be nosy, but
Speaker 1: I did notice that you slept alone a lot in Canada,
Speaker 1: like at night, because I would do like a good
Speaker 1: night posts and it's like, obviously you're not there. So
Speaker 1: I answered that question. I was like, well, truthfully, first
Speaker 1: and foremost I would I worked later the normal, and
Speaker 1: so then I would have to get up or I
Speaker 1: would want to sleep in, and like, I'm not the
Speaker 1: person that can like if I hear anything in alarm
Speaker 1: or I'm up. And so I was in another room.
Speaker 1: Out of the kindness of my heart, I said, But
Speaker 1: then the other times we're fighting and Mama gets the master. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've are successfully kicked you out
Speaker 1: of the room. I think one time you tried, and
Speaker 1: I was like what You're like, no, you get I've tried.
Speaker 1: You've definitely tried, but I don't stop. So then you're
Speaker 1: just like getting screw it. I'm going to bed. I'm tired.
Speaker 1: They were bad though they were bad blow ups. Why
Speaker 1: do you think we had the blow ups? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there's no matter what, no matter what, like
Speaker 1: going into a situation like that and you're accepting your roles.
Speaker 1: I think you know, just like you know with there
Speaker 1: when there's someone in the relationship that stays home with
Speaker 1: the kids all day, right, and where it's the wife
Speaker 1: of the husband come home, whoever is going to work
Speaker 1: comes home, it's like they're tired from work. Well, the
Speaker 1: other the other ones tired from being with the kids,
Speaker 1: and it's that kind of push and pull of who's
Speaker 1: more tired. Well, I've been with the kids all day,
Speaker 1: so you said, up what, I've been working all day.
Speaker 1: So I think there's some of that light resentment of
Speaker 1: you're freaking exhausted, like you're working all day. You know,
Speaker 1: you're like maybe needed more things from me, And then
Speaker 1: I'm with the kids and it's hard just to like
Speaker 1: pop by and see you from time to time because
Speaker 1: it's with both kids and bringing them, packing stuff and
Speaker 1: and so it's just I think there was some of
Speaker 1: that and the fact that we weren't able to see
Speaker 1: each other and connect. So it was my text message
Speaker 1: to you accurate. Then we're like you wanted to be
Speaker 1: in the supportive role, but at the same time you
Speaker 1: had a resentment of being in that role. No, it
Speaker 1: was more about like resentment I felt, I felt like
Speaker 1: lack of respect of like what I was doing where
Speaker 1: even though I did say many times like thanks for
Speaker 1: holding it down, yeah, because I think at times, you know,
Speaker 1: when like when you had breaks and I'll bring the
Speaker 1: kids Out's great because you got to have time with them,
Speaker 1: But when it was when like you're going to work
Speaker 1: and you'd have to do hair and makeup and you
Speaker 1: when the kids to come for a little bit. It's like, all, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jolie is cool for a minute, like she's fine sitting
Speaker 1: in like the makeup chair and getting her hair and
Speaker 1: makeup done or something too. But Jason and I are
Speaker 1: sitting in the trailer and at ten by ten trailer
Speaker 1: for an hour like that's not you know, that's not
Speaker 1: fun for him or I And yeah, you get to
Speaker 1: kind of have some time, but not really so it's
Speaker 1: for me. It was like, if you want some time,
Speaker 1: let's let's do it on your break, which I think
Speaker 1: pretty much every break that you had that would that
Speaker 1: lined up with the kids schedule, I brought him. But
Speaker 1: it's like some of those other times, I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: if she's not realized it is hard to just come
Speaker 1: by and sit here while she gets to steal a
Speaker 1: few minutes here and there with the kids. Where I
Speaker 1: like start having this thought and like that's selfish? Ever,
Speaker 1: like is she being so like I know, I know
Speaker 1: how you are, Like, I know you want to see
Speaker 1: the kids so bad. It's not really from a selfish
Speaker 1: stamp point, but you know it's doing all doing all
Speaker 1: that and having the kids and taking it back and
Speaker 1: forth and having their schedule is tough too. So I
Speaker 1: think at times like it's like I was expected to
Speaker 1: just come whenever you wanted me, come whenever you needed me,
Speaker 1: and then okay, I'm done. I'm done with you guys.
Speaker 1: I gotta go work, go home, you know. So I
Speaker 1: think that's what it was. It wasn't about resentment about
Speaker 1: being in that role. I am. I embraced that role
Speaker 1: going into this, I think it was, and you did.
Speaker 1: You did verbally affirmed me several times, and I tried
Speaker 1: to do the same to you, because I know. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's one thing, right, Like people even if they listen
Speaker 1: to this and complain about how hard it was or whatever,
Speaker 1: it's like people do not realize unless they stay spend
Speaker 1: a whole day on set, what actors like, what you
Speaker 1: guys have to go through, how long the days are,
Speaker 1: how exhausting it is, how much you have to learn,
Speaker 1: how many moving parts there are. You could do things
Speaker 1: perfect five times, but every time there's someone else messing up,
Speaker 1: the cameraman's messing up, this is out of place or whatever.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot that you have to deal with
Speaker 1: and you're exhausted, and so you know, I tried to
Speaker 1: do my best to support you and be there. And
Speaker 1: then when you weren't feeling supported or appreciated in things
Speaker 1: like you know, that was hard too, because I always
Speaker 1: trying to make a point to be supportive. Mm hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see, there's gears working. I'm just listening. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it makes it makes sense. It's just there's always the
Speaker 1: other side, you know, which I think is hard in
Speaker 1: these kind of situations for sure, which is exactly what
Speaker 1: I was saying. Why I compared it to just the
Speaker 1: daily husband and wife whoever is again working or not.
