WEBVTT - Whine About It: Leaps and Boundaries 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:05.320 Wine Down with Janna Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast. 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.160 All Right, it's your Wine about It Thursday Therapy episode. 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.600 I am really excited to have Terry Cole on. She's 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:18.000 a licensed psychotherapist, global relationship and empowerment expert, and the 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.400 author of Boundary Boss, which we're gonna be talking about today. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.279 It's the essential guy to talk true, be seen, and 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.960 finally live free. She's worked with many clients from stay 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:32.559 at home moms to celebrities and Fortune five hundred CEOs, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:39.200 and so let's get her on to talk about her book. Hey, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.640 Terry people, how are you, Terry. I'm Janna Yan Janna. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:49.960 How are you doing? You know what I'm doing pretty good? Yeah, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.560 that's good. Yeah, I feel I'm feeling good. I had 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:58.600 therapy yesterday, so I'm feeling you know, centered, and but 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.640 you know, they still have things to work on, right 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.120 like we all do life life exactly. But I mean, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.600 I'm excited to talk to you. Your book sounds amazing 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.160 and it's I saw a little thing from it. So 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.480 this book is for women who are exhausted from overgiving, overdoing, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.360 and even over feeling if you're getting it all done 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.640 at the expense of yourself, give yourself the gift of 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.960 boundary boss. And if you could, like, what is a 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:30.000 boundary boss to you? It's someone who knows themselves. You 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.440 know your preferences, your limits, your deal breakers, you have 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.280 the ability to share them readily with the people in 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.600 your life. Really, being a boundary boss means living a 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.720 self determined life because you're not spending all your time 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:50.240 people pleasing and self abandoning. Right. It's interesting though, I've 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.680 so I'm kind of how do I say I've I've 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.320 been a people pleaser. I'm going on the opposite. I'm 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.440 learning to not just people please and I'm learning to 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.000 have better boundaries. But it's interesting. I had I kind 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.600 of ran into a little bit of a situation the 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.440 other day where someone had texted me something and I'm like, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.120 normally and I did even in that moment, I laughed, 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.720 I go hah, even though I didn't think it was funny, 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.000 and I kind of wish this person wouldn't text me that, right, So, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.639 trying to do better in my work, I'm like, I'm 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:24.959 going to set a boundary to hey, don't please don't. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.639 I don't need to have these text message being sent 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.960 to me right, So I said, hey, for the future, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.480 I would appreciate it if you don't send these kind 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.440 of text messages as I just don't like, I'm in 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.160 a different place in my life and I don't really 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.480 care about this message and so I would just appreciate 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:50.359 that moving forward. But their response was wow, like wow, 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.040 just trying to be respectful, and I'm like, and I go, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:55.399 my tone was not a great I'm just simply saying 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:57.160 but I'm like. I then felt like I had to 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.280 defend myself for my boundary and that's where I was like, 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.840 and so I did because I wanted them to know, 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.200 because I know text is so hard right with tone. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.120 So then I said, I think you're mister understanding my 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.880 text tone. I also just need to express to you 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.280 that I don't want to get these messages anymore, and 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.080 that's okay for me to ask that. But then I 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:18.960 felt guilty and then I was like, oh, shoot, should 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.160 I call this person and be like, hey, sorry, But 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.920 I'm like, no, I'm not sorry. I said what I 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.480 needed you took it as offensive. So now I'm kind 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.560 of like, what do I do. Well. Part of it 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.440 is you're not that fragile, so you being uncomfortable for 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.560 a little, It is okay because you're doing something new. 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.920 This will become if you keep going, Jenna, this will 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.720 become your new normal. And we can care that someone 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.360 else didn't like, love our boundary and lovingly hold on 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.520 to our boundary. Right, You weren't making that person wrong. 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.000 He didn't say you're a jerk for sending it to me. 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.320 You basically said I would not like to receive these 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:01.920 going forward, and lang could help you know, I like to. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.840 I have a lot of them sentenced stem sort of 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.600 starters of And even in that situation, let's just say, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.080 if we had a redo, you could type I'd like 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.120 to make a simple request that in the future you 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.640 leave me off of this type of text forward or 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:23.680 whatever the person was doing like this, I'd appreciate. Thank you, right, 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.880 thank you, I appreciate that. So I also assume that 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.320 people are going to do it I want them to 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.479 do when I've set a boundary, So thank you for 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.560 respecting my boundary. So what we're setting them up a 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.119 by calling it a simple request, because here's the truth, 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.400 everything we ask from anyone is a simple request. That 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.960 doesn't mean they're going to do it, but certainly, it's 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.919 not complicated for that person to stop sending you text 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.720 messages right right now, it's simple right now. But then 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.360 now they think I'm being aggressive. Here's the thing though, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:58.120 what they think is their side of the street. Oh 0:04:58.160 --> 0:04:59.840 it's so hard for me because I want to say, like, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.240 that's my tone. Wasn't like that, Like I don't like 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:08.080 that's where my work is still getting there. But also, 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.360 let yourself be uncomfortable. Have compassion for the fact that 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.280 you did something that felt scary. You did a brave 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.160 thing that you know is aligned with better mental health 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.240 for you, which is why you did it, And give 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.919 yourself credit for that, and let yourself feel a little uncomfortable. 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:32.560 Here's the thing. We hate to feel misunderstood, right, we 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.680 hate to feel that someone is misconstruing. But here's what 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:42.599 really matters is what your intention was, which was to 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:47.040 set up a limit with this person that you are 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.000 asking them not to cross by don't text me those 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.360 things in the future. That's your right. You could go 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.240 be totally agro and like completely block them, like you 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.360 know that there's you're not being extreme right in what 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.600 you said or what you did, but your desire to 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:10.760 control their feelings. Right. This really goes this is you know, 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.440 disordered emotional boundaries, but it goes into codependency. Right. There's 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:20.559 a certain amount of codependency that comes when you think about, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.080 like what is codependency? Right? We hear all about it, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.640 but does anyone really understand is that you're just wanting 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.560 the other person to be happy above your own happiness. Listen, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.080 that's a simple way of putting it. But it's more 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.960 than that, right, Right, Because if I were to describe it, 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.560 I would say my definition of codependency is being overly 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.520 invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the decisions, the 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.400 circumstances of the people in our life, to the detriment 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.400 of our own internal peace, or to the detriment to 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.720 our mental wellness, our financial wellbeing, our physical wellbeing. Right. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.440 Because maybe you're giving somebody money or whatever it is, 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.080 and what is at the base the basement of that, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:08.200 The foundation of that is disordered boundaries. Because we are 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:14.320 unclear where we end and that person begins. We feel 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:20.200 overly responsible for their feeling, We feel overly responsible for 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.680 what we think they're thinking. Right, we want to change it. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.720 But again, at the base of this is a covert 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:34.280 or overt bid or desire to control the other person, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.520 and sometimes we just have to go it's okay. If 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:43.120 they misunderstand me, it's okay. You don't want to have 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.320 to justify the crap out of your no or out 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.120 of your request, or out of anything, because it is 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:53.760 your right to have your text message space be a 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.160 sacred place for you. Right. You want to protect yourself 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.320 and whatever that thing was that you didn't like, that's 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.240 your right. And if people are going to get offended, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.280 and they will at times, especially if this is new behavior, 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:11.280 and especially if these are established or older relationships. So 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.080 when we think about starting to have better boundaries in life, 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.920 communicating more effectively the people that it can be the 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.880 most challenging with our family of origin because when you 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:27.880 think about what are boundaries, what are relational stuff, It's 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.440 they're like dances, right, It's like I do this, you 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.240 do that, you do that, I do this. It's like 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.599 a well sort of orchestrated and understood way of behaving. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.960 When we change that dance, the people we've been dancing 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.520 with the longest, obviously they're going to notice that you're 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:53.440 changing your steps, and that's okay. They feel threatened. The 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.600 reason why people get offended. Part of it is ego, 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.560 of course, but a lot of times when we're starting 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.880 to change and you or do something different or establish 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:08.599 new boundaries, people are afraid that we're going to change 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.760 so much that we no longer want them in our life, 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.920 or that they'll lose us in some way. They may 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.520 not be conscious of this, but I can tell you 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.000 being a therapist for twenty five years, this fear is real. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.360 And so it's not just their desire to sort of 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.040 control you or make you admit that you were wrong. 