Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janna Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 1: All Right, it's your Wine about It Thursday Therapy episode.
Speaker 1: I am really excited to have Terry Cole on. She's
Speaker 1: a licensed psychotherapist, global relationship and empowerment expert, and the
Speaker 1: author of Boundary Boss, which we're gonna be talking about today.
Speaker 1: It's the essential guy to talk true, be seen, and
Speaker 1: finally live free. She's worked with many clients from stay
Speaker 1: at home moms to celebrities and Fortune five hundred CEOs,
Speaker 1: and so let's get her on to talk about her book. Hey,
Speaker 1: Terry people, how are you, Terry. I'm Janna Yan Janna.
Speaker 1: How are you doing? You know what I'm doing pretty good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. Yeah, I feel I'm feeling good. I had
Speaker 1: therapy yesterday, so I'm feeling you know, centered, and but
Speaker 1: you know, they still have things to work on, right
Speaker 1: like we all do life life exactly. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you. Your book sounds amazing
Speaker 1: and it's I saw a little thing from it. So
Speaker 1: this book is for women who are exhausted from overgiving, overdoing,
Speaker 1: and even over feeling if you're getting it all done
Speaker 1: at the expense of yourself, give yourself the gift of
Speaker 1: boundary boss. And if you could, like, what is a
Speaker 1: boundary boss to you? It's someone who knows themselves. You
Speaker 1: know your preferences, your limits, your deal breakers, you have
Speaker 1: the ability to share them readily with the people in
Speaker 1: your life. Really, being a boundary boss means living a
Speaker 1: self determined life because you're not spending all your time
Speaker 1: people pleasing and self abandoning. Right. It's interesting though, I've
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of how do I say I've I've
Speaker 1: been a people pleaser. I'm going on the opposite. I'm
Speaker 1: learning to not just people please and I'm learning to
Speaker 1: have better boundaries. But it's interesting. I had I kind
Speaker 1: of ran into a little bit of a situation the
Speaker 1: other day where someone had texted me something and I'm like,
Speaker 1: normally and I did even in that moment, I laughed,
Speaker 1: I go hah, even though I didn't think it was funny,
Speaker 1: and I kind of wish this person wouldn't text me that, right, So,
Speaker 1: trying to do better in my work, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to set a boundary to hey, don't please don't.
Speaker 1: I don't need to have these text message being sent
Speaker 1: to me right, So I said, hey, for the future,
Speaker 1: I would appreciate it if you don't send these kind
Speaker 1: of text messages as I just don't like, I'm in
Speaker 1: a different place in my life and I don't really
Speaker 1: care about this message and so I would just appreciate
Speaker 1: that moving forward. But their response was wow, like wow,
Speaker 1: just trying to be respectful, and I'm like, and I go,
Speaker 1: my tone was not a great I'm just simply saying
Speaker 1: but I'm like. I then felt like I had to
Speaker 1: defend myself for my boundary and that's where I was like,
Speaker 1: and so I did because I wanted them to know,
Speaker 1: because I know text is so hard right with tone.
Speaker 1: So then I said, I think you're mister understanding my
Speaker 1: text tone. I also just need to express to you
Speaker 1: that I don't want to get these messages anymore, and
Speaker 1: that's okay for me to ask that. But then I
Speaker 1: felt guilty and then I was like, oh, shoot, should
Speaker 1: I call this person and be like, hey, sorry, But
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm not sorry. I said what I
Speaker 1: needed you took it as offensive. So now I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like, what do I do. Well. Part of it
Speaker 1: is you're not that fragile, so you being uncomfortable for
Speaker 1: a little, It is okay because you're doing something new.
Speaker 1: This will become if you keep going, Jenna, this will
Speaker 1: become your new normal. And we can care that someone
Speaker 1: else didn't like, love our boundary and lovingly hold on
Speaker 1: to our boundary. Right, You weren't making that person wrong.
Speaker 1: He didn't say you're a jerk for sending it to me.