Speaker 1: Each person has those feelings of just you want the
Speaker 1: other persons to your way, but it's just not not
Speaker 1: really the case because you both are in different shoes,
Speaker 1: you're both in different situations, so you can't fully respect
Speaker 1: the other person's exhaustion or or whatever. So I think
Speaker 1: that's that was the thing. It was like we had
Speaker 1: that underline. There was again, your schedule was all whacked
Speaker 1: out of place, so we didn't have the connection at
Speaker 1: the time that we really wanted. By the time the
Speaker 1: weekend came, you know, we didn't always get along and
Speaker 1: we just try to make it about family time and
Speaker 1: so you know that was just tough. Can I ask
Speaker 1: you if you've thought about like where the when you
Speaker 1: get to that point the like the mean words come from,
Speaker 1: Well that has something to do that that fight was
Speaker 1: about something else what it was still mean none the
Speaker 1: other stuff too. Though. I'm just curious because I mean,
Speaker 1: I know where like mine, like when I get upset,
Speaker 1: I mean or I get like um, because it's you know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like that respect either, you know mm
Speaker 1: hmm um, but like I don't want to hurt you.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like curious, like if anything has come
Speaker 1: up for you recently that like you've realized like oh,
Speaker 1: like why you go there? Because I think some people
Speaker 1: want to understand why someone says things they don't mean it,
Speaker 1: but when they say it, it hurts the person and
Speaker 1: for like me not to hold the people to hold
Speaker 1: onto it. Do you see what I'm trying to say? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's my you know, it's my ultimate like it's my
Speaker 1: last defense to be happy, respected or heard. I'll talk
Speaker 1: about the mean words no saying is it to be
Speaker 1: because you want to be heard? Like what is it
Speaker 1: like that you're like wanting when someone's mean to their
Speaker 1: partner with words like, what is it really like? What
Speaker 1: are they really asking for? Is it to be heard?
Speaker 1: Because I want to understand too, so that the person,
Speaker 1: me and other people don't take it personal. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's being heard and being respected. It's when
Speaker 1: when I'm trying I try to use my words because
Speaker 1: I never just immediately go there. It's always as we
Speaker 1: start to argue, as we start to have conflict, well,
Speaker 1: and we always want to we when we fight, we
Speaker 1: we both want to be heard, and so we're just
Speaker 1: saying it louder and more and we escalate. Like in
Speaker 1: our therapist watches us, he literally is like I'm watching
Speaker 1: it happen. It's like no, but hear me, but hear me,
Speaker 1: and then it just keeps going. Yeah, it's just and
Speaker 1: when it gets to that place and I just I'm
Speaker 1: not being hurt, I'm not being respected, and even when
Speaker 1: I try to say it from a good place, it's
Speaker 1: just being devalued. I'm just like, yeah, it's just like
Speaker 1: you know, hitting the red button just I don't know
Speaker 1: what else to do, and it's unhealthy and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to kick all that and it's been a long time
Speaker 1: since I've used mean words and gotten mean like that,
Speaker 1: and it sucks, you know, I feel bad, feel bad
Speaker 1: that I did. Um, what's something that? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: because we've all we've all said mean words like what's
Speaker 1: something that like maybe your therapists told you or like that?
Speaker 1: You see, like what you can do to not say
Speaker 1: mean words because I know for me, like for me
Speaker 1: not to be aggressive, like I have to physically walk away.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this. I'm not hoping you. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to like like I'm saying, we both have so
Speaker 1: much to work on, you know. I'm just like trying
Speaker 1: to understand that more because I take I think, like
Speaker 1: what's from the big bomb fight that we kind of
Speaker 1: had in Vancouver. The words are what have have stayed
Speaker 1: with me and you don't mean those, but those are
Speaker 1: the worst things that stay with someone. So it's like
Speaker 1: I don't want to you know what I'm saying. Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm trying to say, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want people to have to keep those in their brains
Speaker 1: because that's not the truth. So it's like, Okay, if
Speaker 1: you can spin it and try to understand your partner.
Speaker 1: But there's no understanding of justifying like mean words being said, right,
Speaker 1: and you and I are different. You said some mean
Speaker 1: words and mean things to me and I I don't
Speaker 1: hold onto those like you do. But we're different people
Speaker 1: and that's okay. Mm hmm. You said mean things? Really
Speaker 1: had that look like I didn't? I like, yeah, you do,
Speaker 1: you did. I said mean things, but you cut deep
Speaker 1: like you take my mean where. It's like I'm like
Speaker 1: you're in a hole and you're like Europe like where.
Speaker 1: It's like you take it like I'm like high school.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're like X rayed mean. Now, neither are right.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. Neither are right, zero percent. Neither are right.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Like you know, name calling those
Speaker 1: things are bad, but it's like you know what you do. No,
Speaker 1: it's just me trying to force the upper hand or
Speaker 1: force respect, which is just a bad way to do it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, I try to do things
Speaker 1: like say I'm not in a good place to talk,
Speaker 1: but you don't really hear that. You know I tried that.
Speaker 1: If you times so, I you know, I probably should
Speaker 1: have just gotten up and walked away because in the
Speaker 1: big blow up at the beginning, I feel was like,
Speaker 1: I'm out in place to talk. You kept going. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm out a place to talk. I said it louder
Speaker 1: and louder, and you kept going. You kept going, but
Speaker 1: you said the thing before and then I went down.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, no, no, no, you do
Speaker 1: not get to come like like that's you didn't say
Speaker 1: any want to talk about At that point, I was like,
Speaker 1: you can. I don't care. We're going because I was
Speaker 1: offline then after that comment. Welcome to the train wreck, guys.
