1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone is 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: On August twenty first, twenty seventeen, seventy year old Larry 13 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: Shulman was sleeping in his upstairs bedroom at his home 14 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: on outer Bridge Lane in the Providence Commons Area, an 15 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: affluent suburb of Charlotte, North Carolina. Providence Commons is a 16 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: quaint area in South Charlotte. It's located off a highway, 17 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: Glenn McConnell Parkway, and it only has six streets. It's 18 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: a quiet little neighborhood, but that was about to change. 19 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: Larry was on his own in the bedroom. That night, 20 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: his wife, Andrea was out of town on a trip 21 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: to New Orleans, where she was visiting family. And his 22 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: twenty five year old son Josh, also lived at home, 23 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: but Josh was out for the night with friends. Josh 24 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: worked behind the bar at an upscale steakhouse, the Capitol Grill. 25 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 2: Larry said that he went to bed at around nine pm, 26 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: then at some point later in the evening, Josh came 27 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: back home and went to bed. Then at around three am, 28 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: Larry was woken up in a daze. He found someone 29 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: on top of him brutally beating him with a gun. 30 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: So I was sound asleep as I could be, and 31 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, somebody was hitting me in the 32 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 3: forehead pistol, whipping me and yelling where's the safe, where 33 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 3: are the watches, where's the money? Stuff like that. It's 34 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 3: all swelled motion for me, and I'm crying and he 35 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: puts me on the ground. He puts the gun on 36 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: my shoulder, my back shoulder, and choots me. And then 37 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: I had one of these things and I fell and 38 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 3: I can't get up. I pushed the button and yelled 39 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: at the machine, get the police, get the police up, 40 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: and shot up and shot up and shot. 41 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: The machine Larry was referring to was a life Alert system, 42 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: which is a medical alert device targeted at seniors. It's 43 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: usually worn around the neck. This device became very famous 44 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: after advertisements in the early two thousands. Larry's medical device 45 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: was wired so that if he pressed a button, he 46 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: was immediately connected to life alert personnel. He could notify 47 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: the police in the event of an emergency. So that's 48 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: what he did. He pressed his life alert button and 49 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: the gunman took off. But Larry soon realized he wasn't 50 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: the only victim in the house. Down the hall. His 51 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: son Josh had also been shot. 52 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: I did not hear Josh being shot, so then I 53 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: went to the phone and called the police and myself 54 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: and they said, no, we know, we're on our way. 55 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: We're almost at your door. And so I crawled out 56 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 3: of the room and we were on the third floor 57 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: and I looked to the left and there's Josh in 58 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: his T shirt underwear laying on the ground and he 59 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: takes a deep press. I never heard his shot and 60 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: he was shot in the head. 61 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making 62 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helling Gone I've learned that there's 63 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: no such thing as a small town where murder never happens. 64 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: I have received hundreds of messages from people all around 65 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 2: the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's 66 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have 67 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into, 68 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 69 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six 70 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four 71 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 2: six one four five, or you can send us a 72 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone 73 00:05:15,680 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: Murder Line. This case is still classified as an open investigation, 74 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: which means that our FOY request has not been answered yet, 75 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: so we're still trying to get exact details of what 76 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: went down that night. Was this a robbery gone wrong 77 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: or mistaken identity or could the killers have been targeting 78 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: Larry or Josh or both, and if so, why Josh 79 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: was in the hallway outside his bedroom when Larry saw him. 80 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: It's not clear whether he was shot there or whether 81 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: the paramedics moved him out into the hallway to administer 82 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: first aid. Larry can't be sure. Still in a daze. 83 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: Larry looked on in horror as he realized he was 84 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 2: watching his son Josh, take his last breast. 85 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: And then I kind of pulled myself down the stairs 86 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 3: and opened the door, and they came running in with 87 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: the ambulances and stuff and the stretchers, and they're yelling 88 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: the guy upstairs his words, the guy upstairs his work. 89 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: So they take him and take his both to the hospital. 90 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: I grabbed my cell phone. Andrew was in New Orleans, 91 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: and I called her and I told her what happened, 92 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: and then they just took us to the er. One 93 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 3: of the er doctors came in to see me and 94 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 3: he said, your son is a lot worse than you. 95 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: It's not even clear who got shot first, Larry or Josh. 96 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: WSCTV did an interview with Larry in twenty twenty two, 97 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: and in that interview, Larry said when he pressed the 98 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: life alert button, he heard another shot in the hallway, 99 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: which the news channel said must have been the second shot, 100 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: one that killed Josh. One year after the shootings, Larry 101 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: told WBTV quote, I never saw anybody. He had total 102 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: control of me, but I heard a shot down the hallway. 