Speaker 1: You basically said I would not like to receive these
Speaker 1: going forward, and lang could help you know, I like to.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of them sentenced stem sort of
Speaker 1: starters of And even in that situation, let's just say,
Speaker 1: if we had a redo, you could type I'd like
Speaker 1: to make a simple request that in the future you
Speaker 1: leave me off of this type of text forward or
Speaker 1: whatever the person was doing like this, I'd appreciate. Thank you, right,
Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate that. So I also assume that
Speaker 1: people are going to do it I want them to
Speaker 1: do when I've set a boundary, So thank you for
Speaker 1: respecting my boundary. So what we're setting them up a
Speaker 1: by calling it a simple request, because here's the truth,
Speaker 1: everything we ask from anyone is a simple request. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're going to do it, but certainly, it's
Speaker 1: not complicated for that person to stop sending you text
Speaker 1: messages right right now, it's simple right now. But then
Speaker 1: now they think I'm being aggressive. Here's the thing though,
Speaker 1: what they think is their side of the street. Oh
Speaker 1: it's so hard for me because I want to say, like,
Speaker 1: that's my tone. Wasn't like that, Like I don't like
Speaker 1: that's where my work is still getting there. But also,
Speaker 1: let yourself be uncomfortable. Have compassion for the fact that
Speaker 1: you did something that felt scary. You did a brave
Speaker 1: thing that you know is aligned with better mental health
Speaker 1: for you, which is why you did it, And give
Speaker 1: yourself credit for that, and let yourself feel a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. We hate to feel misunderstood, right, we
Speaker 1: hate to feel that someone is misconstruing. But here's what
Speaker 1: really matters is what your intention was, which was to
Speaker 1: set up a limit with this person that you are
Speaker 1: asking them not to cross by don't text me those
Speaker 1: things in the future. That's your right. You could go
Speaker 1: be totally agro and like completely block them, like you
Speaker 1: know that there's you're not being extreme right in what
Speaker 1: you said or what you did, but your desire to
Speaker 1: control their feelings. Right. This really goes this is you know,
Speaker 1: disordered emotional boundaries, but it goes into codependency. Right. There's
Speaker 1: a certain amount of codependency that comes when you think about,
Speaker 1: like what is codependency? Right? We hear all about it,
Speaker 1: but does anyone really understand is that you're just wanting
Speaker 1: the other person to be happy above your own happiness. Listen,
Speaker 1: that's a simple way of putting it. But it's more
Speaker 1: than that, right, Right, Because if I were to describe it,
Speaker 1: I would say my definition of codependency is being overly
Speaker 1: invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the decisions, the
Speaker 1: circumstances of the people in our life, to the detriment
Speaker 1: of our own internal peace, or to the detriment to
Speaker 1: our mental wellness, our financial wellbeing, our physical wellbeing. Right.
Speaker 1: Because maybe you're giving somebody money or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and what is at the base the basement of that,
Speaker 1: The foundation of that is disordered boundaries. Because we are
Speaker 1: unclear where we end and that person begins. We feel
Speaker 1: overly responsible for their feeling, We feel overly responsible for
Speaker 1: what we think they're thinking. Right, we want to change it.
Speaker 1: But again, at the base of this is a covert
Speaker 1: or overt bid or desire to control the other person,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we just have to go it's okay. If
Speaker 1: they misunderstand me, it's okay. You don't want to have
Speaker 1: to justify the crap out of your no or out
Speaker 1: of your request, or out of anything, because it is
Speaker 1: your right to have your text message space be a
Speaker 1: sacred place for you. Right. You want to protect yourself
Speaker 1: and whatever that thing was that you didn't like, that's
Speaker 1: your right. And if people are going to get offended,
Speaker 1: and they will at times, especially if this is new behavior,
Speaker 1: and especially if these are established or older relationships. So
Speaker 1: when we think about starting to have better boundaries in life,
Speaker 1: communicating more effectively the people that it can be the
Speaker 1: most challenging with our family of origin because when you
Speaker 1: think about what are boundaries, what are relational stuff, It's
Speaker 1: they're like dances, right, It's like I do this, you
Speaker 1: do that, you do that, I do this. It's like
Speaker 1: a well sort of orchestrated and understood way of behaving.