Speaker 1: Let's wind down with Jana and Mike. We can't wait
Speaker 1: to be back with another new guest. I think next week, though,
Speaker 1: we have a guest coming on about what was The
Speaker 1: book is called How Not to Fight? Everyone Fights, Everyone
Speaker 1: fights or but I think, look, the moral of the
Speaker 1: story is they're going to be nights where Mike is
Speaker 1: maybe not in bed. We might have blow ups. Everybody fights,
Speaker 1: everybody fights. I think it's just you don't want blow
Speaker 1: ups all the freaking time. You don't want them weekly,
Speaker 1: you don't want them monthly, you know, but we might
Speaker 1: have a big I mean that was that's that's been
Speaker 1: it's been a you know, and I think there was
Speaker 1: a lot of factors that went into it. But we
Speaker 1: have to now from that, like go to our therapists
Speaker 1: and dissect things and dissect things and process them because
Speaker 1: there's underlying things that you know, we're feeling and we
Speaker 1: need to discuss it and not hold on to it,
Speaker 1: because if you're holding onto any underlying stuff, it's just
Speaker 1: gonna have You're going to have another blow up because
Speaker 1: you're just shoving things down for the next big blow
Speaker 1: up and that's not healthy. So if you're holding onto things, no,
Speaker 1: it's tough, right because like maybe I had things coming
Speaker 1: up during the time up there, but it's like I'm
Speaker 1: not going to have enough on your plate. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to bring that to you right now. And then
Speaker 1: it's like you say something kind of attacking me, and
Speaker 1: then that's like opens that cam. Yeah, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been holding onto myn so I don't bother you or
Speaker 1: stress you out. You know, wait till we get back
Speaker 1: home and have a couple of session and here you
Speaker 1: are saying to me and I just want to blow up,
Speaker 1: you know, So I mean again, that's and that's all
Speaker 1: I was saying at the end, like I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to get home because I just I just want to
Speaker 1: get back to not that like, yeah, a routine of
Speaker 1: just having time together, having fun together, being connected, you know,
Speaker 1: going to sleeping in the same bed, and you know, well,
Speaker 1: and I think because a lot of those nights were
Speaker 1: just because I needed to sleep in because I was
Speaker 1: But that's disconnecting us, not even being in the same bed.
Speaker 1: And like like this morning we went you went back
Speaker 1: to being like I appreciate you, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: in my heart, I was like I forgot what that
Speaker 1: felt like to like say those words to each other
Speaker 1: because it's such a nice way to start the day.
Speaker 1: And we didn't. We weren't able to start the day
Speaker 1: like that. It's almost like we just were starting the
Speaker 1: day just frustrated, annoyed and tired and just because we're
Speaker 1: just on different schedules. Yeah, it was just it was hard.
Speaker 1: Some moral of the story, try not to hold things in,
Speaker 1: communicate from a good place and don't be high school
Speaker 1: Janna or college and Mike. All right, let's take your
Speaker 1: break and we'll get the zen. Mamas. Oh, it's all
Speaker 1: a good fight. Let's do it all right, So let's
Speaker 1: welcome our guests. We have Teresa Palmer and Sarah Olsen,
Speaker 1: who are the Zen Mamas. They're both too successful, very
Speaker 1: successful actresses and moms with multiple children. So you know,
Speaker 1: we're just talking to you a little bit. And Teresa,
Speaker 1: you have five kids, including the one of your belly.
Speaker 1: And Sarah, how many do you have? Um, I have
Speaker 1: three kids. I just had um a daughter back in September.
Speaker 1: She's six months old now. And that was your rainbow baby, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: that was my rainbow baby. That's just like the best. Right,
Speaker 1: it's like you forget. It's not that you don't forge
Speaker 1: it's not that you forget the pain, but just like
Speaker 1: it it makes sense in a in a weird way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean it's definitely. I think for me personally,
Speaker 1: it made for a little bit more of an anxious
Speaker 1: pregnancy and um, you know after having a loss and
Speaker 1: then I mean I was very excited, but I was
Speaker 1: also experiencing this pregnancy during the pandemic, so um, that
Speaker 1: anxiety of the pandemic on top of also I previously
Speaker 1: had a loss and then um, but you know, once
Speaker 1: I had her, it was just like it couldn't have
Speaker 1: been a better mix of happy hormones, because I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, I was blown away. For sure.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I just found out
Speaker 1: one of my girlfriends is pregnant and this is going
Speaker 1: to be her rainbow baby. And I'm like, look, just
Speaker 1: so you know, it is normal to wipe every time
Speaker 1: you go to the bathroom and think it's going to
Speaker 1: be blood. Like, it's just until you're thirty eight, thirty
Speaker 1: ninemies pregnant, you will you will do that and that's normal,
Speaker 1: and it's I could tell you a million things, but
Speaker 1: it's you're not going to stop thinking that it's the worst.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you uys did it today. I was like,
Speaker 1: let me just check. Oh my god, that quess is
Speaker 1: fine and I'm weeks pregnant. It just doesn't go away,
Speaker 1: does it. But I think again, like once you you know,
Speaker 1: you have the baby and you can feel that zen um.
