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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to one another episode of I Saw

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Speaker 1: What You Did. My name is Millie.

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Speaker 2: To Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson. I was standing you were there.

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Speaker 1: Too.

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Speaker 2: Worlds collided?

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Speaker 1: Is that the story of how we met for the

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Speaker 1: for the our friendship, but then our subsequent podcast is

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Speaker 1: and they tear us apart by in excess.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, children, that's what it was like to be on

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Speaker 2: live journal and Tumblr in the early days. It was

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Speaker 2: like a fucking xcess love song.

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Speaker 1: I was standing behind an acer laptop.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a mech book and they will never ever

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Speaker 2: tear us apart have ever. I love love that fucking

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Speaker 2: song me too.

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Speaker 1: That was a if I remember correctly, that was like

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Speaker 1: a middle school slow dance.

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Speaker 2: Jam or nobody will dance with you in middle school

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Speaker 2: slow dance cry.

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Speaker 1: Look you're I just don't don't assume that that people

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Speaker 1: were dancing with me. They were not.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I was a foot taller than everyone in

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Speaker 2: my grade until high school. Until eleventh grade.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had to square dance with the coach

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Speaker 1: from my from my indoor socker class because nobody wanted

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Speaker 1: to fucking square dance. And we're not even talking about

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Speaker 1: an actual school dance, but a fired assignment.

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Speaker 2: So one that is a title of a book of

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Speaker 2: poetry that you have to write. And two I actually

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Speaker 2: wonder if that's even legal anymore. They're like, don't touch

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Speaker 2: the children ever, even if they're sad and alone.

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Speaker 1: There's many moments like that from my childhood where I

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Speaker 1: haven't even touched it in terms of processing it in

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Speaker 1: a therapeutic center where I'm like, huh, that's really weird.

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Speaker 1: I was in middle school and all the fucking kids

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Speaker 1: were like, Nope, you got to dance with a forty

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Speaker 1: five year old lesbian who was wearing a swishy track suit.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, you know you have.

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Speaker 2: To dance with the proto Sue from Glee.

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Speaker 1: She was like the coach from Strangers with Candy. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember the yes, very very on the nose on that,

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Speaker 1: But listen, I had a better time with her than

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Speaker 1: any of those fuckers. They're probably all on drugs and

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Speaker 1: in the gutter.

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Speaker 2: With your coach. If you dance with your coach, you

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Speaker 2: are now a successful podcaster and a creative wonder kid.

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Speaker 2: If you never were forced to dance with a teacher,

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Speaker 2: you're on fucking Wall Street, ruining lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to know you. Let's just put

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Speaker 1: it that way. Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Well, I absolutely love that as a moment of connection

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Speaker 2: with people, like who were you forced to dance with

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Speaker 2: when nobody would dance with you in middle school? That

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Speaker 2: is a fucking great icebreaker. And if someone's like, what

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Speaker 2: do you mean nobody would dance with me? Bye, we

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Speaker 2: can't be friends. You were cool, You were cool. You

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Speaker 2: probably had sex in high school. Bye.

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Speaker 1: That's another question that we need to put on our

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Speaker 1: dating app that were that. Uh, we're creating as a

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Speaker 1: So what's happening?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Not much? Does my skin look any different?

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Speaker 1: I mean no, you always look beautiful, So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Is there some is another technique going on?

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Speaker 2: I moisturized today. I had time to take a shower

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Speaker 2: before the show. Do you like how I presented that

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Speaker 2: as if I'd had invasive surgery? Well I bathed.

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Speaker 1: Well, are you still electrocuting your face?

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Speaker 2: Not as much? Yeah, I always forget. I always forget.

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Speaker 2: If it's not sitting out, I will forget to electrocute

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Speaker 2: my face. So yeah, this is just natural, stress free,

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Speaker 2: easy living.

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Speaker 1: Looking good girl.

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Speaker 2: But I'm moisturized in the winter sometimes I remember to moisturize,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like my face feels different, so I

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Speaker 2: thought maybe it looked different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, I'm just saying it looks glowing.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like that's not out of bounds from

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Speaker 1: how you normally look. I know that you constantly come

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Speaker 1: to the podcast like, look, I'm a dirt back today.

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Speaker 1: It didn't fucking shower, you know, got tea on the

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Speaker 1: card again. But you know what, I think you look

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Speaker 1: great all the time.

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Speaker 2: So mag you put that in the fucking dating app

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Speaker 2: we're developing too. This bitch never bathes, looks amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, could have fooled me, could

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Speaker 1: have fooled me?

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Speaker 2: How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Huh? You know, I'm all right. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I if I've talked about this yet, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I made this kind of decision at some point a

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Speaker 1: few months ago that I was gonna go back to

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Speaker 1: school for a little while.

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Speaker 2: And I love it. I love it investing in Millie,

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Speaker 2: investing it beck in yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so we've talked about this because we're both

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Speaker 1: like grad school dropouts, right, So like, actually you got

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Speaker 1: a lot further. You actually got your masters but then

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Speaker 1: you dropped out of your PhD.

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Speaker 2: Right, I'm a doctor old out.

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Speaker 1: Oh see, that's more impresson. I'm simply a master's dropout.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I started a master's program like twenty fourteen, uh,

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Speaker 1: while I was still working full time, and then I

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Speaker 1: got the opportunity to move to LA to work on

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Speaker 1: film Struck, which I don't know if anybody remembers film Struck.

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Speaker 1: It was a brief streaming service that TCM and the

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Speaker 1: Criterion Collection had. This was pre Criterion Channel, by the way.

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Speaker 1: And so I had this opportunity to move to LA

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm gonna have to leave my

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Speaker 1: grad program. And so I just decided, okay, fine do it.

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Speaker 1: When am I going to have the chance to do

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Speaker 1: this again. I'm getting old, baby, can't be moving around

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Speaker 1: like that, you know. But then, you know, I just

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Speaker 1: but I was very close to finishing, which is weird,

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Speaker 1: like I didn't have very many classes to go, and

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Speaker 1: then I just you know, it was always like that

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Speaker 1: was it was always like the Girl who Got Away,

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Speaker 1: Like what would it be like if I had actually

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Speaker 1: finished that master's But hey, it's like it's a new year.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I hate doing anything, so let's let's

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Speaker 1: finish it. And so I'm going back like part time

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Speaker 1: right now. It's not going to take me very long.

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Speaker 1: That's the best part of it is it's just going

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Speaker 1: to take up, you know, I don't know, a couple months.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. Yeah, do you feel like it's alleviating some of

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Speaker 2: the pressure of like job searching and trying to figure

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Speaker 2: stuff out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I think honestly when we went to

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Speaker 1: Maine that like when we were at the University of

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Speaker 1: Maine in orno, right, it was kind of like that

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Speaker 1: I think was the click point for me where I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, I actually do want to finish this.

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like that like academia is you know,

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Speaker 1: pleasurable for me in a lot of ways because it,

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Speaker 1: you know, it activates my film brain, you know, which

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Speaker 1: is That's the thing. It's that when you get laid

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Speaker 1: off and you're not like working in your field or

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Speaker 1: your craft or whatever it is, you feel kind of

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Speaker 1: like rudderless. They're like, oh my God, like what do

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Speaker 1: I do? And so that's why the podcast was really

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Speaker 1: helpful for me, because it helped me feel like I

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Speaker 1: was getting up and I was kind of doing what

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Speaker 1: I love to do, right, Yeah, And same thing with

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Speaker 1: the substack was that was the plan as well, is

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Speaker 1: to kind of be like, Okay, if I don't get

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Speaker 1: to do a nine to five job right love film,

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Speaker 1: you know, professionally, then let me just try to keep

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Speaker 1: going in some capacity, you know. But yeah, being in

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Speaker 1: school again is great, and now it feels like, okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: I should have finished it. I'm so close that it's

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Speaker 1: like why not type of thing.

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Speaker 2: But I mean you did the exact right thing, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know what, there's an opportunity that will go away

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Speaker 2: if I don't take advantage of it, and there's one

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Speaker 2: that will always be there for me. So I think

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Speaker 2: that you did the exact right thing for yourself in

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Speaker 2: that moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I think you know, we both

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Speaker 1: sort of made the calculation and last year that the

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Speaker 1: film and television businesses and shambles. So we were like, huh, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: if this ain't happening, who wants me? Who wants to

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Speaker 1: square dance with me? Right?

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Speaker 2: And where my coach is it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as it turns out, higher education wants to wants

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Speaker 1: to dance with me, So that's that's absolutely yeah.

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Speaker 2: And look, I have said this before and I will

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Speaker 2: say it again. This is not a consolation prize. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is you investing in yourself. Yeah, and engaging in

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Speaker 2: a space that fully appreciates and respects you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. No, I appreciate hearing that. I actually don't

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Speaker 1: think it's a consolation I don't feel that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think at first I was like, what am I

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Speaker 1: doing the thing where like I'm escaping into school, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, if that happens for people and it

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Speaker 1: happened too often, do it, what the fuck? I mean,

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Speaker 1: It's like it's not it like versus sitting around and

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Speaker 1: doing nothing. I mean, I don't know. I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a very like proactive, like good nourishing thing to

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Speaker 1: go back to school, right, But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm also still teaching, and I was teaching

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Speaker 1: at the end of the of last year and then

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Speaker 1: I'm teaching again this year. So now I'm just kind

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Speaker 1: of like in it, like you know, kind of more

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Speaker 1: substantially and in a lot of different ways. And it's

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Speaker 1: been really fun. But also at the same time, I

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Speaker 1: have time to you know, still pursue like other stuff

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Speaker 1: like if there are jobs or if there are projects.

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Speaker 1: I kind of created this, like I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to call it bulletproof, because nothing is bulletproof,

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Speaker 1: but you know what I mean a scenario where it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm kind of doing the best that I can

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Speaker 1: with the cards that I was given and also staying

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Speaker 1: nimble and giving myself the runway or whatever for other opportunities. Right.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I fucking love it. And I think

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Speaker 2: it's it's something that is smart to do when the

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Speaker 2: world is uncertain, like to be proactive enough to say, well,

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Speaker 2: at least I'm going to come out of this with

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Speaker 2: a piece of paper that says I'm this thing. So

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Speaker 2: if that's where the job market is going, great, If

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Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with jobs, and it's just

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Speaker 2: about my own personal development and my brain even better,

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Speaker 2: And I think that, you know, education is also a shambles,

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Speaker 2: but it's a more accessible version of a shambles that

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Speaker 2: you can still exist within and like live through than

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Speaker 2: TV and film. And I think I've thought about going back.

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Speaker 2: I thought about going and I think it feels like

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Speaker 2: a real luxury to me now, But I thought about

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Speaker 2: I think when I when I was in my doctoral program.

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Speaker 2: It was the wrong I was studying the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: I was studying something that wasn't going to sustain me

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Speaker 2: or hold my interest. And it was communication and media

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Speaker 2: studies in relation to gender studies. And I'm glad I

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Speaker 2: have my master's degree in gender studies and I love

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Speaker 2: that experience. But I think that I should have pivoted

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Speaker 2: to something a little bit more specific if I was

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Speaker 2: going to be continuing to study something for another six

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Speaker 2: to eight years.

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Speaker 1: I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's thought about it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's because that's the thing about going for the higher degrees,

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Speaker 1: especially if a PhD. You really gotta you're in it.