Speaker 1: When we change that dance, the people we've been dancing
Speaker 1: with the longest, obviously they're going to notice that you're
Speaker 1: changing your steps, and that's okay. They feel threatened. The
Speaker 1: reason why people get offended. Part of it is ego,
Speaker 1: of course, but a lot of times when we're starting
Speaker 1: to change and you or do something different or establish
Speaker 1: new boundaries, people are afraid that we're going to change
Speaker 1: so much that we no longer want them in our life,
Speaker 1: or that they'll lose us in some way. They may
Speaker 1: not be conscious of this, but I can tell you
Speaker 1: being a therapist for twenty five years, this fear is real.
Speaker 1: And so it's not just their desire to sort of
Speaker 1: control you or make you admit that you were wrong.
Speaker 1: It's a fear that this is like a new interaction
Speaker 1: in this relationship. We don't normally interact this way, and
Speaker 1: it's scaring me. So I always say, listen, we can
Speaker 1: set boundaries with kindness, with love. We can set boundaries
Speaker 1: with more heat when we need to right if it's
Speaker 1: like Bob from Accounting, who's being inappropriate, Like a little
Speaker 1: heat might be good, but that's on us. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of the myths around healthy boundaries is
Speaker 1: that if you have them, year a bit. If you
Speaker 1: have them, you're rejecting people left and right, or verbally
Speaker 1: punching people in the face. Or being all aggressive, and
Speaker 1: that really isn't true because healthy boundaries usually have some
Speaker 1: flexibility to them. Right. If we think about the ways
Speaker 1: that boundaries can be disordered, you can have boundaries that
Speaker 1: are too loose, which are called poorous boundaries. You can
Speaker 1: have boundaries that are too stiff, right, and this is
Speaker 1: having rigid boundaries. So if you have someone who's like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's my way or the highway, get out, that's not
Speaker 1: someone who's healthy. That's someone who has disordered boundaries. They're
Speaker 1: rigid boundaries because that's unnecessary unless something is extreme, unless
Speaker 1: someone is being violent, words an abusive, or a toxic
Speaker 1: toxic situation. Generally, we don't need to be like my
Speaker 1: way or the highway. We can assert ourselves. Whoever's on board, grade,
Speaker 1: whoever's that's fine too. So I think the myths around
Speaker 1: it is that a lot of times people mistake rigid
Speaker 1: boundaries is for being masterful at boundaries, and it just
Speaker 1: perpetuates the myth even more right, it just makes people
Speaker 1: not want to be good at boundaries with all of
Speaker 1: this fear of what will other people think about me?
Speaker 1: That's definitely the piece that I've struggled with is the boundary,
Speaker 1: sticking by the boundary piece because I don't want to
Speaker 1: hurt anyone's feelings offend them. And just like you said,
Speaker 1: I mean definitely called me out on that. It's like
Speaker 1: my uncomfortableness too, and that where it's you know, a
Speaker 1: situation happened even a couple months ago where it's like
Speaker 1: normally I would hug an enemy and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't need to have I don't want to hug that person.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not going to and that uncomfortable feeling
Speaker 1: I sat with and then it went away, but I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, it showed me that I can do it.
Speaker 1: But also it still was like I'm the kind of
Speaker 1: person like I just want I just want everyone to
Speaker 1: be happy, you know, like happy, happy, happy, everything's fine,
Speaker 1: Like even like how i'd handle with my ex husband.
Speaker 1: Now it's like I just I just I just want
Speaker 1: everyone to be happy, right, so blessed. I don't want
Speaker 1: the drama. I don't want the I just I don't
Speaker 1: want any of it. So that piece is almost interfering
Speaker 1: with my boundary piece. Well, here's the thing. I totally
Speaker 1: understand you. I am you. I was like, I totally
Speaker 1: get it because we're lovers, right, We're like, life is good.
Speaker 1: Let's just all get along, Like, what's the problem. It's
Speaker 1: not a big deal, it's fine. Like we're always the
Speaker 1: ones who were like, I'm happy to take one for
Speaker 1: the team. It's fine, forget it, let's do what she
Speaker 1: wants it. I'm But what happens is if that worked
Speaker 1: as a long term goal, there'd be no problem with that.