Speaker 1: But how do you guys, how do you guys find
Speaker 1: your zen um? Oh well, it's fun. We have a
Speaker 1: probably a different definition of the terms zen then what
Speaker 1: a lot of people do. I think that word can
Speaker 1: be synonymous with, you know, the perfect family. Everyone so
Speaker 1: well balanced children wear linen and frolic through fields of daisies.
Speaker 1: You know, it's definitely not that gives such a false
Speaker 1: sense of reality. UM. And I think we probably have
Speaker 1: Instagram to blame for that. But our version of zen
Speaker 1: is just really embracing the chaos and the unexpected moments,
Speaker 1: the peaks and valleys of parenting and just trying to
Speaker 1: find those moments of calm in amongst it all, liberating
Speaker 1: ourselves from the perfect picture of how our parenting should look.
Speaker 1: So that's really what we we call it zen Ish Finish.
Speaker 1: So you guys first started like the whole zen Mama thing,
Speaker 1: It all started as a blog correct and website. Yes, yeah, Teresa,
Speaker 1: had I been doing yours in life she started that website.
Speaker 1: When did you start that, Teresa? That would have been
Speaker 1: like two thousand and ten with Phoebe Tounkin we did that.
Speaker 1: That was like a wellness website, um, exercise and eating
Speaker 1: healthy and you know, trying to find balance. And then
Speaker 1: of course when we became parents. UM. I think for me,
Speaker 1: it's sort of just organically shifted into oh, now how
Speaker 1: do I do all those things and bear mother? Um?
Speaker 1: And that's where Sarah came in because she was really
Speaker 1: interested in doing it a blog as well, and we
Speaker 1: just sort of put these ideas together and then our
Speaker 1: community was born. That's fantastic. So in the community, what
Speaker 1: can we first of all, where can you know, other
Speaker 1: mama's find the community? And then also like what is
Speaker 1: you know, what's one thing that is it? Is it?
Speaker 1: You know, just parenting? Is it? Also relational stuff? What
Speaker 1: what else can like they find in the community. Sure,
Speaker 1: so it's um yours and mama dot com and then
Speaker 1: we have Instagram, Facebook as well as at yours and
Speaker 1: Mama and UM. You know, when Teresa and I started
Speaker 1: this space, we were looking for, you know, what's our
Speaker 1: who's in our community that we can talk to and
Speaker 1: reach out to because, um, my family doesn't live here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles where I live in. Teresa like, she travels,
Speaker 1: not stop for work. So you know you're right now
Speaker 1: you're talking to her. She's in Estonia shooting a movie.
Speaker 1: She was just here in l A like a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and then a few weeks before that she
Speaker 1: was in Wales and in Australia. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: so hard when you're not planted somewhere and you have
Speaker 1: your community of people around you, and so when we
Speaker 1: first became mothers, we were kind of the first of
Speaker 1: our friends to do that, and UM we really longed
Speaker 1: for community setting, you know, other women to share ideas
Speaker 1: and stories. And so when you come to Yours and Mama,
Speaker 1: you can read articles about everything from UM someone who's
Speaker 1: wanting to be a mother and going on that, you know,
Speaker 1: fertility journey to UM breastfeeding multiple kids at the same time,
Speaker 1: you know tan and breastfeeding. You can read articles about
Speaker 1: pregnancy loss, and that's you know, kind of where our
Speaker 1: book came into play is that we took all of
Speaker 1: that information and kind of developed UM into a book
Speaker 1: where you can you know, it's from the moment you
Speaker 1: first have that idea all I want, I think I
Speaker 1: want to be a parent to all the way through,
Speaker 1: like what does that look like? What kind of parent
Speaker 1: do I want to be? So every step of the
Speaker 1: journey along the way for for both of you, for
Speaker 1: being traveling working mothers, you know, what kind of advice
Speaker 1: do you have or in your experience have you gone
Speaker 1: through for other women out there and other families out
Speaker 1: there dealing with a career that does take you all
Speaker 1: over because you know, we just got back from Vancouver
Speaker 1: with Jana being up there filming for six weeks, and
Speaker 1: it's you know, taking both the kids. And I come
Speaker 1: from more of a conservative mindset of all right, one,
Speaker 1: once the kids are in school, you're not missing a
Speaker 1: day and you can't be traveling. And Mama bear here
Speaker 1: is like, like, I mean my babies with me, So like,
Speaker 1: how have you guys personally managed that whole thing? We
Speaker 1: have a rule that the family sticks together. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: see a little happy dance over there, but it's important.
Speaker 1: It's so important for the whole crew. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: actually I came to that decision. Um when my son
Speaker 1: was was little. I was working with an actress and
Speaker 1: she said, you know, one of my regrets is that
Speaker 1: I left my child, you know, with her father when
Speaker 1: I would go off and film for these long stretches
Speaker 1: of time. And her daughter had now grown up, and
Speaker 1: she said, Mom, why didn't you just bring me with you?
Speaker 1: Bring me with you, let me adventure and have this
Speaker 1: global experience and keep us as a family unit. And
Speaker 1: she Um, that was one of the really most important
Speaker 1: pieces of advice I got. This is before my son
Speaker 1: was in school and she said, bring those babies with
Speaker 1: you and bring them everywhere and keep that family unit together,
Speaker 1: and school figure itself out. You will learn from the world.
Speaker 1: You will learn from those experiences. You can home school,
Speaker 1: You can do so many amazing creative things with the
Speaker 1: kids in terms of learning and just just being in
Speaker 1: different surroundings. Is um. You know, they're absorbing so much.
Speaker 1: And I find that we're going to stone here right now.