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Speaker 1: You're in it with the subject that you're you know,

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Speaker 1: so you got to kind of love it almost, you know,

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Speaker 1: because that's all you're going to be thinking about and

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Speaker 1: reading about and talking about for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And yeah, I thought about it. It would be

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Speaker 2: a luxury now, like it wouldn't be with the designs

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Speaker 2: of work or a career or even being hired as

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Speaker 2: a professor. Yeah, so if I went back, I would

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Speaker 2: really maybe I go back for another master's instead of

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Speaker 2: going for a doctorate. But I'm way more interested in

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Speaker 2: like African American studies and you know, different specific cultural

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Speaker 2: things that are directly tied to my own life. Weirdly,

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Speaker 2: I would never go back to school for writing, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I definitely would go back for to study things

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Speaker 2: that I'm more that I want to know more about,

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Speaker 2: like historically.

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Speaker 1: And you know, well, and that's interesting that you say

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Speaker 1: that about going back to GET because there was a

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Speaker 1: moment because you know, when I was, when I was

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Speaker 1: in grad school, when I applied for grad school the

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Speaker 1: first time, you know, my undergrad was really focused on yeah,

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Speaker 1: media studies, communication studies. At the program that I was in,

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Speaker 1: the master's program that I'm int is called Moving Image Studies,

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Speaker 1: so it was but it was you know, obviously not

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Speaker 1: production based. It was more theory and history. It was

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Speaker 1: you know, the the heavy film theory stuff. And there's

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Speaker 1: a moment where and I still they never say never,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, maybe I should go out for

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Speaker 1: an MFA, you know, as opposed to an MA, right,

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Speaker 1: like do production like you know, and and production meaning

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Speaker 1: you could do a lot of things. You could do

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Speaker 1: you know, cinematography or directing, but you can also do

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Speaker 1: screenwriting and you know kind of like documentary experimental films

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Speaker 1: like whatever. It's kind of a broad a broad umbrella.

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Speaker 1: But I'm like, yeah, I don't know, Maybe I could

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Speaker 1: tweak it a bit. Maybe I finished this real quick

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Speaker 1: and then circle back around and do an MFA. Yes,

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Speaker 1: then I'll be ninety years old and I'll have all

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Speaker 1: these degrees.

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Speaker 2: But if you go back for an MFA, what if

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Speaker 2: you get into film editing and you're film a fucking

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Speaker 2: scoon maker?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god?

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Speaker 2: Have you and you could do that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, I gotta be honest with you, Like, Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I need to ask this question of

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Speaker 1: you two, because I'm always very curious, is there a

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Speaker 1: job within the production world. I mean, knowing that you

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Speaker 1: were obviously a showrunner and you've been on the writing

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Speaker 1: side of it, is there like a crew or production

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Speaker 1: job that you think that you would be really good

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Speaker 1: at or that you would want to do.

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Speaker 2: I would want to try my hand at line producing.

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Speaker 2: And a line producer is essentially the person that controls

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Speaker 2: all of the money for the whole production.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy.

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Speaker 2: So there are accountants, there are people that do the

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Speaker 2: math part of it, there are people, but a line

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Speaker 2: producer goes with you when you're looking at sets. They

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Speaker 2: go with you when you're you know they're with you

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Speaker 2: when you're hiring anybody. Every single person that's hired goes

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Speaker 2: through that person goes through the line producer. They know

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Speaker 2: that production inside and out because they have to put

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Speaker 2: a value on every single light bulb, on everything that

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Speaker 2: happens in it. I feel like that speaks to the

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Speaker 2: puzzle part of my brain. The math would be a

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Speaker 2: fucking disaster, Like the accountants would be necessary, But I'm

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Speaker 2: good at like saying, oh, well, this is the amount

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Speaker 2: that we have to work with, So I can do

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Speaker 2: that kind of math, but I can't do the like

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Speaker 2: and taxes and this and that. So I would love

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Speaker 2: to try my hand at it, just because I feel

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Speaker 2: like or I won't. I never ever will. But I

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Speaker 2: feel like if I were going to, it would be

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Speaker 2: line production because I think that you get to really

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Speaker 2: know everybody. Yeah, that's involved in a way that sometimes

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Speaker 2: some showrunners don't like it when their departments talk to

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Speaker 2: each other and blah blah blah. I'm way more collaborative

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Speaker 2: in that way. I'm like, no, I want everyone to

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Speaker 2: know what everyone's doing, because it just makes the production better,

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Speaker 2: but a line producer you have to You are there

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Speaker 2: to hire every person. You are there to make decisions.

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Speaker 2: You are sometimes the person who has to drop the

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Speaker 2: hammer and be like, guess what, we cannot afford to

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Speaker 2: recreate the New York City subway in the middle of

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Speaker 2: Canada because that's where we're filming and we can't do it.

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Speaker 2: There's no money for it, so rewrite that shit. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a to me, a very very interesting job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh that's yeah. I could definitely see you in

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Speaker 1: some kind of producer role for sure. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: thought about this, and I honestly think for me, I

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Speaker 1: would I think i'd want to be a production designer.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'd be the.

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Speaker 1: One that wants to build the subway, yes.

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Speaker 2: But I don't one who's like, we will not be

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Speaker 2: doing that, but make your case, give me your fucking schematics,

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Speaker 2: make your case.

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Speaker 1: Well, And like part of it is that, like I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just I love uh design and decor, and I

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Speaker 1: love the histories of things, like the histories of products

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I love like furniture, furniture and

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Speaker 1: kind of historical architecture, you know, stuff like that. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm like Okay, that's my brain, Like I love that

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Speaker 1: thinking about that kind of stuff. But it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: I read this article. I think it was in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times a while back with Jack Fisk, the

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Speaker 1: production designer. You know, I think, oh, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if we've we talked about this on the podcast already,

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Speaker 1: but there's this like fantastic not an expose, what do

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Speaker 1: you call it? An article about a person and he

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Speaker 1: was a fucking creep. As it turns out, he was

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Speaker 1: an alien, but like it kind of it was like

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Speaker 1: this whole big piece about him and his his work

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Speaker 1: and his processes and because he worked on Killers of

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Speaker 1: the Flower Moon so and it really like was I mean,

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Speaker 1: it sounded like the coolest job, like and he was

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Speaker 1: sitting around like thinking about you know, historic like antique

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Speaker 1: door knobs and historical paint swatches, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, that is so amazing, Like I want

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Speaker 1: to do that. I love that, Like what can I ask?

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Speaker 2: You can totally do that. You should totally do that.

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Speaker 2: Finish up this degree, circle back and start your fucking

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Speaker 2: degree and work towards production design because guess what, you

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Speaker 2: already know a bunch of directors and people who work

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Speaker 2: in the industry. So you could be an assistant real quick, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and start getting that knowledge, and then by the time

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Speaker 2: you graduate, you're like Boom Production Design Millie de Chericho,

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Speaker 2: Three eleven, Alien Symbol Production Design, Inc.

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Speaker 1: Listen, if I could be the production designer on the

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Speaker 1: three eleven biopic that you could just shoot me in

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Speaker 1: the head. That would be like my life's mission.

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Speaker 2: Start playing those seeds, now, start planting the seeds. So

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Speaker 2: this is all possible. The whole world is possible for you, billy.

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Speaker 2: You just have to want it.

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Speaker 1: So we need somebody to write a biopic about the

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Speaker 1: band three eleven. That's the first step, and then hire

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Speaker 1: me as as the production designer for the biopic, including

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Speaker 1: the cruise. I would love to do a cruise scene

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Speaker 1: in the biopic.

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Speaker 2: See, this is the thing, Like you should you should

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Speaker 2: be doing this. I fully, fully believe that you should be.

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Speaker 2: You have such a range of knowledge and experience that

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Speaker 2: I think you would bring to any fucking production. And

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Speaker 2: then we get to work together because I'll be like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I know a perfect production designer for this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and like this is like what I think

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Speaker 1: is also really interesting about production, which I have to admit. Like,

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Speaker 1: so a while back, like a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: I got brought in to do this moderation with James

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Speaker 1: and Roger Deacons. You know Roger Deakins, the very famous

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Speaker 1: cinematographer did all the Coen Brothers movies. Did you know

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Speaker 1: the Shawshank Redemption. I mean, he's he's the goat, right,

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Speaker 1: and he works very closely with his wife, so they're

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Speaker 1: kind of they call himselves Team Deacons, which is really cute.

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Speaker 1: But you know, part of like what they kept talking

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Speaker 1: about is just the collaborative nature of production, right, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're working as like a line producer or a

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Speaker 1: you know, a cinematographer or a production designer, where it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like you have to work very closely obviously

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Speaker 1: with the director who's kind of like the captain of

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Speaker 1: the ship type of thing. And they kept talking about

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Speaker 1: how the pre production part of it is the best

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Speaker 1: moment because it's like all dreams, right, It's just like

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Speaker 1: you can just dream dream everything you've ever wanted, and

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Speaker 1: then the production becomes like the dashing of those dreams,

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Speaker 1: like that you got to give up a lot of

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Speaker 1: what you wanted, and it's kind of more of a compromise. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: But that's the thing I think too, that's so different

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Speaker 1: from maybe the things that I've experienced. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: collaborated before obviously, like I was part of a programming department.

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Speaker 1: We do a podcast together, but in that way where

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Speaker 1: you're kind of like you're really like intensely creating art

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Speaker 1: with other people, you know.

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Speaker 2: And it's still very personal because you have to create

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Speaker 2: the art and then present it to people. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: you can do the collaborative part with someone during that process,

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Speaker 2: but usually it's like, no, it's all based on That's

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Speaker 2: why people hire you, because they want your point of view.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean honestly, like I think I'm

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Speaker 1: also like you just said this, I mean like I'm

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Speaker 1: very collaborative when it comes to working anyway. Like you know,

401
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Speaker 1: I co wrote a book with somebody, I co host

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Speaker 1: a podcast with people. I'm not a person that wants

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Speaker 1: to be in front, like as the lead singer of

404
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Speaker 1: a band. Yeah, Like I like being in the band.

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Speaker 1: I like being the bass player or the drummer, you

406
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Speaker 1: know what I mean. I'm like, I like working.

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Speaker 2: It is the best position to be in think about it.

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Speaker 2: Think about it. You don't know what the fuck any

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Speaker 2: of Taylor Swift's bandmates look like. And they are making

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Speaker 2: so much goddamn money. They're able to go live their

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Speaker 2: fucking lives and get their jet skis like what's his

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00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: face from east Bound and down. They're able to do

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Speaker 2: their goddamn thing. No one's focusing on them, and they

414
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Speaker 2: are rich beyond belief and successful and creative. It is

415
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Speaker 2: the best position to be in the bass player in

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Speaker 2: the well known band. Yeah is the best?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean because it's just like you show up,

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Speaker 1: you do your job, and then at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day you just go home because it's like after

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Speaker 1: part of it, but you're not you know, like the

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Speaker 1: figurehead or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, I love it. Behind the scenes, I think

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Speaker 2: you should truly run towards this. That's just gonna be

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Speaker 2: my advice.

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Speaker 1: Well, I listen, the probably the best thing about losing

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Speaker 1: your job of twenty years is that now it's all

427
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: fucking out there, like you're just like, wow, like I'm

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Speaker 1: not beholden to this thing that I've been doing for

429
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Speaker 1: so long, So what is out there? Like? What else

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Speaker 1: could I do? What I want to do and trust me,

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Speaker 1: it has been it's been a evolution for me to

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Speaker 1: think like this. Yeah, you know, like it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking like this a year ago about what

434
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: my life was going to be or what I could be.

435
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: I was very like scared obviously. Yeah, but I don't know,

436
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: I think obviously now I'm in a different headspace, and

437
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: you know, you just at some point get ready. You

438
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: just like are mentally like let's move on, Like what

439
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: is next? I'm so tired of looking behind me and

440
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: I just want to like figure something out and again

441
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: like kind of staying nimble, which I think is that

442
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: survival instinct that we both have. We've talked about it,

443
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: but now it feels a little bit more positive. And

444
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: now I'm like, yeah, what if I did go back

445
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: for an MFA, What if I did get into production?