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.120 It's a fear that this is like a new interaction 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.400 in this relationship. We don't normally interact this way, and 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.760 it's scaring me. So I always say, listen, we can 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.360 set boundaries with kindness, with love. We can set boundaries 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.880 with more heat when we need to right if it's 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.280 like Bob from Accounting, who's being inappropriate, Like a little 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.080 heat might be good, but that's on us. And I 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.560 think a lot of the myths around healthy boundaries is 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.040 that if you have them, year a bit. If you 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.800 have them, you're rejecting people left and right, or verbally 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.040 punching people in the face. Or being all aggressive, and 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.840 that really isn't true because healthy boundaries usually have some 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.280 flexibility to them. Right. If we think about the ways 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.960 that boundaries can be disordered, you can have boundaries that 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.800 are too loose, which are called poorous boundaries. You can 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.719 have boundaries that are too stiff, right, and this is 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.920 having rigid boundaries. So if you have someone who's like, hey, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.800 it's my way or the highway, get out, that's not 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:37.080 someone who's healthy. That's someone who has disordered boundaries. They're 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:41.360 rigid boundaries because that's unnecessary unless something is extreme, unless 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.560 someone is being violent, words an abusive, or a toxic 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.600 toxic situation. Generally, we don't need to be like my 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.480 way or the highway. We can assert ourselves. Whoever's on board, grade, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.280 whoever's that's fine too. So I think the myths around 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.520 it is that a lot of times people mistake rigid 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:04.199 boundaries is for being masterful at boundaries, and it just 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.160 perpetuates the myth even more right, it just makes people 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.160 not want to be good at boundaries with all of 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.679 this fear of what will other people think about me? 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.800 That's definitely the piece that I've struggled with is the boundary, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.240 sticking by the boundary piece because I don't want to 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:40.080 hurt anyone's feelings offend them. And just like you said, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.320 I mean definitely called me out on that. It's like 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.240 my uncomfortableness too, and that where it's you know, a 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.320 situation happened even a couple months ago where it's like 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:50.520 normally I would hug an enemy and I'm like, I 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:51.960 don't need to have I don't want to hug that person. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.800 I'm not I'm not going to and that uncomfortable feeling 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.240 I sat with and then it went away, but I 0:11:58.280 --> 0:11:59.920 was like, Okay, it showed me that I can do it. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.920 But also it still was like I'm the kind of 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.679 person like I just want I just want everyone to 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.240 be happy, you know, like happy, happy, happy, everything's fine, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.439 Like even like how i'd handle with my ex husband. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.400 Now it's like I just I just I just want 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.920 everyone to be happy, right, so blessed. I don't want 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.840 the drama. I don't want the I just I don't 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.440 want any of it. So that piece is almost interfering 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.480 with my boundary piece. Well, here's the thing. I totally 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:29.880 understand you. I am you. I was like, I totally 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.960 get it because we're lovers, right, We're like, life is good. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.040 Let's just all get along, Like, what's the problem. It's 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.319 not a big deal, it's fine. Like we're always the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.800 ones who were like, I'm happy to take one for 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:41.600 the team. It's fine, forget it, let's do what she 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.360 wants it. I'm But what happens is if that worked 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.280 as a long term goal, there'd be no problem with that. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.800 But the thing is it doesn't. What ends up happening 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:58.000 is that if we self abandoned too much in the 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.040 service of keeping the peace, quote unquote, you know, as 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.480 Cheryl Richardson would say, you know, you start a war 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:10.800 within yourself that the result is feeling resentful. So when 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.720 we overgive or over accommodate or whatever it is that 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.760 we're doing, we end up feeling like, instead of taking 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.679 responsibility in our own mind for like I offered to 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.959 do this, what happened for me in my twenties is 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.040 that I started feeling I was really resentful of everyone. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.640 I kept thinking like, I can't believe how entitled these 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.520 people are. I cannot believe that this person would ask 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.240 me to do this after everything I've done for them, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.040 Like I'd be so pissed at the ask rather than 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.040 I never saw that. I didn't know that I could 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.640 just go no, Like I actually don't have the bandwidth it, 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.840 that doesn't work for me. I can't do it. I 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.160 wish you good luck, Like it didn't enter my mind. 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.400 I felt like I had to do it. About fifteen 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.080 years ago, I was walking with one of my girlfriends 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.880 in the West Village, Kate Northrup, who's also an author 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.240 and do the stuff, and the whole entire walk over 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.400 to where we were going, she was complaining about this 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.200 person who was so entitled and she had done so 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:11.760 much for her and that she just got off the 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:13.240 phone with her and she just asked her to do 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.439 something else, and like who raises these people? And why 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.720 is she like that? And I can't even believe it. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.640 Just the nerve, It just pisses me off. She's so unappreciated, 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.800 blah blah blah. Till we get all the way to 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.160 the place and I just said to her, yeah, Kate, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.440 she's got some nerve putting you in the position to 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:35.040 have to say no. And she was like, holy shit, Terry, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.240 why don't I just say no? I'm like, that's what 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.800 I'm saying dude, Because here's the reality, Janna, and you 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:47.560 know this. People are going to ask you anything. They're 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.840 going to ask you ridiculously intrusive questions about your life 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.920 about anything. They're going to ask you to do things 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.440 for them that you don't want to do. Sometimes it's 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.760 because they're ignorant. Sometimes it's because they're selfish. Who the 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.880 hell cares? That is their side of the street. What 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.440 you do is your side of the street. So when 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.520 I got healthier through therapy and the year, you know 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.200 then it became a therapist and all that stuff, I 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.920 realized I keep looking out. I can't stop blaming other people. 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:19.920 I'm so into it. I'm like, this one's a jerg 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.640 and this one's selfish, and this one and this. When 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.680 I started realizing that it was my job to keep 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.680 my side of the street clean, and then it wasn't 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.040 my job to people please all these people because it 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.480 was becoming very unpleasing to me to be a people pleaser, 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.560 my life changed. I realized it could be simple. I 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:46.320 could simply say I love you and I can't do 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.360 it right. I could simply say I came up with 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.040 ways because I used to always lend people money like ps. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.040 Just don't That's all I'm saying. And I can't real 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.800 they are. Don't lend anybody money. It's just going to 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.320 be a shit show eventually, trust me when I tell 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.600 you it's very Yeah, i'mlily that is going to end well. 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:04.760 But then I just got healthier and I was like, oh, 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.200 you know what, I'm gonna have a policy. It's not personal, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.040 it's a policy. Someone asked me, some of my family 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:11.800 has been lend money. Hey, you know what, I have 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.120 a no lending policy. It's not personal to you. It's 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.200 just my thing because this is how I protect my relationships. 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:26.000 Sure done, you know, just say no, Yeah, thanks Nancy Reagan. 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.320 I never right if that only worked with drugs, right? Um, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.320 It's it's interesting because I feel like boundaries right has 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:40.160 been one of the the hot words like gaslighter, gaslighting, narcissist, 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:47.320 Your boundaries. I'm curious, like where like it's all boundaries 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.440 have always been there, But why are we just talking 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.920 about it now? I think a lot of things, honestly, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.120 because I've been talking about this, researching it for twenty years, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.280 you know, so I felt kind of alone back in 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:03.240 the earlier two thousands, but you have the me too. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.840 You know what things really broke in twenty seventeen and 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.520 the whole thing about informed consent. All of this became 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.920 boundary conversations, so it was always an issue. I think 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.000 we should establish, though, for people watching and listening, what 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.879 are boundaries, because I think there's a lot of confusion 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.320 about that. So can I quickly go into that, please, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.119 please do well the way that I teach it, I 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.200 want you to think about your own boundaries as your 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.600 own personal rules of engagement. It lets other people know 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.760 what's okay with you and what it's not okay with you. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.159 So your boundaries are comprised of your preferences, your limits, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.480 and your deal breakers. So that's like your non negotiables. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.120 So the important thing is you have to not just 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.200 know them, which most people honestly don't. This is part 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.520 of what I teach when I teach boundaries, people don't 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.360 even know their preferences and their deal breakers. As you 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.280 just said, Johnny, your preference is for there to be 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.800 in no problems, right. Your preference is peace. You want 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:08.520 there to be peace in the valley. You would like 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.119 everyone to get along, and you don't want any crap. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.600 That's basically your preference. But it really can't be because 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.920 I'm talking about your personal preference, and because we can't 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.320 control others, so you have to know what they are 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:27.440 and have the ability to readily communicate them transparently. So 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.320 it's like thinking about it as a language unto itself, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.080 because it is. And when people go I'm bad at boundaries, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:35.879 I don't know how to do it, blah blah blah, 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.879 I always say, listen, you wouldn't feel bad about not 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.399 being fluent in French. It's like nobody taught you French. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.920 You wouldn't feel like something's wrong with me. I must 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.640 be weak, I must be I'm a pushover. No, this 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:52.320 is literally a language that you can learn. I teach 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.119 it to people all the time. It's just saying I 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.840 want to Because what is on the other side of 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:07.480 you being able to assert and hold onto your boundaries 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.919 with ease, with grace, naturally, without a slamming heart, without 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.159 your sweating, without being so afraid of reprisal, is your liberation? 