Speaker 1: And you know, today, as a part of his lesson,
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, let's go outside and you know,
Speaker 1: throw snowballs and we can talk about temperature and how
Speaker 1: other cultures live and this is how you know, these
Speaker 1: families who live in such a wintry environment, this is
Speaker 1: how they have fun and look for these toboggans and
Speaker 1: so you can you find yourself learning on the guard. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's our family rule. We just stick together. My
Speaker 1: husband travels with us, My mom tries to travel with
Speaker 1: us as well as much as she can, and we
Speaker 1: just make it work. We try, and you know, he'll
Speaker 1: work for a period of time, then I'll work for
Speaker 1: a period of time. So so far, so good, but
Speaker 1: things might change, and then we will have that conversation
Speaker 1: when those things start to seem like they're shifting. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say that I tried it the other way.
Speaker 1: We've always stacked together as a family. But my husband's
Speaker 1: been on a show here in Los Angeles for like
Speaker 1: twelve years. UM, this show called inn C I s
Speaker 1: l A and UM. They work you know, eleven months
Speaker 1: out of the year uh here, and so I have had,
Speaker 1: you know, to go and and travel outside of l
Speaker 1: A to work, um quite a few times. Then when
Speaker 1: we had our son, UM, I went to shoot a
Speaker 1: movie outside of l A. And it was really hard.
Speaker 1: It was really hard for Eric. UM. I felt bad
Speaker 1: for him because I was taking our son somewhere else
Speaker 1: and you know, he would come and visit, but then
Speaker 1: he would have to go back and he wouldn't see
Speaker 1: him for a couple of weeks. And he's such a
Speaker 1: present dad, you know, and he just I think, gets
Speaker 1: so excited every day to see the kids when he
Speaker 1: comes home. So you know, that was really tough on him.
Speaker 1: And then this last time when I went to shoot,
Speaker 1: I went to shoot in Toronto, UM, and it was
Speaker 1: it was in two and nineteen and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've never done this before, but I'm gonna like try
Speaker 1: to make a deal where I go and I can
Speaker 1: only be there for like three days at a time,
Speaker 1: and then I'll fly back. I'll fly back every single week. Right,
Speaker 1: it was a nightmare. I mean, shooting the show was amazing,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, it came with this massive
Speaker 1: um heartache of like I'm away from my kids. I'm
Speaker 1: completely exhausted because I'm getting on a flight. The moment
Speaker 1: I say my last line, I'm racing to the airport,
Speaker 1: flying home. Got to be with my kids for a
Speaker 1: couple of days, and then I'm racing back again. And
Speaker 1: every single week for almost four months, I flew back
Speaker 1: and forth to Toronto and it was great, airline miles
Speaker 1: amazing like so many but it was a nightmare and um,
Speaker 1: and I think something that this last year has taught
Speaker 1: us where we've sort of had to park it, and
Speaker 1: you know, our industry was shut down for a while,
Speaker 1: was you know, what is it that I really want?
Speaker 1: Do I do I want to go out of town
Speaker 1: and shoot a show or a movie, or do I
Speaker 1: just want to like try to work here and then
Speaker 1: you know, when Eric's off, if we can shoot something
Speaker 1: out of town, great, But what's most important, and I
Speaker 1: agree with all of you, which is like keeping our
Speaker 1: family unit together that has been you know, the silver
Speaker 1: lining is being able to be this little unit during
Speaker 1: this time. Yeah, I mean, I obviously agree with you girls,
Speaker 1: because I just think because yeah, I just we're not
Speaker 1: good when we're apart and the kids aren't either, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's and I'm not when I'm not with my
Speaker 1: kids for three days, like I'm a psycho and I
Speaker 1: I'm not good at work and I'm not like I'm
Speaker 1: not fun to be around on set. Like even when
Speaker 1: I didn't see the kids for like the one day
Speaker 1: you guys couldn't come see me on set and I
Speaker 1: didn't see them all day, I was just like I'm
Speaker 1: a terrible mom of crying in my trailer like what
Speaker 1: am I? Why am I doing this? Like why am
Speaker 1: I acting? Like why am I away from my kids?
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, it's just it's that that
Speaker 1: mom guilt that guys, And I'm not not trying to
Speaker 1: be mean, but like you can be like, no, we're
Speaker 1: staying here and they're going to you know, you know,
Speaker 1: public school. They can only miss eight days, So I'm
Speaker 1: like that means that then mom can't work and and
Speaker 1: I can't not not be with my kids. Like I know,
Speaker 1: Dad's they I mean, he's Michael. My husband is a
Speaker 1: very hands on dad, so hands on just like y'all's husbands.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's still but we still need them
Speaker 1: to with us. I think that, Yeah, I think that's where,
Speaker 1: at least for me personally, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: can speak for all husbands. I try not to take
Speaker 1: it personally because I kind of do where I'm like,
Speaker 1: the kids are with the second best person that could
Speaker 1: possibly be with their with their father. Like it's not
Speaker 1: like you're leaving them and there with a nanny or babysitter.
Speaker 1: They're worth dad. So I was like, I get that
Speaker 1: you want to see them, but it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: I promise, like they're with daddy and it's and I
Speaker 1: say again, a part of me takes it personally when
Speaker 1: really I just have to let that go and realize, no,
Speaker 1: this is just a mom being a mom and she
Speaker 1: needs her babies no matter who who who. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really not about you. It's not about the trust either.
Speaker 1: It's like there's no one I would trust my kids
Speaker 1: with more than my husband, Like he's amazing and I
Speaker 1: love that. It's just that for you know, it's more
Speaker 1: about me and how I operate and you know function.