446
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: What the fuck?

447
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: Like?

448
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: Who am I? Well?

449
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: Nothing nothing changes until you do. I firmly, firmly believe

450
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: that bit of advice, and it has been true in

451
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: my own life. Nothing will change into you do so

452
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 2: until you decided I'm willing to open myself up to

453
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: something else. Now things are positive and possible. Yeah, and

454
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: I think that's great.

455
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I'm very excited speaking of non linear timelines.

456
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 2: Oh boy, are we getting into our bug and movies

457
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: for this week.

458
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: I was trying to honor the Dan Yelle segue.

459
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: It was great.

460
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.

461
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: You did a great job that spot. The fuck on

462
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: our theme this week is have you Seen the Ghost

463
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: of John? Movies told in non chronological order or like

464
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: roundabout ways. Did you ever sing that song when you

465
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: were a kid? That's how I thought of the theme.

466
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: I have never even heard of it. Oh song.

467
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: It is the first song I ever learned how to

468
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: sing in the round. What so when I was a

469
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 2: little kid, they in music class, they taught us this

470
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: song in school. Okay, And for those of you who

471
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: might not know, singing in the round is like you

472
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: start singing and then somebody else can come in and

473
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: start the verse later and it's you know, you keep

474
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: it going. Yeah, have you seen the Ghost of John?

475
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: Is the goddamn shit soundtrack in my life? Wow, revolutionary moment.

476
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: Oh thankfully?

477
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah?

478
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, singing so much in this episode, I do not

479
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: have a good voice.

480
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: Has to clear the rights for this banger.

481
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the lawyers are gonna be like, really, we're

482
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: starting twenty twenty four with you clearing five songs that

483
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: Danielle could not stop singing? Really is this?

484
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: I mean this song has to be like thousands of

485
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: years old. I mean I think it's like in the

486
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: public domain.

487
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: Right, it's like a pilgrim song, I think.

488
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: And one guy in North Dakota's like, I own that song.

489
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm taking those bitches down.

490
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: There's a family who has built a legacy of riches

491
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 2: on the backs of the rights to this song, and

492
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: we're gonna find that out real quick, real quick.

493
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: But now you gotta say it, so let's get sued.

494
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: Okay, heavy.

495
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: MyD this to myself?

496
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: All right, have you seen the ghost of John?

497
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: Long white bones with the skin all gone? Wouldn't it

498
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: be chilly with no skin on?

499
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: Hey?

500
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 2: So if I start with have you seen the ghost

501
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: of John? When I finished that sentence, somebody else could

502
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: kick in with have you seen the ghost of scene? Yeah?

503
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: Then you just keep it going. But it's about skinless man,

504
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: skinless man who's all bones, yeah, just rolling around haunting you.

505
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: Wow, I can't Well, it doesn't surprise me that that

506
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: is an inspirational song for you, just subject wise Yeah.

507
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: The only song in the round I even think I

508
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: know is like Crimson and Clover.

509
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: Oh that's not even the song. That's just a fucking

510
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: fridge of the song that I.

511
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: Just been thinking of, like layered singing, like people starting

512
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: at different times. That's the only one I know.

513
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: Well, this could have been Crimson and Clover as a theme,

514
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: but instead as have you seen the Ghost of Job?

515
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: No, No, it's perfect. It's perfect because, as we know,

516
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: you come up with the theme names. So that's I

517
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: want it to be true to you and your legacy.

518
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: We both do.

519
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: But I did co upe with this one.

520
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 1: We both Yeah. Well okay, so can I ask you?

521
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been talking a lot about, you know,

522
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: the business and the creative process what it so have

523
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: you attempted to do like in your screenwriting or your

524
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: television running. Have you ever attempted to do like a

525
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: non linear storyline for something.

526
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, my first novel that I just finished writing,

527
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's told in a nonlinear way, but it's

528
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: it's not as difficult to access as some nonlinear stories are.

529
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: Like you're fully aware, hopefully when you're reading it, that

530
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 2: we're going back in time, we're going back and forth,

531
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: but it was really interesting, and I think that there's

532
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: there's something about digging into the past as a way

533
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: to explain the present that I really love in creative works.

534
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I it's I love this theme this week

535
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: because I like the like thought experiment obviously of like

536
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: a non chronological you know, story, But then I've also

537
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: thought about it in terms of, like there have been

538
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: times where it's it works really well, like somebody's done

539
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: it really well in a movie, and then other times

540
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: where it's like, no, what's going on? I'm very confused,

541
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: you know. So I guess I was kind of curious

542
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: about your thoughts on how how to make it good

543
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: and how to make it hear it enough so that

544
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: people know, like, are you gonna, like, do you believe

545
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: in the big like dreamy like Wavene's world, flashback hand

546
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: waving stuff.

547
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: Or I mean, my my personal ethos is that if

548
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: you're using any kind of device, it needs to be

549
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: in service of the story instead of the story being

550
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: in service of it. So I think that you can't

551
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: just throw that shit in as a way to like

552
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: make it interesting. And I've seen a lot of people

553
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: try to do that kind of stuff like, Oh, we'll

554
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: just like do this whole episode on the moon for

555
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 2: no fucking reason, and you're like, oh, but that doesn't

556
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: service the story. It's not necessary to the story. But

557
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: then I've seen it done very well. I don't know

558
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: if you're if you did you ever watch BoJack Horseman.

559
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: I didn't, even though I've been meeting to forever. Obviously

560
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: it's an incredible fucking show. And they did one episode

561
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: where the whole thing is underwater and there's a reason

562
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: for that, but the whole thing is underwater and it

563
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: leads to the the funniest joke at the end, like

564
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: the literal last word of the episode, and it's the

565
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: funniest thing I've ever seen. And it's in service of

566
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: the show and the characters and the story, and it works.

567
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,239
Speaker 2: But there are a lot of people who kind of

568
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: just think that they need to flex their creativity by

569
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: making things not make sense, and those are never to

570
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: me worthwhile. I think that in something like the movies

571
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 2: that we're discussing this week, it's in service of telling

572
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: the story in a more detailed and rich way, so

573
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: that I love and it kind of I think in

574
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: both of our movies you understand or you come to understand,

575
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: or at least it is explained by the end exactly

576
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: why it was told in that way.

577
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that there's I think there's a

578
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: cool contrast too, of these two movies, because your movie

579
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: is very consistently dipping in and out of things, right, Yeah,

580
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: My movie feels in a weird way, like there's a

581
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: moment in the story where the timeline gets altered, right,

582
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: So it's like this one kind of like portal. I'll

583
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: probably call it a portal moment or something. And I

584
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: started thinking about that in terms of because I had

585
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: not seen I have not seen your movie since it

586
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: came out, and I'm like, oh my god, oh yeah,

587
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: and I and trust me, when when that movie came out,

588
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: it was like Michelle Gudrey was like the number one

589
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: dude out of everybody that I knew, Like everybody was

590
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: I knew was obsessed with this movie and his work,

591
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: his music videos obviously, and I forgot how emotional it is.

592
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, we're gonna talk about it for sure.

593
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, But it's Yeah, I like these

594
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: two together because, like I said, I think to contrast

595
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: them is interesting. But they're also you know, running on

596
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: that same theme of it being kind of like, you know,

597
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: weird kind of dips in time. And and then I

598
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: also thought of an alternate, which is so bad. Both

599
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: these movies feature guys with dark hair that is kind

600
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: of spiked up and like those chunky black glasses. The fuck.

601
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: I was very heavily triggered by Justin Throw's look absolute

602
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: the glasses alone. God, I was like, this is like

603
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: a I am speaking of moving through time. I am

604
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: rocketed back to like the early two thousands with that,

605
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: you know that fucking like what is that? It's like

606
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: a millennium look of likes.

607
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: I want to say it's like an urge overkill look,

608
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: but they're too cool to attribute to this thing. This

609
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: is like a mishmash of like a big collar with

610
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: the like ray bands that just have regular lenses in

611
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: them and not sunglass lenses in them, but the glasses them's,

612
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: like the frames themselves are still absurd, and like it

613
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: was just such a weird mix of time like seventies, sixties, eighties, nineties.

614
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: Like ugh, and like Mark Ruffalo in your film is

615
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: not as bad as Justin Threw in my movie, But

616
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: I just have to say like that. Look, man, I

617
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: was like, we're back, baby, We're back. Ooh.

618
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: I couldn't take it. Well, I just want to get

619
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 2: into it. I yeah, go talking about him.

620
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: You're going first, let's go.

621
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: I want to get through the traumatic backlot of these

622
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: movies from the aunts early aughts. My movie was released

623
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: in two thousand and four. Screenplays by Charlie Kaufman, directed

624
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: by Michel Gondry. My movie is Eternal Sunshine of the

625
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: Spotless Mind.

626
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: There's a ronny risk of brain damage just on a

627
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: par with a night of heavy drinking. Nothing you'll miss. Oh.

628
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 2: So I have so much to say in a good way,

629
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 2: so much to say. I'm going to start with the

630
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: one sentence. My one sentence synopsis is Bereft over the

631
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: end of their relationship. A couple undergoes a procedure to

632
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: erase each other from their memories, only to find that

633
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: their emotional connection won't be as easy to shake.

634
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: That's a good one, right, So I.

635
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: Forgot completely that this movie won an Academy Award for

636
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: Best Original Screenplay.

637
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: Oh on it, I forgot that too.

638
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: Wow, completely forgot they won a fucking Academy Award. I've

639
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 2: always thought of that as like this little darling, beautiful, cute,

640
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 2: little indie movie, but it's not. It was a huge,

641
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: successful fail. And what I like about this time of life,

642
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: this like two thousand and four five six time, is

643
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: I feel like we were really ramping up to kind

644
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: of respecting and admiring and funding art and film that

645
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: was a little out of sorts. Like the general public

646
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: would go and see this movie. This wasn't just conscribed

647
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 2: to like a revival house theater kind of viewing. So

648
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: I remember this being in like big as theaters, And

649
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: part of it is because of the cast. You know,

650
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 2: you've got Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey and Elijah Wood

651
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: and Mark Ruffalo and Kirsten Dunst are kind of the

652
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: primary cast. But people went and saw this movie. Yeah,

653
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: who would normally never see shit like this?

654
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: Well, I think to that point it feels kind of like,

655
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, we were still kind of in the tail

656
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: end of the like nineties independent cinema movement or revolution

657
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it. So yeah, I

658
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: think that that movies like this were still like big

659
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: movies that were being made, and you know, people were

660
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: seeing them and they were in a lot of theaters.

661
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know when I love it. Yeah,

662
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: I don't know when it dissipated. I mean, I don't know,

663
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: but this still felt like a time that was very

664
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: fertile creatively for that kind of stuff.

665
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 2: And it's perfect because you have again these these wonderful collaborators.

666
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: So Michelle Gondry, who's the French filmmaker, and he's known

667
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: mostly for like his kind of visual manipulations and like

668
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: the dreamlike effects and kind of fucking with the form,

669
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: not in a CGI way, but in a realistic, physical way,

670
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: which kind of sets him apart from people who do

671
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 2: that kind of visual manipulation in a computer effects kind

672
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: of way. And like most like a lot of our

673
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: favorite directors, he started if music videos and really like

674
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: cut his teeth on videos for like Deaft Punk and

675
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: Beck and Radiohead, and I think that is an art

676
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: form that is now gone forever. I hope it's not,

677
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 2: but to be able to make a short film essentially

678
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: for a song really gave us a lot of incredible

679
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 2: directors that we now really value and cherish. And I'm

680
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 2: worried for the world in terms of the disappearance of

681
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 2: that as a kind of the stomping grounds or the

682
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: initial entry point for developing your creative your directorial and

683
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: creative flow.