103 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: They shot my son in the head. The bullet came 104 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: out the other side, went through the floorboard three floors 105 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: down and came out in the kitchen, So they had 106 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: to have held him down and shot him in the 107 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: head end quote. So in some of these previous interviews, 108 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: Larry said he did in fact hear the gunshot that 109 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: killed Josh, but when we spoke with him, he told 110 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: us he did not hear the gunshot. Of course, memories, 111 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: even traumatic ones, can fade and shift over time, and 112 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: because the killer immediately started berating him, Larry was more 113 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: focused on staying alive than paying attention to his surroundings. 114 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: He wasn't able to get a good look at the gunman, 115 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: so police had no description of the suspect to go on. 116 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: But Larry does wonder why other than a few things 117 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: that he says the killers grabbed in his room, they 118 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: didn't steal anything else. Since the person beating him was 119 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: demanding to know where the watches were and the safe were. 120 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: It was all very strange, but Larry says that he 121 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: believes that it's likely that his life alert and hearing 122 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: someone say the police were on the way saved his life. 123 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: I was on the ground shot and he left the room. 124 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: Now you know, they didn't take anything. So when the 125 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 3: voice came on, we're sending the police, were sending the police. 126 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: Could that have frightened them in some way? I don't know. 127 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: That was another big question because the Shulmans lived in 128 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: a big house and had lots of nice things inside, 129 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: and yet absolutely nothing of value was stolen. According to Larry, 130 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: this home invasion did not seem to fit the pattern 131 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: of other home invasions that had taken place in that area. 132 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: So what happened? Did the home invaders realize they had 133 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: the wrong spot or did they not count on Josh 134 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: and Larry being home and then things got out of control? 135 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: Could Josh have been the target? Larry said that everyone 136 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: loved Josh. He was gregarious and very popular At his 137 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: high school, Charlotte Latin School. Josh was a pretty serious athlete. 138 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: He played football, basketball, and baseball. After high school, Josh 139 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: went to the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa. He joined 140 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: the ZBT fraternity. He seemed to thrive there. He made 141 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: lots of friends. His obituary described Josh as quote a caring, loving, 142 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: generous soul who never met a stranger. He enjoyed the 143 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: company of many lifelong friends, including furry friends. Josh loved 144 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: all animals, particularly dogs, and they loved him. End quote. 145 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: According to his obituary, Josh liked to play fantasy football, 146 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: to hang out with his friend and watch football games 147 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: with his family. One year after Josh's shooting, Larry talked 148 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: to a local news station about what he remembers from 149 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: earlier in the day of the home invasion, which he 150 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: said he replays constantly for any clue to the horrors 151 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: that were coming, but what Larry described seemed like a 152 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: very routine day. On the day of Josh's murder, Larry 153 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: said that he and Josh talked. He remembers them having 154 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: a conversation about sports, which they did a lot because 155 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 2: Josh loved sports, and Josh had told him he was 156 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: going to come home early that night because he said 157 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: he had an interview the next day. Then Larry said 158 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: that he talked to his mother on the phone and 159 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: went to bed. Larry did say that Josh's job put 160 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: him into contact with a lot of different people, and 161 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: the police had been asking Larry questions about Josh's friend 162 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: group at the time. Larry said the family didn't have 163 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: a ring camera or any kind of surveillance. In twenty seventeen, 164 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: ring cameras were definitely around, but I'd say they were 165 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: still a few years away from having the type of 166 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: mass saturation they have now where it's just kind of 167 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: assumed almost everyone has one. But again, because this is 168 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: still an open investigation, we don't have concrete details about 169 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: this case. We don't know whether police canvass and ask 170 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: neighbors if they had cameras that could have seen something 171 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: that night. Police were also mystified as the motive because 172 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: there was no sign of forced entry into the home. 173 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: Larry said, Josh often left the back door unlocked. 