Speaker 1: But the thing is it doesn't. What ends up happening
Speaker 1: is that if we self abandoned too much in the
Speaker 1: service of keeping the peace, quote unquote, you know, as
Speaker 1: Cheryl Richardson would say, you know, you start a war
Speaker 1: within yourself that the result is feeling resentful. So when
Speaker 1: we overgive or over accommodate or whatever it is that
Speaker 1: we're doing, we end up feeling like, instead of taking
Speaker 1: responsibility in our own mind for like I offered to
Speaker 1: do this, what happened for me in my twenties is
Speaker 1: that I started feeling I was really resentful of everyone.
Speaker 1: I kept thinking like, I can't believe how entitled these
Speaker 1: people are. I cannot believe that this person would ask
Speaker 1: me to do this after everything I've done for them,
Speaker 1: Like I'd be so pissed at the ask rather than
Speaker 1: I never saw that. I didn't know that I could
Speaker 1: just go no, Like I actually don't have the bandwidth it,
Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me. I can't do it. I
Speaker 1: wish you good luck, Like it didn't enter my mind.
Speaker 1: I felt like I had to do it. About fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago, I was walking with one of my girlfriends
Speaker 1: in the West Village, Kate Northrup, who's also an author
Speaker 1: and do the stuff, and the whole entire walk over
Speaker 1: to where we were going, she was complaining about this
Speaker 1: person who was so entitled and she had done so
Speaker 1: much for her and that she just got off the
Speaker 1: phone with her and she just asked her to do
Speaker 1: something else, and like who raises these people? And why
Speaker 1: is she like that? And I can't even believe it.
Speaker 1: Just the nerve, It just pisses me off. She's so unappreciated,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Till we get all the way to
Speaker 1: the place and I just said to her, yeah, Kate,
Speaker 1: she's got some nerve putting you in the position to
Speaker 1: have to say no. And she was like, holy shit, Terry,
Speaker 1: why don't I just say no? I'm like, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying dude, Because here's the reality, Janna, and you
Speaker 1: know this. People are going to ask you anything. They're
Speaker 1: going to ask you ridiculously intrusive questions about your life
Speaker 1: about anything. They're going to ask you to do things
Speaker 1: for them that you don't want to do. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: because they're ignorant. Sometimes it's because they're selfish. Who the
Speaker 1: hell cares? That is their side of the street. What
Speaker 1: you do is your side of the street. So when
Speaker 1: I got healthier through therapy and the year, you know
Speaker 1: then it became a therapist and all that stuff, I
Speaker 1: realized I keep looking out. I can't stop blaming other people.
Speaker 1: I'm so into it. I'm like, this one's a jerg
Speaker 1: and this one's selfish, and this one and this. When
Speaker 1: I started realizing that it was my job to keep
Speaker 1: my side of the street clean, and then it wasn't
Speaker 1: my job to people please all these people because it
Speaker 1: was becoming very unpleasing to me to be a people pleaser,
Speaker 1: my life changed. I realized it could be simple. I
Speaker 1: could simply say I love you and I can't do
Speaker 1: it right. I could simply say I came up with
Speaker 1: ways because I used to always lend people money like ps.
Speaker 1: Just don't That's all I'm saying. And I can't real
Speaker 1: they are. Don't lend anybody money. It's just going to
Speaker 1: be a shit show eventually, trust me when I tell
Speaker 1: you it's very Yeah, i'mlily that is going to end well.
Speaker 1: But then I just got healthier and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna have a policy. It's not personal,
Speaker 1: it's a policy. Someone asked me, some of my family
Speaker 1: has been lend money. Hey, you know what, I have
Speaker 1: a no lending policy. It's not personal to you. It's
Speaker 1: just my thing because this is how I protect my relationships.
Speaker 1: Sure done, you know, just say no, Yeah, thanks Nancy Reagan.