684
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, listen to me. That that is cinema

685
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: if you want to get down to it. Like I

686
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: think music videos are. I think they should be archived

687
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: and preserved like films should. I think what makes it complicated?

688
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: And I only know this sort of because I did.

689
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: I was trying to do a programming thing at TCM

690
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: once about music videos, and I think the problem is

691
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: that the music companies are involved, and a lot of

692
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: times they were seen as kind of promotional pieces for

693
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, music companies. So you know, it's weird because

694
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: it might be like, you know, Warner Brothers music or

695
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: music or somebody owns the owns the music video and

696
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: so maybe it's hard to you know, get in theaters

697
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: or get onto Blu Rays or you know, Criterion Channel

698
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: or something like that. So yeah, it's a complicated world, unfortunately,

699
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: it seems like. But yeah, I think they should be

700
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: up there like they should be art, right, Absolutelysoluh.

701
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: I can think of so many videos that I constantly

702
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 2: reference in terms of the book when I'm thinking about

703
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 2: my own creative life. So I fully appreciate that he

704
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: was part of that world where he was able to

705
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: kind of develop a little bit of his style in

706
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: trying things through music. And Charlie Kaufman is also incredible.

707
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: He's known for writing things like being John Malkovich and

708
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: and now Me Lisa and I'm Thinking of Ending Things,

709
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: and I kind of forgot that he also wrote the

710
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: screenplay for Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. But he's just

711
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: like this master of the nonlinear story and just a

712
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: very interesting, thoughtful guy. Like he really likes to work

713
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 2: with themes of like identity, crisis and mortality, but they're

714
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: always unique and creative the way that he's expressing that.

715
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: And I would recommend if you haven't already. He won

716
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: the Laurel Award for Achievement in Screenwriting at the WGA Awards,

717
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: and you should one hundred percent look up his speech.

718
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: His speech is incredible and I'm going to paraphrase here,

719
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: but at one point he says something similar to you

720
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: as a writer, as an artist, you should not try

721
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: to please the people with money. You should be working

722
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: for the world. And I just found the whole speech

723
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: like super inspirational, and his work is inspirational in that

724
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: way because, on its face, Charlie Kaufman is not someone

725
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 2: who should be successful in this iteration of Hollywood. Like

726
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: he is a weirdo. He writes weird things and strange

727
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: ideas that are sometimes difficult to get into. But I

728
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: love that he is. I think his success to me

729
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: as a mark of what could be if we give

730
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: more people a chance. Yeah, and I think I was

731
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: watching an interview with John Cusack and the way that

732
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: Being John Malcovitch came about is John Cusack went to

733
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: his reps and basically said, what's the most unproducible script

734
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: you've ever read? And it was Being John Malcovitch, and

735
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: he's like, I want to do that. So I appreciate

736
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: people who look for things that are a little out

737
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: of sorts to kind of give writers like this a

738
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: leg up. But again, this movie is also helped by

739
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 2: an incredible cast. I will say, in my opinion, every

740
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: single person in this movie is the hottest they've ever been.

741
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: They are all at personal peak hotness. And I'm including

742
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: Tom Wilkinson in that.

743
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you would be remiss if you didn't, but

744
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: I have to agree with you.

745
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: I think everyone personal peak hotness, Kirsten Duns, Jim Carrey,

746
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: Kate Winslet, Mark Ruffalo, everyone. Yeah, it's hot in this movie,

747
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: and I chose it for the theme. Kind of we've

748
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: already talked about it a little bit, but I've told

749
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: it because it's told out of order in so many ways.

750
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: So the end of the movie is actually the beginning,

751
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: and you're learning about this relationship in reverse, so you're

752
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: kind of but you're also forced into the depths of

753
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: the mind using past experiences to explain current pain. But

754
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: it's also infused with this real time story that's happening

755
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: and that's developing as the erasure is happening. So there's

756
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: like so many different timelines that we're crossing here and

757
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: so many different ways that this is kind of told,

758
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: and the whole thing is kind of told in the round.

759
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, I love it. I do think that this

760
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: movie is a love song. It's a testament to the

761
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: power of the human heart. I've always loved it. I

762
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: think it kind of it shakes me into a state

763
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: of belief that I'm not really easily able to into

764
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: on my own, because there's for me, there's a lot

765
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: of hopelessness when love ends. But this movie kind of

766
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: in all its complication, proves the opposite and how hopeful

767
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: it is to end things. And it's also just not

768
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: about the good or bad moments in a relationship. Romantic

769
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: relationship is kind of about all the stuff that like

770
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 2: it doesn't help us grow as people to consider love

771
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: in those extremes as just good or just bad. And

772
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 2: I think this movie does a good job of exemplifying that.

773
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: And it was, for all intents and purposes, a pretty

774
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: grueling shoot. There are a lot of fights between Jim

775
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: Carrey and Michelle Gondrew about the creative process, but this one.

776
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 2: There's an article in Vanity Fair that was published in

777
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: March of twenty nineteen, like on the fifteenth anniversary of

778
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: the release of the movie, and it's called mind Games

779
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: and Broken Hearts by Johanna Desta. And this particular quote,

780
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: or this particular I just it made me laugh so

781
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: hard quote a post SNL pre thirty rock Tracy Morgan,

782
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: for example, played Joel's neighbor in a few flashbacks that

783
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 2: did not make the finished film. He's a comedic genius,

784
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: said Gondry. Genius, Carrie emphasized, but the reality is he

785
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: was Tracy Morgan, which made his presence a bit of

786
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: a distraction. Morgan's rep says, the comedian doesn't remember if

787
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 2: he acted in the film end quote. Oh my god, dude,

788
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: And look I'm laughing at that. But I also have

789
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: to address the fact that, yes, in twenty fourteen, Tracy

790
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: Morgan was involved in a near fatal car accident and

791
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: was in a coma. But I just love the simplicity

792
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: of that sentence, whereas Rep is like, yeah, we're not

793
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: talking about because he doesn't even remember it.

794
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know that. About Jim Carrey and Michelle Gondry.

795
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: I mean, they have a good relationship. They kind of

796
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 2: framed it as if they were brothers, like they were bickering.

797
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 2: But Jim Carrey was really invested, or seemed via this

798
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: article to kind of be invested in protecting the actors

799
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: because the work itself and the subject matter itself was

800
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: so difficult, and Michelle Gondry kept wanting to push and

801
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: push and push, and He's like, we need a break.

802
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of the arguments stem from that,

803
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: from what it sounds like. But they work together again,

804
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 2: and you know, their friends and they still work together creatively,

805
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 2: so it wasn't destructive. But yeah, apparently this was a

806
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: difficult movie to film.

807
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, totally. I could totally see that. Yeah,

808
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: it was interesting because it reminded me. It made me

809
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: have to go back and remember that kind of Jim

810
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: Carrey metamorphosis, like his acting, you know, because it was like,

811
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: obviously who was in broad comedies throughout the entirety of

812
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: the nineties, and then I think it was like maybe

813
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: Man on the Moon or something where people were like, oh,

814
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: he can do like serious roles too. But even even

815
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: in spite of that, I still feel like this movie

816
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: it almost felt like he could Like it was that

817
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: moment where I think I thought, oh, he could be

818
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 1: indie actor. He can be in very stylized, artistic, you know,

819
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: indie films in a way even though I know a

820
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: lot of people saw it, but you know what I mean,

821
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: in that way where it's like he doesn't have to

822
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 1: be you know, the mask. He can also do these

823
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: like really small, really more complex roles too.

824
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and he had done The Truman Show by the

825
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: time this movie was being filmed, Like, so I think

826
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: that was part of Michelle Gondry's thought process as well,

827
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 2: which was like, oh, he can actually do these more dramatic,

828
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: smaller stories for these Like I think that was a

829
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: big part of it for him as well, and I

830
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: gotta say he's pretty good at it. Like, I don't

831
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: know much about the man personally. I just don't. I

832
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: think there's probably well, I remember he dated Jenny what's

833
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: her face McCarthy. Yeah, at the same time she was

834
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 2: pushing the whole like autism is caused by whatever. Shit.

835
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 2: I don't think he read with that. I can't remember.

836
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: So I don't know much about him personally. I just

837
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 2: I just don't. But I appreciate that he is so

838
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: agile of an actor that I've seen him in things

839
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: that bring me to absolute, absolute tears with laughter and

840
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 2: absolute tears of sadness. I think that is special.

841
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was very like his character. Obviously you're probably

842
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: gonna talk about it, but yeah, I think that was

843
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 1: like kind of what I mean is that his character

844
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: was very downtrodden, sad like visually looked depressed, do you

845
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, And I just I don't

846
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: know if I had if I was, if I had

847
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: seen him like that before so it made this movie

848
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: like more special for me because of that.

849
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Joel the character of Joel Joel Barish, we

850
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: don't know what he does for a living, and we

851
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 2: also don't care, which I love, but he is he's

852
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: very quiet and shy and retreating and he kind of

853
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: writes in draws in his journal and and you get

854
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: the feeling that even though he has a thoughtful interior life,

855
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: that he's never learned how to share himself. So he's

856
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: he's not a loner because he has friends and he's

857
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: able to have relationships, but he is alone and that

858
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: does kind of translate to like some of the depression

859
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: that you're talking about that you can visually see on

860
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 2: his person, Like he's always like never quite clean shaven,

861
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: and his hair is a little bit shaggy, and like

862
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: he really does visually affect that loneliness. So well, Yeah,

863
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 2: which was again very interesting for someone who you're used

864
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 2: to seeing is like this, you know, very specific comedic actor.

865
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: And I also love that Clementine Kraushinski, who's the Kate

866
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: Wins like character, she's the polar opposite of Joel, like

867
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: she lives her life out loud. She could probably benefit

868
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: from a little more interior thought, But she seems uncomfortable

869
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: with herself even as she's confidently presenting herself to the world.

870
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: Like it's a very interesting dichotomy, Yeah, it kind of

871
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 2: and like her whole personality feeling like a defense mechanism.

872
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: So she has this whole speech about how she's just

873
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: a fucked up girl looking for her own peace of mind.

874
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: But she says it a couple of times in the film,

875
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: and every time she does it sounds rehearsed, like to

876
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 2: the point where it's maybe lost its meaning, and it

877
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: just feels like more of her armor. So as the

878
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: movie progresses, you kind of wonder if she really means

879
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: what she's saying when she's giving people that speech. And

880
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: there's also this kind of interesting interplay going on with

881
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: her hair. So there's this article on the website Black

882
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 2: Girl Nerds, which if you haven't dug into you, she

883
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: absolutely should. And the writer of this article, Session Devi Kohler,

884
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: talks about the changing color of her hair as a

885
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: way to indicate her emotional state. So when she first

886
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: meets Joel on the beach in Montalk, her hair is green,

887
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 2: which Session says as a sign of like growth and freshness,

888
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 2: something new, blossoming. The next time they made at Barnes

889
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: and Noble, her hair is bright red, which is kind

890
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 2: of a sign of danger but also love and passion.

891
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: And then it's orange, which is kind of like when

892
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: their relationship is disintegrating like a sunset, like a twilight.

893
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: And when they meet again in mon talk after their

894
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: memories are wiped, her hair is blue, which this writer

895
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: says is kind of a sadness or a loss that

896
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: she can't remember. So I like that somebody was able

897
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 2: to go through the changing hair color because it's not

898
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: just an outward presentation of how different Clementine feels and

899
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 2: how much she's trying to separate herself from the world,

900
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 2: but that it speaks to her emotional state I think

901
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: is interesting. So go to black Girl Nerds and read

902
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: that article.