174 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 3: My son often would go on the patio at night 175 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 3: and leave the door unlocked in the back, and I 176 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: think they just came straight into the back door. There 177 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 3: was no sign of breaking in. 178 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: Though Charlotte does have crime and property crime, South Charlotte 179 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: is one of the safest areas in the city. It's 180 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: known for excellent schools and a low crime rate, so 181 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: this home invasion shocked the neighborhood. Larry, who was being 182 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 2: treated for a shot to the scapula in the same 183 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: hospital where his son had been rushed, remembers the doctors 184 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 2: giving him the heartbreaking news that Josh was not going 185 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: to survive. And then just as he was processing that 186 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: information that Josh, his only son, was dead, tragedy struck 187 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: again because the next day, Larry was told that his mother, 188 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: Dorothy Shulman, had died. 189 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: The day after this happened, my mother, who was an 190 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 3: hospice in her apartment, died. We had a funeral that 191 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 3: following Friday for my mother and my son. It was 192 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 3: standing room only. My parents had lived there since nineteen 193 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: fifty four, and they were just well loved and liked 194 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 3: people in the Jewish community. And my son was an 195 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: athlete and a good student and also loved so for him. 196 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 3: I was basketball coaches and different teachers and all his 197 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: friends all that were there. One guy gave the eulogy, 198 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: and my mother and my son were the same. They 199 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: had the ability to make people feel better about themselves, 200 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: so there was a lot of very grateful people there. 201 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: Josh opted to be an organ downer, so even though 202 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: Josh was legally dead and brain dead, he was kept 203 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: on life support for the next three days so that 204 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: the doctors could harvest his organs. Eventually, Josh's organs would 205 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: be given to six different people saving lives. A few 206 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 2: days after the funerals of his mother and son, grief stricken, 207 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: Larry said that he and his wife were called to 208 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: the police station. They were expecting answers or maybe closure. 209 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: Larry was shocked to discover police considered him their number 210 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: on the one suspect. A few days after Larry Shulman's 211 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: only son, Josh, was fatally shot during a home invasion, 212 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: Larry said that he and his wife, Andrea, were called 213 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: in to the Charlotte Mecklenburg police station. Larry said he 214 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: expected to hear that police were pursuing a suspect and 215 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: was stunned to discover the person of interest that police 216 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: were focused on was him. The reason police suspected him, 217 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: Larry said, was because of a family trust that had 218 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: been set up by his mother. Larry was Dorothy's only son, 219 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: Josh was her only grandson. Larry's father had already passed away, 220 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: so police somehow believed that if Josh died, Larry would 221 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: inherit that money instead, and apparently police believed Larry might 222 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: have orchestrated Josh's murder in order to collect Larry said 223 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: the police's belief there could have been a financial motive 224 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: just didn't make any sense, because he said his mother 225 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: was a wealthy woman and she left her estate to 226 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: him to Larry. Larry claimed that Josh could only have 227 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: collected if Larry died. Larry said that law enforcement had 228 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: their financial facts backwards. He believed that unfortunately influenced the 229 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: direction of the case. 230 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: So they're asking me questions, and then it was obvious 231 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 3: the questions were leading toward them accusing me of murdering 232 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 3: my son. My family was a wealthy family, and there 233 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 3: was a trust involved that my mother lived on and 234 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: I was the next beneficiary in the trust. Somehow, in 235 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 3: their convoluted ways of thinking, they thought like me, having 236 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: Josh killed would give me the trust, which is really 237 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: the opposite. So then I came to have it there. 238 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: I said, so either arrest me or let me leave, 239 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 3: and they said, well you can leave. 240 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: Larry worked as a psychotherapist who specialized in trauma and 241 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: grief skills that he needed to get through the brutal 242 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: reality of what occurred. On August twenty first, Larry hired 243 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 2: a private investigator, who he said was a former FBI 244 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: profiler to help him get answers. Police immediately concluded they 245 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: did not believe this was just a random home invasion 246 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 2: gone wrong. They believed the home invaders were targeting someone 247 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: in the home. That could have been partly because of 248 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: the time that the crime happened three am. This is 249 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: a very high risk time. It's not like coming in 250 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: during the day when you believe people could be at work. 251 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: Coming in at that hour, it's very likely someone will 252 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: be in the house. The home invaders had to know 253 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: that if they did have a target. Another theory that 254 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 2: has to be considered is what if the time target 255 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: wasn't Larry but Josh. Police have said very little publicly 256 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: about the investigation, but in twenty eighteen, on the one 257 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: year anniversary, Detective Antonio Eccles told WBTV