Speaker 1: It's like I didn't function with I had that Mark
Speaker 1: like too about a week and a half ago because
Speaker 1: he's not with us in Estonia. He's back in l A.
Speaker 1: And he was like, how about this time we try
Speaker 1: something where I take the boys and you have poets.
Speaker 1: And I was like, absolutely not and he was like,
Speaker 1: but but I'm there, dad, and have so much fun
Speaker 1: with me. And I was like, I actually won't be
Speaker 1: able to function. I won't be at He's like, you
Speaker 1: had the space to do your work. I was like,
Speaker 1: I won't be doing my work. I will quit my job.
Speaker 1: I will say I can't handle this. I'm coming back home.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, I win. I'm taking the children. Supportive,
Speaker 1: I know. And I was like, all right, whatever you need. Hey,
Speaker 1: this is Becca Tilly and Tanya Rada Rad that's me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And we have a podcast called scrubbing In. Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: We are two best friends and we love Gray's anatomy,
Speaker 1: hence the name scrubbing In exactly. And this week we
Speaker 1: have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own Anthony Hill, who
Speaker 1: plays Winston, on the podcast to chat about what's been
Speaker 1: going on. If you follow Grey's Antomy, you know that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There
Speaker 1: are sudden deaths, people are coming back this season. There's
Speaker 1: a whole lot going on. It is a huge season
Speaker 1: for Grey's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in.
Speaker 1: And you're not just gonna get Gray's Anatomy. I mean
Speaker 1: we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like
Speaker 1: you're talking with your best friends on the couch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: except not with your best friends. You're talking with us,
Speaker 1: your virtual best friends, virtual bfs. That's right. So listen
Speaker 1: to Scrubbing In on the I Heart Radio app on
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Do your
Speaker 1: husband's ever have to force you to do something? Because
Speaker 1: when I was in Vancouver, the director and through the
Speaker 1: cast mates or like let's all go to dinner, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's on my day off, and like
Speaker 1: I really need to put the kids down, and you know,
Speaker 1: Michael's like go to dinner. But I was like I
Speaker 1: was like getting highs, like being like but I really
Speaker 1: should like put them down, right, babe, Like I need
Speaker 1: to come home. So You've had to put them down
Speaker 1: every night this week. I'm like, yeah, and I'll put
Speaker 1: them down again and guess what, They've woken up every
Speaker 1: morning and I can manage to put them down again.
Speaker 1: And I know you can, but I think it's just
Speaker 1: like he has to literally force me to do something
Speaker 1: for myself. Yes, exact clue the same, and I feel guilty.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I haven't done bedtime with them at
Speaker 1: all this week, and that's my one time to go
Speaker 1: home and do bedtime. And I'm such a home body
Speaker 1: as well. So I'm just saying my husband's like get
Speaker 1: out there, like go do the cast, you know, go
Speaker 1: meet the people you're working with, interact with them. Like what,
Speaker 1: you still have an identity, you are still a woman
Speaker 1: behind the mother in your guys as. What was the
Speaker 1: hardest thing for you to write that you still have
Speaker 1: a hard time with personally. Hmm that's a good question. Yes,
Speaker 1: I know. I really like that, and I'm like, what,
Speaker 1: you know, It's funny because I feel like through out
Speaker 1: the writing process, um, you learned so much. You know,
Speaker 1: there's so much that you're researching, and you're going inward
Speaker 1: as well to figure out like how do I feel
Speaker 1: about this and what does this mean to me? And um,
Speaker 1: and I think you worked through a lot, you know Thereason,
Speaker 1: I wrote this book, um, over the course of like
Speaker 1: we did the Australian edition. First Theresa was, um, you
Speaker 1: just had the baby. Yeah, you were pregnant. I was pregnant,
Speaker 1: then had the baby, yeah, the exactly. And she was
Speaker 1: like writing in the back of a RV going across
Speaker 1: country trip with her family. And then when we were
Speaker 1: doing the U s edition, I was super pregnant in
Speaker 1: the pandemic and um, I'm writing from an air stream
Speaker 1: sitting outside of a barn in Idaho, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just funny because you're like you're having these experiences, um,
Speaker 1: staying up late at night, the children are sleeping, you know,
Speaker 1: you're typing away and and you're like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: kind of it. This is a big part of the book,
Speaker 1: which is just like finding those moments, um, of peace
Speaker 1: in all of it. And what is it when you
Speaker 1: make time for yourself, when you connect with your partner,
Speaker 1: when you connect with your kids, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I think through our process, um, you you, we kind
Speaker 1: of like learned a lot, and it was very important
Speaker 1: for us to write a chapter all on its own
Speaker 1: about pregnancy loss, which I think is probably the most
Speaker 1: impactful chapter for us, the two of us during that experience,
Speaker 1: because Teresa can speak to this, but she started writing
Speaker 1: it in her voice because she had experienced pregnancy loss
Speaker 1: at the time, and that was certainly to answer your question,
Speaker 1: that was a lot of reopening of old wounds. So
Speaker 1: just kind of taking myself back there and being back
Speaker 1: in that ultrasound room and hearing that news and sort
Speaker 1: of the like immediate crashing down of the dream of
Speaker 1: who this little person would be. I mean, you already
Speaker 1: create what they look like, a star sign and what
Speaker 1: the age gap is going to be between your children,
Speaker 1: and sort of created this little person in your mind,
Speaker 1: and then that sort of and just gets ripped away
Speaker 1: from you. So I would say for me, the most
Speaker 1: challenging part was the reopening of old wounds. And then
Speaker 1: something quite profound happened to us, which was that I
Speaker 1: had written We did chapter by chapter so Sarah would
Speaker 1: tackle She tackled the pregnancy chapter and I tackled pregnancy loss.