903
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: That's awesome, and.

904
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: Then Joel and Clementine together I kind of find that

905
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: like like they have found each other against all of

906
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: the against all the odds, like amidst all this inner turmoil.

907
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 2: Because that's what we do, right, We take our pain

908
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 2: into the world like these little misfit piece of a

909
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: jigsaw puzzle and see if any of the sides click

910
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: with somebody, right, that's what we do. So when the

911
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: movie starts, it's Valentine's Day, Joel wakes up. He has

912
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: this like inexplicable urge to ditch work and go to

913
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 2: Montalk in the middle of winter, which is a beachy

914
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: town that you normally wouldn't go to in the winter,

915
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: and two years of pages have been ripped out of

916
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: his journal, but he doesn't remember doing that. So there's

917
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 2: already an unsettling feeling at the start of the movie.

918
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 2: And you do get to see a little bit of

919
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: comedy Jim Carrey when he's running away from the train,

920
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: like he's running as if he's being chased, but literally

921
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 2: nobody's chasing this man. He's just like, doesn't want to

922
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 2: go to work today. But it's very very And he

923
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 2: sees Clementine on the beach, and then he sees her

924
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: at the diner, and then she finally talks to him

925
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: when they're both on the train back to New York City,

926
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: and it turns awkward very quickly because she is a

927
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: little caustic and he is a little shut down, and

928
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: it becomes even more awkward when he offers her a

929
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: ride home, and they're having really different experiences once they

930
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 2: get back to her apartment, because like she's kind of

931
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: turning into the sexy flirtatious moment, but he looks like

932
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 2: he wants to leave from the minute he gets there,

933
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: even though he's really attracted to her, Like he's so uncomfortable,

934
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: so he leaves, and then there's this really sweet moment

935
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 2: where he goes home and calls her right away, and

936
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 2: he seems so much more relaxed and more himself, and

937
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 2: that is true of so many people where it's like

938
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: in person not great, but on the phone or in

939
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 2: some other way, they're kind of more comfortable with themselves,

940
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: so they're more able to kind of express their emotions.

941
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: And then again, Clementine is very impulsive and she kind

942
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 2: of asks him to drive her to the Charles River

943
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: to see it at night and have a night picnic

944
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: because it's really beautiful this time of year, and he

945
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: does it. But I love this scene because you get

946
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: to see their personalities at play. So he is instantly

947
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: fearful that the ice is going to break before he

948
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: even leaves the shore, versus Clementine, who runs full force

949
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: onto the ice and falls on her ass immediately, and

950
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: when they come back to the city, it's morning, and

951
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: again this is taking place in New York City, even

952
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: though they drive to the Charles which is in Massachusetts,

953
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: and they come back and she's like she wakes up

954
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: in the car and it's like, Hey, I want to

955
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 2: sleep at your house. I'm gonna go get my toothbrush,

956
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 2: which is kind of there's this intimacy that they've developed

957
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,720
Speaker 2: over this date. But then Elijah Wood knocks on Joel's

958
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 2: window and asks Joel what he's doing here, and that

959
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 2: really kicks off the movie. So we were unsettled. We've

960
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: got a little bit of confusion. We've got somebody that

961
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: we're not quite sure how they fit into the story.

962
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: We've got the beginning of this relationship, or what we

963
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: think is the beginning of this relationship, and that's what

964
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 2: kind of pushes us into the movie. So when you

965
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 2: cut to Joel, the next time we see Joel, he's

966
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 2: crying in his car. So you think this is a

967
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: linear story because you just watched them meet and now

968
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: you're watching the aftermath of a breakup. But actually we're

969
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: already back in time to when they broke up three

970
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: days ago and as we watch Joel take some pills

971
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 2: and kind of crash out, we learn that a company

972
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 2: called Lacuna Inc. Essentially breaks into your house, targets and

973
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: erases your memories, and you wake up with the memory

974
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: is gone, like you've approved this process days before. So

975
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,439
Speaker 2: now we're learning about how Joel got to Lacuna Inc.

976
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 2: By seeing the story play out backwards in the memories

977
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: that they're rasing. So the memory erasers are the people

978
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 2: who work for Lacuna Inc. Are Patrick, who's the Elijah

979
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: Wood character, Stan played by Mark Ruffalo, Mary Kirson Dunns's character,

980
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: and Howard Merswact played by Tom Wilkinson. He's kind of

981
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: the doctor who created this all. And again, what I

982
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: love about Charliekaffman, what I love about Michelle Gondry is

983
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: that you don't have to know what version of a

984
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: world that this technology could exist in. It just exists.

985
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 2: They don't go into the backstory about how it was developed,

986
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: They don't go into any of that. It's just it

987
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: exists and the world is forced to deal with that.

988
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:02,479
Speaker 2: So Stan and Trick come into your house after they've

989
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: targeted your memories in the office, and I kind of again, like,

990
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 2: I kind of love how we're starting. They start the

991
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: backwards process of the memories slowly enough that you can

992
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: get into the rhythm of it. Like he goes to

993
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: apologize to Clementine, but she's already kissing someone else and

994
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to know who he is. So he's kind

995
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: of telling his friends like this is fucked up, like

996
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 2: I don't understand why she's treating me this way. And

997
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: his friends played by David Cross and Jane Adams. I

998
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: was very lucky to work with Jane Adams on Maniac

999
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 2: and she's a delightful person. I also worked with Justin

1000
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 2: Throw on Maniac. I went to a party, a dinner

1001
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: party at his house, and he's also very nice, amazing,

1002
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: but Jane. The characters, these friends are kind of hilarious

1003
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 2: in their own right because they're always bickering and fighting

1004
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: and you're like, how are they even together? Like should

1005
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 2: they have this fucking procedure? They're always bickering, They're always fighting,

1006
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: And finally Rob, the David Cross character, is like, look,

1007
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: we got this fucking letter. Here's what's going on. And

1008
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: they tell Joel through this letter that Clementine had him

1009
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: erase from her memory. So that's how he finds out

1010
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: about this company, and Joel almost erases his memories of

1011
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: her in Revenge, which I think is kind of funny. Yeah,

1012
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: And then as we're kind of moving through the movie,

1013
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: the visuals are so interesting to me because as we're

1014
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: moving backwards through these memories, we see them kind of

1015
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: go foggy, or the light dissipates, or the name of

1016
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: the stores disappear as they're walking, and like everything kind

1017
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: of falls away, like sand being washed away from a shore.

1018
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: Like it's very very interesting to see the visual representation

1019
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: of this memory erasure.

1020
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, where the faces go like people's faces are just

1021
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: like completely blank. Yeah, Oh my gosh, crazy.

1022
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: I fucking love it. I fucking love it. So we

1023
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 2: go backwards even further and we see Joel meeting everyone

1024
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: at Lacuna, Inc. And they ask him to bring in

1025
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: everything that ever reminded him of Clementine so they could

1026
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: create this mind map. And there's this really funny detail

1027
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: where Mary's on the phone with someone and she's like, no,

1028
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 2: you can't come in for a third time. We just

1029
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: don't do it three times in a month. It's just

1030
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 2: kind of funny to think that like somebody could become

1031
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: addicted to this process of erasing memories.

1032
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like this very subtle moment when he when

1033
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: Joel first comes to the office where Kirsen Duns is

1034
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: behind you know, she's like the receptionist and she's printing

1035
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: out all of those cards. And I was like that

1036
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: made me sad as fuck, Like I was mad, how

1037
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: so many people want their memories erased? Oh yeah?

1038
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 2: And then he looks around Yeah, and like there's somebody

1039
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: next to him with like a box of dog stuff.

1040
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: Oh, you're like the fuck or that like older woman

1041
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: who's crying and like you know, they're playing like an

1042
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: old like rag Time record or something. And I was like, damn,

1043
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: Like the implication of all those moments just like really

1044
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: hit me this time.

1045
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 2: So absolutely, And I have a question. So I'm wondering,

1046
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: I'm curious if this tech existed, would you have this

1047
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: procedure done? Would you have entire memories erased?

1048
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know what? No, Like A for several reasons.

1049
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: A Because I feel like I'm a rich I could

1050
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: barely remember like that I just told you the anecdote

1051
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: from middle school. I kind of like barely remember that.

1052
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: As times keeps moving forward. I find that like my

1053
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: really like kind of early kind of elementary school memories

1054
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: are getting really far away. Like I'm like, I barely

1055
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: remember like first second grade, Like.

1056
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1057
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I feel like it's kind of happened naturally.

1058
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: I think it's oh yeah, point.

1059
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,959
Speaker 2: Time is the ultimate mind eraser for fucking sure.

1060
00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also I don't know, you know, I yeah,

1061
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: I I gotta be honest. I kind of like to

1062
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: raw Dog Life, I think we've talked about this, you know, like,

1063
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: certainly I've had very painful things happened to me in

1064
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: the past, right, but I'm also like, do I want

1065
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: those to go away? Like I feel like, in a

1066
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: weird way, it's like all that stuff informs so much

1067
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: else that for me to like remove it there feels

1068
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: like there's no engine, you know.

1069
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: Apps that I completely agree. I think there are probably

1070
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 2: moments in my life where I would have opted for

1071
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 2: this procedure if it was available, But right now I

1072
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 2: would never do anything like this. I think that. But

1073
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: I also think the movie answers that question for us,

1074
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: because we can kind of see that Clementine has had

1075
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: this procedure done and she is freaking out but doesn't

1076
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: know why. And I feel like that would be worse

1077
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 2: for me to be like I'm having emotions that I

1078
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: cannot directly attribute to anything, and that would make me

1079
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: feel worse. So we're kind of seeing that happen because

1080
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: Clementine calls Patrick at one point we find out they're dating,

1081
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: and she's like, I don't understand why I'm sad. I

1082
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: don't understand why I feel this way. I don't understand

1083
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 2: like what's going on. I feel like I'm losing my mind.

1084
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: So this procedure, even though it seems to be an

1085
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 2: immediate bomb to curing some initial pain, is not a

1086
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: long term solution.

1087
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

1088
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: So I kind of love that.

1089
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: And I also have to admit, like there was a

1090
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: moment I was thinking about it, because you know, you

1091
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: asked this kind of like rhetorical question about would you

1092
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: do it? But it's like I've also been in that

1093
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: position where I wanted to be over something so badly

1094
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: that in the moment, I'm like, damn, if I could

1095
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: get that eternal sunshine, shit, I would do this immediately.

1096
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: Like breakups or you know, any kind of thing where

1097
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: you're just like, so you just want to be able

1098
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: to move time for so you could just like be

1099
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: over it, so that desperation, you know, I've definitely felt,

1100
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: so I agree.

1101
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 2: I agree, and I think it's it's again like different

1102
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 2: points in your life, you kind of but I don't

1103
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 2: think I would have gotten to this point in my

1104
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 2: life where I'm more emotionally attuned and able to deal

1105
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: with those moments if I hadn't gone through it. So

1106
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: I think if you just erase them or forget them,

1107
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 2: or push them down or repress them, because you don't

1108
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 2: need an eraser machine to forget shit, you can. Really

1109
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: the human mind is very well attuned to suppression of thought,

1110
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: So I think that eventually the again, the kind of

1111
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 2: commentary is like, well, it doesn't actually go away, and

1112
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 2: it usually turns into something else that can either help

1113
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: you or further harm you. So yeah, But I love

1114
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: the real time story that's happening in regards to Clementine

1115
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: freaking out because Stan and Mary are kind of dating, Like,

1116
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 2: she comes over and she hates Patrick and she's glad

1117
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 2: when he leaves because Clementine calls him to freak out,

1118
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 2: and it's kind of funny to see them all like

1119
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: sitting around and drinking beer around Joel and getting high

1120
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 2: and dancing, because you do wonder like how would this

1121
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 2: tech be abused or what actually happens when someone like

1122
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: you're knocked out in your apartment and someone is working

1123
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 2: on your brain.