Speaker 1: I never right if that only worked with drugs, right? Um,
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because I feel like boundaries right has
Speaker 1: been one of the the hot words like gaslighter, gaslighting, narcissist,
Speaker 1: Your boundaries. I'm curious, like where like it's all boundaries
Speaker 1: have always been there, But why are we just talking
Speaker 1: about it now? I think a lot of things, honestly,
Speaker 1: because I've been talking about this, researching it for twenty years,
Speaker 1: you know, so I felt kind of alone back in
Speaker 1: the earlier two thousands, but you have the me too.
Speaker 1: You know what things really broke in twenty seventeen and
Speaker 1: the whole thing about informed consent. All of this became
Speaker 1: boundary conversations, so it was always an issue. I think
Speaker 1: we should establish, though, for people watching and listening, what
Speaker 1: are boundaries, because I think there's a lot of confusion
Speaker 1: about that. So can I quickly go into that, please,
Speaker 1: please do well the way that I teach it, I
Speaker 1: want you to think about your own boundaries as your
Speaker 1: own personal rules of engagement. It lets other people know
Speaker 1: what's okay with you and what it's not okay with you.
Speaker 1: So your boundaries are comprised of your preferences, your limits,
Speaker 1: and your deal breakers. So that's like your non negotiables.
Speaker 1: So the important thing is you have to not just
Speaker 1: know them, which most people honestly don't. This is part
Speaker 1: of what I teach when I teach boundaries, people don't
Speaker 1: even know their preferences and their deal breakers. As you
Speaker 1: just said, Johnny, your preference is for there to be
Speaker 1: in no problems, right. Your preference is peace. You want
Speaker 1: there to be peace in the valley. You would like
Speaker 1: everyone to get along, and you don't want any crap.
Speaker 1: That's basically your preference. But it really can't be because
Speaker 1: I'm talking about your personal preference, and because we can't
Speaker 1: control others, so you have to know what they are
Speaker 1: and have the ability to readily communicate them transparently. So
Speaker 1: it's like thinking about it as a language unto itself,
Speaker 1: because it is. And when people go I'm bad at boundaries,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do it, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: I always say, listen, you wouldn't feel bad about not
Speaker 1: being fluent in French. It's like nobody taught you French.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't feel like something's wrong with me. I must
Speaker 1: be weak, I must be I'm a pushover. No, this
Speaker 1: is literally a language that you can learn. I teach
Speaker 1: it to people all the time. It's just saying I
Speaker 1: want to Because what is on the other side of
Speaker 1: you being able to assert and hold onto your boundaries
Speaker 1: with ease, with grace, naturally, without a slamming heart, without
Speaker 1: your sweating, without being so afraid of reprisal, is your liberation?
Speaker 1: Is your full expression of yourself? Is you authentically being
Speaker 1: you and developing who you are authentically? When we live
Speaker 1: in these boxes that are created by these disordered boundaries.
Speaker 1: People don't know us. We're saying yes when we want
Speaker 1: us to say no. We're kind of taking one for
Speaker 1: the team. As I said before, right, we're like someone
Speaker 1: gives you something you don't like it, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's okay, you know, or like I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say anything about it. Or they want to do something
Speaker 1: you don't want to do. You're like, oh, I'll go
Speaker 1: along because they want to ye as opposed to seeing
Speaker 1: that your preferences matter, and it doesn't mean you have
Speaker 1: to get your way. It means it's information that if
Speaker 1: we're endlessly going along to get along with others, they
Speaker 1: don't know us, Like that's a fact. They really don't
Speaker 1: intimately know you if you're not sharing what your preferences,
Speaker 1: your limits, and your deal breakers are. And then we're
Speaker 1: so shocked that people can't read our minds and we're
Speaker 1: so offended and we're so hurt and we feel unimportant
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. But there is a cure for that,
Speaker 1: which is effective communication. And if people are like, where
Speaker 1: do I start? Where do I know what this lady's saying?