Speaker 1: Then we've sort of switched chapters and at our own
Speaker 1: voice to the other person's chapter, and you know, I
Speaker 1: sent her through the chapter and as she was sort
Speaker 1: of reading through it, Sarah experienced her own pregnancy lost
Speaker 1: and it was so it was such a moment that
Speaker 1: just takes your breath away, because the very reason we
Speaker 1: wrote this chapter was these moments that were happening in
Speaker 1: real time to Sarah, and she was able to read
Speaker 1: through the words and feel comforted and held and we
Speaker 1: just knew, oh, this is this is the reason why
Speaker 1: we wrote this. H Wow. Well, I mean there's a
Speaker 1: million girls out there that are going to be so
Speaker 1: thankful for this book. So I'm excited to get this
Speaker 1: episode out and get this you know, share this book
Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean there's it's one of my most
Speaker 1: asked questions. But minus our relationships, you know, how do
Speaker 1: you how do you deal with miscarriage? You know, because
Speaker 1: it's it's not easy and it feels so isolating. So
Speaker 1: you know, I appreciate you girls putting your words on
Speaker 1: paper and so that all these women and you know
Speaker 1: men too, can maybe read to understand and because you
Speaker 1: guys go through your own battle as well. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think for us I mean, it's any knowledge that y'all
Speaker 1: get helps us because we just want to understand you, right,
Speaker 1: Like we're trying to be supportive. We're trying to you know,
Speaker 1: kind of manage everything and while also having our own
Speaker 1: and you know, separate, independent feelings. But it's hard to
Speaker 1: be there for somebody when you don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And so any kind of literature, any kind of you know,
Speaker 1: people opening up about it. If it helps you, it
Speaker 1: helps us because then you guys will start talking about it,
Speaker 1: we'll understand more. We can be a better support system,
Speaker 1: because that's like an ultimate helpless feeling, right like, how
Speaker 1: do we make that better? And as your husbands, we
Speaker 1: just want to protect and make it better immediately, but
Speaker 1: there's no way to do that. Absolutely. I do remember
Speaker 1: my husband there being that moment, you know, I was
Speaker 1: reading through that chapter of the book and I called Teresa.
Speaker 1: I'm like fully crying and I'm telling her everything, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know this, these reading these words
Speaker 1: is helping me so much because truly connecting with other
Speaker 1: women and hearing their stories, UM was the thing that
Speaker 1: I think made me feel the most held through that process.
Speaker 1: And UM but I remember there being a moment when
Speaker 1: I like, I looked at my husband, who had been like, okay,
Speaker 1: if you know, if this, if that happens, everything will
Speaker 1: be okay. We'll just try again. And you know, he
Speaker 1: has that thing that men have, which is the like,
Speaker 1: all right, how do we soldier through? And let let's
Speaker 1: fix it? And you know, guys are such doers. And
Speaker 1: so in that moment I saw him start off that way.
Speaker 1: And then I think the next morning he woke up
Speaker 1: and I could tell like it really hit him and
Speaker 1: he even said, you know this I had I didn't
Speaker 1: know that this would be so hard for me. And
Speaker 1: he was like this is um, I'm really sad, and
Speaker 1: I was like, me too, I'm really sad too, and
Speaker 1: these you know, this chapter that Tracy wrote is really helpful.
Speaker 1: And so I went back and actually added a little
Speaker 1: thing to the end of that chapter that said, um,
Speaker 1: you know, while we were in the editing process, I
Speaker 1: experienced pregnancy loss. And this was something that became very
Speaker 1: important for us to put on into the world because
Speaker 1: it helped me. Let me, I want to ask all
Speaker 1: three of you this because even us going through miscarriages
Speaker 1: ourselves never really asked like what is it about a
Speaker 1: miscarriage feels so like, why does it feel so secretive,
Speaker 1: so isolated, isolating as an experience, like for women, I'll
Speaker 1: let you girls go first. Well, I just think there's
Speaker 1: been this really long held stigma surrounding loss. And we
Speaker 1: actually in our book sort of break down the terminology miscarriage,
Speaker 1: and even just that word implies that it's the fault
Speaker 1: of the mother because she's miss carried her baby, And
Speaker 1: the majority of miscarriages or pregnancy losses as we prefer
Speaker 1: to use that term, um, happened because of nothing the
Speaker 1: mother has done at all. In fact, it's your body
Speaker 1: recognizing for the most part that your baby isn't compatible
Speaker 1: with life UM. And I just think there was such
Speaker 1: shame there has been for such a long time surrounding
Speaker 1: the fact that these little babies were being lost, and
Speaker 1: no one was talking about it because of that stigma,
Speaker 1: because of that feeling surrounding it. But now and noticing
Speaker 1: that that narrative is changing, and we're seeing people even saying,
Speaker 1: as Sarah recently, even some of like Chrissy Teagan who
Speaker 1: has such a large platform, and coming out and saying
Speaker 1: this happened to me, and this happened in This was
Speaker 1: a second trimester loss. This is a really devastating thing
Speaker 1: that that she was going through, and she was so
Speaker 1: brave and open and vulnerable to share that. But it
Speaker 1: helps you feel less alone. And so I'm really glad
Speaker 1: to see that the story is it's shifting and now
Speaker 1: there's a community of people out there willing to embrace
Speaker 1: you and say, talk about that baby. How did it
Speaker 1: feel to be pregnant with that baby? Um? And I
Speaker 1: love that. I'm so glad it's headed in that direction.