1124
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's also a job for somebody else. Is

1125
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: fuck off at right.

1126
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 2: Like every job has a level of fuck offery.

1127
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: I love that.

1128
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love it. And Mary eventually becomes a really

1129
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: an integral part of the plot, But when we first

1130
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 2: meet her, she's just kind of obsessed with Howard. She's

1131
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 2: just like he's the best. There's this really funny moment.

1132
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: Mark Gufflow is so fucking funny in this movie. I

1133
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: wish she would do more comedies where they're on the

1134
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 2: bed and they're both on their backs on either side

1135
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: of Joel, and he's talking about something intense about like

1136
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 2: the clash, Like, yeah, the clash. They call themselves the band,

1137
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 2: the only band that mattered for this reason. Bah blahlah blah.

1138
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, it's kind of like how Howard. He

1139
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: just goes yeah, I know, I.

1140
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: Was like, yo, I've been there, not feeling my vibe

1141
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: at all.

1142
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 2: I need got about this dude again.

1143
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:16,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, pull up, stakes, it's not going down.

1144
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 2: It is so fucking funny. But also what's funny is

1145
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: prior to Mary arriving, as Patrick and stand are working

1146
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: on Joel, Patrick reveals that he fell in love with

1147
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: Clementine the night they erased her, and now they're dating.

1148
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 2: So Joel is hearing all of this in his mind

1149
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 2: like he's asleep, but he's hearing all of this as

1150
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: a kind of floating voice that he can't figure out

1151
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: what's going on. And as Patrick and stand are like

1152
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: discussing this, Joel figures out that Patrick has also stolen

1153
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: his bag of Clementine memories and is using it to

1154
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: woo her. So he's basically recreating their exact relationship, which

1155
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: is so fucked up because clearly the relationship ended so hard,

1156
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 2: probably that they both opted in to brain damage to

1157
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 2: forget it. But it's also again a further indication of

1158
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 2: how this tech can be abused. Yeah, So, as we

1159
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 2: move from like kind of the end of the relationship

1160
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,479
Speaker 2: to the middle, Joel realizes that he wants to keep

1161
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 2: some of his memories, and they're the kind of memories

1162
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: that are like those tender moments of vulnerability and connection,

1163
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 2: and like, yes, we see how the relationship ended, you know,

1164
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,919
Speaker 2: with these fraught talks about whether or not they should

1165
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: have a baby, or she thinks he's boring and he

1166
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 2: thinks she's drunk and impulsive. So they have fundamentally been

1167
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 2: very different people from the beginning, and a lot of

1168
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,439
Speaker 2: relationships fall apart after that initial spark once you learn

1169
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 2: who each other actually might be. But I really love

1170
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 2: that he's again. There's just this moment that's so heart

1171
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: wrenching where he's like, let me keep this one, like,

1172
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 2: let me keep this one memory, and he starts to

1173
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 2: have that feeling more and more as they go back

1174
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: towards the beginning of the relationship. So the rest of

1175
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,959
Speaker 2: the movie is really about him trying to hide Clementine

1176
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 2: in memories that are off the map. And what I

1177
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 2: find fascinating is that the more he's trying to hide

1178
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 2: her in his mind, the deeper he has to go,

1179
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 2: and he ends up revealing more about himself than he

1180
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 2: possibly did in their relationship. But this version of Clementine

1181
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 2: is not real, like she only exists in his memories,

1182
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 2: so you kind of wonder, like, is he going to

1183
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 2: remember how it felt to be vulnerable with her, or

1184
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 2: how much he enjoyed showing her these moments of like

1185
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: humiliation and shame and trauma. I don't know, It's just

1186
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 2: it's fascinating to me that again, like this movie is

1187
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: doing so much on so many different levels, and that

1188
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 2: kind of juxtaposition, that juxtaposition of hiding someone while also

1189
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 2: revealing a lot to them is just something that I

1190
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 2: think is brilliant.

1191
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant writing, absolutely, and also like god, this is

1192
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: like this movie is like a visual masterpiece. Like I

1193
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I was really in awe about the

1194
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: different I mean, they must have had like a million setups.

1195
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: Like I was like, can you imagine like like this

1196
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: movie shot movie shoot? I mean I forgot about the

1197
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: even like the like little moments were they. I think

1198
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, Joel is like kind of remembering his

1199
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: childhood and they're like both taking a bath in the

1200
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: kitchen sink and it's like giant, you know, like all

1201
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: of the set. The set is giant, and so they

1202
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: look like little people in a sink, and I was like,

1203
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: damn they had Like speaking of production design, I mean

1204
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: they must have had a fucking blast designing that and

1205
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: I just like, but that is happening so quickly that

1206
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I mean it must have been. Yeah,

1207
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: so many set ups, so many.

1208
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 2: You know, and even the costume design, like when they're

1209
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: showing them as children together, like they're hiding in his mind,

1210
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 2: and the adult versions of them are wearing the outposit,

1211
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 2: the little kid versions of them were wearing like it's

1212
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: just so many thoughtful details. Yeah, it's really it really

1213
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 2: is a visually powerful and beautiful movie. I completely agree.

1214
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of things that happen, Like it's

1215
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: kind of amazing to think that more could happen. It's

1216
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 2: not like there's enough going on in this man's mind.

1217
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 2: But the real life story takes a real twist that

1218
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 2: I will not ruin for anyone. But I forgot how

1219
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 2: much I love that part of the movie as well.

1220
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1221
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 2: But yeah, so they end up, you know, Stan has

1222
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 2: to call in Howard because Joel is all over the

1223
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 2: place and the title of the film I think is

1224
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 2: also interesting. So as Howard is they're working on Joel

1225
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 2: and trying to kind of get him back online. Mary

1226
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 2: is obsessed with quotes, and she's telling him about how

1227
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 2: she read this quote by Alexander Pope, because she's reading

1228
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 2: quotes about memories and the mind, because she's, you know,

1229
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 2: again obsessed with this doctor. And in the poem that

1230
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 2: Alexander Pope wrote, Eluisa to Abelard, there's this fragment that

1231
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 2: the title of the film comes from. And I'll read

1232
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 2: it to you now. How happy is the blameless Vestal's

1233
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,480
Speaker 2: lot the world forgetting, by the world forgot eternal sunshine

1234
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 2: of the spotless mind, each prayer accepted and each wish resigned.

1235
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 2: And I just the whole poem is long, but it's lovely,

1236
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 2: and it's the poem itself is about this woman who's

1237
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: kind of trying to decide between her love for spirituality

1238
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: and her love for this man on earth. But it

1239
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 2: is about kind of that interior thought process and how

1240
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 2: lovely it would be to just be able to forget everything.

1241
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 2: So I think the title of the film is so

1242
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 2: thoughtfully chosen, even though when it came out, everyone's like,

1243
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 2: what the fuck this long, weird title, But it's perfect,

1244
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: it fits perfectly, and I just I love this movie.

1245
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 2: By the end of the movie, I just feel so

1246
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 2: tender and hopeful and renewed, and they really drag you

1247
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 2: through it. But it feels like such a great and

1248
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 2: realistic portrayal of like why we begin again after so

1249
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 2: many painful endings? And I just think I agree with you.

1250
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 2: I think it's a fucking masterpiece. I'm so glad we

1251
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 2: got to see it again. I just fucking love this movie.

1252
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's a nonlinear classic. Have you seen the

1253
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 2: Ghost of John?

1254
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: In the round? Absolutely?

1255
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 2: Number one with a.

1256
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: Bullet mine also is fucking with shol Mine girl, but

1257
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,799
Speaker 1: in a different way, like it's definitely a different tempo

1258
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: I think than You were a film. Yeah, my movie

1259
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: for the theme Have you Seen the Ghost of John?

1260
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: Is a movie from two thousand and one. It was

1261
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: obviously written in directed by David Lynch, and it's called

1262
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive. Come on, it'll be just like in the movies.

1263
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: We'll pretend to be someone else. H Okay. So yeah,

1264
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: we've done several David Lynch movies on the podcast before,

1265
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: so I encourage everybody to check those out. Just a

1266
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: little tiny bit of backstory about Mulholland Drive. So this

1267
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 1: was originally conceived for television, Okay, And from what I understand,

1268
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: they shot, they shot the majority of it, but then,

1269
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: like David Lynch decided to leave the ending off so

1270
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: that it could spin off into like a longer series

1271
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: if need be.

1272
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: God.

1273
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: But then when they brought it to ABC, which you

1274
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: know they they were the ones that had aired the

1275
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 1: original Twin Peaks series, they did not like it so

1276
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: and rejected it and said no thank you. But then

1277
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 1: David Lynch was like, okay, well, then let me finish

1278
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: it as a movie set.

1279
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that.

1280
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like the beginning or the the first

1281
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: part of it was conceived as a TV show and

1282
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: then the last bit is conceived as a film. Yeah.

1283
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: It's cool, And I think that contributes to the open

1284
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: endedness of this movie because I will say that I

1285
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: think that a lot of people consider Mulholland Drive to

1286
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: be one of David Lynch's best movies. He was nominated

1287
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 1: for an Oscar for Best Director for this movie. And

1288
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,520
Speaker 1: also not for nothing, this was kind of America's introduction

1289
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 1: to Naomi Watts in a lot of ways. I when

1290
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: I got the Mulholland Drive DVD, the Blu ray on Criterion,

1291
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 1: they have the special features are great because there's a

1292
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 1: lot of great interviews with people, and hers is really great.

1293
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 1: Her interviews great and I meant to watch it again,

1294
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 1: but I just didn't have time. But but I remember

1295
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: when I originally saw it. She talks a lot about

1296
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: how she was a struggling actor before this movie came out,

1297
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: and about how she kind of felt like a connection

1298
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 1: to some of the themes of the film because she

1299
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: was also kind of on her grind trying to make

1300
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: it in la you know, she was having you know,

1301
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: low moments at times, but that yeah, I mean, after

1302
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: this movie came out, she kind of became a star.

1303
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1304
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'll do a one sentenced synopsis of mohlland Drive.

1305
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:38,919
Speaker 1: A bride eyed and bushy tailed actress from Canada comes

1306
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles with dreams of stardom, but quickly gets

1307
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: roped into a Hollywood esque mystery involving a beautiful woman

1308
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: with amnesia.

1309
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 2: Ooh perfect.

1310
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 1: Okay, So I know there's a lot going on in

1311
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: this movie, So I'm just gonna give kind of general

1312
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: beats and then we'll just process the shit out of it.

1313
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: So sorry, that's what it's going to be today, folks.

1314
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: So at the beginning of the movie, there's a bad

1315
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 1: car accident on Moholland Drive, which of course is like

1316
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:23,000
Speaker 1: a very famous windy, twisty road on the mountain above Hollywood. Right,

1317
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: So there's a woman who was played by Laura Elena

1318
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: Herring who walks away from the accident with this head injury,

1319
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 1: and she kind of basically walks down the side of

1320
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 1: the mountain and then she kind of walks into this

1321
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: random apartment complex and sneaks into an apartment where this

1322
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: older woman is about to leave town. She's got like

1323
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 1: her suitcases and the taxi cab is waiting for her

1324
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: and everything. So right after this, and that's like the

1325
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: very beginning of the film, this perky blonde named Betty Elms,

1326
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: who was played by Naomi Watts, she arrives at La

1327
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: and she is truly the picture of the innocent starlett

1328
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: who's just moved to La right, like she is like

1329
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: from a nineteen fifties film. She's just like, oh my god,

1330
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: she's talking to people on the airplane. She can't be

1331
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:22,599
Speaker 1: more excited. She's like, you know, everything is wonderful and great, right,

1332
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: and you know, eventually she makes her way to this

1333
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 1: same apartment complex where the woman from the beginning showed up.