quote, it was 258 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: a breaking and entering end quote, but then he wouldn't 259 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 2: specify if any items were taken. Police did say at 260 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: that time they did not recover the murder weapon. Detective 261 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: Eckles said, quote, We've been interviewing a lot of people, 262 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 2: a lot of people that were close to the family, 263 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: a lot of people that were close to Josh, a 264 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: lot of people he worked with hung out with end 265 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: quote that does make it seem like police considered the 266 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: possibility that the home invaders could have been acquaintances of Josh. 267 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: But again, there's so much mystery surrounding this case. We 268 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: don't have a description of the gunman or women. We 269 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: don't know how many people were in the house that night. 270 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: Larry said he believes there were at least two home 271 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 2: invaders who came in and attacked and shot him and Josh, 272 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: but a lot of that was still a blur, so 273 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: he doesn't know for sure. Larry said the private investigator 274 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: he hired looked into Josh's friends. Josh was very social, 275 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 2: so he had a big social circle and also just 276 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: had a lot of contact through his job at the 277 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 2: Capitol Grill with the public in general. So one theory 278 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 2: could be maybe someone knew that Josh lived in a 279 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: nice house with a lot of expensive things and decided 280 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: to break in, or maybe one of Josh's friends knew 281 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: he had a habit of leaving the back door unlocked. 282 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: Larry said he does remember one particular friend of Josh's, 283 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: someone who came into the hospital on the night Josh 284 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: was killed. 285 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 3: There was a friend of my son who came drunk 286 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 3: to the hospital that night. He was the last person 287 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 3: to see Josh alive. They were really descriptan sees between 288 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 3: what he said when he said he left Josh and 289 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 3: what he told the police row what that means. That 290 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 3: may mean something. There was some thought that my son 291 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: was involved in something, that that people had it out 292 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: for him and this was a hit of some kind. 293 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 3: Now I don't believe that, and then my detectives didn't 294 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: and I talked to all this friends and stuff like 295 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 3: that he wasn't up to anything. 296 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 2: Larry claimed that because the police were so focused on him, 297 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: he believes they missed many opportunities to find out who 298 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: was really responsible for his son's death, and because they 299 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 2: treated him like a suspect, police were not giving Larry 300 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 2: as much information about the developments of the case as 301 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: they could have. 302 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 3: Then there was a rumor, you know, this was this 303 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: was a rumor in town that my gambling debts, that 304 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: the gamblers had this happen. I'm a psychotherapist, I'm not 305 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 3: a gambler. Just crazy shit. So we started having these 306 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 3: TV interviews and we're having giving this one interview for 307 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 3: mothers of murdered people. And this was on the ABC 308 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 3: station and they interviewed the other mothers, and while I'm 309 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 3: in this room with all the other fathers, their experience 310 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 3: with the police was, Yeah, they're giving us all this information, 311 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: They're following this, they're following that it self phenomenally supported. 312 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 3: I have not yet heard from the police on their 313 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: own in these nine years now. 314 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: A natural question and one that I asked was how 315 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: could police think that Larry shot himself in the back. 316 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 2: This was one of their assumptions, since police apparently believed 317 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: Larry could have been responsible for the murder of his son. 318 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: Larry believes that police considered the possibility that he hired 319 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 2: a hitman. He was talking to us about the Alec 320 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: Murdock case. He said that in the Carolinas stranger things 321 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: have happened. 322 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: You know. This was at the same time, shortly after 323 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 3: that guy Murda on South Carolina he killed the Nami lady. 324 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 3: He had somebody shoot him in the head. I have 325 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 3: no history of deviant behavior or criminal behavior. 326 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: Another possibility that Larry considered was could the killers have 327 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: come into the wrong house, especially since they were asking 328 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 2: about safes and watches Larry said the family didn't have. 329 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: Larry said someone had moved into the house next door 330 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: shortly before the murder of his son, and that he 331 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: had been getting their mail and vice versa. Could this 332 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: whole thing have been a case of the killers mixing 333 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: up the wrong address and getting the wrong house. I 334 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: was looking at photos of Larry's house, and like I 335 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 2: said at the top, the Providence Commons neighborhood. It only 336 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 2: has six streets. A lot of the houses have a 337 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: similar vibe, but they're not all identical. Still, some of 338 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: them do look very similar. It is possible that the 339 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: home invaders had the wrong address. Then again, maybe they 340 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 2: just went around trying doors until they found one that 341 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: was open. But if that's the case, why did they 342 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: specifically ask for watches in a safe? Was that just 343 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: random or did they think the Shulman's had these specific 344 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: things in the house, And if so why? Normally home 345 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: invaders who target specific homes have information that the people 346 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 2: there have something they want. The most common items home 347 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: invaders target first are cash, expensive jewelry, and gold, followed 348 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: by electronic devices like cell phones that can be wipe clean, 349 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: and prescription drugs. Back in the day, home invaders tended 350 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 2: to take things like TVs and computers, but the resale 351 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: market for those items has plunged, Plus they are really 352 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: hard to carry, so those are not the items of 353 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 2: choice anymore. The set of circumstances of this home invasion 354 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 2: actually most closely matches very targeted robberies. When the home 355 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: invaders go into a house where they know the person 356 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: inside has a lot of cash or high value items, 357 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 2: they want those items, and they are willing to use 358 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 2: extreme violence to get what they want fast. The home 359 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: invaders asked Larry where's the safe? They went in at 360 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: a time when they knew he would be in bed vulnerable. 361 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 2: They clearly believed they needed him in order to get 362 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: what they wanted. It's also interesting that the angle of 363 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: the bullets shows that Larry and Josh were shot while 364 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 2: lying down, So the home invaders made a deliberate choice 365 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 2: to go into two bedrooms to confront these two men, 366 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: rather than just grabbing stuff lying around and leave. That 367 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 2: could mean they believed there was something hid in Larry's 368 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: bedroom like a wall safe. People often hide cash or 369 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: valuables in their room. Most home base take place when 370 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 2: the home is empty, which is what the people stealing 371 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 2: things normally prefer because it's much less risky. These killers 372 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: chose to go in at three am. They chose to 373 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 2: stay once they knew there were people upstairs, and then 374 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: they chose to confront them both and to use lethal force. Finally, 375 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 2: even though according to Larry, he was cooperating, the home 376 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: invaders fatally shot Josh and shot him and they got 377 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: nothing of value in the end. Larry told the news 378 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: station WBTV that one theory he considered was that a 379 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: new neighbor, someone who moved in a few weeks before 380 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: Josh was shot, might have been the actual target. He said, quote, 381 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: by some of the questions the guys were asking me, 382 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 2: the assailants, I wondered whether they just had the wrong house, 383 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: and that the moving company movers had seen something in 384 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: that guy's house because I didn't have the things they 385 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: were asking about. But the police have checked that out. 386 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: The house is very identical end quote. However, Larry said 387 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: that the private investigator he hired looked into that possibility 388 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 2: but found nothing that would indicate the house next door 389 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 2: had those kind of valuables either. 390 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 3: Just shortly before that, somebody moved into the home next door, 391 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 3: and I thought maybe they were looking for that home. 392 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 3: My detective followed up on that, and they didn't have 393 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 3: a safe. I didn't have a safe. But we did 394 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: live somewhat of an affluent lifestyle, and you know, Josh 395 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 3: worked at the bar of Apital grill restaurant. He was 396 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: part of the late night world. He had nice things, 397 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 3: you know. 398 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: So according to what Larry told us, it seemed as 399 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: though the PI dropped that lead, but police seemed completely 400 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: focused on Larry as a suspect, he says, because he 401 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 2: inherited that money. So with the help of the private investigator, 402 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 2: he started doing some of his own investigation. In twenty eighteen, 403 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 2: a year after the shooting, Larry's family publicly stated there 404 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 2: was a reward in effect. In addition to the five 405 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: thousand dollars that was pledged by crime stoppers, the Shulman 406 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: family put in ten thousand dollars of their own, for 407 00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 2: a total of fifteen thousand dollars. Larry told us that 408 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: Josh was shot with nine millimeter bullets, which can be 409 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: used in a lot of different kinds of weapons, from 410 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: handguns to submachine guns, so that doesn't seem to narrow 411 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: it down a ton. Unfortunately, both bullets traveled in a 412 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 2: downward path from the third floor, where Larry and Josh 413 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: were sleeping, to the first floor. Josh was only shot 414 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: once in the head, which probably means he was either 415 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: lying in bed when he was shot or that he 416 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: was held down, But we don't know what direction the 417 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: blood spatter was in, if there was blood left behind, 418 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: or even if Josh was shot in bed or in 419 