Speaker 1: I think it makes sense, but I don't even I
Speaker 1: have no idea the state of my boundaries. I always
Speaker 1: have people start by doing a resentment inventory. Oh interesting,
Speaker 1: tell me more about that. Well, we're just going to
Speaker 1: write down what you're feeling resentful about, like who the
Speaker 1: person is, what you're feeling, the situation, why you're resentful,
Speaker 1: and then in that third column we can leave a
Speaker 1: blank for anow because you may not know the answer,
Speaker 1: but you're going to think about what boundary is needed
Speaker 1: in this situation, because when we feel resentful, this is
Speaker 1: telling us. It's like a GPS for where either you
Speaker 1: need to establish the boundary because maybe you haven't said anything,
Speaker 1: so the person is doing something that's bothering you or
Speaker 1: hurting your feelings but they don't know what because you're
Speaker 1: not telling them. Or maybe it's where a boundary is
Speaker 1: being violated. Maybe you have said something but the person
Speaker 1: continues to trample on the boundary. Either way, what we
Speaker 1: know about resentment is that some need is going unmet
Speaker 1: if you're feeling an ongoing resentment for someone, so identifying
Speaker 1: like the top five in your life right now would
Speaker 1: be so helpful because it tells you where to put
Speaker 1: your time and energy. It tells you what relationship needs
Speaker 1: something from you right where you need to have a
Speaker 1: conversation potentially and if you don't feel like you can
Speaker 1: right now. Just identifying what is creating resentment for you
Speaker 1: is so powerful because so much of this janet is
Speaker 1: in the basement, as I call it, in your unconscious mind.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of times it'll show up as confusion
Speaker 1: because it's almost like we don't want to know because
Speaker 1: then we feel like we're going to have to have
Speaker 1: a conversation we don't know how to have. Do that
Speaker 1: makes sense? You know? When I hear you say this,
Speaker 1: it's like it's asking for what you need, right, So
Speaker 1: it's like the word is boundary, but it's also asking
Speaker 1: for what you need. So and any time you ask
Speaker 1: for what you need, there's always better communication that follows. Now.
Speaker 1: The only little caveat to that is sometimes I've asked people, well,
Speaker 1: I'd say, like my ex like for what I need,
Speaker 1: and it was never met. So I think there's the
Speaker 1: resentment came in when that need was or that like, hey,
Speaker 1: I maybe I need a little extra reassurance this month
Speaker 1: or or what or you know that's I know that's
Speaker 1: a different than a technically a boundary, but it's still
Speaker 1: you know, under I think the same umbrella where it's
Speaker 1: like you're asking for what you need. But then if
Speaker 1: that if that feels like it's not happening or they're
Speaker 1: not listening, then that like the resentment brews even more. Yes,
Speaker 1: but let's be specific about asking for what we need.
Speaker 1: We have to be very specific, like with what it is.
Speaker 1: So I've had a lot of therapy clients who will
Speaker 1: be like, you know, I'm telling my partner, I just
Speaker 1: need them to be more sensitive. They just need to
Speaker 1: be more sensitive to me and what I'm going through.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, they don't know what you mean, right,
Speaker 1: They hear your words, they intellectually understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1: But you have to say, hey, it would mean a
Speaker 1: lot to me if when I'm talking to you with
Speaker 1: the end of the day, if you put your phone
Speaker 1: down right because I really need your full attention and
Speaker 1: it really makes me feel unimportant. That's clarifying your need. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: exactly more clarity because again even the broad stroke of
Speaker 1: what we need then they don't understand. But what the
Speaker 1: situation that you share, Janna, is you're using and I
Speaker 1: imagine you did use the information, like when we make
Speaker 1: a boundary request, and I think that getting our needs
Speaker 1: met absolutely is a boundary request. What is happening is
Speaker 1: we're giving the people the opportunity to step up or not.
Speaker 1: So if your ex was incapable or unwilling or whatever
Speaker 1: the reason was, that was verifiable data for you about
Speaker 1: what that soul was willing or capable of doing, and
Speaker 1: then you have decisions to make with real data, right,
Speaker 1: not with making assumptions or projections like actual data ware.
Speaker 1: I asked for what I needed, I was specific, the
Speaker 1: person basically couldn't deliver, didn't deliver, didn't want to deliver
Speaker 1: what am I willing right to tolerate? And how many
Speaker 1: times can this boundary be broken before it's like, hands
Speaker 1: are up, I can't walk this broken boundary life with you? Right. Well,
Speaker 1: this is why we put people into categories, or I
Speaker 1: put people into categories where we have boundary first timers.