1334
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 1: Turns out that the woman who is leaving town, the

1335
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: woman whose apartment is is Betty's aunt, okay, and the

1336
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 1: building manager is named Coco, and she's played by Ann Miller,

1337
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: the very famous classic dancer and actress Anne Miller, And

1338
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 1: she gets Betty set up in the apartment, and then

1339
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: Betty soon discovers the woman from the accident is hiding there, okay.

1340
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: And the woman who cannot remember anything, she can't remember

1341
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:03,799
Speaker 1: who she is, she can't remember her she can't remember

1342
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: her name, but that she looks at a poster on

1343
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: the wall and it's the movie Gilda starring Rita Hayworth,

1344
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: So she just calls herself Rita. Okay. So that's the

1345
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: setup for the for that kind of slice of the film.

1346
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, there's a story about this Hollywood director named

1347
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 1: Adam who was played by Danielle's best friend Justin Threw

1348
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: He in the film. He is casting for the lead

1349
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: actress for this film that he's making, and he's sort

1350
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: of in this room full of like weird business guys,

1351
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 1: including Dan hydea I have to mention, and they ultimately

1352
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 1: are all trying to force him to hire this woman

1353
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: as the actress in his film named Camillo Rhodes, and

1354
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: he really balks at this idea, and as it turns out,

1355
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 1: that's very bad for him because the men are essentially

1356
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,799
Speaker 1: powerful and they just control his destiny, right.

1357
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:08,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then being a life ruining decision.

1358
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: Yes, And there's it's interesting because, first of all, if

1359
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 1: you've ever seen the original Twin Peaks, the Man from

1360
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: Another Place, Michael Anderson is playing this like Hollywood kind

1361
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: of god type figure that's controlling everything from this weird room.

1362
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:32,840
Speaker 1: You know, Lynch loves a weird carpeted, curtained.

1363
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 2: Room, loves somebody lurking in the background of that room.

1364
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, loves a weird dude in a chair that's like

1365
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: the center of the universe kind of character. And you know,

1366
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 1: basically this, you know, it's suggesting that, you know that

1367
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: Hollywood is very powerful and filled with like all these

1368
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: people that control the lives of other people. We'll talk

1369
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: about that just a moment, okay. But Adam is fucked

1370
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:01,840
Speaker 1: because he does want to agree to this, and so

1371
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,719
Speaker 1: the film is cutting back and forth between Adam's situation

1372
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: and then sort of the mystery that's unfolding about who

1373
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: Rita is, and Benny is kind of doing everything she

1374
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: can to help her. She's like a good girl scout.

1375
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: She's like, let's go find you know, maybe you used

1376
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: to live here. Let's go call the police station to

1377
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: find out if there was an accident on Wall Holland Drive.

1378
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 1: And they also find that Rita is carrying a purse

1379
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: and it's filled with cash, and also this kind of

1380
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: weird blue key and they don't really know much about it.

1381
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, Also, how would you react somebody you go into

1382
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 2: an apartment like you're in an airbnb situation or friends

1383
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 2: letting you use their apartment and there's somebody else in it?

1384
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 2: How do you respond? Are you helping them through their amnesia?

1385
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 2: Or are you running away?

1386
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: No? I've seen Barbarian Okay, No, Like much like in

1387
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: that movie. If somebody shows up to a place that

1388
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be staying at, I'm leaving in getting

1389
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: another place.

1390
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 2: Life beautiful, period, That's what I thought. I just want

1391
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 2: to double check because.

1392
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 1: What about you are you telling me?

1393
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 2: Are you saying, oh, I'm like good luck with your

1394
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 2: fucking amnesia, you won't remember me walking out the door

1395
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,719
Speaker 2: as I go to find somewhere else to stay.

1396
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: Yes, like great, Yeah, I don't know if that I don't.

1397
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 1: We have a lot of Canadian listeners, so I don't

1398
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:25,799
Speaker 1: want to offend you, But like, is this a Canadian

1399
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,640
Speaker 1: thing that you're just willing to help a stranger in

1400
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: a in an LA apartment to this end?

1401
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,760
Speaker 2: Or is that David Lynch's interpretation of Canadians Because they

1402
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,360
Speaker 2: are very nice. I've been all over Canada and I

1403
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 2: will say the nicest fucking people. That's not a trope

1404
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: for nothing. It's not a stereotype for nothing. But I

1405
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:47,719
Speaker 2: also think they have a lot of common sense.

1406
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, see, I think that too. But you know, I

1407
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: just wanted to ask, just wanted to make sure.

1408
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 2: Canadian listeners tell us if you would help this amnesiac

1409
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 2: if they were in your apart.

1410
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, having never been to this, to this city before, right,

1411
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 1: how far would you take it? Canadians? Let us know.

1412
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: I saw what you did pot at gmail dot com.

1413
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 1: So while she's helping Rita out right, Betty also goes

1414
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 1: on an audition for an acting role because duh, that's

1415
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:21,839
Speaker 1: why she's in LA. And this scene is totally insane

1416
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: to me, Like I've seen this movie many times, and

1417
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: I still fucking shook by this hilariously creepy old man

1418
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:32,680
Speaker 1: that she has to be in the scene with.

1419
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 2: Uh, it's so gross. It's so gross. It's just a

1420
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 2: room full of like old men and a couple of

1421
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 2: women who are beholden to like just kind of be

1422
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 2: in there where you know, they don't want to be there,

1423
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 2: and it's just they're so excited to be like she

1424
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: kissed you.

1425
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like creepy. What I kept in that

1426
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: moment thinking what does this guy's breath smell?

1427
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 2: Like? Oh, banaka and garlic.

1428
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was just a musso's having a having a

1429
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: prime rib special and he's just like, you know, got.

1430
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:14,759
Speaker 2: His mouth his teeth driver mouth, broccoli and cream.

1431
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was like, oh my god. But she really

1432
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: fucking goes for it in a way that is so

1433
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: impressive that she she basically gets brought immediately across the street.

1434
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: Was like, hey, you gotta be in you ought to

1435
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: be in pictures, lady. Let's bring you across the street

1436
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 1: so you can meet this director. And as it turns out,

1437
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: the director is Adam and he's shooting his film right,

1438
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: So that's the setup for this next scene. Which is

1439
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,519
Speaker 1: again like Betty and Rita kind of like trying to

1440
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: figure out the mystery of Rita. Rita ultimately recalls the

1441
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:58,799
Speaker 1: name of this woman and the name is Diane Selwyn. Okay,

1442
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:05,720
Speaker 1: and there their intent on trying to find Diane, and

1443
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 1: as it turns out, they go to her her apartment.

1444
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: Uh And as it turns out, she has been dead

1445
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:17,240
Speaker 1: in her apartment for several days, and it's, you know,

1446
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,800
Speaker 1: an utter shock to both Betty and Rita. Of course. Meanwhile,

1447
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: Betty and Rita getting closer together. They're working real, real closely.

1448
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: They formed a they were fast friends. Betty, you know,

1449
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,639
Speaker 1: is very excited to be in La. She's probably never

1450
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: seen a woman as glamorous as Rita, you know, you

1451
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:46,440
Speaker 1: got to think. And at some point their their closeness

1452
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: turns romantic slash sexual and they kind of consummate this relationship.

1453
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: Uh and and Betty yeah, and Betty kind of reveals

1454
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,200
Speaker 1: that she's in love with Rita, which is very interesting.

1455
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 2: One thing I love about that scene is Betty asks Rita,

1456
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 2: have you ever done this before? And Rita is like,

1457
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:15,599
Speaker 2: I don't know. I literally don't know.

1458
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 1: I don't know who I am, so I can't even

1459
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: answer that question for you, girl. That is a really

1460
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: funny moment actually, but it's it's but it's very interesting.

1461
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's obviously very tender. But then it

1462
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 1: is sort of like, okay, well, now what's happening with

1463
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: these two? And so I'm going to move through a

1464
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: lot of of of scenes and sort of thing. But anyway,

1465
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 1: they end up at this stater called Club Celencio to

1466
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 1: watch this woman saying Rebecca del Rio if you don't know.

1467
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: And it's at this part of the film where Betty

1468
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 1: and Rita find this like small blue box that matches

1469
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: the blue key that was in Rita's back. So it's

1470
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 1: at this point of the movie that's the portal, I think,

1471
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 1: and I'm just calling it that for lack of a

1472
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: better term. But then what happens is from this point on,

1473
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: the timeline is altered for the rest of the film.

1474
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 1: And this is probably gonna be a spoiler maybe, so

1475
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: if you don't want to hear about the rest of it,

1476
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: I just don't know how else to talk about it

1477
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,839
Speaker 1: without saying it. So anyway, for the rest of the film,

1478
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: essentially Betty and Rita almost kind of become opposite versions

1479
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 1: of themselves and they have different names. So Betty becomes

1480
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 1: Diane Selwyn and then Rita becomes Camilla Rhodes, and it's

1481
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: just this very interesting switch where instead of Betty being

1482
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: the kind of bright eyed, bushy tailed, like you perky blonde,

1483
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: now she is the almost complete opposite. She is a

1484
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: struggling actor, she's down on her love. Uh, she's completely

1485
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 1: obsessed with Rita, who is now Camilla. Kamila is successful,

1486
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 1: Kamilla is dating Adam, and so it becomes this kind

1487
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: of like weird moment where they're just personality is just

1488
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 1: sort of change, and the story is kind of moves

1489
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:19,639
Speaker 1: on from there.

1490
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 2: It feels to me like like a Russian nesting doll

1491
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 2: of a story, Yeah, because it feels like, oh, well,

1492
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 2: Diane was real, but she was imagining the story of

1493
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 2: Betty and Rita. Yeah, so I kind of love that, like, oh,

1494
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 2: we're in a whole different space. Things have shifted, like

1495
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 2: you were saying, yeah, but now Diane is real and

1496
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 2: wasn't just imagining that Betty Camilla Like she was kind

1497
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 2: of infusing that that Betty Rita's situation with her own

1498
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 2: thoughts and desires.

1499
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:52,639
Speaker 1: Yes, and so this is I think the analysis part

1500
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: that I feel like is probably what I meant about

1501
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 1: processing the shit out of this movie, because there's a

1502
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: lot of take what this movie is about. I think

1503
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,679
Speaker 1: it's open ended, obviously for multiple reasons, you know, probably

1504
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 1: intentional knowing David Lynch, but also maybe you know, because

1505
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 1: the movie started as a TV show and that ended

1506
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: as film. I've read through a lot of different perspectives

1507
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 1: on what this film means and what the characters mean,

1508
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. I mean to me, this

1509
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: movie reminds me a lot of movies like Three Women

1510
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 1: by Robert Altman and Persona, the Bergman movie, which I

1511
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 1: think we've talked about on this podcast before. Like this

1512
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 1: is like another movie like those movies that are about

1513
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: like intense relationships between women where the line between kind

1514
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: of admiration and romance and like identity, to be honest,

1515
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 1: becomes very blurry, right yeah. And I think that when

1516
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: you put that into the context of what of where

1517
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:08,160
Speaker 1: this movie takes place, meaning it's inside the Hollywood industry, right,

1518
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 1: which you know, at a base level, Hollywood is fueled,

1519
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, by the desire to be other people, I mean,

1520
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: like actors literally take on other people's personalities when they work.