Speaker 1: I do think that people, um, I had a really
Speaker 1: hard time knowing how to respond when you tell them
Speaker 1: that you had a pregnancy loss. And I think that
Speaker 1: part of the reason why it's probably been a sort
Speaker 1: of thing that's been kept secret is that you are
Speaker 1: looking to not have that uncomfortable moment of being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I actually, yeah, I'm not pregnant anymore. I've lost the baby,
Speaker 1: and then it's like silent and the person's like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, this is sorry, but like they don't know
Speaker 1: how to communicate with you because they also don't necessarily
Speaker 1: maybe they haven't experienced it, so they don't necessarily see
Speaker 1: it as a grief like losing someone who was already
Speaker 1: earthside right, like that was already here with us. So
Speaker 1: but actually it is like there's so many we grieve
Speaker 1: in so many different ways, and I do see it
Speaker 1: as um pure grief. And I you know, told Terrace
Speaker 1: of this, but I had lost my dad when I
Speaker 1: was pregnant with my daughter Esme, and Um, I think
Speaker 1: that going through that process of grief and understanding what
Speaker 1: that looked like and just being such a big thing
Speaker 1: at in my life by losing my dad that when
Speaker 1: I had my pregnancy loss, like I really felt, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh this is this is grief again, and
Speaker 1: I need to pay attention to it and I need
Speaker 1: to treat it that way. I don't want to put
Speaker 1: it aside. I don't want to hide it, like I
Speaker 1: need to talk about it. And then I also need
Speaker 1: to take care of myself because I understand that this
Speaker 1: is a that my body is going to go through
Speaker 1: all the stages and you it's not like you can
Speaker 1: stop it, but if you allow it to happen, you
Speaker 1: can really get through and try to you know, help
Speaker 1: yourself heal um. And so you know, I think just
Speaker 1: grieving before actually helped me to understand that that's what
Speaker 1: this process was going to be, and how you can
Speaker 1: be a friend in that it's just to listen and
Speaker 1: be there. Sent my friends sent me flowers, and I
Speaker 1: was like I was kind of embarrassed at first because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and is that And and then
Speaker 1: I was like why am I embarrassed about that? Like
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful that they thought of me and sent
Speaker 1: me flowers, and there's nothing to be ashamed of, you know.
Speaker 1: And and my other girlfriend like brought Chucklin and wine
Speaker 1: over and we sat and cried and laughed and you know.
Speaker 1: And so I think that there's a way that you
Speaker 1: can really show up for your friends just by being present,
Speaker 1: just sending a love note, you know, just in any way.
Speaker 1: But um, part of it I think is because of
Speaker 1: you're afraid of what someone's reaction might be. How don't
Speaker 1: you have anything to add to that? I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean for me, it was like when the miscarriages happened,
Speaker 1: it was like I have one job to do, and
Speaker 1: that's to bring a baby into this world, and like
Speaker 1: I'm broken because I can't do that, and like it's
Speaker 1: somehow my fault. And that's why I like when we
Speaker 1: were discussing having a third baby, and I said, I
Speaker 1: I don't want to carry again. Is because I don't
Speaker 1: want to be the reason that my baby doesn't come
Speaker 1: to term. You know, I want to give it it's
Speaker 1: the best shot, because I think that like I'm broken somehow,
Speaker 1: like there's and it's just the women just carry that
Speaker 1: that shame, even though, like you said, Teresa, it has
Speaker 1: everything to do with but I'm like, but but maybe
Speaker 1: it is me because I needed more progesterone, right, like
Speaker 1: or my lining is and good or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It's like, but I just I don't want to be
Speaker 1: the reason that like I just don't feel like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm woman enough, or like I just feel like a
Speaker 1: broken woman. Yeah. And that's like the common thread that
Speaker 1: connects us, I think, and then it sees us through
Speaker 1: motherhood too. I mean, that same self critical voice follows
Speaker 1: us through the whole journey. UM, And we really try
Speaker 1: to address that in our book. Is just liberating ourselves
Speaker 1: from that, um, the judgment and and and the shame
Speaker 1: and the guilt that comes with this entire beautiful, colorful
Speaker 1: journey of parent home. So with all that said, everyone
Speaker 1: needs to get this Zen Mama Guide to Finding your
Speaker 1: Rhythm in Pregnancy, birth and beyond. Ladies, cannot thank you
Speaker 1: enough for such an awesome conversation. Let's all keep that
Speaker 1: family unit together. And I just appreciate. I feel more
Speaker 1: zen now, So thank you, invalidated, Sure, thank you, ladies,
Speaker 1: appreciate guys, thank you. Um. I love those girls because
Speaker 1: their mamas is like the perfect title for them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like they just seemed just so seen. It feels I
Speaker 1: feel seen, yeah, and just like just a presence about them,
Speaker 1: even via a computer screen. It's just so calming and
Speaker 1: confident and open. Um. So no, that's really cool that
Speaker 1: they came out with all this stuff and and again
Speaker 1: giving women another resource, very useful resource too, you know,
Speaker 1: take you along the most empowering adventure that you could
Speaker 1: possibly go on. You know. Um, well, this is a
Speaker 1: fun episode and I'm excited because next week we have
Speaker 1: um two authors coming on. And since you know we
Speaker 1: talked about fighting earlier in the episode, their book title
Speaker 1: is everyone fights, Everybody fights, so why not do it better? Exactly? Um,
Speaker 1: keep fighting the good fight, guys, and we'll see you
Speaker 1: next week.