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:22.920 Is your full expression of yourself? Is you authentically being 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:27.360 you and developing who you are authentically? When we live 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.399 in these boxes that are created by these disordered boundaries. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.440 People don't know us. We're saying yes when we want 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.720 us to say no. We're kind of taking one for 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.600 the team. As I said before, right, we're like someone 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.320 gives you something you don't like it, you're like, oh, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.720 that's okay, you know, or like I'm not going to 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.160 say anything about it. Or they want to do something 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:47.600 you don't want to do. You're like, oh, I'll go 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:54.240 along because they want to ye as opposed to seeing 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:58.800 that your preferences matter, and it doesn't mean you have 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.440 to get your way. It means it's information that if 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.000 we're endlessly going along to get along with others, they 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.920 don't know us, Like that's a fact. They really don't 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:16.280 intimately know you if you're not sharing what your preferences, 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.359 your limits, and your deal breakers are. And then we're 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.920 so shocked that people can't read our minds and we're 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.680 so offended and we're so hurt and we feel unimportant 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.080 or whatever it is. But there is a cure for that, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:34.520 which is effective communication. And if people are like, where 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.840 do I start? Where do I know what this lady's saying? 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.720 I think it makes sense, but I don't even I 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.800 have no idea the state of my boundaries. I always 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.280 have people start by doing a resentment inventory. Oh interesting, 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.320 tell me more about that. Well, we're just going to 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.600 write down what you're feeling resentful about, like who the 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.240 person is, what you're feeling, the situation, why you're resentful, 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.399 and then in that third column we can leave a 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.720 blank for anow because you may not know the answer, 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:06.920 but you're going to think about what boundary is needed 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.119 in this situation, because when we feel resentful, this is 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.520 telling us. It's like a GPS for where either you 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.040 need to establish the boundary because maybe you haven't said anything, 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.200 so the person is doing something that's bothering you or 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.040 hurting your feelings but they don't know what because you're 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.040 not telling them. Or maybe it's where a boundary is 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.800 being violated. Maybe you have said something but the person 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.959 continues to trample on the boundary. Either way, what we 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.440 know about resentment is that some need is going unmet 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.960 if you're feeling an ongoing resentment for someone, so identifying 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.200 like the top five in your life right now would 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.760 be so helpful because it tells you where to put 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.520 your time and energy. It tells you what relationship needs 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.480 something from you right where you need to have a 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.200 conversation potentially and if you don't feel like you can 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:07.879 right now. Just identifying what is creating resentment for you 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.439 is so powerful because so much of this janet is 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.920 in the basement, as I call it, in your unconscious mind. 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.399 Like a lot of times it'll show up as confusion 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:23.240 because it's almost like we don't want to know because 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:25.119 then we feel like we're going to have to have 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.040 a conversation we don't know how to have. Do that 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:41.879 makes sense? You know? When I hear you say this, 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.239 it's like it's asking for what you need, right, So 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.879 it's like the word is boundary, but it's also asking 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.520 for what you need. So and any time you ask 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.680 for what you need, there's always better communication that follows. Now. 0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:00.360 The only little caveat to that is sometimes I've asked people, well, 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.520 I'd say, like my ex like for what I need, 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:05.080 and it was never met. So I think there's the 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.560 resentment came in when that need was or that like, hey, 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:11.840 I maybe I need a little extra reassurance this month 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.400 or or what or you know that's I know that's 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.159 a different than a technically a boundary, but it's still 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:20.560 you know, under I think the same umbrella where it's 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:22.160 like you're asking for what you need. But then if 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.720 that if that feels like it's not happening or they're 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.640 not listening, then that like the resentment brews even more. Yes, 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.760 but let's be specific about asking for what we need. 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.679 We have to be very specific, like with what it is. 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:40.760 So I've had a lot of therapy clients who will 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.560 be like, you know, I'm telling my partner, I just 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.240 need them to be more sensitive. They just need to 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:48.320 be more sensitive to me and what I'm going through. 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.680 And I'm like, Okay, they don't know what you mean, right, 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.240 They hear your words, they intellectually understand what you're saying. 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:58.399