1521
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 1: So I think, to me, I think this movie is

1522
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: sort of about Hollywood. It's my interpretation of it. And

1523
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: again there's many is that this is talking about this

1524
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: like like underbelly of Hollywood, right, because Lynch, I think,

1525
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,920
Speaker 1: has a lot of movies where he talks about kind

1526
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 1: of dark underbellies of these kind of very I don't know,

1527
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: pure like American idealized lives like blue velvet, twin peaks,

1528
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 1: like Walleted Heart right, and Hollywood is is you know,

1529
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 1: the ultimate American myth in a lot of ways. And

1530
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like references to old Hollywood, like

1531
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: you know, Betty at one point on her audition she

1532
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:12,960
Speaker 1: kind of wears this like gray tippy hedron suit to

1533
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 1: kiss the old guy, and you know, you've got references

1534
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,600
Speaker 1: to Gilda and you know obviously Ann Miller being a

1535
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: classic Hollywood star. So I don't know, I mean, I think,

1536
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 1: like I said, I think, to me, this is like

1537
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: kind of an exploration about Hollywood and sort of how

1538
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: the idea of like that dream, that Hollywood dream that

1539
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people have when they come to La right.

1540
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you've experienced it living there, you know, and

1541
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,479
Speaker 1: that sort of thing where it's like who they show

1542
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 1: up as and then like who they can become after

1543
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: the business kind of has their way with them, right, right,

1544
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 1: Like you show up as a Betty and then you

1545
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 1: might end up like a.

1546
01:28:54,320 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 2: Diane, right, get John Cougar Mellencamp to write a new song.

1547
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: Or alternately, you could be a Riata and then be

1548
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:09,439
Speaker 1: a Camilla. Right, You're just sort of like, you know,

1549
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 1: you never know. And then I think the Adam part

1550
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 1: of it, to me, Adam just represents like that corporate

1551
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: takeover of creative work, right, that is also a very

1552
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 1: Hollywood thing too, right, And it's sort of that sort

1553
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: of also drives this like alt timeline in a way.

1554
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: It's like that shadow government that's controlling the dreams of

1555
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, the stardom and the success and the ambition.

1556
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 1: And that is my very like lazy person's take on

1557
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: what I think this movie is about. But again, I

1558
01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 1: think it's very open, very open to interpretation.

1559
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that's lazy at all. I think

1560
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 2: that the I think you're I think your thought process

1561
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 2: on this film is really quite on point, and it does. Again,

1562
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 2: I think it's it's in service to the story that

1563
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 2: it's told in a not linear way or possibly in

1564
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 2: not even real way, like we might not even be

1565
01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 2: talking about real life, but it's all in service to

1566
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 2: the story in a way that makes complete sense at

1567
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 2: the end, which is a miracle considering it's David Lynch,

1568
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 2: because he could have just left us all fucking hanging.

1569
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:20,879
Speaker 1: He's done it before, right, he has done it before.

1570
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:23,880
Speaker 2: But I think that the telling of the story in

1571
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 2: this way made made it more interesting to me.

1572
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: Honestly, Yeah, I think so too, And like, but there's

1573
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 1: also kind of like I've read kind of interpretations of it,

1574
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:37,799
Speaker 1: you know, being that it's a you know, a romance

1575
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 1: between two women and you know sort of like exploring

1576
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: that kind of queer narrative that's happening in the film.

1577
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:49,600
Speaker 1: I know, I've read stories about again like that perspective

1578
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 1: of like was the beginning of the film real or like,

1579
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, how does what's real and what's fake? Like,

1580
01:30:57,520 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 1: you know, whose perspective from the film are we actually

1581
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 1: say this from? And I actually, I mean it's such

1582
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 1: a rich text, as we love on this podcast, that

1583
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: I kind of love reading what other people think of it.

1584
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: To be honest.

1585
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, also got that noir angle, right.

1586
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:15,320
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and that's that's again a very kind of

1587
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 1: Hollywood construct, that noir. You know, the thriller aspect of

1588
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 1: the film too, because I gotta say, speaking of thriller,

1589
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 1: there's this moment of the film where I absolutely jump

1590
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: out of my seats every time when I've seen this

1591
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 1: movie like four or five times, and I know what's coming,

1592
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: and I actually have to turn down the volume of

1593
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: it on my TV because I can't take it.

1594
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 2: I am right there with you. I'm like, let me

1595
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 2: look away, I know what's coming. Yeah, I can't handle

1596
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:49,720
Speaker 2: it well.

1597
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,639
Speaker 1: And like and of course I think we're talking about

1598
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:56,679
Speaker 1: the very scary dude in the back of the diner

1599
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: basically winkies like it's when it when it happens, I

1600
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: just like, shit my pants. Basically it's so terrifying. And

1601
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:10,599
Speaker 1: I've thought about this person too in that in that

1602
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,559
Speaker 1: kind of you know, in my analysis where I'm like,

1603
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 1: because they think that this this character is seen as

1604
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 1: an evil force at a certain point in this movie,

1605
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:28,439
Speaker 1: and I'm like, is that a personification of what the

1606
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:30,880
Speaker 1: worst thing that can happen to you? In la which

1607
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:33,719
Speaker 1: is just like you're covered in soot hanging out behind

1608
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:38,000
Speaker 1: a dumpster, and Winky is like, that's like, you don't

1609
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 1: that's evil. That's actually evil in the construct of Hollywood.

1610
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 2: That unhoused is evil.

1611
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 1: I mean maybe. I mean if you think about it

1612
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:54,000
Speaker 1: in terms of like what Hollywood presents as success and

1613
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 1: what it presents as failure, you know what I mean.

1614
01:32:57,439 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I read it interpretation of it that

1615
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 2: was like, oh that that being behind Winkies is a

1616
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 2: visual manifestation of Betty slash Diane's anger or her kind

1617
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 2: of emotional state. Wow, that brings us to the point

1618
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:24,000
Speaker 2: of the end of the film that we're not going

1619
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:26,760
Speaker 2: to ruin. But I thought that was kind of an

1620
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 2: interesting thing that I'd never thought of before.

1621
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh yeah, that's again. I mean you could really

1622
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: there's so many roads you could go down with this film.

1623
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean really, and also too, I have to say,

1624
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: there are like moments of really funny things that happen. Yeah.

1625
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 1: I always laugh about the stupid hit man who like

1626
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:53,960
Speaker 1: can't stop fucking shut up.

1627
01:33:55,800 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 2: It is the funniest fucking scene. The man cannot stop

1628
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 2: shooting people.

1629
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: I know, it's like he just can't get it. Right,

1630
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:07,840
Speaker 1: and he just he's just he meant to do one

1631
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 1: thing and then he just ruined everything. It's just so

1632
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:15,080
Speaker 1: which I also think too like those moments, because there's

1633
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: also another scene that I love, I mean, and it's

1634
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 1: quite frankly, the Billy ray Cyrus scene, Like I'm just like, yes,

1635
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 1: I always forget that Billy ray Cyrus is in this movie.

1636
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 1: He plays the pool guy that Adam's wife is having

1637
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:32,719
Speaker 1: an affair with. And for some reason, both the stupid

1638
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: hitman and the and the weird pool guy are also

1639
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 1: they seem like La personalities and I can't explain why.

1640
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:44,080
Speaker 1: I get it.

1641
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 2: I get it.

1642
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I mean, yeah, I I My

1643
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:52,639
Speaker 1: take is that this movie is about Hollywood. It's about

1644
01:34:52,760 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 1: LA It's about you know, identity, wanting success, wanting to

1645
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 1: to be something you're not. And yeah, and I also

1646
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 1: love this the part where those people are lip syncing

1647
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 1: to Connie Stevens sixteen Reasons. So that's that's it for me.

1648
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I think between both of these films,

1649
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: we did a lot of think in this week, which

1650
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: I love.

1651
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 2: Brains are fresh, Brains are fresh. Yeah, this is great.

1652
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:33,640
Speaker 2: I really love digging into both of these movies. I

1653
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 2: just yeah, I just really, I mean, I like that

1654
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 2: we both were looking at two films that have that

1655
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 2: are very rich texts that we could dig into so much.

1656
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:45,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I appreciate you bringing this theme to the pod.

1657
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 1: It was a good chance to see the movies again.

1658
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 1: It was great.

1659
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 2: Have you seen the Ghost of John? Start?

1660
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:56,200
Speaker 1: Do you think this on Spotify? Should I get that

1661
01:35:56,240 --> 01:36:01,720
Speaker 1: on Spotify? Add that to.

1662
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 2: Your DJ playlist? People will be like, what the shit?

1663
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:08,720
Speaker 1: If I can find a way to work in have

1664
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,960
Speaker 1: you seen a Ghost of John? In my next DJ set?

1665
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,639
Speaker 1: I will have lived life to the fullest.

1666
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 2: You can retire. You can retire.

1667
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well listen. If you want to email us, we

1668
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:21,679
Speaker 1: are at A Saw You Did Pod at gmail dot com.

1669
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:27,320
Speaker 1: Send us short questions for the bonus episodes. Please. We

1670
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 1: also have a peel box if you want to send

1671
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:30,680
Speaker 1: us handwrit the letters.

1672
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 2: And you can find that address on the link tree

1673
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:37,719
Speaker 2: section of our social media. You can find our socials

1674
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 2: at I Saw Pod, on Instagram, Blue Sky, and Twitter.

1675
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:43,840
Speaker 2: And you can also now leave us a voicemail. To

1676
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 2: play on the show, all you have to do is

1677
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 2: record a sixty second voice memo on your phone and

1678
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:52,400
Speaker 2: email it to I Saw what you did pod at

1679
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 2: gmail dot com. And yes, we are serious about the

1680
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 2: sixty seconds.

1681
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah serious. We also have merch If you go to

1682
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 1: exactly whitestore dot com you can find our give Me

1683
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 1: the b of the D T shirt and Crew Nick sweatshirts.

1684
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,519
Speaker 2: And you know we have bonus episodes dropping on the

1685
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 2: main feed every third Thursday of the month.

1686
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:21,759
Speaker 1: That's right, Danielle. Would you like to tell the folks

1687
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 1: what the movies are for next episode?

1688
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:29,480
Speaker 2: I can't wait. The movies for next week are Christine

1689
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:33,559
Speaker 2: from twenty sixteen and Catch Me if you can from

1690
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 2: two thousand and two.

1691
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 1: I have to say, somebody in our comments maybe was like,

1692
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:41,880
Speaker 1: what's up with Millie picking all these movies from the

1693
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 1: two thousands? And I was really yeah, And I was like, yeah,

1694
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:48,559
Speaker 1: I guess I have been.

1695
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:51,519
Speaker 2: Well, also, some of these movies might be from the

1696
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 2: two thousands, but they're still over twenty years old.

1697
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it's because they they know that

1698
01:37:57,360 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't know movies from the two thousands and early right,

1699
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 1: They were like what, oh, yeah, like apparently I did

1700
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:09,720
Speaker 1: see a movie past y two k. So anyway, I

1701
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:12,200
Speaker 1: can't wait for next week. It's gonna be fun. It's

1702
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: gonna be great.

1703
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for doing this.

1704
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 1: As always a fucking pleasure doing this podcast with you.

1705
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 2: Bye. This has been an exactly right production. Produced by

1706
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 2: Casey O'Brien, Episode mixing and theme music by Tom Bryfogel,

1707
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:38,639
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart, Karenkile, Garreff,

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Speaker 2: and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram and

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Speaker 2: Twitter at I Saw pod, and you can email us

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Speaker 2: at I Saw What You Did Pod at gmail