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: the hallway by the way. There is also the possibility 420 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: that this was completely random. People do sometimes die in 421 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 2: botched home invasions, but this one seemed more intentional in 422 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, the FBI issued 423 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: warnings about burglary tourists who targeted wealthy suburban neighborhoods. They 424 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: were frequently linked to South American theft groups. Data from 425 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 2: the FBI reads quote, these sophisticated, often out of state 426 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: or transnational crews specifically target high end homes, scouting them 427 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 2: for valuable such as cash, jewelry, luxury handbags, and firearms 428 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 2: end quote. But then the FBI goes on to say 429 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: these gangs normally surveil their targets and tend to pick 430 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 2: times when they're not home. They also use things like 431 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: signal jammers to jam up the Wi Fi and alarm systems, 432 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 2: which didn't seem to happen here because, again, Larry said, 433 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: they did not have that type of security back then. 434 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: The South American gangs have been most active in California, 435 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: but cases have also been reported in Michigan, Indiana, Texas, 436 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: and North Carolina. There have also been other home invasions 437 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: that have made headlines in Carolina in twenty twenty six, 438 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: including one recent case where the perpetrators tied up their 439 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: victims and tortured them, Which brings me to another fact 440 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: about Larry's case, and we talked about this briefly with 441 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: Matt Stewart's case. A couple of weeks ago, someone came 442 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: into Larry Shulman's house. They demanded certain items, but the 443 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: killer didn't give Larry a chance to really respond. They 444 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: just started beating him. They didn't do what some of 445 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: these other home invaders have done and tie him up 446 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: or try to get information out of him. They just attacked. 447 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, Larry told WCNC news police were being 448 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: more communicative with his family. Larry said he felt that 449 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: the reason why the case hadn't been solved was because 450 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: police were so focused on him as their suspect, he 451 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: said he was happy that police were taking another look 452 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 2: at the case. In twenty twenty three, six years after 453 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 2: josh murder, Andrea and Larry met Gloria Lindsay, the woman 454 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: who'd gotten Josh's heart, on what would have been Josh's 455 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: thirty first birthday. Gloria said, quote, I really wanted to 456 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: meet them and just to let them hear his heartbeat, 457 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: just to let them know that a part of him 458 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: is still alive. End quote. Understandably, Larry did not look 459 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: at the crime scene. His wife, Andrea came back from 460 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: New Orleans to Charlotte to be by his side at 461 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 2: the hospital, and Larry said that after that they never 462 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: spent another night in their family home again. Eventually, the 463 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 2: family relocated to Jacksonville, Florida. And now when Larry thinks 464 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: about Josh, he prefers to remember the happy times rather 465 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: than obsessing over how his life ended. 466 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: He was a great kid. He was a great kid. 467 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: I mean, people loved him. You know, there's a story 468 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 3: in his true story. When Josh was in the ninth grade, 469 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: they were a three guy that came to the school 470 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: and you know it was a clique et, preppy kind 471 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: of school, and these guys came and they were kind 472 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: of sitting by themselves separately, and he went over to 473 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: each each of these kids and said, come on, sit 474 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: at my table, Sit at my table, be part of things. 475 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 3: And he was just a welcoming, welcoming kid. 476 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 2: But Larry said he still hopes that someday someone will 477 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: come forward with a missing piece of information, something that 478 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 2: will help him get answers about what really happened to 479 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 2: Josh and why. He has said he is not motivated 480 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 2: by revenge or hatred. He just wants justice for his son. 481 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: I want the same thing, and I am terrified on 482 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: behalf of the residents of that community that this could 483 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: happen again and that the killer or killers are still 484 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: out there. There is currently still an active fifteen thousand 485 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: dollars reward in effect if anyone has any information that 486 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: could lead to the apprehension of Josh's killer or killers. 487 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: The number for crime Stoppers if you have any information 488 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: is seven O four three three four one six zero zero. 489 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen 490 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is the production of School of Humans 491 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine 492 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Etily's Perez Special thanks to Amy 493 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. 494 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: Noah camer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song 495 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, 496 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: and L. C. Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad Freed 497 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 2: by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on 498 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in seeing documents and 499 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: materials from the case, you can follow the show on 500 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 2: Instagram at Hell and gonepod. 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