Speaker 1: So there are people that maybe you thought for years
Speaker 1: that they were like a bossy bully or a boundary bully.
Speaker 1: Let's say, right, but you haven't said anything to them,
Speaker 1: so we're going to consider them first timers. But then
Speaker 1: you have the people who are the repeat offenders, which
Speaker 1: is what you're talking about, where yes, it might take
Speaker 1: a minute for an established relationship to do a new
Speaker 1: boundary dance. That's true. But if you find yourself in
Speaker 1: groundhog day of frustration having the same conversations with no
Speaker 1: change behavior, now you have your decision to make about
Speaker 1: is this a deal breaker? Is this a preference? Is
Speaker 1: this a limit? Like not all boundaries are created equal, right,
Speaker 1: A preference is I really don't want to go to
Speaker 1: bed late at night. You go to bed late at night,
Speaker 1: but I don't my preferences. You would come to bed
Speaker 1: earlier with me. Maybe your partner will sometimes maybe they won't,
Speaker 1: but that probably wouldn't be a deal breaker. Let's say
Speaker 1: monogamy being faithful. For some people, that's a deal breaker
Speaker 1: if you tell the person, hey, if you step out,
Speaker 1: we're done, because that is a deal breaker for me.
Speaker 1: You let the person know if they step out, then
Speaker 1: you and the relationship. So they're not all created equal.
Speaker 1: But it's important that we know what's important to us,
Speaker 1: what matters to us in the relationship, and we communicate
Speaker 1: that to the best for our ability with repeat offenders. Though,
Speaker 1: one thing that we usually need to do is to
Speaker 1: establish consequences. Right, if you have someone who, let's just
Speaker 1: say they were always late, but they don't let you know. Right,
Speaker 1: and you're the person at home, maybe maybe you're making dinner,
Speaker 1: or you're ordering in or whatever the thing is, planning
Speaker 1: to eat together, you make the request, Hey, I'd like
Speaker 1: to make a simple request that if you're going to
Speaker 1: be more than ten or fifteen minutes late, that you
Speaker 1: giving it a text heads up, so I'll keep the
Speaker 1: food hot, or I won't plan to eat so whatever.
Speaker 1: If they keep not doing it, an appropriate consequence would say, hey,
Speaker 1: we've had this conversation four times. Four times you told
Speaker 1: me you were going to let me know, you didn't.
Speaker 1: If it happens again, I'm eating without you. I'm no
Speaker 1: longer planning to have dinner with you. You can, I'll
Speaker 1: put it in the fridge. You can eat alone when
Speaker 1: you get home. Now. That may sound petty, or that
Speaker 1: may sound like who cares. But for some people, if
Speaker 1: you eat together every night, you're doing something different. That
Speaker 1: says I'm not just going to tolerate the same behavior
Speaker 1: over and over again and complain about it. There has
Speaker 1: to be some kind of consequence, and sometimes the consequences
Speaker 1: ending the relationship eventually, right, I mean, listen, those are
Speaker 1: all really and it's it's interesting because the holding to
Speaker 1: the boundaries and then the consequences is something that I
Speaker 1: was awful at. So I would, you know, be like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, if you do it again, I'm leaving you.
Speaker 1: Well I think I said that five million times, and
Speaker 1: then we came to a place where the person doesn't
Speaker 1: believe then your your non negotiables, and your I guess
Speaker 1: quote unquote threats right to leave the relationship. So they're
Speaker 1: not going to stop doing what they're doing if you
Speaker 1: don't stand by what your bottom line was. And that's
Speaker 1: that was kind of like a hard lesson that I learned. Apps.
Speaker 1: It's so true because the bottom line is we're teaching them,
Speaker 1: but they can keep doing it by not enforcing a consequence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well literally teaching them, you know. But by doing boundaries
Speaker 1: and all these things, you can finally live free and
Speaker 1: you can feel good about it. And so in order
Speaker 1: to do that, check out Boundary Boss the essential guy
Speaker 1: to talk true, be seen, and finally live free. Terry,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for having me. I appreciate you,